The Athletic Hockey Show - Why did 'Yeti' fall out of contention for the Utah Hockey Club?

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Hailey and Sean discuss the mountain of red tape that the Utah Hockey Club has had to navigate while trying to pick a team name. They talk about Fenway Sports Group deciding to sell off a piece of the Penguins, and Sidney Crosby trying to squash trade rumors involving him, once and for all. Plus Drew Doughty, a candidate to replace Alex Pietrangelo at the Four Nations Faceoff makes his season debut for the LA Kings and we stick tap the Captains for Finland, Sweden, USA and Canada at the tournament.Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What's up, everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley and Sean here with you on another Thursday. Sean, maybe we'll manifest another Eric Tulski blockbuster this week. What do you think? I'm saying we did something there. I know we spent 30 minutes talking about J.T. Miller to the Cains.

I don't know how we think. It ended up being Ego Ranin as we now know. But I think. We got Tulsaquit Kukin, I think. We can say that. Yeah, I'll take some credit for that. How much credit do we get for just kind of generically saying that the Carolina hurricane should trade for somebody good? Like, that's great.

Box checked. Yeah. Our minds were right. We were thinking correctly. I think Eric listens to the show. I can either confirm nor deny. But yeah, we were barking. That actually would be embarrassing.

You're barking up the wrong tree, honestly. It's a shame. I thought it was going to be J.T. Miller. It turns out to be Miko Ranton. I think that's a better trade for the Carolina Hurricanes. And we don't need to get too far into it because there's plenty of Miko Rantinan analysis over the last six days.

But suffice to say, yeah, I think our hypothetical trade for the Carolina Hurricanes was not quite as great as the one that actually pulled off. No, but there's a good fit there. And I don't know, it seemed like that was almost part of the, like full Tulski experience that everyone got last week, which was like,

everyone thought it was Miller and he pulled this one out instead. Like that kind of added to the fun of it all. In hindsight, maybe we should have assumed that Caroline was going to go and get an aging player with a gazillion dollars left on his contract who has iffy five on five numbers on and off. We even know anything about the canes. But everyone makes mistakes.

We're on the right scent. We just followed it down the wrong alleyway. It's fine. It's always funny when trades like that happen. Like had Mika Rattnan been on any trade boards yet? Like had anyone talked about him as a trade candidate? I think the snowball started rolling down the hill in the week up to it where it's like, oh, they're like probably should check in on Miko Rinton and contract extension negotiations with the Colorado Avalanche.

But even then, that usually means. something when it's like getting mixed messages about when the insiders are getting mixed messages on on how things are on how things are going on negotiations it typically means something yeah uh doesn't typically mean you know blockbuster trade 36 hours later or whatever so no yeah not to we don't have to go all in on the trade and because we had i know las and max did like a reacts pod right away and there's been, you know, basically a week of everyone talking about this. But I think the funniest or like the most intriguing part of all this is just how open and on the record, Miko Rannan has been from his perspective of like the shock and how things went down. Usually those are the things

that trickle out from insiders being like, I'm told or it's my understanding that Miko Rannan was willing to take less. But this time around, we just have Miko Rannan being like, no, I was he's telling Peter Baugh, no, I was going to take significantly less. So I'm kind of shocked right now. That's always interesting. See a player come out and just lay it all out there. It helps too that Carolina was playing the Islanders immediately after it happened. So he ends up there.

He's talking to Pete. He's a guy who covered him to great acclaim with the Colorado Avalent. He wrote a book. He wrote a book for God's sakes. He and his hat. wrote a book. Oh, my God. I forgot about Peter's little hat.

Oh, bring a little hat back. Yeah, him and, him and Rainin got along great. He's written extensively about Rantingan over the course of his career. Pete's written some killer Miko Rinton features over the last, however many years.

So there was a preexisting relationship there, too. And I think, yeah. So I think that's how you end, part of the reason that you end up seeing Rantinin and spill his guts a little bit in the immediate aftermath. But yeah, they're often, off and running. He's assisting on

Sveshna Cob goals a couple nights ago. You know, all is well. Did you see Peter's stat that everyone in that trade got their first point against the Rangers, I think, is what he said? I did not, but that's very, that checks out. That's funny. Carolina beat the Rangers 4-0, I think, on Tuesday night.

Yeah. So, yeah. We're off and rolling. And that's the benefit of trading for a star too in January. Like they're going to, rather than waiting until March 7th. Carolina gets an extra at five weeks or six weeks for him to get accustomed, you know, find his way, find his way around, figure out who he fits best because that's an outstanding question too.

