The Bechdel Cast - Bodies Bodies Bodies with Korama Danquah

Episode Date: October 29, 2026

On this episode, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Korama Danquah hunker down in a house during a storm and discuss Bodies Bodies Bodies (2022)! Follow Korama on social media at @koramadrama    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Wait, Caitlin?

Yeah, Jamie. Do you really not listen to my podcast? No, I do, and I like it. I'm not hate listening to it. like the other people are saying. What we do is we bring on one of our funniest friends and we have a chat. Sounds awesome. Sounds awesome.

Okay, podcasters down. Podcasters down in this one. Maybe one of the first, but certainly not the last, of horror movies that are trying to get us to hate ourselves. But it won't work because here we are. Welcome to the Bexelcast. Whether you like it or not, my name is Jamie Laughness. My name is Caitlin Durante. say this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using

the Bechtel test as a jumping off point. So it's a lot more than just hanging out with your smartest and funniest friend, although we do that too, such as today. It's true. It's true. The Caitlin, what is the Bechdel test for crying out loud? It is a medium metric created by friend of the show, Alison Bechdel. There are many different versions of it. The one that we use is, do two characters of a marginalized gender have names, do they speak to each other, and is their conversation about something other than a man? And we also like it when it's narratively relevant dialogue and not just like throw away nothing dialogue.

It's true. And today we are covering a movie that is one that we've been getting requests for since kind of the moment it came out and we've shown restraint and I'm glad we did because this movie is aging in a very interesting way, I think. Even though it's but four years old, we are covering Bodies, Bodies, Bodies, 2022. And we have, as we've been doing a lot this year, bringing back our all-time favorite guests for, is this her fourth? The fifth? Is it the fifth?

Wow, a lot of people hit, and this is where we always promise you a jacket, and then it just never happens to come in the mail. Never materializes. Someday, you know, there will come a day. But, oh my gosh, coming on for her fifth appearance. Let's get our hilarious friend that we podcast with into the mix. Our funniest and smartest friend. Yes. She's a writer and actor and you know her from our episodes on us.

Get Out. Cheetah Girls and Holes. It's Karamadankwa. Hi. Welcome back. Welcome back. I can't believe I'm your funniest and smartest friend. Yes.

It's true. It's true. I love hearing guests past appearances because it either like really coerce to a theme or it's truly all over the map. It's thrilling. Yeah, for this, for for your past movies, it's three horror movies, two of them directed by the same director, and then two movies for children. I love children's films and I love scary movies. I think being a child is scary. So, you know, it's true. It's a world that's not built for children. They are honestly one of the most marginalized groups in society right now, but people don't want to talk about that. But anyway,

it's true. Well, I was like, I guess that today is not this. This isn't quite the movie to talk about it, but it is worth talking about, and especially every time we're talking about child stars, which we've been doing a lot this year. Just, we have to protect the children. And we also have to protect the Gen Z influencers. So let's talk about that. We must. They're very fragile. They're very breakable.

A protected class. This movie is so interesting. Okay. Okay. Yes. Karama, we're so excited to have you back to sort of unpack this one. And I guess, yeah, because it's been a little bit of time now, what is your history with Bodies, Bodies, Bodies?

So I saw Bodies, Bodies, bodies, bodies in theaters when it came out in 2022, at AMC Burbank 16, got lost in the parking lot afterwards. Usually when I get lost in the parking lot after a horror film, I'm scared that the killer is going to come after me. For reasons we'll get into later, wasn't scared this time. I didn't care for it. I left kind of disappointed. and that's the only time I had seen it prior to watching it again to discuss with you two.

And I actually liked it a lot more this time. So I think it is fine whining for me personally. It's still not a movie that I'm like, I want to watch this once a year. But I have a lot more appreciation for it, particularly from a writing standpoint. I think that it has a lot of load-bearing dialogue, especially early on. And I think that it's well-crafted. I don't know that it's my taste. Yeah. I hear you.

What about you too? I also saw it in theaters probably also at the AMC Burbank 16. Wow. Because that's where I see 90% of the movies I see in L.A. And I had a similar initial reaction as far as I'm not sure this is for me. I thought bits of it were funny. I think that it handled tension and suspense well. but it got to a point for me

where I was having trouble suspending my disbelief. I think as soon as the gun shows up, I'm like, I don't know about this. And I found most, if not all of the characters, pretty unlikable, which I think is probably the point, but that makes it difficult for me to then enjoy the movie.

