The Athletic Hockey Show - Will Connor Bedard have a signature moment at the Winter Classic?

Episode Date: December 30, 2024

Mark Lazerus, Scott Powers and Jeremy Rutherford preview the 2025 Winter Classic between the St. Louis Blues and Chicago Blackhawks from historic Wrigley Field on the north side of Chicago. The guys discuss the mid-season coaching change for the Blues and Blackhawks, with Jim Montgomery and Anders Sorensen running the teams for the rebuild on the fly in St. Louis and the longterm rebuild in Chicago. Plus, the guys wonder if Connor Bedard has a signature moment in him, for the Winter Classic on New Year's Eve.Host: Mark LazerusWith: Scott Powers and Jeremy RutherfordExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Hello and welcome to a special edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. I am Mark Lazarus. Max Boltman is on assignment. So I am joined today by two of my very favorite people in hockey, the Athletics esteemed St. Louis Blues writer, Jeremy Rutherford, and the athletics original hockey writer, the man who started at all Scott Powers.

We're going to talk a little later in the show about Sidney Crosby, passing Mario Lemieux, Alex Ovechkin, chasing down Wayne Gretzky, Patrick Kane, reaching a new milestone. I don't even know what year this is. we're talking about those three guys. But first we're here to talk about the 2025 Winter Classic, which oddly enough will be played in 2024. JR right now is in the car on one of the most boring drives in America up I-55.

How you doing, JR? Yeah, and I'm going in a bad direction, too, leaving St. Louis, going to Chicago. I wish I was going the other way. What is it about St. Louis people that they love St. Louis so much? You know what? I don't talk like that to anybody else. I only brought it up because it's, you. Like, I love the thing the back and forth we have going with the pizza. You don't like

the St. Louis pizza, so I like to tell you how good it is. And I figured I'd get a jab in about the fact that I'm driving to Chicago and not too excited about that. Scott, have you ever had Emo's pizza in St. Louis? No, there used to be a place called pie. And last time I went to, they closed all the pizza places down. So I don't usually have St. Louis pizza anymore. But there was a one good place that like it. It should be a federal law and all St. Louis pizza places. It should be closed down in perpetuity. It's basically like a piece of matza with some ketchup on it and then this weird plastic cheese. Is it a problem? Is that what it's called? Z.J.R. Yeah, provel.

Provel, okay. Yeah, and there is no other pizza in St. Louis besides Emo, so you don't have to, you know what? And I love, that's one thing I will say about Chicago. Every time we come up, we're trying to find a Luz or a Diorado's. What's the preference there in Chicago? Is there one above the other one. I'm a lose guy. I like the butter. Yeah, I'm not much of a Gio Donald's guy. Yeah, yeah. It's a worst decision that Blackhucks made or whoever

the United Center, they'll do you're in there and now it's just, yeah, it's kind of disgusting. Yeah, it's not a sponsor. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm here discussing pizza is a sign of just how excited we are for this year's Winter Classic, which for some reason pits the Chicago

Blackhawks against the St. Louis Blues. Two teams that are out of the playoffs and probably won't make the playoffs. And, you know, everyone gets their jokes and about the Blackhawks. This is their seventh outdoor game. But the first, I believe, since the, since the Notre Dame game,

it was that 2019? Is that the last time we had one of these, Scott? Yeah, there was the game. They all kind of blur together. I can't remember. Yeah, that's, that sounds about right. It's so odd. I mean, the Blackhawks are in last place.

It's, you know, like they're in position. They get the number one pick. They're in this rebuild. Certainly not where they were before. This was granted, obviously, because of Conrad and the hype that he, he built in his first year, but it had such a strange game. And the fact of it, but Darry's playing better, and he's showing signs to get

remember, but it's not like he's scoring 30 goals or, and the whole teams, they have a new coach. Both teams have a new coach. And it's not like the blues are lying the world on fire either. So this is just such a strange, strange matchup. And I don't, and the fact that, you know, I guess the underlying thing is a lot of Blackhawks fans are having watched the Blackhawks a ton this year because of their new TV deal. So I think, you know, the fact the games on national TV maybe brings out some of those fans,

but this doesn't feel like the draw it was once for fans that be watching the Blackhawks. It's funny when this game was announced and everyone rolls their eyes about, oh, God, the Blackhawks are going to be in the Winter Classic again. Even Blackhawks fans are like, oh, God, no, because they're one in five in these things. They won one time. The one game they won was the stadium series of Soldier Field in 2014 when it was zero degrees out and snowing. Jonathan Taves had that amazing goal where he cut through the snow in like four Pittsburgh penguins and scored. My favorite memory of that game is I actually fell asleep during it.

