The Bechdel Cast - A Star is Born (2018)

Episode Date: October 16, 2018

Caitlin and Jamie discover special guest Anna Hossnieh and help propel her to super stardom, all while discussing A Star Is Born (2018). Women uplifting women!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast. Follow @annahossnieh on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that?

That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller

from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Captain's Log,

Stardate 2024. We're floating somewhere in the cosmos, but wherever you get your podcasts. navigate the depths of culture, identity, and the human spirit with a hint of mischief, one episode at a time. Buckle up and listen to In Our Own World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust us, it's out of this world. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast.

Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! I hope if you're listening to this in your car, you just crashed. You just literally got into

an accident. I don't hope got into an accident i don't hope that i well i don't hope that but if that's what you're dealing with right now it is our fault hi i'm jamie loftus and i'm caitlin dorante and this is the best episode of the pectocast ever i'm so excited i've never been less excited about. I've been stewing in my juices for days now. I'm so thrilled to be talking about A Star is Born with our friend Anna Hosnier. Wow. I just, I blew it. I blew my friggin'

What if I just needed my turn? I was like, she's been vibrating at the table. Oh, it's so good. Every song is almost good enough to be a real song like they are real songs i did but i by the way i was like this song actually kind of slaps but it's not quite a real song oh i love it so much so hey hey here we are we're the Bechdel cast we talk about the portrayal and representation of women in film we use the Bechdel test to initiate a larger conversation about women in film hey what's that the Bechdel test is it was founded invented created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel. And it requires that a movie has two female identifying characters with names.

They have to talk to each other. What? For at least a two-line exchange. And their conversation cannot be about a man. Well, good luck with this franchise. Okay, so wait. We should do a dry run of the Bechdel test. Okay, let's do it.

Hey, Caitlin, will you ask me a question and I'll ask you to ask me? Wait, what? It's passing so far. Just say my name. Hey, Jamie. Okay, Caitlin, if I ask you to ask me a question and give you the copy will you say will you ask me that question yes okay here's a question i want you to ask me okay what do they have in arizona hey hey jamie yeah what do they have in arizona nuts navajos and nowhere to go

that was a long way but that all passed yeah yeah that all passed that Yeah. That all passed. That passed the Bechdel test. That was great. Thank you. That was the longest pass. That's like a full conversation with someone like, okay. In the history of cinema. Yeah. My favorite part about the Bechdel test is it doesn't have to be good writing. It just has to be writing. Oh, by the way, sad.

Hey, should we introduce our guest? Yeah. Okay. I haven't even our guest? Yeah. Okay. I haven't even started yet. Yeah. Right. Well, let's give her a proper introduction. She's a friend of the cast.

You've already heard her on our She's All That episode. She is one half of Ethnically Ambiguous, and she's a producer here at How Stuff Works, Anna Hosnier. That's right. And I sleep under the table every time you guys record. Little known fact. Yeah, it's true. Little known factoid. So here we are talking about the 2018

A Star is Born. Oh, sorry. And this is quite a hot request, which I think is one of the only reasons Caitlin agreed to do it. Also, I blackmailed you guys. I was like, I will be the guest, and that is that. I do have a memory of you walking towards us as you were like, we're going to do A Star

is Born, right? And then two nights later, we were in the theater fully reclined. Guess what? I bought tickets ASAP. I bought tickets for everybody. I was like, great, we're going. And sent us a paragraph long venmo yes it was like i was prepping you it was you guys had to like ask for my permission you were like please can we do a star is born yeah you were like i'm not excited to see Like, that was the first thing you said when I got in the car.

I was like, oh, this is going to be fun. Take a hit of weed. And you were like, no. I was like, weed gives me panic attacks. I'm very cool. You're going to love this movie, Kayla. Oh, man. Smoke weed in the back freaking seat on the way to Starborn 2018.

Okay, so Jamie and Anna, you've both prepared, I would say, more than adequately. But I still feel completely all over the place. Okay, just to be clear. Got it. Not in organized prepared, but I have all the thoughts I need. Good, okay. So Anna, what is your history with this film or the general A Star Is Born franchise, if you will? I mean, as you know, this movie is a remake of a remake of a remake of a remake of a remake and the original film was

actually called what price hollywood which was the original one who no one's seen because who cares it was a selznick joint yeah yeah exactly who um little known fact was the son-in-law of Louis B. Mayer of the... Notorious rapist. Yes. We could say that about almost any male executive of that era. Yeah, he was a film executive and he, yeah. They're all rapists. They're all rapists.

So then the film that was remade based off What Prize Hollywood was A Star is Born with Janet Gaynor. I have not seen that version. That was from 1937? Yes, 37. That's a little too far back for me. I took a 30s film class in college and I was like, yawn, enough of these Joan Crawfords, okay? Oh, yikes. And I was never a fan of that whole censorship era.

Oh, the production code. Well, it lasted from the mid-30s till the late 60s. No interest. I've seen the 37 code. I was like, move it along. Well, it lasted from the mid-30s till the late 60s. Yeah. No interest. I've seen the 37-star. I haven't seen it in a long time. Yeah. Didn't commit.

But one of my favorite fun fact about That Star Is Born is Dorothy Parker helped write the script. Oh. I just feel like women usually are involved in writing the scripts, which is so interesting because the woman has no power.

And then I saw the Judy garland one a while back um it's like three hours long i recommend it if you like three hours yeah have three hours or ate a very strong edible and i can't move um that one i think is the best because i've seen the barbara streisand one and i actually re-watched the barbara streisand one last night and god damn is streisand a mess uh that's i think the worst one because i listened to a podcast uh you must remember this about the making of a star is born the barbara streisand one and boy it was not good she was a real bitch oh she led chris christopherson to drink like a bottle of tequila a day so he just basically became the guy that the movie was and it wasn't babs was just being method and apparently she cut her own edit at the end that had her basically include more

shots of her ass because she was like my butt so she's like there needs to be more male gays yes i do kind of love like i wish that every actor demanded that they got their own cut. I want to see, like, what is the Taylor Lautner cut of Twilight 2? It's just all his ass. It's just more of his, I think maybe it's not even gendered. It's like, this is my movie. My ass should be in it as much as possible. Exactly.

I get it. Ass, ass, ass. Yeah, that's basically what it's like. You got so many shots to get your ass in front of a big crowd. I it she's insane okay i've also seen the 76 one i could not get through it this time i got 45 it's such a mess like it even looks like it looks like a mess on the set i was just like what is it's and now you both have seen this 2018 version twice now? Yes. Okay, great. We've seen all of them. Well, good job.

You're way more prepared than I am because I've seen Bradley Cooper's A Star is Born one time. Honestly, catch yourself some bread. Yeah, you know what? I feel like that is big. Thank you. I don't know if you recall, but I did watch all six Mission Impossible movies to prep for the episode we did. So I'm coming in not having a whole ton of background for this film. And it's because, yeah, I don't especially like this genre.

This is going to make me sound psychoticotic but i don't like to watch people sing i think it's so boring that's quite normal yeah okay some people find musicals completely uncomfortable like they can't like i'm not a huge fan of of musicals i wouldn't classify this as a musical because all the music that's happening in this one is diegetic as in like it's happening as a part of the story and they're like not breaking out into random song yeah so and at least if there's like a song and dance number it's like they're there's fun there's choreography this one we're just watching people sing and i could not be more bored and i just yeah i don't i just this is not for me but I did enjoy the first 30 minutes yes Jamie you're raising your hand you have a question my history with this movie

I love Judy Garland so much she was my hero when I was little I feel like all young queer people slash very very very quiet young women uh for some reason there's something about judy i would record all of her movies on turner classic and would be to the point where it's like my family would write it on the calendar judy garland's birthday because there would always be a 24-hour marathon would you take a cake to school every night no i wouldn't talk to anyone at school, but one of my parents was usually home, and so they would switch out the VHS tape to start recording the next one.

