The Athletic Hockey Show - Why did Team USA pick Jackson Lacombe over Lane Hutson?

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

There has been an outbreak of unfortunately timed injuries around the NHL as the Olympics get closer and closer, with Team Sweden being hit hard by injuries, Canada and Finland missing important pieces and Seth Jones having to pull out for Team USA on Wednesday. Hailey and Sean discuss why Jackson Lacombe of the Anaheim Ducks was selected over Lane Hutson, and Julian McKenzie joins to chat about the Ottawa Senators and Linus Ullmark’s leave of absence from the team and Hailey and Sean discuss the PWHL player poll.Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleWith: Julian McKenzieExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometTake our listener survey: http://theathletic.com/survey26Watch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What's up, everyone? It's Haley Salvean and Sean Gentilly here with you for another episode of the Athletic Hockey show. Today we're going to spend some time talking about the unfortunately timed injuries around the NHL's Olympics. Get closer and closer. Why Jackson-Lacombe over Lane Hudson? We'll chat about that shortly. Then Julian McKenzie is going to join us, chat about the Ottawa Senators, and Linus Allmark's leave of absence from the team.

Maybe we'll get him to plug his book Black Aces that's coming out in about a week now. Very exciting for our friend Julian. But before all that, let's bring in Sean Gentilly. What's up? Are you? Do you have a book coming out soon? Do you want to plug any of your projects? You know, I don't.

I don't, I don't appreciate the implication. Everybody else has a book coming out. Julian, maybe the other person on this podcast. I'm not I'm not actively writing a book at this moment that's a okay

you're very very sneaky yeah I'm just I'm just trying I don't know I'm just hosting the show trying not to get replaced by Jackson Lecombe which is apparently always an option if Bill Guerin has

anything to do with it as we all know NHLers are returning to the Olympics for the first time since 2014, but some players, it's very sad. Some players have been waiting for this chance. Now dealing with injuries at like the worst possible time. Timing is getting short. The NHL shutting down after February 5th.

But as you mentioned, Sean, let's start with a big one. Seth Jones, he's officially out for Team USA. He has not played since January 2nd. Anaheim Ducks defender, Jackson Lacombe, has been named to the team as a replacement. Rising Star through USA hockey, 25 years old, 6'2, 208 pounds, like all these things going in the right direction for Jackson Lachon, but still a lot of people very upset and surprised that it wasn't laid Hudson.

What do you think, Sean? I do want to talk about Seth Jones just for one second. Everybody can feel good about the fact that he won a Stanley Cup last year. If the Panthers don't get that done, say there's like an alternate universe where the Panthers trade for Seth Jones, don't win the Stanley Cup. Then this season starts and Seth Jones, you know, gets hit by a shot in his upper body during the winter class

and misses out on the Olympics. We would be talking about one of the all-time bad luck runs for anybody because Seth Jones has been a good player for a long time. USA hockey loves him. He's a good guy. He's spoken at length about how important it is for him to play meaningful games, right? Whether it's in the Stanley Cup playoffs or in the Olympics

and he hasn't really had the chance. I'm glad that he's got that steely cup ring in his back pocket because if you wouldn't have, I think yesterday's news would have been even more, even more depressing for him. On the replacement side of things, man, the dialogue surrounding Lane Hudson is always wild. I feel bad to some extent for Jackson Lacombe because he's getting caught in some of the crossfire. fire here, right? He's a really good player on his own, right? Obviously, replacing Seth Jones. He was Billy Garen's pick. We can talk about the merits of Wayne Hudson. He's an incredible player, but I think what we need to do before any of that is laid down the fact that Jackson Lacombe

is really, really good. This is a second round pick who is like shot up in everybody's estimation over the last couple years. I think he pays for playing in Anaheim. I, I, I, I think he gets dinged in the public eye to some extent for that. But I'm not surprised by this. He played at Worlds last year. He's having another really, really good season. I talked to people about him after last season. He's one of those guys that scouts and analytics departments agree on.

You know what? I had a scout that I trust tell me over the summer. I don't want you to think they're the same player, but Jake Sanderson and Jackson Lecombe are a lot closer than you think. I mean, that's a pretty solid, a pretty solid recommendation. So I think it does start there to some extent, right? Like, we need to lay down the facts and say that Jackson Lecombe is a pretty good player in his own right, before we have the Lane Hudson discussion. Well, I don't think anyone's saying Jackson Lecombe is bad.

