The Bechdel Cast - Appropriate Behavior with Melody Kamali

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

This week, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Melody Kamali discuss Appropriate Behavior (2014). and at the end of the episode, they're going to be okay! Follow Melody on Instagram at @melodykamali  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The patriarchy's effing vast Start changing it with the Beckdale cast Jamie I'm breaking up with you And giving you back the dildo you gave me Okay, I don't care, or do I? Or do I? I think you do.

Well, wait till you see me hanging out with Chekhov's co-worker. That'll show you. The hair model. Yes, Chekhov's hair model. famously. Welcome. Welcome to the Bechtel cast. Perfect intro, no notes. Yes, thank you so much. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante. This is the Bechal cast, our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point. And it's

actually the origins of which are particularly relevant to today's movie. Today's movie. Today's movie is Appropriate Behavior 2014 written and directed by Desire Acovan. But Jamie, tell us what the Bechtel test is. Yeah, I guess we should do a full definition today because it is very relevant. The Bexel test is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, friend of the show. Our best friend. I wonder if she remembers us. The test is originally not intended to be a famous media.

Patrick, it was written as a one-off joke in Alison Bechtel's iconic comics collection, Dikes to Watch Out for in the 1980s. The specific context of the original joke was that two women never spoke to each other in a movie. And the context of it was because Alison Bechtel and her friends wanted to see queer romance between women and non-binary people in movies. And there wasn't any. That's very relevant to what we're talking about today. eventually on a longer timeline it was sort of transformed into a more generic media metric. The version of the test we use requires that two characters of marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something other than a man for more than two meaningful lines of dialogue.

And we're not going to have an issue with that today. Don't you worry. I think that the be actually will not be coming up very much from here on out, but it is interacting with the origin in a kind of fun way. Right, because the idea was that the characters in Dikes to Watch Out for would, if they saw two women speaking to each other in a movie about something other than a man, the characters could sort of like ship those two women together. What a time. In their imaginations.

What a time. It's like women spoke to each other. They have to be in love. Like we also shout out to the co-creator because it often called the Bechtel Wallace test, Liz Wallace co-created the test with Allison Bechtel, and we learned during our interview with Allison Bechtel that they met at a karate class and didn't keep in touch. So I'm curious if Liz Wallace is even aware of this legacy. We should try to reach out to her. Yeah, we have to start going to karate classes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear that's a great way to meet her.

Indeed. So we're talking about appropriate behavior, and we have a wonderful returning guest with us today. She is a podcast producer, comedian, and you remember her from our episode on Blue Crush. It's Melody Kamali. What's up? Salam. Aloha, Darud. Thanks for having me back. Oh, my gosh. That's Farsi, too. Hell yeah. I think I, last time I was here, you just come off your recording with Alison Bechtel. Yeah, that's right. And you guys were riding high from that. I think she remembers you. And if anything, maybe just for like the Google alerts, the crossover in. Yeah, if she has Google alerts on, she probably hates to see us coming. Well, welcome back.

Thank you for having me. Really pick the most relevant film possible as a bisexual, Iranian-American. I'm really excited to dive in. Yeah, tell us about your relationship with this. This, too much of a relationship with this movie. I did. I used to host a co-host a podcast called Diking Out. We had Desirey Akvon on the podcast. And we, it was like the peak of quarantine. And it was like just as like a lot of protests were breaking out. It was just like a very tense weird time with the pandemic. And we asked her because we were fans of her. And she kind of was like, why do you like I'm not promoting anything right now. This like I'm not in the middle. of any project. I'm kind of sitting in my apartment just like everyone else. I'm like,

perfect. Let's get intimate. And we tried to make it comfortable with her. And we all just ended up drinking in our little quarantines together on the podcast. I am horrified thinking about it. I haven't listened back to it ever. It's out there. But we do bond over just all the parallels we had because not only are we bisexual running Americans with immigrant parents, but we also like in her show the bisexual I think thought we were a lesbian first and then got like hetero curious and explored that so just so many and more parallels come up in that conversation it's like a weird version of myself like a successful version of myself I've been watching from afar and admiring I love her work she directs a lot of like awesome film and TV episodes a lot of hacks episodes

you'll see her name pop up. I just think she's so cool. Yeah. And yeah, that's the relationship. Nice. So did you see this movie when it first came out? Oh, sorry. Yeah.

I remember at the time everyone was talking about this like Persian Lina Dunham was what I was seeing online. Oh, wow. Very 2014. Yes, exactly. Like this had just come out. Like some film festival, it won a best screenplay award at something. Some festival is very interested in it because there's representation now and it's so easy to connect. I was able to just interview her as a big fan of her.

But back then it was like there was so much still like shrouded in mystery. Like are there other voices like mine out there? And I was just so excited to find out she existed and bought it on iTunes or something and watched it on my little Macbook. I loved it. I loved Lena Dunham at the time. I think I was just obsessively like searching for stuff on her around post girls era. And then I think this movie also got Desire Ackhavan apart on girls. Yes, that's right.

Yeah, she had like a small arc. Yeah, she was one of the writers that it was like her corporate job or something, I remember, in girls. Yeah, I had to like go back and like rewatch a few scenes on YouTube, but I was like, yes, that is her. And I think it's because Lena Dunham saw this movie and was. was like, oh, we have the same vibe. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. What do we call that vibe?

I don't know. It feels very. I'm excited to dig into it because it feels very like specifically this was a, I don't know. I feel like the simplest is like difficult protagonist or like women actually not being perfect on screen and acting messy in a way that like, I don't know, if I put my 2014 brain in, people like could not tolerate it. Like, it was interesting looking back at like some of the reviews of this movie and also because it felt so in conversation with girls and Lena Dunham's new book came out.

And so everyone is sort of talking about it. It's just like the way that these these characters are very prevalent and also received in a weird way. I don't know. It was interesting to like go back there. Yeah. I kept trying to put myself in the mindset because at the time it was like, whoa, pioneer alert. Like, yeah. They are unlikable.

They're fucking up big time. Well, I think part of it is that they're like horny sexually liberated women and people don't like that. And they like use humor to deflect and people don't like it when women are funny. I was also thinking because it's like at the end of the day, even though like Shereen is a mess. Like you do love her. But I think that people also have like a real issue with watching a character who is a woman act kind of selfishly. I think that people still like to this day really struggle with a woman not acting in some like self-sacrificing way. And yeah, in a way that I mean, I don't know.

It's like if we're going into the whole like girls thing, why do people hate characters like Shireen and Hanahovath? but they love Don Draper, that whole sort of line of discussion of like men acting selfishly is iconic and amazing. And women acting selfishly inspires at the time a million like cruel takedowns in essay form because that was what 2014 was about. I just remember self-absorbed, self-absorbed like everywhere that term. And it was like, or you know, agency. I don't know.

