The Athletic Hockey Show - Why Connor Hellebuyck is a perfect fit for the Devils

Episode Date: October 26, 2026

The Boston Bruins are quietly sitting atop the Atlantic Division standings, once again defying the logic of their eventual decline. The Athletic’s own Fluto Shinzawa joins the show to discuss how the Bruins have gotten off to their great start. Before that, the guys break down why Connor Hellebuyck is in a perfect spot wth the New Jersey Devils and talk about Connor McDavid unbelievably upping his points pace from last week, now projecting for 252 over 84 games. Plus, a look into Flames goalie Devin Cooley’s incredible postgame interviews and his approach to the mental side of goaltending to close things out. Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Jesse Granger and Fluto ShinzawaExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside the athletics, Mark Lazarus and Jesse Granger for another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. Flood Ocean Zawa going to join us in a little bit to talk about the red hot Boston Bruins to open the season. But first, we got to reel it back a little bit, Jesse, because you were not able to join us on Friday as the biggest news on your, I don't know that it's your beat, but you're kind of sub-lane here. The goaltending world goes down on Friday, and you were nowhere to. to be found. I was actually, I actually flew to Dallas for that trade specifically. And then the Winnipeg Jets decided to make the trade an hour after I took off from Dallas. They, they had flown out the night before. I was, I was in Dallas for the Stars Jets game. It was a really good game.

It ended up going to overtime. And then, yeah, they flew out of town. And they were like, all right, we're no longer in the same city as Jesse Granger. Now let's do the Hellibuck trade. Engage Hellibuck Protocol. I used to feel that the Blackhawks had a drone that would just fly over my car when I was stuck in traffic on the Dan Ryan Expressway in Chicago. And that's when they would drop any biggest, and the biggest news, the biggest trades always happen when I was on the Dan Ryan. So I feel you. I've never been more pleased to have purchased the airplane Wi-Fi when the hell of up trade news was breaking while I was up there though. So I was at least I was able to follow along. And it was quite the saga too. It was like, he's getting traded, but we're not going to tell you

where. Now we're going to tell you where, but we're not going to tell you what for. And then like hours later, we finally got all the details. Being an insider just seems exhausting, doesn't it? Yes. Thank God nobody talks to me and tells me anything. Well, Jesse, so from those beginnings, I have to say, you did a heck of a job covering this because you put out a story over the weekend about Halebuck's fit with the devils. And it really puts a lot into perspective here.

And Sunny Meta talked a little bit about it and kind of cleared up, you know, we talked about a little bit on the emergency pod labs where he had talked about the volatility of goaltending and the difficulty of making a big bet there. and yet why Hellebuck was the guy he's comfortable making that kind of bet on. Jesse, you really went in depth on why, not just for someone who thinks that way about goaltending, but for someone who manages the New Jersey Devils, Hellebuck made a whole lot of sense for this bet. Yeah, I will say that I still don't fully buy it.

Like, I do think that they went into this season thinking that $2 million in goaltending was going to work. And then after a month of watching it not work, they were like, you know what? Maybe we should go trade for an awesome goalie. But it, like you said, if he was going to bet, if this type of front office that is very analytic space that relies on the numbers, I talk to Dom Lecision about it all the time. He doesn't want to spend money on goalies because they're so unpredictable. But there's one guy who is predictable. Like if you go through, Andre Vasselowski, his seasons go up and down, even though he's won multiple cups.

Sergei Babrovsky, his seasons go up and down more than maybe any great goalie we've ever seen. They don't for Connor Hellebuck. He is consistently excellent for basically his entire career. Last year was a bit of a down year, but even his down year is still positive goals saved above expected. And that was after having a knee surgery and seemingly rushing back to a team that was in desperate need of him to hold things together for him. And he still put up better stats than you'd expect in that situation. This guy, he has saved more goals above expected than any goalie in the goals saved above expected era since 2007.

And to me, what it is is Hellebuck doesn't have those games. He doesn't have as many of those games where he just takes over and makes 50 saves and, like, you can't beat him. What he does is he doesn't have the games where he gives up seven goals. And like, he does that better than any goalie

in the entire NHL. And it's why his goal saved above expected career numbers are just ridiculous when you look at them. Like, it is absurd how much better he is than everyone else. And it's because you can have a good month of goaltending and then blow it in two bad games. And that's just kind of the nature of that stat. And Hellebuck just doesn't have those games where he blows all of his

goaltending stats in one game. And I think it's because of how smart he plays the position. He stays in the center of his net. He doesn't venture very far out towards his post. He doesn't get outside of his blue paint. And it ends up, because he's so big and because he's so well positioned, shots that we say, well, that goal he had no chance. Well, they just hit him by happen.

