The Bechdel Cast - Angus, Thongs, and Perfect Snogging with Kate Cheka

Episode Date: January 10, 2025

On this episode, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Kate Cheka dicuss kissing and cats and Angus, Thongs, and Perfect Snogging (2008)! Follow Kate on Instagram at @katecheka, visit her website at katecheka.co.uk for tickets to upcoming tour dates, and grab tickets to her London shows at https://sohotheatre.com/events/kate-cheka-a-messiah-comes/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. So I hosted the Golden Globes at Hollywood's biggest party. Honestly, you've probably seen all the headlines this week, but like any good party, there's a lot of wild stuff that goes down behind the scenes that you don't know about. And since I hosted the Golden Globes, I'm letting my podcast listeners, my besties, in on all the behind the scenes tea. Stuff that didn't make it to the live TV taping, what went down in rehearsals, who said what at the after party.

You're going to hear it all. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And this January, we're going to go on the road to beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada to cover the consumer electronics show, Tech's biggest conference. Better Offline's CES coverage won't be the usual rundown of the hottest gadgets or biggest trends, but an unvarnished look at what the tech industry plans to sell or do to you in 2025. I'll be joined by David Roth at Defecta and the writer Edward Ongweiso Jr. with guest appearances from Behind the Bastards' Robert Evans, It Could Happen Here's Gare Davis,

and a few surprise guests throughout the show. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts from. Do you want a shortcut to the best version of you? Here it is. Feed the Good Wolf. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed. Every week I talk to brilliant minds and brave souls about the art of small, powerful choices. Our listeners say it all.

This is a lifeline. Transformational. The best antidote to a bad mood I've ever heard. Join the pack and start feeding your best self. Listen to The One You Feed on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joel, the holidays are a blast, but the financial hangover, that can be a huge bummer. If you are out there and you're dreading the new statement email that reveals the massive balance

that you may have racked up, well, you could use our help. That's right. I'm Joel. And I am Matt. And we're from the How to Money Podcast. Our show is all about helping you make sense of your personal finances so you can ditch your pesky credit card debt once and for all, make real progress on other crucial financial goals that you've got, and just feel more in control of your money in general. You know it. For money advice without the judgment and jargon, listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all, I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls. This January, join me for our third annual January Jumpstart series. Starting January 1st, we'll have inspiring

conversations to give you a hand in kickstarting your personal growth. If you've been holding back or playing small, this is your all-access pass to step fully into the possibilities of the new year. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls starting on January 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. podcast. Hello listeners, just a reminder about our upcoming shows starting in a couple weeks. First a show in Los Angeles on January 19th. This is a Bechtelcast celebration. It's a variety show with special guests and lots of hilarious bits just celebrating

us doing the show for a whopping eight years. This show is also being live streamed. And even if you cannot watch it as it's happening live if you buy a live stream ticket You'll have access to the video for one week after so no excuse not to see it The next show is in San Francisco as a part of SF sketch fest on January 23rd This is a part of our famed Shrek Tannic show and this one is specifically on Titanic if it sells out I will get naked on stage so that Jamie can draw me like one of her French girls. So you know come

see that plus lots of other fun bits you know Titanic related stuff that you've never seen before that you've never heard us talk about before it's all brand new stuff. And then finally our show in Portland at Curious Comedy Theatre on January 26. Also Shrek Tanik and this show is on Shrek. So in-person tickets for this are close to selling out. There's still a few left, but you know, get them now while you still can. But this show is also being live streamed so you can watch from anywhere in the world. and same deal as the other live stream show you can watch for one week after if you buy a live stream ticket. So those are the shows.

They will all have meet and greets with myself and Jamie afterward. We sell exclusive merch. All the tickets can be found at link tree slash Bechdel cast. So we'll see you there and enjoy this episode. The Bechdel cast. Dear diary slash dear Jamie. Hi, Caitlin. It's me. Your diary. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, I love my cat Angus and I love boys. And that sounds probably like that's it for you. Yeah, pretty much. I would not wanna hear about you having any sort of hobby

or interest, that would suck. Oh, thank God, okay, well. I mean, Kat is a hobby. Angus is a hobby. Angus seems like a full-time job. He's a fully developed character as far as I'm concerned. He's a piece of work. He's a real piece of work.

He's the protagonist. Yeah, I mean,. He's a piece of work. He's a real piece of work. He's the protagonist. Yeah, I mean, yeah, the titular. Yeah, I don't know what cat actor they had on this, but what a star. Whoa, he was taking direction. I don't think that I mean, I'm sure that there was like a fake cat in there at some point. But it seemed like he was really owning the space. Yeah. I thought. Every thing I saw on screen that resembled a cat seemed like a real cat. It was that cat.

And it's like, you know, we've talked about animal acting on the show before and like, what are the ethics of it? And then occasionally there's a born star and you're just like, I'm not going to tell that guy to get off stage. He clearly belongs there. A star is born and it's not Lady Gaga. It is Angus the cat RIP to him. Maybe it's kind of an old movie. Oh Sad but true. Yes. Welcome. My name is Caitlin Durante

My name is Jamie Loftus and this is our podcast where we talk about your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechtel test as a jumping-off point for Discussion but Caitlin, what the hell is that? We didn't I think the whole beginning of it for example didn't pass because we were talking about a male cat Well cats don't have gender. So I think talking about a cat is not talking about a man. A human man. I think that I do think that Angus has a very masculine energy. Well, he's intense, but he's also so freaking chill. Did you see the scene where the little sister's putting spaghetti on his head? And that was the real cat. I was like, how is this real cat like spaghetti trained?

Like what the hell? And yeah, he does, like ET, also very gender fluid with the dress. Yes. Wears all sorts of outfits. Okay, okay, point taken. And Georgia, the main character is always like, stop dressing Angus in drag.

Well, Georgia has a lot of issues with gender that we'll get to. Tell me about it. Georgia has to answer for her crimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, leave Angus out of it. Yeah, so that did pass the Bechdel test. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And when you say that, what do you mean? Oh, it's just a media metric created by queer cartoonist, Alison Bechdel. There are many versions of the test. The one that we use is, do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is it about something other than a man

for two lines of dialogue or a like substantial meaty conversation? So that's the Bechdel test. We will, I'm not really sure about this one. We'll get there, but. Yeah, I think it's a soft yes, but not as much as you'd want. Yes. All things considered. Also, I think it's a soft yes, but not as much as you'd want.

All things considered. Also, I wanna point out listeners that we are recording in person for the first time in ages. It's weird. Because we have a guest visiting us all the way from the UK, ever heard of it? Just turn and stare at her. And we're all like breathing the same air right now.

And so let's bring her in. She's a comedian. You may have seen her at our live Shrek Tanik show in Manchester, UK. Ever heard of that? It's Kate Czeka. Hi. Welcome.

Thank you for having me. Wow, you really had to like sit through us doing that whole thing, didn't you? I really enjoyed it. This is why I flew all the way for it to be live, because you don't get that. You don't get that same experience. Right, I was like, I need to be in the room for that.

Life's just many experiences stacked on top of each other and that was one of them. Well, you're welcome. It was very judicious. You're welcome. Thank you so much for being here in Caitlin's living room. Yeah, here we are. Yeah.

What a day, what a day. And we're also recording this the day before the American election, so we're chilling. What a wild time to be in the States. Right. Cause this, you'll probably be listening to this listeners in January. Yeah. So. The world might have ended already. Yeah, you might never actually listen to this listeners in January. Yeah.

So the world might have ended already. Yeah, you might never actually listen to this. We might be full on in the revolution at that point. Yeah. It's in full swing. So if you're listening from the front lines of the revolution, hello. Thank you for your service. Here are our thoughts about Angus, the thumbs and perfect snogging.

Really doing the work. Thoughts about a movie from 20 years ago, baby. This movie is so interesting. Yes, we are, this is a very common request on the movie. I feel like it is a like millennial, like late millennial, maybe early Gen Z staple movie. So I wanna know what everyone's history is with it, Kate. So I got the books, but not the first one.

So mom gave me like the fourth book in the sequence of books as a present when I was like 12. And I thought it was the funniest thing I'd ever read in my whole, like it was just, I remember like bringing it to school and like reading it during reading time in class and like laughing and all my friends would be like, why is she laughing so much?

And then they'd read it and be like, I don't even think it's that funny, but I thought it was so funny. And then I think I read the books and then I anticipated the movie because I loved the books. And then I don't remember the movie that well. I definitely saw it, but I think I was like,

you know when you read the books and you're like, it's not the books. The book is better. The book is better. The book is better. My imagination's wondrous, vast, and you could never do what I can do in my mind. Yeah. Of course, of course. You know?

But yeah, so I just adored the books. Okay. Yeah. Did you ever go back and like read the first one? Yeah, yeah, no, we read them all again? Yeah. Yeah, I know I reread them all again But then at some point I aged out of them before They've been finished being written because there's ten in total. There's so many more than I realized I got to the point where I couldn't read them, but I wanted to

Okay, and then someone time a 14 year old or like child not child a 14 year old their teenage They like offered me like do do you wanna borrow my ones? And I really wanted to, but I was too embarrassed to say. Yeah. That always makes me so sad. Like the first time I remember like turning away a YA classic because I'm like, I'm over it. I'm over it.

Oh yeah. Yeah. You hate to see it, but a day comes for us all. Oh yeah, absolutely. And then you can get, you're just no longer a young adult. No, no. And you just gotta be like, I'm an adult.

You're like, well today I grew up. Yeah, I've just come of age too much, and I'm over this. Yeah, but now I would read them again. And now I maybe will, after this. I think I'm gonna. Well, Caitlin did. Caitlin, Caitlin who vows to never read a book on the show regularly.

Yeah, I hate books. I hate books. Read a book. Well, let's be honest. I had an ebook be read to me. Oh, okay. This would be, I mean, I feel like if I'm remembering the cadence of the books, it would be a fun listen.

Yeah, especially when you listen to it on like two times speed, it really makes it go nicely. So yeah, my history with this. So I did read the first book. I don't think I read beyond that first one and didn't even know there were more than two books. So my bad. 10 is wild.

I think I got to three, maybe. Yeah, I got to the first two, I believe, and I read them when I was already too old. So this would have been the mid 2000, I think I was still in high school. I did the same thing with Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants where I read these books that were geared toward a demographic that was like maybe

two or three years younger than me. They were more for like 11, 12, 13 year olds and I was like 15. And I was like I've already kissed a boy's and I've touched a penis at this point. So these little are losers. These little babies who are still having their first kiss. I can't relate but for some reason I still read these books. I think I thought that Angus Thongs and Full Frontal Snogging was funny. I liked her sense of humor. And so I guess that's why I kept reading like I finished that book and I read on to the second one. But by the time the movie came out, which was 2008, I had fully aged out of the whole thing. And so I didn't see the movie until we started prepping

for the episode. Oh wow. Yeah. Same, same. I read the, I read I think the first three books, I loved diary style books when I was a kid. I feel like this was like probably a series I would have picked up when I ran out

of Princess Diaries books to read, which are like other, I just like loved them. And you're like, oh, it's kind ran out of Princess Diaries books to read which are like other I just like love them You're like, oh, it's kind of like British Princess Diaries and I also knew I don't know I was very like wow that she is using all these words. I've never heard of I loved the slang and These books I tried to like slaggy Lindsay's. I had to look up what slag was. Whoa I know we don't know over here. You don't say slag? We don't. It means it's like slut. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, like I had to like, I think if I'm remembering correctly, or maybe like came at the Scholastic Book Fair or something, you would get

like a little glossary to be like, if you're American, here's what they're talking about. Yes. I think we did have glossaries in them at some point. Yeah. And it was very helpful. And I tried to integrate it into my daily word usage. And all my friends were like, shut up. Nerdy B is not a thing. Oh, you tried to make it happen.

