The Athletic Hockey Show - Why the Rantanen trade won't trigger an East arms race

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

Sean, Sean and Frank discuss the Eastern Conference GM's who went on the record with Pierre Lebrun after the Hurricanes acquired Mikko Rantanen and Taylor Hall from the Avalanche, and why none of them seem to be concerned about it. The guys discuss Canucks President Jim Rutherford and his strange comments regarding Elias Pettersson and JT Miller, the injury riddled Minnesota Wild and who might replace Alex Pietrangelo on Canada's blueline at the Four Nations Faceoff?Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frankie CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What up, what up? This is the athletic hockey show. I am Sean Sincilli. I am joined by my friends, Sean McAdo and Frankie Carrado. Today, we've got more Miko Rantin and stuff, a fallout from one of the biggest trades that I think any of us are ever going to see and come out of nowhere in January.

It continues. Folks are still talking about it. Pierre LeBron had some interesting conversations in one way or another with a group of Eastern Conference General Managers. We're also going to talk Four Nation face off. Pretty big roster news coming out of Canada. Alex Petrangelo is out. Who is headed in?

That's all coming down the pike. But first, Frankie, I'd like to start with you. I would send some interesting video on the Blue Sky Social Network. There was a Leafs alumni game over the weekend that you were involved in. Yeah. This is correct. Yeah.

You got you got stuffed in the shootout and I, there were boots on the ground who recorded it happening. Really? I'm not even going to out who did those. Oh, man. Walk us through that. What happened there? I was asked to get your thoughts on getting,

this is the, this is the, uh, O'D Neal at, you know, on blue sky. Um, I was asked to get your thoughts. getting stuffed. Well, I mean, no one mentioned... His word's not mine. No one mentions the fact that I had two goals already in the game, right? Like, we've just kind of casually omitted that significant detail.

They didn't have a box score on hockey reference for this one. I couldn't check and see what the alumni games. No one keeps track of assist, but we do keep track of goals. So there's a running tally within the alumni and they updated on the Instagram every so often. So no one, no one mentions that I had two. goals at that point. Whatever. I'm washed up. I'm actually not even washed up. I'm like a not a has been. It never was. But I tried to have a little bit of a move. You know, like I have my go-to move. I was like, yeah, I could do my like fake slap shot kind of thing and then bring it to the forehand.

Like, let me see if I could go backhand, but kind of forgot. We're playing on an ODR and the snow had built up quite a bit in front of the goaltender. So by the time I went to backhand the pot, there was just as much snow as there was puck. So yes, I did get stuffed. Thank you to whoever took that video for acknowledging my terrible move. And we move on. We move on. Two goals last game.

And next game. Who was the goal? Yeah. The goalie. Oh, we had two goalies from York University come out. Which is kind of better. Like, it's better that way, right? Like, those guys kind of an equal playing field.

They're pretty good. It's got to be better than, like, having some, you know, 42 year old get his gear on and blow out of his, like 68 year old, Alan Bester out there. We had trees come

out. We had La Forrest come out for a game. And he had just gotten new knees. And this was a couple years ago. It just got new knees. Couldn't go down. But I am, when I'm telling you, this guy like was doing the kick save and we won the game. We played against the cops up in Sudbury, who were actually pretty good.

And trees was unbelievable. Couldn't go down, but made enough saves for us to win that game. So you guys beat the cops. Congratulations. That's the last time we beat the cops. We've lost them two years in a row. Go Leaps.

Yeah. Sean, did you play at any alumni hockey games? No, I didn't get the invite, but I wouldn't have had two goals. I put it that way. Software company alumni game. Yeah, exactly. Out in the parking lot. We used to go.

We used to play every lunch ball hockey in the parking lot, and we were right next to the highway. So every now and then somebody would get under a slap shot and put it onto the highway. And I'll just say, if you've never seen an orange hockey ball hit the windshield of a truck going to 100 kilometers an hour, like the physics on that are fascinating. And also, people don't really like the driver. Driver not psyched about that one. Yeah. Driver, driver wasn't crazy about it. But that was, that's, that's as close as I'm going to come. Did have some two goal games in those. There we go. There we go. Yeah. we do have actual NHL stuff to talk about.

We had a pretty beefy rumblings column from Pierre dropped this morning. This is Wednesday morning. We'll start with the top. And Pierre states it plainly the lead is the question was a rather simple one. And it was. He asked Eastern Conference teams whether the Miko Renton Blockbuster, which, you know, the main, for our purposes, the main results there, Miko Rinton and Taylor Hall end up on the Carolina Hurricanes. A really good team gets a whole lot better.

That's been covered extensively everywhere. There's a zillion pieces up. I'm sure they talked about it yesterday as well on the pod. So we're not going to relitigate that. But the bid of news to come out this morning is that, guys, this is going to shock you. Seven Eastern Conference General managers are like, nope, that's fine. This doesn't change how we're doing stuff. In various ways, you have Treloving saying that.

of Chris Patrick for the cap saying that Julian Breeze what, Tom Fitzgerald, Bill Zito gave the longest answer to Pierre there, but all those guys are saying essentially you know, all systems go. This doesn't change anything. I buy it. Alter. Yeah, do you?

I buy it. Oh, I'm bought in on that. 100%. And I could see DGB just looking at me scoffing, shaking his head already, but I absolutely buy it. Okay. Did we not budget for the Carolina Hurricanes being a really good team? Like, yeah, they're better.

They got ranted and they got Taylor Hall. But it doesn't change necessarily like the complexion of the Carolina Hurricanes. They are not all of a sudden this team that is going to run away with things in the Eastern Conference. They've addressed the need. They addressed a need that they need to score more. And that's been one of the biggest hurdles for them come playoff time.

They still have an issue in net. Like I'm not convinced that the reliability will be there. And even if, you know, it is like the ability will be there for that team in net. So there's still a question mark with Carolina. They're not out of the woods. And I think if you went through those teams, like for Toronto, I don't think it changes, you know, if you wanted to draw the comparisons to Marner,

I don't think, I don't think the two are related. Toronto would have had a plan with Marna regardless of what was going to happen with Rantan. That doesn't change. You know, and I still think teams look at it and say, it's anyone's game in the Eastern Conference. Like Carolina getting Miko Rantanin,

while it's a significant trade, it's an upgrade for them. I don't look at it and say, well, Cain's own the East now and everyone's playing for second place. So I do buy it. I buy it too in the sense that before I opened the post

that Pierre wrote my thought was yeah, these guys are all going to be a bunch of gutless cowards and say that they're not going to do anything and lower expectations and make it very clear that they don't feel any particular obligation to do their jobs. And look, some of the guys you mentioned are some of the best GMs in the league. So, you know, I don't buy that they're necessarily telling the truth.

