The Athletic Hockey Show - Who are the NHL’s biggest breakout candidates this season?

Episode Date: September 30, 2024

Max and Laz pick which players are poised to take their games to the next level in 2024-25. Plus, The Athletic’s NHL insider Pierre LeBrun talks Swayman, Shesterkin, and the length of the preseason, and Jesse Granger makes his goalie breakout picks to close the show.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Pierre LeBrun and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. You know, Laz, I lobbied really hard today to get our show moved right to about 1 p.m. Eastern, just so that you would have to do this entire episode, eyes darting from screen to screen, TV to computer. You know, I have a soccer practice from my daughter that I have to coach today at 6 p.m. Central time. That could be literally like right at the moment that the Mets season is coming down to the wire in Atlanta. I am not going to do a good job tonight. I am almost a little envious of baseball that they ever have things like this, where the season gets extended into a do-or-die double header for both teams.

It's insanity. I mean, it's so bad. You might as well just introduce me on this show as Jesse Spanow, man. I am so excited. I am so excited. I am so scared right now. Well, first, we've got an athletic hockey show to do today. We're going to have Pierre LeBron join us in a little bit here.

We're going to talk about our breakout candidates for this. 2024-25 season. But the preseason is underway, and that means preseason injuries are underway. And already a couple big ones around the league, Drew Dowdy with the ankle, Patrick Lainey. We don't have a real update yet on him, a knee-on-nee collision that did not look good. What's your takeaway out of this? Yeah, I come to this every year.

And every year I come to the same conclusion is that you should never start any of your good players in the preseason. Just never. Just let the kids play, let the guys that are fighting for roster spots. I know that the players would hate this. Everybody wants to get a game or two under their belt, but this is what the NFL has come to, right? Like, you don't play your players maybe a couple of snaps in like the second

preseason game. But these guys, like, this isn't like the 1950s where these guys were working gas station jobs in the summer and have to get themselves into shape. They come into camp. They have played hockey. They are ready to go. I would be so nervous about my guys getting hurt out there that I would force them against their will to sit because, you know,

Linae, like, knees don't bend that way. And he didn't put any weight on it. And it's such an awful story because this guy's kind of overcome so much to get to this point. And he was so excited for a fresh start. And now who knows how long he's going to be on the shelf for for a game that was meaningless because he was going to make the team. Patrick Line was not fighting for a roster spot. If you're a head coach, would you have your guys in the preseason?

I'd actually take it a little different angle and say, I just don't think there should be this much preseason. Maybe two games of preseason. Edmondton plays like eight games every year. It's insane. Troy plays eight too. And they're playing a doubleheader tonight last. They have six games this week. They're playing games in two different cities just tonight. Now, that's due to a reschedule. Like, so it's not the intent, but it is ridiculous how many games there are. Yeah, this isn't spring training in baseball where it's a relatively safe sports play.

And, you know, you can have these intra-squad double-ed. Eight preseason games is absolute utter madness. Yeah, I think it's a cash grab, to be completely honest. I don't think it's about, right. I don't think it's about, right. I don't think it's about. Right. I don't, I don't think. it's really about the need at all, frankly. That's why there can be teams who only do four. And I think four would be a reasonable cap.

But I don't think hockey is a game you can play scared. I don't think you can play it with an idea of like, oh, avoid injuries. And I think if you sit, this is kind of my actually, I actually have this as an issue with NFL too. I don't like like, even though everyone knows who the stars on the team are, I don't like the idea of telling a certain group of your players, we don't care if you go out there and get hurt. We just can't have these four guys not get hurt.

It's not practical. I realize that, but this is an absolute disaster. Drew Dowdy, I mean, he's coming off a phenomenal year, just an absolute vintage throwback, Drew Dowdy on top of his game year, and the Kings are a team that are going to be fighting for a playoff spot. Now they won't have them until, I don't know, New Year's, maybe, who knows? And it's just, it's a disaster. It's an app, and it's one thing when John Tavares, you know,

blows out his leg in Sochi, in the Olympics. That's a game, I know that's a, that is technically an exhibition. game in the NHL's eyes. That is not a National League hockey game, a national hockey league game, but that is a real game of real consequence. And it's a bummer and it's awful, but at least there's a reason for him to be playing it. There's just no real reason to get these guys in other than, you know, get them warmed up. You can have scrimmages in the preseason, and you can have it with, you know, minimal contact, and you can get guys to develop some chemistry. And maybe it makes October hockey worse than it already is. I frankly love October hockey because

It's so messy and is mistake prone and it leads to some wacky wild games. I just, you got to protect your assets. These guys are $10 million athletes now. And to lose them in utterly meaningless games that nobody's even watching, it's just a disaster. Yeah, like the hard reality is they're going to happen in October or September. Like you're probably getting these injuries one way or another.

It's just the law of averages, right? But I do think if you cut this down, you could easily get away with two preseason games. If you actually played the guys that you think, it would be tough for the guys, I guess, who were trying to make a roster push, and that would be a letdown for those guys. And some of the players that are played in the preseason, it's the only experience they're going to get in an NHL sweater. And I am sympathetic to that.

I don't think it outweighs what you're talking about, though. I think if you just got two games to put your lines together, get the structure in flow against a real opponent, I think that's plenty, frankly, what you actually need when a season. And you can use the other, you know, you can have a couple of games that are designated like prospect games or, you know, guys that are on the bubble. Like there's ways to do this where you can limit the exposure of your actual NHL players. Because yes, it is absolutely true that every year, almost every team has one guy who just

has an absolute standout preseason and earns himself a job or leapfrogs a bunch of guys on the depth chart to become the first call up. And that's beautiful. Like that's one of the things we love about training camp in the preseason is seeing a guy like come out of nowhere. Like, wow, this kid's 18. He might get NHL games this year. Here in Chicago this year, it's AJ Spellise.

Last year it was Kevin Kornski who made it sure that he wasn't going to go back to junior because he had a really good camp. I don't want to take that away from guys that are fighting for spots because the preseason means everything to these guys. But from a team standpoint, I would not want my very valuable assets. And I hate calling people assets, but that's how owners look at them. I would not want to risk them. If you lose them in an October game, it sucks. It's awful. But at least it's part of the game. When you lose them in a meaningless exhibition game, it's like a hundred times worse. All right. Well, we are joined now by our NHL insider Pierre LeBron and Pierre, Pierre, let's just stick on that same topic here.

