The Bechdel Cast - Addams Family Values with Ali Nahdee

Episode Date: June 12, 2025

This week, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Ali Nahdee head to summer camp to discuss Addams Family Values (1993). Here's Ali's YouTube video about the film - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf3iHldULIk as well as the pieces we mentioned - https://www.huffpost.com/entry/thanksgiving-coronavirus-health-indigenous-peoples_n_5fbd44bbc5b6e4b1ea464350 and https://electricliterature.com/wednesday-addams-is-just-another-settler/  Follow Ali on Instagram and TikTok at @alinahdee, and check out her YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/@AliNahdee and her blogs https://the-aila-test.tumblr.com and https://www.tumblr.com/antinativefaves See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific.

And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest runningrunning weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. But there were some dark truths behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. Enter Camp Shame, an eight-part series examining the rise and fall of Camp Shane and the culture that fueled its decades-long success.

You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad-free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait, head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. DNA test proves he is not the father, now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute John, who's not the father? Well Sam, luckily it's your Not the Father Week on the OK Storytime Podcast so we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son even though it was promised to us. He's trying to give it to his irresponsible son, but I have DNA proof that could get the

money back. Hold up, they could lose their family and millions of dollars? Yup. Find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024.

You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's flexible, it's customizable, and it's a personal process. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it.

No. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Dun-nuh-nuh-nuh. Dun-nuh-nuh-nuh. Dun-nuh-nuh-nuh. Dun-nuh-nuh-nuh. Dun-nuh-nuh-nuh. It's the Bechdel cast. Oh, you're going to keep going. Whoa. Well, it failed immediately. Okay. Well, what is a Vexilcast introduction

if not a shocking lack of commitment on both of our parts? I think that that is what it's all about. It's being like, okay, you get the concept, but we're not gonna sing, okay? The podcast is free to listen to. Yeah. Welcome to the Vexilcast. My name is Jamie Loftus and I'm not going to sing.

Oh yeah. My name is Caitlin Durante. I really wish I had the foresight to write out like Addams Family style Bechtel cast theme song. And it turns out I'm not an improviser, so it didn't work out. Well, here we are. And we are doing our second Addams Family episode

with I Feel, the Superior Addams Family movie. But before we get into it, what the hell is this show? This show is a podcast where we take a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. But Caitlin, what the hell is that?

Well, it is just a little media metric that first appeared in our best friend, Alison Bechdel's comic, Dykes to Watch Out For. It has many versions. The one that we use is, do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? And do they speak to each other about something other than a man? And ideally, we like it when it's a narratively substantial, meaty conversation. Not a problem for this movie. Yeah. Let's get into it. We have an amazing returning guest and I want to get her in here.

Indeed. She is the creator of the Alley Naughty Test. She is a content creator with a terrific YouTube channel. You remember her from episodes on movies like Frozen 2, Avatar, Aquaman. It's Ali Nani. I'm here.

Welcome back. Welcome back. I rolled up cause I heard you guys need a nanny. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I might kill you guys and take your money. I don't know. Yeah, I've got this like weird brother who's single, which is a statement that's half true. I have a weird brother, but he's, he's, he's dating someone. It's so good to be back.

I was so excited when you guys asked me back, especially for this video. Welcome back. Yes, because we, I mean, you have made a video on this very movie. Yep. What was it? It was Sara, the fan culture critic on YouTube. She does these prompts for YouTube videos and it's usually like for a positive emotion, like one scene for joy, one scene for forgiveness, one scene for hope. And this one was one scene for resistance

because a lot of people ask me about my opinion about this movie. And I was like, what better way to just dive in? Because it was my one scene for resistance because it's perfect. It's a great video. We're going to link it in the description as well. I mean, just congrats on your channel. It fucking rocks. Thank you so much. I work so hard on it. I'm not monetized because as soon as I turn it into a job, I'll hate it. Sure, of course. So it's just, I need an outlet for this sort of thing. And it's something I've always wanted to do and it's really great

and I'm just very bad at deadlines. So the hard part. But it doesn't matter if it's not your job. It's true. It's a hobby. That rocks. Well, thank you. Thank you for coming back. Yeah, we have so much to talk about today, but let's get started in the way we always get started. What is your personal history with this movie, which I guess we haven't said the title, Adam's Family Values 1993. And you're correct. It is the superior movie. And I don't know, maybe it's because I'm biased because I explain in my video for it that, you know, I grew up in a biracial family. You know, my dad is Anishinaabe and my mother's

white, and me and my sisters, we grew up, you know, not on a reservation, not on unceded territory without like a big Native community like at all. So because my dad was assimilated because his mother and his auntie were residential school survivors, they didn't have a cultural connection either. So when they raised us, it was, we were native and we understood that dad wasn't white, at least visibly. And they would show us like, we still wanted that connection, you know, to the culture and didn't really know how to go about doing that since we live so far away. And a lot of stuff that my parents would do was, oh, there's a movie that has Indians in it, let's show it to them.

And they'll think that's cool, because it's, you know, like their dad, like us, you know, so sometimes it was good and sometimes it, a lot of times it was not, but you know, problematic representation isn't a new thing for natives, but this was one of them and I didn't realize until we get to that specific part why my parents chose to show us this movie and it's been a favorite ever since and I love the hell out of it. I try to go to like, you know, rallies or powwows and stuff because I'm very a pigment challenged. I look more like Wednesday than I do like any of my native relatives. Jamie, what about you? What's your relationship with this movie? I was a late comer to it. I think I saw it when I was a kid, but I, it wasn't, uh, I don't know. I think my mom was just, uh, she's like the Addams family, no Goths in this house, which is why I got so into Goth stuff because my mom said no Goths anyways.

So I got really into the Addams Family as a teen. I love this movie, it's my favorite of, I mean there's only the two, but it is the better one. I feel like this movie really is the best use of The Addams Family that I've ever seen in putting them in fish out of water situations to criticize American culture, which is the point of them. And I don't know, my niece watches, this is unrelated,

my niece really enjoys the animated reboot and they just don't use any of the cool parts of the Addams Family. It's a waste. Haven't seen Wednesday, can't speak to it. But yes, I love the Addams Family. I think that this movie is doing so much and something that I feel like it's hard to find

family films doing now, which is really skewering and criticizing American culture and not sacrificing any funny to like, you know, be super didactic, which is just, you just don't see it a lot. So it's, I think, one of my favorite comedies, I think. I mean, I also think it's wild that any, like, has it happened in other things where,

like, Joan Cusack and Christine Baranski, two women I love so much, very confusing when they're in the same movie. Their vibes are similar. Yes, and then I did, Caitlin, I didn't run this by you before, but I feel like it's just time to say something that it's been five years.

It's been five whole years. 84 years? So another reason that this is an especially interesting movie for us to cover on the show is because we have previously interviewed the director of this movie In one of the very few lost episodes of the buxdle cast you'll never hear it We are very saunenfeld heads on the show, but he was definitely not briefed on what our show is about Or he was and he did not pay attention.

We're not sure. I mean, it's like, he's busy, I get it. Podcast prep, it can be a lot of work. But anyways, it's just a fun fact that something that happened five years ago and we were like, someday we'll say it, it happened. It did happen. We covered Wild Wild West

and you'll never know what happened in that conversation. You can imagine it, you can wonder, but we'll never tell. But I feel like it's okay, I don't know. We talked to our point of contact and she was like, yeah, tell everyone it happened. Well, it happened, history. happened. Well, it happened. History, happened. Well, also at the time, before the interview went the way that it did, we had posted a like a screen grab of our zoom call on Twitter, I think. And then people were like, well, that's cool. And then we just never released that episode. And people are like, what

wasn't that supposed to be something that came out and we're like Don't talk about it Have you guys deleted your Twitter? No, no, it's just sitting dormant. It's just like a fucking graveyard is gone. I was like But yeah, no this happened and he's in the movie as a cameo. He plays a character's father. Yes. And we are fans. We are bury heads. But it was wild. Which character's father? Joel's father, aka David Krumholz's father. Oh, okay. If it was Sarah Miller's father, I was going to be like, oh, evil.

Also, this was the first. I haven't seen this movie in, well, it's not even true. I saw it a couple of years ago. They did a double feature with Casper and Adam's Family Values. Great double feature. So I saw that a couple of years ago, and that was the last time I saw this.

But this is the first time I registered that that's baby David Krumholt. Oh no kidding. I just I didn't know that Bernard was in this film. Bernard the elf. Yeah. Anyways yes I love this movie and that episode exists. Yes. That's all I have to say at this time. Thank you for sharing. I have a pretty limited history with this movie. I probably saw both of the early 90s Addams families when I was a kid, but I don't know something about my household. We were more of a no Goths. It was more that we were we were a Tim Burton household. Top 10 anime betrayals right there.

I know. High-ness 2020. There was a time. I won't vouch for the man now, but yeah, for some reason when it came to like 90s gothy type movies that were mainstream, I mean, my mom fucked up. We should have had these on VHS, but we didn't and I resent her to this day. We weren't allowed to have Tim Burton either.