So, yeah, I didn't love it. And then upon this rewatch, I don't know. I think I need the conversation we are about to have. I feel the same way. Yeah. Really unpack how I feel about it now. But yeah, that's where I'm at right now.

What about you, Jamie? Well, it's so important to have different experiences in the discussion because I actually saw this at City Walk when it came out. Oh, my gosh, Jamie. Yes. I thought I knew you. At least it's the valley. At least it's the valley.

I am generally a Burbank 16 girly. I've since, but I remember this movie came out during a heat wave and my friend, friend of the pod, Julie Claire, was visiting and we simply needed to be in air conditioning. And so that was how I came to bodies, bodies, bodies, full disclosure as I, which like at this point, it's like so many people in comedy came up with Rachel Senate or Iowa debris that it like bears saying. And that's like sort of why I'm like, eh, we can wait a couple of years. to cover this. I think that the performances in this movie are really good. I think I've sort of had like, or I don't know, I want to have the conversation because I could definitely be swung. But I was like kind of indifferent to this movie when it came out. That was fun. There was definitely air conditioning. I think that was my priority at the time. It's a fun summer thrillery kind of movie.

I didn't really think about it very much after that. But now that we've, we've actually covered this director's next movie, Holina Rhine, who is, I believe, We've covered Baby Girl on the pod, a movie I like much better that I think has a lot more to say. And yeah, I don't know. Revisiting this, I'm like, I think I like it a little less than when I first watched it. But I also, I don't know. This is a tricky kind of movie for me where I understand where it's coming from. I get that the whole cast is supposed to be unlikable to different degrees.

But this feels like kind of, I'm trying to think of what the like millennial version of this movie would be. But I do feel like every generation, there's like a couple of years of comedy movies that are trying to comment on a generation and not quite getting it right. And that is like a lot of what kind of was bumping me with this movie. You know, this isn't a Gen Z chat. However, I do feel like this movie has a very low opinion of all young people and trying to make it about class at the last minute. So that was kind of what I was struggling with, was it just, it felt like this was a movie that is like written and directed by women who are elder millennials to Gen X. And it does feel a little bit wave a fist in a cloud to me in moments. But I'm willing to be

swung. I like all, I like literally all of the performances. Leapace is a delight. 2022. It's so, it's so historically recent, but you're also like, oh, yeah, Maria Bacalova totally forgot about that moment. Feminist Borat, what was happening? I know, I was like, what do I know her from? Oh, the Borat sequel? But Borat, what's it called subsequent movie film? Yes, we did nominate feminist Borat for an Oscar, and we have to sit with that,

and that was in the recent past. Anyways, I just like this movie, I don't know, it feels like a, stepping stone that has led to, or maybe just preceded, much better Gen Z comedies that are made by people who have like a little more insight into being like internet natives and stuff. It was also, the story is by the writer who wrote Cat Person. So there's just like a lot going on here. There's a lot going on. She wrote a whole script and I read it actually. Oh, wow. Okay, prepared. I'm so excited to talk about it. I wanted you guys to give me an A and podcast guest.

Always. I mean, again, you are our smartest and funniest friend. Oh, true. What I found interesting, because before I read the script, I saw, oh, this is written by Kristen Rupennian who wrote Cat Person. That's weird. And I read that there was a killer in the original script. And I was like, oh, I have to see this.

This is curious. I'm very interested in how this is different. And we can talk about that a little bit later. Interesting. I have a lot to say. I'm on the edge of my because I also read there was originally a killer and you know I don't I I guess I need more information I do I the ending of this movie is interesting I remember when I first saw it it's like it's kind of a funny reveal and it also it kind of feels like the movie's saying fuck you yeah I felt like I was in Europe because I was wellmed like I just you know yeah you're like okay it's like I'm not it doesn't feel bad but but to watch Pete Davidson like literally die by his own sword. But, but yeah, I don't know.

I'm excited to talk about it. I will say this is my favorite Pete Davidson horror movie. It's not the only one that exists and it's not the only one that I've seen. Wait, what are the others? Oh, there's like a movie where he works in an old folks home and there's a bunch of like weird stuff happening and people are dying. It's called home, I think. I saw it in a scream unseen.

Oh, that's Burbank 16 behavior. That's wrong. Oh, my God. I never heard of this. It wasn't well received by many people, including me. He's in an upcoming movie just called Bitcoin. Don't know if it's pro or con. Related, he's also in a movie called Dumb Money.

