The Athletic Hockey Show - WJC: Canada’s lackluster start, USA unbeaten but not unscathed, players who have impressed, players who have disappointed, and more

Episode Date: December 30, 2023

On a brand new Prospect Series episode of The Athletic Hockey Show, Max Bultman is joined by Corey Pronman, Scott Wheeler, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters from Gothenburg, Sweden to give their thoughts on Team Canada’s lackluster performance so far, the potential loss of Matt Savoie due to injury, with Jagger Firkus added to the 25-man roster, an unbeaten, but not unscathed US team, and more. Plus, to close things out, the guys each choose one player they’ve been impressed by and one who has been disappointing through the round-robin.Subscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowGift a 1-year subscription to The Athletic for $19.99 or a 2-year subscription for $39.99 when you visit theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody. Max Bolton here for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show's Prospect Series. Joined today by our full compliment of on-the-ground reporters in Gothenburg, Sweden, the World Juniors, Corey Prondman, Scott Wheeler, and, of course, Flohockey's Chris Peters. It's been a busy start, guys, too. Super exciting tournament so far. Friday especially, great matchups. Canada falls to Sweden.

Scott, I know you were at that one, and I want to start there. What's your takeaway from that one and really on where Canada stands so far? It looks like they'll probably finish seconds in that group at this point. Yeah, I think the big takeaway is just how disjointed their lines have been up front. The big question mark for Canada coming into this tournament after losing two, really, two of their top four defensemen, or two of their projected top four defensemen and likely their number one defenseman in Tristan Luno. And then the goaltending situation was sort of, okay, is Canada going to be able to defend and get the stop? that they need to be a top team in this tournament.

Now, what is it? Less than a week later, you look at this roster and you think, okay, the patchwork defense that they've had is actually played fairly well. And Mathis Lousseau has been their best player in that. So it's been a struggle for them up front. They haven't had really a single line outside of that fourth line briefly that looked good in terms of Owen Allard, Owen Beck, and Nate Danielson. Otherwise, it's been a struggle for them.

Celebrini's been good, and he's got normally whoever he's playing with going. But the rest of that group, Jordan Dume hasn't been good enough. Matt Puaatra certainly hasn't been good enough. Matt Savoy hasn't been good enough. Connor Giki's had some moments of playmaking, but they've lacked some juice up front, and they need scoring. They need someone to step up and bury one. So that's the question mark now is, can they get,

lines together that work. And can they get Salabrini on the ice more often? Because that's been the common theme is him not maybe playing like you'd expect your best forward to play. And now with Savoy, seeming like he might be a little bit banged up. We'll see whether he continues in the tournament or not. I believe Alan Lutang told you,

Scott, earlier that it had a maintenance day. We're recording this on Saturday right now. But we're also hearing that Jagger Furk is the Moose Jaw Winger, who was one of the final cuts from selection camp, is on his way to join Team Canada. So we'll see what that means from Matt Savoy's prospect and this tournament. And with all due respect to Jagger-Fercus,

I think you much prefer Matt Savoy and the speed that he can bring to your lineup. Well, especially considering what Scott's talking about, you know, Jagger-Fercus can certainly score the puck, but if you're looking for offense here, Matt Savoy's the guy who really brings that element to you. Correct. I mean, there are other guys on this team who you thought would bring that element to you, like Dumay, like Poitra.

I mean, Fraser Mint is the game against you. ton opportunity, first line, first power play flank, and he's not really scoring a significant rate. So they need to find somebody on this team that can provide significant offense, both on the power play and an even strength. Scott, when you look at this team, do you see this as something that can be potentially solved by tinkering with the lines and trying to find some new chemistry or are we almost too deep, too close to the knockout play to do that? And it's kind of, it's either you have it or you don't here. Yeah, it's a little late in the process at this point. They're going to feel good about

themselves after Germany tomorrow. The expectation has to be that you go out and score five or six goals and some of those guys get a little bit back on track. But that's one game of chemistry with new lines. The lines that they iced in practice this morning, I attended Team Canada's practice this morning, not a single one of their four lines up front had played any game action to start a game prior in this tournament. They did have Minton, Celebrini, and Dumay together.

That line played one pre-tournament game together. and we're actually very good in that one pre-tournament game, at least in the front half of the game. So that's a line, I'm sure, with Minton as viewed as sort of the forechecking type that they hope can get Dume going. Celebrini's been consistently good for them, but they need something. And as Corey alluded to,

they just haven't really had much of anything. And they don't have the pieces. Like, there's just, the talent isn't there like we're used to. Some of the more talented players on the roster are players that coach Alan Lattang feels like he can't trust. Matthew Wood and Carson Rakoff come to mind in particular. They're both 18 years old.

