The Bechdel Cast - Always Be My Maybe with Keah Brown

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

On this episode, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Keah Brown discuss Always Be My Maybe (2019)! Here's the link for Jamie's upcoming book events -- https://us.macmillan.com/tours/jamie-loftus-raw-dog/  --  Follow Keah on Instagram at @keah_maria and check out her website at https://keahbrown.com  and here are the links mentioned in the episode --  https://www.vox.com/first-person/2019/6/13/18661961/always-be-my-maybe-ali-wong-randall-park /  https://www.glamour.com/story/ali-wong-randall-park-always-be-my-maybe-interview / https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/what-always-be-my-maybe-gets-about-making-an-asian-american-rom-com / https://planamag.com/always-be-my-maybe-gentrification-and-the-asian-american-rom-com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart podcast. Hi, it's Emily Tisch-Sussman, host of the podcast, She Pivots. In honor of Mother's Day, we have some very special guests. I'm Elaine Welteroth. And I'm Keelan Murray. Both women pivoted out of their careers after having their kids, proving that motherhood is just another chapter in our journey, not the end. Come on over to hear their full stories.

You can listen to She Pivots on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdel cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin' vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello, Bechdel Cast listeners. Hello.

Jamie and Caitlin here. A little plug at the top. It's all coming together. It's all happening. I am going to be going on a book tour for the paperback release of my book Raw Dog, the Naked Truth about hot dogs ever heard of it. It is coming out in soft cover. If you are the kind of person that doesn't want to spend $28 on a book, fair enough.

We have a more affordable option. And if you haven't purchased the book and maybe you're able to're able to now, you know, it's also a great gift I've sound so desperate. The thing is it's a soft cover book and people love those and I love a flaccid book Yeah, it's a floppy little book And if you do have the hardcover and you're a completionist There is also a brand new forward that I wrote and also the acknowledgements have been adjusted to acknowledge that my agents were Zionists. So I don't really thank them anymore.

So there's a thrilling addition there as well, but there is new stuff in the book and it costs less. And we love that. I will be going on tour throughout the country to promote the new book. And if you're a Bechtel head and you're in the area, this is a really great chance to come and hang out. It's all where I'm at bookstores. I did kind of bigger shows the first time around, but this time we're just chilling.

So I love that for you, Katelyn, with your permission, I'm just going to rattle off some dates. What if I was like, no? No, click, you hang up the Zoom call. I'm gonna go pee. No, please, by all means, tell us. Okay, May 13th, 2025. It's almost my birthday. It's so, I know, I'm missing your birthday.

It's an act of violence. I will be at North Fig Bookshop in Los Angeles, hosted by friend of the cast, Julia Clare. May 14th, I will be at Carmichael's Bookstore in Louisville, Kentucky. On May 15th, I will be at the Cambridge Public Library in Massachusetts with the Harvard Bookstore, and I will be in conversation with one of my dear friends,

PBS's own Tori Bedford. On the 19th of May, I will be in Portland, Maine at Longfellow Books, hosted by friend of the cast, Maya Williams. I am very, very excited. On the 20th, I will be going down to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My home state. I know, they're gonna be begging.

They're like, where are they? I will be at the Midtown Scholar Bookstore and Cafe in conversation with Joe Piazza. Then on May 21st, I will be at the Fountain Bookstore in Richmond, Virginia. And on May 22nd, I will be at Copperfield Books in Petaluma, California. And finally, on May 31st, I will be at Marin Country Mart, which is also with Copperfield's book in Larkspur, California. So if you live in those areas, please come out. I would love to see you.

I'd love to chat. Please recommend your favorite hot dog. Let's talk Bechtelcast. Let's do whatever. And there will be dates announced later in the summer. So if you would like a show or a signing to happen in your town, please reach out and I will send it to my publisher and be like, see, I should go there anyways. That's a great, it's begging works sometimes. And we'll link this full thing in the description, but see you soon. I'm I'm making a little outfit and that's the Jamie Loftus promise. I can't wait to see.

So if you click the link in the description, it will take you to the full page where you can register to go to these events they are all free events so come and hang out and provided that I get my shit together in time there will also be speakers from local unions at all of these signings so come out make some friends come hang out and let's eat some hot dogs. Beautiful we'll throw the link to be able to access registration for the events on our Linktree as well, Linktree slash Bechtelcast,

so there's no excuse not to come. It's free, it's fun. I'll be wearing a little outfit. Come buy the book. Woohoo! One last quick note about this episode. We were kind of strapped for time during this recording and we ended up having to record some pickups a few days later with

just Jamie and myself, so there's a chunk toward the end of the episode where you might notice that our guest is not saying anything because she is not there. So just giving everyone a quick heads up about that. Enjoy the episode. The Bechdel cast. Do do do do. Do do do do do do do. Wow. Jamie, will you always be my maybe?

No, I'll always be your baby. Baby. Yeah. I'll be your baby girl. Always be your baby. Always be my. Oh, be your baby girl. Always be your baby. Always be my baby girl, Nicole Kidman, 2024. So true. I, you know, it is funny thinking about

after now having seen the movie, that even the title is indicating, are these two right for each other? Welcome to the Backstreet Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens

using the Bechtel test as a jumping off point. And that of course is a media metric created by Alison Bechtel. There are many versions of the test and the one that we use is this. Do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is there conversation about something other than a man?

And in this economy, is it too much to ask? Yes. Today we'll find out. Yeah, we're really excited to, we're just gonna jump in this week. This is a long time request. I think we have been getting consistent requests for this movie since it came out almost six years ago. So, you know, thank you for your patience. The time is now. The guest is perfect. We are covering Always Be My Maybe Maybe 2019, directed by Ninajka Khan,

starring and written by Ali Wong and Randall Park. Ever heard of them? Hopefully. They're great. They're so funny. And speaking of so funny, our guest today is an author, screenwriter, journalist, actress, also best friend to the pod. Period. And you know her from past episodes such as Ever After, Hairspray, Cadet Kelly, 1997 Cinderella.

It's Keeya Brown. Yay! Welcome back! Welcome back! I'm so happy to be here and they totally organically came up with calling me bestie of the pod. It was totally organic. I didn't pressure them at all.

It just felt right. It felt right. It did. I just love them and I was like, I need to be here. I miss you. We miss you. Thanks for coming back. Welcome back.

Always, always, always. So what is your history, your relationship with Always Be My Maybe? Okay, so here's the thing. I love Ali Wong. And when it first premiered, I was like, Okay, well, I'm gonna watch it at point blank period. And then I watched it, I fell in love with Randall Park. I've been, you know, rewatching it kind of regularly since. Cause I mean, I knew who Randall Park was cause he was on Fresh Off the Boat. But really my relationship is just like, wow,

a man who I like, wild. They really make it hard to like them. Yeah, they do. But Randall Park is, I think, like S tier, just naturally charming. Very much so. Like, just irresistible. Very likable.

So yeah, you watched it when it first came out and then have just been watching it steadily since? Yes, pretty much. It had been a while since I did a rewatch before the pod, but I rewatched it this morning just to, you know, refresh myself. But I tend to watch it a lot when I'm like, I need a rom-com day. I need something that feels like, you know, life is good. Nice. I'm not a big rom-com person, never have been. But this is one that I like a lot more than a lot of other rom-coms. I saw it

when it, I think right when it first came out. Also my concept of time, I mean, I'm not saying anything new here, but the pandemic really warped all of our understanding. This movie came out like the year before. I feel like I have a real hard time with movies from 2019 now where you're like, you have no idea. You don't know what it's like here. Well, I was like, it's not the movie's fault, but I'm just like, buckle in, assholes. I was like, yeah, this movie probably came out in like 2023.

No, it came out so many years before that. Six years ago. Which felt like the weirdest time capsule. Yeah. Watching it back, you're like, why does this feel like an old timey film? Yeah, it is. That was another thing I had in my notes where I feel like this movie for me right now exists in this kind of like uncanny valley where it feels kind of dated because it was six years ago and it's very like of the moment it came out but it's not old enough to feel nostalgic for it and so I feel like comedy movies that are like between like six and you know ten ish

years old you're like it's just it's I don't know it's it's it doesn't feel like oh yeah I miss this time I'm, I don't miss 2019. I guess in some ways I do, but it was already pretty bad. But yeah, I mean, I saw it pretty early on into it being released on Netflix. I think it got like a tiny theatrical release, but it was like mostly a Netflix movie. Yeah, and you can tell because they really broadly mention Netflix.