And what is Bitcoin but Dumb Money? Oh, is that about GameSuff? Yes, that's the game. Yeah, the game stop. I think that the I-Tanya guy directed that, right? Oh, okay. I think so. I saw that in theaters, not at the AMC, Burbank 16, but rather the AMC Glendale Americana. Wow. So, yeah. Did you park at the Glendale Galleria and then cross the street? You bet your ass I did. Frugal. We like it. I'm not paying for parking. Everyone, like, everyone listening to the show is like, shut up. But that's why we are, that's why I'm like, are there sexual? That's why I'm like, are there sexual? of bodies, bodies, bodies that I'm saying come on to because I am the target of it. Unclear. Let's discuss it. But also, I don't know. The reveal that everyone is mean, shallow, vapid, and has no brain cells to rub together. It just, it's nihilistic in a way that I understand what they're going for, but I didn't love it. I know, because it's like, is this a takedown of

young rich people just like wealth and and the products of of wealth is it a take down of gen z is it a little bit of both i don't know because i'm like if you want to if you want to like comment on class and the like spoiled nature of most rich kids fine but it feels like they're specifically targeting gen z unfair way right like there are rich kids that are now rich kids that are adults who are a major part of the problem. And there's probably more to say about them than people in their house. You know what I mean? Just like for a storm party.

Right. Like institutionally. But anyway, there's stuff. I felt, yeah, there's definitely stuff. There's there, towards the end, it just felt like it was like really stuffing in the message in the last like 15 minutes or so in a way that I was like, I don't know if this is necessarily what I was getting from this movie up to. till up till now. I also just find the game confusing, the mechanics of bodies, bodies,

bodies. I'm like, you can't, I do not understand the rules. What is the game? It's a bad game. It's, do you remember the made up game from New Girl called True American? Yeah. It's like that. Where the rules make no sense. My friends and I played that once. Wait, what is it? The thing is, you don't care about the rules after the first round because you're drunk. So, wait, what, what is? I didn't watch, I didn't watch New Girl. It's truly a nonsensical game. I couldn't, I don't remember really anything about it. The floor is lava at a certain point. And you also have to make like a tower of beers and you have to say FDR, JFK. Like there's very little about it that is structurally rules based. Right. Interesting. Okay. Much like with bodies,

bodies, bodies where why are they slapping each other? So is that part of the game or is that a separate game? And is that about class? Because I don't think it was. Like it just, okay. I think I'm already, I'm like, I think this movie is like fun, but ultimately all over the place. There's also a movie that unfortunately written and directed by a man, I'm so sorry, but a movie that like when there's a game happening like this, one of my favorite parts of the movie is learning the rules of the game. That's always one of the most fun sequences. It's that's the whole soft franchise. Wow, Jamie loves rules. I love, no, I love to play a game.

Nerd. I love to play it. No, no, I'm kidding. I'm the exact same. way. I'm coming into my little tricycle and I'm saying how what are the rules I want to play what are the rules Billy I want to oh I chop my own head off got it got it got it because I'm poor right got it cool shrug I the movie I was thinking of and I'm very biased towards this movie because my friend is in it but it's what's inside did either of you see that no the only but I keep

I know is from Waitress the Musical. Because I'm a nerd in a different way. And you're right to say it. It's a movie that came out a couple years ago that has a similar setup where it's like old friends coming together in a nice house. Class is a big component. They haven't seen each other in a long time. But it becomes a body swap horror comedy. Which, so it goes in a different place.

I would highly recommend it. Oh, I have seen that. Yeah. David is the lead of. it. Oh my gosh. But one of the best parts is learning how the game works because then for the rest of the movie, you as the audience always know what's going on and you're always kind of two steps ahead of you're waiting for the characters to get to where you are and it's exciting and it's easier to be like, don't go in there. Whereas with bodies, bodies, bodies, I guess I was sort of like,