Anyway, so all this to say, I didn't really grow up with these movies. I think I probably saw them at some point, but I didn't really immerse myself in them until we covered the first movie, which was what, like five, six years ago at this point. Yeah, with the iffy and Danny, I think. Yeah. And while prepping for that episode, I also watched Adam's family values. And these movies are very funny. I love

the jokes in them. I wish I had kind of gotten to them sooner. Also, side note, there is a third movie that I guess is canonically part of the trilogy, although almost the entire cast is different except for the actor who plays Lurch, but there's a movie called Adam's Family Reunion from 1998. Isn't Tim Curry? Tim Curry and Darryl Hannah as Gomez and Morticia. Wow. I have seen that. I guess that's like, I feel like it's its own thing. Once Wednesday changes, it's a different iteration.

I mean, once all day. Once, you know, Angelica Houston isn't there, Christopher Lloyd, or. Flintstones, Viva, Rock Vegas in that way. Right, right, right. Where you're like, what's Jane Krakowski doing here? Yes. So anyway, I don't have much of a history with these movies, but I do enjoy them very

much and there's a lot to discuss today. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No.

How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies, and quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception, lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results. Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye.

Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fatphobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long. You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait, head to Apple podcasts and subscribe today. DNA test proves he is not the father. Now I'm taking the inheritance.

Wait a minute, John, who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your not the father week on the OK Storytime podcast. So we'll find out soon. This author writes, my father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son. Even though it was promised to us, now I find out he's trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back.

Hold up, so what are they gonna do to get those millions back? That's so unfair. Well, the author writes that her husband found out the truth from a DNA test they were gifted two years ago. Scandalous. But the kids kept their mom's secret that whole time.

Oh my God. And the real kicker, the author wants to reveal this terrible secret, even if that means destroying her husband's family in the process. So do they get the millions of dollars back or does she keep the family's terrible secret? Well, to hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast

on the iHeart Ready Web, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political. It's societal. And at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in

expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that are being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves.

Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. And we're back. And we're back! Haley Duff is in Adam's Family Reunion. Sorry, I'm looking at this list.

As Wednesday? No, as Gina Adams. I'm assuming these are... Who? I don't know. I'm assuming she went to the reunion. Gina Adams. Hard to say.

Oh yes, the reunion! Right, right, right, right. Yeah. God, straight to video. That would be a good matriot theme. Just like, cursed straight to say. Oh yes, The Reunion, right, right, right, right. Yeah, this, God, straight to video, that would be a good matriot theme, just like cursed straight to video. Sequels. Sequels, there's so many bad ones.

With an entirely different cast, I always think of like George of the Jungle and- Mortal Kombat annihilation. Just some really gnarly stuff. A lot of actors in debt. Right, debt. Anyways, Adam's family values, which does not suffer from this problem. Not at all. So we see the Adam's family that we know and love. We've got Fester screaming at the moon, Wednesday and her brother Pugsley and their granny are burying a cat alive. Nicole Sarris Hydrocats.

Nicole Sarris Hydrocats. Lurch is playing the organ. Gomez and Thing are arm wrestling. Morticia announces that she's going to have a baby right now. So the family rushes to the hospital and Morticia gives birth. They bring the baby home and it looks like a miniature Gomez with a little mustache in the suit and everything. Wednesday and Pugsley resent the new baby and keep trying to kill it, but their plans are thwarted each time. Their love language. Movie perfectly like encapsulates my dark humor that I've developed over the years. Because every single thing that happens in it is so bad and hilarious. Like they're dropping the baby and hit with bowling balls.

It's comedy. It's stuff. It's comedy. It's hilarious. It's amazing. Yeah. So Morticia and Gomez are trying to be romantic because they're still so horny for each other, but their hands are full with three children. They try to hire a nanny. Cynthia Nixon plays one of the-

Oh my god, I was like, Miranda! What are you doing here, Miranda? Yeah, she's one of the people who is interviewed. Another is Debbie Jalinski, played by Joan Cusack, who they eventually hire. And they introduce her to their baby, who they've named pubert hilarious awesome how did they get away with it we don't know no it doesn't matter um and then did you know that uh david hide pierce is in the delivery room he plays the doctor split second yeah a lot of good cameos in this too yeah so debbie also meets the rest of the family. And when she meets Fester, he's like, hubba hubba, who's that? And then Debbie moves in that night. And then she watches a news report about an unknown serial killer who the media has dubbed the black widow,

because she seeks out rich men, marries them, and kills them on their wedding night so she can collect their money. I don't remember that happening in the Avengers movies. Right, right, right. It would have made things better. It would have been much more interesting. So that's why she showed up in Iron Man 2. I do like that they take the trouble to show like four different pictures of Joan Kiyosaki

in various wigs. I think the disguises were pretty good. I think so. I mean, while Wednesday's right to say that she was sloppy, I still think she was doing it. She was running a pretty good grift. It's not until she met the Addams family and she was no match for them. No.

If she just would have been so upfront, they would have been like, oh honey, you wanted to kill Fester? You want to murder? We love that. That's awesome. She and Martisha really could have bonded, I think. Oh, she should have just joined a polycule, man. And then it's even hotter.

Exactly. Yeah, because that's the whole thing that this, you know, black widow serial killer is Debbie Julinski. And she starts to go through Fester's things and finds all of his assets, there's stocks, there's bonds, there's deeds to houses, all that stuff. And it looks like he will be her next target. But Wednesday is on to Debbie. So Debbie gets rid of Wednesday by lying and telling Morticia and Gomez that

the kids really, really want to go to summer camp. So the family arrives at Camp Chippewa. Ah, it begins. We'll talk about it. Does not mean orphan. It does not mean orphan. It does not. orphan. It does not mean orphan. It does not. They drop off Wednesday and Pugsley at the camp. The kids meet a spoiled rich girl named Amanda, as well as the camp directors, Becky and Gary played by Christine Baranski, and Peter McNichol, who I recognized from Ghostbusters 2. Oh okay yes. They also meet another camper Joel this is the David Krumholtz character and he and Wednesday make eyes at each other. Meanwhile back at the Adams family home

Debbie is there with Fester and she's working on getting him to fall in love with her and she is succeeding. A double date is arranged. Morticia and Gomez and Fester and Debbie they go out to dinner. There's this whole scene where Morticia and Gomez do like a tango dance number. That's a great number. It's great. This movie inspired an entire generation of bisexuals. They didn't know it because it was the 90s and compared to the real thing. Oh, it was, yeah. Everyone in that scene is cooking.

I love that they're like getting off on making the other jealous. Like it's just, it's so good. It's so good. Yeah. And then cutting back to uncle faster doing that. What does he do? He's like showing he's like sticking breadsticks up his. Oh, yes. Just just no, no, it's perfect. Hilarious. And then later that night, faster and Debbie are alone and she tells him that she's a virgin. Obviously she's lying.

But he very sincerely is like, me too. And she professes her like, you know, love for him, AKA she's manipulating him and they get engaged. Meanwhile at camp, Wednesday is having a terrible time among all of the rich blonde children, especially that girl Amanda. The camp directors put Wednesday and Pugsley in this like timeout cabin or it's called like harmony house little David Krumholz is sent there as well he and Wednesday continued to vibe with each other and the three of them tried to escape the camp because Wednesday has learned that her uncle Fester is engaged and she wants to try to put an end to it but the campers and

camp directors catch them and stop them from leaving. They like sing kumbaya at them. They just can't stop appropriating. They can't. Praxic positivity is a weapon. And yeah, oh yeah. Oh my god. Absolutely. So at the house, Fester and Debbie have an engagement party slash like joint bachelor slash bachelorette parties. Fester is still oblivious that Debbie is conning him. Then they have their wedding. The whole Addams family is there, including the kids plus Joel. He got invited to the wedding

and they managed to leave the camp. Then we cut to Fester and Debbie's honeymoon in Hawaii where she tries to kill him by throwing a stereo in the bathtub while he's in it. But it just turns him on. For play, he's like, this is so awesome. So now Debbie is pissed that he's still alive and grossed out because now he wants to consummate their marriage and have sex. Ever heard of it? And she's like, okay, but after we make love, you can never see your family again. And he's reluctant, but he agrees.

Anyone else? Anyone else do that? Yeah, honestly, pretty cool move. You gotta try. He's so upset that he's alive. He's so mad. And then it's like, oh my God, Christopher Lloyd's fucking O face.

Oh my God. That's That scene. I was surprised at how in detail that scene goes into, because I feel like with the kids movies, you usually get an implication, but they're just having a frank discussion about fucking. While he's inside her, question mark? It's unclear. I watched it, I'm glad he's inside her, question mark? It's unclear.