Oh, people absolutely are. They're not bad. Well, those aren't people who are sharing, like, opinions based in fact. I think, I think it's because it involves Lane Hudson, who's, who's such an unesthetically pleasing player who plays for a marquee team with a gigantic fan base who's on the in the team itself is obviously on the upswing. I think also Lane Hudson to some degree has been disrespected over the last couple years, whether it's whether it is by you know, team USA or whoever else. So I think there is like this underlying, you know, tone to Lane Hudson

discourse on the internet that leads people to, you know, stake out even particularly irrational positions. But, man, I think when you look at it a little bit deeper, is Lane Hudson's higher than Jackson-Lacombs? Like, absolutely. 10 years or now... Sure, but we're also talking about an injury replacement for Seth Jones. We're not talking about replacing Quinn Hughes with Jackson-Lacombe. To play the devil's advocate, we are seeing like one player out and a player with a similar build or playing stuff. or a similar puzzle piece being put in the lineup instead. So if the reasons why, like, and look, so I understand if you're USA hockey fan

and you took issue with the Seth Jones selection in and of itself because you wanted more skill on the back end or whatever, and sure, you're going to be upset again because it's like, well, you had a chance to correct this wrong and bring in another skilled player because you need to score goals at the Olympics. I get it. I do. But like, this is very clearly Bill Guerin and the USA. hockey brain trust saying, okay, we need to get some more like size and defense and two-layability

in with what we lost in Seth Jones. And Jackson Lacombe checks that box. He and Lane Hudson are very different players. Lane Hudson is the more like offensively dynamic skilled guy. But that's clearly not what they were looking for in this injury replacement or in that roster spot in the first place having selected Seth Jones. Yeah. And I don't mean to slag. Lane Hudson either. The dude has a plus 12 net rating, right? Like he is a Norris candidate this year. No one is slagging anyone. It's just, this is what Bill Huren wanted to do. That is a fact. Lane Hudson, and he's a better defensive player this year than last. So all credit to him. But when you look at it, and Hale, you said this, I mean, Jackson-Locombe 6-2, I think that makes him

alone, you know, an attractive candidate for Bulgarian in Team USA. But there's certain things under the hood where this that make this decision make even more sense. Like Lane Hudson, he allows tons and tons of zone entries. This is according to Corey Snyder's zone tracking data. Tons of zone entries on Lane Hudson. Now does he prevent goals at a disproportionate rate despite those zone entries against him, absolutely.

But teams are getting chances against him, right? And he is whether he's good at mitigating that risk factor that's part of his game, but, you know, opponents are gaining the zone against him at a really, really high rate. Not the case with Jackson Lecombe. Jackson Lecombe elite at puck retrievals and elite in zone exits. These are the kind of things when you're talking about it, maybe a third pair in an international tournament.

I think these are things that are attractive. And Jackson Lecombe, again, you know, his production maybe is a bit down from last season, but this is a guy who's shown some real, like, high-end skating ability, high-end, you know, it projects as a guy who's maybe not going to be a Lane Hudson-level producer down the line, but close enough to it. I mean, this is a really, really good player. And I think you can pretty fairly and pretty convincingly argue that he's, you know, certainly a viable choice given what Garron was faced with. This is not leaving Adam Fox off the roster entirely. This is not, you know, disrespecting Jason Robertson to some degree.

this is this of all the controversial bilgarian decisions this is the one to me that makes the most sense yeah i didn't yeah i feel like i agree with you i didn't have a huge problem with it again because i don't i didn't see a world in which bill garron was going to say okay never mind let's actually go get some skill instead like when it's seth jones going out you think they're going to go and grab a comparable guy and jackson lecombe hits those marks and he's a guy who's like been in the u.sa hockey space for a while. played at worlds last year. And that matters. He had two goals at last year's world

championships, one gold for the first time in a long time. Like that kind of stuff matters to USA hockey. He's been there, done that. In a way, he's only 25 years old. And he's been like a rising star through the American hockey ranks. So I, yeah, you can take issue and we can debate whether or not they should be going for more skill

on the blue line. Sure, I think that's a totally different debate than the one we're having here because it's like very clear what they were trying to do. And if Quinn, if Quinn Hughes or Zacharansey gets hurt tomorrow, then we can have the Lane Hudson discussion. But yeah, for for now, this makes enough sense. Yeah. Not to play devil's ad, the kit for Bill Garan because I thought the Adam Fox cut sucked. Uh, not interested for Jason Robertson, um, but in the Jack and Lecombe case, I'm like, yeah, I see the vision. I get it. It's pretty good. Um, okay, very quickly, before we move on and we get to Julian McKenzie, he's going to join us here.

shortly. Are we worried for Team Sweden? I think we're past the point of being worried. We're like, we're going to like do it 23 in me and see if I have some Swedish ancestry. Maybe they'll give me a call. Can I get a passport in time for this? Like, maybe I could be on the team. This is incredible. Here's some of the injury list. It's Jonas Brodine, Minnesota Wilde, Leo Carlson, you know, superstar young, duck center, Yol Erickson Eck, which Russo did say he should be ready in time for the tournament. But still, like, this is just the name, these are the list of players who are currently hurt right now.