I guess you can go in there. I have no idea what's in there and I don't feel dread because I don't know how this game works. So I just feel like I was just like watching influencers crawl around in the dark and I was just like why the hell not? I don't know. I just like I didn't feel attachment to the characters because they were intentionally unlikable. But also it wasn't even like fun to watch them die because I didn't understand how the game worked and there didn't feel like an actual threat. Well, because they stopped playing the game almost immediately. And then I mean, I think, that the basic premise of a slasher movie where a bunch of people are killed and you have to figure out who the killer is and the twist is there is no killer is like pretty fun as just a general

premise but I feel like maybe the execution here I don't know I think they should have given the script to me for some notes I actually I was talking to my friends about this movie last night after we went and saw the re-release of Pan's Labyrinth. And one of my friends likened it to The Odyssey, he was like, oh, it's the Odyssey, which we thought was a joke because I had just talked about how I realized that one of my favorite childhood films was an adaptation of The Odyssey. The Pebble and the Penguin, nobody's ever heard of it. It's a musical. Martin Shorts in it. It's great. It's animated. If you ever want to watch it and talk about it here, would love, would love. Listeners, do you want that?

please jump in if you want it say it in the comments um but i was like oh yeah it's it's the odyssey and my friend was like oh you know body's bodies bodies is kind of the odyssey because it's like the sea people everybody keeps talking about the sea people but then we are the sea people because there's no killer they are the killers oh right we thought he was joking we're like oh you actually made a very salient point you're so smart oh my gosh god man you hate to see it you hate to see a man making a good point. It was his birthday, so we'll let him have it. Okay. Pam's Labyrinth is such a, oh, such a clutch birthday outing. Right. A thinker for your birthday. That does totally make sense. Right. Okay. See, now I'm like, now I'm back. This is tricky. Okay, let's take a quick break

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Here is the recap of Bodies, Bodies, Bodies. We meet a group of friends who are staying at a big, rich people house for a hurricane party. because a big storm is about to hit. I like this conceptually. I've never heard of this, but I like the idea. I've fundamentally done something similar to this, but it wasn't like on purpose. It was just that I was in college when Hurricane Sandy happened.

And I lived in a frat house and we were all like, let's just hang out at the house and watch Purple Rain. So kind of. That sounds so wholesome. I know. My version of that was when the whole. city of Boston was locked down because they were looking for the marathon bomber and everyone had to stay inside for a weekend.

And yeah, we're all there. We're all drinking and refreshing Reddit. What a time to be alive. What a time to be alive. Truly. So, yeah, they're gathering for a hurricane party. The friends are Sophie, played by Amanda Liss-Sdenberg and her new girlfriend, B, played by Maria Bacalova? Amanda Lestemberg, I feel like it is an interesting Roershack test of where you know them

best from. Are you thinking Amanda Lestunberg of the Hunger Games? Are you thinking of Amanda Lestanberg of the hate you give? Or are you thinking, as I was, Amanda Lestanberg of dear Evan Hansen? Because let's not forget they were in Evan Hanson. We've got to cover Evan Hanson on the pod. It's on the docket. I forgot they were in that. And they do stay. want you to forget. They stay involved in casting controversy in a way that I find fascinating. And I think there was some controversy, not in the casting with this one, but there was a review that was controversial about bodies, bodies, bodies. I remember that, yeah. But I feel like they're always kind of in a storm with everything that they're in. And right now, it's the children of blood and bone casting. I think that

they're in trouble for. Are they, they're getting, again? Yeah. God. head. Always, every day. Leave them alone. I remember all the horrible racist comments regarding their casting in hunger games. That's the big thing I remember. And then the issue with the hate you give is people were concerned that they were too light-skinned versus the person on the cover of the book, which actually I found out

because on my long-deceased podcast, Popcorn Book Club, we actually spoke to Angie Thomas who wrote The Hate You Give and she told us that Amanda was cast before they did the cover. Oh, okay. So I think that's really interesting. And regardless, it's like bullying a, you know, teenager. Right. Over a casting director. It's like, leave them out of it.

God, I didn't realize that there was, I haven't been following children of blood and bone because fantasy franchises stress me out. But I do remember now that you're saying this, the review and the discourse that the bodies, bodies, bodies, review inspired. Just let Amanda Lestunberg live their life, my God. Leave them alone. Okay, so Sophie and B arrive at the house, and Sophie introduces B to her friends for the first time

because it's Sophie's group of friends. The other friends are Jordan, played by Mahala, I'm not sure if I said that right. Alice, played by Rachel Senate, and the much older guy that she recently started dating, Greg, played by Lee Pace. There's David and Emma, who are a couple, played by Pete Davidson and Chase Sway Wonders. And the house they're in belongs to David's dad, which is like this, again, huge mansion. All of these people come from wealthy fans. families. Several of the friends seem not very thrilled to see Sophie because she apparently didn't let them

know she was coming. She had sort of fallen off the face of the earth and no one had heard from her in a while. So there's some tension around that. There's also B seeming very out of place and this friend group not really warming up to her. Then it starts raining. The hurricane begins. So they head inside. and as the night wears on, they're dancing, drinking, they're doing drugs. We get a sense of various dynamics between members of this friend group, where David, for example, is threatened by Greg and how handsome he is, and he's jealous of the cool party trick that Greg can do where he pops off the cork of a champagne bottle with a sword that belongs to David's dad.