Their lines are in a bit of a blender, as you'd expect when they send out, you know, their leading score and add a high-end winger like that. So yeah, they got time to figure it out. I'm all for early trades. Yeah. Can I ask you before we move on from this? We do have a little bit of news to get into, but like, whatever, it's okay. pay if we spend five minutes talking about

probably the biggest in season trade in years. I'm kind of of the can't, like, I know, and maybe I'll regret this in hindsight, but like, I don't know if Rantan needs to, like, I wasn't looking at this being like, ooh,

ooh, if Rantan doesn't resign, this is like a huge L for the Cains. I know that people are maybe still reeling from Gensel leaving, but I don't know. I think I take six months of one of the top three wingers in the NHL over another year and a half of Martin Natchez.

Like I just don't think what they gave up was that egregious, even if Miko ran and leaves. Like, sure, maybe there's more likelihood that Natchez would stay once his contract is up, but it's not like this was a long term. Like, NACIS didn't have that much in team control. So I guess the other asterix is like. if the canes will actually go the distance with Miko Ranton on their team, but I would rather see them try a deal like this

than just be like, ooh, I don't know, maybe he's gonna walk, I don't think we want to do this. Like, I would rather see GMs do this all day than look at term. Yeah, you have to try. Like the Carolina, the Carolina Hurricanes can win a Stanley Cup

in May or June. Just like they could have won one last spring, just like they could have won one last spring, just like they could have won one, the spring before. I think there's a degree of urgency there. But I also think there's an understanding that they have a roster and whatever, we can put the goalie conversation on a shelf and and pick that up sometime in the future. But that's a group of skaters that can do it. Yeah. They can do it. So recognize it. Act as such. Make moves that are in line with with,

with with with the with the reality of your chances. You know, like you're never going to be you're never going to be able to trade Martin Aitchis for Miko Ranton ever again. Like this, there was a small window in time. Yeah. Where that was a viable thing where Martin Hs is going to be the piece that brings back Mika Randen. It wouldn't happen last year. It wasn't going to happen next year.

No, because then he's pending UFA. Yeah. He's in the middle of a career season. He's eventually he's going to get paid more than he's making right now. Martin H. As great as he's been has shown no signs of being this caliber of player on a consistent basis earlier, you know, to this point in his career. Like, this is it.

This was the moment. And I think, you know, this goes for any GM. I always bring it up with Rutherford because it's true with Jim Rutherford and the Penguins. I love seeing GMs recognize what they have. I love seeing them realize when they've been given the gift of Sebastian Ajo in his prime. And, you know, what in Svetchenikov and had written aboard to an extent. I'm like totally absolutely like there's there are pieces there that make the hurricanes it not just a viable contender but a top shelf one with meek or in in the fold and they're acting like it right and I I respect it yep yep I thought it was cool I also yeah I thought maybe people

thought natures had signed for longer or something I was like it's not like this they traded someone who's got like six years left signed a two-year deal in arbitration last summer. Like he's got a year and a half of team. I think people have just like there's always been. I'd rather take six months of Miko Ranton than a year and a half of Natchez. Yeah. And there's always been, you know, how much is he worth? How long is he signing for?

There's been Martin Natchez, you know, contract, not drama, but it's been, it's been a bit of dialogue in the past. And I think people just internalized and thought that it was over, right? Like, I think once they, once he, once he, once he signed that. bridge deal. I think people just were like, okay, he's he's taken care of. And he's not. He's up in a year and a half. So yeah, all for it. Yeah. From last night, the Utah hockey club has decided on three possibilities for their team name and Yeti, which was long considered to be the favorite, at least one of the favorites, is not one of them. A copyright disagreement between the team and the Yeti cooler company has resulted in Utah moving away from that name.

Yeti has the trademark that allows them to print Yeti on clothing, merch, etc. So Utah's going in a new direction. There's been a lot of red tape with trademarking and with some of their options. Chris Johnson had reported last week, I believe, that they'd had to scratch out, Blizzard, outlaws, Venom, et cetera. So the three finalists now, or the three possibilities, they've announced are the Utah Mammoth, Utah Hockey Club,

and Utah Wossich. Yes. Did I pronounce that correctly? Yes. Naming sports franchises in 2025 is difficult. Yeah, I think what we have here is proof that it's difficult

whenever you're trying to name your team after an actual well-known brand in 2025. I think we always do see trademark red tape. You said it. It's not the easiest process.

But a lot of times people will take money. It'll be some half-extinct, you know, sort of defunct situation that while they legally hold the copyright, they don't actually use it for anything. So it'll be someone who's willing to

You know, you cut them a check and it goes away. Yeah. I think what we have here is, you know, there's no amount of money that you could pay Yeti because that's a big, that's a big, that's a corporation. That's a big brand. Yeah. And they make a whole lot of money on overpriced coolers and water bottles and whatever else. The funniest part of all of this, though, is like when Yeti as a brand was at its peak,

I don't like I feel like this is probably five years ago. Like whatever. People go to the, they go to the beach, they pack up the Yeti cooler. Yeah. The strangest part was when I would see bumper stickers and whatever else. Like car window decals.

