The Bechdel Cast - Black Panther with Naomi Ekperigin and Ify Nwadiwe

Episode Date: March 1, 2018

Jamie and Caitlin invite special guests Naomi Ekperigin and Ify Nwadiwe to discuss the women (bald and non-bald) of Black Panther! Wakanda Forever!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast. Follow @Blacktress and @IfyNwadiwe on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The patriarchy's effin' vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Caitlin Durante. My name's Jamie Loftus. And we're here to talk about the portrayal of women in movies. Oh, because that's what our podcast is about. That is what our podcast is about. Yeah, we've been doing it for a little while. Yeah, we're freaking veterans at this point.

Yeah, that's scary. I looked at at right now as of this recording we have 69 episodes out hell yeah that's sexy right that's so hot that's good that's very if i was in middle school i'd be pissing myself right now but i'm an adult so i'm just like clenching and being like that's kind of funny sure sure yeah yeah uh so we talk about women in movies we use the bechdel test as just a jumping off point for a larger conversation hey what's that test is a test you apply to media it requires that the movie let's say you're watching has two female characters they must have names they must talk to each other and their conversation has to be about anything other than a man. Our version of it is a two-line-of-dialogue exchange. Can we demo it?

I'd love to. Hey, Caitlin, what's the Bechdel test? I'm stupid. Jamie, you're not stupid, but the Bechdel test is when women talk to each other in movies about stuff that's not a man. Oh, okay. But oops, we just mentioned a man, so did that conversation. Wait, no, try again. Okay.

Caitlin, what's the Bechdel test? It's when movies have women who talk about things i love the movie doubt okay done did it we did it the best thing about the backdoor test is it does not have to be well written it just has to declare a bar yeah which uh if you've been listening to the podcast for a while you'll find uh is is something that's freely taken advantage of. Yeah, definitely. Not in this particular movie we're talking about today,

which is very well written. Right. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. This has been a big listener request. It has been. Our feed has been, quite honestly,

blown up with requests for this episode. So we're excited to be doing it. So you're welcome, everybody. Yeah, Jesus. So without much further ado, oh, we're about to make Bechdelcast history because we have not won.

Oh, two guests. Two guests. The double guests. Yeah, more bodies. More voices. It's going to be terrific. I can't wait because these are both such wonderful people. We've got one returning guest.

But also the first time I've been in the room with her for this podcast because I not famously but irresponsibly never showed up for this didn't show up it's all right we forgive you uh you might remember this from the when Harry met Sally episode and so you already know we're in North Hollywood I'm sorry it's okay but you already know her she's a comedian you've seen her on two dope queens Naomi Ickparigan. Hey! Hello! Welcome back! And our other guest, he's written for At Midnight. He has a podcast coming out soon called Nerdificent. Ify Wadiwe!

Hey, what it do? What's up, man? I thought you were going to say make history when you had two black people. They're just two guests, period. I was like, you got black people. We're in a post Black Panther society so it's very advanced

yeah no you have more black people than 90% of comedy podcasts in LA so shout out to y'all we did it so the movie just came out Naomi you've seen it once Jamie you've seen it once. Yes. Jamie, you've seen it once.

Ify, you're at three times. I'm at three times. And also shout out to Aristotle, who's also seen it three times. Oh my God. Wait, we've got 11 viewings in one room. Wow. Okay, we're ready. We're ready to talk about this.

So what are your initial thoughts, takes on the movie? Yas! That's my initial take. Yeah, no, this is as like a nerd, also as an African. Black Panther has always been special to me because he wasn't just a black hero, he was an African hero. So it was literally like, oh man, he's like straight up just like me. And it's been a long journey because I remember, you know, when the MCU kind of started out. Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Yeah. Continue. Get the news up to speed. Yeah. At Comic-Con, like they were saying, like, Wakanda would be too hard to make. But this was like post-Thor. And I was like, what are you talking about? You guys already just did Valhalla.

And it was just a long road. But we got here. And I feel like it was perfect because if it would have been done when I wanted it, it would not have had Coogler. Because Coogler, I think, only has done Fruitvale Station at the time. I don't think it would have had most of the cast. A lot of the cast were people who just kind of blew up besides Lupita, and Michael B. was on his hot streak by then. But the wait was needed. I didn't even know it.

I didn't even know it. I didn't realize this movie was in some form of production for my entire life. Really? Yeah, this first started from what I can tell in 92 was the first mention of possibly making a Black Panther movie. Oh, I'm so glad it did not get made in 1990. It would have had Damon Wayans in it.

It would have been wackadoo. But yeah, this has been a movie that's been in talks forever. And yeah, I mean, if it had been made in 92, nightmare. Nightmare fuel. I heard this current rendition of it kind of started back in 2011. And Kevin Feige was like, not yet.

We need to wait for like. Who's Kevin Feige? The big producer over at Marvel. Oh, okay. He's the Marvel guy. Okay. Or I guess H-N-W-D-C. Head white dude in charge. Oh, I added the N.

So that was technically head nigga white dude but yeah he uh he got the scripting he was like ah he's like now's not the time and he waited and i it's so funny because i where did i hear them talking about how it was pushed to february because they didn't believe in it but i think it was purposely pushed to february so it can be during black history month exactly after hearing feige wanting to wait it basically he kind of was because they didn't believe in it. But I think it was purposely pushed to February so it can be during Black History Month. Exactly. After hearing Feige wanting to wait, basically he kind of was like,

I want to drop this when it will be the most culturally relevant. Right. And I was like, yeah, no. You know, as much as I hate to admit it, he was right. Like right now is probably like the peak time to drop it. It was just like, oh, man. Well, because right now it's like the movie to see. There's was just like oh man well because right now it's like the movie to see there's not other movies that just came out that everyone's like and and

i mean as of this recording 200 million dollar budget 491 million dollars at the box office right what i say okay people need to stop thinking that all black people broke or they don't care about culture or they don't want to be seen and at what what point is like, do we have to just start trading our kidneys for movie tickets for people to start making our shit? Because I think it was the same thing with Girls Trip. Right? Like it was another one where everyone was like, wait a minute, do black women like movies?

It's like no one gets it. It's like we only bootleg shit because it's not worth us seeing in the theaters when it's worth seeing in the theaters and we will pay three times oh it's been great because it really just struck all the chords within the black community i'm getting all the t's like the hoteps are out acting a fool for those who don't know hoteps i i had to describe this before but hoteps are like these super pro black dudes who think that they all

came from egypt that that's the only dope part of Africa for some reason. They don't respect women. They think, you know, they're one of those, their place is in the kitchen, and, you know, America's, the white man is trying to ruin backwards black families, and they wear onks, wear a lot of patchouli oil, and they, oh, yeah,

and just my favorite Hotep take, check out Yada. They say that menstruation is the white man's invention and that if you follow their diet, you will stop having periods. Wow. That is a hot take. Amazing. And honestly, I'm down to try. Oh my God, Aristotle's phone just started screaming about menstruation.

He has a ho-tep. He's an undercover ho-tep, y'all. No! Aristotle's menstruation alert. Phone's extremely responsive to talk of menstruation. So, if you were familiar

with the comic books, Naomi? No, I wasn't. I love action movies. I do not actually like comic books oh yeah naomi no i wasn't i love action movies i do not actually like comic books i've had to explain this to my fiance who's a comic hit who who accidentally for my first birthday art no not my first in life our first birthday together got me the walking dead compendium oh man because i do love that show but what i don't i don't know what order to read the boxes in and it'll be like a full page you know like a spread of like a punch and that's supposed to mean something for me and it doesn't yeah so i

need it all in movie form so i so i did not know the comic going in and so i was surprised i mean no obviously i knew back when he appeared in the avengers movie obviously like where he was from where it's supposed to be but i guess what i didn't expect out of the movie and i don't know if the comic was like this was connecting it to actual present day black culture you know what I mean I thought it was all gonna be like

Wakanda we're gonna hint at Africa without being specific so that if we're wrong no one's mad you know what I mean I didn't think it was gonna actually talk about

kind of like I guess that's what made it so good right like the actual conflict at the center is a real conflict that is like has fucking shades of gray. You know what I mean? Like normally it's like, we're good guys and we're bad guys.

Right. You killed someone, now you're a bad guy. That's how a lot of the freaking comic movies are. And this one was kind of like, I see both your points. That was a big thing with Killmonger. I was like, he's not going about it the right way but like i understand where he's coming from because he's like he's all about wanting to provide aid to the people who look like him all around the globe while wakanda like sort of just kind of

keeps their resources for themselves and all this stuff and i was like he's got a he's got a point he's just a bad guy about it yeah and the level of like nuance in this movie too is like another thing where you're like thank god this wasn't made in 92 there's like no oh yeah i mean even i've never been uh particularly into comic books uh but even in like the past year i feel like there's just been a few superhero movies that i've actually been interested in like even seeing the trailer normally if i see you know like whatever like a superman trailer even like it just like doesn't do anything for me it's like okay i feel like i know how this goes but this is like a new kind of movie this and wonder woman and uh i really like thor ragnarok and there's comic book movies coming out that you don't need to be like hardcore into comic books from birth to enjoy because the movies are actually trying to

like meet you and like connect with you and not just be like you're saying for the fan yeah yeah like good guy bad guy kind of cut and dry well if i can just dip into true nerdiness for a few seconds the reason i think the reason that marvel has seen so much mainstream success has been mostly because all the Marvel directors tag a genre onto a movie. I feel like early on superhero movies were superhero movies, as if that's a genre that works. But Ant-Man is a heist movie. Thor Ragnarok is a straight-up comedy. We're still working on a genre for Black Panther, but I think it is both a Shakespearean, like, royal battle for the mantle while also being, like, just a almost Spike Lee joint. Are we about to say Spike Lee? Spike Lee.

Like, Spike Lee, love his movies, love everything, you know, he does to a point. Hate everything he says. Like, I can't get behind this guy pointing the finger at gentrification when the first check he got, he got up out of Brooklyn. He was like, I'll see y'all. My office will be out here so y'all know I'm still down, but I'm in upper Manhattan. Should I do the recap? Let's do the recap. And also just feel free to interrupt the recap at any time.

If he will correct you. Yeah. If he's correct you. Yeah. Um, actually. If he's pushing his glasses. So Black Panther takes place in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Sorry, MCU. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

I learned from Ify. In the fictional country of Wakanda, which is in like Eastern Africa, the story centers around T'Challa. He's a Black Panther, which turns out is a power that he gets by drinking an herb, a purple heart-shaped herb. And it gives him heightened strength and ability and agility and all that stuff. His father has just died, which we see in the first movie that we actually see the Black Panther character in, in the MCU, which is Captain America, the one where there's Civil War. That was supposed to be good, right? Yeah. That was a good one? I'm a Winter Soldier head.

I love me some Winter Soldier. This one was not, it did not move me as much. Yeah, the biggest problem, I think, with Civil War was when it happened in the comics, it was such a big, it was like a war between superheroes. So it was like insane. You're like, oh, these heroes are fighting. By the time it happened in the MCU, there just weren't that many characters.

So it was just like a petty world star fight in an airport. So I think that was the biggest letdown for fans, but I think driving the story-wise, it was very cool to see that kind of split between Cap and Iron Man. His good friend Cap. Yeah.

Classic Cap. So we first meet Black Panther in that movie. Got it. So in this movie, we basically see his world. We see Wakanda. It's this futuristic, we basically see his world. We see Wakanda. It's this futuristic, more advanced technology than anywhere else in the world because they have access to something called vibranium, which is a metal, I think. Some substance. I love the name for random superheroes.

Because they're very into all their stones. I'm into all their stones. All their metals. Yeah. It's like a precious super. It's one of the strongest metals in the world. Is it an adamantium vibe? That's what it's getting.

It's stronger. It's stronger. And it's worth a lot of money. And in this movie it's established that it came to Earth from space. From an asteroid.

I'm about to punch out Jamie's computer. It's okay. We talk about Black Panther. Whatever happens she might have deserved it. So they have access to vibranium and it's helped have them cultivate this super hyper-advanced society. But they're hiding in plain sight and the rest of the world thinks they're this impoverished nation. Meanwhile, we've got T'Challa.

He's about to do the ceremony where he is becoming king because his father died in the Civil War movie. So we meet his ex-girlfriend slash a spy named Nakia. I aspire to be called ex-girlfriend slash spy. A title I'd like to hold to that. And we meet Okoye, the general of his army. And we meet Shuri, his sister. And these are all characters that are sort of like advisors of his. Everyone's hot.

Everyone's so hot. It's very distracting. I swear to God, that movie hit me like, I got to do bar method, okay? Because that body is my birthright, okay? And I'm going astray. And so if I just focus up. I've been to the gym every day since that movie. Straight up.

It's been the biggest inspiration in my life. And when you see that hot bod, you just know you got to thank Michael B. Jordan for it. Matter of fact, tag him in it. Right. So we meet his kind of core group of people, tag him in it. Right. So we meet his core group of people, his mother as well. There's a character named

Wakabi, who is his pal. They do this sort of ritualistic ceremony to have him become king in which people have the opportunity to challenge him. And they're like, oh, if you want to be king, you can also try, but you have to kill him.

So it's a bold move. Bold move. On anyone's part, yeah. And there is one challenger, M'Baku, from the... Thick! T-H-I-C-C! Yes! Okay, go ahead. Is it the Jaburi tribe?

Jabari. Jabari. So he challenges him and loses. He doesn't die, though, because he comes back later. Because T'Challa is a gracious king. He's a gracious king. Thank you. Also, here, I'll give you a little sound clip just for me.

For too long, we have watched from the mountains. Your technology is overseen by a child. No longer. We will not have it. We will not have it. No. From a king who couldn't even protect his father. And then you push in on that face.

You know, you push in on T'Challa feeling that. I'm sweating. That was amazing. I had a full-blown panic attack. That was so exciting. Naomi was dancing. It came into his heart. When he spoke, it made me tingle, and I found out after why.

It's because he spoke... Sounds like your dad. Yeah. He spoke specifically with the Igbo inflection, which is the tribe that I'm from in Nigeria. And I'm Yoruba, so we're kind of at odds. We'll fight to the death later. We'll do that. We'll handle that.

Do you know Opie? Uh-uh. Oh, he's Yoruba. So, yeah. We need to connect. Yeah, do the connect. We should just have an all Nigerian show soon. There's so many Nigerians, like black comics who are Nigerian.

Oh, man. It's like crazy. So many disappointed parents. Like just mad. We did not come here for you to do comedy. But yeah, so everyone who's Nigerian had that same response to Mbaku. And it's because, yeah, that evil inflection. That's amazing.

That's amazing. Okay, so back to the story. Okay, continue, Caitlin. This could take all day. I know. So I'll try to get through this as fast as possible. So basically, he becomes king. There's a villain named Klaue, played by Andy Serkis.

Also surprisingly, T-H-I-C-C. I was like, yeah, yeah. Andy Serkis went from Gollum to Zagat. I was like, he had that, like, I'm down with black people haircut. I was like, okay. He could roll with the crew. Love Andy Serkis. So Andy Serkis' character, Klaue, stole a bunch of vibranium from Wakanda years and years ago,

which is another part that I forgot to mention. So we open the movie. It's in Oakland. Sterling K. Brown Brown which I think is crucial to establishing your power as a black film okay if you're gonna be

a black film if you are gonna be trying to lift us up if you don't open with Sterling it's not real and I think that was important I don't know when they

decided to do that casting you know right this is us episode one I don't know and they were like we gotta get him in here you know what I mean

to just establish that we ain't playing right I hope it was like not at the very beginning, but then someone raised their hand. They're like, you know what would really start us up? Exactly.

That's what I wonder with all of it, too. Even Daniel Kaluuya, right? Because obviously we know him from Get Out, but he's such a popular actor. I'm like, where did he come in the process? Was it one of those things where it was like, okay, hurry up, get his ass in here. But I know it takes two years to make these movies. like two years to make these movies was this movie shot before i feel like this and

get out maybe were shot around the same time because of how long these movies i don't know yeah i'm not sure what if i can start a conspiracy theories i know that uh my buddies aaron covington who co-wrote creed with coogler uh is friends friends with Phil Jackson, who got an early draft of Get Out to take a pass on it. So my theory is that Coogler somehow got to see an early cut, was like, that's my W'Kabi right there. That probably did not happen, but let's just say it did. I'm willing to fully buy into that. I believe it, though. It does feel exciting, at least, that this young black generation is bigger.

I feel like there's, right, like, older black actors, there were legit ten of them, and they all get all the awards. And it does feel like at least there are more young people now, kind of, to choose from, if that makes any sense. Because I always felt like there could be only one. Also, technically, there's two Black Mirror actors in this. Because remember, Kaluuya was in Black Mirror. Yeah. Wait, what episode is Black Mirror? He was the American Idol one. Oh, my God.

I totally forgot about that episode. Yeah. And then Lita, she was in the season finale. Right. Yes, I saw that one. And I remember that one. I was like, what do I recognize the actors from? And that was it.

Okay, so. Okay, you're still trying to take us through the movie from top to bottom. All right, Caitlin. Caitlin's like, minute 12. Maybe, I mean, my guess is like, people won't even need the recap because they will have just, I mean, we're going to, we're spoiling everything. I know, I'm like, so. Everyone hopefully has seen this.

Yeah. So if you haven't seen it. You've had a week. Pause the episode. You need to fucking look within, okay? No, you need to seek treatment. Okay, if you haven't seen it go to therapy go to therapy pro tip for anything on the internet don't listen to any

podcast with the title of a movie you haven't seen yet if you don't want spoilers we're living in a post-movie past culture like we haven't seen it exactly figure it out so uh so back to sterling sterling k brown's character who oh God. We're back at the beginning of the movie. He's the most handsome man I've ever seen in my life. Is he your number one? He's like right up there. Okay. Okay.

I'm a big fan. So he gets visited by King T'Chaka in 1992. And he's like, oh, this bad guy stole our vibranium and you helped him. And then we see flashbacks throughout the movie about that interaction. Oh, what the fuck? Okay. Ify, okay, for the listeners.

Okay. Ify very subtly and surreptitiously pulls out his cell phone to show a picture of his ass with Sterling K. Brown. Hint, and another strong black man looking just like the goddamn chocolate drop. A musical group that

I would be following. Casual AF. Best friends, all eyes to camera, cherishing this moment. If he just casually, like, flexed in Caitlyn's face. My boy. What?

Great pick. Wow. Where? Where? Yeah, what circumstances? Set it up. So my boy Echo. Oh, Echo Kellum.

Yeah, Echo Kellum, who is in Black... Arrow? I was going to say Black Lightning. I know, Arrow. Yeah. And so he was like, hey, you want to go to a party with me? And I was like, all right, yeah, I'll finish up the show. I want to be friends with your black friends. Okay, yeah. And so he was like, hey, you want to go to a party with me? And I was like, all right, yeah, I'll finish up the show. I want to be friends with your black friends. Okay, continue.

And then he was like, yeah, it's the EW SAG party. I was like, I'm, I like, it was like a smoke cloud. And I just run home, throw on a suit, and it's at Chateau Mormont. And I was like, okay, this might be like some, like, whatever party. But of course I step in, and all our favorite black stars, Brian Tyree Henry from Atlanta, first dude I see, I was like, oh my gosh,

the black kid from Stranger Things in there. All the black kids from Black-ish. It was like, man, it was a lot of

dope black-tivity going on in there. And I walk outside and I look to the right and it was Sterling K. Brown. And I was like, okay, because my wife is in love with him. I was like, yo, I look to the right and it was Sterling K. Brown and I was like, okay. Because my wife is in love with him. I was like, yo, I gotta take a pic with you.

He was like, yeah, of course. Humility and grace. He's like, all three of us got pregnant. Of course he's nice. Of course, he does the classic black someone taking a picture for us joke of

make sure the flash is on so you can get all this blackness so I was like yes and so we got a picture and I was mad hyped I was good for like

the rest of the night right I was like alright cool you have to back that up okay back that up onto your hard drives

you know put that in the cloud make sure people have that print out copies we'll put it on our Instagram. We'll tweet it. We'll tweet it. Yeah.

We'll tweet it. We just need this picture out there. I'm going to send it to Caitlin right now and make sure she can tweet it. So as you were saying about Sterling K. Brown and seeing one of the films. So the movie that we're talking about. I will say my number one crush in this movie is Winston Duke. Yes. Oh, yeah.

You know I love a fake man. He's so handsome. I was just like, oh, there he is. And I love when he has these little humor moments. He's all like, I'm a little funny. I'm a little funny. He's cheeky. That has been my feed for

since the movie was released. It was like, if you gotta do M'Baku cosplay. If you gotta do M'Baku. Every day someone's been like, if you gotta be M'Baku. And it was like, if you got to do M'Baku cosplay, if you got to do M'Baku. Like, every day, someone's been like, if you got to be M'Baku. And I was like,

look, my beard game is not good at all. Like, I'm sorry to break it to y'all, so I'm going to have to get Beijing all over my face. Well, it was so funny to see the black beard game. You know what I mean?

A couple homies were a little patchy up in there, and I was like, honestly, appreciate your bravery. But I was like, please speak truth, okay? don't be filling that shit in show the reality yeah okay of a newbie and beer i was very there for the past okay all right beer is beautiful yeah i'm sweating againaelin hasn't gotten past Sterling K. Brown. So there's a subplot where T'Chaka and his brother, Sterling K. Brown's character N'Jobu, he betrays... Thank you, I'm doing the best.

This is like a Caucasian nightmare. So many African names you just say in succession. So he betrays the then king and uh he gets murdered for it later on we find out but he has a son who is a kid in this in 1992 and grows up to be eric killmonger the main villain of the movie and he comes back first he kills claw he seems to be working with him and we're like what's this all about because he helps him steal some vibranium from this museum. And we're just like, what's going on? What's happening here? But then he kills Klaue.

And he takes him back to Wakanda basically to use as leverage and be like, hey, I'm one of you. I'm Wakandan. I want to be your king. And they're like, what? Who are you? And he's like, I'm the son of N'Jobu. And I'm fucking like like let me do the hey auntie is the greatest line of any fucking movie just to just to clear up the leverage part so wakabi

who is t'challa's confidant his parents were killed in the attack that where claw stole the vibranium so he when he went on the mission to capture claw heue, he didn't get it and Wakabi is pissed. But then Michael B. brings him Klaue's body. So now Wakabi's like, T'Challa's my old friend. My new best friend is Killmonger. So he comes in, brings him in. And once again, another soundbite from this scene. Everyone's like, who is this guy?

Who is this guy? So just so you know, the tension building. And then Michael B. Jordan asked T'Challa to say his name. And he's like, no, I won't. And then one of the River Tribe dude with the huge ass disc was like, who are you? And he was like, I'm Indijaka, son of Nujobi. I found my daddy with panther marks in his chest. I'm here to enact my birthright for a seat at the throne.

And then the music is picking up. It's like, I'm like dabbing in the theater. That moment was incredible. It was so fucking, literally,

Hey Auntie is the greatest fucking line of any movie. And it was just like, I don't know. It was just brilliant. I think he just

did such a did such a great job of straddling both those worlds you know as that person and then kind of wanting to be the wakandan king yeah but it was just the use of music in this movie is like killer too because with a lot of superhero movies i feel like it gets kind of lazy which is like a slow swell of strings when someone's saying something. But this, like, it's exciting. You're in it the whole fucking time. It's exciting. Quick sidebar. It is Ludwig Garansson who does the score, who you may know from Community and Happy Endings or Creed.

New Girl. New Girl. And Childish Gambino. Really? He did Redbone. I'm not kidding. Yeah, he did Redbone. And he also did some stuff

with Haim too so I've listened to the score I'm like a scorehead like my before this my favorite before this

my favorite scores were Interstellar and I actually liked the end of tour like very like ambient cute score this one

I've never heard a score like this in my life because he uses bass like rappers use bass, which is too much, but just enough. And it is that same kind of very uplifting,

very traditional score, but mixed in with hip-hop beats and African drums, flutes, chants. And it really is like nothing you've never heard. If he doesn't win Oscars for this score, your boy is going to be like he was two seconds before we found out it was actually Moonlight. La La Land, what the fuck?

Oh my God. I was cussing. Okay, so I'm almost done. Are you? Yes. Okay, so I'm almost done. So we've done. Are you? Yes. So Erik Killmonger challenges T'Challa for the throne. They have their sort of ritualistic combat thing.

T'Challa appears to have been defeated. We think that he dies. It is terrifying. I just want to point out this fun fact. So in this scene, when he dies, this actually isn't a fun fact about the story, but the fun fact of So in this scene, when he dies, this actually isn't a fun fact about the story, but the fun fact of my second viewing experience. I was with this white lady next to me who was watching it

as if she was possessed by a black person. It was like watching a movie with my mom, seriously. But in that scene where he throws him off the waterfall and he dies,

she leans over to me and goes, I don't think he's dead. It's like, oh, you think? Like, hello. They didn't kill the protagonist in the movie. She was so confident and completely genuine.

That's cute. Adorable. Mom, pull it. So he dies, we assume. Killmonger takes over the throne he's like we're gonna send out we're basically gonna incite war all over the world and give vibranium to the weapons specifically the vibranium weapons the weapons to black people over the world basically so that they can fight their oppressors and everyone's like oh actually that doesn't really sound like that great of an idea. And then Nakia, the queen, and Shuri all are like,

hey, we should go to M'Baku and be like, maybe you should be the new Black Panther. And he's like, actually, I found your old one right here. And so T'Challa comes back, saves the day. There's this huge epic battle at the end. Oh, that lady in the movie theater was right. Yeah, yeah. She was right.

He was not. Part of how he was able to come back is because, so when Michael B. becomes king, of course the first thing he does is destroy the purple herb that can give the man the power of the Black Panther. Right. Now, because you know Lupita is straight up spying on him. Okay?

She comes and drew a damn hole in the wall. She give herself a little dab of herb that is like, for the road. And so when they find Black Panther, the true Black Panther, they're able to grind up that herb that she stole, you know, using the last of it, basically. Right.

And then bring him back. Which makes me really worried for Wakanda. So after this movie, all the, it's gone. Well, see, that's what was so curious to me because like in comic book lore, because they, and they touch on it, the spirit of the Black Panther, it is a spirit that imbues you. So I wonder if they're going to introduce that because in the comics, the way Shuri was, because Shuri in the comics eventually becomes the Black Panther and she takes over and becomes the queen. But Black Panther is still Black Panther-ing

but all around the world. And the way it exists is because the spirit, Black Panther imbues Shuri with the spirit of life and T'Challa the spirit of death. It's very cool. It's way cool. And I do like the idea of Shuri becoming queen. Like I, whew, that.

I hope that happens in the movies. But just for another soundbite, you know, this, when he takes the, when he takes the herb, you know,

he goes to the plains of the ancestors and he sees his dad and his dad's like, his dad's way too chill with his son just being murked. Like he's like,

yeah, come on, it's time to come back. Yeah, come hang with us now. And then he shakes and this is all in Wakandan which is actually Joshua, yeah, come on, it's time to come back. Yeah, come hang with us now. And then he shakes. And this is all in Wakandan, which is actually Xhosa. I wonder what Wakandan was.

When I was watching, I was like, this is an actual language. Yeah, it's Xhosa from South Africa. So that's why, fun fact, even though this was very lightly mentioned, the casino scene, remember when she's like, stand down. And the dude's like, hey. It wasn't because she was loud. It was because that guy was South African. And I saw that because there's a scene breakdown

that Coogler does, but we can talk about that later. Oh my God, I love all these inside tips. Optics, inside info. Oh yeah, we're going to get deep when I talk about that. So he goes and he sees his father, and he's like, why? Why? And he's like, we had Why? And he's like,

we had to do what we did to protect but he, he was a child. You left him behind. I have to go back and stop a monster

of our own making. I have to stop him. I can't come back. And then he comes back like Jesus. Chills. Oh, God. I was like I was there.

God, I didn't know you guys got Chadwick for this. That's an impressive recall for three times. I expect no less for three times. You better be quoting it. I got a bad memory. I could go and just be like, wow, this movie's pretty good. Okay, so I think we're through the recap? I think.

And then he comes back and he kills Michael B. On an actual Underground Railroad. So we gotta give our last sound bite. So he kills him with a cool move. They're fighting down you find out that they're able that they have the Underground Railroad. That's a funny thing.

That's where they were fighting. Yo, and you know that probably was on purpose. Oh, you know. So they're fighting on this Underground Railroad where they turn down vibranium so that they deactivate it so that they can transfer it at the speeds that the trains move at. So when they do it, they basically turn off all their protection. So they're fighting, they're going in, they're having the whole monologue. T'Challa does this kick-ass move where he knocks the blade up and he stabs him in the chest.

And then he's like wheezing, because he has a knife in his chest. He's like, My dad told me Wakanda has the best sunsets. He told me he'd bring me here someday. You believe that? A kid from Oakland believing in fairy tales.

And at this point in the theater, I'm like. He's not dead. And then he takes him up to see the sunset. And he's like, it's beautiful. Oh, we're dead. We're in just tears everywhere. You're sniffing city. And then he's like, we could kill you.

He's like, there's probably time to kill you. He's like, there's probably time to save you. He's like, nah. Just bury me in the oceans. Because my ancestors knew that death was a better fate than bondage. And he pulls out and he's like, and does a slow draw.

I mean, honestly, I was waiting for a slave ship reference. And the bed that came at the end, in a way, it was unexpected. By that point, by the time I heard it, I said, wow, wow. You caught me off guard. I've been waiting for a slave ship reference. And the bed date came at the end. In a way, it was unexpected. By that point, by the time I heard it, I said, wow, wow, you caught me off guard. I've been waiting for it. And it was so perfectly timed. Yes. So perfectly timed.

Sniffle City. Sniffle City. Sniffle City. That's what it was. Yeah. One-way ticket to Sniffle City. I don't want to come back. I don't want to come back from sniffles. And final tenuous recap.

And then Wakanda opens, basically opens its borders, reveals themselves to the UN and they open in Oakland where his father killed his uncle. He turns, he's going to turn it to a Wakandan outreach center and Shuri's's gonna head it up with Nakia. And it's a very beautiful scene where a kid's called the Wakandan spaceship a spaceship Bugatti. Which, when I was in

a black theater, killed. Mostly white theater, did not get it at all. But I still thought that was still like a little,

but I was like, okay, I get it. You want people to know you have stuff? I don't think you should land your spaceship here. Okay? I think you keep

spaceships to yourself. Honestly, purposely, the whole time. The whole time. Let them know you got a little bit of metal. Never let them know you have a spaceship.

I think you can never let them know you've got a spaceship. I was like, oh, shit. But, you know what? Honestly, put yourself out there. I don't know.

I don't know. I'm in such a good mood. Yes. Okay, so before I saw this movie, I didn't know anything about the comic books. I just wasn't familiar with the story. So I was I saw this movie, I didn't know anything about the comic books, wasn't familiar with the story. So I was not expecting this movie to do so well in terms of its portrayal of women.

Well, because we don't expect superhero movies to do well with women ever. Right. Y'all don't know about how black people do, okay? Right. We have no choice because our culture has killed and or incarcerated so many men that black women are in control of the home lives for so many people anyway. So if you tell most black stories, it's going to be a woman kind of running things to some capacity. So then when they went the African route, you know what I mean? Because they were based on real, I don't know what the tribe was.

The Dora Milaje? Yeah, like an actual. Yeah, they are part of the comics, but also, like, Coogler himself has been very... So I guess I'll, like, go more into the part where I saw Coogler talk, which it was the first time I've seen Coogler talk. When was this? Before the movie, you mean? No, this was after.

And he does a Vanity Fair scene breakdown. He breaks down the casino fight scene. Oh, my gosh. Coogler's only 31? Yeah. Oh, God, now I'm gonna kill myself I'm happy my god

uh yeah I got a year to make my so don't worry y'all but yeah and what's what I love about Kugler is he doesn't code switch

he is the most Oakland sounding dude ever he's like so in this breakdown he's like alright so like I had her with a spear

right here and it's like but like you know he's very intelligent and it was cool to scroll down the YouTube comments and everybody be like this guy's a genius like, all right, so like I had it with a spear right here. And it's like, but like, you know, he's very intelligent and it was cool to scroll down the YouTube comments and everybody be like, this guy's a genius. Cause it's like, wow, we can speak how we speak and don't feel the need to white it up. Uh, you know, me and Naomi are still up ship's creek. We just, we sound like this at all times. I grew up in Compton and was constantly asked why I talk white. It's because my father's people were colonized by the British. He knows no other way to teach me.

But he very much like I was doing the second team podcast with Cody Ziegler who saw his student film that he did where it was called I think The Cut or The Haircut. And it's about this man with dreads and and he's walking to the barbershop, and he's, like, seeing all these other black men with dreads, and they're dapping each other up. And he goes and he sits down, he cuts his hair. And then the reveal at the end is that he cuts his hair because his little sister has cancer and got chemo, and he's doing it to match her.

And he was talking about how, like, within that, he's exploring, like, your blackness being attached to your hair and all this. But also the uplifting and supporting women within that story. And I feel like Coogler's always kind of had a mind to do that. And I feel like this movie, I mean, y'all will tell me better than I would know. He really went all out. But I'm going to let y'all do y'all thing. Honestly, that's really brave of you as a man.

The way you stepped back and were ready to listen. Look, I'm just trying to be more like Agent Ross. To take his cues from the... Honestly, didn't you feel like, I thought the best thing, I thought Martin Freeman's caucasity was utilized to great effect. I thought it was great comedic effect. It wasn't too heavy

handed. We didn't have this moment where it was like, I'm an African girl now. Yeah. You know what I mean? He never did that thing. Yeah. I had one family member on Facebook where it was like,

well, I love the movie except for the white savior. They had to have that. But I was like, okay, honey, they pretty much gave him

a task to do where the black girl walked him through it. You know what I mean? It wasn't like he fixed it. I literally had the same conversation

with someone today where he's like, I still find he was kind of white savior. So I was like, how everything he did, he was commanded to do. I was like, he couldn't have done it himself.

He literally was begging for advice from a black woman. Like the whole time. Like, I don't know what to do. And that's, I think is the beauty of it is like him being like, I don't tell me, tell me,

please. And Shuri, while in the middle of a fight, is walking this dude through. Thank you. Yeah, she's multitasking. Yeah.

Yeah. One of the first things I wanted to say, so all of T'Challa's warriors are women. They are bald women, so that passes the loftest test. Yes. Baldest woman in charge. Yes.

Baldest woman in charge? Is that your test? Okay. So the people that he's relying on to protect him, his life is in their hands are all women. We never see that sort of thing where the warriors are

women. I was like, holy shit, that's fucking awesome. And they're not repeatedly asked to as I feel like they kind of often are in action movies, asked to prove themselves. We meet them they're very capable they know exactly what the fuck they're doing and it's never called into question where i feel like a lot of movies ask its female protagonist to prove themselves to the male protagonist before they can start doing stuff right so that was like amazing yeah it seems that t'challa and pretty much all the men in the entire country respect all women. Wakanda seems like it's a gender equality utopia.

That was the most magical thing about it. I was like, fuck the vibranium. I was like, wow, sisters doing it for themselves. Yeah, feminist icon Wakanda is what's happening. Half of the tribal elders are women. At least half of T'Challa's closest advisors are women because he's got Nakia, Okoye, and Shuri, and he's also got a few others like Wakabi and Zori. So many of the scenes in this movie are him and two or three women just fighting and kicking

ass and getting the job done. Yeah. You never see that. It's usually the opposite. It's like a ton of men and maybe a woman and often not even a single woman. Yeah, like maybe one woman who has to prove herself and make out with someone by the end. Or it's like when she does have a skill, if she's not obviously the superhero like Scarlett Johansson's character, I forget her name, but if it is a woman who like suddenly she kicks someone and is able to save

it, you know, it's always like a surprising moment. It's like, I didn't know I could do that. I didn't know you could do that. You know, it's used for that.

Yeah. And I felt like, oh, sorry. Then the male protagonist is like, yeah, that's because you were near my hard dick. Like that's why.

Being near my hard dick made you suddenly capable. Oh my gosh. Right. But what I was going gonna say is i feel like kugler also made a real good point to say like these women are just as capable like if we look at the korean uh chase scene black panther is on the car and then who else but okoye she gets on the car now and she's fucking shit up just as much I lost my mind literally I was holding hands with my betrothed and whenever Danai Gurira did anything I would squeeze his hand I was overcome I had sexuality

and power to release but we were in a public space she I'm telling you on the fucking tap of that car spear through the hood red dress flying I was dead and you know I said this before we started it's like literally deny guerrera she had to put in her fucking eight years as michonne yeah okay to get hers and i was like i mean even when she was michonne she was amazing but i was like oh

yeah you've been like killing people with a spear for eight years so now you get to do it yeah for marvel and it was just like so she didn't have to wear them locks that wig it was like girl like she just was fucking free and killing them oh my god

and when she threw her wig I love her wig it was very empowering it spoke to me as a black woman honestly by the end when I was done I was like

I gotta grow my hair out okay go back to natural hair do the bar method connect with my estranged African father those are the things I took away from that movie so fun facts about the casino scene since we're talking about it.

I love fun facts. Wigthrow was in the first draft and he was like, we kept it the whole time. We loved it. That was our favorite thing. So also he said that in that fight scene, he wanted to play with femininity versus, you know, functionality or something. He's a way smart thing that he says that I'm fucking up. But also here's some cool fun facts about it, about the color theory in that scene.

So, Danai Aguilera's wearing red, Lupita's wearing green, and Black Panther's wearing black. That was on purpose because that's the Pan-African flag. Klaus wearing blue because that's the color of colonization of the colonizer that he said

who's wearing blue throughout the whole movie, our boy Michael B. jordan um the action scene where she's spinning the spear around her neck to fight those guys that wasn't a stunt double that was actually denied but yeah he wanted to play with the idea of using like you know lethal femininity which is why he specifically wanted the part where lupita takes her heel off and hits the guy and so like he really and he said like you know when that guy grabs her and she like kicks his ass he said he wanted to explore that because you know the unwanted touch and like really defending yourself especially in Wakanda where like you know that shit doesn't like

fly so he was very like to hear him talk about it and be very conscious about like just like he yeah it wasn't just like oh we're just gonna have females kicking ass you know just like dudes we're just gonna put you know just replace a dude character make it a female like he very he was very conscious about like what it mean the message and how it looked that That's awesome. God damn it, Coogler. I know. 31. 31? Where did he find the time to get smart? I know. Let us know. He went to SAC, and then he went to grad school in USC.

Oh, does he have a master's degree? Like a certain someone we know who does have a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. I hate to bring it up. What's your exact birthday? My exact birthday? And her social? What are you asking?

What's your period number? Because we might be the same age. May 17th. He's May 23rd. You guys are born the same week. I'm older than him by, what, six days? Yeah. Wow. I have to pass away. Wow.

I always get so excited when someone's born within a few days. I'm like, we have nothing. I contacted someone. When's your birthday? My birthday is August 18th, 92. And I contacted- I have to leave. I'm sorry.

Are you kidding me? Why didn't you tell me this shit before I got here? 92? One of the girls from the School of Rock was born on the same exact day as me, and I contacted her. I was like, I have to find you. We were born under the same moon.

Got really into it. That's a good way to start any email. Okay, so the next thing I want to say is that all of the main characters who are women in this movie are given an incredible skill set. So we've got, Shuri is a woman in STEM.

Black woman in STEM. Black woman in STEM. She is the designer of all of Black Panther's technology, and it seems like most of the technology in the entire city, she's the head engineer. Here's a question, though.

She's supposed to be a child prodigy, right? I know in real life she's 23 or 24. She looks 15. How old is she supposed to be? Like a teenager? I think she's supposed to be a child prodigy, right? Because she literally, I know in real life she's 23 or 24. She looks 15. I think she's supposed to. How old is she supposed to be? Like a teenager? I think she's supposed to be like 15 or 16. Oh, really?

She is supposed to be, okay, a teen genius. She registered to me as like early 20s. It says on the official page 16. Oh, shit. Wow. Okay. Yeah. I love their relationship.

The brother-sister relationship. It's so nice. I hear Chadwick knew right away she was the one as soon as they met she was like doing little sister roast and he was like this is the one so that's Shuri then we've got Nakia she is a spy like an international spy

and a competent fighter she's very good at fighting she does not want to be queen she's like I have a calling, okay? Like, you cute and all, but I got shit to do. Exactly. That's Bechdel. That's A++.

What? The whole point? For sure. Like, the fact that she's given a desire beyond just, like, wanting to be with T'Challa is, like, we never see that in superhero movies. And, I mean, just, like, based on how

women are portrayed in media in general where you're you know it's like you're aspiring to the princess role you're aspiring to be royalty all the time to see someone reject that and be like actually i have this thing that i'm really good at that i want to be doing like that that is huge totally because it's like you're rejecting the first thing you're taught as a little kid of like yeah you want to be a princess probably right yeah right right and she's like no're rejecting the first thing you're taught as a little kid of like, yeah, you want to be a princess probably. Right? Yeah. Right. And she's like, no thanks. I got to go fix the world. And she's like, okay, okay, okay. What about if I like helped you fix the world? Yeah, yeah.

That's what I was going to say. She fucking set the barometer. He compromised for her. He's like, please, please. And then Okoye, she's the general of T'Challa's army and she's, someone says the greatest warrior in all of wakanda like she so it's these like three completely badass women who are given agency and skills and desires that relate to the male hero but they are their own women they exist

outside of the male characters yes yeah yeah yeah with their own journeys i thought the only the only part of it and you tell me like was i could have used and i'm sure just got cut even the movie did not feel long they could have put it back in i wanted to see wakabi and okoye together because you hear them say like my love twice but you don't actually like see that relationship yeah and again i appreciate the fact that we did not see a kiss until the very end of that movie and we weren't letting romance run things but i think it would have had it would have helped it even be more impactful just to because she is this warrior person what would that have looked like for her in a romantic setting like what if in any way does she let her bald hair down you know what i mean like how does that look

if that happens you know i just would have loved to see that second so that then too when she did because i thought too because like you hear him say it and in that moment at the end i was like i mean i mean bechdel hello he was like would you kill me she was like yeah bitch yeah i kill you i was like that is accurate yeah i just looked at that as because remember this movie was the original cut was four hours long oh was it yeah so so i'm like all right that was part of the hour that was cut. Okay, okay. Oh my gosh, extended version, I'm probably going to see that 20 times.

Yeah. But it was still under like, it was still like 210 or something. I remember thinking, because I was supposed to meet someone, I was like, oh, I'm not going to get out for like two hours and 45 minutes.

And then I was done in like 215, 220 with previews. So I was like, oh wow, this is very streamlined and still had all the turns it had for Michael B. coming in and fighting him and then taking over, then getting unseated. And it was still like right and tight and I said, well then no other movie has any excuse.

Give me that director's cut. Because also I'm surprised that the stuff Disney let fly like when he was like, all people come from here, aren't they all your people? I'm like, ooh, Disney let people do the fucking everybody from Africa fact?

I know. I thought that would definitely be cut out. It was way blacker than I thought. Yeah. I really was like, wow, they did this. They did this, okay?

Excessive shoulder shake. Also, what was cool too is like, you know, they, and I'm pretty sure they couldn't do it because of the PGg-13 level but having klaus say savages versus niggers because you knew he meant it like that every time he said he was like they're savages but uh but part of me was like you need to be dropping

that hard r for me to really feel this what you're trying to get me to feel really see i thought the savages it was that like old school colonial this is why we deserve to take this they're animals that's a nice take that's a nice take so i was like that was part of my tarantino brain i was like oh man they should say nigger and more feet more feet have not enough feet can i see okay his feet i need to see okay his feet uh for the love of god more feet i mean that has been the main criticism. Black Panther, not enough feet.

That one Rotten Tomatoes review. We're in Africa. We know they don't wear shoes. Where are the feet? We do see T'Challa's feet, though. He has those sandals. Oh, by the way, that was the only kind of like, my nigga, you got African feet. Those were the most African feet. I was like, oh, am I looking at my dad's feet?

I mean, between the beard work dad's feet oh I mean between the beard work and the feet I said this is a true story this is a documentary Ryan Coogler's pulling the punches

oh my god those feet I'm like y'all couldn't even dress them up a little bit man see that

that's look I know how my feet look if they're like if we're gonna show CGI it CGI my feet I would definitely say I need a foot double

very real okay i have been known to scratch up andy's little leg in the back okay i have an african heel okay it takes extra work i don't always put it in so i get it yeah i really liked that we got to see wakanda like in all of its because uh one of the things that bothered me about for all the things i liked about wonder woman is that we don't get to see the world that our hero comes from a lot and it's such that is how you say yeah that was something that i was worried about going into this movie is like oh we're gonna be introduced to wakanda and i had to do research into the comic books to know what i was uh like setting myself up for because i was like there is this huge world that we're going into and i'm worried

that we'll barely get to see it but i felt like it was like for the relatively short runtime like it was like fully realized fully explored and we got to like see it because because so often i feel like we start with like 20 minutes of origin story and then we're out and we're in like Toronto for two hours or some shit. It was exciting. Well, they shot it right in South Korea, South Africa, and then randomly some Atlanta, Georgia stuff. And I love the way they used Georgia for like, or yeah, not Atlanta per se, but like Georgia in general. It's like, you know, kind of dusty, kind of dirty. You can really double as a lot of places.

But it was like, I could tell. I was like, oh oh they're in actual Africa you know what I mean or even if they were just establishing shots it did like make all that stuff feel you know

it was beautiful it was so cool it was gorgeous I'm gonna tell them I'm gonna connect with my estranged father yeah I saw Black Panther

and thought maybe you know we should talk make sure you lead oh no I'm gonna tell them exactly why I'm not to tell him exactly why. I'm not going to lead him to believe that he's done something. Like Ryan Coogler at Brunch Together.

One of the very few gripes I have with this movie is that I think that the Queen character was a little underwritten, but I kind of wish she had more of a stance on things. Angela Bassett? Because it's Angela Bassett. You always want Angela Bassett to have more to do. Right. I don't know she had more of a stance on things or just like more to do. Angela Bassett? Yeah.

Because it's Angela Bassett. You always want Angela Bassett to have more to do. Right. I don't know, but she's a mom. It's like, okay. Yeah, that was kind of like a cut and dry maternal. But I hope, I mean, now that I know that there's a four hour cut of this movie, I'm like, how much Angela Bassett hit the cutting room floor?

Oh, man. She had to leave so much for that new show 9-1-1. Oh, yeah. Look, I want to get into i want to surprise but i'm like there's no way angela bassett is ever going to play blue collar for me i'm like i'm sorry get out of here no why is this queen in a cop uniform she's elegant she's elegant yeah so we touched on this already a little bit but there are countless scenes where women are kicking ass assisting black panther in whatever mission

they're on like like we said it's usually him and then several women so there's like the scene very early on in nigeria t'challa shows up he interrupts i think it's a mission that nikki is on i don't know if it has to do with like human trafficking or something yeah so she's trying to put an end to that he kind of he like shows up he's like my dad's dead please come to my ceremony and she's like you ruined my mission but um a fight breaks out but before that okoye was like you're gonna see her and you're gonna freeze he's like no i'm not she's like you're gonna need my help he's like i'll be fine and then he freezes because she's so strong and powerful that he's like oh my god and then

like he does have to like step in save him and then everything's fine but it's like you see right away the movie after the flashback in 1992 in oakland the next thing we see is that one in nigeria and so like right away we're just seeing two women kicking ass then there's a sequence in south korea first they're in the, and then it transfers to out in the street when they're basically trying to capture Klaue and stop him from doing the deal with the vibranium. And it's Nakia Okoye, and then Shuri is, like, remote. She's still in Wakanda, but she's, like, doing the whole, like,

driving the car and all that stuff. She's driving the car. She's leading Black Panther. She's leading him, okay? She's in charge of him arriving. Right. So it's like you see. I'm like, can you have a driver's license like yourself?

Right. She's like. Yeah. When you built the car. Built a license. That's true. Yeah. So it's three women and one man fighting all the bad guys.

And it's just like. I can watch those scenes over and over again. Toward the end, we've got Okoye and the other warrior women fighting Killmonger. And then she goes off and fights sort of the rest of the people. And then Nakia and Shuri fight him. So it's like this rapid fire, like, bunch of women fighting the bad guy. It's just like, I'm like speechless with how cool it is to watch. I mean, Okoye stopped the war.

She literally stopped the battle. You know what I mean? Like she literally causes Wakabi to put down his weapon, get on his knees and all the other men follow suit. Yeah. Because you think it's a big moment when Jabari show up, right? Because that's another, you're like, oh, they're going to shut this down. Yeah. And then it was actually her.

I mean, just, I think the most perfect image is that rhinoceros, her stepping in front of it and just bringing it to a halt. You know what I mean? And then it licks her face. Like, you know, and you're just like, oh yeah, who in charge here? You know what I'm saying?

Like she literally just got that massive animal to stop in its tracks. And she's like, all right, we don't do this. Yeah, but the beauty is that scene ends with all those men bowing to women. And what was a cool little note that was an extra kind of cherry on top was when the Jabari did show up,

they made an effort to show a female Jabari warrior kill someone before the cut. So it showed our man in bakus grab, yank someone, throws them, but then in the next shot you see like nope they got females too and they're kicking ass like it really you could tell there was an effort put to be like no we're showing that women are kick just as much ass it isn't like you know this isn't a dude came to save the day it's like this dude's army came another thing i wanted

to talk about is like you know in a lot of action movies i find that when you do have kick-ass women it usually there's another woman a woman for the women to fight and it's like two women fighting i think the only one you didn't really see that with was like atomic blonde where like and she was the super kick-ass woman and she was going toe-to-toe with dudes right but like in this one it was like no also no woman betrayed the the thing all the women were loyal in this movie and all the women were on the good side yeah well even like a coy i thought it was interesting again what we said about them being their own people like you know that scene between lupita i'm just gonna hello i'm like lupita okoye deny you know i'm just calling them but you know where you really did see kind of, it's like, I don't necessarily

it's like, I didn't agree with Okoye in that moment where she's like, I serve the throne whoever's on it. Like, it was a tough you were like, well, this is this character's you know, code of ethics. Whether we agree, like at least this character has a code, right? And then you're like, and she's not comfortable but she's like, what do I have to do? Then she

finally steps up, but then it comes back to in the end her love of country which was her you know what I mean like which is her backbone anyway you know around Lupita's like

I'm just a spy I'm just an ex-girlfriend just fine you know and how it's like no you're a fighter too you know what I mean you don't just lurk

the fact that she has an arc like she goes it's like women never even get arcs most of the time in movies so it's like oh cause she goes

and then she sort of is grappling with this thing it's like who who am i loyal to the fact that she's struggling with something so complicated is like yeah great like we don't see women do that in movies yeah and it's crazy because and i feel like it speaks to like the performance and the writing of like there's not a ton of screen time spent on that particular issue. But every time she's there, you feel that. And it's like, yeah, we can write female characters who have these inner struggles, even if it is a movie that's primarily about a man. And I also, I really liked the tone of, I think a lot of times in like action movies, and I'm not particularly into action movies but like a lot of times when there are women in battle the movie kind of goes out of its way to congratulate itself on being like look we showed a woman fighting girl power right and that always like that that really

fucking bothers me when it's like look we put a girl in it is that you do you like that we do a good job may we have a trophy and it's like no no like the way the warriors are treated are as equals and they're fighting each other and yeah like it's like you were saying if he it's like coogan's not going out of his way to be like hey look i i included women like it's so normalized right it's just what it is yeah it's also like you know i know people called out Wonder Woman's costuming and stuff. I noticed definitely immediately they were fully covered. Yeah. That they, you know, because they are bald too, you know.

And it was tricky with Wonder Woman because don't worry, I did cry during it. So it's not like I don't feel it. But there is this sense sometimes of it gets a little sexy. You know, you get your slow-mo where it's like a fucking hair flip. The hair. You know what I mean? And it's like a close in on abs and contortion, you know you get your slow-mo where it's like a fucking hair the hair you know what i mean and it's like a close in on abs and contortion you know um and this one it was not that they weren't beautiful but it was so much about like strength and power it was less about yeah it was less about

like right the women are never sexualized yeah this like even when i mean even when you see them look beautiful showing up in korea and lupita's got the fucking stank face. Yeah. See what I mean? She doesn't like the wig. So even if it's like they look great, but she's just like, give me the fuck alone. You know what I mean? She does not want to be bothered even in that moment where it's like they are unapologetically sexy. Right. Oh my God.

The figures, the bodies, the dresses, everything about it. There's no sort of like so often in especially action movies where there is like one female character. Which is sort of most of Wonder Woman too. True. You get the first 20 minutes in Themyscira, but then she would, Oh shit, you're so right. Dude's looking hot for the rest of the movie.

She is the one, like it is her movie, and then for the most of the movie, she is the one woman surrounded by these men. Right. And she's also has to kind of prove to them that she's not crazy. Right.

She's like, no, come on, we've got to come together. And they're like, this broad. I thought about that a lot since we recorded our Wonder Woman episode because we recorded it so soon after we both saw it where I was still like, ugh. But I've seen it two times since then and there's a lot about that movie

that's like, there are those moments where she's hot and proving herself to World War I soldiers. And it's like, why? Why does it always have to be a question? I also didn't like the bait. Again, I think my tears were in that opening sequence. I love that part. But then we get to this point where what I don't like

is that she, as a result of not being connected to the world, she was infantilized. See what I mean? Where everything is new to her. The born sexy infantilized. See what I mean? Like where everything is like new to her. The born sexy yesterday trope. Is that a trope? Born sexy yesterday? Yeah.

Pop culture detective did a video about it, about this trope that's super common in a lot of like sci-fi movies especially. Oh yes. Where it's like a fully grown sexual woman who is like, I'm a baby. Yeah.

Which is super, the seconds you identify that trope you're like oh like why no but they're yeah and and that's absent from this movie yeah oh yeah no the women are always a authority like if we jump to the scene where they're questioning claw and like she sees like a on the screen she walks up to him in korean is like yo what's that and he's just like oh this is what it is like he's never like who are you or like you know you get that like yeah he's like oh this is what's going on and then uh or like that wonderful scene where like her and chadwick are having the conversation in nyosha like in front of Ross, doing like just a perfect African job

of how they talk shit in their language while staring right at you. And he's like, does she speak English? And she's like, when she wants to, shut up. Like you get out of here. Like never once are they made to look dumb or in secondary to anyone. They're always an authority.

And that was, like, real cool to see. The whole thing was, like, I'm not, even that, you know, that scene really highlights it. But the whole idea is, like, I'm not here for you. Yeah. You know, I'm not here for you to make you feel better. Right? Because they don't say what you want to hear all the damn time. I'm not here to have sex with you.

Or they don't even really, you know, they don't even have the moment, either of them, because I definitely thought it would come into play because they do look so good going into that casino scene. There was not a moment where they like use sex to trick someone. That doesn't happen, you know what I mean? She's in a fucking skin tight dress working it and there's never anything where like

a man, you know what I mean? She like plays with a man's idiocy to get her way. It's like, nah I'm gonna do my job and then when it's time to fight I fight you know yeah you don't even get the feeling that she's wearing the dress for anyone but just cause it's what she wanted she's like we have to look fancy we're going to a party it's like but yeah they

don't do that thing which I think you see obviously all the time and it's always meant to be obviously a comment on male stupidity but it is still like it's become a trope that it's now it feels lazy when it's become a trope that it's now it's it feels lazy when it happens right right also something i thought about is like you know you have the scene where michael b jordan is like bonnie and clyde girl he just like shoots her oh yeah and it's like straight up and i feel like in a movie without any of these strong women it probably

would have made me go come on you know but it's it's that thing that we talk about where like when people like this isn't a big deal. This isn't because it was like it wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't the only thing that, you know, that goes on. But the simple fact that you have so many strong women, so many women with like speaking roles, so many that like killing her off like it doesn't matter to make that statement doesn't ring as hollow as it normally does when you have your fridging scene. But that also, I think tells you, he, you know, because of how he does set up femininity,

it's exactly how, you know, he's a bad guy. Yeah. When we don't know the fact that he takes a woman out so soullessly when it's clear they did have some sort of a sexual bond, you know, and she's even like,

I'm sorry. You know, she says that for a second. He's like, bye bitch. It lets you know immediately. Oh, he's no good. Right, and she's even like, I'm sorry. You know, she says that for a second. He's like, bye, bitch. It lets you know immediately, oh, he's no good. Oh, yeah. And he's also like, you ain't

Wakandan, boy. You know what I'm saying? You don't roll with the way we roll up in here. We don't just be shooting them out. You know? All three times, too, gasped on that scene. Everybody's like, oh, because you are like, this is his girl. This is like, she's been for all one of his heists.

They're always making out. He's like, nah, I got a bigger mission. Right. He kills a few women because toward the end, he slips the throat of one of the warriors. And then in the early, I think the only white woman you see in the entire movie is that British woman at the British Museum. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who, I don't know if she dies, but she gets poisoned. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who, I don't know if she dies, but she gets poisoned. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hits her with this straight up Hotep speech. Oh, you think, so how do you think your ancestors got this, huh? And you're like, okay, we get it. You're woke. She was like with her coffee and was like, okay. I think you can leave now. Exactly.

But I also loved how extra he looked in that scene. Oh, yeah. It was like so extra because it was like the layers of denim. Was it a vest or was it a jacket over the hoodie? It was a jacket. It was the Brody Reed jacket. Who? Brody Reed. You know that comic? Brody! Yeah, Brody. Yeah, Brody Reed

has that exact same jacket and the exact same hair style. Oh really? Yes. And I feel like he was wearing your glasses. Yeah, he was totally rocking the circular. It was like a fusion between. He was doing so many looks. He was giving so many looks in the museum.

I just thought, I was like, honestly, your lucky security didn't come to you close. Like, sooner. I was like, you're very extra right now. I mean, you do feel that moment when Michael B. takes that lady out. I don't remember. Did she have a name, that character? I don't know if we ever learned that. No, we never learned that. We called her Relaxed Hair. And then she was taken out. out i don't remember did she does she have a name that character i don't know if we ever know

we called her relaxed hair and then she was taken out see that was the big that was the bigger message in the movie is the one woman without natural hair she gotta go you gotta go i feel like that was like you were saying anyway like it's like a a villain moment because it's hard for like even though i you go into it you're like oh michael b's the bad guy but it's like hard for michael b to lose me and then once he killed the lady i was like oh okay he kind of lost me that's a great way to lose me in the mood it's straight up murder a woman in cold blood because i'll forgive a lot in a hot villain yeah we know about your take on spider-man 2 and alfred my my doc ock thick villain yeah hey well i love a thick villain look at my romantic history right but that also that

leads me to another thing i wanted to talk about as far as like tropes in superhero movies in general so i would say of the movies that we've done so far in this podcast, we see a trend of movies with a female protagonist faring better in terms of their portrayal of women. Movies with male protagonists usually get like a one nipple rating. So Black Panther is like a rare example of a movie with a male protagonist that services its female characters extremely well because like not every movie needs to have a female protagonist like women make up roughly 50 percent of the people like we it's 51 51 so um actually it's 51 men identifying people would make up that but then

there's also gender queer and non-binary people who make up a small percentage of people as well but because like i think it's somewhere around 70 percent of movies feature a male protagonist so we see this huge like gender imbalance in terms of movies but i think it is the responsibility of movies that do have a male protagonist to still treat its female characters well so food food them do. Black Panther does. What does suck is that this movie still follows the trend of a superhero movie with a male protagonist. I'm hoping with the success of Wonder Woman, we'll see like a shift in that soon.

But this still follows the trend of being a superhero movie with a male protagonist. But I think it goes to great lengths to subvert the tropes that we see in superhero movies, the tropes that like, that are specific to the treatment of women. I've made a list

of just a few of them. I'm sure there are dozens more. Kaelin, how many different colors, fonts, highlights? Oh my God.

She's a lot of sections. It's a lot. Kaelin's notes are legendary. It's crazy. Okay, I'm so lame. Wait, it's almost like she went to fucking

grad school. So, some of the tropes include there only being one female main character. Yeah. She's poised as the love interest in pretty much nothing else. She's given no agency. She's given little or no backstory. She's given little or no goal or desire outside of being with the male hero. Very often she disappears for 45 minutes at a time.

And then she comes back and it's like oh, did she come back for a kiss? Often because she was captured and held as bait. And she's not able to fight. She has to be saved by the male hero. Black Panther subverts all of these trips.

Women are never damseled. They're given agency. They have their own lives, their own backstories. We have already talked about that. There is one tiny moment where... Captain Buzzkill. I'm kidding. I'm teasing you.

Where Killmonger has his spear or whatever raised above Shuri and is probably about to kill her, and Black Panther does have to throw him out of the way, basically. But that moment, it didn't even register for me until my third viewing because it's so quick

and it doesn't feel like she's damseled and she has to be saved because up until that point she had been fighting and then after that point she continues fighting. That to me felt like a team moment.

Right. Yeah, yeah. And then being siblings helped out. Because women save male warriors' asses so many times in this movie that it was like exactly okay yeah and compare that sequence to the ending of for example spider-man 2 where mary jane is literally in shackles cannot do anything but we all know know that that's really Alfred Molina's movie. Like, we could have chained up the whole, like, we would just be like, let's just

everyone else get out of frame. Let the man flex with his claws. Damn it. Yeah, the one time she, like, Mary Jane tries to do anything, she's immediately flung out of the way. She's literally thrown out of the climax of the movie. That happens to women all the time. What was the movie we did recently literally thrown out of the climax of the movie. That happens to women all the time in movies where they're, what was the movie

we did recently where like the female protagonist, it was Pacific Rim where They wake up at the end basically. Like they get knocked out and then they come to and it's all been solved. Right. The movie Make Him Worry. She is literally launched out of the climactic scene

of that movie. She's sealed up in a little pod and they're like see you later bitch and then and then we see her at the end for a little nuzzle and it's just like fuck off dude they're and that movie doesn't i mean i just i anytime a woman's launched out of the climax of the movie uh i'm just like well uh okay cool great great great great great um let us know how it ends yeah right another thing i want to talk about is I labeled this section men be crying because you see

no less than five men in this movie crying which is amazing like showing men crying in movies sends a message to men and young boys who are seeing the movie that it's okay to cry I think that's why I love the new Queer Eye the new Queer Eye is just men crying

and it has never touched me. I watched it all yesterday and I was like, why is everyone going crazy over this? And I was like, oh, correct. Men cry the entire time. White men, black men, young men, old men, everyone's crying. It fed me. It was mana. It was mana. Nectar.

Okay, is what I'm trying to say. I'm saving it. Save it for trying to say. I'm saving it. Save it for a dark day. I'm saving it for when I need it and then I'm canceling everything. Clear my schedule. I've got queer eyes. Yeah, because I feel like so much of toxic masculinity

stems from men not being able to emote and feel their feelings and be expressive of their feelings. So the fact that you see T'Challa crying, you see his dad T'Chaka crying, you see Zuri, who we haven't really talked about, but it's Forest Whitaker's character. You see N'Jobu crying, that's Sterling K. Brown, and you see Killmonger crying. You see five men shedding tears.

Killmonger, indulge or killmonger the boy? Oh, right. You see them both. I think the adult. They go back and forth. Yeah. How does it feel as a black man to see black men cry? Oh, it's great, I didn't feel this cleanse since Moonlight Just back to being cleansed

They went to Sniffle City, if you will One way to take it The moments when men were crying in this movie I'm like, oh man, I'm really glad this movie's PG-13 I'm glad that oh, man, I'm really glad this movie's PG-13. For little boys. Yeah, I'm glad that young men can see this. No tears for your father.

We're in it again. Everybody dies. We've entered sound clip five. That kid was, yeah, he's like 11. He's like, everybody dies. And I'm like, whoa, no, kid. Go play with some toys. That's reality.

Out in these streets. Out in with some toys. That's reality. Out in these streets. Out in fucking 1992 Oakland. Holding it down. Oh, man. Speaking of toys. So, sorry. Interesting transition. Yeah, I know.

The scene where he's trying on his new shoes. She's like, oh, I call them sneakers. Ha ha ha. She's like, these are like fully automated shoes, just like the ones in the American movie that Baba used to wear. What movie? Back to the Future 2. Okay, that's what I thought. That's what I assumed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just like, did they just make a Back to the Future 2 reference? Very sneaky, too. Oh, my God. It was a very just peak nerd where it's like, you have to know to know. If you know, you know. Another thing I wanted to mention is that it's a panther goddess that shows the wakandans the flower okay you just yeah like panther yeah it's like pussy

goddess flower it's like okay we get it it's about women right and it's did someone say pussy goddess flower because it's a flower that gives the black panther his power yeah flowers are very feminine little things

and the fact that it's not like some because so many superheroes are usually like oh you're very rich and good at technology and that's why you're a superhero

or a rock hit you yeah you were strong enough to withstand this rock and now you're super so yeah I liked it that it was a flower that gives him his powers. Flower power.

Okay, now you're making it sound less strong. Okay, you don't ruin the vibe for me. Did you know that flowers have- We came forth from the pussy goddess flower. I was gonna say that flower, I was gonna be like, did you know that flowers have eight petals? And I was gonna make a fake flower fact with him.

But then I remembered panthers are cats. Panthers have. Cats have eight nipples. Yeah. This is cat fact with Caitlin. Also, I think. Oh, yeah. That's crazy that we've been talking about panther and that hasn't come up sooner.

Right. I think that Black Panther's suit should have had eight nipples on it. Similar to the George Clooney nipple Batman suit. Oh, that would have been so distracting. If he looked very confused. Yeah, if he was like, absolutely not. Because I could picture it. Because I remember that Batman suit.

It was like, oh man, just eight of them. Could anyone actually summarize that movie? Or were we so transfixed by the nips? I stand for the nips. Okay, good. I transfixed by the nips i i i stand for the nips okay good i'm here for the nips something that's been talked about a lot in this movie is colorism and how it's very rare to see dark-skinned black people oh it was the greatest moment of my life i loved it i loved it i loved it light-skinned people have been tripping over themselves. I know. They've been saying that. Yeah, because you're in everything else.

Give us this. You have Shamar Moore, who's in there having just weird threesomes. So, give us this. And you get most rap videos, ladies. Yeah. So, it like literally did make me feel better. Because I'm constantly like, because I've been going out on auditions. This is my first go at LA pilot season and what it is to kind of go in for stuff.

And even just to read the script. I was like, this is for a white woman. You know what I mean? When I literally read it and I'm like, okay, so how much work do I put in here? How likely is this? My whole big thing is I was like, I'm never going to be on TV.

My eyes are too small. Everyone has big eyes like dinner plates. And then I was watching. I was like, actually, no, most black people don't. I was oh that's like a thing you know what i mean like it's a white standard of beauty and then like i was watching that movie and i was like okay no maybe i'm okay maybe i'm okay i will shave my head though but i was like but it was i don't know it was like just on that very minor level where i was like okay maybe i'm not so bad but it's unfortunate that it's either a totally black world or it's like the one black

person supporting a caucasian dream you know what i mean but anyway but it was so great and i was like oh god looking at lighting all those black people so well so magically picking up all the tones one of the very few female cinematographer in this movie oh awesome uh her name is rachel morrison and she was the, she did Mudbound. And isn't she nominated for Mudbound? She's nominated. And is the first, I did not know this, first female. First woman, yeah, first female cinematographer ever nominated.

Because cinematographers are almost never women on mainstream big Hollywood movies. Yeah. Oh, one last thing I wanted to say. Do you think that there is a surprise kiss at the end of this movie there's a kiss a fan mentioned it might be a surprise kiss because he kind of so it's after the whole battle t'challa and nakia are hanging out in the city and he's like please stay please i you can do men do a lot of begging in this movie which is like pretty tight it's like very sexually charged for me yeah i was like this i love there yeah but continue so like yeah he's like you can

do what you want to do i have like an idea for you because her whole thing has been she wants to basically do like outreach and use the resources that wakanda has to help other parts of the world and he's like yeah we can like figure out a way for you to do that without staying here with me. She's like, eh. Please be my girlfriend. And then he swoops in and kisses her. It's not in a situation where she was necessarily expecting it

or prepared for it. I read it as kind of a surprise kiss. Yeah. But then he kind of backs away. He's like, sorry, I had to. I read it as kind of a surprise kiss. Yeah. Yeah. But then he like kind of backs away. He's like, sorry, I had to. I almost died. There's nothing like that.

But then she leans in and kisses him. So she returns it. Right. It's not, I mean, on the spectrum of surprise kisses, the worst, of course, being the mummy, a feral Brendan Fraser leaping out of a cage and kissing a woman who immediately falls in love with him which is like cartoonish i i feel like this was sort of a surprise kiss and i feel like because i just saw this movie i was like because that's how movies condition us to

feel about the surprise kiss sometimes i did appreciate that she returned it so it wasn't like i don't know but i think it kind of was yeah i feel like it was just in the sense that they had history and i feel like when you're around your ex and you're like what's up sorry and i also like that he i also do like that he acknowledged like yo i did kind of put it press the gas yeah yeah plant the gas and then she was like all right you good this time but next time i know that's all well it was to me and again maybe i missed it but that was the only time he joked that was the only funny line he said in the whole movie you know he was not the funny one not a character of levity no no and so when he's like i almost

died you're kind of like oh you you know i did i know because that registered to me and then i was just like but it but i know part of me also wonders if it was like because i i might be misremembering the trope but isn't it usually like the girl does a small kiss and then like the guy's like yeah it's time so i was wondering if it was a flip on that no the surprise kiss is the trope and the girl's like, yeah, it's time. So I was wondering if it was a flip on that. No, the surprise kiss is the trope. And the girl's like, it's okay. I don't remember.

I don't remember a lot. I mean, it goes both. But I think normally it is like man comes in for a kiss that the woman is surprised about. Remember, arms go from open to close and she takes it in. She steps the kiss into her heart. Where when the kiss starts, it's like, this could go either way. This could go either way. But almost every time it's like, this could go either way, this could go either way, but almost every time it's like, no, she just fell in love somehow. He's got

radioactive fuck saliva. And now she's gonna, whatever. Speaking of funny characters, though, it's all the women. All the women have all the laugh lines. Oh, yeah. Except for M'Baku. He has a few. Yeah, M'Baku, thick zaddy M'Baku, really has some good shit. Are you done?

I mean, Are you done? I love him. I mean, are you done? He was here. He was just here. He was just here. Sorry, y'all. I have a million bottles in front of me because I have an unquenchable thirst. He's intermittent drinking. That's what happens when I think about Lupita Nyong'o and Lita Wright and every strong woman.

Like, man. I figured that out in Atomic Blonde that women kicking men's ass is like, oof, that's, oh my gosh. It would get you going. We just haven't been allowed to see it yet. I know. It's like, this is what I need right here. Let's talk about whether or not

the movie passes the Bechdel test. It does. It passes it next. It does. I passes it. Next. I'm sorry. No, do your podcast. There are a lot of scenes where women are talking about usually T'Challa. So those do not pass. I found a few.

Can I take a guess? Yes. Just a free ball? Go for it. My first guess is the scene outside the Korean club where they're discussing her previous time there. And she mentions T'Challa and them as a group once. But besides that, they're just talking about why she's bad news and the thing she did last time she came. She's speaking.

Because it's Nakia talking to the Korean woman, right? Yeah. Because she does have a name. She's given a name. Sophia, I think it is. Yeah, that's one of my contenders is it for passing. This is a table in Caitlyn's. I can't see it, but I'm guessing.

You're not wrong. It's a flow chart. And I think it's either right before that or right after that. Okoye's wearing the wig. She's like, I can't wait to get this ridiculous thing off my head. And Nakia's like, oh, it looks nice. Just whip it back and forth. And then Okoye's wearing the wig. She's like, I can't wait to get this ridiculous thing off my head. And Nakia's like, oh, it looks nice. Just whip it back and forth. And then Okoye's like, disgrace.

Which I think is a dig at Willow Smith. But it does pass the Bechdel test. Because they're talking about her wig. And then there's a scene toward the end in the big battle where Nakia and Shuri kind of meet up. And one of them's like, are you alright? And the other one's like, yeah, I'm okay. You? Yes. Let's go. That passes.

A lot of these other ones, though, I think they're talking about, because there's like a scene where Nakia and the queen, the queen's like, when they have the herb that they stole from the garden right before it gets burned, she's like, you have to be the one to take this because if we give it to M'Bakuaku he's going to create an even bigger monster potentially and she's like no i'm a spy without an army i don't stand a chance so that like kind of passes

at the very very end of that conversation i think but up until i mean what about the scene where makia comes to okoye and she asked her to revolt and she says before that she's like you're a spy who comes and goes as you leave and then uh she's like who do you serve and then she's like i serve my country and then okoye goes well i serve the throne no matter who sits up there right so she doesn't necessarily right say a. She's saying it's the throne, which I also thought was badass because she was like, oh, fuck T'Challa.

Right. Fuck N'Jadaka. Right. Who sits there. That's who I serve. Yeah. They start out being like, oh, let's overthrow Killmonger.

And they're like, no. And then they're like, but I love T'Challa. Yeah, it's the love part. But other than that, I think the combo flies. Yeah. And that conversation ends being, I think Nak convo flies. Yeah, and that conversation ends

being, I think Nakia's like, I love my country, and then Akoi's like, then you serve your country, and she's like, I save my country. Yeah. That passes. Ugh, ugh. So many, like, good lines in this movie, like, oh! What you're seeing is literally 30 combined years

of MFAs, okay? Because black actors who show up can't MFAs, okay? Because black actors who show up can't just be basic, okay? You need a fucking Juilliard degree to throw a spear. You know what I'm saying? Like, everybody there is like, oh, the acting was so good. I was like, because these bitches have been fucking, you know, doing theater for 45 years. They all got MFAs.

You know what I mean? It's like, none of them were found on YouTube. So, you're getting extra level shit. Yeah. Alright, let's rate the movie on our nipple scale. Yeah. So we've got a zero to five nipple scale rating specifically based on its portrayal of women. Put your nips on the table.

Time to do it. I think I'm giving it a five nipple rating. The fact that you see women just kicking ass the whole time, having agency, having desires, having skills, they're all women of color. We rarely see this on screen, where strong black women get to just kick ass, at least in mainstream Hollywood movies.

This movie is a triumph for women. This movie, I hope, will be just like a cultural landmark for years to come. I'm so glad this movie exists. I hope that everyone sees it millions of times. Caitlin, do you like this movie? I think that women are represented so well in this movie. I was speaking to this earlier.

Not every single movie has to have a woman protagonist, but of the movies that do have a male protagonist, I think it's important still, obviously, to do justice to its female characters, and this movie does an excellent job of that. I'm giving it five nipples. Nakia, Okoye, and Shuri all get one. So does Angela Bassett.

And my final nipple goes to... I think I want to give it to M'Baku. Yes. Because he was like all geared up to be, like he was sort of established as like kind of the most toxic in his masculinity of all the male characters. And then he like came around and we were like, great.

He's a good guy. He's also very handsome. I'm going to go four and a half just because I'm a little bitch. She was born in 1992. She is. Go on. I'm going to go four and a half. There are a few little things with this movie.

I wasn't crazy about the surprise kiss. I wish that the queen character had been given a little more depth a little more things to do but i mean obviously everything i i agree with what you're saying this is it's so rare to see a movie where uh women are represented not only as capable but respected by the men who surround them and really working on equal footing the entire time they have romantic lives but they're not identified by their romantic lives it's just it's great there's i don't i don't have that much to add i really liked it uh i'm excited to see the director's cut to see what like more

there was that we didn't get to see because there's like little moments where it's like yeah i would love to see these two women talk more these or even these two characters um i would have loved to see like a softer side of okoye and i'm i i feel like that probably exists somewhere we just haven't seen it so i'm gonna get four and a half i'm giving two to shuri because i just i just love her i love that little baby genius i'm giving two to mbaku because he's my crush and we must give thanks to our crushes. And I'll give the last half to Okoye. Yeah. Great.

Five nips, baby. Literally it all for me comes down to that moment when Okoye is staring at Wakabi and he's like, would you really kill me? And she's like, for Wakanda. Done. I will kill a man for my country. I will kill my love, right?

The person, she's like i have bigger dreams or i am tied to more than you and i think you don't see that it's i think especially superhero movies it's all kind of like you know the idea that you employ your powers you do whatever for love right it's always like to get this person to save this person you know you killed my parents and i have to avenge them it's's a love thing. And this was so much, you know, this movie was about the bigger, it was about country. It was about nationality, home,

spirit, those bigger things. And the men kind of came second to that, you know, even in the conversations about T'Challa, mostly they're about him as King, as ruler of this nation, not as man I love,

you know? Right. So you kind of, again, it's like, he's a symbol, you know, in a lot of ways he's

the symbol and the women are like the people grappling with the symbol, if that makes sense. Five nips, baby. Five hard nips. We give them two. Alright. Three, go to Okoye. Hell yeah. Two, go to Nakia.

Nice. Perfect. That's it. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and drop five cocoa butter moisturized mix. You know, the super chocolate areola. Yeah, same for me, where it's like, not only does it pass the Bechdel, but yeah, you do see women be like, men don't matter. And I think what really drives it home for me is like, without the women in this movie, they couldn't have won. They could not have won. And I feel like a lot of action movies that have women, you can take the woman out and they're either no longer a burden or like it would be a little harder, but they'd be fine. But the movie would literally stop without those women. It took Nakia's foresight to like, let me get one of these herbs.

I might need this. It took them like going up to M'Baku in the cold. You know, you know, Angela Bassett don't do well in the cold. Those dreads were holding in all that winter. And, you know, and what was M'Baku going to do? Just have T'Challa on ice? You just got a cold nigga just in your house forever. Like, what was Mbaka gonna do just have T'Challa on ice you just got a cold nigga

just in your house forever like what was the plan he had no plan he had no plan he just he's like do I tell them

he's here I don't know he's like I'm gonna just wait till the dust settle and I'll figure out what to do with this icy ass

dude right here so like you needed those women for it to be success and for like even without Killmonger Black Panther would not be who he is without Shuri's tech. Tech, yeah.

It is built around. And her tech is a real pinnacle of the movie. You see it used. You see it in the sneakers. You see it used with the balls that are thrown off. You see her knock him out with his own suit yeah like she plays with him she fucking rose like bitch i run this town she's like and like the first words out of shuri's mouth is teaching her older brother about tech

where she's like just because it works doesn't mean we can't make it better uh so yeah just lots of women in charge so i'm definitely giving two to Shuri, two to Okoye, and I guess one to Nikita. You know, I want to give her two, but I only have one to spare. You can give this movie six nipples if you want. Alright, six nipples. Six cocoa butter nipples.

Six purple areolas. Oh my god, thank you. This has been so much fun. Thank you so much for being here naomi where can people find you online is there anything find me on twitter at blacktrust come to couples therapy the second saturday of the month at nerd melt yay i can't believe you got that that handle i know you gotta come in early before i even tweeted anything i was like just give it to me yeah that's why i'm joining all these other sites. I don't think Vero is going to be anything, but I need to take Ify now.

Because Ify is being squat on, and I can't get anyone to give it to me. Speaking of which, you can catch me at Ify Wadiwe, which is I-F-Y-N-W-A-D-I-W-E, on the Twitter and Instagram. Right now it's just a lot of Black Panther content. Perfect. Perfect. on the Twitter and Instagram. Right now it's just a lot of Black Panther content. Yeah, right. Perfect. Perfect. You might want to see that cool Sterling K. Brown picture

that we've been talking about. I'm at UCB every second Friday at 10.30, UCB Sunset with white women. We have a show called Your Token Friend where we interview a person of color about being a token in a white space, and then we do improv off of it. And then every first Saturday

we have me, Brody Reed, and Binium have a show called Deepin at Echoes on Peek Up. Nice. Excellent. You can follow us at Bechtelcast on Twitter and Facebook. Can't follow me on Twitter. Sorry. Being oppressed by the Olympics committee.

We'll talk about it. You can subscribe to our Patreon. It's $5 a month and you get two bonus episodes of the Bechdel cast. You can buy our merch online. We've got buttons and pins and they're cute as hell. Yeah. So buy those. And get real fuzzy hairy nipple stickers.

If you can believe our lowest seller, people don't want the pictures I drew of hairy nipples. Buy our freaking nipple buttons, guys. It's mean. Ugh, rude. Anyway, thanks for listening and Wakanda forever! Wakanda forever! Wakanda forever! Go ahead.

Oh, I'm sorry. Wakanda forever. Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. Bye! Bye! Go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry. We're kind of free. Oh, my God. I'm sorry. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks.

She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas.

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