They're both eligible returnees for next year's tournament. They're both one-dimensional scores in a lot of ways. Rakoff skates a little bit better than Matt Wood does, but Matt Wood's got a little bit more pedigree in terms of hockey Canada under his belt. And those two guys just aren't going to play in the top six, like I think many Canadian fans want them to because Latang doesn't feel like he can play them there. So it has to be Dumay.

It has to be Minton. It has to be Conor Dickey. It has to be Matt Plotra. If those guys don't step up, Canada's not going to sort of accomplish what they're hoping to here, which is winning gold medal. Having said all that, a lot of this concern obviously is coming out of getting shut out by a Sweden team that hasn't allowed a goal to anybody yet. And of course, the standards for Team Canada are much higher than for basically any other team in this tournament. But I do think it's fair to ask, like how much of this is Sweden's doing. And just that's how good the Swedish team has been at stifling other teams.

And through the round, Robin, right now, Canada actually does. does have more goals than Sweden does. And they will have a tough game against Finland and Canada will play Germany. I just, I don't think this is still a really good Canada team. They could have still, I think they have a really strong chance to win a gold medal. I mean, it's still Team Canada. It's a lot of really good players. But it's fair to say, you know, when we look at Team Canada, we're always calibrating

Team Canada based to the teams that we think of in previous years or what we think of team Canada should look like. And this doesn't look like what you think of Team Canada. as she looked like in terms of high-end junior players up and down the lineup. But they had a lot of chances against Hugo Havlin in that game. And if one or two of them go in, I think there's a different conversation. Full credit to the Swedish blue line and to Hugo Havlin. They've been tremendous.

Theo Lindstein, who was a late addition to that blue line, is playing inside their top four and has usurped Anton Johansson. Anton Johansson barely touched the ice last night just because of what they feel they have going with Winstein and Willander on that second pairing. They're legit 60th. And they've all played in the SHL. They've all played pro hockey. They're all big boys other than Sandine Pelica who plays with some physicality.

It's an impressive group on the back end for Sweden. Absolutely. Let's go to the U.S. now. And for all to talk about Canada here, I don't, the U.S. remains unbeaten. I don't know that they remain unscathed here because Chris Chekia put a serious scare into them on Friday. and while they did run it up on the Swiss, I don't think you can say this U.S. team is without concerns here after a few days of this tournament either.

Yeah, absolutely right. I mean, I think that this is a U.S. team where we haven't even seen close to the standard of what was expected from them. Even in an 11-3 win over Switzerland. And really, I thought they got exposed a bit more, and especially the defensive depth got exposed. Seamus Casey was out sick. And then, you know, they really had to lean more on Lane Hudson and Ryan Chesley, who played well but had to play, you know, Hudson played 26 minutes and Chesley played nearly 25 minutes. And then on top of that, you know, you really had a lot of tough shifts from the

San Renzel and Zeev Bouillon pairing and tough shifts from the Drew Fortescue and Eric Polkamp pairing, which was what was in place because Casey was out. So the defensive depth and the ability to, you know, to control the puck in their own zone and move pucks up the ice has not necessarily been there. And then you kind of run into these situations where you've got a lot of forwards that you expect to score. And the U.S. has really gotten the biggest contributions thus far from their third line with Frank Nazar, Isaac Howard, and Gavin Brindley. I mean, those guys have been the leading scores for this team.

You know, you got Rutgers McGroarkey still kind of coming back from injuries, certainly not 100 percent, not playing up to his standard either. You know, and I think even you look at the goaltending and they've been fine. You know, like I think Trey Augustine was also sick and not able to play in the last game, I think he probably would have played if he was healthy. But then Jacob Bauer comes through in a shootout against Chequia and stops six of seven shooters. And all of a sudden, you know, you feel like, okay, well, we can be a little more confident. But at the same time, you know, there, there were a lot of scary moments in that game against Chequia, which had a bigger, harder for checking team, which challenged

USA's smaller defensive group. So I think some of the questions that we had about this team remain, especially when it came to the blue line. I think there's against bigger, stronger, faster teams. There's going to be some discomfort. They're going to have a big test against Slovakia on Sunday. Slovaks have experience. They have talent and they've gotten the goaltending as well. The U.S. really had to work to find goals against Michael Harabal,

who was outstanding for Czechia in that game as well. So, you know, I think that this is a team that we expected to be highly productive and dominant in some of these earlier games. They haven't necessarily been that yet. And I think puck management is one of those things that continues to be a concern. It's something that we've talked a lot about with David Carl and post games about, you know, just protecting the puck and making smarter plays with it, not trying to do too much, which I think a team of this talent, they certainly have gotten caught with the puck holding it too long

and making poor decisions with it over the course of this game, over the course of this tournament so far. So certainly some areas to be cleaned up. I think when I watched the BC line, that being Will Smith in between Gay Perrault and Ryan Letter, I think we all came into this tournament thinking that they'll be very productive. They're going to be a big part of this USA team. And obviously tremendous success at the junior level with the NCDP. Then they go to Boston callers.

