The Bechdel Cast - A League of Their Own with Julia Claire

Episode Date: September 21, 2017

Jamie and Caitlin invite guest Julia Claire to talk about A League of Their Own! There's no crying on the Bechdel Cast! (This episode contains spoilers)Follow @ohjuliatweets on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project.

All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister? Or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller

from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, They're just dreams. Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdelcast. Hi and welcome to the Bechdelcast. My name's Caitlin. My name's Jamie.

And we're here to talk about, as we always are, the portrayal of women in movies. It's fun. It's the theme of the podcast. It's the theme of the podcast. You love it. We love it. You love women. You love movies. And we're doing, you're welcome. And you're welcome. We're Feminist Icons. Right. Yeah. I think that that's, I'm going to say that at the top of my brain. Make it till you make it, baby. Yeah, we were inspired by the Bechdel test, which requires that a movie has two characters. They're ladies. They have names. They talk to each other and they're not talking about men.

That's the Bechdel test. It has its limitations. It's what we use as a yardstick. Yeah. For a larger discourse. The Bechdel test is like a yard has yardstick. And then the discussion of women in movies is a whole mile. No. It's just like the Bechdel test is one yard of that mile.

I'm getting really mathematical here. How many yards is in a mile i feel like we're that's no that's you can't do that yeah you can because well there's five why would you there's metric and no yards is not metric meter is metric yard is three feet it's totally fine we should listen to a math but. But there are about 1,600 meters in a mile. I know this because I ran track. Amazing news. Oh, I ran track in eighth grade. And I found a picture recently of me and my coach, who was within two years of the picture

where he was, like, touching my arm, was arrested for perverted deeds. Hey. With the swim team. Not even his team. Ah, jeez. I know. My high school soccer coach was arrested for stealing a deer from another person's deer farm so that he could have it for his own deer farm.

Well, your trail is really weird. Yeah. I grew up in a really stupid place. Yeah. I saw that. What was the name of that street? Oh, Dry Hollow Road. Yeah.

Yeah. I took a picture of a road called Dry Hollow Road, and I said, so nice of them to name this road after my vagina. Great tweet. Thank you. Very good tweet. A great tweet. Well, now we've debriefed on our tweets. Yes.

Let's get into the podcast stuff. Sure. We have a guest. I'm so excited. She's my best friend in the whole world. She's a comedian. She's a writer. She's a writer. She's been in the Bridgetown Comedy Festival.

She lives in New York City where we're recording right now, we should say, because this is one of two and this is the first one that's going to come out. Yes. We're recording with Leif. And we're having the best time. We're having the best... I'm like... It's Julia Clare.

She's here. Julia! Hello! She's here. Hi. So excited to be here. Freaking out. Thank you for coming.

Thank you so much. I've been thinking since like what? Like April? It feels like longer. It's disgusting. I can't believe we're in this. This always happens anytime we're actually in the same room because we have a long distance romance, Jamie and I.

We talk every single day. We talk all day every day pretty much. And I think at this point more of our friendship has been long distance than not, which is wild. Which is so weird because our friendship started when we were living not only on the same street in cambridge on the same block yeah it was just why and we didn't know each we didn't know each other then before so just like we became friends i passed her old apartment last night a good place you came to my apartment and brought me gatorade that time my My face got all puffy. I sure did.

Big. Your face was so big. It was. My face was really big. Big face Jamie. And Julia came from a softball game. Yes. And brought me Gatorade.

That's true. Boston Comedy Softball. Perfect dovetail. Oh, I was on that league. Yeah, you were. Yeah. Did we play at the same time? No, you were. I was an OG baby. Really? I wasn't, no. I was like, you at the same time? No, you were. I was an OG baby. Really?

I wasn't, no. I was like, you're a founding member? No, not at all. Caitlin, it's really, you actually left Boston like three weeks after I started doing comedy. Right, yeah. We didn't really overlap. But I came to your like going away thing, I remember. I didn't.

Thank you. I didn't. I didn't care. I didn't care. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I don't know what I was doing. Maybe I did. You're a party gal, so you're like, ugh, party care i didn't care i'm kidding i'm kidding i don't know what i was doing maybe maybe you're not a party gal so you're like i don't i don't attend parties generally but i i've been trying you're getting better i'm doing a better job yeah no but bringing it back

to softball yes and baseball and the movie we're talking about today a league of their own hell yeah yeah when did you first see this movie i first saw this movie probably when i was like seven it's like six or seven that explains so much that you saw this movie that young it was first of all yeah i saw it for the first time pretty young and then i wanted to keep watching it and so pretty much on every time i would get invited to a sleepover, I would demand that this movie be played. That is Pete, Julia, Claire. But I actually hadn't seen it for over 10 years until I watched it today. Oh, well, you're welcome that we gave you an opportunity to rewatch this movie.

Yeah, it was very influential. And also, I realized there was so much that I didn't understand when I was first watching it when I was little. Like, there's so much in it that's just above board for children. But it's a family-friendly movie. It is. It's one of those movies that's on tv all the time all the time yeah it's always on yeah just like me with my comedy there is and there goes another one there's another those hot riffs a bomb yeah yeah

dropped a no that i meant that in a good way oh i'm tired how did you first see this movie uh i think college. I was a bit older. And then I think I only saw it that once, and then I rewatched it twice before coming here to record this episode. Wow. I saw it in, I want to say, late elementary school, middle school, and I was like, hmm, this is kind of boring.