What do you think? Is the preseason too long right now? Obviously, it's easy to say that in the wake of the injuries, but I think it's something people say even regardless of the injury sometimes. It's way too long and it's way overdue for the NHL and HLPA to rectify that. I will say that there have been some preliminary discussions having nothing to do with what's happened with the injuries to Dowdy and Liny, but at the end of last season, the worst of preliminary discussions between officials from the league and the PA,

about the calendar in general. I don't know if you guys remember, but on July 1st, I actually, it was a worst day possible to tweet out news, but I tweeted out the fact that I knew that the league had approached the PA about a new-looking calendar for the next CBA in a couple of years.

The best part for me was that the season would start two weeks earlier, and the cup would be awarded by June 10th at the latest. But within the parameters of those, preliminary, preliminary discussions, very preliminary, but was that the preseason will be cut in half to a max of four games. And in return for that, both sides, you know, the idea was to go to from 82 to 84 regular season games. In other words, if you're going to play the games anyway because there's revenue

attached to them, then make them count. I guess it's the idea here as opposed to wasting everyone's time in preseason because, you know, the concept of preseason as our case, for a number of reasons, but, you know, obviously these players train year-round. They don't need the preseason to get in shape. But beyond that, there aren't really that many jobs available. I know that teams want that out there. They want the eye.

They want the carrot out for the young players. But the CBA and the salary cap decides so much of what we see. And then it's like, oh, at a great camp, but wanted to go down for more, you know, from more development. Well, of course, couldn't totally that in July. So, you know, preseason is too long. Players will tell you that. I think they're careful publicly about how much they want to say about that because, again, the revenues attached to all this.

But the reality is, I believe the majority of players would welcome preseason being minimized. And I think the league understands this. So we'll see. The CBA, you know, there's a new CBA in two years. The concept that I shared on July 1st, I don't know that it's gained a lot. attraction. We'll see where it goes. I'm going to ask about it at the board of governor's meeting this week to see where it's at. But yes, the idea that preseason should

be cut is actually a conversation that's being at. Yeah, you've been tilting at that windmill of getting the cup awarded by May 31st for years now. I'm right alongside you there. Like, this is, I don't remember you tweeting that because it probably because it was July 1st. I'm interested in this because how much say to the TV, you know, ESPN wanted to drag it out last year and TNT probably won the same thing. who has the ultimate authority in deciding how that playoff schedule is going to work? Yeah, that's a great point, Lazz. I mean, honestly, one of the reasons why the playoffs go so late

and the start of the regular season is delayed until the second week of October is because of ESPN. And they asked the league to wait, you know, because of all the baseball playoffs or everything else ESPN is committed to. That's the reason why it's, you know, it's so late now, you know. but you know that's a conversation that you know the league would have to have if they decide to move ahead and and advance the start of the regular season the next CBA you're asking with the hammer at the end of the day is always with the same group of people the executive committee of the owners that little group decides the world in hockey no they need an hLPA approval and a lot of things but when an idea comes out of out of the executive committee and then they say they're going to full board of governors for further discussion. There is no further discussion. The executive committee decides everything. So it would have to be them in conjunction with Gary Betman and Bill Daley that say, okay, we need to change the calendar. So let's say the executive committee just says, no, no, we want the cup

decided to we're going to start the season at the end of September and we're going to have the cup handed out by June 10th. Would ESPN say, fine, you're on our app. You're not even going to be on our air then. Yeah, it wouldn't be the end of September, but the matrix that's been to look that. The start of the year would be anywhere from October 1st to, I think, October 4th, first week finally, back to the first week. And yeah, the cup will be awarded two weeks earlier than it is now. That's what has been, again, discussed very gingerly. It's not in an advanced stage, I think, because there are so many different components to this, including I'm not sure where the commissioner is on this. I'd like to ask him.

I might do that, choose in New York. And, you know, the PA would have to have a number of conversations with every team. And it's always harder for the PA, right, because they got 700 voices, more than 700. So they really, this would be part of their full tour, I think, where the PA leadership, you know, asked players about this among other issues. I mean, let's be honest, the CBA is the number one issue in the fall tour for the NHLPA. and of course, ESPN. So there are a lot of check marks that everyone involved would have to go through,

but it is at least a fact that, you know, late last year, there have been these discussions about changing the calendar. So I know, I, for one, hope it happens for the next CBA. You alluded to the board of governors this week. Is there any, like, kind of big topics that people are especially attuned to here? Or is this sort of a wait and see what happens deal? Yeah, Max, so this is the quick one-day meeting that they have on the eve of the regular season every year in New York. It's a three-hour afternoon meeting, and it's pretty quick.

It's not the big one. The big one happens in December. This year, it'll be December 9th and 10th in West Palm Beach, and that's where they usually attack meteor discussions. In fact, that December meeting is usually when expansion gets announced. I'm not saying that'll happen this year. but that's the forum for bigger news. This quick meeting happening Tuesday in New York is really about updates.

I suspect from what I hear that within those updates, Gary Benman or Bill Daly will address the board and say, here are the cities that keep calling us about wanting us to start expansion, but the expectations is that the league still won't be in a position to announce that it has green lighted in the next phase.

That's not quite there yet, but I suspect it's coming down the road. I'm guessing this will be a quick answer, but we are legally required to ask you about Jeremy Swayman. Is there any movement at all there? Well, Swamen and Shosturkin. Come on. That's right. You can't ask about one and out of the other. I did check in on both those negotiations this morning.

So hopefully nothing changes by the time we publish this podcast. But status quo really in both, I think on the Swamen negotiation in particular, everyone involved is grinding away. which I guess you could take as a positive. I think they're trying to find, you know, that sweet spot. Still not done. I've always kind of thought now for about a week that the start of the regular season next week would be a real pressure point for both the Bruin, even though it's not a real deadline,

but kind of a pressure point for the Bruins and Swayman's camp. So they're grinding away. I think I'm a little surprised on the Rangers Shosturkenen because I think the number is obvious. I mean, the Rangers, as you guys know, I've indicated that they're willing to go north of Kerry Price. I don't know what's so complex. You know, maybe it's structure.

I'm not sure, but it's just not done yet. And, you know, how much higher than 10.5 does it need to be? And listen, to Shasturkin's defense and his camp, the cap is going up. It keeps going up. The dry cycle extension should have been a wake-up call to a lot of people that we're heading into a new phase now of these extensions.

You know, dry saddle left money on the table, by the way. Yeah. That could have been a higher number. And this is about

percentage of the cap and where the cap is being projected in particular by agents. So, you know, that's part of why Shasturkin feels emboldened to be asking for what he's asking

is because, you know, this is going to be a long-term deal and he doesn't, you know, and he wants it to be reflective of where he is on that team. So it's,

listen, I'm sure you guys beat it up last week, but the goalie position has been left behind a bit financially over the last few years. I mean, Conroy Halibuck at $8.5 million is a bargain for what he's delivered in the NHL. You know, you get first-line winger is making $11, $12 million a year or $10 million a year. But Conradalabach with two Vesna Trophies is at eight and a half, there probably needs to be a correction maybe.