I was still jet lagged from Sochi. It was like three days after I got back from the Sochi Olympics. And I fell asleep and I slammed my head on the desk at the press box and it woke myself back up. You fell asleep. Yeah, more outdoor games, baby. I'm excited. You fell asleep because you're reading your story, Las. Come on.

So it was a. Oh, oh. J.R's coming and hot. Hey, I got to say, too, I'm glad that the Blues finally got in one of these several years ago against the Hawks at Bush Stadium because for a number of years there, like you just said last, I had to put up with Blues fans saying, come on, the Hawk, they're in their fourth one and St. Louis doesn't get one of these. So finally, here in the last eight years, the Blues have been in three of them, including that one with the Hawks at Bush Stadium. Hey, I want to play a little devil's advocate, though, with you guys, though. You know, people are talking about there's 13 games on New Year's Eve and why are they playing this game on New Year's Eve? But, you know, I think that if this were Florida and whomever from the West, Vegas, Edmonton, Dallas, take your pick.

If you guys were off work on New Year's Eve or New Year's Day, does it matter the competition, the game, the matchup, whether you watch or not? I don't know that it does. I think the people who are going to tune in, tune in. Yeah, I mean, they're playing on New Year's Eve because there's three college football playoff games on New Year's Day. Right. I know that they would just get destroyed by that. I used to, for years, I would rail that the, the NHL should move this game to Christmas Day, where their only competition would be the NBA.

They'd have to negotiate it into the new CBA. But the problem is the NFL is now on Christmas Day. So, like, they'd get killed. There's no good, there's no good place to have this where they're going to have the kind of sports stage to themselves. I think there is, one of the college football playoff games is going to be on during the same time that this game is on. And it's mostly this 13 NHL games, but only one of them is going to overlap. And it's just like the third period of, I think it's Montreal, Vegas. So it's still going to have kind of the floor to itself.

But it's a strange time, 4 p.m. Central time on New Year's Eve. You know, people are, you know, not old people like us, but people are going out, getting ready to have like a party or do whatever it is they do on New Year's Eve. So I don't know what the audience is going to be. But to me, I mean, the audience almost doesn't matter. I wrote about this last week. The Winter Classic is for people at the Winter Classic. It makes a lot of money for the league on the gate.

And it's really fun to go to. It's like the All-Star game. People always complain about the All-Star Weekend and how awful it is. Well, All-Star Weekend is really, really fun when you're at All-Star Weekend. And that's what these Winter Classics are for. They, you know, they're about the experience. It's about a live thing. And when you're like, I've been making fun of this for a year now during the ramp up.

But when I get to Wrigley Field later today, I'm going to be like, ah, this is pretty cool. This is fun. That's how it always works with these. These are for the local audiences, the local sponsors. They make a lot of money and people have a lot of fun at them. Yeah, but it's always felt like it's, a little bit more too. Like I'd tune in like even as a you know, I guess even a even less of a hockey fan than I was, you know, when I started coming the Blackhawks. It's something you'd watch.

I remember, you know, I remember the first one, you know, in 2009 at Wrigley and just wanting to see Wrigley. And I think there's a, there's a lot of people who tune in these things. I think the matchups just strange because it's usually there's, there's drawing aspects to a game. And it felt, it just felt so rushed with the Bedard factor that the Blackhawks are in this rebuild. And we knew they were going to be bad. I think they wanted to capitalize on it. So I think, you know, often it's Ovechkin or it's Crosby or like there's, or even, you know, there's some really, it just, it feels like it's a rivalry game in the past. And it, I don't know. For me, like, I know it's going to be huge.

And when we get down really, it's going to be really interesting and it's going to be packed and all those things. But it does usually somehow to have more of a national draw than than this in the past. I think they're usually successful teams. This is an absurd thing to be saying to you. of all people, but I think you're underselling the Connor Biddard factor. He is, whether he's like playing at a 50 goal clip or not,

he is one of the biggest names in the league. He is one of the biggest draws in the league. He's one of the few names that non-hockey fans know. They've heard of him. And the hype around him is so, especially with younger fans, fans like 20 and under, like this, the league

put Conor-Badard in this game because they know that he has a connection to that younger audience that Sidney Crosby does not, that Alex Ovechkin does not, that even Connor McDavid does not. When you go to a Blackhawks practice and you see these kids just falling all over themselves just to get a glimpse of him, I think Connor Bardard's a bigger, like, we're kind of numb to it being around it all the time, but there's a reason he's in this game.

