The Athletic Hockey Show - Will the Stanley Cup Final put Connor McDavid on the map in the US?

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

On today’s Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian and guest cohost Sean McIndoe discuss the Stanley Cup Final schedule, the misnomer that all Canadians are going to root for the Oilers, how Flames fans must feel watching the Panthers’ success, how Leafs fans feel about Zach Hyman’s success, historic 50-goal scorers in the Final, and whether No. 97 can join No. 99 and No. 66 as the only players in playoff history to record 40 points. Plus, The Athletic’s NHL insider Chris Johnston joins the show to talk about whether Connor McDavid can become a US star now that he’s on the sport’s biggest stage, Zach Hyman as maybe the best free agent signing in the salary cap era, Sam Reinhart’s impending UFA status, and more, and The Athletic’s own Jesse Granger talks to the guys about the 2024 USA Hockey National Goaltending Symposium, if Sergei Bobrovsky is a Hall of Famer if he wins the Cup, the latest Stanley Cup odds, and more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. All right, welcome back to it, everybody. It is your Monday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. As always, Ian Mendez here with you to kick off the week. Mark Lazarus, we just assume he's stuck in an airport somewhere. And that's why we got Sean McIndoo, jumping in. Because we know Laz is stuck somewhere. He's on the tarmac somewhere, just driving around an airport,

being led to believe that he's going to take off and then not doing it. Yeah, and he'll tweet, he'll tweet about that and the Mets and all the things that we tell you don't tweet about. That's last. That's him. So he'll be back next week on the Monday pod. Sean, of course, host the Wednesday pod with Gentile, Frank Corrado jumps by. So I guess you're doing double duty this week. I am.

Yeah, so I don't know. I'm going to use all the good material here. Yeah. Or just test you out. Yeah, exactly. I'm just going to say, well, no, honestly, what I'm going to do here is something that I, I've learned to do in recent years. I'm going to pick one of the two teams,

Eminton or Florida, and I'm going to spend this entire show talking about how they're going to win. And then on Wednesday, I'm just going to do the opposite. And I'm going to assume that, you know, anyone who listens to both can just

handle the cognitive dissonance and anyone else, I'll be able to point back and go, guys, I called all this on the pod. Which pot? The pot. The pot. The athletic hockey show.

You know, that one. Yeah. Oh, man. And, you know, it's funny because when you roll around the Wednesday's podcast, with Gentile. It's not like you're going to have a game to sink your teeth into.

It's not like you're going to have, we have a basically, this is almost like the week off in the Super Bowl where you kind of have a full week. But we're not used to this in hockey. We're not used to six days. Except we kind of are when it comes to, because the league does this. And look, I get that they released the schedule. when both the series were still three, two. So, you know, there was, they had to account for the possibility of a game seven.

You can't say we're going to start the final on Wednesday, and then, oops, there's a game seven on Tuesday. Obviously, that's unworkable. So, ideally, they would have just waited, and then, you know, and you see both the series end in six, you can get ready to go. But it's the Stanley Cup final. it's not a typical series. There's stuff as far as just, you know,

not even having the buildings, but just getting everything ready and more meaty and all that. I guess I'm sympathetic. But geez, it's a lot. I'm excited for this series and yet got a long, long wait, got to pace myself.

Yeah. And again, game one goes on Saturday. And then because of the travel that's sort of built into the series, you're going to get two days off every time that there's change in venue. So when they go from, you know, Florida to Edmonton and vice versa, two days off.

So this could be drawn out. Could get to June 24th. Way too long. It's way too long for the series. It's way too long for the season. I know this is the part where every NBA fan puts their hand up and goes, you want to hear about how drawn out the playoffs can be. And yeah, I get that.

But, oh, this is like June. I mean, even putting aside, hey it's you know we always say this time of here it's nice out people don't want to be watching hockey they want to be out the you know grill and burgers and uh you know hanging out at the cottage even putting that aside the draft is like on the 28th you yep i i mean it's such a condensed free agency is july first it's such a weird thing to have this drawn out nine month season and then like three days and then it's like now the off season's here and you're you're right into it it's the scheduling is just weird I know the American teams don't like having a lot of games

in October let alone actually moving it to September but at some point man we got to figure this out a little bit better because it's just it's too much I I want to take a moment here on the the rare moment in the podcast we're two kidding guys are hosting at the same time. Because usually I'm with Las or you're with Gentilly and there's a U.S. Canada thing. But can we just take a moment to clear something up for everybody, especially our listeners in the United States and elsewhere? This idea that all of Canada is now rooting or cheering or pulling for the Oilers.

Can we just take a minute to address that here? I mean, the pizza company told me that it's my duty that I have to. No, it's, man, we've, we've been over this. I went back four years ago. I had a debate with Myrtle where we went back and forth on this whole issue. There is no Canada's team. There is a team Canada, and they play in the Olympics and the World Cup or Four Nations or whatever else. And all of Canada will get behind that team.

that has a red maple leaf on the jersey, underlined red. Other than that, no. Like, I mean, we've got the drought. We all know about it 31 years. And yeah, I mean, there's a lot of fans up here who would like to see the drought end. There's also a lot of fans who want to see the drought end by their team only, period. That's it.

I'm a Leafs fan. I want the Leafs to be the team to end the drought. I don't want the Oilers to get those bragging rights. And, you know, same if I'm in Vancouver, whatever. whatever, go on down the list. I think there is an element of it that has some truth for the very casual fans. And maybe even fans is the wrong word. Just the, believe it or not, yes, there are Canadians who don't follow the NHL and who aren't big hockey fans.

And, you know, I always use the, you know, will my mom notice that this is happening? And yes, she will probably text me at some point this week saying, oh, yeah, there's a Canadian team in the final. That's good. But beyond that, like the diehard fans, this idea that there's some Calgary Flames fan out there who's like, you know what, for my country, I'll root for the Oilers. That person does not exist, I promise you. Okay. Let's talk about Calgary for a second because, I mean, one of your kind of niches as a reporter is the tortured fan base niche, right? Like, we could agree on that.

That's kind of your laneway. And so I was thinking about this as a Calgary fan. How are you going to approach the next two and a half three weeks? Because you have one team in the Edmonton Oilers who has historically always been your most bitter hated rival. So you're not going to cheer for them. But the team that they're playing against, the Florida Panthers, you look at their roster, you're like, damn, they got Matt Kichuk and Sam Bennett, who were, you know, top picks for us. And now they're flourishing there.

So you're like, ah, man, I'm not going to cheer for either. of those teams, this is going to be tough. But then I was thinking for a second, wait a minute, what about Buffalo Sabres fans? How are they feeling about the Cup final? Because on one hand, you have Edmonton. If you remember, in that 14-15 season, Buffalo Capital T tank finished dead last.

Statistically had the best odds of landing McDavid. Edmonton had the third worst record, I believe, that year. And they, the ping pong balls came up for them. So if you're Buffalo, you're like, that could have been us. That should have been us. And then you look at, okay, well, I'll just cheer up for the Panthers. Wait a minute.

Get Sam Reinhart, Adacozzo, and Montour. Like, which of these fan bases is feeling more tortured? Is it Calgary or Buffalo? It's, you know what? It's a perfect time to ask because I'm literally today, I took a break to do this show. I am writing my annual rooting guide to the final, where I take the two teams that are in the Stanley Cup final, and I go through every other team.

And I'm like, hey, if you're undecided, if you're still on the fence, let me see if I can nudge you one direction or the other and say that this is, this is why. And those are the two toughest calls is Calgary and Buffalo. Now, I'll say this. When it comes to Buffalo, I have another piece that I like to do every year where I, I've invented an award. I call it the cons smite.

Not the cons smite, con, C-O-N-N-E-D. And this award goes to whatever team made the, dumbest trade with the Stanley Cup champion that most contributed to that team winning the championship. And Calgary and Buffalo were at the top of the list. I wrote last week. I said, here's how the race is shaping up. And those were the two teams far and away in a tier of their own. Buffalo, you've got Kyle Okposo.