They're all having, you know, huge numbers as freshmen. But what I'm seeing from the end of this term, which is flashes of what they can do in some good, some, you know, especially in that game against check-out, when the pace gets quick and they got forcing some bad decisions, almost reminds me a little bit of the team in Ostrava in the Czech Republic, where you had really talented players like Alex Turcott and Cole Cawfield, Cam York, Trevor Zegrois, who, mind you, was very good as the tournament.

And Cali of there, and you thought, oh, these guys are so talented, they'll score a bunch, but it's different when you're 18 versus when you're 19th at this tournament. And that extra year of development in terms of what your body is at, in terms of how you understand how to play it at pace really matters. And I think you're kind of seeing with Smith, Leonard, and Perrault. Although I do think Leonard's been pretty consistently impressive about the tournament, but definitely with Smith and Perrault, is I think they are struggling to execute those high-end skill plays

that have been so routine to them for years. They're also not used to playing 13, 14 minutes a night. These are skill guys who need touches, and they're not getting those touches because they're a deep team up front. They've got four lines. I mean, certainly the fourth line hasn't maybe given you much offensively, but I feel like they know they can trust. that line with Perot and and and Smith if those guys aren't going suddenly you're not on the

ice you're not getting out there sort of every other shift at even strength but i'm just comparing them to like the direct way that like that naysar and brindley play and how effective that's been i mean you could argue that's been their most consistent line so far in this tournament and you know and i think go chase snuggered mcgrorty that line has maybe gotten the offense that you want in turns in the point totals but you when you the way they play they're at least having a little bit more puck possession. I think that, you know, I think with the Boston College line, I think we're still waiting for their good games.

I don't know if we're going to get their best games in this tournament. There's only a couple of games left. David Carl and the coaching staff seem to have, you know, clearly have their preferences in the other direction toward the naysar line towards the Goche line in terms of where they want to give their ice time. Yeah. So Scott alluded to, you know, when we were talking about Canada, they have a game against Germany that should give them a nice little get-right game before the knockout.

That's not necessarily the case for Team USA. They're going to get their toughest test yet in Slovakia on New Year's Eve. It's going to be for first place in the group, maybe not the highest stakes this year as it would be in other years where you're probably not really trying to pick a preference of if you're going to get potentially Canada or Sweden in the semifinal. But you want to win this game. And I wonder from each of the three of you, what is the biggest thing you're looking for from Team USA in kind of their final dress rehearsal before you can get eliminated? I mean, I would say the biggest thing is finally seeing a 60-minute game from them. where they have that consistency, where they can throw any line over the boards and really have that ability to generate.

And they're going to have a tougher time to do that against an Adam Guyon, who has been one of the best goaltenders in this tournament, and has also seen some of the most shots of any goalie so far and has looked really sharp. So you need to find a way to score against that guy. And then on top of that, you also need to find more ways to kind of stretch the depth of your defense and hope that you can get more consistent shifts out of your pairings that aren't Chesley and Hudson because, I mean, even Hudson and Chesley, I don't think have necessarily played to their own standard, and especially Hudson, who has such a high standard from how he's played in college. So I think you want to get those guys right.

You really, really need your first line of Gochie, Snuggaroo, and McGority to have kind of that breakout game. They've had moments. They've had good, good, you know, good looks. We had Snuggaroo, have it a first period hat trick against Switzerland. He scored a big goal in the game against Norway when Team USA was struggling to find the net a little bit more. And so, you know, of all the teams that played Norway, Team USA scored the fewest goals against them, including Switzerland who just beat them 6'2 today. So, you know, trying to make sure that you're getting that level of consistency heading into this stage of the tournament.

Because really, you know, like you said, it only gets harder from here. And I think that they absolutely want to win because every point matters because they'll do the resease. in the semifinals as well. I don't think they care if it's Canada or Sweden at that point. They just need to make sure that they have, you know, if they have any opportunity to have home ice advantage or be the home team, get the last change, different things like that,

they'll take any little advantage they can get. So I think they'll be battling for the three, full three points here. I thought Max said one thing. One thing? All right. Let me retake the whole thing. One thing.