I was really trying to make it happen. Yeah, it was Gretchen Wiener's style, like trying to make fetch happen. Yeah, I was trying to to make it happen. Yeah, it was Gretchen Wiener's style, like trying to make fetch happen. Yeah, like trying to make British slang happen. I was always trying to like get the slang from Angus Thongs and Full Frontal Snogging and also just random Gilmore Girls references I didn't fully understand

and just eek them into conversation and other 12 year olds were like, shut the fuck up. Anyways, I enjoyed these books, but I also did not see the movie because I think I was in high school when it came out and I was like, I'm not gonna see it. And also I didn't realize this is a Nickelodeon movie, which I feel like as I was watching it felt,

it really felt like a Nickelodeon movie. So I think I missed this one because I was probably like, I'm 15, I'm too old for this, when it's like, I should have just seen it. Okay, I've got a question. What's the feel of a Nickelodeon movie? It's very, I think I said this at lunch yesterday. It's very like, boing. Like, it's very like, it's like, I feel like it's weird. It's weird that this is like a movie or like a story about like, coming of age and adolescence, I feel like it's weird that this is like a movie or like a story about like coming of age and adolescence that I feel like normally would be treated with like some sense sensitivity.

But it's like, they sort of, the parents are written in the movie to feel more like sitcom parents than I remember them in the book. They just feels like a Nickelodeon sitcom at certain places. It does, but I think the book, it just feels like a Nickelodeon sitcom at certain places. It does, but I think the books, I think it actually pretty accurately reflects the tone of the ad.

Having just reread it. Interesting. She spends a lot of the book talking about how much she hates her parents and especially her dad. Yeah. So, and she's like, oh, they're so corny, blah, blah, blah. But it's also like, if you're adapting the book, you should probably assume that Georgia's words are to be taken with a grain of salt because everyone like you shouldn't just adapt a 12 year old characterization of their

parents and be like, here are these fucking weird losers. Or maybe we should do that more. Maybe that's what everything's lacking. That's true, that's true. We have to get more 12 year olds in the writers room. Yes, we're not taking the opinions of 12 year olds seriously enough. I mean, that probably is true. But yeah, I guess that's what I mean when it felt,

it felt like Nickelodeon movie, like Snow Day and like other ones that were just like kind of edgier kids movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got a question. Was the book called Anger Songs and Perfect Snogging Here? No, it was called Full Frontal Snogging Here. Yeah, I'm just assuming they didn't want full frontal

as a name for a kids movie, which I could understand. I remember reading an article about how this movie was developed. Oh wow. Yes, in some kind of teenage magazine, like an article with the director, and they said it was a nightmare to try and get filming permission in locations

with the title Full Frontal Snogging, because everyone thought they were filming a porn movie. I mean, it does sound a bit like it. So they had to change the name to get permission to film in these locations. Yeah, that makes sense. I was reading that the book is, I wouldn't have guessed this,

but it's like frequently on banned books because of George's disrespect for authority. That's the issue? Yeah. Then disrespect for other people would be a better reason. Yeah, it's partially that. And then some of the homophobia, right? Well, it's more like just references to LGBTQ plus people.

At all, oh, great. Rather than the homophobia itself. And then just like references to sexual stuff. Like Christian. Yeah, yeah, because most of what book banning is is like the. It's like conservative agenda shit. Like Christo-fists. Yeah weirdos You know, um, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap. Shall we?

Hey, it's Nikki Glaser, I'm not here to roast you I'm here to overshare everything that went down at the Golden Globes last Sunday. Everyone is already talking about what happened on air at the Golden Globes, but you are going to hear about what happened off air from the horse's mouth. Yes, I'm the horse, me, Nikki Glazer. Join me on my podcast, The Nikki Glazer Podcast, where I will be telling you all the details.

I can finally relax with my besties, my listeners, and dish what happened backstage. What went down, the things people are already talking about, the things that people should be talking about, I've got it all. From what it took to prep for the Golden Globes to the behind the scenes of the Golden Globes, what went down in the rehearsals, who said what at the after party,

who I saw at the after party, who was dancing with who. I'm going to spill it all. Secrets will be revealed. You do not want to miss this episode. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. all, secrets will be revealed. You Offline's CES coverage won't be the usual rundown of the hottest gadgets or the biggest trends, but an unvarnished look at what the tech industry plans to sell or do to you in 2025, interrogating their narratives alongside a remarkable cast of industry talent and award-winning journalists. We'll have daily episodes, on-the-ground interviews, and special panels covering everything from the BS of AI to the ways in which race

and gender play into how people are treated in the tech industry and at these conferences. I'll be joined by David Roth of Defecta and the writer Edward Ongweiso Jr. with appearances from Behind the Bastards' Robert Evans, It Could Happen Here's Gare Davis, and a few surprise guests throughout the show. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts from. And check out betteroffline.com. courage, wisdom, and love. Every decision, every moment feeds one of them. Which wolf are you feeding? I'm Eric Zimmer, host of The One You Feed.

I've been there, homeless, addicted, and lost. I know the power of small choices to turn your life around. On this podcast, I sit down with thinkers, leaders, and survivors to uncover what it takes to feed the good wolf. This podcast saved me. It's like having a guide for the hardest parts of life. The wolves are hungry. What will you feed them? Listen to the one you feed on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2025 is bound to be a fascinating year. It's gonna be filled with money challenges and opportunities. I'm Joel. Oh, and I am Matt. And we're the hosts of How to Money.

We want to be with you every step of the way in your financial journey this year, offering the information and insights you need to thrive financially. Yeah, whether you find yourself up to your eyeballs in student loan debt, or you've got a sky-high credit card balance because you went a little overboard with the holiday spending, or maybe you're looking to optimize your retirement accounts so you can retire early. Well, how to money will help you to change your relationship with money so you can stress less and grow your net worth. That's right, How to Money comes out three times a week,

Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for money advice without the judgment and jargon. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all, I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls, and I'm thrilled to invite you to our January Jumpstart series for the third year running. All January, I'll be joined by inspiring guests who will help you kickstart your personal

growth with actionable ideas and real conversations. We're talking about topics like building community and creating an inner and outer glow. I always tell people that when you buy a handbag, it doesn't cover a childhood scar. When you buy a jacket, it doesn't reaffirm what you love about the hair you were told not to love. So when I think about beauty, it's so emotional because it starts to go back into the archives

of who we were, how we wanna see ourselves, and who we know ourselves to be and who we can be. So a little bit of past, present, and future, all in one idea, soothing something from the past. And it doesn't have to be always an insecurity. It can be something that you love. All to help you start 2025 feeling empowered and ready. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls starting on January 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. And here's the recap for Angus Thongs and perfect snogging.

Sorry, I'm going to do that. And it's going to be offensive, but I won't be able to stop myself. Okay. We are, we're in Eastburn, UK? Eastborne. Eastborne. Which is funny enough where my mother was born and raised. Where is it in relation to the only place I know, London? So if you go straight down from London,

it's Brighton and it's very close to Brighton. It's like just a little bit further along the coast, but it is just one of those old people places. Like just a place full of loads of old people. So when Georgia says it's boring, she's not lying. Yeah, she's not lying about the vibe. And like, yeah, people come here to die. So.

Got it. It's the Florida. Yeah, it's the Florida of the UK, but not as crazy. Okay. Not as scary. Because we're more normal. Cool, cool, cool. Okay, so we meet a 14 year old girl, Georgia,

played by Georgia Groom, while she's heading to a costume party dressed as a stuffed olive in this big bulky costume. And she gets to the party and realizes she's very out of place and her friends and everyone else is dressed in not goofy costumes. We meet her friends, Ellen, Rosie, and Georgia's best friend, Jazz, who again, they were supposed to all be dressed as hors d'oeuvres,

but they bailed, and Jazz points out that boys don't like girls for funniness. Yeah. And we'll talk about that. Except one time. So then Georgia is humiliated and she runs home where we meet her family, her mom and dad who constantly embarrass her. They're very boing. And she's like, stop! Her little sister Libby and her cat Angus, the most important character of the film played by

one of the great cat actors of our time. Acting his ass off. Georgia gears up for the first day of a new school year. She accidentally shaves off half of her eyebrow. She's insecure because she thinks her nose is too big. She's worried that she'll never get a boyfriend, stuff like that. Then on the first day of school, Georgia is in the schoolyard chatting with Jazz, Ellen, and Rosie, they call themselves the Ace Gang, and they're talking about kissing, or rather snogging boys. Wow. Yeah. They're talking about having their boobs touched.

They're grossed out by anything that seems quote unquote lesbian-yy as they put it. Yep, they sure didn't edit any of that. Well I guess maybe they did edit some of that out according. It is more prevalent in the book. It is so prevalent in the movie, that's wild. Well like triple it, triple it and that's the amount that it's in the book.

Okey dokey. Then these two boys walk past who the friends think are proper fit. The Ace, sorry, I can't. Sorry, listeners, Kate is sinking into the floor. She's like, stop. It's like being back in England. The Ace gang follows these boys around, stalks them with binoculars

and everything. Which is also very Nickelodeon movie, Harriet the Spy Coated. Yeah, true. And they discover that they're twin brothers who just moved from London. And one of them is Aaron Johnson. Oh my gosh. OK, I watched like an hour of this movie before I realized who that was. I was like, because yeah, he's kind of got like the Bieber hair. So you have to like squint really hard to be like, oh, whoa, it's that guy.

Yeah. So that's Robbie, played by Aaron Taylor Johnson. And every time I hear that name, I'm like, don't you mean Anya Taylor-Joy? And they're like, no, it's a different person. Oh my God. I mean, it's too close. It's too close. One of them has to change. And he just has one of those like white man faces that I cannot, just like my eyes and my brain do not register or recognize. I am like, what do I even know him from? He's in Kick Ass.

I haven't seen that. He's in, he was in that Ryan Gosling movie that came out where Ryan Gosling played his stunt double, Fall Guy. He's in- I could go all day. He's in The New Nosferatu, so I will know him for that. He was also in Tenet, Wild. Yeah, don't remember him being in that. Anyway, he's a guy and he plays Robbie.

