The Athletic Hockey Show - Will the Panthers add more as the NHL trade deadline approaches?

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

The Panthers made a splash Saturday night ahead of the NHL trade deadline acquiring Seth Jones from the Blackhawks. The Athletic’s NHL insider Chris Johnston talks to Max and Laz about how the defending Stanley Cup champions are approaching this Friday’s deadline and which other teams to keep an eye on, as well. Plus, The Athletic’s own Peter Baugh joins the show to discuss the Rangers’ playoff outlook after sending Ryan Lindgren and Jimmy Vesey to the Avs, Laz weighs in on the Hawks side of the Jones deal, and more.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Chris Johnston and Peter BaughExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. This episode is presented by E-Trade from Morgan Stanley and a fitting sponsor right now, as it is Trade Deadline Month here. So let's go right away to bring in one of the busiest people anywhere right now, our NHL insider, Chris Johnson. CJ, thanks for making time for us this week.

My pleasure. What's going on, bud? Yeah, CJ, before we get into like, you know, the boring stuff about who's actually doing what, tell me what the next five days are like for you. Like, can you watch a movie? Can you have a meal? Are you just, are you just ruined for the next five days? Yeah, I can't do any of those things comfortably.

Obviously, I still have to live something of a life. But I could tell you, for example, I've just made like zero plans. And when I mean zero, I mean absolutely zero. I don't have kids. So, I mean, that's easier to do. But even my partner is going to see some family tomorrow and she just didn't even, like, there was no discussion. and then I would go with her.

So, you know, it's just sort of a time where you don't, you don't schedule anything that you wouldn't have to schedule because you know it could get blown up. And that's just the way it is. Now, there's a great trade-off. Look, we're down to the last few days of this. This time next week when we're chatting,

it's back to kind of a pretty calm lifestyle. But yeah, these five, six days, week out from the deadline, I just am ready to work at all times and not planning on sleeping and not planning on doing anything outside of my job. Well, that's the real problem is these things sometimes happen at like, you know, 11.30 p.m., 12.30 a.m. Eastern time. Like, do you have someone who's like on standby on the West Coast who will like wake you up or something if something happens?

I should probably think about that because honestly, as I'm getting older, I do like to go to bed earlier. Right. And, you know, I slept through a trade earlier. This pretty big trade when the Pedersen deal went down between Vancouver and Pittsburgh was almost midnight, Eastern time. and I literally woke up in the morning and my phone, you know, I'm like, oh, man. Whoops. But I mean, look at it seems to me, I actually been able to prove this, but this is just my feeling. It seems to be the last couple seasons are way more like late evening deals. Again, I actually have asked a couple people that would know and no one else seems to buy this.

But this is anyway, maybe my own recency bias. It just feels like we get a lot of Friday night, but also just. Friday night, Saturday night, always. Exactly, like at 11 p.m. Eastern time or whatever kind of trades nowadays. So anyway, it's a first world problem. I'm doing what I love. This is, it's a great week, too. Like, honestly, as much as sometimes it beats you down a little bit.

I mean, I love this as much as any of the fans out there. And I'm excited to see what happens. Well, we had one of those Saturday night trades last night during the stadium series game. The Chicago Blackhawks trading Seth Jones to the Florida Panthers kind of resolves a saga that had started to bubble a little bit there. Do you think the Panthers, obviously we see the Kachuk to LTIR move today. You think that means that the Panthers are still out there looking? 150% they're still looking. And it's kind of interesting.

Like you always think of teams like Vegas and Tampa, for example, like I always assume they're going to strike and do something, you know, consequential just because that's what the recent history has shown us in the past few years. I think Florida is still in that spot. And look, getting Seth Jones for them, I mean, there's two ways to look at this. could talk about, oh, it's great that the Blackhawks got rid of this contract and allows them to move forward and all this, but, you know, they still added a pretty good player in Florida. And I think that they are poised to get, you know, at least one more decent, decent player here

as a result of the moves that they can still make in the deadline. And, you know, having Matthew Kachuk's salary now on LTIR gives them a little bit more than $8 million in space, according to Puckpedia before the deadline. It doesn't sound like Kach. We have any reason to believe he'll be back during the regular season. So that's just free space that the Panthers have to add. Doesn't mean they have to. But I think not having Kachuk for that window of time,

they obviously have a lot of confidence too. They're going to make the playoffs. There's no, there's no question about that. And so, you know, I think that look for them to add another forward and maybe even bring in a depth goaltender

because obviously Spencer Knight was the backup to Sergey Bobrovsky this year before he was dealt to Chicago. This isn't so much a trade deadline question. But does adding Jones, does that spell the end for Aaron Eckblad? I mean, He's going to be a UFA. He makes about what Jones now makes for Florida with the retention, about $7 million.

