The Athletic Hockey Show - Will Linus Ullmark be the downfall of the Senators?

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

A lost Linus Ullmark had a night to forget in Tampa Bay, and the Senators playoff push stalled after getting pounded by the Bolts. The guys ask if Edmonton would trade their struggling goalie Tristan Jarry straight up for Ullmark. They discuss the equally bad Red Wings who wrapped up their fourth straight brutal March. The guys dive deep into Keith Pelley's 'strange' press conference in Toronto and the search for a new management team for the Leafs, plus Sean and Sean stick tap another exciting goalie fight and the reigning GM of the year, Jim Nill getting a two year extension with the Dallas Stars.  Host: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frank CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff DometWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. What up, what up? It's the athletic hockey show for April 1st, 2026. I am Sean Gentile. I am joined by Sean McIndo and Frankie Carrado. Boys, I think we have one goal today. As you get off to a better start than the autonomous founders did last night against the Florida Panthers. It was a full night of games. We're going to talk about a few of them. But we need to start there, guys. Frank, you were on for that game work-wise. five goals in the first period for Ottawa against Florida.

This is must-win game for them because they're all must-win games. But man, what happened? Because I wasn't watching the first period of that game. And then I checked it on the score. And I was like, okay-dokey, don't have to pay attention tonight. Thank you. Thank you guys. I appreciate the clearing the decks like that.

You want to get off to a good start for this show? We'll get into the game. But how about I just lob this up there for you? And you tell me who says no. Tristan Jari for Linus Allmark. Who says no? We're going to pretend that we haven't been kicking this around and one way or another for the last few days.

It's been in the group chat. I'm not going to lie. It was in the group chat. It got thrown out there. It got pretty soundly rejected with the answer being Ottawa says no. And I think after last night, maybe we revisit. By the way, guys, I just want to let you know. I'm not really feeling it today, so I'm just going to...

Is it okay if I just take this one off? Yeah. No, I think what you should do, Sean, is stay on and just you can sit there. You'll be in your little box, but you don't have to do anything. You can just hang out there. All right. For about the first third of the show and then, you know, segment one and then you won't see me again. Okay.

I think we just need to make something like abundantly clear for everyone who, you know, has been affected by mental health issues either personally or secondhand. It's a very real thing, and we should never deny that, and we should make sure that we help people when they need the help. With that being said, if you are making yourself available to play, meaning you're on the bench or you're in the net or you're on the ice, that means you're available. So there's like a certain industry standard requirement that you're on the bench, that you're on the ice. That means you're available. So there's like a certain industry standard requirement that you need to meet if you're going to make yourself available. If you're not okay and you can't be available, then you have to recuse yourself and the team

will do everything they can to help you out and make sure that you're getting the necessary help that you need. But I think this is important in the case of Lena Solmark where, man, you're sitting on the bench, you haven't played in a couple days. You don't play. You don't play for a couple more days, like, that's where you got to, you got to kind of come to the table. Like, the team has been coming to the table for him a lot.

They've done everything they possibly can. And then last night, eight seconds in, should be mentally and physically refreshed and ready to go. Makes a mistake. And it costs them a goal. And it only got worse from there for him, for the team.

And they never had a chance of winning that game. And it was a night where Detroit lost, Columbus lost. There was opportunity, and they didn't grab a hold of that opportunity. Now, it keeps them alive a little bit, but you could have made some ground up there and you weren't able to. There's five goals on 16 shots for Allmark, including that one, a couple seconds into the game.

There was also another segment where he allowed two and 34. Yeah, Frankie, I'm on board with everything you said. You know, we do need to preface, I guess. analysis of All Mark's play with what he was dealing with early in the season. But like, you're in the net, man. Like, there's, and then people are free to, free to criticize based on that. If you can't, if you can't play, you can't play. But five shots on 16 goals with just bizarre body language and all of it, man, it's, it's not, it is not a good situation. And, and the context here, if people haven't been following it, is that,

there was at some point an expectation that he was going to play on Saturday against the Lightning and that he apparently indicated to the team to the coaches that he was not good to go for that game. And it's it's been expressed in a few different ways, you know, that he said he, you know, that he wasn't feeling it or that it. Frankie's right. I mean, whether it's physical, mental, fatigue, anything this time of year. I mean, some players are good to go and some are not. And that is something every team deals with. Every player is dealing with to some extent.

But there was, you know, there was some talk, you know, Frankie, your buddy, O'Dog had a clip that went a little bit viral where he was criticizing Allmark for not being available on Saturday. And I think that, you know, I can tell you up here in Ottawa that it didn't go over so well. Like, people were defending their guy, defending their player. And certainly given everything he's been through this year, I think rightly so. Understand of that part of it's understandable. There's a lot of sympathy and empathy. But after last night, it's tough because look, here's the bottom line. However you want to play this, whether you want to treat this, whatever's going on with

Mark as, you know, treat it the same as you would treat an injured. You know, a player is just not, he's not good to go at this time of year. Whatever it is, they need this guy. They are right in the mix. They are still in the mix. Last night, as bad as the scoreboard looked, it didn't really cost them all that much because everybody else lost. They're right there.

