The Athletic Hockey Show - Who are the Conn Smythe contenders right now?

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

The Stanley Cup Playoffs are in full effect with incredible moments happening every night, but which players have stood out from the crowd to put themselves into the Conn Smythe conversation? Max, Laz, and Jesse break down the top picks halfway through the second round. First, The Athletic’s NHL insider Pierre LeBrun talks “next level of hatred” between the Leafs and Panthers, the coaching and GM carousels currently spinning, and more. Plus, the guys discuss Joel Quenneville’s return to the NHL behind the Ducks bench to close the show. Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Pierre LeBrun and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus and Pierre LeBrun for another episode of the athletic hockey show. We are well into the second round of the playoffs, gentlemen. A really fun weekend, and I think the finish was some of the most fireworks that we got, Pierre. Obviously, a really good game between the Florida Panthers and the Toronto Maple Leafs, and it ends on a Max Domi credit cross-checking into the boards on Alexander Barkov that is going to have all the headlines this morning. Yeah, that's a series that has reached its next level in terms of hatred and emotion to be sure.

And, you know, I tweeted this after the game because, you know, I've dealt with player safety a lot over the years. And I know for a fact that player safety would hate the timing of that incident in terms of Domey going after Barkoff. But it's not the most violent play ever either. So, you know, what they hate about it is that it's actually an area of. emphasis in the collective barrier agreement not to have message sending incidents at the buzzer. That's a real no-no in the eyes of the NHL and the player safety, but on the other hand, it's not the worst hit ever.

So the interesting, I know they were looking at it last night and talking about it this morning as we taped this, but it probably is a fine at worst, I think, but it's certainly not something that the league likes. So it's hard. It's sort of in that gray area as far as what do you do with it. But I just don't think anyone in that player safety group can look at it and see that it rises to a suspension. Do you think the league has any concerns about where this series is headed? It just keeps escalating game after game after game.

And there's still potentially three more to go here. Yeah, but you know, I think the stakes will take care of that on its own. In other words, how big is game five now that the series is two, too? Like, I think you'll hear this from the Paul Maurice and, you know, Craig Brubay over the next couple of days leading into Wednesday night. There's too much at stake to do something dumb here. Like, this series is, is hinging. It's close.

Game five to me is obviously the cliche, but it's a pivotal moment. And I just think because of that, because the stakes are so high, I actually think you'll see some of the behavior curve back for the rest of the series because so much is out of the line. There's also a little bit of just the moment. momentum right now is with the Panthers. They've been going hot. The last thing you want to do is take a five or something and give Toronto a bunch of time on the power play to sort themselves out. If you're the Panthers, you just want to ride this. No question. And certainly game four was so Panthers-like in terms of their zone time and their forecheck and grinding Toronto down and not allowing the Leaf skill players enough time and space to do their thing. That is the recipe for Florida, is how they won the other night. And I also think for the Panthers, the double off days are huge. I mean, I know that Paul Maurice, I don't think really liked my question after game two in Toronto when the least went up to nothing. When I asked them about all the hockey they played over the last couple of years and is it possible that it's catching up to them.

And of course, in the moment, they're never going to admit that because they still want to win a series. Maybe it's the kind of thing you're about if they end up losing, although now they're tied to too. But it is something I wonder about. probably one of the reasons why so many people pick Tampa to beat Florida in the first round two is because of all the hockey, the Panthers have played. The double off days at this critical, critical moment of this series of Toronto, I think is a real advantage for the Panthers. Now, if you want to look at from a Leaf's perspective, the one thing it does, the double off days is that it gives you a reset. Just lost two in a row, some crazy things going on down there in Florida. two of the next three at home in Toronto

where the least have been really good here in these playoffs. So that's the positive spin if you're Toronto right now. You're absolutely right about playing so much hockey. I remember in 2015, the Blackhawks were making their third deep run. They were all like, no, we're fine, we're fine. And then once they won the cup, they were all like, oh my God, I can't tell you how tired I was. And I remember

hearing the same thing from the Lightning when they made three deep runs. You're playing an extra season of hockey compared to a non-playoff team. There's no way that doesn't take its toll. Yeah, I think it has. but I think that what helps Florida in the short term is that they got seven days in between the end of the regular season to the start of their series with Tampa. And then they had a short five-gamer with Tampa, which in looking back, if the Panthers end up beating the Leafs and beating the winner of Carolina, Washington and going to another final, I can guarantee you they will look back and say, thank God it was only five games with Tampa. Because if that was a seven-game war, followed by a Leafs War, third year in a row trying to go deep,

I think that's a real difficult hill to climb. But they did get that five-gamer in the first round here, and now they get the double off days for game five. So, you know, it's a little razor-thin margins we're talking about here, but it can all make a difference. By the way, especially for a guy like Sergey Barboski, when he is tired, he looks tired and he looks run down and he's not the same. when he's recharged his batteries, we know what he can do. And again, a double off day is pretty big for the oldest goalie in the playoffs. The earlier game on Sunday, Laz is the game that you were at, Dallas, Winnipeg. And there was plenty of fireworks and spark there, too, although more so to do with the replay booth,

the Alexander Petrovich goal that goes in, it's a weird play. It's kind of that fine line between a kick and a direct with the skate. He's kind of moving his foot to point it at the net, but the puck's not going to. into the net until Connor Hellebuck takes a swipe at it, it goes into the net. So the league, I think the ruling pier, if I'm right about this, is that it counts because even though it deflected off of Hellebuck, it wasn't going to go in until he propelled it is the language. I actually got an explanation sent to me from within this situation room.

