The Athletic Hockey Show - Who are the NHL’s most surprising rookies?

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

Corey’s latest NHL Draft rankings are out and with them comes yet another new No. 1 in OHL defenseman Chase Reid. The guys break down what has been a chaotic year of rankings and discuss why there��s been so much movement from list-to-list. Before that, they talk about this season’s most surprising, and disappointing, NHL rookies and dive into the race for second place behind Matthew Schaefer in the Calder conversation. Plus, listener questions in the mailbag to close things out. Hosts: Max Bultman, Corey Pronman, and Scott WheelerWith: FloHockey’s Chris PetersExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside the athletics. Corey Promont and Scott Wheeler and Flow Hockey's, Chris Peters, for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. We got a lot to get to today. Corey's got a new draft ranking out. We got some mailbag questions we want to get to. But first, guys, I want to spend this first segment.

Just talking about the rookie class. And I think, Corey, if we made this a Calder discussion, it would be a pretty short segment. It does feel like as good as Beckett's Senate. has been lately, this is Matthew Schaefer's award to lose. So let's start there. And he's the player who, you know, he's the first overall pick in the last draft. And usually that guy comes into the year as at least a co-favorant for the Calder. That wasn't the case for Schaefer.

He's done this by really exceeding the timeline of his expectations more than we ever could have guessed. I remember in the preseason, we were talking about, like, well, is he going to get the power play opportunity because they have Tony DeAngelo on this team? Like, is he getting able to steal all the ice time away from Tony DeAngelo? and obviously that looks like a ridiculous take in hindsight given the level of offencey, level of impact that Schaefer has had. Yeah, so like I agree with you. Like I don't think this is much of a debate in terms of who's going to win the Calder.

I think it's Schafer, even though I think goals and points wise, he's close with Seneca, like in terms of overall impact, especially as a defenseman. Like I think he's like the runaway favorite at this point. I mostly could be egregious to vote for anybody else, be perfectly honest. Yeah, egregious. he also, you know, you look at the ice time, you look at the production, the age, the fact that he's doing this off of a season where he only played less than half of it, it's still stunning to me to see how good he has been this quickly.

And, I mean, what a credit to the work that he put in to be this good. But, I mean, 20 goals was not on my radar. I mean, he's got more points in the NHL. than he ever did in the OHL in his career, right? So like it's insane. Has it been like two years in a row now where we've had debates in like the spring about whether the predict number one should go back and play another year? And then they come to the NHL and they're just dominant right away.

Just better than everybody. The goal's piece of the puzzle, like forget that how quickly he's done all this and the age and the games played last year. Even in the prime of his career, I wasn't sure that a year ago this time, I saw Matthew Schaefer as a defenseman who was going to score 20, 25 goals in an NHL season. Like that part of it is just, and maybe he won't, maybe the next couple of years he'll have 10 to 15 goals and that'll be the baseline. And maybe he won't do this every year. But the fact that he's done that is almost incomprehensible to me.

And he's like he's, he's changed that entire, like if you look at the east, them with Sorokin and the way that those guys are going, I know they're not a perfect team, but. I wouldn't want to play them in a first round series. And I think a year ago, if you had them as a first round matchup, forget them moving up in the lottery and getting Schaefer, even them as a first round matchup. Nobody would have been scared of them, right? Like, nobody would have saw them as a threat. And now it suddenly feels like outside of Tampa,

they've got as good a chance as almost anybody in the East, right? Carolina, come on. And Buffalo, I think, is better, too. Now, Buffalo looks really, really good. But that doesn't take away from Shafel. So, Seroquen's the best goalie in those series is, and Matthew Schaefer might be the best player in either of those series, whether it's Carolina or Buffalo. Rasmus Dahlene's playing at a pretty elite level right now. But like he's just changed the outlook of that team instantaneously.

Like it hasn't taken years for it to happen. It is telling that the debate feels less of, you know, where is Schaefer going to finish in the cullter? I think we're all pretty sure he's finishing first. And more can he sneak on to some Norris Bell? Corry? Yeah, a little rich for me, at least in terms of getting the one votes. No, no, I'm talking about the four, five spots. Yeah, I think that's reasonable, yes.

We'll see. Still some hockey left to be played. The defensive underlying numbers still leave a little bit to desired, as you would expect for an 18-year-old defenseman. But when you see a rookie, he means the first rookie 18-year-old, I guess all 18-year-olds are rookies, to score 20 goals in the NHL, and that is pretty amazing in and of itself. I don't think he would be on my ballot today. Like, I think you look at Hughes, McCar, Werensky, Dahlene,

even what Evan Bouchard's done over the last 30 or 40 games here, I think I'd have a tough time getting him onto my ballot. But the fact that we're having the conversation. I think he's in the conversation, like I said, does he for sure top five? I don't know. But I think him versus Bouchard would be a conversation for me. I still might get Taylor.

Sanderson, Hayskin. Yeah, Siders in there, yeah. Yeah, Sanderson is getting hurt, which hurt his case a little bit. But, but, yeah, those are all the names. But I think the point is, like, he's put himself at least at the fringes of the conversation, and that's pretty remarkable. Let's go to the next two guys, I think, that we're probably call 1B, 1C, or maybe 2A, 2B, I guess, more accurately.

And that's Beckett Seneca and Ivan Demadov. And Scott, you and Harmon Dial did a good piece earlier this week on the Calder Race. And I think you each had it a different way. One of you had Demidov as the two and Beckett Seneca as the three and the other had Seneca as the two and Demidov as the three. So which way did you go on now? I'm forgetting off the top of my head. I leaned Demadov, but it's close. Demadov has had better defensive results. That was kind of the edge for me is he's just been a more reliable player. And it feels to me like Demadov has really elevated that second line with Slavkovsky.

Now, Swafkowski's been brilliant recently. but Demadov has elevated whatever line he's been on this year and guys have played better around him. Seneca is more of a singular playmaker for himself in a lot of ways. The offensive production, though, does tilt a little bit in Beckett's favor. So I could see it being Beckett as the runner up this year, honestly. He is the leading rookie score right now. And Corey, that's one that kind of came out of nowhere. Like he has to be a guy.

If we're talking about Schaefer exceeding expectations, Seneca might have outshot his expectations by even more to be in the number two, number three conversation. I agree with that. And I say that that's someone who's been a big advocate of Seneca's game and at his profile. You know, you look at his play in junior and there were stretches of inconsistency in his draft year and his post-draft year in the OHA. Some really, really good stretches and really good playoff play with Oshua.

But, you know, he never really put together a full season of dominant play kind of. And like basically what he's been done in the HAL's here. He's not dominant, but the way basically month after month, he showed up and made a difference for these Anaheim ducks and been a significant part of their turnaround and turning them into a playoff team has been quite surprising for a teenager. You look at the profile, the tool's always been obvious. Six-Forg and fly, high-end skill, that power is always obvious.