He's somehow only 29. It feels like he's 50 years old, but he's only 29. Is this the end for Eckblad in Florida? Can they make that work? They can make it work, or they feel they can, especially with a rising salary cap. Like there's the ability there, I think, from the Panthers end of things to get a deal done. Now, whether they can match what the potential market is for someone like Ekblad, I think that remains to be seen. but I wouldn't say this 100% closes the door on his time there.

I mean, we're talking about a guy who was a first overall pick who was there when it was dreadful and has been there in the recent years when it's been much more glorious to be a member of the Panthers. And there's a lot of reasons to want to live and play in South Florida, especially when you have ties there as Error and Ekblad does. So the Panthers have some built-in advantages, namely being competitive, the attack situation, the weather, all those things. And so I wouldn't rule them out still finding a way to get Ekblad signed. but now they at least have some insurance already on hand in the event that he does go a test

for agency on July 1st. What other teams are you watching closely as this deadline approach? Obviously, there's a lot of intrigue around St. Louis. Is there anybody who's jumping out to you as a team you're monitoring really closely over the next five days? Well, generally speaking, I'm focused on the sellers at this point in time, especially in this market because there right now is not enough sellers. I think one of the reasons we've maybe had tepid action thus far is because of that fact. And so, like, I wonder, what does Boston do?

I mean, they have some obvious players that have been part of the trade board for a long time, guys like Trent Frederick, Justin Brazzo. But do they consider anything bigger? Like, this is the first time we've seen them sell in any of our sort of recent memories. What do the Islanders do? You know, Lou Amarillo is always such a wild card. You know, he's got Brock Nelson, Kyle Palmieri, at minimum, but there's other players on that team. It's an older team that if you're looking to refresh things, like, like, what goes on there. You know, St. Louis is a good example, Max, because they're a team that if they leaned

into being a seller, which I'm still not convinced they're necessarily going to do, you know, they have some interesting players. And, you know, from time to time this happens, you might recall two seasons ago, Washington at the last minute, kind of became what I would call a surprise seller. They traded Demetri Orlob at the time, who was a pending UFA. And they sort of actually sold and bought at the same deadline. But the point was is sometimes in the last couple days before the deadline, you get a team that moves like that. And I think it adds, because otherwise the market seems pretty flat, right? We've been able to identify which teams are at the bottom of the league, which players they might sell or trade at the deadline. And so right now it's sort of feeling a little,

to me, a bit stale, maybe because I've been looking so closely at those names. But I guess I'm looking around the league for where could a surprise happen? You know, what player might, are we missing? Because certainly I think teams looking for centers, there's not a ton of options there. There's a couple of the names, even defense. I mean,

there's different types of, I guess, blue liners that you're looking like some teams are just looking straight up for six, seven, eight guys, you know, depth.

There is a fair bit of that. But if you're looking for someone maybe to play in your top four on a good team, there's not a lot there. So that's a long way of saying. I'm, you're just looking at all those bubble teams to see if any of them will flip over

because that's what could make these next few. day is most interesting. Well, this is such a strange deadline, too, because I think when you look back on it, you'll be like, oh, 2025, a ton of stuff happened. Miko Ranthin was traded. Seth Jones was traded. J.T. Miller was traded. We're looking at like Brock Nelson right now is the most exciting thing that could happen, but at the actual deadline and even that's a maybe. Is that way, are you kind of trying to see it? Is anyone just going to come out of nowhere and make one of those Vegas trades that nobody sees coming that involves a big name? Or are we going to be kind of underwhelmed here going down the stretch? It's too soon for me to say we're going to be

underwhelmed. I'm actually still bracing for what I don't know. And I'm still thinking about where could the surprise element command? I mean, look, there's even a guy like Brock Besser in Vancouver who's unsigned and, you know, it feels like maybe like the Canucks have had kind of a weird year where they're selling and buying two. Does he come on the market? Um, you know, I'm not even going to mention a name that's in my head because I don't want to cause any problems here, but I just think there's a few star players out there that it's still like a possibility, uh, that they're traded. And so, you know, With a couple more days still, like I just am not willing to say it's underwhelming.