And then I saw it yesterday, and I said, hmm, this is kind of boring. And then I saw it yesterday and I said, this is kind of boring. Yeah, you're not a huge fan of this movie. Okay, my problem with A League of Their Own is not that women are boring. It's that baseball is boring. I can't argue with that. Some women are boring. And that's their choice. Didn't you watch The Sandlot a lot?

Or was that... I mean, it was on a lot, but I didn't... I don't like sports. I loved that movie, too. I was a huge fan i mean it's if the climax of the movie is a baseball game it's not gonna be my favorite movie sure i want it i want to leave their own if we did a league of their own reboot with basketball oh i want a soccer i want a basketball league of their own. That's my proposal. I'm all about soccer. Give me a soccer movie.

You like soccer movies? Well, I don't like soccer movies per se. But, well, she's the man. Bend it like Beckham. I like Beckham. But also, bend it like Beckham is... Well, I don't like soccer movies. I like soccer as a sport, and I'm saying there should be better soccer movies

I would take a soccer movie over a baseball movie I would take a basketball movie over almost any movie Space Jam for women a bit of Space Jam why is Lola Bunny so hot

yes and that's maybe for another time but she is so hot. Yeah, she's so sexualized. It's so weird. Everything about that character is just like, oh, she fucks. And now we know. Lola Bunny fucks.

When she's not on the court, she's fucking. In a very heteronormative way. Well, that's just par for the course for bunnies. Bunnies are fucking all the time oh that's true with big tits they don't do that to bugs bunny bugs bunny is a little yeah they're not out there like over sexualizing bugs bunny i i think they're not sexualizing him enough you know what you're right i think we need to turn it up to an 11 on bugs bunny he has some let's see like a dick bulge in his pants.

Oh, my God. Like, okay. Truly words I never thought I would hear associated with Bugs Bunny. I'd like to introduce a horrifying image into the room. Bugs Bunny, I mean,

obviously he's naked, right? Yeah. But you think of his fur as kind of close. So I was picturing a dick bulge coming from beneath his skin. Oh, my God. That's actually... That's his own fur as kind of close so i was picturing a dick bulge coming from beneath his skin oh my that's actually his own fur his pants that's how that's exactly how i was picturing it but he's

not that's it would just be out it would just be out right i was thinking like he'd be wearing shorts it's so upsetting it's such an upsetting oh basketball shorts yeah exactly his dick could just be hanging out of his back well i have long said that men's basketball shorts across the board are too long we need to go back to 70s basketball shorts for men show us the butts i want to see those thighs every show us the butts men's thighs are great they're an untapped resource yeah in my opinion they're great and it's like it sometimes i don't know if it's like i forget where i heard a similar discussion to this recently but it's like i don't know if it's just like an we just don't see men's thighs enough so that when we do we're just like

oh my god they're they're great they're gorgeous but they're like better than women's thighs that's coming from a feminist icon yeah This has been the male objectification portion of the podcast. You're welcome, everyone. About space jams, I'm out. Oh, but all that to say, baseball is the most boring thing in the entire world. In spite of that, this is a great movie. Yeah, I'm not a sports gal myself, but I do like this movie a lot. And I will take this opportunity to do a recap a league of their own is set in i want to say 1943 correct it's the middle of ww2

we're in a world war all the men have gone off to fight including all the- Bill Pullman. Yes. And apparently a bunch of major league baseball players. So this guy, Harvey of Harvey Bars, he's like, let's start up a women's league. But we're going to call it the girls league, which we'll talk about. But John Lovitz, he's scouting for talented baseball players who are ladies. You're going to love him.

Little dirty mustache. Suit a little bit too big. He's going to give his wife a tickle pickle, he says. Oh, and I bet he does. Oh, you know it. I forgot that line. I mean, I probably just erased it like a trauma memory. I don't know. Yeah. I was yeah i was like oh tickle pickle how often do you give your wife a tickle pickle is your tickle pickle relationship

healthy would you say how much should you be tickling with your pickle but you guys know that this is like based it's based on a true it's based on real events right yes yes cool julia looked up a lot of trivia and i'm very excited like is it do you know like a lot of historical trivia about it well not a lot but just you know the basics cool of the movie so john lovitz is scouting for different women he goes and scouts dotty and kit sisters who play jenna davis and tank girl they play in like a local league uh and he's like you guys are really good come and try out for this national

women's girls league he says Gina Davis should and god I love Kit Kit's like hey no fair I'm your kid sister even though I'm a grown ass woman I know I was like are you 30 like why are you so

she's like I'm always left behind you're an adult anyways but yeah he wants gina davis's character and she's like not without my sister kit so she convinces him to let kit come along and try out and they both make the team they end up on um the rockford peaches the rockford peaches other team members members, notable ones, are May. Madge. Madonna. Madge.

Wait, Madonna's character's name is Madge? May. No, that's Madonna's nickname for all you Madonna heads out there. Doris. Rosie O'Donnell. There's also Marla. Marla Hooch. Marla Hooch. I mean, I was like, all these weird, horny cartoon character names.

Fun fact, Marla Hooch is the mother of Hooch from Turner and Hooch, another. I'm kidding. I was like, is this a Pixar thing? Oh, who's the character who has little boy? Oh, I forget her name. But there's a mother on the team. And then there's also a teammate named Betty, who they call Betty Spaghetti. Betty Spaghetti.

Which was a doll. Did anyone have a Betty Spaghetti doll? I knew there was a doll. I did not have. She like stretched out, right? Yeah, that was her thing. She was like stretch arm strong for girls. Yeah, exactly.

