The Bald and the Beautiful with Trixie and Katya - A Cooler Full of Curry with Amy Doan

Episode Date: December 15, 2020

The ageless Amy “Shrinkle” Doan, founder of Sugarpill cosmetics, reminisces about starting an indie makeup line, blending business and passion, and unfortunate burrito incidents.  With their cruelty-free line celebrating its 10 year anniversary, Amy reveals the struggles of being taken seriously in the business world and paying her dues. Support Sugarpill cosmetics https://sugarpill.com/ To follow Amy Doan: @shrinkle To follow Trixie: @TrixieMattel To follow Katya: @Katya_Zamo To listen to our podcast on YouTube: http://bit.ly/TBATBYT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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652. Oh, still bald, still faggy. And we have somebody extremely beautiful here today. Extremely beautiful with a full head of hair. A full head of hair. Probably, honestly, one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my life. Just breathtaking every time. Yeah.

Whose impact on the beauty industry could not be underestimated. Nor overstated. Let me tell you, she doesn't wear panties and she's here to party. But it's in a fashion way, not a sex way. I wore my good underwear for you today. Oh, thank you. Underwear is outerwear. I saw you confidently get up in this chair and pull both legs up into it.

So she has underwear on. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, she's got underwear on. But she did take a shirt with the bathroom door open. To be fair, she wears underwear all the time. All the time. As clothing.

Yeah, yeah. Several pairs and several layers of underwear. Yes. An extremely followed woman, just an icon. Icon. Beauty icon. Amy Doan, otherwise known as Shrinkle, the CEO of Sugar Pill Cosmetics is here. Wow.

This is exciting. This is exciting. How in the world did you manage to carve any time out of your extremely busy schedule being a makeup mogul, an entrepreneur, and a business owner to come chat with us today? I just took the day off and sat at home being nervous about this all day. Oh, come on. It's just us. Yeah. Just us girls.

It's just us, Amy. Yeah. You don't do many podcasts, do you? This is my first one. Really? This is my first one. Really? This is my first one. Cool. I've been asked to be on other ones, but I'm always like making excuses and being shy.

But it was you guys, so I had to do it. Well, thank you so much. That is so funny. I met, you would think like your look, you literally look like the friendliest, brightest, warmest individual. And so it's so funny when I remember like oh right she's a little shy but you're not shy like i mean because i met you at drag con and um i think that it was uh when it comes to crossdressers she's not shy no no the first time i met you i think i jumped on you and

the first time i met you i think i kissed you yeah yeah not you're um not um stingy with the with affection um but but you're not uh you're a very humble, but you're a very humble person. You're a very humble person and quite shy when it comes to this kind of thing. I don't think of you this way, but you are like secretly extremely famous. Yeah. No, it's true. I mean, I remember- You don't talk about it, but we were at Dysel once.

Yeah. And that girl ran up to you and was like, are you Sherinkle? Yeah, all the time. And when we're out together, I remember when I was staying with you downtown, we'd go out and you know, to dinner or whatever and you'd get recognized more than me and I started to feel bad about myself. Oh, that's not true.

Oh my God, Trixie, what about the time you went to Disneyland and that girl started crying when we, the cars ride broke down and something happened. You thought you were in trouble because a girl came up to you, but then she burst into tears and then she gave us free passes to get the front line the line oh see there you go you better believe when i go to disney there's so many gays who work there i flash this baggy bald face as i'm like i will get us a free turkey leg today you know make it i don't even

need the turkey leg i just want it it's yeah it makes it all worth it in the end yeah and honestly this podcast is partly about beauty and you are one of the most like. Yeah, you are. You kind of live in drag. Yeah. You're in drag more than us. Oh, let me because I've been dying to get you to do like the kind of opposite where you like wear a short brown wig and a gray suit.

Gray suit. Don't you think it'd be great? I know. When are we going to have our makeover day? We've been talking about that for years. Make under. Yeah. Make under. So we're going to do a day styled? We've been talking about that for years. Make under. Yeah, make under.

We're going to do a day styled as us. We'll do the bald cap with like goth leisure. Yeah, but she looks so good bald. Let's do it. You got a nice head. When I met you, you had like white blonde hair. Like blonde blonde hair with bangs and like gold eyebrows. And then when I moved

to LA, you had had long long pink hair which was beautiful how often do you change your look oh god i feel like i've looked the same since high school like i still wear the same slips and 90s that i've had since high school and really yeah time still fits and would you believe it still fits but like your hair is i mean your hair it's like a it's a I would say high is it high maintenance the hair twos you do or no?

Oh I just try not to wash my hair too frequently so I'm able to keep a hair color for a very long time. Do you do tracks and extensions? No it's all real.

Just kidding. Those are also her eyelashes? Oh yeah. It's all real. It's magic. This is a safe space for fake hair. Yeah yeah yeah.

Well I mean it's real in the sense that it's there absolutely yeah without the tracks she is the bald and the beautiful yeah did you what did you look like in high school oh god um probably the same but messier okay i it was really hard to find cool makeup back then so it was all wet and wild and um yeah i think i look the same but with bad makeup but oh and shaved eyebrows. I had shaved eyebrows. I've seen older pictures of you. You were also a little more black, very distressed hair. Yeah.

Your hair was like. Yeah, I had like big, like Robert Smith hair. Oh, cool. Like a black cloud of hair. Oh, wow. Awesome. Yeah. I saw pictures of you from college.

