The Athletic Hockey Show - Which players have raised their profile in the Stanley Cup Playoffs?

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

With the opening round of the Stanley Cup Playoffs in full swing, Max and Jesse highlight some of the players who have elevated their game and raised their profile so far. Before that, the guys react to news of the Pittsburgh Penguins parting ways with head coach Mike Sullivan and discuss where he could end up and what’s next for the Pens. Plus, a look at where every series stands heading into Monday night’s slate of games. Hosts: Max Bultman and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Jesse Granger for another episode of the athletic hockey show. Mark Lazarus out this week. So we get to have Jesse in. And Jesse, it's well-timed. We got a lot of news to get to today, starting with the big one that dropped just before we hit record. And that is Mike Sullivan out in Pittsburgh. What's your first reaction here?

Yeah, I mean, it's one of those cases where I think he's a hell of a coach. But I also think that sometimes coaches just really. run their course on a team. And maybe it's time for both sides. Like, I think the Penguins maybe need something fresh. I think Mike Sullivan needs something fresh. I don't necessarily think he's doing a terrible job there, but I don't disagree with the hiring. I think they do need to mix some things up, despite how highly I think of Sullivan as a coach. Yeah, I mean, all you have to do is look at who the longest tenured coaches are in the league. And for a long time, Sullivan was part of kind of this bulletproof four that also include John Cooper, Jared Bedner, and Rod

And more everyone else. Like the fourth longest tenured head coach now is Martin St. Louis. And the fifth is Bruce Cassidy in Vegas. Like it's shocking, but it is, it illustrates how short the shelf life is of the modern NHL coach. And it's what made guys like Sullivan kind of a marvel. And with Cooper even and Bednar to an extent and Brindamore certainly, you're like, okay, well, those teams are in it every year.

So yeah, you're not going to make a change when you're knocking on the door, the Stanley Cup or the conference finals. or whatever. They've won, certainly all that. What made it so amazing with Sullivan is, while he has won, it has been a few years since they were really, really in it. And you felt like kind of every year, is there a chances could happen? And there was such a clear loyalty factor that it just felt like this isn't going to happen.

Now it is happen. And the funny thing is, I wonder, like, does Mike Sullivan make it to next week on the free agent market? There's some big, big openings on the NHL job market. Some original six teams, you got Boston. You got the Rangers, the Blackhawks. I mean, the Flyers are out there. The ducks are out there. Who's your favorite here for Mike Sullivan right now?

Yeah, I think if he does make it to next week without a job, it'll be because he just wanted a week off. I think you could probably get hired today if he wanted to. I mean, obviously the ties that everyone's going to draw with Chris Drury and New York, I think it makes a ton of sense. The two just worked together in four nations. They're perfect match in terms of the Rangers are a team that is trying to win right now. This is not a young team that they're trying to build up. I would imagine that Sullivan is

ready to win, and I would imagine that the GMs that are looking at Sullivan are thinking of him as the guy that can be the final piece to try to get this team over the finish line. And obviously, the Rangers, with the disaster that this season was, they aren't in the same spot that they were a year ago where it was like, they're right there on the Eastern Conference final and they're right there. I do think that the Rangers need some pieces and they need to improve, but that's a lot of talent on that team. I think that some small tweaks can make that team all of a sudden a really competitive playoff team again. So to me, between the USA hockey ties with Chris Drury and Mike Sullivan and the fact that the Rangers are one of the more ready to win openings, that just seems

like a perfect match for me. Yeah, I think that's the key. I mean, the Rangers are the team that drafted him into the NHL, which is kind of cool. He never actually played for them, but they drafted him. That would be kind of a cool storyline. But he is a Massachusetts kid. So you would naturally think, oh, Bruins jobs open, Sullivan's available. This is where this has to go. But the Bruins are in, I think, a much, they're both in tricky spots, but I think the Rangers spot is more one that a coach goes in and goes, I can fix that and get this team back into, you know, second, third round of the playoffs within like a year.

I mean, they were a conference finalist a year ago. They won the president's trophy a year ago. They have problems, certainly. I think it does probably help him that he coach, you know, one of the guys who's futures in flux there is Chris Kreider. He coach Chris Kreider at the Four Nations. He's going to have good familiarity there. He should go into this with a pretty good idea of what he's getting.

And wherever he lands, I guess. But certainly if it was the Rangers, he would be able to know pretty concretely, this is what I feel like I have to do. I agree. I think that makes the Rangers the favorite. But you never know. I mean, does he want to go right into that kind of, you know, we just talked about the security, the stability that he had in Pittsburgh?

You're not going to get that with the New York Rangers. That doesn't exist with the New York Rangers. And I think that's the thing you'll have to weigh is, okay, it's this opportunity, but it's also the one that I have to win immediately. And maybe there'll be something appealing about that. I guess going back into the stakes after you were in this situation in Pittsburgh where you weren't really expected to make the playoffs the last couple of years, competitors don't love to be in that situation. So maybe there's even something kind of appealing about it from the Rangers perspective. Yeah, we were actually talking to Bruce Cassidy here in Vegas about this, I don't know, maybe a month ago, about the pressure of winning. and obviously the pressure is high in Vegas. And he mentioned, like, he's talked about it.

Like, there's no negative to that at all. Like, I'm a coach. I want to coach a team that everyone expects to win because that's the type. That's, like, that's what you live for. That's what you coach for is to be on a team where everyone expects you to win. And that means you've got the tools to get it done. I imagine, especially like you said, Sullivan's kind of, that team, we've hoped they could make the playoffs. The team obviously hopes they can make the playoffs because they're in such a weird

spot to kind of transition it to Pittsburgh. It's like they refuse to rebuild because Sidney Crosby and Fagney Malkin are still there. They're not going to just tear it down while those two are still there. They just aren't going to do it. So they clearly aren't a contender, but they also were trying to make the playoffs. So it's like there's very little pressure there because everyone knows that like when they miss the playoffs, everyone just kind of shrugs their shoulders like, yeah, they're getting old and they just don't have it anymore. Right. I would imagine that Sullivan is craving the pressure of what Madison Square Garden and what the bright lights of New York City and the disaster that was the Rangers this year, I imagine he's craving that type of pressure.