I don't think anyone's going to mind me reading at it. So the situation looked at three different things. Was it a kick? Did it then hit his stick? was it a deflection off Hallibuck or did he propel it into his own net? Lots to look at, but in the end, the officials on the ice, which by the way, is important

here because they have the initial impact on the decision. Officials on the ice felt he had propelled it. So there you go. I'm surprised, you know, I'm there and it was absurd. It was an eight minutes from the time the buck went in, the time was brutal. Eight minutes. And I mean, they played

all of Freebird, including the guitar solo. It was ridiculous. And, you know, to me, if it takes that long, to review it, you can't possibly overturn it. Like, if you're looking that hard for something, you got to go with the colonnage. To me, he didn't kick it in. Like, the way the puck was angled, that was not going into the net off of his foot until it hit the paddle of Connor Hellebuck's stick.

To me, there's no gray area. I was shocked at how controversial this has been, frankly. I can see both sides to it, to be fair, because it's a pretty unique situation. But you just raised a really important point, laws. And this was emphasized at the GM meetings in March. So the GM meetings in March, the media that's there gets invited into the actual room where the GMs were all day. And we get a similar presentation from NHL hockey ops that the GMs got during the day. Now, this had to do more with goalie interference coaches challenged the day that we had the presentation.

But if there was a real point of Memphis from Gary Bettman, who we interjected a couple times that day during the presentations of the media, was that whatever the call on the ice is is a big deal. because overturning things, whether it's from the situation room or, you know, coaches, no matter what you're talking about, overturning things has to be pretty clear evidence to go against what was called on the ice. And I don't think that gets emphasized enough when we talk about all this, to your point, Mark. Yeah, I mean, eight minutes, it just went on and on and on. The crowd started cheering.

They were singing along. They started booing. I mean, it was reaching just ridiculous proportions. Let me ask you about the other referee incident that happened. game, though. I saw this live, and I didn't believe my eyes until I saw the replay on where Mason Marchman, I saw the hit. He blatant interference by Mark Scheifek. I understand why Mason Marchman was mine. I know he's got a reputation for diving, but he got hit well after he had got ridden to the puck. And he was mad about it. I understand that. But he slid

to center ice on his knees. And then Graham Skittler, the, skilleter, the referee walks by, and Marchman slashes him on the ankle. Like, you weren't like a little walk tap. He hit him pretty decently. I know those guys have shin pads, but holy crap, he, you know, by the letter of the law, like, assaulted an official. And I'm kind of torn on this because apparently Skiliter was like, you know what, I don't want to make a big stink of it. And I kind of respect that because we know how players and refs are. They scream at each other. They curse at each other. There's kind of that weird vibe they have. But man, that's a dangerous precedent to set, isn't it? It's really weird. And I think I always was under the impression. It's just zero tolerance.

And even if it's by mistake and he didn't mean to and it's weird, it is what it is. I agree. And I guess Skelliter told people in the aftermath, someone told me today that he didn't even notice. He didn't even know what happened. He didn't react in any way. Yeah. So can we just sit back for a moment and examine the entire week?

Like, this has been a gong show weekend. I mean, the cross-checked from Nicholas Hua, that clearly didn't want to do that in the Eminton game in game three, but player safety has that earring, which is usually a, that's, that's pretty foreboding and then ends up just finding him. And then he scores the goal in the next game,

a big goal. But, and again, I'm not saying he should have been suspended, but I'm saying if you look at the totality of events from Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, what a, what a last three, four days in the jail playoffs, it sounded like a playoffs where, you know, and the Vegas scoring with 0.4 seconds left on Saturday night. so many weird and crazy things happening right now in the second round. It's wild.

It's been a great playoff so far. It's also been a pretty interesting coaching carousel, Pierre. And this is the off-ice news coming in here now. So we've got some of these settled, right? Mike Sullivan is going to go to the New York Rangers now. But there's still some big openings out there. What's kind of the job you're watching the closest? Joel Quinville, Anaheim, obviously another one that's now settled. What are the jobs you're watching the closest out there? Well, actually, a good time to plug my next piece, which should come out later. today, but I actually had a chance to interview Greg Cronin, who was

pretty stunned to get fired by the ducks last month after a 21 point improvement of the standings ran on. But one of the things that Cronin told me Sunday in our interview was that once he realized that, you know, Joel Quenville's name surfaced and that it was going to be Joel Quenville, it took a bit

of the sting out of it for him because he's like, okay, I get it. You know, it's sort of like, you know, three-time sounding cup champion. I mean, we can talk all day about the non- hockey part of it and the risk of alienating some ducks fans. But hockey wise, Greg Cronin was like, okay,

well, now I get it. I mean, it's like when St. Louis, you know, bumps a guy out the door to get Jim Montgomery. Like this, we're seeing a little more rootlessness in these GM offices. Well, and actually, Laz, that's a great example. Because, you know, Doug Armstrong, I remember him telling me after

we did an interview this year, I forget when, but he really had no intention to fire Drew Bannister. But then it was like Jim Montgomery's a guy that Doug Armstrong believes is the top five coach in the league. And he's like, I got to get him now or else I'm not going to miss the cycle again on it. I'm not going to get him. I think this is pretty similar here.