Remember you were posting like a year and a half ago, maybe old pictures of you from high school and college. Oh yeah. I was, I found a bunch of my old photo albums and I posted like a whole bunch of throwbacks of all my embarrassing looks from the past few decades. Very thin brows at the time. And you said, I mean, I've, I've been following sugar pill for forever, at least a decade, way before I knew you. And you were saying like, basically products didn't exist at the time yeah it was really hard to find good makeup back then I remember um you had to wait once a year for Halloween and you'd go to the Halloween superstore and stock up on Halloween

makeup and it was like super greasy well you're the same age as me you remember this yeah um yeah so it was like all grease paints and everything smelled like crayons and clowns and sweat. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't, when I started doing drag or started to think about like getting good makeup, there was like MAC and I don't know that there was much more than that. But I mean, I was kind of, I'm not, I haven't been really in the loop makeup wise. Yeah, well, MAC was good, but I don't think they had crazy colors. Like if you wanted crazy colors, you had to get full on clown makeup. Yeah that's true. They had the pro stuff but that was like. It wasn't in

all the stores. Yeah I know. And at the time like a lot of those stores. You had to order Mac products over the phone. Oh my god. Yeah it was different. Have you ever ordered something over the phone? I have. No I haven't. I have. Oh yeah. Order stuff through a magazine. Oh my god I remember that You fill out the form

You send a check and you wait six to eight weeks for it to arrive Yes I remember the last time I did that I sent a check out for this like There was a compilation CD of goth and industrial Covers of Madonna songs it never came It never came And we still don't know What happened to it

So how old are you? I'm 40. I'm turning 41 soon. Wow. You truly could be 21. Ageless. Like defying age. Truly.

Also, you don't even really, I don't really strike, you strike me as otherworldly, like a fairy pixie kind of, I don't really think of you as human. I mean that in the best way. Oh, thank you. She doesn't see you as a human. Whenever you go to the bathroom,'m like you do that for how much makeup you wear and this is like invasive you don't wear much skin makeup like this is your real face too yeah i don't i don't wear foundation just concealer and must be nice meanwhile yeah over here back all over sandpaper

over sandpaper trowel over a shit barn i mean because you how long did it take because you're you have a really uh you have a mastery of this kind of like a very colorful dramatic eye and how long did that take to to um achieve when did the prostitution begin i think it only takes me like 20 or 30 minutes to do my face every morning. I'm so used to it. I've been wearing makeup and like full makeup and lashes every day since 1996. Holy shit. I've talked, I FaceTimed Amy from the office on a day where no one else is there and she's in makeup and hair and everything. Yeah.

To be alone at the office with the cats. Do you get, is it like a, I won't leave the house without panties. Is that kind of the thing? Like it's, is it essential? I'm just so used to it. Yeah. Well, with COVID lately, I've been so used to it. Yeah. Well, with COVID lately,

I've been, this year, I haven't been wearing as much makeup and I'm getting really, I'm getting used to going out without makeup. But I decided to get dressed for you guys today. Oh. I never get the sense though,

correct me if I'm wrong though, I never get the sense, with you, it seems like you want to, that it's a thing you enjoy doing. it's fun. Yeah, it's just part of my morning. I have to, I'm the face of this makeup company.

I have to wear all this, you know. No, it's part of my morning, like drinking coffee. Like it's just an enjoyable way to start the day. Yeah. That's great. A you moment, meditative. Yeah. Return to you.

A return to you, the Amy Doan story. Well, at the time, because I mean, honestly, if we talk about cosmetics in general, you were kind of the first independent makeup company, period. I mean, there was the L'Oreal's, the Maybelline's and the consumer, and there wasn't really anybody in between. Yeah. Yeah. When I first started, well, we launched in 2010, but I started working on it and it took us five years. So I started working on it in 2005 and it took forever because there was nobody else doing indie makeup lines. And so there was nobody to ask. There was no, like you could research it online. There wasn't much, like there wasn't much out there. So I think, yeah, I literally,

I, I think I went to the Kryolan store one day and I asked, the president happened to be there and I, and I just, and I, I told told her like I wanted to start my own makeup line I asked her if she had any advice and she was actually really nice about it um and she said fuck you get out of here no she was she was really nice and um yeah I ended up finding a lab that would help me but it was really hard back then because they they weren't used to like people like me starting businesses like they're used to dudes in suits. And so nobody took me seriously. I had to write to a lot of people.

I got ignored a lot. People didn't want to talk to me. A young woman of color dressed like a clown. Really. Yeah. So it took a really long time to get that started and to be taken seriously. How did you stick with it? Was there any moments where you thought about giving up?

Well, I stuck with it because it was the only job I knew. Like I've never had a real job before. So it was kind of like, okay, this is what I'm doing. And yeah, the first few years were really stressful. There were a lot of times where I feel like I felt like I had given birth to this monster and I didn't know how, like I have no business experience. Like I didn't go to school for business or marketing or anything like that so um yeah it was all trial and error and I made a lot of mistakes and I just had to stick it out and figure things out that's why it's fun hearing you talk about starting Trixie Cosmetics because you're oh my god I call Amy yes I call Amy being like

like either it's the best day of my life or like the why are we doing this? Literally, you know, and that's why I think of honestly, people like me are only following the fact that like once you did it, so many of us could do it. But like you did it before so many people. And I can't imagine everything was probably a struggle because PR didn't exist. Instagram didn't exist. There was no Instagram. It was like, there were like 10 YouTube, they were called beauty gurus at YouTube Beauty Gurus. And yeah, marketing was really hard. Like you'd have, oh, I would go to clubs and hand out samples. You're kidding.