Look, you're rooting for him if you're a savior. There's no reason not to. Guy gave everything he could to your team, everything he's overcome. He's a classic old guy without a cup. You're rooting for him. I don't, you know, and we should say they basically gave him those Florida Panthers. This wasn't the situation where it was a typical deadline. They just said, we will send you wherever you want to go to go chase a cup.

And so it worked out. Great. Brandon Montour, good player, disappointing trade. I'm not sure he's the level of star that he's really going to influence you one way or another. The big one is Sam Reiner. And, you know, he did one of those things that drives NHL fans crazy, which is he was at a certain level with one team and then he moves to another team and he finds a new level. And you're sitting there going, man, where were those 57 goals for us? I will say, they traded him a couple years ago.

They got a first round pick and they got Devin Lepp. Who is their goalie of the future. When I mentioned that in the consmite, the feedback I got from Sabres fans is, hey, we'd still do that trade again. Or at the very least, we don't look at that as some terrible trade. This isn't something, again, based on the feedback I got where Sabres fans are going, we screwed up, we gave away a superstar. You know, this guy, it's more of a feeling of, hey, it wasn't working in Buffalo. We weren't going to get the 57 goal version. we got a real nice package of futures for him.

I don't know if it's okay, we wish him the best, we'll root for him, but I don't sense that level of bitterness that you sometimes get from Sabres fans. Now, that takes us to Calvert. And I got to say,

boy, you're right. I mean, the Oilers, total non-star. No, no Flames fan. He's ever going to cheer for the empty of them.

You can. can't. You just absolutely can't. Turn in your badge if you're going to if you're going to do that. You're not coming back to the flames bandwagon. But that haven't been said for the second year in a row, we are going to spend the next few weeks hearing everybody sing the praises of Matthew Kachuk. Playoff warrior personality, face of the league. Yep. Superstar. And boy, if I'm a flames fan, this drives me crazy. Because I will tell you, it kind of, of bugs me that I feel like we've gone way too far in this league with booing guys who come back where it's like, you know, he left as a free agent. Yeah, he got traded. Like players move around.

This is, you know, you don't have to hold a grudge against every player where, you know, they move on. But Matthew Kuchuk quit on this team. Matthew Kuchick said, I don't want to be a Calgary Flame anymore. I'm not going to be, get me out of here. That's what happened. And, you know, we, yes, it's a great story. great fit in Florida and we were all looking for a superstar with personality that we get, but he quit on the Calgary Flames. And by the way, he quit on the Flames after a few years where he was no good in the playoffs. Mr. Playoff Warrior, Mr. Guy you can win with was a total bust for the flames in the playoff. This guy, you look at his numbers for the, you know, I think there was four four playoff runs that he had with the flames. You look at his numbers. This dude made Mitch

Martin look like Justin Williams. And yet then he goes to Florida and suddenly, you know, the light goes on. And, you know, he forces his way out. He gives the flames a small handful of teams and says, these are the only places I'll go. Calgary ends up making a trade that at the time we thought they had done really well, but that they now regret mainly because of the contracts they handed out in the aftermath of it. There's still, I mean, you could argue, honestly, you could make a decent argument. The flames would have been better off if Matt Chukukkah could just walk for nothing rather than having 10

million dollars of Jonathan Huberto for years and years to come. Put them in a tough situation and then immediately does the, you know, the sign of trade, signs a nice discounted contract with the Panthers. So, I mean, very clearly choosing some other team, some other market saying, get me out of Calgary. It's cold. It's Canadian. I don't like it here. Send me to the Florida Panthers.

I'll go sign a nice cheap deal and, uh, and, and suddenly become that, that star player. the level of bitterness that I think Flames fans are justified to have, especially listening to us all blow smoke up this guy's behind for the next few weeks about what a warrior he is. It's got to drive him crazy. Sam Bennett kind of like the discount off-brand version of that whole story as well. But, I mean, Kachuk, it would just drive me nuts. You're going to either see Matthew Kachuk lifting the Stanley Cup while everyone goes,

wow, what a warrior, or it's the Edmonton Oilers. Like, who do you possibly pick to cheer for here? Or do you just go live in a bunker for three weeks? Exactly. I think I agree with you. I think Calgary fans are going to feel more tortured watching this. Just to follow up on your point, Matthew Kachuk, seven goals in 27 playoff games with Calgary.

Yeah. 16 playoff goals in 37 games. He said that many overtime goals with the Florida Panthers. And I want to say it was like 15 points and 20, like, I and I'm generally somebody who is you know I'm very pro player when it comes to moving around and signing contracts like get your money use your leverage you know use whatever leverage you have and that's what he did he he did what very very few NHL players ever did every NHL player they just go oh my stuff's already here they signed that whatever contract gets put in front of them for eight years and then you know years later you're sitting there going you're oh well What a great contract you have, which actually means, wow, you just left millions of dollars on the table that you could have had. Matthew Kuchuk did do that. I'm not even really knocking Matthew Kuchuk for what he did.

I'm just saying the team he did it to has every right to be absolutely furious about this. They have every, like, if you're a Flames fan, you've got every reason to just be beside yourself at all of this. You know, and again, I keep coming back to it, but especially where, you know, the coverage of Matthew Kachuk is never like, hey, this villain has gone. No, it's like, what a great guy. What a fun guy. And here he's in the Tim Horton's commercials. And, you know, isn't he just a wacky character? I, man, if I was a flames fan, I would just be banging my head on against the wall because it would drive me nuts.

Matt Kachuk, the seven playoff goals with Calgary, I just double checked. I looked it up. He's got six game winning goals with Florida. So almost the same amount of game winners as he had just goals total with Calgary. And he never scored a game winning goal with the flames in the playoffs. By the looks of it here. Absolutely. Drive me nuts.

And Sam Bennett too. I mean, what did they get for Sam Best? Second round pick. Yeah. It's not like Bennett like has become like a 100 point guy. No, but he's the perfect kind of that agitator,

tough sandpapery guy that you need to win in the playoffs. He's perfect. He's perfect in that role. Now picture him in a Flames jersey doing that. Do you have any memories of Calgary Flames playoff? No. No.

I'd be, man, I don't know what I'm going to do with them in the rooting guide. No. I have never in the history, I've been doing this for years and years. I've never given a team a pass. I've always, always, always picked a team. I don't know what I'm going to do here because I, I, this is, I, to me, this is the worst matchup I have ever seen for a particular fan base. Yes.

Like all the time you see a fan base where it's like, you hate one of those teams. Great. Fear against them. Laugh when they lose. You know, get the, oh, look, there's Brad Marchand's crying on the bench. This is great. Freeze frame that and, you know, that's, but to have both of them, oh, this is, it's brutal. It is.

It's a, it's a dog. the worst possible matchup for Calgary fans. Hey, we're talking about Sam Reinhardt and 57 goals season. And I was looking this up because I thought, okay, you got Reinhard who scored 50 with Florida. You have Heimann who scored 50 with Edmonton. I was like, wow, when's the last time a guy scored 50 and his team won the cup? And my automatic answer, my mind was, oh, yeah, Ovechkin. He would have done it with the Capitals.

So I looked it up. He had 49. The year that Washington won the Cup in 2018, OV had 49. So I thought, okay, well, then it can't be that far back. Maybe Crosby, maybe Malkin. I'm going back, back, back, back, back. 2001. That's wild.

Is that not wild, dude? Joe Sackick, 50 goals with the abs in 01. That's the last time a guy scored 50 and won the cup. Surprising? Absolutely. Yeah, that's shocking to me. I if I had to mentally go back my own head, you're right. Like one of the Pittsburgh guys, you would have had to have thought, you know, you go down the list.

You would think there'd be somebody in there. You know, Ovechkin, hey, obviously that's why they won the Cup because that year he put a team ahead of the interview. He wasn't chasing individual numbers. He scored 49 instead of 50 and that's why they won. But the other one that blew me away was even guys making the. the final with 50. Yes. Because that was the other piece that you looked up.