Yeah, that's so funny. I'm rewatching Mad Men right now. that is the perfect comparison. I mean, this show absolutely rocks, but you're just like, uh... Yeah, we didn't... To this day, some would say we have not gotten the chance to be selfish assholes. It's almost like there are double standards for men and women? Have you explored that?

Wait, we should talk about that on the show. Wait, okay. For the first time. Hold on. Finally, after all these years. Jamie, what is your relationships, slash history with this movie? I had not seen this movie, but I do consider myself,

I'm just going to try this, a Desirey Acavan, Desirey Acafan. Let's try to create a community name. But I mean, I think she's so cool. Yeah, I've been wanting to see this for a long time. I saw her, I think, second movie, the Miseducation of Cameron Post, which is about Chloe Grace Moratz getting sent to a gay conversion camp that I thought was really good.

And I'd seen her show the bisexual, but for some reason I just hadn't seen this. And her, I don't know. I admire her a lot. I want to, first of all, Melody, I want to find that podcast episode. Yeah, let me know. I want to hear more interviews with her because it's so cool that she has been able to, like, create such a cool career for herself. and I just think it's really cool. And this movie in particular,

I was pleasantly surprised by so much about it. And also that it was like kind of challenging me to turn on this character. And I was like, I will not. I will not turn on my good friend Shereen, even if she, well, we'll talk about what she gets up to. But I just loved this queer woman being messy. It's great. It's perfect.

For sure. So, yeah, it was. a really fun first watch. Yeah. Caitlin, what about you? I had not seen this movie before, nor did I know about it. I didn't know about it until Melody, you and I were talking about potential movies for you to come on and cover, and you sent me, I don't remember if you sent me a trailer for this or if you just mentioned it, but then I watched the trailer. And I was like, oh my gosh, this seems like so much fun. I would love to, I was like, even if we don't, cover this movie, I'll just watch it anyway because it seems like such a fun movie.

It doesn't seem like people, given like how, I don't know, people should be talking about this movie more. Yeah. Right. I think it's not very well known. I was surprised that you weren't aware of it when I emailed you the title, like I assumed you were and the more people I talk about it to haven't seen it. The good news, if you're a listener and have not yet seen the movie, it is.

very easy to stream. It is streaming for free in many places. So if you haven't seen it, get your shit together. It's accessible. Yeah. So yeah, watched it for the first time to prep for this. I really enjoyed it. I also love that it's only an hour and 21 minutes long. Right. Please more movies like this. But yeah, I thought it was fun. I'm excited to talk about it. yeah, should we take a quick break and then we'll get into the recap? Let's do it. In Montreal and Osiaga, with four nights at residents in downtown Montreal, flights from Porter Airlines, two weekend gold tickets, and $1,000 of cash.

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after a breakup from her now ex-girlfriend Maxine, played by Rebels. Rebecca Henderson, including a strap-on that Shereen had gifted her when they were still together, but Maxine makes Shereen take it back. That makes it seem like it's going to be a huge plot point. It's not. It's just sort of dildo for the sake of dildo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

And that's beautiful. There is a scene later on where Shereen finally, because right after this, she throws it away, but then immediately takes it back out of the trash. And then later on, she throws it away for good, perhaps signaling that she's moving on from the breakup, but I'm getting ahead of myself. So then Shereen meets up with her friend Crystal to start trying to process the breakup

because Shereen really wants to get back together with Maxine. Though there is mention of their sex life sputtering out pretty quickly, like soon after they got together. And then we flash back to Shereen and Maxine trying to do some sexy role-playing, but Maxine isn't really into it. She says she's too vanilla. We'll get a bunch of flashbacks about their relationship over the course of this movie. Yes.

Back to the present, Shereen visits her family. We meet her mom and dad and urologist brother Ali. played by... Oh my God. Mr. Hadi himself. Yes. Oh my God. Played by Arienne Moyad, who I recognize from Succession is the main thing I know him from.

Yes. Love him in that. Oh, he's such a little bitch in Succession. I guess he is also such a little bitch in this movie. Yeah. He's really good at that, I guess. Yeah. We also meet his girlfriend Lely.

And Shireen and her brother, Ali, have a pretty contentious relationship. They're always making jabs at each other and judge. each other for their life choices and Shereen's also judging Lely. Yeah, she makes a few jabs at their jobs. They're both doctors, but she's just like, you're losers. And then Ali retorts by saying that Shereen is wasting her master's degree in journalism. I loved the sibling specific of like masking disdain for your sibling with concern of being a like I'm really worried about her. She's such a fucking loser. And then like it's it's great. Yeah. The subtext is she's making me look bad by being related to me. And also at the same time like it feels like they're

both kind of asking like tacitly asking their parents to be like, please say I'm your favorite. I'm the good kid. I'm the good kid. It's a very Persian, very sibling universal dynamic, but it's something so Persian about the masked concern. and being like, I am the one that you trust. I am the golden child, but crazy of her to do it when she's working against a doctor as an artist type because that is a very real dynamic in Persian families. I am the artist loser and constantly being compared to siblings, cousins, et cetera, who went the doctor, lawyer, Persian route.

Sure. Yeah, because Shereen, she was a journalist slash writer. and then she's pivoting. She wants to pivot careers and we're about to get to what she kind of pivots to because she interviews for a job with this guy named Ken. Pete Hornberger Jump Scare. Yes, played by Scott Asdet of 30 Rock fame

for a job that is teaching an after-school filmmaking class to teens or what Shereen thinks will be teens. he offers her the job, so that's her new job now. Meanwhile, Shereen is scheming ways to bump into Maxine, including trying to work the same shift as Maxine at the local food co-op. She tries to sleep her way to the top of the co-op, which is a very funny scene. I kind of wish that scene went on a little longer, because you don't really get the reaction of the co-op lady,

but she's like, Shereen's like unbuttoning her blouse being like, just let me work the shifts I want. I was assuming it was the Park Slope food co-op. There's an episode of Broad City where Abby and Alana are switching roles because like Abby can't work her shift at that co-op. And like she had, they train each other and each other's mannerisms and like switch roles for the day

so she can work the ship for her. I don't know. Anyways, the way they portraying. that same character in Broad City. It was like a very similar portrayal of this like no nonsense like kind of butch like, what do you want from me, uh, manager of the park slope co-op. And I'm like, what is going on there? I want to, what is this trope?

I do like something seemingly innocuous being run like the Navy. That will usually work for me. Yeah. As a trope. Yeah. Okay. So then Shereen's parents. and brother help her move into a new apartment in Brooklyn.

And it's starting to become clear that perhaps they do not know about Shereen's relationship with Maxine or perhaps even that Shereen likes women. And I was kind of taken off guard that her brother also didn't seem to know because every, I mean, it's like everyone, it's like, where's your boyfriend? Where's your boyfriend? And I was like, oh, her brother also doesn't know. So they're not close. It doesn't seem like it.