This is kind of one of those situations where I can't get too worked up because it's kind of that what else are they going to say thing. Like, I mean, Julian Breezeball isn't going to be like, yeah, actually, we're pretty desperate now. Like, we got to, you know, we really got to chase it. The ones that surprised me a little bit were the Metro guys. I mean, if you're in the Atlantic, okay, you're not going to see Carolina if you, you know, assuming you finish at the top of the division. You're not going to see Carolina until round three. That's pretty far away. And certainly there's no guarantee that matchup even happened.

So maybe that, you're, you know, you're okay. I'm a little surprised from the New Jersey perspective and also from Washington. Because I think as great a story as Washington's been all year, this is kind of potentially one of those just magic ears where every, is clicking and everything you're getting the absolute ceiling performance, take advantage of that. Are you just going to let that slide? One of the last chances you're going to have with the Ovecgan era, you sure you don't want to go and maybe be a little bit more aggressive, especially when the team that's chasing

you just got, I think, significantly better. That doesn't mean that I expect Washington to come out and say, like, yes, absolutely, we have to make a move now, but they should be feeling it. I'd hope. The caps are the one from that group where I almost understand that response the most because they've already had their super splash trades. They happened over the summer. I'm not sure what else is left for them from a cap perspective, from like an asset

perspective. I don't know where else they can get appreciably better because they went out and added, you know, Peerloult-Bois for a gazillion dollars and they went out and added Jacob Chick-erner. They went out and added Andrew Mangiopani, Logan Thompson, who they just signed to a pretty significant extent. Like he's going to be making almost $6 million a year. They also made their pre-trade deadline move already, like with Lars Eller, right? Like, there's your depth move.

That's your, that's a depth move. But I mean, you're right, they had a fantastic offseason. They didn't give up a ton in any of those moves. In fact, a lot of those, we were, you know, I know up here in Ottawa, the Jacob Chirkin move, a lot of people are like, oh, man, that's all that the team had. to give up to get him. Pierre-Luc de Bois was not, you know, they, they, they swapped one problem for another in in that move. So there should still be some meat on the bone for, you know, for this organization if they

choose to do it. I mean, the flip side is you can say, hey, man, everything's going great. Let's not touch anything. Are we really a contender? You know, is this, is this really a year? But I go for it, man. Windows, windows don't open all the time. Take advantage.

I will say, like, from, from this vantage point, you know, know, now not being a player, media side of things. I love when GMs are willing to go for it, make the big move, make the splash. But how many times has the team that made the big splash in season worked come playoff time to the point where it's like that's the thing that put you over the edge? Like when the Florida Panthers went out and got Claude Jureau, that was the year they won the president's trophy, I believe. And they got Ben Chirade as well.

Like that didn't do it for them. When Colorado won, it was like the Arturi-Lekinin trade that really helps bolster things for them. I feel like all the big moves that really work happen in the offseason, like Jack Eichel, you know, going to Vegas. I don't know. I think there's still something to be said for that. Like the team that gets the big one, you know, come trade deadline or pre-trade deadline, like unless I'm forgetting something, I don't know when the last time that team, one, correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to sound like an idiot after, you know,

I mean, some of them have, yeah, like not, it's not very often at the deadline, but I, you know, I would argue that the team that goes out and gets, gets the biggest name available, whenever that is available has a pretty good track record. I mean, you look at Vegas with, with Jack Eichel, which was, that was early in the season, but it still felt like the offseason as he hadn't played yet and all of that. Yeah, it felt like a trade that was 18 months coming or whatever. Right. The one that I always noisy leading up to that.

Yeah. The one that I always come back to is Matthew Kichick in Calgary where, you know, the news comes out that he, he wants out, he's not signing an extension.

We get a week of rumors and, you know, everybody looking at different teams, different scenarios, talking about, you know, and immediately, 90% of those teams going,

well, you know, this guy's untouchable and we wouldn't want to move this guy and being all cute about it. And then a team that nobody was really thinking about, the Florida Panthers just come in, elbow their way to the front of the crowd and go, this is our offer. Calgary goes, that's a great offer. We'll take it. And, you know, Panthers have been winning ever since.

I guess that's, you know, there is something to be said for just being aggressive and going and getting going and finding a way to get better. And remember, that was a Florida team that had just won the president's trophy. So it wasn't like they were a bad team. Because the only way they were going to do that is if they sent out significant money to be. And there were every, like, I wrote one myself. We were like, who are the teams that could, that could acquire Matthew Kachuk? And it was St. Louis and it was whatever. People didn't account for the fact that Bill Zito would be willing to send out Jonathan Eubredo, right?

So weird stuff happens. You know, we can sit here and say, Team X doesn't have money, but you can always, you can create money. If you're willing to move someone that. It's so frustrating to me as like a, like a longtime fan of the trade game in the NHL. like you're allowed to trade players for other players. It doesn't always have to be picks and prospects. Like a week ago, we could have been sitting there going, ah, who's really got room for Miko Ranton?

And in the nine million in the middle of the season? Well, yeah, you can do it. You can figure it out. You trade a guy who's at $6 million and you work in another team to do some retention for you. There's ways for it to be done. I know, I know I say this all the time. The NBA can throw together a five-team trade.

It would like 48 hours notice. These guys are just apparently much smarter than the NHL GMs who are like, it's all so complicated and overwhelming for them that in trading a third round pick for a second line winger is, you know, takes an entire three months for them to figure out. Well, I guess to bring it back to where we started. Like my point is I can understand the other GMs not necessarily sharing any kind of sense of panic or, hey, this changes things for us because that move, the deadline move, the pre-deadline move, it's like everyone was kind of accounting for some variation of that, whether it was

ranting in or, you know, I don't know, like if it was the guys in Vancouver who got moved, right? And like you talk about money and money out, those are two big money players, especially Pedersen, like when that trade or these trades end up happening, because it sounds like they're going to happen. Like we're going to see, not going to call it seismic, but it's going to have to be cap-wise in order to retain whoever you have coming back,

whether it's Miller or Pedersen. There's going to have to be significant money going out the door. And that means there's a significant player or two significant players going out the door. My two main thoughts about this, about, you know, the peer post today is nobody surprised me. I'm not,

am I shocked that Tom Fitzger Harold went on record and said like, no, all systems go. We have a process in place. We're going to stick to it. Like, of course not. What I thought maybe we were getting when I opened up that post was there was going to be one rogue dude who went, who anonymously maybe. Like, like, you know, it could have been there.