Like she was like sexy stretch arm strong. Why do they have to gender toys like that? It's so weird. Because it was the 90s. But they still do it. Anyway, so there's a bunch of ladies on the team. And at first, no one's really into it. They're like, meh, why would we go watch women play baseball?

This is what I find relatable. It's like, do we want to watch baseball? But actually, that was historically inaccurate. Because the real All- girls professional baseball league was immediately popular because most people didn't have still didn't have TVs in their houses and wanted some entertainment. So pretty much immediately had people in the seats. Cool. Hey, I like that. That's great.

But the movie to heighten the drama, the movie depicts it as though it wasn't popular at first. So then different members of the team are like, let's find ways to make this popular. And so Geena Davis is doing splits and all kinds of stuff. And then more people come. Meanwhile, their manager, Tom Hanks, a.k.a. Jimmy Dugan. Hamming it up. I want to punch him in his mouth. He's a drunk. He's like a straight up alcoholic

because I feel like this is one of those movies where they try to just make him a drunk and it's like, no, he's a problem. Yeah, right. For sure. But it's okay because he has a character arc and we like him at the end. And then... Yeah, well Tom Hanks wouldn't agree to be in the movie if they're like and at the end you're still not likable yeah so they're dealing

with him they're dealing with all kinds of sexism and all matter of things and then it gets to the point where the world series is coming up and dotty and kit are having some sisterly struggles and they're like no we're not going to be on the same team anymore. And then they play a game against each other because Kit gets moved to a different team. Which is like, oh, poor Kit. Not fair. Right. I know.

Why can't they just get along? And then the Peaches end up losing. But it's okay because everyone's happy and they played baseball and they're women. Yay! Well, and also there's a war and bill that we think bill palman might be dead for a second but then turns out he just is limping a little bit and he's fine right he's fine because dotty is married to bob bill bill she goes she goes when he comes in the room, she goes, Bob. Bob is truly the least sexy name ever.

Yeah. Like, for some reason, Bobby's okay with me. Bobby is okay. Bobby Kennedy. Oh. That's pretty much it. Bobby Kennedy's so hot. I have a lot of framed pictures in my room.

Bobby Kennedy's so hot. It's insane. Jamie and I could do an entire podcast about the Kennedys. The horny, hor the Kennedys. The horny, horny Kennedys. Leif's newest little podcast. Little podcast. The horny, horny Kennedys.

Oh, God. Wow. He's unbelievable. I didn't expect to get so horny on this podcast. He's so horny. That'll happen. It's insane. That happens on the Bechdel cast quite often. Oh, boy.

Okay, sorry. So this has been part two of male objectification. It's going to keep happening. All right, let's get back on track. And then at the end, the Peaches lose, but it's fine because Dottie and Kit reconcile, and then they all get together at the end when they're old ladies, and they're at the Baseball Hall of Fame. And everyone's like, hey, remember way back when,

when people liked watching women's sports for a few years. And then the men came back from the war. No one cared about us anymore. Ah, what a cool time. The end. How are your grandkids? Yeah. So that's the story of A League of Their Own. Hot recap.

Yeah, that was like very tight tight i gotta keep things tight sometimes yeah love it there's a lot to unpack with this movie yeah what do we want to do i'm gonna go by character by oh i yeah i mean where to start one interesting thing about the movie in the story is that the female characters in the movie who are scouted to play baseball in the league also have to be beautiful hot yeah yeah i i don't know i mean i'm sure that there's some historical something to that i couldn't find anything so they didn't have to be beautiful per se but they all did actually get like makeovers and have to go to an etiquette school that part is real that part is real and the uniforms are not too far off so it was like the short yeah but also one of the things that i did not remember from this movie at all was the very opening scene where it's like the old

gina davis or whatever yeah they for whatever reason and it makes it it's so psychotic they dub gina davis actual gina davis's voice with the old woman who's playing her and it's looks and sounds so crazy i thought that was gina davis in old lady makeup no really they're old actors it's an old actress and then they they had Geena Davis like read her lines. Geena Davis, who, by the way, has never looked better. She's so hot. Except maybe in Beetlejuice. She is so hot in both of them.

And she's also a fellow tall woman. How tall is she? She's like 6'1 or something? Yeah, she's 6 feet. And also, apparently, she's like a... Mensa member. She's a Mensa member. And she's like feet and also apparently she's like a mensa member she's a mensa member and she's like an olympic archer stop it i have heard that yeah yeah she she also founded the gina davis gender studies for yeah gender studies institute she's an icon she's a feminist she's

like and i'm not even joking yeah she is usually i'm joking i love her so according to interviews with penny marshall who directed the movie they and gary is in the movie too gary's in the movie too because they couldn't afford anybody she's like gary come to work with me their brother and sister yeah they couldn't afford another actor so she just had gary do it for free and great get for gary but all of the actresses who were in the movie had to actually be able to play baseball so they had open tryouts for all the actresses and they had some like big name actresses who came to the tryouts who like didn't make it uh because they couldn't play baseball marissa tomei uh sent in a tape of her auditioning, like playing baseball on the set of My Cousin Vinny being coached by Joe Pesci.

Where is that tape? I don't know. Oh, my God. I want it in my possession right now. But she didn't make it because Penny was like, it was clear she wasn't a ballplayer. Chill out, Penny. Yeah. But they all did.