I watched it, I'm glad it's not clear, but the fact that it's a possibility is wild. I think the only reason that it could do that was because Gomez and Morticia are clearly fucking, like, the entire time through both movies. It's true. And the movie even begins with Wednesday, you know, that girl's like,

the diamond under the cabbage patch turned into a baby and Wednesday's like our parents had sex. Hilarious joke. Anyway, so he fester doesn't want to cut ties with his family. He's very reluctant, but he agrees, because he's so freaking horny. Many such cases. The leaps in logic that we all do because of horniness, you know? Yeah. Okay, so then they return from their honeymoon. Debbie is still furious that Fester is alive, but she's kind of accepted that he's going to be sticking around.

So she gives him a makeover with like a bowl cut. It's so funny. He seems to be into it. around. So she gives him a makeover with like a bowl cut. So he seems to be into it. She is a Dom. He is a sub. And then they move into a mansion. While the rest of the family receives word that fester can never see them again. And they're like, what the fuck. So Morticia and Gomez go to Debbie and Fester's new house to be like, Debbie, you succubus, let us see Fester. And then the iconic, but Debbie pastels moment is so good. And I love that Morticia respects the hell out of it. Yeah, it doesn't. it's like you tricked him. You've put him under some sexual seductive

spell. I respect that. But Debbie Pestles. And I love the like, the Angelica Houston lighting. She's just so movie star. Her little eyeline light that just irrationally follows her throughout every scene. I just love it. It's so good. So yeah, they confront Debbie, but she refuses to let them see Fester, who is cowering in the corner,

too afraid of Debbie to defy her. So the family goes to the police and tries to report Debbie parentheses, a cab includes Nathan Lane playing a cop. That was that was a that was a hard one. That was a hard one. But nonetheless, and because the police are useless, they do nothing to help the family. Wow, that's a that's a shocker.

Right. They they never do that. They're usually so competent and oh yeah. Meanwhile the kids are back at the summer camp and the camp directors are organizing a play about the first Thanksgiving. And you know that they're obsessed with this racist story because they're doing it in the summer for some reason. Like, yeah. Yeah. And like, it makes even less sense because that's not even the tribe. I mean, like, it's not going to make sense. It's not the tribe.

Pocahontas was not at the first Thanksgiving because Wednesday gets cast as Pocahontas. They start rehearsing the play. It is horrendous for many reasons. Obviously, we'll talk a lot about this more. But Wednesday, Pugsley, and Joel are like, OK, this sucks. We don't want to participate in your awful play. So they are sent back to the Harmony house

and made to watch a bunch of like uplifting family friendly media Disney movies, Sound of Music, Brady Bunch, Annie, all that kind of stuff to fix their bad attitude. Meanwhile, Pubert the baby seems to be sick or possessed because he suddenly looks like a more traditional cute baby with like rosy cheeks and blonde curls. He likes Dr. Seuss books. He wants the cat in the hat. So good. Yeah. Hubert looks like me when I was a baby because that's exactly what my hair used to look like. Wow. Okay. because that's exactly what my hair used to look like. I don't know. And then I guess

I decolonize because now it's this color and gray. Yeah. Anyway, so they think pubert is possessed maybe because of this like troubled family life ordeal that they're going through, Fester abandoning them. And so they work on trying to fix this. Cut back to the camp, it is time for the Thanksgiving play. Obviously it's very whitewashed, revisionist history version of the Thanksgiving narrative. So Wednesday goes off script, gives a monologue about colonialism, stolen land, modern day injustices that native people face. And then she and the other native characters in the play literally burn the set of the play and tie up that snobby rich girl, Amanda, who had been cast as like the lead pilgrim woman. The whole thing is chaos. It's very cathartic.

STACEY So good. So good. STACEY And then Wednesday and Pugsley escape after Wednesday and Joel share a heartfelt goodbye. Back at Fester and Debbie's house, she wraps up a bomb as a birthday present for Fester once again trying to kill him but he's like oh my god is this a bomb thank you so much but she leaves the house and goes to a bar where Tony Shalhoub is singing Macho Man as you do just didn't you think it couldn't get any better as you do just when you think it couldn't get any better there's tony shalhoub at a bar singing macho man and then i guess the idea is like debbie leaves so that the house can explode and then she'll come back to be like oh no my poor husband but fester survives the explosion so debbie pulls a gun on him and admits that she doesn't love

him that she wants to kill him and take his money. But before she can do any of that thing, the Addams Family disembodied hand runs Debbie over with a car and rescues Fester and they drive off. Lauren Henry Upon this most recent viewing, there's a piece of dialogue earlier on in the movie where Fester was talking about how he's been jealous of Gomez and Morticia's relationship. Gomez says something like, well, you have Thing, and I was like, has Thing been jerking off Fester this whole time? And then Thing comes and saves him from the woman who stole him away from him.

So look, everything in this family is fluid and don't worry about it. What happens in Adam's manner stays in Adam's manner. I also love cousin it and his wife. That was a really fun touch. Yeah. But he's got a, he's got a normie wife and they seem very happy. And then they have a baby and a cute, what a cute kid. I gotta tell you guys something.

Yeah. It was me. I was cousin it. A celeb. Uncanny. Uncanny resemblance. Okay, so back at the Adams family home, Morticia is trying to care for this new version of her baby. And Gomez is like bedridden and dying. Not really sure what's going on there. But then Fester returns home, as do the children. So the family reunites.

But oh no, Debbie shows up with a rifle and puts the whole family in a bunch of electric chairs, shows them a slideshow of all the people she has murdered, her past husbands and her parents when she was 10 years old because they gave her Malibu Barbie instead of ballerina Barbie. Incredible. Incredible. Is that her parents might have taken it too far, but who else does Debbie kill? She kills a doctor because he skipped dinner because the Pope had a cold.

Gotta go. And then she kills a senator and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Yeah. Some of Debbie's crimes you're like... I support it. Yeah, well, you know, whatever. It's valid. Yeah. So meanwhile, the only family member who Debbie didn't tie up is baby Pubert. He's on the loose looking like a mini Gomez again, you know, zipping around the house

and setting in motion a final destination style Rube Goldberg thing that electrocutes Debbie and turns her to dust. We cut to sometime later, the Adams family is safe and together and back to their normal cousin it and its wife Margaret and their baby come over for baby puberts first birthday party and bring along their nanny dementia who seems like a very good match for Fester because they look identical. And Joel also comes to see Wednesday and the movie ends with Joel being like, Oh, Wednesday, I hope we can get married one day.

And she's like, Ooh, gross. Cool it. And then she's like, I'd rather be like Debbie and kill my husband, except she was sloppy and I would get away with it. And then she plays a little graveyard prank on Joel. The end. Da, da, da, da. Oh, and then the credit song is,

I forget what episode we were just talking about this on Jamie, but when you were like, Oh, I miss the days when the credit song was a rap. Oh my God. This is such a good one. This one, it like it makes no sense and therefore it's perfect. Yeah. I love it. What did we, what did they call it officially? It has such a funny title. Oh, I don't even know. Yeah, the last movie I saw that did that recently was PG Psycho Goreman, where they had like some 90s, not 90s, like 80s white rapper, I guess, summarize the video. Okay, it's called Adam's Family Womp. That's what it's called.

Oh yeah, because there's sort of like that whomp there. Yeah, it couldn't be more 1993 if it wanted to be. It's Adam's Family Womp. You are seen, you are valued. Yes, okay, so let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss. quick break and we'll come back to discuss. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone, most of all his wife, Caroline.

He texted, I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. Caroline's husband was living another life behind the scenes. He betrayed his oath to his family and to his community. She said you left bruises, pulled her hair, that type of thing. No. How far would Joel go to cover up what he'd done? You're unable to keep track of all your lies.

And quite frankly, I question how many other women may bring forward allegations in the future. This season of Betrayal investigates one officer's decades of deception, lies that left those closest to him questioning everything they thought they knew. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest-running weight-loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results.

Campers who began the summer in heavy bodies were often unrecognizable when they left. In a society obsessed with being thin, it seemed like a miracle solution. But behind Camp Shane's facade of happy, transformed children was a dark underworld of sinister secrets. Kids were being pushed to their physical and emotional limits as the family that owned Shane turned a blind eye. Nothing about that camp was right. It was really actually like a horror movie. In this eight-episode series, we're unpacking and investigating stories of mistreatment and re-examining the culture of fat phobia that enabled a flawed system to continue for so long.

You can listen to all episodes of Camp Shame one week early and totally ad free on iHeart True Crime Plus. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts and subscribe today. worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us, now I find out he's trying to give it to his irresponsible son instead, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back. Hold up, so what are they going to do to get those millions back? That's so unfair. Well, the author writes that her husband found out the truth from a DNA test they were gifted two years ago. Scandalous.

But the kids kept their mom's secret that whole time. Oh my god. And the real kicker, the author wants to reveal this terrible secret even if that means destroying her husband's family in the process. So do they get the millions of dollars back or does she keep the family's terrible secret? Well, to hear the explosive finale, listen to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeart ReadyWAP Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? guests. Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind VoiceOver, the movement that exploded in 2024. VoiceOver is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships.

It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other.

It's a very, very normal experience to have times where a relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that are being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me, but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it.