And even that is incredibly rare. Yeah. So the last time, so last time a guy scored 50 and 1 was Sackick, then I thought to myself, okay, when's the last time a guy scored 50 and lost in the final? And it's Peter Bondra in 1998. That's wild.

There's no way anybody would get that, right? Did the senators not have a 50 goal guy? Was that not one of Heatley's 50 goal years in 2007? Oh, geez. You know what? And look at me, Senator Guy. I might have overlooked Danny Heatley. Maybe I blocked that up.

Nobody remembers the, you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. It was Heatley in 2007. Two Ottawa Senator legends, Danny Heatley and Peter Bondra. But even then, like that's, it's a while. And then that leads to the question that I'm sure listeners have that I had when you sent me this.

what was the last time that each team had a 50 goal score in the Stanley Cup final. And this blew me away, how far back we have to go. Yeah, because I would have figured, like, I thought, again, at some point there, we would have had it, or even I thought, okay, Red Wings and Flyers like John LeClair and, you know, whatever, Shanahan or stuff, nope. And because go back in the 80s, it was pretty common, you know, like Tim Kerr and the Flyers would face the Oilers or the Oilers Islanders. And then even early 90s, I looked this up. Chicago Pittsburgh had Kevin Stevens, Jeremy Roanick.

It just, it was, it was normal. It was like, oh, yeah, you guys scored 50. You're in. 94, 1994, although now that I got the Heatley thing wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong on this. 94, Pauvel Burray, Adam Graves, is the last time, each team in the Stanley Cup final had a 50 goals score from the regular season. I feel like a lot of fans, you could even give them the year in the matchup

and say who were the two 50 goals scorers, and they'd probably go Bray-Messier. But no, that was the Adam Graves year. Right. How about this? 1994, that was the year that Canadian Cup drought started. And now here we are. We've got the matchup again, 50 versus 50. this could be the year it ends.

Maybe that's the key. Maybe that's the book in. You need two 50 goal scores. Yeah. And it was, it wasn't our country. It wasn't, you know, national pride. It was the dead puck era was what kept us from winning cups. It's my theory and I'm sticking with it.

But it is kind of crazy because, you know, Crosby is a 50 goal guy. Malkin has had a 50 goal season. Ovechkin, Miko, Rantedin. Like all these guys that, it kind of won cups around their 50 goals seasons, but never in the 50 goal season, right? And you just know somebody somewhere is connecting those dots. Stamp goes.

You can't win with a guy who doesn't, who scores 50 goals, those gloryhounds. You know, we're looking at this. I'm curious too, because we're talking about Calgary fans feeling bitter. Like, and I'm not trying to stir up anything here. I'm legitimately asking. But like, how do Toronto fans feel about Hyman becoming this sort of, you kind of elevate, like he wasn't this in Toronto.

And he probably wouldn't have been this in Toronto. But he's now a 50 goal playoff performing kind of guy. Like, like how are Toronto fans feeling about Zach Hyman? And to a much lesser extent, Connor Brown. But certainly Zach Hyman in the Stanley Cup. Yeah. I don't sense that there's a bitterness towards Zach Hyman. I really feel like the typical leaf fan view is this guy kind of came out of nowhere.

Remember, when they traded for him, he was not considered a prospect at all, showed up, kind of made a third and fourth line impact and worked his way up. It's sort of a feeling like this guy did everything that was asked of him. And then he got to free agency and he went out and he got that big contract somewhere that the Leafs, you know, didn't give them and, you know, maybe, maybe wouldn't have given them even if they could have. Where you will get some frustration from Leaf fans is I do think a lot of them look at this and they go, Zach Hyman was a local kid, probably would have loved to stay in Toronto. Loved being a Maple Leaf. Probably would have loved to stay there.

But they couldn't afford them. They were capped out. And that's kind of the situation where as much as, like I said, I'm pro player, get your money, squeeze the teams. but this is one where you have to look at Matthews, Martin Nylander and go if they'd each taken a million bucks less, Zach Hyman's probably still a Toronto Maple. They probably figure out a way to work that out. And then, you know,

whether he's a 50-goal guy or something else, you know, obviously, as much top-end talent as the Leafs have, they don't have anyone close to Connor McDavid because nobody does. But that's, if there's a bad feeling, it's aimed more at those high-priced players and going like, This is the cost of squeezing every dollar out of your contract. And we always hear about, well, if you leave money for, you know, and look, most of the time players leave money on the table and their team just

waste it on, you know, somebody who's nowhere near their level. That's the feeling. But, you know, as far as, hey, the Leafs are capped out. Zach, you did everything you could for the Leafs. Go get that money somewhere else. Go succeed somewhere else. the guy was in an era for the Leafs where there's dozens and dozens of players that fans want to point it and go didn't get the effort level. Zach Heiman was never an effort level thing.

So you know what? You wish him the best, I think. You know, we'll talk to Chris Johnston here in a second about McDavid and kind of putting him on the map in the U.S., all that. I want to ask you real quick, McDavid enters the cup final, Sean, with 31 points. and I don't think it's inconceivable that he gets nine points over the course of a Best of Seven series that would take him to 40 points. And when you look at the history of the NHL,

there's only two guys have ever gotten to 40 points in a single playoff year. No surprise, it's Gretzky, it's Lemieux. I mean, to do it now in this era, I mean, I guess my point is if he wins the cup, he gets the 40 points, is he is he mount rushmore is he like okay yeah welcome to the club and maybe mount rushmore's too small because there's sid and there's or and there's gradskey there's lemieux there's some people

talk about how so maybe it's best five but is he in there now firmly he's tracking he's tracking he's tracking ahead of crosbie i'll say that and crosbie i think at this point has cemented himself as if he retires tomorrow he's top five all time It's going to be that, you know, Gretzky Lemieux, two-headed monster, Bobby, or I think most people still consider there. And then most people, Gordy Howe is in there. Crosby's right there with Howe, as far as the all-time grades. McDavid is tracking ahead of him and maybe even far ahead of him. He's already got one more MVP than Crosby has ever won the numbers he's put up, what have you.

Doesn't have the cup yet. And obviously with Sid, he's got three of them. but could be about to see that. Yeah, no, I think as far as great players, it is very possible that by the end of his career, that Connor McDavid is in the Gretzky-Lamieu discussion. You know, not as far as the numbers necessarily. You know, no one's going to get to 2,800 points again, you can't imagine.

Obviously, we would have said that about the 800 and something goals as well, but that just doesn't feel possible. But relative to his era, I think this is a dominant player. And we might get into that discussion where you sit there and go, Gretzky had better numbers, no question, but skill-wise, you know, when you look at the level of competition, the level of skill in the league, is Connor McDavid the best ever, period? It's going to be a conversation because this guy is just absolutely doing things.

that, you know, literally does things sometimes that we've never seen before, where you go, that's not supposed to be possible. And he's, if you're one of those fans who loves the narratives and check the boxes of this guy's a winner, this guy is clutch, this guy's whatever else, hey, Connor McDavid is absolutely laying his case out in front of you that he's, he's one of the greats in that area, too. All right, Sean, tell you what, why don't we bring in our insider as we do on the Monday edition of the pod. Let's say hello to Chris Johnston joining us here on this Monday. CJ, how are you, my friend? I'm doing well. We're into June. The end is in sight.

It's almost summer, boys. Barely in sight. Still got three weeks to go, man. Game seven, it's three weeks. A lot of flights to go if that's going to be a long series. Oh, boy, I do not envy you guys who have to do this, especially after like, the Lazarus Chronicles. Like, I don't, all of you trying to get down to Dallas. I mean, this is, good luck. Good luck, all of you.

We'll be watching from our couches. I'm blessed to have short legs, so I don't, I can fit in the airplane seats nicely, and I usually sleep, so it's not that big a deal. Well, I saw, like, geographically speaking, this is the furthest distance ever, right, between two finalists and the Stanley Cup. And that, and that's why. I think it was in all of sports. actually like in North American sports. Yeah, which I guess I mean, that would make sense.