It's just right now you're right. Like everything's kind of stuck. You know, there's been a couple moves. And, you know, some of the teams that have made those moves like Colorado getting Ryan Lindgren, I think they're trying to get ahead of the market a little bit, right? Because they're worried about what it might be. I mean, even getting Gustav Nyquist, you know, for Minnesota, you know, part of that's just they like the player, obviously they have a history with them.

But it's also looking around going like, there's not a whole lot else out here right now. But I just wonder in these couple days when prices start to move, when some teams declare themselves sellers that really aren't yet, is there something that happens? And one thing I'll tell you from a conversation I had on Saturday with someone who works at a front office, he said, don't discount the fact that with the rising cap, that what that might mean in terms of teams being willing to take maybe some sort of risks that you haven't seen in the past, just because we got in a new period there where the cap was flat for so long. it felt like if you made a mistake on a player, like it was death, right? Because the cap doesn't go up. There's almost no way out of, there's no way to undo that mistake. Whereas now, I think with the cushion going up and up and up for the foreseeable future, maybe teams might roll the dice on guys with some term just because they're going to gamble that,

hey, it could work out. And if it doesn't, there's maybe some ways to bury that. It's not going to be felt as profoundly down the road. I think what would probably qualify is the holy crap of the deadline would be if Carolina opted. to move Miko Ranton after trading for him. I don't particularly think they should. I think you can justify the deal they made earlier,

even if he does walk because he's that good and they're that close to knocking on the door for a Stanley Cup. But I'm curious, what is the latest you're hearing on Rantanin and Carolina? It seems like that's maybe not too likely at this point, but I'll say this. It's not a no, right? Like Carolina is having active conversations with other teams

to see what ideas they have out there. I just think that the hurricanes haven't put themselves in a position here where they know, look, they know he's not going to sign by Friday as an extension, but they're not saying, okay, now we have to move him. I think they're just open to listening to what those other trades might look like. Now, I just don't think it's particularly likely they're going to get a player better than Martin Aitchis, who they gave up to get Miko Raton to begin with.

And, you know, it's not as though the hurricanes are looking to punt on this season. I mean, this is a team that's perpetually looking for a way to take some steps from where they've been and they've had a lot of relative success in recent memories. So, you know, I think that points to most likely he's rent and still a hurricane on Saturday. But, you know, there's still some unknown in what those, the next four or five days are going to bring for us here. And, you know, I do know teams are quite interested in the possibility of random, but it's hard to know because he's not saying, to my knowledge, where he would like to play, like

where he would sign an extension. I'm not sure his brain is fully got there yet, to be honest. I mean, obviously there's probably cities and places maybe that, that he's, that he's got in mind, but he didn't expect to be dealt from Colorado. Then you had this four nations break. Like I just think it's been such a whirlwind that that ran in probably wants to take a little bit of time.

And so, you know, all that kind of points me to him likely remaining in Carolina, but let's stay tuned and see if anyone does something silly and gives them, you know, something to think about. When I look at your trade board,

two of the names that stick out to me are Buffalo. It's Dylan Cousins and it's Bo Byram. These are guys who are still young players, high graphics, haven't quite reached their potential yet, but you can kind of squint and see it. If Buffalo moves these guys, what are they doing? Like, what is the future in Buffalo? I mean, they're just stuck, right? Like, are they going to tear it down yet again?

Or are they going to try to build around those two guys? Well, they're going to build around those guys. Or they're going to make a trade that brings in someone that they believe they can build around if that makes sense. Like, they're not looking to make any moves for straight futures the way that, say, Chicago was in their deal for Jones. You know, I think that the savers are very concerned about trading a distressed asset below its market value because they've done that a few times, right?

I mean, there's a list of former savers that have like immediately won a Stanley Cup somewhere else is concerningly long. Nightmare. Nightmare. Yeah. And so. Yeah. And, you know, Jack Eichel before.