I was like what in what world? Because they give you a sticker with every purchase or whatever. It's like your Apple. When you get an iPhone, you get that sticker and then the box that you never throw away. Exactly. Except there was a fair amount of people. they were taking that sticker and putting it on their car, like on their car.

You're defacing your automobile in the name of gassing up a water bottle brand. Like it's wild to me. It was always strange to me. Like imagine feeling that level of brand allegiance to your cooler bag that you wear hats. It's like they would sell hats at dicks or models or whatever, sporting goods stores that say Yeti on them. You can go to REI and buy a lot. a Yeti t-shirt. This is a water bottle brand. So I made note of that back then as it just being something hokey and lame. And ultimately, that's what nuked the Utah Yetis is because Yeti has

the right to make those, Yeti has the copyright to make those stickers and make those hats and make those t-shirts. And that is in effect right now. That is an active copyright. And they were not interested in selling. Dollars of donuts, that's what happened. Yeah. There were discussions there, you know, to try to come to some kind of agreement to let Utah use it. Right.

And the water bottle brand was like, nope. So I actually pulled this quote up because I talked to Brian Jennings, who is the NHL's executive vice president of marketing. And I spoke to him back in, I guess, November 2023 when I did a story about like, why is the PWHL launching without team names? So this quote isn't obviously about the Utah Hockey Club, but I do think it's relevant when it comes to naming. And he'd said in terms of like picking names,

quote, you can't just pick a name out and say, I'm going to do that. In hockey, is there somebody else called that? Well, they could claim that there's consumer confusion. If it's another sport, you could probably get a coexistence agreement with the trademark and patent office, but it takes time to navigate that.

So like this isn't about Utah, obviously. This was just him like explaining the process of picking names and how that all works. But I think that's relevant to this, right? Like obviously Yeti is going to say like, yeah, sure. Like we could have a coexistence agreement because like you're hockey and wear water bottles. But they could also say there's going to be too much consumer confusion. I want if someone says, I want a Yeti T-shirt for Christmas, is it the water bottle or is it the hockey team. Obviously, like, you know your kid wants whatever, like, you're going to ask them,

do you mean the water bottle or the t-shirt? But like from a business or trademark standpoint, like, they're just going to be like, that's going to be, you're a big NHL team. That's going to make too much of a headache for us. So I get it. I didn't, I didn't love the Yeti name personally anyways. It wasn't one of it wasn't. I don't think it was particularly good. I didn't even think of the Yeti water bottle. So this is where I come. I have a Yeti water bottle. My aunt likes to buy them for everyone every time she visits. But she also likes to engrave them. That's like their thing. You can engrave things. She wrote like a note to me in the Yeti water bottle. It's very funny.

Like it just says like Haley Nicole Selvian, happy birthday. We love you. It was just like sentences on this Yeti water bottle. I was like, what's happening right now? I can't bring this to the gym anymore. The brand the brand allegiance is strong on that. And there is, there's been good. Yeah, I didn't even, I didn't even think of the Yeti company until you had said.

I was like, why, why can't they use Yeti? And you're like, the water bottles. So, at, Islanders games,

I've noticed. They're like, there's some kind of sponsor for Islanders broadcast. There's been good reporting done on this, too. KSL, a TV station. and website and Salt Lake City has done a lot. The Salt Lake Tribune's done a lot.

Josh Yoey was on site last night or yesterday for the press conference for this because he's there covering the Penguins, obviously. And you mentioned the coexistence agreement. This is Mike Mon who's an executive with Ryan Smith's group. At the end of the day, they have a trademark that allows them to print Yeti or Yetis on clothing and other licensed merchandise. and without a coexistence agreement, we would not be able to print that.

So they couldn't figure out the coexistence agreement. And that stopped them from being able to print, like, flat out. And the other thing, the other thing specifically is that there could be, there are appeals processes. This is a legal process. This is, you know, it's. It would take too long to get.

It's a lengthy one. It would take too long. Even if, even if, you know, whoever, whoever's in charge of this stuff were to rule in favor of the hockey team, it will be so far down the road that they wouldn't be able to sell merch for the 2025, 26 season. So this is just like clearly, you know, they just cut their losses and moved on. And the end result is, you know, like you said, Haley, these three finalists we have, which is, which are varying degrees of goofy. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's, again, it's similar to the PWHL, like, could they have tried to do the Minnesota rain, maybe, but you have to go down the road of trying to talk to the Ontario rain and say, hey, your men's hockey, we're women's hockey, maybe we could figure this out. Like, it just takes so long. And then what we know from all the reporting I did on PWA HL jerseys, like the timeline to get your jersey mockups in to be ready for the season. Like, it's, it's lengthy. This is not something where you can just decide in April, June, and you're like, okay, we're ready.

like it's not an off-season project. I forget when it was, but Brian was like when we're doing like a winter classic or when there's like, they will send out a note like way in advance to teams and ask do you have any special teachers you want or do you have any changes you want to make?