But whether he was going to be able to handle the physicality as a 19-year-old was a minor question. I think he's, you know, passive flying colors in that regard. Like you see he's able to drive the net. he's able to win battles. He's able to get to, get the puck easily. Like,

I mean, he's been very impressive this season and looks like a guy who could obviously be a good player, but potentially a true impact player, given his very unique skill set. I remember in the fall, too, media and fans in Anaheim talking about how he'd had a bad

camp too. Like, he had two or three bad games in camp, and they weren't even sure if they were going to put him on the opening night roster. And then they give him that sort of nine game sample, as you'd expect them to it out of the gate, and he has not looked back. Yeah. One more, we're going to open this up a little more broadly in a second,

but one more player I want to give some direct specific time to Chris is Yesper Walshsted. And I don't know that he's going to end up having enough games played to be a, like, top three contender on Calder ballots. But by quality of play, at the importance of position, he's a strong number four for me. Yeah, he's definitely in the mix for me as well. And I think that, you know, with Walsett, one of the more fascinating things is we were getting kind of concerned about if it was going to be going in the right direction for him based on his performances over the last couple of years in the HL. It seemed to be heading in the wrong direction. Now, granted, he was playing on a team that was on the weaker side of the league and that can really, you know, do bad things to your numbers.

But as you look at what Wollstead has done this season, the numbers that he's put up, the, you know, the history that he's made. terms of, you know, the numbers of shutouts and wins and all these other things that he's done. You know, I think that clearly Minnesota has, you know, their goalie of the future, the goalie of the present kind of right now with the split, you know, splitting with Gustavson. But I do think that, you know, in terms of him being in the discussion, you know, overall impact, he's clearly a very important player for a team that's, you know, going to the playoffs is a legitimate contender. you know, it'll be interesting to see if and when Minnesota is going to need to lean on him in the playoffs at all. That won't have an impact on his ability to win the caller, but it is, you know, just in terms of the next steps for him,

that seems to be the thing that I'm most fascinated by. But, you know, thinking about we go back to that draft where it was Wollstett versus COSA, you know, we've just had to be patient with both of them, it seems, because COSA's having a tremendous year in the AHL, still, you know, a step away from the NHL. meanwhile, Walsstead is proven as worth even more so at the NHL level than he did in the H.O. Yeah. All right. Let's go a little broader here then, Corey.

And there's a whole group of prospects that we could talk about to round out the top five, six, seven names here. And there's some really good contenders. Obviously, Alexander and Akeeshion and Carolina, the big defenseman. Ryan Leonard, a very hyped prospect, I think had a good year in Washington. Ben Kindle, speaking of the guys who've kind of come out of nowhere, Oliver Capinen in Montreal, all, Fraser Minton in Toronto. A ton of names here. Who has most...

Yeah, should have been Toronto. Now is Boston. Which of those names, Corey, has elevated their projection for you most with what they've shown as a rookie this year? I mean, it has to be Kindle. I would have done a spit take, you know, nine months ago. If you told me he was going to be, I think he's like third or fourth and rookie goals, seventh and rookie points.

I was just watching him last night when they were playing Carolina. like really impressive what he's done here as a teenager. And I think you could have really interesting debates about where he fits in that draft class. He went like 11 or 12th overalls when those guys in that top 10 haven't had great years. I think you can argue he's squarely in the mix to be one of the top seven, eight players from that draft class, maybe even a little higher given how he's continued to play there for Pittsburgh. And he's playing important minutes and he could play up both ends of the ice.

I mean, he's clearly the guy that's a blow. me away. Like I didn't know if I didn't know if Oliver Capon was going to score 20 goals this year, but I still think the projection is mostly the same. You know, high skill, high compete, heavy footed guy, probably a third line center, you know, long term. I think, you know, Minton's same thing. I think he's had a good year. I think he's really changed his projections significantly. I think it's kind of year like, okay, whoa, like Pittsburgh might really have something here. Caponin filling in as the two C, which Montreal needed desperately, and doing an adequate job has been huge for them. But to Corey's point, long term, if they're a contender,

he's more of a 3C than a 2C there. Is Hage a center? And if so, can he be the second line center? I like him better at center. I think there, I know there's been a lot of talk about like that Jordan Kairu winger of the future there. I think they, I think with his skating and the way that he's proven he can drive play this year, which was the big question with him. I think you at least have to try him at center, but I don't know whether he's the two C of the future there either. I thought he at least looked apart at the world juniors. I tend to agree with you. I've always thought his profile looked better on the wing.

But given how he played with good players, the world juniors down the middle, I think if you're in Montreal, you have to at least experiment with the idea, no? Yeah, I mean, that's probably why you drafted them there. I mean, like, yeah, it'll be interesting to see. I think, you know, as we look at it, you know, being able to be a center, obviously very important. still don't think the defensive side of the game is, is anywhere close to 2C level for him. So, like, that's the thing where it's like, you know, we'll see. I think he wants to be a center. So he's going to do what he's going to have to do.

But I also think with Montreal, that's probably where, you know, if you're going to sign him at the end of this season, you know, you're going to have to probably get him into that center mix pretty quick because he'll, you know, he doesn't have to sign if he doesn't like what he's hearing. It may not work. I'm just saying if an ideal world of capitan is your three, and if Hage can work down the middle, and you've got Suzuki Hage,

Cappanan, that's a lot better looking group than if you have, if Hage can't make it work down the middle. Yeah, 100%. That's just the situation, like if there are one or two points up on the playoffs or one or two points out of the playoffs, when he signs,

that is a very, very tricky situation to navigate if you're the Montreal Canadians. Like Ryan Leonard a year ago, Washington was not just in. Washington was one of the best teams in the league, and they could afford it. You can't necessarily do that if there's a learning curve in Montreal. Didn't they bring Demadov in last spring and do the exact same thing?

Yeah, he barely played, though. But it gives it the option, right? You can test drive it a little bit and see what you want to do. The other side of this conversation is there are some guys who I expected we might be talking about in that conversation who, I don't think really, I mean, we could talk about Ryan Leonard, too. I think he still had a good year. It's just not maybe a great year.

But Artem Lefshanov and Zeebueyam are guys who I thought had outside chances to be in that top two, top three, depending on how their seasons went, Corey. I don't think they're even close to the mix here. No, and I think different reasons. I think with Boyam, his defense was an issue, but definitely the pace of the game, I think has been a lot faster for him than I thought it was going to be. I thought when I watched him in college as skating and the pace of which he played, always stood out. I have not seen that when I've watched him in the NHL this year. I still think he's a good player.

I think he's going to be a great long-term NHL player, still a very young player, like Lev Shunov too. I'm not down on either of them, but I think that's been more of an issue. And Lef Chinov definitely needs to find a way to, I think, calm his game down a little bit and make a little bit better decisions at time with the puck. And defensively, I think he can be a little bit of a wild player at the, at times. And frankly, with both of them,

you can talk about their defense, but their game is offense. And neither of them have shown enough offense this year, you know, to be in that conversation. And, you know, with a guy like Nikitian, it's nice that he's chipping in offense.

He's on the first power play now for a spell for Carolina, but you like that he's big and he can move and he's physical. That's not those guys, it's games. They need a score. And again, they're really, really young players. Like, still top prospects. Guys I expect will be top.

for defenseman law for a long time, run a power play for a long time. So not down on these players in terms of not being really good in NHL players, but they didn't, like you said, they didn't have great years, especially when Boyham got traded. You're like, okay, yeah, Vancouver's not good, but he is going to have a lot of opportunity here now. They can lean on him, give him all the minutes he wants on the power play and really hasn't done anything with it.