Like I think once the Ducks, I think decided, you know, Quedonville was cleared last summer that they were going to go down this path and be ready to go down this path with everything that entails. It's kind of like less about fucking Greg Cronin than it is about where, you know, this is what we're adding on. And I can tell you, a lot of the Ducks players are excited by that hire. and a lot of it for the Ducks too is trying to lure players July 1st and how players now view the Ducks with Joe Kenville behind the bench. So again, it's anyway, that piece will run later today, but I think Great Cronin's in a better place now than he was the day he got fired last one. Shane at Goldman had, I thought, a tremendous piece over the weekend

on the coaching hiring trends in the NHL now slightly below two years on the average, which is wise to me. It's more than a year shorter than any of the other major sports here in North America. I just wonder, Pierre, like, is this actually good for anyone that the 10 years have gotten this short? I know you can get that new coach bump whenever you make the higher. That's the appeal of doing it. And certainly every team can talk itself into like, oh, the next guy is the guy. I just think about the number of players that are going to be on, you know, a coach every other year or every two years.

I don't know if that's actually good. Yeah, I don't like that coaches up such a short. tenure. I think there's got to be other ways to shake up your team, but it's so, we hear this all the time, it's so difficult to make trades that matter in this system. And, you know, maybe now that changes a bit with the cap really going up dramatically the next three summers. Maybe the more liberalized environment will help move players around more and teams can enact change that way. We'll see. But it just ends up being the thing that teams can do to provide a joke to their team, but, hey, it's, you know, it's been interesting. I would, I would not have

predicted this many openings. I mean, when I, I did a piece in late March looking around the league and I saw three or four potential opportunities, and I actually included Mike Sullivan leading Pittsburgh in that, even though that wasn't obvious, but to end up with seven or eight, I think it was eight, is, is, is pretty wild. But, you know, sometimes, too, like, GMs just have a real vision, and this is what's happened here, I think, with Pat Burbique, about where he believes Joe Quentville can bring this program. You remember when Bill Zito hired Paul Maurice? Everyone looks back at an aisle, like, oh, yeah, that was a great hire.

That was not that welcomed. No, not at all. He had stepped down in Winnipeg. Yeah, but my point is he fired Andrew Burnett after the Etterzwan, the president's trophy and led the league in offense. But now, of course, hindsight makes everyone look smarter. The point from Florida's perspective is that they wanted to bring in a coach they felt that could make them a more playoff-sabby team play in a way that would bring success when it matters

and not so much worry about putting on a show during the season. That's not a shot at Andrew Brinette. I'm just telling you, that's how Florida felt when they made that change. And so that's, you know, that goes into these decisions too. I've had a long head of theory and I've gotten a lot of pushback over the years on it, but I'm starting to think most GMs agree with me is that most, Most of these coaches, they're kind of a dime a dozen. For every Barry Trots that can come in and turn the Islanders from the worst defensive team

to the best defensive team in one year, for every John Cooper, for every Joel Quenville, there's just a lot of guys out there that don't have a major impact. The sport is so improvisational and so dynamic that it's difficult to really, this isn't football where you have your hands on every single play that's called. And I'm starting to think GMs kind of agree with me. They're searching for one of those five guys. They're hoping to uncover one of those five guys that can truly. really change the trajectory of a franchise.

And to go back to your question, Max, I'm less interested. I'm not saying I'm not interested, but you asked me what I was most interested about. I'm more interested in the GM carousel right now because it's rare. And what the Allenders are going to do and the Kings are going to do, I've done a bit of reporting on that over the last seven days. But, you know, the Islanders, you know, wanted to talk to Jeff Gordon of the Habs and got rebuffed by Jeff Moleson. I don't know if the Allenders are going to keep trying and convince Jeff

Olson otherwise, but that's where that thing was at. And they interviewed Ken Holland, but it didn't look like the hunters were a fit for Ken Holland. Ken Holland also spent the day interviewing in L.A. Last week with Luke Ropatai. Pat Bresson is not entering the process in L.A. We know that Pat Bresson essentially grew up with Luke Robatai, former junior teammates and moved to L.A. together and tied to the hip.

But Pat Bresson, you know, indicating to me that he will not be a candidate in that. process. Where does Mark Bursman fit into all this? He has ties to both situations. The Islanders would like to interview him, and I don't believe they have yet. But what does Luke Robitai do with Mark Bershman, who is the, you know, the number two to Rob Blake. So it's, the whole thing is pretty fascinating from that perspective.

And those, you know, that King's job in particular is a heck of a job. I mean, the Kings are right there. Yeah. They're a good team. And so whoever gets to go in there and be the next GM, I think that's pretty good gig. So does Ken Holland's interview with Luke Robatai just consist of him going, Hey, Luke, you still got that 2002 cup ring?