They need that months and months and months in advance of when they'd actually be worn. So Utah kind of had to cut, cut their losses on Yeti. So yeah, we're looking at Mammoth. Utah Hockey Club or Wosich. What do you think of these? I think it's pretty clear that Ryan Smith and his hockey franchise are stacking the deck for Mammoth.

That was my first takeaway when I saw this. Then you have Wosich, which is a mountain range. The Wausich. The Wossich is? It's also according to the team. and like another kind of name for a mythical no creature. So it's like Yeti, it's like, it's not Yeti, it's not Bigfoot.

But it's Walsich. It's like the hyper-local Yeti. It's like specific to that. That kind of makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Mike Mugin, who you'd quoted, said,

Walsich would still allow us to honor the mythical snow creature with a Utah appeal. We wanted to honor the idea that people have for a mythical snow creature. We wanted to honor the sentiment of one of those names, while also including a Utah-centric version. I guess if you're that, you're that married to the concept. I mean, you want to give people an option? Just any option will do. I don't know, man.

It just doesn't, it doesn't sound great coming off the tongue. So I think that's, and then Utah Hockey Club, I know a lot of people love Utah Hockey Club. This is similar to what we saw from Washington Football Club whenever Washington was rebranding to the commanders a few years ago. That did grow on people, right? And there were a lot of people who, in hindsight, after the commanders turned out to be the choice, where like maybe we should have stayed with the Washington Football Club. I don't see that happening here. I think if you give people the choice to have an actual team nickname and an actual mascot versus something that generic, I don't think, I think they're going to go with the with the non generic option.

And was it just sounds too goofy. So to me, this sounds like it's, this sounds like a done deal that we're going to be, you know, watching the Utah mammoth roll around in their blue and powder blue and their black and powder. blue and white jerseys, which is, you know, whatever. I don't know why we can't call them the mammoths. That was what I was going to say. Like, why is it just one mammoth? The mammoth. The plural of mammoth is mammoths.

It's not mammai. It's not a moose. It's not a moose. It's mammacies. I'm sorry. Did you see on like, was it like jeopardies? Like, what's the plural of moose? and the guy goes, me, so it's like, oh, Jeff, no.

Oh, no. Yeah, so we, this, it is an actual, it's a pluralizable word. It's a, it's a, it's not a singular plural. It's not a, it's not a singular noun. Yeah. So we can call them the mammoths. I would much rather that be, I mean, we've said this so many times. I'm so strong anti-singular plural.

Maybe the idea is. that they're the last mammoth alive, like Ice Age. Well, I guess he's not the last mammoth, but. Yeah, we're, we are really showing our lack of familiarity with A, the cryptids of the, of the Salt Lake City region, and B, the status of mammoths. How many mammoths are alive right now? I think it's zero. I'm pretty sure it's zero. Do we know that?

Maybe there's one living in Wausich. Yeah. Maybe there's a mammoth. Maybe there's a mammoth up and then our hills. Oh, God. So fans are going to be shown these names and logo. So we didn't mention this. Fans attending each of the next four Utah games at the Delta Center,

which began Wednesday night. Three, two Penguins, OT win there. They'll have a chance to vote on these three names. And within that, there'll be sneak peeks at the logo, the initial logo designs for each one. So fans aren't just going in and saying, like, I prefer hockey club or I prefer Mammoth because maybe it'd be a cool logo.

Like, they'll actually see a mockup of an initial kind of idea for the logos. But there's going to be, like, staff station there to be, like, no phones allowed. So fans can't go and, like, take pictures of the iPads where they can vote on. Something tells me those logos are going to leak. Yeah, we're just going to have somebody. We're just going to have somebody. go on Twitter and be like,

so the mammoth looks like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Someone's going to roll up with the ray bands that have the camera lens in them and that's going to be that. Those are very fun. Enjoy it. Enjoy it what you can. Yeah. Yeah.

So what, are you, which one's your favorite, Sean? Mammoth, but I, you know, I don't think it's great. I'm anti-generic nickname. I felt this way about Washington Football Club, too. No football club, no hockey club. I don't buy it.

It reminds me, like, soccer teams all have football club. Like, I don't. Not soccer. Different sport. I don't know. So that'll be voting. There's two more games at the Delta Center where fans can vote. I think it's cool that they're doing that.