And Igor Shasturkin is trying to deliver it for other goalie. I got to imagine the team side of it. of that though, Pierre, is like, yes, goalie is still the most important position on the ice. It's also the position that you're lessening how much you want your stars to play, right? You're going to give the highest paid goalie contract ever and hope he plays way less than Martin Brodera was playing in his prime. Hang on. And that's, you know, there are two things I think when I talk to front offices across the league.

And I've been kind of invested in this story. I remember writing about years ago about the Rooms being the first team to bring sports science to the crease, right? They were limiting two garasks starts and putting an actual number on it. Everyone's like, what is going on in Boston? Well, of course, they were way ahead of everyone. And now everyone jumped on the bandwagon years later. But because number one goalies now, generally speaking, the sports science suggests they should not play.

I mean, you guys give me a number, I think, these days, 65? Yeah, 55 to 60. you're not in net as often. So there seems to be a financial ramification to that. On top of that, there's so many teams doing the 1A, 1B that the second guy actually needs to be compensated more than he used to

because he's a higher quality number two. And so the cap allocation, teams look at it this way. Here's how much we want to spend in gold, period. And how we divied that up between 1A and 1B is, so that's affected. how the top goleys get paid. But there's another reason.

And I hear this all the time from people in H.L front offices. They just don't believe you can predict performance at that position like you used to. They feel a lot more strongly about their data on top defensemen

and top boards than they do about top goalies. That's just what I'm here. You don't have to agree. I'm still, I still think I know where Igor Shosturkin's going to be in the next few years.

But, but that is what you're hearing. that there's just sort of a reluctance to spend there because of the topsy-turvy nature of goalie performances. I mean, look, Ilya, Elyos Hirokin didn't even start for the Islanders in the playoffs last year. And Jake Ottinger was human last year. I mean, you really, it is unpredictably. You basically, it seems like you have like two categories of teams. You have the teams.

There's a handful of goalies that are true number ones. You're hellabucks, your Schisturkins, your Bobrovskys, where these are the guys. And then you've got 25 teams that are like, goalies are running backs. We can do this by committee. You know, you look at Vegas won the Stanley Cup with like four different goalies playing.

And that's the new norm. Right. There's just this delineation. There's like a handful of guys that make a difference and every other team is trying to save money by just not spending there. And I think one of the great examples, and it's a little more, you know,

layer than this. But I love to point this one out. Colorado wins the cup and walks away from Garcy Kemper. Yeah. Like that used to never happen. You know, you win a cup with a goal. your goalie has to be pretty good for your team to win a cup. And again, the avalanche did try to sign him, but they weren't willing to pay him.

Antonyemi has entered the chat. Well, exactly. And so we've seen it happen, but yeah, I think all the examples are. And, you know, you mentioned Mabroski, who was out of this world in helping Florida win the cup. But, you know, two and a half years ago, it's like, how are the Panthers going to get out of that contract? And that was like he's earned every penny on it. So listen, I get where the Bruins and Rangers are coming from. But, you know, those are pretty special goalies.

So what is the number that makes sense? And that Jerry Swamen has not proven any of this, by the way. He wants to be paid like a Schisturkin. He's never even been a number one. Like he wants number one money and he's never really been a number one. I mean, I feel like he was the one by the end of last year, to be honest. I feel like there was separation between him and Almarg by the end of the year. But yeah, you're right.

I mean, the interesting thing is, from what we can gather, Swyman wants to get paid more than what UC Saros just got in Nashville as an eight-year extension. Saros signing for 7.74 million a year. And Saros has the pedigree. He has the body of work where he's a true number one. But having said that, good on Jeremy Swayman, man. Like, goalies are, you know, goalies have taken it on the chin here, the last half decade.

And I think they're saying, dudes, you know, you guys need us. So I'm fascinated by both. It's happening in the Hall of Fame and now it's happening in contract negotiations. Yeah, yeah. But it's a fascinating time for these because we just covered it. But it's these are not your normal negotiations. There's so much more at play, I think, for the position at large.

Pierre, our main topic today is going to be a breakout players for this season. I know we're putting you a little bit on the spot here. But is there anybody that jumps to mind if I asked you for your breakout player prediction for 2020. So, yeah, I don't know if this guy qualifies, you guys can correct me, but I just think that if people in Ottawa know how good this player is, I think he's about to become one of those league-wide,

whoa, this guy belongs in the conversation, and that's Jake Sanderson. I think he's going to have one of those years, minutes-wise, performance-wise, you know, I've watched him in a couple of pre-season games, and I think he's going to the next level here this year, on a team that should be better too. So that would be my pick now.

I guess some people would say he's already established. I just feel like breakout, though. My point is I think he's going to be a player where fans and other markets are going to want to gobble him up in their fantasy trials. Let's put it that way. Yeah, I like that call because out of his draft year, I felt like, oh, this is one of the rare players

that I think can project to be like a Jacob Slavin-style defenseman. in the NHL, he might even have a chance at this point to surpass that. There's a little more offense to his game than I think he really ever got credit for on his way up. Yeah, I agree. And it was funny, we just talked about goldendning, but, you know, Allmark now being in that too, like, it helps the rest of your team so much, but you don't look over your shoulder. And, you know, senators have just not gotten enough saves the last few years.

And if Allmark can be that consistent guy in that, it helps everything else sort of happen the way it should, right? And it's funny because we just talked about how teams don't want to spend on gold inning. And yet when you don't have it, it's a self-destructive missile that you got Young D now, you know, not as sure about what they're doing because they don't know if they're going to get a save, all these things snowball. So I think, Omar, you know, if he can be, you know, that guy in Ottawa, that will help every single member of that blue line.

Awesome. Great stuff, Pierre. Thanks for joining us. We'll be right back and we'll talk about our breakout players for 2024-25. right on. All right, we are back. And Laz, today we're going to have our main segment be on the biggest breakout candidates in the NHL in 2024-25. We actually just did one of those whip around articles that we do, the all-32s for each team's biggest breakout candidate for 2024-25. I think we can probably use that as a kind of a soft guide. We won't hard limit to players listed there. But I think it's a good stage setter here.

