The Athletic Hockey Show - Who we want in the playoffs vs. who we’re gonna get

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Laz and guest cohost Jesse Granger break down the wild card races in both conferences, picking which teams they want to make the playoffs and which ones will actually make it. Before that, the guys discuss the drawbacks of a potential 84-game NHL schedule and why the almost universally disliked current playoff format isn’t going anywhere. Plus, a look at Jesse’s goaltending tandem power rankings and this offseason’s lackluster free agent goalie crop to close the show.Hosts: Mark Lazerus and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Welcome to the Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, presented by E-Trade from Morgan Stanley. I'm Mark Lazarus. Max Boltman is on assignment, and I got good news and I got bad news. The bad news is we will not be having our usual Granger zone segment, which means we won't be having our usual Granger zone drop in.

But the good news is that's because Jesse's here the whole show. Jesse Granger, it was 80 degrees here in Chicago land the other day, and I had to scrape ice off my car this morning. We call it fall spring. Do you have a fall spring in Vegas? You know what? We have had some pretty crazy weather. Not quite snow on anything.

Although there are mountains very close. I'm looking at my window at the mountain covered in snow right now. So we did get snow up on the mountain for all the skiers. But yeah, the weather has been kind of swinging crazy back and forth. Probably not as drastic as yours, though. Look at this guy. Looking out the window, he's seen mountains. I look at the window, I can see like the BP oil refinery probably.

So is this the worst week of the year to be an. actual Vegas resident. I'm just picturing all the dude bros descending en masse for the NCAA tournament weekend, which I know, you know, sports betting is a lot more available than it used to be. But like, I can only picture Vegas right now and just the polo shirts just walking around everywhere. It's a party. Yeah. Vegas is almost like reinvented itself as like, okay, you can gamble everywhere. So we'll just be the party place, which is it's kind of always been, but I feel like they've really leaned into that. And yeah, I've said for a long time, I think it's better to be in a Vegas sports book for March Madness than it is to be at the actual games. You get all the games at once. I absolutely

love March Madness here in Vegas. It's going to be fun. I was picturing you like cowering in your house for the day. I embrace it. That's probably for the best. I've always wanted to go for that. I've been there for the Stanley Cup playoffs and just having multiple games on at once. It's just You sit there like Caesars or Mirage, one of the big sports books and just while the day away watching TV, it's the best. It's great. All right. Well, on today's show, we're going to take a look at all the wild card races on both sides, the east and the west. And we're going to determine who we want to see make the playoffs and who we're going to end up getting stuck with instead.

We're also going to dive into Jesse's goalie tandem's rankings and free agency. And let me tell you, the state of Pennsylvania is having a tough time. But first, you know, we usually have one of our insiders, Chris Johnson or Pierre LeBrund open the show, but they're stalking NHL executives in Palm Beach right now, which is the worst assignment in the world. I know these guys love it. I have covered GM's meetings, and you literally sit there like you're at the Pelagio in Vegas or something like that. You're in a hallway. There's no chairs.

You will stand there for six hours just stooging around, hoping to see one of these guys walk out to go to the bathroom so you can kind of tackle them and ask them a question. I remember Stan Bowman once went out a back door. and me and Chris Cook of the Chicago Tribune literally ran out into the parking lot and chased him down to his car and got him as he was getting into his car just to get a couple of non-answers about who was going to be the salary cap casualty that summer.

I mean, I hate covering GM's meetings, but these guys love it. They get all kinds of good stuff out of it. Pierre had a very distressing story to me about the NHL expanding to 84 games starting the season in September, still ending in late June, because Jesse, if there's one complaint I hear all the time,

it's that the NHL regular season isn't long enough. Is this just a disaster waiting to happen? Yes. I mean, I saw a graphic the other day that showed like it was a, it showed all of the major sports and their seasons. And it had like a bar showing like when they started, when they stopped. And the first thing that stood out was,

wow, the NHL season takes way longer than pretty much every other sport. Like even baseball doesn't take that long. And they play 16 trillion games. I don't see. I mean, I get it. I get the wanting to space it out, not as many back to backs, not as many three games in four nights. I get that. But I just, I think the biggest problem with hockey, the whole sport of hockey, to me, the biggest problem is the games don't mean enough.

And that's why, like, football to me, that is why football is king in America is the games mean more in football. and adding games to the regular season, adding a play-in round to the playoffs, all of these things that are being talked about to me. Every single one of them diminishes the meaning of a regular season game, which is already so minuscule and so tiny, like they need to find ways to make these games more important, not less important, is my opinion on the subject. I'll tell you, the best regular season I ever covered was the lockout season in 2013.

48 games in 99 days, just this mad, wild dash to the playoffs. That's obviously not enough games. You can't do that. But I think somewhere like 68 or 70 would probably be the right number where you're still making a lot of money and you have a lot of home dates,

but you're also not just killing these guys. The wear and tear on their bodies is so brutal as it is. The thing is we'll never going to get fewer games. Never. No owner is ever going to say, I am willing to give up any amount of home games. It makes such a gate-driven league that you're never going to see it go down.