And obviously, there's lots of different circumstances that led to the trades that I'm kind of winking at here. But I think that they're very afraid of doing. that again. And Dylan Cousins has not performed up to where he's been previously in his career, but he's 24, right? And he's a big centerman who has a lot of ability and has shown that it's not just potential with him. I mean, Bowen Briarum's actually having a decent season, but he's 23. He needs a new contract. He's restricted for agent this summer. You know, you can add Alex Tuck's name to the list. He's more of a veteran player. He's one year away, you know, next summer, 2026 is when he could be a

UFA, but I think that they've certainly started to take more calls on him. And I don't know where this line this winds up. I mean, the Sabres are clearly sellers at this deadline, but I think that they're, they're kind of cautious sellers because they don't want to make a bad decision. Because frankly, part of the reason they're on the precipice of 14 straight years without a playoff appearance is they've made a lot of bad decision. That's not all Kevin Adams. Some of that came in the management groups that came before him.

But I do think that there's a little hesitancy there about making a bad deal. And they're probably a place I didn't mention them when Max asked about teams to watch. I mean, that's a team that if they move one or more of those players, we're probably talking with some pretty significant deals between now and Friday. The great Chris Johnson, everybody, follow all of his stuff between now and Friday's deadline and to the NHL GMs listening. Let our man get some sleep, please. All right.

We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. All right, we are back and we are joined now by Peter Baugh from New York. And Peter, we were just talking with CJ about some of the teams that will make this deadline the most interesting. And a lot of the ones he mentioned are the ones who are not the so obvious sellers as like the sharks and the Blackhawks, but the team's a little bit more to the middle where they could kind of go either way. And I think the New York Rangers fit that. And I wonder, did they tip their hand a little bit about which direction this is going to go when they made the trade, dealing away Ryan Lindgren and Jimmy Vizi? Or is this just one move and they could make a counter move the other way where they're a little more of a buyer?

How do you see this going for the Rangers? Yeah, I think what's pretty clear is that if the Rangers are going to buy, it's not going to be for short-term pieces. This is not a year for rentals for them. They want to make the playoffs still. They'd like to make the playoffs, but they don't feel they're in a position to, I guess, trade away or to trade for pending UFAs. And they also want to trade away their pending UFAs that they think they're going to lose because they don't want to lose them for nothing over the summer just for one maybe playoff run on a, with a team that doesn't really have a great chance to make some noise. So I think you saw that yesterday, trading away Lingren and VC, but also getting back,

Usso Parson, who's a guy who's controllable, who they'll have for a while. You see that with getting Calvin DeHan to replace Lingran. It's not an upgrade. They obviously, Lingren was the more valuable piece in that trade, but DeHan is a replacement level NHL defenseman who can, I guess, eat some minutes and play. at the NHL level. So they kind of are trying to walk this fine line of not completely destroying their roster, but still getting rid of their pending UFAs so that they can get some picks back and then kind

reload in the offseason. And you also saw tonight Riley Smith was held out for roster management. He's presumably the next guy to go. So what are the Rangers right now? Are they basically saying, like, look, it's nice if we make a playoff run this year, but we're no longer thinking about this year. Do they still think that they can be, you know, an upper tier team next year?

Or is this like, it might take a year or two to reconfigure things like Boston had to do five, six years ago? Yeah, well, I don't think you make the J.T. Miller trade if you think it's going to take two or three years. I think they want to reload for next year. J.T. Miller's about to turn 32. Mika Zabanichette's 31. Vincent Chorchek's 31.

A lot of their key players are in their early 30s. So I think the idea is that you get J.T. Miller. This is a guy who has. as best as an 100 point a year guy who can be your top line center. Maybe that allows you to shift Sabanajad to the wing. You have Trochec. Now you have Parsons, all that with Fox and Shastirke in there. So I think the idea is that you're going to kind of try to reload for next year. Maybe use some of these draft picks you get to either boost the prospect pool or to trade away for players who can help you in the near future.

And then not totally close the door on this year, but essentially concede that this isn't a year to go all in at the deadline. So let me ask you, let me throw a name at you. If you're looking for young, youngish, good, controllable players, I'm going to throw a name. Elias Pedersen. I'm joking. I'm joking.

I thought you were, yeah. That was way too long of a pregnant pause right there. You didn't tip your hand. I thought you were being serious. I was like, well, not to pay the assets or if it would be the maybe best fit given previous trades. So no, I would not bet on Elias Pedersen making his way to New York, at least not the New York Great Years. I am curious about Keandre Miller because I think the profile there is one that would drum up quite a bit of interest for a young player RFA. obviously getting close to UFA, so there's that.

