The Athletic Hockey Show - Who gets 4 Nations roster spots for the US and Canada?

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

On today’s Monday show, Max and Laz build out their 4 Nations rosters for the US and Canada, with The Athletic’s NHL insider Pierre LeBrun weighing in on potential snubs of Patrick Kane and Steven Stamkos and Jesse Granger’s thoughts on the goaltending options for all four teams. First, the guys discuss what’s changed in the year since Adam Johnson’s tragic death in England.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Pierre LeBrun and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. Pierre LeBrun is going to join us shortly. But first, Laz, you got a story come out today that I wanted to spend a little bit of time on at the top of the show here, a year after Adam Johnson's death. Why are NHL players resistant to skate cut protection? You and Sean Gentilly took a look on the anniversary of the Adam Johnson tragic death year. What did you learn in reporting out this story? Well, I mean, the idea of the story is what's changed, right?

What's changed in the NHL in the year that this happened? And the answer is frankly nothing. Like there's like a handful, there's a maybe one or two guys on every team that are wearing some kind of neck protection. But hockey players are very stubborn. They're very set in their ways. T.J. Oshy, who, you know, his company War Road makes a lot of the skate resistant material. He basically said that he said, there's guys out here wearing the same cups they wore in junior. Like, this is what hockey players do.

So, you know, I went around and I talked to a bunch of players and Sean talked to a bunch of manufacturers. And we're seeing a ton of change in the lower leagues where this has become mandated immediately. But in the NHL, they can't just unilaterally say you have to wear this stuff. And very few hockey players are going to wear this stuff unless they're forced to. And that's something that's just not happening. I think in the long run, we're going to see this be kind of like visors, kind of like helmets

where eventually it trickles up from the lower leagues. They're mandatory in the lower leagues. So guys who enter the league in the next 10, 15 years will be used to it. They'll be wearing it and they'll just continue to wear it. But for now, I mean, there's so many guys that they say it's uncomfortable. They say it looks weird. They say it's too hot. They say it's just not what they like.

They need to be the way they want to be. And I don't know. When this happened, did you think that we were going to see guys go, oh, my God, this could happen to me too. I'm going to start wearing this stuff. I perhaps naively thought that that was going to happen. I did not. I wore a neckguard growing up playing. And the second that I was allowed to take it off, I did and haven't gone back

frankly. And I did make one one change just personally when I play recreationally, which is to, I bought the cut resistant skate socks. But I kind of felt like if that's my impulse and I am not playing at a at a level anywhere like that, these guys are going to be even more sensitive to the slight inconvenience. And I admit that it is a slight inconvenience that a neck guard is. But it's just distracting enough to annoy me. And so my, my gut was it would be the same for for NHLers. I mean, Wayne Gretzky wore a turtleneck that wasn't skate resistant. I mean, it's not that big a deal. Most of these guys, 95% of NHL players are wearing some form of like underarmor shirt

underneath their gear. What is another inch or two on your neck? I just, I can't fathom when you see, I remember when this first happened, I wrote a story like the day we learned about Adam Johnson's death. And I talked to Haley Wickenhizer, who was, you know, an actual doctor. And she said, you know, you think that this is a freak accident. Everyone's going to say this is a freak accident. But it happens all the time.

There are near misses almost every single game where someone goes flying through the crease or gets checked into the bores and their legs are dangling up in the air. There are guys getting hit with skates all the time. Jason Dickinson almost took out Laocco's eye, the Boston Bruin, almost took out his eye last year. Like this happens all the time. It seems like I don't understand guys who won't wear visors. I don't understand guys who won't wear anything that will protect them from these knives guys are running around on. The guys are bigger, faster, stronger than ever. and they're wearing deadly weapons on their feet.

It seems like a no-brainer to me. I think eventually it will get there. And I think part of it is the tech has to catch up, right? Like the skate resistant socks that I bought are virtually indistinguishable. They're a little bit thicker and you don't notice really anything else. My experience with neck guards, and again, I haven't tried one in the last couple of years. So maybe it's already getting there. They're a noticeably bulkier.

I don't wear any underarmor and I don't think every guy does. but I think that is the biggest anything that you're not used to makes a big difference and the neck guards historically have been quite a bit bulkier than that mature. There's a line on the story I think, right, about how that was one of the workarounds guys would use is they would basically cut a piece

of that type of fabric and they would just wear that even though it did nothing for them. Yeah, they'd be it turned into a little tiny necklace that had offered no protection just so they can get around the rule which is, you know, to go to those lengths and not protect yourself is really quite like I know these are professional athletes and perhaps no

no sport more than hockey, these guys feel they're invincible. They can't be touched. They are just, none of this is ever going to happen to them. But it does happen. And, you know, just because it's a little warm because you look like a dork, that's just not a good enough reason. I don't think it's the dork thing. Oh, there's a lot of the dork thing.

There's a lot of the dork thing. There's a lot of guys who thinks it doesn't look cool. 100%. I have not had anyone say that to me. And I would be a little surprised. I think we're underrating, maybe overrating the appeal and the tough guy factor and underrating how much it's like a look good or not look good. It's like a feel good play good thing. If you are thinking about anything other than hockey, if you are feeling anything other than, you know, this is my normal flow state.

I think that is what is what they're trying to avoid above all. And I think, you know, you talk about warm, like the sweatiness, itchiness. No, does it really matter? No. But if it distracts you from doing your job, that's kind of more. my sense is what it is. Yeah, I mean, I was surprised when Jason Dickinson, who I think is one of the brightest, most thoughtful guys in the NHL, uh, he said he doesn't wear it because he's worried about overheating and cramping and getting lightheaded. That really surprised me because this stuff is

pretty thin. And, you know, you talk to Jeff Skinner and you talk to TJ Yoshi, they say, it's weird for like two practices. And then it's just another piece of equipment that you don't think about. I really do think that if these guys just wore one for a week in the summer, they wouldn't think twice about it. Just like, oh, they weren't like 30 pounds of gear. What is this one little strip of fabric going to really do to you. You'll get used to it. Just like you'll get used to a visor, just like anything else. It's not that big a deal, and it could save your life.

Yeah, look, I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'm not saying that I... Max, put on a neck guard. Like I said, I took one step here. I will eventually get around to the other. I don't want to lose another co-host for worse reasons than last time. Put on a neck guard. It's a fair, but my encouragement out of reading your story is that because of the

mandates at the lower levels, the companies will improve the tech. They will put more resources to it. They're going to sell enough of them that it's going to become a very viable place to do that kind of R&D. And when that happens, they will come up with a product that I think becomes much more amiable people. Like, when I bought the skate socks that I bought, I asked the guy like, are these going to be like, drive me crazy?