I appreciate the fan. Do you think they're actually going to listen to that? You appreciate them letting the fans vote on it? Like, what are they? Well, I'm going to say, do you think they're actually going to go? with the fan vote or have they decided internally already? I think that's why we're seeing Wasatch in Utah HC is the options. I think there's probably a favorite in the building that they're trying to stack the deck

for if I had to guess, yeah. So if there were anything other than Mammoth by hook or by crook, I think I would be kind of surprised by it. But also I will say like Ryan Smith seems like he's pretty serious about the will of the people thing when it comes to this stuff. So who knows? Like crazy things have happened. But I'd be stunned if it weren't Mammoth by the time it's all.

said and done. All right. Well, we're going to take a break. That's the news of the day. When we come back, we have a few other little news items. Sean, you and Rob Rossi wrote about how Fenway Sports Group is selling a piece of the Pittsburgh Penguins. We also think that people need to leave Sidney Crosby alone. Stop trying to trade them.

That's coming up next on the Athletic Hockey Show. Elsewhere on the Athletic Podcast Network this week, Shantel Jennings brings. you the story of Notre Dame freshman forward Kate Koval, who grew up in Ukraine and moved to the United States at 15 to pursue her basketball dreams. Less than a year later, Kate's world was upended again when her home country was invaded by Russia, tearing her family apart in ways she could have never imagined, enforcing Kate and all those around her to reconsider the true meaning of sacrifice. It was a beautiful story by Chantelle, a great piece that you can check out on the athletic women's basketball show.

All right, welcome back to the athletic hockey show. A little bit of news out of Pittsburgh this week. This was a couple days ago, but you and Rob will have a story out this afternoon that kind of dives deeper. But news broke earlier this week that Fenway Sports Group, which own the Pittsburgh Penguins organization, are looking to add an investor to its ownership group. So essentially like selling a slice of the pie with the penguins, FSG, of course, owns the Boston Red Sox, MLB, Liverpool, and the English Premier League,

and they purchased the Penguins. They've been the primary owner of the franchise since 2021. So pretty big news. They haven't owned the team for that long. So I think when it came out that they were like looking to sell a piece, the kind of question is like why and what's going on. And you and Rob have a story that kind of looks at why and what's going on. How does all this work?

So I guess I'll just ask you first, Sean, like why is Fenway Sports Group seeking investors right now? Because there's a fair amount of debt associated with the Pittsburgh Penguins right now. And that's, you know, there's always, that's not an uncommon thing. But no playoff games in the last few years, and that certainly doesn't seem like that's, that's going to change anytime soon. That adds to the debt load. $30 million in improvements and renovations to the arena. That adds to the debt load.

There's a lot going. Gate revenue is obviously still a huge deal. They're selling fewer tickets. Now they might be priced more appropriately. So who knows what the actual ticket revenue is? I know we have sources saying that there's more money being brought in in ticket sales now than in the last couple years of the air quotes sellout streak that went on for years and years and years.

But ultimately, you know, this is this is something sports franchises do to help pay down debt and move forward on that end of things. And that's what our sources are saying that that Fenway's end goal is here. Not uncommon. I think it just, you know, it's always, you know, kind of confusing. standard, but not the most, not the most, you know, not the most understandable bit of stuff. I guess that's the big question is like, how should fans feel about this? Is this a sign that Fenway is like, ooh, maybe we shouldn't have done this or is this just a standard piece of business? I don't think it should be any source of concern.

I think this is a standard, a standard bit of business. We saw with the Dallas Mavericks not long ago, like these things, these things happen. And I think the variable with the penguins is that it's Fenway Sports, which bought the team four years ago. So they're relatively, you know, relatively, it's, you know, they're not, they're not far into their, into their tenure as the, is the, is the sole owner, ownership group for this, for this franchise, which is concerning. And I think you just mix in with how horrible the on-ice product has been, how much drama there is surrounding the state of, the franchise from a roster standpoint, I think it just kind of adds, it adds to the worries there. And that's understandable, but also, like, I don't, I don't think this should set off any, any particular alarm bells immediately. You know, this is, this is, this is standard. And I,

I think all signs point to Fenway being in it for the long term from giving Kyle Dubas a seven-year contract or whatever wants to run the hockey officer point. Like, there's, there's nothing that, that suggests that they're going to be short. short timers here. But this is a standard part of doing business. But that being said, I can understand why there's, it seems like there's some consternation around the fan base. Well, I guess what stands out to me is it seems like either there is a difference

in opinion on like the direction of the franchise between ownership and like hockey operations because Todd Warner is saying the goal is to win a Stanley Cup. That's back in October. Todd Warner with FSG. like obviously this is also a team that doesn't seem like it's able to do that right now. So that's something that's something everybody says, you know, like that's like standard owner, owner speak. I, I know that. And it is, it was important for him to say that.

I think because Fenway hasn't been a particularly involved ownership group. Like Kyle Dubas speaks for, speaks for the for the group. and we saw, you know, Brian Burke involved at one point. But there's no, you know, constant presence for FSG at Pirates at Penguins games. They have plenty of other concerns and that's understandable. So I think there was to some extent a need for Tom Warner to come in and say that, but also like, you know, yeah, of course they're trying to win the Stanley Cup in October. Like most teams, most, most teams are.