But if you trade for him, you can lock them up to a long-term deal. Do you sense an appetite for the Rangers to have that conversation? Or is that something you think they'd rather stay away from? I think it would be tough to trade Kianne Miller right now. This is a guy who a couple years ago had, I think, 43 points, almost all at even strength. And a guy who has all the tools in the world, a really promising player with a good skill set. he hasn't had the best year. He did score a goal tonight. That was a really pretty backhand. But he's still playing 21 minutes a night, close to 22 minutes, I think, actually. And like,

is a very useful player at the very least. So the other thing that the Rangers have to kind of reckon with is that on their left side of their defense, Miller is kind of the only controllable level piece. They have Erho Vakanin who they can choose to bring back as a restricted free agent. Different to you're a guy though. Yeah, exactly. Like he's maybe a bottom pair guy. Miller's a top four guy. So they need left shot defensemen.

So to me, it doesn't really sense to make sense to trade a guy while his values may be a little lower than it was a couple years ago and also leaves you with no one on your left side. So how do you handicap the Rangers chances now of making the playoffs? Let's talk about the here and now. You know, there are a couple of points that are right behind Columbus. and Detroit for those two wild card spots. They're in that big mess of seven or eight teams that think they're in there. We all know they've got Igor Shesterkin. They just made a defense that was one of the worst in league worse by trading Ryan Lindgren.

How do you handicap this team's playoff chances this year? Does this team get in in your mind? I'd put it around 50-50, maybe a little under 50% chance. I think Dom's kind of, I know you don't like the percentage models, Las, with the, I'm not a big predictive guy. Yeah, that's all. I like the numbers. I don't like the predictive numbers.

Yeah, you don't like the percent to win the cost. Yeah. But I think I would probably put it around, I don't know, like a little under 50 percent maybe. They've got a, I mean, I think if you look at, it's, what's interesting is if you look at Columbus's roster, I'm starting to just look at it and think that's a better team than the Rangers. Like, it's not just that the Rangers are underperforming what they have, but like the Blue Jack might have better players, at least for this year.

If you look at the way Werenski is playing, if you consider the fact that Adam Fox is out, if you look at kind of the jump Marchenko's taken, the young guys in Fantilli, the goaltending they got at least yesterday. So I think that you've got to, you look at them, you look at Ottawa, who has all the pieces and one of the weaker remaining schedules

in the NHL, whereas the Rangers have one of the hardest. And then there's the wings who have been one of the hottest teams, in the league since, I don't know, the last Max knows better than I when Christmas, yeah, since Christmas. So I think that they've, they're in the mix. They're obviously not trying to pick up rentals to push them over the top. Maybe they'll, they'll take a swing at a controllable player like they did with Parsons. But I, I think there's certainly a chance, but it doesn't feel like a team that's loading up that is going to be a true bona fide contender to me. make noise when the playoffs begin.

You talked earlier about kind of the reconfiguration and the timeline to do that with the ages of Miller, Trocheck, Zabanajad, Panarin. Are there any guys from this core, though, that we just think aren't going to be a part of that, whatever that reconfiguration looks like? I mean, Crider is the name everyone's going to think to right away. But I think there's a conversation to be had there about Zabanajad, and as much as Paneran is to one of their best players. He's getting up there in age.

I just wonder, like, how deep of a surgery do you think could happen here, whether it's now or in the offseason. Yeah, I mean, I think my guess is not a whole lot of giant core moves are going to happen before the deadline. Obviously, I could be proven drastically wrong, but if you look at Chris Kreider, he's on IR right now. If you're a contender, why are you trading for a guy who's having one of the worst seasons of his career and has had multiple different injuries this year? I think that's probably an offseason move if it happens. You mentioned is a Banishad. It's a guy who he's a guy who fans have been very mad at at points this year, but has played excellently really since the JT. Miller edition. He's played summit wing,

and that's gone well. And he's always a bit of a streaky player, but I think you're seeing now kind of that maybe there is a future for him on this team on the wing. I think trading him is really tough because he has a full no movement clause. So if he doesn't want to leave, unless the Rangers want to just make life really difficult on him and have a very toxic locker room and just like not play him or something. It's hard to force a guy out when he has a full no movement clause. And also the teams that Zabana Jed would maybe be open to going to, I would guess, are teams that aren't going to have a lot of cash space.