And Nikitian has outscored those guys. It's not just that he's like, not that type of player. He's just not by a dramatic amount, but he's slightly ahead of both of them in scoring. How about this one? How about this one, Max? Kishen has more shots on goal than Demandov does. So, like, you know, like that's that, you know, that's, he's, he's playing a more,

and he's an older player. Like, you know, he's, he's got more pro experience and all those things. The one thing that I think is interesting about Levshinov is they pretty much handed on the NHL job this year. And I, they did that with Kevin Kornski a couple of years ago. Now, Leveshanov played in the HL last year. I think you needed to play more there. I don't think you look at some of the decisions that he's making,

the reads that he's making different things. It's not there. It's just not there. And I have concern about that because we've seen how this is worked out for Kevin Kortinski and that it hasn't. And then, you know, you've got a number two overall picks. So we're talking about two top 10 picks that you rush to the NHL amid a rebound or, you know, this, you're starting to come out of this rebuild, right?

where this is supposed to be the rebound time. And I think that there's a lot of concern there. So, you know, if you look at those players, there's going to be work that needs to be done. But you're not sending Artem Levshanov back to the HL next year. So you're going to have to hope that he figures it out because, I mean, even just watching a game the other day, I was trying to figure out exactly what he was doing. And this has always kind of been, this has kind of always been the thing with Artie. He's on his own program at times on the ice.

I love the player. I think there's a ton of potential. He's got this size. He's got this ability. But he is there. There is definitely some holes in his game that need to be plugged this off season. Otherwise, we're going to be talking about the same things next year. Is he like just basically like six two, like six three Adam Bokvis essentially in how he plays?

But that could be that could be a really good thing of Adam. You know, that's a big difference in physical profile there. But that's both. just always kind of play with that wild attacking style. That's more what I'm trying to get at. Yeah, he should have gone back for it. Forget rushing him to the NHL.

He should have gone back for a second year of college. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think, I think it would have, I think that would serve to a lot. Not a lot of guys going one and done, even the top, top, top guys as. Yeah, I mean, I really, I really do think the guys like McCar and Hughes and Werensky for that matter are, you know, the, that's the model. Like if Sanderson, where are they right now? Two years. Two years.

Two years. Two years. Should McKenna go back then? Three. I don't, I don't think McKenna going back is a bad idea at all. I won't. I'm on the fence. Should he go back?

Should he go back? Probably. But I mean, I'm on the, I'm on the fence with that one. But like, really, yeah, it's just, it'll be interesting. Because now we're going to see more young, you know, once this rule, change goes through. We will probably see more young players in the HL out of junior as well. And you wonder, you know, would some of those guys actually be better served with the hybrid path by

playing, you know, like a Porter-Martone situation this year? I think Port-a-Martone is far better prepared and equipped to reach the NHL next season. And yeah, we'll see. But that would also be one-year situation. So who knows? I want everyone to notice what Corey just did at Started this show, he said two years in a row, we've talked about the top guy, and is he going to go back to school? And that guy finished top two for the Calder. Corey just personally, single-handedly ensured that Gavin McKenna is finishing top two for the Calder trophy next year and gave our streak three years. Let's take a quick break right there.

We're going to talk about Gavin McKenna on the 2026 draft class. All right, we are back. And Corey, you had a new draft ranking drop this week. And for the fourth, I believe, time, fourth different time this year, there's a new name atop your draft ranking. It's been Gavin McKenna. It's been Tyne and Lawrence. It's been Keaton Verhoff. And now at number one on your list is Chase Reed.

This has to be as chaotic of a top of a draft as we've had in our time doing this show, certainly. Yeah, that's fair. I think the power draft would have been the closest where I had, I think, Luke Hughes, Gillen, Genther. And I think I had been nears one at one point before eventually settling on power. But this one would be close. and I'm sure some readers are seeing this and wondering if I've just like I've gotten a few messages from people in the league and saying what you're doing this is click beta or whatever

like I'm sure some readers think the same thing but like this is the context for me is for me the gap between one which is the suit defender Chase Reed to eight on my list which is the Windsor Winger Ethan Belchez for me the gap between those players in terms of talent is minuscule. Like, I think it's nearly an eight-way tie, quite frankly. Now, I don't think it's actually a tie.

But the gap between one and eight for me, like on my board is like the gap, same as the gap between nine and 16, which is very unusual. Like, the 21 draft had some similarities in that regard where you had like that group of nine players, which was, you know, Power, Evanston, Clark, Genter, Eklund, McTavish, Baneers, I think I'm forgetting one name. But that group was like kind of like a, a, like a, a blend, Kent Johnson was like a blend of guys and like you could have been in any order. And then you had the 24 draft, which after Stella Breene, you had like that 10 names there.

You really could have put them in any order and they were all really close. That's kind of how I feel this draft is. Like that top, like there's no number one for me that's exceptional. But like that top seven, top eight players, those are some really, really good prospects. like Reed, Keaton Verhoff, Albert Smiths, Carson Carls, Daxon Rudolph, those are premium, premium defensemen. Stenberg and McKenna are exceptional winger. These are all guys that when I do my U23 list in the summer, they're going to be extremely high and ahead of a lot of the guys who went really high in the last two drafts.

They're not going to be ahead of the premium guys, the superstars, the Schafer's and Demadov and whatnot, the guys who are having impacts in the NHL. but they're all exceptional prospects and it's why I really can see them go in any order and of course you got the two really good centers there in Lawrence and Caleb Mount Ho Trow may not have elite offense but are

really good two-way players I think it's a really really strong top ten overall I just think the one two isn't as exciting as it would be in past years but that's led to the fluctuation like if Chris said oh I have Verroff one like yeah I can see that Scott and I have McKenna or Stenberg one

I'm like yeah I can see that Hell, if you guys said I would take Smiths, I want to be like, it's a little of a unique take. But, like, I don't think it's unreasonable. Like, I've talked to scouts who have Smiths and corals in that one or two or three conversation. And I don't think it's crazy. That's just what this draft is this year. The scouts who texted you about the clickbait, was it specifically about Reed or was it about the variance from guy to guy? More the guy to guy.

Like, I think everyone agree. I think the consensus in the league is between Reed and Verhof right now for the top D spot. Yeah. And McKenna, Scott, has come on so strong. I mean, a month ago, there's the situation with the arrest. And I don't think any of us knew what was going to happen from there. But what has happened is Gavin McKenna has really popped off and he has really found his stride in college hockey. Yeah, by the time that this airs, me and Sean will have, Gentilly will have a story out on McKenna and sort of the follow up to all of this. And the takeaway from me in reporting that story out a little bit and specifically. speaking to six or seven scouts about where they're at with McKenna. These are scouts that I'd already previously talked about McKenna with in the fall is that opinions have shifted on Gavin over the last little while. He's played his best hockey of the year.

He's obviously the eight point date, the eight point night and the 10 point weekend really buoyed that. But even outside of that, he's played six or seven of his best hockey games of the year over the last couple of months here. And that has helped. It has helped not just the people who already believed in Gavin in the offense, but I think more so the people who were frankly quite down in October, November, early December on Gavin in terms of where his game was at. And that was before the arrest and the charges. So it's that that is definitely like there's some some steam building there for him.