And Luke Robatine going, yeah, and Ken going, okay, good. Yeah, but then Luke said you had me on the fourth line. So I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's, and in the midst of all that, I know the Islander is also, as I reported, uh, either will or, or have. I'm not sure where that is timing wise right now, but, uh, interest in talking to Matthew Darsh, the number two in Tampa, who has knocked on the door in a number of GM opportunities here

over the last five years. So we'll see where that goes with you. I don't think everyone is required to interview Matthew Darsh every time there's an opening and then pass him over for inexplicable reasons. It feels like it's, I'm telling you, it's kind of surprising that he's not a GM yet. But these are things that are above my pay grade. I don't make those decisions. One last thing before we let you go, Pierre. I think I'm contractually obligated to ask you about the CBA here. Any momentum so far? I know we're still pretty early in this process. Well, I was kind of checking on it almost every day when they first started negotiating. And then finally, basically both sides told me to buzz off and stop asking every day what was going on because they were trying to,

because they want to do this as secretly as possible behind the scenes, which by the way, is a good sign because you have to assume that there's some constructive work happening on the scenes if they're not taking time to leak stuff and point fingers out each other through the media. So that would be my take is that no news is good news. All right. Well, let's take a quick break right there. Thanks so much, as always, for joining us, Pierre. We're going to come right back. We're going to talk about the Khan-Smith, Jesse Granger, is going to join us. Okay, we are back, and we are joined now by Jesse Granger on the ground in Edmonton.

Jesse, we're going to talk a lot about the Khan-Smife favorites today. But first, I need your backup on something. Laz tweeted yesterday that the Jets and the Stars is the matchup of the two best home jerseys in hockey. I think that is an unhinged take. Who's wrong here? I don't even think the stars home jerseys are their best jerseys. I think the black jerseys with the neon green are the best jerseys.

Oh, come on. Come on. Those jerseys are excellent. I think probably the, and I don't know if this is Max's argument being in Detroit, I think the Red Wings jerseys are probably the best in the NHL. All the original six are just leaps and bounds. Bounds better. Give me a chance to defend it.

First of all, what I like most about, when you see the stars jerseys, those green jerseys in person, they just, they pop. They have a unique color that's all their own. Like, you see green, you know what team you're watching. Half the damn league has red jerseys. The other half has blue jerseys or black jerseys. Give me something original. I'm so mad that Utah just stole Seattle's color scheme,

which just stole Winnipeg's. Because Winnipeg had already mastered the blue on blue. The home blue on blue. And I'm not talking the retro third jerseys. I'm talking the current jerseys, the dark blue ones with the light blue trim. They look so gorgeous in person. And then Seattle rips them off. And now Utah, God, why didn't Utah put purple in their jersey?

Why don't we have a purple team in this league? Why does everyone have to be blue or red? I wanted Vegas to be pink. They came in, like flamingos or something like that. It would be great. Yeah, give me something like that. Yeah, give me something with some flair. When you see green, you know what team you're watching.

When you see red, you could be watching. Minnesota, North Carolina. the Keynes. You could be watching the Blackhawks. Yeah, Minnesota's got the darker, the forest green, which I like, but I don't like their logo. The logo is a little, there's too much going on in that logo. But that bright Kelly Green of Dallas,

no jersey in the league pops the way that one does. And Blackhawks fans always get mad at me because they just tell me, it's just a Blackhawks jersey but green. It's like, well, yeah, and it works. What's the wrong about that? I'll give you, it's one of the most unique, but I do not. I'm not into it. It looks to me

like something, some like, artificial sugary candy is jumping off the ice at me. Like the color looks unnatural. The pickle or the relish on a Chicago hot dog. And as producer Chris just points out, it's called Victory Green because everything in this, their TV station is Victory. The Plaza is Victory Plaza. The color is Victory Green.

The mascot is Victory Green. The train stop for the light rail is Victory Station. They really like the word victory here in Dallas. I will say, I like your argument. You made a solid argument. I still don't agree with you because I just think that, When I think of a hockey jersey, I think of the Red Wings or Montreal. Like, to me, that's just the most hockey.

You can't look more hockey than that. But I will say you made a solid argument. I appreciate that. The Star's jersey that I, I mean, like everyone, I just think whatever was in when I was eight. Don't tell me you like the Mooteris. I don't know what that is. But the Stars jerseys where they were like shaped kind of like a star, like there was the green above the black. Like, that's what I think the Stars jerseys should look like.

And I just, the new logo looks like, you know, in 2010, like, oh, what's going to be like futuristic? And that's kind of how it still looks. And it's fine. Like, it's whatever. It's a logo. But I like the old stars. He's a lot better, a lot better than the current ones. And I certainly wouldn't put the current ones anywhere in my top 10.

What about the Winnipeg ones? Am I wrong on the Winnipeg ones? I like the Winnipeg ones quite a bit. I like, they're very elegant. They're like classy looking. Yes. They are. The insignia is very like this could be anything.

It's cool. Yeah. I do like the jet. on leaf symbol. It's kind of cool looking. So I am into that. But let's talk about the consmite here. And there is a new favorite here. I don't know, I don't know if he was the favorite after round one, actually, but he probably deserved to be. But Miko Ranton is now up to plus 400 as the odds. And it's really hard to argue. I think what is it now? He's factored into 15 of the last 17 goals

by the Dallas Stars. 15 of the last 16. Well, didn't they score two without him? Because there was that there was 15 of the last 16 when it was 14. All right, right. Right. Yeah. It was 13. It was 13. 13 straight, which is just the most absurd thing I've ever heard, to assist or score on 13 consecutive goals in the playoffs. Unbelievable. And he's been a monster. I mean, and it's a different kind of dominance than you see from McDavid. It's not this like puck dominant wheeling around the zone thing.