Consistency from. No, no, no, no, no. If there's anything else that anybody has to add, I mean, certainly, do we think Trey Augustine's going to be available for that game? No idea. No idea. The latest on that was that they were getting a full day off today. They, you know, they did not have any media availability today.

They did not practice today. Those two guys did not come to the rink. They did not know. They wouldn't know until probably Sunday if they're going to be available. All right, guys. One more topic I want to get to here. before I let you go and enjoy the beautiful city of Gothenburg. Individual players here.

We've talked a lot about Canada in the U.S., but maybe if we could go around, start with Corey on this one. I'm looking for a player who has really impressed you at this tournament. Some of it maybe you didn't expect to play as well as they have or that's really exceeded expectations. One guy you thought you might see a little more of so far. Yeah. And when we were doing our preview of this tournament

and talked about who we think would be the best offensement, we mentioned Lane Hudson. We mentioned Axel Sandin Pelica. we mentioned, I think, Denton Metechuk maybe. I don't know if even mentioned any other names other than those three. And, you know, I think all those players have had good tournaments. Will it be in the conversation at the end? We'll see.

But one defenseman who was firmly in that conversation is Maxim Sturback. You know, if the tournament ended right now, he might get named the top defenseman of the tournament right now. He's been outstanding for Slovakia, playing a lot of minutes. And yes, he provides the mobility and the physicality. you're accustomed to seeing from Maxim Sturback, but he's bringing a lot of offense too,

which is kind of a weird prospect in that way, and that whenever he's played with his club team, whether it was back in Finland a couple of years ago or in the USHL and Sioux Falls, or now with Michigan State, he's never really been a big power play guy, a big offensive guy, but whenever you put that Slovakia jersey on him,

he just thinks now he's a power play skill guy, and he starts making plays all over the ice. And you've seen that here at the World Juniors where he's made, some really crisp passes. He's getting up into the attacks. I think he's a point for game right now as we record this. Very impressive all-round display by Maxim Sturback to Buffalo Sabre's second round pick. In terms of a player who hasn't really performed that well, that I was hoping to see more from going back to Canada, I think that would be Jordan Dume.

Jordan Dume has been on an absolutely torrid pace in the QMJHL for the last two seasons. Yes, the QMJL is not the same thing as the O HL and WHL, but it's still a very good lead. and scoring that league is not easy, especially to the degree that Dumei has scored at. You know, elite hockey sense. He's very skilled. And, you know, he was brought on to this team to be an offensive leader in this tournament,

and he had not come close to that. He's been invisible at even strength. His skating is, and a lack of, you know, skating speed has been really noticeable and how he can't really drive play. And that's been a guy, you know, we'll see, we still have the important games to go. So this is something that can,

anything we say here, might not look so good in about five days time. But that's been one guy who I was hoping to see a lot more from at this tournament. How about you, Scott? I've been really impressed. Well, stirback's an easy one, especially because that Slovak, that Slovak blue line is as thin it is as it is. This is an excellent team for Slovakia in net and up front,

but stirback on the back end has to carry a heavy load. They just don't have the depth. I actually think U.S., in terms of the conversation we were having earlier, the U.S. has a real opportunity to take advantage of Slovakia's defense in a way that other teams haven't just with the skill that the Americans have up front. But I'll go with Gavin Brinley. Brinley has sort of stirred the drink on virtually every team he's ever played on. So it's not a huge surprise. That's what he does. He's just a gamer. Shift after shift. He skates. He's a smaller player, but he gets up and under sticks. He wins battles. He gains inside body positioning. He goes and

gets pucks on the forecheck, he tracks back, and then he's got skill. He's got legitimate skill and playmaking feel on the puck as well. So he's been tremendous. Probably USA's best player, and Chris could comment on this too. Probably their best player in at least two of the four games I've, or two of the three games I've watched. So he's been, he's been impressive. He looks like he's got a legitimate shot, even at sort of five foot nine, five foot eight,

five foot nine and a half, whatever you want to label him. He looks like he's got a legitimate shot to be an NHL player at this point. Like that's the quality of the prospect that we're talking about. So he's been, he's been great. And then on the flip side, I'll probably go Matt Plotra in terms of just who's disappointed. Plotras had some, like you've seen, he's clearly got playmaking instincts as a passer. He's made a couple of really clever passes over the course of this tournament. He's found guys that I think his linemates sort of weren't expecting when his linemates weren't expecting to be found, that kind of thing.