Victor Hedman, Eric Carlson, Gabriel Landisog. Oh, hey, William Neelander's, uh, is it, his hip or his groin's hurting him again? It's a groin. It's a groin thing. There was a problem earlier in the season and is now puff back up. That is not trending positively for them. Where the leaves? Oliver Ekman Larson.

He left last night. So that's a brand new one on the Swedish injury list. It's a good thing they have, like, depth and players that there were some, like, maybe egregious, according to fans, snubs. So maybe now we'll see Simon Edginson. Come on down. The Olympics. Yeah. You know who they can't replace?

Leo Carlson. William Nealander. William Nealander. Like, I see the defensive depth. I think you can plug in guys like Edvenson and Ampas Lindelham and, you know, Matthias Akon potentially. Like they have guys on the on the blue line if it comes to that. But Leo Carlson was one of the early seasons.

Like he was playing at an MVP level for the first huge 30, 35 games for the Anheim Ducks. He was fantastic. And then he had a thigh injury that I think was, you know, nagging him that he ended up having a procedure on. so he might be out. The idea of A, Leo Carlson not being in the Ducks lineup, that's a huge issue. His lack of, and his production had dipped before the procedure too. So I think that's a big part of the reason we've seen the ducks take a tumble down the standings. But I think the idea of adding Leo Carlson, who profiles is that like number one two-way high-end productive center to the Swedish lineup, that was the thing that they were missing.

That was that was the piece that they'd missed for the last, you know, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, even at, even at, even at, even at, even at, even at, even at, even at, even at four nations, right? So the fact that he made that leap as a, as a, as a 20-year-old player is what made them super duper interesting to me. We knew they had the blue line. We knew they had guys like Nealander and, and, and, and, and, and the idea that you had that young, you know, alpha dog kind of dude at the top of the lineup is, is, is what is what really made them scary and what should have made them a legit gold medal, uh, candidate. Now it seems like, you know, you know, you know, you know, they're hopeful to some degree that he's going to be back, but

timeline's not. Leo Carlson, no, they're not. They're not. That's the update that I was going to share. Great. The Swedish head coach says that Brodine and Carlson are unlikely to play for team Sweden at the Olympics. He said this on Tuesday afternoon, I believe.

He said, well, give it a few more days to see if anything extraordinary happens, but we are currently operating under the assumption that they will not be playing at the Olympics. Yeah. And that's, just a huge, huge blow for Sweden. It looks like,

um, head men has been back on the ice, according to this update, still hasn't played. Yeah. He hasn't played since December 9th. He had surgery on his elbow. Like this is,

these are not minor things. Even the guys that are coming back, even the guys that they expect back, Gabriel Landisg, players like that, um, they're coming back from serious injuries. These aren't just minor things, whether they're in the lineup or not.

So, yeah, I think, to me, it takes Sweden. You can't remove them from the discussion, but I think they go from being a truly, truly a viable threat to, you know, something wild would need to happen for them to be on top when all said and done. And it's disappointing. Yeah. I could have seen a Sweden, Canada, Olympic gold medal game. but now maybe it'll be Canada versus Finland or something

not Canada USA Canada versus Canada versus Italy Yes Who's to say that would be great for me Throw Spain in there All of my heritage I'm anti-Italy I'm anti-Italy for this tournament

because Frankie Carrado is not Not part of the mix He'll be at home with his popcorn Instead of the cross box By his choice Sorry, that was rude. That joke's not funny. All right, let's take a break.

We've got to get to Julian McKenzie. He's going to join us next to chat a bit about the Ottawa Senators. That's coming up next on the Athletic Hockey Show. Before we get back to the show, you listen to us now. We want to hear from you. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to the athletic.com slash survey 26. Three lucky entries will win a $100 Amazon gift card too.

So whether you're a longtime listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Go to theathletic.com slash survey 26. That's theathletic.com slash survey 26. The link is also in our episode description. All right. We are back on the athletic hockey show. And our friend Julian McKenzie joins us now to chat a bit about the Ottawa senators. He's got a book coming out too.

Sean doesn't have a book coming out. It's been established. Yes. I do not have a book coming out. So we have to bring Julian in to talk a bit about that. But first, what's up, dude? How's it going? You're in Nashville right now?

Yeah, I'm in Nashville right now. The Sends are going to play against the Preds on Thursday night. So I'm there for that game. Hopefully you guys are doing well. Good to see you guys. Yeah. Do you like Nashville? That's like, I'm just like, who cares about me?