The other brother is Tom, played by, I didn't bother to look it up. Wow, get his ass. He doesn't even have a Wikipedia page. Sean Bork. Wow, whoa. Yeah. Anyway, their parents have opened up

an organic grocery store in town. So Georgia and Jazz go to the store one day so that Jazz can flirt with Tom. She has like staked her claim on Tom. Meanwhile, Georgia is crushing on Robbie, the Anya Taylor Joy man, and she learns that he's in a band called the Stiff Dillons. And then-

That band name. And she, God, being 14 and having a crush on a boy in a band, what a vibe. Yeah. What a vibe. That is a good name for a band. It is. It's pretty good. I was like, correct, yeah. Yeah, I was, I feel like that felt authentically

like a teenage boy band name. If someone had said that's a band, I'd be like, yeah. Yeah, I was I feel like that felt authentically like a teenage boy band. If someone had said that's a band, I'd be like, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Which maybe shows how cool and musical I music listening I do. You're down with the kids. Hello, fellow kids. I'm here for the stiff Dylan's concert. I used to have a huge crush on this kid, Steven, I'm gonna full name him, Stephen Masaroni, who like worked part time at the Hot Topic

and played like the bass in like a Screamo band. And I was like, he's so dreamy, would not talk to me. But like, well, I mean. His loss. Yeah, look at me now, still thinking about him. So she's trying to flirt with Robbie, Georgia is, and then her mom comes in and embarrasses her and talks about her farting. And she's like, mom, stop.

She's doing the boing thing. But Georgia keeps daydreaming about kissing and snogging Robbie. But then Georgia sees Robbie with her classmate Lindsay, who Georgia thinks is a boring slag, though Georgia thinks she can't compete with Lindsay because she feels Lindsay is like more conventionally attractive. So it's more quote unquote developed, which is like a big deal when you're that age. Right, and so Georgia and her friends spy on Lindsay to try to learn some tricks on how to be more attractive

to boys, and they learn that Lindsay wears thongs and uses these like silicone bra inserts to make her boobs look bigger. Which is proof that she's a bad person is how the movie. And the Lindsay thing is so wild because it's like, before we even really hear her say or do anything, we learn that about her. And then it just does translate to like, so obviously,

she's a horrible, she's a liar. You're like, I don't know, check the math fair. Like. Right. Yes. I don't know, check the math there. Yes, so then Georgia decides to pay a visit to a boy named Peter Dyer who gives kissing lessons? Jail. This movie runs a mile a minute, honestly. It's crazy how much they do in one day.

It's wild, yeah, truly. Like, yeah, Peter Dyer. Jail. Jail. But shout out to the huge poster. He has a Hugh Grant in his bedroom. Why do we think that's there? Yeah, is that for him?

I don't, or is it, oh, maybe it's for the kids. Or is it for his clients? I bet it's for his, that makes total sense. I assume the clients. Right. Because he wants to just stare at this. Because this is hetero world, except we hate lesbians. And so what's going to get a girl in the mood more

than a huge poster of Hugh Grant? That makes more sense to me. Yeah. So my theory is that he just knows that in, I don't know, 10 years from now that Hugh Grant will be cast as the villain in Paddington 2, giving the performance of a lifetime, and he's just anticipating – He's getting ready.

He's getting – he's buckling in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, he's going to play Phoenix Buchanan, and it's going to be the best performance of all time. I think that's the more likely theory. Then, so Peter teaches Georgia how to do different types of kissing, including tongue kissing. Wee woo. And he tells her that she's a natural. When I was around that age, because I was like a super late bloomer with like first kisses and stuff like that, my, or I was probably younger. I was around that age, because I was like a super late bloomer with like

first kisses and stuff like that, or I was probably younger, I was like probably like 11 or 12, but my mom was like, I don't know why I bought it, but she was like, kissing with tongue is, I would never do that. I would never do that. And I was like, oh, and she's like, it's really unsanitary. I would never do it. And like I asked her about it years later, she's like, yeah, and she's like, it's really unsanitary. I would never do it. And I asked her about it years later. She was like, yeah, I guess I don't know why I said that. I was like, why? What was she trying to do, scam you out of?

I think it's just, I don't know. I guess it's like, I'll do that when I'm a parent too. I'm like, I'm just gonna fuck with them today. Like, I don't know why she, I think it was like, I was reading a teen magazine about like a kissing article or something, she was like, don't do that. I would never do that. And I was like, ooh. And then a year later, I was reading a teen magazine about like a kissing article or something. She's like, don't do that. I would never do that. And I was like, Ooh. And then, you know, a year later I was doing tongue kissing. Yeah.

Let me just say, wow. Maybe she knew she couldn't really hold the gates back. Yeah. She was just trying to buy time. Yeah. I would never, you will. I would get the flu. That was, I think part of the argument. She's going to get the flu. I will say that as a full adult who has snogged many times, I hate tongue kissing. Do not put your tongue in my mouth. I don't want to put my tongue. I like... Whoa, okay. So what? This is huge. Is this an American thing? Because I'm from Europe and we just...

I know. I think... No, it's a Caitlin thing. I will do very light, very subtle tongue, but I would, I just want an open mouth kiss with I don't want anyone's tongue really near me that much. For me, it's like a skill thing. Like if you, if you, if you're skilled with the tongue and you're not slobbering around like, well, most men aren't skilled. I know, I know.

I don't know. Maybe I should be a kissing teacher. Yeah. aren't skilled would say. I know, I know. So, I don't know. Bad tongue is bad. Maybe I should be a kissing teacher. Yeah, you should be less creepy Peter. Just to teach all these men how to kiss. We'll get you a giant Hugh Grant poster. I was like, you must have one around here somewhere. Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause that's what you need, that's your qualification. You have a full Monty poster, it's close enough. Yeah, and then we'll just set up a time that people can come around. No, that's the point of kissing. Well, I would not mind it if people were better at it, but it's just that, I don't know,

they do it so grossly and it grosses me out. I mean, when I've been in long-term relationships, if the kissing is not solid right away, I'm just like, look, if you're hanging around, we've, I've gotta show you how it works for me, which does not preclude tongue. I'm like into that, but it's like, but you know, try to develop some technique

for crying out loud. It's wild to me that people, some people can't. Yeah. Like, and also like, you know, I'm in my mid thirties, I'm like, what's happening? How did you get this far? How did you get this far in life? And the hotter they are, the less good they're at it.

Cause I feel like people are just afraid to tell them or something, I don't know. Not me, no, not you. You've been doing good work out there. I'm already kind of a kissing teacher. Cause I have like, I'll be like, sir, stop and do it this way and not that way. And yeah, I had to say once, I was like, you can't like, your tongue can't hit me before your lips.

That's like- That would be insane. But there's people out there that they're like, they're leading with the tongue. Yeah. So wild. I've been there, I've been. I'm like, you're 35, how is this possible?

Like what's going on? Yeah, do you know what I mean? Like in the olden days, you'd be dead by now and you wouldn't have even nailed this thing. Meanwhile, your life is over. You never learned to kiss. I mean, tragic. Okay, back to the phlegm. So Georgia is learning how to kiss.

It's also her birthday coming up and she's trying to convince her parents to let her throw a big party at a nightclub. And this is another upper middle class like formative story so it's not a money problem it's just they don't want her to be at a nightclub. Right and then her dad tells her that he's been offered a job in New Zealand and that he's going there for a few months. And she's like, fine, my dad is so embarrassing. And so then Georgia comes up with a plan to pretend that her cat Angus has gone missing so that she can enlist Robbie's help in finding Angus because Robbie also loves cats. And she sees this as a way to get closer to him. And it kind of works because they're vibing

while they're looking for Angus. And Robbie does eventually rescue him, but then he like leaves to go hang out with his girlfriend, Lindsay. But the plan does help Jazz, Georgia's best friend because Robbie's brother, Tom, asks Jazz out and she's thrilled about it. Then Georgia's dad leaves for New Zealand and then her mom starts having a man named Gem come over

to redo the kitchen. This storyline, I can't. Which is Steve Jones. I don't know who that is. Okay, real quick recap of Steve Jones. British TV presenter. Okay. He's well, she's very, very hot and very attractive,

but he's dated so many, he for a while was like, he was a slag. I'm calling it now. But dated so many Hollywood women because he'd interviewed them when they'd come to the UK and they were like, this guy's really hot with a fun accent. So he had like a thing with Pamela Anderson.

Oh. Yeah. And Angelina Jolie asked for his number. Whoa. And Hayden, I can't. Payden, Pantene. Yeah, that one. We got there. And they had, yeah, they were like seen together on a yacht in Cannes.

Okay, well, good for him. And he is handsome and muscular. And Georgia is worried. I was very surprised when people told me. That her mom is having sex with Gem. Correctly worried, because he's a slag. He's a slag. And he's, you know how your interior decorator

is topless all the time? You're just like, that's the boing I'm talking about. Does the adults do not behave rationally? So Robbie's girlfriend, Lindsay, seems to know that Georgia likes Robbie. So she tells Georgia to stay away from her man. And then she pushes her down in gym class while they're playing field hockey which is

very similar to a scene from a movie we covered recently, Ginger Snaps, where the popular mean girl pushes over the protagonist but this time it's into a dog carcass. So it's a little different in Ginger Snaps but similar vibes. And so then Georgia and her friends go to a classmates birthday party. Georgia's hoping that Robbie will be there but she doesn't see him. But who is there is kissing instructor boy Peter and he like surprise kisses slash lunges at Georgia, making her fall into the bushes and causing her dress to fly up. And just then Robbie shows up with Lindsay and Tom and Jazz

and everyone sees George's underwear. And it's 2008, so no one is like, hey, that's an assault we just saw. They're just like, oh my God, Georgia, you're so embarrassing. Which unfortunately I think is probably how that would have went down at that time. For sure.

Yeah. And of course, Georgia is humiliated. And then I don't know if it's like the next day or a few days later, but Georgia goes to the pool with her sister, knowing that Robbie will be there. And she tells him like, don't worry, I'm not dating that Peter boy. And he's like, oh really?

Well in that case, and he kisses her. But then he runs off, because he's like, I have to sort some things out, but he says he'll call her. Several days pass, he hasn't called. Meanwhile though, Peter asks out Georgia, and she lies and says she can't go out with him because she's a lesbian.

And he's like, oh no. Other things are falling apart as well. Lindsey moves her birthday party to the same day as Georgia's party. Georgia's dad wants to take the job in New Zealand permanently, so she's afraid she's gonna have to move there, and she's still sad that Robbie hasn't called. Then Georgia's mom gives her a copy of the book Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus, in which-

Which is another what a 2000s move. So in the book, Georgia learns the trick of basically playing hard to get. So she gets the idea to go to Robbie's band's gig with a friend of his, this boy, Dave, Dave the Laugh. Dave, what a brutal nickname. They're just like, they might as well just be like, Dave, who no one

wants to have sex with. Like that is what, that is the, how the movie approaches. If you're funny, no one wants you. As a comedian, it was back in. Yeah. And let's compare our lived experiences. And also at this gig, the band, the Stiff Dillons, plays a cover of a song that I know exclusively from the soundtrack of Say It With Me Now, Shrek 2. Wait, really? Yeah, it's the Ever Fallen in Love, parentheses with someone you shouldn't have,

by Buzzcocks is the name of the band. Oh, I love Buzzcocks, I didn't know that was in, wow. It's in Shrek 2. I'm a fake fan. Yeah, I love Buzzcocks. I didn't know that was in, wow. It's in Shrek 2. I'm a fake fan. Yeah, I'm a fake fan. I should have known that. I should have known that. I was like, wait a minute, why do I recognize this song?