But how do you do it without an $8 million goal? and you don't need this senator's team. We've said this before. They don't need the $8 million goalie to be $8 million bucks worth every single night. They don't need great goaltending. They need okay goaltending because the rest of the team is good enough to win games with the goalie being just okay. That's what they need from the $8 million guy. And if for whatever reason he can't be that guy down the stretch, that potentially torpedoes a seat.

in Ottawa. And it's a real tough situation. And then what, given, you know, remember the context. Ottawa finally makes the playoffs last year. Great. Now you're getting ready to take a step forward.

And instead, Montreal is kind of blown past you. The sabres have blown way past you. Boston is back in it and you're sort of left sitting there going, what's going on? And there's, when the music stops and, all the chairs are occupied, especially in the Atlantic Division, there's going to be at least

one and maybe two teams in Ottawa and Detroit that are going to have some really, really tough questions because there's not enough room for all of them at this point. After last night, I think we can say Boston's in. So there's one spot left. And there's going to be, there's not going to be any positive framing for whoever doesn't get that. No. And you know what? This whole Allmark situation, I feel like, it's gotten to the point now, whether they make the playoffs or not, they're going to have to have serious conversations about what they do with that contract next year. Like, would they not be at the point where they look at it and say, we just can't bring him back? We might have to just eat the

buyout and it's going to suck and it's going to cook our salary cap structure, but we might just be better off cutting our losses and saying, we got to go in a different direction. And there's another goalie or goalie tandem out there because realistically like James Reimer's not getting any younger and he's a bit of a bandaid at this point for that team. But like if I had to handicap a percentage that the Ottawa senators would be coming back with two different goalies next year, I think I'm in the high 70s. I think that's that's a reasonable expectation. That's why I float that out there to you guys. Like who says no, Jari for Allmark? Because it feels like Edmonton doesn't want to put Jari in the net. They're done with him and it just got started. And like Ottawa's

done with Linus Allmark. So, or they, you would think they're done with Linus Allmark. Yeah. And the way we framed this when we were, you know, texting about it a couple days ago, my initial thought was, yeah, as it relates to Jari for for Omar who says no. I was like, I don't, I, I initially was like, I don't know if the, I don't know if the sense can do that. Like, I, I, I think there's maybe some degree of upside with Allmark, maybe that there's, that there's now with Jari. And then you look at the contract. Edmonton says no.

Trust me. Edmonton says no. Edmonton says no. Because there's three years left for Allmark after this one, three years remaining on that contract for 8.25. So even if you think both of those guys stink and you don't want either of them around, one of them makes a significantly, has a significantly larger. AIV for two extra years.

Like it is an, it's a no, it's a no brainer. And that is, and that is not, you know, we laughed whenever I laughed, whenever I laughed, whenever got brought up in the first place, right? But then, then you start thinking about it. And it's like, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, Edmonton passes on it. It's Edmonton. It's absolutely Edmonton who says no. And, like, Linus Allmark has a full no move clause.

like that is an anchor, an absolute anchor of a contract. So what are you going to do? They're in a really tough situation. And they're essentially at this point at the mercy of their goaltender. Like their playoff hopes, yes, there's some injured guys. And I think last night it really goes to show you how much missing Sanderson and Shabbat and Nick Jensen for that matter is really catching up to them. because Tyler Cleven's a good player, but he's playing 27 minutes a night.

Jordan Spence is a good player, but he's playing 26 minutes three out of the last five games. You know, you're asking a lot of those guys. But you are at the mercy of Linus Allmark. And that's the coach. That's the players. That's the GM. It's really not fair to all those guys that have been busting their you know what's all year to try and get into this playoffs. And a lot of courageous, resilient efforts, and it all hinges on this one guy.

and if he's available for you or not. It's not fair to them. Let me throw this at you. Okay. Sabres, wild, hurricanes, lightning, panthers. What are those teams have in common? That's, you could answer, well, I mean, that's four of probably the six best teams in the league, and then the Panthers who are still two-time defending champions.

The other thing they have in common is that's the next five opponents for the Ottawa Senate. there's no break coming here. There's no get right game. There's no, okay, you know what? Let's, we've got an easy one, so we'll throw them in there, let them get a good game in. Now, all those games are at home, so that's the plus side. But this, the senator's team, this is the make or break stretch.

And it's very tough. And there's just, there's no room for error. I mean, they probably need minimum five points. I would say out of those next four games, probably six out of the 10, and that's assuming that nobody else around you gets red hot, which is maybe a good assumption based on what we've seen recently. Yes, that's like, that's the big, that's the big variable, right? We've mentioned it. And that's also, it's also by last night hurts because we, playoff odds just dropped from Dom. He's got him at 50%, basically same is, same as Columbus.

the fact that they're even that high in any model is kind of wild. But it's also an indicator of like if they could have done something last night because of the way the rest of the scoreboard shook out, like they'd be in a significantly better spot. Yeah. And like Detroit loses and you just brought up Ottawa's schedule. Have you seen who Detroit is going to play coming up to finish the season? They're going to have Philly twice.

Don't blink now, but the Philadelphia Flyers. Like, they're on fire. And they've kind of arrived into this picture for the playoffs very quietly. They've got the Flyers twice. They've got the blue jackets once. And they could beat up on the Rangers potentially on Saturday. And they're going to finish with a Florida swing. Like, things have gone really bad for the Red Wings since the, I don't know, I guess the Olympic break.