So I've seen every Judy Garland movie ever. Love her so much. And then I wanted to experience the Judy Garland extended universe, and so that's why I watched The Other Star is Born, to be like, I know that she was the best one, but let me just cross-check and confirm. And check.

And then I found out Dorothy Parker helped write the first one. I was like, oh. And then Joan Didion helped write the Barbra Streisand. There's a lot of famous women writers involved. The interesting fact about that is she started to write it, and then Barbra streisand was so hell she left but because she was like still like you know um credited as a writer she made more money that she'd ever made in her entire life off that movie basically yeah so she was like set for life and all she had to do was like meet with barbara like five times before she was like this one which honestly sounds like uh worth the amount of the any like story of barbbra Streisand on set of anything.

You're like, holy shit. This is this is a lot. What a legend. This is she truly, truly a diva. Yeah, I love this movie. But I just I think I just wanted to say I love Judy Garland. Sure. And I think we between the three of us, we've seen the trailer maybe 500 times.

Yeah. So I do recall when that trailer first appeared on my YouTube. I remember when it first appeared on your YouTube. Yes, because I think I brought it to you guys. I was like, have you seen this? And then we proceeded. I made you watch that. I made you watch that and a bunch of weird Mark Wahlberg films, but don't worry about that.

I haven't stopped watching it. I'm glad you guys have had a great time with this so far. I have a somewhat unhealthy relationship to the part on the trailer where Lady Gaga starts her, like, full Lady Gaga moment. It's good. And then when it was coming up, that whole scene, it's almost like the scene, like, whoever is editing it is like, oh, people are going to be so excited for the part where she just yells. And so they make you, he makes you wait for it and wait for it and wait for it and then she finally hits the mic and you're like i think we all like grabbed hands and we started levitating five feet off the ground it was crazy i do remember when it was about to happen an old man got up to

go use the bathroom and i was so fiercely offended. I was like, are you fucking kidding me? She's about to walk on stage. If you're listening, sir. He's our biggest fan. I just love it. Is this the A Star is Born universe, or A Stars are Born, a stars are a stars is born what would you how do you

what would you refer to this classified universe a stars is born or a star is born the stars the stars are born born stars that sounds like porn stars

a star is Bjorn would have been a great one porn stars I like that that sounds like porn stars the star is Bjorn the star is Bjorn would have been a great one missed opportunity for this round because this this film

it's not even a franchise this story that refuses to die generally was like coming up once once every 20 years

and they skipped the 90s yeah which would have been a great Kurt and Courtney adjacent but they didn and they skipped the 90s yeah which would have been a great kurt and courtney adjacent but they didn't they skipped the 90s right but it was originally supposed to be clinty swood directing with beyonce attached yeah and then will smith was attached uh i think as as whoever this one for the 2018 one well the one that was gonna that was in the

works before this one you know know, came out with Brad. Every version who's played, it was Esther for the first three. No, I think the second, Judy Garland, then they make it like Vicky or something. No, they change. So they change her name in most of them. There's like a few things they don't do in this movie. She normally starts as Esther Blodgett. Okay.

And then they change her name to Vicky Lester. Got it. To make her like hot. But this time she starts as Allie and we'd never find out her last name and then they don't change her name

and then she's Allie. It's because she isn't important until her last name is the man's last name. Exactly. Well, and that's something that happens in every movie too.

There's a few, we'll get into it. There's a few things that happen in every version of A Star is Born and they're all regressive and Cooper could have done something about it. Cooper? Also who decided that Vicky was the fuckable name? Vicky. I'm Vicky.

She's like a vixen. Yeah. Shall I do the recap? Please. I'm not going to do's like a vixen. Shall I do the recap? Please. I'm not going to do a good job because I've only seen the movie once and I... Don't worry. Fill in the blanks. Okay. So, we

meet Jackson Main. He's a country? Well, his songs sound a little bit like a rock and roll but people love it it's like country rock he's like a willie nelson of sorts yeah but like hot and all the all he's such an alcoholic that all the blood is at the surface of his face for the whole movie it's distracting so we meet him he is a famous musician and but not at his peak not quite at his peak

well i don't know he's already peaked and now he's on his way down off the peak he's playing festivals right but i think he's playing festivals because he's like a legend in that sense but he's at this point on his way down he's still famous but right he's not at his peak anymore he gets off of a gig he goes to a bar where there's a drag show. He literally goes to the Virgil in Los Angeles. He goes to the Virgil, a bar that we've all been at many, many times. I've eaten shit into that very microphone. It's wild.

Yeah. Yeah. So there he meets Allie, Lady Gaga's character. Who sings La Vie en Rose. Yes. And he's smitten with her. And he waits for her after the show. He peels off her creepy tape eyebrow.

He's like, is that your real eyebrow? So many of his lines spoken like out of context. You're like, is that your real eyebrow? Nobody. No. If he wasn't a famous musician and just creepy drunk guy, like bloated creepy drunk guy. Thrown out the window. And we'll talk about that because that is certainly worth talking about.

Or like a scene later where he's like, can I touch your nose? Like, oh my God, stop. Right. So they hang out the rest of the night and he finds out that she's an aspiring musician as well. Lady Gaga punches a cop. She punches a cop. They go to a grocery store to get some frozen peas about it. They are bonding.

And he's like, hey, why don't you come to this gig? And she's like, no, I can't. And then she goes anyway. Oh, quick trailer talk. So, Anna, this is your specialty. Please. I forgot the famous, much-memed trailer moment of, What?

Hey. What? I just want to go down to the locator. And she goes, huh? And that's how I would read it. That's the noise that goes with that face. She's like but that is also spoken in at least the judy garland version it's in the strisand one too oh is that's the thing they pulled as well that that whole just want to take another look at you

because i'm weird in every other incarnation the actor in question separates the words. It doesn't say the whole sentence as if it's one word. Right. But that's just kind of the Coop's take on the sentence is it's just a word. And the word is... Well, it could be because he is drunk because his character is an aggressive alcoholic. Yes. But even when he's sober, he's still kind of slurring.

You know that scene at the piano where he's just got out of rehab, but he's like, hey, you see, I've been playing with a dog outside, wrote you a song. I was like, oh my God, he still can't talk. All his reactions are like, sorry, what was that? He's so famous, no one will ever tell him. Yeah. I think part of his character is he doesn't know he's so i mean he's so famous no one will ever tell him yeah it's like i think part

of the like part of his character is like he doesn't know he's weird to an extent yeah because he's been famous for so long that he just doesn't know he's weird yeah because everyone's like oh jackson mayne you're sign my titties jackson you know yeah so basically they start to hang or like the second time they hang out she goes on stage at one of his shows and like sings the song and that's the right the iconic and then he goes i wrote an arrangement not very good but it won't come on stage that was low-key bullying he He shouldn't have done that. Yeah, he's like, otherwise I'll plagiarize you and say this is my song.

I was like, well, the stakes are there they are. Right. Yeah, so she's basically forced to go and sing her song on stage with him and this starts to kind of propel her music career forward because people see it and people take video of it and then there's a bunch of YouTube views and and people start to take notice of her and as that's

happening they're developing a romantic relationship and there's you know some struggles along the way because he again is a little bit like suffering from alcoholism yeah there's nothing like having to always wait for your significant other to wake up from his drunken stupor so you can hook up. Right. It's like, okay, well, oh, he's pissed out now. I'll just wait till he wakes up. No, no, no. It's fine.

It's fine. HMU, 2 p.m. tomorrow. Yeah. Cool, cool, cool. Okay. 5 a.m.? Okay. Cool, cool.