I need to know what you think about Broadway. I like it. The last time I was... I've seen Julian in action on now. He likes Nashville. Julian rip it up at Tootzee's on the rooftop. Tutsis is a really good time. That's as much as I'm willing to say on Tutsis.

I do like Nashville. I had a great time at the draft a couple of years ago with you guys. And yeah, it's good to be back. I'm really enjoying the city. So my Tutsi's story is one of the reasons why Dom Lus Chishin and I are no longer friends. We are professional colleagues. So Dan Robson shows up at Tutsis. and he has this cowboy hat that a friend made for him for free

and he's like do you want this cowboy hat? And I said yes, I do. I would love it. I'm wearing this cowboy hat. I'm in my element. I'm finally enjoying Nashville. Dom comes up and says, where did you get this hat?

He grabs it and he drops it off the roof. By mistake, cowboy hat's gone. I'm pissed. I honestly don't think I knew that. Oh my God. Did you know? I don't like really remember that happening. Don just kind of like threw my cowboy hat off.

the roof. I have a question about that hat. He walked away and forgot, you know? What, what color was that hat? It was black. Because it was very cool. Did you find one on the street?

Do you have my hat? I don't know. I'm wondering about that because Dan Robson, because Dan Robson gave me this black hat he wore, like, I don't know what it was at Tutsis, but he was wearing this hat. He gave me this hat. And did you get it back to him at some point?

No, he let me have it. I have the hat. He must. He also had two hats. Robson just carries around a suitcase of black cowboy hats wherever he goes. The world's sweetest man, Dan Robson. So, like, that hat, that was like, I don't remember if that was like my first year in Calgary at that point. But, like, I had that, you know, it was the first year because.

You wore the stampede and stuff. You have my hat. Yeah. And I left it in Alberta because I have a few cousins who live there. And I gave it to my cousin. It's like, I don't need this in Ottawa. I don't need this anymore. Yeah.

That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Yeah, my cousin has that hat. He must have got two hats or. Yeah, it has to be. Or Dom didn't throw it off through. It was Julian. It was Julian standing on the street below the top floor.

It's a, it's a cowboy hat falls perfectly on his head. Hey, free hat. Okay. Oh, my God. Or I don't know it. I just remember. I remember. Wow, I'm so glad I told that story.

I had an intrusive thought that said, you must talk about this cowboy hat right now. And halfway through, I was like, why am I doing this? I'm derailing the whole show. And now I'm really glad that we did this. And now the hat is in Calgary, Alberta. Where it belongs, honestly. It's right for home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I never wore a cowboy hat to the Stampede, but I did wear fringe. Okay. Yeah, I'm not a fringe guy for Stampede, but I did enjoy the times I got to wear a cowboy hat at Stampede. Those were good times. I love that for you. Okay, I'll get it on the rails. I apologize everyone. Even though I think the sisterhood of the traveling cowboy hat is incredible.

I love this for us. Yumi and Dan Robson and kind of Dom. United forever. All right. Let's get to the big news of the week in Ottawa, Julian. Linus Allmark revealed that he took a personal leave from the Ottawa senators for mental health reasons in an interview with TSN's Claire Hannah. It's a great sit down. Claire did an excellent job.

with a very, like, difficult and personal subject. So I do recommend everyone take a look at that. Julian also wrote a story about this. Um, so you can take a look at that as well at theathletic.com. Normally, I would say people or media members at least are very good at keeping people's personal lives private when it's a leave of absence like this. But because of the rumors that happened on social media, because of the Ottawa senator's state ent, um, everything became very public.

which led to Allmark coming out and speaking about everything. So Julian, just boots on the ground. You're around the team all the time. You're in Ottawa. How has all this been received since he came out and spoke? And just what have the last couple weeks been like in Sandsland for you? It's been a little wild to measure all of this, right? I think from the players standpoint, at least from the ones I've spoken to about the statement

and how they received Linus since he's come back around them in the dressing room. He's been, it seems like he's been well received. A couple guys have told me that when they saw him for the first time after his leave, they hugged him. They gave him well with words of support. And with the statement, guys like Tim Stutzland, Brady Kachuk, were among the first to say it was good on the part of the senators to put that out there. That being said, you step out of it.

