The Athletic Hockey Show - William Nylander signs monster extension with the Leafs, Connor Bedard out with a fractured jaw, the PWHL’s record setting start, and more

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

On a brand new Monday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show, Ian, Julian, and guest cohost Mark Lazerus discuss William Nylander’s monster $92 million, 8-year contract extension with the Toronto Maple Leafs, Connor Bedard suffering a fractured jaw and his timetable to return, whether the Jets, Canucks, or Flyers are the biggest surprise team in the standings, intriguing current playoff matchups, the record-setting start for the PWHL, and more.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGet a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $2 a month when you visit http://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. Well, it's been a while since I've said this, but happy Monday, happy New Year. And welcome back. It is the first brand new edition of the Athletic Hockey Show in 2024, at least the one that we put together. I know the world juniors guys were busy, but we weren't last week. Let's be honest, gang, Monday, January 8th is officially day one of 2024. Last week didn't count. No one's at work.

No one's at school, right? Except for the world junior guys. I think it was five pounds I gained last week. Don't count either. No, nothing counts. Today, day one, January 8th. Who's with me? Hey, the kids went back to school today.

So it's like a whole new year for me now. This is New Year's Day for me. Yeah, exactly. This one, this feels like it. And we got a brand, you know, we wrapped up 2023. We did that look ahead show, right? We were like, here's the 10 big storylines. of the year 2020.

And I'm pretty sure we put William Nealander's future in there, didn't we? We talked about compelling contract situations. Well, here we go. On day one of 2024, at least for us, Willie Neelander is signed sealed and delivered eight years with an AAV of $11.5 million. So $92 million, the richest contract in terms of total value in Toronto Maple Leaf's history. and the question I ask for you gentlemen today is this. How does he live up to that?

Like, what's the scenario in which Willie Nealander lives up to that contract and everyone's like, yeah, you know what, in hindsight? Great deal. Great deal. What's the scenario here, Julian? I think he has to just more or less produce it at the same level that he's been producing at this year or at least somewhere close to it. But that's almost impossible.

But at the same time, the Leafs, They couldn't let this guy go, right? Or if they did, I mean, it would have to come up with some significant return or just find a way to justify somehow letting a guy that they draft go. I don't know how that would have worked, but it got to a point where the more he was going to produce this year, the more they ran with the risk of that price tag going up. And I'll give him this. Like, you look through all those playoff failures where maybe Austin Matthews didn't show up in the clutch.

Mitch Marner not showing up at key times. You could look at moments where William Neelander did for this team. And I have to say it for the sake of the player, I think he deserves it. And I think if they keep, at least with that forward core that they have, if they keep them together, I want to say there's a chance he could at least come close to that production. And maybe once the salary cap goes up in a few years, you eventually look at that contract and don't think of it as bloated or as expensive. as we would think about it in the moment. I don't know if I have a problem with it for the player.

I definitely think about it for the team. But I also, I don't know. It feels like William Nealander's gotten better and better as the years go by. And I want to say he can at least get close to justifying the contract. But also, ultimately at this point, they're trying to win a Stanley Cup. If he wins a cup, that makes everything. That's the only part of this, what you just said that really matters here. If the Maple Leafs win a Stanley Cup during the next eight years,

then nobody's going to complain about this contract. It's that simple. One Stanley Cup. One Stanley Cup in eight years. That's what they need. And nobody will complain about any of the money that the Maple Leafs have given up. You're 100% right. Nealander deserves this contract.

He earned this contract. The Leafs kind of had no choice but to give it to him because he's a homegrown talent and you have to swallow the pill for a year. Wait until Tavares either leaves or gets cheaper. Figure out something on Marner. You had to give this out. But it doesn't matter what his production is. It doesn't matter what line he's on.

It doesn't matter anything he does, as long as his name is on the Stanley Cup at some point in the next eight years, then nobody's going to be complaining about a single contract at least ever given up. That's the only thing he can do. And it's not even his, you know, on his ability to do it by himself. He has to win the Stanley Cup. If the least win the Stanley Cup, everything's great. Yeah. I'll add this too.

Like, if they don't win a Stanley Cup with him, Mariner, Matthews, the Toronto Maple Leafs essentially become the poster child for why you shouldn't make top-heavy teams. Last year, the Golden Knights became the first team ever to win a Stanley Cup with a $10 million player. And then one of us, $4,11 million guys. I mean, this is a roster unlike any we've ever seen in the history of the sport, at least in the cap era. But it is the most top-heavy thing I've ever seen.

Might work. Might not. Yeah. But look, Tavaris has only one more year left on his deal. So if you can stomach it for one year, figure out what Tavares is beyond that, maybe this will work. And as Julian said, look, the cap is likely going to go up if it goes up by 5% a year throughout the course of it. But I tend to agree with you, Las. They win a Stanley Cup.

It doesn't matter. And Nielander could have 55 points in his season. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. But here's the thing. And I love that. I read Gentile and Dom. They did the immediate trade grades.

And both of them basically said, Willie Nylander, A plus. Secure the bag, man. Who one's going to call to you? Toronto Maple Leafs, they got a grade around a C, C minus. But here's the question I have for both of you. Because, you know, Julian,

you're living it with Jonathan Huber, though. Las, you've lived it, I think, a little bit with Seth Jones. And walks never won a cup while Kane and Tays. We're making that 10.5. won a cup in that time. But here's the thing. We all know how this could play out, which is Neil Landers fine, but he doesn't live up to the hype. And then the market turns on him and everyone gets mad at the player. My question is, in Toronto, Ian, I'm disappointed. I think, I think they'd chill out. No. Yeah, but my question is why, as hockey fans, why don't we direct more of the

rage and anger towards the person in the general manager's chair. Yeah. Rather than the athlete himself, we act as if the athlete should have said, like John, and I'm going to use Hubert O as an example, Julian. We act as if Hubert O should have said, you know what, Levin, that's a lot of money. I think I'll take eight because I don't want the headache. Come on, guys. We live this in Chicago for years with the Brent Sebrough contract.

And Seabrook, yeah, another one. And Brent Seabrook, one of the most beloved players in Hawks history, a three-time champion, the heart and soul of those teams. Fans hated him. Chicago turned on him so harshly in his last couple of years because his play, admittedly fell off a cliff. He was not a 6.875, whatever it was a million dollar player. Nobody was mad at Stan Bowman for handing the guy a contract.