But he's got to play well now. And that team has had some ups and downs. And I think when Chris expressed some of his reservations about Gavin going back, I don't want to put words in crisp mouth, but I'm guessing that some of that has to do with just going back to the environment at Penn State and the way that they play and whether that's truly for the best for him. That team has some problems. And him having a really strong sort of conference playoff run here and then potentially national tournament run after that could could make all. the difference in the world and really sort of build and sort of put a stamp on on the way that this has gone i'm not sensing as much reservation in the league about that anymore like i think i think

like people might have the players a different order but i feel like his play in the last few months has silenced a lot of doubts and then now it's just about where he fits relative to re-relative to stenberg relative to berhoff etc i think people are still worried about just the detail and and the off puck and the habits. Here's here's the, so his best stretch of the season and he's like in that same stretch in the last 10 games, he's minus four. Like,

you know, like he's putting up stupid level of points and they're still giving up a ton of goals. And, you know, that's, that to me is, there isn't, yeah,

the level of reservation has changed because everybody knows the dynamic skill can be a separating factor. That's what separates him from the rest of the group. And, you know, Penn State is suddenly, on the bubble for the national tournament. It is not a guarantee that they are getting in as an at large right now. And so that is another thing that, you know, now you're losing opportunity on top of that,

potentially. And Scott, I think you read me fairly well on that as well in terms of, I think whoever takes him will sign him regardless. So, you know, that's the other thing. Whether or not he should or whether or not he's ready is kind of not a conversation. So, you know, I think it's really, it's really interesting. But yes, I mean, like, here's the thing, like, you know, to Corey's point, there isn't one player in that eight that excites me as number one, not one. There are eight players that I like, and probably more than that, that I like quite a bit, that will be impactful NHL players. I think we've been spoiled a little bit in certain years where we've had these tremendous talents at number one. and we have guys that could, you know, I think you're just as likely to get the best player from this draft after number one as you are at number one, which we can't say in a lot of years, even though it eventually tends to happen that way because the field is so large and probabilities being what they are, somebody's in there that could be a late bloomer or whatever.

So I'm fascinated by the discussion, but again, like, I think if you're the team that's picking number one, you have a. significant amount of work to do to get yourself to make the right decision here for your team. And there are going to be a lot of varying factors, which I, you know, I'm frankly, I'm glad I'm not in that position aside from the fact that I have to put somebody number one on my list eventually. I had a scout tell me the best place to pick in this draft is number two. Yeah. And I think that speaks to what you're, yeah, to what you're getting at. But now in saying that, I haven't, I haven't had the variance on my list that Corey has.

Like, I've had Stenberg and McKenna one, two, on all five of my lists so far in this sort of draft cycle. So I just haven't been able to quite get there on the D. Like, I think Smiths and Reed and Verhoff all have enough quirks and flaws and areas of improvement in their own games that I just wouldn't, to Peter's point, wouldn't get excited about picking them, number one. I think I would be a little bit more excited about getting one of the forwards, just knowing that. they are going to produce. Like those two kids are going to be productive, top of the lineup, PP1, NHL players.

And I think those defensemen could all well become first pairing guys, but I'm not confident that any of them are going to be a true, true number one. I say this with a caveat that McKenna and Reed for me were one and two of my list, and I think it's basically a dead tie for them in terms of how I evaluated the players. But with that being said, I know that when push comes to shove in these manager meetings late in the season, and if you have number one pick, walking out of the draft at number one with a 511 wing, which is what Stenberg and McKenna are, that is going to be a really tough pill to swallow

for a general manager who just lost what are 50, 60 games. And that's why I think one of those defensemen could eventually end up in the conversation. If they feel it's close, maybe they don't think it's close. I think there are some people who agree with Scott that there's a separation there. some don't, some think it's a Verhofer, read, or at or even above the level of McKenna, Stenberg. So I think those, that's the conversation more going into draft season. I mean, you're basically like going back to like, you know, you're hoping it's Patrick King,

but like that's the lots of that kind of profile, one, and really had a successful, you know, career. And the other one probably is Yakopov, quite honestly. So it's a, there's a level of risk in that profile, like, because Taylor Hall is like six one and Sotkovsky obviously was a big wing. But it's like it's walking out of there with a 5-11 wing with the number one pick. It's that's going to take some some nuts from the from the management team to do that, I think. It is interesting, Corey, because we just talked about Artem Levshinov and his struggles

transitioning into the NHL. I believe it was the same comp on Levshanov, Noah Dobson, that you have on Chase Reed. I think Reed's probably a little better skater than both of those two guys. but that's a real factor too here, I think. I mean, yeah, I mean, there's questions, there's questions on all these kids. Like, that's, you know, I think there's questions on whether Reid

will be a good enough defender. I think there's questions on whether Verhoff's, offense is going to be elite enough. I think there's questions on McKenna's physicality and is compete. I think there's questions on whether Stenberg is really a special, like, small wing or he's just like a really, like he could, he's a,

for a number one pick, he's very vanilla. Like, at least with Reed and Verhof, they have like the physical tools. You know, what's the other, outside of the, maybe the world juniors, what's like a time you've been watching in the SHL? And he's like, done to like what William Eklund does.

Like he pulls you out of your seat. You're like, holy hell, what a goal he just scored. Like, he hasn't had like those moments this year where that's blown me away. Like, all these guys have flaws. Like, Malhotra's got to be one of the most vanilla guys that take of the top three, top four, but he could go that high. Like, he's like, that's the draft this year. Really good players.

no, no doubter. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about those centers there because you mentioned one Mel Holtero. You want to say something, Scott? No, I was just going to piggyback off of the, like I, we've talked about Artim Levshinov on the, on the, on the show today, recent top D, Artimov, Simon Nemich, Owen Power. There's a long, there's a long, there's a long, like, forget the 511 wingers that haven't

panned out. There's a long list of unconvincing top of the draft. defenseman in recent memory as well. So I do think that if you're if you're just uncomfortable with the winger just as a default position, you risk ending up with a different like they should have the Blackhawks almost took Demadov and they should have taken Demadov as we sit here today. Right. Like it's or I don't know. I think there's danger of playing too much into the premium position of it all. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the center is another premium position.

there and I've Corey got kind of introduced it. Vanilla is a good word for it, I think, with Malholtra. I think it's a similar word for Tyne and Lawrence. And Lawrence is an interesting one because when you had him number one on your list, Corey, he was at the USHL. And when you watch a game of his in the USHL, it's a different look than when you've watched a game of his so far at B. You obviously the offense has been lower. I think everyone can look at the totals and see that. But he goes from at one point on your list being number one. Now he's at number nine. Let's just talk about Lawrence's season here and what has. hasn't shown up at BU and maybe what your reservations are and what you still really believe in about Lawrence.

I mean, his decision to go to college, I didn't mind you at the time, but in hindsight, it's been just absolutely terrible. Like, and I've talked to teams, teams who were picking high in the draft and he was squarely in their mix to be in the top three, top five conversation three months ago. And I just don't think that's a reality right now. And I think the biggest issue for him has been, I think, one that the level has exposed to hockey sense a little bit, that he struggles to make decisions. He's really, really fast and he has good hands, but he doesn't, he's, he kind of like, he plays fast, he doesn't actually do anything with the puck when he gets into the offensive zone. And then the other thing is, I think he struggled to physicality. He's losing a lot of battles, getting pushed to the outside a lot. He's struggling to get the high percentage chances.

