The Athletic Hockey Show - Which teams to watch as NHL free agency approaches

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

The NHL season is over, but the action is just picking up with the NHL Draft set to begin Friday night and the opening of free agency quickly approaching next week. The Athletic’s NHL insider Pierre LeBrun joins the show to discuss all the latest on pending free agents like Sam Bennett, Mitch Marner and John Tavares, the trade market for guys like Jason Robertson and Rasmus Andersson, Johnathan Toews’ deal with his hometown Jets, and more. Plus, The Athletic’s own Jesse Granger talks about John Gibson and the goalie trade market and Laz and Jesse compete in a little game of “Is This a Real NHL Prospect?” to close out the show.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Pierre LeBrun and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Bolbin here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of the athletic hockey show. Jesse Granger are going to join us a little bit later. But first, we are thrilled to be joined by the Athletics NHIL insider Pierre Lebrun. Pierre, I know you're still probably coming down from the Stanley Cup final. But it's rumbling season now and we've got to get to some player movement. And the first of those dominoes happening with Jonathan Taves going to the Winnipeg Jets. Yeah.

Not surprising. As soon as TAY started to hint last year, including in a terrific interview with Laz that he was probably coming back and then made it official, May 29th, telling his agent Paperson to start actually negotiating with teams. Winnipeg was always a frontrunner.

It was always a question of whether another team could convince him to go somewhere else. And Colorado gave it their pretty good college try. I mean, the avalanche got to have a, the front office got to have a direct conversation with Jonathan Tays. They sold, tried to sell him on what they were about. And obviously, they're a contending team. They felt they had a really good role for him on that team. But at the end of the day, and there were listed 15 teams that spoke to Papperson about Jonathan Tays,

including the like of the Leafs and the Havs and others. but it really felt like Winnebaker Colorado at the end, and in the end it's his hometown Jets, which is a neat story. Neat not only because of the fact that you grew up there, but because the Jets don't get to win these battles very often when it comes to prominent names and prominent free agents. And listen, there's no guarantees here with a 37-year-old who will not have played

for two and a half years in the NHL by the time the buck drops next fall. But it's a pretty neat story that Winnipeg ends up with them, and I thought they did a great job. announcing it and giving it all the pizzazz that it deserves. I was surprised by the magnitude of the contract. I thought he would sign like a $1 million deal with like a million dollars in potential bonuses. I mean, this could be a $7 million deal if he hits caps, I believe. And when he first told me that he was coming back, I'm thinking PTO.

Like who's going to take a chance on a 37 year old who hasn't played in two years? And let's face it, was not his old self at the end. He was out of shape. He was struggling to keep his weight off because of all the things he's dealing with. And I hope nothing, but I hope it works out. I expect it to work out. But I was surprised how aggressive some of these teams were. Yeah.

And again, I think it speaks to how bullish the market was. Like I said, 15 teams. You know, the fact of the matter is, though, the base is two million. So, you know, if his body doesn't cooperate, you know, the jets are protected that some of the bonuses, you know, won't be met. So, I mean, it's, you know, I look at it as $2 million and then we'll see how many games he plays. Hopefully it goes great. You know, I share the same concern you do. But I can tell you this.

I think Colorado's offer actually had a higher base than went big. So, you know, it just goes to tell you that this was very much about days following his heart, I think, in the end, because I think he was getting this type of deal or variance of it almost anywhere he signed. So it wasn't about the money, that's for sure. I do think it's interesting that the bonuses are really centered strongly around games played, right? There's not a lot of production incentives. It's just, are you healthy, basically? And that's really the story here.

Like, if he plays 82 games, we'll know that this was a success regardless of his offensive output. I mean, if he's playing, that means that he's making a difference. So, yeah, it'll be interesting to see where it goes. And it's only a one-year commitment, obviously, which is as much about what he wanted as much as the teams involved. What's your sense about how Winnipeg per season? Did they see him as like a 3C or do they think he could climb up to be the number two center?

Yeah, I mean, listen, they have one of the best third line centers in the league and Adam Lowry. Yeah. We'll begin the season on the shelf, right? So when that Laurie is back and healthy, I think they hope Taze is the second line center. But they, you know, I have a quote there from Kevin Sheld Day off in my piece over the weekend. They're not starting the season saying, here's where you are. they want Taze to gradually work his way into whatever's comfortable.

So they're really trying not to put that kind of burden on him from the outset. But the reality is that's where the true hole is in their lineup. Because while you can play Adam Lurie up in your lineup, I think where he's the premier luxury item is as the third line center when he's healthy for the Winnipeg Jets. Well, speaking of second line centers in Canadian markets here, I'm fascinated that we have not yet seen John Tavares deal in Toronto, right? I mean, obviously the T leaves on Mitch Marner have been lean in one way, right?

But Tavares seems like the guy they can't let get away. And maybe it's the money. I mean, if I guess if Jonathan Taves is getting a bonus laden deal up to seven, if Brock Nelson's getting seven plus, that probably makes it tough for Toronto to get away with any less than that. But can you really see this going any other way than Tavaris and the Leafs staying together? So Brad Touliving was on our podcast right now. He'd say, yeah, what about Matthew Spain at $4.5 million though, buddy?

Yeah. I mean, didn't mention that contract. Yeah, listen, that's why I had an item on it in my rumblings over the weekend because it's not done yet. And it's as of Saturday night when I last checked on it, it wasn't close to being done, which, you know, doesn't mean it won't get done today or tomorrow or June 30th on the eve of July 1st. The player, John Tavares, does not want to leave Toronto. It's his home. He's going to retire here. He's raising a family here.

and the least want him back, but they want him back at a decent rate because they got other things they're trying to do. And so this is a fascinating situation to me because, you know, normally, I think a year ago, people thought that Tavares would be coming off as this big, his big contract. And, you know, is he now a third line center? And then it would have been an easy resigning. Instead, he goes out at his age and puts up 38 goals and 74 points. And it's like, wait a minute. Those guys don't come for $4 million. So, yeah, it's finding that sweet spot.