Yes. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Ali, we're gonna kick it to you. Where would you like to start? Ooh, okay. Well, first of all, perfect casting all around. Everybody in this movie is perfectly cast. I would love like I know you haven't seen Wednesday and I've only seen like a couple episodes on the Netflix, the Netflix Wednesday. Yeah, but Sabrina Carpenter had Jenna Ortega in her music video for Taste,

and it was a very, Death Becomes Her, very morbid but very funny and very toxic lesbian you know? It's great. And Sabrina Carpenter could totally be Debbie on Wednesday, and I just think that would make things perfect. Oh that would rock young Debbie. They do it right this time. Or it was like Debbie's niece or something like right sure Sabrina Jalinski. Oh I'm waiting. That would be perfect and then wow where else do I begin like I'm going through my notes right now. What else?

There's so many, so many places to start. Oh, someone said on Tumblr or something about how beheading all the billionaires would include Gomez Adams because he's got all that money. And I was like, you know, he would just be so honored. Yeah, I was gonna say, I think he'd be like, you know what, you got me. I deserve it. You got me guys guillotine me. Also, puper has a little baby guillotine on top of his birthday cake and I want one. Amazing. I love usually a movie where the premises and now there's a baby. It's so hit or miss premise wise, but like pupert. Ooh, I love that baby. It's so hit or miss, premise-wise, but like Pupert, ooh, I love that baby. He's a great addition. He just makes sense.

He's just as evil. I love his little mustache. And the story doesn't get lost in like, I don't know, like what? Now there's a baby, which I just feel like it's a very tired plot point. Like, yeah, there's a baby. The kids are trying to kill him.

Classic narrative, yeah. And he's kind of loving it. Yeah, he fits right in. I love that Wednesday plays with a guillotine with the baby dressed up as Marie Antoinette and that was, children, pay attention to comrade Wednesday. Fun fact, Pubert the baby is played by twin babies as like children and babies often are in movies because it's like they need a break we'll swap out this one for the other one.

Yeah. But the babies are twin girls named Kristen and Caitlin Hooper, but Caitlin spelled the wrong way. So I can't forgive that. So the baby with the little mustaches, that's adorable. Oh, nice. Something that stood out to me, I mean, this movie is doing so much cultural commentary. Obviously we are going to spend a lot of time on the Thanksgiving play.

I just wanted to shout out a few other things that popped out that I had to put on 1993 goggles to understand. There's a few contemporary references. There's obviously the Michael Jackson reference, which I had to do, I mean, I had a feeling why it was included, but I was like, where was that cultural discourse at at the time? And it ended

up being actually quite personal to the movie specifically because Michael Jackson was originally going to appear in this movie. And so yes, I'm pulling from scholarly journal Wikipedia here. He was supposed to have a song in the movie called Family Thing. The song is rumored to have been removed due to the child's sexual abuse allegations against Jackson, but the truth is it was a contractual difference. So we don't know if they would have included it if they could have. It seems like they probably wouldn't have because of the way he's referenced. That yeah he's referenced like visually and Joel is terrified of him, which I'm sure got a big laugh in 1993.

I personally don't like when they use his appearance to like seem like that's the source of horror when it's the act, maybe just don't reference him at all. And then I felt the same way about the Amy Fisher reference which is also so 90s in a way that like, in a movie that generally is pushing back on popular narratives. I don't know, listen to the You're Wrong About episode

about Amy Fisher. It's like a classic mischaracterization of a teenager who is being groomed. So there was that. I also didn't know that the title is a reference to a Dan Quayle speech, question mark? Yeah. Okay, also pulling from scholarly journal Wikipedia here.

Of course. The family values in the film's title is a tongue inek reference by the writer to a 1992 speech called Reflections on Urban America made by then vice presidential candidate Dan Quayle. In the speech, Quayle controversially blamed the 1992 Los Angeles riots on a breakdown of quote unquote family values, which is, you know, we don't need to tell you that's unbelievably racist, but I just didn't realize that the title was pulling from something, yeah, both like very recent

and very specific. And that is a cultural reference that I'm like, yeah, that's a fun fuck you to Dan Quayle. Similarly, I would say that there are a couple jokes in the movie that just feel quite reductive. Most of the jokes in the movie are hilarious and great and I have a list of my favorites, but there's a few- For 1993 is an accomplishment.

Truly. That more of it ages well than doesn't. Definitely. There's a joke that implies that Gomez and Fester jerk off to a pinup style nude image of their mom and we're like, okay, incest joke. I missed that part. Dang. Yeah, that's there. There's a joke that's judgy toward anyone who has had cosmetic surgery that Wednesday makes. So the word's like, oh, all the girls woke up with their original noses and they're like, ah! So she's

like, shamy of that. Christopher Lloyd is in a fat suit to play Fester. So, you know, there are some things that don't age very well, but... As a person with an overbite, let me tell you when... Oh, yeah, that one. Is that your bathing suit? Is that your overbite? Oh, brutal. Oh, brutal. Yeah, I guess with the joke about nose jobs, I felt like that was, yeah, cruel of Wednesday, but I felt like they were trying to get at the waspiness of the girl she was talking to.

It could have been a different joke. That's the thing, she could have commented on her, whatever, class privilege or something, didn't need to make a dig at anyone's appearance, but she does that a couple times. She also tries to kill a baby. I mean, problematic behavior all over. You love it.

Problematically. Yeah. And then, I mean, yeah, the big discussion to have here is the summer camp itself and then the specific play that they put on. But yeah. So overall it's, I think a pretty effective satire of like American summer camp culture,

where it's this camp for like privileged children who are just children with rich parents. Almost every child there is white. Almost all of them are blonde. Like you see shot, like wide shots of like 40 kids and they're all just these blonde children. There's commentary on class and white supremacy and how non-native people and especially white people appropriate indigenous cultures, treat

native people as a monolith, act as though native people don't exist anymore, that they're a thing of the past. G- Completely make up the name, like say that the name of the tribe is, because it's not orphan. What happened was is that Chippewa is what the colonizers heard when they said Ojibwa. And they thought, because how you spell it, and I'm sure how you say it, before there was like a written language for these words, they were like, oh, Chippewa, instead of Ojibwa or Ojibwe. You know, so that's what it is. It doesn't mean orphan. I forgot what it means. It means something It means something very weird Like if I recall correctly, but I forgot what I can look it up somewhere

But one racist brain cell to be shared among these colonizers. It's just like so I was curious. I guess I was curious if either of you, I hadn't thought about this in a long time, but I was talking about this movie with my brother, and we grew up in Massachusetts where misrepresentation of Native history, I feel like is particularly egregious. And we were talking about, it wasn't a camp quite like this, but it's one of the,

or at least at the time in the late 90s, early 2000s, was a default field trip that you would take in public schools to a place called Camp Squanto in Massachusetts. And so I did a little bit of research into it, because again, this seems like it's a very, the camp that the Adams are going to is a rich kid camp. This is a publicly owned camp that I think mostly

Boy Scouts use, but it has this very racist history that it doesn't seem like unlike, you know, at very least there has been pushback on the way Plymouth Plantation, another field trip I had to go on, is portrayed, there hasn't really been any motion on camps like this, but I just wanted to talk about it a little bit because I do, like once my brother brought it up, I was like, oh, I clearly remember going to Camp Squanto as a kid, which is, you know, Squanto is yet another

like misrepresented name. I looked into how the website portrays and I'm gonna make sure I'm saying his actual name correctly. It's Tisquantum. And he's a popular falsely portrayed cultural figure in Massachusetts. I learned about him all the time growing up

and the narrative that is attributed to him is that he was an indigenous person who helped the pilgrims and who like, you know, helped them understand how the land worked. And he was presented as like helpful to colonizers and that that was a good thing. And that's why they named this weird camp after him. The camp, and it seems like a lot of similar camps like it in New England. There's also a camp squanto in New Hampshire that's even worse because it's an explicitly Christian camp, which makes it's, what do you even say? This is the way my eyes just got huge.

say. The way my eyes just got huge when you said that. I was like I don't want to bring these but yeah it's Camp Squanto invites campers to experience the love of Christ outside of four walls in a unique transforming environment. This wasn't the place I went it was a federally owned piece of land but nonetheless it is a piece of land that is dedicated to teaching kids, most of whom are not native, this false version of Tusquantum. It opened in July 1925, so it wasn't even originally integrated, obviously, by the time I went, it was, but it was a camp for white kids all over Massachusetts to learn a false version of history. And to this day, it is very popular. It is still where Boy Scouts will go and camp year round.

