The Bechdel Cast - All About My Mother with Tamara Yajia

Episode Date: September 25, 2025

This week, Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Tamara Yajia talk all about All About My Mother (1999)! Follow Tamara on Instagram at @tamarayajia and buy her book, Cry For Me, Argentina: My Life As A Failed Child Star, at https://geni.us/cryformeargentina See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. I'm Jorge Ramos. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians, artists, and activists

to bring you death and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. The moment is a space for the conversations we've been having us, father and daughter, for years. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast.

Today, I'm joined by Emma Watson. Emma Watson has apparently quit acting. Emma Watson has announced she's retiring from acting. Has anyone else noticed that we haven't seen Emma Watson in anything in several years? Emma Watson is opening up the truth behind her five-year break from acting. Watson said she wasn't very happy. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The murder of an 18-year-old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years,

until a local housewife, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people. in small towns. Listen to Graves County on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And to binge the entire season, ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

In the 1980s, modeling wasn't just a dream. It was a battlefield. It's a freaking war zone. These people are animals. The Model Wars podcast appeals. the glossy cover and reveals a high-stakes game where survival meant more than beauty. Hosted by me, Vanessa Grigoriatus, this is the untold story of an industry built on ruthless ambition. Listen to Model Wars on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. On the pectocast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Welcome to The Bechdelcast. It's me, Caitlin. And it's me, Jamie.

Welcome to our podcast, where for many years now, we have covered your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist perspective using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. But, Caitlin, what is that? Well, it is a mediometric created by our best friend, Alison Bechdel, with her friend, Liz Wallace.

Recent convert to knowing the show exists, Allison Bechtel. Yes, yes, yes. There are many versions of the test. The one that we use is this. Do two characters of a marginalized gender, have names, do they speak to each other, and is there a conversation about something other than a man?

And also, we like it if it's like a narratively substantial conversation, not a problem with today's movie. No, truly. So we won't waste any more. time because we've got a rich text today. We are covering the 1999 movie all about my mother with an incredible guest. So let's get her in here. Let's do it. She's a TV writer and author of the new book, Cry for Me, Argentina. My Life is a Failed Child Star. And also you know her from our episode on Home Alone. It's Tamara Yehia. Hello. Welcome. Welcome back. Hi. Wow. Two such

similar movies. Guys, I'm desperate to talk about this movie. I'm so excited to hear your thoughts on it because this is my first time seeing it, which, what a treat. Ooh. I'm so excited to talk about it. But first, tell us about your book. Congratulations, first of all. Thank you so much.

I'm really proud of it. And it's a memoir. It's based on my upbringing. I'm from Argentina. And I have very obscene parents and a very kind of depraved, not depraved, but sexually open family who couldn't stay in one place. So we moved from Argentina to the United States, back to Argentina, and then back to the United States, all in the span of my childhood. And in between those moves, I became a, like a child star that was starting to blossom. And once I got my big break, I was pulled away from Argentina back to the U.S.

So the book revolves around that and, you know, my crazy parents. And yeah, I'm so bad at talking about my book. Jamie, did you have that problem with yours where you're like, oh, well. Yeah. I'm just like, well, you know, hot dog thoughts. What do you think? And then would panic at a whiff of a follow-up. I think you did.

I think you did great. And it is such a great book. I was just telling Tam off Mike that I read half of it in the hardcover form. And then I read the other half via audiobook. And so I can vouch for both experiences. Do one, do both. Go nuts. Hell yeah.

It's funny because I wrote the book thinking like my life was so funny and like every and like it was a comedy book. And halfway through, I was like, oh, there were. issues and I have a lot of unresolved trauma and and so now I'm like I have to pivot from just like yeah the book is it is funny but there's some real serious issues talked about there too so but at least you have an incredible therapist oh my gosh and speaking of unresolved trauma all about my Mother. True.

God. Yeah. No shortage of that. What is your history with this movie? Yesterday was my sixth or seventh time watching it. Okay. It's my favorite movie of all times. Oh, amazing.

Yes. Wow. Thanks for talking to us about it. What a get. It was on the list of like the, you know, maybe we can do one of these. And I was like, yes. And the first time I watched it, I was on shrooms. Whoa.

And it really just blew my mind in like a deeper, like, way than I, you know, I would have just normally watching it. And then yesterday, it was cool because I, for one, I took notes while watching it. And I did a little bit of research on it, something that I had never done. And God will get to it. But at this time of my life, when I'm literally today starting IVF, that's another thing, Jamie. Yeah. Wow. Today.

Today. Today are my first injections and what it means to be a mother and a caretaker. And anyways, you can tell I have a lot to say. But another thing about it real quick is that I wanted to, I was going to suggest we do Evita because I wanted to do something like Argentine because my book. And as I watched it yesterday, I was like, I never realized that the two main characters, Lola and Manuela, they're Argentine. Yeah. I assumed that was like a part of that. That's, yeah. I mean, I knew she was, but I didn't realize that Lola was as well. And that I realized, too, the reason that they immigrated to Spain was because they were escaping the dictatorship in Argentina. Okay. And that was like a brand new thing that I learned yesterday while watching it. So anyways, we can get into it. I just said a lot. No, thank you for trusting us with your favorite movie. Yes. Caitlin, what is your history with this movie? I watched this movie during the great Caitlin movie binge of 2004-2005, which is when I saw many movies for the first time. And I didn't really remember anything about it because I never re-watched it.

Mellow dramas are not really my genre. So I didn't feel super compelled to revisit it. But so much time had passed between my first viewing that I kind of just forgot everything about it. So watching it this time was sort of like watching it for the first time. And so it was really interesting to re-experience. There's a lot to talk about, especially in the context of our show. Because are there women in the movie? And are they living their lives and talking to each other?