Like once March hit, like typical Red Wings fashion, it's been a terrible March. But like destiny is still in their hands. probably more than it is in Ottawa's hands. It does, it does, it feels that way. It feels that way even though the, even though the, even though the computer doesn't like them all that. It doesn't, it doesn't like them quite as much. It doesn't like them because like the way they're playing. Like, yeah, they're, they're not playing quality hockey.

They got, they got dummied last night by Pittsburgh. That game was non, non-competitive. Like, that'd be it, because of the first period. I was, I could not believe the way that came out of that one. So, I mean, having destiny in your own, hands isn't a good thing when you're playing like this, right? Like, you'd rather have it be in other teams and the scoreboard and all that stuff because they stink right now. Or at least they stunk last night and all of last month. It's April now. So maybe that, you know,

if they've actually got it in their heads that March is the month in Detroit where everything goes off the rails. Which they might. They might be the only, they might be the only folks we're happy to wake up today and see the calendar was April 1st. The rest of us are rolling our eyes going, oh, we got to deal with the whole day at nonsense. They're thrilled because they're saying March is over. But, boy, I mean, you talk about the, I mean, we talked about Ottawa, what happens if they miss. And it's a disaster, yes, but also it's a disaster that you can look back on and say,

okay, we were right there, we had lousy goaltending, we got crushed by some injuries on the blue line down the stretch. What do you say if you're Detroit when it all ends up happening again? I said this on my other show yesterday. The Red Wings are starting to turn into what the Leafs have been for the last decade just a month early. They're the Leafs who don't even make the first round. They're the Leafs who have their playoff meltdown two weeks before the playoffs rather than the two weeks into it. it's i don't know what you do if you're detroit and you end up missing and i'm saying if

you know this is this race i mean it's changing every it's changing every day right you look on whatever the scoreboard is that changes it things and there's a real good chance at by next week we're talking about red wings are on fire and they're looking great but i mean geez we i i i just put my shovel away from bearing the washington capitals and yeah there's a point they're a point A hand shoots up out of the ground. They're a point behind Frankie's Philadelphia Flyers because they beat them in regulation last night. The capitals, by all right, should be deader than a doornail right now because of the way stuff is shaken out. And they are not.

To borrow a phrase from Connor McDavid, this Eastern race, and maybe this is just us overreacting to one night, but it's starting to feel like a bit of a pillow fight. And it's, you know, the good news for all those teams, Detroit, Ottawa, on down the line. who lost last night is that everyone else around you lost, so you didn't lose into ground. The bad news is Boston and Pittsburgh winning really made this feel like it went from a whole bunch of teams fighting for three spots

to a slightly smaller bunch of teams fighting for just one. And the crazy thing right now in Detroit is I don't know how many times their head coach can try and convey the same message. Like any time they have this bad loss, it's, you know, he's rolling out there and he's asking for will and compete and drive. And even last night, he's like,

it's actually a combination of technique and skill as well. Is that not everything? Like, if it's skill and will and technique, like that is, you're literally saying we did everything wrong. Other than that, they're crushing it. Right. If you go back and look at the way that they've lost these games, because again, they were playing at a 101 point pace by the end of February.

they had the ninth best points percentage in the league. They were solidly in it. In March, they go 5, 7, and 2. That's after going 4, 10, and 0 in March 2025, and 3 9 and 2 in March of 2024, and 5, 9 and 1 in March of 2023. Like, everybody could see it coming to some extent. But the issue, and we got into this earlier, but it bears repeating, this isn't goal-tending, this isn't injuries,

This isn't, you know, a weird run of bad luck. This is a team finding a bunch of different ways to lose games at the absolute worst time of the year for the fourth consecutive season because they're coming out slow. That's what they did against Pittsburgh. They're blown games late, which we've seen it a bunch of times. They can't beat teams on back to backs, which is incredible. They're one three and one against teams on the second half of back to backs this month. If you're in a playoff race, like is there is there any word? state to be and then getting three points in 10 games against teams that, or three points

out of 10 rather, against teams that have played the night before. It's crazy. It doesn't seem like anything's really working, right? And then you have McClellan coming out and saying it's, yeah, it's technique and it's in its will. That is, that sums it up. And that's why I feel like they're, regardless of what the odds say, I feel like they're absolutely in worse shape than the Ottawa Senators now because there is no lightning bolt fixed. You can't just hope that James Reimer has a couple good games and gets you back in it, right? They're they're a mess. Soup the nuts. I know, man. Okay, so they're living life in the Atlantic Division. And I don't know if you guys learned anything from the hockey world yesterday, but there is a couple trains coming in the Atlantic.

and it's the Buffalo Sabres who have won two in a row and the Montreal Canadians who have won six in a row all in regulation. We don't talk about them anymore. They're in pretty cushy spots, but I guess if you're taking a scope of that division, well, here we go. Tampa, really good.

Buffalo, really good, not going anywhere. Montreal, really good, not going anywhere. Ottawa's a goalie away. And then you think about Detroit. Well, first of all, Boston, bounced back in a big way. Like where does that leave Detroit in the future? And how much different can it look next year

if they do miss the playoffs? And by the way, you just listed all the teams ahead of them. Look in the rearview mirror. Lord of Panthers aren't going to be doing this for you. Forgot about them. They're back next year. They're all rested and they're going to be back. Being, you know, missing the playoffs again next year.