I talked to two general managers who said off, who said, you know, under the, under the, under the demand for anonymity that like Tulski put us all on notice or whatever. I thought maybe we, I thought maybe we would get that. and we didn't. And that I think was kind of, was kind of disappointed. Let me ask you something. Do you think that's the hockey guys,

not wanting to give the analytics guy? Perhaps. Perhaps. You got to want it. You got to want it. None of whom were former NHL players, you know, three,

you know, not necessarily analytics based GMs. But I got to say this, man, um, we're all a suit. We're talking as if Caroline is done. Mm-hmm.

I'm not necessarily, I mean, Carolina just showed us, you know, I don't think they played every card in their hand. I think they showed that they're serious. They're all in. So, I mean, you mentioned the goaltending, Frankie. Who knows? There may be more room to improve. And the last thing I'll say real quick, and this will probably take us in in the next subject,

you want one team that I think should perk up based on this and should maybe change your strategy. And it's not one of the contenders, if I'm Buffalo and I just saw one of Vancouver's trading partners make a big move, that probably takes them out of the running, probably. Okay, I'm Kevin Adams. It's go time. Enough. Enough being cute. Let's get this done.

I kind of, I kind of picture Jimmy Rutherford like this right now. Like you guys wrestling fans back in the day, were you? Did you watch it? Yes. You know when the day, uh-huh. Definitely back in the day.

Not now. Not now, definitely a long time ago. Well, you know when the tag team match is going and buddies's in there and he's just getting the wheels knocked off of them and he can't get up and his tag team partner is on the he's on the ropes he can't get in he's like dying to just take come on man tag me in like come on get to me and then finally his buddy finds a way to scratch and claw get to him just barely get him with this

fingertip and then his buddy comes in over the ropes and he's like boom elbows punches pile drivers it's like that's what jimmy rutherford is the gm hanging over the ropes just waiting to get tagged in and say, let me get to work because I'm going to clear this place out. Evan Adams crawling towards him. Come on. Come on. It's okay. That's a fantastic metaphor, I guess.

Tagging Jim Rutherford. Yeah, back, like, you know, further down the aisle, there's Patrick Oliver, like, aren't I the gym of this team? Aren't I supposed to be doing this? Oh, well, no, no big deal. He's like Paul Heyman just standing next to him with the belts. That's right. Yeah.

It should be the other way. It should be Jim Rutherford as Paul Heyman as the advocate for Patrick Alveed. But whatever, that's all, we can, we can string out brutal, brutal wrestling metaphors even further later on if we want. What we were missing was a classic Jim Rutherford, you know, crashes, crashes through the window and talks to, talks to someone with the media on the record and gives it, gives a wild set of quotes. We hadn't got that in a while. I was starting to think Jimmy had lost his fastball or lost the desire to shake things up with a wild media interview. That's been resolved.

Talks to the Globe and Mail, the Toronto Globe and Mail yesterday. A series of wild quotes. He's admitting that Miller and Pedersen don't like each other basically, which is, you know. Which is crazy because I was assured that the media had made that up. Yeah, we were just causing trouble. And I guess we just wished it into existence. He told the Globe and Mail during an interview on Monday, I felt for a long time like there was a solution here because everyone has worked on it,

including the parties involved. But it only gets resolved for a short period of time and then it festers again. And so it certainly appears like there's not a good solution that would keep this group together. That's laying it bare. You know what the best thing is? I am fascinated. No. What is going on here?

Like I need and I'm I understand we're not going to get it anytime soon. I'll wait 20 years for the book to come out or whatever. But I need to know what is happening because I don't think I've ever seen anything like this in in sports where it has like I've seen I've seen things blow up quickly and just instantly they get somebody out of there. But like to have this fester this long like Frankie, what is happening here? Is this, does this happen on the alumni team sometimes? Is it like, no.

alumni is a tight group, man. This stuff don't happen in the alumni games. You know what? So I think now the fact that this has all come to light and it's very exposed and Jim Rutherford has, you know, kind of alluded to it so many times now. It's come to the forefront. Now you go back and you retrace the steps, you know, after Jimmy Benning is gone and Rutherford and Albin come in.

And now you start to question things, or I do anyways. Because I'm like, well, why did you trade Horvatt if he was the guy in the room that smoothed everything over and he was the captain? He was the one that kind of. And then, you know, you prioritized Miller, knowing that this was an issue with Patterson, you prioritized Miller over Horvatt. That all of a sudden doesn't make a lot of sense. It didn't make sense at the time. Now it doesn't make any sense to me. So, and then you said, we signed Miller.

We got rid of Horvatt. Now we're going to commit to Elias Pedersen for a long time as well. and we are going to give him a boltload of money for a long time. How does that make any sense? How did you get here? Well, you kind of miscalculated things thinking that, well, we're going to be good and these guys are going to figure it out. It's like, well, that clearly didn't happen. Like somewhere along the way, I mean, it's hindsight 2020.

But wouldn't you think that you, you know, as a group, you would have a man-to-man, a deep conversation and say, listen, we know this is not going to work with these two guys. year. We had to do something different along the way. The players are the ones that did this, but the management didn't do themselves any favors with how they've kind of kept this going. It's reasonable to assume that two adults, like two grownups, professionals who are well paid and whatever else, can figure it out at some point. And that's clearly what the bet has been for the last six years or however like Patterson and Miller. are going to figure it out too much at stake not to their grown-ups but da-da-da-da-da.

Like it's a reasonable assumption because it happens all the time. We've like, I've been around teams. God knows, Frank, you've been on teams. We're not, not everybody's, not everybody's buddy-buddy. There are guys that don't like each other. And 99 times out of 100, they move on and figure it out in, you know, in all as well. Or it's a position where one of those guys get straight. and the other one, and the other one sticks.