They sure are. Boy, oh, boy, don't worry about it. So, yeah, I'm excited to discuss. And then, Jamie, you said you had not seen this movie before? I had not seen this movie before. It's been on my list for a long time. I've seen movies from Petra Almodovar before. I hope I'm saying that correctly because I have been worried about it all morning.

And I also know, I mean, I think it's fascinating that his, like, body of work is so built around motherhood in general. and it's wild right as if i had more time to prep for this episode i was like it would be cool if i had time to watch a elmodovar movie about mothers from every decade because there is one but the work of his that i had seen before i saw the room next door which came out last year which is a very different movie very quiet and then i've seen i always want to say portrait of a lady on fire And that's just simply incorrect. It's women on the verge of a nervous breakdown. But do you see where I was located?

A lot of prepositions, yeah. Yeah. I was telling Caitlin last night, the reason I saw women on the verge of a nervous breakdown, I saw it like 10 years ago because there used to be this comedy show that I would do in Boston. We had this awesome, like very sweet comic, West Hazard. It was at a record slash movie store. And you would get paid in a DVD, basically, that like the, host was like, you should see this movie. And he gave me a very unstable, 21-year-old, a DVD

of women on the verge of a nervous breakdown. He's like, I think this makes sense for you. And it's a great movie and I loved it. But this, yeah, this was my first time. It's all about my mother. And I really enjoyed it. I'm so excited to talk about it. Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap. I'm Jorge Ramo. And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time, as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians. I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country.

Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized? I might personally lose hope. This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't lose faith. And that's what I believe. To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public.

Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Paola Ramos as part of the MyCultura podcast network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Chetty, and I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast. Today, I'm joined by Emma Watson. Emma Watson. Emma Watson has apparently quit acting. Emma Watson has announced she's retiring from acting.

Has anyone else noticed that we haven't seen Emma Watson in anything in several years? Emma Watson is opening up the truth behind her five-year break from acting. Watson said she wasn't very happy. Was acting always something you were going to do? I was using acting as a little. way of escaping to feel free. My parents, it wasn't just the divorce. It was just like the continuing situation of living between two different houses and two different lives and two different sets of values, the career and the life that looks like the dream. But are you

really happy? Fame has given me this extraordinary power. It's also given me a lot of responsibility. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen-Yang. And you're never going to guess who's our guest on Lost Cultureistas. It is Bradley Jackson, L. Woods, Tracy Flick, herself. Reese Witherspoon.

It must go in a girls' trip. I have to have a tequila. We must. Oh! The Q rating. When they run diagnostic on you guys. I'd be scared. I don't run the Q rating.

No, on the Q rating is I get it. My resiliency score is down to adequate Because we were on a red eye My resiliency score My grit I got to get my grit score up Now don't think that you're going to come out Las Culturaista's the podcast

And we're not going to at least bring up Big Little Lai Season 3 Whoever said orange is the new pink Seriously disturbs Listen to Las Culturistas On the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast All I know is what I've been told, and that's a half-truth is a whole lie.

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved, until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling.

I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her, or rape or burn or any of that other stuff, They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

America, y'all better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Okay, here is the story. We are in Madrid, Spain. We meet Manuela, played by Cecilia Roth, who works in a hospital as a nurse and a coordinator who facilitates transplants of organs from organ donors to recipients. She goes home where she lives with her 17-year-old son, Esteban.

They watch All About Eve together. I wish I had that experience with my mom. I was like, I want to intensely watch All About Eve with my mom. Right. She tells her son about how when she was younger, she acted in an amateur theater troupe and performed a streetcar named Desire, which is a show that Manuel takes Esteban to for his birthday.

And as they're waiting for one of the actors to come out for Esteban to get her autograph, he asks Manuela about his father because all Manuela has told him is that his father died before he was born. Then the actor comes out, Uma, played by Marisa Paredes, and Esteban runs after her taxi and is hit by a car and killed. Menauela is of course devastated. She gives her consent for Esteban to be an organ donor. So she's like now on the other side of her job, basically. And his heart is transplanted into another patient's body. She looks at the files to find out where his heart is being taken to. And she kind of like follows the heart on its journey. I really loved that. I loved it. Weirdly reminded me of a Simpsons episode. Stay with me.

where like where you start the movie thinking it's going to go one way and then they just are like actually the movie is about this and I really like that because it's like also the whole idea of her following her son's heart is like a thriller I would watch too right totally she and she's like in black glasses and like a turtleneg you're like oh incognito mode and then it's just the guy walks by and says oh I got the heart of a young 17 year old and then you never see him again right and you're like and you're like and And good for you and happy for you. Yeah, he walks by a friend of hers is like, hey, Manuel, Manuela, I know that grief can look a lot of different ways, but maybe you shouldn't have done that. You got to leave that guy alone. And she's like, fair. I was like, that really? Yeah. And then the movie kind of starts.

Yeah. And is about something else. I just love that. Yeah. Manuela travels to Barcelona to find Esteban's other parent, who she had previously left when she was pregnant with Esteban 17 years ago. She encounters her old friend Agrado, played by Antonio San Juan. Best character in Dumboofi. Best performance ever.

Yes. Love this character. She is a trans woman and a sex worker who is being assaulted. when Manuela finds her. So Manuel comes to her rescue, administers some first aid, and asks Agrado where their mutual friend, Lola, is. We will eventually gather that Lola is Estabon's other parent, who Agrado had kind of taken in and was caring for, but Lola recently robbed Agrado and skipped town. And because Agrado is injured from the assault, she can't do her usual work.

So she and Manuela go to see a nun, Rosa, played by Penelope Cruz, for help. Baby Penelope Cruz, too. She's so young. She's so cute. Like, how beautiful can a person be? She is constantly challenging this. Yeah. Really.