But now going back to 84, which it was 84 when I was a kid, it was 84 for a few years there. I love the idea of a shorter preseason, but the preseason is kind of nebulous anyway. You have teams like I think it's Edmonton plays like eight preseason games every year. And you've got some teams that play four. So shrinking the preseason doesn't really mean a whole lot when there's not a set number there anyway. Yeah, I agree. Vegas plays extra too because they like to do like the, we'll go up to Utah and play before Utah had a team. stuff like that. So yeah, I mean, I'll always trade, I'll say this. Like, I'll always trade a

preseason game for a real game. Real hockey is better than fake hockey and preseason hockey is horrible. So yes, I'll take that trade off. But again, like I said, I just think it's not even the, it's not even the time it takes. It's not even like, I feel like the gate argument is so short-sighted. Like, yes, they make less money because technically at the very beginning because they'll sell less tickets, but NFL owners only get eight home games. Are they hurting for money right now? Do you think NHL owners would like to make the money that NFL owners are making? Because they're doing just fine with eight regular season games. And I just, that's the reason. Why is football better? I don't think football is more entertaining sport. I think football is better

because when your team loses a game on Sunday, it is a massive deal. It ruins your entire week. in the NHL, it's like, ah, we, we lost five in a row. Then it starts, like, once you get into like a five game losing streak, then it's like, okay, this might actually be problematic. The Detroit Red Wings just lost six games in a row, and they're still basically right where they are in the wild card race. They just, I feel like, yes, you may make a few extra bucks early on because you lost some gate, but in the end, the sport will be more popular.

And that you make money on TV. That's how you make the big bucks. Is TV ratings not gate? Yes, right now their main thing is gate because they don't do well on the TV ratings. Like if they did better on the TV ratings, then the gate wouldn't be that big of a deal. I just, I think it's short-sighted to make these regular season games less important. And I think adding games does that. And I think that making a play-in round that they've talked about too, that was another thing that Pierre mentioned in his piece, is adding another round so you can get another four teams in the playoffs.

And yes, that keeps more fan bases engaged. But also it, again, makes this regular season completely meaningful. and almost a waste of time. Yeah, I'm a big subscriber in Pierre's idea that the Stanley Cup should be handed out by May 31st every year. I mean, I've covered, you've covered a cup run. I've covered a few cup runs. Late June, you should not be still playing hockey.

It's ridiculous. But now, you know, you're going to add two more regular season games. You have these international breaks, which, you know, and our producer Chris just pointed out, the Four Nations tournament was such a limited tournament and the games mattered so much that that kind of proves your point. But now you're adding these breaks. And this year, this next year, I mean, we're going to have an all-star game and an Olympic break. Like, they might not, it's going to be like the COVID season where they're handing out the cup in August.

I mean, this is, you know, at some point, if you're like, I am pro international breaks, but maybe in the international seasons, you have a shorter regular season. And I know that wreaks havoc with records and, you know, but all kinds of things that you can be talking about. What, which round numbers matter the most if you're playing 70 games. It's like the baseball 154 games where Babe Ruth is. at 60 and then Roger Marys had 162 to get to 61. I get all that. But at some point, you need to think about the health of the players, the health of the league,

the health of the fan base. And it's just, look, I love hockey. I love watching hockey. Well, let's get to the damn playoffs already. And let's not drag this out into mid-June. Yeah, I mean, we all love hockey. But when do we love it the most when the playoffs get here? Like regular season hockey is cool.

But we talk about it all the time. Is there another sport that, transforms the way hockey does when the playoffs get here because the players play differently, because the games mean more. It's like, we could get that all year round, maybe not quite to that extent. But if we made the games more, I just, and I agree with you, the international tournament is going to be awesome. The breaks should be there.

But maybe, like, and Pierre kind of mentioned this in the piece too, maybe skipping the All-Star game during the international years would be a good idea. Yeah. Sorry, Long Island. They got to cancel that thing next year. They may be coming around on that idea quickly. I didn't even realize in my head. I knew that the Islanders were hosting and I knew that there was an Olympic break.

I didn't put the two together. That's the same time, basically. Yes. That's just, that's in addity to me. What do you think about the idea of, you know, this was also in Pierre's piece about the GMs wanting to abandon the idea that every team plays in every building every year. This is how it used to be.

We used to have very heavily loaded divisional schedules. I mean, the St. Louis Blues have not played a game in Chicago get this year. I don't think they do because I think the one game was going to be in Chicago was the Wrigley Field game. So the St. Louis Blues do not play at the United Center this year, which is just kind of baffling to me. I mean, that's an arch rival, a geographical and historical rival, and they're not going to play at the UC. But, you know, we get the Ottawa senators and we get, you know, the Florida Panthers. They went to this, I think it was in the wake of the last lockout,

where they decided every team plays, because everybody wants to see Connor McDavid, right? Connor McDavid should play in every building every year. Of course. Of course, that's how it should be. But at the same time, that means that the San Jose Sharks are playing in every single building every year. And those tickets are harder to sell. And I wonder if the NHL should just abandon this and go to a more unbalanced schedule and just embrace the rivalries, embrace the games that matter the most, and just accept the fact that Sidney Crosby might not be coming near town this year. Yeah, it's tough. I see the merits of both.

Like here in Vegas, I see it like fan bases, like especially Eastern Canadian fan bases, Montreal, Toronto. They send thousands of people down here in Vegas when their team comes. Like I get the wanting to have Connor McAve in your building every year. I get your fan base wanting to go to a road trip to whatever city and they can do it every year. But kind of to continue on the point I was making earlier about making the games more meaningful, the division games are more meaningful. They're more exciting to watch. The players care more about them. That makes the hockey better. I am not against going more towards divisions, divisional games at all. So now I'm going to be a total hypocrite and bring up this.

I'm so sick of the divisional format in the playoffs. And now that's not a GM's decision. That's an owner's decision. That's a board of governor's thing. So that's not going to be something that's discussed. But Gary Bettman is just dead set on keeping the current playoff format, which literally everybody hates. I don't know anybody that's like, yay, this format.

When they switched to it about a decade ago or so, I was all for it. I'm like, yeah, when I was a kid, the Patrick Division semifinals meant something. And you played the same teams. You had to get out of your division. And then you had to get out of your conference, and then you had to win it all. Like, I loved that when I was a kid. I hate it.

I hate it. I hate it. The Blackhawks had to play the wild three straight years. How many times are we going to see Edmonton versus the Kings? Like, let's, we, I'd love to see one through 16. I know that the travel is an issue, but these guys fly real nice. I've been on a charter plane before and they are not hurting.