the dressing room and you look at the team as a whole and you look at their place in the standings and the fact that since that leave from for for linus hallmark this team has kind of been free falling a little bit slowly lately I think the way they played against columbus they've tried to put themselves back on track they also got a point against Detroit and against montreal the last couple of games too but we're talking about a team that they had a 76% chance of making the playoffs in late December, and they've plummeted since. And when you combine that with the fact that their goaltender is on leave and the statement that came out and the craziness that ensued online around that and the talk around this

team, I would say that there's been some heavier, maybe some tense times around this team. This team is hopefully trying to, hopefully for themselves, they're trying to get out of that tense time, but it's, I have to say, just like the mood around this team, it's been, it's been antsy. This is not the situation the senators expected to be in at all where Levy Merlinan, who earned the backup role for this team with the way that he played last year is likely going to be number three from here on out with James Reimer holding the fort. And you could make the argument that a goalie of James Reimer's caliber should have been signed as a tweener much earlier. in the season, but the senators are in the spot that they're in right now. And even when

Lena Selmer comes back, like, I think a lot of people in Ottawa are obviously going to be happy for him. And I think him being able to talk that honestly about his feelings, he deserves some credit for that. He deserves all the credit, I think, for being able to speak honestly and speak bravely. But once that applause ends, that ovation ends, everyone's going to look at him and say, hey, are you going to do enough to get this team back in the playoffs? This is still a goaltender with, it was in the top three in the worst goals saved above expected. Like, there's a lot of pressure riding on the goaltending position to help the senators get themselves back in the playoffs or else they're entering a Tuesday scenario where they miss the playoffs and they don't have a first round pick. It's a pretty tense time, I would say.

Yeah, it's difficult because everyone, you know, wants to give Linus Allmark like the space to take care of them. self. Like I listened to the interview. I read the quotes and, you know, I'm happy that he has taken that time and that he felt like ready to go and take that leave and he's getting like the help that he feels that he needs because, um, I don't know. And then just to know that there's all these rumors going around while this is someone who is dealing with like mental health issues. Like it just makes the whole situation even worse. Like it's just very difficult to imagine what Linus Allmark is going through. But then, of course, once he does return, it probably will turn a little bit quicker to the, like, okay, now that you're back, like, what are you doing for me lately?

And if he is ready to return, like, whenever he feels comfortable to do so, I just hope that he's, like, okay. And the, like, pressure that comes with it, like, doesn't make it worse for him, if that makes sense. Like, that's where my mind goes is, like, this is someone who's dealing with mental health. issues and he's going to come back to play eventually and be like anxiety and the stressors and the pressure is going to be like almost even worse. So I just feel for Lena Solmark and hope that he's okay. Sean, you had something to say though. I'm sorry. I just the added layer of unfortunateness is Marilyn's play. I mean he's 11 games since O'Marks's since O'Mark left the line up. Marilyn is fortunateness.

six and one. He's got an 847 save percentage and nearly nine goals saved below expected, which is only behind Jonathan Quick in that in that time frame. We know what we've seen from Quick and the Rangers since Cheserkin left the lineup. So I think that's been an, it seems like from the outside, two things. It's been an exacerbating factor for the overall circumstances surrounding Olmark and surrounding the Sins is this goaltender play. And also it seems like it kind of is, you know, it seems like the primary issue at hand is, is that, is that they're not getting, you know, particularly competent play from, from Maryland. And who, by the way, started with 10 straight games or something. Like, he's, he's overworked now on top of, on top of not playing well. So I'm just wondering, Julian, like, from your perspective, you know, from me, someone who doesn't necessarily watch the Idaho centers every night. I'm just like, oh, this. This is a team that's getting a run of poor goaltending play at kind of the worst possible time.

And that's the main factor, you know, and then losing six of their last nine or whatever it is. Is that how you see it in your purview? Are there other things on ice that are going wrong with this team aside from the goaltender player? Or is that, you know, at the top of it truly at the top of the list by itself in terms of factors that are at play here? I understand if this isn't the best way to describe it, but I think up until now, whatever issues popped up for the Ottawa senators is kind of felt like a game of whackamol where at one point there was an issue with them scoring at five on five. That's supposed to be a strength of theirs. At one point, there was an issue with them on the power play. Another point, actually one other thing that's been kind of dominant throughout this season is their penalty kill, which is, is they're a penalty kill, which is.

among the worst in the league, particularly on the road. But underlying all of that was the goaltending. You go back to the beginning of the season where training camp, where Linus Olmark expresses that he's not at his standard. And he literally says, like, on day two of training camp, that he had a terrible showing. And there are some things that might need to be worked out for next season between him and goaltending coach Justin Peters,

Levy Merlinan, since training camp, since preseason also wasn't at his 100% best. His first game of the year is a bad game against Buffalo. And then he gets set down to the HL just to kind of get his confidence back. Like the goaltending, it's been a season long problem for the Ottawa senators. There have been points where both of those goaltenders had moments where they were seemingly getting themselves back on the right track. but these last few weeks have really shown that if this team had average level goaltending or anything close to that, they would be in a much different spot compared to

being near the bottom of the Eastern Conference. You look at their team safe percentage. It's been at the bottom for most of this season. And I'll give a shout out to my colleague, Callum Frazier, from Post Media, who's tweeted about this for the last couple of days. but we're not just talking about a team goaltending performance that's bad for this season. You can go back the last 30 years. It ranks among the worst that we've seen in the league.