Basically, they did. All the actresses did almost all their own baseball stunts and all of like the bruises and shit is all real all right yeah that yeah that like huge like thigh yeah like yeah that was a real one yeah crazy nuts back on the characters like there was a huge emphasis on them being attractive to be able to play in the league which of course is like an insane double standard because like the men who play baseball don't you're not like you have to be hot and suckable you don't even need to be athletic to be but because they were women and they're like well

who's gonna want to watch women play baseball unless they're also attractive so that was a a thing a choice for the movie that you, whether or not it was like super historically accurate, totally believable. Like, yeah, like it's totally believable. You know, it's a standard that's placed on women all the time where it's like, well, who's going to want to listen to you talk or see you do anything unless you're also very hot. Right. And there's a scene where early on Marla, who is not traditionally beautiful, but she's a great baseball player. She's trying out and John Lovitz is like, oh, no. Like, because I don't want to take off my pickle pickle.

She's not on the team. Right. And then her dad is all like, well, I know my daughter isn't as pretty as these other girls, but I raised her like a boy because it was just me raising her. And I'm sorry I did a bad job uh which is like that's not crazy so hilarious because it's as if like every single mother would have raised her son like a girl just because she didn't know any difference she just doesn't know the difference yeah but there's a whole scene boils down to him being like i'm so sorry my daughter looks like shit yeah like what he should have said is like what my daughter looks like has fuck all to do with how well she can play baseball which is

very well yeah and fuck you for even suggesting that she shouldn't be on the team because she's not hot enough that's what her dad should have said yeah they might and then he was leaned in too far and been like my my daughter is so hot. No idea. Described her body. Anyway, so this is sort of a recurring theme throughout the movie. Like the women have to be beautiful. Like the newsreel thing, like the little black and white, like commercial almost. It's talking about each of the members of the team, but it's always like,

like you got a triple, there's no reason to let your nose get shiny it's like they're all talking about the women not really how they play baseball with product placement that or like just like noting their like domestic abilities it's like that's how like betty spaghetti she's like she's making spaghetti on and she loves to knit ellen sue's a former miss georgia yow! So it's either commenting on like... No credits! Sound effect! How good looking they are or how good they are at domestic crap. It's crazy because they set the bar so low to say something about you, but there's still a lot more where they're like, yeah!

Well, don't they just go to Marla Hooge and not say anything about her? They're like, what a hitter! And she's like in the background you can barely see yeah you can't see her at all another thing i wanted to talk about that like radio broadcast where the old lady is like careers in higher education are leading to the masculization of women with enormously dangerous consequences to the home our children and our country and she's like the worst case of this is women playing baseball and blah blah so some great exposition yeah amazing exposition that just to me serves as a reminder

that not all women are feminist icons yeah that's like one of the most empowering things in the entire world you're like someone are fucking monsters yeah realizing that and not being like uh yes queen i literally i tweeted about this the other day there's some people who act like women support all like female public figures like we're all just like phyllis schlafly yes right it's just like in one world like yeah i'm not i don't like i'm not scissoring with Betsy DeVos intellectually. Right. Yeah, some women are really shitty. You're going to hear first.

Right. That's the main point that we try to make on this podcast. Yeah, not all women are feminists. Kellyanne Conway, slay. Slay, bitch. So, yeah, women are just as guilty as men sometimes at reinforcing these dangerous gender roles and gender norms. Ivanka slay. Thank you. Yeah.

The team names of the lady players. Oh, yeah. Literally Peaches. Yeah, Peaches. The Bells. Calls up an image. Yeah. All of those were real. Really? the real team names yeah um there was also the blue socks and the comets yeah uh which are you know less

specifically gender yeah but you know there's not like men's baseball teams called the pickles but that would be fun but i would not be opposed to that tickle the tickle pickles you know you love welcome to the field there i love all the cartoony world war two names in in this movie i do too they're so funny also i really think that madonna was at her personal best in this movie yeah i think yeah i think it's her all-time best acting performance. Right. She has an amazing dance scene that she does all herself. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And she and Rosie have such a fun rapport. Yeah. It's great. It's the role she was born to play, I think. I agree. I agree. And she's apparently a talented baseball player. Yeah.

Who knew? Yeah. Except for everyone who's seen this movie. I think we should be saying a lot of, like, very common feminist things more. Just to, like, you know, build our audience. Yeah. Just a yes break. Yeah.

Like, ah. Just all vowels. Exactly. Yeah, just, like, a moment for, like, empowering vowels for women. Yeah, of course. on madonna's character so she's like the team yeah like yeah she gets slut shamed oh quite a bit yeah yeah because her nickname is all the way may which is like an a double entendre but also a great nickname yeah that's a great nickname especially if she's um and then there's the part where she's like they're like trying to draw more of a crowd

and she's like well what if like during a game my uniform pops open and my bosoms fall out and then rosie o'donnell's character is like do you think there's a man in this country who hasn't seen your bosoms and it's like but she's she's never, like, I don't know. It's always... It's all a good fun. Yeah, it's playful. It's not like, oh, you stupid idiot for being a slut. You stupid bitch!

Yeah. She presented it as a joke. It was received as a joke. She teaches the girl who can't read to read. Using erotic novels put that horniness to work oh it gets really good after this it's a funny gem

it's a fun movie it's fun but baseball sucks that's this is where you and I well because you guys have both played soft I'm I don't know I was a ballet gal. I know, but now you, okay, well, now you can dance.

Like, in a pinch, you can dance. In a pinch. If it's an emergency. Right. If someone's in trouble, I can dance. To get out of an escape room, you can dance. Yeah, that's why people bring me. I envy that because I have nothing from softball, really, besides that.