And he was like, no, actually. Like, I remember the last ones. These are a huge step up. So I said, okay, tried them, have never gone back. And so my suspicion is within the next year or two, I will have the same exact situation with a neckguard. It's just a matter of getting the tech there, I think. And again, the fact that, you know, Joey Anderson was friend, he plays for the Blackhawks.

He was friends with Adam Johnson. They played together at Duluth. And the reason he wore a neck guard, he said he would have regardless, but he was in the H.L at the time, and they mandated it. And he wore it. And he's like, oh, well, this is dumb not to wear. Of course I'm going to wear this forever. And he got to the NHL, he looked around.

He was like the only guy in the room wearing it. You know, I think in the Blackhawks room, Wyatt Kaiser, a young player is the only other one who does. And you go team to team. There's always like one guy, maybe two. You know, even T.J. Oshy, who's like who this is his side hustle, basically, is he has a company that does this stuff, couldn't convince any of his teammates to wear it. Not a single one.

He brought in like a half a dozen of them the day after Adam Johnson's death and a bunch of guys tried them and they didn't stick with them. So if these guys who are really passionate about and have a connection to Adam Johnson and to this equipment can't make you do it, then we're just going to have to wait for it to trickle up from the minor leagues. Yeah, and I think the key is, is it. going to be like the helmets and warm up thing where guys get to certain status and they immediately throw the helmet off, which that's my thing of like, how can you not be wearing your helmet and warm up? Pucks are flying everywhere. Yeah. Of course, no one used to wear their helmet and warm up. And it's only now, I only now notice the guys who don't do it because so many do.

And we've seen enough ties where a puck goes off the crossbar, hits a guy in the head in warmups, happened to Connor Murphy a couple years ago. We see this happen. Right. And so if the guys coming up from those lower levels who have worn it their whole lives, who feel pretty comfortable. If they continue to do it in the NHL, then it will quickly become the norm. But if they get to the NHL and immediately rip it off because they're no longer being mandated to,

we're going to keep having this conversation every year or two. I mean, we saw this with visors, right? Visors are not mandatory in the NHL if you've been in the league since before, like, what, 2014, 2015, something around then. And there's still a lot of guys in the league that don't wear visors. These guys are hitting slap shots, you know, eye-level slap shots. about 95 miles an hour, there's sticks flying, there's skates flying, and there's still guys that refuse to wear visors. The stubbornness of these athletes, it's almost impressive if it wasn't so

stupid. All right, well, on that note, Laz, we are now joined by our NHL insider, Pierre LeBron. So maybe this is a voice that can give us a little bit of insight into what it would take for neck guards to become mandatory and even just a more accepted part of the NHL. Yeah, I mean, all roads, as always, lead through the NHLPA. If you're going to mandate any kind of form of equipment, that's what happened with the decades-long visor negotiations over the years, as it should be. The players have a say in what they wear.

And, you know, you can always argue that, you know, the players need to get there faster when it comes to safety. But you cannot argue that it should, that they shouldn't have a kind of say that they have because they're the ones out there on the ice. And so, yeah, there have been talks between the league and the PA for the past year, obviously since this tragedy, we know, and you guys, you know, I've talked about it, but the league has had a lot of discussions with different manufacturers, and they keep looking at this.

And so, you know, they'll continue to talk to the PA about that's why you have a competition committee, which has both NHLPA and NHL officials on it and players. But, you know, it's, it's, it's, I remember we all wrote about this last year and it's just such a comfort thing for some players who, who, as soon as they get out of junior or college, they get rid of the neck guard. It's, it's kind of crazy. But, you know, never mind the NHL. I mean, it's funny because I just got back from Lake Placid, New York yesterday. My daughter had a tournament there. It was my third time in Lake Placid in 11 months. So apparently Toronto people just go to Lake Placid for hockey tournaments. But, uh, my daughter, my daughter had a tournament. So, You know, last year, I was so hit by the fact that the American teams in the tournament, when we were there last year, none of the kids, are almost very few of the kids that neck guards on, whereas the Canadian teams, the Canadian players, youth hockey teams, it's mandated. Now, finally, USA hockey has changed that, I believe. So I saw a lot more neck guards this weekend, and it honestly comforted me for obvious reasons.

But, you know, I wrote about it. this last year and I think a lot of people mocked me for it but I talked to a manufacturer in Montreal that makes head to toe uniform for speed skaters and cut resistant of course speed skaters right and and the thing that I thought about and I actually asked a few NHL players about it and they gave me kind of a weird look but then they're like I don't know I'd try it is are we going to get to the point one day where it's head to toe. Like, why is it piecemeal? You know, first you get the wrist things and then you do it.

Speed skaters who go 100 miles an hour and have these, you know, these big skates on, they wear this head to toe cut resistant thing that can breathe quite well. And I'm just wondering why we don't get there one day with NHL players where you protect every inch of your body. Well, are the speed skaters wearing that for protection or for aerodynamics, though? Well, definitely protection is a huge part of it. Absolutely. Like short track, I know there's this huge pile-ups all the time in short-track.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. No, it's an important issue. And, you know, it's, it takes a long time. If you look at the history of hockey for these things to change.

I mean, again, this was a league without helmets. This was a league where goalies didn't wear a mask. Still unbelievable to me that that ever happened. Yeah. It's a great story on the athletic from, from Lazan, Sean. a year after Adam Johnson's death, why your NHL player is resistant to skate cup protection. Go check that out.

We're going to move now into our main topic for the show today, Pierre, which we're talking a lot of four nations here. And very timely, you just had an article. We're going to focus a lot on USA and Canada, but you had an article with Finland's general manager, Yuri Lutton. What did you learn from catching up with him? Well, yes, I figured we need to not just write about Canada and the US, right?

There are four teams in the four nations, right? It's called the foreign nations. You know, and Finland, you know, just for some context, I've been, honestly, the highlights of my career, best on best hockey, dating back to 2002 in Salt Lake City. When Canada won in Salt Lake, a picture of Marty Bruder behind me there from 2002. And, you know, I've done 2002 and the 2004 World Cup, 06 Olympics, 2010, 2014 Olympics. It's the best hockey alive. When you have the best NHL players going at it. And honestly, one of my favorite memories ever is Sweden winning in Torino, Italy.

And that generational team of Lidsstrom, Sundin, and Forsberg, you know, not only finally winning, but, you know, avenging their embarrassment of O2 in Salt Lake when they lost to Belarus in the quarterfinals. I'll never forget being there for that 11 a.m. quarterfinal in the Salt Lake with about nine people in the stands. Do you remember the newspaper? There was a newspaper in screen that put mugshots. Mugshots of all of them and said like traitors or something like that. Like, oh, my God. So it was amazing to see the Swedes with their redemption gold medal in 06. But obviously since then, it's been the Cindy Crosby show and Team Canada romping in Best-on-Best until we didn't have Best-on-Best.