So is there anyone off of that list or not on that list that you really feel strongly about it? as a breakout pick. Well, I think we need to clarify what exactly a breakout player is, right? Because it's easy to say McElagney or Matt Vei Michkoff are going to break out this year. But I don't think that's what we're really talking about. We're talking about guys that have been in the league for a year or two, have shown some promise, might have some decent numbers, but are poised to kind of take that leap into stardom where they become, you know, legitimate top line players, top pair players, number one goalies. I think that's the kind of guy we're looking for. And with that in mind, I start with Matthew Nyes in Toronto. I mean, he had 15 goals, 20 assists last. year in 80 games. He's already a pretty good NHL player, but I feel like this is the year where he becomes a star. I mean, he is sitting there on a line with Austin Matthews and Mitch

Marner. I mean, that might be the best spot to be in the league, short of being, you know, where Ryan Nugent Hopkins is with McDavid. You could not be in a better spot to at least, you know, accidentally score 70 points. They played 400 minutes together at 5 on 5 last year. The outscored teams 24 to 12. So there's a really good chance that that line sticks. And if that line sticks,

you know, there's how many assists will Nyes get just accidentally getting the puck over to Austin Matthews. How many pucks will Mitch Marner bounce off of him? And he's got his own skill and ability. I think he's poised for like a 30-something goal season, maybe 70, 80 points this year. I mean, look at Michael Bunting's first year in Toronto and then it was same kind of circumstances. 63 points for a guy, I think, a very similar profile to Nise.

Nize might even be a little more purely talented than Michael Bunting. So I do like that call. I think it's a good role. That's one that our fantasy listeners are going to be keenly attuned to. And by the way, we just had our staff fantasy draft last night. Scott Wheeler rigged it. It's a whole, it's a long con. He had drafted his entire team of 16 guys.

I had five at the time and Jake Leonard had four. This is just, it's a total scam. Chicago Blackhawks Beatwriter learns that it's good to stockpile draft picks. I didn't realize just how egregious some of these fire sales were last year. My God. It was tough. But yeah, no, I do like the nice call. So I think that's a good one to start with.

Now, when you gave that definition, I did have to go back to my own list really quick and go, I got a lot of top 10 picks on here. Yeah, I got Yerislevkovsky. I've got a rookie on mine too. I've got Yerislevkovsky is probably my top from this list. And some of that is, you know, I was going, you know, tried to stay fairly true to this list that we published. But I thought the way that Yerislevkovsky finished last season was really a sign of a breakout to come. He's getting into kind of his quote-unquote.

man body now, a term that I picked up from an NHL coach a while back and has worked its way into my lexicon. And just the way he finished. He's got so many tools. It seems like once that clicks for you at the NHL level, you can kind of tap back into that. He's got a great role similar to what you're just saying

about Nyes with Nick Suzuki and Cole Coffield, or at least we expect that he will be. So I got Slavkovsky in like the 70 point territory this year. It could be like he's coming off a 50 point year. He had a pretty decent year. Like you said, he closed really strong. It feels like it could be one of those like, Tim Stutzla kind of jumps where he goes from, oh, this guy is really, he's good, he's all right to, oh my God, he's great.

Like, it really could be that second, third year bump that we see from a lot of these guys. Yeah, 35 points, including 16 goals in his last 40 games. I don't think I need to tell anybody what that translates to over a full 82 game season. Back to you here on the next breakout, though. All right, I'm going to violate my own rule here and talk about a rookie who's played one regular season game and one playoff game. But you have to pick a Dallas star in this category every year because they have perfect system. They have this really good deep team and they've drafted really well and they put

guys into a line with good players with good habits and they immediately succeed. We saw it with Wyatt Johnston. We saw it with Logan Stankovin and this year we're going to see it with Maverick Bork. Maverick Bork right now he's skating with Jamie Ben and Stankovin. So this is this great mix of speed and savvy and experience and youth. You know, Bork led the AHL in scoring last year at 77 points and 71 games. Now, we all know that there's a lot of 4A guys who don't make that translation to the NHL, but this guy, he's going to follow that same path that Johnson and Stankov ended. He's probably going to score 50, 60 points right off the bat this year on a team like that. The Dallas stars are an absolute factory of young talent. Like, it doesn't matter where they drafted them. They draft

smart, and then they put them in a position to succeed. You look at a team like that we cover, we cover some really bad teams that just threw these young guys onto really bad teams, and they pick up bad habits and it takes years for them to become what they can be because of that. That doesn't happen in Dallas. Jim Nill has an absolute machine built there. All right. So I came on here ready to kind of argue this one. I thought that was actually a pretty good sales pitch. And I do like Bork as a player. It's really hard to argue with the year he had in the HL last year. It was outstanding. I kind of have a pet theory though. And it originated in baseball, but I'm starting to kind of wonder if you can cross apply it a little bit that when a team has

a run of really successful development over a few years, we start to assume that that's going to be every single guy, that's fair. And I think about like, you know, the Dodgers had a few hits like that. And then all of a sudden, every Dodgers prospect is a top 100 prospect.

And they trade them. And then you don't really actually hear from them after that. And some of that's just the nature of prospects. Right now I would argue the Baltimore Orioles are in that position after the success with like Gunner Henderson and Colton Couser and the like. but I was kind of ready to make that case about Bork and the stars, but I really do like that fit on the on the stank of it and Ben line. I think that's an ideal way for a guy like him to break into the league.

And we see a lot of times where if you're good enough to, if you are leading the HL and scoring, it's usually because you're not quite good enough to play in the NHL. We see that a lot, but not with really young guys. Those guys are you 23, 24, 25 years old. So I really feel like Bork is on the right trajectory and in the right organization. My only thing is like 510 center in that role. I just think it's a little tough to be that confident there.

But the offense was certainly there in the HL. And if he has to move to a wing at some point, I don't think that's good. Yeah, and Jamie Ben can handle the rough stuff for him. Yeah, I think that's a fair call. All right. My next one, I'm going to go with Dylan Genther. I think this is probably arguably cheating. Like, I thought Genther had a really good year last year already.

The contract that came maybe says I can't even pick him a breakup. But I do think just him and coolly together are going to elevate again. And I think where he was at in the, obviously, Arizona certainly, or Utah certainly believes that that's where he's at. By giving him this contract, there's just another step there for me. And I think those two will do it together. And I think, you know, we talked about Utah's potential sleeper team last week. He's a big reason why. Yeah, I mean, he was, you know, a little, a little under a point to game last year in about half a season in the NHL. He stepped right in and didn't seem to be overwhelmed by it at all and he's going to be on a better team this year.

It's a tough road to hoe in the Central Division, but I do think Utah is going to be very competitive and Gunther is well on his way to superstard him. Does BetMGM have a line producer Chris on when I will stop calling Utah, Arizona this season, over under February. Mid-December, yeah. The Utah Yotes. I'll take the over on that one.