Like yeah, northern Alberta town against southern Florida. And I guess that's why C.J, maybe you can just kind of explain to the listeners why, like when people say, why is this series so drawn out? That's kind of part of it, isn't it? Yeah, I think people are conflating a couple things. So for the last few years, this is the non-COVID division when there's been travel in the cup final. there was two games always, sorry, two days off days when there's travel. And I think it's for this possibility entirely. And I remember we had that in the Pittsburgh San Jose series was quite a bit of travel. Like there was no real direct flight situations, kind of like eight, 10 hour travel days.

You know, it's just, it's really, obviously it's for the players first and foremost, but there's a practical standpoint with the TV people, the crew, the media, everyone who's going between the series just to do it. Now, the second issue is game seven could be June 24th, and that's a product of the season starting later. So, you know, basically what I'm saying is the cup final usually does stretch over 17, 18 days if it goes seven games. But, you know, this year could end even later and we're not even started yet here in early June because the U.S. TV networks push the season back a week from where it normally starts. Yeah. And if you want to blame the networks, that's where the blame is.

it's not about them wanting certain nights. And it's not about the NHL getting bumped out of arenas for, you know, because there's a concert or a monster truck rally or whatever. I've seen lots of that floating around. It is the travel situation. But I got to say, like, just purely as a fan, man, does this sever?

Between this and in this week-long gap, it saps a lot of the momentum out of what should be like a real, like, I mean, as soon as that matchup was said, I'm like, let's go. I want to see these two teams go tomorrow. And instead we got the full, full week. Just going to sit around to all our thumbs. We're all from the era where it used to literally just be every other night.

It was like Eastern Conference games one night, Western Conference the next night, every other night until the thing was handed out. And from a fan standpoint, that's awesome. Now there's all sorts of logistical issues and TV's taking on a bigger say and all this sort of thing. But that really was the best as a fan. No, absolutely. Well, you know what, we're talking about U.S. television. And I'm wondering, CJ and even Sean, too, like, do you guys feel like, okay, so now

McDavid's on the big stage? And we've talked about the problem of when your best player plays in kind of a small market in Canada that it's hard to market him. So do you guys feel like, okay, here we go. This is the chance to put McDavid on the map, US Network TV here over the next couple of weeks. I'm buying that. I mean, I think even the goal he scored in game six against Dallas, like things like that are going to give him an elevated status.

You know, obviously TNT's giving these games a big treatment, ESPN will be focused on it. I mean, if you're if you're talking about, you're just talking about Edmonton as a U.S. broadcaster, so you're covering it kind of from a national 10,000 feet view. I mean, what else are you going to talk about? I mean, obviously dry siddle and there's other great players on the team. but, I mean, it's going to be all Connor all the time. And, you know, when I think of it too in sort of his sporting legacy, you know, every top 10 score other than Marcel Dion in NHL history has a Stanley Cup.

You know, even if you go to the top 20, I think it's maybe only two or three don't. But, you know, even though it's the ultimate sort of team game and it's celebrated around that, basically the best of the best ever all find a way somehow to be on a cup winner. And, you know, it feels like this is the time for Connor to seize hold of that and do that. And so if he does that, he's going to, you know, look, the guy's walking the hall fame no matter what happens the rest of the way in his career. But, you know, this can be something that elevates him even further up kind of the all-time greats. And it's something that every resume, you know, you would want to have on it. Yeah.

And I think the answer is it's kind of up to the league and the TV guys. I mean, that's really a lot of this is, you know, how much does ESPN put behind this? And, you know, they drive so much of the conversation of sports in the United States. Because, you know, you got to say, yeah, it's absolutely true that it's tougher to market a superstar in a smaller market. I mean, that's obvious. But you look around like other sports, you know, Brett Farr played in Green Bay, and he was the face of the NFL for a long time. Peyton Manning spent almost his entire career Indianapolis Colts. Not anyone's idea of a big market.

And yet the NFL went, this is our guy. and they made him the face of the league. You know, one of the biggest stars in the NBA plays in Milwaukee. You know, the two biggest stars in baseball playing for an Angels team that, you know, not a big market and never won anything. And yet, you know, you can still put the marketing muscle behind them. And I, we have to acknowledge in the NHL's case, you've also got the Canada factor, which is this whole other thing on top of it where it's not just a typical small market.

but like it can be done. You've just got to want to do it. You've got to want to like, you know, put it behind. Do what the NHL has said it doesn't want to do, which is market a player and not the team, not the, not the credit, you know, actually market the name on the back of the jersey and not the logo on the front.

So it's going to be interesting to see how much they do it. You know, the marketing guys in the NHL probably, if you hooked them up to a lie detector, are wishing that this was Connor McDavid against the New York Rangers, the biggest, U.S. market where you can really lean into the history and all that, but you know what, it can

be done. Let's just see if they actually make the effort to do it. But you know what I think is funny too or interesting is that like you bring up Favin Manning and I think they both had great personalities, right? Or at least kind of outgoing. I think of Manning too, especially he's very outgoing.

McDavid is very stoic and very it's like Crosby, right? He's awesome. He's on the ice. Yeah. Is that part of it? The problem in marketing is that the personality isn't, like Matthew Kuchukh would be easy to sell. You know what I mean?

Like he's outgoing. But, and CJ, you've been around McDavid a lot. He's just he's very, he's calm, right? He's very measured with everything that he does and says. Yeah, though I will say I noticed a difference in him this year. And I'm talking long before the playoff run. I remember, you know, Edmonton plays one game in Toronto year. It was a Saturday.

and he held court for a good period of time. And he was taking questions on all manner of things around the league. Like it wasn't just about whatever was going on with the Oilers in that moment. And like he really spoke with authority. And, you know, I've seen him come out of his shell a little bit more. But you're right. It's still only going to be what it's going to be. You know, I found him very reticent early in his career with the reporters,

almost sometimes a little standoffish. Like, I didn't, I don't think he really enjoyed it all that part of his job. I think he's probably made peace with it now. And, you know, let's face it, he is, whether the marketing muscles there or not, he's kind of the face of the league at this point. He's certainly the greatest talent in the NHL and, you know, year after year after year. He's, you know, chasing scoring titles and winning hard trophies and, you know, all these things. And now if he gets a Stanley Cup, I mean, I think he's getting a little more comfortable,

but you're right. He's never going to be Matthew Kachuk, who was in People magazine last year during the Cup final run for Florida. So I was thinking, like, at that time, like, wow, that's something I wouldn't expect from an NHL player, but Kichuk is so marketable. loves a controversial quote. He's got like a little glint in his eye when he does media interviews. It's definitely different vibe than what McDavid puts off. Yeah.

And look, let's let's be honest. Some of that's our fault, right? This is, you know, all of, and I'm saying us, the media, but the fans too. Like we, we want personality from these guys, but as soon as they show any, we turn around and go, well, that's why the team didn't win. Oh, you know, yeah, Mitch, maybe if Mitch Martin spent a little less time doing the grid at his wedding and more time lifted way, like, what? What are we talking about? Like, how do we, you know, we play both sides of it. And you look, I can understand it for McDavid.

Like, think of his very first moment in the NHL before he ever put on a jersey. The very first Connor McDavid welcomed in the NHL moment was the draft lottery. The ping pong balls drop. They say the Edmonton Oilers have won the draft lottery. We cut to a shot of Connor McDavid. He blinks twice and everybody immediately goes, that guy's ticked off. He doesn't want to go to Edmonton. We got a controversy.

Get him out of the, you know, and it's like, I'm sure he was sitting there going, No, man, I just, blame. I didn't even know I was on TV. Like, how am I already in trouble for this? So, I don't know. I'm crossing my fingers that maybe the Oilers win a cup and McDavid goes, okay, you know what? Now I can show some of the personality because nobody can say I'm the reason that we're not winning

because I, you know, I did a commercial or I, you know, whatever. Maybe it, maybe he opens it up a little bit because, you know, I mean, Ian, you mentioned Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning for the first few years was like this, you know, bumpkin guy that nobody really thought head of personality and then suddenly it kind of came out. He went on Saturday Night Live and everybody was like, this is going to be a disaster.