Yeah. Yeah. But the thing is, you know what's the grossest part? I find that so charming. I mean, I do too. It's like the Christmas expanded. Yeah. When Lindsay Lohan is watching The Christmas Prince, I'm like, yeah.

Yeah, I like that. But is there anything more 2019 than Ali I'm like, yeah, yeah, I like that. But is there anything more 2019 than Ally Wong being like, is it the crown? I'm like, oh my god, it was a moment. It was a moment. Yeah. Anyway, so I generally like this movie. I have some thoughts. I have some notes, but this is more my speed when it comes to rom-coms. And I had seen it, I think twice before, prepping for this episode. But yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. Jamie, what about you?

Okay. This is my first time seeing this movie. I was going in, like kind of not even thinking that I would not enjoy it because I love Ali Wong, Randall Park, one of the most charismatic comic actors that exists. I've read a little bit about the movie before. I love that they co-wrote it together.

I love that there was so much energy like of their fans to get this movie made. I love that they have like randomly known each other for a long time and wanted to do this for I found the background story so charming like let's go I can't wait and I did not like the movie. I didn't like it. I found it and a part of this is like me projecting a little bit but but but hear me out. I think this couple is not gonna make it. I think this, I found it very stressful. I found this couple to be very, very, very stressful.

I think she should not have this man's child. He learned how to do laundry three days ago, and she's like, I think I'm gonna, I wanna be with you for the rest of my life. Like, I don't know, I don't know. And I also find it like, this is very rom-com-y, but I feel like a lot of rom-coms, the reason that they don't quite click is because they don't and I also find it like this is very rom-com II But I feel like a lot of rom-coms the reason that they don't quite click is because they don't bother to write one of the characters

But both of these characters are we know a lot about them. They're fully realized We know about their backgrounds and that is why I feel confident when I say these people are fundamentally incompatible for each other They are not going to make it I think they should marry other people and then like hook up over the holidays, like grownups do. They should not get married. I think truly like I,

watching the last 15 minutes, I was like, I'm so worried for her because this guy, and I am projecting here, but like these things happen. A guy comes, uh, you know, he's like, guess what, guess what? Two weeks ago, everything about me changed. I am a fundamentally new person and it's for you. I no longer resent your success.

I am willing to uproot my entire life to be with you. I've fully processed the death of my mother. And actually I think it would be amazing if you made a ton of money making her recipes. I also think that's creepy. But anyway, stealing his mom, plagiarizing his mom's recipes. I think she should. I mean, I feel like she should have like checked in with him more before being like, guess what my business is? You're dead. Mom's recipe. What I like, I am not rooting for them. I think that 10 days after the events of the last scene in this movie,

he wakes up and is like, oh my God, I have left everything I ever know. I don't have a job. I have stated in public that it is my dream to, like, I feel like the feminism of this movie is very weird where it's like feminism is a man definitely changing and giving up on any of his ambition. And you're like, no, it's like feminism is a man definitely changing and giving up on any of his ambition. And you're like, no, it's not,

but his band isn't gonna be successful. Like we all saw it. It's just, I found it so stressful. Like she has taken on, and I think she's asking too much of him by having him move across the country. Like she is not compromised with him at all. I just am like, I don't know.

I've been in couples counseling before and these two are not gonna go the distance. I feel for them. They deserve happiness, but not with each other. I don't disagree. I also don't think they're compatible, nor will they make it, but I've never seen a rom-com. My blood pressure was off the charts.

I was like so scared for them. For me, I'm just like, I watch any rom-com and I'm like, yeah, none of these people are gonna make it. I don't even like consider that. See, I think, I mean, I see what you're saying. But I think that I just found it, I mean, and there's, we'll talk about it. There's so much to love about this movie. There's a lot to love about this movie.

But I just was so, I found the central relationship to be so distracting where every beat of the movie of them growing closer, I'm like, this is toxic. This is toxic. And you don't need to marry the person you lost your virginity to. Like you can just be close with them and be like, I always find that to be like a weirdly conservative thing to be like, Oh, you know, it's your first love. Also this, Oh my God, sorry.

I was, my face is hot. The scene where, and this is definitely be projecting because I recently lost a parent, but like the way that that is the dead mom trope I thought was so cheap and like He also I mean it is funny that Randall Park is visibly like 45 and he's like Just a 17 year. I'm just a little guy. I loved that I loved it because I felt the same way about anyone.. I was like, yeah Diva did they try?

It was literally watching pen 15 for 10 minutes of the movie Yeah Celebratory there. I wish I almost wish they'd played into that a little more But I mean I didn't have an issue with that But just that that like the way that that played out where his mom had just died, Ally Wong is like, well, she's my mom too. And Randall Park correctly is like,

well, no, she's not. And then she's like, I'm never gonna speak to you again. I was like, that's awful. You're being a bad friend and she never apologizes. She never apologizes for doing that. I, oh, oh, these characters, I just think they need to go to therapy and don't move in together. Don't have a kid. Focus on yourselves. What I'm about to say is so controversial. I can't wait. First of all, I disagree entirely. Okay, so here's the thing.

I think it wasn't that he, I'm speaking solely of the end of the movie. I don't think he flew there and was like, I changed all of these things about myself just for you. I think it was just like, I would rather fuck up on all lives things with you than I would without you. And so for me, and here's the kicker, we deeply agree that she never apologized. And I think that that's so weird. I don't understand why movies, well meaning or not cut out necessary apologies. Because I think that she desperately needed to give him one when she said you're an asshole and didn't talk to him for like 15 years because he said hey my mom just died like my mom just died and I know you loved her cool we love that but she was my mom like he's grieving

hello but um I don't know there was just something about it that I was just like and this is really in part because I'm so used to couples not having chemistry anymore. Yeah, like that's a very, their chemistry is amazing. Their chemistry is amazing. So I think that that's what's doing the heavy lifting for me. But I literally was like, Oh, I hope they make it. I hope they make it even though they've got a ton of stuff to work through. Like, like you said, she doesn't really compromised at all throughout the movie. I forgot until you said it that they literally flew across the world. And my dad is like, thanks for letting us visit to see the new restaurant. And then I was

like, oh, right. Yeah. She's like, I made this. Right. She doesn't mean even though she has a restaurant in San Francisco. That she could easily run. She could have changed the restaurant in San Francisco to be closer to what she always wanted it to be, not open a new one. And the end of the plot moved so quickly that it was like very whiplashy where, yeah, no, she doesn't compromise at all, which is, I guess, okay to the extent that they broke up.

Like she didn't owe him anything. But like there is this montage of like Randall Park randomly gets his shit together. And he's like, I'm just, he just moved into his own apartment and now he's leaving. Like, what do you mean? You know how expensive it is to break a lease? He was like-

In San Francisco? I was like, get real. He's like, I'm outta of here. All right, before we, sorry, sorry. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap and then we will dive back in. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job or a place or a relationship? Join me, Emily Tish Sussman, over on She Pivots, where I explore the inspiring pivots of women, dig deeper into the personal reasons behind them, and leave you with the inspiration you

need to make your next pivot. In honor of Mother's Day, we have some very special guests. I'm Elaine Welteroth. And I'm Caitlin Murray. Both women pivoted out of their careers after having their kids, proving that motherhood is just another chapter in our journey, not the end. It's like, it's kind of like, will you have more babies? Yes. Will I always be me? Yeah. And will I continue growing?

Yes. Because I was really in the trenches and I knew my worth and my value as a mom. Come on over to hear their full stories. You can listen to She Pivots on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. This is thrilling. This is hot. This is heat from a stove that Sasha has. Randall Park's dead mom's recipe. Also, not bad to be rude, but why couldn't they kill off the dad? Like I like I thought his dad I thought the dad character was so charming I love the dad, but if you're gonna kill off a character, why is it always the mom? It's always often always and I was literally okay again

I just like don't think this movie's very well written because the I was literally in the middle of writing down I love the mom character and then it cut to they're just chilling on a bridge and the dad walks it reminded me of the first scene in a series of unfortunate events. Oh my gosh. Like he comes out of the shadows and he's like bad news. Your mom's dead and then cut to their fucking you're like what it The pacing is so bizarre. You know what I hated? I hated her parents. Because I hate when it's like, parents are absentee. And then they're like, well, I showed up now. And like, again, this is me projecting. But I hate an absentee parent that's like, Oh, well, you know, I went in and bought the food at your restaurant. And I didn't tell them that we were related. So like, I paid full price. That's going to be the fix to our relationship. It's

like, either way, I know that Randall's mom wasn't her mom, but her parents still, like she didn't have anybody else when she said, I had me, she's like, you have parents. And she's like, yeah, they were alive, but they weren't very very. I wish that they had like gotten into that a little bit more because we didn't, we weren't really told, unless I missed it and it was said in passing, we weren't really told why they weren't around.