It was already 30 years old and giving him an eight-year deal worth all the money. Everyone was mad at Brent Seabrook for getting old. I've never understood why you would ever be mad at a player. It's this weird dynamic we have where sports is the only, only part of American or North American society where we give the billionaires the benefit of the doubt and hate or get mad at the working class people, right? Because in hockey, you know, you might be making $10 million, but you're the worker. You're labor here. And we're like, no, management.

Yay. It never makes sense to me. Why should you get a counterpoint. I have a counterpoint to that. I think the we get mad at players. It happens. But the enemy on the other side, or I don't want to say enemy, but the person on the other side isn't necessarily management. It's ownership.

And ownership is allowed to be these nameless, faceless money bag people who can dole out as much money as they want. And they don't end up in the eyes of angry fans. It's the players. They're the expensive ones. I think of, you know what's the commonality between William Nealander and Jonathan Huberto? I'll give you guys one guess. Give me one commonality between the money. Who gave William Neelander this money?

Brad Tree Living. And you guys are all saying, oh, guys will get mad at GMs. I could think of a bunch of fans in Calgary right now who are very upset at the composition of their team and the contracts that they're saddled with because one man decided to give those players all that money. I think in hindsight, there's the benefit of hindsight that's plaguing some of that vision. And you can look in the moment and understand why a team would want to dole out money for Jonathan Huberto coming off the season that he did. or Jacob Arctchrom, who was a developing goaltender in Vancouver and eventually becomes a star in Calgary. There's reasons why for it, but at this point now with the team where they're at, you would, there are fans that would like to see them get rid of some of those contracts. And I think for GMs, they're not necessarily excused from that either.

It's a lot easier to blame a player who plays in a game where they lose against the team with more money on injured reserve than on the actual roster. But that doesn't mean the GM is excluded from any of that currently. isn't either. I think it's it's ownership that gets pushed away from that as opposed to a Craig Conroy or Brad Trilip. No, you're right. I just get frustrated when people get mad at a player for securing that bag, right? Like they get mad at him like, oh, he's great. And they should. It's nervous. It's like, you know, don't be mad at the Dodgers for giving Shohei Otani $700 million. Be mad at the pirates owner who is also a billionaire

and who is sitting there just trying to make luxury tax money to keep himself to just to make money on this and isn't spending on his team, right? I always get I probably do that differently. What's that? No, but just with baseball, there's a whole other thing with... Oh, sure. But it just drives me much when people get mad at the player for making the money. When the player's the one you're paying tickets to see,

the player's the one that you're turning on the TV to see. The player's your guy. I don't understand when people turn on a player for making a lot of money. That is, he didn't make that call, man. The GM did and the owner's paying it. And why are you mad at the guy who made the money? So, yes, we can all see five years from now when Toronto turns on Willie Nealander. We've all seen this a million times in a million cities. And I just,

it shouldn't happen. Nobody should be mad at Willie Nealander for getting paid. This whole like, oh, in Boston, they take less money because they care about the team. Or get the hell out of here. Like, that's not how this works. And you know who hates it when players do that when they do take less money? When standard players, the NHLPA does. Because the rising tide lifts all boats. It is a player's responsibility to his fellow players to get as much money as possible to raise the floor to raise the ceiling. It is, it is disrespectful and detrimental to your fellow brethren of the, in your union, your NHLPA union, if you, you know, intentionally take less money than your worth. So don't get mad at the player. I'm just trying to preemptively stop

that. Yeah. No, I just want to add one more thing here. More people should be mad at the at the GMs, not just because of the money that they dole out to these players, but if they know they have to commit that money to that player to get them to stay, it should be on the responsibility of the general manager to ensure that they find ways to build around that team

and make sure that they're good. I understand the record here. We're kind of going down a road here. We are, but it's worthwhile. I think Leaves fans right now are very happy with this. They were worried that Neelander could leave at some point. And then the last couple of weeks when all the insiders were reporting

that they were moving close. I think they understand the risks. These fans are smart. They know how hockey works. They understand the risk, but they wanted Nealander to stay. Maybe they would have been happy with a four or five year deal,

like a Matthews-type deal. I think everybody benefits from that. But I don't think anyone right now is upset about this. We're all predicting the future here. That's all. The irony is when they get Matthews for four or five years, the fans are like, ah, why couldn't you get them for eight?

And then you get Neelander for eight. You're like, ah, I really wish this was a four. four-year deal, right? Like, there's no. I wish these players would take all these guys three-year deals. No.

Yeah. These guys should all be taking two-year deals. I agree with you. Yes, but they don't. That's not it's not baked into the culture. The sport is get the security and then. I tried. I did the story on that last summer at the draft.

Yes. The awards guys there. I was bugging McDavid and McCar. I was like, why don't you guys take two-year deals? And they're like, I just don't want to have to move every couple of years. I don't want to think about this every couple of years. I just, I'm like, but you'd make so much more money.

And I think it was McCarra goes, I'm making a lot of money, man. I don't know, man. But also job security is important, right? And we're in different spots as journalists. I mean, if someone comes up to us and says, hey, here's $8 million per year, for eight years guaranteed, how many of us don't jump that back? I already did. You don't get that?

That's how Lab got to the athletic. He took an eight times eight. I got to go, guys. I got to talk to it. You need some representation. Okay, so Willie Neelander signs. It's the big deal. But one of the big stories that came out of the weekend last

involved Connor Bedard. And it's tough to see the brightest young light in the game extinguished at least temporarily. Let's first talk about the hit from Brendan Smith because I know you talked about it. You know, you get the Luke Richardson quote, and you get everything, you get all of the information. But fan bases are funny.

They tend to get real opinion. about hits. So how is the Chicago fan base feeling towards Brendan Smith after that hit on Connor Bedard? You know, I don't say, I think that the night that had happened, people were up in arms about it, but the more people watched it. I mean, nobody did anything wrong here. I mean, we all know that. Brendan Smith is tall. Connor Bedard is short. Bedard made a dangerous play through the middle. I mean,

he was a high risk, high reward kind of play. The hit was into the chest, his shoulder into the chest. But Smith is just so much bigger than Medard that it got him in the face too. It's just a really unfortunate play that happened, but Brendan Smith's not at fault here. I know Nick Folino did what he had to do and, you know, challenge him to a fight and that took care of it so guys aren't running around trying to cheat. Look, you injure a player, a team star, it's going to turn into a, you know, a bloodbath on the ice, and that's kind of what that game devolved into. But, you know, Boris Kachuk of the Black Hawk said afterward it was a dirty hit. You all saw it. I don't think he really believes that.

