The Athletic Hockey Show - Who are the World Junior Summer Showcase standouts?

Episode Date: July 30, 2025

The guys are on the ground in Minneapolis, Minnesota for the World Junior Summer Showcase and on today’s episode they discuss the challenges Team USA will face when vying for a three-peat in December, Canada’s unusual strength in goal for a change, which players are standing out so far, roster battles, and more. Host: Max BultmanWith: Scott Wheeler and FloHockey’s Chris PetersExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody, Max Bolbin here alongside Scott Wheeler and Flohockey's, Chris Peters, for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. All three of us coming at you live from Minneapolis, where we have been at the World Junior Summer Showcase this week. It's been a fun event, as always, a little different setting. We are in Minnesota instead of Plymouth, where it usually is. But this is where the tournament's going to be.

In five short months, you guys are going to be. be back here covering a big tournament as Team USA goes for a three-peat. And Chris, I say that they're going to have their work cut out for them if they're going to chase this three-peat. Oh, are they ever, Max? You know, I think obviously having the teams that they had the last two times around, a lot more, you know, high-level draft picks, a lot of guys that, you know, had experience and, you know, and success.

They'll have plenty of returnees for this year's team, but the biggest hole, I think, for this team and something that they're really good. going to have to focus on as we go forward is, you know, what's the goaltending going to look like? And they've gone through the last two years having Trey Augustine going back to back. You know, even the fact that, you know, their backups would have been, you know, far and away starters on this team had they been age eligible, Jake Fowler, Hampton-Slicinski. And, you know, so now you're kind of looking at a fairly shallow goaltending pool. You're looking at a team that doesn't quite have the depth the last two did.

And you're also looking at some age groups that haven't necessarily had the same level of success internationally as the previous ones. And so especially last years, you know, with the Ryan Leonard group and stuff like that. So there's a lot of replacements that need to be there. But I mean, James Higgins is back. Cole Hudson is back. That's, you know, the big – those are your two core guys that you build the rest of the team around. And then you just kind of go from there. But, yes, it is going to be a real challenge.

you know, Bob Motsko is the head coach again. He did win a gold medal with this team at the World Juniors in 2017. You know, so he's had experience and he's had some success. And obviously, Home Ice is helpful. But yes, it is going to be, it is not, they will not enter this tournament as the favorite. I can promise you that. No, and you mentioned the last couple age groups and certainly that Ryan Leonard group really carried the last two gold medal team, Scott. And Ryan Leonard is probably the exact kind of guy that.

this team is missing, Scott. Yeah, it's weird seeing a number nine out there who's not Ryan Leonard after watching him sort of really be the heartbeat of this team over the last couple of years. And you start to watch whether it's the other number nine, Jack Murtag or some of the players who are vying for sort of the bottom of this lineup, it just doesn't have the same juice. There isn't even like you think about a Danny Nelson or an Oliver Moore, the guys who played important roles sort of on a third line and really drove a third. third line. I'm not sure this group has that. We're looking at players like Will Horcough and Shane

Van Sagi and we're going to be, they're going to be asking them to be important bottom six guys for them. And then at the very top of the lineup, we all love Teddy Stiga and Max Plont and Brody Zemer and Brody Zemer. And Brody Zemer has been very good here. Teddy Stig has been noticeable here. But they aren't, they aren't Gabe Perot. They aren't Ryan Leonard. They aren't Will Smith. They aren't. You go down the list. It's just not the same cash. Shea. So it's going to be Hagen's team and it's going to be Hudson's team. And to Peters's point, sometimes that is enough. Sometimes hockey Canada can shoot itself in the foot and take a five-minute major in the course of a game. And sometimes you really do only need, we've seen it many times at

this tournament over the years. Sometimes you only need three or four players. Maybe Cole Eisenman can fill the score sheet at this tournament and crank them on the power play and make a team pay for for winding up short-handed. But the big thing is that, one of those, if you're only going to have four or five studs, one of those typically needs to be your goalie, and they just don't have that. So I expect guys like Teddy Zieg, Teddy Stiga and Brody Zemer and Max Plont and Cole Eiserman to be very, very good players in this tournament. I think James Higgins has a chance to be the star of this tournament, even with Gavin McKenna and Porter Martone and Berkeley Caton potentially playing and suiting up for Canada. Well, I'm sure we'll

get to Hagen's when we get to the standouts, but he looks just levels above everybody else at this event. And that's going to be important. Will it be enough? I don't know. We haven't seen Cole Hudson here. The expectation should be and obviously will be that Cole Hudson is one of the best defensemen in the tournament. He was a year ago. But they're going to need some magic from those guys. And they're probably going to need it. If they end up playing Canada in an important game, for example, they're going to need the Canadians to have an off night or end up in penalty trouble. I think that's the path that they have to sort of hope plays out for them. Yeah, because on paper, Chris, like you mentioned USA's not going in as the favorite.