This is the rare instance where it's two guys who just don't like each other. It's two people who just clearly have decided in one way or another, whether it's a one way straight or not, that they don't mess with the other one. That's it, that they don't have time for it. And then there are also the team's two best, the two best forwards on the roster, guys who are paid a gazillion dollars for like, for a gazillion years. And it's got them between a rock and a hard place.

It really is. It's a combination of all these different factors, it's personal issues, how much money they make, um, in the, in the fact that they have just decided at some point, like it just, it just is unworkable. Because that's to me, that's the most interesting part of, of, of the Rutherford conversation is that he's clearly just like, this is, we've tried everything. Like, this is like this. And it's, it's not going to work. Those guys have decided at some point that they, that neither has time for the other. And, you know, here we are. It's, and it's, it's, it's wild, but it does happen. Like, sometimes people just

don't like each other. And you work with a person who you can't work with anymore. And in the solution here, because it's a hockey team is that one of them has to get traded. That's the way it goes. And it's, it's, it's, you know, there's a good chance that this. And I mean, imagine you're Elias Pedersen. And, you know, we, we don't know who's causing what. We don't know who's starting the problems. So we don't know, you know, but clearly he's in the middle of it. Clearly he's had sit downs where people have said to him, like, we got to let this. And you know, we've got to let this go. We've got to figure it out. And he hasn't been able to do it. And now there's a very good chance he's going to wind up in Buffalo or Columbus or somewhere like that that that he

might not want to be for eight years, locked in on a deal because they couldn't figure this out. The only thing that I can say is here's what I think would make the situation better if I'm Jim Rutherford. I think you got to drop Quinn Hughes's name into this now. I think you got to put him on the trademark. Incredible. That was unbelievable. That was unbelievable. that he unprompted. Like that's that is classic Tim Rutherford too

because he's answering a question that wasn't asked. And I said I and it happened with me plenty of times and I watch it happen with it with other people. I mean he's he's the best in that regard for a reason. He just starts talking. And then it's like well like this isn't what

you jump from topic A to topic B and then before you know it it's like Quinn Hughes is getting traded. But here's the here's the full quote. But before we're going any further into that because it's crazy. if we were going to completely start over, that means he goes. In this instance, he is Quinn Hughes.

If we're going to completely start over, that means he goes and we'd like to figure out a way that he's here for, like I thought we figured out the way that he's here forever. I thought that was the long-term gazillion dollar. Like, how are we? Oh, goodness, goodness gracious. That's off the top rope. That's flying elbow off the top rope right into the sternum.

Like, that's what he was waiting to do. Have you guys thought of all the different ways the Canucks lose in this scenario. Like, play it out any which way you want. Like, let's say, let's say Miller gets traded and Pedersen's the guy you keep. If you think about all the different ways they can lose that. Well, half the room may have thought Miller was in the right. You never know how guys think in the room.

And so now you got half a room that didn't want to see Miller go. The other thing, now you've put all your eggs in the Pedersen basket. Well, what if he's not the 100 point guy or the 95 point guy? What if he's more like the guy? I'm not saying he is. but like these are potential scenarios. And if you put the, you know, vice versa, if Pedersen's the guy to go, now you've what,

doubled down, triple down on Miller in there? And what if there are guys that are like, I'm kind of sick of this too. Like we saw it with Elias, right? And then what if both guys go? And then Quinn Hughes looks at it and says, well, the guys we got in return don't make us a better team. In fact, make us a worse team on the ice,

even though maybe stuff has been cleared out in the room and it's a different environment. like there's there's so many more ways that this goes bad for the Canucks than good, especially in the short term. Like I think over time, right, like, but no one wants to think,

especially with a team that has this in place, number one goalie when he's healthy, one of the best defensemen in the NHL, you know, great one two punch down the middle of the ice, good scoring wingers. They have everything. It's crazy.

But you just, you don't want to have to say, okay, now we got to lay out a five year plan here to get ourselves back to this point. There's too many ways you lose. Do you remember after they traded for for Philip Hironick and everyone was up in arms about that? Then it turned out that he was a good partner for Quinn Hughes.

Everyone's like, okay, mission accomplished. Everything else is fixed. They have the guy you can play next to the Norris candidate for the next five or six years. Like, let's start winning a set up series. You know why that was? I could tell you exactly why. There was so much scar tissue in Vancouver from the previous regime as far as, far as trading picks for guys that were, you know, didn't fit where the team was going.

Like they tried to expedite things so many times and it just never worked and were like, they were like, why are we sacrificing the future of this club for a little bit of a marginal improvement? And it turns out like they were closer than I think some of the fan base may have thought. So that move with Heronic made a lot of sense. And actually, you know, if you look at it now the packages that are going to have to come back for these guys are going to have to include some kind of defensemen that can play because now they're at the point where they can't even play heronic and hughes together anymore because they just they have to spread out the puck moving they're they're just they didn't build it the right way there's another thing though you know

like that gets overlooked they went out and they signed forbert and vinny day harney and they let ian cole walk and it's like you know you re-signed tyler meyers like you guys kind of built a back end and forgot that, you know, the puck has to get out of your zone too. So they're going to need a defenseman back as much as they're going to need a centerman back. Yeah. And Bowen Byram is good to be that guy. So get on it, Kevin Adams.

Uh-oh. Make this happen. I loved, I love the, I love the Frankie Doctor Strange impression from Infinity War where he's like, I see 14 million scenarios for the Vancouver Canucks and only one of them works out the way they wanted to. I think that's, I think that's what we just got. Yeah. Any more thoughts on that?

Or are we done with Jim Rutherford, shocker segment? No, we just wait for Jimmy to get tagged in now. It's all we can do. It's time. All right. Next up, we're talking Four Nation face off. Big news out of Canada.