And that being said, I think he's still really young. He is a straight 17. I think he's a really young. I forget whether he's a June July. Yeah, August. August birthday. Yeah. So, like, I think he's going to come into next season.

And he's going to be really good. Like, I still think this is a great, great player. I think he's going to be an excellent college player, probably for the next two college seasons, I would guess. And I think he's going to be a really good pro. But, yes, the jump to college, you know, when you go up levels, it always gives you new and more valuable information because our jobs is always about projecting these players.

We're projecting them from lower levels to higher levels and ultimately to the NHL. But every time you jump up a level, you get better information because those are just better players and it's more reliable information. And this information has, just like with McKenna,

when he was struggling at the beginning of the season, you've got to hold Lawrence and Verhoff to the same standard. Verhoff hasn't really been pointing a lot lately. like it's a concern. And I think it raises questions about how much offense this player ultimately has. The irony in all this is that we might get to watch Caleb Malhotra and Tyne and Lawrence

after all this debate about the centers in this class, we might get to watch them on the same college hockey team next year. I think it'd be great for them too because I think like this BU team this year has lacked that kind of presence that they needed, that really two-way responsible presence. And Lawrence obviously came in halfway, but he's 17.

I think those two can completely change the culture of that team next season. Yeah. And this is one of those rare instances where this didn't work for anyone. Not one. The USHL loses the benefit of having one of the top players in the draft. The BU did not get any help when they desperately needed it. Lawrence's draft stock has plummeted. Like it's like it's basically this didn't work out for anyone.

But I actually think this decision will end up paying off next year. for all the reasons that Corey said. But again, you know, I always, I respected the decision to bet on yourself and say, hey, this is what, like, I feel like if I'm going to, I have a chance to go number one, I can prove it here. But as Corey said, the information, like Lawrence kind of did scouts a little bit of a favor, gave them more information to see and to look at. He still has a lot of the same talents and skills, but as Corey meant,

he is not processing the game fast enough, which is a lot harder to identify. at the lower levels. You'll see plays here and there where you're like, oh, wow, that was really high level. That was next level. And in some of those levels, some of those guys can't finish those plays. And in this instance,

it's he's not at that level yet. So hopefully it pans out for him next year. But yeah, this is one of those where, you know, everybody thought, hey, this could be a real win-win for all of us

and it's actually not for anyone. One more player I just want to ask you about here, Corey, you still have them pretty high on this list at number 12. With the new information that you have, Tyne and Lawrence at BC versus, let's say, Vigo Bjork in the SHL. How do you, I mean, I know college hockey and the SHM. Yeah, Oscar Hemming.

Another one in college hockey, right? Like, those two guys have thrived better at similar levels or even potentially a higher level. If you talk about the SHL. I know there's the size factor with Bjork, but you got, I think he's the only player on your list who's above average in every single tool here. Yeah, yeah, he's a great player, great, had a phenomenal, you know, World Junior, a great years in Sweden. He's 5-9.

I hate to say it's that simple, but it's that simple. To me, I have him compared to, like, Frank Nazar. I think he's, like, in that raw seed of Frank Nazar spectrum, where I just think that he's super, super talented, super competitive. He's a great player. But I think you are worried a little bit about how that's going to translate into the NHL, into the highest levels of the NHL, when you're trying to win playoff games, can you lean on a 5-9 center?

And unless they're a brain point, there's not a lot of track record of that happening. but I think he's a great player and he deserves to be that conversation. You mentioned Hemming. The league loves Oscar Hemming. I have him, I think, at 18 or 19 on my list. That's way below where the league has him. He's going higher.

I can't wrap my head around it. At least with Lawrence, he has the two or three points. You're like, okay, this is bad. But how we did in the USHL this year, but how we did in the USHL year before, but how he did the Flink of Gretzky. With Hemming, it's like, well, he played 10 games in junior in Finland last year,

where he was kind of good. And then it's like he had a nice flink of the summer. But I don't see that. He still only has one goal this year at college. And he's, you know, I still, I love the skating,

the physicality, the skill he has. He's a great player. I just don't know if I see the high side offensively with him. Before we go, though, I think one of the changes we, to my list that we didn't mention is for me,

the Prince Albert of Defenseman Daxon Rudolph has elevated himself. He, from my personal opinion and talking with the league, when you mentioned Carl Smiths, Rudolph, no, sorry, Carl Smiths, Verhoff, Reed. Rudolph is in the conversation with those guys right now. Like, I don't have him there. And if I was doing a mock draft,

I wouldn't put him there. But if he went top five, I wouldn't fall out of my chair. Like, I think he's having that good a year. He is a really impressive puck mover, uh, 6-2, 63 right shot. Like, he's having just like a dominance season right now in Prince Albert.

he's emerged to the conversation with those other top names. All right, let's take a quick break right there. We've got a packed mailbag we're going to get to. We'll be right back.

It's been a while since we did a mailbag, guys, and we got a nice collection of questions here. So, Corey, we're going to start with this one from BC. He wants to know how good you think Albert Smith could be, who his comp is. And he says, always like seeing players come out of different countries.

Smith's obviously the Latvian. Yeah, and obviously he's had a very impressive year. He just transferred from Finland. playing with Munich now in the DEL in Germany. You know, the profile, I think, is very safe. I hate to use that word, but it's just one that comes to mind with just his size, his mobility, showing offense to pro level already, being an important player for Latvia at the Olympics. He plays hard.

He's a solid all-round player. I think if you're worried about him, the only thing you're worried about, It's just how he lead is his puck moving, his processing. The comp I put in my article lately was Jacob Chikrin. A recent prospect I thought of, we haven't seen how he's panned out, but I've thought of Sam Dickinson and his profile a little bit when we've been looking at Smiths and thinking, like, is there some analogy there?

Thought of Kea Andre Miller, thought of Noah Hanifin. Those are the kind of, that's the kind of player type I think he is. I don't know if you're ever going to get 50, 60 points out of this player. But I think he's going to be a really, really good minutes-eating top four defensemen in the NHL. Okay. Next one is for Chris. What happened with Boston University this year and do their struggles affect your assessment of any of their various prospects? It ties them nicely with the tenants Lawrence conversation earlier, Chris.

Yeah, man, it's been a weird year at BU. The weirdest stat from this is that they have the 52nd ranked power play in college hockey this year. year. That to me is is one of the primary culprits. Their special teams have not been good enough. 14.2% on a team that has Cole Hudson, Cole Eiserman, Sasha Boehra, you know, eventually Tyne and Lawrence, like all these different players. So they've, they've had these pretty, you know, all these different weapons. That has been a disaster for them. They also did not get the goaltending this year. McHale Yargorov is an outstanding prospect. I think he's got a great future. He hasn't been good enough this year. He's got a 903. percentage. You know, he was lights out over the second half of last season. It hasn't had great

defense in front of them. I mean, they lost a lot from last year's team, too. So like, this is going to happen. These teams are going to get these players. Some are going to be one and done. Some of the, you know, you're going to have to, you know, change things out. They lost a lot of scoring from last season's team as well, and they had to replace it. But you look at some of the guys, I would say that my opinion on some players has been impacted. You know, Cole Eisenman has 16 goals this year. Not bad. 25 points. He has, you know, five power play goals. You know, that's a guy that you would see, you know, and Sasha Bovaire has had a disastrous season after transferring. He was a primary guy. He's going to, I heard sign. I heard he's been playing with a bad