That's because Canada on paper, I mean, they've had two teams here, Canada white and Canada red, at least they did yesterday for their scrimmage. On paper, I would take either of those two teams as the tournament favorite. That's how loaded they have been. And they're missing eight guys here due to injury. Yeah, I was just going to say, There are technically 30 players invited to camp that are first round draft picks, and that doesn't include McKenna who will go number one. So, you know, it's pretty insane.

You know, like that the 30 is including the injured players, but still, it's like you look up and down and you, you know, you see the top, the power play units and, you know, that's without Zane Perak. That's without some of these other guys. Yeah, back at Seneca, others that aren't here. So, you know, I think that this, this, It all goes in cycles, and we're kind of also, this is coinciding with Canada's last couple of drafts being very strong and very heavily Canadian. The other thing that I'm, I was reminded of by young Vigo Bjork from the Swedish team is that, you know, Macklin Sellebrini, he's still, couldn't he have been here?

So I was like, oh my gosh. So, you know, you think about that and the depth is certainly incredible for this. this team. And, you know, so I think that there's going to be a lot of, uh, a focus on Canada. I think, you know, really it's going to be anything less than gold is always a disappointment for them. But I think in this particular instance, it's not only that, they bring in Dale Hunter. They bring in Gardner McDougal. It's kind of like the Avengers of junior hockey coaches at this point, you know, like it's, it's, it's, there, there are so many things being put towards this where if you don't win gold now, then maybe have the summit because, but, but, but, but,

again, anything can happen in these single elimination tournaments. But gosh, you're looking at those two Canadian rosters. That was the best game we've seen so far, was the Canadians playing the Canadians, except when it got to the shootout, which continues to be a problem, apparently. Yeah, but when have we ever seen that translate? Yeah. Canada for a change might have the two best goaltenders in this tournament as well, whether it's Carter, George, or Jack Ivan Kovic.

George was excellent yesterday. He only played half the game, but George was spotless on the, on the score sheet yesterday. And that is after Dustin Wolf and Spencer Knight and Trey Augustine, that is a big change. Well, let's start there as we go to the standouts here. Because you're right, George was excellent yesterday. And another guy in that Canada game who really popped. And this is going to be music to the ears of the Columbus Blue Jackets fans.

Caden Lindstrom had an excellent day yesterday. I thought he looked not just like himself, but like a really, really. strong version of himself yesterday. He was heavy on pucks. He was driving the net. He had two, he scored twice, and he had a breakway that he didn't score on. So could have had a hat trick. Just imposing physically, he actually knocked Porter Martone, his future Spartan's teammate, pretty good in the corner. And Martone briefly left before returning, thankfully. But I, I mean, yeah, Caden was, Caden was impressive yesterday. And given what he was coming, in with, given the fact that he didn't really look that way, even once he returned to Medicine

Hat in the Memorial Cup and late in the playoffs last year, just so, so, so positive to see him really impose himself out there. And he's, he at this level, if he's going come tournament time, he is going to be a lot to handle for some of the smaller D, some of the smaller kids that, that often show up in the world juniors. Yeah, and I talked to him after the game yesterday. Scott, Caden, just because I was like, you know, do you feel like you're back at your top level? Do you feel like you've hit your top gear yet? And he said no. He said he still feels like he's got a long way to go. He feels so much better than he did a few months ago and he feels like he's made progress. And he also gave some credit to Michigan State for the work that they've done

on kind of, you know, building up that strength to increase speed. I mean, he was one of the more, you know, noticeable players in the game. game because of the pace that he was playing at because of beating defenders wide. And, you know, the thing is, is if he does and if he can elevate and if he continues to benefit from the strength training and if his, if he gets enough rest, we're seeing him closer and closer to health. And, you know, it starts to say, okay, well, Columbus took a gigantic risk on, you know, the back injuries and everything else. If he can stay healthy and he has another gear to get to, you know, he's not only going to make them look really,

smart. He's going to be a star for that team. And I think he's got all the tools, you know, certainly the skill level and the speed and the pace and everything else that we saw. Now it's just a matter of, you know, whenever you have that injury, it's going to be continuing to stay healthy, continue, you know, those things will always be there. But it was a great reminder of what the possibilities are. Because I think when we looked at last year's draft, Kate Lindstrom was always one of those guys that was that high ceiling, incredible potential player. And he's, you know, now we're getting a chance to be reminded of why that was with how healthy he has looked here. The idea of him and Adam Fantilli is still very real.