Yeah. We cut to Shereen at her new teaching job. And again, she thought she would be teaching teenagers, but it turns out to be like five-year-olds, and they're all boys, and they're all very unruly and chaotic, and she's in way over her head, and she's trying to teach them filmmaking and, like, frame rates and stuff like that, and they're just, like, causing havoc.

They're just like poop, poop, poop, fart, poop. Then we flash back to Shereen and Maxine meeting for the first time at a New Year's Eve party. They bond over both being haters and just hating a lot of things. And then they start making out within minutes of meeting. Sometime later, Shereen invites Maxine to a Persian New Year party. And it is confirmed here that Shereen's family does not know that she's bisexual. She mentions that gay people are stoned to death in Iran where her entire family comes from, so she is reluctant to come out to her family.

I just want to backtrack really quick too. I think that the scene where Shereen first meets Maxine, their meet cute, is so well written because you can tell you're like, oh, I can see why this is appealing. And this relationship is so clearly doomed from moment one. Right. I've never seen that dynamic written quite so, like, real in a way that you're like, oh, these two are bad for each other. They're like, wait, you're toxic in negative two? You're like, no, guys, no, it's never going to work out. That was well done. Yeah, but they get together. Nonetheless. And Maxine goes with Shereen to this Persian New Year's party and meets her family,

but Maxine has to pretend to just be Shereen's platonic friend and not her girlfriend. Back in the present, Shereen is on OKCupid looking for a post-breakup distraction slash rebound. She meets a man.

And this man cracked me up because he's like, I'm a stand-up comedian slash folk musician. He's like, comedy shouldn't be mean. It should be not. Nice. She's like, right.

Which I agree with, but he was so goofy. I agree with like now, but in 2014, it was like, standup was having a boom. Like, it was just like, you know, comedy. I don't know. It's like, there was a jadedness that he was, like, speaking to that I didn't think was there at the time in the comedy scene. Well, I was wondering. I was like, when was the height of, like, roast shows? Because I wonder if it was, like, round then.

They were encroaching on that time. I'm mid-20. Yeah. Well, because it's like also 2014 would have been like peak Louis C.K. Oh, geez. As well. True. Not to, sorry to invoke.

Yeah. This is normally a safe space, but that was who, because I was also like, yeah, where was comedy at? You're like, it kind of a weird, weird place. Yeah. You sure was. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyway, so she goes on this date with this guy. They hook up, but it's nothing special. especially compared to the flashback where Shereen and Maxine are being super intimate, they're getting stoned together. They're being transphobic together. Yeah, we'll talk about. We'll get to that. That was the thing that kept taking me out of it, right?

Because it keeps happening. Yeah, several times. It's also in this scene when they're stoned together that Maxine tells a story that's ablest. So it's not perfect. Yeah. Maxine is not perfect. No. And it's, it's tricky because it's one of those things where it's like, you have to, again,

like you have to try to put yourself in your brain 10 years ago, which is a weird amount of time to regress to and be like, is this meant to be making a point about how this character is unlikable? Or is this just how people felt comfortable talking at the time? And I think it is the last one. I agree. Yeah. From today, brain, it's like, well, Maxine needs to go on a gender journey.

Like, Maxine has some things to explore. internalized issues yeah yeah yeah yeah and then they also talk about how maxine hates sex in the city and then they talk about lord of the rings so speaking to the bechtel test they're talking about lots of stuff they're loving and then after all of this they share that they are falling in love with each other we cut to shereen showing up at a meeting for a queer advocacy group that Maxine is at because Shereen's like again trying to bump into Maxine and she is not pleased to see Shereen. So Shereen tries to make Maxine jealous by asking the leader of the group, this woman named Sasha, out for a drink. This scene I'm excited to talk about it is there's so much

going on in this scene. Oh my God. The the man in the background. There's a very serious issue being disgust in the sex of the whole right which is like we'll talk but like that's that's a real thing and like i just thought that scene was so fascinating because she's just being sherey's being an absolute menace meanwhile there's like a very i would imagine at the time and still under discussed issue around how queer people are demonized by the law and you're just like there's so much happening here right it was wild wild and i feel like his story is that to play as a joke within the scene. I don't know.

Or at least that's how I kind of felt about it. But I don't know. I'd be curious. I don't know. I think I ended up kind of giving the scene the benefit of the doubt. And it's just like an incredibly, it felt messy in a way that was like intentional to me. But I guess if pressed,

I couldn't tell you exactly what the intent was. So I don't know. I thought it was to like bring out just how much of a menace and like selfish person she was being. to have that against her. Right. Because she's like blowing past this man telling this story. Really traumatic. Yeah, that was, this was the scene where I was like, oh, that, like, I did appreciate how

hard in some sequences Desirey Akhen seems to want to challenge you to turn on Shereen. Because this scene, I think, is as close as I got to being like, fucking egg. What are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Because, so she asks Sasha. out for a drink. Sasha agrees because she's put on the spot, but their little date is quite awkward

and Sasha politely declines when Shereen invites her back to Shereen's place. Yeah. Meanwhile, Shereen is struggling at work trying to teach these rambunctious five-year-old boys how to make a movie. And she meets her colleague, this woman named Tibet, who is teaching the advanced filmmaking class. All the students there are girls, and they are way better behaved and more artistically inclined than all of Shereen's students.

We flash back to Shereen's parents visiting her and Maxine at their shared one-bedroom apartment. And her dad, Shereen's dad, is like, why is there only one bed if the two of you live here? And Shereen is like, um, it's European and trendy. And also it saves us a lot of money. And her parents maybe believe it. I'm not sure. But Maxine is not happy about this. Shereen not being out to her parents and them not knowing about her relationship with

Maxine is really weighing on Maxine. Yeah. Back in the present, Shereen meets a couple at a bar who are looking for a third. And so Shereen goes home with them and they start having a threesome. But Shereen gets in her head and the mood kind of dies and Shereen leaves. And also the guy sucks. This motherfucker.

Yeah, I hated him. The guy has an aura of menace and sinister. Yes. Yeah. Very sinister. One of the many, like, interesting little episodic moments because these characters do not return. And you're just like, wonder, hope she's okay. Hope she's okay with her menacing husband wherever she is.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. I hope she's able to. I forget their names. Marie, I think, is her name. Yeah. The woman in that couple.

Yeah. Hopefully Marie escapes. Yeah. But then we flash back to Shereen and Maxine going to a party. I think it's like a pride party. wearing some of the most 2012, 2013 fits that anyone, I was like PTSD by the long tanks. You're like, oh my God. No, I won't go back.

So at this party, there's like one straight guy who lost a bet to his sister or something like that. And there's another bout of anti-transness here. but Maxine meets this guy and she's drunk and they start making out and Shereen walks in and sees them. So she gets very upset and Maxine begs for forgiveness, but it's all very messy. Yeah, using, I think, a very diabolical tactic, which is the phrase, you have to forgive me. Oh, yeah. No, you don't have to forgive anyone. I know.