because he's in a good spot and because he's big and because he knows where to position his body and he's so efficient with his movement. And I just think that that adds up over years and years of goaltending. And if you're a guy who doesn't really want to commit to a guy, it's like, that's the dude that fits exactly what you need. And now you're putting them on a team that's already one of the best that suppressing shots, suppressing scoring chances. Like, it just feels like hockey is the most random, fluky sport, but the devils are going

to be the least random, least fluky team in the league. They're just going to be, you know, you're going to score two or three goals against them, tops every single game. And that's a really good recipe for success if you're the devils. And it's going to make a lot of people want to come here to play with them. Well, that was a piece of the story that I really like, too, because Jesse, you hit on it in it. Like, I hear that stat, like the environment that suppresses chances, suppresses shots. Like, that's something that not all goalies like. A lot of goalies prefer rhythm. They want a pretty steady flow of like, I'm going to get a shot here, a couple shots here,

a couple shots here. I'm not going to go eight minutes without seeing a shot. And when I do, it's not going to be a rush chance because the team. team I play behind isn't, you know, pinning the opponent in the, uh, in their defensive zone the whole time and it's going to lead to something super high danger. Basically every goaltending stat is a Connor Hellebuck is a good stat, but you, you broke it down really well that like he's even above average in that category. Like if you broke it down by total volume, he still outperforms by quite a good margin. Yeah.

So I actually spoke with a couple goalie coaches and I was like, is there anything that like makes you think he is a better fit than other than the fact that he's just an awesome goalie. And they were like, I, they were like, I don't have numbers to back this up, but I feel like anecdotally when I watch Connor Hellebuck, he's awesome in games where he doesn't have a lot of volume. And that's unusual. So I was like, all right, let's, let's dig into the stats. And I, NHL stats and research helped me with the league averages on these, but it's pretty shocking. Like, when a goalie in the last, since Carter Hellebuck got in the league in 2015, when a goalie faces 30 or more shots, so a heavy workload night, the league average save percentage is 920. So it's like,

that's the league average is 920. When they face less than 30 shots, the league average is 899. So it is a like, and it's because of those goals that I just talked about where it's like, well, the goal he had no chance. Well, if you don't get a number, enough shots on goal to overcome those,

then you're not going to have the safe percentage. Now, meanwhile, Hellebuck, this is a 925 when he faces more than 30 shots. So he's got a five point advantage over the league. Obviously, he's still awesome. But when he goes under 30 shots, it's still a 912. And it's basically,

almost triple. His advantage over the league average almost triples in games where it's low volume. And the other stat that I brought up was the devils have lost more games than any team in the NHL while out shooting their opposition, 49 times in the last three years. The team that's done it, the fewest, the Winnipeg Jets. They've only lost 19 games in the last three years where they outshot their opposition. This guy is uniquely suited to sit back there and do nothing for 10 minutes. And then all of a sudden, it's a two-on-one or a breakaway and you need him to make a big save. He's just whether that's mental strength, whether that is his technique and his efficiency in the way he moves, there is something about this goalie.

And it's kind of poetic because it reminds me of another all-time great New Jersey devil goalie who gets, I feel like people talk down his legacy because he didn't have the most volume. But another goalie that's great at stopping a few amount of shots and not letting anybody score in New Jersey. Sounds like a bad news for the rest of the NHL. I mean, honestly, like the Carolina hurricanes are a much super. superior team in terms of their overall roster construction than the devils are. But I look at these devils now and the perfect goalie and the perfect fit and the perfect

situation. I mean, I can see them taking a run to the Metro Division here. Can't you, I mean, you know, Washington's a little underperform what we thought they were. Rangers are overperforming a little bit. But that division is kind of there for the taking. And, you know, New Jersey's advantage and goal now, well, that's the Achilles heel and theory of Carolina. So it's going to be a really interesting division stretch now, I think.

where do we think the devil's slot in, like to this division here now? Because it's obviously Carolina's one. And I've been saying Washington is it two. But at this point, like, the devils are off to a good start. Now they have Connor Hellebuck. You could talk me into as high as two for them in the Metro now. It's all going to come down to health, right? Like, I'm just terrified to make any proclamations with this team because it just seems like every year, the wheels fall off.

Like, if this team stays healthy, if you tell me that Hughes and Hamilton and these guys are going to have, they don't need to play 84. But if they're going to play most of the season, I think they are the second best team in this division. But that's a big if with the way things have gone over the last four or five years for this team. Well, when they get Quinn at the trade deadline, that's going to really come over the top, I think.