And it's still an idea at this stage. But you start to wonder about what him and Adam Fantilli down the middle, if he sticks down the middle. and I think it was important that he was taking face-offs yesterday and that he was playing center yesterday as well. That idea is a very, very real exciting thing. One of the big debates that we're going to have around Canada, especially as this tournament gets closer, is there are going to be, and you alluded to it, 30 first round picks. There's going to be some high picks, not just good, like, you know, first round picks, but like high picks that they get cut from this team. I'm wondering where you think the pressure points are, Chris, on this roster, because you look at the top six. and it's going to be really hard to bump out Gavin McKenna, Michael Mesa,

Beckett, at Seneca, like Berkeley Caton, Porter Martone. Like, we're already filling up fast in the top six. Who are some of the guys that you think are going to be watching closest between the end of this tournament and then the start of those camps in December? Yeah, you know, I think Michael Hage raised his hand in that first splitswide game to say, hey, don't forget about me. I can make an impact here. I can be a power play guy.

I can, you know, I can play solidly a five-on-old. five, you know, he made some really good plays over the course of the game. His speed is such a factor as well. And you say, okay, well, you know, if Michael Hage isn't going to be in your top six, he's got a, he's going to have to be able to do other things. And I think that that's kind of something that he's pretty well aware of. But, you know, there is still that opportunity that he could, you know, kind of find his way into that top six. Maybe it's not as a center. Maybe, maybe you're moving some of these centers over to the wing and you're giving guys, um, chances to, to play in different positions, but I do think that Hage in particular is one of those guys where he's,

he's, you know, in the right age bracket. He's in the right kind of, he's progressed in such a way that I think that there's, there's a real, real opportunity there for him. And then you start kind of looking down the lineup and you say, okay, who are the guys that can fit into roles? And there are guys that aren't here, Caleb Danoi, Jett Lucenko, that could, you know, very easily fit into bottom six kind of roles, even though they're such exceptional players and could potentially, you know, would be top six on pretty much any other team. So, you know, I think you kind of look at that. So there are guys that aren't in the, in the mix right now because they're not in camp and not healthy that I think will be important. Sam O'Reilly. Yeah, Sam O'Reilly, another one. So like guys that can fit

roles. But I think like if I'm Canada, I'm building a loaded top nine at worst, you know, like I think that that's the thing is I'd probably putting, you know, skill in my 13th forward position. I'm putting skill with, you know, my extra guy is going to have skill and scoring ability as well. But, you know, I think there are guys that they have that can crash and bang. They have Colbo Duen. They have, you know, Brady Martin others that could potentially play, you know, a fourth line role for this team. That, you know, again, would probably be up the lineup in pretty much any other team. So there is a lot of really good things there.

I do think the other places that I'm looking at is on the blue line. If Sam Dickinson and Zane Perak are not available, then you start kind of running into some issues in terms of who's going to be the guys that are going to run your power play. You know, I think you've got Cameron Reed, you've got you've got Henry News who's been, you know, who got some looks in that position. You know, so the defense core, especially because of the NHL risk that exists with those guys, that's where I could definitely see a lot of spots up for grabs because you have to find the right mix. to make up for some of those things. And we saw last year, most of their defensemen were not in the right place, you know, or in their lineup or on their special teams. And that was an issue.

I don't think that'll be an issue this time around, but it's just do they have the horses to make up for some of that? I think they do. But it's just how do you find that correct mix to build the team? I thought it was notable on the forwards side of things. I thought it was notable that it was Boisvare that they tried with Michael Misa. yesterday and that Boisver was penalty killing and on the power play. I don't think he has the shine maybe that our listeners or the average fan is as familiar with him as some of these other

names. But Sasha was a driver on a little bit of a weaker North Dakota team a year ago, and he's now transferred to BU. He's going to have another big season at BU. He has size. He can play center. He can play the wing. He can penalty kill. He can play on the power play. I thought he He didn't score yesterday and didn't actually have a ton of individual looks for himself, but I thought he made a lot of plays to his linemates off the wall yesterday and showed well yesterday. And you mentioned the forwards right off the top max there. You mentioned Martone, Katten. Katten's another one who could, in theory, potentially be in Seattle and doesn't have a lot left to prove in the WHL.