Rosa takes Manuela to her mother's house, hoping that her mother will hire Manuel as a cook. But her mom refuses because she's very judgy and thinks Manuela is a sex worker and doesn't want to be around her. Then Rosa starts feeling nauseous. So Manuela brings her to the apartment she's renting until Rosa's illness passes. We'll put a pin in that. then Manuel goes to see streetcar named Desire again with the same cast as the show she saw with her son in Madrid. She's stronger than me.

Yeah. I would never step foot in a theater again. I would forget that art existed. She is such, I mean, she's a strong character for all sorts of reasons, but this is one of them, very specific one. For sure. And she approaches Uma, the actor who Esteban wanted, an autograph from.

Uma is upset because she has recently started dating her co-star Nina, played by Candela Pena, who had, like, just run out of the theater. So, umma has Manuel, Manuela accompany her to find Nina. She says the famous line from streetcar name Desire, where she's like, I've always depended on the kindness of strangers because Manuel is this stranger who just, like,

comes into her dressing room. She's like, oh, you're here. Can you help me? So they go looking for Nina, who is dealing with addiction issues. They find her, and Nina drives off in a hurry with Uma, accidentally taking Manuela's purse with them. The next day, Rosa pays Manuel a visit to ask if she can rent a room from her. Turns out that Rosa is pregnant and needs a place to kind of hide out. During her pregnancy.

You can say it. She's pregnant. She's pregnant. She is pregnant. She is with Greg. Yeah. She's with Greg. She is with Greg.

And she needs to hide out during this pregnancy on account of her being a nun and all. There's a lot going on. Yeah. She's every new detail you learn about her is wilder than the last. Yeah. For sure. Including that Rosa has gotten pregnant from Lola.

the person who had also gotten Manuela pregnant, you know, 17 or 18 years prior. I think because of this, Manuela is reluctant to let Rosa stay with her, but she eventually changes her mind and Rosa will move in. Because she's the ultimate mother. Yes. She is the one true mother. Well, I mean, there's a lot. There's a bigelian mothers, but she's the mother.

And the protector of all. Yes. But I also feel like it gets around so many tropes of like, you can see her struggle with stuff and be like, should I do this? And then like, you can see her thinking, the performance is so good. This movie's great. Yeah. Yeah.

So then Manuela goes to the theater to get her purse back from Uma, who offers Manuel a job as her personal assistant. And Manuela accepts and starts working like one second later. She then takes Rosa to a doctor's appointment. She has hypertension. So there's a possibility she, could miscarry. And she also asks for an HIV-slash-AIDS test, citing that she works with, you know, high-risk people. So she wants to have a test. A couple weeks past, another show of a streetcar name

Desire is about to start. But Nina, who plays Stella, is drunk and bails at the last minute. So Manuela offers to step in saying that she can do Nina's part. She knows. the lines and she does a great job like almost too good of a job better yeah she's unreal yeah and umma and nina are like wait a minute how do you know this part so well what's going on i appreciate that she's like it's like all about eve you're like yeah exactly she's like you're stealing my life and my stardom and stuff and manuela tells them about how she took her son to see their play in Madrid a couple months ago and that he was killed running after their taxi to get Uma's autograph.

Oh, and she must have felt like such a asshole for that one. Yeah. Yep. And Manuel is crying as she tells the miss and she like quits her job and runs off. Oh. The next day, Uma comes to Manuel's apartment to ask her to come back to work. But Manuel is like, I can't. I have to take care of Rosa, who has just learned that in addition to being pregnant, she is HIV-positive.

Then Agrado comes over as well, and everyone is sort of like, hey, Agrado, why don't you take Manuela's job and work for Uma? So that happens. And they have like just a nice little gals hang. They get drunk. They eat peanuts or something because there's like shenny. bells all over the table, they're laughing. They're having a nice time. It's so sweet. I love it.

Agrado starts working for Uma. There's still a lot of tension with Nina. She's still dealing with addiction. Then one night, the streetcar show has to be canceled because Uma and Nina get into a fight and nearly kill each other. So instead, Agrado goes on stage and does a comedic. monologue about her life. She's just like a one-woman show.

She's like, well, I have you here. Yeah. Can I workshop something? Probably my favorite. The best part of the movie to me is this monologue. It's really great. It's all about the different cosmetic surgeries. She has had in order to be quote unquote authentic.

And the audience is loving it. They're laughing. They're living. They're loving. And back at home, Rose's mom, whose name, I believe, is also Rosa. Rosa Sr. comes by for a visit. She learns about Rosa's pregnancy and, I believe, her HIV diagnosis. And Rosa Sr. does not really know how to deal. She's not the ultimate mother. She's a piece of work. I have lots to say about her when the time comes.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Then Manuela takes Rosa to the hospital for her C-section. On the way, Rosa sees her dog and her father, who doesn't seem to recognize Rosa. It seems like he has dementia of some kind. Oh, that scene is really heartbreaking. I know. With the dog. You're just like... With sub-peak. Yeah. Yeah, very sweet. Then at the hospital, Rosa says she intends to name her baby Esteban and that she has figured out that Manuel's son's other parent is also Lola and Rosa makes Manuela promise that if anything happens to her Manuela will tell her child everything and not hide anything and Manuel is like you can tell your kid yourself nothing's going to happen to you which is a death sentence for any character because

cut to the next scene yeah it is Rosa's funeral she presumably died during the surgery. And Lola, played by Tony Kento, shows up to the funeral to explain why she stole from a grotto to tell Manuela that she is dying and to say goodbye. Lola finds out about her and Manuela's son and wants to see him, but Manuela tearfully explains that... God. I cried at that part. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She just... she tells Lola that Esteban was killed in a car accident and in the span of like two minutes Lola learns that she had a son and also that that son was tragically killed and it's just all

very devastating. Oh, God. It's nothing can prepare you for the last 20 minutes of this movie. It is just, it's a lot in a good way, but it's a lot. It is. Yeah. Then we cut to Rosa's parents' house. Manuela now lives there with baby Esteban, working as their cook and taking care of the baby.