Yeah, I went to a bunch of festivals and raves and I handed out postcards and little tiny sample jars. Because you used to be a raver kid, right? I was a party girl but that's how you started wearing all kinds of makeup and you were like there is no clown makeup please yeah right yeah i started dressing up in high school actually that started with um i was 16 and my um my sister went to blockbuster and she rented the movie priscilla queen of the desert and we had no idea what it was about but she liked the box so she brought it home which is how people used to rent movies yeah she just liked the picture on the box and i watched it and

i said oh my god are there really people out there like this like all like tribe yeah and i i just couldn't believe it because i grew up in milpitas which was a really small town and i i couldn't believe that there were people out there like this and i i knew that i had to find them someday and i was going to look like them someday and i wanted to be colorful and glittery and have makeup all the way up to my eyebrows and um you did that so you did that so Milpitas Milpitas it's near San Jose and San Francisco Milpitas Milpitas yeah Milpitas shout out to the people in Milpitas. How are you doing? Yeah, yeah. Hey, fam. Hey, fam. Northern. We're young. We're young and cool.

Northern California? Yeah. What a weird place. Really? When were you last there? Recently. Not recently. A few years ago.

It was a lot more word of mouth back then. I think I found out about Sugarpill a long time ago from, I think, probably word of mouth, maybe. I think my first product for me was like poison bomb maybe actually the first time i met you you said well the first thing you said to me was are you that girl from the internet and i said no it was in the parking lap behind rage oh hearts was there um you were there yeah i was too scared or she was too scared to say hi so i yeah okay so we we saw at Rage, and then afterwards we were waiting for you to come out,

and you never did, because I think you had an interview the next morning. I had Hey Queen the next morning. Yeah, and so we were leaving, and weren't we, we were walking down the sidewalk, and the way we were dressed, some guy came up to us. Yeah, no, we were walking down the street, and then we were with a bunch of friends, and we were all wearing pink, and I think some guy came up to us and said, you guys must be Trixie Mattel fans, he in the parking lot back then we're like what and then and that was you wasn't that was me yeah and then so we got a hot tip so we ran back there to say

hi and yeah I think the first thing you said to me was are you that girl from the internet and I said yeah and I was probably drunk yeah and then you said um you told me that you said you loved Goldilocks and Butter Cupcake those were the two colors that you said that you said you loved Goldilocks and Buttercupcake. Those were the two colors that you said that you had. I had your product since when the packaging was black. Remember? Oh, my God. Yeah. With the old English logo.

Yeah. The heart crest. The old English people came for you. So don't use our logo. So really, our friendship is because of hearts. Yeah. Wow. Hearts.

Thank you so much for that. Yeah. I just remember being shy. We were kind of hiding in the parking lot. And then I think hearts, you went up to him and said, my friends want to say hi. You were like, I got to go because everyone's mobbing you. And you're like, I have to wake up early. And you really didn't want to.

You were like, try to go. I was looking out for weirdos. Yeah. You know. Trying to stay away. And now you have one in your home. Yes. I find it interesting because as somebody who's maybe a little more like, I mean, most people now who sell makeup, they are this loud, obnoxious, like face of the

company. And I guess how much did the internet play a part in that company being possible? Because you got to make makeup and take pictures and not have to like answer a phone. Yeah. Sorry. Wait, was that a question? Yes. Like, like you couldn't have without the internet, you would have had to like answer a phone and like there how were you able to be like kind of shy and still run the company you know yeah I think that's why I became so shy because of the internet I got so used to hiding behind a computer all the time I'm not used to interacting with people as much so is that why you're so weird do you think of yourself as a shy person um sometimes i mean i'm not shy when i like someone

or like like you said with affection i'm not shy but i'm cross-dressers yeah what about public speaking oh yeah that's my worst nightmare yeah that's my worst nightmare like public speaking and um being on camera and what's the most difficult thing you have to do as part of your job as Sugar Pill? Oh. Making the Oh Honey palette is a complete mess. Working with this difficult guy here. The diva.

Yeah, I don't know what the most difficult part is. I'll have to get back to you on that. I remember we... She's great at everything. Yeah. Challenges? I'm not really sure what that is. I don't know. Oh, let's take a break. Yep.

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You're decent and good. I'm not. Paramount Plus. your eyeballs equals entertainment. Stream Paramount Plus from $6.99 a month. And we're back. So I remember, I think, you know, I was, I love, by the way, I love the Oh Honey palette. It is a staple.

Sis snapped. It is a staple. Sis snapped. It's a staple. And Sugar Pill, you have a lot of colors for me. I like dark, I don't like pastels. Four colors. Yeah, I'm less of the pixie and more the whore. Yeah, like the kind of basic whore shades. You're blacks, you're dark purple. You're gun metals, you're dark blue. You're hot, hot, madrassas. You know, you're blacks, you're like dark purple.