And I was like, oh. And then you're like with regrets. Because it's Shrek 2. Yep. Okay, so this plan of Georgia's to like make Robbie jealous backfires because Dave, who seems to really like Georgia finds out from Jazz that Georgia just used Dave to make Robbie jealous. So Georgia gets mad

at Jazz for like blabbing and they get in a huge fight and they like say they're never going to talk to each other again. Plus Robbie is pissed at Georgia for hurting his friend Dave's feelings. And then also Georgia had like very classistically told Jazz that Tom isn't good enough for her because he's like a grocer. And so Robbie realizes how immature and shallow Georgia is. Meanwhile, it really seems like her mom is having sex with Jim and she's gonna leave her dad for them. She's also just the signifier in the 2000s of

like wearing a thong, like something bad is gonna happen to this, something bad is about to happen. Did either of you watch Degrassi? No. There's such an iconic scene where it's like the, a character who I think it's like she's coming in for her sophomore year of high school, Manny Santos, everyone's screaming on the other end of the podcast. But she comes back after a summer and in the way that sometimes teenagers do, and she's wearing a thong and everyone's like, oh, you've changed, you're hot now. Like it was just like in the 2000s, that's how you told people I'm hot now. That's how you alerted people that you were hot and down.

Exactly, exactly. The whale tail was what was. And it's like yeast infections be damned. I'm hot. Exactly. The whale tail was, was what was interested. And it's like yeast infections be damned. I'm hot. I need people to know I'm hot and at risk for a yeast infection. I do remember being a teenager and wanting the thong look, but not being able to wear one for uncomfortable reasons.

Yeah, they're so uncomfortable. Yeah, I think I like sneakily bought one in high school because my cousin worked at Victoria's Secret and then I got it and then I put it on and I was like, what the fuck? What the hell is this? Nevermind. Sorry, this was a mistake.

The only time I've worn a thong is I dressed up one year, speaking of the full Monty, as their strip costume and they wear these little red thongs that they expose at the end. And so I did that for a Halloween costume. So you would just wear the thong? No, I had the full, they're dressed as security guards

that they then remove the, but I was wearing that most of the time, but sometimes I would show my butt and I'd be like, look. And people would be like, oh, scandalous. A thong. Yeah. She's down.

She's down. Yeah. She's so cool. Sheong. Yeah. She's down. She's down. Yeah. She's so cool. She's hot now. She's hot. I was like 19 at the time. Yeah, this was in college. And you dressed up as a little guy from the Full Monty.

Yeah. That's cool. That is cool. It was so cool. And hot, yeah. Thank you. It's however I knew you were hot now. Yeah. Exactly, exactly.

Okay, so yeah, the whole thing with Georgia's mom maybe having an affair with Jim. So then this makes Georgia go to her dad's company to try to speak with his boss to convince him to like have her dad come back to the UK, but the boss isn't there. So she's just like crying to a receptionist. And then she goes home having decided that the whole family should move

to New Zealand. And her mom's like, what? Oh my gosh. And then she like starts doing yoga and like other forms of self care and spiritual cleansing. She's growing up this Georgia. Um, and then she approaches Robbie to apologize for her behavior. And he's like, yeah, you were a bitch, but I can't stop thinking about you. And also I broke up with Lindsay last night. And she's like, well.

The teen drama. So drama. And then she tells him she's moving to New Zealand and he's like, damn, well, let's hold hands. So they do that. And then we cut to the next morning. It's her birthday. And her mom tells her she's taking her out dancing at a nightclub that night, which I don't think any teenager would want. but she's like really into it. And, but it turns out to be this huge surprise party

that Jazz helped organize, which means that Georgia and Jazz are best friends again. And surprise, also Georgia's dad is there. And it turns out he's not going to stay in New Zealand after all. He's been offered an even better job right there at home. And then another huge twist,

her mom has not been having sex with Jem because he's gay. And his boyfriend owns the club. Uh huh, and guess who else is there? Robbie playing with the stiff Dillons. Wow Robbie, playing with the Stiff Dillons. Wow. I can't believe the Stiff Dillons probably made money off of her party.

Oh yeah. Unless they played for free. Hard to say. I know. Then Lindsay crashes the party and she comes on stage and she insults Georgia and she tries to get back together with Robbie, but he's like, no, I like Georgia. She's goofy and I like that actually.

And then they kiss on the lips in front of everyone. What? And they're all cheering. Never. And now Georgia's life is perfect because she's got a cute boyfriend and great friends. Her parents are horny for each other again, and she's more confident and mature.

And most importantly, her cat Angus is awesome. The end. The end. What a journey. So let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss. Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. I'm not here to roast you. I'm here to overshare everything that went down at the Golden Globes last Sunday. Everyone is already talking about what happened on air at the Golden Globes, but you are going

to hear about what happened off air from the horse's mouth. Yes, I'm the horse. Me, Nikki Glaser. Join me on my podcast, the Nikki Glaser podcast, where I will be telling you all the details. I can finally relax with my besties, my listeners, and dish what happened backstage. What went down? The things people are already talking about, the things that people should be talking about. I've got it all. From what it took to prep for the Golden Globes, to the behind the scenes of the Golden Globes. What went down in the rehearsals? Who said

what at the after party? Who I saw at the after party? Who was dancing with who? I'm gonna spill it all. Secrets will be revealed. You do not wanna miss this episode. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast.

And this January, we're going on the road to beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada to cover the Consumer Electronics Show, Tech's biggest conference. Better Offline podcast. And this January, we're going on the road to beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada, to cover the Consumer Electronics Show, Tech's biggest conference. Better Offline's CES coverage won't be the usual rundown of the hottest gadgets or the biggest trends, but an unvarnished look at what the tech industry plans

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for the third year running. All January, I'll be joined by inspiring guests who will help you kickstart your personal growth with actionable ideas and real conversations. We're talking about topics like building community and creating an inner and outer glow. I always tell people that when you buy a handbag, it doesn't cover a childhood scar. You know, when you buy a jacket, it doesn't reaffirm what you love about the hair you were told not to love.

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And we're back. Where to begin with this movie? I wanted to start with something I did not previously know about this movie that I found surprising, which is that this movie was co-written and directed by Gurinder Chadha, who also wrote and directed Bend It Like Beckham and Bride and Prejudice and all of these kind of iconic millennial movies.

I did not know that she was the director behind this movie. And I wouldn't have guessed it, I guess. Because I feel like Bend It Like Beckham, I mean, and I have a quote from her that sort of contextualizes this a little bit, but I feel like her style of writing is not this, right? And like, so she, I have a quote from her here. There is like a whole oral history done

in the independent about this movie last year with the star Georgia Groom, who is also fun fact, I think married to Rupert Grint. I know. I don't think she performs very much anymore. But yeah, that's- Rupert Grint's probably got so much money. I mean, Harry Potter.

If I was married to Rupert Grint, I may retire also. I would also not work. But yeah, because Angus Thongs and Full Frontal smogging, snogging, or in LA, here it's smogging. Smog, yeah. Has such a specific cadence and authorial voice, but I feel like so do her movies But it's like clear that the book got preference here So I have a quote from her here saying I'd already made it bend it like Beckham which in a way was my teen movie

It captured that sense of girls who were smart and real as opposed to high school He not mean girls as it were just authentic girls with a dream. That really had a big impact. But Angus was different. It was Louise's version of teenagers, which was great. When I read it, I thought, yeah, I know how to do this and I can do it well. So she's also acknowledging, she's like, this is not really the kind of movie I would normally do.

Yeah. So she also co-wrote the screenplay along with three other credited writers. And I have a quote about this Yes Where she says quote when the project came to me the studio Paramount had it for five years And even though they're British books they had these two American guys adapt the book and they couldn't get it to work I read the script and thought how how weird. This is sort of LA

males version of an English girl's childhood. And then I read the books and I thought there's something here that relates to me growing up that I hadn't seen in the script. I thought this could be a British genre film or be like Clueless or Mean Girls in England. And I liked the idea of doing a British version of those films then it clicked that it should be like 16 candles." So she had to like kind of clean up the mess that these like two American men. Which of course they would hire two American men to write about a British teenage girl. That would have been a worrying film I think.

Yeah, I'm very glad that she got a hand in it. I wish she'd maybe gotten more of a hand in it. But I did like, I mean, starting with the positive stuff, reading through this oral history was really nice. It seemed like everyone had a good experience, and also working with a woman director seemed to be really impactful on the young women in the cast. I've got a quote from Georgia Groom here.

Watching Gurinder lead as a woman was quite a pivotal moment for all of us as young teenagers to see that strength and tenacity that she had to be able to lead that charge. It's not an easy job and she just did it so well and was so much fun inside of her. It was a real girl power thing. Also, she had just had twins when she directed this movie.

So there's all of these really cool pictures of Gurinder Chada and her twins on set. And also it seems like she prioritized teaching the child actors how the cameras worked and was really hands on with giving them an education if they ever wanted, I don't know. I was like, yeah, it just seems like she's, I'm sure we talked about this on the pendant

like Beckham episode too, but she just seems like a terrific person who's like really sweet and supportive of her cast. And she also has a couple of quotes in here about how infrequent girls are centered in stories and how she felt like in, wait, I do wanna get this quoted, of how the release in America,

I also didn't remember this, was kind of botched. Like it was never released theatrically in the US. It was only aired on Nickelodeon because they're like, the parents go boing. I'm not gonna stop saying it. But yeah, Grenda Chada says, in America Nickelodeon didn't know what to do with the film. They didn't think it would be a big hit.

So they never released it theatrically and aired it on a big day on Nickelodeon and ratings went through the roof. And executive did say to me after that, they'd made a huge mistake and they should have put it out theatrically because the amount of times girls have watched that film over and over again.

So it's just like, I feel like yet another example of people underestimating. Do they just think that women don't do anything? Like that we just are in the house, like not doing it, like absorbing any culture. It's so, I feel like we learn that time and time again with any like non-white male audience, where I mean, like, I think we talked about it

on our first wives club episode where they're like, no one wants to see women over 40, and then that movie made a bajillion dollars. And like how difficult it was to get Black Panther made, and then that movie made an actual billion dollars. And it's just like, oh, I have to. But it's like, they keep doing the conversation again with Barbie, they were like,

who knew there were women out here? What? And they're like, and there's another billion. And women watch things? Oh my gosh. What do they think we're up to? Or do they just not know that we're here? They kind of just freak you out of sight, out of mind.

Because we won't hang out with them. I've never seen any from around. I suppose my mom. But those are some of the positive things I have to say about the movie. It seems like it was a really good on set experience and I like the director's body of work, but this one maybe not as much. Right, so I wanna touch on the book

because I did spend all that time reading it. All those late nights, all those five hours listening to the audio book on 1.9 speed. So this movie is based on the first two books in the series. I didn't read the second book which has. Oh is it now I'm the girlfriend of a sex god?