And then we're like, oh, this guy's actually funny. I don't think McDavid's getting any Saturday Night Live invites, but, you know, maybe we can at least, maybe we can get him doing a commercial where he doesn't look like he hates Wayne Gretzky. Let's start with that and, you know, we go from there. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny too

because I think this whole year, the narrative around the Oilers has been copper bust, right? Like that was it. Cupp or bust, this is the year. You know, Daniel Lugent Bowman wrote a terrific piece just before the playoffs started, copper busted evidence. So C.J., as you look at this, is that fair? Does it still feel like that is, they've gotten three quarters of the way there?

Does that still feel like the narrative that they have to get this done? Yes. I mean, look, they have a general manager who's out of contract after the season. They have Leon Drysiddle, who's got one year beyond this one on his contract. Conor McDavid's got two. I'm not saying, I don't think anyone knows, but this group doesn't have the feeling of it's, they've got five more cracks at it.

You know, I think that there's some uncertainty there about how the team is going to progress going forward. You know, I don't know if they win the cup, if that makes it more likely they stay together or if it's the opposite, but, you know, I think that this year for Edmonton, after, you know, going to the conference final two years ago, losing to Vegas, which won the cup last year in the second round,

I mean, I feel like they, they were knocking at the door against the best teams and they're just facing this period where there's definitely some uncertainty about what the team looks like and whether you're going to be able to keep the top players in particular, you know, in uniform. So I mean, it's definitely easy to say cup or busts when your four wins from it. I mean, when Daniel wrote a story and there's 16 wins, I mean, sometimes you lose in the first round, you're like, oh, that's a big bust. We've had a lot of that in Toronto with cup or bust seasons ending before May even comes. So, you know, I do think it is cup or bus for Edmonton, I think it's their last best chance at it. Look, they're probably

keeping the band together next year. I mean, even if Drysidal isn't in a position where he's going to sign extension, I would think after seeing this, no matter what happens in the next two weeks, that you're going to want to at least give them one more crack at it. But, you know, in the cap era, it's just unfortunately, this is the reality, right? Teams come together and break apart and you kind of have to try to line up the stars in the moon and win while that all falls in line. Yeah. And it's, you know, right now with Edmonton breaking through getting to the final not knowing what's in that that that that box when we when we open it and find out if they get this to championship or not it it kind of feels to me right now like okay they've answered the questions they put it to rest even if they don't win there's no more of this all the oilers can't get it done you know they can't win with these guys but the thing is reality tells us history tells us that's not the case you know you look back I think it's San Jose, the team that was great for years and years and years and then they finally make the final,

they lose to the penguins. You look back at that team. The legacy is not, hey, that's a great team. At least they made the final. That's one of the great teams that never won. Ian, that's Senator's team that you covered for so long.

Yeah. Similar situation. And even the Red Wings, you know, we all love to talk this story about, you know, before they got Brennan-Shanahan, they were such a bus.

They were the team that couldn't win. They had been to a final, but they got swept. And so everybody went, this team still can't win. So it's like, as great as it is, and I'm not trying to rein on any parades in Edmonton here, but there is no parade to rain on yet.

There's still four wins away from it. And as much as you think the legacy has changed already based on winning three rounds, history tells us that's not always the way we look at it. You know, and I think what they've done is they've done a better job now, obviously of surrounding McDavid and Drysidal with a little bit more talent. And obviously the guy you think of is Zach Hyman. and I got to ask you guys this question because Heiman, when he signed the seven-year deal and the AAV was 5-5, everyone was like, ooh, that's that's a lot for kind of a middle six guy.

But obviously he's elevated, become a 50-goal guy. If I ask the question, is Zach Heimann the best free agent signing in the salary cap era? Would you guys agree with that? Like, I'm having a hard time thinking of a guy that has been a better thing somewhere. For so long, that question has, you've had to go all the way back to the beginning of the era for Scotty. Chara or something. And Zadano Chara, I think, are the two guys from the beginning that you looked at and went. Yep.

They, you know, they transformed teams, obviously, eventually won Stanley Cups. Since then, it's been a lot of either, you know, other than the bargain basement guys who come through, it's been a lot of really bad contracts, a lot of really regrettable decisions, and then occasionally get like an Artemi Panera and where you go, yeah, he lived up to it. And that's about, you know, but nobody's even looking at Artemian panic

going, that guy's a part. No, that guy was a free agent and he has lived up to his deal. I think in recent years, yeah, Heimann might be the guy. Certainly if he can maintain being this kind of player, it's, then I mean, he's going to be.

be suddenly he pushes to the front of the line of that best contract in the league, which is not something I think we've ever said about a UFA deal. It's usually those guys on second year deals, the Nathan McKinnons and Alex Barkovs and those guys who we look at as the great discounts. I don't know if we've ever said it for a UFA. No, and you know, remember the circumstances when he was signed. He suffered a knee injury in the playoffs with the Leafs that year. So he was injured, essentially recovering from an injury.

I think it was 28 or 29. Like a little bit old when you're looking at a seven year deal. Like there was risk there, I guess, for Edmonton is what I'm saying. That's why I think Ian people responded as they did. Like it felt a little long and you're like, you know, they're paying him to be a semi-impact player. And can he do that? And obviously he's far exceeded it. It's amazing story.

I mean, Carter Hage might be another one who's one of those, you know, best cases. But again, there was less risk there. I mean, his initial contract with Florida, he was kind of, bargain basement. Let's see what he can be. And he's obviously turned into a pretty front line player for them. And the other amazing thing about Zach Hyman is you look at that. And it's, you know, the temptation is to say, hey, yeah, maybe we didn't see it.

The Euler saw it. You know, somebody, you know, the GMs, the guys who look at the money, the scouts who would have watched Zach Hyman in Toronto. So wherever the pro scouts are, they're looking at track. But then a year later, that exact same group does the Jack Campbell contract. and which is now you're holding up as this is one of the very worst free agent contracts. Same guys. Exactly same. You know, presumably same process, save voices at the table.

And yet complete opposite ends of the spectrum on the results. Again, my theory that nobody in this league knows anything, us included. And, you know, we're just flipping coins here. And, boy, you saw the oilers are the version of both ends of the coin. Yeah, no, exactly. You know, I think it's really interesting. We're going into a Stanley Cup final here, and we have a player on Florida in Sam Reinhardt,

who scored 57 goals. And as a UFA on July 1st, like we're under a month until UFA. And I don't feel like we're talking about it as much. And maybe that's a product of he's in Florida. He's not in a bigger market or in a Canadian market. But like, CJ, I'm sure that's going to be on Media Day later this week. It's going to be a topic. What's going to happen?

Sime Reinhardt. Does you stay like, are you hearing anything about Reinhart and what might happen to him in the next few weeks? Well, all I've heard is, and I think this is why it hasn't been his biggest story is what you're guessing. I don't think he's inclined to take this to the wall necessarily. I mean, he might be forced to in the end. Obviously, he's going to get paid something that he thinks is fair. But I think all things being equal, he wants to stay where he is. And who could blame him?

I mean, the Panthers, like, I can't. underlined you enough how much I used to hate going to games there. Like it would literally for me was when I was covering the whole league all the time was the worst place to watch a game. Like it was always empty, no life. And they have just turned it right around. And, you know, that building's loud. It's a great place to live.

They've got a practice facility at the beach. Like players take from their houses to the morning skate a golf cart. And they've got the tax situation, the weather. Like, why would you ever want to leave there? And so I think I think the. reason partially I guess it's the Panthers are obviously not covered on a day to day basis as closely some other teams and but also just there's there's not this sense of tension that there is like even in the Stamco's thing with Tampa right there's tension there you're just wondering like

what what's going on whereas with Reinhardt you just kind of get the feeling they're going to work it out but man I mean if game seven goes to June 24th they got six seven days until he's a potential free agent after that fact I mean someone's going to have to sober up at that point if they win the cup, long enough to get a contract done. So, I mean, it's just, it's a very unique circumstance. And I think you're right, Ian, with, with media day coming on Friday, all the, you know, the national Canadian media coming in like myself, I'm sure we're going to now start hitting the drum a little bit louder on this storyline that's kind of just been under the surface.