You're gun metals, you're dark red. You're hot, hot, madrassas. You're first scanners. And like, you know, do you guys have a red, do you have a red, red lipstick? Yeah, I've sent you all of our red lipsticks. Yeah, I have. I don't know about that.

Nurse? Yeah, we have Nurse. It's a liquid lipstick. Oh yeah, I love Nurse. That's all though. And we have a sparkly, oh no, nevermind. We sold out and discontinued it. But yeah. I love nurse. That's all though. And we have a spark. Oh no, nevermind.

We sold out and discontinued it, but yeah, you got it. You got a nice cranberry spice one. It's a, it's a, I forget what it's called. It's a strange love. You're talking about pumpkin spice.

Nope. It's, um, uh, is it petrol? Yeah. Petrol. Yeah.

You sent me that picture. You know who covets the pumpkin spice? Um, Vivio Hera. Oh really? Oh really? I haven't talked to Vivian forever. She told me I use it every single time I get in drag. picture of you wearing it love petrol you know who covets the pumpkin spice Fifi O'Hara oh really oh really I haven't talked to Fifi in forever she uses it

she told me I use it every single time I get in drag she was like if you have an extra eyeshadow of that I'll buy it from you oh when did you

talk to Fifi this was on tour like maybe over two years ago but she used it every day and it was she was at the end

of it and she was like I use it every day I know it's so funny I love that the funny thing about makeup

is that nowadays there's so many different types of makeup companies, so many different options. But you get that one thing and you will scrape the bottom of the barrel until it's like the last little particles left. A hundred percent. Nick's discontinued that white eyeliner and I spiraled. And now it's gone. It's permanently gone. Gone forever.

But why don't. Hey, I have an idea. Make some bitch. Maybe we are. You never know. It's permanently gone on forever. But why don't hey I have an idea make some bitch I have a question before you had sugar pill if I remember your story correctly you were Selling you sold makeup on eBay, right? Like cry. Yeah, I used to sell cryo and makeup on eBay Well, no cuz I started out I had like of my own clothing line like it was a DIY clothing line where everything was one of a kind and I was making it myself and since I was um I know what you do yeah I sell it to myself but I was working from home by myself and so to post it I would have to take

the picture take pictures of the clothes on myself and I would model everything myself and wear like crazy hair and makeup and um the makeup I was wearing was like it was Kryolan like clown makeup like the neon aqua colors and um yeah people started emailing me asking about the makeup so um I I became a official Kryolan retailer so I started selling Kryolan on eBay and interesting that inspired me to start Sugar Pill because when I ran out of Kryolan stuff to sell, I thought like, dude, it would be so cool to to make my own colors and and be able to create cool packaging and not have it smell like theater makeup. And yeah, so I just yeah, because I love Kryolan theater makeup is very utilitarian. Yeah. I still love those UV colors.

The UV pink blush. Oh, my God. Although I don't think it's technically skin safe so they tell you not to. Oh really? It's not like eye safe. I don't mind that. Me neither.

That's never stopped me. Does it look good? Great. Does it look good? Does it stay? Wonderful. Does it stay? You want to make more money?

Wear a suit. To me, pornography is literally watching Vanity, the drag queen Vanity, put on that UV pink blush. Like, oh my God. I love watching people put blush

on that's porn do you like you like a makeup tutorial um i like to it's weird because i'll watch it and i'll watch you put makeup on and i'll be like yeah oh my god it's not it's not sexual but it is very satisfying like oh like when people watch slime videos to me that's putting makeup on. It's a little relaxing. It's kind of the OG ASMR is people this close to you being like, I know I'm in a deal. Do you ever watch makeup tutorials? You got a favorite beauty influencer?

Who do you enjoy? Who do you hate? Trixie Mattel. This cool guy named Trixie I found. It must have been crazy for you back in the day when the YouTubers started using your makeup. Were you like, we were so excited. Like even like just anytime someone posted a video with our stuff,

you'd be like, Oh my God, you guys, we got another video. Like our website even had its own tab that said like YouTube videos. And we would post a thumbnail of every single YouTube video that our stuff was used in the ultimate fan. Yeah.

Like we had like, I think we had 20 videos on our page once and I could not believe it. I was like, there's 20 people. I mean, 20 YouTubers using our product. That's amazing. That's, I mean, it's pretty amazing. It's also like the American dream.

Like you saw a market with a huge hole and you're like, I guess I'll do it. Violet literally just said that to us on the last call. We were like, how'd you start doing drag? She was like, cause I wanted to do something that nobody else was doing cause nobody was doing it so i figured i guess i have to do it yeah i would work like 12 to 15 hours a day oh my god the first the

first year because it was just you yeah it was shipping yeah oh yeah i used to do all the shipping and and the customer service was just my personal email oh my my God. Did you ever ship your own merch? Are you fucking kidding me? I did. I had to one day, one day maybe I put one thing into an envelope, couldn't find postage and I quit. We had her at the cosmetics, at Trixie Cosmetics. She packed, how many orders?

I packed three orders and I was fired. She was like, I'm good. You got food up here? Yeah, I went to get pizza. Did you start with debt? Did you take a loan out? No, I just maxed out my credit cards. Oh really? Yeah, I'm good. You got food up here. Yeah. Yeah. I went to get pizza. Did you start with debt? Did you take a loan out? No, I just maxed out my credit cards. Oh really?