So this is why I'm beyond excited to be covering the Four Nations this year here and seeing, you know, where all these guys that haven't had the chance to do this, you know, how they fare heading into Italy in 26. So, but going back to Finland, your question, Max, I mean, you know, the Finns have always been a tough out. And the other thing is, and we're really generalizing here, but in the best on best hockey from the last 25 years, they tend to come together more quickly than the other top nations. So that's the one advantage they usually have. On the other hand, this is the most talented team they've ever had. And, you know, Yeri Littenden, who was the GM, the former great Yer Lettin,

He doesn't want to come out and say it that way. I'll say it. But, you know, they feel absolutely that this is the deepest they've ever been in the history of their country down the middle. Of course they should. Barkoff, Ajo, Rupi Hints, come on. Like, this is not what the Finns have had all over the years. They've always had good goaltending, tenacious players, great wingers like Timoselani, obviously, like Gary Littenden. But to be this star-studded down the middle is a real departure.

And as Yerri Littenden said, he hopes that it influences a whole generation. of Finnish players, you know, to want to be centers and emulate these players. But on the other hand, because the Finns are arguably deeper than they've ever been, they're having to make USA-Canada-like decisions. I think that there's going to be some surprises here because a couple of times, both the area Littenden and assistant GM, Yarmokai Kalennan told me, you know, we need some, you know, we need to find certain players that accept their roles and we need to make a team here. that is really similar to what you hear Bill Garan and Don Sweedy talk about

and John Cooper told me the same thing last week about Team Canada. So I don't know, obviously they're not going to get into what that means player-wise, but I suspect we'll have a few surprises, both in terms of who makes it and who doesn't. And I pointed out an example in my piece, he's not a star by any measure, but I know that one of the players that Finnish management is paying close attention to is Yol Armea in Montreal because he kills penalties. and he's a big guy and they're not that big a team. And so, yeah, you got all these stars, you know, Miro Heiskenen and Miko Ranton

and all this star power, but they're also looking at some of the supporting cast and there might be some support. I don't know, I'm not saying they'll take Armia, but it's an example of a guy in the bubble that they're looking at. So that part interests me too. I always think of Finland as one of those teams that at international events, really at every level, from like U-18 up, they come in and you're like, yeah, not the most talented roster,

and damned if they're not right there in the metal round, giving USA or Canada a heck of a ride. And I wonder what that looks like with that star power. Now you have, and all those centers, by the way, Barcov, Hints, Aho, Lundel, these are premium two-way centers in the league. They can certainly still play that international finish style of hockey. Well, and we got into this.

But so you mentioned Anton Lundell. So after those top three centers, they got to make a call. Who's going to be their fourth-line center? And again, that's a role. Will it be a rising start? are in Lundell. Will it be Eric Holla, who's more used to that role probably in terms of the national team.

Michael Granlin has been a national team mainstay forever. He plays center and wing. And one of the things Kay Kalen said is, you know, it's okay to have centers play wing, which I think was a bit of a hint. So I think Lundell definitely will make it. I think Holla will probably make it, you know. But the point is, and yes, Barry Cockneyemi, who has struggled the last few years, I think under the weight of that whole offer seat situation.

situation. He's had a good start to the season and he's playing top six minutes finally in Carolina, centering at second line with Martin Nietzsche's. Where does Cocheneum end up now in this conversation with Team Finland? So those are a lot of different centers for Finland to decide on, but I suspect they'll take more than four centers and just have them play wing. As Yermo said, seems to have work for Team Canada over the years to have centers play wing and obviously he's right about that. Let's turn our attention to the U.S. and Canada, which have plenty of difficult decisions of their own to make. And I want to,

we wanted to zero in on a few guys. Max and I put together our own projections that we'll get into. But it was interesting because Max had Patrick Kane on his, and I completely had forgotten about Patrick Kane. I only covered him for a decade. What? I completely, I know. What's wrong with you?

I didn't even have him in my snubs list. I didn't even think about it, which is amazing to me that he's even, that it is possible that he's reached a point where he might not be able to make a team like this. He's been such a fixture. Do you see Patrick Kane? Is he a lock,

or is he really on that bubble right now? again, and Bill Garron's not tipping his hand, so it's really up to the three of us to read between the lines. I think he'll make it. And I think that experience matters at this level. And it's certainly a tiebreaker element, I think, to be able to absorb that kind of stage. And, you know, he has such a rich history, both Stanley Cup-wise and internationally. So, but, you know, the one thing Bill Garron has to be able to absorb. said early on, and he's since then been a little more tight-lipped. But if you look at some of the

first comments from Bill Garron, I think it was probably in a Mike Russo story, there was some hints there from the Team USA GM about putting together a team and not necessarily an offensive juggernaut. There's still going to be a ton of offense on Team USA. But I think you got the sense early on that there are going to be some guys left off this team for Team USA that you guys are going to lose your minds over. Well, that's just it. I mean, Patrick Kane is not going to kill penalties. He's not going to play on a fourth line.

Like, if he's on your team, he has to be in that kind of top six, top nine role. And boy, they got a lot of really skilled players in the U.S. right now. But again, he won't be overwhelmed by the moment either. No, certainly. Which I think is part of the conversation. So, yeah, it's, listen, it's, you know, you could have the same debate about Stephen Stamcoast and Team Canada. You know, I don't believe he's a sure thing, even though he's

toward 40 goals again last year. But, you know, it's finding players that are going to fit in certain roles. And, you know, the takeaway quote from my interview with John Cooper last week, the team Canada coach was that's part of our conversation. As we take the 23 best players or the 23 players that make us the best team possible. That's not even hinting. That's literally you understand what Canada is talking about there. And I think Bill Guerin and the U.S. management teams having a very similar conversation.

Remember, NHL ice, it's an NHL tournament on NHL ice, but also the Olympics in Italy, which really, let's be honest, I'm not trying to take away from four nations, but this is all about Italy for all these four countries. Absolutely. Italy's being played in NHL ice. I want to mention that again, because I think a lot of fans having grasped onto that, but this is NHL ice dimensions in Italy with the rinks they're building, which means that, you play well in the four nations, you've got a really good chance to stay on that team for

the Olympics because of all that. In other words, you know, when the Olympics were in Sochi, that wasn't quite NHL ice. It also wasn't international. I remember writing about this. I'm such a nerd, but it was really kind of a hybrid in between ice surface and Sochi in 2014. but basically Canada in particular treated it as big ice and it's why they played that sort of it was boring with a very surgical keepaway game it was awful they were never pressured the Olympics

they ruined the greatest tournament in the world I'm still mad at them for the way they played they were so good but it was so boring they were the big bullies who just came in and said this will not be a competition that's what they did those days are over and that's why I'm excited by four nations too and I don't want to have my passport taken away but those days are over and it's not just because you know Canada is obviously not producing goalies like they used to or at least at the elite level

but just in general the world is caught up like this is an exciting time for hockey you know it's certainly getting me the best team USA team ever I think I'm not guaranteeing that they're going to win gold in Italy, but on paper, this will be the deepest USA roster talent-wise in the history of USA hockey. But also Sweden, Finland. Look around, man. There's a lot of star power among the elite countries. And yeah, you see that play out at the men's world championships every year. And I love, I have a big place in my heart from men's world that covered six of them back in the day. But it's not best on best. You're getting the guys that you can get that aren't in the HL playoffs or aren't injured.