I think Panarin, he has one year left on his deal after this one. So maybe we'll see he has a full no movement clause as well. Maybe it'll be interesting to see if they, extend him if they try to resign him, especially given his age. But I think Kreider's probably of those core guys the most likely to move just because of his contract, kind of the direction this team has gone. And the fact that there maybe would be some interests in the off season, it's $6 million is a big number. But if the Rangers retain a little, maybe someone would bite on it. Well, it's pretty wild. When you look at the actual Rangers

roster, they can't really dramatically remake this team. Everyone has signed long terms. Zabanajad and Miller have six years left. Trochex got five years left. The Frenier's got eight years left. Fox has five years left. Borgans got six years left. Like the main chunk of the Rangers are going to be what they're going to be going for. But I do want to ask you about the avalanche side of this.

You know the avalanche well, obviously, having covered them previously. What are they getting at a Ryan Lindgren? Is he still what people think he is? Or is he kind of, you know, the way he plays is those kind of defensemen fall off a cliff at some point in their career? Is he nearing that cliff or is he going to bring something to the avalanche? Yeah, well, this is a bet by the avalanche that they can kind of get Ryan Lingard back to what he was a couple years ago. He's had a difficult year, but I think if you listened to, I listened to what Jared Bedinard said today about him. And he kind of mentioned that they think they can maybe deploy him in different ways that will maximize him more.

He's played a lot of difficult minutes with the Rangers this year. They use him against a lot of tough competition. And those results don't always go as well as maybe you'd want. you look at who he'd be playing with on the Avalanche. He's probably not going to be on the top pair with Gail McCar. They have a little more depth that they can kind of work him in at, can help on the penalty kill. He can bring a little bit of an edge and physicality that they like.

They've mentioned kind of in front of the net wanting a little more miff there. So I think that there's certainly a fit there. And I think VC is a good depth player. I think that this year the Rangers, there was a stretch when they started playing a little bit better in January that they moved away from him because they were winning with Matt Rempey in the lineup. So he kind of was the odd man out for a few weeks there. He was a healthy scratch. I think if he's in kind of a little more of a consistent role where he's penalty killing on the fourth line, he can chip in a goal here and there and he's someone who can help

a team or be a 13 forward if you're fully healthy and need to have him in the press box to start a playoff series. That's fine too. So I think this trade makes the avalanche better. I don't know if Parsonson was necessarily going to move the needle this year. You can look at the acquisition cost and see that it's a second round pick and a fourth round pick. And that certainly feels a little hefty. But at the end of the day, draft picks are kind of lottery tickets. And second round draft picks have value on the trade market. But a lot of times those players aren't panning out to be everyday NHLers.

Got, there's almost nothing I wouldn't trade a fourth rounder for, like whatever, fourth rounder get the hell out of my hands. Yeah, a second rounder maybe it stings a little, but you got two NHL players for it. So that's kind of the cost of doing business. One more thing I wanted to take your temperature on. There's been a lot of discourse around Adam Fox coming out of the Four Nations. And if it changed, you know, the way you look at him and things like that. And I'm curious how you've seen him respond coming out of that tournament. And, you know, he did struggle there.

How's he responded? And what's your take on all that on Fox? Well, he got hurt pretty instantly. So he's out for at least the next little bitty's on IR. I think the pendulum kind of swung just a little. It swung a little too far. Like Adam Fox didn't have a great tournament. This season, he hasn't been great.

A lot of that is because the forwards on the team haven't been great. Like he's been maybe a little worse than normal this year, but he's still been very good. He's still Adam Fox. He's still a really good player. I think that if you look at the U.S. roster for the Olympics, I feel like it's hard to envision a scenario in which he's not on it. He's such a good player.

And I know that maybe his role is a little more diminished. Maybe he even starts as a healthy scratch. But you'd have to think he's one of the eight American defensemen or however many they take to Italy. So I think the criticism to an extent was warranted. But I also think that the pendulum probably swung a little too far. Great stuff. As always, Peter. We're going to take a quick break right there.

We'll be right back. All right, we coaxed Peter and to staying on with us for the last segment. So he's going to stay with us here as we get into a little deeper dive into the Seth Jones trade, Las. And let's start with your reaction here because you're the closest to it being in Chicago. Obviously, it's a win for Seth Jones getting to a contender. The Blackhawks, though, I thought, did quite well here in getting Spencer Knight, who's still, you know, for everything he's gone through, still a great young goaltender. And then I almost like that pick better if it does bump to 2027, just with the mystery of never known what

happen if a contender starts to stall out, right? Yeah, I mean, Kyle Davidson, to have turned this trade around in basically nine days, he did as well as he could have. Like the Blackhawks are demonstrably worse today than they were two days ago because they took away their leading ice time guy in Seth Jones, a good player. Seth Jones, I feel like, I have to keep pointing this out. Seth Jones is a good hockey player. He was overpaid, but he is a good hockey player.