Connor Bedard is one of the biggest names in the sport right now. I think compared to a year ago where the ratings were so high around everything he did that there was, there was this factor of a lot, so many people wanted to see what he was going to do. And he, he's obviously special to a degree, probably not to the extent that everyone wants him to be just yet. So I think almost last show had made some more sense than this because I think it was such a, everyone was tuning in last year and the numbers have dropped this year

that the ratings aren't the same. So I'm sure that he draws a crowd. It felt yeah, I don't know to me. It just felt like they wanted to capitalize and that's fine and hoping that he'd be this next star and we'll see in time whether he's that next super superstar. But yeah, I don't know. I guess this felt

like this could have waited a couple years and this would have been and I'm sure they'll continue. Oh, they'll get another one. Don't worry. It's not like this the last one. Yeah, no, I can hear both sides, guys, but I'll tell you this. You're right, and I got a story to tell you from this morning. I dropped my son off at a friend's house and said, hey, I'm going to get on the road to Chicago and head to the Winter Classic. I said, hey, buddy, is there anything you want me to pick up, like a sweatshirt, a hoodie,

a hat, anything from the Winter Classic, and I'll grab it. And you know what his response was? He said, Dad, can you get a Bedsie autograph? And I said, get out of here. First of all, you know my job well enough. he and has an autographs. But I mean, this kid's 11 years old and he's a dire blues fan, all kinds of blues jerseys and all that stuff. And what does he want? He wants to counter Badard autograph. You know, and I'll say this. It's good. This is good timing in one respect.

And, you know, the Blackhawks are on a four game losing streak and they've given up 21 goals in those four games. Things are bad. But Badard has been really heating up lately. He had that 12-game goal drought. And since then, so basically since just around Thanksgiving, he's got seven goals and 10 assists in 15 plus games. He's playing really well. He's been effective. There's this endless narrative about Matt Bay Mitchkoff and Macklin Celebrini being better than him right now. The goalposts keep getting moved for this kid. He's having a great season despite that drought. He's playing good hockey. He's basically an even player at even strength, which is a huge step up from last year. He's having a good year. And I frankly, you know, I don't care who wins or loses.

I kind of hope he has like a highlight, like a big fancy goal. or a great pass that sets up a goal. I feel like that would be good for the quote-unquote narrative, which has been really harsh on him, a lot harsher than it probably should be, given he's still the second youngest player in the league. And I think it would be good for him, certainly good for the league and good for the Blackhawks

if he has a signature moment of some sort at this game. Yeah, it's funny talking to Pat Foley, who's doing the game for the national radio, and I asked him if you're excited to see Connor Bardard and Pat Foley, he's a longtime Blackhawks broadcaster. And he said, Not really. Like, I've covered all these great players,

but I hope he does something great. And I think that's what I mean, that's why you tune in is to see if, I mean, even I guess, you know, for both of us covering him all season, you see moves and plays that he makes that he hasn't really finished yet.

And in time, probably a lot of those plays start happening. So the fact that he, you know, I think he's got six goals in December, which is the most he's tied for the most he's scored in a month in his career. So things are looking up. So, yeah,

he's certainly playing well. It's just, J.R., what about the blues? I know that BADARD sort of dominates this conversation, but since the coaching change and everything that's happened, are you seeing progress in the change they probably hope? Yeah, and that's the thing I was going to bring up, guys, is, you know, a couple days after the Winter Classic, if people are talking about a great game, a pond hockey game, 6'5 score back and forth,

or they're talking about that Bidard's signature moment. He already had the Michigan against the Luz. Maybe he'll go for the second Michigan against the Blues, right? But I think if the game lives up to it or there's a badard moment, people are talking about it, I think the NHL will have succeeded. But if this is a 2-1 or it's a route, it's a 6-1 and just an ugly game between two bad teams, then obviously that's the worst-case scenario. But as far as the Blues, they obviously like the Blackhawks made the coaching change.

The Blues made their coaching change first. And they brought in the guy that they wanted, I believe, all along Jim Montgomery, but he was under contract with Boston. As soon as he became available, Doug Armstrong jumped at that opportunity, and it was a raw deal, you know, many felt for Drew Bannister, just 24 games into his time as the full-time coach

with the team. And so they get Jim Montgomery in, and they're eight, five, and three since he took over. But they started off real hot. You expect the coaching bump early on. Plus, a lot of these guys were familiar with him. He was an assistant coach here in St. Louis for two years before he went to Boston.