I don't think if he sees the replay, he's going to agree. Luke Richardson very quickly said, There's nothing wrong with this hit. It's just this sucks, but nothing wrong with the hit. And that's a guy who knows bad hits. He delivered a lot of them in his time as a player. It's just a lousy, crappy situation when a guy who's playing so well, who's really the only reason to watch the Chicago Blackhawks this year, we don't know how long he's going to miss.

Typically, it's like a month, six, six, seven weeks with a broken draw, but we don't know how severe it is yet. The Hawks haven't given a time till yet. They're waiting for the swelling to go down still. You know, if you're looking for good news, This is this has a thought I had yesterday. It's like, this is a good kind of injury. You know, jawbones heal.

It's not like it's a knee. It's not a concussion. It's not a soft tissue thing where he like ripped a hamstring or something. And, you know, you don't know how it's going to be the rest of his career. This is not going to be an issue once he comes back. He's going to wear a face shield. By next year, he won't even be thinking about it. This is the kind of, it's like Connor McDavid is a rookie with his collarbone.

It's not, it's not anything that's going to affect his career other than, you know, a couple of months here, which is a bummer. but, you know, I guess it could always be worse. Yeah, I'm really bummed at the fact that for however long, we're not going to talk about some cool highlight or some cool sound by the... What am I going to write about for six weeks? Good God. I was about to say, I saw the sports that interview you did in between the periods for flames and Blackhawks the other day and it just, I can tell that,

just seeing that injury, you just aged in a couple of days. I don't know how it's going to go for you. For the rest of it. Also, how's it going to go for the rest of the league, too? I get it. Mark's in the situation in the market, so he gets to cover him every day and cover the hawks every day. But for us talking about, you know, fine, we're going to talk about other players and there

are great players to talk about the national hockey league. But we're very much into the shiny new thing. And Connor Bardard is the shiny new thing. And it's going to suck with him gone for like a month. And I too also thought the hit was not dirty, but you're allowed to feel, you're allowed to feel sucky about it. you're allowed to feel upset about not being able to watch one of the best young players in the game play right now. And also, I'm really intrigued about that timeline because what if it's long enough where Chicago says,

I don't know if he's going to be available for the All Star game next month. Like already, you're looking at different markets that we're looking forward to having Connor Bidar. Like it looks as if he might miss the return Calgary Chicago game later on this month. I don't know if you guys remember this, but last year when he was playing in the Regina, of Pats. He had that incredible shootout goal that actually was at the Scotia Bank Saddle Doe. And I think at that time was like the largest crowd he said he had ever played in front of. Like there are markets like that and other venues they're going to miss out on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on Godard for the next little while.

There's a business out of weeks I got, people like, oh, I'm flying in from Australia this week to see Baddard play. And now he's not going to mean, people built vacations around the idea of seeing Connor Bedard play. I mean, this really sucks for a lot of people. It, that sounds like a feature. That's a feature. That's a feature. That's a feature. That's a feature story if I've ever seen one. If I've learned one, don't get us started. People don't read stories about other fans. Yeah. Don't get us started about feature stories.

I mean, to kind of pull the curtain back here, Mark and I literally worked on a game day feature that was supposed to run on Sunday involving Carter Bredard. And then Connor Bredard got injured. And that's, I think we're holding it until March 26 is the next time Calgary's in Chicago because he ain't going to be back all the time we're there in two weeks. Nope. So, yeah. Like, I mean, there's a domino effect that's was the, that plays not as a result. Where the real victims here, Ian, is what we're saying.

Yeah, that's it. I wonder, how do you think this impacts Badaard and the Calder Trophy race? And I bring it up, and Mark, you brought up in his rookie year, McDavid, I think it was Brandon Manning of the Flyers, who took him into the boards, and he was out. So McDavid was limited to 45 games

in his Calder Trophy in his rookie season, finished third in the Calder Trophy voting. Artemie Paner won the award. Yes, he did. Trivia time through either of you, and this is a totally random question. Yeah. Anyone else know who finished ahead of McDavid in the Calder Trophy race in the year in which McDavid finished third?

So Panarin won't it. It wasn't Ikel, was it? No, this will really surprise you. I'm not even going to go down the road of giving it. It's so much about that Calder race that you think I'd remember, but they all blur together at this point. Ghost bear. That's right.

Shane, Dustus bear. Really? Ghost bear, yeah. What? Yeah, I know. man the amount of time the amount of people that were so like people get so mad about some of these individual awards like the calder trophy like the people that were so mad that panerun won it when he was like 25 26 years old because he's come over from the khl they were so mad he shouldn't be eligible like what i guess you want your guys to win things but like what do you really get out of your like do you get an award too if your player on your team wins i never understood that no it's so worried about it it's like the same people who get mad about seeing players make contracts and not live up to them, right? Like they feel they're entitled to some of that money.

It's the same eight guys just getting mad. They just rotate through all the topics. All in my Twitter mentions at all times. I'm curious. I'll add this though for their Calder Trophy Race. Like if this means that, you know, I'd be still very surprised if Connor Bedard doesn't still end up winning it because of the season that he's had.

But does that mean like Brock Faber is the next guy? Because he's doing some incredible things in Minnesota, locking all those minutes. Yeah, the ice time is. wild. Like unbelievable. Like that amount of ice time. And don't forget, Marco Rossi's in there too. Faber's team in Minnesota. He's having a really nice year.

I mean, it all depends. If Bedard's back in six weeks, he's going to wind up with enough points and enough games that he's still going to win it. But if this drags on a couple of months, which, again, we don't have a time table yet. The Hawks have given us no timeline here. We don't know how severe, like, is it a partial fracture? Is it a clean

break? We don't know anything about this yet. If he misses a lot of time, he's not going to win the Calder, just like McDavid. didn't. And that's just, you know, it's life in the big leagues. Yeah. And if you're Bidar, you can take solace to the fact that McDavid didn't win rookie of the year because he was hurt. Crosby didn't win rookie of the year because Ovec could outshine him and Gretzky didn't win rookie of the year because they deemed him ineligible. So arguably three of the guys that are on the Mount Rushmore in hockey

history didn't win rookie of the year. So I think you'll be okay. And like you said, Las, this isn't a knee, a concussion, a, a, When he comes back, you're not going to be thinking, like next year in October, you're not going to be like, boy, I hope his jaw is good. Yeah, I mean, nobody wants to be drinking out of a straw for six weeks with your jaw wire. This is not a career affecting injury. That's the good news. No.

