The Athletic Hockey Show - Which NHL teams improved the most this offseason?

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

As the NHL offseason rolls along, Laz and Jesse take a look at Dom Luszczyszyn’s article ranking how much each franchise has improved, or declined, this summer. Before that, the guys talk about Yegor Chinakhov’s trade request out of Columbus and the power dynamic in the league shifting more towards the players than in years past. Plus, who could be the next (or first) 50-goal scorer for your favorite team?Hosts: Mark Lazerus and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hello and welcome to the athletic hockey show. I am Mark Lazarus, joined by the guru of goaltending Jesse Granger. Jesse, how is it in Vegas right now? Beautiful. Beautiful, nice, like I told you, the little cool breeze coming through. We've got a cold front. I think it's 105 today.

It's just absolutely awful. I do not understand how anyone, like I love going there in like February or like November, but I do not understand how people live in Phoenix, live in Vegas, live in some of these desert cities in the summer. I don't know how you do it. You golfed with me last summer, right? Right before the draft, wasn't it like 110 that day? Yeah, I almost died.

I just, I almost collapsed and just, you know, completely roll down the side of a mountain into the strip. Yeah, it's, I like the heat. I don't mind it, but I understand why other people that are not used to this heat do not like it. All right, well, on today's show, we're going to talk about which teams have improved the most and which teams have gotten the worst this offseason. We're going to talk about the most recent 50 goals scores from each team,

but we're going to start in an unusual place. We're going to start with Columbus. Because Yeager Chinikov, first round pick a few years back, 24-year-old winger, lots of talent, hasn't really met his ceiling yet. He wants out of Columbus. This is a story we've heard many times before, unfortunately, out of Columbus. But this one seems a little bit different.

According to his agent Shumi Babayev, it's the coach. It's not the team. This is direct quote. He says, I don't see any way that he comes back. Chinikov is comfortable with this team. He's comfortable with this city, but he's not comfortable with this coach.

It's all about the coach. Dean Everson, Yeager Chinikov, irreconcilable differences. What do you make of all this? Yeah, it's interesting. So for those that weren't paying super close attention to the Columbus Blue Jacket storylines last season, Dean Eveson, and this is from the agent also, he started the season on the first line, Cheneikov did. And he was playing relatively well.

He wasn't scoring a ton of goals, but he was playing all right up there. And then all of a sudden, Dean Eveson moves him. down to the third line. And according to the agent does not tell, there's no communication between the coach and the player on why he was moved to the third line. He played a little bit on the third line. He gets injured. He had an injury in back injury in late November. Doesn't come back until March. And then when he got back in March, he was a healthy scratch by Yveson for most of the final month of the season. So this is a player. He only had seven goals and eight assists last year. He did score 16 the year before that. Like you said, he's got a lot of potential, but it's,

there's clearly, whether it's personality-wise, whether it's, he's not getting back on defense, there is clearly an issue between the player and the coach. I don't know. I think this is a player who hasn't proven he's a great player in the NHL or even a good player in the NHL, but obviously there's potential there. And if he and the coach aren't going to get along, it seems like an opportunity for another team to be able to get a decent prospect for cheaper than you would normally be able to acquire a player like this. Yeah, you know, I mean, before he had the back injury last year, he had seven goals and seven assists in 21 games.

He was producing. I mean, not, you know, at a huge level, but he was top six producing. And when he comes back from the back injury, it was just a different story. We've seen this before where a guy loses his job due to injury and, you know, resents the coach as a result. Everson clearly didn't like what he saw. I think that he released a quote saying, you know, the lines of communication are open. Chinochols' camp begs to differ.

It sure seems like he's not coming back. And I don't, he's 24 years old. He's kind of past the point of being a prospect. This is an NHL player. The question is, is he a good NHL player? Or is he just a serviceable NHL player? He's a bottom six guy on a good team, probably. This is not a top six guy.

And Aaron Portsline, our terrific Blue Jackets reporter, made a great point. Where's he going to get a better opportunity than Columbus? Columbus desperately needs top six wingers. and Chinikov desperately wants to play top six minutes, there are very few teams out there where he would immediately slot in at a top six wing, except for Columbus.

So I'm not sure, I mean, do you see any way that this rift heals that they can talk themselves down from the ledges here and find a way to make this work? I mean, not as long as Dean Eveson's the coach, right? Like it sure feels like this is not a good relationship on the bench if both of these two return. It seemed, and it's an interesting dynamic,

that we're seeing in the NHL in terms of, I feel like when you compare it to the other four major pro sports in America, the NHL, the players have had the least amount of say. Like the NBA is the other opposite side of the spectrum where the NBA, the players are running the show. Like you regularly see NBA players telling the team, you will do this or I will leave their can, they are running the show.

In the NHL, we don't see anything close to that. It sure seems like we're seeing a shift towards that direction over the the last few years, and this is yet another player who's trying to use leverage. And he doesn't even have that much leverage. Usually you're seeing it out of like pending UFAs that will do stuff like this. I'll only sign a deal with XXX teams. So they're the only teams you can trade me to type of thing. But we're starting to see players try to use more leverage. And it's super interesting. I don't know how this is going to play out if they try to keep both Eveson and Chinikov. But it feels like there's a bit of momentum, a wave of momentum for the players trying to have a little more say in their outcomes.