All right, Lance, back to you. All right. I'm going to go with Jack Quinn in Buffalo. We've been waiting for Buffalo to have their big jump for it feels like a decade and a half now. Like we're just one of these years, Buffalo is going to be what we think Buffalo can be. And I think this line that they're on right now, Jack Quinn with Zach Benson and Dylan Cousins, all top 15 picks in the last five years. This is like the Buffalo experience in a nutshell. Here is all this promise, all this talent, all this excitement. and we're waiting for it to kind of come to fruition. You know, Quinn, he only played in, I think, 27 games last year, but he was on a 30-goal pace.

He had that Achilles injury, and I think he had another lower-body injury. But this is such a tantalizing line. And if Buffalo is going to take that next step, it's going to be like that trio. That's going to, we already know what Tage Thompson can do and everything, but it's going to be that trio, which really kind of elevates them into that next level. Okay, I like the call.

I've got a different Buffalo Sabre from the 2020 draft class on my list here. And you could argue this guy broke out last season, too, J.J. Paturka, but I think there's another level in here. He's going to play on the top line. He's proven to be a little bit more durable so far in his young career. But he had 28 goals last year, and he only shocked 12.4%. That is not like some unsustainable fluke jump at all. Like, Petrka really made a huge splash last year that didn't get noticed. And so I guess what I'm really calling here is that people are just going to notice this next step that he takes, which I think takes him from, I think he finished the year last year, 50 points. I think we're talking over 60 here and that's enough to get you really on the

on the national radar as one of these breakout guys. God, there's so much young talent in Buffalo. There's so much exciting play. How are they just always in that 11th place, 10th place? Like, it's, what is, what is in the water there? What Indian burial ground was their arena built on? Why will not this, why can't this team take the next step? Every, I know Detroit and Ottawa are feeling like they're on that same

treadmill every year. But my God, you look at that Buffalo and there's so, many exciting young players that aren't even that young anymore. I mean, we're talking 23, 24 year olds at this point. It's time. It's time for Buffalo to do this. I mean, the answer probably is that it's so much concentrated young talent here. And I think they made a real attempt to address that this summer, honestly, in trading for Ryan McLeod. I think that people thought that trade was lopsided in Edmonton's favor, I think, because of Matt Savoy and it's a top 10 pick going the other way. But I think if you just look like what does Buffalo need, the answer was not another Matt Savoy

type, even though I think he is a good prospect. They did need a Ryan McLeod type. And I think that he's a big part of trying to address exactly what you're talking about there. I mean, the trick, of course, and we've talked about this with the Red Wings, too, and the senators is who's going to drop out of the playoffs in the East? Because these teams aren't getting any worse anytime soon. Everyone every year says it's going to be the Islanders, and the Islanders never seem to fall out of that seventh or eighth spot. So someone's going to have to take a step back. Maybe it's Tampa. Who knows for one of these teams to make that jump into the playoffs? You mentioned Ottawa. I thought about going for breakout.

There are new vice president of communications. You may know. I am going to go with the guy that Eric Duhatrick picked as their breakout pick in that article. And that's Shane Pinto. I like that call. I think Pinto had a good year last year after he got going. But the late start, I think we underrate the late start a ton on how much it affects guys. And in a full season, I think Shane Pinto easily has 55 plus points in him for the Ottawa

It might be even a little bit more than that. Would you say it would be safe to bet on that? Ooh, I might not in that specific context, but if we get into a later segment, you might be able to convince me to say it then. So we've got two breakout candidates for Ottawa, two breakout candidates for Buffalo. I'm telling you, every year we fall into this trap, every fall, all three of those teams are going to make the playoffs. They're all going to make that leap, and they never do.

I hope they do. I want to see some new blood in these playoffs. I want to see a handful of new teams. I'd love to see Utah get in. I'd love to see Buffalo, Detroit. I'd love to see I want to see Little Caesar's Arena in a playoff game. It's this gorgeous, perfect arena, and they've had nothing but crap to watch for what it's been open for five years now.

I mean, you should have seen down the stretch last year in late March. And March was a bad month for them. They had the playoff spot and they threw it away in March. But in some of those games in April particularly, there was a game. We got back to back, I think it was against Montreal to end the season, home and home. And the home side of that, there was like this thrilling comeback. They win it in OT. I think that happened on the road, too, actually.

But the place was just rocking. It was, and I've never covered a playoff game in my career. So that was brand new for me. And that wasn't even a playoff game. Yeah. But it was rocking. And I agree with you. I think whenever they get there.

And I honestly, we've talked about, I don't really think this is the year for that. But it could happen. Whenever it happens, that place is going to be a madhouse. That is wild to me that you've never covered a playoff game, that you cover the Detroit Red Wings. And you've been there for a while now, and you've never covered a playoff game. Only postseason event I've covered in any sport was the 2014 softball super

regional, my freshman year at the Michigan Daily. You are, it's the kiss of death. It's funny, when I started on the Hawksbeat, I started in the lockout season in 2013. So I walk into the beat. The Hawks opened the season 21-0-N-3. I had just covered a 12-0-N-O-N-Roe football season. So the Hawk go 210-0-N-3, and then they win the Stanley Cup.

There were literal blogs in Chicago that were writing stories about me. I was like, Chicago's good luck charm. And then they go to overtime of game seven of the conference final the next year, and then they win the cup again the next year. And people used to love me on the spew. Long before I was the most hated person in the world, I was like beloved because the Hawks couldn't lose when I was around. Like, I was the good luck charm.

You're like the total. I was going to say how come that nickname didn't stick a little longer. No, no, not beloved, not lucky anymore. How about that? I'm going to stay in Chicago, though. And I'm always wary with these kinds of, when these kinds of topics, talking of a national perspective about being kind of like, you know, my judgment being clouded by what I see every day.

I'm going to go with Lucas Reichel here with the Blackhawks. This is the number one pick, and I think it was 2020. He came over. He immediately looked really good in Rockford. and then he came up at the end of 2022-23, and he looked dynamite. He had seven goals, eight assists in 23 games. He's fast. He's creative.

He's aggressive. He's cocky. He's confident. All this stuff. He's going to be this great player for them. He's going to be this linchpin in the top six for years to come. And then last year, it's a total disaster. He's in his own head.

His confidence is shot. Luke Richardson is putting him on the fourth line because he can't keep up. He had five goals in 65 games last year, just 16 points. A total disaster. But this year, he is no longer waiver exempt. So there's no way he'll be sent to Rockford because they would lose him in a heartbeat because he's just too talented, too young. He is going to have to play in a top six role, maybe a top nine role at best. Now the Blackhawks have signed some guys that can play.