There wasn't really, which I mean, I just would have appreciated, I guess, more context there. And then on Randall Park's side, I feel like you could get, I mean, it's still, I agree, the dead mom trope is such a trope, but like, if more reference was made to her throughout the movie, it would feel less tropey. But she really only comes up at very plot convenient moments. Yeah, I was curious about her parents too,

because you're totally right, Kia. Like I think the bond that she has with Randall Park's mom, Marcus, sorry, Marcus' mom, I believe her name is Judy. Yes. But I thought that was really cool, and a surrogate parent and someone who can give you emotional support, but they just don't really get into it ever.

And I don't know, yeah. I just, it would, and then the way that, yeah, she, the way she forgives her parents at the end, it feels like she just does that because the movie needs her to. And like you're saying like, Oh, how convenient that now that I am wildly successful, you're like, I don't know, I guess I'll show up and like get a bunch of fancy food and like, You're like, I don't know, I guess I'll show up and like get a bunch of fancy food and like you're like, even the little birthday party they had where she was they were like, oh, they go all out for the sun, God's son, whatever he is. And she's like, oh, when I was eight, they gave me like a pair of flip flops. Thank you. I said a trapper keeper Jesus. I'm aging myself.

A pair of flip flopsaps and I'm just like. And like what changed? Yeah, like explore that. Why are they not saying, like I just think not enough rom-coms show apologies in the way that I need them to. For sure. Yeah, we've talked about that quite a bit on many episodes.

But on a few levels here, like, yeah, like we needed a better, I mean there was technically an apology from the parents, but it was like half-assed. Yeah, it was like, hey, we're here now. Yeah. We flew to you, so like we got on a plane, let's just let everything else go. Like step one. There's also like some Buscemi test stuff in here that, again, towards the end it's so rushed where they break up, it seems like the understanding is they're not gonna speak anymore,

but then he starts calling her, contacting her every single day. Being like, hey, I don't know if you wanna hear from me and you aren't replying, but guess what? I learned how to do laundry on this, my 45th birthday, or like whatever the fuck he's doing. And he keeps contacting her and the plot validates that he was right to do that

because she was buying all of his merch or something. Which I- And she wasn't upset and you're like, ugh. It's like, if that's the case, the merch buying was what bugged me because I was like, if you're buying his merch and you're not upset anymore, then reach out and say something, especially because they had the earlier scene where they both wanted to text each other and neither of them did. It would have been a really nice callback for her to be like, even if she wasn't like everything is good, just like, you know, good luck or whatever

some sort of like dramatic ass sign off that you know that even when they get back to being in touch, that would have made it even sweeter. But I will say, my favorite part of the entire movie, surprisingly, is when they like hook up for the first time after he punches Keanu Reeves, because I remember watching it for the first time and being like, Oh, so like Randall Park is hot. You know, like, Oh, yeah, plot aside, I was like, Oh, okay. Because I forget that men can be hot. I forget that they can be attracted so often, so often. And then I'm just like, Oh, wow, okay. I see what she was doing. All right. Like, everybody she kisses in the movie is attractive. She's so

right. She's so real for that. And but then it's just like, yeah, I think about certain things of like, I love the movie. I love their chemistry. Chemistry is so rare. For movies these days, I think that they can just put hot people together. And it's gonna be great, like anyone but you, you know. Oh, is that the Glenn Powell, what's her face? Yeah, I hate it. I hated it.

Not a shred of chemistry, so badly written of a movie as well. She literally acts like she just took a Benadryl before each of her lines. Like she took a Benadryl, they said action, and she did the line. Can't, no chemistry. It was like watching paint dry but worse.

So bad. That was a movie that I was like, eh, I'll watch it on a plane in five years. You know? Don't skip it, don't even bother. Okay, there's better plain movies to watch. Yes. Anyway, so the recap of...

We've told you a lot of what happened. Yeah, so I'm gonna speed through this. Okay, here we go. We meet two best friends as kids in San Francisco in 1996. They mysteriously sound like an alley... Sorry, I'm complaining again. Every character in this movie mysteriously sounds like they're reading Ali Wong's stand up.

It doesn't matter, these children speak in lines from Baby Cobra. So this is Sasha Tran and Marcus Kim, their best friends. Sasha is a latchkey kid, her parents are often out running their store, so she goes over to Marcus's house quite a bit and hangs out with him and his mom and his dad. His mom teaches Sasha a few things about cooking. She also already has kind of like a proclivity for it and she has to like prepare

her own meals quite a bit. This will obviously pay off later because she becomes a chef. Anyway, they hang out. There's a quick montage of them growing up together, they're goofing, they're hanging. Marcus is in a band as a teenager, that'll also be a thing later in the movie. We cut to 2003, they're now seniors in high school. Sasha is played by Ali Wong, Marcus is played by Randall Park now.

They're still best friends. And then Marcus gets word that his mom has died in an accident. And after the funeral, Sasha gets Marcus out of the house to try to get his mind off of it. They start kissing via her surprise kissing him initially. But- Again, I'm just like, her bedside manner

with his mother's tragic passing is so unbelievably bad. Where she's like, will this help? I'm like, no! No. But they start making out and they have sex in the back of his Toyota Corolla. But it's very awkward afterward and they get into an argument

and Sasha storms off. Cut to 2019 in Los Angeles, ever heard of it? Sasha and Marcus haven't spoken for many years. They were at Stories. Did you notice when they were at Stories? Oh no I didn't. There was definitely one scene it was supposed to be San Francisco, but LA heads will know the bookstore stories is one of the greatest places in the city. And there's definitely they definitely shot rent teenage Randall Park being in his band was like at one of our bookstores down the street. I did not realize that.

Wow. I would recognize that weird mural. It's just like when Lady Gaga was at the Virgil. Wow. Yeah. Wow. A star is born. Hollywood. Hollywood. I was like, wow, I've bombed on both of those stages. That's so cool. Same. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, so it's 2019 now now Sasha is now a successful celebrity chef. She's about to open a restaurant in San Francisco in a couple weeks. She's got a hot fiance, a fiance Brandon played by Daniel Day Kim. So we're cheering. Daniel Day Kim in a beige track suit. I was like really horny for the beige tracksuit for some reason. I was like, wow. I was like, really horny for the beige tracksuit for some reason. I was like, wow.

I was like, yes, diva. I was like, I didn't even know your game, but I know it now. When someone can look hot in a tracksuit, it's like, okay, this is another level. Good for you. Good for you, man. Truly. Anyway, so they're engaged, but it doesn't seem like they have a very warm or loving relationship. Meanwhile,

Marcus lives in San Francisco. He's still in his band called Hello Peril. They play, you know, like crummy gigs, or what we're supposed to think are crummy gigs. He smokes a lot of weed. He still lives with his dad, who's played by James Sato. And Marcus is not motivated by capitalism. So we are supposed to think that he's kind of a loser. And I have a lot of stuff to talk about regarding class. Okay, that's another big thing about like,

I don't, I do like that their business, again they're like, oh you're not I'm like These are really good union jobs like shut up Let's call a spade a spade. Do I think that the band is trash? Absolutely, but his date Dad is day job is kind of like yeah a big one. Like that's a good job That's a good man, Savannah. And it is wild. I truly, I was like, I cannot like, especially because these characters are in their thirties.

Like I would not be like, oh, you know, this man that I'm in love with who has a like great union job. I'm not gonna be like, quit, leave everything you know, and be in your horrible band. Like, I don't support men's dreams like that. Like, you know. Well, I think it's because he works a blue collar job

that we're supposed to be like, he needs to get out of that. He needs to do more. Yeah, that's sort of the part of the girl bossiness of this. It is coded that someone could not possibly be satisfied or content working a blue collar job, or that they couldn't be content living where they grew up either.

You have to move to New York City and be an artist or you're a failure. Totally. OK, so back in LA, Sasha's fiance Brandon says that he wants to postpone their wedding and see other people for a while. And Sasha's friend and colleague Veronica played by Michelle Butoh is like, what the fuck like fuck that guy. And Sasha is like, yeah, probably.