Which is pretty cool to see. Which is pretty cool. It is, it's honestly a good. good trick. That's a nice thing to impress somebody at a party. I would be impressed. That is really impressive. I'd go home with them. I'm like, you know, maybe to Pete Davidson, you know, say what you will about his character, but, you know, maybe I would crash out in that scenario as well. Because you just start putting a position where you simply, there's, there's no coming back from that. I also love that Greg says, I just found this on the wall. And I'm like, it was on the wall.

That's a good joke. I feel Greg, Leapace really is so delightful in this movie. I feel like he uniquely knows what movie he's in. So yeah,

David is jealous of Greg. Meanwhile, Jordan and B are sort of vibing right in front of Sophie. So Sophie's like, what the fuck? Then Sophie suggests

they all play a game called Bodies, bodies, bodies. That's the name of the movie. Right. The game that we love. to play that we know the rules too. They, I don't, this is,

maybe I'm realizing I'm obsessed with rules, but I love a good, this is how you play the game sequence. And they spent like 15 seconds on it. And then they start slapping each other. I was like, I don't know this game. So the way they describe it, it seems similar to games like werewolf or mafia,

but bodies, bodies, bodies makes less sense. There are fewer moving parts and the moving parts that are they. don't track. So you're just like, huh? But basically, as they describe it, they all have to draw a scrap of paper. Whoever draws the paper with an X on it

is assigned to be the murderer, but only they know that they are the murderer. Then they turn off all the lights. The murderer has to sneak around and touch someone to signify that they have quote unquote killed that person who then has to lie. down and pretend to be dead. When this quote unquote dead body is discovered, you call out bodies,

bodies, bodies, and then everyone else comes running and they have to figure out who among them is the quote unquote murderer. Is this a Dutch thing? Is this a Dutch thing? Is Helena Ryan like everyone's going to know what this is? I- Well, Kristen Rupennian came up with it. Oh, right. Okay, so we don't even have Dutch plausible deniability. We don't know. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I I don't know why this drove me up a while on this viewing. I think, you know what it is? I just started watching The Traders. And so I'm very into like every rule of this game is so crucial.

And I love to watch the game be played. Have you seen the movie The Blackening? Yes. Yes. Yeah. I feel like you like that. It's all gameplay. I know.

Well, it's like that. They have a great gameplay sequence and you know what the rules are. And so you're just locked in. And the characters are. are mostly likable. And shout out to our blackening episode. We covered it a year or two ago. Wonderful.

Wonderful. So yeah, those are the rules of the game. The quote unquote dead body ends up being Greg. And everyone else convenes to discuss who they think the killer is. Things get pretty tense right off the bat. So Greg goes to bed. he's like, I don't want to be a part of this. And everyone is accusing David of being the murderer,

and he gets really agro and defensive about it, and then storms off. Then the power goes out. Maybe it was the storm. Maybe it was David turning off the power. They don't know, but they dispersed to look for the breaker box. And B finds David outside, his throat having just been slit. And it seems like someone actually killed him for realties.

And so everyone is freaking out. And no one has service to call 911. They try to leave in Sophie's car. But the car won't start because of Chekhov's. B accidentally left the light on the mirror earlier and it killed the battery. Sure. And there are for some reason no other cars there because their friend Max brought them in his car and then left the night before. And he was supposed to come back, but he hasn't

shown up yet. So no one knows where Max is. Also, he punched David prior to leaving. So there was conflict. Right. Yeah. So they head back to the house. And Jordan finds the sword from earlier, covered in blood. Then that seems to be the murder weapon. So they start being like, well, who killed David? Was it the elusive Max? Was it the elusive max? Was it? it Greg? Because Alice reveals that she has only known Greg for two weeks. So he's a wild card, more or less. So they go looking for him.