a couple of times, but I have not seen a player at this level with that kind of pedigree, come back from the NHL and overhandle the puck and try to do too much like Matt Plotra has so far in this tournament. It's been tough to watch at times where he just won't let go of the puck. He's walked himself into a ton of turnovers. He's tried to do too much in traffic. He stick handled himself into pressure. It's been a bit of a tough look for him. Him and Matt Savoy, they, until practice today, when Savoy wasn't participating, have played the entire tournament together and they just haven't clicked for whatever reason. Poitra handling the puck as much as he has just hasn't worked well off of Savoy,

who likes to have the puck himself. It's been a tough look for a kid who obviously has played quite well and been a top nine center for one of the best teams in the NHL this year. So they need more out of, they need more out of Matt. I'm hoping they'll get it over the next few days because I know it'll be a huge disappointment for him in the Sabres. If he comes here and it's a bit of a letdown tournament for him, maybe it's just the expectations getting to a,

he's not a kid who was a first round pick, right? Like this isn't a kid who always had pedigree, and now suddenly he's expected to be the guy here, and it just hasn't looked like that for him. So he's got some sort of questions to answer, if you will, over these next few games. Well, you know, we'll see how the rest of the tournament goes,

but, I mean, it wouldn't be the first time. Like, I remember when Jake Fertan and Curtis Lizar were let go by their NHL teams and they had mediocre. or World Junior Tournaments. Just because you play in the big league, this means a guarantee you're going to have a good 10 days here. Yeah. Yeah.

And Plachar, I would have probably been one of my picks too. I mean, we've talked, we were even talking about it earlier today. But, you know, I'll start with the positive. I think, you know, one of the guys that I've, I've really liked in the tournament overall, you know, and just in what he's brought so far, you know, I think you can look at, you can look at several different guys.

but one one that really stood out to me early on here has actually been Otto Stenberg. Otto Stenberg has played very well for Sweden, had some big goals already in this tournament. I think that he's been a factor. He's been a threat beyond just scoring, you know, the fact that he kind of comes in a little maybe less heralded and also younger than the other guys that have been part of this team. I've really appreciated the way that he's played and in the minutes that he's gotten and the trust that they have in him as a young guy. player. So to see him come in and score the weight of he has with five points so far has been

very impressive on a team that is full of impressive players right now in Sweden. On the other side of things, you know, I really think that among the most disappointing starts to this entire tournament has been the play overall of Finland and losing to Germany, losing their first two games and just really, you know, struggling to get on track, there's a good chance they could lose three of their preliminary round games and find themselves in a three-way tie. If the last, the last, you know, be a score against Germany holds, which is not a comfortable place to be in if you're team Finland, and certainly if you're one of the perceived big four. And one of the players that I felt would come into this tournament and make a much bigger impact is Lenny Hamanaho, which I

know he's not a first round draft. He's not a he's not a super heralded guy, but the way that he's played this season in Liga, the way that he's played in the summer for the Finnish U20 team, he has one assist so far in this tournament through three games, has not made as big of an impact as I figured he would for this team. I think that with this finished team, they don't have Yolkim Kemmel. So you need guys to step up. They haven't necessarily had that happen. You know, they've had to shuffle their lines already. They've had to move things around. You know, the fact that a guy like Consta Heleneas, who's a draft eligible player, has been one of their better players, you know, guys like 19-year-old players like Haminajo should probably be a bigger

factor. And he hasn't been. So you could you could select a hundred slate of Finnish players from this tournament so far, but Haminajo is the guy that I probably had the highest expectations for that hasn't lived up to it yet. A common theme from all of us who've covered this tournament for years is that the pre-termine can lie. Yes. Finland had convincing wins over Slovakia and checking the pre-termine when they had almost their entire lineups that being Czechia and Slovakia in those games.

But it's different when the real game started and the opponents are trying every single shift. I do want to give a quick shout on. Corey, you said it. You don't think anyone mentioned Sturbach. I think Chris did mention Sturbach. I don't think he picked him, though. I think, but I think when we were talking about guys who could shake up our Hudson, Sandy Pelica, presumption. Chris, do you remember that? I think you did say Sturbach there as a... No, I'm going to say yes, because I want to have selective memory and say, yes, you are correct, Max. I was all over that one.

And if I'm wrong, I'm sure our list is will let me know. That's a great stuff, guys, from Furlanda Borg. I will let you get going now. And a big day of the tournament awaits tomorrow. Thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. You can catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey and on his podcast Talking Hockey Sense. For the rest of us at The Athletic, you could follow us on YouTube at YouTube.com at the athletic show. And there is still time, even though the Christmas holiday has passed, to give the gift of

the athletic for a one-year subscription at 1999 or a two-year subscription at $3999 when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. That's it for us. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you.