Yeah on the bright side I'm now the girlfriend of a sex god. That's the American title. Oh no ours is called. It's okay I'm wearing really big knickers. Yes. I feel like the American title is like, saucier in that case.

Yeah, but it's just because you didn't know what knickers were. Probably. Okay. Unfortunately. We already had so much confusion with the. We knew what sex gods were. Snogging, so we didn't wanna confuse anyone again.

I still don't, so in the movie, they call each other mingers a lot. What is that? Oh yes, good question. You've never come across mingers? No. Oh, it's just like an ugly person. Oh.

Like they're minging. I would not. They're like ugly-ing? Yes, I guess. I guess it's like a verb, an adjective, no an adjective. But they are minging, yeah. Oh, wow. They are. Well, they are minging.

Mm-hmm. And minging was like very much a thing. I remember saying it. Okay, so is minge something also? And what's that? Minge is just vaginas. Vagina, okay. But minge is separate from minging.

I think, I hope so. I hope they don't have the same etymology. They might do. I'm not in charge of the words. They're spelled quite similarly. Yes. Okay, just clearing up. Yeah, minging is minging.

You wouldn't say ming. Okay. You wouldn't have that. But you would say minge. But you wouldn't say, oh, she's minging. She's having extra vagina. She's vagining. She's vagining, no.

You can be ugly, but you can't be vagina-ing. No. Okay, okay. Just m, no, I didn't say that. You can be ugly, but you can't be vagina-y. No. Okay, okay. Just minge. Okay. But I would say minge. Oh. But I would say that to my best friend now,

because it's funny, or I would say clunge. Right, I did know. Because clunge is also, you know about clunge? I know about clunge. Yeah, because I also think they're quite funny words. They are really funny. Yeah, wow. Oh wait, I did know about minge,

because shout out to my former roommate, British Martha. British Martha. Yeah. She taught me about minge. And then I was like, oh, so do you call pubic hair minge fringe? Oh, we should call it that, but we don't. But you can make that happen. But I will. OK. Yeah. I'm going to make minge fringe happen.

Yes, go for it. Watch out, world. OK, so the book is what I'm trying make Minge Fringe happen. Yeah, let's go for it. Watch out world. Okay, so the book is what I'm trying to talk about. So written by Louise Renneson, who I think wrote all 10. RIP. Oh, I didn't realize she had passed away. She passed in her mid 60s. Which is crazy.

Yeah, it's really sad. So the first book was published in 99. The sequel, which I didn't read, but the movie is partially based on, published a year later in 2000. The format of the books is like Georgia's diary, right? So, you know, middle school aged teens in the late 90s, early 2000s, you know,

not known for being the most progressive people. So there's a lot of problematic stuff in the book. A lot of it translates to the movie, but there's even more in the book where there's a lot, as we mentioned, of like homophobia and specific like anti-lesbian rhetoric. There's like a phys ed teacher that makes an appearance in the movie, but in the book she's always talking about,

ooh, she was staring at me again because she's a lesbian. And George is praying to God that she is not a lesbian, things like that. It's such casual homophobia. It really sucks because I feel like books like that. Such like casual homophobia that is like, it really sucks because it's like, I feel like books like that at the time would have like reinforced the culture that already existed, which was so, so, so hostile.

That it's like a reflection of what was already acceptable, but then putting it in the mouth of like Georgia, who's supposed to be like the coolest girl ever to readers at least, like the self insert. It's like, it's supposed to be like the coolest girl ever to readers at least like the self-insert it's like it's yeah very tender age to be getting that kind of messaging yeah not good so there's not only that there's casual transphobia where in the book Georgia finds a garment of her dad's that she thinks is an apron I think it's implied that it's like some like sexual outfit or something, but.

Oh yeah, because her parents are really horny for each other. Yeah. Good for them, I guess. But she finds this garment that she thinks is like a feminine garment. And so she now assumes that her dad is transitioning and it's like very disgusting to her.

Yeah, she keeps. I'd forgotten about that. Yeah. I honestly really just that. Yeah, yeah. I honestly really just remember Nervy B. That's like really all that stuck for me. The only thing I remember from the book, from reading it all those years ago, was her being self-conscious of her nose.

That was the main thing I remembered. That's interesting, Kash. I'm glad I don't remember the transphobia storyline. Like what the fuck? It's good, it's important. Your brain blocks out things. Yes. Which is like, this isn't good.

Like this is trash, this is trash. Self preservation. Yeah. There's also, it's not prominent in the book, but it is there. There's racism where there's at least one example of Georgia making a comment that's anti-Asian racism. There's a fair amount of fat phobia and body shaming,

which does translate to the movie. Georgia makes remarks that are ableist, that are disparaging about sex workers. She's very callous about suicide. So there's like all these very problematic things in the book, some of which- She's a monster. Sounds terrible. She does not deserve Robbie. A lot of it does carry over to the movie, namely the homophobia and the fat phobia. It's interesting because it's like the there are certain things that are presented in a way that is like at least I think at the time would have been clear to me, like Georgia's insecure and sensitive about her nose.

That's not presented as like, and she should be, but all of the homophobia is presented very like matter of factly, is never challenged in any way. And all the slut shaming. But the thing is that was actually like having been a British teenage girl, that is what the culture was. It was a real like, oh God, we grew up in not good times.

Yeah, but like the worst timeline. The worst of times. And yet this is the worst of times. So I don't know how they've managed to make it. Keeps getting worse. Yeah, because they look back nostalgically, but then weirdly. And then you watch it and you're like, oh, wait, this is the worst of times.

How have we ever had it? Good. When was the good of time? Yeah. In Charles Dickens, Tale of Two Cities, it was the best of times. But then really quickly, the best of the best of us, the worst of times. He really cooked with that. Yeah. Amen. And there is racism in the movie in the sense of how the Ellen character is treated. Yeah, I was like watching that.

I was like, wait, did they just bring on this South Asian character to bully her? To bully her. Yeah. Which is like wild to me because Gurinder Chada is, she's I think Kenyan born British of Indian descent. But she like, more to the point, the writer, director of Bend It Like Beckham.

That was where I was really like. Yeah, it was very jarring. Yeah, I have to. I mean, based on what, Caitlin, you found about her having to clean the script up, I'm wondering how much she was able to ultimately have influence over, because that was just like really jarring from someone who has like made such thoughtful,

inclusive movies in the past. I think what happened there, if I speculate on how I feel like the UK is, is that it was gonna be four white girls. And then she would have pushed to be like, can we have one for some representation? And then you'd be like, yeah, the one that gets bullied. Do you know what, like that's I think

how it would have gone down. It's like, yeah, but she can't be cool. We can't like like, yeah, the one that gets bullied. Do you know what, like that's, I think, how it would have gone down. It's like, yeah, but she can't be cool. We can't like her. Yeah, I've honestly believed that within the 2000s movie environment. Like, yeah, poor Ellen. Like I just, and she disappeared for like such large swaths of the movie.

She felt like very disconnected from the rest of the friend group because it's like Georgia and Jazz are the you know core friends and then there's two other friends but there's other there's times where what's the other is Ellen Ellen Ellen is the one we're talking about who's the who's the fourth Rosie Rosie so it's like you'll see scenes where like Rosie and Jazz are walking together and they're like we're mad at Georgia and I'm like okay where's Ellen like there she's just like disappeared from the movie for just whole chunks it's really bizarre yeah and like anytime she like tries to make a suggestion or like give advice or say

like what about me do I get a boy to have a crush on and they're always just like oh shut up shut up. Shut up, Ellen. You're not allowed anyone. They treat her like Jerry on Parks and Rec. Like, it's brutal. Which is a dynamic that is reflective of real life when there's a close friend group who is predominantly white,

but there's like maybe one person of color. That also, I was in there. But I don't think I was an Ellen. I would like to put it, I was cool. Yeah. Lesbian crowd. I was saying there was no problems, but I don't think I was in Ellen. I would like to point out, I was cool. I was saying there was no problems, but I'm like, I'm no Ellen. Right, so it's not as though this- Burrowing Ellen under the bus.

Yeah, goodbye Ellen. Bye. So it's not as though this doesn't happen, it's just that the movie doesn't interrogate this at all. But also they left her at Peter's house, so when Georgia goes in, then Ellen's queuing up to go in as well, like, all right, we're all going to Peter now.

And then they all leave her. Like the other two, like everyone's waited for Georgia to come out. And then they walk off. Yeah, they do not wait for Ellen. But I also was wondering, I mean, because the interest of these characters is very limited, but that Ellen seems to be obviously

like really interested in boys and wants to kiss and whatever, she seems to have booked a session with Peter or whatever. She's looking at the Hugh Grant poster, you know, she's locked in, but that like doesn't really go anywhere. Like, I feel like that is more presented as a joke of like, and even Ellen's doing it because that doesn't really come back around in any meaningful way. I was sort of wondering, like, I wonder if Ellen will hit it off with Peter, but they just sort of toss her

a Dave the laugh towards the end. That's right. Is that who she gets towards the end? Yeah, at the party. Yeah, that's a weird moment as well. You know, when you pair up all your friends with other men? I feel like that happens at the end of this type of movie so often where they're like, which characters are still single? Yeah, there they go, there they go. Yeah, that makes sense.

We can't possibly leave any single people in the movie. That'd be crazy. We can't have any single 14 year olds at this party. What an embarrassing body, single and 14. There's also a scene where Ellen and Georgia are getting ready for the party they go to and Ellen expresses insecurities about her dark body hair. And she's like, oh, I have a mustache.

I'm worried I have sideburns. And she says this to Georgia and she's like, you're lucky you don't have dark hair like me and Georgia's just like, I know. First of all, Georgia is white, but she does have dark hair and like speaking as a white person with dark hair, like it is visible, my body, like my body hair is visible unless I remove it.

So for Georgia to just be like, yeah, sucks for you. Also we saw Georgia shave off one of her eyebrows, basically, to deal with a monobrow situation. So I don't know why she's out here talking like she doesn't have a problem. It was just like an opportunity to have these two characters connect over something that would have made sense. And it's like yet another be like, yeah, Ellen, you suck.

You're like, come on, come on. And we never, I mean, I don't think we meet any of the girls' families, but again, it's just, I feel like we just have the least insight into Ellen and she's like, I feel like it's worse than tokenized because they just are dumping on her. They just mean to her. Yeah.

Right, I was feeling like Rosie gets even slightly less characterization than Ellen, but at least she's not like bullied by her friends. And she has a boyfriend. And has like a Swedish boyfriend, I assume, because he's called Svet. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In the book, she talks about her very tall, and yeah, I think Swedish boyfriend. But well, here's- This is before Brexit, so obviously, they could have seen each other. Yeah. I feel like I always, I don't know, anytime I think about Europe, I'm like, whoa, so if you're in the UK

and then you're dating someone in Sweden, that would be like, what, if we were dating someone from Chicago, like distance-wise? I think less. It's so boring when we do it. I don't know, I think it's just so. Less, but, because how long's the flight to Chicago? Like three hours. Three hours. Right, so like a flight to Sweden's

not gonna be more than two. I don't think. Wow. So maybe Denver. I think the book makes it seem like Sven is there as like an exchange student. So I don't think it's like long distance. But speaking of the book,

I don't even remember the Ellen character from the book at all. So I don't know. Is she in the book? She is, okay. At least in the book at all. So I don't know. She is in the book. She is, okay. Isn't she? If she is, she's mentioned,

but not necessarily as like someone who's like hanging out with Georgia a lot. I feel in the later books, she's in the books for sure. She's, no one's given like any race that's not white. I just assume everyone's white in the books, but the Ellen character and Georgia are definitely like in the same friend group, but have a rivalry.