Austin. They started off 4-0-1 behind Jim Montgomery since then, 4, 5, and 2. So they've cooled off a little bit. How do you guys like me reading these stats on the car drive to Chicago here? 4-5 and 2. And hey, they got something in common. They both recently lost the Buffalo here lately. Blues lost yesterday, 4-2. A badge of dishonor, if ever there was one. I want to get a little bit more into the Blues right here, but we've got to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll dive into what's going on with the St. Louis Blues. All right, we're back. We were talking a little bit about the St. Louis Blues,

who are exceptionally mediocre this year at 17, 17, and 4, right there in that mushy middle. There are only a few points out of the playoffs, but they played more games than everybody else. Does this feel like a playoff team to you or even a team that could really stay on the periphery, JR? No, it doesn't. It's a team that hasn't been inconsistent.

And, you know, I think that while there are some players on this team who you could put on a contender and they do really well, I think by and large, this is still a team that knows it's in a retool. The thing here in St. Louis is Doug Armstrong, the general manager, wants to have a competitive team that could be in the playoff conversation. And so when you look at the standings, yeah, they're just a few points out of that wildcard spot. But when you talk about losing the games to Buffalo like they did yesterday, I don't think you can look at this club and say that it's where Doug Armstrong wants it to be.

But give him credit, he continues to make moves trying to, improve the team and get him into that conversation. You guys know all about Philip Roveberg and Dylan Holloway coming over from Edmonton, and then he just made the trade for Cam Fowler, which, you know, people might have their thoughts on Cam Fowler, but he's come in and been real steady for them. So, you know, it's a decent team. It's a team that I think, you know, at the trade deadline still could be a few points out of a wild card and kind of teasing a little bit, but this definitely is not a team that's any better than that.

Well, it's interesting. You know, Max and I all season have been having this discussion because he covers the Red Wings and I cover the Blackhawks about tanking and whether it works. And these are two teams that are doing it completely differently. Obviously, the Blackhawks just dropped the nuclear bomb on their roster and started from scratch. They went and they tanked. They got Connor Bedard.

They've just been acquired. They've had 10 first round picks in the last few years. They're just acquiring pick after pick after pick and playing this incredibly long game. Kyle Davidson is just, he's got a 7, 8, 9, 10 year plan here, kind of like the Izer plan, which is going great, by the way. And St. Louis is trying to do this on the fly. They're trying to do kind of what Boston did where they went from one generation to the next but stayed competitive, the retool, you know, the offer sheets to Holloway and Broberg, acquiring guys via trade. What's the philosophy?

Is Doug Armstrong, does he not a believer in tanks or does he not allowed to tank? You know, I remember when the Blackhawks tank, there was, you know, rumblings from some other GM saying like, well, we can't afford to do that. We're not in a market that could survive this. What's the philosophy behind the blues trying to stay competitive while also a try. trying to build a team in the future. Yes, I think the Blues, Mark and Scott have been very clear in that they don't want a rebuild. I talked to the Blues chairperson Tom Stillman a couple months ago, and he said, this is a fan base that expects to be in the playoffs. He said, when you do rebuild, you don't know how long it's going to take. People say five to six years, but it's taken some

teams around the league even longer. And so they want to build a competitive team. And I think if you look at this franchise, they were in the playoffs for 25 straight consecutive years, you know, the naysayers could say, yeah, but you didn't win any cups during that span. They finally did win the cup in 2019, but this is a fan base that expects to be in the playoffs. And I think they have no problem being in the mushy middle. They got a draft pick number 16 last year, Adam Urisack, who they like, and they feel that he can be a good play for them in the future.

So they don't feel like they're necessarily missing out on the top 10 picks as long as they're competitive and have a chance to be in the playoffs. How are the fans, do the fans on board with this? do you get a lot of the we should tear it down kind of talk? Interestingly, it's a great question. Most of them are. I think if you had a fan poll in St. Louis, yes, there definitely is a distinct voice that talks about tearing it down and getting a Macklin-Cellabrina, a counter-badard.