Or Boston for that. Yeah, I was just going to say that. I mean, you could say that about both of those teams. You talked about it with Pittsburgh, though. Like, does that, does the fact that he's leaving now here, like that they're parting ways, however you want to put it, does it signal that maybe there is going to be more of an embrace of a rebuild here? Like, is that, is there a little bit, you know, remember the Tortorella quote that's

like, I don't really have. an interest in learning to coach a team in this situation. I wonder if there's any of that flavor to this. Are they parting ways? Because Pittsburgh knows that they're going to have to do a little more of a serious rebuild than what they've done so far. Yeah, I would think so. I mean, obviously, Dubas is still kind of new there. Maybe he's the one that's kind of spearheading the, hey, we need to get younger. And maybe it's something like, I look at the Kings and like the Kings still have Drew Dowdy and Anse Copatar. They've still got that, like, the, the group. Those are like the core pieces from the older generation. But they've also injected like

Quentin Befield took the big step this year. And they've got like Brant Clark. They've got some young town. Like I could see the penguins. If they do it right, you obviously have to hit some draft picks out of the park because you're not picking top three, whatever. You're going to have to hit some draft picks out of the park. But if you can, I could see them being kind of similar to what the Kings are doing in terms of if you can hit on a couple young players, sign a couple of good free agents to good deals. Crosby and Malkin could still be a part of it, but they can't be the pieces. Like, they aren't going to lead a team, a lesser team to the playoffs and deep into them. I think that you got to rebuild a little bit. I would look at the Kings as kind of what you

hope the penguins could do over the next few years. Yeah, the teams that every, everyone in that spot is going to be looking at the Kings, the Blues, and the Capitals. They've all kind of done it. Now, the blues did it a little more seriously. Petrangelo goes or Riley goes. They kind of rebuilt it around Robert Thomas, Jordan Cairo, and obviously a couple veterans in the back end, Perako, Falk, Bennington, of course. But the Capitals and the Kings, I think, very similar, right? Ovechkin is still the standard bear there in John Carlson,

but a lot of the rest of the supporting cast are guys that you brought in. They did it in different ways. You talked about the high draft picks. There's really only one high draft pick in Washington, and it's Ryan Leonard. Yeah. Everyone else has been kind of reclamation type. And certainly if you're able to, I don't know that anyone can replicate their hit rate on those reclamations, to be honest. It's tough to do.

But L.A. did it a little more, I don't know what I say conventionally, but it's the top two pick in Quentin Byfield. It's the early first round defenseman and Brandt Clark. And then, you know, you get a lot of other little wins. They actually had a big miss trying to get Pierre-Luc Dubois, and they trade away Gabe Valardi, who I think could have been a really nice piece for where they've gone. So you're right. I think, you know, if you are the Pittsburgh Penguins, you're looking at these kind of, teams who managed to not tear it down to the studs. They didn't go full Chicago. They didn't go full Detroit. And if you're Sydney Crosby, you're probably not.

If you have Sydney Crosby, you probably can't do that. And if you're trading Sidney Crosby, man, that's a day that this podcast would be quite interesting, I suppose. So we'll say if you look at those three teams, L.A., Washington, and St. Louis, they all got great gold hitting the last couple years. Like Bittington has had a resurgence. the kings got the most out of Cam Talbot. Now they're getting the most out of Darcy Kemper. And Washington, Charlie Lindgren had a big year last year. And they signed Logan Thompson.

Sorry, they traded for Logan Thompson and signed them to an extension. The penguins are going to need to fix that position if they're going to do anything. Like whether it's, whether it's let's try to run it back with these guys and sign another big guy with Carlson and Crosby and Malkin or whether it's a semi rebuild. They have got to figure that position out because Jari and Adelkevich. And it's just been a disaster this season. So to me, that's like if you're the coach coming in, that's what you absolutely have to solidify to have any chance to do anything. I'm going to do something ill-advised and cannibalize,

what surely would have been a segment for us later this summer when you come on. But you brought it up, and it's been sticking in my mind. So at the trade deadline this year, one of the reasons the Red Wings made that Peter Morazic trade, they say, is because they thought this goalie market was going to be really tough to find someone. and they actually liked that Marazik was under contract for another year, even though it was over $4 million, even though he struggled. They just wanted that certainty.

When we talk about Pittsburgh, can they fortify the goalie position? Is there anyone out there that you feel like? I mean, McKenzie Blackwood was your guy, right? He's obviously in a good spot now. Is there anyone out there who you see? That's a guy I would take a chance on for any of these teams. It's tough. The free agent market is brutal, like you mentioned.

Right now, there's one name on top of that free agent market that is. a high level goalie, but it comes with a huge risk. And that's Freddie Anderson. And we just saw him get knocked out of yet another game yesterday for Carolina. But this dude, when he's on the ice, it's a 920 save percentage. Like he is elite. He's not just a good goalie. He's like one of the best goalies in the world when he's healthy. It just never happens. He just hasn't been able to, and he's 35. So is he going to get healthier at 35? Probably not. So that one's a huge risk. I think it would be swinging for the fences. It would be very pitiful. It would be very like, this guy is old, but man, is he good?

Let's hope he can hold it together. I could see that. Outside of him, there aren't many difference makers on the free agent market. Like Jake Allen is probably the second best goalie, and that tells you a lot about the market. He is an excellent backup goalie, but he's probably not the guy you're going to lean on, especially at this point in his career, to be a starter. It would almost force you to go to the trade market. And I would imagine there are going to be quite a few teams trying to trade for not a lot of

goleys that are available to trade for. So it's going to be tough. This is a really bad time to try to upgrade your goaltending this off season, probably the worst we've seen in a long time. And like you said, there were teams, including Detroit, that were very much, that was part of their plans. You look at every goalie that was set to be a UFA. They all got long-term extensions this season because GMs are afraid of that market. All right. So then where does Pittsburgh go behind the bench? Obviously, they'll hope to get a goalie. That's a quick way to success. But let's say that it's fairly status quo there. Who's the top name you'd watch in Pittsburgh? You think this is a situation where one of these rising young coaches la David Carl would have any interest in coming into? That

to me seems like a tough one, frankly, for him? Or is this a place where we're going to see somebody get their second chance or something of that effect? Yeah, I mean, Carl is the, like, I'm a D.U fan, so I watch Denver quite a bit. He is the, the prize pick. If I was Pittsburgh, that's who I would be going for. I doubt he will, because it seems like he's being very choosy with. It's not just the first NHL team that comes here. He is waiting for the right situation and for all the reasons we've talked about. This doesn't seem like the right situation. Now, coaching Sidney Crosby might be tough to turn down.

I don't know. I would have a hard time turning it down. But Carl is obviously in a position of power and a position of leverage. So we'll see if he would consider that. I don't think he would go there. But honestly, I don't know. Who do you think Pittsburgh should target? Like if you were dubus, who would you be looking to bring it?