So the Hawks are worse now and it's going to get a little ugly. And that, I mean, let's face it, that 2027 pick might not be in the league until 2030, 2031. Like, that's a million years from now. Like, that is not a thing I, even on the radar. So, but just to get 2.5 million as the, the only amount that he had to retain is, is a win. Because that $9.5 million was not hampering the Blackhawks now in any way, and it wasn't for a couple of years. But by the end of this deal, they were going to have to trade Seth Jones. When things got real, they were going to have to trade Seth Jones.

So to do it now, probably earlier than they wanted to, frankly, but they're happy to get them off the books. And Jones gets to go to a team where he's going to go and try to win a cup. And here's the thing about Seth Jones. We've said this a lot in Chicago. He's getting paid like a number one. He is not a number one. He is a good number two.

He is a great number three. And guess what he's going to be in Florida? He's going to be their number three defensemen. He's only going to get to $7 million. Yeah, next year. Yeah, exactly. He might step up to that two spot next year if F, Vlad leaves. But he's only getting paid $7 million.

He's a $7 million cap hit for Florida. This is a great pickup for Florida. I don't think people realize how good Seth Jones is going to look playing for an actual real-life hockey team that can play hockey. He's going to do very well there, and he's going to be a good value for the next few years. I was debating this with somebody last week of like, what would Seth Jones get on the open market right now?

And I think the number is somewhere in the $6 to $7 million range, probably is seven with the cap going up. Yeah. So if you're Florida, you basically just get him on the five times seven that you would have had to pay him in free agency. But in order to do that, you had to get the retention. I think that's where a big chunk of this return comes in is that you're basically eating $12.5 million for Chicago.

Some of this is for Seth Jones, the player, but I think a pretty big reason the returns as good as it was is what it means to retain $12.5 million, even over five years. Right. And the Blackhawks can do that, right? Like, they're not spending to the cap anytime soon. They're at least two, three years away from spending to the cap. that $2.5 million is not going to prevent them from throwing $15 million at Mitch Marner or Miko Ranthin in this summer, right? Like they can still easily do that, especially with the way the cap's going up. The Hawks, if anything, they had to work this trade and get Spencer Knight, not just because they needed a goalie.

They needed that $4.5 million. They got to get to the cap floor next year. And they're going to probably have to buy out Peter Morazic. I don't know what they're going to do with Laurent Brousal, but they got four NHL goalies right now because the best goalie of the four is Arviz Soderbloom, who's been really good this year. and he's a pending RFA. You got him better than Knight? This year he has been. Sotomay has been really good this year.

He was like the worst goalie in the history of hockey last year. And he was like, they were writing him off. And then Laurent Brasois, they sign him in the summer. He gets hurt, hasn't played all year. So Soder Bloom has to play. And he's been light years better than Peter Morazek the last few months. He's been excellent behind a truly awful defense. So they got to figure out how to make this work.

They want Soder Bloom in Knight to be 1A and 1B for the next however many years. So they got to figure out how to figure out how to, getting morassick out, probably a buyout, and they're going to have to figure out a way to make Laurent Broussou disappear. Yeah, I think the night piece is a really good add to the deal. And I think that what you said about them eating salary, it's okay if they eat two point whatever for the next five years, but you don't want to be eating five million for the next few years. Like, I don't think eating half of Seth Jones's contract made sense for them. This is kind of walking the balance of like, even if you're spending.

to the cap a few years from now, it's still only $2 million with a raised salary cap. You can live with that. That's what's impressive about the trade for me from Davidson's standpoint is I thought this was going to certainly drag into the summer, possibly dragging into next year, because Jones wanted out, but the Hawks

had no need to get him out, right? And I thought that anyone who was going to take him was going to want them to retain half. And there was no way that Kyle Davidson was going to retain half. So for him to find a taker to get only 25%, and to get actual like tangible asset in the deal. It's a tidy bit of work by Davidson. Yeah. And I think the assets that go back to

Chicago are because of the retention. Like I don't know if it's as much for Jones the player as for the retaining. But I think for Florida, too, I look at this as a kind of probably an acknowledgement that Eckblad is going to be priced out after this year. And now you just kind of have his replacement right there. Or maybe they do some shenanigans and bring Eckblad back. but they're going to have to pay someone to play second line center. They're going to have some needs to fill this summer. But it gives them an awesome chance to repeat, at least as Eastern Conference champions, because that decor is really good.