But when it's that many goals in a row, it's not a coincidence, Jesse. Yeah. I mean, at this point, you're trying to predict who's going to win at all. And then if Dallas wins at all, it seems. like it's almost impossible to be anyone other than Rantan at this point. Like Ottinger's been okay. He's been solid. He hasn't been spectacular. They obviously don't have anyone close to Rantinan and points or goals. To me, what Rantan is doing is I feel like Pete Dabor, he's one of the best coaches in the

NHL. But his offense seems to be very predictable. And when you get to the playoffs, it seems to dry up. I've watched it several times here in Vegas. We've watched it in San Jose. a million times. We've watched it in Dallas now. Miko Ranton might be the cure to that because he doesn't need a scheme or he doesn't need you to scheme him into, like he just skates to the front of the net, out bullies everyone there. And then it's just so skilled and has such good hands once he gets there. He is scheme proof. So yes, I think if there's a player out there that's finally going to get Pete Dabor the cup that he probably deserves at this point, it's Miko Rannan. Yeah, but the stars win the cup, it's obviously Randon. But these odds from bed-ed

MGM, they're interesting because like plus 400 is crazy odds to me, considering how hard it is to win the Stanley Cup still. Like I don't think the stars are at plus 400. So, you know, it's like, you know, McDavid's at plus 600. Freddie Anderson at plus 900. You're betting on that, like Jesse said, you are betting on that team to win the Stanley Cup. What happened last year with McDavid is not going to happen very often. So you're not only do you need that team to win the Stanley Cup, then you have to narrow it down to

that this guy's going to win the cons smite. So I'm looking more at the longer odds. It's like Jack Eichel at plus 2,200, that's where I'm, like, if I'm looking at this and I'm a betting man, that's the where I'm looking at my money. Yeah, plus 2,200 for Eichl. Because if Vegas wins, it's going to be on the back of Jack Eichl, who's been fabulous in these playoffs. And Vegas is a, you know, I know they're down 2-1 in the series right now, but they have a real chance of winning the Stanley Cup. That's a team that can do it. So that's like your value odds at this point.

Bet MGM has Alexander Barkhoff at plus 1,600. I think Barcoff should have won it last year. Obviously, some of this is baked in as they've got a tough path. But if the Panthers win this thing, I think it will be Barkov. So to see 1600 for him. I know it's wide open. They got a lot of good players. He's just such an impactful player that if he was, if the Panthers were to win it,

I have to think it's him raising it. And I think their odds to win it have to be better. It's easy for the voters to default to him too, right? If it's hard to pick, you're going to pick a guy like Parkoff. You just know does everything so well. To me, one of the better, I guess, value long, shots that I like is Logan Thompson at plus 5,000. So 50 to 1 right now for Logan Thompson. If the Capitals are to win, and they're down to 1, it feels worse than that because the Capitals

have been dominated for some of these games, but that's why Logan Thompson should be, should be in the Consmite conversation, in my opinion. I think he's been the best goalie in these playoffs. In a playoffs where the goalies are struggling. I think there are three goalies currently with a goal saved above expected above zero. It has been a brutal playoffs to be a goalie. Everyone's scoring. There aren't a ton of shots. We were talking to Bruce Cassidy here in Edmonton about it yesterday,

and he's like, nobody's shooting unless it's a high day, unless it's a grade A chance. So you see five goals on 22 shots because we're just not wasting shots. And despite all of that, Logan Thompson saved 9.3 goals above expected. He's first in the league on Moneypuck. I think he's second on evolving hockey. and we still keep not giving the Capitals any credit, even though they were like one of the best teams in the regular season.

They won easily in the first round. And they're right there against the Hurricanes. I don't think the Capitals should in any way be favored to win the Cup, but I think that they still can absolutely win the Cup. And if they do, it's going to be behind Logan Thompson. I mean, he's been so good. He's so athletic in there. I just wrote a big story that came out this morning on the Athletic on Logan.

I talked to a couple of his goalie coaches about how he does. things so differently from other goalies. And I think that that's, we always talk about his path and like how, like how windy and different of a path he took to get to the NHL. He played U-Sports in Canada. Only a handful of guys in history have played that and then still made it to the NHL. And I think one of the biggest reasons he took that path is he just looks different. He doesn't goaltend the way everyone else gold tends. And I think it's easy to see that and say, that's not repeatable. He made that save because he's got ridiculous athleticism and hand-eye coordination, but he wasn't in the right spot.

He's probably not going to make that safe consistently. I don't believe in that guy. And yet he does make it consistently because he's so good with his hand-eye coordination. And I think that he plays a style that fits his competitiveness. Like that's the first thing that always pops off the page when you look at Logan Thompson play is just how competitive he is. And he crouches forward. He's kind of on his toes as opposed to making himself big to the puck and standing up tall. and I just, I don't know, it's been super interesting to me.

I'll even be honest, I feel like I even undersold Logan Thompson at times when he was here in Vegas for the same reasons because it just doesn't look like it's supposed to look when he does it. But man, is he getting it done? He gets that long-term contract. We're kind of wondering how it's going to go in the playoffs now that you've got a specific opponent that can maybe target areas that the goalie is weak at. He looks just as good, if not better than he did during the regular season. So I've been super impressed with Logan Thompson. And I think that, like I said, if the Capitals win, Ovec can be damned. If the Capitals win, Logan Thompson is the Consmy.