Awesome. Yeah. And also Sam Elliott is Bradley Cooper's brother and he's 30 years older. This is a plot point that never, I was like, why couldn't he't he like why does the brother have to be elderly but he is and sam elliott's character is his like manager road dog buddy and he's always like you need to take better care of your hearing because bradley cooper's character's hearing is compromised it. See, I don't know that this is an Arizona farm boy accent, but Sam Elliott talks the same fucking way Bradley Cooper does. No, Bradley Cooper is doing a Sam Elliott impersonation back to Sam Elliott.

That's true, because Sam Elliott comes, there's one scene that you can't make a word out of the entire thing, but Sam Elliott walks up with Bradley Cooper's hearing aid, and he's like jack you gotta put this in you're not gonna be here no more and then there's that one scene when he walks up to punch him and it's just a shot of their two faces like just right in front of each other they're barking at each other what the fuck are we doing this movie should have been subtitled for drunken men like they're women do not get drunk in this movie it is only uh useless men who get drunk but they're and then later on i got confused there was

a part where i was like sam elliott works at snl now because she's on snl right why is he there he said he was like i'll tour with will and alan Thought I would stop by and see how she's doing. And he's like, what? What's that? What? Like, he can't hear anything. Because he has tinnitus. He's, damn it.

You know how, like, when you have tinnitus, you can just treat everyone in your life like trash? Yeah. So then at some point, Allie and Jack get married, but he's showing no signs. Dave Chappelle's there. It's a whole thing. Right. And Eddie Griffin. Eddie Griffin's also there.

Yeah. Griffin makes it. Okay. He rolls through. Everyone's at the wedding. Andrew Dice Clay is Allie's dad. Andrew Dice Clay explains the YouTube video counts at one point.

It's a great movie. He's like, you know, for everyone, that's how many people seen it. Yeah. I watched it 200 times. I was like, like oh this is great

it's unclear I'm still not sure where this movie is supposed to be taking place I do think I've reached the conclusion it's Los Angeles

yes I believe so is it but why are they talking like newsies I thought she was upstate New York because they all have New York accents

but then they get on a motorcycle and go to Arizona yeah like 20 minutes and they get there like two seconds so I'm like they didn't drive across the country no but then when lady gaga goes in the house she's like where's the butter no what the the fucking thing exactly it's like this is not new york i

don't think her accent comes and goes like it's nothing let me introduce you to the concept of moving uh people sometimes move from one location to another huh expand on this theory i don't i know there's some inconsistencies where she lives but then she made it sound like they had lived in that house her whole life like she's like dad how many times you carry the piano up for me oh my god okay so this has been a thing a star is born the mystery of where lady gaga's character lives starts a hilarious debate among film critics okay so this has been a point of contention. We don't know where anyone's from. I don't think that's how people from Arizona sound,

but I'm not very well informed. Yeah, I was also trying to gauge where they live together in that house of his. Is that supposed to be the Hollywood Hills or something? I thought so. Oh, yeah. Okay, because at one point she goes like, I have to play the forum tonight.

Will you meet me there? And then she leaves. So it's like clearly if you're somewhere else in the woods. No, I think they lived like LA-ish yeah or some i don't know she's like oh meet me at the forum in two hours and he's right and he's like and then and then he says hey and she says what he says i don't want to look at you but this time it's sad because he's going to kill himself. Right, okay. Oh, sorry. Spoiler!

As she's advancing in her career, he is still drinking a lot. He becomes verbally abusive at different points. He's jealous. He rubs a bagel on her face. There's a lot of icing ends up on faces. Bradley Cooper's got, I'll go on the record, he's got a thing with the cake on the face. There's a lot of cake on the face in the movie. Every top billed actor gets some cake on the face. Dave Chappelle gets cake in the face.

I don't know if Eddie Griffin gets cake in the face, but most people get cake in the face. So then she wins a Grammy because she's become so famous. She's at that point in her career i thought it was a nice touch that lady gaga dressed like a grammy because that's what lady gaga would do yeah her dress is like a grammy dress but at this awards ceremony jack is so drunk that he like stumbles up onto the stage and then pisses himself like on, on the stage. Which, watching now, I don't know why I was like, for sure Bradley Cooper method pee-peed himself, but it's definitely a post-pee-pee.

It's a pee-pee-pee-pee. It kind of looked like he had a tube. Like a tube that was like, we're going to excessively pee-pee. I don't know. You know how you can just sort of tell? Well, I'm a hacker, so I can tell when things are computer. But I'm pretty sure it was computer pee-pee. You think he wouldn't actually have pee-peed himself?

No, I think maybe he tried, but he got nervous. I thought there was like a little pee-pee, little tube pee-pee. A little pee-pee? See, I think it was a practical effect. Oh, really? I feel that way. I feel like this is what I love about movies like this. Someone knows or someone is in the process of trying to find out what the deal with the peepee is.

Bradley Cooper is known for being a practical effect genius. Genius. The hangover. He's basically James Cameron. He just laid in the sun for 10 hours for that facial whatever was going on. It's a bloated red face the whole time. Yeah. I love it okay so at

the award ceremony he pees himself and then he's like oh crap i've hit rock bottom better go to so he goes to rehab and uh ali is all like i still love you we can make this work you're gonna come back home right and he's like uh yeah i think so and it was you that said she way over dresses to go to rehab yeah i didn't think her outfit was appropriate for rehab sure he gets back home he's in recovery and her manager whose name is rez gavran i believe literally british villain yeah british twink villain i've heard of you and i would like to sign you and then she's like interscope records and he literally goes over to bradley cooper's house he's like oh it would be real help if you killed yourself. He basically tells Jack that he has ruined Lady Gaga's career and that they've had to do so much damage control.

So Jack, this prompts him to commit suicide. There's so much to unpack. I was like, the British guy? Yeah. And then there's a tribute song at the end where she's like i'm ali main and she sings a song and everyone's sad this is a ritual this is the end of the movie ritual yeah let's take a quick break and we'll come back and watch a star is born again uh let's take a quick break and then we will be right back. Yay.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project.

All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session, 24 hours. BPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out?

I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams.

Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. They're just dreams. Caché, delicious cuisine, and of course, Lucha Libre. It doesn't get more Mexican than this. Lucha Libre is known globally because it is much more than just a sport and much more than just entertainment. Lucha Libre is a type of storytelling. It's a dance. It's tradition. It's culture. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre.

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Cultura podcast network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. And we're back. Okay, so where do we want to begin with this? Because I just have so many thoughts. I don't know where to start well i personally would like to draw attention to jack's behavior in the beginning of the movie where i think we can apply the buscemi test to this where early on he's apply the not super like you were saying like the not super famous guy i think if someone that hot who is a nobody was doing that shit people would also not be having it no sure i mean basically after they've met for they've known each other for less than 24 hours he's like hey come to my gig tonight and she's like i can't

i have to work no thanks and he's like please though and she's like no i can't she's telling him no several times then he sends his driver to her house to pick her up to follow her right um and then she's like no i can't but then eventually she decides to get on this private jet and go to this gig after all uh and then a few scenes later she's sleeping in her bed and she wakes up and jack is there and she's like how why are you here and he's like oh your dad let me in here i am so this is like dice what are you doing yeah respect your daughter dice what the fuck are you doing back in my day i was a real crooner classic though a good line read by dice we have to remember he is one of comedy's most notorious misogynists.

One of the most successful misogynists in the entire industry. Good for him, though. He did a couple good lines. My daughter. Yeah, he had a great line at the beginning where he's like, take a look at her. To all his buddies, you know, some with the most talent, they just don't make it.