shoulder. So I think that's been. Yeah. Yeah. That's. Yeah. Three goals is three goals or whatever he has is still three goals. He's a, yeah. I mean, this is a guy that, that was a legitimate goal score in the USHL. He was one of the best freshmen in the country last year at North Dakota. And almost scored 20. Yeah. I mean, he's, it's, it just has not worked out. Um, you know, and then you look at kind of some of the guys that they've had to lean on, Sasha Bumadine, you know, he's not a guy. No step there. Yeah, there hasn't been a step. Um, you know, they don't have a really talented decor, um, outside of Cole Hudson at that point. Um, you know, and Cole's numbers have been down too. So like everybody's kind of down right now. So has my opinion changed not significantly

because I think that there is a bit of an environmental thing going on there where they're just not a very good hockey club right now. I do think they'll be better next year. But it's going to be very interesting to see some of the decisions that are made like, you know, guys like Eiserman should be going back next year. You know, Wauver's going to turn pro. Not sure that's the best path forward for him. You know, there's a lot of different things that they're going to have to be figured out by BU as they go and work through this. I think when we watched Cole Iserman and Cole Hudson play at the NTP in their junior days, we saw that power play just be incredible with those two and James Higgins. But there's always a part of me that was watching those games and thinking,

does everybody just not see this play coming, that Hagen's is going to try and find the seam to Iserman, or that Hudson's going to like step up from the blue line and look for the seam to Iserman. As like, we all saw it coming from a mile away. I'm like, eventually they go to higher levels, the college game, and at the World Juniors, too, like, I've probably seen that Hudson to Eisenman play, and I've watched them both play at least 15 to 20 times this year between the World Juniors and a BU. I'd maybe seen that play work like three times where, like, they get that pass off. I feel like everybody has just, they've lacked a lot of creativity on that team.

Like, there isn't like a lot of guys who are making, plays and, yeah, it's been a very disappointing power play for them. All right. Next question, Scott, is from Bob G. He wants to know your thoughts on Tommy Blyle. And I'll just add a caveat that it has to be a thought other than he should be a high school football coach in Texas. Well, that is his old man.

He is interesting. I think one of the, it's not a major story, but one of the sort of lowercase stories if you will, of this draft class is that a year after no sub-six defensemen were drafted at all, we've really, we started the year with three and Tommy has kind of made it four. There are four in Ryan Lynn, Xavier Villeneuve, Axel Oliveson, and Tommy Blyle, who are very, very, very interesting. And Tommy in particular has just sort of taken over in Moncton this year. Like, he has been, he might, Zavvy Villeneuve was the defenseman of the year in that league last year and Tommy might be it this year.

And he's been dynamic at times offensively. He's an excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent skater. Like, I've had people compare him to like Seamus Casey and, and Brian. I had someone compare him to Brian Rufalski. Like, he's just that sort of smooth on top of the ice, effortless feet skater. And then the other piece of it, which I just heard actually about 48 hours ago is that, Central Scouting sort of reweighed and remeasured him this week. And he was moved from 5 foot 10.75 to 511 and a half.

So that that matters. Whether we like it or not, there's a difference between 510 and 511. But he's just, I wouldn't say he's dynamic. I wouldn't say he's super competitive. Like he doesn't have, he doesn't break ankles like Villeneuve does.

or even Oliveson does, frankly, at the J20 level in Sweden at times. But he's just a really smooth, smart, talented skater. And I think that skating piece can carry guys a long way. So I think he's right in the mix to be a second or third round pick in this class. Like that's the range that I think he's going to go in. And to have four guys that are kind of in that conversation. Now, one of them might sneak into the fourth or fifth round, whether it's Olfson or Plile. But I think there's a chance that all of those.

guys go sort of top 100 in this draft. So it speaks to to just the respect that those four players have garnered. Yeah, he's he is very he's very fascinating to me as well. And this weekend, he actually became, has set the most, a record for most assists by a rookie defenseman in the queue. Um, you know, and so that's kind of crazy as well. And to, you know, I think it was the, the, the record had stood for, you know, like 40 plus years. Um, you. Um, But still, like, you look at the numbers, you look at all those different things. This is a guy that was coming out of Cushing Academy last year that really nobody had on the radar is really being a draft for them. And then he comes in and is suddenly this guy.

So to Scott's point, like these these incredible numbers are not likely, I don't think are likely to push him into the first, you know, the first round. I, you know, I think second, third round still very much the more probable thing. my question is for next, you know, the next year or the year after, like, where, where is Michigan State going to fit all of these offensive defensemen that they've got coming here? Because Blile is committed to Michigan State. Chase Reed is committed to Michigan State. There's a ton of other guys up at Forward that are going to be there as well. So, you know, Adam Nightingale has a good problem to have over there, I suppose. But yeah, really impressed by Tommy Blile. And the skating component is a real, a real separator for me as well in terms of how I, view him as a prospect. That's the one thing that Michigan State team is missing this year, too, is that blue line does not move the puck particularly well, doesn't have a natural puck mover. And now they've got two and maybe more coming, right? It changes the look of that, the back end starting next year pretty quickly.

All right, Corey, Crash Dummy wants to know what's changed in your assessment. I'm paraphrasing here of Artem Levchenov over the last two years. He didn't have great years. I think he's I saw the question that there was it was a little bit more colorful than that in that like I had a rated number two going into the draft and I loved him and I thought like this guy's got a chance to be a real impact start offenseman in the NHL and he still could be quite frankly he's very very toolsy like the length the skating the skill he has the puck moving ability he has you know he's got still got potential to be a 50 60 70 point defenseman

who plays major minutes um with size like that's a really unique profile and he was great in the USHL to draft minus one. He was outstanding in college hockey and his drafter where he went second overall. He looked every bit like a second overall pick. Then he goes pro, American League, real bumpy, first year pro. You could argue about whether he turned pro too quick or not like we did earlier in the show. But, you know, that start was really bumpy. Then this year starts to look a little bit better.

Like, you know, Sam Renzel's not working on the power play. They put him up there. He's starting to go like it's working. And then it's a long season, the NHL, 82. two games and you know, he's kind of had his ups and downs a little bit.

And, you know, we could say the thing about Lawrence. You had Lawrence one. What the hell? You gave up on him. It's like,

well, that's not how that works. Like, I don't have personal investments in these guys. I don't care whether they are good or bad. I have to call it like I see.

You get a new information. You change your opinion. And have Chase read close to number one overall six months ago. But, but you get new information and you adjust. And let's shoot off.

hasn't been good enough. He's still really, really good. I think this is going to be a really good top forward offense in the league. But, I mean, you compare the Demadov. You compare him to Seneca. I doubt any Chicago fans, you know, would argue with the fact that Seneca and Demadov are ahead of him right now. It's just the reality.

There might have been a few fans back then that, well, not for Seneca, but definitely for Demadov that we're thinking it then, too. Seneca might be the best of all of them, though, when it's all saying done. That's the, yeah, he could be. Good lesson, everybody. I always find a funny, I find a funny that Chicago gets dumped on the most for passing on Demidov when at least they got a good player. Like, Kate and Lindstrom, that pick has been such a disaster.