I mean, even Brandon Montour plays big minutes for the Panthers D. You know, he's also a UFA. But it's just no one wants to leave there. So you kind of assume they're going to find a way to work it out. But we're getting, we're getting down to last minute. and obviously there's more front of mind business for the players themselves right now. Final question for you, CJ, before we cut you loose, I love the fact that we have a head coach in the Seattle Cup final

who coached the Hartford Whalers back in the day in Paul Maurice. He is a great, he's a quote machine. He's a dream. Every time I've dealt with him, he's awesome, he's funny, he's got levity, he's got a little bit of bite and snark, all the stuff that we love as media members. I'm wondering you've been around this league a long time. do you have any, you know, Paul Maurice's memories, maybe when you were covering when he was with the Leafs,

or just with Winnipeg where you had a great, funny, memorable interaction with the head coach of Florida Panthers. You know, it's probably a bit of recency bias. I've been around Paul a long time, as you mentioned, and he is, like, he's always been this way. Like, I remember I was a very, very, very, very new media member back in 2002, but I remember when Carolina went on a run during that year's playoffs, he was kind of the breakout star.

I mean, all of a sudden, you know, people, because in that time, media interviews weren't circulated as freely as they are now. People didn't even know what he was almost. And, you know, he commanded the microphone. But last year, the Panthers came to Toronto with seven or eight games left in regular season. They looked dead. Like, they looked like there was no chance. They were making the playoffs.

And someone asked him kind of a simple question, like, what makes you believe? And he just went on this soliloquy. And it was just like, I was like, man, I was ready to run through. wall after hearing him do it. And then it grew in my mind so much because then I think they, you know, won seven of the last eight games with Alex Lyon. They get in the playoffs. They knock off that historical Bruins team. They go to the cup final. Like he's very unique. Um, almost Ken Hitchcockian is maybe the closest I can think of a coach who really like you, you might come in with one set of questions as a reporter and he just spins you a different way because he's got such a

great way of putting things and thinking about things and looking at them. So, um, I don't have like one funny moment, but I do remember that soliloquy you gave and, man, made me believe they could do it and then they went and did it, which makes it even better. Let's remember, this guy stepped down from his last job in Winnipeg. I mean, it looked like there was a chance he was done coaching the NHL. He walked away from the Jets was sort of going through some, you know, I think just burnt out through the pandemic years and he's clearly found new life with the Panthers. And he's never won a Stanley Cup. He's got to, he's been awfully close, but he's got a chance to finally get that done here in the next few weeks.

He looked so done when he left Winnipeg. And I don't even know, I've gotten conflicting messages on like how Jets fans feel about all this. Like are you rooting for the guy? Are you looking at this going like, hey, this guy quit on us? Like he clearly had still headed and he just didn't have it for us or do you just kind of say like under the circumstances you wish him the best because I, like I will own it. When he walked away from Winnipeg, I thought this guy's done.

when they hired him in Florida, especially moving on from Andrew Brunette after the year he had had. So this is a disaster. This is a terrible move. You're going to the recycle bin for this guy and through half a season, I looked smart.

And then I stopped looking smart. He's made me look very, very dumb ever since. And I know I'm not the only one. Because he's become a hell of a story. I think he is the, you know, you talk about Matthew Kachuk being the quote machine.

Hope Paul Maurice saves some material because he's been doing a tight five after every game of the playoffs. And now he's got a big, big audience here to go. Yeah, no, it should be a lot of fun. And CJ, we look forward to your coverage with some, you know, Paul Maurice features and whatnot over the next couple of weeks, safe travels. I know it won't be easy getting between Edmonton and Fort Lauderdale. So safe travels. And yeah, hopefully we'll be able to find a window to connect with you ahead of game. two of the Stanley Cup final next week.

Absolutely. And don't worry, I will never complain about the travel when you're going to the Stanley Cup final. Like, I'm not divorced enough from reality yet to realize, like, it's insane that I get to go. So I'm, keep that mind, everyone, when it's hour 16 and the CJ's still at the sleeping at the airport. I love Laz,

but I would never tweet the stuff he tweets. I'm like, you're just opening yourself up for someone working a real job out there to tell you what it's really like. I feel like that's like a context-free. evergreen soundlight right there. I would never tweet with Mark Lazarus tweets. Ever. Yeah. All right. Well, safe travel, CJ.

We'll hit you off next week. All right. See you guys. All right. Tell you what, Sean. Let's move out of CJ and into Jesse Granger. As we do on a Monday, it is Granger Things. Brought to you by BetMGM, the exclusive betting partner with the athletic. And I got to tell you, there's a little bit of jealousy here, Jesse Granger, from a couple of Canadian guys who are lamenting the state of gold. pending in this country and you have an embarrassment of riches and yet you still, USA hockey,

still decides, let's all get together and have a goalie symposium. So that's where we find you today, right? St. Paul, Minnesota. Take us, take us through what this goalie symposium's all about. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I've been up here for the last four days. This is the first of its kind. So they have had goalie camps in the past where they get a bunch of goalies on the ice and they'll have some coaches. But this was, there was a little bit of on ice work where the coaches, They had some demo goalies and they showed us some things, but this was mostly for the coaches. So they had all the brightest minds in USA hockey and goaltending come together for four days here in Minnesota. And we had some great goalies from the past.

Ryan Miller was here. Mike Richter was here. We had the New Jersey Devils coaching staff. Their goaltending staff was here. A lot, a lot of really good presenters. And they basically, there were some high-level goalie coaches and some non-high-level goalie coaches around the country. They're basically trying to spread the message, try to get everyone on the same page. So if you're coaching an eight-year-old in Colorado or if you're coaching in the

HL, they want the message to be similar throughout a goalie's career. They think that's a big deal. And it was really cool. I learned a lot of new things about goaltending. Met some good people. One of the biggest takeaways for me, one of the things that I found most interesting of all the presentations this weekend was the fact. the fact that maybe goalies shouldn't take longer to develop.

And that's obviously us covering the NHL. That's kind of, we hear that all the time, right? Like a goalie takes longer to develop. You're not going to be able to play them at 20 or 21 like you can a skater. They're not going to be ready until they're 25. And we've always kind of just assumed that that is because the position is what it is. It takes a lot of play reading. It's more mental than physical.

You've got to get experience. It's a lot more between the years than. physical development, and we've always just kind of assumed that. But Stephen Thompson, the director of goaltending for USA hockey, he gave a presentation, and he basically said, I don't think that's the case. He's like, I think we're actually coaching goalies poorly. I think we're developing them poorly. And that's the reason it takes them longer to develop and be ready to play at higher levels. And he gave pretty good reasons why that make a lot of sense. So goalies don't have as many touch points with their coaches growing up. You think about what a practice is like

for a youth hockey player, a skater, forward or defenseman. You run a drill, and then you skate to the back of the line, and now you have all this time to wait before you run the drill again. And what's happening during that time? You're thinking about what you did well, what you didn't do well, what you want to do better on the next rep. The coach might come over to you, talk to you. What happens during a game?

You take a shift, you go to the bench. You get to think about what you did right on that. The coach comes over, says, hey, you did this wrong. Next time you're out there, do this right. Meanwhile, the goalie is sitting in the next. net just getting puck shot at them. It's a shooting range during the game and during practices. And as a whole, the USA hockey development model would like to see more goalies on teams.