It was like, you fucking asshole. Literally after she comes home starts cleaning up after him and his gross friends although i think it was a super producer sophie who said uh dice is squatted in every scene in this movie he's got like no less than four old men with him just like being like dice is the fucking I think that's his like real life entourage he's like I don't come on set with less than four fucking gross dudes I straight up

the problem I could not figure out that was Dice to save my life because I realized I'd never seen Andrew Dice Clay's eyes because he always wears his sunglasses and that was fucking me up until the last scene of the credits and I'm like it said Andrew Dice Clay and I like felt like a fucking idiot. It really actually took me out of the film a little.

It took me a couple scenes to figure out it was Dice. Which is too bad because I think that all of us right now could play his girlfriend in a thing. I think we're all about the right age. My boyfriend is Andrew Dice Clay. Anna, you know Dice? Dice is my daddy, but you know

what I mean. I'm so sorry about that fucked up stuff I said about Dice. In any case, the behavior that Bradley Cooper's character is doing is troubling. It's stalkery. It's predatory. But because he is a man with fame and power and influence she's like oh how romantic so i was truly surprised how quickly they just started making out i was like really though girl i mean you don't really know much about him other than he's a famous person and seems drunk as fuck they i feel like they try to work around that by saying like oh she does at least go to work but then someone's like you're

fucking late and she's like i fucking quit and then she gets in the limo that followed her i don't know yeah i just didn't and this is kind of like the inception of this relationship changes i think there's versions of it where it's done better in past stars borns and there's also versions where it's like way creepier but they're the first two stars borns happens between actors this one and the Streisand one are musicians but it usually starts with like them they meet she's a little girl from nowhere who just moved to Hollywood to become a big star and she's an extra and she's a waitress and the whole bit and then he like gets her an audition which is less creepy than sending someone in a in a vehicle just to follow her around um yeah yeah i feel like they're really trying to push the like this is an undeniable love situation but that didn't work for me like i

didn't believe that they were, like, undeniably attracted to each other and were just being pulled without their control to each other. And that's why they started, like, you know, almost hooking up almost immediately. Yeah. I didn't trust.

The way it was done in the movie, I didn't believe it necessarily. There's so much in all of these stories. But speaking to, like, the 2018 one as well, that, like, there's so many elements of this story that go completely unexplored. And I think that one of the greatest weaknesses of this story is that it sort of doesn't give the star who is born, a.k.a. the one woman in the movie who talks really, enough. Not even like, it's like Ladyaga is very present in this movie but there are certain

elements of her personality that are totally unexplored because this character that esther blodgett or ally who fucking knows uh is like the woman who stands by her man and it's like the message of this whole franchise is like hey if you're in a relationship with an abusive alcoholic, hang in there. Maybe he'll die. Like, it's just not good. But there's a few, like, okay, some things that occurred to me, and I haven't done a lot of reading about this Star is Born just because I've been too busy watching it over and over.

But some things that occurred to me uh about ali and jackson's relationship that we never address aside from being in a relationship with an addict which we can get to uh because that is like way glossed over like he was mean to her one time like that's not how i know no no but one thing that's never touched on is you know the power dynamics in this relationship from the jump are off and they're off in every incarnation of this story and so i don't i mean i don't even know where i land on this but there's some times where i'm in the story where i'm like well ali like probably would feel weird leaving him early in that relationship even though he's clearly a fucking mess even if

she does like him because her entire career is dependent on him which is a power dynamic he introduced but you know it's i think that that adds some complexity to the her character if it's not just like she's so in love with him and she can't leave because she loves him so much it's like well what if she sort of wants to leave yeah but her entire career is tethered to this one person like that's something that happens in the first half of the movie that i thought would have been at least interesting to acknowledge but that power dynamic is never they're like well they love each other so it's a wash right and correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think he ever does anything to like promise that he's gonna like uplift her career and get her to where that doesn't happen right he's always like i'll get you far he does he does that in in the other versions but i mean i it still feels

pretty heavily implied like if she left that tour it's not like she could just you know like i i think the story would have you believe she needs to be on tour with him at the beginning and you know establish herself as his sort of like right hand singer before she can become you know and meets everybody she has to meet and then she can take off on her own but she couldn't have technically started on this path in this story without him and that's like just sort of a dynamic that they don't acknowledge at all right and i'm not saying that this thing happens in this 2018 one i'm not familiar enough with the other ones to know if this happens. But like it's reminiscent of situations where someone like Harvey Weinstein targets a young up and comer who's like, I'll take you far if you just come to my hotel room or, you know, like making promises.

And what they're really doing is just manipulating and abusing and ruining their lives right it felt like sorry there was a selfishness to his behavior in the sense that he actually didn't want her to grow beyond being a singer with him yes right and that's when he starts to get the kid that's when the cake is in the face yeah right when she starts to outachieve him and she does call him out and was like you're jealous but uh it's like i do like the part where she lets him headbutt a tv that's fun or she's like you want to play let's fucking play and then he headbutt the tv and she's like oh because he just like passes out into it yeah and then she gets the cake off her face she goes what the what the fuck is this? I love this movie.

I did want to see more. See, that thing is like a lot of her attitude came out in the beginning and then sort of just became passive at the end. Like she didn't defend herself. She didn't stand up for herself. She just kind of went along with what people told her to do. That's the thing. Like she doesn't have much agency in this story. Things happen to her.

But she's not necessarily, I mean, you could say like, you happen to her right but she's not necessarily i mean you could say like you know the the hard work she's put into right being a singer and you know working on her craft but we don't really see that what the story picks up basically right before she's propelled to stardom so right we i mean we at least get the moment of like we know she's good enough she has what it takes it's not like they need to fake her talent at any point. Right. Which I appreciate it. Sure.

It's not like a, what's that fucking movie with Meryl Streep and Hugh Grant? Florence Foster Jenkins. It's not a Florence Foster Jenkins sitch. Right. But yeah. But everything happens to her. Yeah. So she's not necessarily going out and making active choices.

And arguably that's because it's Bradley Cooper's character who's the protagonist of the story, who's driving the narrative. But it would still be nice to like to see her, I don't know, just be more active in the pursuit of something. But it's a lot of stuff happening to her and her kind of rolling with the punches. Yeah, it does seem like there's this overall like male savior vibe throughout the entire film like it's very broad because it starts with him you know giving her her first break to like that guy being like i'll make you know signing interscope records and then it ends with him killing himself because he's like i'm doing this for you so you can go on and live your life without being dragged myself again yeah like i'm here for like this is all because of

you i'm trying to make your life better and it's like she could have easily have succeeded fine and gotten her life together had you have not killed yourself and also it's 2018 she could have divorced yes right like there's there's there's a lot of like missed like 2018 things that you're like you would think that it would go more challenge, but just doesn't. Which is, I mean, I don't know. I still love the movie so much, so it's hard. But there's so much where it's like she really doesn't have another element. I think we've already talked about this because we've been talking about this movie for a week.

Where Ally does, I mean, we see the sort of song she's writing at the beginning. She's, ah, and then when she becomes a pop star, that goes away. And all of a sudden she's like, why would you do that, do that, do that, do that, do that. All the songs are good, but they change, right? She becomes a pop star. And there's one scene, because she does, she sells out immediately, which is not even a comment on the character because we don't really know her well enough to know what her code of ethics with this

is sure but you know the the british guy is like you go to die your hair and learn to dance and so she does and then there's one scene the one scene in their entire relationship where bradley cooper is an alcoholic and mean to her he comes in she's in her fucking grammy bathtub or whatever and he's he's he's like so what we're singing songs about ass now uh which is figured out which is like one of the only good points he makes in the entire movie that goes totally unexplained like He points out, hey, you have changed a lot, and you are... And he's saying that partially because he's jealous,

but also there is an element to that character where he's a pure artist, or he thinks he is, and he looks down on people who aren't like that. He should have approached it differently. Right, because also in that conversation, he's telling her that she's ugly and that she has no talent.