Yeah, you're right. I mean, usually we do see this with star players. We saw Patrick Kane basically force his way to New York. We saw Claude Jureux force his way to, what was it, Ottawa. We saw Brad Marchand forces way to Florida, basically, and say, like, if you're going to trade me, it's going to be to here. We even saw that with Seth Jones this year to Florida. This is, more and more, we talk about this with free agency every year, right? If players just stop signing eight-year contracts, they'd have a lot more say in where they can go. If they sign two or three-year deals, again, like they do in the NBA, that's the closest comp we have is the NBA because of the structure of the season and the structure of the sport. But in the NBA, of course, you know, one

player can turn a team from a also-ran into a contender. NHL, it's not like that. You put Connor McDavid on the San Jose Sharks this year. San Jose Sharks are not going to be Stanley Cup contenders. It just doesn't work the way it does with like LeBron James. So I don't know if we're going to see this more and more often. this is maybe an outlier, but I'd like to see this more. I know it's not the most, you know, commonly held opinion because players want to be able to keep, our fans want to be able to keep their players in their city. But, you know, I'm in favor of the players here against the billionaires,

obviously, you want to see the players have more control over their lives. You want to see them control their fate a little bit more. But Yacar Chinochok, I don't know if he's the test case for this. He's not good enough. He's not prominent enough. And this just seems like another bummer for a Columbus fan base. That has seen Artemey Panarin say he doesn't want to be here. That has seen Patrick Linae say he doesn't want to be here.

And it's, you know, obviously Johnny Goddrow picking Columbus was such a watershed moment for that franchise. But more often than not, we see guys kind of trying to get out. And whether the agent says it's because it's the city or not the city, it's just another bummer for a fan base that's just star for something good. It really is. It's, and like you said, this situation might be a little different. It seems more like a rift with the coach. but it has been a major trend over the last five, six years.

We see a lot of players not wanting to stay in Columbus. I don't get it. I, like, I've been to the arena. I love the area around the arena. I'm not going to sit here and pretend like Columbus is like a destination city to go to, but I feel like there are plenty of other cities in the NHL that are on that same kind of level. I'm very confused by why no one wants to be in Columbus.

Like, it's very strange to me. I like the arena. I like the setup. It's the team hasn't been successful. Maybe that. is part of it. But how is the team going to be successful if nobody wants to stay there? It's a catch-22 for the franchise. It is. It is. Another thing that I will say about, you mentioned, like, I want to be on the player's side. And we're kind of using Chinikov as a jumping

off point. He's obviously not the right person to kind of take this stance, like you said. I like the players having more control and maybe taking some shorter deals and being able to have a little more say, especially with the rising cap, because I think we're going to see owners set their own internal salary caps. Now, there's a handful of teams that their owners are going to spend to the limit. It's the teams you can think of. They're all at the top of the salary cap. But there are, there are going to be owners, especially when this cap goes up over the next few years, it's going to have major jumps. You're going to see teams employ their own salary cap of this is what the owner is willing to spend. And I don't like that. I think it's bad for the sport. And I think that if you

have star players on short deals, being able to hold the owner to the fire a little bit, say you have to try to win or I'm going to leave. I think that's always obviously good for the sport if more teams are trying to win. So I think with the cap going up, having star players have a little more say is very important for especially the smaller market teams with owners that aren't willing to spend every dollar that they can. Well, that's just it. I mean, the NHL has bragged about its parody for so long.

That parity is kind of artificial because of the salary cap, but it works. It has made a more competitive league. But the higher that cap goes, and you're right, there are going to be teams. is like, I'm not spending $115 million. Screw that. And then you're going to start having more Pittsburgh Pirates

and fewer Los Angeles Dodgers teams out there. And that's going to affect the parody that we have. But yeah, you know, if this was a star player, if this was a bigger name, if this was a player with real leverage,

it'd be fascinating to watch a player call out his coach and force the team basically to pick, hey, me or him. Because we have seen teams fire coaches for less than this. I mean, Pete DeBoard just got fired because of his...

situation with Jake Ottinger. Like, right? Like that literally the last firing we saw. And that's a, that's a, I don't know if Pete DeBore's a Hall of Fame coach, but he's a hell of a hockey coach. And they fired him. By all accounts, it seems that Jake Ottinger situation had a lot to do with it. So we've seen it. Yeah, but Jake Ottinger didn't come out and say, I will not play for this guy.

He didn't go talk to the press and say, I will not play for this man. Right. He downplayed it, if anything. But I think, obviously, obviously the Ottinger Rift had something to do with that firing. went to the conference final three straight years. But I'd like to see that. The kind of like the person in me who wants to watch the world burn wants to see a Connor McDavid level players say,

like obviously this isn't happening in Emmett, but to say, you know what, I'm not playing for Knoblock anymore. It's just me or him because a star player is going to win that battle nine times out of ten. Yeah, I mean, the thing about like the way that coaches are recycled in the NHL, it's easier to replace a coach that it is to replace a star player. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting. Like you said, Chinochokov is not that player. A little strange to see a guy with seven goals last year demanding a trade.

But we see these all the time, these change of scenery trades. And maybe it's just time for Chinochov to get a change of scenery trade. And maybe it'll make him a better player. But if you're out there, if you're one of these fan bases who's thinking, because I can't help myself, I'll poke my head in on the Reddit or some of the forums and stuff like that. And you see like, oh, this is the guy. We got to get him. You should give up a first round pick for him.

This is the top six winger we need. It's like, is he? Because he has not shown that he's 24 years old, which is, you know, almost past your prime as a forward these days in the NHL. And he has not proven it yet. He's a 21st overall pick in 2020. We are now in 2025-26 season.