So maybe not one or two goalies on a team, put three goalies on a team. That way they can rotate in the nets at practice and they can get more instruction. And more more than the instruction, because you don't want to overcoach a kid, it's the reflection period. It's the ability to run a drill, think about what you weren't doing. was I using this technique? Was I not using this technique? Some kids, they go the whole practice, just getting pucks fired at them. And then at the end of it, they're like, oh, man, I didn't even work on the thing that my coach told me to. So they want to kind of redo the way we're developing

goalies from a very young age. And they think that it can pay major dividends. Can you imagine if that works? And now suddenly you've got goalies coming out of college 20 years old and they're ready to play in the NHL. And that's just the normal thing. That would be amazing. And it used to be the case. I mean, you know, the extreme. Tom Barrasso came in, won the Vezina as a teenager. You know, granted, that was 40 years ago. And boy, that would be such a game changer if it happened because, you know, the other related piece of that is because it's just assumed that a goalie isn't

going to be ready till 25, let's say, that's a major reason why we don't see, for the most part, goalies drafted very high in the NHL because it's such a, you know, you know, it not only are they harder to project out that far, um, it's, it's also, you know,

as a GM, you're sitting there going, I'm not going to draft a guy who's going to be the savior for the next GM seven years from now. I want somebody to help now. And if, if you started seeing that, it's,

it's something that is, I think, confusing to new fans, or people maybe even aren't hockey fans when you look at, when you watch the playoffs and it's so obvious that goaltending is so crucial. And yet, you don't even see guys getting drafted in the first round some years. You know, as far as the goalies union, boy, if you could ever get to, you know,

get those guys into the league earlier, you'd start seeing, hey, first overall pick, who's the best goalie prospect this year? Maybe that's a guy we go and get instead of saying that, you know, we'll start looking at it in round five. 100%. And the other main focus this week that I guess they were trying to get out there to all the goalie coaches that are now going back across the country and going back to where they live, is we need more goalies.

That's the other issue is. So I mentioned they'd like to have three goalies on a team so that they can have more touch points with the coaches and rotate. Well, right now they don't even have two goalies on a team. They showed the USA hockey numbers. And right now, four percent of the players registered to USA hockey are goalies. So just to put that in perspective, on a 20-person team, if two of them are goalies, that's 10%. So 10% would be two goalies per team and we're at 4% right now.

That's not good enough and you're not going to be able to implement the strategies that they want if you don't get more goalies. So there is a lot of presentations about how to get more goalies, try goalie for free events, bring a bunch of pads to the rink. Every kid that wants to try goalie that day gets to try. Maybe you'll find a kid that wasn't thinking about it that gets out there and actually likes it. And the other thing that they're trying to do is they want to get rid of the stigma. around goalie and it's it's they're what when you think of the goalie and parents don't want their kids to be goalies that's the problem it's not that kids don't want to be goalies so many goalie coaches this weekend told me man I have so many kids that want to play goalie and the parents are like

absolutely not and it used to be the price but with the with the the way sticks costs now forward equipment and defensive equipment costs just as much as goalies because these sticks are three hundred dollars you're buying four or five a year because they break them because they're not wooden sticks that last forever the price point isn't the reason parents don't want their kids to play goalies. It's the stigma of who's the goalie. It's the weird kid. It's the kid that's, you guys are huge weirdos. Yes, yes. The kid that's, the kid that's not as athletic. It's, you don't, you don't want, if you've got a star athlete, if your kid is the most athletic kid in his age group, you do not want him playing goalie. You want

him playing center, scoring all the goals being the star. And it's our job. It's, it's the goalie coaches jobs around the country to change that stigma. And if you can get, someone told me in Sweden, it's a privilege to play goalie. It's almost, they put the, they have put the goalie on a pedestal in Sweden. And if you're the best athlete of all your friends, you almost feel like it's your duty to play goalie for the team because that's the hero. He's the guy that decides whether we win or lose. And that's not the case in America. It's not the case in Canada. If you can get, maybe not always your best athlete, but if we can get more of the best athletes choosing to play goalie, the numbers go up, you can develop them better.

I mean, USA hockey is doing pretty good right now. If you look at the NHL, I mean, Connor Hellebuck, Jeremy Swayman, Ottinger, Demko, Gibson, the whole group of young kids behind the 30 August. Yeah, yeah, we get it. Yeah, but there's still plenty of room. And this is, and all of this applies to Canada, too. Like I was at a USA hockey goalie symposium. I'm sure there are going to be meetings in Canada this summer with similar messages

because Canada needs to be better at goalies too. So I just think if we can get more kids playing goalie and more of the better athletes playing goalie. It'll be better for the game overall. That was going to be my big question. Did you take detailed notes and can we see them? Yeah. You send them on up north. Yeah. Ian and I promise, it's just for us.

We're not going to share them with anyone. We just want to have a look because I don't, yeah, I'm not, I'm not really looking forward to the Olympics in two years where McKenzie Blackwood is starting for Team Canada against the guys you just mentioned. Bennington had a big season. Bennington, great. Yeah, we want somebody cool and calm. Right? That's what we want under pressure.

Stuart Skinner might be the guy that the way, the way things are going right now. Geez, talk about ups and downs of, so just to be clear, you were, you never got off the Stewart Skinner bandwagon even when he was, you know, rolling along at about 745 save percentage. It's, it's been pretty, I've said this from the beginning. Me being on the Stewart Skinner bandwagon is less to do with my faith in Stuart Skinner and more to do with my lack of faith in Calvin Pickard, as much as nice of a guy as he is. I don't want him trying to lead me to the Stanley Cup final. That's fair.

And you were right. We found the goalie that Jesse's not as confident in. That's rough break for Calvin, though, listening to this right now. Big time. Well, it was a week ago, right, where the Oilers season was kind of hanging in the balance. And I said I would go to Pickard and you were, and last, we're pretty adamant. Stick with Stuart Skinner. And obviously he rebounded.

They won three straight games. But I kind of feel like he's going into this cup. And maybe it's the anti-Nimi vibes, right, when Chicago won their first cup, where it's kind of like you win, but like he's just a guy and you almost win, not in spite of him, but he's just sort of a, like,

what are your feelings, your honest feelings on Stuart Skinner in a best of seven against the Florida Panthers? Yeah. And you know what? Even more recent, Darcy Kemper with Colorado. Like he, I think Darcy Kempard is a more accomplished goalie,

but that year in the playoffs, he was not playing well. And it seemed like, Aden Hill, you know, as far as guys that weren't, you know, it wasn't even the starter last year, the beginning of the playoffs.

But yeah, I mean, the difference is, and honestly, you know what's funny? When I watch Stuart Skinner play, his style reminds me so much of Aiden Hill. They look just like each other to me, just the way they play goal.

Obviously, he's not on the hot streak that Aden Hill was on, but as we saw with Aiden Hill, that hot street can begin any time. And maybe it, maybe it starts. They've got a week off before the cup finals. He's going to get to do media day and all that. Maybe and what an opportunity. Like, you're sitting there and yes, everyone has said you got carried to the cup final. You haven't been the guy that led them there. But 200 feet away from you on the other end of the ice, Sergey Bobrovsky looking to cement his

Hall of Fame status. And it's your, you have the chance to outplay him. And if you do it for four out of seven games, you're the hero. And you ended the Canadian Cup drought. Like, this is a great opportunity for him. He's a super talented guy. He hasn't played that well in these playoffs. Do I think it's terribly likely he outplays Sergei Bobrovsky? No, but this sport's weird. This position's weird. It can happen. Skinner can put together four good games. His techniques have not been great. Everyone saw the tweet that I posted when he had the skate on the post on the RVH and Jason Robertson's goal slipped in there. He's been a little too aggressive. He's out of his net too many times. It happened a couple times last night where he was kind of sliding out of his crease and the puck went back.

One of them was a goal. A couple of them didn't end up in the back of the net. He's not playing particularly well. I'm not here to say Skinner's been awesome. But I do think this is a great opportunity and I could see him putting together enough to get the win with the high-powered offense the Oilers have. So let's go 200 feet in the other direction here and just have a quick convo on Sergey Bobrovsky. And I think two or three years ago, I wouldn't, I would have probably been laughed out of the room. on this question because it felt like his career had sort of plateaued or declined or whatever we want to say,

but he took them to the final last year. He's back in the final this year. Guys, if Sergey Barbravsky wins the Stanley Cup, is he a Hall of Famer in your mind? That would be two Veznas and a Stanley Cup. Hall of Famer? I think Sean's better equipped to answer this because he is the historian, the Hall of Fame guy. but I'll just quickly say two Vezina's in an era where you don't see that same guys staying at the top of the position. I mean, like, Vesna guys, like, Linus O'Mark won the Vesna and didn't even start for his team in the playoffs this year. It's kind of a rotating cast of guys.