Oh, okay. Yes. So down the line, there's some issue. Maybe Ellen dates Tom's, the law. No, maybe Ellen dates Dave the law. Oh, well that's who she ends up with at the end of the movie. Something happens with they're kind of friends, but not friends in the books later,

but I can't really remember. At least, again, but not friends in the books later. I can't really remember. At least again, I only reread the first one. I'm sure Ellen is there, but she's so little of a presence that you wouldn't necessarily like remember her. It's a huge focus on the friendship with Jazz and the like enemy ship with Lindsay. And then there's all the,

there's other girls that don't really make it into the movie that are kind of the girls who are like, come on, let's do this thing that is scandalous and that will get us into trouble. And so there's things like that that are kind of memorable, but as far as Ellen's presence, if she is there at all in the first book,

it's not very noticeable, which means that the writing like beefed up her character for the movie. But for people to be horrible to watch. Yeah, as a punching bag. So it's just upsetting. A huge, huge, huge bummer. I want to blame the three American guys, but.

Let's do that. Yeah. Let's do it. That's okay. Yeah let's do that. Let's do it. That's okay. Sometimes you can. But yeah, it was a real bummer and really stuck out. And also that I think it's Ellen's character who like says the first homophobic comment too of the movie who was like, we can't grab our own boobs. That would make us lesbians.

Oh, does that make us lesbians? Yeah. And that's supposed to be a thing. Because they're sitting on their hands. So to touch their own boobs. I think I probably tried that. I know, I was like. To be like, does it feel good?

I'm not gonna lie, I did it as I was watching the movie. Oh, okay, you tried it recently. Yeah, and I was like, wow. And it did feel like I was just grabbing my own boobs and then my hands really hurt. But then I had pins and needles. It was really sad, it was hard for me. But I'm a grown up so I can just have someone grab my boobs.

These losers. Yeah. Grabbing their own boobs, yeah. What do we think about, okay, Georgia I had such a hard time with because I feel like the whole internal logic of the movie is like, and also she's like a kid, but still, still,

she's like, boys don't like me because I'm funny. And I'm like, I would not say that that's not why, that's why boys don't like you. Which I guess does go into like, she's immature, which Robbie does call out, and that she has to, I guess, grow up a little bit. What is this storyline that's like men are so much more mature than, what's happening here?

Where it's like, but he is older, he's 17 and she's 14. Yeah, so this is more clear in the book where he says to her, yeah, but stop dating 14 year olds you 17 year old. Maybe also if you are worried that they're so immature, that feels like a really easy fix on your heart. Don't date a 14 year old, easily done. Yes, and I do remember the article being like,

it was very hard to cast a 17 year old that we could get to snog a 14 year old that wouldn't feel weird. And it turns out, yeah, yeah, I do remember that from the article. We had trouble casting. And it turned out it was Aaron Johnson, who's now married to Sam Taylor Wood. So he has no trouble snogging anyone of multiple ages. He doesn't mind an age gap. He doesn't mind age gap in either direction. He's good to snog anyone. That is such a weird thing to put in an article. Yeah. And also just I wow. Yeah. And I think that's a good point kids that like the boys are more mature. That doesn't

doesn't really track. It doesn't track. Yeah. But they're older, I guess, which is still. But also the whole point is that they're not, that's why 17 year olds maybe date 14 year olds. Right, I just, I feel like when I was 14, I was more mature than most 17 year old boys. Sure. Yeah. Like, anyways, but I'll suspend my disbelief.

I like, like, I like Georgia. I think it's like the attachment to the books as a kid where you're rooting for her. I feel like it was cathartic to be like, yeah, my parents are really annoying too, but if they ever got divorced, I'd be so sad. I thought those beats worked better for me in the movie where it's her balancing very like tween-ish age, like I hate my family, but if anything changes, I'll die, like that stuff felt good, but I don't know. I don't know, what do we think of Georgia?

Folks, the thing that I connected with, I think the most as a 38 year old person consuming this was that she values humor and being a funny person. Yes. And she learns that boys don't like girls for funniness. And so part of the movie is her trying to figure out what boys do like and catering to that while also trying to figure out who she is

and wants to be a unique person who has a personality but feels like she has to suppress her silliness. Stuffed olive. Yeah, I like her commitment to the bit. I like that she was like, I'm going as a stuffed olive to this party. And that does, I mean, I feel like that's such a great like establishing scene too, where it's like,

she's the only one who was confident enough to follow through on the olive and the other girls are like. And it's a great idea for a costume. I think that would be hilarious. And it looked like so much work, I think she was destroying it and I was like, oh my God. Days, days. I love that it's become a trope for usually a character

who's a woman to show up to a party in a mood because it happens in Bridget Jones' diary. It happens in Mean Girls. It happens in Legally Blonde. Yeah. Where like the person in question. Oh I forgot it happened in Legally Blonde. Yeah she shows up as like a bunny.

Like a playboy. And the same in Bridget Jones. They were like, I don't know which one came first but they were like, this woman in a bunny outfit to somewhere where no one's dressed up. Right. See how she feels then. It reminds me of my favorite tweet ever,

the Katie Dippel tweet. Yes, the Babadook. Where she stresses the Babadook and everyone else is just wearing clothes. Yeah. There is an example. So it does happen in real life. How did it happen?

I don't know. I need to find it. It's the funniest thing ever. It really is. While you're looking for that, I can think of one example of a man or a male character showing up to a party in a costume that's very inappropriate for the party he's at, which is Zac Efron in a movie that I don't remember

what it's called. But Michael B. Jordan is also in the movie, I think. And he shows up to a costume with like a prosthetic penis, like hanging out of his pants. And it's like, because it was pitched to him as a dress up party. So he thought that meant costume party, but it meant like dress in an elegant dress outfit.

Okay. That, no, if you say it's a dress up party, that means costume. That's on you. Well, so he was correct. So Zac Efron, innocent. I mean, the choice of costume, questionable. Right, for sure.

Yeah, but what was he supposed to be? Just a man with his, a flashlight? Yeah, just like, he's like, I'm rocking out with my cock out or something like that. Because that's a choice I think if I went to Halloween party I'd question. Oh for sure if a man came in that outfit. Yeah, it was a bad costume I'd be like, I don't know if I'd want to chat

Even my bunny outfit which I will be wearing because I'm a girl that So I won't be going, it's a stuffed outfit. I have the tweet here. I also realized when I looked it up, because it was Halloween last week, that friend of the show, Ben Rogers is sitting next to her. Oh my gosh, I never noticed that. Here it is. It's still so funny.

Oh no. Oh no. This is so funny. Oh no. Oh no. This is so good. You can see it really sinking in. It's sinking in for her as the picture is taken. We'll post it on our Instagram. I'm so glad. That's so good.

I love that you got to see it for the first time. It's one of the greatest tweets of all time. Yeah. Anyway, so the point is that Georgia is like, Georgia is like, she doesn't wanna suppress this funny, like humorous aspect of herself, but she's learned, like many of us have as comedians, we learned that like men tend not to, or if they value a sense of humor in a woman,

what they mean is that they want a woman to laugh at all their jokes, but they don't want a woman who they mean is that they want a woman to laugh at all their jokes, but they don't want a woman who generates her own humor. And certainly not funnier than they are. Certainly not. God forbid. Which is hard because men aren't very funny. So you really have to express a lot of your funny.

But it turns out that Robbie does like that about her. He does like, and he's not like other boys, but he does it in a condescending way where he's like, you're mad. You're such a nutter, but I love it. Yes. He does call her that a lot. Yeah. I don't know how much I'd love that. Yeah. Actually, if someone was like,

she's just nuts, but I love her. I think I'd be a bit like, excuse me. I feel like that's how a lot of boomer husbands talk about their wives. They're like this broad Like you're just like Jesus If I hadn't married I should be in the crazy house I really did like that. That is like a very boomer dad kind of post where you're like easy

Say something nice like you've been married for 40 fucking years like But yeah, I I he does do that. He also, what is the name of the song he writes about her? Bitch in a uniform. You're like, oh yeah. I was like, do you like her? Do you like her? Well, this was after she was classist.

So like, not that excuses. That's the tricky thing with George. I guess that was what I was trying to get at earlier, where it's like, I like her and it's hard to be too mad at her because she is canonically 14 years old. Right. And it feels weird at my large age to be like, I don't respect this fictional teenager.

This 14 year old just not got her shit together. But I do think like, yeah, she does catch shit sometimes, I think, deservedly. Yeah. Like, yeah. But it seems like the movie does sort of address that, just not in a, I don't know, I feel like it's because the goal, the end game goal for all of the young girls in the movie is to have a cute boyfriend.

The only way that like growing up is like addressed or the way that like, oh, she like addressed this like internalized classism or she like had to figure out like how to develop a better relationship with her parents or like whatever the sort of broad lesson is she's like rewarded quote unquote with boyfriend at the end. Which just feels a little, I don't know, of the time I guess. Yeah, and is not a good reward. No.

But maybe is when, actually is when you're horny and you're a teenager. I'm sure at the time it is, but yeah. I don't know, and then they're like, oh wait, we forgot about Ellen. She's dating Dave. Movie over. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Actually maybe Ellen wins in the end because she gets the funny guy. And Dave did seem like a nice young man. And he's I think like right to be hurt with how Georgia treats him. Yeah, she uses him and he finds out about it. Yeah.

It's like this is the life of a laugh. But there was a bit where it was like, treat him. Yeah, she uses him and he finds out about it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, this is the life of a lab. But there was a bit where it was like, I don't know. I just feel like he'll know soon that men will use women. So it's fine. He'll be fine. He'll be fine. Yeah.

Well, especially the way he's like, he talks about, what does he call? He's like the- Nunga Nungas. Nunga Nungas. Yeah, that's one of the names of the books. It's like, knocked out by my Nunga Nungas. That was the one I got as a present was knocked out by my Nunga Nungas. Nunga Nungas. Yeah, that's one of the names of the books. It's like, knocked out by my Nunga Nungas. That was the one I got as a present was knocked out by my Nunga Nungas.

I like that you started there. That's where I started. I will say that I was looking at- And I was like, this is fab. Cause they say fab a lot. I was looking at the list of book titles and Louise Renison really committed to having the most British titles possible.

Knocked Out by my Nunga Nungas. We don't say that. Dance, oh really? That's what I was supposed to say. No, that's what Dave calls breasts. Do you wanna explain why? Oh, because he's like, yeah, when you grab them and then let go, they go nunga nunga nunga.