By the way, confirmed from Ian, if you've won the Calder Trophy, you will not end up on the games Mount Rushmore. You're a bum, confirmed. That's what you're saying, essentially. Did Barrett Jackman win the Calder Trophy one year? Yes, he did. There's been some interesting ones. Yes, he did.

You know what? I don't know why I said that. Tyler Myers won, Jeff Skinner one, Steve Mason one. Patrick Kane won. That's the last Chicago guy before Panera. Did Andrew Raycroft win it? Andrew Raycroft won the year before Alexander of Etchkin and the year after Barrett Jackman. Yeah.

What a run is. A lot of really interesting. Brian Barard, Chris Drew won. There's some really interesting names. I mean, there's a lot of guys who win. the Calder Trophy with like 40 points, right? Or, you know, mediocre goal-tending season. Like, it's not always like a spectacular rookie season that does this. You wind up getting a lot of guys that they just reach their ceiling faster, right? And like a guy like Brock Faber,

he's what, 22 years old. I mean, he played in college for a while. You know, he's like significantly older than Connor Bedard. It's just like the Artemi Panerran, you know, and McDavid race back in the day. Like, he's significantly older. theoretically, that's an advantage, but that's the rule. The rule is 26 and under. Yeah, and by the way, for a bonus episode coming up this week, we'll just have Julian reading off the list of Calder winners in the expansion era. There's nothing better. The best kind of podcasting is hosts Googling things podcasting. That's the best.

That's the absolute best. That's like 50% of my livelihood, just Googling things on site. And they'd be like, oh, yeah, I know what I'm talking about it. I know things. Barrett didn't win the rookie. I would do, I would generally do an episode of just getting people to guess like the Calder's. trophy winners from like 20, 23 to like ninth to like whatever first year. You might be doing that on the Blackhawks feeding about two or three weeks in this rate.

Before we get into the next topic here, I just, I literally just got an email from one of those sports books that are always trying to get press on the latest calderods. They still have Badard as a heavy, heavy favorite. Number two, Luke Hughes, then Brock Hughes. Yeah, he didn't bring him up at all in that discussion. He's not killing it in New Jersey. He's doing really well in New Jersey. You ever worry that, last, that like, you know, how the phone it's paying attention to you at all times?

Like, what are the odds that we just have that conversation and all of a sudden, boom, you get the email? I'm pretty sure that's how Facebook works. So, yeah, I'm no doubt that someone's listening at all time. They're just hearing me sing to myself walking around the house, making a turkey sandwich all day long. Like the targeted ads that we get on Instagram, all that stuff. I'll look at one shoe online and then all of a sudden I get two-barred ads. The worst, then you buy a shoe and you're still getting shoe ads and you can't just like tell the ads. I already bought the shoe.

I have 20 pairs already. I can't, I can't buy more. I bought a new bed three months ago. I'm still getting bed ads every single website I'm at for months. I'm not buying another bed. Damn. Anyway, subscribe to the athletic. I don't know.

What's the deal today? Yeah. Oh, man. All right. I'll tell you what. I want to have this conversation. I'm going to throw this out kind of in a poll format here. maybe get the listeners to weigh in on this too because we're going to start here's first week

kind of 2024 start of a new year and I want to take a little step back and I ask you to go back to last year at this time so go back to January of 2023 and if I had to ask you a year from January 2023 a year from now that either Winnipeg is going to be sitting essentially in first place overall in points percentage, that Vancouver would be in the president's trophy race, or that Philadelphia would be in a playoff spot in January of 2024.

Las, let me start with you. What's 2023 Laz surprised by the most here in 2024? Man, I just watched the Rockford Ice Hogs beat the Calgary Flames. Nothing in this league ever surprised me. Honest to God, like day to day, year to year,

decade to decade. This sport makes no sense. This league is asinine in all the best ways. Like, I would have been a little surprised, but I've been like, yeah, that tracks. I mean, we all thought Winnipeg was going to get gutted, right? They were going to let, you know, they were going to trade all their guys. Helibuck was going to go somewhere else. They were going to do all these things. And they're the best team in the league. Really? What, what? The flyers? We all laughed at the torterella hiring. And then, you know, they're going to be tanking. And then now they're in the play. Like, none of this makes sense. But this is what we love about hockey. is the unpredictable nature of it, right? Like, none of this stuff makes sense.

Every year there's a team or two like this that just comes out of nowhere. This is what I like. I love seeing stuff like this because, you know, there's a lot of sports where you know going into the season and what's going to happen. When you're watching baseball, you know, the Dodgers are going to win 105 games this year, right? You know that, you know, this year. I mean, look at all the money they're spending.

They better win 105 games. It might not translate to playoff success, but you know it'll translate to success in some. some way. Hockey don't know that. It's so random and unpredictable and, you know, a goalie gets hot or a goalie just falls off a cliff. Like, we see this all the time in the NHL and, you know, none of what you just said makes sense, Ian, which is why it's completely believable. I don't know. I think it's the timing with regards to what Ian brought up is very important for me with this question. Because at this time last year, if memory serves, Winnipeg was good. People forget. Winnipeg, that first

half of the season, they were a good team. So if you were to tell me that in a year from now, us being in 2023, that Winnipeg would still be really good, I would believe you. And I wouldn't think about the fact that they had that second half of the year collapse. Even Philadelphia, you know, we all thought that John Tortorella hire would just result in some hilarity. And it did to a certain extent. A lot of overtime losses. Right. But like John Tortorella, essentially what he's supposed to do is go to a team, coach the hell out of them. and find a way to make lemonade out of the lemons that he has. Like, we'd laugh it off, and we'd think like, okay, well, we'd laugh it off at the beginning,

but we'd think, okay, you know what John Troy was supposed to do is? The January thing is important because do you guys remember that first half of the season for the Vancouver Canucks last year? Do you remember how they started? Do you remember how it felt like every week there was something wrong with this team? J.T. Miller getting mad at his goalie. the way they handled Bruce Boudreau. Rick,

Bruce, there it is. There are fans in Vancouver right now who are looking at Connor Bedard, who are thinking he should have been ours. And their fans are going to feel that way. So if you want to tell me in January 2020, that the Vancouver Cadux would be really good and to the point where Quinn Hughes would be a North Trophy favorite, and we'd have a whole discussion about players on the team

who might miss out on the All-Star because of the votes, I would look at you crazy the most with that one, I think, considering what we had just seen with them a couple months earlier. Again, the timing is the most important thing with that question. But when you looked at that Vancouver team last year, it was like, why are they bad, right? I mean, it was loaded with talent. They had a great goaltender.