Have we asked you this before, Jesse? I don't think we have. You talked about Thompson's path. It just kind of got the wheels turning. There's a lot of guys on the Capitals like that who have had, you know, whether it's a winding path or whether it was a really high pick who has had some, do they remind you at all the kind of the Golden Misfit era, Golden Knights, like the way that they've kind of come together here?

Sort of, yeah. And it's also a case of, I actually said this, I think, midway through the year. And then I kind of forgot about that comparison. They remind me of the Golden Knights because you look at their names on the page. You look at the lineup sheet and you say, well, that's not the best team in the league. And I can remember in 2017, 18, when Vegas came in, even like Drew Dowdy was like, wow, they just kicked our asses, but that team's not better than us. I mean, look at the roster. And then the Golden Knights projected that quote onto the ice in the first round.

when they played the Kings while the Golden Knights swept them. And to me, we look at this, we watch the Capitals play. They're great. They're great team. They win all the time. They look good doing it. And yet we look at the roster and we say, well, that can't be the best team in the league. But hockey's a team sport.

And when you get all those names on the ice together, they're pretty, pretty good. I've yelled at Jesse a thousand times over the years that he says golden nights on every reference. He never says just knights. He always golden knights. It drives me insane how he has to use the full. proper name every single time he mentions the team he got like me like me saying black hawks instead of you saying red wings instead of wings he's the only one who does it it's really weird i say red wings like 90% of the time i say black hawks in print what i'm writing it oh yeah yeah yeah the hawks i got

game the night you know sure yeah yeah wings game yeah i get what you're saying even like casual conversation jessey calls them the golden nights on every single reference i can't not say golden nights i don't know it's just ingrained in my brain that's just how i say it they named the the team that the gold is a pretty big part of the brand i mean everything is gold. Yeah, speaking of jerseys, those, you want to talk about unique colors that only one team has on their jersey. The golden night's sparkle.

Yeah, they sparkle. On TV doesn't show up as well, I will admit. It doesn't look as good on TV as it doesn't person. In person, they look phenomenal. On TV, they're a little musterty. All right, Jesse, so I had a call on my road off the game last night that I think I got Pierre LeBronitis from covering the first round with them where I think about international hockey, probably more than I should know, because that's a pierre's first love is international

hockey. If the Olympics started tomorrow, who's Team USA's number one goalie? Is it Connor Hellebuck or is it Jake Ottinger? That's a great question. I think it's still Connor Hellebuck. Really? You would trust, this is three straight years. This is not a sample size issue. He was good at the Four Nations. He was good for Team USA. He was good. He's not consistent enough. Jay Gottinger is the same every single game. He's so even keel. Home road. Doesn't matter the opponent. Doesn't matter the round, he's the same. Hellebuck, who the hell knows what you're going to get out of him at this

point? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's certainly becoming a question. Whereas at four nations, it was no question. It's obviously counter Hellebuck. It definitely is at least up for debate now. And plus, Ottinger's like, I think as we're like the same way we're, we're kind of going with the narrative with Hellebuck struggling in the playoffs. And at this point, it's not even a narrative. It's just happening. Helle, I mean, Ottinger has been excellent in the playoffs every year of his entire career. He went to the conference final last year. He's put up good numbers and he gets better as the series goes on every single time. That's one thing I always notice about Ottinger is like if he's good in game one, you are screwed because usually he's not that great in game one and he gets better in

game two, better in game three. He just keeps getting better as he starts to get, he starts to read this team, starts to understand the shooters, starts to understand where they're trying to go with the puck. He's such a cerebral goalie. Similar to Hella. I think that's just kind of the U.S. style of goaltending is just a really like mentally sharp goalie who's technically sound and maybe isn't like you look at the Russian goalies. They're so athletic. They're flying all over the place. The American goalies are a little quieter, rely on their reads a little more, and Ottinger's that to a T. All right. We do have a correction here from our producer. We thought for sure that Randman's odds would be better than the stars, but from bed MGM, stars are plus 340 to win the

cup. That's crazy with eight teams still out there. Those are some crazy odds to me. And that sliver probably does belong to Jake Audinger, to Jesse's point. Yes. Yeah, for sure. And I think he is second here on the list. He's tied with Bobrovsky at plus 2000. So 20 to 1 for Ottinger. Those are, that, again, Rantan would have to get hurt probably for him to get because I feel like Rantan's already got enough goals that he could go like goalless and still end up getting it. Let me tell you, if Ratton gets hurt, the Dahlastard are not winning the Stanley Cup because nobody else is doing it. Maybe Rope Hince is playing pretty well. But Wyatt Johnson playing okay, but Matt Dushan hasn't scored yet.

Mason Marchman's not scoring. This is a one-man show right now. The goals dry up for Pete DeBore system when they get to the playoffs. I don't know what it is. One more thing before we let you go, Jesse. I want to talk about the series you've been covering Vegas and Edmonton. It's been a great series. I mean, it has been the absolute clash that I think we wanted it to be.

And the end of game three was maybe the most scintillating. I mean, that's saying something after we got an overtime McDavid to dry a winner in game two. but the way it ends in game three is is wild. Yeah, as someone who has to file the story at the buzzer of the game, I was not a fan of the way to be gay. I felt guilty. I had abandoned you guys.