Alex Petrangelo will not be part of the tournament. We're talking who replaces him potentially, who would, who should, and also some bad news for the Minnesota Wild as well. It's after the break. fellas were like two weeks out from the Four Nations face off feel the excitement are you ready for it man the buzz it's uh you can feel it everywhere man frankly frankly quietly nodded i think i think that lets you know right no i think it's gonna be good

like i think once we get there it's going to be good it's going to be exciting hockey it's just it doesn't feel like the buzz has really ramped up if anything the buzz is going the other way. It's like, we know Petrangelo's not playing. Who else is not going to be playing? And who replaces him? Like, that's the buzz right now on this tournament. Sunday night, Sunday night we got the announcement from Vegas that Alex Petrangelo will not be taking part in the tournament to nurse various ailments. Very funny that he went on and played 24 minutes for the NHL team. That's it. Right. Because like Markstrom being out, all right, so he's going to have to replace him. Fine. We knew this was going to happen. Some guys are going to get hurt. it's the guy going, no, I'm too hurt to play in two weeks, but I'm going to play tonight.

And boy, I tell you, if, I want this tournament to work. I still, all joking aside, like I still am excited for this. I think it can work. I hope it does. But we get one of these. We can have one guy do this and it'll be okay. The second, third guys who start pulling this and this is where it starts to fall apart. Because then suddenly you got all these teams looking at their start.

players going. So do you prioritize winning a Stanley Cup with us or is it, do you want to go play in an exhibition game? And, you know, what is like Austin Matthews and all these other guys who, you know, maybe not been 100 percent? And then it falls apart real quick. If you get the, you know, once, once this becomes normalized as a thing that star players are just going to do. Patrangelo, too, he was like front and center for the rollout of the roster. He was the guy who was making the meteor rounds. Like it was Alex Petrangelo talking, talking on talking to us and talking to, talking on TV

about how Sexti was to play to play best on best again. And he's, he's the one, he's the one that pulls out. Hard traitor. It's like, it's going to happen more. Guys are going to be pulling out. I hope, you know, to DGB's point, I hope it's a different scenario.

Like it's the lenest all marks of the world. Like, don't forget, Yanni Hockenpa is still on Finland's roster. Like, he is not playing. He's played two games if, you know, like, kind of, you know, two games, if you want to call it that, like, it didn't play much anyways, but like, he is not, he's not going to be playing. So there's, there's, there's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's played a gazillion games. It doesn't matter that he's had. Vacanin is right there as well, like, you know, um, so this is, this is going to

happen. Um, the crazy thing is the time. of the Petrangelo, like, you almost didn't have to announce it quite just yet and then go play 24 minutes. Like, you almost kind of wait, find a pocket in the schedule where you're coming off a game, maybe you have a few days off, and then play after that. Because you could say, okay, I nursed it, you know, take a maintenance day, miss a practice. You know, it's so, it's just so like brazen that you're just like, yeah, I'm not playing. And, like, I played 25 minutes the other night.

Yeah, and the NHL was asked about, you know, they have the whole rule with the All-Star weekend, where if you're selected to that and you want to skip it, you will be suspended unless you miss at least one game on either side of it. Basically, if you're too hurt to play, fine, but if you're healthy enough to play for your team, you've got to be healthy enough for the All-Star weekend. They're not doing that for this, which I'm not sure that I want them to do it for this, but it really makes it feel, doesn't it? like the NHL views this tournament as a lower priority than the All-Star weekend, which is the lowest intensity, least interesting thing that the league does all year. I actually, I think there's probably,

I would disagree with that because I would say, I think there's still more incentive for guys to play this. I think the All-Star game, like if you didn't have those parameters in place, guys would just be like, yeah, I'm not doing that. You know,

I did an all-star game. You know what I mean? Like we just, so then we'd be asking, you know, guys that kind of have, business being there to play in it. Like I think they have to have the protection for the All-Star game.

I still think as much as, you know, we got this Petrangelo news, there's like, we heard McKenzie Weger say he's got a nice vacation plan to Mexico, but he's happy to change it at the last minute, you know, so I still think there is a lot of incentive for guys to go play in this, even though the Petrangelo situation just happened. Well, let's talk about the replacements. I think I think Weger was a guy certainly that the three of us talked about as maybe not a surprising snub because all those guys who are on the initial roster, they're all studs, right? Like, you can't get all that wound up over, over, over any of that.

But weger was a guy who seemed like because of his versatility, he can play both sides, he can play in all situations, that he was a guy who would make sense to have, if only is the seventh, the seventh there? Frankie, is he still, is he still your top pick to step in? I think, I've kind of narrowed it down to a three-pack that I think you can't go wrong with at this point. and I'll give you a reason why on each guy. Chris Tanev gets a lot of play, especially here in Toronto, because we see him a lot.

And, you know, shut down, ability to get the puck out of his own zone, ability to transition it. Not going to give you offense, but can play key big minutes against really good players with ease. So I don't think you could go wrong with Chris Tanna. McKenzie Waker's another one. All the reasons you just alluded to, like, but he's also like physically strong, durable. able to withstand a lot. I think McKenzie Weger, if he was the guy that was picked,

no one would bat an eye. The other name that I haven't seen floated around as much, and I'm curious to get your thoughts on why that would be, is Aaron Eckblatt. Because if Petroangelo's coming out, if you look at Aaron Eckblad and you say,

okay, right-handed shot, plays on the top pair, has won a Stanley Cup recently, plays like a shutdown role but can move the puck and gives you a little bit of offense as well. I think if you watched Aaron Eklad play over the last two years in the regular season, but even in the playoffs, how do you not look at that and say,

that's an easy fit? That replaces what Alex Petrangelo does, maybe better than anyone else. That's not a bad name to throw out there. And you're right. I hadn't heard that one very much. The other two names that you've kind of heard a little bit, just because they're righties is Dougie Hamilton and Evan Bouchard.

I don't feel like, you know, on my roster, I would be looking at those guys because I was one of those people who looked at the team candidate roster and thought, man, there might not be enough offense here. They might have, they might have got to be too focused on the defensive end. But clearly, that's where those guys are focused. So I think it's much more likely to be one of the three that, uh, that you mentioned. I still think, you know, I think McKenzie Wigar is probably the next guy up, partially due to the versatility of Sean that you mentioned where, you know,

you can play both sides. But we'll see. scores a bunch of goals too. Yeah, Eckled's such an interesting guy because it feels like there are, when you get drafted first overall, it really kind of sets the expectations. And for a lot of guys,

it helps because they, I mean, we've known guys who get talked about like superstars, even though they don't have the production because they were first overall picks. And we're just all waiting for it to click. But with Eckblad, it's almost like, you know, he came in. He was the first pick. And, you know, because he hasn't been a Norris guy, it's like, oh, yeah, you just kind of forget about it.