A month later, Manuel meets up with Lola and brings the baby. There's concern that the baby will also turn out to be HIV positive, but Manuel doesn't seem worried. She also shows photos of older Esteban to Lola, as well as Esteban's journal in which he wrote something on the day that he died, that he desperately wanted to meet his other parent. And that's also very heart-wrenching. Then we see Uma and Agrado at the theater as Uma is rehearsing for a play, and they receive a letter. from Manuela, saying that living with Rosas' parents was unbearable. So she left Barcelona with baby Esteban, who she is now raising as her own son. I loved how quickly that's dealt with where she was like, yeah, so that was obviously fuck a fuck-down situation. So we got out of there.

So we got like, fuck out. Good for you. Truly, yeah. And then we cut to two years later. Manuel is returning to Barcelona with toddler Esteban. He, he, has neutralized the virus and so doctors want to study him and then manuela reunites with umma and agrato and we learn a couple things like that lola has passed away that nina left to get married to someone else and had a ugly baby had an ugly very ugly baby fun detail to add in and that's the end of the movie yeah so let's take another quick break, and we'll come back to discuss. I'm Jorge Ramos.

And I'm Paola Ramos. Together we're launching The Moment, a new podcast about what it means to live through a time as uncertain as this one. We sit down with politicians. I would be the first immigrant mayor in generations, but 40% of New Yorkers were born outside of this country. Artists and activists, I mean, do you ever feel demoralized? I might personally lose hope.

This individual might lose the faith, but there's an institution that doesn't lose faith. And that's what I believe in. To bring you depth and analysis from a unique Latino perspective. There's not a single day that Paola and I don't call or text each other, sharing news and thoughts about what's happening in the country. This new podcast will be a way to make that ongoing intergenerational conversation public. Listen to The Moment with Jorge Ramos and Bolton.

Paola Ramos as part of the MyCultura Podcast Network on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast. Today, I'm joined by Emma Watson. Emma Watson. Emma Watson has apparently quit acting. Emma Watson has announced she's retiring from acting. Has anyone else noticed that we haven't seen Emma Watson in anything in several years? Emma Watson is opening up the truth behind her five-year break from acting. Watson said she wasn't very happy. Was acting always something you were going to do? I was using acting as a way of escaping to feel free.

My parents... It wasn't just the divorce, it was just like the continuing situation of living between two different houses and two different lives and two different sets of values, the career and the life that looks like the dream. But are you really happy? Fame has given me this extraordinary power. It's also given me a lot of responsibility.

A lot of responsibility Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty On the IHart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hey everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen-Yang And you're never going to guess who's our guest on Lost Cultureistas.

It is Bradley Jackson, Elle Woods, Tracy Flick herself. Reese Witherspoon. Maurice, it must go in a girl's trip. I have to have a tequila. We must. Oh! The Q rating.

When they run diagnostic. We can run it on you guys. I'd be scared. Run the Q rating. No, on the Q rating on us. My resiliency score is down to adequate because we were on a red eye. My resiliency score. My grit.

I got to get my grit score up. Now, don't think that you're going to come out Los Culture East. That's the podcast. And we're not going to at least bring up Big Little Lies season three. Whoever said orange is the new pink. We seriously disturbs. Listen to Las Culturistas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been told, and that to have truth is a whole lie.

For almost a decade, the murder of an 18-year-old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky, went unsolved. until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy Kilder, we know. A story that law enforcement used to convict six people, and that got the citizen investigator on national TV. Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, producer, And I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her.

Or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y'all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her. From Lava for Good, this is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. I better work the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

Listen to Graves County in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Yeah, where would we like to start here? Tamara, does anything jump out to you? First thing I wanted to say is I realized that Almodovar's mother died either while he was shooting this or like the year it came out. Yeah. And I just, the dedication at the end killed me.

Like starting by the end, there's this beautiful dedication. I can't remember the beginning. It's like for all women who want to be actresses, for all something like that. For actresses who have played actresses. Yes, it's very meta, the movie. And we can talk about that too. But then it says, and for all women who want to be mothers and for my mother. And that's when I was just like, there are levels of mothering and sisterhood in this movie that blow my mind.

because it's not so much about mothers, but it's like caretaking in all its forms. Anyways, that's amorphous, but I just wanted to say that. Yeah. No, I, like, that was one thing that, I mean, especially for its time. Like, I was really pleasantly surprised. And I know that there's stuff to talk about, but that he so thoroughly understands. Also, just like a male otter understanding, like being so open. to not this very prescriptive idea of motherhood.

Yes. And in a world where it's like we're, even in movies that I love, there is usually like the mother character that is sort of, and there she is because she needs to be there for whatever plot contrivance reasons. And it's you have like, he clearly has spent a lot of his life thinking about what motherhood can look like and how,

you know, just approaches to parenthood in general. Yes. What it can look like and allowing, them to be full people outside of that role while that role still means a lot to like I just it just was very I don't know it's so thoughtful but not in a way that felt like yeah they could still be funny and like you know hang out together and get drunk it's like do what I just I just really liked it yeah I think of this movie as partly a comedy because the funny parts are so

funny, too. And one thing I wanted to talk about before anything is, like, his portrayal of men. To me, it says so much about how he sees women, because I made a note of this. Like, the men in the movie are kind of rude as hell. Like, there's the doctor who is awful to Penelope Cruz's character when cold and condescending cold yes the actor in the play who's like begging aggrado for a blow job remember that part like oh yeah yeah yeah basically he finds out that agrato was formerly a sex worker and thinks that gives him license to ask her for a blowjob because he's feeling on edge and she's like i'm retired. Also, this is inappropriate. Like, what? Yeah, like, no. Yeah, she's like, no. And then he's just like, but please. No. Yeah. It's like, those are like the main like men speaking parts. And then,