I think Rick Tocket is a guy who has some history in that city. And again, another guy who I think can be choosy, I think he will have his options. But that's a guy who has familiarity with those stars. And I think knows how to coach those stars. You know, are you any closer to winning in Pittsburgh than you were in Vancouver? No. I mean, the lights are not as bright. So maybe there's that.

But, you know, again, to go back to what we talked about with Mike Sullivan, I think these coaches want to go to situations where winning is very. very much on the table and even expect it. And so maybe that's a tough one. That's why I look at some of these guys who maybe would be in the market for another chance, whether it's a Jay Woodcroft or somebody like that, guys who have had a spin at it, but want another one. I guess technically Rick Toggett fits in that category,

but I think he's going to have a lot of options. So Pittsburgh's probably just not, it's a very appealing, I think, market for coaches right now. Like Anaheim is the one that, you know, I think all these guys should be excited about with the number of young pieces they have there. they feel like toward the end of the year they were really knocking on the door of competing. There's some really good jobs out there. Whether you want the prestige and the history of the original six or you want the,

oh, I want to be the guy who said, I got this team back into the playoffs. You kind of take your pick, what your flavor of job is. There's an opening for it. And by the end of round one, Jesse, we may have some more. The series are in a really interesting spot. We're going to talk about that right after this break. All right, we are back, Jesse. And for this segment, I wanted to look around.

We're going to talk about all these series. pretty much. But we're going to also talk about players who have raised their profile league wide through the playoffs. It's always, I think, one of the most interesting things, especially guys who have not made deep runs in the playoffs before or who are just having younger guys who are having kind of breakouts and everyone's starting to appreciate their game. And I want to start, although it's interesting timing, I don't think he had an amazing game last night, but it is the game that I wanted to talk about most. And that's L.A. Edmonton. I think this has been one of the most fascinating series so far. Every single game is a

roller coaster. So no surprise, the series is a roller coaster. Let's start with Kempe, and we'll talk about last night. But he's a guy who I think for the first three games of the series, a lot of people were going. Holy cow, is this guy making a huge impact. Yeah, he's playing great and the goals are flowing. So in that series, it is, there are so many goals that if you are playing well, if you're in good form, you are going to have a ton of points. I'll start by saying, and I jumped on the podcast this morning before we started recording. And the first thing I said to our producer was, I think I killed off the Edmonton Oilers too early. I had them dead and buried and was very comfortable in that situation. Now all of a sudden, they are not just alive, but I went from thinking,

this is Kings and Five. And then at one point, I was like, I might have given the Oilers too many games. I think this might be a sweep to, I think I would put the Oilers as the favorite in this series at this point, that team just looked so bad down the stretch. Their guys were banged up. I think this is the best version of the Kings we've ever seen. But all of a sudden, McDavid and Drysidle and Bouchard are coming to life. And they got home, they got the matchups, and all of a sudden, Kempie wasn't scoring the way he was in L.A. He has been phenomenal. I don't know if it's going to be enough, which is something that is crazy to say. If you would have told me this four days ago, I would not have believed you. But yeah, where do you see this series going and what have you thought of Kempi?

I mean, we talked about Laz and I when we had our show last week, the urge to kind of bury the Oilers. And we were kind of cautioning like, hey, we haven't seen him in Edmonton yet. Edmonton hasn't gotten to pick these matchups. And we thought that was going to be the biggest reason that, you know, they could slow Kemp because Kempi, the games one and two was amazing. He was still really good in game three. And I was thinking, okay, even though the Oilers won that game, the Kings still looked like they're in a pretty good spot. I still think the Kings are in a pretty good spot because I think they've looked like the better team. Yes.

But to your point, Vegas now has the odds. Oilers to win the series, Bet MGM minus 115, Kings minus 105. Basically a pick-em, but they're going to, it's a little bit slightly tilted toward the Oilers now. And the reason is that they continue to have the two or maybe three best players in this series, probably two. You know, Copa-Tar has been outstanding and kind of this ageless wonder factor. But McDavid and Dreis is, they've been outstanding.

your point can be goal for goal point for point with him, right? He's tied for the playoff lead and scoring both goals and points. I don't know that we can expect that to continue, especially, you know, the way dry saddle looked down the stretch last night, pretty elite. But I think the thing that Edmonton is going to have to overcome, you know, Calvin Picker did have a nice stat line by the end of the night. Did you really feel that much more comfortable with him in goal? I haven't. I thought, so we've now seen two games. from Stuart Skinner and two games from Calvin Pickard. One's 0 and 2, the other's 2 and 0.

And I thought they were basically equal. Calvin Pickard has not looked great. But what I will say is he's made a couple big saves in each game. And when you've got a team like the Oilers that can score four, five, six a night, sometimes that's all you need. The Oilers don't need Calvin Pickard to go in there and shut things down. The way we've seen, like, I don't know, like to me, the best goal tended series going on right now is Colorado, Dallas.

Blackwood Nottinger are just playing out of their minds. The Oilers don't need that. They need you to make a couple key saves in big moments and let us outscore the opposition. And so far, Calvin Pickard has done that. So to his credit, I would definitely be sticking with him, obviously, after two wins. I would keep sticking with him until the wheels fall off that. But the real question is, like, can they win this series with Calvin Pickard? I think the answer is clearly yes.

Can they win the Stanley Cup with Calvin Pickard? I think is a much, much harder question to add. I don't think that that's going to happen. So then that leads you, it's like, okay, well, so then how are they going to win the Stanley Cup? They're going to go back to Stuart Skinner and then he's going to lead them? Like, it gets hairy for the Oilers in goal, even despite these two wins in a row. I don't really know what they're going to do long term.

And I think the biggest problem is going to be Calvin Pickard has never been that guy that you're going to every other day for a prolonged period of time, right? It's, I didn't like the first goal he gave up last night, but it is what it is, the five whole one. But I think he can get hot. Like any goalie in the NHL, he can get hot. I just, it's so hard to sustain that over a period of even two weeks we see goalie struggle when they're not used to that rhythm.

And that's what makes your Vasselovsky's, your Hellebucks of the world. We'll talk about Hellebuk in a second, obviously. So amazing is that over their careers, they're able to do this over 60 starts a year. And we continually see whenever, you know, whether it's Alex Lyon goes on like a two or three week heater and you're like, okay, here it is. It's just really hard to sustain that over these long bursts. And this is a guy in Calvin Pickard who he played 31 games this year, which is a lot for his standards. He still was never, like, I don't know how I'd have to go through and look when Skinner was hurt. I'm sure he had a couple back to backs, but he didn't play many consecutive games.