But you take away, you know, strip that stuff away and just look at the, look at the numbers, look at the production, look at the play on the ice. He should be right up there with some of the other guys. It's an interesting name. I think his numbers are very similar to Petrangelo's this season. Ice time, very similar. Deployment, very similar. Like, success in the playoffs, big moments,

you know, playing against Star guys, having to shut down Connor McDavid, like all that stuff. Like, I think if you were going, if you had to go pound for pound, I need to replicate Alex Petrangelo. And I just want to plug and play the closest version of that. Is it Weeger,

Eckblad, Dougie Hamilton, Bouchard, like, who is it? I, my, I would put forward,

Aaron Eckblad would be the pound-per-pound plug-and-play replacement. Yeah. And if, if Kail McCar wakes up and he says that I need to nurse some ailments over the next over the next couple weeks, then maybe Bouchard is a bigger part of that discussion. Because you're going to need someone to come in and take the lion's share, the power play minutes and do Kail McCar-ish stuff.

And nobody's better suited for that than Bouchard, at least when it comes to guys who are available role. Right? Like, yeah. I think the biggest hesitation in Evan Bucer, Schard's a very good player. Don't get me wrong. But the biggest hesitation is that the big blunder seems to follow him. And in a tournament like this that's short against all the best players, I'm like, is he more prone to that in something like this? And I would say probably based on,

you know, how often we see it at the NHL level, even though he's, you know, he's good player, whatever. But that's what would scare me. But if, you know, we wake up one day and McCart can't go, it's like, okay, now I can have him on the team. shelter them at five on five, have them play on the power play. Like that works for me. But as long as McCar is there playing the first unit, like you still have Shea Theodore is going to play second power play.

Josh Morrissey could play second power. Like I still think you're covered on the power play side of things. So I don't necessarily see the need or the fit right now. Reasonable. As Team Canada brain trust figures this out, how closely do you think they're watching those three goalies to see if anyone stubbs the toe or anything like that? so that they can get a bit of a do-over on those picks,

maybe get Logan Thompson or whoever else. Doesn't find a way to slide in there. I tell you, if you're one of those three goalies and you want to be in this tournament, don't sneeze for the next two weeks in the presence of anyone from the Canadian front office because you might have an ailment. You see, you all says good.

Our boy, Mackenzie Blackwood, he's been fantastic. And by the way, can we just say, Like, there's, there's already talk about doing a World Cup in, in three years and all that. Great. Very cool. Can we not announce the rosters like three months before the tournament next time? Like, can we just do it a couple weeks or whatever? That seems like an unforced there.

I mean, they used to do that when they used to do this, well, I mean, not this tournament, but when they used to do the World Cup and the Canada Cup in like before training camp, like they had, they would invite like 40 players to camp. And then they would cut guys and then be like, right. home Steve Iserman and then they would play the tournament. Like we, I'm not saying we have to do that, but maybe we didn't need the,

like that November news stuff for a thing. Dude one time to, they want time to plan their vacations, man. Okay. That doesn't happen overnight. Click the little box on Expedia that says like refundable only. Like the whole day.

It's not like this is, this is not something that's happening every single year. Right. Like, so I think there's going to be a year that pops up where, hey man, if you're a bubble player, you just got a book it last minute.

And your wife and your girlfriend, she's got to be okay with that. You know, like this is, it's just the reality. The wife and the girlfriend on the vacation? Wow. Well, probably shouldn't. Probably, you know what I'm saying. Anyways, two different resorts.

Two different rallies go down with that answer to. Yeah, you sent like the AI version of you to Mexico and their real version goes to the Bahamas. Yeah, different colored carnation on your tuxedo for, for each girl. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, it's the Mrs. Doubtfire move, I think, is what I call that.

All right, we do want to talk about the Minnesota Wilde real quick. We want to flip it back to an NHL team. Curl Capriza out for a month, give or take, after some surgery, he'd missed a bunch of games before that. Fellas, they're 11, 13, and O in their last, since whatever, the second week in December. Is this team cooked or not?

because Capriazov does so much for them and we know what they look like without him, even though they treaded water to some extent when he was out last time. Are we sticking a fork in them if he misses four or five weeks here? No. No, I just think they, like they, yes, they will miss him. We saw what they are without him. They're a totally different team.

But I still feel like, you know, Billy Garon was talking on the radio here in Toronto yesterday about how everyone's kind of bought into the team details. And John Hines has kind of built that up and it's so deeply embedded there. I feel like they will tread water. Are they going to excel? It's going to be hard without Caprizov. But I don't think this sinks them based on what they've built so far this season.

So Billy G went on the radio and gave them some flowers on Monday after torching them. Yeah, isn't that interesting? Like different markets, hey? Like, yeah, in Toronto, he was giving them flowers. Yeah. I don't think they're cooked because this is not an injury that we're told is going to go into the playoffs, which is the key. And, you know, Minnesota was one of those great first half stories.

And that feels like it's a long time ago because they haven't been good for a while. And now with this injury, we don't expect them to be good for a little bit. but those points count. Those points are in the bank. And he gave them a cushion. Now, seven points ahead of Calgary, eight points ahead of Vancouver,

who are the two teams who even and a Vancouver team that conceivably could be getting worse. And you're going nowhere fast. And Calgary can't score. Like Calgary can't score. So get into the playoffs with a healthy team and, you know,

I don't think you're cooked. But that said, this is, I mean, this is a team that a month ago even, we were saying, these guys could win the Central. And now it doesn't, home ice feels like a big long shot, let alone maybe they're the wild card team and, and, you know, they're, they're going in as an underdog.

But given where they were at and given the all the cap space they got freeing up in the summer, I still don't think this is a lost year for them to kind of show, even for a half a season, show what they can do when they're healthy. Well, you also got to remember like the four weeks, you know, what is it, two weeks of that is going to be four nations face off, right? So you're not playing during that. So that cuts into actual games played, which is a great bounce. Like the timing of it actually works out quite well with this tournament around the corner for them.

Yeah, when you either are going to play the Jets or the stars, the Oilers, or Vegas. Like, that was true a week ago, and it's probably going to be true a month from now. Like, it's just luck of the draw with who you end up if you slot in as, if you slot in as a wildcard team. So yeah, I'm not. probably want Winnipeg out of all those teams, right? I mean, given... We're not allowed to say that. We're not allowed to say that the Jets may be heard or not, you know, the best team in the West.