I'm like, oh, crap, I should have been there to help him with this. It was pretty insane. I'm literally yelling that the Oilers, it just, it felt like Edmonton was going to score in that last minute of the game. Like they had been pressuring,

pressuring, they get the tying goal from McDavid with three minutes left. And then they just kept, the pressure just kept coming. And I'm like, I'm sitting here and I'm like, man, I've got to rewrite this entire story. Just get me to overtime. Just get me to overtime so I can have that intermission.

I can rewrite it. And then with seven seconds left in the game, Carlson grabs the puck. And like the Golden Knights could not get it out of the zone. Carlson grabs it and he's like, screw this. I'm doing it myself. He just skates around three guys. And honestly, I looked at the guy next to me in the press box when he crossed the Vegas blue line. Just for getting it out of the zone, I looked at the guy across me and I'm like, what a stud.

Like what a play that was. what a play that was by William Carlson just to run the clock out, to survive the last seven seconds. And he had no intention of running the clock out. He skates all the way down the ice, four on one, finds Riley Smith in the slot. And then what a patient play. Like I asked Riley Smith after the game, how do you have the poise in that situation to do that? And he's like, I don't know, just hope. It was just hope.

Because there's less than a second left. the Edmonton players were clearly panicked. McDavid and Nurse were just just sliding out towards him, just completely selling out. Stuart Skinner was even more sold out. The dude slid 40 feet out of his net. And Riley Smith just fakes the one-timer, curls around.

He's just waiting, waiting, waiting. And finally Skinner slides out of the way and he just varies it. That was an incredible play. And obviously he needed a little help from Drysidal. Yeah, it's true. It's the year of the own goal. There's nothing but own goals this year. But that play by Carlson, to me,

I don't think anything's going to top that in this playoffs. That was the play of the entire tournament. Most guys are like, all right, let's just get it to overtime. You're right. He was like, no, we're going to score here. And he's done that before where he races down, then he flings it to the center of the ice like that.

It's just like every single coach should be showing that video to every player they see for the rest of their lives. This is how you play. You play to play. When we say play to the whistle, this is what we mean by play to the whistle. You don't ever give up.

on a play when there's a chance to win a game. It was just William Carlson, give him the cons might just for that one play. And you want to talk about how, like, in the playoffs, things change so quickly. Like, you feel so in control of a series or you feel so out of it. There was a point in the first period where the Golden Knights are down to nothing in the series, having lost both games at home in a building that is absolutely rocking. Now you're down to nothing in this game. And Mark Stone just skated off the ice with an injury.

that he would not return with. It could not have felt moreover. Like, I can't think of a scenario where it's more over for a team. And now here we are. And Vegas is, if Vegas wins tonight, they're in control. Like, it feels like they're back in control of the series. It is, man, the NHL playoffs, you cannot take your, your eye off of it for one second or it'll flip on you.

It's never disappoints, right? Never disappoints. Especially if they can get Aiden Hill back to form, right? I mean, if you can tie this series and you just, similar to what we've talked about on with, well, we talked about with Dallas in the first round just waiting to kind of get, whether it's ranting and back in the form, Heisken and Robertson back on the ice. Extend this series and let your stars kind of grow into it. I don't know if we're going to call Eden Hill a star, but he's certainly been one of Vegas's best players over the last few years.

And if he gets right, that is a series changer. The Pickard injury is massive. And I can't believe I'm saying this. I cannot believe I'm saying Calvin Pickard is like the key to this series. But he is because Stuart Skinner has been so bad. Like the last goal I don't even fault him for. There's one second left. I don't fault the goalie for charging out and trying to cut the angle off.

And then by the way, he didn't give up the goal if his own guy doesn't put it in the net. If dry saddle doesn't put it in the net, Stuart Skinner didn't give him the angle. But the first goal, I mean, like I said, it was two nothing. Everything is going Edmonton's way. And then Nick Hague throws a harmless shot from way out. All you have to do is block it into the corner. Like, it's an easy rebound control. And yet Skinner, he misses it with his blocker.

It hits him in the arm. He thinks it's behind him. He falls on his back trying to, and then it goes right to Waw. And he just puts it in the net. He looked like it was not good. It was a terrible, terrible goal to give up. And now Pickard's out for game two. That play where Hurdle landed on him, it's one of those things where he finished the rest

of that game, the adrenaline was probably going. And then I'm assuming he went back and his knee like swelled up. I don't know if we'll see Pickard back in this series. And like to go back to Aden Hill, the Golden Knights, need Aiden Hill to be the better goalie in this series. Like if they're going to win this series, they have to win the goaltending matchup. And because Edmonton's got more firepower,

they've got the two best guys on the ice, you have got to have the better goaltending. And so far he hasn't been. Even game three, I didn't think he was great. He needs to be better. So if he can be better, if he can give them an advantage in that,

I think Vegas is obviously still, obviously, alive in the series. So it's been a great series. The momentum swings are wild. Tonight should be fun. building. I was here two years ago, and I don't remember this building being this loud. It was Winnipeg loud the other night. I was super impressed. It's a fun atmosphere. All right. Great stuff, Jesse. Let's take a quick break right there. We're going to come right back.