This is why the Four Nations is going to be such a tantalizing appetizer before Italy, because we've not seen this kind of hockey since the 2016 World Cup. Austin Matthews has never got to play best on best hockey for team USA, because, of course, the North America thing was a, you know, was a weird old thing in 2016. Connor McDavid has never played best on best for Canada, best player in the world. So this whole thing in February is going to be, you know, you don't want to over-dramatize the result, regardless of who wins.

But at least we'll give you a glimpse of what we can expect in Italy a year later, as far as how these players gel and become a team and how they look and fair. And it's going to be fantastic. That's Saturday in Montreal where you get Finland, Sweden, the afternoon, and Canada, US a night. Holy, unreal. All right. Two more guys I want to ask about before we let you go.

One is Drew Dowdy, who obviously has the injury. And I don't know what complications that poses when these guys have a roster deadline in a month. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how teams, you know, it's funny because I was asking Gary letting in about Patrick Lainey, too, and kind of got a non-answer. So you can name an injured player. And if he's still injured or not physically there, then you can replace them even after the December 2nd deadline. Those are within the rules.

You know, true doubt is going to be back before the February tournament. So, you know, it's a good question. You know, do you, is it a matter that much to just take healthy, to name healthy players on December 2nd and guys that are playing well and not even risk a, you know, a guy that's on the men, I think Dowdy will be on the team. I just think he means so much. He's, him and Crosby are those links to those.

great best-on-best tournaments for Canada, and I think that part of it's important because there's massive turnover otherwise. And of course, Dowdy would not be the guy that has to carry that team. I mean, Kilmachar is obviously the anchor for that Canadian Blue Line. So I think if all goes well with Dowdy's, you know, being on the men and they know that he'll be back playing NHL games for a good month before the February event, I think they'll name him. And then the other one would be Seth Jones. In this one, I'm even more fascinating. by because three years ago, he was in that first three that was named to that team. So you know USA hockey loves him and has that affinity for him.

He's obviously gotten a little older. There's always the debate on, you know, is he as good as the scouts say or as bad as the analytics say and all that? And I tend to lean more with the scouts, frankly, on this one. And the scouts are picking the team here. So I wonder if Seth Jones doesn't make his way on a team USA by the end of this, too. That's a good one. And of course, you know, he has USA hockey.

history, right? And, you know, I think we still underrate both from a USA hockey perspective and the hockey Canada perspective, how much that matters those who have answered the call. And so, but, boy, I don't know, there's so many good choices, all that U.S. blue line. You know, the other thing is that I wonder how much Bill Guerrins will value size because it's an NHL ice tournament. You know, we've seen how the last two Stanley Cup, champions have the old outdoor blue lines in Vegas and Florida. It's, I wonder how much of that is, you know, how big these teams want to get for this tournament. I wouldn't, I would not overplay that card. I think that at the end of the day, the most talented guys are going to win this

event, but that would help Seth Jones probably as if they got all these all-world puck movers with Team USA, but you need something a little different there. You know, it's funny, I ran into Brian McDonough last week here in Toronto, lightning were in town. He'd be, he would love to play, obviously, but, you know, that's an interesting one where you go, do we, you know, that guy is a shutdown guy. So in terms of rules for Team USA,

we've got all these all-world offensive, fuck moving brilliance on our blue line, but we need a different element there. He'd be another example, wouldn't he? Yeah. No, it's a great debate, and there's other guys that are, you know, Noah Hannafin is like a bubble guy on this team.

And maybe on the wrong side of the bubble, frankly. Like there are going to be elite. Because of all the fucking moving ability. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. In the U.S., I think, you know, you look at guys like Jake Sanderson, Charlie McAvoy, maybe Brock Fabers in that mix.

And you have some of these, you know, smaller puck movers that just happened to be great defenders, too, that it poses some really tough decisions. You know, and I wonder what you guys think, because, you know, we've never had four nations. and like I think the players are going to take this pretty seriously because they know that basically at stake is their role in the Olympics a year later. But what's the physicality going to be like in that first Canada U.S. round robbing game? Like no one wants to get hurt, but I think they're not going to be able to help themselves. I think they're going to go after each other.

I think it starts kind of like guys are easing their way into it. And then as they realize what the action is like, it's going to ratchet up. And by the time we get to that, you know, the final game there, going to be, I mean, it could be a blood feud. It's been the biggest topic in any, in any player-centric, you know, space, whether it's CBA, you know, they want this best on best. They've wanted these Olympics. They're not going to hold it back now that they've got it. I don't, this isn't the All-Star game. And no, I will never talk All-Star. So just you guys need to know that. And the other thing

is we should mention, before I go, like, this is a great window that's opening here, you know. Gary Batman and Bill Daley confirm this. again at the Board of Governors earlier this month. But this is a start now of what they believe and hope, depending on the next CBA, but the PA's on board as well. Every two years now, best on best. So after the Italy Olympics, they want a full-fledged NHL-HL-HLPA World Cup of hockey in 28, then the 30 Olympics, then the 32 World Cup, and on and on and on,

that's what finally, finally, the NHL-L-NelPA want to have as a mainstay is basically best-on-best every two years. which has forever been a plan and a vision, but different CBAs and different circumstances, you know, pulling out of China because of COVID, the Olympics. A lot of different things have happened over the last 30 years that has prevented a consistent best-time-best calendar, international calendar from happening. But it appears we are finally there, which is pretty phenomenal. Music to my ears for sure.

Thanks so much for joining us, Pierre. We'll take a quick break right there. All right, we are back in Las. Let's get into this now for our four nations roster projections. We're just going to do USA and Canada today, although Pierre is right. This is a four nations tournament, but it would be a really, really long episode if we debated these all four rosters here. So we're going to stick with USA and Canada today. Maybe we circle back on the others at some point.

But I want to hear your USA projection here right off the hop. All right, you want the whole lineup? Yeah. I mean, let me with the forwards. All right. I got on my top line, I got Brady Kachuk, Austin Matthews, Cichuk, which I think is just, you know, you can't do much better than that in so many different ways. My second line, J.T. Miller, Jack Eichl, Brock Besser, kind of taking that built-in chemistry with

Miller and Besser and put Eichel in the middle there. Third line, Jason Robertson, Jack Hughes, Jake Gensel, and fourth line, Kyle Connor, Tage Thompson, and Clayton Keller with Vincent Trocheck and Dylan Larkin as my extras. Okay. So I have two questions about that setup here. Okay. Are you sure you want to double down and use both kichucks on one line? I do. You don't want to spread that out through the lineup a little more? No, I kind of want to have like Austin Matthews with just like two human wrecking balls on his wings. I want to see what that looks like, right?