Well, you could still, I mean, you were playing as recently as two years ago. Yeah, no, but there are no, like, residual skills, life skills that you can get from softball. If an intruder comes into your house, you can take a bat and beat the shit out of them. Sure, but it takes a lot less skill than years of softball that'll be for like thank god i was playing softball all those years or i would be dead right now speaking of escape rooms there's a thing to be said for men in escape rooms i'm just like i'm in charge i know what i'm doing i need to like i need to take control of the situation men in escape rooms very much the same yeah Men in escape rooms, very much the same. Yeah. Oh, God.

Escape rooms are, you can't go with a man. You cannot. Yeah. They need to be like, I took math. I keep trying to go to an escape room with a man, and it just doesn't work. You can't. They're like, look behind the frame. There's a safe over here.

Escape rooms are, first of all, terrible. Yes. But it is fun to, i just really want to put like a bunch of aggressive men in an escape room and just them try to alpha each other they're like the seagulls from finding nemo and they would not get out they would die oh there's a scene where like it reveals their uniform uh we touched on this where it's like the short dresses that are not at all practical for playing any sport. And the women like push back. You see like a lot of things are challenged.

Also, a lot of things go unchallenged. But one of the things that they do challenge is the uniform. Just like right at first whenever they see it. And they're like, we can't. What are you supposed to slide in this? Like that's a dress. That's half a dress. What are we, baseball players or ballerinas?

So they're challenging it, but they still end up wearing them. So it's like they didn't give very far. Well, but I think that's just a historical thing. Right. Yeah. But, you know, it's just another. I thought it was good that they challenged it. Yeah.

Because, I mean, I guess we don't really know what happened, but hopefully that would have happened. Because there could not be a less practical thing to wear this is another example of a double standard where the men were like oh here's a practical thing to play and sliding in that truly must have been such a bitch because like even sliding when you like when i played i played softball for a long time as i said and uh you'd wear like sliding shorts. Oh, really? Which are these like padded shorts underneath your uniform shorts. I'm learning.

Because sliding hurts so much. And even with those, you would get cut up a little bit. So I can only imagine. These women must have just been like bleeding all the time. Jesus. Let's talk about some some individual characters sure well dotty what do we think of dotty i i like dotty i mean we see like right away how great of a player she is she advocates for her sister so she's lifting other women up

but then she's also dragging her back down a bit Team Kit. To me, I attributed that more to a sibling rivalry than a, I'm competing with you because you're another woman kind of thing. But it's hard to say. It could be maybe a little bit of both. I don't know. She's the rock of Peaches, who played in the league for six years and pitched like 17 shutouts. Oh, she was a pitcher, not a catcher? Yeah, she was a pitcher. Yeah. So she was this like incredible player. But yeah, Dottie, the character, actually, I don't know if this is like crossing movies too much, but like reminds me of Julia Stiles' character in Mona Lisa Smile.

Because she has a lot of aptitude and she has a lot of potential to do other stuff. Like clearly Dottie is like very smart. She does math in her head. Not like the other girls. Not like the other girls. She's a great baseball player. She could do more with her life and like other people tell her that she could do more. And she's like, actually, I choose to go back to my family.

Right. Which is what Julia Stiles' character does. I haven't seen that movie in a long time. The sweaters are incredible in that movie. It is a big sweater movie. It's a great sweater movie. Sweater porn. I have never seen it.

It's a fun. Watch it for the sweaters, Caitlin. You can watch it on mute. I do. Just a lot of. I do. I have never seen it. Watch it for the sweaters, Caitlin. You can watch it on mute. I do. Just a lot of... I do watch it on mute. Donnie, I mean, she's great, obviously. I don't dislike her.

She's not the most interesting character. Right. She's not really flawed in any interesting way. She's like the control group of yeah the characters i think which which might even be and i i genuinely avoid sports movies that might even be a sports movie trope of like the leader is like the but i would have been interested to see a more flawed character or so you know like she doesn't really fuck up ever except like she fights with her sister sometimes but i think that that's why i gravitate towards kit because she fucks up

constantly but also it's like very dynamic and like it's always i don't know well that feels like more of a character dynamic is like um there's a game where kit's like not pitching very well gina davis is like yeah we should take her out of the game although at first she's like um there's a game where kit's like not pitching very well gina davis is like yeah we should take her out of the game although at first she's like no she's doing fine and then jimmy dugan's like not really is that what you think he like swallowed a bucket of phlegm before delivering each line it's too much it's too much dial it back yeah so then dotty's like what? Actually, she's pitching grapefruits or something like that. And Kit gets mad.

40s talk. I feel like their argument, their conflict is Kit sort of just being immature and not willing to acknowledge that maybe she shouldn't keep playing when she's having an off game kind of thing. That's her whole thing. But she's wrong. Right, right, right. That's the thing.

It's like she's... Geena Davis is right and yeah yeah she's never wrong and i think that's like kind of what like i almost felt like kid a little i'm like we can get it right you're so smart yeah well the character to me with the most notable character arc is jimmy dugan like everyone else is just sort of like yeah we have a little thing and then we're but like everyone pretty much stays the same and is generally pretty static but then he kind of does do a 180 yeah yeah also i just think it's so weird how there's like a sexual tension between dotty and jimmy dugan yeah that does not check out for me but i mean nor does gina davis and bill pullman with a limp but like bob bob he's like oh and then he i wrote this down he's like you're the he says

you're the most beautiful thing i've ever seen i was like oh he objectified gina davis how could you how could you and she and she says bob she doesn't care she's bob's thing oh to be i mean the point i'm trying to make is it's you know not the best thing ever that the character with the most notable character arc is is the man right i mean playing devil's advocate i could see the argument that it's not the women in the movie who have to change they're trying to exist in a space as themselves and that's their real challenge where it's like the attitudes of the men in the league that need to change from yeah moment one it's like the only person in this in this movie

who actually is so flawed that he needs to change is jimmy dugan right so like none of the basically i think that's saying like that like all the women are fine and jimmy dugan's a fucking mess which is which is pretty much true it's true but there still could have been like it has a more dedication to like dotie's character. She could have still had an arc in some way. It doesn't mean she needed to start out shitty and end up being like, oh, I'm a better person now. It still could have been. I totally agree.