Like, I'm surprised Columbus doesn't get more crap about that one than Chicago apparently does for getting a guy who was in the NHL. Columbus who had like six Russians on their roster at the time, too. Yeah. What could have been? Hey, they got that Russian goal that undersized Russian goalie the next time around, so it's all good.

Who's been like 30th in the NHL and saved two undersized. That's right. Sorry, Columbus. Sorry, this is not a good segment for you, Columbus. Suddenly out of nowhere. Catching strays. Corey, the thing that I'm clinging to with Dobson,

or with Lefshnov, I should say, is, you know, like we talked about, I think there was some comps to Noah Dobson in his draft year. And if you look at how Dobson, started his career. The Islanders really sheltered him. Like they didn't send him to the HAL at all. They just didn't play him that much in the NHL. And Lefshanov, they've taken a different tact, and maybe that's like the big game changer here. But once Dobson was kind of, he got brought along and he hit his stride, he was a pretty at 22. He's like a 50 point player

next to your 49 point player. Unfortunately, Leveshanov's draft year is the year that Dobson popped off and was a 70 point player. And Dobson has since kind of come back to right into that 40, 50 point range. I still feel like Artie Lefshinoff can live in the 40-50 point range. And maybe, yeah, he'll have some defensive worth, but that is still a really valuable player at that size. I still think in a year or two, that's very much in play for Lefshan. Absolutely. I'm trying to hedge this as much as I can't. I think he's a great prospect, a great young talent. You're talking about a guy who's less than two years removed from being drafted. You think of all the great young defensemen in the week in where they were at that point.

A lot of them weren't even in the NHL. A lot of them played two years in college or they're playing pro hockey or they're in the American League or they're just starting in the NHL. I think just because we have a year and a half worth of data of him, it's easy to get, you know, to knock him down a little bit. I still think he's a great problem. I think there's the ball is whether he should have got two or not. Whether he should have gone four or five or six or seven, I still think that's a great, great

player. And I, and there's still a path for him to be. better than one of those forwards. I think it's a harder path now than it was two years ago, but it's still very much in the mix. Yeah. All right. Next one, Chris, is from Sam Ccon. He says, I've noticed a lot of Europeans jumping into the college ranks. Do these colleges have active recruiting across the pond? It is an interesting, you know, we're talked so much about how the colleges have had to prep for the arrival of the CHL kids, but it's pretty relevant in the Europeans. We've seen more and more Europeans coming in as well. Yeah. And I mean,

I mean, it's honestly, it's been active for many years. You know, I still think that there's, there's a number of hurdles that have to be overcome to get the European players in when it comes to, you know, getting eligibility, academics, all these different things. But now, as we've seen, you can find lots of different ways. I mean, like, Artie Levsinov was a great example of a player that no one was really, no one really thought that he was going to be, like, if they would find a way to get him to be eligible, just because we didn't really have a great base.

of like what the whole education situation was when he was in Belarus and there was a lot of different things. But a number of universities have robust, you know, admissions programs geared towards international students. Yukon is a good example of that. They've had a number of European players over the years and will continue to have that. UMass has been very aggressive. Ton of Finns. A ton of things. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of fins have come over as well. UMass specifically. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of different programs that have, you know, that a big part of their recruiting process. The other thing that's happened, too, is a lot more

Europeans are coming over to the USHL and now will also be coming over to the CHL with that opportunity to potentially play college hockey. You know, like guys like Vaclav Nestrasil, what do you have gone? You know, he went to the USHL and then went to UMass. Adam Benach, USHL, OHL, now he just committed to Western Michigan. So like there's a lot of different things that are that are happening. But I'll tell you that this has really been going on for a long time. And what'll be, you know, what's kind of been interesting is there haven't been a ton of cases where the European players have been the best players in college hockey. So maybe that's, for some of them, might be viewed as a little bit of a barrier for going forward in that.

But I think we're seeing now more and more, those players are seeing that opportunity. They're seeing the chances. And I think their parents are also seeing the chances. Like Mikhaili Yagorov, his whole goal from when he was 14 years old was to go to school. And then it turned out, oh, I'm actually 6'4'6, and I might actually have a chance at an NHL career as well. You know, so like those are the kinds of things that happen to. I just think you're seeing more awareness in Europe. You're seeing the world juniors has actually been one of the great selling points of college hockey to those programs.

I remember the case of years ago. Yukon was able to get a Russian player because he's like, I want to play in this. same league that Clayton Keller did. You know, like, that's, that's the kind of thing that, that, that happens now. They're, they're, they're seeing where those players are going and they're, they're much more in tune with that path. I just remember when, when Tom Velander was drafted, Corey, it was like such a thing that, like, he was going to snub the SHL and go to college hockey. It does seem like even in that small window, I think that was like the 23 draft. Like, it's gotten so much more common. Yeah. And I think it was reading an article. One of our college

football people did the other day that the situation at all miss. And like, they're concluding was talking to some of those sources, there's like, there's no more rules anymore in college football. I think the same thing is going on in college hockey right now. There are no rules. There are no exceptions. These colleges are talking to signed KHL players.

They're talking to signed SHL and legal players. They're talking to guys in the ECHL and the American League. If they want to come play college hockey, they will find a way to get them through the clearinghouse and get them onto college. I had people who were stunned that Hesk somehow found his way into Boston College this year.

This is a guy who, when he was at the Holinka, was not close to finishing high school, but somehow he finished high school in time to go to BC. I'm sure it was legitimate, but like where there's a will, there's a way. And like these colleges absolutely are looking in Europe. They are talking to a lot of these top European names, engaging interest.

And I think you're going to see a number of them come over this summer. Yeah. They were all. They were all over them at the U8, like at U18 World's last year. Eric, Eric Nelson and all those guys. Like Pedersen thought about, like tons of those guys have thought about it over the last few years. And three, should note, three import slots now in the CHL instead of two, right?

So exactly. Those numbers are going to rise. The only barrier to entry at this point, as we've, as we've discovered, the only barrier is having signed an NHL contract. So that is really at this point, the only barrier. Will that be a barrier forever? I think it will be because the NCAA is like committed to that. But that's, that seems to be the only way that you can't get it because I know, you know,

BC tried to do that with Carter George and wasn't able to. Even, even Tolvinen played games in the KHL and like, yeah, it's. Yeah, it's nuts. It's a new, it's, yeah, we're in a different era. Scott, S. Vines wants to know the projection on Bryce Pickford. Oh, I think he's legit. I think we have to treat him based off of what he's accomplished as legit. I was speaking with Willie Desjardin from Medicine had about him earlier this week.

And they, I mean, those programs are always high on their guys, but they think he's legit. And Willie has coached some very good defensemen in the W.HL over the years. What he's done is historic. So that's the, like, that's the baseline. respect that I think he's owed. 43 goals. 43 goals. And he's missed games.

He could have scored 50 goals this year if he didn't miss games. He had goals in, I believe it was eight straight playoff games last year in the heart of the playoffs against the best teams in junior hockey in the W.HL. And he doesn't, like, he's not cheating for it. Like, he's not this rover fourth forward. He just attacks when he gets looks off the point. Like, he likes to attack past that first layer.

And then he's got a huge shot. But he's not, like, he's not this, like, out of control all over the ice, not playing defense type of defender. Like, he's a physical super, he's kind of mean kid. Like, he's got a competitive streak. He's physical. He plays hard. He's six feet tall. So that's a part of the conversation that's going to follow him.