I'm not sure this is the guy that's going to save your franchise. All right, we're going to take quick break there. We're going to come back and talk about which teams have improved the most this offseason and which teams we are most skeptical. All right, we're back. And Dom had a really interesting story last.

week where he used his model to say which teams improved the most and which teams, you know, declined the most this offseason. And some of the names on there kind of surprised me. Let's start with which team improved the most. It shouldn't come as a surprise as the San Jose Sharks. Can't get much worse than they were last year, right? Their net rating added was plus 23, which is a monster number by, uh, or excuse me, was plus 26, which is a monster number by Dom's rating. They brought in Jeff Skinner, Adam Goddette, Philip Couragev, Demetri Orlov, John Klingberg, Nick Letty and Alex Nadelcovic. None of those names are that exciting to be. Dmitri Orlov is probably the best name there. Is this just improvement by default? Do we really

think San Jose got much better this offseason? I like what they did. And I agree with you that none of those names are going to come in and be like star players or core pieces. But I don't think they need that. Like they drafted the core pieces with Will Smith, Macklin Celebrini. Yarslav Ascarov, by all accounts, is going to be given the net this year to prove that he's the franchise guy. I like these additions as just solid veteran, like add-ons that can help these young kids along. Like to me, I don't think San Jose is going to contend for the playoffs this year. If they do, it'd be fun. I love that young core. Just their social media, the videos they post, I think if San Jose, if this core of young players end up being stars, they're going to be the most

fun team in the NHL. So I'm rooting for the sharks to be good. I don't think they're there yet. but I do think they need to take a step. Like I think that young players need to learn how to win. And I don't know if just letting these young players take, like get a year older without giving them some help. They might just keep losing and then you build bad habits. I like adding some veterans, especially on the defensive end. You mentioned Demetio Orlov, John Klingberg, Nicoletti. They're all three legitimate NHL defensemen that have played on good teams.

John Klingberg looked awesome in the playoffs this year. I know he's old. I know it was very short. but he moved the puck so well. I was blown away by how good he looked in the playoffs. So I like adding defensive help to a team that's already got some speed. It's got some young skill. Give them some veterans that can kind of help them along,

show them how to get through the losing streaks, show them how to be professionals. I don't know. I feel like this is just helping them take that next step, learning how to win a little bit. They're probably not going to make the playoffs, but I think maybe two years from now, the sharks could be a very good team.

I like adding around the periphery the way that they're, have. You know, it's funny. I'm in Chicago and I feel like I'm the ghost of Christmas future here for the San Jose. The vibes are so great in San Jose and everyone's so down on Chicago and I get it because they're San Jose still a year, they're like a year or two behind the Hawks on this curve here. And last summer, the Hawks went out and they added Alex Martinez and T.J. Brody. Hey, really actual NHL defensemen that can help the young defenseman along. And they went out and they got Pat Maroon and Craig Smith and Tevo Terra Vinen and Tyler Bertuzi, all these, to help the young to help Connor Bedard and Frank Nazar become better players.

And only Tavo panned out. Like, he's the only one of those that pan. T.J. Brody was a disaster. Alec Martinez was hurt. He was fine. But it doesn't always work that way. When you're doing this rebuild, it's so hard to get to that next level. Last year was the year the Hawks were, you know, Kyle Davidson was talking about taking a big step and becoming closer to contention.

And they took a, you know, basically a sideways step. And now this year they're going in. They didn't add anybody. They entered Andre Burakoski, and that's it. They're like, here, young guys, go nuts, let's see what happens. So the Hawks might even be worse this year than they were last year in the standings, even if they're more interesting and exciting. So it's just been funny for me, not funny, but like, it's been odd to watch how high

the vibes are in San Jose and how low the vibes seem to be in Chicago when they're basically the exact same team. They've got this superstar center that they're going to build around. They've got a lot of other pieces that are exciting, but they're so far off. and adding a couple of veteran defensemen, trust me, I've seen it. It doesn't work. You're not wrong.

It's so hard. I was just talking with Goldenites owner, Bill Foley, a couple weeks ago. And he mentioned, like he said at one point, he goes, we are never going to rebuild. And the way the Golden Knights have operated, they have followed that. They've stuck to that so far. It's only been eight years. But I do think they will eventually have to.

But the reason he said that is he's like, you look at these teams that strip it down to the bear. and start from the bottom. And they just never get out of that. Like it is so hard in the NHL. Like you mentioned, like you can't just add one player like in basketball or in football. You add a quarterback and boom,

the team goes from bad to good like instantly. It doesn't happen that way in hockey. It is so, so, so hard to break out of that rebuilding mode. And like you see like Buffalo, they've drafted some damn good players. They go everywhere else and win Stanley Cups. The Sabres have drafted good players. And yet they cannot break out.

of this rebuild mode that they've been in seemingly forever. It is so difficult to do. I'm not saying the sharks are going to do it, but I think that they've been given a better chance to do it this year. They've been given a better chance because of, like, Klingberg's my favorite one. Obviously, Orlov is a better player, but I just, I think Klingberg for the, for the price and, and there's no risk to it. I love a player that can move the puck up the ice quickly to get it into those talented forwards hands, maybe give them some better chances in transition to, to, to make some. plays. I don't know. It's, like I said, I don't think this team's going to be good. I will say Chicago's in a brutal division. I think the Pacific division is probably the softest in the

NHL. You've got, and we're going to talk about the ducks here in a second, but you can beat up on Anaheim, you can beat up on Seattle. There are some getable games out there for the sharks. I think it's easier for the sharks to take a step in wins than it is for the Blackhawks just because the division they play in. You're 100% correct. I mean, you got Dallas and Colorado and Winnipeg. Winnipeg in Minnesota and St. Louis. I mean, it's just, it's, it's hard to see a path forward. Those teams aren't going anywhere. But you're preaching to the choir with me with the rebuilds.