Like the senators, this is not a stretch of play of five, ten games where everything's gone bad at goaltending. This is a season-long problem. And if it ultimately, if the sentence missed the playoffs this year, we are going to point to that position that was supposed to be of strength as a a major weakness as a major reason why this team didn't get the job done. This is not, like, I covered the Ottawa Senators, what, like six, seven years ago now, five years ago now, I don't know. These were the issues that I was writing about when I covered the Ottawa Senate.

So this is just like Groundhog Day in a market that has not been able to find any goalie stability since Craig Anderson left his prime. Like the amount of goal. churn. Here's our savior. This guy's our savior. Here's the young stud. All of them are gone now. And maybe thriving in other markets. So I just think like the ability to like retain top goaltenders, find top goaltenders. It has not been good. Like Linus Allmark was going to be the guy. And he said in the Claire Hannah interview, like he's been struggling since the trade. And that's something that we like hear from players who struggle post-trades or you hear from athletes saying like we don't

know what goes through these people people's minds or what's going on in their lives when they're traded like it's very difficult for these people to be traded and lina salmark said he's been struggling since getting traded from boston um so i just think this is another year in which the sends haven't been able to figure it out between the pipes and it's not a new problem and again it's just like, I just feel like they've historically just picked the wrong guy. And it's easy to sit here now and, in hindsight, and be like, maybe you shouldn't have given up on Philip Gustafson who's going to start for Sweden at the Olympics. Or maybe Joey DeCord was worth keeping around. I'm not going to go to bat for like Anton Forsberg and Philip Grubauer,

you know, but like, Gustafsson, the Gustafsson one's been like a sore spot. You're absolutely, For a little while. It's tough. The one thing I'll just say, though, is like, the senators made the trade for a Vesina winner. They didn't open a mystery box. They didn't open a mystery box and say, okay, well, this guy might be good. We're going to take a chance.

I would agree with that now, for sure. For sure. Like, and hey, you can, you can say like, hey, you know what? Lena Sormark was in a tandem situation. Jeremy Swayman and all that. And they're understandably, would our, questions. I'm not saying there shouldn't be questions about whether or not he should have been the right guy. My ultimate point is, is that in spite of all the gold-tending issues, the senators, I can

understand why they would go to a guy like Lena Solmark in that spot. He had a pedigree behind him from his days in Boston that should have made him the answer. And right now, it hasn't looked like that. Yeah. I think the issue is Levy Merlinan. Well, no, and I was going to say, like, I gave the senators a lot of credit for. for like when they made the Allmark trade of them just being like, we're done with this back and forth. Yeah, you can't find a goaltender stuff. So they deserve a lot of credit for going out and making the trade for the guy.

It just hasn't worked out that way for, you know, a number of reasons that we still don't even completely understand if we're thinking about Linus Allmark. Right. Let's ask one more question. Sorry to cut you off, Sean. We don't have that much time with Julian. I want to ask one more question about Brady Kachuk.

We were talking about Team USA off the top. Let's ask about Brady now. I think like his brother, Matthew just played his first game. The Cucks have obviously been a big topic. They were at Four Nations. They're going to be at the Olympics. So what can American fans expect from Brady in Milan? Where is his game at right now?

I think for Brady, once he gets that opportunity to play with his brother to play in some meaningful Team USA games, you're going to see a barrel and power forward. Very curious to see how that will play out on much smaller ice conditions compared to what we normally expect for the Olympic-sized rinks. I know, obviously, with his hand, that's been an issue. Obviously, he was gone for 20 games earlier this year. He comes back. He's been very mindful of that.

Not that he would have been able to fight anyway at the Olympic level, but clearly that's something that kind of adds to his edge. at the NHL level. I think for Brady, I think what you'll see from him is someone who will try to find a way to still impose himself, still be a bully at the Olympic level against other smaller players if he can.

There's a reason why Ottawa Senators fans love him. There's a reason why the Sends obviously take pride in having him at the top of their lineup because of the fact that he's been such a solid power forward. And just these last couple games, though, I do think that he maybe has been thinking about that thumb just trying to make himself not be too hurt. And I think just some of that edge, it doesn't show itself nearly as frequently compared to when he is 100% and he is healthy.

But I think Americans shouldn't be too worried once he's in the lineup for them. All right, Julian, we teed it up off the top of the show. You have a book coming out. This is very exciting. It's called Black Aces. It comes out on February 3rd with Triumph. Do you want to give us a little bit of class? I didn't realize it was that soon.