Now, this is the trick because there's no real ramp up for this. It's not like there's going to be like pre-tournament games where you can really kind of figure things out here. So there's going to be a lot of tweaking and line blending on the fly, but I want to see what that line looks like. I definitely think those guys can play together. And I do love the idea of a of a brutal Cedines, so to speak, as the United States top line. But I just think those are such, you know, game-changing players with the dimensions that they bring that I would want to not use them all on one line that's only on the ice for 20 minutes a game. I would want to have one of them on the ice for like 40 minutes. That's my only concern is beyond that, I have all skill.

Like I don't have a lot of grinders. I don't have penalty. Like I really wanted to like I vint and Trocheck is. kind of an extra, I feel like he can play kind of a more versatile game. And even my snubs, it's like Cole Cawfield and Alex DeBringit and Matt Boldy, maybe Chris Kreider. Like, these are still highly skilled players. I have a tough time finding, you know, room for role players, even though I know that's the best way to build a team for this. Yeah, that was my second question is who on earth is killing penalties here? I know Matthews can do it. I think the Kchukes could

do it. I think you can have Miller do it. But all of a sudden, now you have your top line and your first power play is also PK1 and how many minutes do you think you're going to milk out of these guys. Hey, but we're talking a few games here. It's not like they're playing 50 games. We need them to go sprint for 10 days, however long this tournament's going to be. I think they could pull it off. All right. Here's what I have. And you can critique mine then. So I definitely thought of it much more in a like, what is everyone's role on this team here? And that'll be reflected. So I put Jack Hughes on the wing with Austin Matthews and Matthew Chuck. I think that gives you elite skating and playmaking, elite scoring and elite physical game all on one line.

I tried to kind of replicate that. Maybe it doesn't have that speed element on the second line, but Jason Robertson, Jack Eichl, and Brady Kachuk. Third line, I put Matt Boldy in there with Dylan Larkin and Clayton Keller. And the fourth line, I probably should have put J.T. Miller on that third line instead of Boldie. But I have the fourth line is J.T. Miller, Vincent Trocheck, and Brock Nelson. And my bottom two lines there have much more, I think, purposeful role. goals here. So I think Trocheck and Nelson, those are your go-to top penalty killers. Obviously, Larkin

can do it. I think J.T. Miller can do it. I think Boldie can do it, even though he hasn't done it a ton this year. That's how I sort of threw it. So you're going to leave off a six-foot-six-47 goal score in Tage Thompson completely? He was a tough one. Honestly, I think as this seat, I started putting this together and he had a big outburst over the weekend. Yeah, he's looking like his old self again this year. I can definitely see a place for him here. I don't know who comes out there. Maybe it's Keller for me. Maybe it's Boldy. I probably

would be playing Tage on the wing. But he definitely has a case. I mean, the hardest cuts for me were like, and I had Patrick Kane as the 13th, by the way. I should have mentioned that. Yeah, let's talk about Kane a little bit. We touch on it with Pierre. And it is kind of funny to me that I completely forgot about Kane, a guy

I've spent the majority of my adult life covering. But he's, he, see, the problem I have a hard time finding a spot for him because you could use him as a powerplay specialist. He can run a power play better than still, better than just about anybody in the league. You put him on that half wall. You're going to score some goals. But what do you do with him the rest of the time?

You can't put him in a fourth line role where he's seeing, you know, 10, 11 minutes in night. And it's hard to justify him in the top six, given all the talent around him. Patrick Kane, he's an American icon. And he does have experience that very few of these guys have. but it's hard to slot him into this team. Well, I have him as the 13th, but I think there's actually like I, like I said, I have Jason Robertson on the second line with Eichl and Kachuk.

I think that's a natural place where if Robertson gets off to a slow start, you just flip that right away and Kane could fit great with Eichol and with Brady Kichuk. I think they do a lot of the things that at this point of his career are not his strengths in terms of puck retrievals in terms of some of the physical stuff defending. But I think he can playmake for those guys at an elite level. And I do agree with what Pierre said. of the guys remaining in this league, two, three have as good of a feel for the big moment

and will embrace the spotlight to the degree that Patrick Kane will. And I think you can wear a letter on this team. And that's why I found it so hard to leave him off. Now, I'll tell you this much, is Patrick Kane has his eye on Italy. I guarantee you. He has been in the Olympics and he has come up so close,

you know, in Vancouver, and yet the heartbreak, the disappointment in Sochi. This is a guy who he's, If you probably asked him right now, would he take a gold medal or a Stanley Cup, a fourth Stanley Cup? I think he might deep down want the gold medal more because he's got three Stanley Cups. The one blemish on his resume on the ice is that Olympic, that international performance. And he's played in a bunch of worlds. It means a whole lot to him to put on that USA sweater.

And he's going to be motivated to prove that he can still play at this stage so that they're still thinking about him next year when he's 37 years old. Yeah. I think the fundamental question with Team USA is basically what Pierre said, right? It's are you bringing the 23 best players or are you trying to build the best 23-man team? And the way that I viewed it was the USA is way more skilled than they've ever been. But they're still not as skilled as Canada. And so if they want to try to do a roster that is just the 23 most skilled players, the 13 most skilled forwards, whatever that might be,

you're going to be diet Canada. And you're going to try to beat Canada at the way Canada is built. Or the U.S. can lean into the things that they are better than Canada. I like the United States blue line better than Canada's. I love the United States goaltending compared to Canada. I would double down into that and build a team that can shut down Canada. I watched Dylan Larkin go stride for stride with Connor McDavid last night and really keep him in check through that game. I don't see any reason why Dylan Larkin can't be that kind of player against Connor McDavid at the international level.

I look at guys like Brock Nelson and Vincent Trocheck and think those are guys that I would want on my team at any stage. in the Stanley Cup final, in the four nations, international competition, to do a job and know they're going to do it well. And by the way, they're both 70 point guys too. They're not sacrificing. You got to be a little careful with this, because this is with the team USA philosophy going to the World Cup in 2016, where John Tortorella wanted a John Torterle-type team.

And they left, they left like the Phil Kessels of the world off, and they couldn't score. They didn't have Austin Matthews and Jack Eichael. I'm just saying, sometimes talent just wins out. And I bristle at the idea that these guys can't, accept smaller roles or different roles for a week and a half. Like I think any one of those guys, if you told Austin Matthews, you're going to be our shutdown guy and our penalty killer,

he'd be like, hell yeah, let's go do it. Like I think you can convince these guys to play a style that they're not used to playing. Of course you can. But I'm saying why do you want to tax them in that way when you don't have to when you have guys that can specialize in that, right? And the difference to me between the U.S.As of old that would have this mentality and this is that they didn't have this level of skill at the top. Sometimes you get too cute with this roster building stuff, though, and you wind up screwing yourself.

