The Athletic Hockey Show - Why Bowen Byram signed an extension with the Sabres

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

Sean and Sean discuss the reasons why Bowen Byram decided to stay with the Sabres, signing for two more years, leading him to unrestricted free agency. The guys dissect the Arthurs Silovs trade to Pittsburgh, with Edmonton losing yet another opportunity to upgrade their goaltending, and Gentille and McIndoe answer your questions in an extended summer mailbag.Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What up, what up? The athletic hockey show Wednesday edition. No Frank. Frank is gone for the summer. I'm going to keep saying it until he comes back. It's just me, Sean Chantilly, and Sean McIndue here. Dude, I feel like we are officially in the dregs of the offseason.

It was like a couple points of order got buttoned up over the last week or so. And now we're truly looking at offseason. stories. Joe Smith wrote a cool story about a guy in the wild, his brother as a Navy SEAL, trying to conjure offer sheets for Mason McTavish. But other than that, we had a big scoop today on the

Columbus Blue Jackets new equipment manager. Literally. Sydney Crosby's tied. It's actually a good story, but this is where we're at. I have to do tomorrow morning's newsletter. And it's because of, of how we sort of work the schedule.

It's been 10 days since the last one. So I was like, this will be great. I just get you caught up on the last 10 days. Nope. Nothing to catch up on it. I got conscripted into newsletter duty on August 7th, I think. Mark your calendars, everyone.

It's going to be a good one. Yeah, it's going to be really good. It's going to be written so well. There's going to be so much interesting stuff that's happening. on August 7th. And everybody don't even know. What's going to happen on that day

when that newsletter hits your inbox, you're going to hit reply and you're going to go, this was amazing, best one ever, whoever did this one should do them all going forward. Yeah, right. I'll make that happen.

Oh, God. Don't let me be a newsletter boy. I don't want to be a newsletter boy. There are, there's a couple bits of news, though, that have floated in and out over the last few days. They'll get you catch up on. But the main point of today's episode is in tune with the fact that we are

officially in the drag of the off season, we are doing a mailbag up, which is there's no better signifier that there's nothing good to talk about than a podcast mailback app. So that's going to be the bulk of it. But before we get on to that, I did want to at least touch on, well, we'll start with the Bob Byram extension.

He signed for $6.25 million with the Sabres for two more seasons. Obviously, he was a restricted free agent on July 1st. Heard some offer sheet chatter about him, you know, at some point. But Sean, you'll never believe it. Didn't actually happen. He signed a reasonable deal with his previous team. He didn't actually get offer shaded. Can you believe that this, that this happened and that it went down?

Shocking. And so I guess the news here is that it's two years, which means this walks him right up to UFA. But the Sabres can trade him during that time. So they are not locked in on anything here. I just find Bowen Byron might be one of the more divisive players in the league as far as what people think of him. Partly because, you know, we saw him go from a really good team that had great defensemen ahead of him to a really bad team that still has a pretty good defenseman ahead of him or at least around him. And I have seen everything from this guy is a star in waiting and get him out of Buffalo and it's all going to happen again, right? We've all seen guys leave Buffalo when they go on and become stars.

And this is just going to happen again with this 24-year-old defenseman who's just about to pop. Right through, I've seen people say this guy is not good. If he wasn't drafted where he was drafted, nobody would be talking about him the way they talk about him. And then a bunch of things in between. And I guess now the Sabres have two years to figure it out. and probably only that because I'm barring a big turnaround. I don't think he's a Buffalo Sabre in

2007-28, but they've got two years now. You would imagine at least by then we're going to know whether he's good or not. And I still don't think. You would hope. You know what? We might have been saying that about Bo Byron two years ago too. So you never know.

Maybe this is just who he is. He's inconsistent enough to always kind of live. in that nether world of what he is and what he is in. The issue with him and the issue for Buffalo last season is that he was good with Rasmus Dahlin. Like he was he was good as his partner on Buffalo's top pair. Their results across the board were solid. I think at this point his career, me and you could be good next to Rasmus Dahlian. He's he's a fringe Norris candidate, right?

And he's only getting better. So the fact that Bo Byram was, you know, passenger number one on a pairing with Rasmus Dahlin is, it's all well and good, but it doesn't tell us too much about what he's like in other situations, other scenarios. And when he did play on his own and when he, when you did get him away from Dahlene, the results kind of cratered. So I think that's, you know, the issue moving forward is, is he just the running mate for Dahlene on a first pair? and if so fine but if so does that make him worth 6.25 for the next two moving forward and does it make him worthy of you know some kind of raise in term and money after that and that's what they need to figure out or best case scenario for buffalo is he continues improving and then they have like a high end piece as the as the guy on the on the second pair but it it is going to be whatever way it goes, it's, it's going to be tough on Kevin Adams, presumably, because he's GM for life in Buffalo. Sure. Because, you know, Bowen Byram will, will either not develop, in which case now you're selling low,

or he will develop, in which case, you will then be able to talk yourself into what we've got to keep this guy. Yeah. Can't create a guy like this who's, who's, you know, doing so well. And then you start throwing extensions at him. And I mean, it's it's possible that he just doesn't want to stay in Buffalo. It would certainly be possible he doesn't want to stay there if they're still where they are now two years from now.

But I mean, I feel like we're also kind of reading into that. Like he hasn't that I'm aware of come right out and said, get me out of here. There have certainly been some reports that he would have been open to, as he said, offer sheets and stuff like that. But who knows? Hey, some team goes on a PDO bender every year. Maybe it's the Sabres this year for once and they make the playoffs and suddenly everyone loves it there and he can't wait. Yeah.

Yeah, maybe. Lots of things could happen. Sabers are exempt from the PDO boom, obviously. That's just not the way. It's not the way things work. I should. Let me phrase that differently. Maybe they go on a PDO boom and finish 12 this year.

Eight points out of the playoffs instead of 18. And Bo Byram has a lightning strike season that earns him, uh, an. eight year or a seven year extension or something and he immediately just looks like you know a third pair of who you have to you have to shelter to get anything worth out of when he's making nine million dollars a year that's it i think that's probably most likely so the savers are paying what is it i think 26 million now to their three best defense yeah and two of them might not be any good great great great great the other thing we didn't talk about even though this had happened by the time me and Jesse Granger and Scott Wheeler were talking about the top 100 drafted

prospects on Monday. I can't remember if this happened or not. It doesn't matter. Pittsburgh traded for Archer Ceylaw from Vancouver. They sent a draft pick and Corey Stelman's son Chase back to Vancouver. Chase Stelman was a first round pick a few years ago, but hasn't done much. I think he kind of tops out as it seems like the prospect guys think he could potentially play on, you know, a fourth line or something, but it looks like he's, his development is certainly, has certainly plateaued. Pittsburgh goes out and gets another goaltender, which is interesting because we just saw them fix that logjam, that bit of a logjam that they had there with Tris and Jari.

They sent out Alex Natalkovich. They have Joe Blomkviz, who's, you know, something of a prospect and was pretty good at points for them last season, spelling Jari. And then they have another, another prospect, everyone in the organization likes behind him, right? So you have Musharov, who needs minutes in the HL still, you know, I think that's why, I think that's why this is interesting. Because Arturis, see love, based on plenty of bits and pieces over the course of his career, is certainly capable of being an NHL goaltender. We saw it in the playoffs a couple years ago against Nashville. We've seen it internationally.

Like, he's been good. And he certainly seems capable of being a goaltender on a crap team, like Pittsburgh's going to be. that what makes this interesting is if he is on the is he kind of has to be an NHL goal tender this year because if he's if he's if he's in the HL he's taken minutes from and starts from a player who legitimately seems like he could be part of Pittsburgh's next half decent team so I think a lot of people there are connecting the dots whether it's with Jari whether it's the CELA and just trying to say like all right they have they basically have four goaltenders who do to their profiles are only really

competing for three jobs. So that's why that's interesting. Who cares about Pittsburgh's goal-tating situation? They stink. But the fact of the matter is it's very possible, whether it's Jari or whoever else, that they're dealing from some kind of position of strength. And if a team like Edmonton or whatever come November or March

or whenever the spaghetti hits the fan for them, I think Pittsburgh makes a lot of sense as a potential trading partner there. Yep. And I mean, this is what we're going to do with every goalie transaction from here until whenever is go, okay, well, but how does this affect the Oilers? Why weren't the Oilers in on this guy? And they could have been. You know, maybe Vancouver just didn't want to move him in the division. And it's that simple.

But certainly from a Vancouver perspective, not a great return on a guy who really flashed something a couple years ago. But you can understand it. He's waiver eligible. They have committed, you know, 10 figures to their, yeah, to their, their, their top two. So, you know, you're going to lose them for nothing in a couple of months, very likely. So you get something. Yeah. And, you know, he wasn't, he wasn't great last year.

He was their opening, he was their opening night starter, right? Yeah. Like, there's a lot of goalies in this league who, like, I've said before, there are more NHL goalies and there are jobs for NHL goalies. And even a guy like this where, you know, I'm sure there were some other fan bases out there going, oh, we could have, surely we could have given up a fourth round pick for a guy like that, that guy's better than what we have. Yeah, but is he, you know, and how much better and, you know, there's, you know, and even

for a team like Edmonton, is he better than Stuart Skinner? No, probably not. Is he better than Calvin Picard? maybe, but does that solve the problem or is that just, you know, do you still have the same problem with different names attached to it and on down the line? So it's tough. His moving goalies is weird. He gets you a different guy to put under the break in case of emergency glass if you're Edmonton and you really just, you know, hope you get a Andrew Hammond around from or something, but I, that's, that's, I don't think that's an acceptable course of action for them.