That she's an embarrassment now because of how she's taken her opportunity and used it to become this pop star. Or just mostly, I don't know, I guess let go of her true inner musician to cater to people who will give her that kind of attention and money. Which isn't, I think that's a really interesting theme that they drop after that like that it's just because as flawed and bad and as much of a sign of like this is a toxic relationship as that scene is he makes that point and she's like no that's my song i wrote it it's great and then it's like but we know that it's i don't know that was one thing where i was like that would have been another interesting element to this character but the story is so committed to making her a perfect angel that she's a boring character sure i would also real quick argue that there's some gratuitous nudity in that scene because why does it take place in a bathtub and

then she stands up out of it and you like see her whole naked body just a quick glimpse of it but it's like that's a theme in the past stars is Born where they hang out in bathtubs a lot. Oh, OK. Like the actual scene where she's putting on makeup on him. Like that happened in the Streisand version. I think it happened in the Garland version. It does happen in the Garland version. OK.

I would argue that we didn't necessarily need that nudity in that moment. But maybe I'm just a prude. I didn't need it, but I can't wait to rent it on itunes and pause it so um another thing that i thought could have been explored far more that wasn't is the sort of pressure that is placed upon usually women in the entertainment industry to change the way they look and cater to a specific image that like whatever studio or record label is foisting upon them. Because early on in the film, Allie is talking to Jack, I think it's like the night that they first meet and she's describing, right, she's like, oh, you know, I haven't gotten my break in this industry yet, because you go into these rooms,

and there's all these men looking at you, and they you that you sound great but you don't look great and she expresses some insecurities about her nose and stuff like that so she's talking about this and then she gets her big break and it starts to work out but then her manager is like we need you to dye your hair blonde and you know don't tell the dancers not to go on stage to build on that point it was almost as if they couldn't acknowledge that her looks didn't matter until she got signed off by another man to be like hey well i approve and then they're like oh well if you approve that we totally yeah yeah exactly but the entertainment industry has like a very long troubling history of like shaping women into yeah you know the person that whatever studio wants

them to be for example uh you can take a look at judy garland's career where she was like forced pills to like keep her thin keep her peppy and eight years old yeah right and then you know there's other examples garland was also famously molested by Louis B. Mayer himself when she was like 13 or 14 years old. So it's like, oh, but yeah, they different, you know, the studios, networks, record labels, you know, have an image in mind for, you know, whatever young ingenue they are trying to build into a superstar and they basically decide, okay, here's what you look like. Here's what you're going to wear. Here's what you're going to act like. And I think that backup dancers. Right. I think the movie could have explored that a lot more, but that's not the story,

I guess. Especially because it's like, you have Lady Gaga here. You have a fucking expert on this topic in the room. She can tell you, but I don't know this is this is also i believe this is the only version of this script that is written entirely by men there's usually at least one woman involved uh but this is there there's a lot of themes that go like surface explored like i think that they're trying to make a statement by like Lady Gaga's nose.

But then she's famous anyways. And like, cool. But it is it's also surface where she basically still ends up folding to all of their demands. And that ends up working out in her favor. There's really no consequence for that happening. So like, what's the comment? Like, do it. Right. there's really no consequence for that happening so like what's the comment like do it right there is a part of them smart i think that like she does kind of decide to just give it and take it into

her own hands and be like fine i'm going to do all this but i'm going to do it my own way like when they said oh make your hair platinum blonde she's like no i'll do orange which weird choice but there is things that i think like oh well she was actually like even though it wasn't necessarily the right choice and it was selling out she made the choice to sell out which is well it's like i don't even care that this character sells out i'm not even critical of her for that but it's like they don't even talk about that they don't even look at that they're just like they're like well this is what happened i'm like but this is the star who's born why don't we get to hear what she think about nothing right it's still the whole thing is it's about this woman but it the whole story unfolds from the point of view

of fucking the men around her yeah you have to see i mean you know as much as i love seeing bradley cooper and sam elliott crying together in like three different scenes it's like okay we there's there's there's so much i mean and then the last big note I had for things that go unexplored in Allie's character is her relationship to her father, where there's a scene that I find so frustrating with Allie and Dice is towards the end of the movie. And it's after Jackson peeped himself and now he's in rehab and she's like, eat your supper, breakfast. Sorry, I'm stressed, the whole thing. And Dice, it's already been acknowledged several times that Dice is also an alcoholic.

Seems to have had a drinking problem. That tracks in terms of children of alcoholics very often end up with alcoholics. R.I.P. me. Same, though. I mean, we've got evidence in the room. But he starts to apologize to her. Dice starts to be like, I'm sorry I wasn't a better father to you. And I think her character acts, I mean mean it makes sense that this would be a conversation

that would happen but in terms of moving the plot forward i found it very frustrating because she's like it's totally fine it's totally fine you were supportive of my music career you carried my piano up the stairs once and you like paid attention to me in that way it's fine you didn't do anything and then dice goes you're the best fucking person in the world i was like are you kidding me something i know you know just throughout a lot of movies or just even in real life is that women no matter what even if we get the abuse and we have to take it we still have to be the ones to make sure the men are okay right it's like she's the one going through it but she's still reassuring her father that he's okay making sure he eats it's like she literally had to go on

the grammy stage and while her husband peed himself and she was like we're having a lot of fun tonight like that was the most cringeworthy moment where you're just trying to just like keep your shit together for your trash ass husband she's so accommodating and it's it is frustrating because it's like these people around you are fucking up and you're just taking care of them and like not reacting to it and if that's a part of who your character is fine but like show us that and show us that it causes her pain outside of like you hurt me which happens like three times yeah yeah that moment where she forgave him i was like bitch you need to slap him across the face because they're just being like you hurt me and him being like and that's like another like if if this movie was a different kind of movie it could have explored

the dynamics of an abusive relationship where it's not like if you're in an abusive relationship it's out of the question that someone would say something really fucked up to you and you would say, I forgive you to avoid further conflict. But it's presented to us as like they love each other and they're working through some stuff. But that doesn't, I mean, in context seem to be the reality of this relationship at all. Also, a question that goes back to our Fifty Shades episode. What amount of time does this movie take place no idea that is a good question i think two years max the only time that we know has passed is when he says he's been at rehab for two months that is the only time where they acknowledge time

time yeah time and location are not important 24 hours where they meet and then a few hours later she's on a private jet to go to his gig and sing with him on stage it's crazy uh we gotta take a quick break but let's explore this more when we return Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country

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I have a quick comment about Jackson Maine's character. Compared to past versions of this character, the first one is Norman Maine. I believe the second one is also Norman Maine. And then does Christofferson have like a weird... He's like John Norman Howard. John Norman Howard, yeah. They're all variants. And then Jackson Maine, all variants in the same name.

Bradley Cooper's, I think one of the adjustments made that I don't even know how I feel about it. I think it's just kind of like it makes sense, but it also creates a lot of problems that we've been talking about, is that Bradley's Jackson Maine is, of the four, by far the least despicable version of this character and by far the most lovable. Yes. Because the previous three are drunk in ways that are more violent. I believe in the first one she literally is hit. In the Streisand one one he cheats on her

there's like more clear implications of like this is not a good guy yeah which makes it more frustrating at the end where she's like I love him but also creates I mean a more discussable relationship or a more real relationship that could actually have happened where bradley cooper is sort of jackson main presented as like as far as we know he never cheats on her as far as we know he is mean to her one time right and and there's a cake in the face but he's pretty good natured about everything and he stays generally supportive i i feel like just based on uh talking to my my friends about it last night because i was like oh i wonder like what the because i think if you left any of the first three no matter how you feel about it

you leave being like i it sucks that he killed himself but he was a bad guy and he and he wanted to hurt her yeah you know and in this one i i think you leave like oh brownie cooper he was so nice but so like they they make adjustments to the character that kind of neutralize it it makes it harder to criticize him and I don't even know how I feel about that but it's just weird right a lot of that also feels like the reason Bradley Cooper's like the worst he gets is you know peeing on stage and you know berating her a little while she's in the bathtub is that also just feels like the industry working behind Bradley Cooper to be like well i mean you'll be a shitty drunk but we're not gonna have you hit her because we don't want people to see you in that nature you know like there's

something working there where bradley has that control over how his character like as how evil his character can be sure so it's like you're yeah like you come away from watching this relationship different than any of the other three. It's almost like cheesier and sweeter than any of the other ones where he's the best guy out of all of them, but he's still awful. And I don't even know. It's just like it was a change that I get why, like, obviously I'm not like, man, I wish he hit Lady Gaga. But because like his alcoholism is portrayed in such a it's more like goofy and embarrassing than dangerous and harmful. Right. In the way it's portrayed.