Yeah. cut back to the present, Shereen and her friend Crystal go shopping for underwear because Shereen barely has any since Maxine cut up most of hers. And then we flash back to the scene where Shereen and Maxine break up, followed by Maxine cutting up all of Shereen's underwear. Then we,

it seems like we kind of flash forward in time because now Shireen is dating a man named John Francis. Maxine is dating a new person as well. And it seems like they've kind of agreed to meet up with each other and meet each other's partners and try to be friends. So they meet up at a dance club. It turns out that Maxine's new girlfriend is Tibet, Shereen's teacher colleague who we've met before. And Shereen and Maxine start arguing and insulting each other and each other's partners and then Shereen storms off. But then she and Maxine have a tender moment in the bathroom. Then there is a screening of the short films that Shereen and Tibet's

students have made. Shereen is humiliated by the film that her students have made because it's all about farts. I thought it was beautiful. And it was the non-advanced class. And it was the non-advanced class they screened the advance to the girls and then it's like come on yeah beginner I loved it so cute anyways and then Shereen I don't know if she's worried about getting fired or what but her boss Ken is like no farts are funny and Shereen is like yeah farts are funny so and that's kind of the moral of the movie just kidding it's kind of a random thing yeah that That's the thematic undercurrent. Also, I was like, how is Shereen able to afford New York City rent when her job is a part-time after-school film teacher?

Right. Yeah. Movie magic, baby. The rich parents. There is a line where I forget what she says to her mom about needing to move into a new apartment and not saying why it was a lesbian breakup. but she was like we could have helped you i think yeah yeah yeah i assumed it was a bankrolled friclin life probably yes um okay so then we cut to a party with shereen's family i think it's maybe another persian new year's party yes and shereen comes out as by to her brother

his reaction we'll talk about it because he handles it very poorly and then discourages her from coming out to their parents. But she's like, no, I have to start being honest about who I am. He's like, could you delay until after my wedding? I'm like, this motherfucker. Yeah. So later that night, Shereen comes out to her mom and tells her that she was in love with Maxine and in a relationship with her.

But her mom completely dismisses it. She's in full denial. and she just says, no, you are not gay. And then she like gets up and leaves. Despite this, it seems like Shereen's spirits are higher than usual. She tells her friend Crystal that she plans to talk to her mom about it again soon. Then she sees Maxine on the subway platform and they wave at each other. And we get the impression that no matter what happens,

Shereen is going to be okay. The end. It was very girl who is going to be okay shot at the end. Do you know that meme? Oh, no, I don't. It is, I'll send it to you, but it's making fun of sort of these ending shots of girl in Brooklyn who's looking around nodding, being like, you know what, everything's going to be okay for me.

Because that is iconically how a million movies end. I love it. I feel like it's similar vibes to the trope of a teen girl going underwater in a swimming pool and having a like coming of age moment where she's just like, wow, everything's different now. This is the 20-something version of that girl who is going to be okay. Wait, I'm going to send her to you. But let's take a quick break and then we'll come back to discuss. Love horror movies, but also working on yourself.

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Listen to I Am Rapaport on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I am Rapaport podcast. And we're back. Melody, is there any place you would like to start? Guest's choice. Oh. I mean, obviously a lot going on with Iran right now and Persian identity, especially in the

diaspora. And I've been thinking about it a lot, rewatching a lot. lot of different movies, reading books. And I do really appreciate the use of the Persian New Year and like No-Rus. And then that jumping over the fire that we see in the beginning when she's struggling. And then at the end, when she's feeling empowered to come out to her family, there's so much going on there in those scenes for, it's called Chahar Shambasuri. She explains in the movie. It's the Wednesday before No Ruse where there's like a little fire festival. You jump over fire to like cleanse yourself of what is no longer serving you in the past year

and jump towards what will like enrich you, strengthen you, emboldened you, empower you in the upcoming year. And they didn't do it in the movie, but when you jump over the fires, you say something that translates to like my yellowness to you, your, redness to me. And the yellow and red is like from the fire yellowness represents like sickness and what's not serving like the bad. And redness is the strength to go after the, all the newness and betterness in the new year. So you're releasing the yellowness and embracing the redness. Yeah. So love that that was included. That's a very important like tenant of Persian culture, Noru's specific that it's like a 14 day holiday and there was just so much going on in those scenes with

the persians because it wasn't like a movie about coming out to me it was about like it's not like I'm going to tell my Persian parents it's my whole Persian family knows and everyone's avoiding it and pretending it's not there which is in Persian culture just such a thing there's a lot of just not addressing certain topics out of like politeness or like she says in the movie, Persians communicate through gossip. Like things aren't like addressed head on ever and are just danced around. So I just like felt a lot of that coming out of those scenes. And yeah, it was like a movie about like code switching essentially to me.

So you really see a lot of that in those scenes specifically when she's there with Maxine. going from her like Brooklyn, like Western vibe to her cousins and that insecurity feel because it's so much comparison in Persian families. Like it's a lot of competition, at least with those circles. I didn't really grow up in that like, there's a more affluent Persian dynamic that I think Desiree was raised in a different tax bracket, but it's still there to varying degrees. So I'd love the cultural ritual brought in like all the themes she was struggling with like throughout the movie in the greater like Brooklyn bubble. And just like, yeah, never being, never fitting in, but being like, am I, do they not want me or do they not want like, do they need a different version of me?

Right. So yeah, I mean, obviously so relatable. It's hard to be like impartial about it. Yep, yep, yep, yep, perfect. Nailed it. Yep. Yeah, obviously. I'm like, yeah, love the Persian parts

because right now I'm just like desperate for any positive Persian representation right now. Yeah, it does not exist very much in Western film. Yeah, it was great. I was curious because I thought that the ending, like, I mean, there were a lot of things about this movie that I was like, I don't know, just like I didn't see coming because, you know, you get used to the beats of a coming of age movie and this movie subverts a lot of those. And at the end, I liked the kind of nuance presented by the end of the movie where it's so devastating to watch, you know, Shireen come out to her mom and have her mom just unable, like unwilling, unwilling to receive that information.

and I was like, how is she going to process this? And that seat at the end where she's like, I'm going to try again in another month or so or like presenting this as something that is like inherently unfair to her, but something that I know plenty of people who have had to go through that of like, this is going to be a process because I want a relationship with my family. and like that kind of exact shade of gray, I don't think I'd ever seen in a movie before and not having it presented as like a failure,

but just like, you know, something unfair to Shereen because she has to deal with all of the internalized and externalized homophobia that her family and the world has, but also she loves her family and she wants them in her life and she wants to keep trying.