Like, it didn't make sense that they weren't good. So I feel like this is like a regression to the mean almost. Maybe they've gone a little far the other way, you know, the Kings of PDO and all. but like that's a good club with lots of good players on it. And we were wondering last year, again, just like Winnipeg, are they going to get rid of some guys? Are they going to trade Miller?

They did trade Horvett. And, you know, you look at it. But that was a good club with a lot of good players that was underachieving. I feel like them being good this year is more likely, more realistic than like, say, the Flyers. When you look at that lineup, you're like, oh, this is not a good team, right? But they're playing Torterola hockey. They get, they're in every single game.

That's what Tortorella does. Right. but I feel like with that Vancouver core they were underachieving for a while. Like this wasn't a situation where like they had gone through Travis Green. They had gone through Bruce Boudreau and now they're on Rick Talkin.

Jim Benning assembled this core and Jim Benning has now become a running joke in Vancouver because of how we assembled the core and how we traded for some of these pieces. This is not a team that had been dominant for years and then they had one year where it just fell off. This was a core that I think a lot of people were ready to give up on.

and now they're playing to their full potential. Like, you're right. Like this, people should have been wondering for a while why they weren't playing well, but it's something that people were wondering for years with this team. For me, it's Philadelphia though.

Like, I mean, come on. Like, we thought this. Remember last year they were just on the verge. They ended up changing out the general, they had a huge regime change, right?

Breyer came in. Keith Jones came in. Like, it was, it was a, not chaos. That's probably too strong of a word, but,

the feeling was they needed to kind of re-calibrate in Philadelphia. And they needed to, I never thought they would be competing for a playoff spot as early as this year. Like, no way. What a, to me, it's mind-blowing, mind-blowing to me. But you're right,

really good reminder on Winnipeg. They did come out of the gates pretty strong last year. Maybe that's the question, the answer changes if we go to like, you know, a different point of the year, right? Yeah, like last off-season. Hellebuck was gone.

If you're asking us from the off-season, like that's a completely different, change because the Vancouver Canucks did get a little bit better after Big Tocke became head coach. In Philadelphia, maybe you could still have them as the answer. But Winnipeg, look, I'm still surprised that they're as good as they are. I'll be quite honest with you because I thought this was a team that was going to commit to a rebuild. Not only did they not do that, they doubled down on Mark Schifling and Connor Hellebuck, and they're winning. That's another team in the same boat as Winnipeg, where a lot of people looked at their core and people were starting to give up on them. Remember,

they got rid of Blake Wheeler in the offseason. And now he's on that reason. I don't know how he's doing with the Rangers right now. But that was a guy who had the sea in that market for a long time. They took the sea off of him. And then he's gone. That's a team that I thought it was done in terms of believing in that because it seemed like they had the pieces to win. They just didn't go on any lengthy playoff runs.

They might be in for one this year. So Winnipeg, Philly, Vancouver. If the playoffs started today, they're all in the playoffs. and our pal, Sean McAdoo, down goes Brown, in his Monday kind of weekend wrap, said, you know, it's kind of that time of year,

it's halfway point of the season, we can start to look at some potential playoff matchups. Things are starting to kind of crystallize a little bit, or you can start to imagine some playoff matchups. So for the purposes of this podcast, I'm going to list off if the playoffs started today. I'm going to list off the eight matchups. You guys tell me you get a chance to cover or a,

You know what? Maybe not cover. I don't want you to cover. I want you to be there as a fan and enjoy this series, okay? I don't want to put more work on your table or on your plate. I want you to enjoy. So here are the eight series as they're currently constructed. You guys get to pick one.

You can attend all seven games. Here you go. Vancouver against Edmonton. The Rangers and the Islanders. Man, that's going to be fun. I wonder what last. I wonder which one Mark wants to go to. I'm legally required to

yeah. Dallas, Colorado, which kind of feels like it should be a Western Conference final, but it's a crucial match of final. Winnipeg, Minnesota, Toronto, Florida, we want,

we want Florida. We want, okay. Retribution. Boston, New Jersey. Carolina, Philadelphia. Oh, looks like Julian's not going on that trip. Yeah, I feel like we can skip those last two. And the last one is Vegas, L.A.

Vegas, L.A. We're getting pretty good, pretty good matchup. That's a sneaky good one. All right, Lazz. Everyone is saying you're going to take New York, New York. What do you take it? Look, I was 14 the last time there was an Islanders Rangers playoff series. I was at one of those games.

The Rangers bageled the Islanders six love, six love in those two games. It was a disaster. some of the darkest days of my childhood. It was bad stuff. But, I mean, it doesn't get much better than Islanders' Rangers in terms of hatred and all that. Like, yeah, I would be legally required to pick that. But honestly, the series that I would most want to watch, actually watch the hockey involved, that's Vancouver, Edmond's into me.

I feel like that's a great series with two cities that are constantly on the verge of collapse if something bad happens to them hockey-wise. Like just the sheer panic level for one team going down one-nothing in that series, would make it so much fun to be a part of and to be around. I do want to cover that. I don't know if I could sit and watch in the stands as a fan anymore. I want to be writing about that thing. I will volunteer to work and cover Vancouver Edmonton,

because the hockey will be beautiful. It'll be crazy, crazy crowds, easy travel. And it just, the storylines will write themselves because it will be Panic City, both ways. And remember early in the year. You can have your Battle of Alberta. I want Vancouver, Edmonton. Remember early.

in the year, it was Vancouver who arguably plunged Edmonton into an identity crisis. Yeah, right? With some beatdowns and some, you know, oh boy, that would be good. Julian, you get to go to any series. Maybe you want to be a keener like Laz and you want to actually work the series. I'm giving you the option to take it off and enjoy. So what are you taking?