And I guess I just, I don't know, I hadn't really connected that even though it's not the exact same kind of camp, it has a similar mission, which is just miseducation and misrepresentation of history to serve the American project. So that's unfortunately Camp Squanto. And this movie seems very aware

of all of these types of camps that are all over. Yeah. Turtle Island and is satirizing them by way of this play that goes a little differently than the camp directors are expecting. So yeah, Ali, we're curious on your take on this. Well, okay, first of all, I remembered that Ojibwe, the word is like kind of in reference to this is so silly, like puckered up is more or less because the way that they would wear our moccasins is like, I don't know, the moccasins have like puckered seams or something like that. So it's like, oh, puckered up or something. So that's kind of what Ojibwe means. But obviously Anishinaabe would be more correct. Anyways,

it doesn't mean orphan. It means puckered up. God, I wish it didn't sound so dirty. The Thanksgiving scene. So I, like I said, I did a video about this on YouTube. And the thing that I really love the most about this scene was, you know, first of all, it came out like, I don't know, a year or so before story of Pocahontas has been told for, you know, since the 1600s. People have like a vague, very whitewashed understanding of that story anyways. So it's familiar. And then Disney just made it worse. But it's just so interesting that this movie is so honest about the lie of not just, not just Pocahontas, you know, they don't really dive into that story.

It's just, oh, this is a play about Indians and Pocahontas is an Indian. So let's just, you know, throw her in there to make Wednesday uncomfortable, but just how honest it is about the lie of Thanksgiving. And not only the lie of Thanksgiving that we tell, or, you know, the nation tells children, but how the other parents in the audience very clearly are racist against Native people. And that's something that really stood out to me when I was little. You know, I saw this movie probably when I was like four, I want to say three or four. And I understood, you know, at a very young age, just from like, what my parents taught me. And then later when I would like go to school and stuff, and interact with

people who had never seen a Native person, like until my dad. My dad was probably the first, if not the only native person that a lot of the white kids in my schools ever saw. So probably one of the very, very few that the teachers had to like interact with also. So it's like, I understood at a very young age that there are adults and parents and teachers that are lying about what happened to the Native Americans, not just at Thanksgiving or even with Pocahontas, but throughout history. I realized that teachers will lie about this. They'll probably even know the story and still lie about it,

just because it's a prettier version. It's a more flattering version. It's more quote unquote appropriate for children. And it's like. Who's children? I got into an argument about this with one of my mom's coworkers years ago, who teaches at an elementary school and

it was like this looping thing of I was like well but you know that's not true and you know she was like well but that's how are you supposed to explain that to children I was like figure it out I don't know it's not true that's your job as an educator but it was this idea of like well it's a tradition to tell this lie. And like, she really felt that. And it's it's I think that there are a lot of people out there who still really don't want to face their own discomfort of having to explain this. No, not at all. But yes, just like how the movie really just called that out, especially like in the early 90s, like people will have difficulty calling it out now, let alone, you know, back when I was

three years old. So Wednesday, not giving them an inch. It's like I like to think that she just sat in that, that cabin and watched all those movies and just was like, Oh, I'm plotting how to get back at all of you. Just orchestrated all of this. I will say though, that the scene as amazing as it is, it's still pretty problematic. Yeah, it's like context matters, but racial stereotypes are still racial stereotypes. If you look at the native, the kids that are dressed up like natives, a lot of them have really darkened skin. I point that out in the video. I was like, wow, they really just like darken this kid's skin for the play.

And it's racist. I mean, the whole play is racist, but. Right. It's tricky because, like, of course, these racist camp directors would put these children in brownface. They would cast. And it's not even predominantly white people, because another thing with that is that the campers who are cast to play native characters are like the, quote unquote, outcasts in the camp. Like there's a disabled child who's Jewish, there's a kid who is fat, there's an Asian kid, there's a

Latina kid, there's a black kid, a nerdy kid. Like all the quote unquote outcasts who are not these blonde children. Like descendants of pilgrims, yeah. Right, and that is like commentary of like, of course these horrible camp directors would put children who have been othered by society, you know, cast them in the role as the native characters in the play, but the movie also others those children.

And again, it's like, yes, of course, these horrible camp directors would put those children in brown face. But like the movie isn't doing a ton to push back to be like, let's get to know these kids. Yeah. Yeah, we get more time with how terrible the white kids are than we are with, you know, how cool these kids are actually.

Like, when they should have interacted with them more. Yeah. white kids are than we are with, you know, how cool these kids are, actually, like, Wednesday should have interacted with them more. Yeah. Yeah. Why doesn't she befriend, like, Jamal and Consuela and the other children who she has been outcast with? Right. Like, and find community with them. Anyway, so- I mean, it's not really her thing. Wednesday, in fact. That is true. That is true. But even Pugsley, I mean Pugsley who, I do kind of like that it's canon to the Addams Family universe that Pugsley,

you know, we can kind of take or leave him. Yeah. You know, he's in a couple scenes, but he's not putting butts in seats, you know? He seems like a sweet kid. I like his, his performance as the turkey was very funny. Eat me, Eat me. Eat me.

I mean, even down to the, like, lyrics that they're writing, I mean, it is, like, it is really, really sharp commentary writing this play from this, like, horrendous couple's perspective. Yeah, there are a lot of Native people who like the scene, and there's a lot of Native people who don't scene and there's a lot of native people who don't. And that's I think that's valid. Like I would never argue with a native person about not liking the scene because you know, like I said, it's you still have kids in brown face and culturally appropriating costumes.

The dialogue is very racist to you know, like, you know, like racial stereotypes are stereotypes and they're harmful. So you know, like ironic racism can still be racism. That being said, if I have to choose between two false accounts of the Pocahontas story, I'm going with this one because it was very, very cathartic for me, you know, at that time in my life. And still, kinda, I mean, Donald Trump is using Pocahontas as a slur to this day. And with recent hate crimes committed against Indigenous actors like Jonathan Joss, I would say that. Yeah,

it still holds up in some places, even if it doesn't in others. ite, I mean, this is one of the few pieces of mainstream Hollywood media from this era that even acknowledged European settler colonialism and stolen land and modern native people living in poverty on reservations as a result of colonialism and displacement. And so like, I'll give the movie that. But like you said, there are things that, ways in which the movie doesn't handle this perfectly. For example, I mean, the whole thing still centers whiteness. There are no native characters present on screen to offer their perspectives or experiences.

I feel like there are things that the play gets wrong that the movie could have easily acknowledged if it's something that like Wednesday includes in her monologue or again if the movie included one or more native characters who could set the record straight but again one of the many things that I like something that would have fit pretty seamlessly into Wednesday's monologue is acknowledging how racist their costuming is like that would have been at least a step toward not seeming as if the movie is just

endorsing like any Facet of of that play but that doesn't I mean it's I feel like it's almost kind of like leaned into versus Resisted which isn't true of a lot of elements in that speech, right? Yeah, she could have acknowledged the costuming, the brown face, the fact that Pocahontas was not a, quote unquote, Chippewa maiden, as she says in her dialogue. As you say in your video, very funny and repeatedly, Ali, she's nine.

He is nine. Yes She's a small child Pocahontas was not involved in the first Thanksgiving neither was the Ojibwe nation It's just all these like again the movie is commenting on how These racist white camp directors have created this and are perpetuating this very false version of the narrative. But for the people in the 90s watching this, and even people today watching this, many of them don't know any better. They don't know that the quote unquote facts presented by this play are completely incorrect.

And the movie doesn't say, hey, all these details that you see here in the play are wrong. Again, it would have been easy for Wednesday to be like, and by the way, this, this and this, or it would have been easy for a native character to be written into the movie to say, Here's the actual thing. But the movie, again, just glosses all over that. But it is very cathartic to watch this set burn down and for Sarah Miller, the Pilgrim Girl, to be tied up and burned at the stake, question mark. That's great. I think something that, like in the hands of a responsible writer, something that could have helped the scene would be if there was an actual native person at the camp obviously you walk on thin ice with that one like.

Is it a person attending the camp and if it's a rich like city indian you know are you run the risk of like you you know, stereotypes anyways, but how they treat a rich Indian is still very racist, you know, when you're surrounded by rich white children, or like maybe there's a camp director or something like that, that's like, oh, we're gonna teach you, you know, take you on a trail or take your horseback riding and the kids are like, you know, because the other thing is, you know, you don't really want an excuse. Like, you don't want a native person there specifically so people can be racist to them. Right. But like if someone was there, like, I don't know, the the image in my head, when I imagine how this scene probably could have been a little bit better would be like a native person watching this all unfold and just like nodding and smiling and just watching it like, Oh, okay. I don't remember this version of the Thanksgiving story, but it's a lot better than the ones they've been telling for the past 300 years. The other thing that I know we've touched on it, but again, one of the things that I

don't think I would have seen in other movies is the acknowledgement that native people still exist. Like, I feel like that was something that I was I feel feel like, I mean, I didn't grow up around any Native kids. I grew up in a very diverse city, but we didn't have a large Native population at all. And I feel like even if it wasn't explicitly said to me, that you're sort of taught that Native people don't exist anymore. And so that Wednesday, even in like, it could have been a more detailed line of dialogue, but acknowledged that of course Native people still exist and

they're extremely oppressed to this day, like is really impactful for it, you know, kids in the audience who just have not been taught that whatsoever. I had a long talk with my brother about this because I was like, we didn't, like I just to verify how miseducated we really were. And yeah, I mean, it's just, again, it's like a couple lines of dialogue, but it's, I'm very glad it's there. One of my nieces, and this was back, I want to say like 2000, let's see, I graduated high school in 2008. So it must have been 2005 era, I want to say, but the kids in her classroom. So she was probably like in sixth or seventh grade. The kids in her classroom didn't think native people were real.