It just kind of it just makes it bizarre. And it's not I mean, not that movies have to be a realistic portrayal of everything, but it just the way that relationship is you leave kind of still liking him in a way that i don't think that character is supposed to work and anna you touched on this where like him committing suicide is like this act of sacrifice and he's doing it for her and it also makes him seem like kind of a martyr and almost heroic, where it's just like a pretty irresponsible way to frame suicidality. I do appreciate that the movie does acknowledge alcoholism as a disease because addiction is a mental illness. And I think that a lot of people still don't quite realize that.

And that's because of the stigma surrounding mental illness and things like that. So at least, I mean, could it have been explored more? Sure, especially because that's a huge component of this movie. Right, there was just mostly one conversation with him in his rehab person. And the line is, it's a disease. I did love that. Lady Gaga should have broken up with him in that scene, but she doesn't. She just goes, it's a disease.

That's what is really frustrating to me about this movie, is that even though he is not the worst of all the renditions of this character he still mistreats her he still puts her in positions where she's constantly worrying and suffering and all this stuff and like and maybe this is just the cynic in me where i'm like she should have fucking left him and like not put up with this bullshit but like i wish the ending that we saw to this movie is rather than him killing himself she leaves him and she goes on her own path and that would have been a great like updated version of how the story goes because that is like a convention of he always kills himself the first two he runs into the ocean drama and then when

he like drives really crazy and then gets in a car accident or something. I don't even think it's like technically a suicide. I don't know. It's basically the boyfriend husband of Barbara Streisand who was producing it said he can't kill himself because that would make him weak. So it has to be like an unintentional death, which is just like fuck off. Yeah. So the third one isn't technically a suicide.

But that is like canon to the story that he kills himself. And then she goes to a function and says, I'm Mrs. Maine. And that's, we love that. Yeah. That's when we find out what her last name is. It's the last name of the man. Sorry, real quick, can I ask you, is this the only one that he goes to rehab? Usually he goes to jail.

Jail. Usually he does. But in the first two. The Streisand one, I don't think In the first two. The Streisand one I don't think does anything. I don't know the Streisand one. The Streisand one I think is the only version where he cheats on her. Right. And then in the first two, the husband does something drunken disorderly and goes to jail and she has to bail him out of jail.

So I think that that's the 2018 version of jail. They all have like a Grammy award show meltdown, though. Oscars or Grammys. Yeah. Okay. Bottom line is updates were made to the various renditions of this story. So I think an update could have been done to the ending where he doesn't kill himself. And instead, she's like, I'm not going to put up with your behavior anymore.

And the shit that you put me through. Goodbye. And then they meet up 10 years later. And he's like, I've been sober for 10 years. through goodbye and then they they meet up 10 years later and he's like i've been sober for 10 years yeah and then they can get back together whatever or they don't and then she does the thing where she traces her face i keep doing that to my boyfriend's face. He doesn't like it. Well, brag. That's harassment. Thank you. I'm just like a face tracer.

It's not good. You can't just do that to someone who hasn't seen a sorcerer's work. You can't just do that to someone in CVS when they're not expecting it. You cannot do that. It's bad. Just a quick face trace. But yes, I totally agree that a version of this where she leaves him would have been so effective. Or if they're like, no, she absolutely cannot leave him, then explore why other than she loves him.

They love each other. That sinister. Another thing that I was talking about with feminist icon Alice Wetterland, because I need to talk to everyone I encounter about A Star is Born now. Sure. Is her take on, and I think this is a good point, about the nature of suicidality of the way the British manager comes at Bradley Cooper's character at the end and is like, kill yourself. He really does he literally i mean that's that's that whole scene and she made the point of like you know someone with suicidal tendencies it just skews what that actually is and makes it bizarre of like you know someone committing suicide very

suddenly it's usually prompted by something small and like it's it wouldn't just be like i don't know spreading the idea that suicidality is spread by someone saying kill yourself is just a total misrepresentation of what that sort of depression is like it's usually something little like and and that could have so easily happened in that same scene where it seems more likely like the the some like a manager like that would be like passive aggressive and pretending to be nice and maybe that is something that triggers him because he understands i don't know it was so this movie is over the top the movie it does set up that he has had suicidal ideation before when he was a much younger guy but yeah i think that it was not handled the most responsibly i think that what

happens at the end of this movie is like a very 1950s understanding of suicidal ideation cowboy hat his character hasn't evolved from that era like his character's still like the gruff guy right i have to wear socks my shoes you know i'm a man like he doesn't no drink he's no yeah he's not a touche he's not progressive in any manner like he's still the old guy who's like he didn't go to the women's march yeah no yeah where's your fucking pussy hat yeah bradley there i like that last shot of him he like puts his hat down and he's like all right i'm laying this down for the last time. It is such, and he's drunk.

He dies drunk. Or is he on like pills? He's something, he's definitely messed up. He took some pills. He's staggering. He's staggering. Staggering. Yeah.

And then it ends with, this is pretty consistent across the four the star whom is born is depressed and then is asked to do a function in which she sings a song and then she introduces herself as mrs i think in the first two it's mrs norman main like she doesn't even use any of her names so this one she says it's my name is ali main defining herself as she relates to a man. Right. I mean, which wouldn't bother me as much if we knew what her maiden name was. I never had a last name before I met my husband. I was one of those people. That is exactly what she says.

An Allie critique. Not a critique. World critique. Sure. There are no women in Allie's life. No. At all. And. There are no women in Allie's life. No. At all. And this is not addressed once.

Well, interestingly enough, she relates most to the women in drag that she works with at the beginning. Or they're men in drag. I said women in drag. Drag queens. Drag queens, yeah. Yes. She worked at the drag bar. And then it's clear that she's known the drag queens for a long time.

And then she has, oh, what's the name of her friend? Oh. Ramon is Allie's friend. He's an ally to Allie, if you will. Former Hamilton actor. Really? Oh, I miss that. Only the best in A Star is Born.