If you would come out and said like, is either there was like a difference in opinion on how to operate or FSG, just like underestimated or like didn't properly read the dial on where the franchise was. I think they had unrealistic. I think generally they had unrealistic expectations for what the where the franchise was at in its lifespan and what was possible for the group of players and the roster construction that it took over. Like it's really, really hard to just you know, do an on-the-fly rebuild without having a couple years of pain for anybody. And it's certainly even more difficult when as happened, you know, in the off season a few years ago, when you decided to give a ton of money to have Genie Malken and a ton of money to Chris LaTang

and, you know, kind of set the course for the next few years. A lot of, a lot of dough tied up and tied up in aging players. And I think once that die was cast and certainly Sydney Crosby had a whole lot to do with, with maintaining the status quo there, you know, it was always, it was always going to be a tough job. And then you throw in the fact that his first offseason, Kyle Dubas, spends a bunch of money on Tristan Jari, spends a bunch of money on Ryan Graves, goes out, acquires Eric Carlson,

it close to full freight. I mean, all of a sudden, there's not a lot of money to spend, and there's not a lot of avenues to improve the on-ice product. So getting better on the fly became a lot, it became a lot less realistic straight out of the game. So, yeah, I don't think FSG is, you know, playing. It sounds great in theory.

Like, hey, we're going to stay okay here. We're going to be championship contenders in a couple years. Like, that sounds great in theory, but executing that's something else entirely. And I think they've gotten a crash course in that. Yeah. And just very quickly, like some of the debt, as you mentioned, it's not just like paying and not making the playoffs or all the contracts like AT&T Sportsnet. the penguins were paid $24 million annually for local TV rights, but when that folded, FSG started Sportsnet Pittsburgh. So that's been kind of part of it.

And then there's also, you know, Brian Burke, Ron Hextall, all getting paid to not work for the penguins anymore. That's combined with Kyle Dubas's own salary as well. So those three guys made more than $10 million between the three of them last year. and two of them didn't work for the organization. So this stuff stacks up, you know, and carrying debt is a normal thing for professional sports franchises. Yeah. So there's debt and they're looking for investors to help offset the debt.

That seems like it's kind of just if you want like a quick way to explain it. It's all right. Don't freak out. As easy it is to say that from the outside. The last thing on the penguins very quickly here, because of the ran and trade, I think, think and because it looked like, oh, well, they're not done yet. And like, oh, they're opening up cap space. Another round of Sydney Crosby trade rumors came out.

And Josh Yoey, as you mentioned, has been in Utah. Obviously, he's been covering the team for a long time. He wrote something that's been like in the news again in Pittsburgh of people just talking to Sidney Crosby and then talking about Sidney Crosby saying, like, leave him alone. Like, stop doing this. Like, and it's gotten to the point where it's almost like disrespectful, like, how. how many more times are we going to have the same conversation and have Sidney Crosby have to come out and say, like, I'm playing where I want to be?

I think people need to take Sidney Crosby at his word. That's what I always say when this comes up. I kind of thought that the contract extension would be the end of it. Thought, hoped, figured, whatever. And it's not. And part of that's because the team stinks. And there's always going to be those discussions that happen around any team that has, you know, that's out of the playoff chase effectively in January, right?

You're going to wonder whether their best players are headed elsewhere, only dialed up more when the best player happens to be, you know, one of the four best hockey players of all time. So understandable. But man, this guy, everything he said at every turn suggests that all he wants to do is finish his career with the Pittsburgh Penguins. He says it whenever he's asked, Rossi, Rossi asked him last week.

Taylor Haas from, from, from D.K. Pittsburgh Sports asked him a couple days ago. He reiterated it. Then it's a question he has to answer, you know, with, with some regularity. And the answers are always the same. So the fact that, you know, we're doing this, whether it's, you know, Canadian TV networks or whether it's, whether it's biz on Twitter, whoever it is, man. like at some point you would think that those guys are going to take what he says seriously and certainly not turn it into a thing where the day that Miko Ranton gets traded we have Kevin Weeks sending the Pittsburgh the Pittsburgh Skyline Ivall which which Kevin Weeks is as

plugged in as anybody and whenever he says anything like that you know the the alarm bells go off like people are connecting when when Paul and Ryan like talk about stuff like people listen to like That podcast has an enormous following. The biggest. And they played for the penguin. So people like hear that and go like, ooh. So the frenzy was just. No, they're the biggest,

biggest hockey podcast in the world. And they got two guys who used to play with them. So, so they're going to take what they say seriously. That's just the way it goes. Then you have breadcrumbs out there at times from other insiders who are either either legit or not. And then you have guys like Biz and Whitney who are connecting the dots and making it