And this is a guy who prior to this year, he had gone a long time in the NHL without ever reach. in any type of, like, he was playing like three games, four games. Most of his games were in the HL. So this is not a player who is used to playing a lot of games in a row at any NHL level, let alone the Stanley Cup playoffs. So it's going to be interesting. It's cool for him. Calvin Pickard is the guy who he's like, anyone who's talked to him, he's like the nicest guy you'll ever meet. And he's, he's kind of a journeyman in his whole career. He's never been the guy, like you said. Pretty cool moment for him to be able to help this team to kind of climbed their way back into this series and show some life, but I don't know how long it can

last. So now this series will go back to L.A. We obviously saw what the Kings were able to do with those first couple of games in L.A. I think, you know, when you have to put dry saddle and McDavid together, right, they do that for the third period last night and it works for the oilers. When you have to do it over a full game, it leaves you open to seeing the other team's best checkers. And L.A. can do it different ways. They can put Culpatar on you or they can put to know on you. And either one, that's a very tough situation for stars to operate. And those are just hard guys to play against. That's why you want them both on your team. I do like LA to win that game. And then it's just back to the wall. McDavid and Drysid will have that in them where you backed

them into a corner and you're almost more scared than you were when the series was zero zero because you know they are putting it all out there. It's desperation. So this has turned into an amazing series. Like you said, it looked like early on it was going to be, uh, this is the story of this is going to be, you know, why didn't the oilers address their goal attending? You know, were they fully healthy? Were they fully themselves? It's not that anymore. The story of this series are, is, can McDavid and Dryside will overcome this situation? Can they will the oilers once again, as they so many times have? It's going to be very interesting. I want to pivot from there into a series that has a very defined narrative. And it's the exact one that I think neither of

us wanted to be talking about four games in. Jesse, what happens when the playoffs begin for Conor Hallibuck, because we do have this with skaters. We have guys who are not as good in the playoffs. It's very easy to kind of figure out, okay, this guy doesn't do well when the goals get harder to come by. There's less rush offense. They got to kind of create these greasy goals. Is there a similar factor to be had for goalies?

Is it traffic in front of the net? What could possibly explain Hellebuck's struggles in the postseason? Yeah, I do think that that absolutely plays a factor. And I think that if you look at Hellebuck's style, to me, Connor Hellebuck plays a very different style of goaltending than most of the NHL. He, like, you just watch the way he moves, the way his positioning in terms of where he's at in the crease in certain plays is very different for most goleys. Especially in a world where the goalies have become very cookie cutter. This isn't the 90s where like you can just watch like a silhouette of a goalie and you know exactly who he is by the like exaggerated saves they're making. most of them look similar. Hellebuck plays so deep in his crease. It's very Henrik-Lunquist-esque to me.

He's not the most athletic guy. He's not the fastest skater. So to me, he plays a little deeper in his crease so that he doesn't have to move as much. It allows him to stay on his angles much easier with less effort. But I think that the downside to that is, like you just said, offense isn't, you're not facing the same type of offense in the playoffs that you are in the regular season. And it becomes, a mess in front of you and teams, especially when you're Connor Hellebuck, and the other team knows, this is the best goalie in the world. We are going to have to do things to beat him. We're not going to be able to beat him one on one. We're going to have to screen him. We're going to have to get tips.

And I think teams are sending all hands on deck to the front of the net. And they are firing away. And when you play deeper in your crease, if you don't see the shot, like Connor Hellebuck can get away with playing deep in his crease, the same way Lundquist could because their reactions are so good. And the way they read the play is so good. good that they make up for being a little deeper, showing a little more net by reacting correctly and predicting what's going to happen.

Well, when you don't see the release, you no longer can predict what's happening and you're just reliant on your net coverage. And Connor Hellebuck's a big dude. He's not UC Soros with a ton of net open, but when you play deep in your crease, even if you're that big, there's going to be more net open. And when you don't see the shot or when the shot deflects off something, there's more room for that puck to find to get in the net. And then I think that it's a snowball effect.

So I think that that is part of it. It's a very, I don't think that's all the reason because it's not like Helibuck's not facing screens in the regular season. He is. But I think it's a combination of teams realize that's how you beat Connor Helibuck. And it's worked. It worked for the avalanche last year. I went back and looked.

And just out of curiosity, I was like, is this a narrative in my head or is this like, I want to see the actual numbers? So I went back and I watched every goal that the, Jets gave up in that series against Colorado last year and then this year against St. Louis, obviously. And they gave up 40 total goals, not including empty nets. 14 of them were either screened, tipped, or both. So that's 35% of the goals.

And this year against St. Louis, it's been 8 of 16. 50% of the goals scored against Connor Hellebuck and the Jets are either screened or tipped. And I do need to go back. And I think I'm going to look at all the playoff teams just to see where their percentages are just to give this context. But for a little bit of context, the Jets scored five of their 24 goals. So only 20% of their goals. So one out of every five Jets goals is the result of a screen or a tip. 35% that they've given up. And 50% this year are. So it's clearly this is not a narrative.

This is actually happening. Teams are focusing on getting tips and screens against the Winnipeg Jets. And then I think what happens to Hellebuck is now you've got the narrative that you don't win in the playoffs. you're giving up these goals where you feel helpless. Like there's no more helpless feeling as a goalie than you didn't see the shot and it's all of a sudden the puck's in the back of your net. So I think that it starts to get in your head. And then he starts giving up goals that he would never give up. Like this is the dude, like these guys picking him glove side and high blocker from just a

clean shot where he's set with his skates set and he's ready for it. Those goals don't happen. Connor Heller Hellabuck doesn't give those goals up. And I think that maybe he's a little more tentative. He's lost his confidence because of the. combination of the narrative and the fact that you're giving up all these goals. It's hard to be confident when it's 4-1 and they just scored twice on you. It's really tough, man.