And it's an interesting, you know, an interesting situation leading up to July 1st because you know the player doesn't want to leave, but you also know that, you know, there's a certain number there that makes it work. You mentioned the Duchenne contract. This is a guy who's had over 80 points twice in the last four years. He's obviously worth more than 4.5 on the open market.

He wanted to stay. Dallas was tight against the cap. He did what he had to do to stay. Does that kind of contract bother people around the league, like other agents and players? Like he should, you know, you always want guys setting the bar in theory and raising the salaries. That sets a dangerous precedent if you're another UFA center in your early 30s coming off a big season. But like Max said, thank goodness for Brock Nelson that way. So, you know, it all sort of uses it.

You know, listen, I actually was talking about the Dushain deal with another GM this morning. And, you know, what he pointed out is exactly what the way I looked at is that that's, that's about a player wanting to win a cup and wanting to stay in Dallas and be part of it. Of course, his number is different next week on July 1st if he goes to market. It's his numbers probably six to six and a half million a year. Now, let's not discount the fact that while the A.V is a real bargain for Dallas, he did get four years at the age of 34. when you look at the totality of the contract, like I think a lot of teams probably would have wanted to go three times six and a half next week, whether or not they would have gone the four. So don't forget the fourth year, I guess, is what I would say. That's the way for Dallas to navigate around that and bring the number down.

And by the way, that brings us back to Tavares, because I think that's the interesting part of the Tavares conversation is that sure, you know, even though his numbers suggest he should be a $6 to $7 million player. would he take less? I think he would if the term is tacked on because then again, you're getting into the total dollars as opposed to just worrying about the AAB. That's what these conversations are about.

I think the lease will end up getting Tavares done. They need each other too much. But it's interesting. And by the way, Claudea hasn't resigned in Ottawa yet. And Ottawa is his home. And he doesn't want to leave. And is Ottawa using that against him?

And they want to keep him. but what's the sweet spot there. So another interesting situation as we get closer to July 1st. Well, and with Duchenne in particular, I always think about with guys who have been somewhere else and it hasn't worked. Like, Matt Dushan got bought out in Nashville. So for a guy like that, if I'm him, I'm sticking in the situation that I feel very comfortable, that I know how things are going to go, that I feel really valued, whether it's reflected in the paycheck or not, right? And you can apply that to Sam Bennett too, right?

Sam Bennett was in Calgary and things didn't go that well. He goes to Florida. Heck yeah, I'd take a haircut to stay in Florida. If I'm Sam Bennett, look how well it works. We'll see if he does. So I don't want to make headlines here. I'm just going to tell you that I have no idea how this totally ends up. I understand his beer-infused declarations to fans over the last few days.

He basically said the same on the ice to us after winning the cup. That Panthers, teammates are his brothers, and this is the app, this has ever been. That is all genuine to me. I'm not discounting what he's saying publicly. What I'm telling you is up behind the scenes, he has an agent in Darren Ferris, who drives a hard bargain. And even though we all accept the fact that if he's staying, it's on a bargain and that it's a lot less than what he would get next week

on the open market, I'm not convinced his agent is there in that conversation with Florida. So I'm not ready to predict that one. I'm telling you, I know the player wants to stay. Bill Zito, it's priority number one to get Bennett resign, but there's Darren Ferris, the agent in the middle of it all. So I'm not ready to declare that one. Is it fair to say, though, that what we in the public might call like a haircut or a discount today still might be what someone would have raised their eyebrows at for Sam Bennett three months ago?

Because I remember having conversations at the start of this off season that was like, you know, I thought Bennett would be a great fit in Detroit. I'm talking to people about that. Like, yeah, but can you pay him seven to half, eight million dollars? I was like, yeah, you're straining. Now that feels like what the Florida discount would be. Exactly, right? So if it sounds for eight in Florida, that's still going to be a deal that we would have looked back

and have been like, great job in April. I mean, one of the things I still love about hockey is that, I think more than any other sport, although I'm not qualified to, you know, diagnose contracts from other sports the same way, but you get paid a lot on your playoff rep in hockey.

He just won the cons with 15 goals, 13 of them on the road. He should get paid. I mean, that's what you want is a guy who plays his, best hockey at that time of year where it's harder to score, where it's harder to create room on the ice. Sam Bennett is a playoff warrior. Now, I have the same concerns everyone else has, is that what you love about Sam Bennett is what gives you concern five years into this deal,

which is that he's a warrior, and does his body start to break down? I mean, those are all legitimate concerns, but at the end of the day, whether it's Florida resigning him, which I think ends up being what happens, but I'm not ready to guarantee that. If he goes to a team that feels that Sam Bennett is one of their final pieces to put them over the hump, they don't care about the last two, three years of that deal. They're just trying to get over the hump now in the next couple of years, and San Bennett would be worth it in that tight window. But, you know, I said this to a team the other day, I said, if you're signing Sam Bennett

and this team won't, but what the GM needs to do on July 1st, if he ends up with Sam Bennett, is sell his media and his marketplace right away in the idea that Sam Bennett may not score more than 50 points next year, but wait until we get the playoff time. You better be messaging that hard and early on July 1st with your local market. We talked about that on this show. You're not signing Sam Bennett for the 82 games between October and mid-April. You're signing him for the 25 games you play from April on, and that's the whole contract. Yeah, absolutely. So two years ago at the draft, you know, they had the back when we had a centralized draft,

all the awards, guys eligible for awards would come and they'd do a media session. And I was talking to Connor McDavid. And I asked them, why don't more of you guys at your level take short-term contracts? Why don't you do what NBA guys do? Take two or three-year deals. Cap keeps going up. You keep getting paid more. You maximize your value.