But for the most part, like you look at yesterday, it's a Sunday afternoon game, 2 p.m. against the Buffalo Sabres and the place is absolutely packed. And, you know, when I did ask Tom Stillman about, hey, 60, 70 percent say that if you did do a build. This is in one of our polls that they could go along with it. And he said, yeah, but you're still losing 40% of that gate revenue. So, you know, I think that most fans in St. Louis, ones I speak to anyway, are along the ride for the ride with what the Blues are doing. Do you see a path forward for this team? Do you, do you, I mean, this right now, they're, they're pretty terrible. They're on the bottom five in power play and penalty kill. They're looking

to maybe trade people like Brandon Saad. Like, like, do you see a path forward for this team? Can you see a light at the end of the tunnel? I don't see a path forward this season and maybe not for for next year as well. I think when you look at this lineup, it's a hodgepodge, a strange mix of some players like a Brandon Sod who I'm sure, you know, would like to leave St. Louis and the Blues would probably like to trade them. You have some other players who are highly paid long-term contracts who aren't producing. And I think when you look at it that way, you say, okay, well, what are the blues doing? But I think when you look at the situation, like they do have a Dallabor-Divorski

who's playing well in the American Hockey League, number 10 overall pick a couple years ago, he can come in and be a number two center behind Robert Thomas. You've got a Jimmy Snuggieroot who would be here, but he opted to stay in Minnesota another year at the University of Minnesota. He can be, you come in and be a guy who score some goals for you. they do have some players on the horizon, but they're going to have to hit on them. And also, even if they hit on them, you know, how long are we talking three to four years? So, you know, I just think after 10 plus years of success under Doug Armstrong,

one of the best points percentages in the league behind the Pittsburgh Penguins, they've had a ton of success. And right now they're going through what a lot of clubs around the league have gone through, and it's just going to take some time to get back to where they want to after some mistakes with some of these long-term contracts. And Scott, on the flip side, obviously, is the Blackhawks who are just, you know, they're in that dead cat bounce right now where they're kind of like, all right, when is Rock Bottom? When are we going to find Rock Bottom? And when does the, when do you make the light at the end of the tunnel there?

Obviously, you and I talk about this all the time in our stories and on our podcast. But for the general audience out there, what do you, when you look at this Blackhawks pipeline, which is one of the best in the, in the NHL, according to all of our experts, do you see this team becoming some. something special down the road or is it still just too hard to tell? Yeah, I don't, I think we have no idea still, right? Like they, they have a ton of prospects. They have a lot of first round picks, a lot of second round picks. They, they've made a lot over the last three years. Like that was the priority when Kyle Davidson came in.

They, obviously, kind of Bernardard was, was the key to all this. But a ton of other draft picks, you know, Arden Levchenoff, number three, you know, number two pick last year in, in H. You know, they have, yeah, picks in Russia and in college and CHL and all around. and all top picks and, you know, Oliver Moore, guy, you know, playing in World Juniors now, and I'm in San Brunzel, who's one of the top defensemen in college hockey, and he had Roman Kansarov, who's lining up the KHL at 20. So I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of reasons for hope, but we don't know. Like, I mean, Kevin Kurchinski was just reassigned to Rockford

yesterday, who was the, you know, the seventh overall pick a few years ago, and, and he's had, you know, he looks better, but he's not what we expected probably still when the Blackhawks drafted him, and Bredd's had his ups and downs, and, you know, you got Frank Nazar, who's a 13th overall pick now in the NHL. So, yeah, I don't know. It's so hard to say whether these things are going to click. And at some point, you imagine Blackhawks are going to have to go out and get someone outside of their own prospect pool.

And they've made minor splashes in Bertuzi and Terra Vining, but nothing, you know, nothing's significant beyond that. So, yeah, it's so hard to tell. And the beauty of this for the Blackhawks, at least for the front office, maybe not for the fans, is they're going to get a huge leash on this. Like, Stan Bowman messed it up so badly that, you know, ownership's decided to give the hawks and Davidson this,

this huge, you know, this huge roadway and, and they're going to take it. They're going to see how much they, you know, how long it's going to take and they're, they're being patient.

So it's, it's been bad for, it's been for a while now and there's really not, you know, not that much light. I mean, this year was supposed to be better and it hasn't. And certainly firing Luke Richardson was,

you know, them making a decision about the, at least the near future and they'll have to make a decision on the coach after this year. but it's, yeah, I don't know. You're probably in the both same boat where, yeah, I mean, there's reasons for optimism, but nothing that really is definitive at this point. Okay, so everything is awful for both teams.