I mean, there's like little stuff. Like there's a girl that learned how to read. There's like little stuff but the arc of the female character i liked was kit because she i don't like that in that end scene with dotty and kit kit basically realizes that she wasn't like battling her sister she was battling being insecure yeah and then was i'm like almost crying it's a beautiful scene and then she she you know she's just like oh you should stay and gina davis is like no i have to go uh get pregnant from bill palman which is like what a crazy plan for your night um but and and you see like the sister relationship at the end where dotty's that

was one moment where i was like yeah dotty's cool because more i'm like ah dotty's boring but when she's like happy for kit when kit wins because and then she says you wanted it more that was one moment where i was like yeah dotty's cool because more i'm like ah dotty's boring but when she's like happy for kit when kit wins because and then she says you wanted it more which she did yeah yeah because like dotty was never she didn't have her heart into which is another weird thing about this movie the protagonist is not into baseball really yeah and she's like okay this is what i think. Okay. Again, I'm going to draw the parallel to Julia Stiles' character in Mona Lisa Smile. I think she is really into it, but it's like the culture of the times dictated her life so much. Because she was clearly into it enough that she played enough that she was great at it.

And she played in a farm league and learned the game inside and out, but felt her sense of duty to like whatever the cultural bullshit was at the time all right was just like overpowered that yeah yeah i mean well in that same scene where gina davis is like i gotta go have babies and tank girl's like you can have babies next year and she's like no, no, I gotta have babies today. Sorry. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what happens. Bill Pullman is waiting. Yeah, Bill Pullman's got a hard-on in the under-rib. He's got a limp.

I've gotta be accommodating. He's got a limp. The clock is ticking. My Bob. Another interesting thing that happens in the movie is, I think it's during the first game, Dottie hits a home run. The announcer attributes the great thing that happens in the movie is I think it's during the first game. Dottie hits a home run. The announcer attributes the great thing that she did to Jimmy Dugan being like, oh, he knew what to tell.

He told her the right thing to do. And like, right. So credit going to the wrong person, which happens a lot. And it's an example of just the assumption that if a woman does something good it's because a man taught her how to do it or is somehow behind it right and it's dumb let's not do that anymore society tom hanks in this movie is just i mean again just a bit my and then there he has i wrote this down his line at the end where he basically delivers the moral of the movie where I was just like, oh, come on. Like when he's trying to convince Dottie to stay, he's like, baseball's what lights you up.

It's what's inside you. And then she says, it just got too hard, which I think is the better this movie in a nutshell. But then he says, it's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great. it's just like shut up like i just tom hanks getting to be the moral compass of this movie is of course because he would not agree to do a movie in which he was not the moral compass i think he might be a sociopath but but like i'm like he also has he delivers the most famous line of the movie which is right one of the most famous lines in modern cinema.

You don't cry in a baseball. I want to talk about that. And then he says it five times. You don't cry in a baseball. You just keep, shut up. So the implication there with that line is that there's no crying in baseball because crying is a girl thing and baseball is a boy thing the two can't intersect the thing is whenever men and boys are taught to not be you can't be vulnerable you can't be emotional because you're a pussy if you are uh the patriarchy is damaging to women and men

so men it's okay to cry. Cry your little heart out. There is crying in baseball. Yeah. In fact, the only time I consistently see men cry is during sporting events. Yes. So there is a lot of fucking crying in baseball. Have you seen the Little League World Series, anyone?

No, wait. Oh, are there a lot of crying daddies there? Well, no. The kids are a fucking mess. Oh, I mean, well, that's the best. Obviously. Yeah. It's like, get used to it, bitch.

Life's hard. Oh, another fun thing that Jimmy Dugan says. I haven't got ballplayers. I've got girls. Girls I want to sleep with after the game, not coach during the game. Hilarious. Hilarious. Good job, Jimmy Dugan. Or when he does that,

he does a bunch of, and I know it's supposed to be like, he sucks now, but wait until the end when he says, you know, at the beginning he's like, broads suck. And then at the end he's like, broads are good. He's like, you are a ball player. And I drink less now. And that's what we call a character

arc. You get boiled down. Tom Hanks to that. But then he has that prayer scene, too, where he's like, Jesus, remember that waitress I fucked? Or, like, whatever. And he's like, you know, because she was screaming your name. Which is Tom Hanks being, like, declaring he has that good D. He's got a great pickle to tickle women with.

No way. Tom Hanks for sure has a flesh lump where no way he's fully dickless oh no there's kendall i don't want to think about yeah he's a smooth boy and not to hate on it i love a smooth boy i love a guy with no dick oh man oh jimmy dugan surprise kisses a woman whenever he's on the bus does he he's on the bus and he's drunk she's the one she's like the guardian like the chaperone the chaperone who's been appointed to like okay look after and he's like waking her up because the bus driver just quit. Does every movie need a surprise kiss? Every single movie has a surprise kiss. It's so annoying. But he is like waking up from a drunken stupor and he just grabs her and kisses her.