No way. Healthy Barkov, forget it. Full season worth of. charging the batteries for next year. You know, Barkov on a line with Gavin McKenna? Like, it's not, it's not going to happen. Son bitch. Meanwhile, just so everybody knows,

Buffalo Savers wake up in first place today by two points. And, you know, I mean, we're talking about playoff races, so we're not talking a ton about Montreal, Tampa, but I'll take that first round series. Let's go. I'll take that after last night. after, you know, with all the history and everything here. Yeah, let's go ahead and do that.

That'd be plenty of fun. Unless Montreal wants to run the table and finish first and give us Buffalo, Tampa, take that too. You know what? Up to you, Buffalo, Tampa. Montreal Canadians, but I think either one of those would be pretty, pretty good. Frankie, what's your pick? What do you want in the Atlantic Division first round?

I don't care because we don't do the games, to be honest with you. Like, that's my, my opinion is very self-serving. Selfish. Selfish guy here, not a team player. Yeah, I know. I like the Montreal Tampa thing just because of the Marty San Luis storyline. Like, he's right in the middle of it. I think there's a chance that you should, that you should pick that one just to get your, just get your buddy here potentially on the road for Montreal Tampa.

I think there's a chance. I think there's a chance that would be a work assignment for me. So fingers crossed that. I like that for you. All right, boys. first segment, we're going to come back and talk about, our favorite topic, Toronto mess. Keith Pelly,

Brad for Trillivin. Coming up next with two guys who have a certain degree of funness for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Stick around. All right, boys, we're back. In Toronto yesterday, we had a Keith Pelley press conference where he's talking about the search for people to replace Brad Trilliving, some kind of post-mortem on the firing there. Pellie spoke yesterday.

Um, one word comes to mind when we talk about the, about the presser there. I think it was weird. I think that was a weird showing by Keith Pelley yesterday. Talking about data driven decisions, which is fine. But that, you know, that's the poll quote, I guess. But it was mixed in with a bunch of other corporate goo-goo and then just the vibes were, the vibes were off. So Mac and Do, let's just start there. What are you thinking when you're watching that man speak yesterday?

I am, all right, I'll give you the general and then I'll drill down a little bit. The general is. I'm going to turn my mic off, by the way. I don't even, you might not need it here. No, we're good. I'll say this. First of all, to all the other fan bases, welcome to the Keith Pelly experience. because that's a name that's been known in Toronto now for a little bit.

But if you're outside of that market, if you're outside of that fan base, you probably heard it once or twice. He kind of heard it when Brandon Shanahan got let go, but you haven't been super familiar with him. And I will give him credit in the sense that given the firing of Bradshaw Living, he needed to do this yesterday. He needed to get up there and sort of not so much face. the music because it wasn't like it was an unpopular decision, but somebody needed to get up and

answer some questions. That's clearly not something that he's fantastic at, and I would assume that he probably is aware of that, and he's not looking to be the face of the franchise, but for now, he kind of is, and so he got up there and he did his job, and that's fine. I will say when it comes to the whole, you know, we're going to make data-driven decisions. That's great. That's what you should be doing. But here's my question. If you're making data-driven decisions, how were you completely blown away by Montreal being good this year?

How were you completely blown away by the Buffalo Sabres being good? A team that the analytics said was maybe a little bit undervalue coming into this year, Nobody thought first place in the Eastern Conference. So, I mean, yes, in that sense, it's a surprise. But how were you shocked by the Buffalo Sabres being a playoff team this year? And there's been this talk in Toronto, some of it from Keith Pelley himself, that this team is still pretty good. They just had some injuries. There was the condensed schedule, had some bad luck.

The goaltending obviously took a bit of a drop. none of that squares with being a data-driven organization, which tells me that one of a few things is going on. Either A, this focus on data is something new, in which case, what were you doing for the last year? Or they, it's just not true, and they're not doing things based on data, and he's just saying something that he knows the audience wants to. hear. Or, this is the one, as a Leafs fan that really scares me, that Keith Pelly is one of those guys who loves the data as long as the data tells him what he wants to hear. And he's now got people feeding him, people who have figured out that if you want to stick around, you've got to tell the boss what he wants to hear. And I've been in that situation. I think a lot of people have been

in that situation to some degree where it's like the boss comes in and says, hey, I'm a straight shooter, open door, all of this stuff, but you very quickly figure out that that policy only applies as long as you're patting them on the head and telling them that everything's great. And I have seen that situation a few times. I have never seen it work. I have never seen it turn into success. It fails and it usually fails very quickly. So that's my question for Keith Pelly is, what are we doing with the data if the data led you so disastrously wrong in so many different ways this year. One of the quotes, and I'm like just rereading the thing that CJ wrote for this morning, Chris

Johnston, a good breakdown of whatever that was yesterday. This is Keith Pelley-Dohy. AI is massive. It is changing our business. The whole thing with data is everyone now has access to data and everyone's going to have access to AI. It really comes down to how you utilize it and how smart you are. That is like any executive over the last five years gave that same speech about any in any field at all.