It'll hurt the media, but it will not hurt the players. I'm all for one through 16 to really. really spread it out, but we're going to get Dallas, Colorado in the first round. That's almost set in stone at this point. And that sucks, man. Because one of those teams is going to lose in the first round and people can be like, oh, what a failure of a season this was when that's not really fair. That's a conference championship level series. That's a Stanley Cup final level series. And we just shouldn't have those in the first round. Yeah, I agree. And I agree with everyone.

And when we talk to the players for like the anonymous player poll, it's, I don't think I've asked one single player that didn't immediately shout one go back to the one versus eight so i think we're all kind of unanimous here to to go a different direction that i haven't talked about on this because i feel like i've talked about this subject a million times but i think that you the thing you brought up about how like the divisional semi-final like the divisional final that used to mean something i think that if you're not going to go to the one versus eight and you you you are set in your ways if you're gary batman and you want this divisional rivalry thing i think they should lean further into it and get rid of the wild card and make it top four and keep them in the division because to me you mentioned like,

oh, the divisional thing meant something. And I was, and you said that. And I was like, you know what? I feel like we don't even get that now because of the wild card like Vegas last season, Vegas was the wild card. They go to Dallas. That's not in the division. I don't, I don't feel like you're escaping your division. I don't even feel like you're getting out of your division because it's always mixed up. You always get teams from the other division in your side of the bracket because of the wild cards. So to me, if you, if you are set in this and you want this, I want rivalries. I want the same teams playing each other every year. You have to get out of your division. I think you should lean even further into it and just go top four in every division.

That's your bracket is your four teams. There is no wild card. It's you are, you have to beat the teams in your division to get out. There's no way to get around it. And right now, the way it's said is all you got to do is finish the one seed and you get the worst team from the other division. You don't even have to play your way out of your division. Yeah, I mean, obviously the argument against that is like the central division is so much better than the Pacific division. The Atlantic is so much better than the Metro right now that you're going to wind up with a good team getting left out. But yeah, you are talking about a fifth place team getting left out. I mean, the whole point of this system is to prevent that from happening when the top five

is so much better than the top four in another division. But, you know, it's like when people want to expand college football or college basketball players, at what point are we expanding for teams that don't deserve to be expanded for? Like, if you're the, if you're the 12th the best team in the league. Should we be changing the rules just to get you into the playoffs? So yeah, I see where you're coming from. I mean, obviously, I don't want that to happen because I'm just tired of the same series every, the same teams meeting every year.

Like, I know that's supposed to foster rivalries. That's how you get Hawks Canucks. That's how you get Avalanche Red Wings back in the day. Islanders Rangers, of course, back when I was a kid. But, man, I'm just, I'm tired of that. I want to see new matchups. That's why it'll never happen, but I'd love to see 116, where it's, That would be wild.

Whereas just doesn't matter what conference, what division, none of that matters. Let's just have a 32 team table, basically. And the top 16 teams get in. And 1 through 16 and 2 through 15, like, let's be radical here. Let's do something radically different in the North American football or North American sporting landscape and just try it. Because everybody hates this, Gary. Everybody. Yeah, just to be clear, I do want the one versus eight.

I am not in favor of the, but I just think that if they're going to go that way, might as well lean into it. But yeah, I, the one versus 16, part of me is excited to see that. Part of me is like a little more old school.

Like I want my Western Conference final, my Eastern Conference final. Once baseball started interleague play, none of this stuff mattered anymore. That was the last bastion of like your division mattering, your conference, your league mattering. Nobody cares anymore.

We live in this global world where I can watch any game, except for the Blackhawks. I can't watch the Blackhawks in Chicago, but you can watch just about any game. And, you know, people are fans of multiple teams. Like, I think it would be kind of cool to have like a Kings, Canadians playoff series. Like, why not? Let's go, let's go all the way. And because back in the, like, the 80s, the conferences didn't even make any geographical sense.

The Campbell and the Wales conference were completely random geographically. So you could have games like that. And it was, I don't know, it was more interesting. We saw like a miniature version of that, the COVID year, right? like coming, the following season when we had the Vegas. Canadian division. Yeah, and it was Vegas, Montreal in one semi. And then it ended up being Tampa Montreal.

So two Eastern teams in the cup final, a little bit of that, but not quite the same. Are you a playing round guy? That's something that we come up with every year. I'm not either. I feel like it's kind of what I was saying about like you're, like I look at the NBA right now. And for some reason,

the Chicago Bulls always make the playing round. And nobody cares because the Chicago Bulls are a trash team. They're terrible. Who needs this? I totally agree. Aside from the thing that I've been yelling at for 15 minutes now of making the regular season games more important, I think that does the opposite. But I also think, yeah, we already let half the teams in. I think some bad teams already get into the playoffs. Like I think we're at a stage in the NHL where there are legitimately bad teams that make the playoffs every year, a couple of them.

and adding more of those seems worthless to me. I don't see a way that some team that just barely gets in is going to win four rounds in a row. And it just those teams are bad. Yeah, I mean, the Kings did it in 2012 when they were the eight seed and they got in. But that team was not a bad eight seed team. Like that was a team that earned its way in and then got hot at the right time.

And Jonathan Quick was amazing and they won the Stanley Cup. Great. We love that. We want to see Cinderella stories like that. But the playing tournament is just, it just drags this thing out. It's like the wild card in baseball. I'm for it.

But it's also really dumb when they had like the one game series and you were deciding 162 game season with one game. Like I just, it's not the way hockey works, right? And I just feel like it's, it does dilute things a little bit. And the argument is always, oh, well, 20 years ago, 16 of 21 teams made it.

Now 16 of 32. We should have a proportional. 16 of 21 was idiotic. Yes. It was ridiculous back then. 16 of 32 is still a lot of teams. Half the teams make the playoffs. That's sufficient.