But let's presume that McKenna, Martone, Katten, Mesa, and Seneca are five of your six forwards. That leaves one spot open and it's at left wing. you wonder about Liam green left shot wingers like Liam green tree and tijiginla who aren't here but i did think it's notable that they tried blover there and i could conceivably see bovare as that sixth that six top six forward so uh bovare and hage i think the canadian fans are so dialed in on the chl kids but bovaren hage as as two kids who didn't take the chl path went ushchel went college uh i think both of them have a real chance to to to make this team they're both 19 year olds

And I thought they both played well yesterday. So that was notable for me. And Bovare kind of fills the right blend of traits where we see hockey Canada. They like to go with these guys that they trust, these older players, these guys who can play a responsible role. He fills that while still bringing some of the offensive ability. I think he's one of those names that as you get closer, you're going to start to hear a little more buzz about. So I think that's a good shout. Who else, Scott, has really stood out to you at this event.

We talked about Lindstrom. We talked about Carter, George, Bovare, obviously. obviously, who are some of the names that have caught your eye? Lesser names, but two guys that I've been impressed by are Hikey Rohingen with the Finns. I think he's their one C. I don't think we're going to see Consta Heleneas, who is technically eligible to play in this event. I don't think we're going to see Heleneas there, but we will likely see Mietin and Hemming, who also aren't here as their top two wingers?

And you start to wonder, okay, who's playing with Mietening and Hemming for the Finns? And that line is going to have to be very good because this is a very shallow. Finnish age group. I think that's been evident this week. But Heike looks like a player and he's a competitor and I could see him wearing a letter for them. Obviously, Aaron Kivi Haru is the C. But I could see Heike sort of playing a really important role and being a guy that

the broadcast that the TSN broadcast loves because he's in the mix and he's competitive and he's stirring the pot and that side of it. And then I've been impressed. There's a lot of depth on the right side for the Americans. You've got Kleber, you've got EJM. You've got Blake Fiddler, but there isn't that on the left side. And so I've wondered, okay, behind Cole Hudson on the left side, who are your second and third left shot D?

And I've been impressed by Will Skahan here. And I think the idea of the size of Will Skahan playing with the size of a cleaver or a fiddler potentially, I think in a sort of second or third pairing role is really interesting to me. Schahan didn't play a ton last year at B.C. but he's a big, big, strong kid who can skate. He's actually made some plays with the puck off the offensive zone blue line and even sort of skating pucks out of trouble in his own zone this week. And so when I look at sort of who's going to be on that left side, if there's a,

if they're picking between one of Jacob Romback and Will Skahan, for example, I think Scahan has outplayed Romback this week. So that's that's sort of where I'm at with those two. They aren't they aren't the sexy names. I mean, Higgins talked about him off the top. Higgins has been like, how good? James been here, right? Oh, yeah.

And I kind of joked with him in that first scrum after that first game that they played of you were involved in a lot of sort of out there, quote unquote. What are you trying to sort of set the tone? Are you trying to get involved in that? And he actually sort of rebutted and said, no, I'm actually trying to not be involved after the whistle like I was today. And then lo and behold, the next game, I thought he was even more. He was even more involved.

He was. He was. You know what, Scott? Like I feel like I've I thought James came into this like With something to prove like he's he's denied that But it is

Pretty clear to me that he is Playing with a little bit of F you He's playing a little bit of like just a reminder Everybody It was kind of funny because I saw where we said I saw both the some Bruin scouts and the Islander scouts Were right next to each other And there were

looks getting shot back and forth at him after Hagen's was doing stuff. And it was, I mean, he's, there's not, there's not one player in this camp on the U.S. side that has been remotely close to James Hagen's in terms of what he, how he looks here. That's not necessary, like, you know, Cole Hudson hasn't been on the ice. Cole Eisenman hasn't been on the ice, but even so, like really, Cole is probably the only guy that would, would get you out of your seat the way that James has. But there is one other player on the U.S. team that I wanted to shout out to for how he's played. And we can continue on James if we want to as well.

But Riker Lee has been a very impressive player. Scott, I know you wrote a story on him. And Riker Lee is a guy that came into this camp that I think as a younger player, as he had a little bit more to prove. But as I look at the skill of this roster and you look, you know, again, we're going to talk about the size of the Americans and stuff like that. And Riker Lee is not a big man, but he's bigger than some of those other guys. And I thought that he kind of put his hand up here at this tournament or this event or showcase or whatever you want to call it.