explicit and people lose their minds over it. But there's no, but like, Sid has never said anything at any point in his career in the last week, in the last year. Yeah. The, the, the, that suggests any differently, man, the, the dude knows what he wants. And I think people should start taking him seriously and start believing him when he says that this is, that this is what he wants for himself, for his career, for his family, for his future. Like, it's never changed. Yeah. Yeah. If he wanted to be, If Sydney Crosby wanted to play for the Colorado Avaland, she would be on the Aves. And he wouldn't be taking below market value deals in Pittsburgh. Like it's just whatever, just kind of tired subject that we don't have to talk about anymore on this podcast.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back on the Athletic Hockey Show. All right. Welcome back to the athletic hockey show. A little bit more news around the league to get to. Last night, Drew Doughty made his season debut for the L.A. Kings against the Florida Panthers. He missed the first 47 games the season after

breaking his ankle in a preseason game. Pretty significant addition back to the L.A. King's lineup. L.A. lost to the Florida Panthers, the defending Stanley Cup champions last night, but certainly a big thing for

L.A. for L.A. to have Drew Doughty coming back. Man, he was so good last year. I think that was a huge storyline coming into the season for me. was at least as a lace of the Kings is like it's not just that daddy was good either it said he was really interesting he had an interesting year i think i think last season we saw his transition into old man shut down defenseman you know eats tough minutes and succeeds in them yeah like we we saw that really come full circle right and he was he was fantastic and he was in the norris

discussion and he deserved to be because of the work he did defensively which is cool frankly, given where he was at points early in his career. So I mean, if they. It's his age too. Totally. Totally. Totally. Just coast and be like, I'm Drew Doty.

Like, I don't need to do anything. I was a Hall of Famer five years ago. Like, like, like, who cares? No. So I think, um, and the, and the, kings are good too. And they've, the way they've, uh, succeeded without him and, in, in replaced him kind of by committee in a lot of different ways,

starting with Brent Clark and Vladislav Gavikov and whatever. It's a, it's a really interesting situation. So whatever. You know, he's a 35-year-old that broke his ankle and needed surgery on it a few months ago. So we always got a temporary expectations for that. But, man, I'm interested to see where things go for him and for them moving forward. Yeah. He said after the game that that was as nervous as he's been before a game since his like NHL debut decades ago at this point.

Let's be careful on the Drew Dowdy is very old stuff here, please. please. What? He's been in the NHL for years. Oh, I know. I know. I'm sensitive. I just had a birthday.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like when people talk about how Sarah Nurse is getting older and I'm like, we're born in the same year. I'm going to. She's actually very young. Please leave me a lot. She's very youthful, still in her prime.

But yeah, he said he was very nervous. And, you know, it doesn't really matter how much you practice. Getting into a game is completely. different beast. So I guess the question with Drew Doughty for me, right now, less than like, how does this impact their chances? Like, will they beat the Edmonton Oilers in the first round of the playoffs this time? I don't know. No. Do you think, yeah, it's tough. I hate that for them so much. I hate that. I don't want to see another Kings Oilers first round. That's just devastating if you're a Kings fan. Producer Jeff, is in the chat doing math about me and Drew Doughty. And

I don't appreciate this. Yes, I was alive when Drew Doughty was alive. I was reading, I was reading picture books. Gross. I used to watch Drew Doughty play junior hockey in Guelph. Guelph Storm. Yeah, the Sleiman Center. So the question for me more than anything,

because like the playoffs in my stroller now. This is the, the hits keep coming here, huh? All right. this is how it's going to be. I'm significantly younger than Sean. Ha-ha. The question on Drew Doughty for me less about looking ahead

to the playoffs in a devastating first-round matchup we just know is coming. Is like, could he, is it too, is there going to be enough time for him to take the Alex Petrangelo slot for Four Nations for Team Canada? Can you believe we talked about this

yesterday, Frankie and Macken doing me and completely glossed over the Drew Doughty possibility. Well, that's why I'm bringing it up now because I respect your options, but respectfully, maybe we should bring Drew Doughty in instead. We love Chris Tanna. We love McKenzie Weeger, but Drew Doughty. If Drew Doughty, I feel like if his foot stays attached for the next four or five games, yeah, it's going to, it's going to be.

Yeah. Like, what is he, what needs to happen for him to, like, not get? Like he just needs to come out and look putrid to not get it. I can't imagine. If he doesn't want to go, then maybe he wouldn't go. But it's tough to imagine him not taking over. Taken over, taken over for Patrangelo for sure. He wants it.