Yeah. I don't, I didn't take out my credit cards. Yeah. I maxed out my credit cards and I just started small. Wow. I wouldn't, I mean,

you're lucky, but I wouldn't say you're lucky. It's just like a great idea. You went for it. Truly the American dream. A hundred percent. Literally. The American dream.

Does your mom think you're Beyonce? My, my mom thinks I'm really cool now like for the first few years my parents like they had they didn't really understand what i was doing so they were really scared and i think up until i was 30 my dad was still asking me like when are you gonna dye your hair black and get a job when are you gonna work at a bank yeah and then um yeah they still didn't totally understand what i was doing and they would see pictures of me and get kind of scared. But what changed everything was my parents went to DragCon that year. Remember, was it like 2017 or 2018? My parents came to DragCon. They all blend together.

And so my mom, like, saw everything, like, that I do and how well I'm doing, and then she was like, oh, okay, you're going to be okay. She was like, these people are here for you? Yeah. Yeah, because your booth at drag con, you guys might as well be drag Queens. It's like, it's the mall and you guys are usually in the center.

Yeah. With this kind of you shape. It's the place. Beautiful setup. And that's when she, when your mom drove down with a cool, a cooler full of curry. Oh my God.

Yeah. When you were staying with, yeah. When Brian was living with me, my mom, like my mom loves you. And she, um,

she, she cooked, well, she brought down like a 30 pound. No was more than 30 pounds she brought like this huge 50 cooler yeah this giant cooler full of curry and um vietnamese sandwiches and then she was like oh give some to brian he looks skinny never saw any of those sandwiches yeah i sorry i ate them all but you love drag con yeah it's my favorite weekend of the year. It's like Christmas for you guys. Yeah.

Yeah. It is my favorite weekend of the year. I know you guys get really stressed out about it. But you have a. I love it. You have a like. Stress isn't. Yeah.

Stress is not even. It's more like. Oh. But you've got like a. I mean it's your. It's like your. Your holiday rush. You know.

And you don't have to worry about people crying. Oh. They just want to buy your awesome products. And that's it. They did cry. When we had Oh Honey, we didn't have that many at DragCon member. Those went really fast.

Oh yeah. We only brought like a limited, or I think at that point we were already sold out and we had reserved a certain amount for DragCon. For DragCon. Yeah. So we brought a few. They were crying.

Are you able to like, obviously I'm sure, you know, with like inventory and all that, all those numbers, are you able to like predict how much you should produce for like a particular launch? And are you able to kind of calculate that down to an exact science? You know, we usually just kind of guess based on past.

Yeah. Past launches. Yeah. I told Trixie not to ask me any smart questions tonight. So she's the beauty. She goes to the office. She feeds the beauty. Listen, she goes to the office, she feeds the cats. She takes pictures and she leaves.

No, it's so funny because Trixie always asks me business questions and I feel so dumb. I'm always like, hold on, let me text Irene. Irene's our office manager and she knows more about the numbers than me. So like, yeah, I'm always asking. Okay, well, I'll pivot to Turkey then.

Okay. So Turkey, I'm going to tell you this. Found in'll pivot to Turkey then. Okay. So Turkey. Found in a dumpster on Thanksgiving. Yes. Leaky butthole. Not anymore. Feline AIDS. No, he doesn't have a leaky butthole anymore. This is another American dream success story.

Get the vet. Feline AIDS, cataracts, leaky glands in the butthole. Eyes closed. A fixer-upper. No, in the butthole. Yeah. Eyes closed. A fixer-upper. No, we fixed his eyes too. But they were closed. They were closed. Yeah.

We're talking about the state that she started in. Yeah, yeah. This turkey in a dumpster. She, the trash in a treasure. Not trash, but I mean, well, yeah. And Amy gave that cat an extreme hangover. No, but she was a wild looking cat and now he is thriving. Yeah.

Yeah. It was thanksgiving five years ago irene was taking out the trash and she found like this little skinny orange cat and just looking for turkey was skinny yeah he yeah he's 19.9 pounds now but that's 20 that's 20 you tell turkey so yeah she brought him in and the plan was we're going to get him fixed up because he had a lot of problems and we were planning to adopt him out after we got him fixed up but we ended up falling in love and keeping him so he's awesome

and he lives in the office turkey the office cat what do you think he does at night when no one's there? crunches the numbers he's got to clean the linoleum in the bathroom ships out orders he's got a hard one in his mouth he's got to clean the linoleum in the bathroom ships out orders my god um so okay what's what's the future of sugar pill are you diversifying are you uh uh stores malls what's happening god the future of sugar I don't know. I feel like I'm the only business owner

who doesn't really have a business plan. Well, I kind of just started it as a hobby, so I never thought about where I wanted to be. Like when people say, where do you see yourself in five years? Like I just thought, well, this seems fun. I'll do this and see what happens.

And so I feel like I still kind of have that attitude. I feel like it's a great attitude to have, living the moment. A hundred percent. Yeah, I don't really have a goal. It's just until it stops being fun, I guess. I think that attitude. I feel like it's a great attitude to have. Live in the moment. A hundred percent. I don't really have a goal. It's just until it stops being fun, I guess. I think that's extremely healthy.

Yeah. And then you do water polo or something. Who's the, who's the pinnacle of beauty to you? Who's besides? You know that answer. Who's like the one that just stops your heart? You could stare at pictures for hours.