oh, Penelope Cruz's father who like, there's a reason symbolically that he has dementia. He is an absent person. He doesn't like exist for her. And I don't think that's just like there's a reason for this. And the fact that when Penelope Cruz at the end of the movie sees her father and the dog at the park, she calls for the dog. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like even with Lola, like as a parent was completely absent too. I don't know what this means, but it just says a lot. I totally agree. It's like physically there, but they're not emotionally, present. And again, it's like there's a gradient to what that looks like, where it's like he's not taking the easy way out and, you know, doing sort of a copy paste of like everyone is like misogyny the guy or whatever where it's like, which you do sometimes see come up. But yeah, like her father's absence because of, I mean, we don't get the specifics. Or there's just some men that just are too horny to function and are like trying to basically assault our favorite characters. you know you know and then we have two prominent characters even though we don't meet lola until

the last i think 10 minutes of the movie who are trans women and who are also very different characters as we can get into but yeah i mean just for a movie that came out in 99 is like i i think pretty unheard of at the time yeah that's the thing this movie does a better job humanizing different types of marginalized people than most movies of this time were able to do and even movies that came out after this. But between the characters who are trans women, between the characters who are women who date women, sex workers, people living with HIV and AIDS, people dealing with addiction, like there's so much more humanization of people who are largely punched down to and made jokes of and treated as not human, this movie does the opposite

and lets us get to know these characters and gives them interiority. And I kept thinking to myself that the events of this movie and the different circumstances that characters find themselves in are not unlike what you might see in like a soap opera or a telenovela. Yeah. Yeah. But the movie handles these circumstances, and even though it is melodrama, it is way more like earnest and honest and heartfelt. It never feels overblown or anything like that. It's just so beautifully done. And I like that like throughout Alma Dovar is not shying away from like citing his sources. Like he's like, I'm thinking about all about Eve. I'm thinking about street cardame desire. Like and actually like weaves his own influence.

into the story in a really cool way. Oh, yeah. There's also, I was writing down all of the, like, mentions of other works, and it was those two, and then music for Chameleons by Truman Capote, which is the book she gives her son. And I haven't read that. I actually haven't seen All About Eve or Streetcar Name Desire, so none of the references did I get.

You would love All About Eve, I think. Oh, my God. Because I'm not a big streetcar head, but All About Eve Rips. It's so good. I'm going to watch it tonight. Anyways, yeah. I wanted to talk about Lola because Lola is such a complicated character. And I was, again, because this movie is so particular, I had no idea where it was going to go with regard to Lila's character.

Because for the majority of the movie, Lola is someone we know about in terms of her effect on others. But we don't really know anything about her as a person. my I guess like oh god I hope that it's not because I like my worry was because you know she was HIV positive and I think it's sort of implied that that is ultimately why she passes that you know like there's all of these I feel like we've talked about it like kind of more frequently on the show recently of how HIV is like presented in movies over time and you know there's been well-intentioned attempts to show characters with HIV that end up being kind of condescending on a longer timeline. I was worried that it was going to be like, here is like one of two trans characters we know and all we really know about her is that she has HIV and has children that she doesn't know about and like sort of these broad more stereotypes ideas. And then we meet her.

And I wasn't able to find a ton of writing from trans writers specifically about this movie. I would like to, listeners, please let us know how you feel about this movie. But I did really appreciate, at very least, that, like, by the end of the movie, you know that the intention is to treat her with all of the humanity she deserves to be treated with. It's just like, and you get to see that, you know, like, she's gotten an extremely raw deal in her life. And the movie also doesn't shy away from how people treated trans women at this time. Yeah. In the same way that you could make the argument that the only two trans women who we get to know are also sex workers or former sex workers because that's a trope often affiliated with trans women in media. And to be clear, the issue here is that that specific representation of trans women doing sex work tends to be presented in media with a sense of judgment attached to it.

And without examining any of the context of why that's a job, some trans women do, and without developing those characters in any meaningful way, I feel like we had a similar discussion on the Tangerine episode. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think the movie gives the characters enough, again, just interiority that we're deviating from like the trope territory and actually like giving them characterization the way that again a lot of other movies don't bother to do right and even the way that like HIV is presented in the movie the fact that it's not just a trans character who has HIV like Rosa's experience

is very different from Lola's experience and there's also sort of this gradient of like what that can look like and I really appreciated that Alma Dovar goes out of his way to make it clear to the audience that this is not a death sentence for baby Esteban either and like yeah goes out of his way to dispel probably what in 99 and probably a lot of people now as well would not really know or like think about yeah yeah that's the thing about almodovart too is like there's nuance to his movies and like we were saying you think it's going to be about manuela following the guy that got the heart but it's not it's just this little thing and then you think she's going to stay living with the grandparents but she's like i'm out of

of here. To me, that's like those subtleties or like kind of deviations from the path is good writing that it hasn't been touched by execs who want everything to mean something. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Or for everything to be like a tidy, nice. A reason. Yes. Little happy ending or a like, yes. You can tell that this is not a Hollywood movie. Totally. That this is like a, like a. a Spanish movie because if this script came across the desk of Hollywood executives, they would have just been like, no, it needs to be more whatever, like Hollywood happy ending vibes. Yeah.

And another thing about the trans sex workers, I, have you guys seen that TV show Veneno? It was an HBO show. It's really amazing. It's about a famous trans woman from Spain and like around the same time. And there's an entire episode where she talks about how it was nearly impossible for trans women to get jobs at like hospitals or stores because there was so much discrimination. And sex work was kind of the only ways they could make a living. So I think it's a reality. I don't know in the U.S. how it is, but I know in Argentina it's the same way to, or it was the same way too, especially.

in the 90s. And I think that like what Elmodovar does here that makes it clear that he's not like stereotyping these characters because there is precedent for it is that like we see in particular we see Agrado is exploring other passions of hers. Like she's performing and she's, you know, has a very particular attitude towards sex work where she's not against it, but she's like, I don't do that anymore. I'm doing this now and it's not, he just writes. people as people. She's retired. Yeah. And she has pride in the sex work. She does. Yeah.