This is an uplifting conversation we're having. Let's zoom back in on the winter classic. J.R., what is your favorite outdoor game memory? Doesn't that be one that you were at, but maybe it is one you were at? When you think of these outdoor games, I mean, we've had over 40 of them now, and a lot of them kind of, you know, every football stadium looks the same, but which one stands out in your mind? Yeah, you know, I'd like to speak to the ones that I attended, you know, a couple on TV.

I look pretty good. Obviously, the Sydney Crosby moment, but I like to talk about the ones I attended. The one at Bush Stadium, you know, I know there was a fog there and you couldn't get a good look at the arch like everybody was hoping to do. But that alumni game, guys, I know people aren't going to, you know, look back outside of St. Louis on that alumni game. But you're talking 45,000 people for a Blues Blackhawks alumni game, and they still talk about it in St. Louis today. And the main reason is because the league actually recommended that they don't do one. When St. Louis brought it up, they

said, no, we don't recommend that. And they did do it. And there were 45,000 people in that Bush Stadium for that game. So that was great. The other thing, you know, you look back, there's a picture that has made the rounds in St. Louis. Vladimir Tarasenko taking a selfie with the crowd behind him. You know, when I think about

the Winter Classic, I think about fans and how they get to enjoy it and how 20, 30 years later, they can tell their kids, grandkids that they were at the Winter Classic. So for that picture with Tarasenko to kind of turn around and have all the fans included, I'm sure some fans in St. Louis have that picture, and maybe they're in the picture hanging in their cave down in the basement. So, you know, that's a fun one. And then in Minnesota, St. Paul, Minnesota, a couple years ago, Blues, Minnesota Wild,

minus 9 degrees. Guys, my iPhone shut down. I didn't know an iPhone could shut down due to the cold, but it absolutely did. And I'll never forget, you know, when you think about celebrities being at games, John Ham was at that game and he was outside in that minus 9 degree weather and all of a sudden I'm in the press box I see the door open

and here he comes sprinting in the press box to soak up some of that 72 degree air he said I gotta get out of this Noted athletic subscriber John Hamm yeah how about that he did come out to me one time I think that was a 2020 All-Star game yeah in St. Louis

and he came up to me and he said hey I'm a subscriber and I said wow I say hey, do me a favor. Grab your phone, point to the app. Let me take a picture. I got to get some, I got to get some brownie points with the co-founders here. Scott,

what game stands out to you? I think this little field one was just, it was, I mean, the weather elements usually bring this out of it. And the fact that we had snow that night. And, yeah, just kind of perfect winter evening.

And yeah, that's the one. I, that was at the TAVES game? Was that? Yeah, that was the only time the Blackhawks have won an outdoor game. Yeah, maybe that was why it's memorable.

But I, I just remember it's snowing. All these games have blended together a little bit. And the fact that we both didn't cover the Wrigley one. So we missed out on that experience. But I think it was a soldier field one. Yeah, the soldier field one was funny because like J.R. said, we were, we were nice and warm in the press box.

And it was it was sub-zero that day. And you could see the fans directly in front of the press box, kind of looking back longingly at us as we're like taking off our jackets and getting a little comfortable and eating, you know, eating at the press buffet and everything like that. That was a good time. I still think I wasn't added, obviously, but the one at the big house in Michigan,

when it was it was 100,000, 105,000 people at a hockey game. That was really cool. I'm kind of looking forward to this one, this Blue Jackets, Michigan, Blue Jackets Red Wings one where they're trying to recreate Michigan,

Ohio State, at Ohio State Stadium, at the shoe. That's kind of what separates these, is these massive crowds, right? Because they all have terrible seats. They can't see squat. Like, it's a terrible, terrible place to watch a game,

but it's about the environment. It's about the atmosphere. It's about the excitement of the whole event. I feel like that one at Michigan Stadium really kind of captured that really well, where it didn't matter that you were a mile away and you couldn't see anything that happened. You were part of this huge community of fans that showed up for this huge event that is really unforgettable and then created some great visuals. And again, that's what the Winter Classic's about.

It's not about the fact that the Blues and the Blackhawks are bad. It's not about Connor Bedard. It's not about, you know, Dylan Holloway, whoever the blues are hitching their wagons. you. It's just it's about the experience. It's about the event. It's just fun to be there. You know, a lot of people will just probably flip on the TV, see what it looks like on TV, watch a little bit, and then move on to a college football game or to a party or whatever. But when you're there, they're really cool. So when these are in your town, you know, it's worth checking out because they are a lot of fun. With that, we're going to take another quick break. We come back.