Sorry, Russo. Throw them up at one. Did you guys hear the Vancouver? Did you guys see the Vancouver fans chanting? He's not signing? Vancouver did great, man. Because, like, you know, they did, if they boot them all pregame,

they boot them during warmness, They boot him every time he touched the puck. They did his video and they highlighted what a great teammate and community guy he was. They cheered. They gave him a nice little ovation. They applauded that part and then went right back into twisting the knife on him. Like they, they, it wasn't nearly as fun and energetic as Ottawa was with Brady Kachuk. The hate wasn't there.

But I, you know, kudos to Vancouver fans, man. They had fun with it last night. They did it right. It was, I think, I don't know if it's more complicated or not, but it did feel less ugly on the way out for Quinn. And, you know, I also think the fact that Quinn was leaving. team that was bottom of the barrel that was clearly, you know, it's going to need a rebuild.

I don't know if that makes it any better for the fans, but I would think it's a different impact than a guy leaving a playoff team. And I think that's where you see the gap in those receptions. I thought it was perfect. That's a fun environment to play. I'm sure Quinn Hughes was expecting the worst. And he probably even thought it was funny for most of that game. I thought it was great.

Yeah. One more thing before we go to break here. And at some point, we're probably going to need to name this. this recurring segment on the show. Because at this point, Connor McDavid, the numbers are getting pretty crazy here, guys. Like,

he's doing things that have not been done since Wayne Gretzky here. Now on pace for 252 points this season, that is higher than it was last week when we talked about how it can't possibly continue. He's at eight goals, 25 assists, 33 points through his first 11 games. Gretzky, in his 215-point year,

had 720 and 27. So McDavid actually, like, comfortably ahead of this, of the 11 game pace on Gretzky. He's also doing the very Gretzky stat where he has more assists than anyone else in the league has points. So even if he hadn't scored a single goal,

he would lead in points. I think we need a name for this, like, update on McDavid, chasing Gretzky. Connor McData. Connor McData. I like that. Train to Wayne? There's something around Gretzky?

The greater one question, Mark? I think, go ahead. Jesse, you got one? No, no, no, the greater one is the one I'd go with. I like it. I'm tired of talking about Wayne Gretzky is the greatest of all time. We need a new greatest of all time. It's so funny, too, because, like, you know, we always make these jokes, like the first game of the season.

Someone scores a goal five minutes in you're like, oh, this guy's on pace for 200-something goals. Like, we're a month into the season and we're still making these jokes with McDavid. Like, it's not a joke anymore. He's actually, like, potentially doing this. And it's, you know, you look at Leon Drysad. You think Leon Drysaddle is like, dude, I'm here having the second greatest season, of the century and nobody's paying any attention to what I'm doing here. Like, he's on pace for like 180 points himself.

Yeah, the stat is... He's getting lapped by McDavid. Yeah, the stat is Leon Drysadles on pace to finish with 84 points less than Connor McDavid and Leon Drysadles on pace for 176 points. This must be what like Messing and Esa Teganin felt like back in the day. All right, well, fans listening, if you got an idea for what we can call this, Connor McDavid check in that. It seems like we're going to be doing maybe every week at this point here, at least for a while,

we will take your submissions and we'll ask our producer to put together a little sound for it, too, maybe something like that. And if Connor McDavid does keep this up, by the way, he's going to force our editors to reconsider. Did we need to republish the Hockey 100, which, by the way, is out October 27th. That's tomorrow, ranks the 100 greatest modern NHL players written by Sean McIndoo and Dan Robson, features a forward by Ken Hitchcock. Make sure you go get a copy again tomorrow October 27th. It is worth a read.

We're going to go to a break. Be right back with Fluto. All right, we are back and we are joined now live from Bruins practice by our Boston Bruins writer at the athletic Fluto Shenzawa. Fluto. You have been covering one of the hottest teams in hockey to start this year. What are you seeing? I'm seeing stuff, Max, that I did not expect seeing in terms of, okay, they had a good year

last year. They do okay in one round against Buffalo. but clearly not championship roster. And yes, they bring in J.J. Petrka, big piece in the offseason. But not really in terms of big reinforcements did they make in the off season. But, yeah, it's been first and foremost, it's been a goaltending story. And no surprise just because Jeremy Swayman is, that's Vesna Trophy, finalist, top three, top five, whatever. there's certainly been games that Jeremy has goalied the opposition.