Just because it was really dumb 20 years ago, doesn't mean it should be pretty dumb now. And the other argument is like it keeps more fan bases engaged longer in the season, but that's why we have the loser point. I don't like that either. I know, right? Things I don't like. But the loser point keeps all these teams in it,

at least on the standings and makes it look like they have a chance. So, yeah, I'm anti-pontest. play in game. I like the 16. I think the one versus eight, 16 playoffs are perfect. Leave them alone. I wonder, you know, the scuttle butt is that Gary Bettman's a couple of years away from retirement and they're planning a transition here. I wonder if the next person comes in and we immediately go to 1-8 and we immediately clean up some of these things that just Gary Bettman loves that nobody else loves, right? If we just immediately get a course correction there when that happens, I'll be curious to see that. If you're the new commissioner wanting to like make your mark and like show

that you're like here like that's the way to do it that's that's that's that's the 100% approval rating like no one is going to be upset at you for that move that's how you become adam silver immediately beloved right we're going to take a quick break when we come back we're going to talk about some of those bad teams trying to make playoffs we're going to look at the eastern and western conference wild card races uh we'll be right back all right we talked about the future the league let's talk about the present and uh man we got some wild card races i don't know if they're good races but they are crowded races, which makes for some compelling drama, if not always the best hockey. Let's start in the East where Ottawa seems to be pulling away a bit.

They've won, I think, six straight. Dylan Cousins has looked great. They're looking like they might even catch Toronto at this point. Like, Ottawa, let's say Ottawa is in. So we've got basically the second wild card spot in both conferences are kind of up for grads right now. And in the East, by points percentage, Montreal has it. They're one point behind the Rangers, but they've got two games in hand.

And this is where things get crazy. You got Detroit, which just lost six straight, but it's two points out. They're right there. Columbus has lost five of six. They can't score any goals anymore, but they're right there. The Rangers, they've been a tire fire for most of the season. They're right there. The Islanders traded Brock Nelson and have been written off a half dozen times.

They're right there. The Boston Bruins just had a fire sale. They're right there. I mean, my God, the penguins were talking about catching in Chicago for the second best lottery odds like two weeks ago. And now they're right there. in shouting distance. Who is it you want to see? Before we decide who's going to get in, who do you want to see get that second wildcard spot? Yeah, this is, this is going to be fun. First, I want to start with the bed MGM odds just so we can kind of get a lay of like where

the money's going, where the perception is. So like you mentioned, Ottawa is kind of running away with that top wildcard spot. They're minus 5,000 to make the playoffs. That suggests. Wow. That's minus. I still, I'm not even sure I would go that far, but all right. $500 bet, Winsie 10 bucks. All right. So of the teams vying for that second wildcard spot, the Rangers are currently the favorites at plus 135. So just a little more than even money that they're going to make the playoffs.

Right behind them is Montreal at plus 275. Then you've got Columbus at plus 340. And then you've got the Islanders at plus 500. The Red Wings are plus 750. and the Bruins are plus 1,500, 15 to 1. So the Bruins are quite a ways down there, according to the odds. The easy answer for who we want to make the playoffs is the Columbus Blue Jackets, because it's a great story for all the reasons we've talked about all year,

and they're fun to watch. I know they haven't been able to score lately, but that is a high-flying team that they don't check as well as they score. They kind of just go out there and try to outscore you. They're fun to watch. In terms of which of these teams, can give the one seed the biggest problem, though, because that's like, Columbus is a fun story, but then when they get to the playoffs and they have to play top seed, it's like,

but it won't be fun to watch them get swept. So, to me, top seed is the Washington Capitals who nobody believes in. That's true. But to me, the team, like, I want the team that I think Washington is the most nervous about. Like, who does Washington not want to play of these? And to me, that's the Rangers because of Igor Shisterkin. Like, I think Igor Shastirken can steal a series. So I, and this is the goalie guy and me always coming through.

Like I just think that I just think that the Rangers would be, even though that team's been a tire fire and it's like a mess and they like it, everything has gone wrong for them this season. It doesn't feel like the type of team that can make a Cinderella run. But I just think in net you've got a stud like that. You can make it a series. So to me, my preferred team would be the Rangers. What about you?

I'm going to get, I'm guessing you're going to. I am shocked that you said that. I am so sick of the Rangers and the Islanders and the Bruins. I want all these teams to get the hell out of the way and let some new blood in there. I mean, Columbus is the best story by far. Like Ottawa pulling away is kind of ruined this a little bit. Like good for Ottawa. And Ottawa is one of those teams that I probably would have been pulling for just because that's a beleaguered fan base that has been through a lot.

And it would be really cool to see them, you know, take that next step, which they finally seem to be. Columbus is the easy answer. I kind of want to see Detroit in there. I want to be in Little Caesar's Arena during a playoff. game. I think that has the potential to be just an unbelievable environment. We all know that Detroit's like the sleeping giants in terms of the fan base. They're just kind of biding their time, waiting for the Izer plan to come to fruition, which it might not ever happen at this point. But I feel like that building, that building is basically the bell, it's a bell center clone where it's built

very vertically. You know, it's not wide like the United Center in some of these new arenas like Vegas. It's just you're right on top of the ice. And I feel that fan base, after a lot of, all these years of waiting, that first playoff game in there is going to be incredible. And I want Detroit to get that. I want that energy in the playoffs. Like the Rangers making the playoffs right now, you know, whatever. They're always in the playoffs and they have no chance of winning the cup this year. So whatever.

The Islanders, obviously, I grew up in Islanders fan. So it's always fun for me to see Islanders piss everybody off by just existing. But I'm kind of sick of watching Islanders in the playoffs too. They had those two final four runs. They had a chance. their time's kind of over. Let's see some new blood in here. So if it's Columbus, fantastic. That's what I want to see the most. But, God, Columbus would have been shut out back to back by the Rangers and by Vegas.