You bet on yourself. And he had, he's like, you know, we just want stability. And, you know, it's just not the way we're wired. And, you know, I talked to, uh, Kail McCar said the same thing. Eric Carlson said the same thing. They all say this. You know, James Myrtle had a story just the over the weekend that maybe we're getting closer to that happening. Are Mitch

Marner and Connor McDavid test cases for this? Like, you know, when Matthews signed for what, four years, we all freaked out. I want to see two year deals. Is there any chance those guys signed two or three year deals? So, and I think I've been kind of radioed by what I wrote about Marner and my rumblings over

the weekend. I want to be clear in the way I presented that info. I have not confirmed in any way from Marner's camp that they would be willing to do a two year deal. What I reported is that I've heard from other teams who have all told, me, they think that's on the table. So that's from other teams. It's important to note that unless I hear it from there in Ferris himself, then I still don't know whether that how real

that is. I think what's happening is they're probably looking at everything. That's my sense. And that a two or three year deal, if it makes sense on a contender and then you reenter the market where you're still young enough, sure. I think the more likely scenario with Marner is that he wants to settle this once and for all wherever he ends up. So I still think it's probably a long-term deal for Marner. It's just interesting to hear other teams talk about that as a possibility, depending on what his fit is. Because I think the hardest thing for Marner, who's going to make money no matter what,

but I think that some of the teams on his list are, of course, are of course, the teams with less cap room than other teams. So, you know, it's the yin and the yang of it all is that the best teams in the league I already have a lot of good players. So, you know, whether he ends up in, you know, Vegas or L.A., as like I mentioned, I think Dallas is a team of interest to Barner. What I don't know is how serious Dallas is willing to get into that conversation, even though I'm sure they love Mitch Marner because they've already committed to Ratton

and they've got other things going on. Maybe they're interested in Rosmiss Anderson on the back end. So, you know, there's a lot to play out there. Where I think it's more tangible probably is with McDavid. to your point. And maybe you planted the idea with him and then it stuck with him and it's subconscious. But sorry, Edmonton. But as I wrote and Chris Johnson has as well, I don't think he's doing an eight-year extension if he signs with Emmington in the summer. I think it'll be less than that. His agent is Jed Moldaber, who did the Austin Matthews four-year extension. He's a

younger agent that thinks a little differently about things than a lot of the veteran agents around the league and I think that he would probably sell that on Connor McDavid that, you know, why don't you do three years or four years? And then you're still the best player in the world in three years. Don't worry about it. There's two drawbacks. One is what you said, like a lot of players love security and not dealing with this crap again. But the other is injury. And obviously you get insurance and you try to insure, you know, as much as you can against all that. But that's the other side of it. I would not be surprised if McDavid does. us extend with the Oilers, I wouldn't be surprised

if it's more in the mid-range as opposed to Maxter. You know, it's interesting. I talked to a GM when I was doing that story, and he told me how he basically said that players are dumb. He says they're always worried about injury. But if you look at hockey injuries, they're almost all injuries you recover 100%

from. It's not like you're a baseball pitcher and your elbow blows out and you never know what you're going to be like again. Hockey injuries are broken bones. They're torn muscles. They're things that heal and you come back the same as you left. And he thinks that players are selling themselves short because they're so worried about injuries. And it's just really fascinating to see this is someone on the younger side and

executive. And I think you're right. I think there is almost like a generational divide here in people who see security versus maximizing your value. And listen, the flip, just to play devil's advocate. I agree with everything you're saying. What devil's advocate is Nicholas Baxter of the Washington Capitals who right before COVID hit signs that long term extension a year ahead of time.

Thank goodness for him he did financially because he never recovered from his. hip resurfacing surgery and but got paid handsomely despite that. I always cheer for those stories for players. But that's going the old school route for him, save them. And he just done a one or two year extension. He's a great example of where that would have cost them. All right. Last thing before we let you go, Pierre, I do want to talk a little bit about the trade market.

We saw it heat up late last week. I mean, Dallas in making the pieces work for the Duchenne deal has to trade away Mason Marchment. You talked about them potentially with Rasmus Anderson. That's interesting. Any other players or teams you're watching really closely as we set up for free agency? Yeah, I mean, sticking with Dallas, I mean, there is, it's not just noise and smoke there on Jason Robertson. You know, as I wrote this weekend, I think the priority for them is to extend them and keep him.

But in getting in those extension conversations with CAA who reps Robertson, if they don't like what they hear, there's a reason why they're taking calls on him right now. They're trying to educate themselves exactly on what the trade market is for Jason Robertson in the event. They have to go down that route this summer. And when I say this summer, I think it's very much, I think they're going to be patient on that file and not rush under anything over the next week here when it comes to Robertson. Again, I think they'd rather keep them and sign them. But if they get a sense that that number is too crazy, it could be interesting there on that front.