It is hard to watch Connor Hellebuck right now. He's been pulled in the third period of both of the last two games. Are those mercy pulls or is that something that you think gets in Connor Helibook's head? That's a tough question to answer. I always wonder with goalies. Vegas pulled Aden Hill here a couple of games ago and I was really concerned at how he would respond. responded great. So good for him. I don't know how Connor Hellebuck feels about those. I think that I've seen I've seen some other pod. There's a hockey podcast out there that's probably the most

popular in the world. And they were suggesting should they start Eric Comrie in game two? You're out of your freaking mind. Anyone who says that, they should just take the microphone from. You're never allowed to talk about hockey again. Sorry, it's over. It's over for you. It was a good run. You suggested they play Eric Comrie over Hellebuck. You're done now. You're no longer. longer allowed to have an opinion about the sport ever again. It's over. I'm sorry. That's the line for you. Yeah. Yes. It's, it's done. It was fun while you could talk about hockey. You're not allowed to anymore. I read it as a workload thing, right? Like, this game's over. We're not, we're not putting another 18 unnecessary minutes and however many shots on this guy's body. We know he's taken as much

workload as anybody in the NHL. We expect him to take as much workload as anybody in the NHL going forward through these playoffs, right? So I, that's how I took it, but you just don't know. And when it's two games in a row, that's where I think, like, you know, you talked about the mental ripple. And that's what this is. And man, he is going to have a real task in front of him. It's going to help going home, no doubt. But St. Louis has looked excellent. And I picked the blues ahead of this series, not to fade Halibuck, but I just thought the blues looked like a team that doesn't have a big weakness. And I think those teams are hard to play against because they will give you trouble all four lines up and down the lineup. Just when you think you've gotten the

Thomas line off the ice, here comes somebody else who's going to do some. damage. They've got these fun young players, neighbors, Snuggaroo, Bull Duke. Like, there's just a lot of good energy around the Blues. I think those are hard teams to play against. Now Helbook has to do it while fighting these demons. The West is just amazing, Jesse. Like, we're going to get game five of Avs stars tonight. And we got another guy raising his profile here. Not to you, though, because you called him. But this series has probably been my favorite series of the playoffs so far. My two. Hard to come by. And a big reason why is your guy, McKenzie Blackwood.

Man, it's been fun watching him on the big stage. Like you said, I've watched McKenzie Blackwood for a long time. And people that I, and like it wasn't just me watching him. It was talking to people. Like you talk to goalie coaches. You talk to like former goalies that have played with McKenzie Blackwood. And they have nothing but good things to say about the guy and his athleticism and his work ethic. And I think it took a little time in the NHL for his brain to catch up to his body.

Like this is a physical specimen. and he's probably the most athletic goalie in the world. And he was that when the devil's drafted him. But the goalie is such a mental position. You've got to read the play. It's why Connor Hellebuck can be as good as he is without being the most athletic guy. I think it took McKenzie Blackwood a little bit of maturing. He wasn't great for New Jersey.

And I know that Devils fans watched this. And they're like, he was part of the problem. Like, he was part of the problem there. He didn't play great. They sent him, they sent him to San Jose. I think he matured a lot in his game. I think he's always been a mature guy, but I think his hockey matured a lot. And he started reading the play better.

When you see 50 shots a night behind the sharks, you get a lot of practice. So I think that he turned a corner in his game. Now all of a sudden, you take this completed product. I think he's now the goalie that everyone hoped he could be. You put him on an Aves team that has shown they can win, even with just average goaltending. He's obviously given them way better than that. I think the Aves are actually getting kind of carry. by him, which is weird. Usually the aves are carrying their goalie. This time, the abs can't seem to

score because Ottinger's been just as good on the other side, but Blackwood has been an absolute wall back there. And man, just his lateral explosion is unbelievable. Like it, there are so many times when the stars make a pass where it's like, that is a shot into a wide open net. And suddenly Blackwood's, he's not just there. His whole body's in front of the net. Like there's nothing to shoot at because he just, the way he leaps side to side in that crease is unbelievable. man, he's fun to watch. And he's, he's been locked in. And so has Jake Ottinger. They have just been dueling back and forth every game. That's, I agree. That is my favorite series. And it's like the West. They're all two, two. I couldn't pick any of them. I, like, confidently. I cannot confidently pick who's going to win any of these four series in the West at 2, which is great. That's what playoff hockey is all about. Do we address Muriel Heiskin for this one? If you're, if you're Dallas. I think you probably have to. I mean, it's getting close. I like to it's getting close to if you don't play him now, you might not get a chance to play him this season with how close this series is.

And it just feels like every game is like do or die now. So if he can go, you, you almost have to go, right? Yeah. And Colorado did it. I mean, Gabe Landiscaud comes in and it, they're obviously, they're different injuries or different stories.

I'm not saying you're doing this just to do it. But the lift, I think Colorado got, especially he scores. Like I, there's an unquantifiable element to that that I think. I just, I don't know, maybe it's me being kind of a romantic or whatever, but I think there's really something to that when you see a guy who's so important to your team come out and,

and you know he's not 100%, he's gotten through it. There's just an inspirational quality to that, I think. Couldn't agree more. What a cool moment that was when he scored that goal. Yeah, it's, I mean, it's, it's sports. And they're humans and momentum exists. And I think that that's a way to just manufacture momentum. Like momentum is a real thing. I don't think anyone that's ever played a sport in their life would disagree that momentum is real.

The problem is it's like a chicken or egg thing. Like, you have to play well in order to get the momentum. So you have to do that. But the thing is, there is one way to manufacture that momentum. Colorado did it with Landisog. And I think Dallas could absolutely do it with Heiskenen. All of a sudden, he's on the ice for warmups. Everyone's joking with him.

He's on the bench to start the game. Everyone's feeling better about themselves. You can actually create some momentum for yourself. by putting him back in, but obviously he's got to be ready. And with the home crowd, right? Like, you know, they're going to give you that the second they hear or see him and you're going to feel it in that building. I'm going to be glued to my couch tonight.

We get the Battle of Florida and then Dallas, Colorado, just absolute scenes to borrow a phrase from the Brits. One more series in the West I want to get to, and it's the one that you've been the most around. It also has a player here who I think has raised his profile as much as anybody. To me, it started at the Four Nations. I've liked Matt Boldy going back to his time at the US NTDP. I loved him at the Four Nations.

I was like, this is, this guy is a big game player. All series long, he has been nothing less than a massive game player. He's been on, I think, the most impactful line in the series with Carrel Caprizov. Caprizov's been excellent too. But just you notice him in so many ways in battles around the net. Boldy is a stud. He's been so good. So good.

And like people were, I remember when he was named to the Four Nations team, there was like some surprise out there. Like not by everyone, but there were definitely people that were like, whoa, oldie, wasn't expecting that name on there. And now you look back at it and it's like, well, of course. I mean, he was so good at Four Nations. And now he's been awesome in this series. And to me, he and Caprisov are the difference in this series. And Vegas had a big win to tie it two to two. But the reason Minnesota is in this series and looks like an absolute live dog to win this series is those two.

because to me, Vegas has had the better of the possession. Vegas has the puck more. Vegas has more shots. Vegas has more chances. But when those two get a chance, Caprisov and Boldi, and it's generally one creating it for the other, they score every time. Like the frequency, like Boldie will be quiet, he'll be quiet.