That's all I'm saying is sometimes talent wins out. Let's move on to the blue line here. Las has Kyle Connor, Jake Gensel, and Clayton Keller in the bottom six, but my team's too cute is what we're saying. My team's going to score a crap done. Just to clarify. Just to clarify. I have the cute team here. Just go win eight to seven every game.

It'll be more fun that way for us. Yeah, that works out. Let's look at the blue line. It works out great on the blue line where both Canada and the U.S. have so many. True great right side shots, which is always the hardest thing to find are right side defensemen. Not an issue for these teams. I've got top pair. I got Quinn Hughes with Adam Fox, Jacob Slavin with Charlie McAvoy, and Jake Sanderson with Brock Faber.

My extra I'm struggling with is Seth Jones, Thomas Harley, Zach Worensky, John Carlson. I was leaning Worensky, but I think, you know, listening to you and Pierre talk, I think you're probably right about Seth Jones, is that he does carry a lot of weight with the American team. He's versatile. he's a lot better than people think he is. People look at the contract and not the player. Seth Jones has been really good for the last two years, and I could see him being on that team.

Yeah, we have extremely similar blue lines. We just have different pairings. I have Hughes McAvoy, Sanderson, Fox, Slave and Faber. And I didn't put Jones on my initial, but I've talked myself into it too, just with talking to Pierre, and some conversations that have people run in my preview rosters by them before this episode. I put Haniff in there.

I think I'd swap him for Jones. we just have different, different combinations there. Like, I like the idea of getting guys like Thomas Harley in there because you do need to start thinking about, like Pierre said, we're doing this every two years now. And it's not like a rebuild, but you have to start like, you know, getting young guys in that are going to be lynch pins on your team for a long time to come. So I like the idea of getting a young guy like Thomas Harley out there, but it's a tough lineup to crack.

Also, a lot of the guys we have are really young. Like Charlie McAvoy was 26 years old and he's one of the older blue liners on this list here. Quinn Hughes, Jake Sanderson, you know, Brock Faber, these are young guys. These are going to be around for a decade. And they are going to be the standard bears. So I think the USA Blue Line should be the best Blue Line in the tournament. Sweden always has something to say about that. They always have a pretty good collection of D.

But on the older side at this point. And so I really like the Americans blue line. And I love the Americans goal less. Who's your snub? Who's your goalie snub? Because there's four guys. There's four elite goaltenders out here. Who's your snub?

I left off Demko. and I think it's probably because he's hurt right now. And I took the same approach with Dowdy, spoiler alert, that I just didn't think you can put a guy who's hurt, pencil them in like that. I guess legally obviously you can within the rules. But I went with the healthy guys and I maybe a cop out. I went Hellebuck Ottinger Swayman.

I went Hella Buck Ottinger, Demko, and I had Swamen as my guy. Because I just, again. Because you hate Swamen. I don't hate Jeremy Swamen. I like Jeremy Swamen. I like the confidence of it Jeremy Swamen. But he has improved it to me the way those other guys have. on big stages.

And I mean, it's Hellobach Ottinger, and it's a pretty big drop off after those two to Demko and Swainman in my mind. Like Demko or Swamen, neither of them is getting in the net. Let's be honest here. They're going along for the ride. They're in the Cory Crawford role at the World Cup where it's like, we're giving you the nod. Hey, we like you. You get to be on our team, but you ain't playing. It's Hella Buck and Ottinger all the way.

Well, they have a big job at this tournament because at some point they are going to have to slow down team Canada, which should still be an absolute death star of a roster. In my opinion, they have the two best players in the world, and they should be centering their top two lines in Colorado, McDavid and Nathan McKinnon. What do you got for your Team Canada roster? I'm just looking at my team. I'm just looking down in the middle.

I got McDavid, McKinning, Cosby, and Braden Point. I mean, that's just absurd. Like, that is absolutely the, maybe the best center, a group of centers you could possibly have. But here's my lineup. I got Hyman, McDavid, and Mitch Marlon. on the top line. I got Matt Barzell with McKinnon and Sam Reinhardt. I got Carter Verhege, Sidney Crosby, and Connor Bedard on the right wing with Canada. He's played a wing before in the

NHL and he succeeded. And on the fourth line, I got Travis Kineckney, Braden Point, and Mark Stone with Brad Marchand and Robert Thomas as my extras. The guys I couldn't find room for were Alexi Lefrenier, Nick Suzuki, Ryan Eugene Hopkins, and about 150 other guys. I like that, that collection, quite a bit. And Mark Stone is the guy that I, when I saw him on your roster, went, oh, crap, I don't have Mark Stone in mine. So I probably need to find a spot for Mark Stone on my roster here. I've got Brad Marchand with McDavid and Reinhart. I think I have Marchand too high. But isn't, wasn't he one of the ones already named? I think I psyched myself out with that as he's already in there. He's going to be on the team. I just, I couldn't find, I couldn't justify him being in the top 12 the way he's, he might, doesn't look like himself this year. Yeah, he was in their initial six. So I think I forced him a little too high in the lineup. If I can rework this a little bit, I'd probably bump him either probably to like the 13th forward and then find a spot for Mark Stone in here. But as I have it, Marshaan McDavid, Reinhardt, I have Crosby on the wing with McKinnon and Hyman.

I think that line can be like a super do it all line. They're obviously going to score, but I think they can check it an elite level. They can play a heavy game. I went with Beau Horvatt with Pointe and Marner again leaning into some of these roles. Maybe Horvats the guy that gets cut ultimately from this roster for Mark Stone. And then I went Brandon Hagel, who I think is off to an amazing start. I love him in a fourth-line role of this tournament. He can do anything.

He can play top-line role. He can play grinder role. He can kill penalties. He is a really good choice. Yeah. So I went Hagle, Suzuki and Robert Thomas. I put in parentheses next to Thomas. I don't know if you looked at this, Wilson, because it sounds like there is some thought that

there's a big Tom Wilson. voice out there. Yeah, they're like laying the groundwork for Tom Wilson to make this team, which is, you know, he's a good player, but you look at the guys that we're leaving off here. And I'm not sure Tom Wilson's making that cut for me. I think it's a direct response to the two kichucks on the United States side. If you have two kichucks, your opponent goes, crap, what are we going to do to counter that? And I think the only answer Canada really has in that vein is Tom Wilson. I think it's four years too late for me to be doing that. But he is off to a nice start. And so I guess we can't rule it out. I had Badaard as the 13th going in. I guess if I'm reworking this, I'm probably plugging Stone in to the lineup. Horvatt gets dropped and then we keep Baderd there. Let's talk Baderd briefly because, you know, in theory, you know, he probably doesn't, he's not,

if you look at him, he might not be one of the top 12 guys, you would think, but, you know, I've been watching him this year, obviously every game. I'm a Chicago-based guy. He's a different player this year. His numbers aren't quite there. He's about a point of game, but the goals haven't really been coming.