Yeah. Right, because we get the sense that Maxine, perhaps even one of the reasons they break up is because Shereen has not yet come out to her family and then we learn that Maxine seems like when she came out to her family she was completely ostracized

and so you would think maybe that Maxine wouldn't be a little bit more understanding then of like not wanting to come out to your family for fear of being disowned but but I also felt like with Maxine and this is like again just gets it a lot of how like realistically messy and frustrating these characters can be. It almost felt like Maxine was doing the old school thing of like, well, I suffered so you have to suffer in the way that like, I don't know, I feel like generationally that happens a lot of like,

well, I was in crippling debt. So therefore I want you to be in crippling debt. And you're like, well, that wouldn't you want better for someone that you love? But I do feel like Maxine has a lot of you know like stuff that she has yet to work through and I think like had a hard time dealing with Shereen I mean understandably having a difficult time with having to pretend she's Shereen's roommate. I know how painful that was a been especially where she's like I'm too old for this shit is sort of the vibe I was getting but yeah that like she wasn't able to show Shereen the like empathy she deserved because she was still so wounded from what had happened to her. Yeah. And also I mean, again, that was perhaps part of why they broke up, but also part of why they broke up is just that they weren't very compatible.

Not at all. There's no fixing that. Jamie, you said there's a scene that you're like, oh, I can't wait to get into that. And I was trying to remember what it was. That was the scene where Shereen is stalking Maxine at the queer women meetup group. Oh, yes. Yeah. So, I mean, if we want to go to that scene, that scene, I feel like really boils down a lot of what makes this movie so specific is that Shereen is being an absolute menace to society in this. So she's first of all, you know, it's it's stalking when women do it too. She is stalking Maxine and being a weird creep. Maxine is upset. It's like, get the hell out of here. And then Shereen ends up, you know, trying to. to, whatever, dominate the situation by asking out the leader of the group to humiliate Maxine,

which ends up humiliating Shereen on a longer timeline, which is very this movie. But in the background of that scene, there is a character, a gay man talking about how, and it's very specific the way he's talking about it too, that he has been labeled by law as a sex. offender for decades because of a relationship that he had with a boy who was two years younger than him when he was, I think it was like 1816 was the dynamic presented and that the result of that is that he's been labeled as a sex offender for his entire adult life, which is genuinely something that happened and happens and specifically targets queer community in order to make it, I mean, think of all of the ways in which your life is affected if you

have to identify as a sex offender. It's harder to get a job. It's harder to get housing. It's hard. Like, it's, it makes life impossible in all of these ways that if you are a sex offender, you know, that they're, that's a very complicated discussion. But clearly, like, this character was targeted for being queer by the law. and it is like ruined his life. And for some reason he wants to talk about it in a women's group, which is like, also, because that's part of why he's like there, because he's talking about something he's very upset with.

And I think what's happening in the background, I watched the scene like four times because I was like, what's happening? I think that the woman leading the group is like totally valid. This is a women's group. And he's like, well, wait a second. And like it seems like he just really wants to be heard. But he's pleading. Yeah.

it's such a like really intense scene to be happening in the background of like kind of rom-com hijinks in the foreground. It's wild. That's why I was like, what is the intention here? I could not get a handle on it. I thought it was just a, like not gender specific, just a like a more general queer advocacy group, but that there's a different woman there who's like, I thought we were going to be talking about women's issues. So I also didn't know. Maybe I misunderstood.

I guess my interpret, I thought that that line indicated that it was a women's group and that they're like, your issue is valid, but that's like not really what we're here to talk about. I don't know. I just thought that scene was like fascinating. I don't really understand why it's there, but I think it was really interesting that it was. Yeah. When it starts, I'm like, oh, is this going to be about like identity performance? Like and I assumed like I remember like my first time seeing it I think I went into it being like oh this is going to be about how she's not queer enough for the gay group and not like or too queer for her family and like those differences but watching it around this time I no longer but I love it I don't know what to make of it okay and sorry to invoke another horrible thing but there's

There's a kind of a similar scene in the 40-year-old virgin. Okay. Where... I love that you apologize for bringing up the 40-year-old. It's traumatic. There's a scene where Steve Carell's character takes Catherine Keener's daughter to a group for, I think, like, teens and their parents who want to talk about, like, sex and birth control and something like that. And the focus is the two of them, Steve Krell and the daughter, but then there's like other people in the background. And maybe I'm just kind of conditioned to think that the other people in a scene like this in a comedy movie,

whatever they're saying is going to be comedy or it's going to be played as a joke because the other characters in that scene are talking about whatever, whatever's happening. I don't remember the specifics, but it's like it's all, it's pretty much played as a joke. So that's why I was like, well, is this scene inappropriate behavior also intended to be a joke? Because the juxtaposition between the two things that are happening, like the disparity and the tone is huge. So I'm just like, what is going on? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's like, and it kind of like it feels very kind of in conversation.

with girls in that way to me where like I feel like it's just it is like such a weird dissonance I don't know why it's there it's kind of interesting that it is I don't know I guess like I didn't view that and I maybe I'm I don't know why I feel this way I didn't view that seem to be antagonistic towards the man pleading but I just felt like totally it was weird there were other moments where the movie did feel antagonistic in a way that cross lines for me, which mainly, as we have already alluded to, is the, like, casual transphobia that comes up a weird amount of times that I'm, you know, I want to believe if, you know, if she was making this movie now would not be there. But I don't think so. Yeah.

It was an Obama era, like, this girl doesn't care about being politically correct. Yes. Yeah. Like, that kind of vibe. I'm trying to figure out what to compare it to. I keep going to like the ironic racism in 30 Rock, but I don't know. I mean, I think that that's a good comp. And then I'm also thinking like if this is like the Louis C.K.

Peak era, like it kind of feels in step with that of like, I'm not afraid to say it. Like when it's like, well, maybe you should be a productive. There, um, it's hate speech. Bad and wrong. Yeah. I mean, I feel like this was also. a time in history and thankfully it's not quite like this anymore but where even within the queer community cis queer people they just had antagonism toward trans people yeah and so i don't know if it's

if we're seeing kind of traces of that here but yeah yeah i don't even know if we want to go into the specifics of what happens because i clocked three different instances of anti-trans sentiments i'm like i don't even really want to repeat it because it's like it's not plot relevant anything that's said it's just like casual turfiness usually from maxine which made me melody that made me yeah i was like what is this hyper fixation maxine what's what's going on i don't know but yeah maxine confirmed turf right but also perhaps closeted non-binary person question mark we we don't know we should ask her except. Yeah.

Wait. I'll DM her. We didn't touch on this when we talked to her. You're drunk. I mean, I feel like we're getting the things that are maybe not so great about the movie out of the way first, because there's a lot I do really like about this movie. I think there's a lot. It's doing well and the interesting ways that it handles different things. I mean, I love a movie about.

a woman. It's not necessarily that she's exploring her queer sexuality or in the sense that she's not, she's like, am I queer? Like, I have to figure this out. She's already figured it out for the most part, it seems. So now it's more about like figuring out what specifically she's into because it seems like there's like kink things that she likes that she's trying to explore. You know, she has this threesome for the first time.

she has sex with that stand-up comedian slash folk artist where she's like, does that count as king? Oh yeah. Okay. That is king. Humiliation. Yeah. Is that a humiliation king?

