The Athletic Hockey Show - Will Adam Johnson’s death cause hockey equipment to evolve?, “active investigation” into botched Evgenii Dadonov trade, Heritage Classic thoughts, and more

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

On today’s episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian and Julian are joined by The Athletic’s own Josh Yohe to discuss the tragic death of former Pittsburgh Penguin Adam Johnson, and whether equipment changes will come in light of this “freak accident”.Plus, Ian talks about the NHL’s “active investigation” into the botched Senators-Golden Knights Evgenii Dadonov trade, Julian gives his thoughts on the Heritage Classic, and the guys discuss Ian’s trip to Mullet Arena for the first Pride Night of the season since the new rules about Pride apparel was put into place.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowYou’ll be amazed at what you can do with Grammarly. Go to http://grammarly.com/podcast to download for FREE today. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Welcome to your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, it's Ian Mendez and Julian McKenzie with you after another very busy weekend in the world of hockey. Julian, I'm excited to pick your brain on The Heritage Classic. Outdoor game, Battle of Alberta, they take it outside. I'm going to have to find out exactly how many. layers you had of clothing for that. Let me think.

So I had like a really big bulky jacket, have like a suit underneath, turtleneck, thermal underwear for sure, because that's just a must. But it wasn't that bad. Like at Puck drop, it was like three degrees Celsius. I don't know that.

I think it was like, I think it's like 35, Fournight. 35 Fournite is around then. Yeah. But it wasn't that. Did you just pronounce it as foreign height? Fahrenheit.

Okay. I said, foreign height. I'm like, what is this? No, it's Fahrenheit. Maybe I said foreign height, it's definitely Fahrenheit. Or maybe I was trying to think of the temperatures. It doesn't matter. It wasn't that bad in terms of cold.

Like even in the second period, like I spent a couple minutes just outside of the press box. And I was just watching it, uh, just, you know, taking it in from the stadium and taking it in the atmosphere. And it was really nice. It was really cool. It was a, like, it's definitely one of those events where you have to be in the building for. and like that was my first time experiencing any of that.

But I really enjoyed it. We could talk about that a little bit more. But just as an initial impression, I liked it. Yeah, and we're going to talk about that. We had the two opposite elements of the, you were at the outdoor game in the cold in Alberta. I was in the desert on the weekend, Mullet Arena in Tempe, Arizona for the NHL's first pride game

under kind of the new rule. So we'll talk a little bit about that. Joe Thornton retired. I feel like we should hit on that. let's open up the show. And unfortunately, this was, this was the news that dominated the weekend. And it was awful.

And it involves a former NHL player, Adam Johnson, tragically killed in an on-ice accident overseas. Adam played with the Pittsburgh Penguins. So why don't we bring in Josh Yogi, who along with Rob Rossi, they did a fantastic job on the weekend, having to tell a difficult story

when a young man's life ends. Josh, thanks for joining the Monday Monday podcast here. Hi guys, good to see you. Both wish it was under better circumstances, of course, just terrible, terrible weekend for the hockey world.

No other way to put it. Yeah, and, you know, I think what's important here is to look at the life of Adam and the impact that he had, and I know that you and Rob and other people have reached out to other people. And let me just take a moment here to share with our listeners a little bit about Adam Johnson. Yeah, I mean, just, I'd be lying to you

if I said I got to know him super well because he wasn't in the NHL for that long, but he's just one of those kids that comes along. Everybody liked him. Just immediately likable, very kind young man. He was so happy to make it to the National Hockey League. I covered his very first game. I'll just never forget even after the game. He still just had the big smile on his face.

He couldn't get over the fact that he had made it. And I think he was one of those people who kind of willed his way to the NHL. He wasn't somebody that a scout looked at and said, oh, you know, can't miss prospect. He wasn't that big or that fast, but he just worked his way there and he finally made it to the NHL. And the only goal that he ever scored in his career was in Minnesota and his home state with his family and friends there. I'll never forget it. He just touched a lot of people in the short time he was here. And I know that just talking with some people over the weekend from Jim Rutherford, his GM at the time, to Matt Cullen, who lived very close to him in Minnesota, really had a close relationship with him.

everybody was shook up, as you can imagine. Is there a particular story from the ones you've heard over the weekend that stands out to you the most? Oh, boy. I mean, so for me, I already mentioned it, but the only NHL goal he ever scored coming in Minnesota, and he was on the ice with Sam Lafferty and Zach Ashton Reese. That was the penguin, and he played a lot of minor league games with those two. And I still remember seeing the smile on his face when he scored that goal. And Lafferty and Aston Reese have both brought it up.

in the last couple of days, like that they will never forget the joy on his face. And he had a lot of friends and family in the building that night. That's, you can't write it up. But you're going to score, the only goal you're ever going to score in the National Hockey League. And it happens to be a road game in the city where you're from or in the state where you're from with your family there. That, you know, that was just such of a touching moment. And he was one of those people. He just always had the smile on his face.