All right. We're back. And one last thing I want to talk about last before we close the show here is the Joel Quinville hiring. We obviously touched on the Greg Cronin side of this a little bit with Pierre, but the hire is a big story in its own right. And I guess let's just start here. You've heard the comments from the Ducks owner, Henry Samwellie, and obviously said all the right things. The question is, are you buying it? I don't know. I don't know if we'll ever know. I mean, what are the chances this happens again and Joel Quenville gets to like prove that he's a different man, right? That's like kind of, we're just going to go in on faith here. And God forbid, we hope this does not happen again, obviously. But, you know, we'll never know.

was this process, you know, the, you know, Pat for Beak and the owner, they all said that they believe that Joel has gone through the process and he's done and he's put in the work. And I don't know if it's performative. I don't know if he really means it. I don't know how to determine that. Like, I just don't know. For me, and I've been saying this fears, like I realize I'm eyeballs deep in this. I cover the Chicago Blackhawks. I've been writing about this for five or five years now.

For me, the best thing that could have happened was he's reinstated by the NHL and then all 32 teams say, nah, we're good. Like we don't need that in our organization. There's other options out there. We don't need to do this. I knew that was never going to happen. We all knew he was going to come back into the league. And I've always been of two minds on this because in the one hand, to me, everyone who was in that room that didn't do the right thing, that didn't step up, that didn't speak to the press, to the HR, to police,

should never be in the league again. I'm just a hardliner on that at this point. But, and this is a big but, I do believe that there's a benefit to, if Stan Bowman, who is now the GM, of the Oilers and Joel Quenville, who is now the head coach of the Anaheim Ducks, if they really have changed, if they really have learned, isn't that what we want? Don't we want people to better themselves to learn from their mistakes and then to come back and be agents of change, positive forces for good? I'd love to believe that.

I want that to be true. The cynic in me just says that this is an unnecessary risk that these teams are taking. Yeah, to your point, it's actually a very good point, like the people in theory who will be the most on guard about this now are the people who have seen it once before. You would like to think that. It is just a question of will that be the case? And the hard part of it about it is. And I have sympathy for someone making a hiring decision like this. You can't know whether that's going to be the case or not until you're in that situation again, which you hope to never be in that situation again. Right. And so you don't know, you know, again, is it performative? Is it going through the motions

or is it genuine? I don't know. I can't speak to the Quenville's process. I haven't heard enough from people. I have heard enough from people that he was putting in some work. He was making calls to the movers and difference makers in the game and was trying to understand what he did wrong, what he could do better next time. But then you go and I remember he did that, the Cam and Strickland podcast last year, his first real public statements. And he's like, hey, I had a miss in 2010. I still think I have something to belong in this game. And I'm like, a miss. You didn't have a miss. Like that shows me a lack of awareness and a lack of understanding of the severity of what happened in 2010 with the

Chicago Blackhawks. So that's why I just, I'm very cynical about this. I cast a wary eye towards this and it's not a higher I would have made. And then look, Joel Quenville is a terrific coach. You know, we're talking about Pete DeBore and his game seven record. Well, look at Joel Quenville's games five and six record. He never get to game seven pretty much because they always won late in series. He's a great coach. He ushered in this new era of speed-based hockey, possession-based hockey. He changed the way defensemen play the game with the way he worked Duncan Keith. Everybody tries to play like Duncan Keith did now. He's a terrific coach. There's no doubt about it. And I don't think that four years away is going to be a problem. I think the game has changed

that much in those four years. I get it. I get why you'd want Joel Quenville behind your bench. But I also don't think I'd want Joel Quenville in charge of the young men in my organization after what happened and the way he's talked about it. Well, let's go a little bit to the hockey side of that then because this is a very young team in Anaheim. It's an exciting young team, but it's a team that has some pressure on it to get out of this rebuild. How quickly do you think it's reasonable to expect that? I mean, he's like you said, he's been out of the league for a few years, but not by that much. What do you think the timeline here is for Anaheim clicking into gear a little bit? Well, it's really familiar, isn't? They kind of resemble the 2008, 2008, 2009 Blackhawks with the,

they've got enough guys that have been there for a few years now. They've got some young superstars waiting to explode. It sort of feels like that team. And Quenville took that team to the Western Conference final his first year and the Stanley Cup, his second year. I'm not saying you're going to do that in Anaheim, but he's in the right division. The Pacific Division is garbage after the top couple of teams, right? This isn't like he's in the central division trying to climb ahead of five excellent teams

in, you know, Winnipeg and Colorado and Dallas and St. Louis and Minnesota. He's got a path here. And I don't know. I could be wrong that maybe four years is too long to be away, and maybe the game has evolved subtly before my eyes where his system won't work quite as well. But I have reasonably, this is a good landing spot for him. It's kind of low-key.

There's not a lot of a spotlight. It'll be just like it was in Florida for him. He loved being in Florida and kind of being away from the spotlight and just going to the beach and playing tennis every day. Like, you could do that in Anaheim too. So I think this is a good landing spot for him from a hockey standpoint. And I think a lot of us already looked at Anaheim as the next good team to come out of the West, and having Quendville there could kind of supercharge that.

Yeah, I mean, you know, when we were talking about David Carl, I was saying, hey, if I'm David Carl, that's the one I've got circled as Anaheim. And all the same reasons certainly apply. I think it's a really good situation for anyone to walk into. But a lot of intrigue off the ice that we'll continue to watch there. That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show. Please, if you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and a review.

The Shons and Frankie have you covered for Wednesday. We'll talk to you soon.