No, but she tells him to be rough with her. So, yeah, and then she's also grappling with how when if do I come out to my parents. And as we were talking about already a little bit, she describes it as a process. and she says to like Maxine, she's just like, it's a process and I'm working on it. And Maxine doesn't like the timeline that Shereen is on. And it culminates in the end of their relationship. But yeah, I just, I like the different ways in which she's, it also seems like she's trying to figure out. Because at least in the context of this, in like the scope of this story, she seems to be

gravitating more toward women than men, where like that threesome, for example, she's really into the woman. And the guy, she's like, get away for the scenes where she's like trying to lightly kiss him and you can just tell that she like, she's like, ugh. Yeah. Does this guy have to be here? And her blammer. His vibes are rancid. They really are. Scary. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I just, I love to see a sexually liberated horn. woman having a bunch of sex. Yeah, especially one from the Islamic Republic of Iran. I thought that was interesting, just her like hammering home, the environment her parents

are from. But then at the same time, I was curious, because like a lot of, at least my parents are pretty progressive, that's why they left Iran. And a lot of Iranians are Muslim for sure, but like reject Islamic law. and this like kind of theocratic fascism. So yeah, I found that interesting. Yeah, it just felt like with her family and with the queer community, it was just like, here I am, I'm too much and not enough at the same time.

Like I don't like I'm trying to find where I am on this like spectrum of being in both communities. Yeah. Well, and also like with regards to like bi representation, which is like such a huge. huge theme in Desirey Akivan's work, watch the bisexual. Yes. It's so good. I think it was, it was on like BBC for some reason. I don't know.

She gets into that, I will say, on the episode. The behind the seats on that. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. Well, we got to listen. Yeah, we'll let you know. Yeah, we'll let you know how your podcast episode was.

Thank you so much. Oh, my God. Wouldn't that be amazing if someone would just listen to your podcast for you so you never need to hear your own voice. dream. The worst. But but just like I think nails down in a way that is still unusual now, so certainly would have been unusual in 2014. Like I love that Shereen, she is not confident in all ways, but she is, she knows what her sexuality is and is continuing to explore it at the beginning of the movie where I feel like there's so many bi-narratives that I mean either the

worst of them are like G-ly coded, right? They're like, she doesn't know what she she wants and what she wants is but afflux cock like a world that like cannot conceive of a confident bisexual or like i'm trying to think of an example here but or like the whole movie is about navigating realizing your by and i just feel like it's rare to have someone who knows that they're by and is like a mess in all these other very human ways at the beginning of the movie and remains that way throughout. And that there's so many shades of pushback on her identity specifically as by inside and outside of the queer community where like her brother, even though it's like a brief exchange, clearly does not understand or like kind of rejects the label that she's presenting.

Like he doesn't understand what being biased. He's like, okay, so are you gay or not? Sort of seemed like the energy. She says, I'm bisexual and he's like, so that's a thing, huh? As if like he didn't. even know or he thought he heard about it and thought it was fake because that was also that's a widespread sentiment for a very long time that people who are by people still act that way yeah yeah yeah well and and that it also comes from maxine i thought was interesting and and telling too where like when they're breaking up and you know to some extent i'm sure that maxine is just saying it would say anything to hurt her in this moment but says oh it was probably just a phase anyways which is like one of the one of the classics one of the classics her brother also calls her sexually confused

yeah like it's just it runs the the gambit of is it gambit or gamut i never think gamut i don't know we don't know but anyway she he's saying a lot of shit that we've all heard yeah before but i love that that doesn't discourage her from moving forward with attempting to come out to her parents or her mom at least. Yeah. None of it like makes her waiver in her identity, but it is like a source of constant frustration, which felt very like real and I don't know,

just in the way that you don't see a lot of marginalized, people with marginalized identities just be like people. I appreciated that about Shereen in this where it's like, yes, she, well, I mean, she is, I guess she is kind of, an iconic messy bisexual, therefore playing into the trope around. But I didn't care. I didn't care there.

I'll say it. Me either. Another thing I wanted to talk about was Shereen's relationship with her body. And like Desire Acovan writing and performing nudity in the movie. I appreciate that that's happening on her terms as the writer, director and actor in these scenes. I appreciate the representation of a slightly different body type than we typically see when we see a naked woman during a sex scene in a movie because they usually look like Victoria's Secret models. Obviously, Desiree Acovan is incredibly attractive, but, you know,

she has small boobs. Her character is self-conscious of them. There's that scene in the lingerie shop. where she's like I always thought I didn't really deserve to wear a bra because my boobs are small that scene is like so that was another theme where I was like this scene is so weird and tonally dissonant where I'm like what is going on in this scene I don't know I was like oh so this is about capitalism yeah you just have like a pushy shop owner right manipulating her into buying a bra right I was like I didn't feel it I was like because as a as a fellow small titty have her that doesn't wear bras I'm like, they're lying to you. Shereen, don't fall for her.

You don't need a bro. Do whatever you want. It does seem like it's the sales lady doing whatever she needs to do to make the sale. Yeah. Yeah. Shereen buying into it maybe because she's feeling especially vulnerable or something. And then her friend Crystal is in the background being like, what the hell is going on? Like, Shireen, why are you falling for this?

Sometimes you just need a beautiful woman to be nice to you when you're going through it. And you'll end up, I've certainly dropped more money than I'm comfortable admitting for someone who was nice to me when I was having our day. Yeah. It does the trick. It works. But yeah, all of this just felt very real and relatable as far as like existing with a female body in a world that's constantly trying to make you feel bad about your body. and her having to figure out how to feel sexy in her body and how to, you know, own her sexiness

and stuff like that. Yeah, I liked her owning her sexuality. There's a transition I love in the movie where she is hooking up with the soft, like, folk stand up. And she goes to like scratch his back and he grabs. grab her hand. He is not into like the roughness. She's been trying to get going and it just transitioned straight to like a clasped hand over her heads and it's like Maxine on top. Great match cut. Yeah. So good. But that certainty she had in her sexuality, I don't know. I was

trying to figure out was like, does this mean like this relationship was very toxic? Did it help her like explore? and own her sexuality. Like, were we trying to see, like, I don't know if that was trying to be displayed at all. Her relationship with Maxine or her hookup with that guy? It felt like her relationship with Maxine for as toxic as it was did give her like this owning. I don't know. She always owned her sexuality. I don't know. There was something there. I could never, I'm still trying to process and figure out. And it was literally that cut.