He's only got three goals. He looks like a completely different player. He's, you know, last year, all the talk was about his plus minus. He's basically an even player this year. And he's the big reason why. He is controlling the puck. He is so much more aggressive in the offensive zone. He's bolder.

He's making more plays. He needs to shoot more. He's got one of the best shots in the league. He needs to use it more. But, you know, he's backtracking. He's hustling. He's working in the corners. This is already, you know, he's, this is next year might be the breakout year.

It might be a third year thing the way Jack Hughes was before he was a hundred-something point guy. but we're seeing Connor Bedard become a superstar before our eyes. And to me, it's a no-brainer to have him on like Crosby's wing. I mean, Connor Bred idolizes Sidney Crosby. To have them play together besides just being really cool, you're going to have Connor Baderd playing like his hairs on fire, trying to like keep up and impress Sydney Crosby. Yeah, and this is where I really agree with what you said about you want to get some young guys worked in for the future.

Connor Bidard is going to be the standard bearer for Team Canada six, eight years from now. You don't want him to be like go-eyed. You don't want him to be the deer in headlights in Italy. You want him to be a, have a little bit of experience with that. Absolutely. So I do like his inclusion. I didn't know exactly where to put him with some guys that are a little more season, some guys that have a little more, like I said, natural PK role.

But I want him on the roster. And I think they'll find a place for him and some time for him to play. Again, we're similar on D, but a couple of key differences. So I'll start with this one. I went with the Colorado, Taves McCar pair as Canada's top pair for familiarity. I think Taves is good enough to deserve that spot and someone's going to play with Kail McCar there. It might as well be the guy he has the most familiarity with.

Then I went with Josh Morrissey and Noah Dobson. I said Theodore Bouchard, but if Drew Doughty is going to make this team, then I guess he takes Bouchard spot there or maybe bumps Bouchard to the 7th D, which is good because 7th D. The 7th D.D. was what I really struggled with for Canada. So I guess we'll say Theodore Doughty and Bouchard, the 7th D.

I'm a big Devon Taves guy, and I agree with it is kind of nice have a ready-made pairing, but that's not what this is about, right? This is about kind of put some new guys together. So I have Morrissey McCar as my top pair. Theodore Bouchard is my second pair. And I have Dowdy in there. Besides the fact that he's a Canadian icon, he was fan-freaking-tastic last year.

Like he was, I think it might have been on my Norris ballot or he was like in the discussion. Just an absolute throwback renaissance year for him. And I want to see him on the big stage again because that's a guy who steps up on the big stage, whether it was, you know, Stanley Cup runs or in the Olympics, I want Doughty on that team. And that's, so I lost Taves. I have Dougie Hamilton as my extra, just because I think you could bring a little bit more to the power play if you need that.

If at some point you need someone out there to, to back up McCar, though you got Bouchard there also in Dobson. God, this is a ridiculous team. I wanted to find spots for guys like Taves and Aaron Eckblad and Morgan Riley and Owen Power. There's just so much strength on the right side of this defense. It's really hard to find room for these guys. I don't want guys playing on their offside because it's just.

There's no need for that when you have so much talent on both sides. So, yeah, I got Dowdy Dobson as my third pairing, and I couldn't find a spot for Taves. Yeah, and I think that's perfectly fair. I mean, Morgan Riley is another guy that probably belongs in this conversation that I just couldn't find the spot for him. But it is a very good blue line. I still think I like the Americans blue line a little bit more. But you can't argue with a lot of the elements they have. It's not just the puck movement.

They have a little bit of natural size to their puck moving, especially. Dobson in particular, Doughty's got some jam, certainly plenty of jam to him if he makes this lineup. So it is a very good Canada blue line. I really hope we get Doughty. I want to see him on that big stage again because it was really fun watching him play last year and looking like Drew Doughty. We especially with defense and we've seen so many great players just kind of like linger in the league and fade slowly before our eyes. And it was really cool to see Drew Doughty look like Drew Doughty at his age. I want to see him on that stage again because the Kings are.

aren't going to get them there. The big question for Canada, and it's been visible from a mile away, is in goal. And I think we have a similar makeup to our Canadian goaltending. You've got one name that I do not have. We both have Stuart Skinner on there as the starter. We both have in some capacity, Jordan Bennington. You've got Samuel Montembow on there. I do. I've got Eton Hill. I've got Montembow as my number two right now. I think by the time this tournament comes around, he's going to be contending with Skinner for that top spot. This guy's legit. I do not have much faith in Jordan Bennington.

I don't really want him on my team. Aden Hill, I have Bennington as my number three, and Aden Hill is the snub. I could go either way on that. Again, it's not going to matter in a tournament this short. Your number three goalie is not going to play unless something tragically bad happens. So we're not worrying about that. I got Skinner and Montembow, and I think it's an open competition right now. This is a complete opposite.

Yeah, this is a complete opposite of Hella Buck Ottinger Demko-Swain, where you have four number ones. You have no number ones here. Stuart Skinner had a nice run last year. He's not the reason the Edmonton Oilers made it to the Stanley Cup final, though. Stuart Skinner is not an elite goalie. He's a good goalie. And there's still time for Sam Montenbo to show that maybe he should be the guy.

That's where we're at with Canadian goaltending, is Sam Montembo might be the guy. All right, well, there's the guy who's going to have a way better informed take on this, then we will. So let's take a quick break. We'll come back with Jesse Granger and we'll let him settle the Team Canada goalie question. All right, we are back now with Jesse Granger, or our Granger thing segment presented by BetMGM. And Jesse, we're talking today about Team Canada's goalie situation for the four nations. And obviously, the Americans have the dream situation here because I think one of the four goalies that they cut, whether it be Connor

Hallibuck, Jake Otton, or Jeremy Swimmer, Thatcher, Demko, probably would have been Canada's number one goalie. Instead, Canada's got to find somebody else. Las and I in our projections both have Stuart Skinner and Jordan Bennington on the team. Laz has Sam Montenbo as his number two goalie, actually, in that rotation. And I've got Aidan Hill as my number three. But it's a tough situation to sort through here. How would you kind of parse this as Team Canada? Yeah, it is. It's really weird. The country that like when you go through the all-time goalies list, it's nothing but Canadians at the top suddenly haven't produced a elite goalie in a very long time. And they do have some young ones on the way.