I mean, I know we say that about a lot of people, but he really was one of those people. he was so happy to be in the NHL. And, you know, even at almost 30 he was still playing hockey. Just one of those people. It was a hockey life or it was the game he loved. And I just left an impression on everybody. And I can tell you from Sidney Crosby on down, all the people who played with him in Pittsburgh, they were hurting over

the weekend. In fact, the Penguins, you know, they heard the news before their game Saturday against Ottawa and they didn't know he had passed away yet, but they knew it was, you know, grave condition and it affected a lot of people. as you would understand, but that they had a real soft spot for him. There's no doubt.

Yeah, and I think what this is done, unfortunately, it's opened up a broader conversation here. We've seen it. Mark Lazarus had a piece in the athletic. Chris Johnson has a piece that is coming out, and if it hasn't come out already, it'll be out by the time most people listen to this.

I think it just came out as you're talking about it, actually. Well, there you go. And the topic is, you know, are these types of on-ice accidents, while extremely rare, are they preventable? And I'm wondering, Josh, in kind of listening to some of the conversations that have been happening, do you think that this is going to push more professional hockey players,

NHL players, to wear some sort of protection in and around their neck? I will say this. I've covered this sport for a long time, as you two have also. I am astounded that this doesn't happen more often. I mean, how many times do you see a guy get checked and his feet go up in the air?

It's always the first thing I think about, where's the skate blade? I think the hockey world needs to have a discussion about it, you know, in terms of the neck protection. I have a nine-year-old who plays, he wears one. I don't know why we stop wearing them at some point when you think about it. I know guys don't like feeling restricted on the ice, but gosh, we went 100 years without people wearing visors.

Was that very smart? I don't think so. There's nothing wrong with having a conversation about it, and I know that it's rare, but it did happen, you know? And there happened. There was Clint Malarchuk incident. He's very lucky to still be with us. I think that was 1989.

It's one of my first hockey memories. I'll never forget that incident and how close he came to lose in his life. There have been other incidents like this. So I think the hockey world's not always very good at getting into incidents before they happen. But I'd like to see the hockey world be a little proactive about this one. I think it's worth having a conversation for everybody's safety. And hockey manufacturers as well who have made these neck guards as well. I mean, it seems as if people who have been asked about this,

whether people who have not played at a high level or otherwise, it seem to say that comfort is a big reason why, or discomfort in this case is a big reason why they don't continue wearing these. Why are we at a point where neck guards, for whatever reason, are not that comfortable? I mean, it's unfortunate that we have to have this discussion in light of what happened this weekend, but maybe this is the catalyst for more innovation when it comes to that technology.

No, very well said, Julian, I agree with you. I mean, that's one of the most important parts on the body. Obviously, we're talking about hockey with people with ice skates on. And, you know, if you think about it, it seems obvious, doesn't it? But, you know, you talk with players over the years. I still remember in the early 90s seeing interviews with players, I don't like, wear the visor. I can't breathe well enough. or it fogs up or I can't see.

And you're right. In 2023, I would hope we would have the technology where we could at least have the conversation. And even if it's not necessarily mandatory, at least give the players more flexibility if they want to try to wear it for their own safety. I think it's a really good idea. I do.

And Josh, you would remember this because it involved Eric Carlson and Matt Cook. But that Achilles, you know, Eric Carlson had his Achilles sliced by the skateboard of Matt Cook. And it opened, if you recall, at the time, a huge conversation about those sort of Kevlar cut-proof socks. And a lot of guys weren't wearing them at the time. And a lot of guys switched to them. I also think about Evander Kane.

Remember, Van der Kaine got his wrist pretty badly cut. Like, it's not just the neck. It is other areas of the body where you could have a serious injury. And you wonder, like, how is it, you know, not possible that there's that sort of Kevlar type of undercoding, so to speak, or under where that the, players could have, right? No, there should be. I mean, I remember a couple of years before the Carlson incident, P.K. Suban skate went through the back of Jordan Stalls leg,

and he missed about, I think, eight months or something, a very similar situation. And I remember very well the Carlson Cook, and for all of Matt Cook's indiscretions over the years, that was a fluky play. And, you know, it's just, it's one of those things that happens. A lot of guys don't like wearing them.

I've known enough hockey players over the years. They like to be comfortable. They don't like feeling responsible. And I get it. I'm not a hockey player myself. So I don't know what it's like to be on the ice and to feel a certain way to have to operate at top level. But I think anybody's going to want to be safe out there, right? And I'm sure this incident, and you hate when it comes to something like this,

but I'm sure it will open up some eyes and some guys are going to be thinking, man, you know, I got a family watching me out there every night. What can I do to make them feel a little more comfortable about my safety out there? Stuff like this does happen. We all know it. And you know what? Year by year, it's a cliche, but it's true. The game literally does get faster every year.