And just said, I can make a lot of plays for this team. At this pace, incredible skill. You know, coming straight from the USHL to this camp, there are, guys that you can see kind of get and it's true of guys from the CHL and in Europe and Europe and everywhere else like getting into this event at this time of the summer the pace is so high if you're not ready to go right away it is going to eat you up riker lee was ready to go immediately and i think he's continually stood out um in games and so that's a very positive development because we're talking about this lack of depth for the u.s team you got to get the top

six right. Those guys have to be going, and Riker Lee has made a case that he should be one of those players. I mean, you can question, Scott, whether, I mean, I don't even know if it is a question. I think Riker Lee's been better here than Trevor Connolly was, and granted, we only saw him for one game. I mean, and Connolly has a lot of talent, certainly. But I think that there's starting to be a real case for Riker Lee to not just make the team to play one of those prominent roles that Chris is talking about. And Chris and I had this chat in the press box a couple of days ago. of if you're picking one, if you're picking Riker Lee or Trevor Connolly,

and Trevor Connolly's a returnee, and I'm sure he's going to be on this team, and certainly if he sticks in Henderson, which is where he's going to start the year, I was told he's not going to start the year in Portland. Certainly if he sticks, they always favor the pro guys and that kind of a thing, but I thought Trevor,

before he got injured here, really struggled to make much of anything happen, and it was the usual Trevor Connolly's story of forcing plays, carrying pucks into trouble, made a couple of plays. There were a couple of flashes in there as well, but he's a very frustrating player. And if you're starting to look at the wing depth, you've got Cole Eisenman, you've got Teddy Stiga, you've got Brody Zemer, you've got Max Plunt, there's four wingers. If Riker

Lee's your number five, suddenly if you're starting to build a roster and you need roles, do you feel comfortable, if Trevor Connolly is not in your top six, do you feel comfortable with him that he's not going to burn you at some point in the tournament playing in a bottom six role, whether it's with a penalty or a bad turnover. I think it's a very real conversation. That's not to say that I don't think Trevor Connolly is going to not be on this team. But I will say I would not be surprised if Trevor Connolly got cut as a returnee, which is similar to what happened with Brad Lambert, right?

If we all remember, Brad Lambert played at this tournament once and then got cut as a returnee. And I think there are a lot of similarities in terms of the way they look on the ice, the decision making, the play selection between Trevor Connolly and Brad Lambert. And Trevor Connolly's an even more sort of pronounced version of that where the mistakes are even higher grade than what they were for Brad Lambert. But it's not, I don't think it's out of the question. Like I don't think Trevor Connolly is a lock. I don't think he's in permanent marker on this roster at this stage. Yeah.

And, you know, I think the things that he did was all mostly creation with his feet, his speed. He's got tremendous speed and he can get around defenders. He beat a lot of guys wide. But to Scott's point, you know, the mistakes that were made. included him skating a puck into trouble and getting, you know, blown up a bit and injured and done for the, done for the summer showcase. That's not the best last impression you want to leave your coaching staff with just, you know, kind of skating into a point where you even, you know, actually did injure yourself. And I'm sure, you know, everybody is, I hope it doesn't really set

them back for, you know, getting ready for training camp and different things like that. But I do think, you know, when you look at this, like, I agree. Like I think he's on the team. I think that there's, you're going to need that speed factor. I think he's got a spot on the power play. You know, so those are the things that we'll keep him on the roster. But yeah, I mean, it comes down to it, like, you know, for him and, you know, I know Colin Potter got shouted out by Bob Motzko.

And he's a guy that plays at a similar pace. Same kind of thing. Makes a lot of plays with the feet. Now he needs to start finishing those plays. There were just too many things that kind of lead to. nowhere or it's a scoring chance that kind of the shot isn't perfect or whatever, you know, those kinds of things. But, you know, those are the players that you're saying, okay, like, what's the next thing you can bring? Because I do think USA has a chance to be one of the

quickest teams in this tournament. Canada probably will be the fastest, but USA is going to have some real, real speed in this group. Well, those two guys you just talked about, Chris, I think, are both fascinating in this same kind of light because, has the size factor that the U.S. Not a ton, but he's got more than Potter, right? And I think Potter's been really good here. But this is going to be this constant question we have to have on USA. You talk about those wingers that we kind of know are on the team. And even Hagen's, you know, Eiserman, Hagen's, Stiga, Zemer, Plont. Like, this is not a team that can take another 510 guy lightly. Potter might be good enough that he forces his way in anyway. But that's

going to kind of constantly be an undertone of any of those discussions. Same conversation for L.J. Mooney, I think. They just can't bring Mooney and Swanson and Keevin and all these guys. Like, they just won't, right? So even if they outplay a Will Horcough, for example, or outplay a Shane Van Saggy in the fall, I still think you're just going to look at the roster. And AJ Spellasey is a lock. And another player, we didn't even mention him, but AJ is just bigger and stronger and faster than everybody here. But there's going to have to be the Van Sagis and the Horcalfs in this group, even if players like Mooney and Keevan gets off to a good start at ASU and that kind of a thing.