Keener is a word. Keener. Keener is a word. It's a Canadian. It's a Canadian term. I thought it was just universal that way. I'm, Keener. a word. It's also, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I am going to Vancouver, Edmonton, but I'm showing up with my NHL hat and pulling my best Roblo impression because I don't need to be a fan of either team to enjoy that series. I can just sit there in the crowd. Edmonton's only three hours away from where I live, make the drive up and just be like,

I hope both teams have fun because I'm going to have a lot of fun watching those two teams go at it. But I will give an honorable mention to Toronto, Florida. Because we alluded to it with the we want Florida chance. There are a lot of Leaves fans with a lot of bad taste in their mouths after that postseason. You win a first round. You beat the demon in Tampa Bay only to stumble against Nick Cousins in the Florida Panthers. I think for a lot of people, I mean, there's a chance for revenge if you're a Leaves fan. If you're Florida and you get to double down on another beat down on Toronto, man, that's just going to few you going forward.

Something about Florida teams with Toronto just causes them pain. And it's cool to see that the Panthers went from this like Cinderella team last year to a team that could end up as a top three team of their division. Like it's cool to see them kind of progress, right? Like sometimes you'll see the the Cinderella team. They make it to the playoffs. They go on the run. Everyone's exhausted. The bottom falls out.

They miss the playoffs. Florida could change all that, not change all that, but they could do the opposite. And Sam Reinhardt could get himself paid in the process. So let me throw out a couple of other. I don't disagree. That would be a great series. Where are you going? Where are you going?

Let me throw out a couple of suggestions. So Winnipeg, Minnesota has gotten real spicy lately with Ryan Hartman, Cole Perfetti. What if I told you if we could arrange for Mike Rousseau to drop the puck in Winnipeg for one of the games, would that change your mind? Would you have, would you be like in like the Pote Mobile like in a blast enclosure? You'd have to be. I like at the end of the year we should do like every year we do a ranking of what athletic writer was most hated by another team's fan base.

I don't know if Russo's going to have competition. Like who else is in the running this year? Winnipeg fans are all over Russo. Oh man. What about when Chicago fans are all over me? Does that count? No, no. Yeah.

We start breaking. I thought of guys were hated by their own fan base. No, no. It's expected that our own fan base is, have problems with us. It's when you, it's when you light up, like it's when you light up another fan base that it's

the ultimate sort of, you know, you know, poor Max Boltman, who is the nicest guy. We don't have a lot of antagonistic writers. Max, Max got it from Ottawa fans over the Dylan Larkin, David Perron, you know, Matthew Joseph.

He got it. And he didn't even, he wasn't even overly opinionated. He got it. But no one's touching. Rousseau right now. Are we like listeners can help us out. Listeners help us out. Is there another athletic writer who took more heat from an opposing fan base than

Russo v. Winnipeg fans? This doesn't come close, but there was a time on another podcast I was on. We had done an episode talking about Lou Lamarillo's face, like the shaving policies that he's got with Allender's players. And my mentions were just littered with Islanders fans calling me a Toronto guy. who doesn't know anything for a week, which is hilarious. Islanders fans are, you know, they are, they are blunt. Yes.

Yes, yes, they are. They are very blunt and it doesn't matter. They also, I mean, I don't know if I'm going to get any trouble for saying this. Islanders fans have Little Brother's intro. I'm sorry. Oh, God, guys, they do. They absolutely do. It's just been that case.

I wrote a whole about a few of the Islanders Kane story series last year when I was covering that one about what it's like to be an Islander's fan. And, you know, it was the kind of column that if I had written in any other market, people would have been like so mad at me, like that you're making fun of us. And Islander fans are like, he understands. He's one of us. It is a unique fan culture. Like, you know, it is, I love, I love him to death.

They are a lot. They are a lot to deal with. But I, you know, it's, it's a great fan culture in a lot of ways. But that makes me, people got a lot when, uh, he wrote about the John Tavaris game, right? Didn't Leaves fans get mad at Arons? or that was kind of tame. Yeah, because, you know, Tavares got his thousandth point, right? And there was

great debate. And basically, Staple was like, hey, you don't know Islanders fans. Let them just be Islanders fans. Yeah, you're right. You know what? Good recall there, Julian. I think that one might be on the list, but I don't know. We'll ask Russo later this week. Yeah, Russo. Yeah, if he's got any competition. Let me ask you guys this, at the risk of taking us down another rabbit hole here. Can you sit down at an NHL game like a fan now?

I don't think I could do that anymore. Yes. I can, I can, here's a thing. I don't think I could do it in terms of, I'm writing leads in my head from Section 319. No, I think I'm a lot. I like the idea of going to a game and not, this sounds kind of weird to say,

but not having a rooting interest and just enjoying the game for what it is. One cool thing I've been able to do being in Calgary and being far away from home, whenever people come to visit me, I try to take that as the opportunity to say, okay, I'm going to take you to a Flames game. And knowing that, like, I don't cheer on the Flames, I don't cover the team.

I can never go to a Blackhawks game in the crowd. Are you kidding me? And, wait, and Julian, you sit with fans? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've done not before. I don't know. But, like, for me, it's like a guy who's new to the market and still trying to get to know, like, how Flames fans are

and, like, how people, you know, do at these games. Like, I thought it was a worthwhile experience. I sat in for a flames, Hurricanes game last year, and it went overtime. It was a really fun time. And I think I got, like, recognized once. Like, it's fine. I think it's totally cool. I always say people ask me about, you know, whenever I talk to, like, students or anything like that,

I tell them, like, look, you're going to lose your fandom, right? Like, I'm not an eye understand anymore. Like, it doesn't work that way. I have no emotional investment in any hockey. But I'm a bigger fan of the game than I've ever been. I watch more hockey than I've ever watched, and I watch it with more interest than I do. and I know all about all these teams. You know, I'm studying for shows like this.

And, you know, by watching some of these games, I never would have watched before. I love hockey more than I've ever loved hockey. And I grew up loving hockey. But I cannot root for a team. It just feels strange to me. And being in the stands, like I went, like, I've kind of cordoned off my New York Mets fandom,

like baseball. I've never covered baseball. So that, that fandom is kind of pure and clean still to me. And I can yell at the TV and stuff. But like, I went to a Mets game this past summer. And I felt strange just like cheering for, athletes because it's like, well, I know these they're just dudes, man, it's weird.