They're like, why are we learning about this? This didn't even happen. I was like, what are you talking about? They're like, Indians aren were real. They're like, why are we learning about this? This didn't even happen. And I was like, what are you talking about? They're like, Indians aren't real. And I'm like, excuse me. Hi, nice to meet you. Like what the fuck? What is going on in our public schools? It's like, oh my gosh. And it's only gotten, it's gotten somewhat better and gotten somewhat worse because just recently, actually, I was helping my nephew with his homework. And Sitting Bull was addressed Chief Sitting Bull.

And they talked a little bit about the battle a little bighorn just what it was. And you know, that Sitting Bull was there. Then they followed it up. Like the next page was about Golda Mir, I think is how you say it, who was the fourth prime minister of Israel. Oh, and he asked, how was Golda Mir and Sitting Bull alike? And I was like, excuse me. Oh my God.

Yeah. I was like, first of all, we never even learned about Israel, like at all through my K through 12 education, like none of it, not at all. I don't even think we learned about sitting bull in my K through 12. You know, I think I learned about that, like on my own, just because of who my family is. And it's like, so the one time you're bringing up Israel and sitting bull is to compare those two. And I wrote a very, very angry email to my nephew's principal. So Yeah, it shouldn't fall to you. But I'm glad that people are keeping their eyes peeled

for it because that's that's absurd. Like, it goes without saying that Israel is the pilgrims is the colonizers decimating an entire indigenous population. And I was very much like, listen, if this woman was anything like Sitting Bull, the United States would not be backing Israel. Like just so you know. They are the colonizers. It's their whole fucking thing. I mean, it is, yeah.

Again, and it's like, it's tricky, because I think we've had this conversation on the show before. It's like, one movie is not going to be able to make up for years of miseducation. But it can help. And this is a scene that I think is an example of that. Yeah, I have, for once, I have a whole section, I need to, I think, process this whole Camp Squanto thing

because I'm still thinking so much about that. Like, I double checked current stuff hanging at the camp just to see, I see him like has the messaging changed at all? It hasn't. And you know, it instead of being presented as Oh, the translator for for the pilgrims in Plymouth, where the truth, of course, is far more complicated and horrific is that he was overseas and returned to North America and his entire village was gone and had been replaced with Plymouth Plantation. And that is certainly not acknowledged

within the walls of Camp Squanto because that doesn't feel good to hear. And I feel like that is a lot of what is satirized in this Christine Baranski and other guy couple here is like they are in a way that like I think is like written pretty well of like they are so determined to appropriate the hell and misrepresent the hell out of any aspect of native culture that they can

except the parts that don't feel good to hear. And that is, there's that great line that I think they kind of split about privilege. What is it? Privileged young adults. And we're all here to learn to grow and to just have plain fun because that's what being privileged is all about. And like doing that in the context of misrepresenting and stealing native culture for their own purposes Unfortunately completely tracks and I do appreciate that the movie for its faults does seem to know that I also wondered like did they know that Pocahontas was in production when this was made because they have they have it out for Disney in this one. It's very satisfying

No, maybe. Because I remember, I guess around that time, like, because Pocahontas and the Lion King were both being animated at the same time and Disney wanted that Oscar gold and thought that, oh, we'll get it with Pocahontas this time and make it edgy and adult, you know. Make her sexy. Oh, gross. No, gross. She was nine.

She was nine? She was nine. I did like the other aspect of the camp being that if you disagree with them, they will try to basically clockwork orange you by making you watch The Little Mermaid a trillion times and that Wednesday is stronger. Yeah, like you said, Allie, you can imagine she's just sitting there as Ariel is singing

part of this world or whatever, just plotting, like, yes, I will pretend to agree to be in the play so that I can, you know, derail the play and give this monologue. I read a couple pieces by native writers, one by Sasha LaPoint in HuffPost in 2020, entitled as an Indigenous woman, I always hate Thanksgiving, this year I'm terrified of it, in reference to people gathering a few months after COVID broke out. And then the other piece I read is by author Alyssa Washuta in 2017,

in a publication called Electric Lit, entitled Wednesday Adams is Just Another Settler. In both pieces, the writers discuss their relationship to Thanksgiving and their relationship to this scene in Adam's Family Values, how they celebrated and or connected to the scene in their youth, but both say that like, it's not enough though. Of course.

White people like Wednesday Adams are still sellers on stolen land. Liberation isn't going to happen via sharing this clip from the movie on social media on Thanksgiving. Solidarity and allyship from white people has to be a lot more meaningful and impactful. And both pieces are definitely worth reading. We'll provide the links to those. But that makes me happy to hear though, I know that, you know, both of those

were released, you know, a couple years ago. Yeah. But especially how relevant it is, like, again, going back to Jonathan Joss, it's, you know, his husband has been very vocal saying, you know, like, please keep putting pressure on the fact that this was a hate crime against a gay indigenous man, you know, put pressure on the police. And surprisingly, every new piece of information about Jonathan Joss is worse than the last, and it's been very traumatizing, like just this past week, you know, alone. But I really appreciate how much this man was loved by so many people because it sounds like the San Antonio Police Department was severely underestimated how much people

would have cared about this. Like oh, it's another gay guy. Oh, it's another dead Indian. And everyone's like, oh no, actually. Absolutely not. We're not just going to gloss over this murder that happened. And again, that's another example of using your solidarity, not just sharing, you know, a very cathartic, awesome clip from your favorite

movie, but being like, this is their phone number. This is who you can call. This is, you know, post on social media, send money to the GoFundMe. I heard that the husband doesn't want any more GoFundMe donations, but you know, using your platform, which I hope that the Parks and Rec and King of the Hill people will step up and put a little bit more pressure on it with their platforms, but we'll see, because I saw how they treated them at that panel. So hopefully Parks and Rec does better. I've been so disappointed to see how, I mean, not that we expect anything from Chris Pratt, but Chris Pratt, I think, is the only person

who has acknowledged it in a public way, in a half-assed useless way, and all of the acknowledgments that he isn't here don't acknowledge the fact that he was murdered. It's just very, like, reading, I was reading through just public statements made. For the It's just very, like, I was reading through just public statements made. For the most part, it's like, you would think

he died in his sleep, you know? Like, you just, it's disgusting. And especially, I'm like, Amy Poehler couldn't have a huger platform. Why, you know, I hope she steps up. I hope they all do. So if you love this scene and Adam's Family Values, do something awesome this year for Pride and step up for Jonathan Jazz. So anyways.

I mean, honestly, I don't have that much else to talk about with this movie, especially stuff that we didn't also cover on our first episode about the first movie. Horny Parents Rock. You know, we talked, you can go back to our first episode about the first movie. Horny Parents Rock, you know, we talked, you could go back to our first episode to talk about the ways that the Addams family subverts all of these Hollywood tropes in this really delightful way. I did wanna talk a little bit about Debbie because this is our first rodeo with Debbie

and unfortunately our last, I would love to see where Debbie, I think she's a pretty cool like satirical character as well where she is this like extremely entitled you know waspy murderer it's an interesting idea for a character and she's just she's killing guys she's just she's just walking around killing killing rich guys and she's manipulating them. She's doming them. She's making them get makeovers, stealing from them, murdering them. It's honestly iconic.

I like that. She's very feminine and very pretty and whereas, you know, like white and pestles, but is also very dark and and very unhinged and very angry. It's a great character. It's like, girl, you and Morticia should have just hooked up and tortured Gomez lovingly because he would have loved it. Jessi Yes. Thing could be there, you know, whatever. Jessi I like that they don't try to, I don't know. Well, they do justify her actions, quote unquote,

or they give her villain origin story, but it's so silly. It's the Malibu Barbie thing. Yeah, I think a lot of times we get, I mean, I think I complain about this all the time, and especially in more recent Disney movies, where the villainous behavior is contextualized through something that almost feels like it's excusing the behavior itself.

They're like, well, he had a tough childhood. So that's why he killed all those people, you know, like. And that's why they deserve a redemption. Right, right. And Debbie Chalinski couldn't get less of a redemption. I guess she tried. She dies like several times. And that her villain origin story is ridiculous.

It's like she's just, I think, whatever, this representation of someone who is just absolutely a selfish consumer to her bones, literally her bones, because she's cremated. bones. Literally her bones because she's cremated. I also love that Debbie's evilness isn't tied to, oh, I hate this other woman for being prettier than me or something, you know, like she doesn't really like she and Morticia are on opposite ends of the spectrum, but I wouldn't say that, you know, they're at odds as far as, you know, oh, she's prettier and oh, she's got more money, you know, which would

have been super boring. Yeah, I love that. Morticia also isn't, you know, like, I'm not like other girls, like in response to that. It's just fucking beneath her. And for her killing all of these dudes, I never got like this faux feminist vibe from it, you know, like especially in the 90s where it's like feminism is man hating and blah, blah, blah, you know, she just wants money, which valid.