Then she and Veronica head to San Francisco together to open the new restaurant. They rent a house there. And Veronica hires Marcus and his dad to install or repair an air conditioning unit. And Veronica did this to try to get Sasha and Marcus to reconnect, but things are still awkward between them.

This is the first time they're seeing each other in like 16 years or something. Mr. Kim suggests that Sasha goes to Marcus' gig the following night, and he also says like, I'm surprised you lost touch. I always thought you'd maybe get together. And they're like, uh huh. He's really plot vibes at different moments.

Yeah. Where he walks into the scene, he's like, your mother is dead. He walks into the scene, he's like, you two should get together at the end of the movie. I also cackled because, first of all, I love the actor who plays his dad, but I also laughed at the point in the film

when he was like, I can do my shot in the ass by myself. And it's like, we saw him give you a shot in the shoulder. So I was, I was like, when did it switch to? Right, again, it's just like the lack of detail that appears at different, because it's like, like they're like I'm his caretaker But we don't know we don't know have any context for what that means He implies that he doesn't need a caretaker But then it kind of comes back later as if he does like if this is really

And and and then again, I think ali w Wong's character was super insensitive by being like, what do you mean? You're just saying you need to be your dad's caretaker because you won't follow your dreams. I was like, how are you projecting? You're projecting. And then the thing with him getting with the Diana Ross impersonator.

I was like, okay, I guess. Like, he's done with. Like, I'm happy for you. You know, we love a black woman from Jenny's Orphanage. But it just, it just seemed so random. And also too. I did not like the character of his girlfriend. I know you're not supposed to like the girlfriend Jenny. But I particularly found the like Keanu Reeves bit with her annoying. Like not him. We love Keanu and like she's a great actress, but it was also just like, plot wise, she's like, I'm just gonna stay and like, you know, talk, talking about Susan. Oh, I'm not even there yet. Sorry.

Oh, we're about to be. We're getting close. Yeah, this is this is a chaos episode. I love it. Okay, so Sasha decides to go to Marcus's band's gig that night or the next night or whatever. And it's a nice time. And it seems like maybe things are starting to be less awkward between Marcus and Sasha. But then Marcus's girlfriend Jenny,

played by Vivian Bang, shows up. She's a big fan of Sasha's and wants to cook for her, so Jenny invites her back to her and Marcus's place and basically makes a hot dog based dish for Sasha. Yeah, and Sasha's a real snob about it. I'm like listen there's a book I have a book for you. Although to be fair who likes who likes Vienna sausages though and her defects? I think uh well okay I'm uniquely going to defend them but when properly cooked it didn't seem like she cooked it very well though.

Yeah. It seemed like a pretty gross dish. It did. Yeah. But the whole idea here is that Jenny is very kooky and clearly not the right match for Marcus. Right. Even though it's like they're making it out.

Like, and there, I thought were a couple of cheap jokes that they have this character say, where it's like, the idea, again, where it's just like, this movie has moments that feel bizarrely conservative. Like Jenny's character brings up that she was, she used to be polyamorous, and that's very much like- Played for laughs, yeah. She's weird.

What a weirdo. What a weirdo. Yeah. And then the spiritual thing, married thing, like that. What a weirdo. Yeah. And then the spiritedly married thing. Right. That was also played for laughs. Yeah. It was just, yeah, it was just kind of cheap

because it's like, okay, if polyamory is not your thing, that's fine, but we're looking at two characters who lost their virginity to each other and barely get along. Like, I'm supposed to take your feelings on polyamory seriously? Get a grip Anyway, so

They're all hanging out and then Marcus gives Sasha a ride home in the car that they had sex in all those years ago Which really pissed me. I know we're like a solid, but I just hate that he got that car like it took me off I don't know why it had such a visible reaction. I was like, get a new vehicle. You've got a good job. Like I don't know. It's not a it's not a money. You're not still driving the car. Get a vehicle shrug. They're both such anyway. They they're reminiscing about the past. and then she invites him to a birthday party the following day at her parents' house.

They're celebrating, a little cousin or something. During the party, Sasha gets a call from her fiance, Brandon, who she had seen on social media canoodling with Padma Lakshmi. And so, Sasha yells at him. Daniel Day came and Padma Lakshmi, like Sasha yells at him. Daniel Day came in Padma Lakshmi like honestly make it happen. Who wouldn't want to watch? Someone arrange that date.

Anyway they break up is basically what happens. Meanwhile Sasha and Marcus seem to be connecting more and more, although it's still a little awkward between them. But they go out for some food and they talk about Marcus's band. Sasha thinks that they're good and they can be really big, but Marcus doesn't have huge aspirations and she keeps judging him for that. Which again is like this is where it starts, it really started to kick in for me of like, then you guys just aren't compatible.

It's okay, like it's not a character, I mean, I think the way that she's judgmental of him is a character flaw and is a dark quality. But it's like, if she wants someone who is really ambitious and working in a creative field, this is not the person for you. Accept it. Also, I think the bigger thing is, and again,

as the defender, the sole defender of this relationship aside. I'm neutral. Is like, the band's not good. Like, Randall Park. I feel like that, because Randall Park, I guess, was it. He's like, it's based on my band from the 90s. And I was like, well, I'm glad you're an actor.

Right, the thing is, I know he likes to rap and do that stuff, like on the late night talk shows and stuff, and that's great. We love a hobby, but the band itself, that sounded so mean. Randall Park, I love you. He's amazing. You're perfect. But it's just like, I just don't feel like the band itself

was as good as She was trying to make us believe it was Therefore I was like, oh she wants to really like him because she's just keeps telling people. Oh my god They're good. They could be big. No, they won't be They can't be when she's like, why don't you go on a world tour? I'm like, what do you talk? Did you hear what? talent and money and time? What are you guys doing?

And I think maybe that's very alien with me. I'm an earth sign. But I just feel like, I'm a very girl, so we have a plan. I just feel like your job with your dad is great. If you wanted to take over that business, that made more sense to me than holding on on to, I'm going to be in this business. Like do it for fun. But I just felt like plot wise, it didn't work to me like her opening the restaurant

after his mom worked for her character. Yeah, I agree. I didn't mind some of the band's lyrics. I'll say that. Oh, no. I thought they were kind of funny. Yes, absolutely. Like, I punch you on every I sing that all the time. Like, I was I was singing it as the credits. I'm like, why do I remember all these words? I thought the tennis ball song was cute. But they're, they're like 40 like 40 I was like I can't be just singing songs about tennis balls. Beg to differ. And be like and I'm a viable partner it's that's again but like yeah I agree that they were true they were really pushing the

band is like but and and like you're saying Kia that his character it didn't seem like that was his like I, I wanna be a famous musician. Like that, I don't know. Yeah, it's like, if he is content, I don't know, it just felt like so like black and white in terms of what needed to happen with his character because it does seem like, yes, it would probably make sense for him to like,

have his own place if he's able to and like mature a little bit and it but because the movie doesn't seem interested in like examining his grief or like why he's making those choices and and doesn't want to leave the home or whatever it is like I just wish that there was some sort of gray area to explore of like, yes, he has a ways to go and like he's still growing as a person, but that doesn't mean like, I don't know. Yeah. Just that the only version of success is being a famous musician in New York city is like, is why it's kind of, it's,

yeah, it's also just, I think really weird that like, like, I think you can absolutely be career focused like Ellie Wong's character why do I not know their names what is going on with me Sasha and Marcus Sasha okay the thing with like Ellie Wong's the thing with Sasha okay I know I want to do I want to write I want to have restaurants I want to do like like this to have restaurants, I want to do, like, this is important to me. And his sort of thing is like, I'm breathing, and that's important to me.

But I don't know, I just felt like it would have been so much richer if he had a thing that he was like, good at. You know? Again, that's me speaking from a capitalistic society, but like, what if he could draw a girl folded like a lawn chair? I would have like one of his French girls. Yeah, like do something like, I don't know.

I just felt like I maybe I'm just a defender of the band. Hello, peril. But I was like, that is his thing. That is what he's doing. And he needs your support. Is it amazing? No, but I would have gone to see them for fun one night. I don't know.