It's clear. So it's hard to imagine I'm not getting it. That makes sense to me. But then maybe it's like, oh, like, Kevin Bouchard, sorry. I saw people say Bouchard is the Chris LaTang of this generation. He doesn't get any respect. Well,

Chris LaTang already had a, he already had a stealing cup ring by the time he was Evan Bouchard's age, so I don't know. Yeah. So, we'll see. Yeah. But yeah, he just kind of automatically

jumps to me as a potential replacement. The last bit of news in terms of four nations, we have some captains to announce, Sean. Captain for Team Sweden, Victor Hadman, I think we could have all guessed that. Captain for Team Finland is Alexander Barkov. The assistants were named two. Finland, you got Aho, Granlin and Miko Ranton all have A's. Ranan and Aho can really bond and then go dominate for the canes down the stretch. I love that for them.

It's very interesting. And the assistance for Sweden, we have Matias at home, Eric Carlson, and William Nielander. The captains for Canada and the U.S. will be out later this afternoon at 1 and 2 o'clock, 2 and 3 o'clock. They paste them all out. So, yeah, we don't know. I mean, we can assume, we don't know who's going to be Captain Canada. It's going to be Sidney Crosby. It would be crazy if it wasn't.

Now I'm just big brain being like, who could it be? No, no, no. What's going to happen? The disrespect for Sidney Crosby continues. The horrors persist. Travis Connected. Oh, my God.

Having a great year. That would be like foreshadowing that like Sid, Sidney Crosby is going to pull out of the tournament or something. Never, never, never. But who's going to be the captain of Team USA? I get. It'll probably be Austin Matthews. I would imagine.

I think he means a lot to USA hockey. Yeah, I think there's some symbolism there too. He's also the best, still the best American hockey player. I think there's plenty to be said for that. So I think it's, I think it's fair to assume. I think it's less of a slam dunk, though, than it is for Sidney Crosby. You should be the captain in Canada for sure. Yeah.

I don't know why I'm like over, I think I'm overthinking the USA Captain thinks. It's like, well, he's not like the veteran on the team. Maybe he'll give it to like Vince Trojan. What is Trader? And then I'm like, what am I doing here? I'm just trying to be like a weird podcast post and like

bring up some conversation that does exist. This is what happens when you go as long as the NHL has or as long as as NHL players have without playing. Oh, yeah. international hockey is that you look at the U.S. roster and there's no, you know, there is no Zach Parisi or, or guy like that who's, who's been to Olympics that's, that's part of the mix right now. So, so the choices get, the choices get a little, get a little dodgy. I would, I, I bet Dylan Larkin wears a letter. How about that? How about that for, for spicy?

That's fair. Who was the last captain of Team USA? I think it was Perisi. At the Olympics. Was it like Dustin Brown? I think was Preezy. Yeah? Yeah. I wish that was easier to find. Yeah.

I mean, it's, I mean, it might as well happen a million years ago, right? Like, that's just the way it's, it's 10 years ago. And it was Preezy, by the way. So I did, I did pull that correctly. And Zach Preezy, you know, he's retired. He's done. So that's that's, that's the way. It's like the problem in a nutshell is that USA doesn't have a slam dunk captain

captain choice because of how long it's been. Yeah. What about Quinn Hughes? Quinn Hughes is doing yeoman's work in Vancouver right now. That's clear. He's doing, he's the only thing that's going. They've won four straight now. So maybe we need to move on from that narrative.

But I got a lot of respect for the way Quinn Hughes is trying to least handle his own business in Vancouver right now. but yeah, that would be a tough one. He did a very funny, he did a very funny interview with my friend, Andy Petrillo on Prime. I guess it's only in Canada you didn't see it. He was just kind of like staring at the camera

while Andy was asking the question. He always looks very distressed. I worry for him. He'll probably get the letters, right? It'd probably be Austin Matthews with the C, Quinn Hughes and Dylan Larkin wearing A's. I bet they do. I bet they do three alternate captains.

Yeah, and then maybe like, would it be like, I'm just trying to think if they want to give an A to like a vet guy. Brock Nelson. No, I don't. Am I over thinking? I don't think so. Yeah. All due respect to Brock Nelson. That is.

Just have Brady and Matthew split one. Yeah. I have Matthew to see. See what happens. Yeah, see what happens. That's a good. That's a good way to phrase this. All right. So that's that we don't know those. We don't know those by the time the show comes out. You'll all probably know them. And then I sound incredibly dumb. But that's okay. I'm all right with that. You heard me talk about mythical creatures for 25 minutes. Before we end the show, we'd heard while we were recording that Sean Simpson, who is a figure in Ottawa, you know, former player, former member of the media in Ottawa. He was there when I, when I covered the Sends.

he died. We're seeing a lot of like tributes coming in for him. So we just wanted to say that our thoughts are with Sean's friends and his family. And we are thinking of everyone who, who loved and knew him. So thank you everyone for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show. Mark Lazarus and Max Boltman will have the next show on Monday that No Prospect Series this week. And then Sean and I will be back in our usual Thursday slot, coincidentally enough, next Thursday. Thanks, everyone. Thank you.