Don't get married, just get cash. Yeah, she's doing a series of neutral acts, I think. Yeah, jumping off that point, I think if Debbie was the only woman we met in this movie, I would have some issues with it, because it's like, if you only get to know one woman and she's extremely selfish and horrible and evil, you know, that's something to talk about. But we get such a range of types of women,

especially in the Adams family, like Morticia, yeah, I love that Morticia is like, I respect what you're doing, but you look tacky doing it. Wednesday, I mean, you have, you even have a range of types of horrible waspy white lady, Debbie Jalinski and Christine Baranski's character are different flavors of terrible person. And I think Christine Baranski is far worse. Yes.

And then you've got the Amanda, the little rich girl character, another brand of, of that. Yeah. There's, I guess maybe it's because we were covering Camp Rock too, but I was like the, it's such a, it's because we're covering Camp Rock, too. But I was like, the it's such a it's such a stock character like the bitchy blonde girl at camp. And she probably wouldn't have been that bad if it wasn't an Addams Family movie. But what was interesting to me about Amanda's character was like, this is very clearly a child repeating the things that her parents and her teachers were telling her you know she like if you don't know you don't know and you only know what the adults around you are telling you or not telling you. telling you. And adults who weaponize this all the time, you know, because it's like, oh, well, you can't get mad. And you can't say anything because it's a child, you know, like,

what are you going to do bully a kid for being racist? They don't know any better. And have to fucking talk to them. You have to do better. And they'll run into someone like Wednesday who will, you know will scalp them and burn their village to the ground. We'll talk around and find out. Yeah, she will not forget that any time soon. I do think it's tricky with a character like Wednesday

specifically. It seems like this dynamic is adjusted somewhat in the Netflix series so that Wednesday can have a friend, I'm pretty sure. Not sure, but this iteration of Wednesday, she's not gonna be building a coalition. That's just not what she's gonna do. So I think the result of that is

you probably could have squeezed a little more. And it's not that I wanted the Amanda character on screen more, but I feel like you could have gotten a little more nuance, like you were just describing, Ali, of like, we see that her parents are racist, but there's not an explicit connection of she is parroting what her parents are saying. Because she does say, she's not just racist,

she's also very classist. When they talk about, you know, Uncle Fester is marrying the help. And I don't know. This movie will choose a one-liner over almost anything. So it's not like we're gonna get a deep insight into this very toxic dynamic in Adam's family values. And not being sad, I do love that exchange

between her and Wednesday where Amanda's like, I'll be the victim. And Wednesday is like, all your life. It's so good. I also love, okay, as soon as Fester comes back, you know, and Gomez is on his deathbed, you know, his heart is broken because he lost his brother. And as soon as Fester comes back, it's just immediate love and support. Like we know, you know, it's not Wednesday has a moment where she's like, you know, you sent us to camp and they made us sing. that's their unit, that's their family, and it's just such a nice example of how to care for your family when they come back from a very abusive, toxic relationship, which, you know, of all families do it is the Addams family. I love the part right after Fester returns and Gomez is kind of in disbelief about it and he was just like you are mr. Debbie and I'm like mr. Debbie hilarious they kind of

they they match each other's freak in a kind of interesting way I wasn't not rooting for them back to Wednesday really quick though, I would have, I mean, to me it feels like they kind of wedge in an unnecessary hetero love story there. Yeah, they felt very studio notes. And look, Joel as a character I enjoy very much. And you know, a camp crush that's familiar people can. But it's beneath Wednesday Adams. Yeah. Yeah. I do like that he comes over at the very end of the movie and is now like dressing like an

Adams and he basically gives up his identity for a girl and I think more men should do that. So I said and I love how how it ends where she's like, I would scare him to death, you know. I assume he does. Yeah, does she kill him? And I feel like Wednesday's just like, Debbie, that's how it's done. You were sloppy because they're like right over her grave as they do it. She's like, Good. I also liked with with Joel. It's again, it's it's a's like. So good. I also liked with Joel, it's again,

it's a very like not a harped upon point, but Joel is from a Jewish family and his family is very racist toward natives. And he clearly like, I think that Joel, we get a little closer to like what you would hope for in a character like Amanda, where his parents are just as racist as hers are but he is resisting it and you know actually trying to learn. Because he reads. Because he reads. He's read up. He

reads books. Right, right. Which I mean even you know hopefully he's just choosing authors and sources carefully, Joel. But yeah, I do like that you have an example of this kid who is unquestionably from privilege, but is not just wholesale buying into the bullshit that his parents believe. I think that's a good character for kids to see. And I like that his explicit Jewishness is at the wedding. So it's not, you know, a joke. It's not, you know, like, oh, the Jewish kid, you know what I mean? Like, it's not offensive. It's like, oh, he just happens to be Jewish. And when he goes to the wedding, he's wearing, I think it's called a yarmulke. Right, because a lot of characters will be coded Jewish in movies, but not explicitly defined that way.

But I think it's safe to say that his yarmulke, it explicitly identifies him as being a Jewish kid. Yeah, which makes sense with Barry Sonnenfeld. I think that's been a very consistent part of like, he wants to have good representation of young Jewish characters. Right. Shout out to a couple of my favorite lines slash jokes. Morticia saying, I'm just like any modern woman trying to have it all. A loving husband, a family. It's just,

I wish I had more time to seek out the dark forces and join their hellish crusade. seek out the dark forces and join their hellish crusade. That's my one thing with this movie that there's so much amazing, there's so many great storylines. I just, I'm like, not enough Morticia for me. I need, that's like the one thing that, or one of the only things that the first movie has the edge over the second movie in

is Gomez and Morticia aren't around for the majority of the action. And which I don't know if that was like an availability thing or whatever it may be, but I just always want to see more. Raul Julia's health was failing during the shooting of this movie. Oh, wait, this is his last film, right? The last one that he shot.

And then something else came out after he had passed. I want to play Street Fighter. Yes. Of course. Very 90s, yes. Okay, that does make sense. It could have been that and maybe they needed to make changes to the script to accommodate his health. We're not totally sure, but...

He was missed. I also didn't realize that because the grandmother character is under so much makeup that it's Carol King in this one. I Didn't know that was her in there Always happy to see Carol Kane indeed one of my other favorite jokes is Gomez saying to fester after fester is saying how, oh, he would like to one day get married and have children. Gomez says, I hope you someday know the indescribable joy of having children and paying someone else to raise them. Hilarious.

Do you know, like this movie was so ahead of its time anyways, but the fact that pubert, you know, when he is possessed and is blonde and looks like baby me, the grandma's like, he could become a lawyer and he's like, not in this house. He could be the president. I was like, you know what, that is legitimately terrifying now. terrifying now because there are lawyers who voted for Trump and Trump became president and I would definitely be concerned as well for my child. Oh yes. I do. I love that. Yeah, their whole thing, I feel like it hasn't really been done effectively since, but just the idea of them being the least American family in terms of ascribing to these white supremacist American values and yet really thriving at all times. It's very cool. Yeah. I mean, when you think about it, it's like Gomez and Morticia, not only do they just love each other fiercely, they are very romantic, very sexual, very, you know, like, on each

other's level. But they also respect each other. They co parent together. It's not like, you know, I'm cleaning up after my useless husband while he, you know, weaponizes his incompetence. You know, it's, it's very interesting. It's very wholesome. I also love how they're just so secure in their sexuality. Yeah, so much like, you know, they're the hottest people in the room, and the hottest people to each other. It's awesome. It's, it's great goals. Yeah, I was just gonna say hashtag relationship goals. And yeah, I think we talk about that in quite a bit of depth in our first episode. So if listeners wanna go back and check that out, we wax poetic about it.

The last thing I wanted to say was Wednesday talking about Gary's play right after she's initially been cast in it. And she's like, I don't want to be in this. And she says, your work is puerile and under dramatized. You lack any sense of structure, character, or the Aristotelian unities. And it's like us describing most movies we cover on the podcast. When sadoms come on the show. Christina Ricci, please. Yeah, I think that that's all I had.

That was a lot. I mean, this, this movie gives a lot to chew on or however you say that correctly. A lot of gristle to chew on. Another weird word. Someone did say that Fester and Debbie is like Trump and Melania, but I disagree completely because Fester adores Debbie and Trump doesn't adore anybody except himself and his money. That's true. Yeah.

It's like, guys, why do you got to drag Fester? Yeah, no. He doesn't deserve that. Poor Fester is, he's had it hard enough. It feels almost subversive to me that he's this like, lovesick, like longing for companionship and he wants to be married so much and he's like, he submits to the first woman

that shows any interest in him. He's, you know, he's like a very just lovesick man. I mean, it feels- I feels like to see more of that. It feels like they're like he or Debbie keeps waiting for him to feel emasculated. Right. And he just doesn't. He just doesn't. It's not a part of his his makeup.