Like, it's going to be hard for those kids. And the good news is if you're a Mooney or a Keven, you've got two years of eligibility here as well. So those players will be important parts. But if you're a Max Swanson or a Will Zellers and Zellers has been, I think, a non-factor here. And Swanson, frankly, hasn't been as notable as he needs to be here. if you're those guys, like it's, it's just tough because we know that Zemer and Plont and Steger are going to be big parts of it. Keev and I might push back a little bit. He's 6-1.

He can P-K. Right. Is he in that same conversation for you, Chris? Yeah, I mean, he's slight. You know, I think that that's the, he's not going to be a guy that's going to give you a bunch of like, you know, hard minutes. I think, you know, like, that's, that's part of it. I mean, I think he's a guy that's going to really benefit from college getting strong. You know, spending more time, getting the right nutrition plan, different things like that.

You know, his speed is a big separator for him as well. The guy that, you know, and I do think, you know, L.J. Mooney, who, you know, we should talk about a little bit just because, yes, he's, he's made a lot of plays. Like, he's made a lot of plays here. You know, the thing about LJ and his, the guy who will be coaching him all fall will be the guy making the decisions about who makes the roster. And I think LJ has typically been one of the guys that, you know, will always stand out. It's just a question of, you know, the size is always the conversation with him. You know, I think back to Johnny Goudreau in his first year of eligibility at the world juniors. And he had not quite taken off yet in college hockey.

And they did end up cutting him from that team. And after that, I think he was the best player in college hockey for the next year and a half. So it was like, you know, like those are the kinds of things that you, you think about, like, I think that's, you know, I think LJ is going to be an excellent college player. I think he's going to have a chance to make it to the NHL. I know Habs fans are absolutely in love with them right now, and I can understand why they've seen smaller players find success there, and there's no reason to believe that LJ can't be another one of those players.

But I think when it comes to building this particular roster and making the decisions that you have to do, just as Scott said, because of the prominence of Zemer Higgins and Stiga, you know, it does make the, the, the, the hill taller for Potter, for Mooney, for players like that, that, you know, I think there have been a couple of guys here that, that are just completely out of it for me. And Scott mentioned a couple of them. But, you know, I think there are there are other guys like Mooney and, and Potter who will keep themselves in the conversation because, you know, in LJ's case, he's a tremendous playmaker. He has speed. He's got all these great vision, all this stuff. Potter is, you know, arguably the best

skater here, you know, so that's, that's kind of those, those things help them in that regard. LJ, they always seem to trust LJ too. Like, LJ just seems to have a defensive conscience that they're looking for. Smart player for sure. I do want to talk about one of the big names in the 2026 NHL draft here. And obviously, we should probably talk about McKenna too, frankly. But the guy I'm talking about is Yvar Stenberg from Sweden. And I think in order for Sweden to succeed at this tournament, you are going to be looking for

Evar to play a really big role, Chris. Huge role. I think that he, he's a guy where he does, he's not a big man, but he just plays heavy, it feels like. He plays like really north. Like he is always attacking. He is always going forward. And because of that, he scored a hat trick in his, in, in the only game he's played in so far. He's faster than pretty much everybody on his team. He is more skilled, I think, that he has the compete level. He's going to be not just, you know, you think about they could have Frontel, they could have Victor Eklin. You have them plus Stenberg. We are talking about a team that is a threat in this tournament. They're going to need to get the goal tending and they really have to make

sure that they're building their blue line with good balance. They have a number of guys that are big. They have a number of guys that can do a lot of things in the, in the, you know, with the puck on their stick as well. They have some of those guys. They don't necessarily have, you know, the Axel Sandian Pelica that they've had for the last few years. But that is a team because of Stenberg. And the thing is, like, Stenberg is going to play all year in the SHL, and he is going to be a factor. If he plays like he did in the playoffs for Fulunda this past year,

we're talking about a guy that is going, you know, Gavin McKenna is going to be the number one guy. But I think that we're going to be talking about Stenberg as really, if he's not the number two guy, you know, right in that, top three. I think he's going to have a huge year in the SHL. I think he could potentially put up, you know, numbers like we don't typically see for a draft eligible player in that league because of the situation that he's going to be in,

because of his maturity, the speed, the fact that he's just so hard to knock off the puck and is going to play the body as much as he can, there's so much I like about the player. He does so many things well. And I think he's a big reason that, you know, Sweden is going to have a real chance in this tournament. His wall play over the last four or five events that I've seen him at is phenomenal. Like getting up and under sticks and then finding ways to pull pucks through guys, get off the wall, get to the inside.