Like, I've been, I've been banging that drum for years and everyone calls me Debbie Downer for it. But rebuilds don't work in the NHL. Tear down rebuilds don't work. You can retool. You can go young. You cannot do what the Hawks did in 2022, which when they traded to Brinket, they let Dylan Strom walk. They traded Kirby Doc and they went all in on draft picks.

And they've got a ton of great prospects. Frank Nazar is going to be a star. absolute star. He might be better than Connor Bedard this year because Badard's, you know, got a longer learning curve and, you know, they got all these studs on the back end. And it still doesn't really amount to anything. The last team we've seen truly tear it down and rebuild was probably the Blackhawks, 25 years ago now, whatever it's been. And that wasn't even an intentional rebuild. That was just cheap ownership, right? So we've never really seen a team truly tear it down to the studs and come back from it. So I'm with you there. I love, I love Bill Fuller.

he's confidence. He's wrong. They will do a rebuild at some point. It will probably go badly because this is the cyclical world. Nobody thought Detroit was ever going to do this. Nobody thought Chicago was ever going to do this. Boston might be in that mode. Pittsburgh's been hanging on for dear life for how long now. They're going to have to do it eventually. It'll come for Vegas, but it's a really, really difficult process. I will say when you, and I don't know if they tore it down to the bare bones, but when you look for a team that built with good draft picks that that wasn't very good, and now all of a sudden is looking good, it's the next team on the list, Montreal Canadians.

They have drafted incredibly well. They have a bunch of super young players. And now they added some really good pieces this off season. Like, I love Zach, the trade for Zach Bolduk. I love trading for Noah Dobson. I think that this team is one of the most exciting teams heading into this next season. That's what I was going to ask you. Are they sneaky contenders now?

I mean, the east, you've got Florida Panthers up there. obviously. There's a lot of really good teams in the East. But I feel like the heavy weights are mostly in the West, especially for the regular season. We know Florida is going to be on cruise control all season long. So they're not really a team you worry about in the regular season. You worry about them in the playoffs. But can Montreal kind of climb the ladder here and become like an actual contender? Can they join, you know, the Tampa's and Toronto's of the world and be that kind of second tier contender after Florida? I mean, they looked, I was so impressed with them in the playoffs. Like that, that young group

with like obviously Nick Suzuki, who's been there for a while, but he's still pretty young. Cole Cofield, Yorice Slavkovsky. They and Ivan Demadov came in and looked immediately like a playmaker, like a difference maker. When the puck is on his stick, you notice. Like it is so obvious that this guy is a incredible playmaker, the moment he stepped on the ice. There's a lot to like about this team. I have been singing Sam Montembo's praises for a while. I think he's one of the most underrated goalies in the league.

he never gets talked about despite consistently putting up some of the best. Like, you look at the advanced analytics goals saved above expected. He is consistently in the top 10 every single year, despite playing behind a team that has not been very good defensively. Now, that's where they're going to have to improve if this team's going to be a legitimate contender and try to actually win some playoff series is they've got to be better defensively. They can't rely on San Montembo to bail them out the way he has over the last couple of years. They're going to score goals.

if they can have better structure. And they don't have to be a top five defensive team. They just have to be a top half defensive team. They've got good goaltending. They have young scores. I like this team's makeup a lot. Lane Hudson and Noah Dobson getting 25, 30 minutes each. It's tough to say your defense is going to be that great.

You're going to score a lot of goals. Right. Yeah. I mean, that is the thing. Both these players they added are they traded the top defensive prospect for old dude too. So they're definitely not trying to get better defensively, but maybe sometimes it's just like if you're a better team overall,

you're just going to have the puck more. Your defensive numbers are going to be better. Noah Dobson's an excellent addition to. He's still pretty young too. I think he's 24, maybe 25. And they've just got a really good core. Like if they, if all these players,

we've seen players look on a certain trajectory. I think of like the flyers, the pandemic year. Remember when they had the weird round robin set up in the, during the pandemic playoffs. And the Flyers won like, they were like the one seed because they won a couple games. And they were so young.

They had all these young players. And is Philadelphia going to be awesome for the next time? And here we are. They're terrible. They're like one of the worst. They're like in the one of the worst positions of any team in the league. So it doesn't always, you see a step.

It doesn't always necessarily get better and better and continue on that trajectory. But where they are right now, I like, I like what I've seen from Montreal. I think they have a chance to be a legitimate player. team. And if these young kids start figuring out how to win and believing, um, they've got all the talent to win a playoff series or two. Jeremy Colleton used to say all the time, progress isn't linear. And, uh, he was right, he wasn't right about a lot of things when he was Black Hawks head coach, but he was right about that one. Hawks are one of those teams that won the play in round two.