Again, whether we like it or not, those 5-11 six-feet guys, which is where he's at or they have to continue to prove it at every level. but I see no reason why Montreal shouldn't treat him as one of their better de-prospects at this stage and sort of give him every opportunity in the HL to succeed and to run the power play in the HL and then you go from there. The goal totals, the shot,

it's pretty hard to deny at this point. Go back to the World Juniors where he wasn't even invited to the winter camp. Would he make your starting sixth even for Team Canada? So let me just read the names to you. Reed, Reed, Parrick, Carols, Bronicky, Acheson, Danford. Those were the starting six in the, in their, in the, in a middle round for them. I think he, he's got a reasonable case against Danford and Reed, based off of what we saw,

particularly from Reed at the tournament. He's got to probably read, Danford defend better, though, right? Like, you're bringing Pickford for his offense. Reed had a tough time defending. No, no, I don't. Just the skating. The skating is just so good with Reed. I get what you're saying.

I don't think it's unreasonable. Like, I guess that's my question with Pickford is like, is he more than a shot? I think his shot is exceptional. I don't know if the skating or like the hardness is going to be good enough for him to be like a really good NFL defender. So the question is how much of that offense can he bring him to the next level? I think he's got a really good chance for it to happen. I just don't know if it's a sure thing. Or not that's why I'm asking the case.

At the higher level, the level beyond the WHL, what would his impact have been? I don't know the answer to that question. He didn't play there. But that's what I'm thinking of. about what it comes to Pickford. It also feels like every offensive defenseman is going to have a bit of a tough time in one market in particular in the NHL for the next decade, and he might be in the wrong market. Also, something weird at the WHL.

This is going to come up in the context of Carls, of Rudolph and Pickford, is, Lynn is how many defensemen are just having monster years in the Western League? Right now. I mean, you could say the worst. It's the worst it's been since I've been doing this. job the WHL this year. I mean, like that is, I've had this discussion with scouts as well about how, you know, like different things like you're going to look at all the NHLE models and everything else.

If you're looking at all of those, just get ready for those to change because they are, they are off the, it's not, it's really, it's, there's no historical comp, I think, for, for what's happening right now. Yeah. If anyone wants to bet with me that the Ruck twins are going on both going in the first round, I'll take that bed all day kind of thing. Like, it's just, that's just not happening. Yeah.

He did do it, to his credit. He did it against Berkeley, Katten and all those guys last year as well. Yep, for sure. But he's a good prospect. I like it. He was all in my list last year. Like, I like the pick. I like the player.

It's just a matter of, like, will it translate to being a, like, he can't be, he's not a penalty killer. Like, he has to be an offense guy in the NHL with that, with his player type. And to your point, there's an issue there. Dobson's also a really good offensive guy, too. But that's, you can trade guy. that's not really a problem. It's just a matter of how it's going to translate to the American League next year.

Is he going to be like a Josh Waugh where it looks really nice and junior but he doesn't translate super, super well or doesn't he's a better skater than Wa? So maybe it does translate better. Yeah, it could be. All right, let's close with this one. And how about this? Rather than me throwing this to one of you guys, I just want you all to answer it all at once here.

JBS and Space wants to know. I'm going to count to three after I asked this. Is there hope that the flyers can fix David Yerecichick? three, two, one. No. Possibly. Ooh. I think he's like, like fix in what way?

Like I fix him he's going to be like a three, four, like no. But fixing that, I think he can get to 500 NHL games and play competent like, you know, 18, 19 minutes a night, kill some penalties, give you a 10, 15 points a year. Like, I think he can do that. I think, but I know it's not the sexiest bar in the world, but I don't know even. I think that's still a useful player. Well, for what that trade was, that would be, that would make it worth it to have given up Bobby Brick. Yeah.

Yeah. I think number five, PP2, like sheltered number five, PP2, five six. I think that's what you're hoping for. Yeah, it's, so I think,

yeah, I think that that's at least feasible. It's still in terms of his age. He's only 22. You know, I can hammer it. You can still hammer it. You can still hammer the pot.

You can't see. Going on right now. No, No. It's the skating. He's he's always going to have a tough time. Fix him. Fix him. You know, I mean, we're talking about a guy that was a, you know, a very high NHL draft pick. Yeah. So if you're recalibrating expectations, as we probably should have done in in years one, two, three, whatever, you know, like, yeah, but like in terms of being a serviceable NHL defenseman, I'm still concerned about that based on what I've seen in the AHL. To Scott's point from earlier, what a strange draft that ends up being. You have those four defensemen going to the top 10. Eurecheck, Nemich, Kornitschinsky, Minchikov. Kornitsky is barely holding on to an HL job.

Nemmich apparently is trying to get out of New Jersey. Eurechukes on his third team. Minchikov basically had to get a, they had to trade for a power play quarterback at the deadline. Because they, it's got like there's this, whatever, the 25th defenseman in that draft, wherever he was picked is now probably the clear best guy. And it's what a strange class ends up being. And I still like Nimich a lot. Like I think I think he's a good player.

I think that's just a weird situation where they have Dougie and they have Luke Hughes. And we saw that situation coming from a mile away that there was going to be a complicated marriage tier between that player and that organization. It's just been interesting to see a very recent draft and how it's aged at that position particularly. No question about it. I think it just speaks to how hard the league is. Like Dickinson, Perrette, like go down the list. Dickinson, Perrek. they're all having

everybody's all of the young defensemen virtually in the league are having a tough go like I started by U23 at the bar with Dom at our little

our little party here in Toronto for the athletic staff earlier this week outside of Brant Clark and Simon Edvenson Brant Clark's actually having a really,

really good year finally after it was a tough go for him but outside of Brant Clark and Simon Edvinson and maybe Denton Motechuk like there's not everybody

is having a difficult go if you're a young defenseman in the NHL. And Hudson. And Hudson. Yeah. He's pretty good. But yeah, like that it, yeah, this, that draft and Eurichick was my number one D that year. I know, I know, um, Scott, you were high on Nemich.

And like that it, honestly, I did not see it coming. Like, David Eurecheck, how about this one? David Eurecichick was at the world juniors that, that, you know, a couple of, the one where Bader went. He was the best defenseman there. He was the best. He might have been one of the best players outside of Bedard there. His D-partner was David Spachek.

David Spachek was on the Czech Olympic team. David Urechek wasn't even a consideration. And not to say that David Spachek is like a super prospect because he's still bouncing between the NHL and the H.L. But this is how far he fell. And that's the thing where it's like in terms of fixing him, there is a long road ahead to get to that point. I think there's some part of that the player has found to be more difficult to work with, I think, too, than some expect.

Correct. Like, yeah, there's that that's a little bit of that too. Yeah, yeah, be paid, like a lot of these guys just lack that patience and he didn't think he should be in the HL. And he had a great HL season in Cleveland and he was really good there. But that doesn't mean you're ready to take that next step. And I think a lot of players need to learn that quickly and take a little bit more control of their own development so that that doesn't happen to them. All right. That is going to do it for us.

stuff today, guys. You can catch more of Chris, of course, over at Flow Hockey and on his podcast called up. Obviously, you can read all of Scott and Corey's stuff on Theethletic.com. I'll be back on Monday with Laz and Jesse. We'll talk to you soon.