Three of their last five games, they were shut up by Florida last week, too. Like, they're coming crashing down to earth and it's kind of hard to watch. I really want them to come through. I think that fan base deserves it. That is such an underrated fan base. Every time I've been in Columbus over the last 13 years, it's a good building with a hot crowd. People care in Columbus. I know they have this reputation. but people care in Columbus.

That's a good fan base. And with everything that organization has been through since Johnny Godreau, I think it would just be an incredible story. But I kind of mean Detroit. You've sold me on the energy in the buildings. I totally agree with Columbus and Detroit both for different, totally different reasons. I just want fresh blood. I want fresh blood for the viewers at home.

I want fresh blood. I want these excited fan bases. You know, Rangers fans are not going to be excited about watching the Rangers in the playoffs this year. They know what this team is. They know that it would take Chesterkin just being God tier for eight straight weeks for them to win a Stanley Cup. So, like, they'll be excited as to playoff. Sure. But Detroit in the playoffs for the first time since I think the 1800s, that place would be going nuts.

Canadian Tires Center out in the middle of nowhere in Canada, Canada, people are going to be going nuts. In Columbus, people would be going nuts. And that's what I want. I want excitement. Don't get wrong. Hey, Montreal gets in. I will never complain about the HABS being in the playoffs. That's always good for hockey.

So, like, to me, it's just anybody but the Rangers, Islanders, Bruins, penguins. Get some new blood in there. That's what I want. You've totally sold me. And I totally agree. Detroit, Montreal, Columbus would definitely be the three, like, the energy is different in the building. The fans are more excited. Also, Detroit plays fun hockey.

Like, they're not quite as high scoring as Columbus, but they've got young players that we haven't seen in the playoffs. Like, most side are like, I want to see what he does when the playout. Like, yeah, I totally agree with you. I've been sold. I've changed my mind. I want Zach Werensky to get that, that kind of stage too, right? Like, he's,

he has been so good this year. And you got a taste of it at the Four Nations where people like, oh, look at this guy. I'd love for him to get like a full series of showing everybody just how he is truly. He's in, it's Quinn Hughes, it's Cala McCarr,

and it's Zach Warensky. Like, that's a holy triumvirate now. That's not just those two guys. So I'd like to see that. All right, well, let's go to the West, which is a little less exciting, but it might wind up being a little tighter even. You know, Vancouver lost a tough one to Utah last night,

but they're clinging to that second wild card spot. The Blues, the St. Louis Blues just hanging around, man. They're right, I think they're right tied with them, but they played one more game. Calgary's a hair ahead of Vancouver by points percentage, so technically they're the team to beat right now. In Utah, the Utah-utons are right there. All right, you go first.

Those teams, who do you want to see make it? All right. Well, first, let's go with the odds. Vancouver leading the way, they're plus 150. So just a little bit above even money to bet Vancouver. They are the favorites right now. Right behind them is St. Louis at plus 240. The flames, almost the same, just a slightly below St. Louis at plus 280. And then Utah is plus 400. So those odds are closer than the east. That is a tight race. Yes, much closer. Who do I want to get in? Utah for all the reasons. you just mentioned. The excitement in the building. I went up to Salt Lake when the Golden Knights played up there. It was a fun building. It was packed. It was loud. I'm actually going up there

at the end of this week. I'm going to meet the Tampa Bay Lightning up there and get to see that again. And now they're in the playoff chase. So I'm even more excited to see the energy in that building. And then the other thing is Calgary is always fun. And I just, I love the Dustin Wolf's story. He's having one of the best rookie seasons a goal he's had in a very long time. I think it'd be really fun to watch him. I remember the Calgary Dallas series. It's been three or four years now. It was like Jake Ottinger's like stepping out, like coming out moment like, oh my God, this guy's legit. And Dallas actually ended up losing that series in seven games. But Jake Ottinger was incredible. And it kind of showed us all like, okay, this guy's going to be one of the

top guys for the next 10 years. And I just feel like I'd like to see that moment for Dustin Wolfe. So part of me wants Calgary, but Utah for the energy would be a lot of fun. I think Vancouver is going to wind up it like Elias Pedersen is starting to look like himself again and like I'm watching them like all right I think they're starting to figure it out but for me from a strictly you know entertainment standpoint it's always fun when Vancouver screws up right like that that market is so insane that like Vancouver missing the playoffs with all the expectations they had coming in and then all the fiasco with J.T. Miller and Pedersen I kind of want to see Vancouver miss because the other teams are more interesting than me yeah I was I was almost embarrassed to admit this I was kind of surprised

is to see the blues haven't made the playoffs the last couple of years because I feel like they're just one of those teams. They're just always there. They're always in the bottom half, but they're there and they're just a team that's going to lose in the first round. They're kind of like the Minnesota wild to me. They're just kind of always around. But they're kind of an out of nowhere story this year too because I do want to see the offer sheets rewarded. I want to see more teams copy that. So St. Louis gets in after the Holloway and Broberg. I'd love to see more teams take that tack. so I'm kind of curious there.

Utah, I'm conflicted on. I think it would be a great story, but I'm a big coyotes guy. Like, I spent a lot of time in Arizona over the years. That is such a hardened fan base of coyotes fans. And I think it would be really difficult on them to watch this team that just took their franchise and immediately started spending money

because they had a real owner. And they're in the playoffs and all those guys that you help develop and they're in, I think that would be a tough pill to swallow. Like, when I was a kid, the Islanders were always on the verge of being moved. And I used to have this conversation with my dad every year. If the Islanders moved to Kansas City, if the Islanders moved to Portland,

the Islanders moved to Houston, are we still Islanders fans? Like, those are our players. And my dad would always be like, hell no, we're not watching those guys, but I was always torn on it. And again, in this age where you can watch any team, there's no reason that if you're a coyotes fan,

you can't be rooting for Utah and rooting for your guys. But I don't think it's that simple. No. I don't want, I feel like coyotes fans would really feel bad. if Utah got hot. So I'm going to go with Calgary here. I agree. Dustin Wolf is a great story.

It's an awesome hockey town. I hate that arena more than life itself. Like, if I got sent to cover a playoff series in Calgary, I'd probably start crying on the spot because that press box scares the living crap out of me. I'm reading for it. I want to go to Calgary.

It's one of only two. There are only two NHL cities I haven't been to, and Calgary is one of them. And I got to make it to the Saddle Dome before they tear it down. So I'm, I'm biggest to play Calgary, actually. I think my numbers I've been, I've covered games in 40 NHL rings because I've covered a bunch of defunct ones now because I'm a big person.

But Calgary is dead last on my list. I hate that place so much. But it's such a great crowd. It's like one of those crowds where somehow every single person in Calgary has a Calgary Flames jersey, a red one. And they just all show up and it's so cool looking and the fires come out of this tangents. Like if they had a real press box there, I'd love it, the old school feel of it. I just hate that press box. But I think I'm leaning Calgary.

I like when Canadian teams get in. good at like it's getting that atmosphere that energy uh utah can wait you know Vegas you know you guys wreck the curve for every new franchise and and I I you got a you got you got to you got to pay your dues a little bit don't you yeah and this one's kind of different because it's like it's not Seattle like Seattle made it in their second year it's not a new team technically like it's still the same players I don't know but yeah I I I don't mind Utah having to wait a couple of years like you you get the team and like with Utah they didn't even have the run up that Seattle and Vegas had like

When Vegas was awarded a team, it was like two years before they actually played their first game. Utah, it's like they got a team and then like a week later the season started. There was almost no run up for it. Yeah, it was so quick. I feel like pain is an important part of being a fan. The pain is what makes the joy so great. So I feel like Utah, you'll be fine if you don't make it this year. You can, you can bide your time. You're having fun.

Everything's, you know, puppies and rainbows because it's your first year. Let Calgary. That's a fan base that's been through some stuff, man. let them have this one. If Calgary does end up making it and we get like Montreal sneaks in, Ottawa is already locked in. Like we might have every Canadian team in the entire league in the playoffs this year. My God, I hadn't even thought about that. That the, the, just the odds of like, okay, there are 16 teams. It's like, well, almost half of them are Canadian. Like, are we finally going to get the Canadian Cup that that would have to involve the Minnesota wild just plummeting out of the

playoffs. Okay. Vancouver and Calgary. Yeah, you're right. You're right. It's unbelievable the way the wild have stumbled around lately and all the injuries are dealing with. But that feels like a long shot. Yeah, you're right. If you're the one Canadian team that doesn't get in, what's the punishment? There's got to be some kind of like, the country has to do something to you, doesn't it? Yeah, it's like when you lose your like fantasy football or your fantasy hunting. They got to wear like a goofy outfit and go to like an oilers game.

Right. All right. So we're pulling for Columbus. We're pulling for Detroit. We're pulling a little bit for Calgary. Utah, maybe. We just don't want the Rangers, the Islanders, or the Bruins. Please, God.

No offense to our listeners in New York and Boston. That's very big markets for the athletic, and we love you and appreciate you. I am a native New Yorker. I understand, but we're sick of you. It's time for you to take a seat. Side note for Utah, if they make the playoffs. I'm excited to see how much they can sell those tickets for where you can only see half the rink for a playoff game.

There's 5,000 of them. For anyone who's not aware that's listening, there are a lot of seats on the end zones on like behind the nets in Utah's arena where you can only see the half of the rink that's further from you. So anytime the puck comes into your zone that's closer to you, you can't see it at all. You have to watch on the JumboTron. They still sell those seats.

For the most part, they're pretty cheap. And when I went, they were all full. I was stunned at looking up there and like that entire section was full. I want to see how much they can sell those tickets for in the playoffs. being able to watch half the rink live. You know, it's really something. I remember when the islanders moved to Brooklyn, there was about 150 seats that were like that.

And the islanders were just crucified for it. Like, what an embarrassment. This is pathetic. Here comes Utah with 5,000 of those seats. And everyone's like, yay, Utah. This is a bitter Long Islander in me, but I do not understand why Utah gets a pass where the islanders were just murdered,

just crushed time in and time again. and they had a stupid, they had a car in the corner. Everybody hated. Like, there's just flat walls of pushed in bleachers in Utah. It's such a rinky dink arena at this point. They're going to fix it. But we got like three years of this. And nobody's mad at Utah.

I'm just pointing that up. I'm just saying. I'm not saying. It's not fair. Anyway, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk to the goalie guy about goalies. All right, we're back. Now is the segment where I get to sit back and just chill while Jesse talks a lot about goalies.

My favorite segment. you had a story last week or a few days ago about you power ranked all the goalie tannums in the NHL you had Winnipeg first now this is a tandem rankings not a goalie rankings is this one of those situations where if I were Connor Hela Bucks backup we'd still be number one or is Mike Comrie really that good Eric Comrie is Eric Comrie sorry he's better than people give him credit for And I mean, the guy's got a 9-14 save percentage on the year. Now, he's getting the easy matchups. Like, he's very insulated.

He's playing behind one of the best teams in the league. So there are definitely factors in that. I don't think Eric Comrie is a 9-14 goalie, but he is playing better this year. His record's not very good. And people like to point out, like, how different his record is from Carr-Hellibuck. But the Jets are scoring, like, one and a half goals a game in Comrie starts and three-and-a-half in Hellebuck starts. So I do think Comrie gets a bad rap in terms of that.

But I think. The way I went about this in terms of ranking the Tannams was if you're using them 50-50, the way Washington does, I'm going to put equal weight in both goalies. If you've got one of the rare unicorns that exists nowadays that can play 60 games like Connor Hellebuck, Igor Shisterkin, Andre Vasselovsky in Tampa, I'm going to put way more weight on that guy because the other guy just isn't as important. So I think that it is like Vasilevsky and Tampa Bay comes in at six in this ranking, which is low because I think Vasilevsky. Vasselovsky's top two goalie in the world with Hellebuck and Shestrkin. I guess those three are the clear top three to me. I've got them below Toronto because I think Jonas Johansson, the backup in Tampa Bay, drags that team down a little bit.

They do force, it does force Vaselowski to play more games than maybe you'd like. So I think Comrie has played well enough that the Jets aren't overplaying Hellebuck and playing him every single night. So I think that that's kind of how I approached it in terms of ranking the tandums. Yes, there are some single goalies in there that are carrying a lot of wait. Conor Helibuck's doing a lot of work to get that team to the number one tandem. But I view them as they are two working components. And if the backup is doing good enough at his job to allow the starter, especially if he's a

workhorse to do his job the way they want, then I'm fine with that. Backup goalies are, it's so strange because, you know, I know we have more rotations than we used to and we're seeing more teams use multiple goalies in the playoffs. But really, when it comes down to a backup goalies are just there for the regular season. And then he gets to the playoffs. and it's like Connor Hellobuck's not going to be sitting for any games in the playoffs unless something really bad happens, either heat something like an injury or he's playing horribly.

Like so being a backup goalie is such a weird job where you're, you are an intricate part of that team getting into the playoffs and then you might as well be a black ace because who cares about you. It's a very strange spot to be in. Until somebody breaks the mold, I keep, I'm going to keep banging this drum. I wanted Boston to do it the last two years. They didn't either year. They started doing it last year and then they quickly abandoned it immediately.

If there's a team that could do that this year, I think it's the Maple Leafs, and I really want them to. I know they're not going to, but I would love for the Maple Leafs to keep that rotation of the Lars and Wall going. Washington could, but it's pretty clear Logan Thompson has, he is drastically outplaying Charlie Lindgren this year. Like, Lindgren's a good backup, and I like that they kept the rotation going because it just feels like that's what they're getting the best out of Thompson because they're playing them 50-50. But when you get down to it, you look at their numbers, like Thompson is far in a way, the better goalie this year. whereas Stolars and Wall, Stolars numbers are better. He was hurt for a lot of the time, so he hasn't played nearly as many games as Wall. But I think that they are, I think Toronto is the closest thing to what we had in Boston last year with two very good goalies.

And it's tough to pick who the better of the two is. So I doubt they'll do it. I highly doubt they'll do it because everyone's afraid. And I don't blame these coaches. I'm not in the position of a guy just won me a game six. He gets a shutout in game six to force the game seven. It's like, we're going to the other guy. I'm not the one that has to make that call, but man, do I want somebody to do it and for it to work and for it to just completely change the way we view goalies in the playoffs.

You know, you having the Leafs fifth kind of caught my eye because we never think about the Leaves having great goaltending. We think of them, they're a team that has high-end offense, tries to muddle through defensively and has mediocre goaltending. Now, these are two goleys who haven't really done a whole lot in the playoffs, right? I mean, Wall and Stolars, they're not proven playoff commodities yet. But this is, you know, on the one hand, you got, you know, shoot, Ottawa isn't, they're getting bigger in the rearview mirror right now. So I'm not sure it really matters because they're either going to get Tampa in the two three matchup or Florida in the wild card matchup.

Either way, a brutally difficult first round foe for Toronto. But do they have the goalies that can get them through that for the first time maybe in the playoffs? Maybe that's the difference between this Maple Leafs team and all the other ones that we've seen flame out. I totally agree. I think this Tampa, or this Maple Leaf's team is not. as high powered offensively. They're not as dangerous looking. When you watch the games,

it doesn't feel like they're going to score on every shift, maybe the way they used to, but they play better structure. And I think they have, first of all, I think they have better goalies. I think Stolars and Wall are awesome. Like, I think they're talented. I think that the numbers, like both of them are putting up impressive numbers, especially Stolars, who's right up there with like Hella Buck and the top guys and Save Percentage. I don't think those numbers are, like, there's anything phony about those numbers. I think Stolars has been awesome this year. And if you look back. He hasn't, he's unproven because he was stuck behind two studs. Like he was in Anaheim when Jod Gibson was at his peak and he was one of the best goalies in the league. So he never played.

Then he goes to Florida and he's stuck behind the biggest contract in the NHL and Sergey or biggest goalie contract for a long time for Sergei Birovsky. He never gets to play. But even when he was playing in limited roles behind both those guys, he put up amazing numbers. I've said it probably three times on this podcast, the crazy stat of like the only goalies in the league with positive goals saved above expected for like three years in a row. And it was Vasilevsky, Shasturkin, Hellebuck, and Sorokin and Anthony Stolars. And before this year, that name stuck out like, well, who the hell is that guy? Now that we've seen him play and he's actually been able to have a number one role on a good team, we're seeing that this guy that's

been putting up good numbers in small sample sizes for the last couple of years is a really good goalie who just didn't get to play enough. And I think the more he's playing, maybe the better he even feels. He's starting to get in more of a rhythm. He is a gigantic goalie. And not only is he big, he plays big. When you watch the Maple Leafs play and Stolars is a net, you just don't see the net. There's nothing to shoot at. It's got to be so intimidating as a shooter to come down. And there's nothing being shown in terms of angles to the net. He's a big guy. He knows how to play his angles really well. I really like what we've seen from Stolars. And I agree with you that this might not be the best Leafs team we've seen, but they might be the best prepared.

to win a playoff series, the way they play defense structurally, and the way the goalies are playing at the moment. For the record, you told me all this great stuff about Laurent Prasua, too, and I still have not met that, man. As far as I know, he does not exist as a human being. Yeah, he can't stay healthy. The dude's a great goalie when he's, he's a very good goalie when he's healthy,

but that hasn't happened very often. I think the team that will most surprise people is your number two. The Anaheim Ducks, people don't think about the Anaheim Ducks, you know, in general, but they're certainly not really thinking about their goal tending too often. What is it about this pair that you like so much? So John Gibson is not what he once was. He is not the star goalie he used to be. But when John Gibson is your backup and he's your clear number two, he is an amazing backup. Like John Gibson at his current state, and he's playing really well this year. He's got a 9, 10 save percentage. He's

stopped 10 goals above expected. He's up there in those stats, especially considering he hasn't played many games because he had his appendix removed right at the beginning of the season and missed a bunch of time. So when John Gibson is your second best goalie, you are in phenomenal shape. And then there's Lucas Dostall, who has been hyped up as one of the better young goalies in the league for a couple years. And this year, he finally got thrust. I mean, we didn't even expect him to be the number one this early.

Like coming into the season, coming into training camp, John Gibson was still the guy. It was going to be more of a split, but it wasn't going to be Dostall in the lead. And then Gibson has that ependectamine. Nostal gets thrown in there. And he's just amazing. And this guy is fun to watch. He's not the most athletic goalie. like he is athletic enough, but the way he reads the game, you don't see many goleys ahead of the

play where there's a cross-ice pass for a one-timer. And he's beating the puck to the player. Like he is there almost like now I've got to wait on the play to get to me. Like he is so ahead of the play. The way he reads the play, the way he processes it, it's very Connor Hellebuck-like. I think like the way they look and the way they like the style they play, not similar at all, but the way he reads the game and he just doesn't have to make any stretching saves. You never see him reaching his pads, his reaching his gloves. It's always hitting him in the chest because he's ahead of the play. I love what I've seen from Lucas Stostall.

He's third or fourth in goals saved above expected right behind Hellebuck and Logan Thompson this year. And I don't think those numbers, like I think he is going to be one of the top goalies in the league going forward now. I don't think this is a blip of a season, just a hot goalie for a couple months. I think Lucas Nostal is like coming onto the scene as this guy is legitimate and he's the franchise goalie for the ducks. And then you have at the far end, the entire state of Pennsylvania, Penguins 31st, Fliers 32nd. And I want to use that to start talking about your other story that you had about. This is a really bad time than either goalie. It is.

And it's funny because I took a look. So the Golden Knights signed Aiden Hill to a big extension the other day. And I was like, wow, I feel like Hill was set to be. the guy because he was going to be the top guy in free agency. There wasn't really another second. And he had a chance to make a lot of money off that. He ends up signing with the Golden Knights. It was a good deal for both of them. It's not like he took a bad deal. But I ended up pulling up who the top free agent options are. And it's slim pickings. Right now, Frederick Anderson, who has barely played for the Carolina Hurricanes. He's been hurt. Always around. Freddie Anderson, always around.

But when he's on the ice, man, does he put up elite numbers? Like the guy's numbers are like top five in the league when he's healthy, but it's only six games a year. So you've got him, you've got Jake Allen, who is having a phenomenal season in New Jersey. And he is, to me, the prototypical backup goalie. Like, he is perfect for the backup goalie in terms of just his demeanor. He's a great teammate. He's a great goalie partner. When Jacob Markstrom went down with a pretty serious injury this year, he came in and he's put up better stats than Markstrom has. But he's a backup goalie. If you are looking to upgrade your starter, Jake Allen is not pushing the needle. Neither are Alexander Georgiev, Ilya Sampsonov, Dan Vladar, David Riddick, Alex Lyon, Anton Foresburg,

Vitech, Vec, Vec, Vech, Yohansson, James Reimer, and Vile Huso. That's the list. And the reason we've gotten to that point is because the GMs looked forward, saw that list, and they were like, I need to sign my goalie now. So you look at all the goleys that, like, McKenzie Blackwood, Colorado trades for him, he was going to be a free agent. They immediately signed him. He had played like one game for the avalanche. So like, that's good enough for us. We're signing him.

Joey DeCord got his deal. Karel Vamelka got his deal right before the deadline. He was a pending free agent. Kevin Lankinen in Vancouver, the Canucks are in a weird spot with Thatcher Demko's injuries, but they just decided we are committing to Lankan in five years because of the uncertainty and because of the lack of options in free agency. Charlie Lindgren and Logan Thompson for Washington were both set to be free agents. They are both extended.

So basically every top starting goalie in the league that was set to become free agency. agent have all signed extensions and it leaves teams with very little options in free agency. And that should make, we saw last year, last summer, two huge goalie trades. We saw Markstrom go from Calgary to New Jersey and that was huge. And then I'm blanking on the other one right now. Oh, Allmark from Boston to Ottawa, two teams that were playoff teams, expected to be in the playoffs, went and got them a starting goalie. We might see that again this summer.

I think if you want to upgrade your starting goalie and there are going to be teams that do, Oilers, if they don't go on a deep run, you know they're going to be looking at it. Stuart Skinner obviously has a chance to prove he's the guy, but if he doesn't, they're going to be looking at it. And it almost is going to force you into the trade market because there just aren't starting upgrades available in free agency. Arvid's Soderbloom offer sheet incoming. Yes. All right. Well, bleak ties if you don't have a goalie.

So good luck with that entire state of Pennsylvania. Thanks for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show. Please leave us a five-star rating and review if you're enjoying the show. On Wednesday, Sean McIndoo and Frankie Carado, we're back. I don't know why I just said Mockandu for McIndoo. Plus an interview with Ducks Forward, Alex Collorn. We'll talk to you then.