And so TBD when it comes to Robertson, yeah, listen, I mean, Buffalo is an action team, you know, between Petirca and Byram, lots of calls there. Let's see where that goes. You know, I kind of wonder about Calgary and Buffalo being decent trade partners potentially. So, yeah, you know, Calgary got bad news when they realized that what they thought was a fair extension for Anderson right now doesn't seem to be. real. So they are listening on a player they were hoping to keep and a really good top four right-hand shot defenseman and there's lots of interest in him. It's really incredible how you talk about, oh, maybe Marner to Vegas, maybe Jason Robertson re-signs in Dallas. There's no money. It's somehow these teams are somehow able to make the money appear. It's always kind of incredible.

Like the things like, oh, you got to look at a Carolina or you got to look at a Chicago, you got to look at L.A. And then these teams that have no money somehow always seem to make it work. It's incredible. Because the players want to be there is number one. but you know like meiko rantin and ends up signing an extension with dallas said he rejected in carolina exactly yeah in fact you rejected 12 and a half in carolina and signed for 12 and in dollar sorry signed for i don't know what he's 12 yeah yeah so so it's not always about you know we say not about the money these are big contracts but the end of the day that was more about ranting and picking a place you want to play it and that's how it is for all these top guys so um yeah it's gonna be

but if I leave you with a final thought on all this is from talking the teams over the last three, four days, is that while I think the next 10 days will be busy as normal, this is a traditional window or because of the first round on Friday, first round picks may be part of deals. So it forces a deadline, forces decisions and trades. This might be an offseason like no other in recent times where some teams may need the entire summer to figure stuff up. Or because there are so many buyers on this market and few seasons, sellers. Pittsburgh's the only seller of note. You know, Chicago just did some buying this weekend. San Jose wants to

like, no, teams that have been selling the last few years have nothing else to sell. And so you got the bottom teams, the middle teams and the contenders all trying to buy at the same time, which is shaping up to be the strangest offseason ever. But because of that, I think it's going to require a little more finesse among some teams who need to find fits with each other where they help each other out, which I think will present some middle of August out of nowhere trades. You better make sure the Wi-Fi up at the cottage is working. No, I'm happy to ignore it, is what I'm saying.

But what I'm saying, I don't think everyone's going to get all their business done in the next 10 days. I think this is going to need a lot of patience heading right into training camp in terms of some moves around the league. All right, he is NHL insider, Pierre LeBron, and he's going to be very busy in the next 10 days, regardless how busy the trade action is. Thanks so much for coming out with us, Pierre. See, guys. All right, we are back. And, oh, Las, do me a favor. Slide a little to the left.

A little more. Yeah, now we're in the Granger zone. Welcome to the Granger Zone. You know, every time we run that, I'm shocked at how long it lasts. It goes on forever. I actually have that playing in my house. Every time I walk into a room, that song plays. Amazing.

Well, we are now joined by Jesse Granger of The Athletic. And Jesse, we were just talking to Pierre before you came on about some of the player movement that we have seen and some that we could see over the next week or so. And we want to talk to you about the goalie market because as fun as the next week or two can be in the NHL, it's a pretty barren free agent market for goalies. And I wonder, I mean, obviously the only other solution there is really a big splashy trade. But how do you kind of handicap the goalie market right now, whether it be free agency or trade? Yeah, it's interesting.

It's something that these GMs have been planning for for a while. Like if you go back and look at the in-season goalie moves, it all started with, Igor Shostarkin getting his big contract for the Rangers, but the avalanche trade for Mackenzie Blackwood and immediately signing to a long-term deal. And I think when it happened, everyone kind of was like, whoa, that was like they barely even saw him in net and they're signing him to a max extension. They were anticipating that there was going to be absolutely nothing. You see all of the pending free agents, including Vegas's Aden Hill, everyone, Karel Vermelka in Utah, they all signed their long-term deals. And that leaves you with a free agent class that,

is headlined by Jake Allen, which Jake Allen, super great guy to have around. He's a great backup goalie. When your goalie gets hurt, he can play great for a month or so. We saw that in New Jersey last year, but he's not going to upgrade anyone's starting position. So if you're in a spot like, I don't know, say Edmonton, where you're looking to upgrade at goal. And whether that's, I'm not saying they're going to replace Stuart Skinner, but I definitely think they're looking to upgrade over Calvin Pickard, who's also a pending free agent. and give Skinner some more competition and possibly get someone who can be better,

you're almost going to have to go to trade. It's the only real option. And the easy name is the name that we've been bringing up for, I don't know, it feels like six years at this point that John Gibson has been at the top of the trade block. But I will say that while we've been incorrectly predicting that he's going to be the guy to get traded, it is becoming more likely every single time we get to this, trade deadline that goes by, every offseason that goes by, because the only reason he hasn't been traded up to this point is GMs were afraid to take on that contract. And now we're

getting towards the end of it. It's only got two years left. And not only does it only have two years left, but I think that the rising cap and the number we're seeing all these goalies sign at has suddenly made his $6 million a lot more palatable than it ever has been. The question is, do the ducks still want to trade him? Because the ducks have got a new coach. They are, they appear to be actually trying to add some players, and they did take a step forward next year, or last year. Dostal was excellent in that he's clearly the future of this team, but I could see a situation where Joel Quinville comes in and says, we're not trading John Gibson. We've got one of the best goalie tammons in the league. John Gibson was excellent last year.

We're keeping both of these guys, and we're going to actually try to win some games. I could see that scenario happening, but if not, to me, John Gibson showed enough last year, despite the injuries, and he was injured a bunch. It was a lot of tiny little injuries. He didn't have anything major, but it just seemed like he was getting banged up every night. Despite the injuries, he showed enough to show that he still got that high level of go to a contending left in him.

And I think he wants to go to a contender. I think he wants to play some winning hockey before his career's done. And if I was a contender, I would absolutely be targeting Gibson this summer. I was absolutely shocked when I just Googled John Gibson and found him. He's only 31 years old. it feels like he has been in the league since like the 60s. Like I thought he was at the end of his career looking to chase. Like this guy is theoretically in the prime of his goaltending career.