that made me obsess over it. Interesting. Yeah, I guess it's like I wasn't really, because Maxine, like, she both has like really nice memories of sex with vaccine. It seems like the sex was really good. But then vaccine is also sort of like vanilla pride, vanilla representation matters. So it's like there's still, I don't know. Yeah, I guess I kept where I landed on it was just like it's like a little bit of

column A, a little bit of column B, because I feel like if this movie was more prescriptive to, like, Maxine, turfie as she is, you know, is being stalked by her ex-girlfriend and I think is like pretty, pretty, could have been less chill about it. Yeah. So it's like there's just so much, I don't know. It's, it seems like these two are like willing to show each other grace. And maybe that's it. Like, I don't know. Enjoyed the sex scene, though. Good sex scene. Good sex scene. Yeah. I mean, obviously those two scenes are juxtapose right next to each other. The hookup with the folk stand-up and the way more intimate, hotter sex scene between Shereen and Maxine, my interpretation of it was that, and this is kind of obvious, but Shereen hooking up with this guy, she barely knows. I think she met him

earlier that day. Yeah, he was Brooklyn Boy 82, which I wrote down for some reason. I was just like, okay, Qip era. I kind of miss OKCupid. I know it's still around, but I haven't been on it. Who's left? Who's there? I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure. But she was doing this to fill a void. She longs for the intimacy she had with Maxine, who she loved.

Because, like, you see that scene after she has had sex with that guy, and they're lying in bed. She's, like, on her back, like, wide awake. And then the man is just, like, passed out, kind of sprawled on top of her. And you can just kind of imagine what she's thinking, which is, like, get off me and please leave my apartment. That's what I would be thinking if it were me. Maybe I'm just projecting. No, that's definitely the vibe.

Yeah, where she's like, please get out of here so I can fantasize about my ex. Right, right, right, right. Turns out you deepened the void. Skiddle. Yeah. To your point, Melody, I feel like, yeah, that she did probably,

she was able to kind of like open up sexually with Maxine. Although, you know, we don't know a lot of her history pre-maxine. Maybe it's like sex with intimacy. And it's like even if it's not kinky sex. Yeah. It's that. You solved it for me. I'm just not smart.

That was a three-person question. Yeah, took all three of us. We got there. But even that is like so nuanced too, right? Where it's like you found like sex with intimacy, but it's still not. not quite what you need. It's like that kind of, I feel like I've had relationships like that where it's like, okay, that relationship was ultimately not good.

But there was one element of it that I experienced that I'd never had before and I want that moving forward or like that kind of deal. Yeah. Me too. And it was sexual. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, sometimes like not great people learn a new way to make you come.

And you're like, well, we have to sit with this. People contain. multitudes. Turns out. Evil people are often really good at sex. Yeah. True. Yeah.

Not always, but more often than you'd want. Or bad communicators. Verbal communicators tend to be good at sex. It's annoying. What else? Does anyone have anything else they want to talk about? Love the song at the end. One of my favorites.

There's a Persian song during the credits after she's going to be okay moment. I think she throws out. is the she's going to be okay moment before her throwing the dildo out oh i thought it was after i think it's the last shot right maybe i'm misremembering the last shot is her on the train being like i'm gonna be okay yeah okay yeah regardless there's a song at the end that is a popular persian song this artist it's called gole yakh which translates to like ice flower like a frozen flower it's got a lot of like poetic imagery she chose the perfect song it's just about like this like melancholy nostalgia and feeling like emotionally distant from something and it's i highly recommend people i don't know listen to it and put the lyrics

through a translator it's like being stuck between worlds and it is it's born out of this like diasporic nostalgia but it really it works really well i don't know if it was intentional or not but it works well. After all of this like emotionally guarded struggles between her two worlds, it does a good job of closing it out. Nice. Really good song.

It's like a psych rock artist from the 70s. That kind of reminded me of this scene where she's talking with the Scott Asdick character when they first meet. And he's like, oh, Shereen, where is that from? And he's like listing off. Yeah. different countries in Syria, Argentina.

Well, I think, and then he also refers to like when she says she's Iranian. And he's like, so how do you feel about, I think he's like, all that, all that stuff. That's so real. Yeah, he's like, I just read this article about this hip hop, the hip hop scene in Tehran. He's like, do you know about that? Are you into that? Or like, are you part of that scene? And she's like, when I go to Iran, I'm just untangling jewelry or, like, or, like, do you know about that?

Like, I'm watching Disney videos while my grandma untangles jewelry. I really loved the Scott Atz's scene with the, yeah, wow, Iran. How do you feel about that? Because that is so real. And Iran, post-1979 revolution is so shrouded in mystery, like, by design. Like, it is a heavily censored country. You have to, out of the international foreign press index, it's, like, rates, it's third to last, out of all of the countries.

The truth has to be smuggled out. And there are real life and death repercussions just for, like, I have a cousin right now who every time he updates me on what's going on on the streets of Tehran, we know it's like a huge risk. And we're like talking in code essentially on WhatsApp. There's checkpoints everywhere. They'll grab your phone and go through your deleted messages and photos. Like it is so just with what's happening now, especially, like watching that scene back,

Like I it's very frustrating time to be an Iranian and just like witnessing a lot of wrong just narratives and propaganda going around from the left and the right in the West. But that was like a good reminder that it was like what do you expect like that's what it is. It's such a mysterious place and there's so much like people get shocked. Oh my God, there's a rap scene. They do rap there. Like it's like yeah, there are Western. like globalization's happened and reached them.

Internet has, you know, opened up little, like, peak holes into Iranian culture. And I don't know. I really appreciated that. I'm going through a lot and I really appreciated that. I mean, well, as of today, there's been an internet blackout for how many days now? Well, it went up to the 90s.

And every time there's conflict in, that country, the government shuts down the internet so they can get away with the most horrific crimes against humanity. There was a massacre in early January, January 8th and 9th specifically. There were protests that just turned dead. It went from pellet guns to like imported militias, proxy militias coming in to shoot and kill their own people or anyone, dissent. And the internet went out for that and came back. But then once we went to war that night, they, gave a warning my cousin even told me he's like at midnight they said they're cutting it and we thought it would just be another like week or a couple week period like they normally do but yeah it lasted

months and um it's tough it's back now but like you still have to purchase a VPN to get on a messaging app and there's an economic disaster like I I don't care find me Islamic Republic I've been like sending crypto over so that it can be like like to bypass sanctions just to send money so that they can convert it and buy VPNs just to let us know that they're okay and safe from bombings. But yeah, it's still really bad. They're trying to introduce sort of like a North Korean model of internet right now. And I guess they were kind of far along on that process, but because of the war, like certain information centers or intelligence centers were bombed, but they're trying to make it North Korea levels of censorship.