And she's like, ah. And then when he realizes what he does, because she's another, you know, not classically beautiful woman by Western standards. And he's like, oh, fuck god so gross and he like chugs some whiskey and then spits it out over the bus floor and then he slaps her ass later in the movie to show that he's changed as a character yeah he's like now i would touch you he's grown before i sexually assaulted you on accident but now i'm sexually assaulting you on purpose. Because I think you're hot. Brave. Brave. Yes, queen. Brave. We've already talked at length about how it's not okay to surprise kiss a person.

I just wanted to make note that that does happen in this movie. Look at you, Brandon Fraser. Jeez Louise. Yeah. Brandon Fraser in which movie? The Mummy. The Mummy. Kisses Rachel Weisz.

He's like a caged animal and lunges at her it's startling brendan fraser looks so crazy now we were we were just talking about how we think he might be covered in scabs oh god we don't know uh oh geez what was i gonna say oh alfred malina is not should he play well i thought about it and he couldn't play tom hanks's part he's too good of an actor uh i would say swap out molina and love it if anything but i i would give it to uh lowenstein he's the one who at first he's like you guys don't want to play in these dresses oh you can fuck right off and then later like, man, people love these girls playing baseball. I'm going to take over the league. Yeah.

He's a great, he's a master of his craft. He could sell that. Or if we're going full beefcake, swap out Pullman and Molina. And then we have a very different Bob. I love that. I want to see Geena Davis make out with Alfred Pullman. Yes. I think that that's like, that's a better match than.

That's such a better match than Gina Davis, Bill Pullman. Ugh. A loveless marriage. At the end where she's like, I don't need baseball. I have Bob. It's like, what are you talking about? Like, I can't wait to quit comedy and just be like, I have Bob. I met someone named Bob and I don't need to do this thing anymore.

I have him now. I'm actively looking for a reason to stop. Alfred Molina is a national treasure. Hot. And the first Broadway show I ever saw was Fiddler on the Roof. Shut up. With Alfred Molina as Tevye. Tevye.

Incredible. Wow. I had no idea. Incredible. Just, ugh. He must have been the, I mean, I've seen some videos. He's the perfect Tevye. He's the perfect seen some videos. He's the perfect Tevye. He's the perfect Tevye.

He's the perfect Tevye. I don't know who I think I'm kidding. Of course I've seen those videos. He's such a talent. Like, he can do anything. He can do anything. He can do anything. One last thing I want to say.

Sorry to interrupt your Alfred Molina discussion. There's a short scene sandwiched in the middle of a montage later in the movie where a ball lands and it's near a black woman's foot and she picks it up and Dottie's like throw it here and she's nearby and she's like I'm gonna actually throw it even farther because I'm good at baseball too that's based on a real person right is it yeah oh no sure and they're like wow she was good at throwing the woman just sort of like gives them a little like nod. I mean, the implication is that she isn't allowed to play. She's not allowed to play.

I looked up the color line on Wikipedia. Yeah, wasn't that 49? The color line in American baseball. Oh, so it was a few years ago. Yeah, the men's leagues were not integrated until 1949. Excluded players of black African descent from Major League Baseball and its affiliated minor leagues until 1947 oh 47 so yeah the implication is that she wouldn't have been allowed to play the movie only spends like 20 seconds or less addressing like oh black people couldn't play baseball yet because it's a very white movie understandably

so because of the era but i was like it would have been nice for the movie to maybe address it a little more like if there was for sure like a black player like maybe trying to try out and they're like no we're a bunch of shitty racists so you can't or something i don't know i just it felt weird that like if you blank you would miss that scene yeah so i just wish it would have been addressed a little more thoroughly i think well i think i actually i like the way that they i think it you know absolutely too short the scene is definitely short but i think that if they had really over explained it it would have come off as almost like like i think i think it's just like giving the audience enough credit to be like oh it's obvious

that she's not allowed to play and then her coming into the scene makes you realize oh everyone on these teams is white right right i mean which i guess you know you might not have noticed already yeah there's a famous black female pitcher that i read about named mamie johnson who i think that that character is supposed to be some sort of nod to or she was like a famous pitcher who ended up pitching in men's leagues oh wow for several years in the 1950s very interesting another bit of trivia the woman who played kit laurie patty was when she was growing up she played she was the only girl on a boys baseball team oh so she like she she didn't need to she already had those no and tank girl during so during filming she pitched more than most major league baseball pitchers do in an

entire season that's amazing tank girl why do you keep calling what is that a reference i don't know the reference either she plays tank girl what is tank girl it's like a really weird superhero movie oh it was like a a notorious flop oh okay yeah oh i think i've seen i feel like you've probably seen pictures she the character of kit is for most of the movie before her arc she is just like a almost like a charlie brown peanuts character yeah she's just like huh it's so i'm like she's a grown up she's a grown woman but even when she's like milking a cow she's like why can't i play yeah it's like what are you she's she like acts like a little boy but i love it yeah i she's like a little rascal the final thing i want to say yeah was because this movie takes place in the 40s but but it came out in summer. It came out in July 92, just shy of yours truly's premiere onto this earth.