And what that's done, guys, is it's let the other, the forwards, the defensemen, the special teams catch their breath and say, okay, let's lean on the goalie now, but then let's get our stuff going. So it's, you look at some of the numbers, yes, the goals for us here is something at 71%, which is best in show by far. and the expected is a little bit lower, but it's not just Paper Tiger here. It's a lot of things in sync.

So, yeah, this has been a surprise. It's interesting to say that because, like, your natural tendency when you see a team start like this that you don't expect is to be skeptical. And you can point to a lot of things. They are the highest PDO team in the league by a mile, the highest five-on-five, say, percentage team by a mile. Their schedule has been pretty weak.

really beaten a lot of like top tier teams. They're beating like, you know, fringe playoff teams and bad teams. But I mean, 9-2-1 is 9-2-1. How sustainable does this feel to you? Is this is this a hot start that's going to fade or is this a team that's kind of coming together? You would think, last, there will be some regression just because, as you mentioned, those numbers, they are hard to sustain. But if you look at what they did last year, that was hard to sustain too. They were above expected at both ends pretty significantly. Again, That's the goaltending. That's players like geeky, middle stat, Zaka having career years when it comes to goal scoring.

But they've really reinforced with some younger players with a number two goalie, Michael DiPietro. And they've been able to backfill really well here. So yes, I expect that there will be some kind of pullback in terms of performance. But I look at their schedule in November. They have two road games. That's it. They're at home for most of November.

They've got a two-game road trip coming up. That's it. It's very manageable. So these are points that they're happy to bank right now for when that stepback does occur. But the way that they're playing, I'm a big believer in confidence that, okay, if you get five, eight, ten games behind you in terms of wind,

that does a lot for players and for guys and say, okay, hey, maybe we're not playing our best in the first period, but we know we've come back in the third period. Our goalie has given us a chance, and then we get to our game in the third period. I think there's belief in that room, and that does matter. Fluto, you mentioned off the top some things you weren't expecting to see.

I know for me from afar, those things are Fraser Mitten's continued evolution and becoming a legit top six center for them and how quickly James Higgins has been able to kind of adjust to the NHL and make a difference. Which are those things do you think is, which are you more surprised by and which is making a bigger impact here for the Bruins so far? Equal, Max. There are good observations in terms of Fraser. It was no doubt number three center all day based on what he did last year. Good, responsible, especially for a young.

center to be there in that three hole and killing penalties, second power play. Okay, question was, was the skating. And he raised his hand and said, that's never been a strength. Could he skate well enough to be a number two center? I was talking about this with him in the preseason. He played over 100 games last year. You consider rookie games, regular season playoffs. Then he goes to World Championship with Canada. And that's high mileage play for young. guy. So he felt his skating was out of whack by the end. So he did two things in the off-season. First, he worked with the strength guy, but then second with a physiotherapist. And he said that really helped in terms of alignment, just whatever, I'm not sure about the specifics,

but just in terms of making his body right mechanically, that everything was aligned, he was feeling good. So maybe that's part of it. Maybe that's one bucket. The other bucket, he's such a young guy. that all of this is still coming together. He's getting stronger. He's getting bigger. So that's the second bucket. And then the third is just the experience, right? You look around and he's a smart player.

So a year of experience that only adds to the hockey sense. So you put all these layers together and to the eye, yeah, he's skating a whole lot better. So that instantly puts him in that top two center right now. He's been playing with Ustininov and Geeky. It's been a good line. He scores the winning goal the other night by being in front. So good on him. That looks like a long-term number two center.

Hagen's 19. He's had four goals, and three of them, I looked up the other night. It's within seven feet, five feet, four feet, right? And we all have this perception, and there is merit to it in terms of being an elite skater, elite thinker, a high-skilled guy, well, what can those kids get away with at the program, at BC, wherever, you can play on the perimeter just because you're so good, you're so much faster and so much more skilled, that you can score from the outside. You don't have to get to the interior. And he did that at BC. Marco Sturm, the other night said he would score from the dry-sidal spot down low on the right elbow.

So maybe that's not there for him just because he's kind of, he's still a smallish guy, 186 pounds. But the thing that's really impressed everyone is he can get to inside ice. He's right there. He's brave. He can hold his ground. He had a really good play against Heiskening of all defensemen in Dallas, getting stick position, getting inside ice, and then being strong enough to deter that stick check by a, terrific defensemen and scored net front goal. So all these things, okay, he's he's somewhat

sheltered, third line, right wing, but yeah, he's checked a lot of boxes. So yes, those two contributions have gone a long way in terms of, okay, this is still Pashtunach, this is still McAvoy, this is still Swamen, it's still geeky, but these guys can can be there and deliver when those top guys aren't going. David Posternock has always been one of my favorite guys to talk to in this league. He's a very off-kilter kind of guy. He's unfiltered. He's very interesting.