Holy cow. Is that next week? I know. Listen, it's crazy. Just don't think of February is being next week. I'm sorry. Yeah, that is kind of upsetting. Well, I guess next week's not.

Is it February next week? It's like, I don't know. Comes out on February 3rd. It's like 10 days. You talk to Sarah Nurse, P.K. Sue ban, Anton Carter. It's an essential collection of stories from black hockey players, personalities, and people. Julian, is there anything you want to say about your book? before we let you go.

I just, I've seen a lot of people show off the copies that they've gotten already. A lot of people have been pre-ordering and these books have been coming in early. So it should be available for everyone on February 3rd. But if you have a copy already, thank you. Very appreciative of that. I hope people enjoy the stories that have been told. I took a lot of pleasure in chatting to some of the best hockey players in the world and Jerome McGinla or P.K.

Or a Sarah nurse. Did you talk to her dad, Roger? I didn't get a chance to talk to her dad, Roger, and I really should have. You should know. He's my friend. I honestly should have done that. But I do think that Sarah on her own was absolutely incredible going through her life story and up until where she is now and being a success in the PWHL and obviously her Olympic success too

and getting other people around the league to talk about her as well. I thought that was really cool to. I'm really glad I was able to spend that time and talk to her, but also people like Dante Abercrombie, who will be trying to head the first men's hockey program at a historically black college or university or Kelsey Kozler, who got drafted first overall in the NWHL draft and is doing a great job at Arcadia University as a head coach as well.

And then, of course, people like Willie O'Reay and Herb Carnegie and a whole bunch of other different players through the years getting profan. I hope people enjoy it and I hope people read it. That's awesome. I can't wait. I'm going to have to buy a copy. Yeah, I've got to find a way to get you a copy, man. I'd like to be sent a copy. Yeah, we got a, we got a fine way to get you guys some copies, man.

I want you guys reading the book. Free stuff. Let's go. Yeah, you got to do that. I got Craig to send Sean a copy of his book last year. Have you ever, have you ever said this? Have you ever said this on the pod before? I don't think so. I don't know if I have. I like coordinated with it. with Craig to send Sean a copy of his book with like an autograph on it and it said like,

what did it say like to Sean dream big like from like Craig Custon's. Very formal, very dream big kid and it was the funny thing I've ever done. Reach for the stars. Yeah. One day, one day, Sean, you'll get it. You'll get it, Sean. I believe in you. No, I think I think the peak of my career and possibly in my life is getting a signed book from Craig.

well you're about to get a signed book from julian mackenzie julian i'll hit you up appreciate that a lot more mailing address and we'll come up with like a funny thing you can sign it for this my favorite bit is getting people to send Sean books having my friends send me books with very insincere inscriptions in them yeah let's go reach for the stars love julian mackenzie i can't wait to continue this tradition i would be honored It will occupy a place of prominence in my home. I can't wait to read it. As Sean's manager, I'll send you his PO box later, Julian.

Yes, yes. We'll make sure that happens. It's 1-22 Boogie Wookie Avenue. All right, we're going to take one more break than we're out of here. Julian, thank you so much. Congrats on the book. Can't wait to read it. I hope my copy's the mail.

We'll be right back. Thanks so much, guys. All right, we're back. yesterday was a good day on the website, as it always is when the WHL player poll dropped. Haley, that's all you. You got more than 50 players, I think was it was a 51, the total here?

It was like over a quarter of the league. That's a much better way to frame it. Like 50's impressive, but a quarter of the league is next level stuff. And you ask them, of course, you know, you asked them the obvious burning talks, Topics, best player, most underrated player, expansion questions. Yeah.

I think I know where you're going to go here, but what was your favorite question to ask and which one do you think got the best responses? Okay, so my favorite question... It's trash talker. No, it actually ended up being like, what's your favorite comfort TV show? Oh, I forgot about that. And that was the one where I so badly wish that I would have asked a couple players to, like, lift their anonymity because it makes it even funnier to know, like, who's saying these things.

One player said that they've just been crushing down to NABby, and there's just something really funny about, you know, a younger female watching. I really, I really wish you could spill. I really wish you could spill who gave these answers. And then there was also one player who just, like, deadpan. And this was like the funniest interaction I had. Because like, whatever, we have all these questions. One of them was like, what's the worst arena? What's the biggest issue in the sport?

So we wanted to end the poll with like a light one. What's your favorite comfort TV show? You're away from the rink. What are you reaching for? And this player just looks me dead in the eye and goes, young Sheldon. And then we were both just silent for like five seconds. And then we both started laughing. Like the recording of it was very funny.