So he's going to be either playing with like a Taboravinen or a Taylor Hall. He probably won't get much run on Bedard's line. That didn't work out so well last year. Maybe Andreas Athanasiou, who he showed great chemistry with. He has to be put in a position to succeed this year. a more offensive role. And if he can get out of his own head, I mean, this is a kid. We see this with a lot of young guys where there's a confidence issue.

And he was in his own head for all of last season. He never busted out. He's coming to camp. I think he sounds a little more confident. He sounds like he's refreshed. He is a guy who is a capable, absolutely capable of being a 20 goal score in this league, maybe more 50, 60 points. He has all the tools.

He's just got to get out of his own head. All right, I got to pivot on my next one. There's too much star power in this group. The more I read it, I am going to. to dump the Leo Carlson pick, but remember that I made it. And I'm going to pivot to JJ Moser in Tampa. I'm buying what Shanea Goldman was selling in this article here. Moser was already a good player when he was in Arizona.

And I think it was just there wasn't that many people paying attention. This is a guy who was picked in 2021 as an overager, came right into the league and really has had success every single year. He's been a big minute guy for them, put up a little bit of offense. Now you're going to drop that guy in next to Victor Headman and his life's to get easier and he's going to be on a little bit more of a stage. And I think another guy who I think is already good and is now going to start to get the credit for just how good he is.

It's tough to be a break. I mean, you're absolutely right. I think that's a great pick. But it's tough to be a quote unquote breakout guy when you're not a big point producer. Like it's like Alex Vlasic last year in Chicago did that. He had a huge breakout season last year. But it's not something you, it's not easy to quantify, right? But I think you're, you know, yes, on a better team with a much better defensive

partner, he is going to have just. His underlying numbers next, this coming year are going to be fantastic. Yeah, we're going to start to see him on some of those little like analytics list that tell us who we have to vote for the Norris and we're like, what? And then you go looking like 58% expected goal share. Yeah, that's exactly what he's going to be. Yeah. And he won't get, he'll be like, it'll be like a Gustav Forsling kind of year. You know, you could see that kind of year coming from it where he's just all around like, oh my God, everything this guy does is successful.

We're going to have Jesse Granger on shortly here. And I know that he's going to pick a goalie when we ask him about this. category. Do you want to beat him to the punch? I do. I'm picking a goalie. I'm picking Peotor Kachekhov in Carolina. Largely because I don't trust Freddie Anderson. I never have since the 2015 Western Conference Final when I saw him, you know, melt into a puddle in the crease when Jonathan Taves just broke his brain. But you can't, Freddie Anderson has played what, just 50 regular season games the last two years. You can't count on him to be healthy. He's been really good. Every time he's healthy, he's really good. But you just, you can't count on

them. And I know, I think people are sleeping on the hurricanes this year. I know they lost a bunch in free agents. That's another team that's just like a machine where they're just going to churn out guys that fit their system. They're still going to be successful. And they are very, very goalie friendly. Like, that's a team you want to play for if you're a goalie, because all the shots are going to come from way out in the perimeter. Hardly anyone's going to get into the slot on you. You're not going to face nearly as many high danger chances. And Kachkov showed last year that he can be a really good goal. He was on my Calder ballot. last year. And I think this is the year he takes over as the true number one on a team that's

still going to be very good and that's still going to make the playoffs. And he's going to kind of take that net and run with it. I think it's a good call. I think you have a good chance to be right. But when was the last time the hurricanes had like a consistent year to year, like true number one that's not having something weird go wrong or someone unseeding them for half the see? Like it seems like they're kind of a revolving door the last several years. They're one of those teams. Like we were talking about with Pierre where they don't seem to put that high of a priority on the goaltender position. They think they're there in that goalies are running backs mindset where we can make our team

so good in front of them that an average replacement level goalie will do very well for us and be enough for us to win. And it's true. It has. It hasn't in the postseason. Just like they never have like a true number one sniper. That's why they finally went out and got Gensel last year. But they also never had a true star goalie since, I don't know, did Cam Ward even count?

I mean, he had that amazing playoff run 20 years ago. but he's never been a number true star goalie. The hurricanes just don't put that high of a priority on goaltending because they think that their team system elevates a goalie. And they're right. It has time and time again. It's when you get to like the second third round of the playoffs that that gets exposed a little bit. Right.

They hop from Peter Morazdick to Alex Nadelcov to Freddie Anderson, Donty Ranta. So this year, let me checkoff. I'm not talking about breakout for the rest of his life. I'm talking about this year. Fair enough. All right, let's take a break right there. We'll come back with Jesse Granger. All right, we are back, and we are joined now from Las Vegas by Jesse Granger for our

Granger Things segment presented by BetMGM. First question, Jesse, how long we keep in this segment name? What happens in 2030? And this show's not on the air anymore? See, I've never seen an episode of Stranger Things. I didn't even know that the show is not on the air anymore. I'll be completely honest. Well, no, there'll be one last year.

No, I'm saying in the future, like like five years. from now what happens yeah yeah it is still on the air okay yeah as you can see my stranger things knowledge i i don't know what we're gonna do i'm gonna have to find another show that i don't watch the right it's like when the kid went from like 10 years old to 11 years old but they shot up to be six feet all over in between season that doesn't fit anymore that's the name now what we're we're using yeah dr grange marvell's never going away we can probably pull that right all right we're uh we're talking breakout players today jessey and i know you you kind of got the goalie wheelhouse here so las did snipey

you on one with Kachekhov. You got a lot of their breakout goalies for 2024-25. Yeah, the first one that comes to mind is a guy that I was just thinking about the other day because of the news around John Gibson. John Gibson goes has emergency appendectomy and

I thought this guy was going to be a breakout Canada before that. Now we don't know how much time Gibson's going to miss, but I imagine even if he is ready eventually they're going to ease him back into things. I expect Lucas Dostal in Anaheim to have a big year. He really got a taste of NHL action last year. You see like a legitimate amount of games. He didn't just

get thrown in one or two. And I thought he looked really good. His underlying numbers, goal saved above expected all of that was really impressive, especially when you can compare it to Gibson. Obviously, playing behind Anaheim, you're not going to be putting up amazing goalie numbers, but you compare a young guy breaking into the league and he's outperforming John Gibson, who we can argue whether Gibson's elite or anymore, but he's still a very good veteran goalie, who's, I think, a good measuring stick for a young goalie. So Lucas Dostal, I expect him to get a little more this year. Even before the Gibson injury, now with that, he may be the starter for the first month. We don't know. But I really like what I've seen out of him. And I think he can give Anaheim a little bit of juice. Like, that team just

seems like it needs some juice. And I think a new goalie can help. It's really dicey to be a young goalie on a bad team, though. We saw that last year in Chicago with Arvid Soder Bloom, who the Black Hawk saw as a future number one. He won four games out of like 30-something starts. It can really wreck a goalie's confidence to be on a bad team, which leads me, I'm going to guess your next one. Okay. A young goalie on a good team. I'm thinking Eustace and Noon is going to be on your list. He sure is.