It is boilerplate boring, non-specific, deliberately non-specific corporate nonsense. And it's the way that AI weirdos talk about their own products, by the way. You're like, well, okay, like, what do you mean by that? AI is really important. how how is this applied what do you mean by that well it's just really important it's going to change stuff right how is it going to change stuff well it's definitely going to change stuff there's a degree of non-specificity when people like that talk in those terms that should terrify everybody because they don't know regardless of what regardless of the field you're in that's because they

don't know and that's you know like the the people the AI people don't really know exactly what's what it's going to look like, or at least maybe they're not telling us. It's speculative bets, absolutely. Right. Across the board. And so I guess if you want to relate that to the press conference, I think one of your takeaways, out of a few takeaways, is that they don't know. They don't know what it's going to look like. They don't know who they're going to hire. They don't know structure was a big word. They don't know what the structure of the organization is going to look like yet. They don't have the search firm in place yet that's going to look for the candidates. So it was a lot of saying, We have a philosophy that we want to have a structure, but we don't know exactly what that is yet.

And so that takes a lot of time to figure out. They'll have to sift through that. That was one takeaway. The other takeaway, and I'm sure DGB, you were thinking the exact same thing I was thinking. As soon as he said data-centric or data-driven was that Kyle Dubis, the guy who was previously the general manager, if he was a UFA today, or if he was in the organization today, he would be, strapping on his boots and saying, I'm the general manager or I'm the president. And he would be the guy in charge. And he's done a very good job in Pittsburgh. But that's, that popped into my head. So the pendulum swung so much in that organization that essentially they went from data driven with, you know, Brennan Shanahan lurking in the background. We don't know how much involvement

there was there. But let's assume there was some or else it wouldn't have ended the way that it ended. They went from that to trust your gut. Trust your gut. We're hockey guys. And that's what we're going to do. And we're going to get this thing over the edge with grit and determination and passion. And then what they forgot when they looked at the Florida Panthers is that the Panthers are one of the more data-driven teams in the NHL. And you would look at that and say, well, what data did they need to know that Matthew Kachuk was a good player?

Sam Bennett was going to hit goalies. And it's like, well, they needed to know that when they made a trade for Sam Reinhart or Sam Bennett or they plucked Gus Forsling off waivers or they traded for Luosterinen, like that those guys, there was something under the hood that said they were going to work well in this system with these players as Florida Panthers. So that's why you need the data. And so, you know, they're going to have to figure out what their structure looks like. They're going to figure out who's a data-centric guy.

But I think this is the big thing. And I said this on overdrive yesterday, and I'll say it again to whoever is a different audience here. But there's probably four big issues right now with the Maple Leafs. It's poor roster construction, anchor contracts, no draft picks, and a weak farm system. So what executive is going to go into a meeting with the CEO of MLSE and sit there with a straight face and tell him, I can have this thing turned around in a couple of years. I don't need to retool or I don't need to rebuild it. Like I can, if they're lying to you, they are lying to you to trying to try and get a job

because any real executive that understands what's going on knows that those four things are not a quick turnaround. And this team needs to have some kind of like deep evaluation and rebalancing or retook, whatever you want to call it, but it's not a quick fix. everybody wants data until the data tells you something you don't like and I think Keith Pelley is about to figure that out and also from a structural standpoint like did it not sound does it not seem like

the best fit here is to have a poho situation who's like kind of a hockey guy but also a buffer for people like Keith Pelly and then to have like maybe a more data driven traditional general manager like doesn't that seem like doesn't that seem like that's what the structure should be and it doesn't that seem like that's the that's the structure they just detonated it like a couple years ago Keith Pelly detonated one year ago when he you know because they had that because look I don't buy a lot of this talk about how Toronto's such an incredibly tough market and you just oh it's it's it's you know all of this stuff I think a lot of that is

excuses but I will acknowledge that it's going to be tough if you hire it look a data driven GM Kyle Dubas isn't coming over. Good luck getting Eric Tulski. Those are kind of the two guys that a lot of people look at as being super data-driven. There's a whole bunch of guys in other organizations, including one down in Florida, who might make pretty good candidates. Sunny Mada, yes. But those are going to be first-time GMs.

You're going to drop a first-time GM who's a data-driven guy into Toronto and have them be the face of the franchise? In the face of the hockey, of hockey. Hockey Ops to the MLSE boardroom? Like absolutely not. And also, by the way, in front of the, also the face to a fan base that has, that is not, it's not feeling very pleasant about this organization right now. That's a super tough ask. So the seemingly obvious answer is get the president of hockey ops, have that be somebody

with a bigger personality, with some name recognition. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. I don't know if you know anyone, Sean, if you've got anyone in your phone who, uh, any recent calls that you could, you could maybe dial up. But you get that. I mean, that, that seems that's what they had with Brandon Shanahan and Kyle Dubas. And look, the Brandon Shanahan era ultimately didn't work in the sense that they didn't, they didn't do enough winning in the playoffs and things kind of crumbled at the end. But the first few years of that were fantastic. It worked exactly right. Brandon Shanahan was the perfect guy for that role early on. Kyle Dubas. eventually, you know, when they went from Lou and they had Mark Hunter and that, they chose the right guy. They had it all set up well. And then Keith Pelley came along, made the decision to move on for Brennan, which I don't

think too many people objected to by that point, but then said, we're not going to do it. We're not going to have a president anymore. Why? Why was that decision made? Why was it just suddenly it was just Bradshaw living is on his own? Was it because you thought that was the best structure? Was it money? Are we really doing counting pennies?