For fun, for sure. Yeah, for fun. Yeah, for fun. One night. Imagine her trying to follow him around on a world tour. I mean... And it's just the same three songs. I was like, this band has been together for 20 years or something and they only have three songs

which is wild because everybody looks younger than I mean they are because I did it Charlene Yee is they were born I mean they're like 15 years younger than well they address that in the movie they're like oh it's just me and I forget the other guy's name but it's like those were the original members and then they're like and then we added new people later So also like I again I've seen this movie a handful of times at this point never knew that the parents had a store Never only because it's in one quick almost throwaway line where they leave a message on the answering machine For young Sasha and they're like, sorry, we won't be home. We're stuck at the store, make yourself dinner. So like that's the only time we have any indication

of what they do. But yeah, that also could have been like, why don't we see them at the store or something. Anyway, so where were we? This is shortly after Sasha and Brandon have broken off their engagement. This is shortly after Sasha and Brandon have broken off their engagement. And oh yeah, and then like Sasha's like, Marcus, you should try to be a famous musician.

And he's like, no thanks, that's not really why I'm doing this. And then that night, while Sasha is catering a rap party for a Netflix show, she meets someone and we don't know who it is at first. And we're like, oh, who could it be? And we'll find out soon that it's Keanu Reeves. I remember this was like,

this was like a very like break the internet kind of moment when it happened at Tw- That was the only thing I knew about this movie was that there is an extended Keanu Reeves cameo in it. Yeah. Yes, where he plays himself, which I don't mind. I had a good time. I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed it. I'm a hater. I mean, I love Keanu. I just I'm burned out on like a celebrity being like, celebrities are weird. It's like, well, I think I liked it because he just seemed so excited because he was like, and I never get to play, you know, and I'm like half Asian or something. There was like some interview he did where he like made it deeply philosophical.

And I was like, I love that for you, Ken. Like if you're happy, I'm happy. And the only thing that I really like about it is the extended bit when he goes to visit Ali Wong at a stand-up show or whatever. She'll be like, oh, my ex-boyfriend came to see me. And that's the bit that I like. It's this extended, year-long thing that they're like, oh. It's beautiful. We used to date.

I mean, Ali Wong is the coolest. I also love, I feel like she and Bill Hader, what a powerful couple they are too. I was like that, it just makes sense. I love it. It does. They seem so happy. They do.

I had no idea they were together. Isn't that a good match though? You're just like, oh yeah. It's such a good match. Oh, okay. So then, Sasha has just met some mystery guy. Meanwhile, Marcus's dad is like, I don't know about your girlfriend Jenny, you should be with Sasha and tell her how you feel. And Marcus is like, hmm, sounds like a good

idea. So he goes to her and he's about to tell her but before he can Sasha is like I met someone let's all go on a double date and then it turns out to be Keanu Reeves is her new lover playing himself and Jenny is starstruck Marcus is like, oh my fucking god Like how am I supposed to compete with Keanu Reeves? Marcus also thinks that he's like a pretentious douchebag because he's playing a very goofy version of himself. And then everyone goes to Keanu's hotel for a nightcap and they play a game where they ask each other questions and Sasha reveals that she has always had a crush on Marcus, or at least during their childhood.

He's like, what, really? I had no idea. And then she's like, but not anymore. Not for nothing. I found that line confusing that he was like, you liked me? I was like, you guys did have sex. Like, it's not that. I mean, I guess the whole life thing.

But I was like, you fucked. You can't be completely shocked that she was attracted to you Yeah, and then things escalate from there and this game culminates in Marcus and Keanu getting into a fistfight and So Marcus and Sasha leave together Jenny stays with Keanu because they're like kind of vibing I guess and then in the car ride home Sasha and Marcus get into another fight where stays with Keanu because they're like kind of vibing I guess. And then in the car ride home, Sasha and Marcus get into another fight where Marcus accuses Sasha of you know like filling her life with meaningless awards and relationships and Sasha accuses him of wasting his talent and potential and then he surprise kisses her this time, but she's like

Let's keep smooching and then they go to her place and have sex the sex scene is great Yeah, no, no, no complaints. No complaints. It's a good scene Savannah. Let's keep it. Let's keep that scene in there And then after this Sasha and Marcus start dating. And it's nice for a little while, but then Sasha has to go to New York to open her restaurant there. Marcus is apprehensive about going with her. And then after this red carpet event,

they get in another fight where he's like, I think the food you make is pretentious and it caters to rich white people. And she's like, oh yeah, well, I need you to be more supportive of my capitalistic ambitions. Well, I mean, it's fair to ask for support of her ambitions. I don't think that that is unreasonable. I think what is unreasonable is at the end of the movie,

she is still making food basically for rich white people, but now she's making his dead mom's recipes for rich white people. And I'm like, it's worse question mark. Meanwhile, I'm like, girl, get your belt. I was like, I'm not upset that she's like successful. I don't know, that's fine. I have a whole piece that I'll be quoting from later.

That's all about how Sasha's character is complicit in gentrification and all this stuff. I'll, we'll get to that. But anyway, so now it's the night of the opening of Sasha's San Francisco restaurant. Marcus doesn't go with her and he says he doesn doesn't wanna go to New York with her either, so they basically break up. And they're both very sad, and Sasha goes to New York alone. And he starts to harass her.

Yeah. But then he tries to start to get his life together. First, there's like an audition with his band that he absolutely blows because he gets drunk and like pisses on the stage But then they redo the audition and this time they nail it and then he moves into his own apartment and he Takes over the merch sales for his band and they start selling a bunch of merch except no, they don't and this is never like, I'm like, that never to me should be a source of conflict of like, oh, you think so little of my potential as an artist that you were buying

all of the merch? Like, how would that not be a hit to his confidence? See, that's not even like see, we Yeah, I would be like, Oh, you bought all my Thank you. I love you bad. Because if somebody was like, Oh, I want to see Kia succeed and they bought all my books baby I'm not gonna be upset I'm gonna be like thank you I love you let's like you know fair love yeah you know go do it or whatever like yeah anyway the movie's almost over so now he goes to Sasha's San Francisco restaurant, because he's like, maybe she's there and maybe I can talk to her, but she's not.

She's in New York, famously. Like she said. Right, but he goes into her office and this is when he sees that she had bought all of his merch. And so he's like, wait a minute, does she love me? So then he buys a suit and he goes to New York to surprise Sasha at an awards ceremony. And he makes a big speech about how he wants to be with her no matter what.

And they kiss and make up. And then she takes him to her New York City restaurant. And then twist, it's the restaurant where she has plagiarized his mom's recipes and... You guys she got her blessing from beyond. I don't know how. At this point I'm like if I'm Randall Park I'm never speaking to this woman again and I'm suing her.

But instead he's like wow that's awesome. She's like I stole your mom's recipes and I'm going to do it in my little gentrification bistro. And then goes to her, like the widower and is like, she'd love this, right? After the business is open. Yeah, that would've been nice if it was just like not open and that's what she was planning to do. That would have worked a little bit better,

I think. But I also saw in the beginning how her mom was very supportive of her cooking and she's like, oh, here's how you do it. So in a way it felt like she was sharing in this moment with, I'm just making excuses, but she was sharing in this moment with his mom. And it was like, you know. I mean, I knew what they were going for. I just like, it just felt so, I mean, I think that this was one of the many elements of like the last 15 to 20 minutes of the movie

that just felt really, really, really rushed. Yeah. Well, any case, that's the end of the movie basically. Like Marcus loves the restaurant, the opening goes well, everyone has a nice time. The end. So let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss further. Have you ever wished for a change but weren't sure how to make it? Maybe you felt stuck in a job or a place or a relationship?

Join me, Emily Tish-Sussman, over on She Pivots, where I explore the inspiring pivots of women, dig deeper into the personal reasons behind them, and leave you with the inspiration you need to make your next pivot. In honor of Mother's Day, we have some very special guests. I'm Elaine Welteroth. And I'm Caitlin Murray. Both women pivoted out of their careers after having their kids,

proving that motherhood is just another chapter in our journey, not the end. It's like, it's kind of like, will you have more babies? Yes. Will I always be me? Yeah. And will I continue growing? Yes.

Because I was really in the trenches and I knew my worth and my value as a mom. Come on over to hear their full stories. You can listen to She Pivots on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. I know that we have a lot to get to. One of the things I just wanted to sort of go back to the original round of press around this movie when it came out, because something that I also knew about this movie that is absolutely worth talking about is that it is one of the few mainstream rom-coms that has Asian American characters at its center and is also written by literally the stars of the movie but Asian American writers.