Looks like the bounce, the reverb or something. Boing. Boing, they kind of go boing, okay. Then he ate my boy in trancers, startled by his furry shorts, lerve as a many-trousered thing. Are these my bazoomas I see before me? Yeah.

The titles go on. I stopped at some point, because it was, general vibe is she goes between, in the book, she goes between Robbie and Dave the Laugh. Oh. Because Dave the Laugh is her age and they do have a laugh, and George is funny, so they have a laugh together

and then Robbie's kind of not that funny, but he's very hot and in a band. So that's the kind of general vibe. But then they bought in a third love interest, Massimo, who's Italian. Wait, I remember him. Okay, so you remember Massimo. And he had a little purse that he carried around.

And I was like, I can't deal with a third love interest. I think that's when I checked out. I was like, it's either gonna be Robbie or Dave, but you can't bring in a third. I do feel like it is in a way, like having what's appealing about Georgia, especially when I was a kid, was like, it's very much like she is like a funny like normal

looking quote-unquote girl who So many boys want to date her and you're like, oh, of course, I'm gonna love that book That's that was my dream at the time. Yeah, I was like what if nothing about me changed and every hot boy I knew it's like I love like but you did have to change great. You did have to change. You had to do yoga, remember? It's true, it's true, it's true. It's not that simple. No, no, I had to get on the mat. I wish that this, I mean, there is obviously

a component of this movie that focuses on like the female friendship, but it's all in the context of they're talking about boys and they're talking about how to be more attractive to boys and it's all in service of the goal of getting a boyfriend. Yeah, they are close friends, except for Alan, they bully. Yeah, right, tragically. And then I think even the way the like parental dynamic and like relationship between Georgia

and her parents is framed is like, oh, my dad's so corny, but now that he's gone, I really miss him and I don't wanna have, I don't want my parents to split up. Meanwhile, my slag of a mom is over here having sex with someone else. Well, and also even like if Georgia was right, I mean, again, and just like, she's 14.

I get it, like you're 14, probably a lot of 14 year olds don't want their parents to split up. I know my, I didn't want my parents to, but then they did. And I was like, oh, that was so the right call. Wow. Oh, good going, you guys.

Oh, you know. You guys knew, cool. You're like, oh, we should have done this years ago. But I get that it's scary for kids when it happens. But yeah, it's like she's totally taking it out on her mom. And also her mom seems happier. Like her mom's going out, she has hobbies, she's with her friends.

Things that I don't, it's not implied she was really doing when her dad was around. I was like, Georgia, I think your mom might be happier without your dad. If you would have to accept that, she's like, I hate how my mom is wearing clothes she likes and having fun.

I miss when my dad was here and she was miserable. But she was miserable. No, they do love each other. They were snogging, she was really horny for her. It's true. It seems like her mom's just really horny, basically. Horny for life. She's horny for life.

Yeah. I don't know, but I just, yeah, that was like a weird, there is sort of like a paternalistic frame to how the parents are shown. But her dad also played by Alan Davies. Yeah, where do I know him from? Who is, do you watch QI here? No. No.

Sorry about that. Did you watch, oh my God, Jonathan Creek? Is that what itI here? No. No. Sorry about that. Did you watch, oh my God, Jonathan Creek? Is that what it's called? No. I never watched, okay, he's just like a really classic British comedian actor. Okay, I recognize him from something. And he was in these murder mysteries,

but he's just, yeah, he's like my dad, if you know what I mean. You know these people that you grow up with and it's like, yeah, I feel like I know him. I've never met him. I don't think I've met him. He's very charming. Yeah, he's got that kind of energy and everything.

Yeah, I mean, it's like her parents do love each other. I don't know, I don't know. It just feels weird. I mean, it's rare that you're allowed to break into your dad's work office to be like, I need my parents not to ball. So please send him home from his job. I mean, we can't, it's hard to do that. We can't accuse Georgia of not having narrative agency.

She literally said, bring him home. And it worked. And they were like, yes, we should bring him home and give him a raise. Yeah, yes. I don't know, just the movie and the book feel very just reflective of the times and not challenging any of the internalized misogyny and the focus on hetero romance and stuff like that.

Right, which a book of this time, I feel like it's like if it was part of the filmmaker or writer's intent to present that and then challenge it, that could be really useful for young girls, but that's obviously like, this is more of just like a reflecting the prejudices of the time, the person saying anything about it. It's, I think the success, I guess,

of like something like Mean Girls, which is like the comparison, right, of like 14, 15 year old girls that are trying to get a boyfriend. And then there's one like weird one. But like because they're supposed to all suck, it doesn't matter what they say because you know they're bad characters.

But then the problem is you're trying to like Georgia. Right, she's the right. And the problem is she's, yeah. It's like the Nickelodeon movie style is not built for the kind of character that Georgia is. I don't know. Yeah, I had a hard time with this one. Yeah, it's a tricky one.

Yeah, it's just really hard to deal with. She gets pushed into a bush by this man. I mean, Missy, she's paid this man to go around his house to snog him. And then he's. Yeah, that was consensual. That was consensual. And that's fine. That's the kind of sex work. I was wondering if she does pay him.

We don't see money exchanged on screen. Maybe maybe it's a voluntary service. Maybe he just does it because he he wants to snog or he's a socialist. He's 14 years old. Probably best not to overthink it. Oh, I think he can't do it. It's a consensual encounter. But maybe he just offers it voluntarily. I don't know for sure. Either way, yeah, like that is, you know, two consenting parties, snogging. But then he does surprise kiss her. And push her into a bush. He assaults her.

He assaults her, and people are not sympathetic about it. No, and then her best friend calls her basically, the next thing was Jazz, Jazz is so mean to her. Yeah, Jazz is like, well, your knickers were just up. They were too big. They were too big. My grandma wears knickers like that. And I was like, wait.

And I was like, that's upsetting, because I feel like also I remember being a teenager and that sort of thing may be kind of happening and people not being sympathetic. Cause it is your fault. I mean, again, very reflective of the time. There's also something that I'm glad the movie leaves out, but that is present in the book where she has this cousin

who comes to visit every now and then. And then like, Oh yes! I'd forgotten about the cousin. Wow, you really do broadcast stuff, don't you? in the book where she has this cousin who comes to visit every now and then. And then like. Oh yes. Oh I'd forgotten about the cousin. Whoa and you really do blow out stuff don't you? So like the cousin is like a boy her age

but he's like incestually like groping her leg and I think tries to kiss her. And like just like really upsetting troubling things. Again the movie leaves this out but again but also the book doesn't like, she's just like, well, that was weird. I don't wanna hang out with that cousin anymore. A very like, you know, 14 year old way to process that.

But probably honestly how I process it now. If you honestly, if that happened, I'd be like, well, I'm gonna hang out less with my cousin. Yeah, for sure. It's just, I don't know, the book and the movie touch on things that aren't equipped to really handle thoughtfully. That it doesn't handle. Right.

Yeah. And I also read that Louise Renison Yeah. Started as an edgy standup and it feels like she just sort of adapted that style to her 14 year old's voice, which didn't work for us at the time. Oh, she started as a stand up.

Yeah, and then I guess she wrote these books in her 40s. Like she didn't start as a youth writer. So it's like, I see what she's going for and definitely worked for us at the time. This comedy doesn't work out. I'm gonna write inappropriate books for 14 year olds. Who famously like don't read now, cause they're on TikTok.

Publishing is very famously not a well paid. No, not a livable gig. Something that the movie does, and I think the book does to a slightly more extent is like commentary from Georgia talking about how like unoriginal, uncreative, how dim boys are, how they're losers who she generally doesn't want. And there's like, I think one extra boy that she dates for a little while in the book that's

not in the movie, but she's always trying to avoid him because she's like, I don't even know if I like him, but it's nice to have a boyfriend because that's what society tells me I should have. So, you know, there's things like that, but I do like that she's often like ragging on boys. Yeah, and also the boys aren't very fully formed. I mean, they're very, they're underdeveloped. Yeah. Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?

I wanted to just touch really quick on how they, the Lindsay character. Yes. Because they are, I felt like, is there a phrase for this where it was like, the movie was extremely focused on her body. There was literally like a closeup of her boobs. And because you're seeing, I think,

her body from like George's perspective of like she's hyper-focused on. So it is the female gaze, but it's still not great. The female gaze is very judgmental. Yes, yes. Which it can be. That, absolutely. And like, that's sort of how I, like, I don't love how they treat Lindsay at the beginning, where they just sort of say she's mean, but they hyper fixate on her body but then it turns out like the the judgment they're projecting

on her turns out to be true and she is mean and I feel like it's yeah like they just have no these girls have no empathy for each other whatsoever which can be true with teens but I'm like it just made me really, especially at the end when Lindsay comes back and does the whole like, you're a bitch and he's my boyfriend and blah, blah, blah. Just not even acting like a person, I don't know. Oh, and then they humiliate her by ripping out the silicone bra and the chicken shirt. She literally is having a Carrie moment,

but the music is like, do, do, do, do, do. Yeah, they're like, she wears faked, you shouldn't reach into people's bras. No, that's assault. That is assault. And it's also like, do, do, do, do, do, do. Yeah, they're like, she wears fakes. You shouldn't reach into people's bras. No, that's assault. That is assault. And it's also like, I don't know. And Lynn's having a bad time anyway, because she's already at her birthday

when no one's at the club. I know. And also, What Town has two clubs that are both free that allow 14 year olds. on a Friday night to let two teenagers hire them out instead. I was like, this is not realistic. I just thought that character was so uneven in the way she was treated,

especially because, I don't know, being a teen without titties in 2008, there would be pressure to, I remember wearing padded bras in the 2000s because I didn't wanna get made fun of for having small boobs. There's no way to win. There's no way to win. There's no way to win.

And the fact that they are like extremely judgmental for her, which for what I'm, they make it seem like, I feel like it's a very common internalized misogyny thing. They project that she is like vain and not that they're, that like the oppressive ways that women's bodies are viewed applies to them, but not to Lindsay because they don't like her. And it's just like, well, no,

but then Lindsay turns out to be awful. And you're like, oh my goodness. But she does hit her with her hockey sticks. Right, well, it's one like. That's true. I was about to explain that. But maybe they should have done that bit first so we know she's bad already.

Well, because the thing is like, if she is mean and mean to them, that is a great reason not to like her. Yes. But if someone spied on me through my house, maybe I would hit them up with all these things. And it's like her being mean is separate from her, like, you know, succumbing to societal pressure to try to be attractive. But that's, I think, a larger reason why they don't like her versus like that she's mean. Yeah it seems that way. Yeah they don't like her yeah because

she's the hot one right? Yeah it's and it's also like yeah it's it's fine to imply that they don't like her because she's mean but it just doesn't I don't know it just doesn't really feel like the whole story and also it's like I don't know there's grown-ups made this movie like I'm like like you can like you've got to remember all the time the two men there's two American men people in their 40s made this whole thing and so it was like so it's like yeah it is I feel like there is like a level of authenticity of like I'm sure we all have examples of like whether it was happening to you or coming from you like resenting other girls for their body,

especially at this age. I remember being really jealous of, and resentful in some ways, of girls who were more developed than I was. It's a fine thing to reflect, but again, it's like they just show it, and they're like, and that's how the world is. And there's no, I don't know.