Like something about this job kind of makes it uncomfortable for me to be in the stands at the sporting event. I don't know what it is. Yeah. I hope I never lose that. I hope I never lose that because... You're young. You'll get old and jaded like us, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I feel that in some parts of my life about being jaded

and cynical, but like, one of the reasons why I feel I'm able to exist and just have the personality that I have is being a sports fan. Like, the York Jets cause me pain every year, but I know they're going to cause me pain every year. So when they do well, I'm happy about it. Manchester United used to be the greatest club in the world.

It's been a decade of darkness plus ever since Manchester City decided to come up. But I know when Manchester United does well, I can feel happy and overjoyed. I'm getting, I'm getting almost unnervingly lost in my Knicks fandom again, which nothing good has ever come from my next fandom. Those mid-90s teams are like some of my favorite teams of all time. And I am, I am getting swept up by this Knicks team. And I'm like, I'm like the Michael Scott gift. I'm just ready to get hurt again, man.

Dude, man, but that's it. Like, why, like I for me. Hockey in particular, that's, that's tough for me. I don't know. Okay, here's a question. Okay, sorry. Go ahead. No, let me ask you guys this question because it's actually,

this is a nice segue into the launch of the PWH. Yeah. And I'm one, like, so I went to the first Ottawa game, hosted Montreal. Uh, I covered it with a Haley Salvean. we kind of did a dual byline story. It was a phenomenal event. We'll talk about the start.

But now, how does that, like, could I go? I don't think I can. I mean, I covered, well, the point is I covered them, and I interviewed them. So I think that ship has sailed already. So I think it's over. You can't wear like an Ottawa shirt. Yeah.

But I could wear, could I wear, I think I could wear a PWHL sweatshirt or hat. No. or no, is that wrong? It's not a matter of right or wrong. It would feel weird. Julian's wearing an NHL hat. Yeah, like that's not. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Well, if you know, I think, is that Julian is a shill for Gary Bettman in the NHL. He always asked. Oh, my God. Don't do this. If anything, I'd be more of a show for, man, I don't even remember the previous commissioner's name. All that to say, I think,

Gilstein. Yeah, that's the name I was thinking of. I really was looking at this Wikipedia page the other day. I think you can go to hockey games and just enjoy the product for what it is and not try to and not try to come across as like a fan or celebrate like I think it's okay to like go to a game

and see a player do well and be like wow like you know seeing Nathan McKinnon live like that's incredible like I think that's I think that's okay to do but you're also right Mark like these guys are dudes and and they're people at the end of the day and we also don't know everything about them and they're what if they do you know that's part of it you start seeing behind

that's part of it yeah maybe I don't want to be rooting for people I don't know that have a lot of money and a lot of free time on their hands. Yeah, but I also think like the idea of going to a game, go to a sport that we cover and like, I think that's cool. But also maybe I have a unique perspective because like I was very late in my, I mean, it was in my early 20s, I guess, when I went to my first NHL game proper. So maybe for me it's like a very different experience to go to NHL games as just a neutral fan. Yeah, I feel like I was 32 when I got this, when I started covering the Hawks. So I feel like I had like half of a lifetime to be a fan. And now I get to have like, you know, the second half of being, you know, an impartial observer who just loves the game, but doesn't care who wins.

I guess that's how I look at it. Yeah. I do generally root for the least to lose in the first round because that's always funny. Yeah. I root for stories. Yeah, exactly. I root for stories. That's a story.

Whether I'm writing it or not, I root for a good story. Me too. Why do I feel like Laz and I for this conversation, we should have each have. had cigarettes and we'd be like, we're just, you know, we're all bitter reporters. We're like, don't worry, kid, someday you'll be like us. And I'm not, I don't want, I don't want it to come across like I'm some, like, I think Ian, you're the same way. We're not like, there's a lot of jaded curmudgins in this business.

Yeah, we're not. We're not bad. Yeah, we're not bad. Yeah, we're like, I still love my job. I love that I get to do this. I love being at games. I just feel, I would feel strange in sitting among the fans at an NHL game, I would be like, I don't want to clap.

I don't want to make a noise. I don't want to stand up. I just want to sit here quietly. You don't have to. You don't have to. I don't feel I have to. I think it's okay. Like, I think, especially in hockey,

I feel just, like my distance, my Canadian's fandom years ago. And I honestly, I think it's cool to just like watch a game and be completely relaxed and know that you don't have a dog in this fight. You could see other people lose their minds and cry

if their team doesn't do well or feel, see them experience the feeling of joy, which is cool for them, but you could just be cool the whole time and just not let your emotions go up and down. I think it's an enjoyable experience to do that. I'm obsessed with the idea of fandom. I did a story a few years ago on talking to the players in the NHL.

Like, do you still have your fandoms, whether it's in hockey or anything else? And do you think once you retire, you can go back to being a Red Wings fan or whatever, you know? And it's a weird thing. Because once you're in the NHL, can you really get wrapped up and, like what Bizanette is doing with the Leafs?

Like, I know a lot of it is schick. But like, can you do that? Can you just go back to meatball mode after you've been in the league? Like, I'm fascinated by the mentality of a fandom. It's just a weird obsession of mine. Yeah, no, no. It's, there's no right or wrong answer. I think as long as, especially if you're a reporter, as long as you are,

you can be passionate and objective, right? I think there's too many, you know what I mean? I think there's a lot of reporters who think that in order to be objective, you sort of have to remove an emotional element and that's the danger, right? You don't lose it. Maybe you, I think guys like Laz and I, we may have lost the fandom, but we haven't lost the passion.

I think that's a good way of it. That's a perfect way of putting it. I know you intended on talking about the P. Dube with that, but like, I mean, maybe it's because I currently live in a market that doesn't have a P-dub team, but like I'd be excited about it. I can understand for each of us.

Yeah. Like, I want them in Chicago. I think for, because we cover hockey and if the P-dub is really successful, it's totally possible. There's a world where we see a PWHL team in Chicago or Calgary. Then if it gets to a point where you have to cover those teams, then okay, you can't really be fans of those teams.