He is an impressive, impressive player. And one of the questions for me coming into this was who's going to play with if Frundel's your 1C and Eklins, your one right wing, who's going to be the one left wing with them? And I think it's, I think Lucas Pedersen, who's another lefty, has been very good here. but if you're loading up, it's got to be Stenberg, Frundell, Eklund, and that could be even matching up against the Canadians,

that could be one of the very best lines in the event. And then we can close with McKenna, Scott. I mean, obviously we've only seen one game from him. I thought that line started pretty good, him and Michael Misa

playing off each other. It wasn't maybe the single loudest game, but you made a comment to me as we were watching in the press box. You were like, it does just look a little different with him. Yes. Yeah,

I actually thought the McKenna Mesa, carbino line outside of a few flashes early was relatively quiet. But there are just a few moments over the course of every single game that Gavin McKenna has ever played in where he just skates a puck up ice and he weaves through traffic and he enters the offensive zone with speed and his head is up the whole way and he finds a guy back door and it's just the little things. With the puck on his stick, he's just operating at a different level than everybody else. And that is noticeable even when he's not the best player on the ice.

wasn't the best player on the ice yesterday, but it's still just a little different. He's just got a look to him. And I'm fascinated to see what it looks like at Penn State this year. They've got a little bit of a unique makeup with their forwards with guys like Luke Misa and Nadine Fink. They're not a particularly heavy team. Charlie Serato plays heavy, but even Charlie Serato's six foot. So it's going to be, it's going to be interesting for him there. And he's going to have to really just take over games. And I think he will. But I'll be interested to see whether it gets to Baderd level in terms of by the time the

world juniors roll around, it was Baderd every single game. In Halifax, he was the story every single night. He was the best player on the ice in every single game he played in in that tournament. And when they needed him to score, he scored. We didn't get that from McKenna a year ago. I think we might get that from him this year. and if he's playing with Berkeley Caton or Michael Nisa or whoever his center is, he's going to do a lot of damage in this thing.

But there's there's a lot of excitement right now. And I'll be interested to see whether he can he can meet and match that excitement in the way that Bedard did at the same age. Yeah. And I think if he doesn't, you know, I think that we, the, the Baderd hype was so chaotic and frenetic. I mean, in the end, you know, if I think we're going to talk about McKenna in a lot of lot of the same tones in terms of how we viewed celebrini in his draft year. Whereas celebrating, the initial thought was he's not like Baderd. But in the end, he's probably better, you know, like in terms of he's a more complete player,

he's a more, you know, he does a lot of those things. And he wouldn't get the hype because the numbers were not such that they were going to be, you know, 72 goals and all this other stuff that we could, we could point to with, with Connor Bidard. But I do think, like, you also look at Penn State's non-conference schedule. there's going to be a real opportunity for for Gavin McKenna have somewhere around 20 points before Big 10 play starts. So it's kind of like, you know, like I mean, you know, it's it's one of those things where, you know, he'll be able to kind of get into it. I do think that, you know, as they kind of build momentum into the Big Ten schedule, there will be tougher games.

You know, Michigan, Michigan State, you know, it'll even be tough to play Wisconsin, Ohio State. Like, those are going to be hard games. and so that'll be really fascinating. But, you know, I know we want to look ahead, but there's one thing that I wanted to bring up, Max, before we got out of here. And that is we got to see Matthew Schaefer play hockey yesterday. Yes.

And so, you know, Schaefer, it has been since December, and to ask a player that has had as much time off, and I know he got reps at development camp with the Islanders, but to have a player that's had as much time off as he has, and to ask him to come into a split squad Canadian game with 21 first-round draft picks on the ice and to keep up after having that much time off, I was actually fairly stunned at how quickly he was reading the plays, how quickly he was getting back, the things he was doing.

Now, I think there is a ways to go in terms of refining, making the snap decisions with the puck, but he was making quick decisions with the puck. He was doing things that I think are going to be really helpful. So I plan to grade him on a curve in terms of like, oh, and really he didn't need that. So that's a great sign for where he's at. I did ask him, you know,

in terms of how he felt about his confidence, taking contact. It was a little more physical. It's going to be more physical against some of these other teams. I think Sweden has actually been incredibly physical. I don't know if he's actually going to play against that. but, you know, I think that seeing him play a game and seeing all of the tools that were there, I think that's really exciting.