And, and, and they went up against Vegas and put up a fight. And yeah, there's a lot of mirages out there that you see. But I, I agree with you. I think this Montreal team is legit on the up and up. Number three on Tom's list is the Anaheim Ducks. You know, you bring in Chris Kreider and Mikhail Granland. Finally, some wingers for Leo Carlson and Mason McTavish. That top six is bolstered a lot. I know you love Lucas Dostal and Net. Peter Morazic is perfectly fine as a backup. He might not be as John Gibson, but he can give you minutes. Does Joel Quentville make enough of a difference that in that kind of crappy Pacific division that you were talking about, can the ducks be a sneaky playoff team. Yeah, I think a lot of the things I said about San Jose also apply to the Ducks in terms of,

I think giving Carlson and McTavish some wingers is so important. Like, those guys continue their development. Even if you don't necessarily win a bunch of games and make the playoffs, those guys have to play with good players in order to keep taking those steps to become better players themselves in the NHL. And I think that they have super bright future. So doing that is a great decision. Like I said, whether it translates to wins or not. I think Quinn is the wildcard here. If he comes in and brings structure to this team, because they have talent,

they just play the worst defense of any team I've ever seen in my life. It looks, when they're in the defensive zone, it looks like the other teams on the power play last year because they would sit in such a shell. It's not because, like, I'm not saying that because it looks like they only have four guys because they're bad.

It's the structure they play looks like a penalty kill. They put no pressure on you. They just let you pass the puck around. your players feel so good about their game because they're feeling the puck. There's no pressure on them. They're seeing all the passing lanes. I don't know. It was a disaster the way they played defense last year.

If Quinville can come in and just fix the structure of this team, I think that's a massive step in the right direction. Like you said, I believe in Lucas Dostal a lot. I think he has a chance to be an elite goalie in this league. So I think they have the pieces to maybe take a step. I don't necessarily predict that they're going to win a bunch of games, but I think that these moves will help their young players. get better. Let's leave aside the baggage that I have talked

until I'm blue in the face about when it comes to Joel Quenville. But I think he's one of the more fascinating figures. Oddly enough, it's him and Jonathan Taves. Those are the two guys that I'm most interested in seeing if they can kind of jump on the train while it's moving here. They've been out of the league for a number of years. And after Taves has been two years, Quenville, it's been three seasons he's missed. That's a long time. The league evolves very quickly in that time. And, you know, Quenville was one of the innovators. He helped usher in the modern style of hockey, this speed and skill-based game back in the early 2010s and the cycling and the puck possession. That's Joel Quenville as much as anybody else in the league has

brought that to it. But the game has changed beyond that now and it's been a few years and he hasn't been coaching hockey at all. He's been completely on the outside looking in. Is what worked for him and the Florida Panthers three or four years ago going to work in the NHL now? I don't know because we're watching it. We're the frog in the pot slowly being boiled. He's going to jump in and see a completely different game. It's like when I would, when I had a, when I'd be on the road and my daughter was a baby, I'd come home from like a four day road trip and the kid had completely changed. Completely different child. My wife didn't notice it, but I saw it because it had been a while. And I feel like that's what Joel Quenville is going to notice and how he adapts to that, how he handles that, how his way of thinking translates into the modern NHL. Will it still work? I have absolutely no idea, but it's going to be fascinating to watch the Sandheim team. It is. It's going to be great. I hope they don't break Lucas Stostall the way they broke John Gibson in the last few years. You're always so worried about the goalies mental states. Play some defense.

Play some defense. This guy is a stud. Just give him a chance. Well, I'll tell you, Peter Morazick will be fine behind no defense because he's been doing that for a number of years in Chicago now. He's good backup. That's like he is such a solid backup. You don't have to work. The starter never has to look over his shoulder and worry about him taking his job.

He's just going to play his backup minutes. He's going to play him. And like you said, he's used. used to playing behind a sieve of a defense. So he'll fit right in. All right. Some other interesting ones from Dom's list. I liked how Buffalo improved despite the Petrka trade. And Utah fell the fifth most of any team despite the Paturka trade. I think J.J. Petrka is a pretty good player. Apparently the model thinks otherwise. Yeah, it's super interesting. And like you look at the names that Utah lost. And it's not like,

like they added Peturca. And, but I mean, they lost Machelli. Joan, Bukstad, Kessler, like, they didn't lose any top players. It's, this one is a mystery to me. I typically think that Dom's models match my eye test, match what I'm seeing. And like when the numbers match, what I feel like I'm watching, that's when I'm the most confident my takes. On this one, I'm a little confused by it. Yeah, he's got the net rating of minus eight that Utah added this summer.

And most of us thought they had a pretty good summer. So I, I kind of like that. I like, you know, I'm a pro numbers guy, obviously, but I kind of like when the eye test doesn't match the numbers, because that's when the analysis becomes really interesting to me. I feel like, who was the Cody Franz? And remember, he was like this flashpoint of the analytics movement where his analytics were phenomenal and every coach thought he was bad. And it was just fascinating to watch that dynamic play out. So I'm curious to see if we're right about Utah or if the numbers are right about Utah. Because J.J. Paterko, that's a potential 30 goal score you're adding to a team that's got a lot of firepower as it is.

team that's kind of on the up and up. Kesselring is, you know, he's, he's on number four or number five. He's fine. He's got a big shot. He can play. I like that Buffalo added him, but it's, it's just interesting to see how, how down Dom is on what everyone else is up by. That's what I like. I like it when Dom's not in the mainstream, because that's when we get the fun Twitter Wars. So at least it'll make Twitter interesting for a little while. Utah also added Brandon Tanev, so he had some grit to some forechecking to the forwards. And they also added Nate Schmidt, who had a resurgence and played spectacularly for Florida in the playoffs. I think he was like one of their leading points guys in the playoffs,

which nobody would have had that on their bingo card going in. I like what they've done. It's going to be fun to see what Utah looks like. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the team that is dead last on this list is the Los Angeles Kings, who added a net rating of minus 18. I don't know why we can't just say subtracted 18 from their net rating, but that's math for you. Outer, Tanner, Jeannot, Vladislav Gavrov, obviously the big one, that trade was a little controversial.