And she was just like, I bleep and love that show, man. And I was just like, okay, love that for you. Like, that's my mom's favorite show as well. Did you ask her for her thoughts on the greater Big Bang Theory expanded universe? No, no. I just. All the shows that have come out of that stupid show? Or is she just Young Sheldon?

No, I think that was just so taken aback by her saying Young Sheldon. And that was like the last question of the poll, too. So we just kind of laughed and I was like, all right, well, thanks. You should also, you should specify too. This was a, this was kind of a long-term project for you. And you didn't get a lot of these responses before heated rivalry frenzy took over over the holidays. I feel like we probably would have gotten some different answers if we would have asked. For sure.

This was, we started doing this in September and then wrapped in January and then it posted now. But so when I first started, a lot of players were like, a lot of players just like watching, like, the trending TV show. So there was a lot of, like, the summer I Turn Pretty, binge watches going on or whatever, like, Netflix documentary had come out at that time. One player just, like, loves to watch dirty dancing all the time. But anyway, that one was funny because it was just, like, a kind of funny personality thing.

But Trash Talk was a really fun one to do, too, Sean. I know you mentioned that. Last time I did this poll, Abby Rock was like the runaway winner. Everyone was saying her, she's the most annoying to play again. She runs her mouth. Now, two years into the PWHL, Emma Maltay technically won. However, one player did write in a negative one point for Emma Maltay. So if we take that into consideration, it's a tie.

but Maltay and Abby Rock were the number one and two. And Emma, if you've ever watched any of the miced-ups, I should have linked it in the story. Because anytime she's miced up on CBC, we have a ton of content to choose from because she is always talking. And Emma, on the record, I asked her about this. Like, hey, you're winning the trash talk battle right now. Do you have anything to say for yourself? And she was like, I'm not trash talking. I'm just yapping.

And that is what most players would say about M.A. Like a Pomeranian or something, yes. Well, she's five foot two. She's very small, very nice. But I guess she gets on the ice and she just doesn't stop talking. So that's what a lot of the players were saying as well is like, it's not really the quality of what Maltay is saying. It's just the quantity in which she does it.

So the trash talk one's always really funny. Which question got the answer? that are the most important for for fans rating this like like which what set of responses do you think they should um look at most closely the runaway win for poolan is the best player in the pw hl stands out um like we all know it but when i did this poll a couple years ago there was a lot more americans specifically who thought like hillary knight should be there or people picking like goalies and to be fair the question was phrased a little differently that time it was like if the PWHL exists, who are you taking first overall?

So some players are like, well, maybe I'll go for a goalie because Anne-Rene-Dabien's better than anyone on the planet. So let me go there. But this time around, like 80% of the vote, everyone was saying Poulin. So there really isn't that much of a debate. She's really run away with that. So that's important if you're like a Canadian fan

and you're nervous about the Olympics because of rivalry series. Like, you're probably okay because Canada has the best player on the planet on their team. And then I think best breakout player was probably a pretty important one too. Hannah Bilka won that one and that's another player who will be important at the Olympics. She'll have a top six role on Team USA.

She'll play on the power play. She's healthy. She was cut from the last world championship team. So I think we're going to see like a healthy and rejuvenated Hannah Bilka. She's got a ton of skill. If you see her on the line with like Abby Murphy and Taylor Heise, they're just going to go to town in the offensive zone. So those were big ones. also asked about like where could you where do you want the league to expand next and kind of

the usual suspects one out there Detroit Denver Chicago were the top three and then a lot of players said like kind of goofy like let's go to Nashville or let's go to Florida like I would like to have a nice warm vibe on a on a road trip in the middle of February and we should say because I did get some comments on this this most of this poll was completed before the DC Obviously before the DC showcase. So I do think if I would have started asking players after that, we would have gotten more from more love for DC. It's interesting.

DC's going to be a super interesting option for PWHL expansion. So those are the big ones, Sean. There's three separate stories up on the site. I always love. I always love reading these men. I'm a sucker for an anonymous poll, whether it's NHL players or PDA players or whatever. Yep.

It's worth everybody's time. All right. Thanks, Sean. Thanks for the plug. Seven games in the NHL tonight. The next episode of the athletic hockey show is Monday. But on Sunday, look out for a special drop here on the athletic hockey show feed. We're sharing an exclusive interview with Brady Kachuk, who recently sat down with Pierre LeBron for a special segment on the Athletic Show.

That's the Athletics Weekly Sports Show airing on Amazon Fire and YouTube. Check it out. Stay tuned Sunday on our feed wherever you get your podcast. With that interview, thanks everyone for listening to this episode. Sean and I will be back next Thursday.