What is the personality of this team with him as a captain for the first time? Yeah, David, I think everybody would say that it's not a traditional captain in terms of serious. You look at the last, well, I think I would put Brad in the last three captain, Marshan, Bergeron, Charra, all established veteran guys, kind of serious in nature. Brad, maybe not as much so, but, you know, you think of captain and you think of that traditional leader personality. David's not really like that. He's kind of this good-natured. Everybody likes him. I think that's part of the appeal there in terms of the personality that no matter how old you are, veteran guy, rookie, everybody likes David.

All the fans love him. So that makes him so magnetic in terms of personality. So he's, yes, when it's, when necessary, he'll be, he'll be stern. He'll give it to guys. But I think the thing that really makes him captain here and why he's successful is, is the personality. It's just he likes being here at the rink. No bad days. whatever it is, he'll shake it off.

You'll see in his game, he'll try and push the pace. He'll commit turnovers. He'll make mistakes. But then next shift, he scores. So, yeah, it's been a good fit in terms of captain for him. I got to ask you about Jeremy Swayman. And you mentioned the confidence, like playing with confidence. And I don't watch them every day.

But when I watch the Bruins, I notice I feel like his not just making the saves, but I feel like he brings confidence to this team and helps them in other. ways other than making saves. The way he handles rebounds, I feel like he's as positionally sound as there is in the league. How much does his impact go beyond just making the saves and giving the team confidence and the fact that pucks aren't going to end up in bad spots? I'll defer to you on this, Jesse, in terms of technical precision. But I can't think of many guys that play the position as smoothly, as efficiently, as gracefully as Jeremy does. You look at him, the stance, he's a great skater, he competes, he's square, he's smart, he knows how to read plays.

Technically, everything is there for Jeremy. The one thing, and it's gotten better over the years, is the puck play. His touches just aren't as clean as some of the other goalies, and he'll get himself and his teammates into trouble at times. But I look at him and say, boy, this is right off the factory line. terms of how goalies can play the position. He'll challenge when necessary. He's really dialed that down over the years. He used to be way out at the top of the paint,

even outside of the paint to be challenging and closing down angles. And that did work for him early in his career, but he's really become more patient, more poised, and more trusting in his stuff, which is top shelf in terms of what he can do. So, and at his age, there's still more growth in his game as he gets more experienced and more comfortable and more confident. And he's got, he's, he's fiery, right? We saw the fight with Vasilevsky and he'll give it to guys whenever they're in his crease.

And he's got good help too now with D.P.A. Tro. So, hey, goal attending has always been a strength, whether it's Jeremy, Allmar, go back to Tuka, the Halak. It's been probably the the number one thing that's made them successful. And with Jeremy there, that's a, and you look at what he went through in terms of, it was a little dicey with arbitration and contract and missing camp and you understand why everything went poorly for him that year after he signed his deal. But that's, that's all done. And there's still growth in his game. The Boston Bruins roll on.

Fluto, thanks so much for joining us this morning. You got. All right, guys, so the Boston Bruins have fascinated me for like almost 20 years now. They won the Stanley Cup in 2011. They've not won anything since. But year after year after year, they're always in the mix, right? If you're a Bruins fan, you're getting your money's worth every year. Like, they had that little two-year retool 10 years ago.

They're like the prototype for how to retool on the fly. They went out, they got Charlie McAvoy and all this, and they're doing well. This has been my parlor game question for a long time now. Would you rather, since 2010, be a Blackhawks fan and have three Stanley Cups and have just 10 years of misery since? Or would you rather be a Bruins fan and have much less to show for it? But every single year, you're getting a full regular season's worth of excitement.

You're getting into the playoffs. They missed the playoffs three times since then, just three times since they won the cup. Everyone always tells me flags fly forever and the answer is Chicago. They're probably right. But I genuinely think if you're a Bruins fan, you've had as good a run as anybody in the league now for almost 20 years. I think the three championships makes this one like too easy of Chicago. But I think there's a very good version of this.

Those batters are yellowing up in the rafters, Max, is all I'm saying. There's a very good version of this question to be done with like the St. Louis Blues, who won one championship. And we're good for a while, but not at the level that Chicago was and also don't now have the hope that Chicago has, right? because Chicago went to the extremes at both ends, and you had your three championships, and now you have all this hope because you have three top three picks

on your roster right now too. To me, that one's Chicago all day, but I would maybe lean Boston if you asked me St. Louis or Boston, which is funny because the Blues beat the Bruins and their Stanley Cup final to win that cup. It's funny, like this is almost blast for me to say, but championships are almost overrated as a fan.