Can he be a number one somewhere? Do you still see him as a guy who's capable of, I mean, I know a number one these days plays 45 games instead of 37 games, but does he still have that in him right now? I think he does. It's interesting. So he's kind of an old school goalie. Like you mentioned he's played a lot longer that it seems,

based on his age just because he's been in the league since he was very young. He also has kind of a throwback style. Like he's not this new age, like super technical feet go exactly where they're supposed to angles in the right, doing the math in their head with the geometry. That's not John Gibson at all. He's kind of an old school rhythm-based guy. He challenges really aggressively. And I think that that's part of why when the ducks were really, really bad for a couple

years, his stats were horrendous because he's just not the style of goalie that is going to put up consistent numbers behind a bad team. He's the type that can steal you a game. Like I see John Gibson as very high ceiling, has some low valleys in his game. But if you're a really good team, Edmonton, for example, I think he could put some monster performances up for a team like that. And I think he could absolutely, he can be a difference maker in the playoffs, which to me, goalies are so good and they're all so well-schooled that I think to me, the way I view it is it's easy to get okay goaltending. Like, there's so many of them out there.

But to find a real difference maker, a guy who can come in and win you a playoff game, be what Sergei Babrovsky has been for Florida. Now, I don't know if Gibson has quite that level, that consistently, but I think he can hit some peaks like that. I think he can come in and be a number one and absolutely win you some games in the playoffs. Like you said, he's only 31. I think he still has quite a bit left in him. What could Edmonton even give up for him?

I mean, you just talked about, right? Like, the contract is no longer a cap-dump, albatross kind of situation. I don't even know that Anaheim actually ever viewed it that way. But I think that's how it got framed for a while in the public discourse. Now, like, if John Gibson was a free agent, he's getting his exact contract on the open market, I think, like fairly comfortably. And I don't know that Edmonton, that doesn't even have a first-round pick for the next two years, actually can get all that competitive in the bidding unless they're going to do something kind of outside the box. Yeah, that's a good point.

And like I said, I do think that the Ducks were trying to get rid of that. And now all of a sudden, if they want to win, maybe they don't want to get rid of it. Like maybe, like I said, maybe Joel Quinville says, no, we've got two awesome goalies. Dostall was amazing in his first year. But let's not, let's not bring in some like scrub backup and make Lucas Dostall play 60-something games. And like maybe he's not quite ready for that in his second pro or full pro NHL season. Let's keep the tandem going. So maybe the Ducks.

And then if that's the case, then the big. is going to have to be higher, right? Like, you're going to have to actually give them something that they really want. This isn't a case of, hey, we'll take this contract off your books. So, I don't know if a first, just because, like I said, I still think the contract is something. I don't think it's completely nothing. But it'll be interesting to see what it costs if he does end up getting traded. I don't know if a first, if it takes a first, it might take someone, especially if the ducks are trying to win. I might take a usable player right now. Like maybe all of a sudden, the Ducks aren't looking for a 2028 first.

That does us no good. Give us a player that we can actually use at the moment. So I don't know what the asking price will be, but I would for sure be calling them if I was Edmonton or any other contender that really needs a goalie. So last year around this time, you were hyping Anthony Stolars, and you were proven right. He was able to step in in Toronto and make a huge difference.

Is there a guy like that out there this summer, a guy who's never really had a chance to be a number one that you think could take that step? I think amongst the guys that have a chance at being moved, it's interesting what Carolina's doing. They signed Freddie Anderson again, despite all the injury and his age. Peotr Kachetkov, Carolina, like I've said with Gibson, maybe Carolina has no interest in moving him. But if I needed a goalie, I'd be calling the Carolina Hurricanes and seeing what they think about Piotr Kachetkov and possibly moving him because I've, I liked what I saw a lot from him last year.

I'll be honest, I was not really a believer of his before last season. I was kind of banging that drama of Carolina needs a goalie. They need a goalie. He need a trade for one. And then I watched him play last year. And I thought he took some big steps. He played super aggressively at the top of his crease. It doesn't leave a lot of holes when he's on his game.

I think Piotr Kachetkov can be a, maybe not a number one, but like a true number one, but he can be more than he's been in Carolina. I think he can play the lead role in a tandem that's a 1A, 1B. type of situation, rotation. So I like him a lot. Correl Vamelka's been a one in Utah. They just signed him to that long-term deal. But if that team goes south, like if that team isn't any good at the beginning of the

year, I could see Karel Vamalka's name coming up in trade discussion. So I would be trying to get ahead of that, calling them maybe in the off season. And then the other one that's interesting, and this is not a new guy by any means, but Jordan Bennington in St. Louis. the blues don't rebuild. They are not the type of team to tear down and start from the bolts, but they do seem like they're in a transition period, and they didn't make, or sorry,

they didn't look great in the playoffs. I don't know if that team is built to win it all right now. Jordan Bittington's name would be a super interesting one on the trade block to me, because he's a guy that, like I mentioned with Gibson, he's proven he can be a difference maker in the playoffs. And he was very, while the blues weren't overly impressed, in the playoffs. I thought Jordan Bennington played really well in that first round series against Winnipeg. So, yeah, there's a bunch of names out there. It's not the superstars, like,

because that's the thing. Like, everyone wanted Edmonton to upgrade a goal. And it's like, well, yeah, but everyone with a goalie better than Stewart-Skinner doesn't want to trade their goalie. Once you get a top 10 guy, you just don't let them go. And there are teams out there that don't look good. The Islanders, they have the number one pick. They aren't trading Ilyos Sorokin. There's no way that they'd ever trade Ilya Sorokin for anything. I don't think there's a trade proposal out there that would get them to let go of that guy. So

it's going to be hard for teams. If you are in need of goaltending upgrade, it is tough out there in the streets right now. It's going to be rough. Where are you out on Elvis Mersalikins these days? Because a few years back, this guy seemed like he was a big part of the future of NHL goaltending. I mean, he's a top five