And hopefully that doesn't happen because it is such a beautiful culture. And the Iranian people, they're the best, sweetest, most artistic kind, hospitable people in the world. And it's just crazy that people don't know that. And you get that from conversations like, they got rap there. It's just like, yeah, they're people. And they just want to live a normal life and listen. to music, which is illegal. You can't listen to music in the street there. Women are not allowed to sit in public. It's like, yeah, they just want basic human rights. And I appreciate her for kind of

like poking fun of that from a diaspora point of view, like these conversations we have were just the most basic things about humanity. It's like, you guys, they do that? They got that there? So that was well done. Yeah. Is there anything else? Anyways. Is there anything else anyone wants to chat about? Just hope we get more from her.

Me too. I was like that was something that I noted that it's like she's still very much working. But every time, like we've talked about this so a lot this year, almost every time we talk about a woman director and especially a woman of color. Like getting that sustained career as a director is so elusive. We talked about that with Julie Dash when we did Daughters of the Dust earlier this year. Desirey Akvon has directed one other movie, the Miseducation of Cameron Post, which we should cover at some point. It's really good.

So good. And she also, she wrote and directed that in 2018. And then she has, I mean, she's been working consistently in TV, but I just would, I just I would be completely shocked if there isn't a script that, like a project that has been in development for far too long, you know, because it's like TV directing is great financially and it can be like really enriching. But it's like she is an otore director. Like that is, we should be seeing more from her. We also just talked about it with, oh my gosh, Kayla, what's the movie we covered two seconds ago? Slums of Beverly Hills. Slums of Beverly Hills. Yes. Like where that director has spoken, except. extensively on like how impossible like it took it it it's like a decade between projects because um who can say who can say but if you look at um really like I feel like a lot of women have really promising debuts and then they are sort of relegated to less prominent areas that you just know would not be happening to a man in their position so right there's development

hell and that's standard but then for women it's it's It's like double that, it feels like, or women of color. It's like the seventh circle of hell, development hell. Yes, right. It's just all gaslighting and ridiculousness. But she's so amazing. And in a world with even the tiniest bit of justice in it, we will be seeing a lot more from her. Yes.

Well, I saw an interview with her. It was like a screening of this film followed by a Q&A with her that they did. I think it's like a 10-year anniversary. So it was a couple years ago that this happened. She was not able to be there in person. So it was like a Q&A with her over Zoom. But she talks about how she has two feature scripts that she's been working on developing, trying to get into production. So hopefully any second now, we'll get one or both of them.

That's the decade, the mandatory decade waiting period for a woman of college. So it's a few time. It's just so, it's so diabolical. I'm, okay, I'm just going to hold my tongue. I'm going to hold my tongue for now. Or we'll be here all day. Well, the movie does pass the Bechtel test, as we alluded earlier, between many different characters between Shereen and Maxine.

Of course, Shereen and Crystal. Shereen and her mother. Shereen and Tibet. Shereen in Tibet. Green and the bra salesperson. I don't know if we know her name, but there's really not a lot of men of importance in this plot. I would say her brother is maybe the most narratively impactful man. This is true.

And he's not in it very much. Yeah. And her boss just being like stones. Barts are awesome. Yeah, he's so high. Just like, go at the flow. Oh, also that his defining characteristic, he's like, I never know where my son is. You're like, all right, man. That's his last line where he's like, where's my son?

Yeah, have you seen him? Oh, man. Yeah, so it passes the pectal test. But what about our nipple scale where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens? I think I'll go four with this one. I am going to take off a full nipple for the anti-trans sentiments and jokes that occur throughout the movie. But again, I would hazard a guess that had this movie come out 10 years later or more recent projects of Desire's that she would avoid that. So it does feel of the time. But even so, I'm going to take a nipple off for that.

But yeah, four nipples. And I'm going to give them all to Desiree. And again, hope we see more of her work soon. Yes. I'm going to go, yeah, I'm like, I guess I'm like between 3.75 and a 4. This is, this movie is like so distinct. Like, this movie I feel like only could have been made by this person in this year. Like, right.

It is both so specific to who Desirey Akavan is and it's so 2014 in ways that are both really cool and transphobic. The transphobia I really had a hard time with, I think just especially because it just kept on coming back. But I do totally agree that like this is like not something that would appear today. That is the 2014-est thing about this movie besides some of the clothes. But, but I really, I mean, I really loved this movie. This is like, the fact that this is her debut is kind of nuts. Yeah. And that she gives a really good performance in it. I just. just she's wearing so many hats. Everything about it works for me except for the things that we've discussed.

I'm going to go four. I'm going to go four. And I'm going to give them all to our good friend Desiree. Nice. Melody, how about you? How about you? I was thinking for neon 2014 style mesh covered nipples. Some of the outfits were triggering.

I honestly had visible. physical reactions. Like, my butt cheeks were so clenched during the The shirts were so why were our shirts so long? What was going on? It's because like our pants

were so tight that our junk was on display or like something or the pants were so low. It was an evil time. Melody, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. guys. It's so much fun. Where can people follow you on social media? Plug anything you want to plug.

Well, I'm on a therapist mandated break from Instagram because I've been crushing out in comment sections defending my people in the homeland. But I'm at Melody Kamali on all social media and I'll be back in a sane way. But, you know, really limiting that right now because of It's healthy. Propaganda. Yeah. Really heavy right now. Yeah.

But I'm around. Hit me up. Amazing. And you can follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast, where we are not very active, because I also can't stand social media. Yeah. But where you can really follow us and support us is our Patreon, aka Matrion, where you get two bonus episodes every single month plus access to the back catalog of over 200 bonus episodes all for $5 a month. What a damn good special.

What a deal. What a deal. And with that, should we, I was going to say, throw away the dildos of our ex. Let's be three girls and days who are going to be okay. I'm like, I'm looking around. I'm sipping my coffee. I'm nodding. We're on the train.

We're going to be okay. And we're going to be okay. That's literally my train. Really? That's my view. Yeah. Next time I'm on it. Yeah, later today I'll be, I'll be a okay.

You'll be okay. You're going to be okay. That's beautiful. I love that for you. Okay, bye. Bye-bye. The Bechtel cast is a production of IHeartMedia, hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus. And me, Caitlin Durante.

The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtenen. And edited by Caitlin Durante. ever heard of them? That's me. And our logo and merch and all of our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus, ever heard of her? Oh my god. And our theme song, by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan, with vocals by Catherine Voskrasinski. Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree slash Bechtelcast. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.

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I'd be seeing it, but I'm like, man, I still got, like, so much more to do. Like, Prince, he dropped like 30 albums. We dropped, like, five right now. That's the rate we got to be going. Yep, that's a good attitude. No matter the era, Drink Chams brings you the biggest names and the most unfiltered conversations. Listen to Drink Chams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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I've never told this story. This must have been tucked deep, deep in the Jeremy Lynn file. My name is MC Jen. I'm excited to tell you about laugh, but not least. I'll be chatting with guests from all walks of life about the power of humor when it comes to facing difficult times. These will be conversations that remind us So life is hard.

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