Wow. Oh, my God. Wow. He's good for him. And he's also, he's a part of that system that pushes her to go and... Yeah, he encourages her to like, hey, this guy who's creeping on you and sending his driver into your house, go and hang out. Yeah, when she goes to his door when he's passed out, he's like, wake him up, shake your titties at him. Which is like, that's how Trump's to is like yeah he's maybe not a great friend but there are no women in alley we don't know anything about

ali's mother mom in the earlier versions with esther blodgett her her mother is in various conditions of being alive but she is acknowledged at any point we don't know anything no he never references the mom we do know what happens to jackson's mom but she's also killed off and first for what you know her death doesn't impact him the way his father's death does it's just all all the narrative impact is coming from men doing shitty stuff in real time or the shitty stuff men did back in the day where so much of jackson's alcoholism is attributed to the fact that he was dad's drinking buddy and you want to knock one back it'd be dad's drinking buddy and i

do feel like maybe implied sorry i mean to cut you off oh i could have kept going i'm sorry i mean to interrupt your sam elliott impression um that he was dealing with tinnitus because it they do say that at a very young age that he may have gone in for putting his head in, like, you know, the record player. Oh, a gramophone. Yeah. So I feel like a little part of it is implied that he drinks a lot

because of that tinnitus that he's just trying not to hear that tone. Yeah. I kept forgetting about the tone. Me remembering he had tinnitus was in and out the whole movie. Because there were some points where you're hearing his tinnitus sure in the sound design but then i was like oh just but half of his dialogue is like what's that because yeah he didn't hear what someone said to him so i was constantly reminded also he says like how's your tinnitus and he's like i'm here with my wife yeah he's like the dude he does change

the subject a lot where you're like god you hell. Okay. But I also was confused because he seemed like he got tinnitus at a young age. But then he also tells Allie he was born with an ear thing. So he couldn't hear. Oh, yeah. So he's either like had an ear issue and then also got tinnitus, which is probably just fucking hell. I don't understand how that like if you can't even hear normal things, but then there's also like a ringing in your head at all times. That's like a very probably unbearable situation that he should be wearing those like things that they were making for him. Yeah, right.

But I guess it takes him out of the music that he's playing. See, that's the thing. He's making so many excuses to not get better that it's just like there's no justification at all all for like any of his behavior it's just like you're just choosing to not deal with all your own issues and then you bring ally into your life and she loves you so she's not gonna force you to deal with i mean she makes points to be like stop drinking you smell like alcohol we'll see how long it lasts till you drink again like she does make jabs in him yeah but she doesn't fully stand up for herself until that moment they get in a fight when she's in the bath and it's only because he calls her names and says all those rude things like she barely even when she saw he was drinking she doesn't say anything

she kind of lets it go which it seems like as a carryover of how she treated her dad and so it's like i understand why ally gets into this relationship for a few reasons is like he has power in an area that can help her career that's not the only reason she's in this relationship but it's clearly a part of it yeah and you know she's predisposed to uh messy dudes who have alcohol issues but yeah she like never I don't know there's just so and and then any you were saying earlier like the the concept of his like suicide as sacrifice where he kills himself so he won't embarrass her anymore yeah he's like letting her go and setting her free right like actually you're actually causing her quite a bit of pain and that's another like 2018 update that they try to make that kind of rings

hollow is there's that scene with lady gaga and sam elliott imagine that i never would think that would be a sentence but That scene where lady gaga and sam elliott are crying and he's like it's not your fault It's jack's fault and that's it which is like a clearer View of suicide than any of the past movies have offered. Yeah, but that's still not how it's presented when it happens it's presented as a sacrifice but then they're like oh but it's actually not but then it's still i don't know where what is what is this yeah does anyone have any final points well i think it's a great film i really enjoyed it you just have to suspend your disbelief that like women are on the top.

Like it all is just, it's a fantasy of like, oh, I was discovered and I made it. And thank God for this man. Like you really have to just let all that go to go watch the movie and then, you know, slowly think about it later. Because it does, the more you think about it, it's like, okay, like this entire movie is happening because of a guy being like oh you're hot and a good singer you know like that's his whole interest in her was like first i believe it's because she was a good singer and then as he got to know her he's like oh well i'm very attracted to you and i'm gonna make everything happen and then it proceeds to be like only men around her and that's a frustrating thing right it's a great film if you just you don't want to have a good time but don't expect to get a lot

of uh depth when it comes to strong women doing what they have to do no or even women interacting yeah yeah which brings us to the matter at hand wow does this movie pass the bechdel test well sorta there is a conversation between a woman named gail who's like i guess like a stage hand or some like tour manager type assistant person i agree with uh sophie feminist icon gail feminist icon gail shows up ali has known jack for about 18 hours uh she shows up at his gig hi i'm gail yeah gail meets them at the car that just brought them from the private plane or whatever to take them into the venue yes and she goes hi i'm gail so we're all like got her name she's like lady gaga's like hey and she's like how was your flight and then lady gaga's like oh it was great and then she goes oh just leave your

bags and they're like okay and then she's like come great. And then she goes, oh, just leave your bags. And they're like, okay. And then she's like, come this way. And then she goes, wow, it's so big here. And then she goes like, ooh, watch out, because something's coming out. And she's like, oh. Gail's looking out. I love Gail. I hope that that actress just improvised the name Gail.

She's like, you know what? We want this movie to pass the test. I've read the whole script. She's like, hi, I'm Gale. She's like, you know what? We want this movie to pass the test. I've read the whole script. She's like, hi, I'm Gale. Because it's not a character that necessarily makes sense to name, but she really goes for it. She leans in as well. Because we never see that character again. No. She stands

next to Sam Elliott at the concert looking bored as fuck. Now the question has been posed to us if whenever Allie talks to the drag queens queens does that pass the Bechdel test you know I originally when I first saw the movie in my mind said oh that passed because she was talking to the drag queens and then I was like oh wait but does that count and I don't know drag queens when they're in drag you know they're using she pronouns. You know, they're using a lot of, like, feminized language.

But at the end of the day, drag queens are men who identify as men who do drag. I am tempted to outsource this one as well. True. If any listeners have better intel than us, none of us are drag queens, so probably you do. Let us know. For today, I feel like we're saying no on those. That those scenes were correct. But they do happen.

Whatever. It's a gray area. We're not totally sure. For sure, Gail passes. Yes. Yeah. But also maybe the test could be your needs to be updated to be more inclusive. Where it's, you know, if two non-binary people talk to each other, could that pass the Bechdel test?

Could, you know, a gender fluid person and a woman talk, could that pass? So I think it's worth acknowledging that there could be some perhaps updates. Let's call up our friend Allie Bechdel. There is a few seconds because I do think at one point towards the end of their interaction, she goes, he's very excited to see you or something like that. So it breaks the test and they go back to referencing. Also, the whole context is like, hey, you're here to watch a man. So if you factor in context, it's a little murkier. But she does talk to one other woman who is dave chapelle's wife whose name is

never ever acknowledged and i believe the only thing they talk about is like i'll get you a wedding dress to marry him which is i would say also dave chapelle and his family are the few people of color in the whole movie otherwise it's a largely white movie of the four it certainly does the best. You know, two straight white protagonists, that's not pushing much forward. But I think compared to other major releases it does alright. Lady Gaga's

Italian. She does. Why is a boiler out on the counter? Oh wait, Andrew Dice Clay, one of his buddies, is an older actor. Who is that guy? He's a character actor. I've seen him a million times. Yeah. There's a lot of character actors. Like, I feel like I've seen Gale before.

Gale looked familiar. I feel like I've seen the woman who takes a picture of Bradley Cooper at the grocery store before. She's also a character actress that I've seen places. I've seen her a million places. They're pulling a lot of, like, the, like, kind of famous that you see guest star and everything. Yeah. There's a lot of vaguely familiar faces in this movie, including Bradley Cooper's dog,

feminist icon, Bradley Cooper's dog, which is his real dog. Bradley Cooper's real dog. And his real, you're a doctor. Based on my understanding, Bradley casts a lot of people he knew,

like the, the drag Queens he knew. Those are my favorite scenes in the movie. The first 30 minutes is fun. There's comedy, there's jokes, there's drag Queens. I'm having a great time.

And then it starts to, I could not be less thrilled. Yeah, Allie is neutralized as the story goes on. I suppose this is the time where we give our nipples. Let's rate. Nipple-wise. Yes, scale zero to five based on how it treats women. That's right. I'm going to go with a solid two, I suppose, where it's a story about a woman, but we don't get to know her that well. The story is told from a man's perspective, both in terms of the Jack main character and the director and writers and everything like that.