Vesina finisher in his rookie year and he puts up all these, you know, plus 900 plus, sorry, save percentages just to start out. And then the last few seasons, it's just been a kind of a steady dip. And now I think we're at the point two years left on his deal, 5.4 million. His name's come up in some Aaron Portsline articles. Is Merslaken salvageable for you? Or is this, you're following the trend? I think his contract looks worse than John Gibson's ever did. So I'm going to go based off of every jam in the NHL was like, nope, not take it. John Gibson's contract, I can't see a world where they would say no to that contract for as long

as they have and then say yes to trading for Elvis Mers-Likins. To me, the same things I said about Gibson in terms of not being the most technical, being more of a rhythm-based guy who kind of he's athletic when he's in it, when he's when he's in the zone, you can't score on him. Elvis Mers-Likins is very similar. He just reaches that zone way less frequent than John Gibson does. When he's on, he looks so good. Like you sit there and wonder, how does anyone score on this guy when he's in the zone, but it just doesn't happen frequently enough. It's happened less and less frequently over the years. I see that contract. And Tristan Jari's a similar one. I think Pittsburgh may be willing to move Tristan Jari, and he's been an all-star goalie.

He's, I think Jari could be an upgrade for some teams, even Edmonton. But do these GMs want to take on that contract? They've shown us over the last couple years that they don't. So to me, Jari and Mersleekins are both probably available. If you call all the GMs, I just don't know if any other team is going to be willing to take on those contracts. While they may be a marginal upgrade over, over maybe who the teams have right now, they just don't want to pour that money into the position for a player that they're not confident is going to make their goaltitting better. Could there be a market for someone like Laurent Braswa, who missed all of last year with

injury, but was highly thought of before that? I mean, the Hawks have Spencer Knight now. They like Arvid Soder Bloom. He's an RFA. Would someone take a chance? I mean, it would be selling absolutely low, but would someone take a chance on the guy like Braswa, could you not trust him at this point? I think it would have to be a case of, like, you are, like, if you're a team that feels pretty good

about your goaltending, but hey, let's add a third guy, because you can't count, like you said, it would be very hard to count on Laurent Brasua to come in and play on any amount of games, even if you're saying it's going to be 30, like the guy's injuries have been brilliant. It sucks because I love the guy's game. I got to watch him here in Vegas. I got to know him quite a bit. He is a super technical goalie. Like, he is a goalie coach's goalie. The way he thinks the game, the way he moves around the crease is exactly the way the goalie coaches wish the goalies would.

He does think so precise. He just can't stay healthy. Like, he finally did it here in Vegas. He had a surgery that it, the thing had been bothering him since junior hockey. He finally had the surgery. He played the full season. It was like, all right, here we go. He finally turned it around.

He signs that deal in Chicago. And he's, we, have you ever even seen him, Mark? I allegedly saw him one time late in the season walking down the hallway, but I don't know what he looks like. So it was just like by process of elimination, I figured that was Laurent Pursua. Yeah, yeah. It's so unfortunate. Super nice guy, really good goalie. I think he's worth taking a chance on.

Like maybe I'm a little biased. I got to know him here in Vegas. I think he's a very good goalie. I think it's absolutely, especially if you're not giving up much. Like you said, Chicago's pretty set in terms of their future goal to. They've got two young guys that seem to be on the track for being the guy. So I would, I'd give him a call and see if I can get him for cheap and bring him into camp and see if he can stay healthy. Because if he is healthy, I'll say this.

There's 32 teams. There's 64 NHL goalie jobs. Lorette Breslauze, when healthy is absolutely one of the best 64 goalies in the world. You could argue he's closer to like top 30 than he is in that bottom 30. When he's healthy, he's very good. So that's, that's an interesting. I hadn't even thought of that. But it's an interesting, like, high upside.

It's not going to risk you much. Like, you're not going to cost. It's not going to cost a ton to get Bresla. So he's a very interesting name. All right, I'm going to close here then by talking out of school a little bit and throwing one out there on you that I've just been kind of kicking around in my head. I have no reason to believe this player is available, to be clear. But if you're the Nashville Predators and you just had the season that you had, you see Soros had a rough go. And obviously, I think the team in front of him was probably a big reason why for that.

But he's getting to that kind of cliff age at 30. you may be going in a direction depending on how this year goes where you may not be a high end goalie may actually not do that much for you if they can't get it back on track fairly quick here. And in a barren goalie market, I guess what I wonder is do you at least owe it to yourself to listen on Saros if you're the Predators? Man, if they were to do that,

how bad does that Ascarov trade look? There a year later. Oh, goodness gracious, because they traded Ascaroff because UC Saros is so young and he's the future. He's 30. though. He's young, but he's not that. Like, he's, to your point about John Gibson, he's one year younger than John Gibson.

Yeah, it's, or two, I guess. I mean, Saros would be worth a ton. I mean, you'd get a haul for that guy because that is, we've named all these guys, but they all have problems, right? Like, even Jordan Bantington's got a cup. There are plenty of, there's plenty of doubt that Jordan Baintington is going to come into your organization and lead you to the promised land. Like, there's, there's doubt there.