I believe the director Nanachka Khan who also is like a prolific sitcom director, is Iranian American, and there is a lot of diversity in front of and behind the camera, which in rom-coms is still extremely, extremely rare. I mean, we were just talking about Anyone But You, which is, my understanding is a blindingly white movie. And there was a lot written at the time this movie came out celebrating that, I think, rightfully. So there is a Vox essay that I bravely read by writer Jason Shen that sort of breaks down

a lot of what he felt the Asian American stereotypes being challenged very subtly in this movie. The piece is called, Why Always Be My Maybe's Asian American Underachiever is groundbreaking and specifically goes into Randall Park's character and talking about how, you know, the representation of an Asian American character who is not fighting

against but not meeting the like very model minority stereotypes that we often see Asian American characters written into. We can link it in the description, but I just wanted to share sort of his thesis here. He writes it might sound strange But an Asian American lead character playing a low achiever might be just what our community needs right now the story of Asians in America is a happy one at first glance as the nation's fastest growing racial group were seen as an Educated quote unquote model minority citizens who have earned society's respect but Asian American achievement often faces backlash and earn society's respect. But Asian American achievement often faces backlash. And we've discussed these trips on the show before, but I think that it definitely is a positive thing

to just have, again, a simple thing that we never see in movies, characters that exist that we never see. So I think that that is great. I don't totally agree that Randall Park's character having a blue collar job is passively accepted by the movie. I think that's sort of where I chaffed with that a little bit. But I do think, you know, from a representation standpoint, it's wonderful. Yeah, for sure. A lot of movies treat Asian characters and Asian American characters as a monolith and adhere to so many reductive tropes and I agree that this movie subverts a lot of them. I wanted to share a

quote from Ali Wong from an interview that she and Randall Park did in Glamour where she says, quote, to me, Marcus's character is very much a type of guy that I grew up with, a very Asian American dude who grew up in the bay and lives at home well into his 30s because of gentrification and rent is so expensive in San Francisco. They have this artistic passion, and they're not that ambitious because they're third generation. Their parents don't have that crazy immigrant mentality. That's something I have never seen on camera before, but that's something I very much grew up with. These guys were so sexy and confident, but they're good, you know? And his dad is his friend.

And you haven't seen that kind of Asian dad before. My dad was born in the United States. He didn't have any accent. He was very progressive. And he journaled. He's really into self-reflection. I know a lot of dads like that. And I have always felt like it's a shame that they weren't on camera. This is not the Asian American romcom. This is an Asian American romcom. That's an Asian American dad. That's an Asian American rom-com. That's an Asian American dad. That's an Asian American guy. I haven't seen before, parentheses on screen. And that's very exciting to me, unquote.

So that's from Ali Wong. Randall Park had similar comments about seeing a lack of Asian American characters in certain roles in media. I'm gonna paraphrase from an interview with him in Associated Press where he says that he always wanted to play the romantic lead in a movie but those parts weren't available to him in Hollywood. So he was like, well in that case I have to write my own story where I can be the

romantic lead since the industry isn't affording me those opportunities. And then Ali Wong also says that it was very important to her that all of her characters' love interests be Asian American and that in all of her work it's important that she shows her attraction and desire toward Asian American men, which all of that speaks to Hollywood's tendency to de-sexualize Asian men and the refusal to present Asian men as romantically viable people.

And so all of this to say, obviously, Ali Wong and Randall Park were very mindful of the stereotypical representation of Asian American characters that existed on screen previously. And with this movie, they wanted to show more nuance and diversity in the type of Asian American characters who appear on screen. Yeah, I think what's really nice as like, the person of color, like the black version right now on the pot is like,

I went into a being like, I forgot how nice it was not to have something centered around whiteness, like, yeah, there was the conversation around, like, you know, you're catering your restaurant to rich white people. But it was like, not to be inundated with whiteness as a default was really, really nice. Because it's been such a long time, which again, what is time with the pandemic, but it's been such a long time since I've seen that happen in a rom-com, since. For sure.

That's right, yeah, I feel like we will probably, unfortunately, keep talking about this on the show of like feeling like around this time in the late 2010s where there was starting to be more representation in genres where we didn't normally See it we were getting better written characters who weren't meant like Cisman weren't the default and then in the last couple of years it feels like I mean amongst many other things that that progress is sliding backwards and experiencing significant backlash and yeah I mean for all the gripes I have about this movie it's I can't think of many you know movies that have made at this budget

with this amount of marketing as well that center Asian American characters. Well, that's the thing, because I just saw two movies that are, at the time of this recording, I think still in theaters, but hard to find because they don't have huge releases, but I saw The Wedding Banquet and- Oh, yes.

It's a nice Indian boy, which are two queer, romantic comedies slash dramedies that feature predominantly Asian American characters. But they don't have the same marketing around them. So I feel like a lot of people don't know about them or as much about them. Yeah, they're on my list. I'm trying to figure out how I can see them both because I've heard good things. They're both really good. Right, but they're hard to like, I also saw the wedding

banquet and it's already like halved in terms of the numbers of screenings that it's getting. And I haven't seen any marketing for it. Like I just knew I would see anything Bo and Yang is in. So the ads found me. But yeah, I mean, overall, like I saw a lot of writing about this movie to the effect of how refreshing it was for so many viewers, particularly Asian American audiences where they were able to see a pretty standard rom-com story because the idea for this movie was Allie Wong and Randall Park being like

hey we should make our own version of when Harry met Sally right and the movie follows a lot of the same beats as that movie so it's a pretty you know standard rom-com narrative but it features characters who look like them and who had similar upbringings and who had similar cultural experiences and who were also living regular lives because this movie because it came out a year after Crazy Rich Asians a lot of people who wrote about this movie were like crazy crazy rich Asians was fun and everything, but I couldn't really relate to those characters

because they're literal billionaires, but Always Be My Maybe had like familiar people in it. And also a lot of people had written about how there was in Always Be My Maybe, no real focus on their like, quote unquote otherness and that there was like no real clash of eastern versus western values. Not that those things aren't worth exploring in media but this movie is more like hey look at these regular American people who are living, laughing, loving and they just happen to be Asian so

That was like very refreshing for a lot of people. I'll share a quote from a New Yorker piece written by Jiayang Fan entitled what always be my maybe understands about making an Asian American rom-com Quote I watched always be my Maybe alone in a theater in Manhattan, acutely aware that this was a mainstream movie of America's favorite variety, the rom-com, and of the fact that a multi-ethnic audience had sat down to watch two Asian leads fall in love. More than anything else, it was the film's depiction of growing up in the US

in an Asian home that made my heart yelp. The... Oh, oh no, a word that I don't know how to say. Involuble? Yeah, nailed it. Oh, thank you so much. A ritual of removing shoes before entering a house, the plastic covered furniture in Sasha's parents' home, which so resembled my own childhood living room. To watch these mundane, culturally specific details exposed on the big screen, the very things that I and many Asian-American kids once wanted to hide, felt quietly radical. And then the piece goes on to talk about various other culturally specific things that the movie includes that felt very familiar and authentic to the writer, such as like having to consume media about white people like Clarissa explains it all and Wayne's world because that's all there was when they were growing up or parents trying to avoid any service that requires tipping because they were poor and had to be very careful with their money.

So I also think it's funny to like, as a disabled person, the joke, I remember when I first watched the movie, the joke about the parking placards really pissed me off. But then I watched it today and I was like, Oh, that's really funny. Like, I think part of it is just like one I chilled out because like, for a while there, I was just like, yeah. And then, you know, I like relaxed a little bit, but it was actually funny. This go around. You mean the scene where they notice how when they're in Chinatown and every car has the parking park. Yeah, that scene I was like, Oh, this is actually funny. And I don't know, I think I think to it

really shows the passing of time for me. I mean, this has nothing to do with the movie. But when I first saw it, I think I wrote an article about it about how like, or a tweet or something when Twitter was good about how that singular section upset me. And I noticed today that I was like, fully laughing at it. And I'm just saying that as like a person who has never fully seen herself represented in rom-coms or otherwise. And like jokes like that. That's a good one because it's not like crapping on disabled people to do it. It's just like, what are all these placards? Yeah. And then, and then Sasha is like, yeah, they have these placards, but look at him getting out of his truck all able bodied, which could mean that he just has an invisible disability,

you know? Yeah. So I think it does a good job at either both like poking at her and the idea that she has no idea how disability actually works. And also the idea that like, people are just so convinced that disabled people of all kinds are gaming the system I remember once this lady like knocked on the car door and I put my hand out like my right hand out So she could see I'm like hello. What are you gonna do? Like I'm supposed to have this. Why are you trying? Just wanted to let you know that the police are out here. Okay.