And then the second he gets the puck on his stick, it's like, and it's in the back of the net. And then Vegas kind of controls the next six or seven shifts and they're throwing pucks at the net, throwing pucks in the net. And then all of a sudden, Boldie's got the puck and it's in the back of the net. He has just converted every single time you give him a chance. And I think that that puts so much pressure on the Vegas defense of like we can't give up anything. Like any little mistake when those two are on the ice and it's a goal against.

He has been so good. Like you mentioned, he's winning battles behind the net. That line has forechecked. And like Bruce Cassidy the other day, we were talking to him about Caprisov. And that was one of the things he mentioned was he's a second. a second effort player. Like it's not just, he doesn't just fly in the zone and take a shot.

And then that's kind of hit, let me wheel back out and reload. No, he, he chases the puck down. You think you've stopped him. And all of a sudden, he's still pushing.

And I think Boldie is just following in that. Like, I think he's, you see a similar, like dog chasing a car on that puck from both those players. And when you get that kind of mentality with the skill that those two have, it's an absolute nightmare to play against. I think it's a positioning thing.

He's not the best skater. but he finds, he finds his way to the right areas of the ice. Whether it's the obvious one, right, you want them around the goal mouth when there's, to clean up a rebound or whatever, even defensively off the puck, like he's in the right spot to slow things down.

I've been extremely impressed by him. What's your confidence level in this series? I know you said it's hard to pick any of them. This was the one I thought would be the shortest series. Maybe, you know, Montreal, Washington, in the east. Montreal's been really impressive, too. I'm sure we'll get there. I thought this would be a five gamer.

and it's been excellent. I think for Minnesota to make it a 2-2 series, I'm still inclined to think Vegas is the team that's been there, done that they find a way to do this, especially obviously going back to Vegas now, but where's your confidence level in the Golden Knights here? Yeah, here's what I would say. Minnesota has played great,

and like Ryan Hartman's been awesome. Obviously, Boldie and Caprisoff have been brilliant. They're playing their best hockey. And the Golden Knights best players have not been very, good. Like Mark Stone came alive a little bit these last two games. Jack Eichol, a little bit of life, but they haven't been there. The Goldenite's defense, which is like the strength of this team, has turned the puck over at an insane rate. So to me, it's like, if you look at it, it's like, well, Minnesota's played their best and Vegas has played their worst, and it's two, two.

That doesn't feel great if you're the wild. It's like, it doesn't bode well unless you just keep playing your best. And Vegas never finds its game. So to me, it's, I think I would favor Vegas slightly just because they haven't played well and they're still tied. But that doesn't guarantee that you're just because you're tied and you haven't played well, doesn't guarantee you're going to start playing well. Maybe Minnesota's just built to give this team problems. So I think it's going to be close. I think it probably goes seven games.

If I had to pick a team, I would take Vegas. But I think it's a toss up. When I saw Minnesota up after two last game, I went, okay, this is put the nail in the coffee. This is the hardest thing to do in hockey. So I say it like it's simple. You have to have the killer instinct to grind out that last period. Take it to 3-1. And then you just need one out of three, right?

Like that's what you have to be able to do. That's where I thought Vegas has been there, done that, showed up. And now we'll see where it goes. It's not over for the wild. I just thought that was an amazing chance to grab a chokehold on the series. We actually have a crisis line here, though. And I think it's a Vegas fan. So let's see what the Vegas fans are saying.

Hi, Matthew, Vegas fan from Canada. I didn't expect to be calling in this early. I picked Vegas to go to the final against the Leaf. And now it's looking like they ran into an absolute buzzsaw in Minnesota. What's it going to take to get Vegas going? And are they even a better team against what looks like the Minnesota team from the beginning of the year? Thanks, guys, keep up the awesome work. He makes a great point that Minnesota is a seven seed and they weren't great in the second half of the year.

And I think that's what we think of Minnesota. And that's kind of our perception going into this series. But it's wrong. Like this team early in the year, weren't they like right up there with Winnipeg for the best record in the NHL? And they were on fire. And Caprisov, I remember looking at our, like we do our athletic predictions where they poll over all the writers and we have to pick like a heart and all these winners. And I was looking back. And in December, 69% of us picked Caril Caprisoff to win the heart trophy.

Like he was the best player by a pretty big margin. in the NHL. And I think that the way the Wilde tapered off down the end of the season without him in the lineup and without Eric Seneck in the lineup, we kind of forgot how good they were at the beginning of the year. And I also think that years and years and years of the Wild being the team that's good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to do anything there. We also kind of put that on them.

We forget how good this team was to start the year and how dangerous they are with those two guys in the lineup. So this is not a typical seven seed team that isn't. I think the Wild, like if they get past Vegas, they have a chance to make a deep run. They've got the talent and they've shown for stretches this year that when they're healthy, they're one of the better teams in the league. I think we have done our part to give full credit to the Wild's effort here. But the part of his question that I think probably is valid is, what is it going to take for Vegas to find their group?

Because as good as Minnesota has been forcing the issue, I wouldn't say Vegas has looked quite as vagusy as we've seen them look in past playoffs. Is that fair? Yeah, and it's Jack Eichol. To me, Jack Eichel is everything for this team. He had the best season of his career this year. He shattered his career high for points, the Vegas franchise record for points. And he is their number one penalty killer. He is a defensive presence.

To me, Jack Eichael is one of the most complete players in the NHL. And we've seen him do it in the playoffs. In 22, 23, when Vegas won the cup, like Eichel was the dude. All like Jonathan Marshall so won the Khan Smithe because he scored all the goals. But Eichel literally set them on a tee for him every single one of those goals. Like, it was all Jack Eichel. and now suddenly he just hasn't looked the same. Like there isn't that same explosive first step.

He hasn't. When the puck's on his stick, he's not getting it into dangerous areas nearly as often. And I don't know, like partial part of that's credit to Minnesota for the way they're defending him. They're staying above him. They are not a lot. Like, you can count how many odd man rushes the Golden Knights have had like on one hand in the whole series. And I don't know if they've had any with Jack Eichel on the ice. Minnesota has a incredible commitment to have three guys.

back at all time, stay above the puck, do not allow Jack Eichel to get out in space. I don't know how Vegas can force that. Like if the team's going to sit back like that, there's not much you can do. I don't like, this is a tough spot for Bruce Cassidy. He's a brilliant coach. He's been amazing in Vegas. He has to find a way to find Jack Eichael some space so that he can be the difference maker because to me, when you say they haven't looked as Vegasy, they haven't. And it's, to me, it's Jack Eichael. When Jack Eichael gets going, this team is a legitimate Stanley Cup contender. until then it's going to be a grind to get past the wild. And remember that if you want to leave a crisis line message,

I think that was a great one. That number is 321, 2-2-2-2-9-72. 3-21-22-22-7-9-7-2 if you want to leave us a voicemail. It's a quick break right there. We're going to come back and talk about the East. All right, we're back. Jesse, let's go now to the East where, you know, I think the series we all wanted to be the top billing one has been

the games have not been, I would say, as much as we want, but the series has been exciting, mostly for the coaches sniping at each other. We're going to get game four of Lightning Panthers tonight. And I wanted to gut check you here because our friends at BetMGM, the official betting partner of the Athletic, have the Lightning now plus 220, the Panthers minus 275 to win this series. It was a commanding start for the Panthers, certainly, go up 2-0. Lightning punch back. It's 2-1.

these games are going to be, this next game is going to be in Florida. So that's a good situation for the Panthers. But is it minus 275 good? I mean, I disagree vehemently with those odds. That probably tells you more about my opinions than anything. But I like I picked Tampa to win it all.