I would want Colorado to be honest with real. Just given the, given the playoff history there recently. Yeah. Maybe that's the one we see. I would want Colorado because I, you know, I know we talked about the Ranton and Trade. It kind of feels like Colorado's kind of said, not our year. Not this year. We're going to clear the deck.

a couple years away, sign some players, like make some trades, whatever. Like, we're kind of waiting for a couple years from now because there's honestly seven teams in the West that you could look at and say, I could build a case for why I don't want to see those guys in the playoffs. You know, when it's that strong, you kind of look at it and say, all right, not our year. Because the year that Colorado won, I mean, I don't know what you guys were saying, but I think a lot of people were saying it's Colorado and everyone else. Five seasons. Five seasons. They're at the top of everything.

That was the way I felt clearly. Clearly was not correct. Enjoy Martin H's, I suppose. Yeah, see how that goes. Frankie, what's up with you this week? Oh, what's up, boys? I'm home. I'm home.

A little sports center today. Jets panel, DGV's favorite team tomorrow, playing the Bruins. And then a little radio on Friday. And then back in Montreal for Super Bowl weekend, which is a great tradition. they do two one o'clock games Saturday and Sunday the following weekend. So looking forward to that. Enjoy it, man. Any long weekend of Montreal is great.

I feel like I feel like I have an excuse to go. I'm hoping I get, I'm flying out after the game Sunday night. So I'm hoping I get one of the planes with the live TV so I can watch the Super Bowl on the plane. That would be nice. Oh my God. I'm making you guys fly during, that's unacceptable. Well, it's my choice.

My choice. That's true. That's all that matters. All right, man. Enjoy the week at home. We'll talk you next one. Hey, boys. See ya.

Thanks as always the Frankie. Sean McHen-Doo. What have we learned? What have we learned, Sean? What I learned this week is that hockey fans in Ottawa get very, very upset when a giant anthropomorphic lion puts on a half of a Quebec Nordic's jersey. They don't like that.

And I will say, I thought that was just something that happened there on the wreck, but whatever. I will say, I kind of get it. I actually kind of will defend the overreaction here. Senators fans get a little sensitive about the Quebec City thing. They have heard rumors of Quebec City having their eye on their team for a little while. And, you know, I think it makes a lot of sense for the Ottawa senators to try to move. beyond this very small market where they're, you know, and try to expand to other areas. And it's tough. Most of Ontario, you know, you get even just down to Kingston, it's mostly Lee fans down there.

And, you know, you're battling all the history and everything that goes there. But you get out into some parts of Quebec. And there's fans out there who are big hockey fans, but they're not going to cheer for the haps. Absolutely not. And so offering them, you know, an alternative where you're really extending the olive branch saying, we want to be your team, I think makes a lot of sense.

But I think the way that it was played out earlier this week with, if people didn't see it, Sparta Cat, the mascot had a half Senators jersey, half Nordic's jersey. It's a bridge too far. Which first of all, those are never good.

Never, never wear one of those. It's a jersey foul for anybody, let alone an actual team representative. And, you know, like I could understand, Have he made a senator's jersey waving like a little Nordic's pendant or something like that? But don't cut your crest in half.

I think that was the part that bugged a lot of them. But the senators got on top of it and did some PR damage control. I don't know who does that over there. But whoever it is probably had a rough Monday, but I think they came out of it. They came out of it okay. But lesson learned about how to dress a mascot. Don't get cute. I'm just glad we didn't see their VP of comms.

a half, half Sanders quarter zip and a half. That might have been Tuesday morning splint. We don't know. It could have been. I talked to Haley a lot last week about, she was in Quebec City for, for a PWHL game. Of course, that understandably ignited the,

you know, restarted the, what's the viability of Quebec City as a pro hockey market story. She wrote something very, very good to that effect. I, I knew, intellectually that people in Quebec City

were not Canadian fans. I get it. I think hearing some of the stuff that made it into the story and some of the stuff that didn't from her, I think that was reinforced

by stuff that happened last week. There is an opportunity there, I guess. I saw somebody and I can't, I think it was maybe on the, on Reddit, made a good point. They said, hey, send like fellow sense,

If you, if, if you hate it when Montreal and Toronto come to our building and take over and it's like, you know, like last weekend it was 80% leaf fans in the building, then expand the fan base. Like that's one way to do it. And Quebec City is far away from Ottawa. It's not like you're, you're going to be selling a ton of tickets to those guys. But yeah, do something to sort of reach out and expand it. It was just, it was just a little bit, a little bit clumsy. But lesson learned. And I think there, the, the, the overall.

attempt is a good one. Because I would hope that the folks in Quebec City are starting to realize that it's just not happening. With their own NHL team. The Nordic's are not coming back, whatever it is. And even the idea,

I like the idea of the senators going and playing a couple of regular season games. I think that's a good way to sort of, you know, reach out and extend your footprint into the market, but just not at the expense of bringing up some

some old wounds when it comes to senators fans being rightfully paranoid about Quebec City getting their hands on their team for as much good stuff as Michael Ian Lauer's done for it and for all the innerilands that they've made since it since he's bought the team like it's whatever he gets full marks for so much stuff a little bit of a heat check I feel like and it didn't it didn't it didn't go the way that he wanted to hey all I'm going to say is it's it's not a big deal we can all get passes I think the league does need to take away a first round pick from the senators. Just as a little slap on the wrist, just as a reminder.

And other than that, it's fine. We move forward. Forced them the trade chain pinto for nothing or whatever, whatever, whatever ends up happening. Or just you know, randomly suspend them for half the season and not tell us why. Like, it'd be normal. It's fine. Just normal.

Normal behaviors. And nothing to see here. What I learned is that Doug Armstrong seems to be coming to the conclusion that a lot of us already have, which is the St. Louis Blues are not a legit contending team. probably don't have the bones of a legit contender. They're not bad. Jordan Kyrie was having a nice season. Robert Thomas, you know, was hurt for a chunk of it. He's been productive. You know, there, there are pieces there. But the mix is off, man, because they're losing games again. Uh, they waived Brandon, they put Brandon sod on waivers a couple

days ago or yesterday, rather after trying to trade them, you know, didn't work out. This is, this is Doug Armstrong talking to St. Louis media, including Jeremy Rutherford yesterday about the entire topic. For a couple of years, we've really nibbled around the edges, bringing in different coaches, different support players, but the record is still the same. There's been a group that's been here for a while, and things don't seem to be changing. Collectively used to have to start chipping further and further up. Like, he's got the coach that he wants in Jim Montgomery.