Which I think is amazing. Like she knows she's really good at it. All of those subtleties are what make his movies so brilliant. There's that exchange of dialogue where Agrado is saying I was so good at my work that I could give a blowjob in public and the only person who noticed was the recipient of the receiver. And then they're kind of, they're, they're saying this because they think that Uma is in the other room out of earshot because they like don't know how she's going to take information like that. But then Uma stepped right up and she was just like, oh, it's been so long since I've sucked

a cock. And then they all burst out laughing. Yeah. It's so cute. That's great. It's interesting because Uma is more or less of the same generation as Rosa's mother. And Rosa's mother is a character who is like, not tolerant. She is not understanding. She does not want to be around sex workers. She's very

disparaging of them. And so you might assume, oh, no, Uma might be the same way, but she is not, she is very accepting and understanding of everyone around her. Both Uma and Nina, her lover, are the two characters in the movie that confuse me the most in that I don't quite understand what, like, I can't pinpoint, like, this is what they're doing in the movie, or this is what type of person they are. But Rosa's mom, I pinned her immediately as a narcissist. And it just, it showed, like, I have a line that she says written down. When she's talking about Penelope Cruz, her daughter, she says, ever since she was born, she's

felt like an alien to me. And to me, that's like a person who has. a child but isn't a caretaker yeah isn't equipped is too narcissistic sees the child as an extension of herself and thus you know she's ashamed of what her daughter does for a living which is the opposite of manuela who literally everybody she meets gravitates to her for caretaking and it just comes so instinctually to her it's amazing even when those people aren't her biological children. Because most of them aren't.

And she still, she cares for a grotto. She cares for Rosa. She cares for baby Esteban. She cares for Uma. All these different characters. She's providing care for in a way that is also contextualized by the story. I mean, she's just suffered this horrible tragic loss and is, you know, feeling an emptiness that she more or less fills by helping. helping others yeah and she does say to um manuela says at one point i have it written in

spanish it's something like you don't pick your parents you get what you get and it's the fucking truth but then again like did you guys notice how i mean you obviously did how she pretends that her and penelope crews are sisters and it made me think of sisters like older sisters taking care of younger sisters when a mother I have a very narcissistic mother who you know in turn I raised my sister in ways in very protective ways so that's when we get into the whole like motherhood comes in so many forms or care you know well that lends itself to the theme of chosen family yes which we see constantly with so many relationship dynamics and kind of combinations of of characters where you can presume that Agrado and Lola were, you know, as quote-unquote

outcasts of society, chose each other as family. And basically everyone that Manuela interacts with ends up being her chosen family between Agrado and Rosa and Uma to some extent. It's a little different because she works for Uma, but they also develop a friendship. and yeah so yeah it's just like chosen family across the board also umma umo in spanish means smoke and her name is uma rojo which is red smoke i'm so curious about that and why i mean i'm sure we we can find it online i didn't i was too lazy to look but i wrote it down because i thought it was really cool that's fascinating i did yeah i didn't even think to like look into what

the significance of of the names were of the names totally well then speaking of names you've got agrato who says several times in the movie that her name which she chose refers to the fact that she has spent her whole life trying to be agreeable for other people and trying to make other people's lives agreeable and that's a clear component of her character one that is very relatable for women that were expected to just be accommodating and agreeable. Another caretaker in a different way, which brings back to the theme of caretaking. And I notice that in the very, I think it's the very last scene, when Manuela comes back to see Uma at the theater, and Agrado is there as her assistant, when Manuela walks in,

she grabs Uma's earring and she's like, oh, it's not clasped. And Uma says something to her like, she says it to Agrado, like she, she knows how to take care of me. And Agrado looks at her and she's like, bitch, I've been fucking taking care of you for two years. Yes. And it like, it's those little things that I'm like, this writing, this isn't just a scene where people are blabbing about whatever, like. Right. I mean, even in the characters that are not doing a great job at being a parent or just showing. care, because I feel like that's the broader sort of thing that we're talking about, is, like, I do believe every character in this movie is doing their best. Yes. And a lot of people's best is just, like, Rosa's mom, I think is a great example of that.

I think that that's the best she can do. Yeah. And it's not good enough. And it's like, that's part of why, like, I just love how matter of fact, Manuel is about being like, well, this isn't going to work. It's not personal. I just like. No, it's the boundaries I need. like yeah like it needs to be like what is best for the baby and I just love I was I don't know like sobbing at the end of the movie it's so intense where taking care of this baby is like a way to pay tribute to her own son and like oh the baby is a half brother to right her son Esteban yeah yeah and that like Lola her relationship with Lola is complicated and it's not like again it's like it would have been the easy children

for it to be a big like, I forgive you, no, I forgive you, no, I forgive you. But it's just sort of like, it seems like they both accept like our relationship is always going to be complicated, but time is of the essence. And, you know, Lola deserved to know about her son. And like, oof, it's just beautiful. To your point, did you both notice how there's a lot of repetition in the movie in terms of like, first, Esteban, her son, like, it looks like he's going to get run over and he doesn't get run over and then he does. And then she played this character. Manuela played this character when she was young and she ends up playing the character

again and she loses a son and then she gains this other son. There's a lot of that. And I was also reading how a take. on this movie is that this is the son wanted to be a writer since, you know, when we meet him and the take is that

this is the story he wrote about his mother. He erased himself by, you know, killing himself at the beginning or, you know, and he is a narrator at times. His voice comes back so that this is basically like him

recounting the story of his mother and he fictionalized his death in order to create this. And did you also, sorry, I'm, oh, I know, isn't so amazing? Also, like, another thing to that. And you notice at the very beginning of the movie, there's this crazy shot of her son writing down the title with his pencil. And it almost looks like, it's just a shot from below the pencil.