I mean, it was a very successful movie. It did very well. And I just was thinking about like what the climate was when this movie came out and like how that would inform how it did. But this is like when Hillary Clinton's like heavily on the campaign trail like this the summer this movie comes out she's like sort of whatever making her debut of sorts um just in terms of well bill's in office she's on the oh the campaign trail with bill okay this came out before the election yeah she was she was definitely the most vocal first lady and she was until that point she had the most like policy say probably of any first lady for sure for sure it was just so i don't know i was like

what was it like for women in 1992 not great yeah guess what she got a lot of shit for saying uh when a reporter asked why she was like focusing so much on policy where she was like i'm not just gonna stay home and bake cookies and she got so much shit about that as recently as this today on twitter right now uh any other final thoughts that anyone has about the movie of course this movie passes the bechdel test like a thousand times yeah we didn't talk about rosie at all at all and i know that we can't really now but i just want to say my final my my parting thought about this movie is that the story of every movie ever is that tom hanks gained 30 pounds for this movie and was encouraged to eat as much as possible and it said rosie o'donnell was told to eat as little as possible which is the story of every movie ever yeah damn it god damn it of course a female director

penny marshall yeah uh written by so the story credit story by babaloo right well kim wilson and kelly uh kelly is a man by the way i thought kelly was a woman oh shit i didn't i just assumed how gender norman of me to assume that kelly is a woman by the way I thought Kelly was a woman oh shit damn it I didn't I just assumed how gender normative of me to assume that Kelly is a woman well we have at least one Kelly's man and his mother played in the league oh cool

but uh yeah all the most of the writing credits are it's Lowell Gantz Babalu Mandel and then there's a Kim I'm guessing Kim is a woman but maybe i think kim is a woman i'm seeing the screenplay was written by lowell gans and babaloo right and but then there's like a story by credit from kelly and kim i almost panicked because i thought i had somehow made

up bubble no you were right it was on point I was about to be like, where could that have possibly come from? Shout out to Babalu. Still alive. But yeah, the movie passes the Bechdel test a bunch of times. Pretty much, I'd say in most scenes, there are only a handful of scenes where like two dudes are talking and there aren't any women present. And those are the worst scenes. Yeah.

Those are boring. And usually they're talking about how women suck. But yeah, a ton of scenes passed the Bechdel test so yay no surprise there yeah let's rate the movie on our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women I'm gonna give it I think like a four or four and a half it's gonna rate pretty highly for. It's annoying that the main character arc goes to a man. And like, I didn't even mention that like John Lovitz is like, we'll pay you $75 a week. Whereas the top paid men baseball players of that era were earning up to like 50 grand a year or more.

Which is, hey, guess what? More than $75 a week. I did that math in my head. Not like the other girls. Not like the other girls. Yes. Yes. Yes, queen Slade.

Do the math. So, you know, sheds light on a bunch of different double standards that women face. So, yeah, it's just a cool movie. It's cool to see a sports movie about women. You almost never do. It's never cool to see a sports movie. But. Fuck you, Mighty Ducks. Yeah. a sports movie about women. You almost never do. It's never cool to see a sports movie. But, uh... Fuck you, Mighty Ducks.

Yeah. We're taking the ducks to task. Today on the Pactalcast. I'll never be able to run for office because I said, fuck the Mighty Ducks. We're sticking it to the ducks. Yes, queen.

Okay. So, yeah. Cool to watch a bunch of kick-ass ladies who are good at playing baseball be good at baseball and it's a fun movie so yeah i'm gonna go with a four i'm gonna give john lovett's two nipples and they do look like small kosher dill pickles and the oh those are the tickle pickles yeah he's just like rubbing his chest on his wife. The other two I'll give to Marla. I'll give it a four as well.

Agree with what you're saying. I wish that we saw more flaws in our, like it really did bug me seeing like Dottie. I mean, you could have very easily given her one of Tom Hanks' problems. You know, it wouldn't be out of the question for a woman to have a drinking problem. Yeah. Speaking as one who's actively developing one. But, like, I mean, she was up against a lot, but didn't have any Achilles heel, and that was annoying. And Tom Hanks is annoying, and baseball's boring. Four nipples.

I'll give two of the nipples to... Oh, no, I'm going to give all four nipples to the cow. Oh, yeah. We see literal cows' utter nipples. Yeah. There are exposed nips. Yeah. Well, because this movie was integral to my childhood and my development into the nightmare that i am today i will give this five nipples

yeah it's really hard for me to be objective about this movie because it is my childhood and i think it was really nice to see. Because I think so often in movies that are written and directed by men. Where there are female characters. The female characters are so flawed. I didn't really care that Dottie didn't have. Like Dottie was like perfect or whatever. I really didn't care. And also there was such a great variety of different personalities among the characters.

You get a slutty one. Yeah. You get a... Like a brassy Long Island one. Yeah. Dolores. Rosie. Yeah, Rosie was great.

Yeah, I just, I really liked it. I love baseball. I don't care. Who knows? Now you're never going to get elected. It's off. You're right. I'm not just full of baseball-h hating heathens i really liked it and i will give all the nipples to

madonna's kick-ass dance scene in the middle of the movie uh julia thank you so much for being here thank you so much for having me this is a this is a dream i love i love the pod yeah thank you so much where can people find you online you can find me on twitter too much at uh oh julia tweets i'm on twitter a lot tweeting about america yeah yeah julia's twitter feed is an adventure yeah it's an adventure in uh exploring you know what a dystopia some would say it used to be good. The reviews are in. Well, great. You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtelcast. You can check us out on Facebook.

You can go to our website, Bechtelcast.com. We keep forgetting to say you can give us money. We need your money so bad. You can give us money, but we need your money. We're dying. And, yeah. Hey, there's no crying in baseball, except there's all the crying in baseball and in everything. Yay. Cry.

Yes, queen. Bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free,

subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that? That was live audio

of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller

from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, or wherever you pursue your true goals.

You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday.