The Bechdel Cast - Babygirl (2024) with Emma Alamo

Episode Date: April 10, 2025

This week, babygirls Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Emma Alamo drink a full glass of milk while discussing Babygirl (2024). Here's the piece by Angelica Jade Bastién - https://www.vulture.com/article/the-ending-of-babygirl-explained.html and here's the piece by Jourdain Searles - https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/purely-carnal/ Follow Emma on Instagram at @emma_alamo and check out her website/online store at https://emmaalamo.com  Also, don't forget to check vote for We the Unhoused for a Webby Award here: https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2025/podcasts/shows/public-service-activism and listen to We the Unhoused here - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/we-the-unhoused/id1490017575 ...Also, check out Caitlin's upcoming shows at linktr.ee/bechdelcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's up? I'm Laura, host of the podcast, Courtside with Laura Corenti, a masterclass case study of the business of women's sports. I'll be chatting with leaders like tennis icon, Alana Kloss. I don't do what I do only for women. I do it for everyone. And I want the whole market. And innovators like Jenny Nguyen. I would say 50% of the people that come visit the Sportsbra

aren't sports fans. They come to be in community. They come to be part of this culture. Courtside with Laura Corenti is an iHeartWomen sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Courtside with Laura Corenti on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeartWomen Sports. Are your money skills total trash?

Well, trust me, you are not alone. Personal finance ignorance is as American as apple pie, but you can improve. Think, Matt, if your emergency fund was invested, especially given the volatility we're experiencing right now, ouchies. Investing, it is ultimately a necessity, but you gotta keep that emergency fund accessible.

It needs to be cash parked in your savings. It's time to learn, and How to Money is here to bring the knowledge. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you? Why is my cat not here? Am I going and she's eating my lunch? Or if hypnotism is real?

It would use a suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive controls. But what's inside a black hole? Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe. Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Sighin' Stuff. Join me, or Hitcham, as we answer questions about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Sighin' Stuff on the iHeart video app, Apple Podcast podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up y'all? I'm AJ Andrews, pro softball players, sports analysts, and the first woman to win a Rawlings Gold Glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds. Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.

Listen to Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network. -♪ On the pectoral cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast.

Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello Bechdel cast listeners. We've got a little plug at the very top of this episode. It's a double plug. Who wants to go first? Oh my gosh. You go first, Amy. Okay. So I'm really, really excited to announce that We The Unhoused, which is a show created and hosted by Fio Henderson, that I also have been executive producing for the last two years is nominated for a Webby. And we need your help.

There is a portion of the Webby is where you vote. Voting is only open until April 17th. We are in the public service and activism category. I know we've plugged it on the show before, but if you haven't listened, way to vote and a way to listen to the show will be linked in the description. And the show is hosted

by Theo, who has previously unhoused started the podcast while living on the streets of LA in 2019 and has since grown into the only podcast in existence that talks about issues that affect the unhoused told by and centered on unhoused people. It is like such a pleasure to work on this show and I'm really excited. So if you have a second, literally they made us a link where you can just click and go to our category. You don't have to vote in anything else if you don't want to. And it's a tight race right now. So we'd really appreciate your vote and listen to We The Unhoused.

It's great. Yes, and we'll put that link both on our link tree and in the description of this episode. So easily accessible. Awesome. For my plug, it is the shows that I have coming up on the East Coast. One of them is like tomorrow,

if you're listening to this episode on the day it comes out It's on Friday April 11th in State College, Pennsylvania It's me headlining a stand-up show plus a lineup of a bunch of fun local comedians So come check that out if you're in the central, Pennsylvania area also same spot which is the Blue Brick Theater. On Sunday, April 13, I am teaching a stand up workshop. So if you're like, wait a minute, I want to, I'm interested in stand up, but I don't know how, or I don't know

what, how to do it. I'll tell you about it. And then I'm scooting over to New York City ever heard of it Because on April 15th, which wait a minute. Isn't that the day Titanic sank? Whoa, and isn't that also the day that I'm doing a Titanic themed Stand-up show. It's all connected such an occasion. Well, it's all true. So on April 15th, I'm doing a show called A Night to Remember with Caitlin Durante at Union Hall in Brooklyn. And it's me headlining and then a lineup of many past Bechdel cast guests. So familiar faces. Really a murderers row.

Oh, such a good lineup. and there's going to be some other you know titanic trivia and little bits here and there so come out to that. I'd be so grateful the ticket links are also on our linktree. So lots of things to click on. So many links to click on so go to link tree slash Bechdel cast and check out all of that and otherwise enjoy this episode on baby girl. Hey Jamie, hey Caitlin, drink this full glass of milk that I sent over to you. Is the milk weirdly thick for effect? Yes. Will you later give me a saucer of the same very thick, cum-like milk?

You're absolutely right. Oh my god. I'll do it. Good girl. Thank you. Oh my god. Listen, I'm lactose intolerant, and that scene was super hot to me.

So I don't know what that says. I like just the convulsing my body did as I watched her drink a full glass of milk. That was a bigger ask than anything else that happened to me. I was like a glass of full milk at 10 PM. It wasn't the milk, it was the timing of the milk. A glass of milk at 10 PM was like, I'm like, it's night, it's night.

My dad, that feels like a very, okay, we're already off track, but like, that feels like a very boomer coded thing. Like my dad would drink milk at night. I stopped drinking milk at night when I was 12, because it turns out it's actually not that good for you. That was like big milk. We should not be drinking milk after infancy.

I mean, you can. It's not gonna kill you. Like, you know. It's not gonna kill you, but it's like. Dairy is fine, but it's not. Our bodies weren't designed. Yeah, our bodies are not made to digest it. The food pyramid is fake.

Yeah. Yeah. Should we just do this episode about dairy instead? Forget baby girl, we're talking about dairy. We are the anti-dairy, we're the oat milk lobby. Okay, welcome to the Back to the cast, my name's J.V. My name is Caitlin and we are here to talk about baby girl. We are here doing the Bechtel cast. This is our show where we examine movies

through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechtel test as a jumping off point. But what on earth is that? Well, Caitlin, I'm glad you asked. The Bechtel test is a media metric originally created by queer cartoonist, Alison Bechtel, for her comic collection, Dykes to Watch Out for. And over the years has turned into a more general

media metric. Our version of the test requires that two characters with names of a marginalized gender must speak to each other about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue and it should be relevant dialogue that will happen in this movie. But just so you know, just so you know, yeah. So the movie today is Baby Girl 2024. Our guest today is- A friend of the show. We're very excited to have her.

She's a designer and maker of size inclusive leather bondage harnesses, which you can find at EmmaAlamo.com. It's Emma Alamo. Hello. Hello and welcome. Emma, what's up? So excited to talk about this movie with y'all.

Oh my gosh. Simply so happy to have you here. I have a feeling that y'all have viewed it very differently than me. No, no, I mean, I think you'll be surprised. I think that there'll definitely be a diversity of opinion, but like, I guess that it might be, as long as everyone's comfortable,

when we're talking about our experience with this movie, also like our level of familiarity with Kink in general, because I think that that definitely colors just the amount of informantness you come at this movie with, which is important. And I feel like we've kind of neglected it as a show to do that in previous episodes that address Kink, because we haven't done it in a while.

We grew up. Yeah. Exactly. So Emma, tell us about your experience with the movie, with kink in general, tell us everything. Tell us more about your business. Yeah, I'm obviously into kink. Otherwise it would be kind of weird

if I was just running this business as a full outsider. You're just a neutral, you're a neutral party, yeah. Yeah, but I started actually getting into power play, sub-dom stuff with a partner when I was 22. And I was into it on an interpersonal one-on-one basis. I had never been a part of the community or gone to any events around it until I started making bondage harnesses.

But now, yeah, we sell at various kink events around the country. So I am at wild kink events all the time. And my, like, threshold for what is normal is very different than most people's. Yeah, I was hesitant to see this movie at first, because first of all, I was like, it's going to be like 50 Shades of Grey. It's going to be like really unrealistic and corny and the bad depiction of what subdomin relationships are and then also I was afraid it might be triggering because I had a relationship with a superior at a previous job that ended up being really traumatic and I was delighted to see

that it was neither of those things for me. I loved it so much. Oh, great. I mean, this seems to be a pretty well loved movie among sex therapists and kink experts. For the most part, I've it has been kind of divisive in the in the kink community. I'm excited to hear about it. For a number of reasons we can get into later, yeah. Sure. Well, I'll jump in. So I have never been very immersed in the kink community, specifically any kind of dom sub dynamic.

I've experimented lightly. Never full immersion, but a little bit of experimentation here and there. And I've had a lot of interactions, like conversations with straight Dom men, particularly on field, which for anyone who is not familiar is a- I know where this is going.

I know where this is. I know this one. This is a dating app that is geared toward various communities, I would say specifically and particularly the kink and the polyamory community. There's other, you know, bubbles that it appeals to, but I feel like those are kind of like the primary communities that tend to use field.

And for me, it's like the polyamory aspect of it. That's why I am on and off that. But I've interacted with a lot of men from that app and have had some experiences with them that are me experimenting with me being a sub, which I've learned that I am not. I am not that at all. If anything, I am a dom, although for me, I prefer just like a more kind of balance to distribution of power in any kind of like romantic or sexual situation.

But what I've learned, and I was gonna talk about this later, but it's just gonna come up now. So a lot of the interactions and experiences I've had in this little journey of figuring out where I am on this spectrum has been me talking to men, again, like straight men who consider themselves to be doms, who with evidence I've seen, it feels like many of them,

not all of them, of course, but many of them are using kink as a cover to simply be abusive to women. Yes. Either physically or sexually or emotionally or verbally or any type of abuse that feels like a common thing. I've seen that, yeah. So much so that it put me off the field for a while because I was just having so many,

I was like matching with people and then they would just like immediately be really inappropriate and without checking in with your boundaries first kind of yeah and that's not how it's supposed to work you're supposed to have a conversation and make sure you're on the same page about stuff exactly so I I've noticed this this trend and it's just it's a it's a bummer because for those people who are in this community who are actually doing it respectfully and responsibly in the way that it's meant to be done, it's just, I hate that there's all these abusers out there who are getting mixed up in that. So that's been kind of my experience with it. And then so I saw this movie in theaters and I couldn't help but feel like there are glimpses of that in Samuel's character or maybe it's just that I'm not understanding kink enough hard to say

But I couldn't help but like feel that there was like some degree of that, but we'll we'll talk about that further but you know, I saw the movie I It's not really the type of movie that I tend to gravitate toward. It's not very much of a romp. So it didn't really speak to me. I think there's a lot of interesting things about it. I think I didn't really understand what the director's intentions were the first time I saw it.

And then I went back and watched some interviews with her. And I came away with a better understanding and appreciation for what she was trying to do. But yeah, I have mixed feelings about the movie in general. Jamie, what about you? Bringing another experience to the table here, I am, I think, pretty fairly naive when it comes to kink. I've done some stuff.

I'm a monogamy head. So with trusted partners, I've done some shit. I don't need to get into it, but I've enjoyed myself. I've played many parts in my day. And I don't mind being submissive as long as I have more money than them. What does that mean?

I don't know, I have class issues. I know exactly what you're talking about. I think that it's like, it kind of scares me because you're seeing that at the highest possible level in this movie. But anyways, I will say I'm very naive when it comes to the King community. I've never really taken part.

And if it's OK for me to say so, Emma, you have actually, we, it was almost two years ago now, or maybe exactly two years ago, we broke maybe exactly two years ago. We broke bread, AKA hot dog buns, and then you fit me for a harness in your shop, which was such a cool experience for me. I'd never had an experience like it, and it's a really great thing, and I love it.

And so while I consider myself, I feel like fairly neutral in this area because I you know, most of my Experimenting has been I think kind of vanilla. I think by most people's yardstick But yeah, I guess I I was coming in naive and tried to explore kind of the widest breadth of opinion I could find and it's really interesting because I mean, there couldn't be a more, you know, personal way to come at a movie than like, how do you feel about sex? I also at some points felt like I wasn't old enough to understand some of the dynamics

of this movie. And I wonder if I revisited this movie in 10, 15, 20 years, if I would view it differently, you know, because I was seeing a lot of, you know, again, like younger letterbox reviewers being like, who would cheat on Antonio Banderas? And I'm like, well, I think that's a fundamental misunderstanding of marriage. Not about that. Yeah, like, you know, things that even if even Antonio Banderas, you know, he's been divorced. So the point is, I, yeah, I even among like writers and people who I really respect their opinions, there's been a huge breadth of opinion. And so I'm very open.

I generally liked the movie. I understand where you're coming from, Caitlin. I'm excited to talk about that. I was more, I mean, what really gets me turned on is talking about class. I think that my core issue with the movie is the class setting of it and the motivation for the class setting

I'm interested to talk about that because I can see pros and cons for it, but I think Of all the things I appreciated about this movie some of which might have been under informed, right? I am very sick of seeing, you know Explorations of the absolute richest people in the world and being like, they actually are quite complicated people. I'm very frustrated with that. And as a viewer of The White Lotus, I'm kind of pretty burnt out on it. So that setting, cause it's like,

there's kinky people absolutely everywhere. Like, why do we need to choose the number one girl boss? I think I understand why. It just wasn't my favorite choice. But anyways, yeah, I enjoyed the movie and I will say one of the things that I was really hung up on, as I always am in Nicole Kidman movies,

her wig, she starts this movie with an Australian accent. She does. And it gets fucked right out of her. It's wild. I literally, because I didn't go back and watch because I was like, I'm gonna stand in my truth here. And I know she, because you always have to pay attention to the first two scenes of Nicole Kidman movie.

Because it's never, I mean, and I love her. And I actually, I think that there is like some really interesting commentary on her career and life that's going on within this movie that sort of echoes what Demi Moore got a lot more attention for in The Substance this year, where Nicole Kidman has been constantly, if not criticized, speculated on like, well, she's a woman over 50. Why does she have work done in Bubble?

And this movie directly interfaces with that question in a way that I thought was really cool. It's impossible to watch this movie and not think about her performance in Eyes Wide Shut. I think she's just like, she's so fucking cool. And I also have some thoughts, so I'm excited to talk about it. I made a letterbox list after I watched this movie

entitled Movies Set Around Christmas Time in which Nicole Kidman's husband feels emasculated by her sexuality. And on that list is Baby Girl and Eyes Wide Shut. Yes, a great pairing. I love that. Right? I love that. The indie movie theater here in Chicago did a Christmas special,

and one week the two Christmas movies that they showed were Eyes Wide Shut and Muppet Christmas Carol. Yes! And I've never felt more seen by a pairing of movies. Oh, wow. Chicago Forever. Oh, Muppet Christmas Carol, best Christmas movie. Classic, yeah. The other thing I find interesting

about this movie, Baby Girl, is that it is one of two movies that came out in 2024 in which Nicole Kidman plays a woman who gets involved with a much younger man, the other one being a family affair, that movie where she starts dating Zac Efron's character. I mean, that was a really hot thing. I mean, like, this is A24 presents mommy porn. Let's make no mistake of like what's happening here.

And I say that with unwavering support. But that was a big thing last year, because there was also that like Amazon Prime movie with Anne Hathaway that I thought was kind of cute. I think it was called like The Idea of You. Yeah, who was the man in that? They're all the same man basically. And I say that again with love,

but it's like a very white boy of the month. I don't know who it was. He did a good job. And Harris Dickinson does a great job in this movie at that. Yeah, I agree. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap, shall we?

All right. ["Tariff Whiplash"] Tariff whiplash is real, folks. In rapidly changing economic policies, they affect all of us to one degree or another. Trump 1.0, so that was more tariff talk. Now we are experiencing the widespread tariff action. Totally scattershot, totally random.

The theory, Matt, I think is that we're trading short-term pain for long-term gain. That's the tariff theory, at least. But I have a hard time envisioning the long game rosy outcomes if these policy priorities kind of continue. It can be hard to know how to react to news of accelerating layoffs, increasing stock market volatility. That's why the How to Money podcast exists. We cut through the hype to give you crucial information that can help you to achieve your

money goals, no matter what is going on in the world. Yeah, it's our goal to help you make wise money choices that will allow you to build wealth over time and reduce anxiety levels so you can sleep well at night. How to Money comes out three times a week, but our Friday flight episodes speak directly to what's happening in the financial news so you can digest this week's headlines without freaking out. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The number one hit true crime podcast, The Girlfriends is back with something new, The Girlfriends Spotlight. Our first two series introduce you to an incredible gang of women who teamed up to fight injustice, showing just how powerful sisterly solidarity can be.

We're keeping this mission alive with The Girlfriends Spotlight. Each week, a different woman sits down with me, Anna Sinfield, to share their incredible story of triumph over adversity. Like June, who founded an all-female rock band in the 1960s. I might as well have said, we're gonna walk on the moon.

But she sure showed them who's boss and toured the world. They would just be gobsmacked and they would rush up after the set and say, not bad for chicks. So come and join our girl gang. Listen to The Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm come to you.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty. And if you've ever felt the weight of letting go, of people, past versions of yourself, or the expectations placed on you, this episode is for you. Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation, and finding real peace in a world that constantly tries to define you. It's not me anymore. Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me and that disconnect is

depressing. The Grammy goes to Lizzo. I think it's also hard when the things that you stand for are the same things that you're being scrutinized for. The weight that is no longer on me is not just fat or physical. I released so much to get to this point. And to be honest with you, I don't feel like I've expressed myself fully in the last two years. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you? Why is my cat not here and I go in and she's eating my lunch? Or if hypnotism is real? You will use this suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

But what's inside a black hole? Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe. Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart Original Podcast, Science Stuff. Join me Jorge Cham as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies. Questions like, can you survive being cryogenically frozen? This is experimental. This means never work for you. What's a quantum computer? It's not just a faster computer. It performs in a fundamentally different way. Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming? It's not really a safety issue. It's not just a faster computer. It performs in a fundamentally different way. Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming? It's not really a safety issue.

It's more of a comfort issue. We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy-to-understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to science stuff on the iHeart Video app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. the iHeartVideo app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back. Okay. Um, this recap might be messy. We'll see. It's a messy movie. It's a messy movie. Emma, feel free to jump in whenever. You know the show. Okay.

The movie opens mid-Quitus, a married couple are fucking. This is Romy Mathis played by Nicole Kidman and her husband, Jacob played by Antonio Banderas of Puss in Boots slash Shrek fame. And I think that that's his entire filmography. Basically it. That's what he's known for. Yeah. Yeah, I noticed that that's his entire filmography. That's basically it. That's what he's known for.

Yeah, I noticed that, and then I refused to investigate it further, that both of the men in this movie that are the sexual interests have biblical names, and then I was just sort of like, huh, and then I just kept watching. So, maybe that means something. If it does, I don't know what it means, but there it is for you Bible heads out there.

Tell me what it means. Who's Jacob, who's Samuel? I don't know. I didn't get confirmed. Yeah, I have no idea who those people are in the context of the Bible. But anyway, Romy and Jacob finish and Romy immediately goes into the other room and masturbates in secret as if the sex she just had wasn't entirely satisfactory. What a wild concept. Let's put a pin in that, shall we? And maybe we even put, we thrust a rock hard pin in that. Caitlin, that's absolutely naughty of you.

Oh, sorry. I do feel like it's important that the porn she watches is like BDSM porn. It's like daddy Dom porn. Oh, I didn't notice. I couldn't really tell. Yeah, it's, you know, I feel like the guy is calling the woman

he's fucking little girl and making, like asking her to beg for it. Yeah. Okay. I was paying too much attention to how she was masturbating because I was like, I feel seen here in this moment and then I won't say any more about it. The most upsetting thing about the whole movie to me is that after she comes, she just shuts her laptop.

She doesn't clear her browser history. She doesn't exit out of incognito mode. Who does that? Oh, I do. Someone who's so powerful. Oh, really? Well, I guess I just, no one else has the password. No one else has my fingerprint.

Gotcha. So I'm just, it is kind of funny to jump scare yourself later in the day by being like, oh, right. That's where I was at at 4 a.m. for some reason. It's a fun little game. You can play with yourself. That's my BDSM is. But I leave up on my computer for myself reason. It's a fun little game you can play with yourself. That's my BDSM. It's what I leave up on my computer for myself later.

Well, I chalked it up to someone so powerful enriches her has to have so much hubris that she's like, there are no consequences to my actions. Oh, like she just like lights her laptop on fire at the end of every day. Yeah, and just buys a new one. Like disposable contacts contacts Yeah, it is that they are in that level of wealth which Nicole Kidman, you know, that's her thing beige Wealth with somehow a bad wig. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's a really bad way. It's kind of her signature at this point Well, that's what I thought you were gonna talk about and instead you talked about her Australian accent

But we've also got that length about Nicole Kidman's wigs. I support her wigs. Anyway we learn more about Romy she is the CEO of a huge Amazon like corporation automation warehouse delivery AI something something don't really understand. And we're sort of like, yes. Exactly. Go off, girl. It's very pink pussy hat of her to do that. She's also the mother of two teenagers, Isabelle and Nora, played by Esther McGregor

and Von Reilly respectively. On Romy's way to work, an aggressive dog is about to attack her on the street until a young man manages to get the dog under control. This is Samuel will officially meet him shortly played by Harris Dickinson. Now at work we meet Romy's assistant Esme, played by Sophie Wilde who introduces Romy to a group of company interns one of whom is this Samuel guy and he asks this like bold and like condescending question about the company and Romy's like um what the fuck. Well it's like he also is like do you think that he an Amazon intern is like is Amazon ethical or what this never comes back to or what? This never comes back, to be clear. Like, this never comes back.

I think it is just supposed to, this was one of the clunkier writing moments for me, where I was just like, I think that's just supposed to endear his character to the younger audience watching, because everyone knows Amazon is bad. But his character doesn't really care. I mean, whatever, didn't know what to make of it.

Right, and to be clear, it's clear, it's condescending in the, for Romy, I was like, yeah, exactly, Samuel, great question. But she's like, ew, gross, who is this asshole? But they make eyes at each other. They're like really perceiving each other. A little later, they run into each other. They chat briefly about how he got that dog to calm down, how she shouldn't drink so much coffee and we're like, hmm, wonder what dynamic

is going to emerge here? Then that night at home, Romy very shyly asks Jacob if they can try some new things in bed, but he's not very receptive to it and they just end up having like pretty regular vanilla hetero sex. Cut to the company party. At one point, Romy steps outside and Samuel comes out as well

and he tells her he chose her to be his mentor for this like company intern mentorship program and she's like that's not possible I'm not a part of that program and he's like yes it is and yes you are my mentor and she's like oh okay. The next day at the office Romy finds Samuel's discarded necktie on the floor that he like tossed aside at the party. And she goes into her office and like rubs her face and lips on it. She kind of like eats it.

Horribly, she kind of has like mouth sex with it. Yeah, she goes from like sniffing it to like trying to snort it to shoving the whole thing in her mouth. Yeah, yeah, it's very horny. Then it's time for Romy and Samuel's first meeting for this mentorship program. Romy doesn't really have the time for this.

She doesn't want to be there, and she makes that pretty clear to Samuel. But he, like, dominantly stands his ground. And they get to talking about power and whether or not Romy likes having power and Samuel says I think you like to be told what to do and then they both kind of acknowledge that that was inappropriate but when she goes to leave he stops her from leaving their faces are like hovering around each other and then they kiss for a few moments. But then Romy's like,

sorry, this shouldn't happen, and she leaves. Maybe like a week or a few days pass. Time is confusing. Time is so confusing in this movie because it seems to be Christmas the entire time. Yeah, yeah. But it never seems cold because they're like outside swimming.

But they're in New York, right? And they're in New York. We don't know. We just don't know how time works in this universe. It's a heated pool. Oh, yeah. The pools are always steamy. Yeah, you're just like, I guess that that's, sometimes I'm just like, I'm sure that billionaires

have that, I don't know. I mean, it's a house in the Hamptons, because it took me forever to figure out that they have like probably an apartment in Manhattan and then a separate house probably in the Hamptons or maybe upstate, I don't know, but like a whole estate with a huge pool and everything. I was like, where do they live? But it's like two separate places, you know, rich people stuff.

Okay, so they've just had their little meeting and she like runs off some time passes and Samuel approaches her It seems like Romy hasn't responded to a request to like schedule another meeting between them And she tells Samuel that his behavior is totally out of line, but she's like, mmm, but I'll still think about meeting with you again Then Romy goes out for drinks with like some company staff. Her assistant Esme is there. She has been wanting to talk to Romy about a possible promotion, but Romy keeps kind of blowing her off. This moment I thought was really fascinating where it like the

movie makes it clear where she's at where Esme is asking for, you know, basically professional affirmation and for advancement in this career that she's clearly busting her ass at. And Romy is on autopilot giving her affirmations while not listening to her at all and thinking about something totally different, which I do think that this movie does have things to say

about girl boss feminism, but maybe just doesn't quite stick the landing in the way I would want. But I thought that that was interesting that they made that very clear that it's like, oh, she's, you know, she says she's for women, but it's because that's what you quote unquote had to do to be a successful woman and not be called evil. Right. I feel like as May is second wave feminism incarnate. Right, cause she's like, I wanna help other women get to the, climb the corporate ladder and suck on capitalism's dick

along the way. Yeah, yeah. She's lucky Esme is pulling from the playbook that she is. It's very, yeah, it's all very nihilistic. Right. So anyway, they're at this like drinks thing and Samuel is also there and he sends over a glass of milk to Romy

and she drinks it while they make eye contact. And then as the night is winding down, he walks past her and whispers, good girl. And we're like, ah. And we're kind of like, I mean, come on, come on. That was good. That was good. That was good.

Meanwhile, Romy is managing her life at home. Her daughter, Isabel, seems to be dating a couple different people where she's in love with someone, but she's also fooling around with the neighbor girl. And Romy is like, hmm, interesting premise. Maybe I'll try that. And her husband, Jacob, is directing a play. Romy goes to see it, but she leaves right after, even though Jacob is like, hey, I need

you by my side. And she's like, sorry, I'm too busy initiating an affair with someone else. And also, I couldn't fully tell what the play was about, but it seems like that is his zone of projection, is through his work, is where he projects whatever's going on with him, and she is not present enough to see what his, I don't know, he's an interesting character, I think.

His flavor of internalized misogyny is interesting. For sure. The play that they're doing, Hedda Gabler, seems very intentional. It was like the modern Hedda, like that whole, you're like, okay, with this screen, like what's going on? Yeah, and when she comes in when they're rehearsing,

it's the scene where a man is like pointing a gun at a woman and she's like leaning into it. And this shows you how much I know about theater because I don't really know what that is. I'm not familiar with the play. I read it in high school. It's a great play, it's a great play. I don't know, I mean, I know that there's been

plenty of adaptations, like film adaptations of it. I don't know that I've ever seen one though. But yeah, it seemed like a very like, it reminded me of like the current adaptation of Sunset Boulevard that's like playing on Broadway with Nicole Schertzinger. It's like a similar thing. Not that play exactly, but like the modern,

like now we're using screens and you're seeing it from, I think you're seeing Hedda Galbra from like the point of view of the gun and you're like, whoa. He was doing a hashtag modern, hashtag theater piece. So true, so true. Yeah. But Romy's too busy to be interested in his career. His theater kid bullshit, yeah.

And she gets a note from Samuel to meet her at a hotel the next day. So she goes to the hotel and she's like, I'm here to tell you that your behavior is unacceptable and we need to put an end to this. But an end is not put to this. He, you know, kind of assumes this role of Dom and he tells her to get on her knees.

This all seems to be quite new to her. And you can kind of see her confusion and inner turmoil, but she's turned on by the fact that he has power over her because he could make one phone call and end her career, her family, you know, he could turn her life upside down. And he says this and she's like, hubba hubba. Oh my God. And then he's like, hubba hubba. Oh my God. And then he's like, does that turn you on when I say that?

And the whole audience is like, yes. Yes it does to her. Which to me again, I was like, I thought that was gonna go somewhere where it was like, oh, she, I mean, she's clearly aware that what she's doing is not good, but then it turns out it might just be a kink thing and she doesn't care.

Yeah. I still feel like it's important to say that Samuel is not physically threatening in any way. He acts like a little boy in a lot of ways. And when she goes to leave, she gets to the door and then turns around and runs back to him. I feel like the whole movie, she's going back and forth between I want this, this is unacceptable.

And she just kind of doesn't know what she wants. No, she doesn't. So unrelatable. So eventually she starts doing what he tells her to do. She gets on all fours, she eats candy out of his hand, then spits it back out all per his instructions. And then he jerks her off and she has an orgasm. Like laptop style too.

Not that he knows that. The way that she was doing it. But he jerks her off laptop style, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And the like guttural, ugh! That she lets out. I was like, you know what?

She was robbed of an Oscar nomination. Yeah, tell me about it. She was. And I loved that. My nipples, I already know that's where my nipples are going. That was a performance. To that guttural orgasm sound. She had to dig deep to find that.

I hope she did a lot of research at home for that one. Yeah, wait, who's her husband in real life? Keith Eben, fellow Australian. Yeah, I hope he gives her orgasms like that. I mean, that has to be the great part of, you know, being a famous actress is like coming home and being like, guess what, you have to make me cum so much, or I'm gonna do a bad job at work.

It's R&D. Gauntlet thrown, figure it out. Okay, so then we cut to a montage of Romy and Samuel's torrid affair. Romy is also balancing her home life. She comes home one day and Samuel is there. He had brought her laptop from work because she forgot it there.

He's hanging out with her husband and two kids. And then when they're alone, Romy tells Samuel to never show up at her house again, and then she effectively ends their relationship. Reasonable, I think. Yeah. Quite scary when he does that. He does not behave reasonably. He has a very angry outburst and he storms off. Then at work, he tells her that he doesn't feel comfortable working for her anymore and that he's going to request to be transferred to a different department.

And she's like, you can't do that, they'll investigate why, and I could get fired, but he doesn't care and he leaves. Again, kind of fair. Reasonable, yeah. Because every time I felt myself starting to be on Romy's side, I'm like, wait a second, tremendous abuse of fair. Reasonable, yeah. Because every time I felt myself starting to be on Romy's side, I'm like, wait a second, tremendous abuse of power. What am I, it's like he's welcome to do

whatever the fuck he wants, but then also scary of him to show up at her house. I don't know, we'll talk about it. I think they're both behaving. Maybe quite scary. Not well. But that doesn't make what she's doing appropriate, whatever. Right, totally. At home, Romy confesses to Jacob Well, but that doesn't make what she's doing appropriate. Whatever right totally

At home Romy confesses to Jacob that she has never had an orgasm with him He's like what and then she leaves and goes to the bar where Samuel works to try to talk to him But he refuses and basically has her kicked out the next day but he refuses and basically has her kicked out. The next day, Jacob is like, did you mean that thing you said when you've never had an orgasm with me? And she was like, JK, no. She, cause she lies a lot.

I was tired, I was tired. I mean, that is, that is hard to bounce back from. I mean, that is- It's hard to walk that one back, yeah. Right, 19 years, no coming. It has to be said, but impossible to take back. I really, I mean, I do appreciate that this movie has some sort of just whatever,

a good marriage in some ways, but like if you're sexually incompatible, that is going to inevitably come up at some point in your marriage. And that's like a reasonable request. I don't know. It's interesting. It's interesting. It's interesting.

Totally. So then at work, Romy has another meeting with Samuel. They discuss like picking their relationship back up, but setting some ground rules such as the rule is he tells her what to do and she does it Consensually because they talk about consent and trust and By the end of the meeting she says I'll do whatever you tell me to do and he's like good and he leaves Mid playing with her pussy because he started playing with her pussy during this conversation And then he says good and then runs out. We're like

during this conversation. And then he says, good, and then runs out. And we're like, ah. We're like, ah. Cut to a fancy hotel room. Samuel has Romy take her dress off. She's feeling insecure. He tells her she's beautiful, that she's his baby girl. That's the name of the movie.

Cheering. Cue another horny montage. They kiss and fuck and stuff. He also has her lap milk out of a saucer. There also seems to be some cuddling and aftercare. And a lot of dancing. And lots of dancing. Which is the most vulnerable thing they do with each other,

in my opinion. It feels like, right. That would be the hardest thing for me to do, because I'm like, I'm weird, sorry. Anyways. They also establish a safe word, Jacob, AKA Rommie's husband's name. Which is an unhinged choice for a safe word.

I was like, she was nasty for that. She was nasty for that. Meanwhile, he's directing Head of Gabler, minding his own business, like, she was nasty for that. She was nasty for that. Meanwhile, he's directing Head of Gabler, minding his own business. Like, come on, not nice. I also find it interesting that they don't establish a safe word until an hour and 15 minutes into the movie. I'm like, shouldn't this have happened earlier?

It absolutely should have. But also, I feel like I have said this over and over again every time I'm talking to like a kinky person who didn't like this movie, but this movie is not an instruction manual on how to do kink. Which is what I didn't understand at first when I saw this, I was like,

oh, is this supposed to be like good representation of kink? And I realize now that like, that's not necessarily true. Well, yeah, I think that that's like a conversation that we should have in general. Yeah, because it's just like, this is a big third, fourth wave feminist thing that we have to get through. We'll circle back.

Yes. Yeah, we'll circle back. Okay, so sometime later, Romy is throwing a party at her house and she has invited her assistant Esme, who brings Samuel because surprise, Esme and Samuel are dating. Diabolical. Yeah, I was not expecting that one.

Twist of the century. Esme, innocent girl boss, girl boss down. Yeah. And Romi says to Samuel, she's like, I don't want you seeing other women, you're mine. But before they can continue that discussion, Esme walks in on them and they're like kind of mid embrace, if you can call it that.

Yes, and of course this makes Samuel's pee-pee hard, hearing that he belongs to her. And it's just like, my poor girl boss catching a stray. But as revenge, she will become presumably the most evil person in the world. So what can you do? Seems like she's really on that path, yeah. Yeah.

Later at work, Romy pulls Esme into her office and Esme thinks they're gonna talk about her promotion, like her future at the company, but instead Romy asks Esme about Samuel and tells her to be careful because she's in a position of power over him since he's an intern and we're like, um, hello, like pot calling the kettle black much? Yeah.

No, Caitlin, that was feminism that you witnessed. That was. Think about it, really think about it, yeah. Yeah, sorry, sorry. That was villain behavior. It was wild, yeah. That night, Romy meets up with Samuel at a nightclub because he's like, I wanna see you.

And I know that I'm getting old because the scene at this nightclub, I was like, oh my God, sensory overload. I was also very stressed out. It was so stressful. I was also very stressed out. So stressful. I think there is not an age where I would have been comfortable in that situation, but I celebrate that, I mean, they exist,

so they're for somebody. They're for people. I did shit like that in my early 20s, and now I'm like, oh, my earplugs wouldn't be strong enough for the music in there. I'd have a migraine the next day. I'd have to stay up past my bedtime. I guess my thing is like, it's very possible that maybe like,

I mean, we don't, we know very little about Romy's background. We know that she was, like grew up in possibly some sort of like very restrictive religious cult like environment. So I'm like, maybe these are experiences that she was deprived of when she was younger, that she's like, that she's wanting to experience. That's the only way I can get there being like, maybe these are experiences that she was deprived of when she was younger, that she's wanting to experience. That's the only way I can get there,

being like, I can't, you know, I'm 31 and I wouldn't be caught dead. But what can you do? I don't know. Different strokes, et cetera. Yeah. So anyway, they're at this nightclub and they eventually go somewhere quiet

and talk about Samuel and how he is with Romy versus how he is with Esme and like the different versions of himself and his conduct. The next day Esme approaches Romy to be like, number one, you keep blowing me off every time I try to talk about my promotion. Number two, I know what's going on between you and Samuel. Number three, I'm not blackmailing you, but you can never see Samuel again. And I am sort of blackmailing you.

I'm not blackmailing you, but if you don't promote me, your life is gonna blow up in ways you couldn't possibly imagine. And you're just like, oh no, she's really built for the job. Like that I thought was a very sinister twist when you're just like, oh, Esme is not for other women. She's sort of it, like she thinks she is.

I think she thinks she is. Right, because the other point she makes is number four, you're not an ally to other women, Romy, and you need to do more to lift up other women at the company because that's Esme's whole thing. She like wants to start this initiative that like helps women rise to the top. But this was also an issue I had with,

what was the Zoe Kravitz movie, Don't Blink? Blink Twice. Blink Twice, I was Don't Look Up, I like they all blend together. But yeah, that it's like, more women should have access to the villain space and you're like, I get, no, have we not moved, can we move past? More women should have access to the villain space. And you're like, I get like, no, have we not moved? Can we move past?

More women should have access to the villain space. But you know, I think this movie is trying to say something about that though, at least. Yeah. Ish. Okay, so then Romy tells her husband, Jacob, that she was with someone else, but she's lying a lot through this whole thing,

saying that it was only one time It's someone who Jacob doesn't know even though Jacob does know this person like he and Samuel have met a couple times Romy says that it's someone who she doesn't really even know either. She doesn't know this person's name But that she's always had these like, you know, quote unquote dark dark thoughts and desires. And like she has this fantasy in which like, you know, things have to be at stake for her and all this stuff. And Jacob is furious that she jeopardized their family and their kids. Then I think this is where she goes to the like, the big fancy house and the Hamptons or whatever. Exiles herself to their cushy mansion in the Hamptons.

And this is also Nicole Kidman canon, except when she is, and I say this with love, when she's playing poor to get an Oscar nomination, she doesn't do this. But your stock Nicole Kidman character always has a second house to retreat to. And usually a second wig kept at the second house. Of course, yeah, because the first wig gets wet

in the swimming pool whenever Samuel pulls her into the pool. There's the pool wig in the shed, there's the transit wig on the private jet, and then there's the vacation wig in the Hamptons. So she's exiled, but she still has 5,000 square feet. She's good. She's good, because Samuel has showed up

at her Hamptons house, and he's just in her pool. So they're lightly stalking each other throughout the movie. And she's like, you can't be be here because Jacob might come in and that's exactly what happens. Jacob walks in on Samuel and Romy just when they're talking but like maybe having the first honest conversation with each other they've had the whole movie right because they're talking about how they've like kind of played mind games with each other. Jacob comes in and sees this. And so he and Samuel have a little scuffle.

Things calm down a bit after a while. They talk some. Jacob has a panic attack, which Samuel comforts him through. And it's very touchy and intimate. And I'm like, you guys should kiss. Oh my God, right? They don't.

Can this please turn into like. But then you're like, yeah, I get that it's not the time, but how interesting would it be? But what if? Because in that moment, like, Antonio Banderas is the wounded dog. He's the baby girl. Harris Dickinson can't stop helping the baby girl.

He was born to help the baby girl. Yes. But after this, Samuel leaves for good because we cut to Romy's office. As May has been promoted, Samuel has been transferred to Japan. Another like higher up at the company, I think his name is Sebastian.

Yes. He hints to Romy that he knows what was going on between her and Samuel and that he's like gonna hang that over her head. And then Romy says, don't ever talk like that to me again, if I want to be humiliated, I'll pay someone to do it. Now get the fuck out of my office. God bless. Which is yeah, but then at this point, at this point, for me, every empowerment moment very much ends in a question mark.

You're like, woo? I mean, obviously you're not rooting for Sebastian, but you're also like, impossible for me to root for Romy at this point, but I don't object to her coming. It seems like that would have solved a lot of her problems. I don't know, I don't know. There's much to be said.

Right, and then the movie ends with Romy and Jacob rekindling their relationship. They're trying a sex thing that she wants to try, which is basically the thing that Samuel did to her in the first hotel room, which is also similar to the way that she masturbates. So that's how the movie ends. So it opens and ends with, you know, sexual contact between Romy and Jacob. That's the movie. Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to

discuss. Tariff whiplash is real, folks. In rapidly changing economic policies, they affect all of us to one degree or another. Trump 1.0, so that was more tariff talk. Now we are experiencing the widespread tariff action. Totally scattershot, totally random. The theory, Matt, I think is that we're trading short-term pain for long-term gain. That's the tariff theory at least but I have a hard time envisioning the long game rosy outcomes if these policy priorities kind of continue It can be hard to know how to react to news of accelerating layoffs increasing stock market volatility

That's why the how to money podcast exists We cut through the hype to give you crucial information that can help you to achieve your money goals No matter what is going on in the world. Yeah, it's our goal to help you make wise money choices that will allow you to build wealth over time and reduce anxiety levels so you can sleep well at night. How to Money comes out three times a week, but our Friday Flight episodes speak directly

to what's happening in the financial news so you can digest this week's headlines without freaking out. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The number one hit true crime podcast, The Girlfriends, is back with something new, The Girlfriends Spotlight. Our first two series introduce you to an incredible gang of women who teamed up to fight injustice, showing just how powerful sisterly solidarity can be. We're keeping this mission alive with the Girlfriend Spotlight.

Each week a different woman sits down with me, Anna Sinfield, to share their incredible story of triumph over adversity. Like June, who founded an all-female rock band in the 1960s. I might as well have said, we're gonna walk on the moon. But she sure showed them who's boss and toured the world. They would just be gobsmacked and they would rush up after the set and say, not bad for chicks. So come and join our girl gang. Listen to The Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty. And if you've ever felt the weight of letting go, of people, past versions of yourself, or the expectations placed on you, this episode is for you. Lizzo opens up like never before about self-love, transformation, and finding real peace

in a world that constantly tries to define you. It's not me anymore. Whoever Lizzo is to the world is not really even me, and that disconnect is depressing. The Grammy goes to Lizzo is to the world is not really even me and that disconnect is depressing. The Grammy goes to Lizzo. I think it's also hard when the things that you stand for are the same things that you're being scrutinized for. The weight that is no longer on me is not just fat or physical. I released so much to get to this point. And to be honest with you,

I don't feel like I've expressed myself fully in the last two years. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you? Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch. Or if hypnotism is real? You will use this suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control. But what's inside a black hole?

Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe. Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart Original Podcast, Science Stuff. Join me, Jorge Cham, as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies. Questions like, can you survive being cryogenically frozen? This is experimental. This means never work for you. What's a quantum computer? It's not just a faster computer. It performs in a fundamentally different way. Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming? It's not really a safety issue. It's more

of a comfort issue. We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy to understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Science Stuff on the iHeart Video app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. And we're back. Where to begin? Emma, we're going to let we're back. Where to begin? Emma, we're gonna let you take the reins here.

We're giving you, will you dom us with your- Yeah, you can tie us up and- Will you dom us with your knowledge because- I'm really more of a sub, but I'll do my best. Okay, okay. Right, I'm the dom, I'm doming this. I'm most comfortable as a sub, so I'm happy to take a back seat here.

Caitlin is daddy. Yes, daddy girl. I'm doming this. I'm most comfortable as a sub. So I'm happy to take a back seat here. Caitlin is daddy. Yes. Daddy girl. You're my baby girls. I guess like the first thing that really stood out to me about this movie is the way that it focuses on her pleasure. I have never seen that in like a Hollywood mainstream movie. I never thought I would be sitting in a movie theater,

watching a high budget movie where there are sex scenes that only focus on the woman's face. Yeah. It's just about her pleasure. Like there's a scene where you see her like unbuckling Samuel's pants and it's implied that she's about to give him a blowjob. And then it cuts away

because it really just focuses on her pleasure. And also just the fact that she's an older woman, granted she has been, she's had a lot of plastic surgery to make her look younger, which is confusing, because I'm like, part of me wants to see a more typical like 50 something year old woman, but also it fits her character so well.

She's the kind of person that would have all of the plastic surgery that Nicole Kidman has had. And that it was acknowledged in text. In a way that I- You see her getting Botox. Yes, and honestly, I wish that was more fully explored. One of the dynamics that I do wish was more fully explored was the one between her and her teenage daughter,

which comes up a few times throughout the movie. And there might not have been space between, it's already a pretty long movie, but there is one moment where her, which daughter is it? I couldn't remember the names of the daughters. Isabel is the one that she has a lot more interactions with? Yes, Isabel, who they're like, our bond is we are cheaters. And, but Isabel early early on when they're having

Christmas pictures taken basically explicitly criticizes her mom for getting Botox and shames her for it in a way that like my mom never had Botox but I remember as a teenage girl criticizing my mom's appearance in a way that must have been very painful for her in a way that to me at the time, for whatever reason, felt empowering to me.

And I think that that is a pretty common, not prescriptive, but like a common thing between mothers and daughters is that criticism of each other's bodies throughout your life. And seeing that presented, especially in a way that like, if you know anything about, I mean, you don't need to know about Nicole Kidman's career trajectory to understand that moment,

but I did think it was impactful, like in the context of her career, because she has been publicly scrutinized quite a bit for the plastic surgery she's gotten. I don't think she's really spoken on it extensively, not that she has to, you know? But I thought it was interesting that she chose this project where that interaction takes place,

where she is being shamed by her own daughter for having this work done, but also it's clear that this is a part of the role that she feels like she needs to play in order to succeed, which thankfully Nicole Kidman is not Jeff Bezos, but she lives in a society and it fits the role. I totally agree, but I feel like that's part of the convenience of the class setting of this movie,

which is like a part of the sort of mehness I have. Anyways, sorry, I interrupted you Emma. I started doming, I'm sorry. I'm getting back on my knees. We're all, we're just, we're switching. We're switches, we're switching on this episode. In the substance episode y'all did the other day, I think Jamie, you said something about how an older woman's naked body is never shown

unless it's a horror movie or unless it's supposed to be a scary moment. And I was like, not in baby girl. Yeah. True. We did. Yeah. And I love that you see, yeah, like the focus on a woman's pleasure, the onscreen representation of a woman orgasming,

of a woman masturbating, this has been historically so rare to see in mainstream media that's not porn. Especially seeing true blue laptop style masturbation is like, maybe I've seen it in a movie before, but if so, maybe once or twice. Like true laptop style masturbation, it's a classic, it's a classic for a reason,

and it's nice to see it in a movie. I don't think that a male director would have known, be like, just do it laptop style, you know? Yeah, no, he doesn't know. It works. A lot of the, to go back to like the criticisms from people in the King community, a lot of people have said like,

it would be better if consent was established earlier, it would be better if they communicated more clearly, or if like either of them knew what the fuck they were doing. And while like, yes, I agree with that, they're also essentially saying like, this movie would be better if there was no conflict. And that's not how movie works. Right. And again, it's not it's not an instruction manual. It's a story about two fucked up people figuring their shit out. Right. So I've every time I watch this, I just can't help but become hyper focused on Samuel's behavior. And

part of me was like, maybe this is just not me knowing enough about this Dom sub dynamic. And like, particularly when it's like the Dom is a man, the sub is a woman. I was like, maybe I'm just like, misunderstanding. But what I do know was like, maybe I'm just like misunderstanding. But what I do know is like, there does need to be more open communication right off the bat. There does need to be very clear boundaries and safe words established and obviously consent

throughout the whole experience every time is vital. And we just don't see very much of that, at least not as much as I would have liked to see. And what we see instead, at least as far as I'm interpreting it, is Samuel exhibiting various signs of abusive behavior. He's often ignoring her boundaries. He often barrels past her saying no.

There's like a whole list I wrote out of all the times where she tries to establish a boundary or she says no, there's like a whole list I wrote out of all the times where she tries to establish a boundary or she says no, or she says stop, or she says I can't do this, and he just like completely ignores it and barrels through it. Prior to there being rules established. Exactly. Like, because that sets a really bad precedent that no means yes, and then if you just keep blowing past the no, you'll wear the person down until they do agree and consent because that's what happens in a lot of these scenes where he barrels past her saying no,

she eventually relents, and then it does seem like she's consenting to what happens next, but that's not how this dynamic should go. And so, I mean, I think that is, when I said earlier, like that this is not a good representation of a Dom sub dynamic, I think it's probably authentic in many cases, again, like a lot of what I've experienced,

what we see in this movie is emblematic of that, but it's not representative of a like healthy dynamic, but also like I wish, I guess I wish that the movie, to me the movie didn't make it as clear as I would have wanted it to be, that this is an unhealthy toxic example of this dynamic, but curious to hear your thoughts on that, Emma. Yeah, well first of all, I get the impression

that Samuel also came into that relationship with no background understanding of Kink. It seemed like he picked up on the fact that Romy was into that and was sort of stepping into that role. A pleasure dom, you might call it. So I think they're both figuring it out, which is not how you're supposed to do it.

But I don't know. I also feel like Romy, I feel like they're both really toxic in the way they behave to each other because Romy is constantly- Because she is his boss. She is Jeff Bezos. And first of all, like the power dynamic

is so like carefully constructed in this movie because like she's as high above him at work as she could possibly be, but she's the sub. And you know, he's a he's a man. So he has that privilege over her. Like, it's just all of these checks and balances that is really helpful. Whereas like, the relationship I was in that was fucked up with someone at work, he was in addition to to being my superior, he was also the dominant one. And that was terrible.

There needs to be some kind of balance there. But also, don't fuck people at work who are above or below you is the main thing. Right. It's part of why this movie was so thorny for me. And I honestly don't feel like it's been out long enough for me to have my head fully around it because I had to keep reminding me myself that while I do think that Samuel makes big mistakes and has internalized misogyny of his own to work through that first off

Romy not that this means she should be open to abuse of any kind, but I think if you gender swap this dynamic, it resolves itself pretty quickly. Like if Jeff Bezos is being hit on by a young woman intern, I think that this conversation would be quite different. Because what Romy is doing from a power stance, however you feel about monogamy, because that is a personal journey,

but professionally what she's doing is wrong. And it is predatory on paper what she's doing by engaging with this. And that was, I mean, I think it's like an interesting thing to bring up that the movie doesn't fully resolve, but that also brings me to, I think it's like an interesting thing to bring up that the movie doesn't fully resolve, but that also brings me to, I think Emma, what you were sort of getting to, where it's like, what is the job of a movie

and what is the intended audience, right? Cause this is, you know, if this movie was rated PG, I would be like, this, even if it was rated PG-13, honestly, because then an eighth grader can go see it, right? And not to say that eighth graders don't see our-rated movies. I famously saw Lord of the Rings, part three, in theaters when I should not have.

Okay, bragged. Is that R-rated? It weirdly was. Or maybe it was PG-13. I think it was PG. I think it was PG-13. No, they're PG-13 and I was 11, nevermind. The point is, theoretically,

adults should be seeing this movie. That doesn't mean that they won't, but I'm just- With a critical eye. Right. And so, you know, and this is something that I have mixed feelings on how I've talked about this dynamic on the show in the past. And I feel like my feelings have sort of evolved with time where it is not the job of the movie Baby Girl to teach me what BDSM is. It is the job of the movie baby girl to tell me the story of baby girl. Whether I like that story or not, it's totally up to me. And I do think that there has been enough, you know, not a ton, but there has been discussion of BDSM in the public consciousness enough that I feel like as

an adult, you know, I'm able to view this movie as a pretty vanilla person and decide what I want to take and what I don't you know, I I Guess yeah, like I the more time goes on the more It's like especially when it's a movie directed by a woman who is the age of the character, you know Navigating her own feelings around sexuality. I'm like, yeah, you know, any more than it's Coralie Frasier's job to explain to me how an aging person's body is perceived by society. You know, I don't know, I do think that their relationship is unquestionably messy, but I almost view,

when we talked about this in the past with 50 Shades of Grey, where 50 Shades of Grey does attempt to tell you, this is how this works. And it tells you wrong. You know, it's just, it's like, this is BDSM 101. And it's like, wrong, wrong, wrong, abuse, abuse, abuse. And it's like- Same thing with Secretary. Yeah.

Exactly, which I was gonna point out, there is a piece by friend of the cast, Jordan Searles, who loved this movie in the LA review of books that sort of contrasts these. I have a quote from it to use later, but secretary we were not big fans of because it lays out BDSM just fundamentally incorrectly. Whereas I feel like what we're seeing here, and Emma let me know how you feel about this because I don't know what I'm talking about fully, but just based on experience of, you know, viewing this and talking about it in the past. This movie is not telling you how BDSM works. It's showing you how these characters who are

fundamentally uninformed are working it out in real time and it's messy and it's not correct. And I do think that there are Caitlin speaking to your point, like there are abuse dynamics at present on, not to be like Donald Trump on both sides, but on both sides, there are, I think, abusive dynamics present. It is deeply messy, which makes the conclusion feel a little weird to me, especially on Samuel's side, where he's like, you don't understand how sex works today, and here I go to Tokyo and you're like,

well, that doesn't feel quite right. But I don't know, I felt like this movie at very least is not trying to tell you this is the right way or even this is the way. Cause every other movie I think we've talked about that covers BDSM in general has tried to give you a prescriptive version that was ultimately harmful. Yeah, I don't know.

Also, I don't know. I think this one is, as much as it's toxic, is more realistic than other depictions of it that I've seen, because most people aren't like, hmm, I'm curious about being dominated. I'm gonna read up on it and then go to a dungeon where they teach classes on it and then find a vetted Dom. I feel like a lot of us-

Obviously I would do that. But okay, continue. And there's nothing wrong with it. That's again, that's probably the healthiest way to do it. It would make a boring movie. Yes, yes. I feel like a lot of people, especially women, are ashamed of these desires.

And I know it took me a while to come to terms with, because I'm like an outspoken feminist, and I'm a strong, independent woman, or whatever Romy says she is. And it's weird to square that with. And I like being told what to do. And I want to be bossed around. And I want to be like not in control.

When really it's just that I think the things that we're afraid of often turn into the things that turn us on. It's a subversion. I think it would not, that would not necessarily make a boring movie if it's someone who like wants to do things the healthiest and the most appropriate way.

It's just that you'd have to find conflict elsewhere. The conflict couldn't come from dealing with a toxic abusive partner. It would just have to be like, whatever the person's own insecurities and coming out of their shell and any other number of things that could provide tension in the story. So I guess I would actually really be interested in a story like that. In that movie.

Because for this, again, I just like, it was so hard for me to root for anyone. Because I like to watch movies where I could root for someone. Yeah, I mean, I think this movie is fairly, at least for me, it was so hard for me to root for anyone because I like to watch movies where I could root for someone. And yeah, I mean, I think this movie is fairly, at least for me, it was impossible to root for any. I was rooting for the dog, her son. I was rooting for Isabel the daughter.

And that was like low key it because it's hard to root for Romy since she's like Mrs. Capitalism girl boss, who's exploiting her power over her subordinate It's hard to root for Samuel because again, he's pushy and abusive Like there are other examples of abuse that Samuel is doing besides the ones I mentioned earlier You know, there's like him saying things like we you you show up dressed like this and you expect me to not do anything you show up dressed like this and you expect me to not do anything,

you know, the way that men have often claimed something like, well, she shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt if she didn't want to be assaulted. Or when he has that like angry outburst in the car and he says like, you're making me feel this way. I'm screaming and having an emotional outburst because you made me do that. But that's also in response to her

not letting him get out of the car. He's trying to leave and she locks the door and he's like, let me out. And she says no several times. Totally fair. Yeah, which I'm not saying either of those are the correct thing to do. I'm just like, they're constantly bouncing off of each other

in their toxicity. For sure. Right. And I think that that speaks to both of your points in a way. I feel like I'm like the ping pong net. But I see what you're both saying is the fact that for a lot of the scenes between them in the first half of the movie is I felt myself as if you were being like, are there rules in this?

And I think that they don't know. And that is a very, very risky kind of scary space to be in, in an intimate setting, especially with the power dynamic that they have. And the car, I feel like is sort of like the most extreme of those scenes where they're doing this. And I was like, are you guys fucking with each other? I don't know.

And if I don't know, probably you don't know. Because it's not like this movie really revels in keeping things from the viewer. And so, you know, it is extremely, extremely messy for the first half of the movie. And then once rules are established, things still spiral out of control, but they have an understanding.

And so as a viewer, I weirdly could feel more relaxed in the back half of the movie. Cause I'm like, whatever happens to these motherfuckers, they have an understanding, you know? But I don't, I mean, I don't know. I guess I don't, I mean,

I don't have experience in this world, but it seems like, I mean, Emma, would you say that this is like a fairly realistic like navigation of this to people who are unfamiliar with? I mean, it's not the way that it should be. And my perspective is skewed because I'm basically into the exact same shit that Romy is into.

And I was also like ashamed of it for a while and like uncomfortable generally telling partners how to even get me off. And a big part of me coming to terms with what I'm into was through a very toxic relationship at work. So yeah, so my perspective on this is going to be, it feels very realistic to me is what I'm saying. But yeah, I think a lot of people,

I mean, just like with regular non-kinky relationships, sometimes you have to learn, sometimes you have to make mistakes to learn. And again, this is not the way it should be, this is not healthy, but I do think it's realistic. I just, I mean, yeah, I guess it brings me to just like a general question that I'm like navigating that I think when we started the show versus now I have a different feeling on

Which is like what is the role of a movie to help a viewer on this journey? And I think that a lot of people who I you know I am truly not singling anyone out but just over the last decade that we've been doing this show basically There's been plenty of media critics that are like, it's not the movies job the bubba bubba bubba to you know justify doing something very harmful. But I don't think that that is an irrational line of thought, you know, and and yeah, so so it is just an absurdly gray area. And I think that I used to skew far more to like, if not portraying something completely in a black and white clear way could pose harm, then it's not worth making.

I don't necessarily feel that way now. Yeah. But I don't have a solution to it. And so it's quite messy. I don't either. Yeah, like the classic example of that I'm thinking of is Fight Club, which was a critique of masculinity and then the boys really took it and ran with it. Like written by a gay man, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And like it's just, and what do you do with that? Yeah.

It's really, you know, if we had an answer, this show wouldn't exist, but. It would still exist. We would just keep talking about Shrek every episode. Yeah, so we would just do, we would just air the Shrek episode. It would just keep talking about Shrek every episode. That's true. We would just do the, we would just air the Shrek episode. It would be the Shrek-tel cast. The Shrek-tel cast.

I mean, and that is the show's truest forum. That is also at our peak. But for this, like these movies are very challenging in a way that I appreciate because there isn't an answer for that. And I also feel like it tends to be the movies that are made by women that bring these questions up the most saliently, where it's like, you know,

who am I to fight with a director who is making this for her peers, you know? I don't know, I don't know. I'm interested to watch this movie down the line and see how my view of it changes. Yeah, I wanted to share some quotes from writer director, Helena Raine is maybe how you say her last name. She is a Dutch director.

Yes, and we both really loved Bodies, Bodies, Bodies. I haven't seen it yet. I need to rewatch that. I don't know if I would like it as much on the second viewing. I don't know. I just need to revisit it. Okay, misogynist, that's fine.

Yeah, I hate women, sorry. No, I'm kidding, I enjoyed it. I saw it in the movie theater on a day where it was 110 degrees outside. Wow. So maybe I just loved it because I was not dying. But I remember really liking it. Nice, so I watched a few interviews with Helena

and I wanted to share some quotes. Some of them are kind of long, so bear with me. She did an interview on The Daily Show. I'll paraphrase part of what she said. She spoke to how this movie is like a letter to herself to encourage herself to become more unapologetically her authentic self without shame because she like has spoken about feeling shame over her various desires and fantasies and like was trying to reconcile that partly with this movie.

She also talks about how she wanted it to be funny, how it was marketed as an erotic thriller but she classifies it more as a comedy of manners. She talks about how she loves the erotic thrillers of the 90s such as fatal attraction, basic instinct, unfaithful, nine and a half weeks but that they tend to punish the female lead, the femme fatale, etc. She didn't want wanna punish her characters. She was more interested in exploring their humanity. And I'm also like, well, does a billionaire have humanity? No, but she's like, you know, we all have a dark side. And if you suppress, you know,

your deepest, darkest desires, Allah, what Romy is into, the kinks that we see she's into in the movie, she kind of describes this movie almost as like a cautionary tale of like, this is what can happen if you don't more openly explore those things and you suppress them for so long. She also talked a lot about how a big priority of hers on set was making sure that her actors felt safe

during any scenes and particularly like the intimacy and sex scenes, she wanted them to feel safe both physically and emotionally. We talked about that on the Rye Lane episode, how that director was like- I do wanna talk more about that, yeah. Yeah, I'll keep going with these couple more quotes. Yeah, and then we can kind of dive in.

So now I'm quoting her. She says, quote, I wanted to make a comedy of manners about power, consent, sexuality, and femininity, of course, is my priority. I'm a woman. So I write from the female gaze, I do anything from the female gaze. But the movie is just as much about masculinity. It's not a classical story about a sub and a dom at all. They are both vulnerable. They're both interested in what is power, what is surrender, what is giving up control, what is taking control. They're both in crisis. She's in a full on midlife crisis where she sees the horizon is over there. What am I doing? Where am I going? And she thinks she can be this perfect creature. If she does enough ice baths and Botox and therapy. She can become a perfect woman and she has to accept through meeting Samuel that she has to connect to her inner beast. But him as well, he's in a crisis in the sense that he's taking his first steps into the world as a man and he doesn't

know how to behave, he doesn't know how to be around power, or how to be around an older woman, and I wanted to show that vulnerability. And I think sexuality to me, it can sometimes be very hot of course, but it can be very vulnerable and weird and clunky and uncomfortable. And I wanted to show all of that because when you see that you relate to it and in the, when it does work, then it becomes way more sexy than if you just show this perfect Hollywood fairy tale. I didn't want to do that."

Unquote. Okay. So this is where I felt like the movie kind of polarized me and bit off more than it could chew, where it is trying to tell a story about BDSM and those power dynamics and contrast it with real life class power dynamics. And that was where it fell flat for me in a big way

and it like almost undercut what I thought it did, again, and this is coming from a place of relative inexperience, but, you know, I wish this movie was set in a different class. There are power dynamics within every class. I don't know why we needed to choose literally amazon.com to set this, because that makes Romy so fundamentally unlikable

from moment one. I think that you could have, I mean, and again, if that's her intent, that's her intent. This is just my opinion. But I think that this would have been a sort of like more little piece of gristle to chew on if it took place in like an independently owned, like a woman owned small business

that was big enough and was growing and had interns and you know had sort of like an upstart woman in charge that was all of a sudden you know attracted to an intern. I almost think that that's more interesting because first of all it's easier for audiences to connect with and it's less fundamentally polarizing because no one is for audiences to connect with, and it's less fundamentally polarizing because no one is, this movie is, I feel like, trying to get you to be like, what if Jeff Bezos was girl?

And just couldn't come. And that's another thing that I kind of resent about, and again, feel free to correct me, I think that this is something internalized I have as well, but I always get a little bit frustrated when it's even vaguely implied that the reason that a woman is abusing power is because she's sexually frustrated. I don't like that as a trope, and I think it is not often this told that that is, because we are I think told through this movie that part of the reason she does what she does

is she plays the role that is most advantageous for her to play. And that is because she lives in a society, but that includes faking orgasms and being Jeff Bezos. And that sucks in some ways, but in other ways is quite evil and is killing us. And so it is hard for me to sympathize with her really at the end of the day, like it was hard for me

to connect with her, but I just also, I think that that has been subtly implied in rom-coms throughout time. If like we're talking Sandra Bullock, Two Weeks Notice, she's quote unquote uptight. She just needs to be fucked right and then she will no longer be Jeff Bezos, you know? And I felt like, again,

because I don't feel qualified to speak on the kink issues, I do feel qualified to talk about the class issues, where I think that this movie chooses a very specific class and then under examines it to a pretty wild degree to me. Esme is the closest we get to any sort of examination of this but I just felt like, you know, at the end of the day, and I do think this is really, I don't even know, I'm curious what you both think.

Where ultimately she is the CEO, she does not experience a consequence for doing this. That is very normal, right? But is it normal for her to get a Schwarzenegger style one-liner over on a male coworker who is just below her level and be able to get away with it? I'm not even sure that that's true. I feel like at the end it's like,

oh, she got Sebastian good because if she wants to be humiliated, she'll pay. I'm like, she's still Jeff Bezos. Like, her morality hasn't resolved. That's fine because like we were talking about, it is not the job of the movie Baby Girl to tell me that amazon.com is bad. I just don't understand why it was set there

because it does feel like the end note of like, and now she can come with her husband because she fucked her intern. I'm like, what are, what's going on here? Like, what is the class? I don't, I don't, I, I understand, I just don't understand where it falls class-wise because I feel like it was trying to say something

and where it fell was either inconclusive or too European for me to discern. That is where I fell. My guess is the idea was like, let's create this extreme contrast. Sure. Again, I'm speculating here, but I wonder if it was like,

what would it look like if one of the most powerful women in the world is submissive sexually. Fine, like whatever you have to do to not be Jeff Bezos, do that. Like just do that, I don't know, I don't care. Well I was reminded of your character, Jamie, from Boss Whom Is Girl, Shell Gasoline Sandwich,

especially when you're watching the scenes where she's doing her self-care routine, because I'm like, what the fuck is this? She like goes into this weird ice chamber wearing nothing but like earmuffs and mittens and like a swimsuit. And then she's doing like, and that's how women succeed.

ice plunges and Botox. And then she's doing this. I was not familiar with what type of therapy this is, where you're just like watching a bunch of quick flashes of images and then the therapist is like, how do these make you feel? What is it? Yeah, EMDR.

EMDR, okay, I need to research that. I have done that. I haven't done it with the screens. I've just had it with my therapist reading tweets back at me, but you know. I did like- While you stimulate one side of your body and then another, because it does something to your brain.

Yeah, I did CVS EMDR. So, mostly auditory. I, anyway, I- That's so funny. You know, she's this, it's someone who like, I think on the very, very surface, people in general would who like, I think on the very, very surface, people in general would be like, wow, this is a, this is someone who we should celebrate because she's a strong and powerful

woman who has succeeded in an area largely dominated by men. But we know that it's only because she's like trampled on women along the way while like, again, sucking on the dick of capitalism and AI you know all the stuff that's ruining the world. Right like and but that that is a good criticism of 2010s feminism I think is that like so much of girl boss feminism you know going back to whatever lean in was what 2011 2012 but that whole era of feminism was whatever is keeping you from your success is wrong with you, so step on any woman's head you need to,

and then you'll be Jeff Bezos, and that's feminism. And that was the whole idea. And that is clearly where Romy is coming from, and that's also, like, Esme aspires to a version of that, which I found kind of like, that was one of the more devastating. And the movie intends that, I'm not saying like, how dare the movie,

but like, that was devastating to see that like, Esme, of course she's successful, she's as conniving as Romy would be in that situation 20 years earlier. Is that, you know, Esme is a fan of feminism as far as it goes to giving women access to evil as well. Right, like I love corporate feminism. Right, and that it's also acknowledged, I think,

probably not as overtly as it should be, but that, you know, Esme is ignored not only because of her youth, but because of her race. She's put in this subservient role to Romi. She's the only black woman we get to know remotely well, and she is used by everyone around her. And the reveal, quote unquote, with her is that she is well aware of this.

And she's like, I know that it is impossible to get the promotion that I know I deserve through, you know, merit. Moral means, yeah, because it's like she does deserve it, but who deserves to be Jeff Bezos? You know, like, so it introduces this really, I think, interesting question, but it just doesn't feel like, I just wasn't happy with where the movie landed

because it did, I don't know, did it feel like a happy ending for you both? I felt, to me, too happy of an ending for her. Now she can come. I can't decide how I feel about the ending. I felt like the last, I found the last 15 minutes quite frustrating, honestly. I don't think it's necessarily a happy ending for her,

although it is technically a happy ending because she's coming. Well, sure. But because she's found a way to work some of her desires into her life, but it's largely by fantasizing while she's having sex with her husband. Right. Right. So she's like, her desires aren't like a secret anymore, but she's not fully embracing them.

She's just finding a way to make it work. And also by the implication that she might be like paying for sex. I mean, I would rather that she do that than like fucking her own intern. Absolutely. She has the money. Like I guess, yeah, I guess I do appreciate that it wasn't like as explicit as, and now because all of the events of the movie Baby Girl,

when Antonio Banderas fucks me, I just come normal. Like I appreciate that there is at least like, there is always gonna be these layers of complication, but I don't know. I just, I felt like the movie in general, because of the class setting, ultimately felt too kind of like myopically focused on Romy in a way that really,

and maybe this was the intention, but it really made me work as a viewer to have to constantly pull out to be like, wait, why am I rooting for this woman's happiness? Why am I rooting for this woman's happiness? Yeah, I don't know. I don't even know if I was rooting for anything in particular in this movie.

I was just so taken by the way it shows power. And the way that that evolves throughout the movie, there are several scenes that like, where a scene will happen in the first half and then a similar scene will happen in the second half and the power is totally reversed. Like Esme like meeting with Romy in the beginning and Romy has all of the power

and then at their meeting towards the end, Esme has all of the power and is calling the shots. Or the same with the meeting that Samuel and Romy have, or even in the sex montage towards the beginning, Samuel breaks a cup and has Romy clean it up, and towards the end, Romy drops a plate and Samuel cleans it up. I feel like they're just toppling over what is power,

which is a really interesting question within the BDSM context, because most people will say in a subdom relationship, the sub is the one who has the power. Right. I remember like learning this when we were researching for the 50 Shades of Grey episode, I was like, Oh, I'm surprised. But now it makes perfect sense to me. That was really cute. You had like a book report on kink. Wow, humiliating for me. Our old episodes are simpler times. I also, I guess I want to say that I feel like there would be more context for a movie like this to not have a negative influence if there was more context for kink in media in general. Exactly. Like if there was the movie where it's someone getting into kink and maybe like that isn't the focal point, that isn't the struggle. Like if it was just a thing about someone instead of the central struggle of the movie. I'm going to write this. Okay, please do. Yeah.

Screenwriting degree that I would never talk about. And make it PG-13 so that everyone has to see that movie. I mean, it would be hard to make it PG-13 because the ratings board is so Protestant, but I believe in you. Thank you. Yeah, I think that media literacy does set complicated movies like this backwards. And yet I still do feel like it's biting off

where it can chew. Something I wanted to talk about was something that, because we recently, or two weeks ago, we did our big Oscars show, and I wanted to talk briefly about intimacy coordinators because it was a big conversation around the Oscars this year, primarily because the sort of Oscar sweep movie

of the year, Anora, did not use intimacy coordinators. It was a sort of big talking point of, you know, just because intimacy coordinators are, at least in big budget productions, are relatively new normative thing. Enora was an independent production. They opted to not go with intimacy coordinators. You can read up on that.

But I say that because in late December, there was sort of uprising. There wasn't an uprising. There should be. There was a social meeting. You don't want to start one? We have bigger fish to fry, honestly. If you're doing an uprising over the Enora intimacy coordinator thing,

redirect your energy. Truly. People are dying, Kim. But in any case, there was a conversation, a valid conversation around that, where both Sean Baker and Mikey Madison, who is the star director of Enora, said we opted to not go with intimacy coordinators.

It got a fair amount of criticism. I don't want to comment on that. What I will say is that the crew of this movie, including, and now I have to try to say her name, Helena Raishen, responded to this by saying that Baby Girl did use an intimacy coordinator and got a lot out of it. And that's something that I really appreciated.

Thank God, yeah. Yes, because especially with, and this speaks to your point Emma, the amount of under education that exists in the general public and in media about kink, this is a great example of a movie that absolutely needs an intimacy coordinator. Oh yeah.

So this is from a Deadline article from late December of last year called Baby Girl Director praises intimacy coordinators for achieving quote more extreme sex scenes unquote. I just wanted to share a quote from the director from that. She says, I'm also against people who are saying no, actress didn't want an intimacy coordinator that makes no sense it is also for your safety as a director and for everyone what if there is a misunderstanding it's just amazing to have a person like that on set and if you are creative and talented enough of a director you can pull it off trust me you just have to go a little bit through your own discomfort

and then you will discover a whole new world of creativity and possibilities. I have only worked with an intimacy coordinator once, but I will say it makes a big difference. It is very uncomfortable pretending to fuck a stranger and having someone there who is your person. I know that, and again, whatever, however an actor feels is however they feel.

I don't wanna say that anyone is wrong for feeling one way or another, but I appreciated that the cast and crew of Baby Girl very much came forward in favor of this being normalcy in a Hollywood production. Because I think that the risk outweighs the benefit very much in that situation. And that kind of reminds me of just like having

a conversation about a weird sex thing before you do it. Like some people will be like, oh, it's just hotter if you just do it. And it's like, yes, sure, maybe sometimes, but it can be as hot with a conversation before and you have more potential to get more out of it. And in the grand scheme of things, it's a better practice.

For sure. So I do appreciate that ultimately, like knowing that the crew of this movie was very much considering the safety and comfort of their actors, that made me think higher of the movie in general, honestly. Because if this movie had come out on the opposite side of that, because without getting to it, but knowing that intimacy coordinators, they were like, no thanks for Anora, made me think less of that movie.

And knowing that there were intimacy coordinators here made me think more of this movie. Because I think the clarification that I haven't really seen made in the public eye is that an intimacy coordinator is not going to be like, you can't do that. At least in my experience, they're just like, what are you comfortable doing? Where are your boundaries?

And how can I help you perform around your boundaries? They're not there to tell you, do not do this because it will look too horny on screen, or like, they're not trying to make the scenes less hot. They're trying to manage your boundaries and your partner's boundaries while achieving the director's vision and that is like a very important role because a director is doing 15 different things. It is very easy to lose the actor's comfort if you as an actor are like, uh-huh I

feel fine, like you know, because you don't want to slow things down because there's 20 people looking at you and you wanna put your bra back on. So it is a very, I don't know, I think it's an important role to have available. If everyone chooses to forgo it, that's another story. Again, we're not covering Enora, but I just am glad that the crew of this movie stood up

for that role as normalcy on an erotic thriller set. Yeah. Absolutely. The other thing that made me think higher of this movie is the final quote that I'll share from director Halina Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, Rein, quote, "'For me, making this movie is going into the areas of myself where I feel incredible shame because I'm like, I'm a strong woman. How is it then that I want a man to be dominating me

or protecting me? And so I think it's very liberating to create stories about it." She goes on to say, "'As long as you do it in a safe space and you ask consent, there's nothing wrong with it, then you should celebrate your kink. But this of course is happening because Romi,

this being like the plot of the movie, this is of course happening because Romi doesn't allow that to be there. And that's why it comes out with a much younger man in a situation that is of course morally wrong, unquote. So like, again, she's acknowledging like, the events of this movie are not, like this is not what you should do.

This is not like a guidebook. This is what it looks like when you are suppressing your desires and you're not letting yourself fully explore them and you're just sort of fumbling around with the first person who seems to notice that you have these desires, and they're both handling it poorly.

So I'm glad that the director acknowledges that, because again, I went into this first screening of it being like, what was this takeaway here exactly? Was I supposed to be rooting for these people? Was I supposed to be like a fan of their connection? Because I was not. But yeah, I'm glad that now that I have like a clearer understanding of the director and writers,

the writer-directors vision, I'm like, oh, okay, then you've achieved what you were going for then. So, you know, I, this, what I really want is, it's just like you were speaking to Emma, more movies that do show a healthy Dom sub BDSM dynamic in which the conflict is coming from elsewhere and not like toxicity that might be present in that dynamic.

And preferably, this is like, you know, the directors only have so much control over this, but like, preferably directed to a younger audience because there's only so much, you know, a director who will only be granted an R rating can be held accountable for. It's hard, because it's like you don't know until the movie's done, and then it's back and forth

with studios and back and forth with programmers being like, okay, what needs to be taken out for this movie to be deemed quote unquote appropriate, which is always gonna be attuned to what the sensibilities of the time are, And that makes me feel worried because the times are not good, folks. I thought too great. I want to say that while I do think

this can be an accurate depiction of how people discover or explore their kinks on a one-on-one basis without knowing what they're doing, it is absolutely nothing like what the kink community looks like. Like at kink events, they are not this glamorous. They are so nerdy. They're not wearing beige and bad wigs.

There's no beige. I've never seen beige at a kink party. And it's not like, I feel like a lot of this movie is about the actual sense of danger. And that's all manufactured at a BDSM party. And there are like great lengths gone to to make sure that everything is consensual. BDSM parties are really strict

about alcohol and drugs usually. Like the dungeon here in Chicago has a bar where you can go get a diet coke because they don't want anyone being inebriated. They're usually dungeon monitors that are like checking up on things and making sure everyone seems into what they're doing. There will be like a safe word for the whole dungeon.

So everyone knows if something's going wrong. That's great, yeah. Upon watching this movie and like, you know, the sex parties I've been to, wee woo wee woo. I was like, oh, these are not the same. Yeah. This is not what this looks like. Yeah, was there anything else anyone wanted to talk about

regarding baby girl? Another thing that was a big takeaway for me the first time I saw it was when Samuel's like, I could make one call and it would be over for you. I was like, wow, that's not how it was for me when I was having a secret relationship with my manager. If I made one call, then it would, everyone would assume I was lying and I would get fired.

Wonder what the difference there is. Does it have anything to do with gender? Who could say? Right, and the movie doesn't, that was something that I was like, I feel like the movie should have maybe, because if you gender swap, and again, it's like, we're over gender swapping,

but this movie is gender swapping, stuff we've seen in movies before. It does feel worth acknowledging that, in saying this with like, you know, girl Jeff Bezos, whatever, Sheldon Gastly in sandwich style, if you haven't seen it, maybe we'll link to it in this episode on YouTube.

But like, just because evil is being done by a woman does not make the consequences of it less severe. It does, however, make the tightrope of consequence for the person doing it more precarious. Again, I'm not quite sure why the director chose this tightrope to examine, but because she did choose it to examine, it felt a little bit under explored

because you're totally right Emma, where it's like if we did gender swap this and it is a young woman saying Jeff Bezos and I are in a BDSM relationship, it does feel like it's- It wouldn't go well for her. Far easier to ignore. And that's not to say, and we never get to the point

where we even ask what would happen if this happened. Because this movie doesn't even go there because it is made, and that's a little bit of the problem I had with the Samuel character in general where we know so little about him that he's a bit of a cipher, which in the sex sense is useful. He's kind of a manic pixie dream boy.

He kind of is, right? Okay, okay, I'm glad you said that because I didn't write that down, but that does sort of feel like what he is because we know the bare minimum about Romy's background, but we do know a lot about her home life. Samuel, we know really nothing. We know that he gave a dog a cookie,

and that's all we know. Like, nothing other than that, he is kind of a manic pixie dream boy, where, you know, if you Buscemi test this thing, it doesn't work at all. But it takes a fair amount of like, vibing and movie magic to make this relationship even happen in the first place.

And then he sort of just literally walks into the mist and goes away. Literally, yeah. And goes to Tokyo and we don't really know how this relationship has affected him. The line from him that affected me the most, that again I felt like didn't really go examined in the way that the movie plays out,

is that he's talking about how his relationship with Romy is different from the way that his relationship with Esme is. I liked that exchange a lot, but it never comes back where he just is like, he basically says, the side of myself that I am with Esme is different than the side of myself I am with you.

But he doesn't say that neither of those sides are invalid or not authentic. He's just like, you know, with you, I can explore a different part of myself than I can with her. But it doesn't, you know, I was very prepared for him to say I'm faking it with her, it's totally insincere, but it doesn't, you know, I was very prepared for him to say, I'm faking it with her, it's totally insincere, but he doesn't say that, he, you know,

and I thought that that was like a very interesting sort of thing to be dangled that isn't really explored because Asmae drops him to be Miss's girl boss, right? So it's like, that sort of goes away. I just, I do wish that this story was a little bit, I mean it lets go of, because I think that this movie, the way that it was celebrated was like, it's women's pleasure, but it's like of Mrs. Jeff Bezos,

can't we do better? Can't we do better? Because it feels like the consequence of that is that the younger characters go unexamined. And that also, I mean we haven't really talked I feel like the consequence of that is that the younger characters go unexamined. And that also, I mean, we haven't really talked about Jacob very much, where Jacob is a whole other animal where I thought Antonio Banderas gave kind of like a great understated, or as I call it, Dakota Johnson's stepfather.

Well, as I call him, Puss in Boots, the live action version. The man. But I thought he'd give a great understated performance in this where he's, and also his casting is like Nicole Kidman's, it's so deliberate where it's like you're culturally led to believe who would cheat on this man. But his performance bears that out where he is a emotionally present husband, which is again, a gender swap of what we normally see in this situation.

He is emotionally present, she is not. She's always on her phone. Right, which is tropey, right? That is tropey. But I do think like saying an emotionally present husband and father versus not is somewhat unusual. But then seeing like, you know, even that is not necessarily enough to sustain a marriage.

I think that that is like a point to be made. And also that his frustration and his hurt is totally valid as well. Because she fucks him over big time. Because in his mind, and I can imagine being in his position, he's like, what the fuck have I done wrong? All I did was direct Hedda Gabler and love our daughters. And it's like, the things he's done wrong,

he has not been culturally conditioned to examine. He has not been culturally conditioned to consider what his wife's pleasure should look like. You know, and like that is a very unique thing that I think a lot of men, and I'm sure of Antonio Banderas' generation particularly, haven't been thought to consider. And women of Nicole Kidman's generation,

who are basically are moms, were not taught to ask for. So I do think it's like a useful example, but I just feel like the way that Jacob's character was presented kind of petered out at the end where it was sort of presented like Jacob is the past, Samuel is the future, and then Samuel just turns into mist and goes to Japan,

and you're like, well, I don't know, there was a little bit of gray area there, but I guess we just gotta make her come and roll the credits. I am so glad though that they specify what like that Samuel didn't get fired. He wasn't like, he didn't take any like real professional harm from his affair with the CEO.

Like she transferred him to a really good job in Tokyo. So he was still on his career path, if not a little bit more advanced, but also very far away. So far. Which would that have happened if the gender was reversed? No. No. I think they'd say no.

And also, I mean, unfortunately, would Esme's career have advanced if she hadn't made the move that she made? I don't think so. Seemed unlikely. I don't think so because the movie literally tells you that wouldn't happen because the way that Romy is a hashtag feminist girl boss is inherently passive.

And the movie goes out of its way to tell you that because she has to be put into personal peril before she will talk to or seriously consider Esme's needs or her own daughter's needs. Where it's not until she sees her daughter mirroring her own behavior to some extent that she even considers it valid.

Like we're not, she's not a great mom. Like, but I also appreciated seeing not a great mom being approached by her teenage daughter and being like, you're not doing great, but we could really use you back. I'm like, visibility, we really, we love that, we love that. You weren't doing a great job, but you're better than nothing, get home, you know,

I get it. Yeah, I think it just comes down to this movie presents a lot of complicated things and I wish would have examined many of them more closely or maybe like a clearer stance on them, but there's also lots of upsides to what we see in the movie, especially as far as like representation of a woman's pleasure and and orgasm and

sexuality in general. I think it was interesting to see that of this couple between Romy and Jacob that the woman is the more sexually adventurous one and the man not so much. And it seems like the movie to some degree implies that that's why she like strays because she's like looking to find someone who will help her bust a nut and her husband can't do that for her. What I wish was more emphasized is that it shouldn't be,

and this is a symptom of capitalism, it shouldn't be a symptom of if Nicole Kidman doesn't bust a nut, people will die, which is the, these are the existential consequences presented by this movie that the movie does not quite wanna interact with. Right, and you're also just reminded like, okay, well, if you wanna bust a nut and you're already married in a monogamous relationship,

then try to use your words a little bit better. I mean, but that is like easier said than done. I mean, we know our moms, it's easier said than done. I mean, we know our moms. It's easier said than done. It's a motherfucker. I don't mean to talk her character down too much. I just, well, yeah, I guess to round up how I feel about this movie,

I think it is an interesting step forward in this genre of movie. And I just sort of wish it had chosen a less challenging, extreme class dynamic to examine in its doing. It passes the Bechdel test for what it's worth. It does indeed. A lot, a whole lot.

But what does that mean? Does anyone else have closing comments before we head into our ratings? I thought that the wardrobe designer did a really incredible job with this. Just like the way that Samuel's suit never fits him right is so on point for his character. And then also for most of the movie,

especially for the first half, Romy is wearing a top or a dress that looks like it's choking her to death. She's like always wearing something that ties at the neck. And then as she gets more into her sexuality, you see her like at the scene with her and Samuel at the hotel, she's wearing a strapless dress. At the rave scene, she goes in wearing a top

that's like tied at the top and he helps her untie it and take it off. Right, oh yeah. Well spotted. I was just like, wow, it's hard for me to get past, Nicole Kippen looks awesome. Yeah, you're so right, you're so right. Yeah, we should maybe wrap up

because I could talk about this movie for three more hours. I know, I feel like, I mean, it's such a rich text. There's so much to examine. I feel like we haven't even scratched the surface. Truly, but we've almost gone the length of the text. So that is our natural conclusion. Classic us.

But yeah, I guess that brings us to our nipple scale where we rate the movie based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. Ooh, this one is a tricky one. This movie really challenged me. You know, there's there's things I really like about what we see on screen, especially as far as like, again, representation of a woman's pleasure. But it's like, to your point, Jamie, why is it Mrs. Amazon.com?

Cause that's an impossible character to root for. I really struggled with that. There's just, there's lots of stuff that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. But again, now that I know more about where the director was coming from, I appreciate it more, but I feel like I'm still only gonna give it three nipples?

I don't know. I'll stick with three. One goes to the glass of milk. One goes to the necktie that Romy performs oral sex on. And my final nipple goes to her, again, guttural orgasm sound. Huuuh! Amazing!

Wow, really good, really good. Thank you, thank you. I'm bravely going to forego nipples on this because I just don't feel well informed enough to give my full nipple reading here. I will say this movie challenged me to the extent that I don't feel comfortable giving nipples. My main criticism of this movie is

that it chose intentionally to choose the highest possible stakes for this situation, which made it harder for me to engage with it. And also weirdly more like fan fiction-y of like, what if Jeff Bezos fucked you? Like, it really does feel kind of like more fan fiction-y. I wish this took place in a more grounded environment. I don't think that you would have lost the stakes

and I think you actually would have gained a lot of ability to engage with the story that I didn't feel the ability to engage with because you're like, well, I would never do what Mrs. Jeff Bezos does. But if you put it in the stakes of your mom's most successful friend, maybe you could put yourself in that situation. I just, I don't know.

I mean, I would be curious what the director's motivation was to, it just felt like it was trying to do a little bit too much for me. I'm gonna forego my nipples at this point. I also, I'm gonna, for the things that we didn't have time to talk about, I just wanted to link two sort of differing opinions that I both value very much from past guests of this show. Angelica Jade Bastien wrote a great piece about this in

Vulture and Jordane Searles wrote a great piece about this in the LA review of books. So I will defer to you to them. Jordane was a big fan, Angelica less so, and I feel like I just need a little more time with this one. I don't know. If I had nipples to give, I would give them all to the pool that steams in January. It's a pretty great pool. The pool of infidelity.

Yes, the cheating on your spouse pool. I love that. Yes, yes. Emma, how about you? Right, this one is so hard hard because I feel like all of the positive things about it are so positive to me. And then all of the negative things are so negative. It is just really extremes.

And that's when we do a 2.5 nipple. We just split down the middle. I'm gonna give it a 3.5. And I'm gonna give all of those nipples, not specifically to the scene where Harris Dickinson is dancing with his shirt off and his fuck boy tattoos, but to the directorial choice to have that scene happen to the George Michael song father figure.

Oh yes. That was a choice. Oh my God, yes. She was, they were like, okay, she is daddy now. And you're like, okay, I get it, I get it. Baby daddy. Also, those are all his real tattoos. Oh, I was wondering, I meant to look that up. I was like, I wonder if there's like shirtless photos of him.

I came out of the first viewing being like, man, they did such a good job with the fake tattoos. They're such fuck boy tattoos and they're all real. They're just real tattoos. That makes me so, good for you, Harris. Good for you for living your truth. You've lived a real human life if you have tattoos that embarrassing.

Yeah, yes. The final thing I'll say is that if this movie exists, Emma, if you know, let me know, or if listeners know, but I want to watch a movie about like a femdom, like the woman being the dominant person in that dynamic with a submissive man, because I mean, we've talked exclusively about hetero couplings on this episode. I mean, there is the Isabel character who, you know, the teen daughter who dates other teen girls, but in the context of like the Dom sub dynamics

that we've discussed on this episode, it's all been hetero things. But I'd also like to see a movie about a Dom sub dynamic present within a queer relationship, because when a mainstream movie comes out that is about BDSM, I feel like it's always the Dom is a Cishet man, the Sub is a Cishet woman, and that's just the pattern we see over and over.

We should just do a month on the Bexel cast of like S tier narrative porn, honestly. Like, we've been on the air long enough. We should. It's time. I own on DVD, brag, the on the air long enough. We should. It's time. I own on DVD, brag, the porn movie Pirates, which is a porn parody of Pirates of the Caribbean.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I have it and we can watch it. There's also a sequel, which I've seen. And then for a short time, both movies, both porn films, were on Netflix, but the sex scenes were cut out. So it was just the like pirate story. And was that incredible? That rocks.

That's like Kill Bill on TNT. That is amazing. Yeah, because like there's a story, there's like a whole plot. Sure. And then like there's a story, there's a whole plot. Sure. And then they take a little narrative break from the plot to have a sex scene and then they just go back into the plot.

So it kinda works without the sex scenes. It's also one of the highest budget porn's ever made. Okay, well yeah, I'll come over to watch the DVD. I'm not interested in the non-sex version of that. Yeah, no, we're gonna watch the horny version. Well, cool, Emma, thank you so much for, on that note, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for bringing us this very complex,

I wish we had like three more hours to talk about it. I feel like I could talk about it all day. Thank you so much for coming on and coming to talk about this. Tell us more about where we can find you online. You can find my website at EmmaAlamo.com. You can find me on Instagram at Emma underscore Alamo. I am frequently very shadow banned,

so you might have to type in the whole name for me to pop up. Mm-hmm, well worth it. And listeners, check out Emma's online store and buy some dang harnesses. Buy some dang sex harnesses. Look, I'm, I'm, mine's- Give it a whirl. Can recommend and I'm so boring and it'll make your life interesting. Vanilla does not equal boring. This is a crusade that I've been on for years. Truly. Okay.

I'm on that crusade too. Like vanilla is delicious. And a lot of the best. It's a classic for a reason. And also a lot of the best ice creams have an element of vanilla in them. It'll be like vanilla ice cream with cookie dough. Like vanilla is not bad. Vanilla is just one of many options.

It's a great thing to add other things to. By Emma's merchandise. You can find us online all over the place. You can join our Patreon, AKA Matrion, for $5 a month where every month we do two bonus episodes with just Caitlin and myself on a ridiculous theme that you often choose. We just covered Rodentober for March,

which was Ratatouille and The Great Mouse Detective. A lot of important feminist discussion going on over there. Oh, yeah. Yes. Thank you for listening. Emma, come back any time. Yeah, I'll come back to do that pirate porn with y'all. Oh, please.

I was like, I would love to cover some sort of classic porn movies on this show. Debbie Does Dallas. Deep Throat. Exactly. Et cetera. Yeah, I'm here for it. Okay, bye. All right. Bye. The Bechtel cast is a production of iHeart Media, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrasensky.

Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.bechtelcast. Are your money skills total trash? Well, trust me, you are not alone. Personal finance ignorance is as American as apple pie. But you can improve. Think, Matt, if your emergency fund was invested, especially given the volatility

we're experiencing right now. Ouchies. Investing it is ultimately a necessity, but you've got to keep that emergency fund accessible. It needs to be cash parked in your savings. It's time to learn and How to Money is here to bring the knowledge. Listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up? I'm Laura, host of the podcast, Courtside with Laura Corenti, a masterclass case study of the business of women's sports. I'll be chatting with leaders like tennis icon, Alana Kloss. I don't do what I do only for women.

I do it for everyone. And I want the whole market. And innovators like Jenny Nguyen. I would say 50% of the people that come visit the Sports Bra aren't sports fans. They come to be in community. They come to be part of this culture. Courtside with Laura Karenty is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Courtside with Laura Karenty on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you? Why is my cat not here? And I go in and she's eating my lunch. Or if hypnotism is real, you will use the suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control. But what's inside a black hole?

Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe. Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast, Science Stuff. Join me or Hitcham as we answer questions about animals, space, our brains, and our bodies. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to Science Stuff on the iHeart video app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up y'all? I'm AJ Andrews, pro softball player, sports analyst, and the first woman to win a Rawlings Gold Glove. On my new podcast, Dropping Diamonds, we dive headfirst into the world of softball by sharing powerful stories, insights, and conversations that inspire and empower. It's time to drop bombs and diamonds.

Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews is an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Athletes Unlimited Softball League and Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Dropping Diamonds with AJ Andrews on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis,

founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.