It's not a plan, right? It's, it's, so I, it certainly seems like for now, the Oilers, unless they pull a rabbit out of the hat the rest of the summer, that the idea is more, let's go into the season, and then we see who's out there in the season having a good season, which makes some sense, right? I mean, goalies kind of fluctuate season to season. Now, they can also fluctuate month to month and week to week, and there's no guarantee, but, you know, kind of see who's playing well and who is it and who maybe falls out of it. now obviously that's by November you though you talk yourself into

Stuart Skinner again right oh you know he's having a good season Stuart Skitter's having a good season and now you're you're right into it so yeah because we've never seen that before I and no it is it is it is some kind of understandable course of action for Edmonton because they're they're good enough you know what do you think this is this is a bad thing is a is a whole other issue entirely they're good and they're good enough to, A, lose games and or coast through parts of the regular season. Like, they don't have to be, they don't have to be in prime form on, you know, October 9th moving forward. They've done it in each of the last two seasons. A lot of it was, and a lot of it was

goaltending base, but where they just lose, where they lose a bunch of games, you start to wonder. And then there, but their, their high end is good enough for them to, to buy them time to wait and see who falls through the crack. So on some level, I kind of understand it. Artur Cilov is, is, what he is at this point. You know, I think it's, you've got to assume that based on their return, that if Edmonton wanted to match that, they could have. And for whatever reason,

they didn't. And I just, I look at that, Sean, and you said it, you said it, you know, a couple minutes ago, it just reeks of it, of Vancouver not wanting to do business with, with, with, with a divisional rival. Remember, like we, and maybe this was just everyone on the outside

making stuff up, but there was a lot of speculation that Edmonton would be talking to Vancouver about Thatcher Demko as a guy who would come in, who would be a guy that you would come in and go, okay, that is an upgrade on what we've got. And then, of course, that didn't happen. I mean, you would assume there was at least a conversation, but no, for whatever reason, this is, yeah, I mean, I kind of get it from Edmonton's perspective because it's like, if they made this same deal, maybe they make it a little bit better prospect and that's what gets Vancouver to, to say yes. Have you actually addressed anything? Not really. Or now do you now do you have three okay goalies that may not be good enough to Adding a quasi, adding a quasi viable option is just not.

Yeah. That's not. And all three of them are waiver eligible. So, you know, you got to make a decision in the fall. I mean, the big takeaway here is we're marching towards the inevitable Trish and Jari trade Edmonton.

we've we joked about it in one way or another for a few months and you know it seems it seems like it seems like it's getting closer so got to get you they better rehab them during this during the year then because i i cannot see it like if that trade happened today i don't see emminton fans being too excited that's that that's that's part of the reason it needs to happen like it like that he's he's he's just good enough for for uh it's like i'm gonna think okay this is this is a legit option it's gonna happen july 6th 16th market down. Let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll do our mailbag up and get you guys in and out of here. All right, folks, we're back. The mailbag's open. The Macadoo mailbag.

He did a lot of the heavy lifting on the, on the questions prompt. Really heavy. Very heavy. I typed one thing into blue sky. He's got a more engaged fan base than me. I think that's, I think that's fair to say. They're engaged, all right. They're certainly very engaged.

We're going to just alternate between questions. We'll pick our favorites and just throw them at each other. I think that's the easiest way to do this. Here's one. Nicodemus at DK Country on B Skye. In an offseason where everyone seems to think they're a playoff team, which teams do you think have the greatest disconnect between how good they think they are and how good they actually are?

Sean McIndoe, I present this to you first. That's a fun one. It just came in, too. And it's fun because, I mean, I mean, it implies that we would somehow know what these things really think of themselves. Yeah, like Pat for Beaks getting the, he's already plotting out, you know, where the, where the, where the, where the cup laps can it, can it take place in Anah. I'm, I'm going to say a team that I got a few other questions about. I don't get what the plan is in Seattle right now.

And in fact, somebody else said essentially put in the question, and I'll say their name if I can find it. But basically we're asking how does Seattle keep from becoming the new Columbus, which at this point is probably even a little insulting to Columbus. But what they mean is the team that 20 years from now we're looking at it going, yeah, they've made the playoffs twice. they're, you know, they've just been in the middle the whole time. I don't, to me, I sympathize with a very tough situation that the Cracken came into the league in with the Golden Knights having a messed up perceptions about what expansion teams were supposed to be and also kind of screwing, preemptively screwing the Seattle over as far as the sort of moves they could make because all the GMs became such timid babies around the expansion draft and wouldn't

wouldn't deal with Ron Francis. But here we are years later. Like, where is this team? They don't have strong prospects. They don't have good young. I mean, they have some good young players like every team, but, you know,

not enough that you feel like there's anywhere close to a core in place that you can win with. What's the plan other than to finish, that to pick seventh for the next five years? Yeah, they came up on the on the prospects that we did on Monday too because, you know, high-end, high-ceiling talent is just an issue for them. And I know Scott likes Berkeley Cat in a lot, which is all well and good. But yeah, there's picking 7th, 8th, 11th, or whatever is no real recipe, especially after you,

a get screwed a bit in the first segment of the Expansion draft, like you said, because people just weren't going to make the same mistakes that they made with Vegas. And then B, you hoard all this cap space. And then great, congratulations on air quotes weaponizing your cap space. And you use all of it on brain of Montori is pretty good, but not great. And Chandler Stevenson, who's, you know, a 3C on on most teams. So there's been, there's been problems. Dom had a post on, that was ostensibly about the tax issue,

but it was really more about like who gets value out of their contract. And I believe Seattle very bottom. So that's tough. Aranel, by the way, was the one who sent in the question about Seattle. So, yeah, I don't love them right now. Who's your team that you think is fooling themselves? It's boring, but I'm going to say it's the Kings. I mean, I still think they're a playoff caliber team in a lot of ways.

And there's plenty of like about them in some ways. but they went out and added in free agency a bunch of players who seem like they're the finishing touch on like a true contender where you're like, okay, yeah, we could use a guy on the right. You can play big minutes. It's like, we'll go out and get Cody C.C. Or like, we need some other option on the left. Let's go out and get Brian Dumlin. Or we need some top, middle six option who can put the puck in the net a little bit. We'll go out and get Cozmanco.

It looked like they were filling needs. and to some extent they were, but those are all guys who are finishing touches on stuff. When you add three of those or four of those, players who seem like the guys you add when you're really close, I think that means you weren't as close as you thought you were in the first place. And they lose Gavrikov, who is maybe overrated,

maybe underrated, I don't know. It's sort of a tough one. He was great. He was great there and he was great. It's better than anybody they added. Columbus. Right? So, I mean, are they even, are they even any better after their offseason spending spree to get better?

No, I don't think so. I think I think that defensive group is kind of scary. You have two of your, I mean, Mikey Anderson is a good player on the left side. You have Joel Edmondson and Brian Dumlin playing behind him. And those guys, they were, they were absolutely useful at one point in another. Brian Dumlin, I think was really underrated for Pittsburgh during those cup years. But now what you want. So do I think they're capable of? making the playoffs again? Absolutely.

Do I think that they're as good as maybe it seemed like they assumed to be heading into the off season? And do I think that they're any closer to beating Edmonton in the playoffs? Absolutely not. Okay, I got one here from Georgie. He wants to know which of the New York teams is most likely to break out of the mushy middle either down into bad or up into good next season. So I'm assuming that's, I mean,

certainly the Islanders and Rangers he means. I don't know if he's counting the devils in there. I would hope he's not counting the Sabres because the Sabres would love, would love to hit the Mushy Biddle. Oh my gosh. They dream of the day. Nowhere's no way is more comfortable in the mushy medal. Is it as simple as saying the Rangers could, I mean,

are a year removed from a president's trophy and it could it could all click back in. and I think that's a boring answer but I think that almost has to be it because there's just Sarkin. I think I know he'll see my kid a season from hell last year, but we've seen it from him enough in the past where you look at him and you say he's an answer.

And Mike Sullivan is a high end NHL coach. So I think even though for as bad as the vibes were there last season, and for as bad as they might be this season, you know, and for even with the talent train, whether it's Miller or whoever else, leave in town. I think the Trump card for me is for for me is just circan.

And I'm not saying the devils by the way is an indictment on them for sure because, you know, blame, blame injury is all you want. But there's something about that mix there, man, even in the bottom six, even after adding Connor Brown, where I'm just like,

this is not, this is not a high end playoff team. The devil's just spinning their wheels until Quinn Hughes, a year from now or is that? The inevitability of Quinn. The Dougie Hamilton plus plus for Quinn Hughes trade coming next summer. It's going to hit so hard. Yeah, probably.

Because what else can they do? Their cap situation is fairly tough right now. It stopped them from doing some interesting stuff in the off season. As far as the Islanders are. Yeah, the Islanders are just. A month ago, I might have had a different answer on the Islanders because with Matthew Darsh coming in, there was a part of me going, let's see what this guy does. and it seems like what he's going to do is just go status quo at least for a year.

I feel like a new guy, he could have said we're doing the tear down. We got the number one pick. We're going to, you know, we're going to start there and we're going to tear it down. Now, easier said than done, you look at the contract situation. It's not, you know, there's not a lot of teams lining up for some of these guys. But I would have thought that. But no, it seems. And they're another team where.

The goaltender, you know, Ily Sorokin is good enough that even if they're bad, he can probably keep them in the mushy middle, which may include a playoff spot, by the way. I mean, the middle includes wild card team. So, I mean, you can get in the playoffs and that seems like it's the plan for the Islanders. Yeah, you know what I will say about about the Islanders. We talked about this a bit on Friday. Is this because I just accept whatever Wheeler tells me about prospects as immeatable fact? to like absolutely. They have five guys in his top 34,

which is pretty, which is pretty impressive. So they did a good, they've done a good job of adding future talent. But yeah, man, in terms of the guys that they have there right now, I just don't,

don't, don't quite see it. Jonathan asks, Jonathan Morris, John Rott, K-O-A on Twitter. Do you feel like the ducks have done enough to make the playoff push

they've sold to their fans? Trading Gibson, Zegers, seems like net negatives as far as your turn. I like Granlin Crider and Paling, but I definitely feel like the fans were sold a bigger swing slash returns. Interesting. I'm not sure that they're like put it this way.

When we did our way too early picks, I didn't have the Ducks as a playoff team. Now, playoff push is different than playoff team. I don't, I still think it's a, it's more of a transition year, although I don't think it's out of

the question that the Ducks could surprise us. But what's interesting to me is the idea of what have they sold to the fans? Because that's something like, the people like you and I nationally don't necessarily see how much it pushed locally to a fan base. And yeah, if they're pushing hard that this is the year we flip the switch and make the playoff push, I don't know.

They missed by about 20 points last year, 16 points. 16 points is a lot to make up. especially when you've traded to decent players, although Gibson wasn't the starter anymore, and Zegro's, it was long past time to make that move. So, yeah, that's, I think they could certainly be in the mix. I do not have them in the Chicago San Jose zone anymore.

I think they move past that. But if the fans there feel like they've been promised playoffs, then yeah, they make. may they may not have done enough. I've said this before. I do like the Greenland signing for them because that's at least some kind of signal that there is some degree of urgency

and that they are no longer actively trying to lose games. And that's more than we can say for a couple of those other teams in the list. So I give Pat for Brees points for trying. But yeah, if there's some widespread, you know, PR campaign in Orange County that's like trying to push them as a legit play,

I think I think, uh, you're going to be disappointed because they, these guys good, Carter Goce had a, had a, had a nice season last year, like on and on. They have, they have, they have pieces. They've got pieces. They've got pieces, but I, but there's still two or three more steps away before they can really go all in on, hey, yeah, come, come, come watch a, come watch a legit, you know, wild card contender and night in and night out. Yeah.

Uh, Richard asks, how much more fun is next season if Connor McDavid does not sign? and extension. Oh, man. Depends on your definition. For Euler fans? Yeah. For Euler fans, not very fun. For everybody else,

way more fun. Way more fun. This is, this, and I know every Euler fan is already, like, if, if the goalie talk didn't already drive them away,

they're like, I don't want to hear this. I get it. Every other fan base, though, is, you know, for this to turn into a season-long soap opera

would be fantastic. fantastic entertainment value. And we're seeing it some of the other questions too. We got one from Caruso Gola on Twitter saying is Carolina the best position team to add McDavid and remain competitive?

I love it. People are salivating already. They make a good point. Aho's a great two seat. Slave and Nikitian and Stancove on great contracts. All true. Yeah, dream.

Why not? It doesn't, you're Carolina or Anaheim or L.A. Yeah, start having fun. Look at that cap space and be like, hmm, we could fit a $17 million player quite easily, in fact. The great part is virtually every other fan base would be able to talk themselves into maybe we could get economy days, especially if he just hit free agency.

If he gets to pick his destination, maybe, why not us? Maybe it's us right up until he picks a destination and then you're going to have 30 fan bases just bitter. that you went to Carolina. Oh, okay. So I guess that's all this guy wanted. It was, you know, what, going to a great team and organization that could pay them lots of money? Yeah. Oh, they got him.

They got him a Pinehurst membership. And that's all it took. Yeah. It's when he signs with the Florida Panthers at seven times six million cap hit. And says, you know what? I'm happy to be the 3C behind Barkov and Sam Bennett. I just want to wait. baby you know connor mac david always really interested in is riding his golf cart to practice and hanging

out in his flip flops all year long that's it man state income tax blah blah blah blah blah blah blah who's next who is it is it is is it is it is it isn't me well i i don't even remember but i got i got a great one from jason um jason makes jason makes great point have you considered touching on the maple the Leafs. That's a fantastic point, Jay's. We have not talked about the Leafs at all. Where are we at, Sean? Every week, every week. I'm trying to get McAnew to talk more about the leaves. He just doesn't play ball. I don't know what it is, man. He's great. He's great to work with otherwise, but he's really, really dismissive of my question in this one particular. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, man. Leaves haven't done too much over the last few weeks.

I mean, we covered all the Mariner drama, but other than that, I don't know. Where do you had they were number one in the division last year are they there again or did they drop down does anyone even want to win that division because it feels like the panther and lightning are both like no we're fine we want to make the playoffs but we don't really care about any of the we're going to try to go into energy conservation mode from from uh december december to you know mid march yep um yeah we can just we can just flash forward to the maple of signing jack rosselvic and just pretend pretend that that's going to happen. We're still waiting on that.

Jack is, Jack is Biden his time. Kelly asks on blue sky, this is a little more conceptual. What do you think makes a one C in today's NHL? Like, are there, are there characteristics there where you're like, that's a guy,

a high-end guy you can win with? Yeah. And, you know, this gets into the whole, like, you know, what do we even mean when we say that? because you know, you would say that in theory, by definition, there are 32 one Cs in the NHL that I mean any given time, right? 32 teams, 32 centers who are good enough to be a one.

And yet there's not, right? I feel like if we actually went down the list and put a little checkmark next to all the we'd probably wind up with, I don't know, 20 guys maybe. And some, you know, clearly some of them would be two guys on the same team. I mean, to me, it's like, what is it? Probably, probably 90 points down to 80 if they're a good two-way player. Yeah. Is about the cutoff for, yeah, that guy's absolutely, you know, he's, he's a 1C, no debate about it, no, you know, no conversation.

And there's, there's some teams that don't have that guy. There's some guys who, you know, it's, it's, it's the Nick Suzuki line where for years we, we had that debate. and then last year he he kind of silenced some of the some of the critics and uh see Dylan Dylan Larkin was always my go to there I feel like Dylan Larkins is is is the line in the sand Larkin line now which which side of the line is he on or does he like perpetually is he just in the liminal space between the two or neither a one C or not a one C I think the season before last he was he was over it I think that he was just just over it. I think this past season he was just under it. And certainly, you know, I, I think

to me, it's, it's, it is a little, it is a little intangible, but like to a, once he is a guy to me who you don't need to surround with other pieces, like, you like, you just, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you stick him in that space and you say, like, we're, we're, we're good. Like, like, we don't have to, we don't necessarily have to insulate him with a high and second line center. I think that's whenever you start talking about that, I think this is the way some of the Larkin discussion has always been phrased. And maybe that guy is Marco Casper,

by the way, because he was extremely good down the stretch for them last season. But when you start framing the discussion as like, well, I can't do it all by himself. You need to have a higher end piece behind him than what you got. I think you are in trouble. And to me,

a lot of the discussion around Larkin, you know, has kind of taken on. that tack. I think based on his comments around the trade deadline, Dylan Larkin is over it. It is a good, might be true and more ways.

Again, we need to just, we need to just fast forward to the point where he's like the best second line center in the league winning cups with, with some other team. Because it seems like, it seems like that might be closer than you think. All right, let's do,

let's do one more before the break. You know anything good? Yeah. Well, let's just, let's just go with this one. straight cash homie that's a weird thing for your parents

to name you but all right he wants to know sorry I'm I'm I'm being a impolated it's straight cash homie 36 so apologies to the first 35 straight that's the greatest that that's the greatest

like there's no no greater impact of Randy Moss's legendary saying is there are 35 other people that try to use it as their Twitter hand about although well 36 actually based on this question and he might be old enough that 36 is his birth year as well, because he wants to know, do you feel the NHL talent pool is currently stretched too thin?

And if so, how is the seemingly inevitable expansion going to further dilute the on-ice NHL product? And I pick this question because this comes up fairly often, I think whenever you talk about expansion is that we are diluting the product. I'll say this as kind of the history guy. if the talent pool is diluted, it is nowhere near as diluted as it used to be. The most extreme case ever was in the in the 1970s.

You went from in 1967, there were six NHL teams, six high-level pro teams in professional hockey. Then the NHL expanded and kept expanding through the 70s to the point where there were 21 teams by 1979. But also the WHA came in and offered professional high paying jobs. And the WHA had like 10, 12, 15, 20 teams in various points. So you went from six teams to literally 30 or 40 in a decade. That was talent dilution. And by the way, that was back when there were no European players, virtually no European players.

compare that to today where, you know, fewer pro teams than there were in the 70s. And of course, you have all of Europe. And of course, you have the United States, which was supplying a very small percentage of the talent pool back then. Back then it was mostly, it was almost entirely Canada. Now you've got the U.S. is supplying half the, you know, half the league almost. I don't, I would say, A, no, I don't think talent dilution is a problem. B, I would say, in general, I'm not sure that diluting the talent pool actually is a problem.

You could make the case that a little talent dilution is what this league needs, that there's a little bit too much skill out there on the fourth lines and third pairings and that sort of thing. I just described the 1970s. Yeah, it was diluted as hell back then. And all the records got shattered. we had a great dynasty, we had Bobby Orr changing the position, we had Phil Esposito shattering all these records, you had the haves and all of this through the 80s and Wayne Gretzky. Those numbers don't happen if you're not playing in a league that's pretty dilute.

I mean, you know, it's been said a million times, but watch any Wayne Gretzky highlights. The guy was amazing. But then watch the guys around him. Watch the people he's scoring on and tell me that talent is diluted now compared to what it was, you know, back then. I don't think it's an issue. I think there's more than enough guys just outside the NHL who are good enough for the NHL without embarrassing themselves, certainly. And you know what? If it's just, if diluted talent makes it a little bit easier for the Carter McDavid's of the world.

Okay. Not the worst thing. Yeah. especially when McDavid's on your team next year. See, we was playing for Carolina. Yeah. Also,

talent solution doesn't matter because expansion fees going to owners is more important. Even if it were a problem, they wouldn't, they wouldn't care because that is the primary goal. There's not a single owner putting his hand up at the meeting going, all right, boys, I know,

Gary, I know you just said two billion. I'm looking at the HL debt charts right now, guys. Fellas, I think we hold off. Who's with me? Who's with me?

Everybody, I'm going to march out the door. Who's, who's following behind? Come on. Come on. I wonder, I wonder if Elliot Friedman and Kyle, Bacosquez have mocked up graphics for 34 thoughts whenever they have to change the name of their podcast. That's,

that's what's going to get diluted is Elliot's got to come up with two more thoughts. Every, week, that's, two of them are just going to be like, ah, I like cheese. I don't know. Cheetah. And then, yeah, one dot and another dot cheese is in fact good. Yeah.

And then you and I will take that and do a full hour-long podcast on it. Correct. All right, let's take a break. We're going to come back, hit on some more mailbag questions, and move on with our lives. All right, we're back. Before we finish up with a couple more questions, a little bit of housekeeping here, depending on when you folks are listening to this, the NHL schedule for the 25, 26 season might be out. It's being released at 1 o'clock on the afternoon of Wednesday, July 16th.

We're going to parse it. We're going to go through all of it. There will be a post on the site telling you the dates that you have to pay attention to, telling you exactly when Mitch Marner is going back to Toronto and when Jonathan Taves is headed back to Chicago. And, you know, Marshawn's Boston return and the days with the most. games or the least games or if there's like maybe an interesting game in the Gavin McKenna tank battle, you know, down the stretch. We're going to have all that covered for you. There will be a post up on the site. And again, the schedule is being released at 1 o'clock on the afternoon

of Wednesday to 16th. So we do have that. We also have more questions that we're going to yeah. I'll give you one last one here. And this is from this is from your pal Dan, which a little presumptive. I don't have a pound him, Dan. Yeah, Dan, it's like we were acquaintances, but, you know, settle down. Why don't defensemen win MVPs anymore? You know, the guys that play the most minutes in all situations. The last D man to win it was Pronger in 99, 2000.

Madness. I have no idea, but that is a, it is a great question because defensemen absolutely should win the Norris and in fact the fact that or sorry not the Norse the Hart they do they do win the North they do tend to win the in fact they they tend to dominate the Norris good good rule of thumb

but I'll go you even even one further that not only is Chris Pronger the last defenseman to win the heart trophy which is ridiculous 25 years ago for a position that a lot of people say is the most important position to build around.

It's been 25 years since they've won an MVP. I'll go you one more. Chris Pronger is the last defenseman to even be a finalist. I don't think of that. That's insane. That is that is at so, you know, top three. Nobody else has even cracked the top three. And I mean, you go back to 2000.

So that's the second half of Nicholas Lidsstrom's brilliant career. That's all of Zadain O'Chara. That's, you know, on down the list. of great defensemen, you know, up through Kale McCar and Quinn Hughes and all of the guys we have today. Not even in the top three. The simple answer is the people who vote on this award, like Sean and I sometimes, are way too focused on forwards. And goalies also do not get enough respect, but, you know, every now and then, and, you know, we saw that this year, of course, at least we get the gus behind a goalie who who gets up and and gets some heart trophy love.

We're just too focused. I don't know if it's, I know some people say, oh, you guys just sort by points. I don't know if it's that simple, but for whatever reason, I don't know. And there is nothing, you know, I also get that some people will say, well, you know, defensemen have the norris and goalies have the Vezina. And so forward, you know, the heart is supposed to be for the forward. but it's not. There is nothing in the Hart Trophy that says it's for forwards. It's for everybody. And look, I've been banging this drum for years, but I've also filled out ballots for the

trophy where I look at the end of it and I got five forwards on there. So it's, uh, but my answer your question is I don't know, but it's a great point because there's no, you cannot possibly justify it and say, of the 75 most valuable players in the last 25 years, none of them were defenseman. Like that is that is a completely ridiculous and indefensible point. I'm going to be boring here and say that the main reason is because there is no best forward award. I think that's the primary cause here. And the idea I just we have we have the art Ross. We have the rocket Richard. The Selke is a we don't vote on it for two ways. We don't vote on them. But I mean, the guy who leads the league in scoring sits,

you know, gets a trophy. Like we we've already got that covered just like the best. best defenseman gets a trophy like i think when you're talking about a pretty decent size group of people too many like like this the voting block for nchl awards i think there's a lot of them that just would have a hard time stomach not being able to write in a forward for for one of the for one of the big three awards and i i i don't think i don't think that i don't think that's that's that absolutely has has won out plenty of times over the years and that's why there should be another one you should have the wayne gretzky award or so or something just give it give it to the top forward.