It does. And 10 years from now is going to be even faster than it is now. And the faster it gets, the more dangerous in some ways I think it becomes, too. So I think it's a great point that you both brought up about the technology, these companies that make, you know, from the stick, skates, you name it, all the manufacturers. I don't think anybody's blaming them or holding them accountable necessarily. but I think we need to sit down with them and say, hey, what's going on here? Why are things a little safer?

Here's another reason why I think we'll see some kind of change. Because we've seen, you mentioned Clitmore-Larchuk. The one incident that stands out to me is Richard Zednik getting a skate to the neck as well. And that was really gruesome to see, but we didn't see anything immediately come from after that. If I'm not mistaken, Jacob Lalko a couple weeks ago with the Boston Bruins, his eye was cut by a skate. but for whatever reason we have not seen whether at the professional, just pretty much anywhere at the professional level, up until this point we had not seen the league kind of step up and say,

okay, we are going to make these things mandatory. But CJ, or see Chris Johnson literally put out a tweet about half an hour ago about the English ice hockey association saying that they're going to make neck guards mandatory for all players as of December 31st. And the only reason why it's not happening sooner is because of supply issues. And up until this point, unless I'm wrong, I can't think of any other pro league that has stepped up after an incident like this and said, okay, we are going to make neck guards mandatory.

We know it's mandatory in the junior leagues, but I have not, and I could be proven wrong, please, but I have not seen a pro league step up and say, okay, we are going to make this a thing. And now that this league were, I mean, I presume it's the federation that Adam Johnson was playing under because he was playing in the UK, now that they've stepped up and they've been proactive about this, how long until, you know, more people start making the point that the NHL needs to do.

It's the highest league in the world for professional hockey league. Sorry, for professional hockey, they need to do something like this. I think at this point, conversations, we're having them now, we're having them on podcasts. We're going to have think people. We've already seen think pieces come out about this. It almost feels like it's going to be inevitable at this point. That's how I see it. I think it's probably a matter of time.

And, you know, this concerns the entire. hockey world, you know. I don't care what country had happened or who had happened to. The hockey community is a very tight-knit group, you know, and this just so happens to be somebody that did play in the National Hockey League, who we do know him. And so maybe that makes it hit home a little more, but even if it had been a guy that we'd never heard of, I think we'd probably still be having this conversation. I hope we would. So, no, and I don't know how quickly it could be instituted, but listen, it's a conversation that needs to be had. You know, nobody's going to want their children playing a sport someday if safety precautions

aren't being made. And I think hockey's been really guilty of that and really behind the times in a lot of ways for a long time. I mean, I'm, God, I'm old enough. I remember Craig McTavish playing without a helmet on. Like, I remember thinking about it wasn't that long ago. I mean, it really wasn't. It's hard to imagine. Eddie Johnston still sits in the press box every night at Penguins games. He's 87 years old. And I didn't even wear a helmet when he started as a goaltender. I mean, we're not that far removed from stuff like

that. We still have players who go through warm up without helmets. And I get that's not an actual game, but what's stopping and it's from happening where someone shoots a puck off someone's head in a warmup? I've watched it happen. Guys have got to hit a puck hits the crossbar, it

ricochets and it hits a guy in the hat. I can't remember who it was. I remember years ago in warm-ups, somebody, I think, collided and somebody fell and hurt their neck or something. I forget who it was. But no, there are always, it seems like four or five guys in every team that don't wear their helmet or in warm-ups. It drives me crazy. It really does, because you're right. We all see the game. Pucks hit crossbars. They ricochet everywhere. You don't know where they're going. I mean, you're taking a chance. It's just not a good look. And I get there's a measure of risk that has to be taken whenever you do anything in life. And in hockey as well, like you can protect yourself as much as you can, people will still get hurt. But you do bring up a good point.

Like we're in the 2020s now. We're not in the 1980s anymore where, you know, people could fight off the idea of wearing a visor or a helmet. Like I think if the precautions and the concepts are there for people to protect themselves, shouldn't these players be in that position to do that? Yeah. And I would honestly, I'd like for the players association maybe to take the lead in this because the National Hockey League itself has told us enough in the last few months with many decisions they have made. I don't even know what's going on with the league right now.

But clearly they're not on the same page as most people. And I would love for the Players Association to kind of sit up and say, hey, you know what? This league exists because of the players. And we're going to try to set an example for all the younger people playing out there and keeping our own players healthy and maybe have a conversation about this. I really think it would be appropriate at this point in time. Well, Josh, listen, before we let you go, we'll shift gears here a little bit,

ask you one penguins-related question, because as you open up your phones or computers and you look at standings, the Pittsburgh Penguins are in dead last in the Eastern Conference. Certainly not where they envisioned on being. And I'm wondering in the market that you're in, who's taking the most heat?

Is it Tristan Jari? Is it the newcomer Eric Carlson? Like what? Like, how's this kind of playing out? Why are the penguins in last place right now? Boy, I think for the first time, it's Mike Sullivan who's taking a lot of heat in the Pittsburgh market, primarily because the penguins just kind of looked the same way. They looked last year, which is to say they look a little stale.