And it's like he's writing it. He's writing it on the camera lens. Yes, exactly. And that's crazy because it's just like, whoa, he's writing the title of the movie because then the title appears on the screen. So I just think like, God, the layers upon layers are so amazing. Yeah, there's that moment where they're watching all about Eve and the translation of the title from English to Spanish is like a direct translation and he comments on that.

Yes. Like, it should be like, Toto Sore Eve and Manuel is like, that doesn't sound right. It doesn't work. But then the title of the movie in Spanish comes up and it's Allo Sore My Madre. And you're just like, ah.

Yeah. He also says at that part, would you, literally, would you prostitute yourself to save my life? And she says, I would do anything for you. And then she's later confused for a sex worker. Right. She poses as one. Or she poses as one.

one. Yeah. And the fact that the first time that's presented, he's a sensitive teen, but he's also such a teenager. He's like, I don't know, just his writing is both beautiful and melodramatic in the way the teenage writing is. Totally. He felt very present through the whole movie, even though we only know him for five minutes. Yeah. He was. Yeah. And I'm curious, I didn't pay attention to whether his narration lasts the entire movie but it's definitely there throughout. It pops in and out.

Yeah. Another thing that I wanted to ask you if you noticed were the time jumps in the movie are wild. Like there's so many. Yeah. Yes. Which is another thing execs would have been like too many.

Right. Right. Yeah. We skip ahead like three weeks after her son's death and then a couple more weeks once she arrives in Barcelona and then there's a part where like two years passed toward the end. It is communicated. I mean like one of the time jumps is just communicated by Penelope Cruz is more pregnant. It's done pretty effortlessly. Even though I know I know sex love to get their like underwear and a twist over it. But it's like if you just visually

communicate it quickly. No problem. Everyone's fine. You know, like everyone will be okay. Yeah. And that's why this is like such a piece of art to me it's like not tainted it's just straight from his beautiful brain i love him so much he's so great well i was curious if there were any components of this story that were drawn from his life or that if it's like a kind of homage or i mean i know he dedicates the movie to his mother at the end but if he was like pulling anything from her experience. And it seems like not really he just wanted to tell a thoughtful story about women and motherhood and caretaking and women's relationships and stuff. I read that, so he made an earlier movie from 95 called The Flower of My Secret, where like student doctors are shown

being trained on how to persuade relatives of people who have passed away to allow organs to be used for organ transplants and he basically just like took that small piece, built the Manuela character around that and then wrote this entire other story, which was a huge critical and commercial success. it won awards at Cannes. It won the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language film, Golden Globes, Bafters, all this kind of stuff. I think it's, I don't know if this is still true, but it is the film from the Spanish motion picture industry, meaning like movies from Spain, not movies in Spanish. It is the one that has received more awards and honors than any other. film that has come out of Spain so good for him yeah it's it's it's movie it is the one another like aside from like the plot the beauty in this movie the colors like my husband was saying like it looks like technicolor yeah and it's just like and the way barcelona is depicted just like it's just stunning It's beautiful. It's so beautiful.

I was going to wear Almodovar red shirt for this and I forgot. So pretend like I'm wearing red. Spiritually, all three of us are wearing red. Yeah, I'm so like, this made me want to be more complete in knowing his work because I just love, I love when a director tries to explore a pretty specific theme from every angle possible. And like you can see them grow with the, it just, it's. because he was in his late 40s or maybe 50 when this came out too. And so I feel like I like that there is like a pretty wide wide diversity of age too.

Oh, God, yeah. There's mothers, but we have a new mother, but we also have, you know, a mother in her late 30s. And you have Rosa's mom. You know, like, how did he write this? I know. Something worth mentioning is the actors. who play the trans characters in this movie, where Agrado is played by an actor named Antonia San Juan, who I believe is a cis woman. The research I did about this, here's what I found.

There's a Guardian article from 2012, so, you know, quite old at this point. And you can tell from the title, it's entitled, Should trans screen rules be played by trans actors? Oh, 2012. Right. And this article briefly mentions this movie, saying, quote, there may be stealth trans actors if fear of being exposed does not daunt them, parentheses, the speculation about Antonia San Juan after she played, and then dated term here, but transsexual agrato in Pedro Almodovars all about my

was feverish. So I don't remember this happening at the time, but apparently after this movie came out. And it's like also fruitful like nobody's business. Yeah. No one's business. That's the tricky. It's like having these conversations, especially like three cis people, it's like we sound creepy. Like people say and I felt yeah, I went through that as well and just like the amount that she had to correct, you know, like we've talked about on the show many times. that trans actors should play trans characters. It makes sense. Yeah.

And that conversation was, you know, still very much being had in 2012. I wasn't surprised to see that this was the case in 1999, unfortunately. Right. Well, I will say is just based on Alma DeVar's work going forward, I don't think it would be a choice he would make now. Right. Agree. Yeah.

And he does center queer characters quite a lot. he himself is a queer filmmaker but yeah I think he would take better care to cast trans actors in trans roles but again the other trans character who we get to know Lola is played

by an actor who is a cis man so again things that were far more common in 1999 thankfully far less common these days but worth mentioning for sure I wanted

to recommend two adjacent works to this movie. And one is Veneno, which I mentioned previously. It's on HBO and it's a series. And another one is a book called Bad Girls. It's about a sex worker, a trans sex worker in Argentina. The writers Argentine and trans woman and it's so fucking beautiful. It's called Bad Girls. And the writer's Camilla Sosa.

Okay. It's going on the list. Good companion books and shows to this movie. I would also recommend a fantastic woman from 2017 about a trans woman living in Chile. Love that. I still haven't seen it.