He's another guy, though, where if he has a good training camp, there's a good chance that he's not going to be on this team. He is committed to trying to make the Islanders out of camp. Scott and I have both had this conversation. Is it going to be the right decision for him to, after so much, time off, try to jump in. The one example that I'm going to bring up, and this isn't a one-to-one, but I thought that the pandemic, we saw Lexi Lafranier have a long layoff, and then the Rangers tried

to force him in, and it didn't work, and it took him a while. And he's gotten on track, but he's never going to meet the hype of what he was as a prospect. There is such a thing as too much too soon. I don't think it's a disaster if he goes back to Erie. I don't think it is a problem if he does. And in the end, he gets to, this would be his team as much as it is anybody else's, this Canadian team.

And Erie would be his team. And that's a great place for him to be. I don't think the Islanders are going to be particularly great next year. I don't know if that's necessarily the situation you want to put him in. I think it would be very difficult to send him back knowing where he's at right now. You give him every opportunity. Maybe you give him the nine games. I really do think that the Islanders and Matthew Schaefer would be best served with him not playing in the NHL next year, even though we're seeing him transition.

Now, that could change in a couple of months, but I really do think that this is a guy that probably is going to need a little more time to get himself to the level that he was at pre-injury. But we saw a great start on that path in the split squad game. I will say too, and not again, that it's a perfect one-to-one. But one of those players in Lafranier is a year older and a winger. And when have we ever seen a defenseman who is going to start training camp as a 17-year-old? When have we ever seen a defenseman in recent years make that job? I mean, we're watching guys struggle to, we're in Simon Nemich, a second overall pick, struggled to make it until he's 21, 22, right?

Yeah. David Eurecheck struck. And now Matthew Schaefer is a different level than those players. But even yesterday, I thought he looked as great as he looked. I thought he also looked like someone who hadn't played hockey in a while. Agreed. And just like almost like he was hectic out there. Like he wanted to be everywhere.

He wanted to skate pucks up. He wanted to jump and close gaps. He was scrambling back and he can do that because of his skating. But I'm in full agreement with Chris. I do not think the eriotters is a bad spot for Matthew Schaefer, given the time off, given how few games. he's played given his age the whole bit. And to Chris's point, I think the leadership group for this team is already set in stone.

It's going to be some combination of Matthew Schaefer, Porter, Martone, and Berkeley, Catton. I think those, if those three guys are all there, Katten and Schaefer obviously not a guarantee. But if those three guys are there, that's going to be your C and your two A's. I'd be pretty surprised if it's anybody else. And so he gets to have the shine of the world juniors and live in the limelight and make plays and fly up and down the ice and feel really good about his game going into next year. And I don't know with his time off whether he can even feel really good and confident about where his game is at right now. He's going to play tonight and that'll be it too.

They're sending the returnees home after tonight's game. So he's going to have two games entering two real games entering training camp. Yeah, it's about picking the right precedent, right? We know the first overall pick tends to go right to the NHL, but top defensemen do not. Top defensemen tend to take at least one year after their draft class. A lot of them have been college, right? McCar was college. Hughes was college.

Even Hayskin, though, he was in pro in Europe. He took the extra year before he made the jump. And those are the kind of players that the New York Islanders want Matthew Schaefer to turn into. I think picking the right precedent here is the key for them. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, and to Scott's point, it's all. about the little, the little details in Matthew Schaefer's game, like, like the reads and

different things. Like he, he, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was always just, he was just, yeah, he was, but the one thing I will say that I was reminded of is how good of a backward skater he is. Oh my God. I mean, it, he might be one of the best out there. Like, his, the, the, the little effort it takes for him to get back into position is insane to me. Um, his backward, like, you know, skating, obviously, we talk about skating all the time, but the backward skating is such a different thing. And, you know, just his crossovers and just the ground that he covers in like two strides is just incredible to me. If he is on this team come December, the potential between him and Harris and Brunachie as a shutdown pair has to be just absolutely terrifying for other teams. The defensive acumen there. And there was a

moment yesterday. I'll just say this. Schaefer was calling for a puck. They were kind of on a regroup. And Brunachie looked off the first pick in the draft, held on. to it for an extra second and made the exact right decision to the weak side, set up the break. I was like, all right. Like, not only is that a nice play, it's a good sign that he feels confident enough that he can just look off that Schaefer actively calling for the puck there. Good for him. Yeah, no kidding.

Feather in his cap. Talk about skating. And Sam Dickinson's a great skater, but the second best skater on this blue line is Harrison Brunachie. So for them to play together could be a, uh, oh, it'd be a terrifying shutdown pair. Terrified. Yeah, and they still could put points up too. So crazy.

Yeah. All right, fellas, we got a game to get to pretty quick here. So I'm going to let everybody go. We'll talk to you soon on the athletic hockey show. You can catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey on his podcast called up. See you soon.