Same. I think that's team in hockey. And I still feel pretty good about that. Early on, Vasilevsky had a nightmare of a start. But in the last two games since then, he's been great, especially that last last.

game. I just think that this team has so much star power and when Vaselovsky's playing well, which he is now, they're tough to be. And I think that the Panthers, again, this is similar to the Oilers. Like they looked banged up coming in. We kind of didn't expect them to be as good as they had been. And suddenly these players that haven't looked themselves lately are starting to look themselves now at the playoffs are here. So maybe I'm not giving Florida enough credit. I just thought that after two back-to-back runs to the cup final. This was going to be a beaten down tired team versus a hungry team in the lightning that hadn't gone on a run in a while. So I still feel good about the lightning, even being down to one, even still having to play this game in Florida. But it's a tough series.

I mean, these two teams are so evenly matched. What's your take on the Hagle, Barkov, Kach, Gensel, kind of how that was all been handled so far by the NHL? Yeah, I mean, their explanation makes sense in both cases for why they suspended Hegel and why they didn't suspend Kachuk. I sent a tweet out and people were kind of arguing with me. That was a dirty hit by Matthew Kachuk. And I love Matthew Kachuk. And I'm generally on his side on things. Like I think he plays clean hockey that's annoying.

Like he kind of does a good job of right up to that line of what is dirty and what isn't. That was a dirty hit. And people are like, oh, play it in fast motion. Don't play it. When you play it in real time, to me, it looks even dirtier. because you can see how much time there was. These guys are incredible athletes with ridiculous hand-eye and reaction time. It felt like an eternity from when he let go of that puck to win Kachuk hit him.

That was a dirty, nasty hit that does not belong in hockey. But I understand why they didn't suspend him. It wasn't to the head. It wasn't a bone-crushing hit. So like I said, I get it. I thought it was dirty. I thought it was cheap. It deserved a penalty for sure.

but I get why they didn't suspend him and to me that makes sense. Yeah, what's funny is of the two, Kachucks is way more like purposeful. Like I'm trying to throw a late hit here to make a point versus the other way. I think Hagle legitimately expected Barkov to win that race and was lining him up to finish a check.

That was probably going to be late and probably was still going to be a penalty. But because he never touched the puck, you get the suspension. Versus Gensel, it's very late. It's very on purpose. But because he did touch the puck, you're kind of bailed out. So I actually, I don't have a big problem with how it's been handled.

I can completely get why lightning fans would be furious about it. Totally makes sense. And like I said, I think the intent factor would go more in Hagel's favor than it would in Kachukes. But certainly the fact that the head got in there, I think is a big differentiator. It's great theater. Right now we get the coaches sniping at each other and mocking each other. And I think that's what we all want out of a series like this. My only ask is, please let the rest of these games be a little bit tighter because

for all the theatrics, I don't want to see, you know, any more five to one here. I want these going down to the wire, taking it to overtime. It doesn't have to be, you know, Oilers, Kings, but a little bit of stars, Avs flavor would be, would be welcomed here. Let's go to the next one. And that's, let's go to the game that was last night. Washington, Montreal. This one gets a little lopsided in the final score, but it was a close game.

Like, you attack a couple empty netters on for the capitals. Montreal led this game going into the third period. I think the habs have already surpassed what my expectations were for them going into this series. Yeah, for sure. And to me, that's the story. Like, I don't think the habs are going to win this series, but I think that this is a, I think that we could look back on this series next year or the year after and say, that was a big moment for this young group of players to get a taste of playoff hockey,

to show that goal they scored last night with the three kids all combining Hudson and Slavkovsky finishes it off from Demadov and the Bell Center just erupting and like those kids like they're all under 25 years old like all celebrating what a cool moment for hockey for that building to have those kids score that goal. I don't think they quite have what it like they're not quite ready to to beat Washington or go on this run but they're putting up a great fight. They're showing what they can do at this time of year. And I think that like I said, I think we're going to look back at this and say that was this like this group is going to go on to do better things at some point I think. Obviously, they're very, very early in their careers.

And I think that this is a big step for them to kind of get a taste of what this playoff hockey's like. I don't think anyone in Montreal wants to start hearing silver linings right now. Like those, they probably want to hold off on those until they're necessary. But I'll say this. Like, when you are a young player, there's no way to replicate the situations that they've already been put in here, to know how to, you know, be trail in a game, trail in a series and fight your way back in. There's a real world where they win that game last night, you know, find a way to close it out. and it's 2-2.

They don't manage to do it, but now they've been in that spot of how hard it is to close out a third period. Just as we talked about with Minnesota, Vegas, right? Like, these are sometimes the differentiators for what allows you to make a deep run versus what ends your season early.

How many times have we seen this with the Toronto Maple Leafs, right? They have a lead in a series. Can you close it out? Can you put that final nail in the coffin? So I think it's a great spot for them to be in. I know nobody in Montreal wants to hear that quite yet. But, and to your point,

the fact that it's been their young guys driving the bus is huge. So to me, there's almost a no-lose situation here for the Habs, which I know is kind of a silly thing to say in the playoffs. But when you consider how they came in, that's how it feels to me, at least from the outside. And losing Montembo, like he is, he was stud back there. And Jakub Dobish is a good player and he played well. He made some big saves. He also, the first goal of that game was, oh, boy, was that a bad goal to give up? My goodness, the defenseman tied the puck up and it slid to him.

And I feel like I was watching the play in slow motion. And the puck was just sliding to him and sliding. And I'm like, is he going to cover it? Is he going to cover it? No. Okay. It's getting to him. Is he going to stick it into the corner?

No, he's just going to watch it. It hit off his pad. And now he's still watching it. And the puck's just sitting there. It felt like for an eternity. And they put it in the net. That's a rookie goalie at the bell center with the what feels like the world is caving in on you. It was a big mistake that Sam Montembo wouldn't have made.