There's, he's had some rough seasons. You see Soros, there's no doubt. Like, yeah, the stats can say whatever they want last year. That team was terrible. And he's a small goalie. So I think if you put him behind a bad team, he's going to have some worse nights than maybe some bigger goalies will. Sometimes pucks just hit you. I know this.

Very experienced with pucks just hitting me by accident because I'm big. UC Soros doesn't have that luxury. So I think that on a behind a bad team, I think his numbers can even get skewed a little worse than they deserve to be. If I, I mean, I don't know if Nashville will be willing. If I was a team looking for a goalie, I'd throw the kitchen sink to get UC Soros in there because I think he's an absolute superstar. Like, I have no reservations after him having a down year in terms of where he's at as a goalie. I think he's still one of the top five, six guys in the league, elite of the elite. So you're right about Nashville.

And like, they've got a lot of those contracts. Stephen Stamcoast, Jonathan Marshall. So these are guys that are not getting any younger. They're not getting better. and is that team going to be able to win before they all are too old to win? It's a super interesting dynamic there. I don't know if they'd be willing to. Man, would that shake up the trade market?

Yeah. That would be the biggest move of the offseason. I can't think of a move for even including Mitch Marner, all these, like Sam Bennett, if he somehow were to be pride away from Florida, I can't think of a player that would shake up the cup landscape more than UC Soros going to a legit contender. Like I said, I have no reason to think that that's like in play. I think I just have like an allergy-like aversion to great goalies wasting away on bad teams. And maybe Nashville will rebound and make it irrelevant.

But it's just one of those things I've kind of been thinking about is like, well, if they are this bad and if it happens again, are they going to wish that they had done this? Because if there's another season on the on that goes like this past one did and say percentage for Soros matches it, I do think the value would start to take a little bit of a hit. So if I'm them, I have to at least consider was last year really a flu? But I don't know if they are or not. I don't want to get radioed here, but that's just a thought I wanted to take your way. Let's take a break right there.

We're going to come back with something fun. All right, we're back. And several months ago, I think we made a promise on the show that we were going to get to this at some point in the year. And as it turned out, this is the last week that it actually makes sense to do it, because it's draft week. Draft is coming up this Friday. And what we wanted to do is a game where I read some prospects, names, and a brief description of them to Las and Jesse. and they're going to guess if that player is real or fake. So I've compiled some of them are real, some of them are fake.

I'm not going to tell you how. I thought we were real or like Lord of the Rings character or something. Oh, that could have been fun too, but then I think it would have given you an unfair edge if you like knew Lord of the Rings or something. So I'm pretty big nerd. So there you go. So here's the rules. I did not pick any prospects that were ranked like outside the top. Like they had to be ranked in the top 64 by at least one of Scott or Corey.

And I think most of them are ranked in the top 64 by both. both Scott and Gros. So these are like solidly top two round prospects or at least top two round potential. There is no guarantee how many of them are real or fake, but I will tell you that at least three are real and at least three are fake. So that maybe will help you with some process of elimination, but you don't need to worry that like they're all going to be fake and it's all been one big scam. So two disclaimers here. One, Jesse and I are about to humiliate ourselves with our lack of knowledge here. But you have to understand that Jesse's team has never had a first round pick because they traded it every year. and I have Scott Powers on the Chicago beat and this is his jam.

And we've both got you and Corey and Scott. It's not really our job to worry about who's going 37th off the board here. So we're going to look stupid, but it's okay that we look stupid here. Yeah. My philosophy has, yeah, I mean, I watch 32 NHL teams. Like I watch an insane amount of hockey. And my philosophy has always been that that's enough.

I do not need to watch junior hockey. Like you said, we have experts that are so good. it that I can just slack them. I can just message them on Slack when I have a question about a prospect. So yes, my prospect knowledge, my junior hockey knowledge is almost zero. I don't know about you, Jesse, but my whole strategy here is that their name is Braden, Jackson, or Connor. It's an NHL prospect. Got to be real. Yeah. Pretty good strategy. All right. Play along with us at home. Try to beat Laz and Jesse. Let's dive right into this. All right. Number one is Kerban Limitov, a six foot four left

Shot D in the Dynamo Moscow organization, considered a good skater, good ratings on his compete. Notably, despite the size, despite those grades, only played one pro game to date. Real or fake? Say his name again? Kerban Limitov.

Fake. I said fake. He's real. Damn it. Great start. Don't know if I pronounced it right, but he is real. Yeah, because if you pronounced it right,

I would have gotten it right. All right. Number two is Marlon Andrews. He's an overager center, but he did have a breakout season in the BCHL this year. He's committed to play college hockey at Minnesota State next year. Real. Fake because I don't think Minnesota State exists. Minnesota State does exist.

You might know it as Mancato. Wasn't that the show on like the coach, didn't he coach at Minnesota State? A year old. I don't know. Jesse said realaz, what's your answer? I'm going to say fake. He is fake. I was just trying to go off like a Macklin Celebrini.

so I went with Marlin. All right. Number three, Houchi Wang is a 6-6 defenseman, born in Beijing, but he's playing in Ontario, he committed to B-U, and sometimes he goes by Simon.

6-6? 6-6. I'm going to say real. I'm going to go fake. He's real. God, I'm 0 for 3. I'm killing him. Las, I'm 2 to 0 so far in this game.

All right. Number four is Brayden Ramon. He's an undersized defenseman in the OHL. Mid-second round projection, but he led all draft eligible defensemen in the three Canadian major junior leagues and assists with 60. My Braden rule. I have to say, I have to say real. Yeah, I'm going real on this one. He's fake.