Gordon Spence and David Ridditch, in our Corey Perry, Joel Armia, Cody C, C, C, Brian Dumlin, and Anton Forzburg. The Kings, I mean, it's been, I feel like we've had a couple of these stops and starts with the Kings were like, they're about to become contenders, and then they just shoot themselves in the foot.

I don't know what or where the Kings are right now. I just know they're not going to win the Stanley Cup next year. No, but the thing that Dom's rating does not account for is that by adding Corey Perry, you insure yourself a loss in the Stanley Cup final. So I mean, screw the analytics. Corey Perry's going to the Stanley Cup final. It's just, it's science.

So, I mean, I, it's funny. Dom wrote, it's addition by subtraction. The Kings pulled off the rare feet of subtraction by addition. They added a bunch of players that aren't that good. Like they, they didn't, Gavikov is a significant loss, I guess. But outside of that, they didn't like break, they didn't like tear the thing down. They just added a bunch of players that are now going to play minutes that aren't probably as good as the players that were playing those minutes last year. It's very odd.

The poor Los Angeles Kings, they just cannot get past Edmonton. I thought this was the year they were going to do it. They didn't. And I don't think they ever will now. I think we see this sometimes where a team kind of runs into a roadblock and they start making trades for the sake of making trades instead of thinking about what's best for the franchise. And you overreact to a playoff series or even for playoffs series. I don't know if that's an overreaction or not, but I just feel like the Kings are at best running in place here.

Speaking to Corey Perry, let's talk about the Edminton Oilers. Should we be worried about the Oilers? Two-time Western Conference champions, they got worse. They lost Evander Cain. They lost Corey Perry, who was a big a dish. He was a top-line player for them in the playoffs. They lost Connor Brown, who was like a sneaky good depth score. Victor Arvinson, they lost John Klingberg and his magic new hips that you were talking about.

Yep. And they didn't add a goalie. So is Edmonton's kind of run over here? It seems like, so I remember in the playoffs, and especially because when Vegas and Edmonton play, the last time those two teams had played, the year Vegas went on to win the cup, all the talk was about the depth that Vegas had and how big of an advantage it was for Edmonton. Well, this year, it wasn't. Edmonton's depth forwards were better than Vegas's depth forwards. And that was to me the difference in why Edmonton went to these back-to-back cup runs compared to the years they had spent wasting away, McDavid and Leon Drysidels Prime.

I think they just lost a bunch of forward depth. Now, I do like the Mangiopani signing. I think he's coming off a down year in Washington. I think this was a by-low with a high-upside type of signing. They didn't have to pay him much because of that down year. I love the Mangi-a-Pani signing. I think he's going to be better in Edmonton than he was in Washington. But I do think that overall this team probably lost a little bit of its forward depth.

Now, that's assuming that some of these young players don't step up. I think Edmonton's counting on like a Matthew Savoy, Savoy, I coward. These are guys that they want to, they're kind of clearing the room for them to play more minutes and them to step up. If they step up, the forward depth is great. If they don't, there's going to be some concerns. And then you mentioned it. The biggest concern with this team is goaltending. It's been their biggest Achilles heel for the last two years. And they did nothing to improve it. They just, like, if you can't get a better goalie than Stuart Skinner, I understand.

Stuart Skinner is, is an average starting NHL goalie. that means there's only 15 or 16 guys better than him, and none of those teams want to trade that goalie. So it is difficult, as simple as it sounds, to just get a better goalie than him. It's not easy to do. But where I'm blown away is how do you not add a higher-end backup than Calvin Pickard to at least give yourself a better option to go to when Stuart Skinner struggles

or if he's not getting it done? There were two weeks there where Calvin Pickard was the most popular goalie on the planet and it was going to save the day. I cannot fathom not adding a goalie to improve over Pickard. Like, like I said, I think it's hard to improve over Skinner. It's like as much as we want them to, the teams with these goalies don't want to get rid of them. It's easy to improve your backup goalie over Calvin Pickard. Like Calvin Pickard spent five years barely playing in the NHL.

Like he was an AHL goalie. And yes, last year's story was amazing. Yes, he made some big saves and big moments. But he has proven over his entire career. This is not a young goalie what he is. I can't believe they didn't try to bring in a one B, like a true starter one B, like to at least give Skinner some competition. It's very surprising to me. So we'll see.

Maybe they've still got something up their sleeve. Maybe they're going to make a trade between now and camp. But that to me is the biggest concern is maybe they lose that forward depth that really, to me, was the difference between them going to the cup finals and not. And they still haven't fixed their biggest need. Which brings us back to the Yeager-China. of it at all because we are in day 21 of Connor McDavid not having signed a contract extension. And if I'm Connor McDavid, I am not signing anything that's longer than two or three years.

I want to make sure Edmonton's serious about staying on top before I make any kind of commitment. And this is the real test case of a player flexing his muscles and saying, you know, just give me the max for two or three years and I'll decide whether you're worthy of my services going forward. Yep, 100%. All right. We're going to take quick break. When we come back, let's talk about 50 goal scores. Did you know Corey Perry had a 50 goal season just 15 years ago?

God, it's been around a long time. We'll be right back. All right, we're back here. And with Jesse Granger, the NHL recently posted a list of every team's most recent 50 goal score. And we're kind of back in this era where 50 goals is possible again. It felt like for so long in that dead puck era that only Ovechkin could do it. I was going through some numbers here. And what do I got?