You know that answer. It's me. Thanks folks thank you besides me oh who's number two number two oh besides her yeah oh ron perlman about your love affair no no no tell him tell him no, no. Tell them about Ron Perlman. We're going to talk about Ron Perlman. Talk about your history with Ron Perlman. Oh, Ron Perlman. I am obsessed with Ron Perlman. Tell them who that is.

Oh, Ron Perlman. He's Hellboy, obviously. He played Hellboy. And yeah. Obviously. I didn't know who that was until you told me. Yeah, I've been in love with Ron Perlman since Hellboy came out in 2004. Okay.

And I finally got to meet him 10 years later on October 7th, 2014. Everybody at home, Google Ron Perlman. Yes, he is so hunky. He's in a lot of movies. Yeah. So he had come out with a book and he had a book signing at BookSoup and I waited in line for three hours to meet him and I dressed like a total slut. Like I, yeah, I was like.

So did you wear this? No, I was like a total slut like I yeah I was like did you wear yeah I was no I was like this is such a big night I'm gonna get super dressed up because for some reason I thought everyone else was super dressed up for Ron Perlman at book soup yeah I love you yeah yeah and I was the only person dressed up it was all dudes and like girls in baggy t-shirts and um but I stood out like when the whole time I was in line for three hours I was practicing in my head all these things I was gonna say to him that were like these smart things like, oh, I'm a really big fan of your acting and I really loved your role. Blah, blah, blah. I had all these things planned out. But when I got to the front, I just burst into tears and I just stood there crying.

And I think the only thing, the only thing I ended up saying to him was, you know what? The only thing I ended up saying to him was, you're even more amazing than I imagined. I think that's all I said to him. But yeah. Was he friendly when you were crying?

Oh my God. He was a dream. He was a thousand, a million thousand billion times better than, sweeter, better and sexier and cooler than i ever imagined like would you marry yes i would but yeah he was he was so nice to me like he saw me crying and he was trying to make me feel comfortable like he um she would have slapped you i swear to god i saw him once there was like a table between us and he told me to come behind the table and he put his arm around me and oh and then i asked if i could kiss him and i thought he was just gonna kiss me on the cheek but we

kissed on the mouth and i have like no no you have a picture i have a lot of pictures of the kiss my friend was sitting there like snapping pictures non-stop yeah it was amazing this happens a lot of our meet and greets where one person yeah somebody will film that's smart it's smart so during the meet and greet someone films it so they can relive the meet you know what get your money worth get your fucking money Lord knows I'm charging

enough for those get 10 cameras absolutely because I'm shaking you down for that meet and greet money you better get an HD video absolutely you have still camera

you got the video you got another angle I saw him at the Soho house once on sunset and I was like that's Ron Perlman and I was like if Amy was here right

now yeah the way she would have cannonballed yeah yeah I love it it's such a I don't want to say weird it's just a random like ultimate but then again I wrote a song about Jesse Eisenberg so people like who they like yeah I love Jodie Foster

that guy who tried to kill Ronald Reagan yeah who's a girl who would you want to look like oh who i want to look like goals hair goals body goals you got to change body you got to body snatch someone tomorrow for the rest of your life well you are my female female like beauty goals and i'm not just saying that but like when i was little i used to draw a lot i i had like a draw like i would draw ladies called well i would call them pretty ladies and they were always which sounds like a hair salon name like a very esl hair salon i was like five or six but yeah i would just draw stacks and stacks and stacks of pretty ladies and they always had

big blonde hair and they were wearing pink and they just looked like you and so the first time i saw you i was like oh my god that's a pretty lady like that's one of them like they're real amy used to come to do you ever do those do you ever do the RuPaul chocolate shop signing I never did no I did a couple of them

I wish I did Amy came to one of them and it was like back when you used to wear those blue contacts yeah and she'd be like I can only tell

where you're looking because of two little blue dots like floating now you can't now it's just black abyss I love it yeah it's just a black hole

I love having no eyes people are like where are your eyes I'm like who needs them who cares why do you need to know where I'm looking? Yeah, it was me and Di came and we waved at you and we didn't know if you saw us. And we're like, is he looking over here?

Where is he looking? That's a great makeup application. No one knows where you're looking. And she said, just follow the little blue dots. And we're like, what? That's funny. I love that. How many cats will you take in before you say that's enough?

Huh? How many cats will you take in? Oh, God, no. I've topped out. I have three at home and turkey at work. Three cats at home. Do you just go home and they just crawl all over your body? Yeah, pretty much.

I wake up covered in cats. And in the middle of the night, I have to go pee really bad or I'm sweating, but I can't move because I have so many cats on me. I mean, there's three. Yeah. There's three. Yeah. It's not like 20 pounds each.

Yeah, that's true. Would you believe that when i say i had she tasked me of all people with injecting her cow with insulin every single day let's tell that story where did you go oh yeah where would you go because i was yeah i must have been new york i did not go to new york drag con no no it was imats i think wasn't it it was some kind of convention i think it was i IMATS. I went to New York for a convention. Yeah, I think it was IMATS. And I was staying at your place. Yeah.

And the instructions. The instructions, which I do appreciate, but it was as if the instructions that she posted. It was for her mother. No, no, no. It was for a developmentally disabled, non-English speaking person with no motor skills at all. Like this is a needle. Yeah. And then four pictures of a needle.