And I'm like, great. I don't know. He was looking for a woman to throw a toaster in his pants up and she found him. Yeah. R.I.P. Debbie. Oh, daddy. My mom took personal offense that her name was Debbie just because of how

Fester would be like, Oh, Debbie. She's like, stop it. Wait, is that your mom's name? My mom's name was Debbie. That's so funny. I take personal offense. Her name is Debbie. Just because. How dare.

Oh, poor mama. Does anyone have anything else they'd like to talk about? I don't know. I like how this movie was as good as it was for the runtime that it had. It doesn't feel like it dragged on for too long, except for, you know, Fester's O face that dragged on a bit too long. But I just watched it this morning with my family and we laughed our asses off. So it's like a cool 94 minutes or something like that.

I love it. We should go back to those. I know. That's what I'm always saying. The movie does pass the Bechtel test where Wednesday and Amanda insult each other. Wednesday and Debbie. All of the Debbie confrontation, the Morticia and Debbie. There's at least one exchange in there that yeah. Morticia and Debbie, there's at least one exchange in there that yeah. Morticia and her mom, I think either mostly talk about the baby who's a boy or Gomez,

but maybe there's a couple quick exchanges. Either way, the movie passes. Oh, she curses Debbie. Oh yeah, that passes. That passes. When a woman curses another woman. Cursing that passes. That passes. When a woman curses another woman. Cursing Debbie passes. So yeah, lots of passes, lots of combinations.

Our nipple scale though, where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I'll give it, I think like a three, maybe even as much as a three and a half, and maybe that's too generous. But considering this is a mainstream studio movie in the early 90s that has a full monologue

where a character acknowledges land theft and displacement and poverty and class disparity between white colonizers and native like their village burning to the ground. And, you know, the main pilgrim lady being tied up at the stake about to be burned, all that. Like, it's very cathartic, as we've discussed. It's not handled perfectly. There are, you know, things that could have been done a little bit differently but again for the early 90s it feels pretty

groundbreaking for a movie to have done that so and I just you know I love this family I love the characters who are girls and women in this family they get most of the best jokes and laugh lines I love it when women are allowed to be funny and allowed to have jokes because so few movies and so few comedy movies let women say the funny things, but most of the best jokes are either Morticia or Wednesday. Debbie is pretty funny too. And Debbie's funny too.

Give me a 20. Yeah is pretty funny too. And Debbie's funny too. Give me a 20. Yeah, it's great. Every performance. No one does a bad job. No one does a bad job with this movie. So yeah, I'm going to go three and a half and I'll give one to Wednesday, one to Morticia, one to Debbie.

She did nothing wrong. RIP. Maybe. RIP, Debbie. And I'll give my half nipple to the kitten. Maybe got buried alive at the beginning. RIP. I know, I think it escaped. That's my headcanon.

I think I'll make sure at 3.5, with the understanding that like we've talked about a bit and as you talk about in your video, Ali, that my enjoyment of the movie does, I would never argue against a native viewer who was like, no, fuck it. It's still doing a lot of the same reductive tropes that we see in movies over and over. But I agree with you, Caitlin, that this movie is doing, particularly for its time, something that not only were other particularly for its time, something that not only were other family directed media not attempting, but in short order would be doing the exact opposite with Pocahontas.

And so the fact that this came out a year and a half before Pocahontas, I think is actually is really, really worth remembering how these movies are in conversation with one another, even though there are shortcomings that this movie has and that it is still ultimately centered on whiteness. Yeah, I mean, we've talked about most of it, but I think that this movie and this like series in general, it just is like an endless amount of opportunities to push back on popular white supremacist American narratives. And I think this movie is the best example of them really swinging for the fences with it. So I'm gonna go three and a half nipples and I'm giving them all to the very Sonnenfeld episode.

Wow. Speaking of RIP. RIP. I am giving it four! All the fours, because I loved it. I really loved it just because of how cathartic it was, you know, and how it still like holds up now and especially because like, it could be made today, but then it would be cancelled for being woke or something equally ridiculous. It'd be like, God, that was so forced. Wednesday gave that speech, you know, today. Right. But still, they would be wrong today. Anyways. So I would give my nipples to Morticia and to Debbie. And then who else? Raul Julia, Gomez Adams, he can have him.

Who else? Thing, why not? But he has to wash his hand first after he visits Buster. So, God, no! Oh, that's really, this movie is just doing so much. Like so much. Why all the incest implications with the mom? Right, is thing related to them?

I hope not. I hope not. I guess I was talking about the mom thing. Why the mom thing? But yeah. Why is that there? I know. Why is that there?

I don't know. Also shout out, okay, I couldn't tell if the movie, I think the movie was poking fun at him a little bit, but I liked that Fester was not ashamed or embarrassed or felt any which way about saying that he hadn't had sex before. Yeah. I liked that.

I thought that was a cool moment, and especially because the contrast, the joke of the scene is that she is lying about being a virgin because that is something that is valued, especially in white womanhood, is purity, blah, blah, blah. But it's gross, it's like emasculating if men, you know what I'm talking about,

but he was like, oh, I'm a virgin too, awesome. I was like, I love you, I love you. I feel like the movie doesn't really cast judgment on him for that. Yeah. But I don't know. I was like, probably the 1993. I'm sure that that is supposed to be a laugh line, but it just really endeared me to him. And it just is another way that the Addams family kind of consistently

eschews these gender norms. Well, there you have it. That's our Addams Family Values episode. Allie, thank you so much for joining us. Where can people check out your work? Tell us what you'd like to plug. Okay. So I, you can visit me on YouTube.

That's where you'll get like my quality stuff. If you want to see my less quality stuff, but still entertaining, I guess, I'm on TikTok. I still run the Ali Nadi test on Tumblr, but it's the Aila Dash, the-Aila-test on Tumblr. I also run another blog that's not as fun, but I still try to make it pretty, you know, like relevant or important. It's called the, um, your fav is anti-native. And that one is about, it's kind of in the vein of your fav is problematic, except it focuses specifically on public figures, so actors or politicians or world leaders or whoever

with like a big public influential presence, how they have been anti indigenous with their racism either in the past or currently. So it doesn't like just tackle any like Brando on the internet. It's specifically like this is who this person is, this is how you know who they are. And this is what they've said, you know, and it's less about, you know, call out culture and more about how normalized anti indigenous racism is like across the scale. You know, like if our politicians and our movie stars and stuff can get away with saying it, I mean, of course the people, the randos in the comments

are going to feel comfortable saying it. You know, so there's a lot of people on there, but more creatively, I mean, like my YouTube is the place to go for some more fun. And I have a project that's coming up soon that should be done sometime this week. It was supposed to be due on Memorial Day, but me and deadlines since it's not my job. Take your time. Yeah. And thank you so much for inviting me. I always love coming on and this is number four now, right?

Yeah, five-timer jacket on the way. The jacket we make up. I'm so happy you guys aren't sick of me. We love you, we love you. Oh my gosh. Thank you for coming back. Thank you, thank you. Miigwech.

I did wanna say though, I wanted to really thank both of you because of the search the landfill hashtag that we talked about in the Avatar episode, because they found them. I try to keep you guys in the updated on that every time new information came up, but they found them. And so, um, I, you know, obviously a lot of people did a lot of work, but I think that the talking about it on the Bechdel cast probably put it on people's radar that otherwise wouldn't have. So I think every little bit helps. And I just wanted to thank you guys for doing that. So literally the least we could do. Thank you. Thank you so

much for consistently bringing important stories here. Let's do the least we could do. Thank you. Thank you so much for consistently bringing important stories here. Let's do the same for Jonathan Joss and give them some justice justice for Jonathan. I still yeah I literally just checked to be like has anyone else from Parks and Rec said anything? Not at the time of this recording. Yeah. So fix that. Fucking fix it. Yeah. And with that, let's go yell, let's go shake our fist at Debbie's grave. Bye. Bye. The Bechtel cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus,

produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrosensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus. And a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechtelcast. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the podcast, Betrayal. Police Lieutenant Joel Kern used his badge to fool everyone. Most of all, his wife, Caroline. He texted, I've ruined our lives.

You're going to want to divorce me. How far would he go to cover up what he'd done? The fact that you lied is absolutely horrific. And quite frankly, I question how many other women are out there that may bring forward allegations in the future. Listen to Betrayal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Camp Shane, one of America's longest runningrunning weight loss camps for kids, promised extraordinary results.

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Well, Sam, luckily, it's your Not the Father Week on the OK Storytime podcast, now I'm taking the inheritance. Wait a minute, John, who's not the father? Well, Sam, luckily it's your Not the Father Week on the OK Storytime podcast, so we'll find out soon. This author writes, My father-in-law is trying to steal the family fortune worth millions from my son, even though it was promised to us. He's trying to give it to his irresponsible son, but I have DNA proof that could get the money back.

Hold up, they could lose their family and millions of dollars? Yep. Find out how it ends by listening to the OK Storytime podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever thought about going voiceover? I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. I'm also the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. You might hear that term and think it's about celibacy, but to me, voiceover is about understanding yourself

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