Even though a lot of the names are different, the play looks the same. I can tell you, you know, Crosby and Malkin have still been pretty good. Tristan Jarre, he's got two shutouts. He's kind of been up and down. Eric Carlson, he's actually been really good defensively. No real mistakes there, which isn't what we're expecting with him. He hasn't really had the offensive eruption that we're waiting for just yet. But the biggest problem with the penguins is the same thing it's been for years.

They have exactly one goal from their bottom six in eight games. If Crosby and Malkin are putting up the offense, they're not scoring. And the Eastern Conference is just too good. You can't survive if you only have two lines. And that's the problem right now. I would like to ask about the power play because one thing I thought with Eric Carlson being there

Eddie of Crosby and Balkan and Latang this is this team's supposed to have a dynamite power play what's going on with it? It has been embarrassing to watch I think it's like two for 20 nows I don't have two power play goals and it's even worse when we're talking eye test it has been so bad

nobody they're all being too polite Carlson's deferring to Crosby and Crosby, hey, we got Eric Carlson, let's give him the puck. No one's taking charge of the power play. And it has, it's embarrassing when you've got all these Hall of Famers and you can't score a power play goal and can't even come close. It's a real concern in Pittsburgh, no doubt. And if I'm not mistaken, it's two power play goals both scored in the same game by

Crosby, right? Yep, yeah, both in Washington in the second game of the year. So. And honestly, guys, it looks awful in practice. Like, it does. The second power play unit looks so much better. It's hard to fathom. One real big problem, there's nobody in front of the net.

Jay Council is a great player. He's about 170 pounds. He's not a net front guy. They don't have anyone to stand there. They're actually going to try Riley Smith tonight against Anaheim, who's actually had a really nice start for the Penguins. They're going to try him in front of the net. They're getting a little desperate for solutions.

There's no trouble on the perimeter, but if you don't have people in front of the net, I don't care who you are. It's not going to work. Yeah. Three wins and eight games, not the ideal start. Like we said, wish it was under better circumstances that you were joining us,

but we appreciate you dropping by the pot, and we look forward to, I always love your 10 observations columns about the Penguins. You somehow find 10 nuggets to drop in there on a regular basis, so I look forward to that, and thanks for dropping by. Yeah, good to see both of you guys. Take care. There goes, Josh Yoey, joining us here as, yeah, the Penguins, it's a really interesting story that, you know, Ottawa, Buffalo, Pittsburgh,

I think Julian, three teams that had postseason aspirations coming into the air, off to flat starts. Yeah. All three of them. What's funny is that like the Ottawa senators it felt like over the last few days were kind of dominating headlines a little bit more because of the start and some of the other stories kind of floating around them. The Buffalo Sabres, I know they were trying to get, they were in a run and it seems like they're slowly starting to get out of it. They had a really big win over the Colorado avalanche. But it would be the Emmington Oilers. And I know we'll get to them too. But like

they were off to a really bad start as well. And now they get Connor McDavid back. They went on Heritage Classic. We're starting to see those teams start to get out of it. But when they were in it, just to me, it felt like the Pittsburgh Penguins were just kind of taking a seat back in terms of them being a big storyline with all that with their slow starts. I can't really explain why that is. But it felt like we were focusing on other teams. You know, and you bring up some of the stuff swirling around Ottawa.

Let me just, as we're recording this on a Monday afternoon, you know, last week in the middle of the shame. Pinto gambling story, which was dropped on Thursday, I believe. We also got information. And Chris Johnson and I dug on this Thursday, I think, and a little bit into Friday. I can't remember now my dates are off. But I sent Chris Johnson a note and said, hey, are you hearing anything that Dadov in Ottawa, that this might be back on the mix? He says, let me check.

I said, well, I'm hearing that there's going to be something coming from the league. And Chris got back and said, yeah, absolutely there's. The way we'd like to determine is there is, to our understanding, an active investigation. Now, Elliot Friedman on Hockenade and Canada did say that we should expect some sort of ruling, some sort of punishment coming down to Ottawa. And I think if you're an Ottawa fan, it's fair to ask what the what, right? Like, this is a trade that happened 18 months, like two years ago was Daddanov to Vegas. 18 months ago was the botched Daddanov to Anaheim.

what is going on here. And I think it's fair to ask what is going on. And the only thing I can come up with, Julian, is that Vegas never let this go. That's my, that's my kind of hypothesis here. Vegas has been relentless in trying to pursue some degree of punishment here. Because I think, for whatever reason, they felt like they were misled, if that makes sense.

Now, here's the question. people are like, what were you misled about if you could just go to cap friendly and find out if guy did or didn't have a trade clause, right? I can go to cap friendly, you can go to cap friendly. But what you can't go to cap friendly and see is whether or not that those trade clauses are only valid if they're submitted by a certain date and time. Usually like the 30th of June, I think you have to have them in or the first of July, whatever. So maybe there's some confusion there.