Thanks. Cool. It's fun. I mean, for me, my big criticism around this movie, and I've already alluded to this is the way that the movie handles class and. Which in some ways I also noticed that. And I was like, in some ways I feel like that is, it is truly just like they made a rom-com that centers Asian American characters

in a way that I think was very impactful, but they still made an American rom-com where it is like insensitive to class and like very bootstrap aspirational in all the ways that American rom-coms tend to be. Yeah. Right. Yeah, like I almost, I mean, not to invalidate what you're saying, obviously, Caitlin,

but I almost feel like that's the beauty in it because when you approach any genre as a person of color, people do expect you to have like the set decisions and set thoughts on all of the things that other romcoms tend to ignore. So there's some power in the fact that they didn't address it in that way because it was like, okay, we don't have to in the same way that they don't in, you know, when Harry went sailing. Totally. Right. Like setting the bar high, like higher for marginalized creators kind of thing.

Yeah, I mean, I see what you're saying because I mean, so much of art that creators of color make is held to a very rigid standard. And if there's too much subversion, then people will be all up in arms and oh, this isn't a rom-com because it's X, Y, Z. I just, I mean, and also this came out in 2019 when culturally we were less critical of capitalism. I think in the past five years, there's been a pretty significant shift.

I mean, yeah, the pandemic got a lot of people radicalized. For sure. So I'm not surprised that this movie isn't very critical of capitalism, but I still think it's worth pointing out where it manifests in a couple of different ways. One of them is part of the dynamic of their relationship is that by

capitalist society's standards, Sasha is more quote-unquote successful because she's a business owner and she has more money and more ambition and then by those same standards, Marcus is quote-unquote not successful because he lives with his dad and he has a blue-collar job and uh he he doesn't have these huge career ambitions and he still drives the same car from when he was a teenager and he's you know content to play in this band at this small club and never make any money from the band and all this kind of stuff. And they constantly argue about these differences, which to your point, Jamie is that they are just not compatible. But the movie, it frames Marcus's situation as something that needs to be fixed, more or less, where he has the arc where he, you know, he moves out of the dad's place

and he gets the audition at the bigger club and he starts making money, which is actually just Sasha buying his merch, but it's not until then that they end up together and happy. But he's quote unquote viable, which again, I feel like for me the fix here, because I hear what you're both saying, and I feel like the fix here is the writing gets caught up

in this like capitalistic idea of what happiness looks like when this conversation I feel like would be more effective and would make me feel less kind of icky about the relationship if it was about passion versus success. And I think Kia, you mentioned earlier, if we saw that Randall Park loves being in this band, it is his passion, it is his source of joy.

And Allie Wong's character loves being a chef and building these restaurants. But the conflict is she is making a lot of money doing it. He isn't, but they have passion. But it feels like it gets instead sort of involved in like a very capitalistic, rigid definition of success. And also too, it just seems like the thing with with Sasha is like, does she love it or is it just the career she's good at? Right. Not clear. That's the question that I had too, because I was just like, but do you love your job? Because you don't seem that happy doing it. Right. She's like, I'm doing it because I have to and you're in it's also but it's like,

right? Why do you have to let's keep it, why do you have to? Let's keep it, yeah, you just wanna like push the script a little further and I mean, and Caitlin, you're totally right, the gentrification aspect, like in some ways it's like, yeah, this is what Meg Ryan would do in a, I mean, at least at very least, this is not the most egregious gentrification

realm complot point that will always go to you've got mail. But, but, but yeah, it just, it, especially if the movie made in 2019, it felt again, I'm wondering if there were drafts of the script that dealt with this or that developed this a little more thoughtfully because it just felt so fast at the end. Even I think too, then this is going to be, I don't know, but like remember the white girl that she was like the assistant of and she was so scared she was going to get fired

the whole time. Even if she was like, you know what, I'm gonna relinquish dealing with this one here, I'll give Michelle butoads the other one, and I'm gonna put my focus on this one restaurant. Even that I feel like would have helped with the like, less feeling with monopoly pieces, you know, because after a while, it was like, Oh, yeah, I got one in New York. I got a she's franchising. Like, yeah, she's franchising. It was like, girl, I get it. But at the same time, you can't demean Marcus for not having direction when your direction is just you want to constant movement without being able to rest. There's something to talk to your therapist about people like, why do you need to be in constant movement? Sit down somewhere, take a nap. Take a break.

As the kids say, touch some grass, Ali Wong. Yeah, and I mean, it's the criticism of the gentrification aspects of the restaurant come up really fast and only at the end. And the only resolution given for it is, oh, I'll just steal your dead mom's recipes. Does that work? And it weirdly, and he's like, oh yeah,

that solves gentrification. It's like as long as we can stop the whole fusion, just make them as they are. And that's that. And it's just like, I don't think we knew enough of their interior thoughts in a lot of places that we needed them. For sure.

Sure, cause we don't know, I mean, like is, again, yeah, where it's just like, it seems like there's a sort of void of passion between these two characters in their pursuits, where I'm like, is Ali Wong really passionate about the food her restaurants serve? We don't really know. We don't really ever see her cooking.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have alluded to this piece a couple times already, but I just wanna share a few quotes from a piece in Plan A magazine by writer Promise Lee entitled, Always Be My Maybe, Gentrification,

and the Asian American Romcom. The piece starts by commenting on the criticisms of Crazy Rich Asians when that movie came out, how it only portrayed very affluent Asian characters. Really just the richest people humanly possible. Truly. It goes on to make a similar point that we were making earlier regarding the Sasha characters

kind of like constantly berating Marcus for his lifestyle. And the movie, like the events and logic of the movie siding with her on that is I feel like it's never like she has, because it's one thing if she has a realization of like I've been so judgmental based on class or like I think there's such a thing as like projecting at the class you grew up in or whatever it may be, but there is no such realization.

It's just like, it seems like those are the values of the movie. Right. Yeah. And then the piece goes on to examine her work as a like restaurateur and the types of restaurants that she's opening. And so the piece says, quote, "'Of course, the film's concluding scene demonstrates

that its ideal of innovation does not equate to a rejection of all tradition. Tradition for Sasha must be done well. It needs to sell. Sasha's final invention in the film is a Korean restaurant more quote unquote authentic than her previous eateries as it is based on Marcus's late mother Judy's old recipes. But despite the film's occasionally positive portrayal of local authentic restaurants, its end goal is clear. The ideal isn't the local

Cantonese dim sum joint with rude service that Marcus and Sasha grew up frequenting. It is Judy's way, the gentrifying hip Korean eatery that reworks old family recipes for a different demographic. For all the talk of Sasha's turn to authenticity, the film shows no ambiguity as to who the target audience is for Judy's way. In its final shot of the restaurant's long line of white professionals in high heels and pinstriped blazers, the piece goes on to say, gentrification has been widely portrayed in rigidly racialized terms, with working-class residents of color being forced out of their neighborhoods by affluent or middle-class white developers and residents. But Always Be My Maybe shows us a crucial element frequently understated or overlooked in the relentless calculus of

gentrification, the act of complicity of more affluent people of color in displacing their less privileged counterparts. Entrepreneurs like Sasha churn out restaurant after restaurant that no one needs in the community, but that threatens the livelihood of workers of color that depend on the sustenance of local businesses." Unquote. So yeah, I just wanted to share that.

I thought that was a really great piece. And the thing that is frustrating about this is, I think that you can maintain the tone of this movie and still address it. And it's sort of hint, because the elements of gentrification are hinted at in passing with jokes, you can tackle a topic as

serious and insidious as gentrification in a rom-com. And I think that these writers are well qualified to do it, which kind of makes it a little more bizarre that it goes in so hard on the capitalism angle. Right, so disappointing, but. But again, I mean, as Kio was saying too, it is one of the ways in which this movie kind of for worse adheres to the values of the American rom-com because American rom-coms are nothing if very pro-capitalist.

Absolutely. One of the things that is subverted, switching gears here, but that I wanted to comment on is glasses representation. Oh, I thought that too. I mean, that's Ali Wong in general. She's been on that beat for many years. And some of the best glasses in the game.

Such good glasses, yeah. Friend of the show, Kinesh Mobley, often cites this movie when talking about representation of characters wearing glasses and then I would go on to realize that there's like, there are whole Reddit threads about her glasses in this movie but basically the idea is this is one of the only movies where a

woman or I guess person of any gender but specifically a woman in this case in a romantic lead who wears glasses in general and keeps them on the whole movie and doesn't take them off as some she's all that style makeover. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I think about that a lot because I, I could say it is sort of drilled into you culturally because I wear glass, my vision's horrible, I wear glasses, but usually not to occasions.