There you go. That's a great transition. That is a great transition. And it's for all the reasons you just said. I don't think there's a team in the league. Maybe Vegas when Vegas won the cup, but I don't think Vegas is where it used to be. There isn't a team in the league that makes it easier on its goalie than the Colorado avalanche.

We have seen every goalie that goes through Colorado has a career year. year. Gru Bauer was a Vezna finalist. Seattle gives in the bag. Didn't work out. Darcy Kemper goes in, wins the Stanley Cup. Washington gave him the bag. Didn't work out. These aren't bad goalies. They just aren't as good as Colorado's making them look. I think that Justice Anoon in last year in a small sample size looked very good. Georgiev's playing way too many games. That's just, I think he had 159 games or something the last three years. It's he, I think he's second behind Connor Hallibuck, which Connor Hellebuck deserves that workload. Alexander Giorgiye is a good goalie,

but he should not be playing as many games as Connor Hellebuck. So I expect Colorado to correct that a little bit this year, give Justice Anuna a few more games. And I've yet to see a goalie that doesn't look awesome behind the abs. So I'm just assuming Anunin's going to look awesome with the increased workload. To your point on that, like, 908, say percentage last year in the H.L. With the Colorado Eagles in 23 games,

he goes up to the NHL, supposed to get way harder in the NHL, 928 with the Colorado Avalanche at that point. So your save percentage pops in a huge way going up probably because of T. I feel like you see that a fair bit where it's really hard to have a really high save percentage in the HL because it's such a ragged league. You know, it's the quality of the defense and the, I always feel like it's really hard to judge a goalie based on their minor league stats. Less predictable, right? Like goaletting is all about predicting the play in front of you. and in the HL, those guys don't do what they're trying to do half the time.

So it's hard to predict what they're going to do. You get to the NHL and all of a sudden the plays that are actually trying to develop happen in front of you. Anunin, you mentioned his save percentage. That's the highest of any goal in the league with 10 or more starts now. He barely hits that threshold. But very impressive in the little bit of time he's got. The third guy I'd like to mention is kind of a different category because Anunin and Dostal are names that like some average hockey fan may have not even know who these goalies are. of breaking into the league. The third guy, Uco Peco-L-L-L-U-U-Col.

It has been a starting goalie for a while. I think he has a chance to take a step up to another tier to where we think of him as one of the better goalies in the league. Now, betting on good things to happen for Buffalo doesn't usually go well. This is the third Buffalo Sabre that's been mentioned as a breakout candidate in this podcast alone. Yeah, we've been waiting for the Sabres to break out since I've been alive. So the chances of this happening, maybe not 100%, but I've heard so many good things about Pecco-Lukon. I was talking with a goalie coach that's worked with him over in Europe this summer. And he mentioned, I've never worked with a smarter goalie in my life just in terms of the way he processes the game.

Very, very patient, smart goalie who diagnoses what's happening him and gets in good position. He's a big guy, athletic enough. He's not super athletic, but athletic enough. I think Buffalo, I think they're going to take a step forward defensively. I don't know if they're going to take a step forward in terms of making the playoffs. The East is so stacked. Every time you pick someone to jump into the playoffs, you've got to pick someone to fall out. And I don't know who the hell is going to fall out.

But I like UPL. I think that there's a real chance that this year he, we think differently about him at the end of the year than people do at the start of the year, which right now I think people think of like, okay, starting goalie, nothing special. But I think he really has a chance to be one of the better goalies in the league. I like that. That's really what we're talking about when we talk about a breakup. a guy who's taking that next step to stardom, who went from pretty good to really good. That's the kind of year we're looking for.

So that's a good one. I also love the arc of guys like Luchanan because he is a guy who I think has been labeled a placeholder to Devin Levi. And he is giving you the, no, I am a real goalie and I'm really good. And I had a 9-10 and 54 starts last year. And by the way, I might have more in-me treatment now. Yeah, definitely. And the final guy I'll mention, same kind of arc. we know who he is. He was just in the cup final. So Stuart Skinner and Edmonton,

but I think people see him as, well, he was drugged to the cup final by Connor McDavid and Leon Drysaddle, which isn't 100% false. It did happen. And his save percentage wasn't great in the playoffs, but I think that Skinner is better than we give him credit for. I think that after going through that playoff run, I think he learned a lot. At one point in that playoff run, he almost lost his job to Calvin Pickard. That is a wild thing about. That is a traumatizing experience for some goalies. And the way he handled it really, really impressed me. I think that he could have just completely falling apart.

You almost lose your job to a guy that's been a career backup journeyman. And then all of a sudden, they turn back to you. And all of a sudden, it's on your shoulders again. And the weight of this Edmonton team that's expected and the way the contracts are working with dry saddle, it's like, this is their one chance. a lot of pressure on a young goalie that had never done it. And I thought he performed really well down the stretch in the playoffs. I think that having gone to that cup final and gone.

And I thought he played well against Bobrovsky. I don't think he was the reason Edmonton didn't win that series. So I think that that going into this year is going to be super, super helpful for him. And I expect him to, again, take that next step, be one of the better goalies in the league. And he's a workhorse. He can play a ton of games. So I expect him to play a bunch of games with Pickard still. being his backup. He's one of those guys where he's either going to take that step to

start in this year or he's going to come crashing down to earth, right? Like this is the year that we find out exactly who Stuart Skinner is behind that mustache. He's either going to, you know, what we saw in the playoffs because we saw the good and the bad. And, you know, he came so close and didn't win the cup. A lot of guys have trouble bouncing back from that. He had a huge workload. He, you know, played 20-something more games than most goalies did because of that playoff run. And we're going to learn a lot about him, I think, this year. And when I look at Stuart Skinner, the interesting thing to me is, so Edmonton are plus 600 favorites to win the president's trophy, best odds in the league to win the president's trophy. They have their point total for this season.

Their betting point total is 108 and a half, which is the highest in the league. The next highest is 103.5 for the star. So they're a considerable amount higher. They are expected to win the most games of any team in the league by a good amount. And yet, Stuart Skinner has the 19th. best odds to win the Vezina at 50 to 1. They're both Carolina goalies are above him. Charlie Lindgren in Washington is above Stuart Skinner in Vesna odds.