We're going to talk about some non-winter classic news around the league. All right, we're back. Let's wrap up with a quick look around the league. Alex Ovechkin, man, I don't, I don't even stand to Alex Ovechkin right now. He misses six weeks, and then he scores in his first two games back. He's got 17 goals and 20 games this year. He needs 25 to pass Wayne Gratsky. He's got 46 games left to get 25 goals to get to 895, a number I'm not sure any of us ever thought that we'd see.

Looking at a lot of our friends at Bet MGM, Ovechkin is minus 110 now to get 895 during this season. He is now favored to score that goal this season, despite missing six weeks. what more can you say about Ovechkin at this point, guys? Yeah, right? Like, it's, I don't know. One thought that it was going to happen this season. And for him, the way that he started and then they have the injury.

And now this, it's just, it's, yeah, it's, it's remarkable that he's even going to approach it this year and potentially do it. It's just, we thought it'd be at least a couple of years away. J.R., this might speak to my, my stupidity in my, my hockey mind. But every time he scores from that left faceoff circle, I'm like, why don't they just cover him there? How is he always still so open there? That is the biggest mystery in sports.

Listen, I don't care what the biggest mystery in the NFL is, NBA, Major League Baseball. The biggest mystery in pro sports is how Alexander Ovechkin can be uncovered over in his office. It's just insane. It's insane. I know every P.K is designed to kind of like collapse in the middle and clog up the slot. But I would give someone else a free shot in the slot before I would give Alex Ovechkin all that time in space for a one-timer in the left circle. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. 20 years of this.

20 years of this. Just cover them. And you know which team in which city is the happiest that he happened to miss some games with the injury? Obviously, nobody wishes someone to be injured. But it's the St. Louis Blues. I did some calculation. And if he would have played these last six weeks, he was on pace to break Wayne Gresske's record in late February. And guess who's in Washington on February 27th, the St. Louis Blues.

So they could have been on the highlight reel, or if you want to call it. something different. That's real main character energy you got there, JR. That's what my daughter with today. Did we did, I mean, you know, we've seen Ovechkin coming now for a few years now, but growing up, you know, Gretzky had already basically had this record when I was a teenager. And it just seemed unattainable. I mean, obviously nobody's ever going to get his point total. But this seemed like an unattainable

goal to get 895 goals in the modern day NHEL. You watch those 1980s videos and you know, Gretzky, no offense to Wayne Gretzky, he's shooting against like five foot seven goalies wearing these spindly little gumby pads on there. They're playing stand-up hockey. They're just flailing and kicking and throwing their arms around trying to stop these pucks. And now he's going up against like six foot eight, 250-pound, technically sound monsters in the

RVH. I don't understand how he's able to do this. It's really one of the most incredible feats I've seen. No, it's really, really, yeah. I mean, so much has been said about his ability and just the fact that the consistency over the years. And yeah, the game's changed. and he's been there to see it almost from a lot of it too with evolution of some of this stuff.

And certainly he's not that old, but just the way that his, you know, the fact that he's, he's found it still, you know, like he, I think he's had to make some adjustments and even in the way that he's doing. And certainly, you know, the, the way the, the capitals have built a round of an player we covered in Chicago and Dylan Strome has been, been a major factor in a guy who, you know, who sees the ice so well, it can distribute the puck. And maybe not given that chance as much in Chicago. and, you know, he had some run with the brinket and Kane and just never worked. But, you know, a player who's matured over the years and it's really,

found his place in Washington and, you know, like, you just weren't sure whether he'd make him that NHL or maybe not, maybe not make it, but whatever the, whether he'd ever hit the potentially would. And to see someone like Dylan Strome having such a key role in this too, and it's, it's been kind of fun to see at least a player that we've covered and someone who's had such an impact on what Ovechkin's been able to do. Yeah, and to your point, Laz, to your point about, you know, being uncovered in his office there, it'd be awesome to be a fly on the wall in Gretzky's living room all those years.

I'm sure there were some games that he watched where he was like, are you going to cover that guy? He's right. You know where he's going to be. You can't talk about Ovechkin without talking about Sidney Crosby, federal law. Crosby passed Mario Lemieux with his 1,034th assists to become the Penguin's all-time leader. By the end of this season, Crosby's probably going to be in the top 10 in the assists of all time. This is a stupid question, JR, but do we take Sidney Crosby for granted? I mean, this is one of the five best players we've ever seen in the sport of hockey, isn't it?