And that's, I mean, the other piece that's up today is, you know, Jonas has this fantastic piece about all of this kind of nickel and diming that the Maple Leafs are doing. And I say nickels and dimes. It's not nickels and dimes to me. You're charging people a thousand bucks to go see the dressing room. But I'll tell you right now, for Rogers, who are going to be the, you know, the owners of this team very soon, a big, giant, you know, cable giant up here in Canada, these amounts of monies are rounding errors. I mean, I know it sounds crazy if you're a fan of a smaller market team to hear the, you know, this giant Toronto Maple Leafs now being referred to as if it's just, you know, one department

of this corporate monster. But that's what's going on. It's a rounding error. And if Keith Pelley is really focused on saving money, making a little bit more money here and there, I've got news for you. Here's the thing that is changing in Toronto. We are used to, we, I'm saying being Lee fans, we're used to not really loving the ownership.

I grew up in the Harold Ballard era, right? I went through the teacher's pension fund. All of this, and then it was Bell and Rogers, and now it's going to be just Rogers. What's different about just Rogers? I'll tell you right now, we all hated Harold Ballard. Harold Ballard's job was owning the Maple Leafs. He didn't have a bunch of other businesses that we could take our frustration on.

Pension plan? What am I going to? I'm going to boycott a pension plan. I'm not going to do that. Bell and Rogers together. I mean, they own everything in Canada. Now it's going to be one company with their name on this. And if the perception is that they're holding back the Toronto Maple Leafs,

this franchise that is so important to so many people in this country, over nickels and dimes and rounding errors on the bottom line, look out. I'm telling you're a board member of Rogers, if you're way up high in that chain and you're not seeing this train coming, you're not paying attention. Here we go again with the train. You know what? Look at the data. Look at the data.

Train references today. I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. Absolutely not wrong. But do we honestly believe that pick your big companies. in Canada, all the banks, the insurance companies. You guys have like eight or ten companies up there, right? We're getting up there. We almost have a dozen companies in Canada now.

Are they going to stop, like, are they going to stop purchasing suites and season tickets at Scotia Bank Arena? I don't know. I doubt it. No, they're not. It's the center of all the corporate stuff. They're not. What's going to happen is what is going to happen when if I is a Leaf fan am sitting there

and our stupid ownership is doing this and that again. And for the first time in 40 or 50 years, when I want to have my little temper tantrum instead of throwing a remote at my TV or punching a wall, I can make a phone call and say, you know what, switch my cable over to a competitor. Uh-oh. Now I've actually got something I can do. And I'm telling you, if this goes the way it could go, there's going to be a couple years from now. There's going to be executives and Rogers going, why have we lost such a big chunk? Oh, right, because we put a guy in charge of the maple leaves and told him to nickel and dime everything. They can't do it, man.

It can't be an option for them. Nickel and diamond can't be an option for them. And I think you have to go back and you have to have the Tim Lie Wiki model where it was by all means necessary and all expenditures necessary. You need to do whatever we need to do to win. So that means, okay, let's hire Brendan Shanahan. Well, Shanney, you don't have any NHL team front office experience. So here's what you do. Go out and get the best general.

manager and pay him a ton of money. So go get Lou Lamarillo. Okay. After that, let's go and get the best head coach we can possibly get and pay him whatever he wants. And we went out and we got Mike Babcock. And then after that, we're not after that, but before that, get us the brightest young mind that we can groom to run this team at some point. So you get Kyle Dubus and you pay him a lot of money. And I think that is what needs to happen here in Toronto. It's spend. however much we need to spend, get whoever we possibly need to get. And by all means necessary, we're going to try and win. Did it work?

No, clearly. They're trying to pick up the pieces right now. But I think if I was having my pick at this thing, like we're going to hear all the candidates come out now and, you know, who's going to be the president, who's going to be the GM, who's being interviewed, who's available, who's not. This would be my pick. I would have Mike Gillis as the president and I would have Brandon Pridham as the general manager. And I would surround him with some hockey people. And I think that satisfies a lot of things that we're talking about. A president who has been through the ringer, ringer.

One went away from a Stanley Cup having to deal with what he had to deal with in Vancouver, ownership on down. And then a GM who's data driven, who's very well liked and highly regarded within the organization and externally, and knows the organization. He doesn't have to come in and learn about it on the fly. He's seen it all happen with both regimes now, and then you could have your hockey people around him. That would be my choice if I was doing this thing. And then the last thing there, because you're right, they nailed all of this at the start of the Shanahan era, but then there was one more step, which is once you've got all that in place,

empower everyone and be willing to make tough decisions and tough adjustments when you need to. And that's what ended up ultimately causing the failure of the Shanahan era was they got paralyzed. They couldn't make a tough decision. They kicked the can down the road every time, whether it was Sheldon Keith losing every year in the playoffs. Do we make a coaching change? Ah, let's give them one more year. Do we move on from Mitch Marner before the no move kicks in? No, you know what?