I got. There's been 41 50 goal season since. since 2000, 22 since 2010, and 14 in the last four seasons. So there was a decade in the middle there where, you know, Jamie Ben is winning the scoring title with 87 points that we just didn't see 50 goals scores very often. The teams that have never had a 50 goal score, obviously the Seattle Cracken, the Vegas Golden Knights, the Utah Mammoth, but also the National Predators, the Columbus Blue Jackets, and the Minnesota Wild, a bit around for a quarter of a century now.

Any of those teams jump out at you as surprises. And the New Jersey Devils. To me, that was the one. That was the one that was surprising just because, like, when you think of the great devil's years with Marty Broder, they were not outscoring teams. That was that is the last thing you think of was goal scoring when you think of those teams. But it's still, to me, a bit surprising that they've never had a 50 goal score. The closest was Brian Gianta in 2005, 2006. He scored 48.

Pat Verbeek scored 46 in the 80s. John McLean in the 90s scored 45. but to me, of all the teams that don't have a 50 goal score in their history, they're the closest to getting it. Jack Hughes is obviously an elite goal score. He came real close. Let's see. He had 43, I believe it was. 43, two years ago, 2022, 23.

So he was right there. Obviously, he's had some injuries since then. He's got to stay healthy. But I think he, like, of all the teams without one, I feel like Jack Hughes can do it for the devils. And I was, that was the team I was most surprised didn't have one in their history. Yeah, there's some interesting ones here. Like, Evgeny Malkins, the last penguin player to do that in 2011, 2012. You just kind of assume either he or Crosby has done it more recently since then.

The Blackhawks, Taves and Cain never got to 50. Patrick Sharp never got to 50. Jeremy Roneck in 92-993. That's super high-scoring, 92-93 season, is the last Chicago Black Hawk. Pierre Turgeon, the last Islander, that same season. Pat LaFontaine and Alex McGilney for Buffalo, that same season. Luke Robitai for the Kings, that same season. 92-93 was an absolutely insane year in the hockey world.

The longest drought is the Carolina Hurricane slash Hartford Whalers. Somebody named Blaine Stoughton, Stoffton, I've never heard of this man in my life. In 1981, 82, back when, you know, you sneeze and you accidentally scored 50 goals in the NHL, completely different sport back then. Who do you think is next, the next kind of player that's going to breach that 50 plato? Right now we've got your Austin Matthews and your David Poster Knox, guys that have done this regular. regularly, who's going to be kind of next to join this kind of fraternity? That's a great question. I mean, like, Braden Point is a guy who he's obviously done it already.

I feel like he's going to score 50 goals for a very long time. I will say, I was going through these teams and trying to guess. And each team, it's basically the same formula, unless they've got a star that has already either scored 50 or scored in the high 40s, for the most part, I'm looking for, okay, who scored like 30-something goals and they're only like 22, 23, 24? That's pretty much the formula I was going through for every team and then picking that guy, like, maybe he takes a big step in scores. And then I get to the Washington Capitals and I'm like, I think the most likely guy to do it is the 40-year-old. I think Alex Ovechkin is still the most likely. And like, it's, it's wild how he's been able to. I will say, does Carreal Caprisov count? Because he hasn't done

yet. I think Caprisov has the ability to do it. And I mentioned Jack Hughes for New Jersey. I think Minnesota has never had one, and I think Caprisov could absolutely do it. He was well on his way to a heart trophy season before he got hurt this past season. I feel like he's going to come back with a vengeance this year. I expect a huge year for him. I could absolutely see him jumping into the 50 goal scores. What do you think? Do you have a name in mind of a guy that can jump into that kind of club?

I'm more interested in the young guys that could do it. I think Connor Bernard is going to have a 50 goal season in his career, certainly. I think he could do it for Chicago. Jonathan Chichu is the last San Jose Shark to do it in 2005-06 that kind of fluke season he had. You could certainly see Macklin Celebrini becoming that guy or even Misa.

So I kind of look to the next generation. I feel like the guys that we have now that are 50 goals scorers, we know who they are. And you mentioned Jack Hughes. I do include guys like that in the list. Yeah. But I feel like you're going to have to look to the next generation of scores, these guys that have come up

in this kind of Instagram hockey era and are all about shooting and scoring. What about someone in Vegas? What about a Jack Eichol? Why isn't he on this list for you? Yeah, the Golden Knights have never had a 50 goal score, and I don't think they've got one on the roster, and I don't think they've got one in the pipeline.

They obviously don't have a ton of prospects because they trade them all the way to improve at the deadline, and that's worked for them. But, I mean, Jack Eichols never, he's, his career high for goals is only 36, and that was in 2019-20 in Buffalo. Not this past season, but the season before that, scored 31 in Vegas. That's his highest in Vegas. The Golden Knights are a, they don't have one guy that

scores all the goals. They are really evenly distributed down the lineup. Ikel is a past first player. He's got a heck of a shot. And I say this all the time sitting in the press box. I'm like, it'll be a two on one. And Iichael's got the puck and he passes it across. And I'm like, that goalie is so happy when he sees Jack Eichel pass that puck. Because if I was that goalie, do anything but shoot it at me, Jack Eichael, because his release is so good. Bruce Cassidy is constantly asking for him to shoot more. GM Kelly McCriman, constantly asking him for him to shoot more. I think if Jack Eichael went out there with the goal of scoring 50 goals in a season,

I think he could do it. I think he has the shot to do it. I think he can get to the net, but I don't think it'll ever happen. And they just added Mitch Marner, amazing player, not a goal score. He's a playmaker. I just don't think the Golden Knights will ever have. Now, now, I'm saying this, if they play Jack Eichel and Mitch Marner on the same line, and I just told you how they both refused to shoot the puck, maybe the third guy on that line,

no matter who it is, is going to score 50 goals. It becomes Zach Hyman, yeah. It's, yeah, it's Ivan Barbashev or Pavl Dorofiev, whoever it is. Maybe that guy is the one that scores 50 goals. He's not the one we see coming because those two are such good playmakers and they refuse to pass the puck. But yeah, I don't think Ike will ever get to 50 just because of the nature of the type of player he is, not because he can't do it. You never know what guys like that.