So I think a lot of things that could have been, that like the opportunity was there for the movie to comment on, like the fact that women in entertainment are often held to this insane standard of beauty and image that gets touched on but doesn't go any further than that. Things like Bradley Cooper's character's creepy predatory behavior of beauty and image that gets touched on but doesn't go any further than that things like bradley cooper's characters creepy predatory behavior where she says no i can't come to your gig and he's like okay i'll send my driver to pick you up um you can shut up i'll see you soon is is troubling maybe two is too generous because like i can't really think of anything that makes me think that anything was progressive about this movie.

So I like that there's representation on screen of drag queens. That's awesome. Yes. And also, it's a Lady Gaga movie. Lady Gaga is a queer icon. She is a literal queer icon. I think that every, with the exception of Janet Gaynor, every woman who's ever played this part is a queer icon. Streisand and Garland, I mean, she's in good company.

And that's one last thing I wanted to say about Ali's character that is like a standby of this character that makes Lady Gaga such good casting. Is she's supposed to be a character who is considered a little bit too old to be becoming famous. And she has an unconventional, like she's not like a model in terms of like, and that's why the nose comment and the whole bit. And that's right. Yeah.

Yeah. She's supposed to be like 30 or 31 or two or whatever, like older, not older. And Lady Gaga is 32. But she's 32. But she's 32. Okay 32 okay here's what it i'll give the movie two nipples because of the scene that's basically an exact replica of a scene from

titanic where in a star is born ali's behind like backstage he's trying to coax her on stage to be like sing your song or else i'll plagiarize it. And she's like, no, Jack. No, I couldn't possibly be Jack. And that basically happens in Titanic between Jack and Rose. The name is even the same with Jack. So, yeah, two nipples. I will give both nipples to Lady Gaga because we see her nips in this film. We sure do. I'm going to give it this this version, one and a half.

Yeah. I can't in good... It's weird because I am going to see it for a third time, but, you know, I contain multitudes as well. I reserve the right. Yeah, no, it's like... It is not a story that treats women well. It's never treated women well,

and as to this version, kind of doesn't update it in the way it treats its female character really at all, which is a bummer because it is 2018. And there's in fact, less women involved in the production of this movie than have been involved in past versions. So ultimately, I think by making the alcoholic character more lovable and making the female protagonist taking away her last name we get no acknowledgement of how this toxic relationship is really affecting her uh there are only men in her life that's never called attention to it's like and then there's a lot of like false setups like you were saying caitlin of like she mentions that you know she's like not the perfect western standard of beauty and that's held her back in the past.

But that's never really commented on. And she doesn't seem to mind when they totally change her. And, you know, there's a few moments of like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But she always does it aside from her hair. She always goes through with it. We don't know how she feels about that.

Right. And we don't know how she feels about her relationship. She refuses to tell us how she feels about her relationship with her father. And so the character is there. There's like an interesting character there, but we just don't get at her, which is too bad. So I will see it again this week. I'm going to give it one and a half nippies.

I'm going to give one and a half nippies give one to lady gaga and then i'm gonna give one to um bradley cooper's dog sure i'm sorry the other half um i would give it two i would give an honorary one just for the cinematography i thought it was just very well shot um no strice and ass in this one but you know what i i just really like that kind of aesthetic where you when they shoot like music or just even concert that you feel like you're like breathing it like they get all up in his business which i think is an interesting choice actually though they don't really do it with lady gaga as much they really get into like bradley's like air like you feel like you're like breathing the same areas when

he's like playing but that's my film school background you guys but the real the real i'm really giving it two nips because like jamie was saying the whole like male savior vibe of like you needed a man to make it was kind of whatever like that's not that interesting of a trope like it's kind of like oh okay like it would have been interesting if i don't know they were a lesbian couple who knows like they could have mixed it up in some way so it wasn't just like bradley cooper's chance to be bradley cooper like and everyone kept being like oh how great he is in the film like yeah but he's a great actor like we know he's gonna be fine like we know he'll be able to transform himself like whatever he'll play a d agent next time it's fine he was a different

accent like i'm not super moved by that but like i was very impressed with lady gaga because i've never really seen her act before like i didn't watch when she was an american horror story or anything like that and i thought it was great that she because i know i've read before in the past that she really struggled for a very long time like i believe she was raped at 19 by a music industry person and so she her whole she's admitted that her whole facade of how she would dress up was just like her hiding like from the world and like covering up and wearing all this makeup and having all these wigs and having all this like crazy costumes was her distancing

her real self from like the madness of like you know everyone and people coming at her and so i thought this was like a very strong role for her to be like completely sans makeup, completely sans anything. And while it was, you know, it was acting her like growing into this pop star and you kind of see it happening. It was like a very interesting growth to see within a film that you don't really see. You never see like someone becomes like sell out so aggressively.

Like that's rarely, that trope is rarely done in films unless you're like watching films specifically about industries like acting or music or whatever so that was cool to see and i really appreciated gaga's work and i'm glad she kept the music as pure to gaga as it could be like her voice stayed she didn't try and change it for anything like that so that when i first heard that i was like oh that's lady gaga like that's when you know it's gaga when she doesn't try and change her voice for anyone and she keeps it how it's how it's always been she's got that very powerful voice and i i was moved by her singing i think she's an amazing artist and just a performer who knows what she's doing and yes i did just watch her

lady gaga or five two documentary and i highly recommend it because she's so i don't know you really see her struggle she has like aggressive like nerve pain that like ruins her everyday life where she'll just be like in complete and total like just in a coma of pain and can't move and it's like she has to deal with a lot of that and it's all like from ptsd of being like raped and all the anxiety and trauma from her life that her entire body like spasms in complete pain and she's like gotten through a lot of it now but i don't know she has a very interesting story and i think it kind of parallels a lot of this storyline of a woman becoming less so she made herself you know by herself and not with the help of a man but like there's an interesting juxtaposition of her turning into this person and then you know i have this hope

that ali slowly turns back around and goes back to her original like artist you know self so i give one nip to lady gaga and her performance in this film and another nip to shangla from the drag queen crew who apparently had to be convinced by lady gaga to be in the film and i think her character is so funny in the beginning as like this you know she's just not having it she's not impressed she's like get the fuck out of here i have shit to do and she's so funny to the other drag queen who has him signed his tits like she he already signed your tits stop making him sing for you and the fact that she was in the Virgil is huge. Yes, we've shared a stage

with Lady Gaga. It was great. Two nips, one honorary for the cinematography, which really doesn't matter. One more point for Lady Gaga. As of today, she wrote a long op-ed about suicide and

doesn't directly say it's because of how it's portrayed in the movie, but did a great job. Awesome. So, you know, cleaning up a little bit of Coop's mess, maybe. Sure. So she's just the greatest. She's an ally to us all. Allie the ally.

Yeah. Well, Anna, thanks so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun. Yeah. I've had a great time singing and dancing. We've all been dancing this whole time. Choreography.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where can people find you online? What would you like to plug? You can listen to my podcast with Shireen Younes, who did the Latin episode of this show. Ethnically Ambiguous. We're on the HowStuffWorks network. You can find us on iTunes and whatever. I'm a producer at HowStuffWorks. So i also produce the daily zeitgeist which is the daily

zeitgeist yes news and culture sorry everyone theme song uh you know jamie and kaylin have both been on it um i also produce couples therapy which is a really cool new show that i recommend checking out hosted by naomi akparigan and andy beerman. Two-time alum of Nod. And then I also host an independent podcast called Will You Accept This Rose? It's about the Bachelor franchise and it's hosted by Arden Marine and it's a really fun time and we hang out with batched peeps. And yeah, you can find me on Twitter at Anna Hosnier. A-N-N-A-H-O-S-S-N-I-E-H. You can follow us on social media at Bechtelcast. You can go to our website, Bechtelcast.com.

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one more look at you. Jamie. Thank you so much. Okay, bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist Oh, thank you so much. Okay, bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks.

She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do.

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