That's what the PWHL does. That's another thing that that league is doing, right? Is that they have best defender, best forward, best goal tender, and then the MVP can be just from some competition. And you know what else? You know what we should do after we make that change?

This is another thing I've been talking about for years. The MVP should be voted on after the playoffs. I'd be fine with that. You know, I'd be fine. Enough of this, you know, oh,

Taylor Hall got the devil's into the playoffs where they got absolutely, You got the doors kicked in in five games. He's the MVP. No, like, you know, I know some people go well, the Kahn Smythe guy would just win it every year. I don't think so. Like, I mean, Sam Bennett wouldn't have won the MVP this year.

It would have been, you know, but maybe Connor McDavid or somebody, it wouldn't have been Connor Hellebuck. Put it that way. Yeah, I'm completely, I'm completely fine with that. All right. Motion carried. Easy, peasy.

Let's get it fixed. Ian Lord. I'm a pissed off Bruins fan. My new theory without doing a liquor research is that Sweeney and Neely front office only works three days of the year. Trade deadline in the draft and day one to free agency. I bet other GM front offices can do the same. And he swore a little bit about the Bruins. So we're going to leave that part out.

He's asking if we can, if we can yell at GMs for being lazy. I think we've, I think we've done that. I think we've done our part there. I certainly know Mackin do has. This isn't even preaching at the choir. This is, this is preaching at the preacher here. I mean, this is, I'm, I've been banging this drum for, look, what do you, what do you want from NHL GMs?

Do you not understand how hard their job is? This is not like the NBA where, I mean, they don't, I, look, all I'll say is in defense of the NHL, NHL GMs and NBA GMs are completely tied with eight team trades that they've made this summer. So, look, I love, I, I, I appreciate, I appreciate Ian here. He is a Bruins fan. He, that should be his primary focus. It makes sense that he would view this through,

through that lens. The idea that the Bruins are somehow special because, because Sweeney and Neely seem like they have three days where they do anything and that's, and that's that. Brother, join the club. There are, there are 28 other teams out there that have,

that have a very similar complaint. It's just Jim Nill, Bill Zito, and Eric Tulski just do it all the work. 100%. And everybody else sits around. And by the way, way. From the Bruins fans that I know, do we want Sweeney and Neely working more days a week?

It sounds to me like you got 362 days where you're pretty, you're feeling pretty safe. My God. Three is better than, yeah. Would zero be better? Sure. But do we have any more? Do you have any more that you want to pick off? We got we actually got a lot of them. We have some great. We did. We got a, we got quite a lot. And I already closed my window. So I don't. We'll close with this one because it really does hammer home the point in the off season we're at. And we can thank those GMs for that. They want to just hang out in July and August.

That's ultimately that comes to the long. Always something else. Who's still on the board that you're curious about? Will anyone respect Daniel Sprong? That's it, baby. July 16th. That's the sprang cutoff. We got our episode title.

Will anyone respect? I think Daniel Sprong could do to respect Daniel Sprong. At least his, at least his, the Daniel Sprong is puffy is missed right now listening to this going, yes. Hell yeah. That's also how far, how far picked over. Oh, already weak pool has been is that we're already trying to convince themselves that Daniel Sprong can add some scoring on a third line. If Daniel Sprong signs with the Boston Bruins, we are taking credit. We made it happen.

I'll take it a step further. If Daniel Sprung signs with the Boston Bruins, emergency pod, we're doing it. Emergency pod and Sean will get a Daniel Sprung Bruins jersey. I'll get a, I'll get a Sprung Bruins jersey, and I'll make sure to lead the newsletter with it since I'm taking that over now. Oh, that's exciting. Just kidding.

All right, I think that about does it. Thank you, folks, for your questions. They all were great. We got playing them. I wish we could answer to all of them, but nobody wants to listen to a two and a half hour hockey podcast in the middle of June. Thank you folks anyways. Thank you, Sean McIndoo.

And we're off. We're out. The two of us will not be back. Someone else will be. The athletic hockey show returns on Monday and Thursday. But neither he nor I will be involved with this episode, which is quite a breaking protocol. So enjoy the time and we'll talk to you soon.