You know, I remember Patrick Hayne when he came into the league. He was a pure playmaker, just wanted to pass all the time. And eventually he realized, you know what? I can shoot better than everyone else can too. I should shoot more. And he got up into that high 40s. You know, I go is pretty far into his career to kind of make that transition. But, you know, you've seen some of these like a Chris Kreider all of a sudden post-50 in his late in his career.

It's conceivable. The teams I would worry about it's funny how, you know, Edmonton and Washington between them have like 90% of the 50 goal seasons between Drysidal, McDavid, David, and Ovechkin, who's going to do it for Columbus? Who's going to do it for, you know, even the wild? I don't know if Caprizov is a 50-gold guy exactly. The predators, the Cracken, the mammoth. Like, these could be long, long droughts where you don't ever see a 50-gold score. It's been 44 years for the Hurricanes franchise.

You could see those kind of droughts extending with some of these teams that they're just, the Minnesota Wild just don't score goals like that. It's never been their game. You'd like to see it now with Capri's. He's up. They've got a guy who can do it, but I don't know if he's got the people around him that can facilitate that. You can't score 50 goals in a vacuum. You have to be surrounded by an incredible amount of talent to have that kind of season. One of the young guys that I forgot to mention when you asked me that earlier that fit perfectly into that. Montreal, Canadians haven't had a 50 goal score since I was born. And I think Cole Cawfield can do it. He hasn't gotten quite that close, but he's got the release. If that team becomes an offensive powerhouse, like he needs the whole team to be to be better for. for him to be able to get that kind of total. But we talked up Montreal earlier.

If they become a, like, top five offensive team in the league, I think Cole Cofield can absolutely score 50 goals. And it's been a long time since they've had it. In Columbus, can Adam Fantilli score 50? I don't know if that's his game. Like, he's going to be a great player, but kind of like I was talking about with Ikel, I don't know if Fantili is a 50-goal score type of player.

He's probably the best guess, if you've got one in Columbus. But, yeah, other than him, I don't see any. anyone on the precipice of being that type of player for Columbus. There's a level of selfishness you have to have, and I don't mean that in a negative way. You have to be so confident and arrogant in yourself to know, I should be the one shooting all the time. You don't want to be a guy who defers.

You can't play a ton of defense and be a 50-go-old guy. Let's be honest, you have to cherry-pick a little bit to be that kind of guy, and that kind of play is frowned upon in the league. I wonder if we have to kind of recalibrate our expectations of what a monster sees in the end of it. I mean, you go back and you look at some of these guys in the 80s who just were just popping off 50 goals all the time. And in the early 90s, it was like that too. Maybe 40 is the new 50.

Maybe, like, scoring 40 goals in the NHL and the modern NHL is an awfully impressive feat. And maybe we need to dial back that 50 to 40 as kind of the benchmark. Because 50's always been that 50 goals and 50 games, that's always been the best round number we have. And it's so unattainable for so many players that maybe we just need to recalibrate. Yeah, I mean, that's why you see so many droughts on here. I will say, I think outside of, I agree with you, you might have to cherry pick a little. I think the other cheat code for getting to 50 is just being on a monster power play. Like, if the power play is the number one power play in the league and it's, then there's, like,

Vegas had, I think, the number one or number two power play last year, but it's so evenly distributed. If you've got a power play that you've got one weapon that you're constantly feeding, that's how you get to 50 in today's NHL, aside from the two or three like elite guys, Connor McDavid's going to get there on his own. But aside from those guys, I think you basically have to be the number, like the clear number one option on the league's top power play. All right. You're a lunatic and actually went through this list and tried to come up with a name for almost

every team. Who's the biggest reach that you had as a future 50 goals? Oh, that's a great question. How about Seth Jarvis? I don't think Seth Jarvis is going to score 50 for Carolina. But man, was it hard to? find one for the Hurricanes. They were a couple teams. I just didn't put anything. Pittsburgh, I have no idea what to write because, like, all their top players are, probably Sidney Crosby

is the best bet. Yeah, yeah, exactly. All their top players are past their prime. I didn't know what to write for Utah or the Golden Knights or Winnipeg. Ovi was my answer for Washington. As I said earlier, that might be a little bit of a stretch at this point in his career. But I think Seth Jarvis, when I was writing the names down, the one that felt the worst to write down was Seth Jarvis. And that's nothing against him. He is a hell of a player. But he is not. not going to score 50 goals in a season. I love Seth Jarvis as a player, but no, he plays way too much defense to score 50 goals. That is not happening.

All right. Well, thank you for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show. Please leave us a five-star rating and review if you're enjoying the show. I'll be back on Thursday with Dan Robson to discuss the verdict in the Hockey Canada trial. Thanks for listening. Talk to you then.