If Kachuk comes back, they're loaded at forward, and they have the goaltending. Here's what fascinates me with Knight is that, you know, we'd have to bring probably Scott or Corey into tell me if I'm right or wrong on this. But my feeling has been that he's been the best regarded goalie prospect we've had in the last seven, eight years in the sport of hockey. He's come up until a scarab probably. I think a scarov is kind of usurp that role. But yes, for a while.

I think similar. I think at least on par, the two of them would be probably together, right? It's those two certainly. I feel like in Knight's drafture, people really love Knight, but we'd have to have Stoner Corey on to say, for all the adversity, Knights had, he's never had a safe percentage below 900 in the NHL. And yet it's been in Florida. And now we're going to see him on such a different team.

And I am fascinated to see how he responds. In theory, he should get a whole lot of. more opportunity, but he's going to have a whole lot less in front of him. And that to me is, you know, it's not to say night makes or breaks the trade, but maybe it is a little bit to say night makes or breaks the trade because I think if he's a good like nine, 10 goalie and 40 starts, this is a nominal deal for Chicago. Well, that's what makes trades like this so hard to evaluate when you're dealing with a great team and a terrible team. Because like Seth Jones, if you just look at the little player card that someone tweets out after a trade, he's going to

look bad. His numbers are horrible. He's on a terrible defensive team. His team. His teammates aren't very good. The forwards don't play enough defense. He's in a bad system. And if you look at like, you know, Spencer Knight is going to come over to Chicago and he's going to play a lot. And his numbers probably won't be as good as they were in Florida. But if you watch him every night, you'll be like, wow, this guy is actually like hanging in because it's a shooting gallery back there. That's what I mean about Soder Bloom. Like Soder Bloom's numbers might be kind of middling, but to be middling behind that Chicago team is exceptional. And that's what Peter Marasick was last year and is not this year.

He's been like an 890 goaling now. So it's really tough to evaluate these plays, these players, because it's a lot different playing for the Florida Panthers than it is for the Chicago Blackhawks. There's just no two ways around it. I mean, I look back to the bubble, and I know that's four or five years ago now, but like Seth Jones played like 30 minutes. Remember that he played an hour?

I think you played a full 60 minutes in that one game. Was it against Tampa? Oh, that multi-overtime game, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I will never forget that just thinking like what an absolute horse this guy is. I know it's different to do that at 25, 26 and it is to do it at 30, 31, 32. But that has always stuck with me.

Obviously, the guy who's trading for him is Bill Zito, who's going to know him as well as anybody from his time in Columbus. That, I'm sure, plays a role. I'm with you, Las, on Seth Jones. I think I would be thrilled to have him as the leader of my second defense pair. And I'd be pretty content to have him as the steadier guy. And granted, if he's with Gustav Forzling, there's nobody. steadier than Gustav Forsling. But he's got offense too. People act like Seth

Jones is a one-dimensional guy. Look at his production. I know he's had incredible opportunity to do it in Chicago, but this is not just a one-dimensional defense. He is still a do-it-all type. Well, that's the thing. If there's a knock on Jones' game, he is not as quick as he used to be and he is vulnerable against the rush.

And when you play for the Blackhawks, there's a lot of transition offense coming back on you. That's when he looks bad. He can get burned. But he's still six, four, he's a smooth skater. He can move the puck. He's got terrific offensive instincts. He always knows when to pinch. He's got a big shot. He can run a power play. If you put him with a Gustav forsling, he is going to be excellent, just absolutely excellent. And he's good enough. Both of them are good enough probably that if the Panthers, even if Act Vlad leaves next year, if they want to

split them up and have Forzling with someone else and then Jones kind of running the second player, you kind of can divide and conquer a little. Going to be fascinating to watch it play out. That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. Please, if you're enjoying the show, leave us a rating and a review, preferably five stars. Everybody's favorite, Sean, and also the other one are going to be joined by Frankie Corrado on Wednesday. We'll talk to you soon.