I'm sure that'll work itself out. Even Brandon Shanahan himself, they waited until his contract expired to move on from him. They just couldn't seem to make a tough decision. And I think that can be a personality thing, whether it was Shanahan or whoever else, but it's also an organizational thing. People have got to feel empowered to make the tough call. It can't be, I've got to run everything by a committee. It can't be, oh, I've got to talk to the book.

Okay, I've got to, I want to make this trade, but I got to talk to Keith Pelley. And then Keith Pelley's got to talk to the board of Rogers, and we've got to have this whole situation. So we'll get back to you in a week. That doesn't work. And that's, you know, Mike Gillis, I'm sort of on the fence a little bit about that name being out there. But our colleague Thomas Drance had an interesting point where he said part of the reason that Mike Gillis has not resurfaced somewhere is that he is a guy who when he goes into an interview, he doesn't sugarcoat it. And he doesn't, and he doesn't sit there and act like the CEO or the owner or whoever he's talking to is as smart as him when it comes to hockey.

He sits down and says, I'm going to run things away. You're going to let me do it and get out of the way. These are the problems you have. Yes. Like, let me fix them. And then he, and get out of my way. And if that isn't acceptable, then don't hire me. And people don't hire it.

But that's the sort of guy that they need. But is that going to fly at Rogers where you've got all of these guys in suits who want to feel like cool sports guys and they kind of feel in the back, I've had a lot of success in the business world. I'm a pretty smart guy. I probably know as much as these guys. I probably have some insights into roster construction

that they'd really like to hear. And it's just they're playing make-belie. Are you going to torpedo the short-term and long-term chances of this hallowed, beloved sports franchise just so that a dozen guys in suits can larp around playing fantasy hockey, feeling like big shots? Yeah, maybe they will.

They might do exactly that if they get this higher rock. This is the hockey version of David Zazlav, like being in charge of, you know, HBO Max and stuff. That's shorthand for 15 people out there, but that's what's happening here.

Okay. You guys have anything else? That was like the easiest segment of my life. Good God. I'm sure we could find something else, but we probably got to wrap up. We're going to pick, this is fodder for next week.

We're going to be texting each other about this. I'm sure there will be some usable bits that we can talk about. This can just be a weekly thing where it's, what's, what's new with Toronto's executive search? I like that. Frankie,

have they scheduled your interview yet or is that? Still waiting for a call, man. Even just, I didn't get one of those external, like, pick your brain interviews either. I was hoping to get one of those. Did they let you sit down in the, did they make you pay a grand to sit down in the locker room and eat wagging?

No, no. But there is alumni involved in that. So maybe I could, you know, kind of chaperone some people. I would love to, I have a good, honestly. I would love to go back into the room and chaperone some people and wine and dine them.

I think that'd be cool. Just eating an ice cream Sunday out of Austin Matthews helmet while he sits there waiting to go on the ice. That costs an extra 500 bucks, though. To be honest with you, if I ever did that, I'd want to just hop into the equipment room one last time and grab some new gear. Where are you the rest of the week, man? Are you home?

I'm off to New York tonight. We have Habs Rangers on 3. Thursday tomorrow at MSG. So looking forward to that. And then back and then on the road a bunch to finish the year on April 15th. Apps Rangers. Maybe I'll watch that one.

All right. Rangers are feeling feisty these days. Mm-hmm. And Caulfield, JD, our producer, saying Coffield's a hat trick away from 50. Let's go. Let's go. Oh, man. Do it with Frankie Carado on the bill.

Do it on a Thursday. Don't save it for Saturday. Come on, man. It's happening by the end of the second period. We're getting a natural hat from cool coffee with Frank in the building. All right, but enjoy it. We'll talk you next week. See you guys.

All right, there goes Frankie McInto. What have we learned? What have we learned, Sean? I'll give you two things I learned. We both related back to the leaves. In the last segment, I learned that when Keith Pelly was talking about AI, he was not just talking about bringing back ally of Freedy. That's kind of what I had assumed. That's part of what he was talking about.

One of the AI mentioned was about Aliafraid. The other 15 weren't. Alex Iafalo is to Toronto. Alex Inagos. I spoke at E5. I learned, and again, this is, I learned that while it was a tough week to be Bradger Living, it was a pretty good week to be anyone else in a front office around the league who might be attractive to the Maple Leafs. because there is now suddenly a big

a big hunter out there looking for looking to hire some folks and if you need an extension today's a pretty good day to go have a meeting with the owner and I'm not even saying you walk in in the owner's office and you say I want to raise I want an extension I'm just saying walk in just have a little conversation

and then have your buddy with a 416 area code call you up on your phone and just make sure he sees that 4-1-6 coming. Yeah. Oh, I get to, hello? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I did hear about that. Interesting. Jim Nill, who, I mean, you're talking about the big-name GM, if the Leafs were so inclined,

he'd be just about the biggest of a ball. Coincidentally, signs an extension, the day, the very same day. No, no, no, no, no. He didn't sign it. That was done already. They had that finished and it was in a drawer and they just magically open the drawer and remembered that it was there when Keith Pelly's up there, you know, talking about large language models or whatever. What an interesting coincidence. But yeah, if you're out there and you're looking for, you know, a little bump, hey, maybe a few extra vacation days, maybe you're thinking it might be fun to have a foosball table in the office.