But I think if you're watching a game and you're taking in this new league and you're looking at all the new rules, Ian has it right. You're allowed to have some form of passion or be excited about how they're going about certain things. But I don't think you necessarily have to be a fanboy. I think there's a way to do it. Yeah. And it was remarkable.

So last week I went to the Ottawa game against Montreal. At the time, it set an attendance record for the largest ever crowd to watch a professional women's hockey game in North America. About 8,300 people came. That record didn't even last 100 hours because on the weekend. In Minnesota. Let me get the exact number here. 13-316 at Xcel Energy.

Again, it's Montreal in town. So two record-setting attendances in the first week. the television numbers have been really, really impressive. Just under a million people tuned in in Canada, 880,000 people tuned in. The streaming on the YouTube, as I look at this, they've got over 5 million impressions of the first five games, average just over 100,000 viewers per game.

Like, guys, I walked into a hotel. My daughter had a tournament on the weekend and we were away. And we walked into the hotel lobby just outside of Toronto. and into the hotel lobby, what's playing on the big screens? PWHL. And it was really, jarring isn't the right word,

but it was just, it was like, wow, like I think we've done it. I think we're here. Like, like, I guess my point is,

could you guys envision a better opening week for a league that was, you know, under some pressure, they didn't have the team nicknames and there was questions about where they were going to play?

Could you envision a better opening week for the PWHL? Well, I wish they were on TV of some sort here in the States. Like, Can you not get them? You should be able to get them on YouTube. I mean,

I know you're not YouTube. YouTube is available. Again, that's not TV to a lot of people, you know. Got you, got you, got you got you.

I mean, Ian just said the YouTube. So there's a whole generation of people. I didn't say the YouTube. Definitely did say the YouTube. Oh, there's no way. And if I did,

it was an accident. I wouldn't call it. It depends on. It is on, it on MSG. It is on locally in, like, in the Northeast. You can see it on MSSG.

on MSG network. That doesn't do me any good here in Chicago. I did watch it on YouTube. That's the only way you can watch it. But to get the biggest audience possible, you need to be on like real stream TV. So I'd like to have that. But it's hard. Look, not to be Debbie Downer here, but let's see what the attendance is a month from now, two months from now. That's going to be the real arbiter. Like new and exciting is always new and exciting. I really hope. And I think in a lot of, they chose these markets wisely. They're going to do well. They're going to get a lot. of fans at these games, probably not going to be 13,000 at every game in Minnesota. That's probably not realistic. But they're going to have a real presence. There's, this is,

there's, there's, there's finally, like the, you know, the, the, the, the leagues of the past were good quality hockey, but this is the first time where there seems to be a more widespread credibility to the league where everyone's kind of agreeing, this is what we've been waiting for. And I've heard of these people, and these are, these are people I've seen international games for years now. It's got star power. It's got, you know, TVs. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, in Canada behind it. This is great. And we all want this to succeed.

And we all wanted to expand to our cities. We have to be cautious about getting too over-excited because we need to see how long it lasts and see how consistent it is. But yeah, you cannot have had a better week. It's a week to start. This has been, I think, better than anyone possibly could have expected. Yeah, Mark's got it right. They got some viewers.

They got some good attendance numbers. It's a great start. I hope they're able to sustain it going forward. I think what will help, which is kind of weird, because we made a big deal about the fact that the jerseys look the way that they did and the team names are that they are. One thing that's going to help is when they eventually change them. And once new things pop up with that league and more merchandise is available for people to sell, that's going to get people excited all over again.

I think that's going to, I mean, I wasn't sure about it as an idea, but maybe that's the play. Maybe that's a way to help people. Yeah, I don't know. I guess that's what it is. But yeah, I think you have a good start. And I do like how accessible it is. And I do like the fact that it's one league and it's not a situation where you have two leagues. And some of the best players are split between both leagues and you don't know which league you should follow.

Like you having it in just one place where you're watching the best talent, I think that's that's a big reason why their success. Yeah. No terrific metrics. And like you said, Mark, we hope it continues. We'll see how these next few weeks play. Honestly, I think the fact that we have people covering it here. Yeah. I think we're like we're treating it like the real, the big deal that it actually is.

And the press does play a role in these things, right? If we lend our credibility to it, that helps. And it helps us because it gives us more people that are going to read our stuff. It's symbiotic. I'll tell you, I sat down, just a quick anecdote here, just as we wrap, I sat down to the press conference after Ottawa's first game and their head coach Carlo McLeod, who is just a amazing spokesperson, terrific interview.

And McLeod sits into her chair just so picture any press conference room that you would normally see a coach after the game. She sits down in there and she looks out and she's like, whoa. She's like, I can't believe this. So, you know, seven or eight television cameras. I think it was about 30, 25, 30 reporters. We're jammed in this room. And she's like, before I say anything. And her team just lost three to two, right?

So usually when a coach comes up to a podium, they've lost an overtime game, they're going to be down. She's like, can I just say something? This is amazing. And we need you to keep telling our stories. please, please keep coming back. And I just thought, what a great, like, anyway, it was fantastic. The whole thing has been, I think, run as well as it can be under the circumstances

to put this all together. And you said, Mark, that we're covering this like a real league, Haley Salvean is knocking this thing out of the park on television up here in Canada. Obviously, on the written side as well, just dynamite stuff from Haley. So it's going to be a lot of fun. And we have to invest in. storytelling around this league. So it's a great point that you make.

All right. We will leave it there. Why don't we take email questions for, why don't we actually only take email questions from Jets fans for Mike Russo? Because Russo is joining the show on Tuesday with Julian and I. And you never know. Maybe they got some questions for him.

I don't know if they'll have pressure marks at the end of them. Yeah. I just hope those are questions and not threats. The athletic hockey show at gmail.com is how you can reach us via email, voicemail, 8454-4-884-59. So yeah, we're looking forward to that one with my group show. Laz, this was a ton of fun, man. Thanks for hanging out with us here for the past hour.

Always, man. Always, man. This was great. Julian, as always, happy New Year to you, buddy. This was great. Happy New Year to you, my man. Yeah, this was great to return back to the Monday edition. of The Athletic Hockey Show. We want to thank everybody

for listening to us here on this Monday. And a reminder, you can follow us on YouTube. YouTube.com slash at the Athletic Hockey Show. Right now, get a one year's subscript to the Athletic for $2 a month when you visit athletic.com slash hockey show.