That's the only thing. And I think something happened in the trade call between Ottawa and Vegas when Ottawa sent Dadanod to Vegas that led Vegas to believe this guy doesn't have an active, no trade club. That's the best. And this is guesswork here. But aren't you kind of wondering what the hell? Like, why is this coming up now?

Absolutely. We had a conversation about this, I want to say yesterday, where you were basically filling me in on everything. I have to admit, like just with all the heritage classic stuff, my brain was not on the Ottawa senators. But in what we were talking about it, and you mentioned the fact that there's no real, I mean, as far as we know, I mean, I'm sure,

I have a hard to think teams don't have some kind of place where they can see that a player has, yeah, a place where they can see not only that they have a trade clause, are no trade clause, but also where, like, which teams are part of that clause. Like, it just blows my mind. Like, you mean to tell me, you can tell me if I'm wrong, you need to tell me if I'm a trade. See, you and I are making a trade. And a player involved has a no trade clause.

You have to take me up my word that that trade clause is in effect and these teams are on it. Like, I find that really bizarre just generally. And I'll say this about Vegas. Vegas already has this reputation, at least before the Stanley Cup, where they're doing everything they can to win. And they're getting players in,

getting players out, the way they're handling trades and all that. Like, that was a part of their reputation. And the Hvgeny Datenov move very much in line with how we thought about that franchise. And a lot of people were looking at them really weird. If you're the Vegas Golden Knights

and you care about your reputation around the league, and you realize it's all happening to you because some other team messed up, I would be very upset to, and I would want some kind of due process or justice in this situation. You gave us a player who we don't know, we thought there was an active no trade clause or there wasn't, and all of a sudden there is. And all of a sudden,

we can't offload them to Anahon. Like if I'm, if I'm Vegas Golden Knights Management, I'm livid at this. I have every reason to be upset at the Ottawa Centers. I'm not upset the fact that they're pursuing this. So the question is, though, remember, the league looked into it at the time the deal went down and said, we don't think Ottawa did anything wrong.

But like I said, my guess on this is Vegas was relentless. And there has to be new information that has come to light. Because if the NHLS didn't find anything the first time, what came out this time? And if it came out this time, does that mean that Ottawa was withholding information? then shouldn't that mean they should be in for a severe punishment? Because that's not right. Right. So I think the two things I want to get across and to wrap up this thought is, you know,

one, I think, you know, when the league suspended Shane Pinto, it was like a super vague press release, right? In fact, it left you with more questions than answers. If they come down with a penalty to the senators, I don't think we're going to have that problem. I'm led to believe, Julian, it's going to be clear, concise. Here's what they did wrong. Here's what they were in violation of.

Here's the punishment. I think it's going to be somewhat transparent. My question is, and I put this at the end of my column today, and it was kind of like, you know, it's going to be curious for my, to me, like, how does Michael Anler react? Because Mike Anler bought this team for $950 million. And he bought them, and you're going to tell him that right off. the hop, he's got to pay or the organization's got to pay either a fine or they're going to be

stripped of a draft pick for something that didn't happen under his watch. Like, if I'm Mike and Lauer, I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, what are you doing here? Like, I totally see it from his perspective that, hey, you want to punish somebody or punish the parties involve fine. But how are you, like, I'm brand new here. Like, how is this on me? So I'm not sure, but I'm not sure how differently you're supposed to go with that, considering that he owns the team. I mean, I can understand that he has nothing to do with it, but I don't know.

He kind of has to, I mean, it's weird to say that he kind of has to wear it, but he unfortunately has to bear some of that responsibility. The one person I'm thinking of is Pierre Dorian in all of this, already entering the season with his seat very much on fire. Does this, depending on what the punishment is, does this affect his job? Because already the team is not starting off well.

We know how people get when new people come into an organization. They like to see their people take over. Depending on if there's new information, again, if it was withheld from the initial investigation that the NHL was doing, I have a problem with that. Does that play a role in Pierre Dorian's job security? That is the biggest question that I have. And one person who could definitely have an answer for that is Michael Amlaw. Yeah.

Great, great point. By the way, Pierre Dorian was at Senators, he was there sitting in the stands, at practice on Monday, came by, said hello to us. So it didn't seem like anything weird was going on, but something is going on in the background. That's nice. Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. And we'll see, we'll see what happens here in the next couple of days, but I wanted to share that with the listeners here on the pot. Hey, I want to talk to you about the outdoor game. Edmonton, Calgary. And listen, Let's not focus on the game itself. I'm more interested in the spectacle and the teams rolling in different kind of outfits and just the scene. Take us through it.

Take us through the spectacle that was the 20-year anniversary of the Heritage Classic. Man, that was my very first time covering an outdoor game. I remember watching at least some of the initial one 20 years ago, Canadians Oilers. The Canadians won that game. I remember the photos of Jose Theodore wearing the tuk atop his goalie mask, which has become one of the most iconic photos in hockey history.