There is a, there is a Braden Coots and there is a Luca Romano, but they're both centers. Neither of them's an undersized D. That was the lamp. I knew Las was going to think that way, so I threw a Braden and just to mess with him. All right. Two to zero still in Las's face. Jesse, let's get you on the board, man. I can't do this.

Maybe you've heard of this one. Andre Agronov, or could be a Greenov, a 6-3 Russian goalie. He's a high-end athlete, but is considered a bit of a project. They'd have three shutouts this year in the Russian Junior League, the MHL. I'm going to say fake. I'm going to say real because of the way you corrected your pronunciation, because if you corrected your pronunciation of a fake name, then you are playing 4D chess here, and I bow to you.

I am playing 4D chess. That was very calculated. Hey, I got the goalie. I have a 100% hit percentage on goalies. That's good enough for me. That's true. It's great for the brand. I overthought it.

All right. Number six is Mason West. He's a 6-6 center committed to Michigan State, potential late first, early second, but there is some concern because in spite of choosing hockey, he is going back to high school for his senior football season this fall. Real. You mentioned him earlier in the show, and now you got me on the back foot. Like were you like incepting me earlier in the show here?

We've established that I play some 4D chess. I'm going to go with real again. I'm going to say real. Jesse? Yeah, real. Yeah, he's real. I let that one slip. Between breaks, Laz and I were having a debate about how people, like, value size and

drafting. And I accidentally gave the example comparing 510 James Higgins to 6-6 Mason West. Brutal. And I just, I think last. could probably see on my face the panic of like, oh, no. Oh, I didn't remember that being off there. That was during the show. Okay.

Oh, it was off air between breaks. Oh, that's devastating. All right. So you both get that one. So is it three, two? Oh, Laz, that's right. Las missed on a Greenov, yeah. Or Agrinov, you know, who's to say?

All right. Number seven is Monzgoose, a 665 goalie out of Vassaro, Sweden. And despite being ranked this high, he actually ended up as the number two goalie for Sweden at this year's U-18's. Mon's goose of Sweden. There's no way. That's a real name. That's fake. Yeah, fake. No, he's real.

His name is Mungoose? Again, I don't know how to pronounce that. I'm pronouncing it Monsgoose, but it's M-A-N-S-G-O-O-S. So it could be M-A-N-G-O-O-S-G-O-O-S-Go-Mung. Mung-Gus. That's like the coolest name I've ever heard in my life. There you go. All right. Still, is it, so 3-2 now? 3-2.

3-2. All right. UC-Yarvenin is a 6-4 center out of Finland. He was hurt for most. to the first half of the year, came back in January, and made the lineup for Calpa on their league of championship run, and actually scored a goal during the championship series. Real. Yeah, I think that feels real. It's fake.

Oh, my God. As I was making these, I had my wife Google common finish names. But here's the funny part is we came up with one. It was going to be Emil Yarvenin. And then she was like, I should Google this to make sure there isn't a real, but there was a real hockey prospect named Emilio Javon. So then I had to change it to UC. All right. Francois Juare is a steady 6-2 defender in the queue.

Plays with a major edge. He got kicked out of three different games this year for fighting and got an instigator suspension. Real. I'm going to say fake. Didn't they outlaw fighting in the queue? That's why he got the suspension. Oh, yeah.

I'm supposed to say fake. He is fake. Jesse, this guy's name is basically French player. So that was a little bit of a tell. I took Spanish, man. The only thing I know less about than these prospects is French. All right. And then the last one.

So it's four two. So Laz has clinched the win. We're seeing if Las can get to 50-50, which I do think is a non-trivial badge to wear. Ivan Ryabkin is an average-sized Russian forward. Started out the season as a potential high pick. But he has fallen out of that range since. Actually moved from Russia to.

the USHL midseason and won the Clark Cup. Real. Average size feels very vague to me. I'm going to go with fake. Oh, he's real, Laz. No! 4 to 3. Who says average size?

What kind of prospect expert says average size? I'm playing 4D chess. You guys are like 6'2 and a quarter. I couldn't remember if he was 511 or 6.0. And when I went to look, I was like it's actually way more interesting if I just say average Oh, so now 511 is average size. I thought it was so short, they can't be in the NHL anymore. I didn't say that.

Like, God forbid someone be 511 in the NHL. It'll never happen. Sidney Crosby doesn't actually exist. If you're not 6'3, you're worthless. You get that out of your system? Prospect guys. God. Las did take the victory, 4 to 3.

Neither of you crossed the 50% bar. So I am curious how many of you playing at home topped our experts. But I thought that was very fun. I appreciate you guys. We did not cover ourselves with glory on this one, though. That's our, look, they were not easy ones. I did not go with any, like, top 20 picks here. I was intentionally.

I've heard of Steve McQueen. I know Ravensburg. I know Ravensburg's the top goalie. That's the only guy I can name. I was hoping he'd be one. I was hoping, I was really hope. Because Ravensburg sounds like it could be a fake name, too. I was like, that'll be the one I know.

I would have been a good one. I feel like I've got, like, 10 or 12 names that I would have gotten. And then after that, it was just making things up. I did like, though. I could see. Jesse when I said the goalie one. He was like, I would have heard of this guy if he was the top question goalie. No chance. All right. I appreciate you guys doing that for putting yourselves on the line for it. Really fun show. That is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode

of the F. F. F. Fettacaki show, leave us a rating and a review. We'll have a special edition of the Fleta Cockey Show prospect series tomorrow. It's going to be Scott Peter and I redrafting the 2015 draft, which as it turns out, was pretty amazing and a lot more draft coverage coming throughout the week. Stick with us. We'll talk to you soon.