Yeah, and, you know, it's a good question, fair question, I suppose, but I certainly don't take him for granted, and I don't think anybody else does, especially because his performance just has been so incredible, even in these latter years of his career. And listen, we've all had those moments where you're around these guys, and you see the impact they have. You know, you guys have seen it with Counter Bedard. You were talking about it earlier. But I vividly recall Pittsburgh coming to town a day or two ahead of a game with the St. Louis Blues. And Sidney Crosby was behind a black curtain kind of in a hallway behind a black curtain.

But the kids knew that he was behind that curtain. And I can still hear their voices in my head right now. Just 75, 100 kids yelling, you know, Sydney and Crosby. And, you know, he is who he is for a reason. And he made time to slip through that curtain and sign something. some autographs. So just the impact, I think, you know, you still see the 87 jerseys in every city, not just Pittsburgh. And I think that with the way he's played again, people still consider him one of the best players in the league, even at that advanced age. It's incredible that he is still,

you know, he's still a top 10 player year after year at his age. There's just been no drop-off. It's just like, I feel like we all know how great he is, but I also feel that he just gets taken for granted because he's just so consistent and so good. And just to round up Old Timers Day here, He got Patrick Kane, who Scott and I spent more than a decade covering. He had his 1,300th point. He's with the Red Wings now. I feel like Patrick Kane is kind of like fading from existence. Maybe this is just, you know, from my skewed perspective because he's not in Chicago anymore.

But, you know, Patrick Kane is one of those all-time players and one of the great players of his generation. And as of now, is still the greatest American-born player. I mean, Austin Matthews might get there someday. But that's Patrick Kane's mantle right now. And I feel like maybe it's because he bounced around a little bit. maybe it's because Detroit is pretty bad, but it feels like he's kind of fading from public view a little bit.

Do you get that sense, Scott? Yeah, and part of it is, I guess, being out of Chicago. His number is his production isn't the same. He's obviously battled some injuries since leaving Chicago, even late in late his time with the Blackhawks. And, you know, the fact that he didn't have maybe the impact with the Rangers, he was hoping, and Detroit hasn't taken off as he probably hoped, too. I mean, after leaving Chicago, the hope was, you know,

for him to maybe go, you know, maybe chasing some more cups and playoff runs and hasn't exactly worked out as he's wanted and just having that hip issue and, you know, just battling his age. I mean, he's obviously one of the older players in the league now too. So, you know, you still see those highlight plays and he still can make those, just the way his hands work and just how quick they are and what he can do with the puck is still at an elite level. But, yeah, I don't, I don't, I think obviously kind of his time is probably, you know, he's near

the end here. But, yeah, still the still producing still, you know, maybe not the same. same rate, but it seems like, you know, like, you know, he had a highlight goal the other day that was showing up and just how he snuck one in, you know, in the small, small spots and the score and, you know, the fact he's still with the brinkets and, yeah, he's like, he's a guy, you know, he's, he's going to continue playing until he can't. So I imagine we'll see him around and whether production is at that same level. I, yeah, it's unlikely, but it's, yeah, still, still plenty of records for him to. I'm sure to her down these, these few,

the last year's. It's a cool time to be. Yeah, I'll point out guys. Go ahead. Yeah, I'll point out guys that Patrick Kane, now number three, higher up on that list. Who is it? Brett Hall, who my good friend Luke Corrick here from NHL.com, pointed out a couple hundred fewer games for Brett Hall. So like Provel cheese, St. Louis, way up on that list.

Brett Hall, we always, Brett Hall's the reason we have to say U.S. born instead of American when we talk about Patrick Kane, is Brett Hall's kind of Canadian but kind of American, and it really complicates things. It's a cool time to be a hockey fan. You can talk about Ovechkin and Crosby playing at this level. You also got, on the other end, you got Badard and Celebrini and Mitchcoff,

all these really young guys. And then you got the guys in the prime of their career, some of the best we've ever seen in McDavid, MacKinnon, McCar, dry-sidal, Quinn Hughes. It's a really cool time to be a hockey fan right now where you got all these generations kind of peeking at the same time. That's all for us. Scott, JR.

Appreciate you coming on. Thanks for listening to the Athletic Hockey Show. Please leave us a five-star rating and review if you're enjoying the show. Max Boltman, Corey Promin, Chris Peters, and Scott Wheeler have the next athletic hockey show post-game Canada, U.S. at the World Juniors on New Year's Eve. Have a safe and happy New Year, everybody.