It was like the most detailed. Like she doesn't know what a needle is. I just, I will say, I love you. You have many gifts. Oh, I wouldn't trust this person. No. No. I know.

But guess what? You did an amazing job. I even have it on video I did it every day Were you scared to stick the cat with a needle At first I was But then But then

Years later Couple years later I I did human growth hormone For like a For a week And then It's the same needle

Tiny needle They can't feel a thing You can't feel a thing It's like a little one inch Tiny The tiniest little needle You can't feel shit Do you do Have feel a thing it's like a little one inch tiny the tiniest little needle you can't feel shit do you do

have you done it hurts you just you get the cat shots too oh oh human girl pomo yeah did it make you strong um

I only did it for a week did it make you strong did it do anything I thought women women do it for like skin hair and nails right or like it's

the effects can be are negligible it just depends HGH it makes your skull grow, right? No. I mean, it's usually done in concert with like a hormone cycle, like steroids. In concert?

Like at a Celine Dion concert? I'm over. Okay, when she gets to I Drove All Night, I'm doing the HGH. Wait till the encore to start the cycle of steroids. Oh my God. But it's like, I was like so worried because i was like how does this cat not feel it but it's the tiniest little needle and you just grab their scruff cats are very rough with each other notice no you do while he's eating they don't know shit yeah you feed him and then you grab the back of his did you feel the pressures on the like i hope this would never happen but

you're like what if i kill this cat well because i was like it's such a small amount of insulin and it's such a small needle and i was like like, I think it needs more, but you don't want to do that. And you're like, did it, did any even get in there? It's hard to tell. Plus I'm like, am I a doctor? Yeah. I think I'm a doctor now. Yeah.

I should start seeing human clients. Yeah. The, um, but the, the thing when you have to hide the pill in the food, I hate that. Oh, the pill pocket thingy. Yeah. Cause then it's just like, eat the fucking, I mean, it's hard. You want to just throw it in their mouth. Let's take a break. Oh, let's take a break. When your celebration of life is prepaid in advance, it becomes a gift from you to your family later because no one should have to plan for a loss while they're experiencing one. Paying in advance protects your loved ones and gives you the peace of mind you deserve.

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Well, I want to say something. What is interesting about your company, and I think about a lot of independent makeup companies and perhaps like other independent companies in general. It seems like you guys are held to a standard of ethical conduct that is more intense than politicians. And you far exceed, you exceed the expectations of like being transparent being ethical in your practices and you know in being like cruelty free and all this stuff but I'm like I wish that the political you know the politicians in America had to rise to even half of the the standards that you guys have to it's it's pretty crazy yeah do you feel pressure um I don't know I feel like because I'm so shy I don't really get in that much trouble like I feel like every I'm so shy, I don't really get in that much trouble. Like I feel like every other, like everyone else in the internet is always.

Controversy or whatever. Yeah. Just kind of quietly watching. Yeah. Are you surprised? I mean, it's the amount of like. I think people like you, like people like the manic panics and the sugar pills of the world who were vegan way before everyone else. They'll, I think a lot of times people get no credit for that retroactively

that like you weren't vegan when it was necessary. Vegan when it was like a choice, it was a conscious choice. Totally. Yeah. So like the contributions

that you make go unnoticed and then like, let's just say, I think like you don't know what everyone, who everyone at L'Oreal voted for, but you'll buy a L'Oreal mascara versus like independent.

It's, it's this really intense. It's a very intense level of scrutiny. Yeah. Which I think is, I think the word is disproportionate. Yeah. And also you're,

I mean, I feel like you're, you are, you are seen or you're perceived to be available perhaps, or like reachable rather than like the president of L'Oreal, who the fuck even knows who that is. You know, when you DM sugar pill,

it does go straight to you. Amy responds to every message it is a little wacky especially for you guys because you guys were kind of pre-social media yeah you used to just make products and that's it and people bought them we used to advertise on myspace i would send out myspace bulletins wow and i had a personal blog too did you were myspace famous, right? I guess. Like Farrah Moan? Huh?

Like Farrah, wasn't Farrah really famous? No, I don't think I was at that level. I mean, I had a lot of followers, but I don't really- Did Sugar Pearl have a music? Did you have a song that played on your MySpace page? I, my personal MySpace page, I think it was the, it was Katy Perry, I kissed a girl song.

Yeah, that was like when it first came out. Just gay from day one. Yeah. Always trying to Perry, I kissed a girl song. Yeah. That was like when it first came out. Just gay from day one. Always trying to find new ways to make things gay. Remember, I mean, I'm curious, remember MySpace?

It was such an offense to have music play without the permission of the visitor. And we all did it. I did not. I think my song was. I hated when they played the music. I think it was young folks. I don't care about the young folks. I think it was that. Hipster. Do you about the young folks. I think it was that.

Hipster. Do you have the top eight or top ten or whatever? Oh, yeah. I used to have to. Well, I had like this code that would give me a top 16. And I would have to rotate them every day so that people wouldn't get mad. Yeah, no particular order. I would have to change the order because people would always put their favorite people first.