By the way, before the game even started, they had a ceremonial face-off. Yes, that was cool. And some of the members from the Oilers, yeah, I love that. You see Jose Theodore there. Stefan Kintal was there as well. Alex Hemsky for the Oilers was there. Jared Stoll, I believe, too.

I thought the face-off, like, the fact that they were there was cool, that was cool. But the face-off where everyone, There was like three representatives from each team, and they're each dropping a puck, and the captains for each team are on opposite ends, and they're only around like one, and you see them eventually pick up the puck's ass and they're dropped.

That was a little interesting, but still a pretty cool moment, especially if you watch the initial one. But being in the Commonwealth Stadium, that was also my first time there as well, and seeing the seats. They announced it as a sellout over 55,000 in attendance. Really cool.

just to take in that atmosphere. I watched a good chunk of the game from the press box, which, you know, it's a little muted. You hear some, some pumped in noise from whatever monitor you're watching, but there's nothing like going outside of the box and taking in the in-game atmosphere and hearing fans cheer and hearing the skates, the blades on the ice and just enjoy it. It wasn't that cold either. It was like three degrees at Puck Drop.

I had mentioned that off the top here. but it was just perfect weather, perfect conditions. The ice obviously is going to be, it's always a problem for these outdoor games, it seems like, but for the most part, it wasn't something we were focusing on for the entire game. Nickelback wasn't that bad. I have one gripe about their performance. That's the highest compliment you can give Nickelback in a public sphere, by the way. Nickelback wasn't that bad.

But how do you do this show in Alberta, which is leaning all, the way into the Battle of Albertanus. I believe they played wow, why am I blanking on the songs? They played rock star at the end. They played this is how you remind me. Yeah. They played Saturday nights all right. Why didn't you play Burnett to the Ground?

Like that's the perfect venue for you to play that song and 55,000 people are going to get lit. They're going to get AMP. Like that's something you put in the pregame intro. That's a good point. game and you don't play that song. I don't understand that. That I don't understand that. That doesn't make any sense to me. I get it. It's not necessarily their most iconic song, but considering the conditions of the event, that was the perfect time to play that song. That's the biggest

gripe I had, but I did not have a problem with Nickelback before we get that event. That was really fun. Totally random thought. You mentioned Alice Hemsky was there to ceremonial puck dropping. Maybe this is a fever dream. Did Alice Hemsky play for the Habs briefly? Yes, you did. He was very, very brief. For like 20 games? Like if that. I'd be stunned if it was worth of 20 games. Because you mentioned Alice Hensky, I'm like,

where the hell would Alex Hemsky be there for that? He was only with the habs for a few games, wasn't he? Oh, he was wearing an Oilers jersey. Okay. Because he spent all those years with the Oilers. Yeah, I know. I was like, wait, did Alish Hems? But to your point about the bunch of rock Canadians,

he said 20 games for him? That's my guess. Seven games. I forget what injury he had, but like he, it was not long. It was very, very short of a time of Alice Hemsky as a Montreal Canadian. But if you were playing Puckdoku and for whatever reason, you see Edmonton, Montreal line up, you can use Alish Hemsky as an answer. Yeah.

Don't use Devin Dubinick. Use, uh, use Alish Hemsky. Yes, because Devin Dubnick did not play for the Canadian. Exactly. He was there, but he never played. Right? He didn't play in a game. Yes.

Steve Mason, I think also is in that same boat, too. He was also traded to the Canadians, but never, I don't remember. and playing a game. This sounds like a down goes brown quiz. Which guy did this? Which team did this guy not play for? That would be down goes wrong. Okay.

So you did an outdoor game. Now I got a question for you. Yes. Would you rather that the team that you cover or the, if you're a fan, should you prefer having your team host, your local team host an outdoor game or the All Star game? What would be better?

That's a good question. I've never attended an All-Star game for what it's worth. But that's a good question. I've done both. I think I'd go All-Star game. But the only thing I would push for with an outdoor game, I want to see the cool venues. Like, okay, if you're able to put a rink, like in Ottawa,

if you could have played the game at Parliament Hill, that's great. If New York City, if you could do this at Central Park, count me in. But when you're constantly doing the stadiums, baseball, baseball. I kind of feel like been there, done that, right? I could understand that.