Now, I don't think Stuart Skinner is going to win the Vesna. I think if you're looking at long shots out there to win these trophies, it's hard to find long shots. Like the heart trophy, can you find a long shot? Like, we know the four or five guys that are probably going to be in there at the end. It's very difficult. I think if you're looking for someone 50 to 1 to win an award, Stuart Skinner on a team that's supposed to win the most games in the league.

And he's going to be their workhorse. They are not, this is not a tandem. And don't forget, the general managers vote on this award, and they value wins more than people who actually understand hockey do. So that plays very much. This is not a writer-voted award. This is a GM-voted award. And we saw that with Alina's Olmark a couple of years ago.

They value wins above just about anything else. So you give me a guy who you know is going to get 50-something starts. You know he's good. Well, in all likelihood, he's going to be on a very good team and rack up the wins. Now, if he has a 901 safe percentage, he's not going to win the Vesna. But I expect Stuart Skinner to take a step and be a better goalie. If that all happens, he should be in the conversation. The fact that he's in the bottom half of the starters in the league in Vesna odds is crazy to me. Do you think he'll ever get the credit, though?

We see other players on teams with stars have a really hard time wrestling any credit away from the one or two huge names around them for a record like that. Lina Soltmark did it in I mean, Boston, they've got, they had some stars with Bergeron and Marshan and all that. And Olmark wasn't seen at like prior to that Vezza. Year, nobody really thought of Linus Olmark as as one of the top goalies in the league. I mean, he didn't, I think Stuart Skinner is more established now than Olmark was when he got to Boston. So yes, I think it's, I do agree with you that that's the challenge for him is, is getting credit for Edmonton. It's Corey Crawford's syndrome. It's going to be the same idea where even if he's really good, nobody will.

ever give him, nobody will ever point to him and say, that's why Edmonton's really good. Right. And like I said, I don't, like, is he more likely to win the Vezina than Igor Shasturkin or, or the favorites, Jake Ottinger? No, he isn't. Like, I, I don't think Skinner's in that category yet, but I just think there's a lot of ingredients there that make for, at the end of the season, we're going to be looking at it and saying, how the hell was this guy 50 to 1 to win the Vesna? Well, and the other thing, I mean, Laz brought up the wins factor. You're not supposed to include an event like the Four Nations faceoff. in Vesna voting.

But if he is the starting goalie for Canada and is really good and they win, like I challenge anybody to take that completely out of your decision-making process when you see something like that when you talk about an award like the Vesna. Well, that's what we can get some credit. If he plays well in that,

all of a sudden, they'll transfer it over and give him some credit for the Oilers. All right, I'm going to derail this conversation really quick because I got a gripe here. Drew Dowdy gets hurt, right? And it's awful. Like, this is a team that had playoff hopes and one of their best players gets hurt.

and it's awful to see. And all anyone's talking about is, will he be ready for the Four Nations faceoff? Will he be back to play for Team Canada? And who gives a crap about the Four Nations face off? The L.A. King's season just went in the toilet. And all anybody wanted to talk about was the freaking Four Nations face off, a made-up phony tournament that doesn't even include all the teams that play hockey.

I don't, this is, I hope it's a fun. It's basically going to be a giant exhibition tournament. I hope it's fun. But let's all calm down on the four-nation. Well, it just depends on. If the players treated like the Olympics, it'll be lit. I guess. Do people still say lit?

I just did. I think that means you're finally aging out of youth. Max, do you think that, what do you think? What do you like, I don't know if you've spoken to any of the guys. I was talking to Jack Eichl about it the other day and he seems pretty excited. Like, do you think the players are going to get into this and treat it like it's the Olympics? I think they're so starved for the best on best feel, for the feel of wearing their, their countries. you know, crest on their

flag or on their, on their jersey, I should say, that they will. And I think they also know that it's for a lot of these guys, now Ikel's probably on the Olympic team anyway. But for a lot of the guys who are like, feel like they're auditioning for an Olympic team. Those guys are going to go super hard. I do think they're going to care. And I think it's going to be pretty entertained.

I hope it is. I hope I'm proven wrong here. I just, I feel like it's, it's kind of cheapening the Olympics in 2026. Like that should have been the first time. I know there's money to be had. And when there's money to be had, money's going to go get gotten. and get gotten.

But I kind of wish that our first return to this best on best was in Italy in 2026. I feel like this, it doesn't cheap in it, but it kind of undermines it just a little bit. I hope it's really fun. I hope the players take it seriously. I hope I get into it. I hope everyone loves it. I just, I'm skeptical. That's all.

You know, as we're talking about international competition here, Jesse, I just had a thought about the first guy you mentioned Dostal. He won the world championship with Chequia this past spring. And as you talked about kind of the common. and how that can affect the goalie. But he's going to come in on like a huge high from delivering this massive international glory to his country. Like I wonder if that's a little bit of a low key factor for him too is he's going to be

coming in as confident as he's probably ever been. 100%. I think that helps a ton. And I think that like you mentioned about like how excited they are to play with their country's banner on their jersey. I think that those events help players careers. Like you see it in soccer in the World Cup. I'm not super deep into soccer.

but guys that don't play for big major Premier League teams have a good season for for whatever country they play for. And all of a sudden, they're like a superstar. I think these international tournaments, best on best, have a chance to really show us some guys. And like, especially guys that don't play for Canada or the U.S., especially once we get into the Olympics and we get more countries into it, obviously outside of this four nations. But Dostal, I think the combination of the summer you had, plus I think Gibson getting hurt

and him are getting sick. I don't know what we call an appendectomy, but Gibson being out and can give him a little bit different of a dynamic, like being the guy. Like Gibson's not here. This is your team for the first month. He, I think, is the goalie they want to be their guy when this team is winning games. Like they're still in the middle of a rebuild.

They're not there yet. The ducks are probably not going to be very good this year. But I think in their vision, when this team is ready to win, Lucas Dostal is the franchise goalie. And I think that this year, especially if Gibson missed significant time, he has a real chance to cement himself as that guy. And that's an exciting opportunity. Like, yes, Gibson's going to come back at some point in this season.

He and I are probably going to split games. But I can show that without Gibson here, I can be the guy. And I'm excited to see what he does with it because he's a super talented goalie. Great stuff, Jesse. That was Granger Things. And that's going to do it for us on this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Thanks for listening. Please leave us a five-star rating interview if you're in

joining the show. Next episode is tomorrow. We got a special prospect series. We'll talk to you soon.