Like the immediate release of it is like, like the Knicks won the NBA title this year. It was amazing, like holy crap. And it's like, it's already like, no, I missed. That's already over. And I'm moving on now like, oh, they're 0 and 3. What's going on? Whereas to get like seven to nine months of enjoyment and excitement and engagement

out of your team, year after year after, to never really flag, to never really fall back, to never have to go through the misery that some of these teams are going through, I feel like, I know flags fly forever, but it's almost, you're getting more fulfillment out of being a fan with fewer titles than you are with more titles. The team that I'm the biggest fan of in any sport is the Denver Broncos. And we did this. We won the Super Bowl with Peyton Manning and then broke the NFL record for the most seasons missing the playoffs immediately after winning a Super Bowl.

And I would say for the first like three or four seasons after, I could not care less. It's like whatever. The team sucks. We don't have a quarterback. But we won a Super Bowl with Peyton Manning. I do not care. After three or four seasons, it starts to, I wish I was a Boston Bruins fan. This is what I'm saying, right?

It's like every Blackhawks fan will tell you the 2010, 2010, 2013, 2015, some of the most seminal moments of their live as a fan. You never, you never lose that. Like, I'm a Mets fan. I was six years old when the ball went through Buckner's legs. That's my first vivid childhood memory. And I'll never forget that.

But it's been 40 freaking years since then. And it's like, I just, you know, the 2024 Mets season where they went to the NLCS, had this amazing regular season, all this fun stuff was happening. They didn't win a title, But I think back on that season as fondly as I will, any other season, the championship, I'm serious. For a fan, they're kind of almost overrated.

As a player, their legacy defining. But as a fan, you just want to have a reason to care day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. Bruins fans have had that. They'll tell you they should have won more Stanley Cups, given the talent they've had, and the competency which they've been run. But I'm telling you, Bruins fans have had really good for a really long time. Absolutely. And you keep waiting for it to go in the tank.

And it looked like it was, right? Like the year that they got Higgins, you were like, yep, they just couldn't sustain it forever. And then they bounce back this fat. And we'll see where they finish in this one. You know, like I didn't come into the year. I thought they were kind of like a fringe wildcard team. Like they were going to be somewhere seven to ten in the Eastern Conference.

We'll see how they keep it up. But I think even if they finished as a wild card team, you're looking at them and you're saying, I don't think I want to play a team like this in the first round, a team that has Jeremy Swayman, a team that has David Posternock, a team. that is Charlie McAvoy. They are a tough out for anybody, and they have gotten back to that in a hurry. Part of it is what Fluto mentioned at the end is it's the goaltending. Bob Essence, the goaltending coach in Boston is, there probably isn't a better one in the

NHL. And that's not going to take a bad team and make them good, but it's going to allow a team to punch like one level above where the talent for the team is every year. And it doesn't matter, like he said, Tuka Rath. I mean, you go all the way back to Tim Thomas. Like this team, it does not matter who the goalie is. They're good. And it allows this team to, if they're a C team, they're a B team that year because the

goaltending is so good. And over a decade, like, it just adds up. It's hard for this team to be bad when the goaltending is as good as it's been for, like, our lifetime. And I love the way Fluto put it where like, yeah, right now they're overperforming as goaltending, but they're overperforming at the perfect time because it's allowing this young team to grow and get confidence while also getting a bunch of wins and banking a bunch a point. So even when that goaltending comes crashing down a little bit, which it won't go, it won't

plummet, but it's not going to be a 950 at five on five for the rest of the year, you'll have a team that's a little more competent, a little more comfortable, a little more secure in what they can do on the ice that because those goalies have been so good early on. Yeah. No, it's a good, great start and a good spot to be for the Boston Bruins going forward here. Let's take a quick break right there. We'll be right back. All right. We are back. And Jesse, I just don't think we've really done enough goalie talk on this episode of the Fletakaki show. So I want to go back a little bit to something that happened a week ago that I think we probably should have talked about then. But now there's been enough kind of recurrences that we have to talk about it. And that's

Devin Cooley. Let's hear this answer that he gave. Let's hear the OG, the classic, the one that started everything from Devin Cooley. I wonder about 34 saves in your night, just how you felt and what you saw as you looked out from your crease. Yes, I felt nothing. The problem with me is that I have a lot of fun playing, but when I start having too much fun, it makes me into from an unconscious goalie to a conscious goalie, and my conscious brain is really bad at playing goalie. Like TV timeouts in between periods, I'm like, don't smile, don't talk to anyone, just focus on your game, let your unconscious brain do it, and it was great. Okay, I love that, and it does sound like pretty, I can totally understand how that would be the case. He's talking about

getting into a flow state. I'm not surprised to hear this. I know it sounds a little like, especially in the tone of voice he's saying at it, but I think there's something to what he's saying here, Jesse. He's a genius. He is a comedic genius also because the way he delivers it is so funny. The I felt nothing line is as good as it gets in terms of delivery.