But for right now, for this being, especially with the focus on this being the first best on best tournament in forever, it is shockingly thin in net for the Canadians. I personally, if I was picking a goalie for this tournament for Canada, I would probably go with Jordan Bittington just because I think he's proven it on the big stage. and I think he's in the best form of all of them right now. Like the only other person you could argue is better form is Sam Montembo. And he has played really well behind less than great defense in Montreal. I thought last year his underlying numbers were really good.

He's at a good start to this year. The games that I've watched, Montreal, he's looked very good. But he's never really done it on the big stage. Like you don't know how he's going to play in the playoffs with the pressure of representing your country. He has done it. he's played well on the international stage for Canada, but it hasn't been in a stage like this. It's been in tournaments that people aren't paying as much attention to. They aren't best on best. They're like the world championships where kind of the leftover guys that didn't make the playoffs go.

So he has played for Team Canada, but not as good. I would go with Bittington. The thing between Aiden Hill and Stuart Skinner is that's the debate for me is between those two. They're very similar goalies. They're big, blocking style goalies that move pretty well for their size. they don't react a ton to shots. It's more just cutting off angles using their size, and they're both not off to great starts. They both play behind teams that are contenders that are expected to be good this year, and neither of them has played particularly well to start the year.

I think they're still playing a time for them to turn it around. And I think that honestly, because of their size and because of their pedigree, their two last goalies to represent the Western Conference in the Stanley Cup final, if one of those two were to get on a heater between now and what, December 2nd, when they have to announce these rosters, I wouldn't be surprised if one of those two, if they went on a heater, would just jump to be the number one guy,

like just be the starter in Canada. But right now, they're making it tough because neither is playing well. I think if everything were to go right for Canada, one of those two goes on a heater and they're the guy. How does Canada's goalie situation stack up with the two European teams, with Sweden and Finland here? Is Canada the worst?

Are they number four here? Yes. I think they're the pretty clear number four. Finland, it's easy. They don't even have to debate anything. UCSaros is the goalie. He's awesome. And Uco Peko Lukonin in Buffalo is a good goalie.

I like him. He's nowhere near on the level of UCSaurus. That is his net. I would expect UPL to get a game or two in the tournament. But when things come down to knockout stage, like UCSaros is the guy. They've also got like a handful of guys battling for that third spot, Justice Anunin in Colorado,

Eunice Corpus Sallow, Kevin Lankin. But it's pretty much U.C. Saros is net in Finland. Sweden, it's a little more interesting, and it's funny because it's Linus Olmark who's involved in this. They have two guys who you could argue it's like a 50-50 split. Maybe Olmark and Jacob Markstrom could get a hug going like Olmark had with Swamen in Boston, but those two are the clear top two, but it's not clear who you would pick between those two. If you had a knockout stage game for Sweden, both Jacob Markstrom and Linus Olmark are on new teams to start the season. And they're both playing pretty well. I know Lina

Olmark's numbers haven't, actually both of them. Their numbers aren't great. But when I've watched them, they've both looked really good. I expect those two to both play for Sweden. But yeah, if you're Canada, I think you would love to have an option like Markstrom, Olmark, UC Soros, and they just don't right now. All right. So that's our four nations thoughts on USA and Canada.

Jesse, while we have you here, we got to get some Vegas insight here from you. And we're nine, ten games in for most teams, eight to ten games for most. teams. Quiet start from some of the big heavy hitters scoring wise in the league. Connor McDavid certainly is not off to the goal scoring start that I think a lot of people would have wanted to see from him. Vegas reacting to this at all? Is anybody out there going to be able to win big by sneaking a McDavid, Art Ross bet in there under the wire? Yeah, unfortunately not. Because that all sounds so tempting to us, the sports books know that. And they're like, you know what? We feel the same way. Yeah, if you thought Connor McDavid was going to be 10 to 1 to win,

You'll be disappointed to know he is minus 125. You still will not even win your money back. You will win less than you bet on Connor McDavid to win the art ross, even though he hasn't scored much. And like, it's crazy because Nikita Kuturav, who probably would be second or third on most people's list going into the season. Like before we have any games, you would think Kuturav is right there with McDavid. And he's off to a very good start.

I think he's second in the league and goals, something like that. And he's still second behind McDavid on these odds at plus 300. not really close to where McDavid's numbers are. So that just shows you the type of respect that the odds and the betting market has for Connor McDavid. It's a long season. And we expect him to go on one of these runs where he scores like four points every single game for a month and runs away with it, which would probably not surprise anyone.

Where's a guy like Carill Caprizov? I think he's one of the few guys that maybe can sneak in there and play at that level for long enough that he could be in that race. Yeah, he's obviously off to a hot start. He's at plus 2,500. So pretty decent odds, 25 to 1 if you want to go for a guy that obviously has the scoring talent. Like he's on a team where he's the guy. He's going to be fed the puck on the power play all season long and he's off to a hot start.

So yeah, 25 to 1 for Capri So some other guys, Nathan McKinnon's at four and a half to one right now. And our Timmy Panarin is at 7 to 1. He's obviously off to a good start for the Rangers. I do like that for our parlance, our purpose, versus Connor McDavid having 10 points in nine games is a slow start by his standards. He's like 35th in the league in scoring right now. There's like there's dozens of guys ahead of it. No, like I said it.

I agree. I just, I was thinking about it as Jesse talked and I was like, I just said a guy who's on pace for like 85 points. It was like a decade ago that Jamie Ben won the scoring title with 89 points. It's incredible how different the league is now. We expect there to be five, six, seven, eight, nine guys with 100 points every year again. It's not quite the 80s, but we're kind of getting a little 80s.

Jesse, if I asked you for one guy on that list who Vegas is giving a little bit of an edge on or a little bit of a sleeper look to, does anybody jump out? Like, you know, Leon Dry Settles at the same scoring rate as McDavid. What do they have him at? Yeah, I mean, I personally, I wouldn't go with the dry sidle. I think Kucharov, even though it's only three to one, like if you're going to bet on one of the favorites, Kuturov is can put up 100 points like no problem. You have no issues there. And he's off to the good start. Like unlike McDavid, dry-sidal, he's obviously not off to a slow start, but we're holding those guys to a really high standard. And I like what Mark said with Caprisoff. I think Caprisov's a good value all the way down to 25 to 1.

And I personally like Coucherab a lot. All right. So there's your headline for all you aggregators out there, the athletic hockey show, Connor McDavid, Cook. I mean, if there were no odds and we were betting who's going to win it, Jimmy Conner McDavid all day. Walter McDavid, of course. As long as they link to the show, that's fine with me.

That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the F. Buttackey show. Please leave us a five-star rating and review if you're an aggregator enjoying the show. Sean Gentilly, Sean McIndoo, and Frankie Carrado will have you covered on Wednesday. We'll talk to you soon.