And that is a very culturally bashed in thing. I do wonder to some extent if that movie, because there is the she's all that element of I feel like just the lazy 20th century person wearing glasses, dork thing. Nerd alert. But also having worked in production, I do sort of wonder if it's just a glare issue sometimes.

Like it is hard to film people in glasses. But the glasses are such a huge part of who Ali Wong is. And you know, certainly no one could accuse Ali Wong of being anything but very hot and like treated as such Yeah, that that is a good I hadn't even thought of that. I just was admiring her frames. She has great taste in frames She really does. Yeah the movie Does pass the Bechdel test? Yeah a bunch between Sasha and

Veronica and her mom and Marcus's mom. So yeah, there's many interactions. I will say we didn't have a lot of time to talk about Michelle Butoh's character. Not that there's a ton to talk about, but I did think, again, where this is like, this is firmly an American rom-com where Michelle Butoh is best friending

the hell out of this role. We don't know anything. We do find out that she has a partner, but her whole thing is she's pregnant and she really cares about Ali Wong's character's interior life. It's very rom-com. Also, I noticed this time for the first time

that she knew them when they were kids. Yes. I never noticed that she was supposed to be the other little girl at the table. Yeah, I also noticed that on my most recent watch. Yeah, I was like, oh, I never caught them. Because they don't talk to her or address her by name or anything like that. So yeah, and I was just like, it really reiterated my desire. I know that she has survival is the thickest, but it really reiterated my desire to see

her in like a firmly rom-com movie that's full of all of the tropes. I haven't seen it, but she was in Babes last year, right? Yeah, Babes. Was it bad? I haven't seen it. Oh no. I didn't love it, and she plays the same best friend character. It's not, it doesn't center her narrative quite as much.

And so like, I just want to see her like in that way, even though I know she has her own other thing. I'm like, give the girl an original Netflix movie. She's so funny. She carries a lot of these as the best friend of a lot of these roles. Yeah, I feel like she has replaced like the Judy Greer best friend rom-com. She is kind of millennial Judy Greer. And much like Judy Greer, we must free her.

She has so much talent. She does. As far as our nipple scale goes, where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. There's a lot to love and appreciate about this movie as far as representation goes of centering Asian American characters written by Asian American writers who are pulling from their own experiences,

pulling from people they know, broadening the scope of the type of Asian American person you tend to see represented on screen, letting these characters be the romantic leads in a rom-com who are falling in love and arguing all the time. But you still get like all the rom-com itches scratched where there's, I thought that Ali Wong's wardrobe in this movie is fucking spectacular. It has the visuals of a rom-com, it has the fashion, it has the random big parties, it has,

it is like an actual real world representation in a neat way and also has a very familiar rom-com plot. For sure, and it's one of the few rom-coms that actually attempts jokes. I don't necessarily think all of them land that well, but like, I was laughing many times. There's calm, there's calm. There's calm in the romcom.

And so many romcoms don't actually have calm, which has always bugged me. But yeah, there's, there's jokes in this and I appreciate that. And also it has the thing that I love the most in all coms of the rom is the big embarrassing moment. So like when she gets caught letting Daniel Dickens character have it in the windows open and they can all hear her. Like that's one of the cornerstones of all the romcoms. Yes, you do need that moment where everyone's like,

um, pretty lady doing what? Swearing in front of children and ghosts? In front of the children at the party? You're scaring the goats. I did laugh out loud. That was great, that was funny. But yeah, and again, the thing about it not interrogating capitalism at all and kind of just being like, yeah, the only way that they that it makes sense for them to end up together is if the Marcus character sort of embraces capitalism.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, when you put it that way. Yeah. I think I'll give the movie like 3.75 for somewhere around there, Nipples, and I will give them to the goats at the party. I'm gonna go, I guess I'm gonna go three. I think I'm gonna go, I guess I'm gonna go three? I think I'm gonna go three. I mean, for all the reasons you just described, Caitlin,

I was so nervous to come into that. Thank you for being receptive to be really not rooting for this couple. But I do agree. I mean, I obviously, I mean, I'm not Asian American. I have, I see myself in rom-coms all the time. There's nothing if not many white women with brown hair in rom-coms.

And so I can't speak to the experience of feeling represented in this genre. And it was really cool reading through a lot of the specifics of, and also just how Ali Wong and Randall Park really intentionally collaborated on that. I don't think it's a coincidence that Ninachka Khan had worked extensively with both of them on Fresh Off the Boat, which is a show

that has a very similar goal. And so I think like representationally, this movie is wonderful and takes a lot of great steps forward. I do feel like it's guilty of Girlboss feminism, which was so many things in 2019. So it's not a like, this movie is, I think every so many attempts at feminism in 2019

had this Sheryl Sandberg vibe to it. But ultimately, I'm docking it for this couple does not belong together. I found the relationship very stressful, which is me fully projecting as a woman that once moved to Maine to try to make it work. So yeah, these fictional people should learn from my mistakes and break up.

I think more people should break up. I love breaking up. Yes, normalize breaking up. Yeah. Hashtag multiple breakup tag multiple break up, please? Kia, how about you? I'm gonna also go 3.85. Ooh. I know. Love a decimal. Groundbreaking. Groundbreaking, Kia. Yes, I think so because I just like it and I know that they have other issues

But I really hope they make it and also one of the nipples I'm gonna give to the dad because I just think he's I did appreciate their little friendship that they were like Genuinely close and he didn't do that. They were he pulled away after the mom died Yeah, cuz I hate that show even more than I hate the dead mom joke I love his dance too. Right. And so I'm going to give another nipple to Michelle Butoh because duh. And then my last nipple is going to be to the very quick scene where Ali Wong, Sasha

flashes herself. So then she flashes. Oh yeah, that was really sweet. So then he said that he could see her bra. I just think it's so funny. And I like cackled out loud. I just love it and I would love for them to work together again. And like, again, Randall Park, it just like that sexy just shifted so much for me

in terms of how I viewed him. So when I see him now I'm like, hey big head. Awuga. Nice. Well, Kia, thank you so much for joining us. Once again, come back anytime. You're always welcome back. Please. I love it here. What would you like to plug?

Tell us where people can follow you and find your work. Okay. You can follow me on Instagram at Kia, K-E-A-H, underscore Maria, M-A-R-I-A. I'm also on blue sky at Kia Brown at blue sky. I don't know you say it. And if you're like on Facebook, I don't know who is anymore, but I, I do still have a Facebook page and it's the Kia Brown. I'm currently writing what I hope will be my fourth book, another essay collection, but you can always and please do purchase any of the three books that I have out right now. And if you want to be

the Ellie Wong to my Marcus, please buy all of the books and just keep buying them. That's what you buy so many copies of Kia's books to show her that you love her. Exactly. My mom has a copy of Sam's Super Seats in her classroom. Oh my gosh, that makes me so happy. Yes. I mean, I'm a fan of all of your work, but if you have a teacher in your life, get a copy of Sam's Super Seats for their classroom.

Yes. It's a great book. I'm biased, but it's right. It's true. It's true.ats for their classroom. Yes, it's a great book, unbiased, but it's right. It's true, it's true. You're not wrong. Well, you can follow us at the place called Instagram, if you must. Please do, it's the only place we are, so.

It is. If not there, you're gonna have a hard time keeping up, so head over there. You can also join us on our Patreon, AKA Matrion. Please do that too. Where for $5 a month, you can get access to two new episodes with Caitlin and myself doing a theme of sometimes your choosing, sometimes ours.

It's a very sort of like goofy, looser version of our format and you don't only get access to those two new episodes a month you can access to a back catalog of nearly 200 episodes so if you're running out of episodes on the main feed guess what there is an affordable way to have that not be true anymore and there's a really fun community over there and we love you, so thanks for listening and you listeners will always be our babies. Babies.

Babies. I love you babies. Bye. Bye bye, goo goo gaga. The Bechtel cast is a production of I Heart Media hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrosensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus

and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree. Bechtelcast. Hi, it's Emily Tisch-Sussman, host of the podcast, She Pivots. In honor of Mother's Day, we have some very special guests. I'm Elaine Welteroth. And I'm Caitlin Murray. Both women pivoted out of their careers after having their kids, proving that motherhood is just another chapter in our journey, not the end. Come on over to hear their full stories. You can listen to She Pivots on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.