But as a goalie nerd and as a, so I'm a big golfer and I and I've read seven or eight golf psychology, like the mental side of golf, most of them written by Bob Rottella who works with all the golfers on the PGA tour. And I'm obsessed with this stuff. So these are like my two worlds colliding with each other. And I'm watching that interview from Devin Cooley. And he's talking about being an unconscious goalie.

And I'm just like, yes, he is speaking my language. I love this also because I'm a weirdo like Devin Cooley, apparently. But like you said, there is some genuine wisdom in this. I wrote a story on it. I spoke with a mental performance coach who has worked with professionals. athletes and elite amateurs for like 40 years. And he was, he was, his, his line was, his, his line was, this guy's telling you the holy grail in this, in this quote, even though most of the internet just kind of thinks it's like funny and, and, and, and charismatic. Quirky. Yeah,

there is like, yeah, there is genuine wisdom in this. It is what every athlete is trying to do. I spoke with Vasilevsky. I spoke with Jake Ottinger. And they were both like, yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's exactly right. Now, they didn't say it in the words that Devin Cooley says it in because no one does, but you are constantly trying to take yourself out of, you are. the conscious thought. Like, I'm putting my blocker here. My feet are here. Let me get my, let me get my skate into this position. Oh, here comes this guy. Like, you want to turn your brain off. Let it happen automatically. And the science behind it is your, your body reacts faster when you do that. Like, you conscious thought interrupts your body's natural flow of reaction time to

make your body react slower. And it's why you get into slumps. Like, things start going poorly and you start thinking, what am I doing poorly? What do I need to do better? And then it just makes you play worse and worse and worse. And right now he's in the opposite of that. I talked to Spencer Knight about it last week. He said, Andrew Mangapani showed it to him. He's like, you're a weird goalie. You'll like this. And I said, yeah, he's 100% spot on. But then he goes, he doesn't matter what your line of work is, that stuff matters. He goes, if you're a writer, if you're a reporter, if you're a broadcaster, if you're a banker, if you're a, a constructor, you just, you know, you get out there. And all of a sudden, he said, like, you're getting that flow seat. And you're

just making spreadsheets. You're not even thinking about it anymore. And he's right. Like, it doesn't matter. Like, when we're writing stories, sometimes it just flows, right? And that's, the more you think about a story and how you're going to construct it, the worst that story is going to be almost every single time. And this goes beyond just goalies in hockey, too. I mean, Max and I have had the pleasure of covering prolonged rebuilds with lots of young players trying to figure out their way in the league. And you always hear one thing. They're thinking too much out there, right? They're thinking about, okay, here's the situation, what am I supposed to do in systems? Where am I supposed to go from here? And if you do that, you're going to play poorly because you're hesitating because you're

giving that pause. When you stop thinking, you just do, that's when you've made it. That's when you've entrenched yourself as an NHL veteran who's capable of playing in that flow state and reaching a different level. You're so spot-on about that, too, that it stretches professions. Like, my dad used to tell me, when I was starting out and I finally kind of started to get into a rhythm. He was like, it's great. Like, you can't tell that you're writing so much anymore. And it's like, I was like, what do you mean by that? But it's true. Like, if I ever run into something where I can't figure out how I want to say something, the answer is just, just say it. Like, whatever you're thinking, just say it. Don't stop thinking about how you want to say it and

just say it. It's kind of been a magical trick that I've learned and it's, it's right along these same lines. And I feel like a lot of goalies have talked about this in the past. It is, like Jesse said, it's the presentation of Devin Kuhli. He's so animated about it. And we're so used to these goalies being so like monotone and boring, especially postgame. And you talk to a goalie post game, it's like the worst interview you can do. Every goalie sucks post game. And that's what Knight tells me. He's like, that interview was like, wow, damn, I got a lot more than pucks deep, huh? Because you don't expect that when you're talking to any player, but especially a goalie and especially after a game, you don't get that enthusiasm, that excitement. They're usually kind of in that come down

phase. So for him to be just like having the time of his life and in opening up in this big, a bullient way. I think that's why it's landed so hard with so many people. That, that flow state is like everyone has felt it. That's why it's such a cool thing. Like, that's why I was so excited to write that story is like, this is not, there are some things that only an elite professional athlete at the highest level. There are some feelings that only they experience. Like, we will never know what that feels like. But like the flow state, we all, like everyone in the world, whether, no matter what you do, the example I gave in the story, and it's like the most used example is driving.