I mean, there's some logistics that get in the way and you have to account for some environmental concerns as well. Like one, one thing I've always wondered is why not have an outdoor game at Lake Louise, but you have to consider the fact that the area is a, it's a heritage site, right? And I'm sure that, I'm sure building on top of that is going to invite an entire set of issues, right? So as much as we would love to have a situation where you want to build on some iconic places, there's a lot of red tape you're going to have to go through. Like in Quebec, I can't really think of an area that would really, that would really work. Someone suggested yesterday,

well, why don't they have it at Percival Moulson Stadium? And I looked this up and I want to say around the time when the Sends and the Canadians played, I think that idea was floated. But Bill Daly ultimately said that Percival Moulson Stadium, which for those who don't know, of the Montreal Alouettes, they play CFL games there and the University of the Guild, that's where they have all of their football, rugby, a couple of their sports play there too. That is maybe a little over 20,000. It's good. Like, their attendance is comparable to what the Bell Center

can hold in Montreal. Yeah. So what's the point? Exactly. And you want something 30, 40, 50,000 deep in order to accommodate as many fans as possible. So it's not going to make sense to have it at a place like Wilson Stadium. It seems like to me, unless I'm missing the spot, in Montreal, the reason why we haven't seen in Quebec is because there isn't a location that's large enough to accommodate, to accommodate what the NHI would want for an outdoor game. And I think if I was able to do that and cover a game there,

I would love to see a situation where you're able to do that. Like, I don't know if there's an area in Quebec City, like around Old Quebec, where you can make it work. And that would be absolutely beautiful to see something like that. Players get taken to the, taken to and from the dressing room on like a horse-drawn carriage in old Quebec City. Come on. Come on. That'd be pretty fun.

Who says no. Imagine you get ejected. Imagine you get a game misconduct. You've got to get on a horse and a buggy. Well, there goes Tom Wilson. Remember Corey Perry got kicked out of an outdoor game within like two minutes of it. He did. He did.

It's amazing. Some of you go through that, you get carried out. That'd be pretty well. That would be pretty well. That was up the cotton bowl, right? Yeah. When Perry got kicked out of the cotton bowl. Yeah, because Dallas was in that game.

I still don't know if I would pick an All-Star game. over an outdoor game and it maybe has to do with the fact I have yet to attend an All-Star game in person. I have my thoughts on the way that the All-Star Games presented, particularly the last one that we had. But I'll say this, being there for an outdoor game, I totally understand when people say that these events are pretty much designed for the people there and less for TV. Because watching it on TV, it looks cool, but you're only getting a certain percentage of the actual atmosphere. sphere being there and I didn't even mention the fact that the way the players from both teams entered the games will enter the venues and wearing the costumes. I mean, the flames had the hard hat and overalls get up, which was apparently Nazan Codry's idea. And then you had the little bit more, I mean, they have the jackets and the hard hats for the Emmetson Oilers when Connor McDavid said it was a good tribute to all the hardworking Alpertons.

That was fun too. It's funny. I was like doing a radio interview as I noticed the. Oilers guys were coming in it. I was thinking, okay, that's a lot of people. It's a lot of arena workers. There's no way what are all these maintenance guys doing for something's going on

here. It was fun. And I like that team's like to go up. I don't know if it'll be up in our next style rankings. I would like to see that perhaps, but that's a conversation for Scott Powers. Hey, I want to wrap up the Monday pod with

like I said, you were in Alberta on the weekend covering the Heritage Classic. I was at Mollin Arena. I'm still in Alberta. Yeah, that's good point. You're still in Alberta. But you were in Edmonton. You were, not in your home city covering the outdoor game. I was in the exact opposite. It was about 90 degrees Fahrenheit, not four in height, Fahrenheit, 93, whatever that is, Celsius in Tempe at Mullet Arena. And before I just, poor me, before I chat a little bit about why I was there, I want to tell you, that's a fantastic.

And I know that there's a lot of low-hanging fruit. That's one of the most fun atmospheres I've ever been at for an NHL game. Like, it was popping. It was unique. And I got to give a huge shout out to the entire Coyote's staff, the PR department there, Jeffrey Sanders and Sanders and Javier Gutierrez, who's their president's CEO. They could not have been more welcoming to me coming in to cover their team. So I want to say a huge thanks to them.

Huge thanks to Travis Dermit, who did a media availability. That had a great conversation with Travis, too, just kind of off the record. Anyway, that was the whole reason why I went. First NHL pride-themed night in the new era, so to speak. And I'll tell you, Julian, like what I did for this story, I said, I'm going to get there early, and I'm going to go down by the glass. I'm going to watch the warm-ups with members. from the LGBTQ plus community.

And I thought that's a good way to see how they're feeling about this night and everything. And look, was there some disappointment that players didn't use Priteite? For sure. But the one thing that everybody wanted to hammer home to me was they felt like this was a really successful night. And sometimes that we do focus too much on the players

and that they saw allyship everywhere inside that arena. That, you know, they saw, a gay men's choir sing the anthem. They saw the mascot wearing a rainbow headband all game. They had a couple of players there. Sean Verzi was one of them, Liam O'Brien, Liam O'Brien, wearing pride jerseys.

I saw that. You know? So I think at the end of the day, there's a bit of a recalibration here. But I think it's time to kind of look at some of the initiatives that teams are doing. And I got to give the coyotes credit. You know, they have a great program in Arizona, Julian, called the Growlers, which is specifically designed so that members of the LGBTQ plus community can learn to play

hockey in a safe environment. That's a pretty cool thing that an NHL team is doing. So hats off to the coyotes. I know there was a lot of questions. I thought it went off as well as it could have. And it was interesting, though. We spent weeks, a couple of weeks talking. talking about the debate about Pride tape and not a single player used it on their stick even for the warm up.