And then it gets least favorite as it goes down. And so, yeah, I would have to rotate it. Oh to rotate it oh fucking crap she does care about the ethics yeah ethical she doesn't want her top 16 to be mad yeah was tom in there no fuck that bitch did you even have my space i did you did when i was at the Russian treehouse. And I remember I was I have a clear picture of arranging my top eight while the plumber's on the treadmill at midnight after cooking salmon in the toaster oven downstairs and I saw a rat scurry

across my living room. And I was like, this top eight is so weird. I didn't have any famous top eights. I was in high school, so I think everybody was actually middle schoolers or whatever. I had a drag show,

so all of my cast was in it. So that was easy. You were promoting a drag show on MySpace? Yeah. Was drag on MySpace? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Is that ignorant?

I didn't even know that. Are you out of your mind? Drag did exist before 2008. I did know that, but I guess I did. I thought MySpace was mostly bands, right? No, it was everybody. It was?

It was everybody. I'm just so young. I didn't have Facebook. Well, that was when Facebook was just for college students. And I was not in college. Well. When did you start drag? What year?

Just a couple years ago. No, 2008, January 2008. Okay. That's when I first put on a wig. All right, 2006, I think. But I wasn't working until, no uh 2008 january 2008 okay that's when i first like put on a wig all right 2006 i think but i wasn't like working until like i wasn't 21 until like probably two years after that by the time i did drag like instagram was happening so like i remember working in clubs the first time and posting the flyer on like facebook and instagram yeah do you i mean do you feel straight like when

you get when you get um uh stopped on the street you're always so gracious oh am i yeah and we're gonna hold you to that and now everybody who hears this is gonna expect to hug yeah that's nice do you ever feel like um do you ever do you like taking pictures with people and yeah i think it's fun well i think the worst one was oh one time the only bad time i ever had was i went to pie hole and i couldn't wait till i got home to eat it and so i started eating it on the street while i was walking home well because i used to live right around the corner from pie hole so yeah i was eating pie while walking home and it was at night and it was empty and so i thought well whatever and then um

this girl came up and asked if she could take a picture and i said well um hold on let me finish chewing and then she didn't wait and then she took a selfie. But she was just excited. Have you ever said no to the picture and they take it anyway? Mama. It's zero to 60 for me. That's going to be when I go to prison. Why did you kill him? Because I told him no pictures and he took it anyway.

Yeah. It's, yeah. I was crossing Halstead across from Roscoe's and this guy was jaywalking. And he's like, oh, it's a night I wonder. And he's like, can I have a picture? And I go, we're, I was like, not right now. And we're literally jaywalking to get to an uber and he took it anyway and i remember the impulse was to grab the phone and smash i was like don't do it don't do it girl it's not worth it i did it but uh i yeah why even ask if you're gonna take it anyway well

i think i don't know who said it somebody said it might have been i don't know who they said it takes as much effort it takes more effort to decline it than to just take it well do you remember when i said no to that can you say happy birthday to my friend sarah and i said no i gotta go inside i was doing build new york and i was signing stuff and i was like i gotta go in and then it was on the internet people were like the person and the person goes okay thank you and everyone's like i can't believe she didn't say happy birthday to sarah so i'm like a year later on tour i was like happy birthday sarah oh my god i but there's a you know what i have everything was like i don't want to and i'm not going to and you can't make me let me tell my inner violet

yeah that's it it's like this is about free will. And I will not do it. It's the principle. So if you see Amy at the pie hole and she's eating. It doesn't matter if she's got crumbs all over her face with a mouthful of food. And you haven't seen her eat either. She rubs the pie all over. She's covered in food. One time someone took a picture of me choking on a burrito. Oh, this is a separate story from Kim loves that story of me eating at Chipotle.

Okay. I have two different burrito stories. Okay. that story of me eating at chipotle okay i have two different burrito stories okay um one time i i had just moved to la and i was eating at the chipotle with like the big glass walls and i was sitting right by the window and i was wearing no makeup and i don't know if i was wearing my pajamas or well i didn't look good but i was eating a burrito by the window and then this car pulls up window rolls down and then i see a flash and i was like what the and then and then this car pulls up window rolls down and then i see a flash and i was like what the and then and then like 30 minutes later i go on instagram and i check my tagged photos and

someone had posted a picture of me like mid-chew like holding up a burrito to my face that's some tom cruise paparazzi shit 100 percent yeah it was like 1992 did you look crazy yeah i did and so kim saved the photo and he like shows it to everybody yeah and my second burrito story was i was at um it was at the makeup show and uh oh yeah i was in the food court eating a burrito and then i started choking on the rice and like no one asked me if this girl came up and she didn't ask me if i was okay she asked you yeah she was like can we take a picture and i was like and i couldn't even answer and she just stood there patiently and waited like wait for you to choke she was like she said if you survive

this i'm getting the picture yeah but i'm not gonna heimlich you but yeah i mean i took the picture and you are so gracious i gotta keep you away from burritos yeah no more burritos for you if you guys listen if you want to follow am, listen, if you want to follow Amy, you can, do you want to let her, I mean, I love your Instagram because you just, every day, your looks are just, oh. It's very inspiring. Very inspiring, inspiring to the beauty community.

Where can people find you and purchase products? Oh, my Instagram is shrinkle and you can find my products at sugarpill.com. And why don't you please, listeners, enjoy the many wonderful products at Sugar Pill and youcom and why don't you please listeners enjoy the the many wonderful products at sugarpill and you will be supporting a small business a small woman of color owned business that's right the true and good american way 100 now let the music play bye you