He's made some superficial changes, bringing in Cam Fowler. Like, is this the moment where Doug Armstrong, walks past a mirror and catches and catches the reflection. I was like, ah, maybe, maybe I, maybe I built the ninth best team in the,

and, in the Western conference. Maybe it's not, maybe it's not everybody else. It seems like he's inching towards that conclusion. As, as of this morning, they're,

they're not even NHL fake 500, which is the absolute cutoff for being, even in the conversation of being a decent team. So, and you're right, he's, he did the, you know,

he, you can't say, you know, like we were talking at the beginning about timid GMs. You can't say Doug Armstrong's been that guy because he did the two offer sheets, which obviously was was unprecedented. Also, Dylan Holloway's been incredible too. Like that's like that worked. So he nailed it.

And he made a very gutsy coaching change as far as, you know, making, you know, I think most of us thought an upgrade behind the bench, but doing it on a guy who hadn't been given enough time to really establish himself, sort of a cold-hearted move. But this team just isn't. They kind of are who we thought they were, right? Like, I don't know that too many of us looked at the blues and said, this is a, you know,

this is a really dangerous team. So, and, and, you know, the interesting dynamic there, right, is, is this is normally where we'd say, well, maybe the GM's on the hot seat now. I don't know how you can be on a hot seat because he's already lost his job a year and a half from now. Remember, they've got the succession plan in place where it's Alex Steen taking over in the fall next summer, 2006 offseason. So it's got to be nice to put in a plan that results in you getting promoted and making more money. Yeah.

Yeah, I pitched that here and it doesn't, they never get back to me on that. Yeah, you had to, like, that was the plan, was that I was going to take over. over the contrarian and you were going to move up. I'm going to move up and like I'm like, I want to do the rumblings and they're like, well, do you have any contacts? Do you talk to anyone? And I was like, no, I just read stuff online and go from there. And they said, yeah, that's not, that's good enough, isn't it? That's not being an insider. And I was like, well, it could be. Man, like last week, I, here's, here's what I'll say about the bliss and then we'll,

then we'll, we'll finish up. The way the Western conference is shaking out with the Canucks being a catastrophe and the flames being still legitimately in the mix in one way another, which is wild. A week ago, when St. Louis beat Calgary twice, I was like, hmm, maybe they can scrape enough production together and scrape enough points here together to be in the, to be in the discussion at least a little bit longer. And it hasn't happened, right? No.

Brennan Saad gets weighed and Scott Perinovich gets traded and they're talking about trying to create great minutes for other plays. and maybe the core is when we find yada yada yada man it's like what a difference what a difference a week a week makes crazy crazy what losing three games in a row when you're that's what happens when you know we see it in the east too where there's you know this this massive traffic jam around the bubble and yeah it's great to be a 500 520 team and and look at the standing school we're right in the mix but you can't even have a bad week nope and it's it this is this is the downside of these these stupid NHL standings that we have is, you know, oh, so many teams are in the mix. So many teams are in the mix. Yeah, that's great. The problem is you have one bad week and you fall out of the mix. You have one great week and you're like, we barely gained any ground at all. Like it's just this relentless churn forward. And it's, we saw it with the blues, right? You take your foot off the gas for a week. And suddenly it's everything, everyone else is pulled away from you. And in the meantime, welcome to the cellars table to the St. Louis Blues. Place your best offers for Justin Falk and Roddick Foxa and all these

wonderful pieces they have to offer to contending teams. Glad to glad to have you here. All right, buddy. What's new from you this week? I saw Taylor Hall post. Yeah, this is just somebody asked me that question on social media. They said, like,

is this, Taylor Hall's on his seventh team? And they said that's got to be a record for first overall picks, right? And so I looked into it and what I was, what I found was, you know, A, no, it's not. And B, I was stunned at how many first overall picks go on to real journeyman careers. And, and in fact, you know, if you don't count the guys who are active, obviously, you know, Connor Bedard has not played for more than one NHL team yet. But, you know, you look at the guys who've cut whose careers have come and gone.

I won't say what the number is, but I was stunned at the number of teams that a lot of these guys play for. And the answer is no, Taylor Hall is actually not all that unusual yet. Now, he might have a new team coming in the summer and then who knows. He could, he might be getting up there to the Brent Ashton numbers pretty soon. But for now, Alexander Dague clocking in just behind, just behind Taylor. He was the first person I thought of since I looked back on the Alexander Dade. era with the Pittsburgh Penguins in 2002 so fondly. Degg six, right?

Sends, Flyers, Lightning Rangers, pens wild. Is Deg the greatest former first overall pick in Penguins history? Absolutely. He's up there. Okay. I've got him. I've got him in number two. I've got him in number two.

That was the thing. And I'll, you know, I'll just say this other thing. You know, obviously, Merrill Lemieux, you think of him as, oh, yeah, that was a first overall pick, played his whole career in Pittsburgh. Crosby presumably will. If we take out the guys who are still active, there are. only four first overall picks who played their entire career with one team,

and Mario is the only one who's any good. The other three are Chris Phillips, Gord Kluzak, who most of you youngans probably don't even know. He was a good player who had his career shortened by injuries. One of the Gords.

And Rick DiPietro is one of those guys. Ricky! That is DePietro, Phillips, Kluzac, and Mary. I mean, you could still win with that throw those guys on the ice again mario's just all three forwards and you just figure it out but that's you know you we assume ovechkin and crosbie will join them well

ovechkin well crosbie i don't know i heard he's on the market so we're next yep we'll talk about that next week just kidding five games a night leaps wild devils uh flyers kings panthers Canucks, Preds. And of course, Pittsburgh Panthers. Pittsburgh Panthers. What am I talking about? Pittsburgh Penguins. I watched pit basketball last night.

Pittsburgh Penguins, Utah hockey team. That'll be a real, real barn burner in Salt Lake City. Enjoy the games. Me and Haley will be back tomorrow. Thanks for listening, as always. Wednesday show out.