And I think that with Montembo and net, they probably win yesterday's game. I think I think the Canadians would have won that game. And I think I would give them. a better chance at winning this series. The fact that he's out is really why I'm kind of handing this over to the capitals up 3-1 is that guy has been so important to them this year. And without him, it's going to be tough. I'll say this. I've been more impressed by Montreal so far trailing 3-1 in their series than I have by the New Jersey Devils in the exact same position where it feels almost the opposite. It feels like the only reason that this was not a sweep is because

of how good New Jersey's goaltending had been. Yeah, Markstrom's been awesome. He has the highest save percentage on high danger chances in the NHL. That was before yesterday's game, so I'd have to check it. But I think it was 24 of 25. He's got like a 960 save percentage. And just for context, like anything over 800 is brilliant from high danger saves. Like 800 is like the league average.

And he's at nine, like the high 900s. He's been so good. Like his lateral movement is phenomenal for such. a big guy. He does let a lot of rebounds go. So, like, he's made some amazing saves, which then end up being a goal because he slid like four feet out of his crease. I will say that. He's a wild guy, but man, he's made some big saves. It's just the devils are just, they're just so injured and like they're missing so much star power. I just don't see how they can, they just don't have it right now. And that's what it is, right? I'm not saying to take a pacha

out the devils. I know they're without Jack Hughes. I know their blue line is about as banged up as you can have a play. Like, they came in with one of the deeper blue lines in the league at midseason. I was looking at this thing. This is a huge strength. And it's just been carved. And against a team like Carolina that is so relentless, they are going to pressure your D all game long, both on the forecheck and just to how much zone time they seem to amass.

It's a hard ask. And I've been impressed by how Carolina has done it. I actually have started to wonder, man, is this Carolina's year that, you know, in a east that looks like the metro path gets you intact. to that conference final. I'm starting to wonder, is this Carolina's year? Yeah, it's like you said, it's that side of the bracket looks a lot softer. And maybe you get whoever comes out of that battle between Florida and Toronto.

They're going to have gone through it by the time they get through there. So maybe you're feeling good. I mean, the Freddie Anderson question is a big one. Piotr Kachetkoff played well in the game the other day. But I think that if Caroline's going to make a deep run, they're going to need Freddie Anderson back and at his best. And we've seen that that's tough to get for long stretches. So that's still a question mark for them. I do, like I said, I thought Kachetkoff played well.

But to me, the biggest question for that team is, is what's going to happen in net? And it will remain that. I mean, that's going to be, that's going to be the defense. It's kind of, it's not Edmonton because there's such different constructs, but it is still that team that you're just kind of wonder, will they get the goaltending? And in this case, it's more about health than it is about George Skinner and Calvin Pickard and all that. But it's still a real question. So let's go to the last series in the East.

I think we've set a new record on the athletic hockey show. I think we've made it an hour now, maybe not quite, but close to an hour without talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs. To me, I mean, Ottawa's put up a good fight here, but Toronto just finally looks like that team that knows how to close it out in the playoffs. That will be tested here, right? I mean, it was 3-0 and Ottawa was still standing here alive. We're going to see right now, are they ready to put the nail in the coffin? but I do think they've looked like the more poised been here before team, which I think is refreshing to say about the Toronto Maple Leafs.

For sure. I can imagine people in Toronto hearing you say, they look like they're finally ready to close the series out. And they're like, wait a minute, we just lost a game. It's 3-1. If Ottawa wins the next game, it is going to be nervous in this city. They certainly do not feel that way. I can promise you.

But I agree with you. It's the way they play hockey. This isn't a team that's relying on its stars to score. score a bunch of goals every night. They play good defense. They play North-South hockey that Barube's got him playing. They have, they're getting the goal tending. Anthony Stolars has been a stud. And man, when a guy that big is, is feeling it and is in position the way he is in the series, it's a hopeless feeling for shooters. It reminds me of Robin Lennar when he was like at his best, when he was like a Vez and a finalist for the Islanders. When you get a goalie that is that big,

that takes up that much space and he's in position the whole game, As a shooter, not only do you not score, you never see the net. Like, you never get a chance where you look up and you see some net to shoot at. It's just every time you look up, it's just this gigantic human in your face. And he's so aggressive and like the, just his, his body language, everything about him is like terrifying. You do not want to go anywhere near the crease or he might kill you. Especially when he has a get out of jail free card to do it. Like he's done it.

It's on video. And everyone's like, yeah, I guess, I guess he's allowed to do it. He's allowed to hit actually. Yeah. This Toronto team feels so different. And does that mean they're going to go on the deep run that we've all wanted them to or that everybody's expected them to for so long? Maybe not.

But I will say this feels like a very different team. And I think it starts in net and Stolars is just he's been so steady back there. He's feeling it that team's playing good defense. And they're playing playoff hockey. The biggest haters of the hockey world are no doubt just having a field day clipping us right now. Stockpiling for their inevitable collapse. And I get, like, Ottawa's taking these last three games to overtime. I am not saying this has been dominant commanding.

It's just this is the kind of games that you feel like the Leafs lose. They found a way to win at least two of the three of them. But you're right. It's game five Tuesday night. It's in Toronto. I said this on another podcast. Close the deal now. Do not let this go back to Ottawa, three, two, and wake up those demons.

You go back to your home building and obviously we know anything can happen in a game seven. Get it done Tuesday night. And you'll have earned your plot. It'll be your most convincing, your most impressive series win, you know, of this generation, that will be worth something. But you're right. And there's a hard path after it, too. So it doesn't necessarily mean that everything's solved. But I've been impressed by Toronto so far.

Yeah. And that's honestly, that's what's so great about the playoffs is these seven game series. Like you look at it from afar. It's like seven games. Okay. One game isn't that big a deal. Like it's going to take four. But it actually, like the feeling in a series switches.

so fast. Like it can go from feeling like you're in control to we're in trouble in the blink of an eye. Like it can happen so. If Ottawa scores on the first shift of this next game, this series will feel completely different. Absolutely. Everyone on both sides will completely feel different about it. So that's what makes it great. I can't wait to see what happens. And of course, Sean McIndoo on our Wednesday show, perfect to have that game. Yes. One way or another, it'll be a good time. That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Fletakaki show, please leave us a rating and a review, preferably five stars if you're enjoying the show. And of course, if you want to leave us a playoff crisis line message, that number again

to call is 321-22-7-9-72. Sorry we didn't get to all of them today, but we'll obviously get to some more as the week goes on. Sean, other Sean and Frankie Carrado are back on Wednesday. Talk to you soon.