And it's like, because there's not a person on earth that drives that doesn't completely understand the metaphor of when you were learning how to drive and you were thinking, consciously thinking about how to do everything. How hard do I press the gas pedal? How hard do I press the brake? When do I hit the blinker? You're a complete disaster at it. And then you learn all those things.

And then your body starts doing them automatically while you're listening to a podcast. You're listening to music. You're talking to your friend. You don't even realize it. And you're an infinitely better driver. And then, like, sometimes you get to work and it's like, I don't even remember that drive. And that was the best you've ever driven in your life. Like the smoothest turns you've ever made.

It's the best you've ever driven. And then the example that the performance coach gave me is like, and then a police cruiser pulls up behind your car and you enter the conscious state again. And oh, am I centered in the lane? How, you're looking at your speed limit for the first time in 30 minutes driving. You haven't looked at your speed limit, but now you are. And you're thinking about where your hands are on the steering wheel. And all of a sudden, you suck. it driving again. And that's literally the best example you can possibly give that everyone in the

world has felt. All right. So let's go to another clip then here because this continued from Devin Cooley. I feel completely like in control of my mind, if that makes sense. I don't know if control is the right word. I think just whatever my mind throws my way, I feel like I'm in a good state to handle. Even when I go home, like it's like I go home and I'm not really thinking. about much. I'm just kind of like reading with my rabbit and kind of hanging out. And nothing like crazy. I'm just trying to settle the nervous system. And it's working really well. And the team is playing excellent too. And that makes it a lot easier for me. All right. First of all, reading with my rabbit. I mean, that might be my new fantasy team name. That's fantastic. My daughter does that with

their guinea pigs. Second of all, my question is, yeah, for real. My question is, how much longer are we going to get flow state, Devin Cooley in the interviews? Like, is he going to start feeling like He has to keep living up to these here because there was a third one that we could have played too from this week. So he just kind of keeps dropping banger interview after banger interview. I hope we keep getting flow state interviews from Devin Cooley as well. He was also lying because he was like, I don't, I just read. I don't do anything crazy. No, he does do something crazy.

This is the guy who does algebra for fun. Like there are videos that his partner has posted on social media that is just him hanging out with the rabbit doing. super complicated algebra for no reason, just for fun. So he is wrong about that. He is doing crazy things at home. I'm just worried it's going to end up in the podcast. And we don't need another goalie podcast. We already got jesse's.

Well, that's what today. That's basically what today was. I would say the news cycle warranted it. And look, if Jeremy Swamen wasn't playing so well for the Bruins, he wouldn't have taken up so much of the Bruins conversation, but he is. I think the answer to when we're going to stop getting flow state, Jeremy Swamen, or sorry, Devin Cooley interviews, is when he leaves the flow state.

Because you look at his last three games, his safe percentage is 944, 946. The dude is in the flow state. Let him go. And who are the teams that they've beaten it? I know Detroit's one of them, but it's like Carolina and Minnesota, right? Yes, yes, Carolina, Minnesota, Detroit. He's shout out of good teams. The key now is I want this same level of insight, analysis, and enthusiasm when he gives up six goals in the game. I want to hear and be like, oh, man, it was terrible out there.

I was thinking so much and I couldn't do anything out there. And all I could do is like, I'm thinking, where are my feet? Where am I? Where's my rabbit? I want the same level of enthusiasm when it's after a bad night. We didn't play the full clip, but he did say he was like, when I, when I'm thinking, when I'm playing a conscious game, I get behind the play and I let seven goals in. And like people are like, oh, that's funny. But like literally in the game before that, he did let seven goals into the Colorado.

last. Great stuff from Devin Cooley. And he has a standing invite to appear on the athletic hockey show. Oh, God, yes. Anytime he wants, Devin Cooley, you are welcome here. That is going to do it for us.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show. Sean Jantilly and Sean McIndoo are back on Wednesday. They'll be joined by Jansen Denick to talk the Edmonton Oilers for a bit. I'll be back Thursday for our live episode. We'll talk to you then.