Not that it needed to be like a total Disney movie of like, I'm sorry I was mean to you about your boobs or whatever the fuck. But like, it just is presented very like, yep, Lindsay's horrible and so is her slaggy body. Like it just feels like it's all included. And she deserves to be humiliated at the end. And Georgia deserves to have the reward

of a cute boyfriend. And also a really huge party. Like it doesn't imply that Georgia is particularly popular. No. And there's hundreds of people there. And no one goes to Lindsay's party. And I was like, I don't see it. Like what?

No. She did all this internal work and everyone watched from a distance. It was like, you got really good with yoga. So now we'll come to your party? If I was Ellen, I wouldn't even show up. Yeah, exactly. Like, you've never said a nice thing to me.

Yeah, you've been bullying me the whole movie. Well, you have to remember that there are so many adults at this party, including both of her parents. And her grandparents. And her grandparents. Seemingly are there. And the interior decorator, which, by the way, Jem, who is like the interior decorator, is like, hello, I'm an interior decorator, which by the way, Jem who is like the interior decorator is like,

hello, I'm an interior decorator. Obviously I'm gay and it's like, okay. That was wild where it was like, so she was like, no, don't have an affair with Jem. And everyone, he was like, hello. And it was like, okay, but he's not actually said hello like that the whole time. So we didn't know that.

Literally, like it was just, I was like, was this, did people see this in 2008 and be like, wow, representation is so important. Like, what the fuck am I watching? I didn't even know that I knew he was an interior decorator. I thought he was a builder. Yeah, right. Like, not that that means anything. I need to be clear. Of course. The interior decorator can come in all sexualities. She calls him a builder the whole time

and then he's like... Why would you lie about that? And also, if he is an interior decorator, nothing about the house changes. What did he do? He's a bad one. He takes off his shirt and just sort of looks at the walls. Yeah. What's the alien doing? What is he? I feel like a one when he's like fixing a light bulb. And then yeah they just go out dancing all the time. That's what I mean when I say okay. What you don't do with your builder slash to do your decoration. To bring him back to Boeing parents. That's exactly what it is. Like there if you like think about what they just always do the goofiest thing possible in this scene builder slash interior decor. To bring it back to Boeing parents. That's exactly what it is. If you think about it, they just always do the goofiest thing possible in this scene

that's the most embarrassing. But if you think about, well, what are they actually doing? The answer is, I have no fucking idea what they're doing. They're just, they were born to embarrass Georgia. That's all they do. Yeah. Yeah. My last thing, and we've already touched on this, but it's just like yet another example

of a coming of age movie about teen girls that center white middle class to upper middle class characters. And that's so many of movies of this ilk. Yeah. And this is yet another entry into that canon. So. But Krishna, you're not Bandelai Beckham.

So that's weird that that. I know. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, the takeaway, skip this movie and watch Bendy like Beckham instead. Honestly, yeah. And I don't think that the director would disagree with that. I think she would probably be like,

no, definitely that one. That one. I mean, I find it funny, but in a painful way. Yes. There were parts I had to. It's like one of the movies that I understand why people liked it at the time, but it's such a product of its time

and there's so many better alternatives that I wouldn't be like. Even for nostalgia, I feel like it wasn't. It wasn't great. It was bad nostalgia. It was triggering. It really was. Because it was like, oh, I did live this, but I wouldn't great, no. It was bad nostalgia. It was triggering. It really was. Because it was like, oh, I did live this,

but I wouldn't want, I have no desire to relive my teenage years. Yeah, nostalgia culture is wild in that way, where you're like, oh yeah, I really miss when people would bully you for fucking anything. I mean, not that that's not true now, but it's different now. It's different.

Anyways, yeah. This movie does pass the Bechel test, but not very much. They're mostly talking about boys. I think it mainly passes when they're talking about Angus or what they think. But not full frontal snogging. Or when they're judging other women. Right, I was just like when they're judging each other's bodies. I think that whole like scene where they're passing around the notes of like

judging each other's bodies. And they score each other's bodies out of 10. Oh, you're demented. OK, don't even do that with me, Fred. I hope I didn't do that, but that's insane. No, I definitely did not do that. I remember boys doing that to girls. God, yeah, I'll never forget seventh grade.

There was like a list going around, and it accidentally came to my desk of like, the boys were ranking girls by butt. And I remembered being like, I'm in the middle just coast just coast yeah but it was like a horrible but I and I know that like young women especially that time word you know condition to judge each other too but that seemed was so weird it passes the Bechdel test but it's just being like here's what's ugly about you yeah you're like yeah your nose gets a four out of

ten yeah that's what she's so insecure about. I know, I kind of didn't forgive Jazz for that. I was like, that was dark. You shouldn't have done that. So yeah, it does pass the Bechdel test, but most of the conversations, either the context or the subtext is still about boys and being attractive to boys and stuff like that. So it's like almost a not pass, honestly.

Spiritually, I don't feel like it passes. Yeah. Yeah. As far as our nipple scale, though, where we rate the movie based on a scale of 0 to 5 nipples, examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I'm going to give it like, I'll say like a 1, somewhere between like a 1.5 and a 2, maybe like, I guess, 1.75,

just because it is about young girls and they are friends that are like mostly on good terms with each other, except for when they're bullying Ellen or they're, you know, fighting over a boy. Except for they're being horrible to each other. Yeah. It is definitely about young girls.

But it is very much. Okay, maybe one? Yeah, I'll go with 1.5, I think. Okay, 1.5. I'll give all my nipples to Angus the cat, obviously. Okay. I'd love to hear it. I'll meet you at 1.5.

And it's partially out of my love for Gurinder Chhada's other work. And it was really nice reading about how the young actors on set learned a lot from her and felt empowered by watching a woman direct a movie, which happened even less then than it did now, and particularly a woman of color. And there are things to love about,

but I like the behind the scenes story way more than I like the actual product. It's just so of its time. It feels really studio workshopped to death. And yeah, justice for Ellen. So I'll go 1.5 and I'll also give them to Angus. So now he has three. Well, he's, cats have eight nipples.

Oh wait. How did you, Jamie, cat facts. Well, I haven't, to be fair, I have not talked about cat facts with Caitlin in a very long time. I count my own cat's nipples and I only see six. Well, some of them do only have six. Okay.

But some of them have eight. Casper only has six. Wow. I know. Special. Unless he's got some spare tires. Maybe they're hidden. Some of them I eight. Casper only has six. Wow. I know. Special. Unless he's got some spare tires. Maybe they're hidden. Some of them I think are kind of smaller than the others.

His are like very out. It's weird. Oh, yeah. Yeah, like you're not even using these things. What are you doing? I also quickly want to say, to be clear, the hetero girls liking boys is not inherently bad. No, no.

It's just that like the way it's framed in this movie and also all the extra stuff of them being homophobic and fat phobic and all that kind of stuff. It's just, it could have been framed very differently or thought more thoughtfully. And I think it's like just the thing that we talk about a lot in movies like this where it's not even like, of course, like, you know, most kids that age are becoming interested in someone. I mean, this is very heteronormative. But also they usually have a hobby or like another interest or like something

that they bond over that isn't just talking about each other. Like it seems like their whole friendship is predicated on judging each other and trying to get boys where it's like, I'm sure like, like I did that with my friends, but we also like loved watching TV together. Like we did other things. I'd play soccer with my friends.

Yeah. All these things. So yeah. Anyway. Okay. What's your nipple rating? I think 1.5 is fair. Yeah.

Yeah. One, one, one and a half nipples and maybe I'm going to give them to Jem's boyfriend. Oh, wait. Oh yeah. We don't learn his name, but he owns. One and a half nipples. And maybe I'm gonna give them to Jem's boyfriend. Oh, wait. Oh yeah, we don't learn his name, but he owns. No, but he's a gay guy who owns a nightclub in Eastbourne, which is actually incredibly progressive for 2008. I'm surprised that there was,

and he seems like he's a man of color. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so I'm surprised that there's a man of color, a queer man of color who owns a nightclub in Eastbourne in 2008, who was willing to rent it out to a 15 year old. I was like, maybe the business is struggling if he had to rent it out to a 15 year old. But I'm like, yeah, you, yeah, you're,

there's a lot of representation in one character. Is this a very like conservative area? Yeah, it's just like full of old people. Yeah. I don't know. So I so I just I love that for him. He's got he lives by the sea with his boyfriend. I'm the nightclub. He's a nightclub owner. They're doing really well for themselves. Aspirational. Yeah. Kate thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. Where can we find you online? Where can we follow you? Kate Checker, C-H-E-K-A, Instagram. That's it, basically.

Oh, you think? Beautiful, and thanks for coming on and come back any time. Thank you for having me. Caitlin from the future popping in here because our memory card ran out of storage before we could do plugs. So I'm doing everyone's plugs, starting with our guest,

Kate Checker, a big thanks to her once again for joining us on this episode. She has a great solo show called A Messiah Comes which she is doing at Soho Theatre in London on January 16th, 17th, and 18th. Tickets are available at the Soho Theatre website. We'll include the link in the description of this episode. She's also doing a UK tour of this show in addition to the ones in London and you can find details about that at her website katecheca.co.uk. You can follow Kate on Instagram at KateCheca and you can follow us the Bechtelcast on Instagram, you can subscribe to our Patreon aka matri on where you get two bonus episodes every month plus access to the back catalog which is full of many iconic themes and episodes all for $5 a month at patreon.com slash Bechdel cast. That's the best way to support

the show as well as coming to the live shows and buying tickets to the live streams So once again, if you go to link tree slash Bechtelcast you can find information about our upcoming shows in January in Los Angeles San Francisco and Portland all of the details are on our link tree So hope to see you there check out Kate's shows in the UK, and we'll be back next week for another episode. Bye bye! The Bechtel cast is a production of iHeart Media, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrasensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks

to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.bechtelcast. Hey, it's Nikki Glaser. So I hosted the Golden Globes at Hollywood's biggest party. Honestly, you've probably seen all the headlines this week, but like any good party, there's a lot of wild stuff that goes down behind the scenes that you don't know about. And since I hosted the Golden Globes, I'm letting my podcast listeners, my besties, in on all the behind the scenes tea. Stuff that didn't make it to the live TV taping, what went down in rehearsals, who said what at the after party.

You're going to hear it all. Listen to the Nikki Glaser podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And this January, we're going to go on the road to beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada to cover the Consumer Electronics Show, tech's biggest conference. Better Offline CES coverage won't be the usual rundown of the hottest gadgets or biggest trends, but an unvarnished look at what the tech industry plans to sell or do to you in

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Hey y'all, I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, host of Therapy for Black Girls. This January, join me for our third annual January Jump Start series. Starting January 1st, we'll have inspiring conversations to give you a hand in kickstarting your personal growth. If you've been holding back or playing small, this is your all-access pass to step fully into the possibilities of the new year. This is the therapy for Black girls starting on January 1st on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.