He's got two of them. He will have won a Stanley Cup on another team. I think he's one of the best goalies of this generation. And to me, that's kind of the definition of Hall of Famer. But like I said, I think Sean's better at answering this than I am. If you look at the list of guys who won multiple Vezanas, it's an awful lot of Hall of Famers. Now, it's a little weird because remember the Vezina as a trophy was originally for Best Goley, and then they switched it and it kind of became what is now the Masterton,

where it was just numeric based on, you know, fewest goals allowed. And then it went back in the early 80s. Jennings, not the Masterton. Sorry, yes, yeah, you're right, the Jennings. And then it went back to, you know, how we know it today. So in between there's some weird, like Bunny LaRoc shows up as a multi-time as a winner because he was the backup goalie on those Habs teams. But when you look at the guys who were the best goalie in the league multiple years, there's not a lot that aren't in the Hall of Fame. And, you know, one of the guys who's on that list is Tim Thomas.

Tim Thomas had as far as a two-year peak, you know, two of the three years, as high a peak as anybody. but then there's just nothing else to be made as far as he's case. He started so late, you know, he didn't play all that long. Sergey Bobrovsky has had the longer career. I always say whenever we get into Hall of Fame debates, whenever you have somebody who's maybe in their late 20s, and people start saying, this guy's a Hall of Fame lock. And you go, well, you know, hold on.

And people say, well, yeah, but if he retired today, he's already done enough. And I always say it's not if he retires today. it's what happens if he diminishes today and he plays 10 more years. It's, you know, we talked earlier in the show being about Danny Healy. Like he's, he's a classic example of that,

a guy who absolutely looked like he was on a Hall of Fame track. And it wasn't that he retired or he got injured. It was that he just stopped being productive. And for years and years, he was a shell of his former self. And Circuit Bobrovsky looked like he was following that, right? When he,

he went to the Panthers, signs that big, big huge contract and just didn't look good for several years to the point where everyone was like, you know, put a fork in this guy. He's done. You even saw him start to show up on like worst contracts in the league. You're stuck with a goalie making 10 million. He's the highest paid goalie in the league, not counting Kerry Price. You can't win with 10 million sunk in a guy who, I mean, geez, with Spencer Knight coming along, it looked like this guy was going to be your backup goalie at best. And then he flipped the switch. Really last year in the play.

playoffs was when it happened. He had that great run and then this year was very good. I think he is, I think he's in at this point. I think at this point, I'm willing to say that, you know, the fact that he's had the playoff runs, the fact that he's, he's a finalist this year back again for the Vesna, that he already has the two wins in his back pocket. One year as a heart finalist. You know, at the end of the day, we'll have to look at, you know, how high does he get up the list of wins? but I mean, he's going to get his 400th win early next year. That's not guaranteed numbers. You know, Ryan Miller will tell you,

but you're certainly getting into that range. I think he's going to get in. And if he wins the Stanley Cup, I think we can pretty much stamp a lock on it. Yeah, remarkable turn of events. Because like I said, two or three years ago, or even he would argue 13 months ago, you'd be like, I don't think this guy is going to the Hall of Fame.

You know who loves this is like the UC Saro? or the agents for those guys. Go in, give him a $10 million. That's how the Florida Panthers won the Stanley Cup by spending big on goaltending. Don't go cheap. Yep. Not only was that like he, well, that's a bad contract. It was almost like a damnation on the entire position.

That one contract. Everyone pointed to that and said, you cannot pay goalies. Look at Sergey Bobrovsky. And imagine the like, now I'm not sure here to pity party for a guy that makes $10 million a year. but imagine the pressure that was on Babrovsky when he got to Florida and he's struggling, a guy that works harder than any goalie in the league, and everyone's pointing to the money you make and saying, this is why we can't pay anyone that plays that position.

That's brutal. And he's turned it around. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. Before we wrap up the podcast here, Jesse, on this Monday, we bring in as a presentation, as I always say, at MGM. And I'm wondering, as we hit the Stanley Cup final,

now granted, we still have five days until this series starts. So maybe some of these lines will shift and some of the odds might be a little bit different as we get closer to Saturday. But now we know it's the Panthers, it's the Oilers. What are some of the lines or series odds that are jumping out to you right now? Yeah. So right now it's pretty much a coin toss. I mean, you look at the straight up odds. The Panthers are the favorites at minus 130 and the Oilers are at plus 110.

So almost even money to bet the Oilers. You get a little bit more than your money back. But pretty even. And like you said, we've got five days of betting to possibly shift those. The thing that was interesting to me is everyone thinks it's going to go long, which makes sense with the coin toss series. So you can bet correct series result, bet the exact number of games a team is going to win in.

And right now the favorite for that is Florida in seven at plus 400. So you win four times your money. The second favorite, Oilers and six. Everyone thinks they'll win on home ice at plus 450. So very, very close to Florida in seven. And the longest odds are the Oilers with a sweep at 13 to 1. So long series, everyone expects, close series. It should be a lot of fun.

I think these teams match up well. You guys on the Zoom call could see me making that face when you said 13 to 1 on Oilers and 4. Well, okay. You know, I don't hate it. I'm thinking as I'm all in on Edmonton. Ian, this is this is it. This is the, Edmonton is clearly going to win.

I'm just going to make a note for myself. Got to pick Florida on Wednesday with Gentile. By the way, speaking of picks, just real fast, Granger, help us down the stretch run here. You and Gentile neck in our picks contest that you have won. Did you win, you won last year? And the year before. We've done it two years.

I am the back-to-back defending champion in the playoff picks contest, trying to defend it. But the last two years, it wasn't that close. We did it. We did it three years because I have a trophy from year one, and then you showed up. And I'm not really in the ring. I'm hot now, but you started piggybacking on my Oilers picks and then got the moved up last night. You tied Gentilly. Can you give me any hints?

Like, what's the strategy? Are you going to play the game where you wait on the pick and make him commit first? and are we going to get the game of chicken happening? What's what's going to happen? I don't know what my strategy is going to be for the final. What I can tell you is my strategy, I went, I think, oh for six. I was leading by a pretty good margin there for a while. And then I think I lost six in a row in the conference final.

I could not, these two series were wild. I could not pick one, correct? So for the last like three games, I literally said, okay, who do I think is going to win? I'm picking the opposite. And I won three in a row since then and got back up. I think I'm tied with Sean or it's close. but I literally started picking the opposite of what I thought was going to happen, and it worked, and I started winning.

So maybe I'll just stick with that strategy going forward. Costanza mode. And yeah, for the record, you guys are tied percentage-wise heading in. You're both showing a number one, but you are, you're two wins ahead. Yeah, I've picked more games than he has. You've picked more games. So I think he maybe is actually slightly up on the percentage, but you've got more wins.

So this could, I need one of you to decisively win this. I don't want this to turn into like a coaches poll versus the media poll thing where there's two champions. All right. So you guys figure it out. But I want this to happen. Yeah, trying to win three in a row. Geez. Well, that'll be one of the things to look forward to here in the cup final.

Listen, Jesse, as always, thanks for popping by the Monday pod, filling us in on the, the goaltending symposium. This was great, as always, to catch up with you. Sean, thanks for sitting in for Laz, pinch hitting for, but you're back in two days to really push the Florida Panthers in four, right? Yeah, I've got 48 hours to figure out why the Panthers are going to sweep.

But until then, you're going to one, man. I'm in. He's all in. All right. We'll leave it there. If you are enjoying the athletic hockey show, please leave us a five-star rating and review.

Like I said, you get two doses of Sean this week. Macandu is back on. Wednesday with Sean Gentile. Las will be back next week with me. Until then, have a great week. And Laz and I will talk to you again on Monday.