It's really good. We should cover it on the show sometime. Yeah. Any of their thoughts on this movie? I hope my IVF works and I can become a mother. Us too. I'm rooting for you. Thank you.

I'm just announcing it in every podcast I go on. I'm like, I'm starting IVF, but it's like, well, that's what I'm doing. Starting IVS on the press tour, baby. Let's go. Oh, my God. Yeah, the worst. I'm traveling to New York. to do my reading tomorrow and I'm going with like a thousand syringes and vials of things.

That's, I mean, it's going to be a memorable trip. Yeah. I'm so excited for you. Thank you. And this, watching this movie, like the day before I started was kind of crazy. It has to be. Yeah. There couldn't be a more mother movie to exist.

Yeah. It's like I want to take it as a sign that all is well, you know, like, but at the same time I don't know it was just it felt very I hate saying kismet but it really did feel that way so yeah yeah I guess my final thought is just sort of like a conclusive I appreciate that this movie takes such care to explore women of different ages and generations and sexualities and stations in life and personalities and again the relationships between them or among them are all so interesting and authentic in a way that again most movies don't bother to characterize at all but that's what this entire movie is about men are largely absent from the story and the ones who we do see like you mentioned Tamara are usually being antagonistic toward women which is again a very familiar experience for

women. I did want to mention the monologue from Agrado talking about how much she hates drag queens and saying that they're sleazy. Also felt very, very dated. For sure. Yeah. Wait, what

was that? I missed it. So it's when they go to see Sister Rosa, right when we first meet that character. And I don't even know what prompts this tyrant. exactly but agrato is just saying that basically that she feels that drag queens kind of make a mockery of trans women you would think there might be more solidarity between yeah my assumption of where that was

coming from was how frequently trans women and drag queens especially the further back you go were conflated with each other and I was like maybe it's coming from a place of frustration but that is not on drag queens that's on society losers right but um but yeah there's there's just so much to appreciate about this movie yeah I do think like the movie does a good job of sort of contextualizing like Lola doesn't get the chance to be a parent in the sufi and because I I was also worried that like she was going to be made out to be like a deadbeat parent but she just didn't know and that was a choice that was made and it just made me want to see and hope that we get more movies about transparency oh yes there's just like not a lot there is

the show transparent but there's a lot of problems with that show I would love to just see where movies with transparency maybe just don't even call attention to it just like parents you know Right. Absolutely. The movie does pass the Bechtel test. Practically the whole time. Except where they're talking about various Estebans. Right.

Or talking to doctors who are being awful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As far as our nipple scale goes, where we rate the movie 0 to 5 nipples, examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I mean, this movie gets high marks, like four, four and a half. It's a rare movie that performs well on our show. I would take a little bit away from just the actors cast to play the trans characters, being cis actors.

Otherwise, it's just such a beautiful depiction of women and their intents. lives and their relationships with other women, some of which we see are very positive and uplifting, some of which are far more complicated. Well, I guess all of the relationships are complicated, but some are not so positive. But there's just like so much nuance and authenticity to everything we see that, again, most movies are like, there's one woman and of course she's a mother, because that's what women are. Whereas this movie is like, yes, some women are mothers and let's explore that thoughtfully so it's just really well done and i'll give it four and a half nipples and i'll distribute them among all the women in the cast plus

sepeak the dog oh so pique incredible uh yeah i'll go four and a half as well i just think this is a beautiful thoughtful movie yeah i would love to know what our trans listeners think about it as well but i was just like so i i didn't know anything going into this movie and boy it puts you through it in a good way but it puts you through it and i feel like really effortlessly avoids all of these like stereotypes of mothers that he does so well so i'm going to give it for and a half nipples, I will, yeah, I guess I'm going to, I don't know, I mean, I love a grotto so much. Two to a grotto, because that's just me nepotisming, my favorite character. I will give one to Manuela.

I'll give one to Pedro Almodovar himself, because he really, he really killed this one. And I'll give the half to baby Esteban. He's cute. Tamara, how about you? You know, I was going to say four and a half nipples, too. But then I thought I'm going to add the half and give it a five nipples because... It's your favorite movie. Yes.

And because the fact that it came out in 1999, I'm just, it's... We haven't even today, like, reached themes like this in whatever year it is now. Like, there's two trans women in the movie. Like now I'm working on TV too where it's like there can be the one character mate like it's unheard of so for that reason I give it the full nip and I'm going to give them all to Manuela because that performance by Cecilia Roth is a dream come true incredible so beautiful and because her character is the goddess caretaker and yeah wonderful amazing Thank you so much for bringing us this movie and chatting about it with us I think probably from episode to episode the wildest genre jump

we've made with a single guest in the history of this show Home Alone and All About My Mother Like, yeah What do you mean? They're basically the same movie Two important films Oh my God, it's so funny I remember that the one we did It was also like late on a Saturday night

And we were like drinking wine And the vibe was just completely now I'm like It was a live show, too. Yeah, I was like, oh, this has to be funny. We've all grew up. Yeah, totally. Well, thank you so much for having me. Of course.

Thank you for coming back on. Come back anytime. Surprise us again with a completely different movie. Yes. And congratulations on your book. Where can we buy it? Where can we follow you? It is available anywhere you buy books.

I like to not buy it from Amazon if possible. But do what you must. And it's available for as an audio book narrated by me. And I cry like 20 times during the narration. So that's kind of fun. And you can follow me on Instagram. I am Tamara Yahia. That's spelled Tamara, Y-A-J-I-A.

You can follow us on Instagram as well at Bechtelcast. You can subscribe to our Patreon, aka Matri-on. where we release two episodes per month focusing on a brilliant theme, all for $5 a month at patreon.com slash bechtelcast. And with that, let's go walk Rose's dog. Yes, let's. Bye. Bye-bye.

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