Now's not a bad day. Just pretend that Keith Pelly is calling you up and you can probably squeeze a little bit from the current boss and then not go to Toronto, which I think is called living the dream for 31 front offices around the league. Lots of front offices, front office members talking their bosses today and saying, I'm feeling pretty data driven, you know? Yeah. I woke up today and I just, I was thinking about data more than I ever have. before. I got up. I was, you know, waiting for the subway and I did see the train coming. I'm pretty good at seeing trains coming. Don't you agree? Oh, my God. Dude, we got a goalie fight. That's what I learned. I learned something specific about one of those guys that was in the fight.

Igor Chesterkin versus Jacob Markstrom last night. Don't think I knew that Chesterkin had that club in his bag. He kind of fed it to Markstrom. He started it. He was in the mix with Paul Carter, I think. on the devils, which is what set off Markstrom, Markstrom comes down, looks for some smoke, and Shestirkin gives it to him. That was unexpected. You know, some of the best advice that I ever got

was I had somebody tell me once, they said, if you're ever in a situation where you might be in a fight, you've got to very quickly figure out, does this other guy know how to fight? and you've got to, if they look like they're not worried, they're telling you the answer. And I got to say, Markstrom, I have full credit. And, you know, hey, it's been the year of the goalie fight and it's, you know, there's

devils and Rangers got nothing going on. Yeah, sure, get on down there, check something off the bucket list, all of that. But it was the moment when I was worried for him was when he got down to the ice and Shisterkin just kind of gave him one of these, like, just hold on a second, and started. doing the glove. Like, Igor Shistern could not have looked less concerned by the fact that another goal he had suddenly appeared in his peripheral.

He was not, he wasn't hyped. He didn't, you know, there was no, he wasn't startled. It was just like, yeah,

just give me a second. And at that point, that's got to be when Jacob Markstrom was like, I may have made a mistake here. Because this guy, this guy, I think I'm getting an answer to the question of, does this guy know what he's doing in a fight situation?

And, uh, you know what? credit to Igor Shostirkin because he's a guy that one of my very favorite subplots over the years with the Rangers is Igor Shasturkin trying to score a goal. He very clearly desperately wants to score that goal. This is the next best thing, you know? And we've talked about goalies having the Gordy Howe Hattrick for their career.

He's won away now. He's the heir parent of Flurry for goalies. you want to do other other stuff. Exactly. Because Flurry wanted the goal more than anything. I think Mark Andre Fleury might be there, apparent. Maybe he's next in somewhere, get him in there. Just for the fight.

We're going to put him in the last minute. He's going to shoot it in an open net. And then he's, I guess he can't shoot in an open net and have a goalie fight. I just kind of feel like we haven't said our proper goodbyes to Mark Andre Fleury. Yeah. He just, he left so abruptly. Like we didn't get a chance to really appreciate him. Three goalie fights this year after none since 2020.

And I really feel like this is one of those things where each one makes the next one more likely. And I don't know who's next. We almost got one Monday night. Anthony Stollers was trying to start to get going with Villahuso, who was like, dude, I'm half your size. And I didn't hit Austin Matthews. What are you doing? I'm not, but.

Anthony Stollar is 6'7, and he absolutely would have gotten hurt during that fight. This is what happens when save percentages are down around the league. These guys are frustrated. They're mad. They can't wear their same giant equipment. They can't put grandma's couch cushions under their sweater anymore. It's a tough time to be a goalie, and they're very frustrated. And that's why I'm not hanging out with Jesse Granger anytime soon, because I don't,

I don't know what he would do. All of these guys are out of their minds. Do you think we got one more in us for the end of the year? That's a good question. Is there an... Like, we got the March fight in under the wire. Stuff's getting weird, for sure. I feel like seven games or whatever's left is just not...

You know who it might be? Lena Selmark versus James Reimer. That might be the one. If we had a practice goalie fight, it feels like it's been a minute. Frankie did. Frankie to watch the sins, practice, goalie fight, and utter, utter disgust. Buddy, what's up for you today? I haven't checked the post.

I got a post up today. This is going to blow you away. It's about the Leafs and their GM search. A very, a very undercover topic. If you go to theathletic.com slash Toronto Maple Leafs need a new GM and you scroll for about 45 minutes. You can get down to my post. and it is eight tough questions that I want the Leafs to ask their next GM candidate. How did you land on eight?

I just started writing and for once I just let the number be the number instead of trying to force it to a nice round number. And I had to stop at eight because I mean you can't do not. You're going to do none. Is one of the questions, do you have a chat GPT pro subscription? Yeah. Do you have a chat GPT? As somebody on social suggested that one of the questions should be, are you Peter Shirelli? Oh, no.

That's a good one too. But no, I stayed a little more serious on this. I really think there are some tough questions that need to be asked and that I would like to see them ask. And I'm offering my consulting services to my good buddy, Keith Peli, and my pals and Rogers to help them. get this one right. I'm going to read that after we hang up. I'm excited. I can't get enough of this.

I love, I love Leif's executive executive sergeantuck. Give me more. Thank you, buddy. Thank you, Frankie, wherever you are. Three games in the NHL tonight, folks. It's Canucks, Avs, Blues Kings, Duck Sharks. You know what that means? It's a good night to do something else.

Go have dinner. See your families. Ignore this one because there's not that much on TV. inhale you're back tomorrow. Talk to you real soon.