Interesting. But what I- We had a whole discussion about this last week, wondering if players would do it in light of the initial ban being rescinded. And I made the point that because it has completely changed, it's not really that much of a statement to have it. I mean, maybe now that we just saw a Pride game go off where there was no tape used. but I mean now the impact of wearing pride tape I mean you know what I'll say it like this

if we see a player use the tape now we'll actually just accept it for what it was supposed to be for in the first place a sign that if you are from that community you are welcome and you are acknowledged and that was the whole point of all of this anyway it's just kind of

I understand that there is some recalibration and, you know, if teams are going to go up, if this is the new era and we're going to see guys just wear the regular uniforms and we'll see some moments of allyship and, and people being welcoming throughout the arena, whatever, whichever arena it is, that's going to be great. That's fine. It just, it does still kind of boggle my mind a little bit that it took us all this

consternation and frustration and looping around to get to this point. But at the same time, I am still glad that we are at this point. And I hope that for other specialty nights as well, we are able to see some of that same energy where people from marginalized communities, especially for those specialty nights, they can go to those arenas. They can partake in hockey culture and feel a sense of belonging and welcome. Because at the end of the day, that's ultimately what the sport is supposed to be for. We're supposed to be able to share in this game together, no matter where you're from, no matter what you look like. We can acknowledge each other's differences, and there's nothing wrong with doing that. But those differences should be celebrated.

And the fact that hockey has those differences should be celebrated in its game and acknowledged. And the fact that we're at that point, that makes me happy. But I know that we shouldn't forget about the fact that it took everything that's happened over the last year or so to get us. there and people have been frustrated and people have been hurt over this and it should be acknowledged too. But I'm very curious to see how other teams go off on this for the next couple of months. And if this ends up being the norm, that's great. And we can start focusing on more of those stories like a Scott Lawton or James Van Riemstike

hanging out with members of the LGBTQ community at games or if a player feels comfortable to come out, right? where maybe that's a long ways away, but stuff like this builds towards that, right? Like I want to see more positivity. I can't help but think of the negativity that got us there, but I am happy that we are at this point. Yeah, and you know,

one thing, you know, Travis Dermott, who ended up missing that game, he was ill, Julian, missed the game, ironically. But, you know, one thing Travis said to us on Thursday was, you know,

I think the question was phrased to him, like, how many of your teammates do you experience? do you expect will use the tape. And I really liked his answer. You know his answer was? Well, that's the beauty of the new rule. Now it's everyone's choice.

And if you can choose to be an ally, and he said, if you don't wear it, I'm not going to single you out, and I'm not going to judge you. And I thought that's the way to do this. We need to look for the real allies in this sport. Travis is one of them. Scott Lawton is one of them.

JVR is one of them. There's a handful of guys who are legit allies. And it's time to focus on the work that they're doing rather than the work of, you know, a few people who just philosophically or culturally or religiously, this doesn't align with them. Okay. But what are we doing to create, as you said, so eloquently, to create a safer space to allow a player to feel comfortable to come out in the NHL. That's what it's about. And I get that like for stuff like that, you know, it's their business. And it's really their choice at the end of the day.

And I'm not saying that to say like, okay, I want these stories to come out so we could all cover them. At the end of the day, like, it's on the player to do that. I just want that clarified. Yeah, I also think just the idea, it's kind of funny that we're at a point where we're okay with the idea that players have the choice, which I don't necessarily think that was an issue or a problem. It's just that the league had it set in this one way. And for years, people didn't have a problem with it. and then all of a sudden a few people did

and now we're at this point, which we've seen other leagues do. I'm more fascinated by the change in it than than anything else. I just want that clear. But it is fascinating to see how, as you mentioned, we're recalibrating how we go about

celebrating these specialty nights, in particular Pride nights. Yeah, well, I'll tell you what. We're going to have to leave it there because I got to run to go do a feature now, Julie. Yeah, I got I got to record this other podcast. I don't know if you ever heard of Chris Johnson. just Chris Johnson guy. Yeah, I don't know.

We keep mentioning here and there. I've never met this dude person at all. Yeah. He could be tall, it could be short. I have no idea. He could be a short king. But you and I are back at it tomorrow on the Tuesday edition of the show. And the little segment we call Mike Check with Mike Russo.

Our man, Mike Russo is going to have an extended conversation with the president of the Philadelphia Flyers. They're also a great start. Heath Jones, you drop by the pod. In a conversation with Mike Russo Tuesday. So we look forward to that. That should be a lot of fun. We want to thank you for listening to the Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. Follow us on your favorite podcast platform.

Leave us a rating and review. We appreciate that. You can follow us. Watch us live on YouTube. At YouTube.com slash at the Athletic Hockey Show. Julie and I were back with you on Tuesday. Peace.