They find some weird shit in his luggage. And then they discover Greg in the like home gym slash basketball court that's just in this enormous house. The scene is kind of a mess, but it is my favorite scene in the movie. It's pretty fun. Leapace in the middle of. what is it the like light therapy mask yeah right you're like yeah that is chilling that is a chilling that is a chilling thing to see he's like a foot and a half taller than everyone he's so he's he's he's far too

big like right because it's like these like five young women trying to so basically what happens is they come at him with a butcher knife and a meat cleaver and at first he thinks that they're still playing the game and that they're fucking with him, but things escalate and he moves, he moves like he's about to attack one of them. He's got his knife pointed at Sophie, I think. And so B strikes and kills him with a kettlebell. And so now they have another body, body, body to deal with. Fun, fun that we do start by knocking off the two men in the house. It's like subversive. I'm listening. I like it. Yes. So then Sophie and Emma get into a huge argument, but then they apologize shortly after, and Sophie gives Emma some drugs. I have no idea what those drugs are because I'm too much of a square. But it's something to take the edge off, I think.

Van Xx? I don't know. Are we supposed to know? Are we supposed to be able to recognize drugs? I don't know. I was like, sometimes I'm just like, wow, I was not invited to enough parties in high school to, understand what's going on. There parties like still like big parties that happened between ages 15 and 25. I'm like, I'll have to take your word for it. Wasn't there. Was not there. So yeah, there's some kind of drug that Emma takes.

And a short time later, Alice finds Emma's body, body, body. It seems like she either fell down or maybe was pushed down the stairs and she died. but they have no idea what happened. They question who the killer was in the game, and if there's any correlation between what happened in the game and what's happening in real life. Rachel Sennett's character is really going on about this, but it makes absolutely no sense because she's like, yeah,

it's following the same pattern, and it's like, no, it's not. You stop playing the game before a pattern could be established. Right. I wish they, again, in the, Like, I, I, I just wish they'd kept playing the damn game. I know that they have no reason to, but it is like, we learned about the titular bodies, bodies, bodies, and then 15 minutes later, they're just kind of flailing around for the next hour. Yeah. If we have one note, it's more rules.

More bodies. I just want more bodies, bodies, bodies for crying out loud. The game, not like dead bodies. Not that, well, but one, and why not both? Well, why not both? Well, poor cana los dos. But, okay. So they're trying to figure out who the killer might be.

They start pointing fingers at B since they don't really know her either. And Sophie has only known her for six weeks. And they discover that she lied about where she went to college. So she is not trustworthy. And so Alice and Jordan kick B out of the house and into the hurricane that's raging outside. So B takes shelter in the car

where she finds a pair of underwear that do not belong to her or Sophie. So that's weird. And we do get a sniff test. She does sniff the underwear, yes. And also it matches a bra that she saw earlier. Yep, check off his bra. Oh, I missed that. Yeah.

So Jordan, when they were looking for what's his face, Greg, she was like, he's not in my bra. And it's like a yellow bra that matches. Okay, here is my other, here's another problem for me with this movie is that most of it takes place in the dark and there's only like flashlights lighting everything. So I didn't know what was happening over half the time. I could not see. I was like, who's doing what? Anyway, so B sneaks back into the house through a doggie door. And while she's doing that, she sees Jordan with a gun. So B comes in and accuses Jordan of being the killer of killing David and Emma. At first, Jordan denies having a gun, but then she starts waving it around.

And then she reveals that she and Sophie had sex in Sophie's car like a few days ago, hence the mysterious underwear that B found. But Sophie denies this. And then they're all like arguing and screaming about how they all secretly hate each other. Alice says something that really sets Jordan off. So Jordan shoots Alice in the leg. They all start scuffling and then Alice gets shot again. It kills her.

So now there's Alice's body, body, body. And then another one when B throws Jordan from the balcony while Jordan and Sophie are kind of like struggling and wrestling with each other. And in her dying breath, Jordan tells B, to check Sophie's texts for proof that Sophie cheated on B with Jordan. So B is like, hey Sophie, did you have sex with Jordan? And Sophie continues to deny it. So B like just runs away.

She like hides in the house until the sun comes up. Sophie finds her again and admits that she might have been responsible for Emma's death because she gave Emma those drugs and Emma, Emma probably was super high and tripped and fell down the stairs. And B is like, yeah, that's fine and everything, but did you cheat on me? And she wants to see Sophie's phone. So they start scuffling. They like fall in the pool and stuff and then like scramble back out.

B grabs a phone, but wait a minute, it's David's phone. And on it, they see a video of him trying to do the champagne bottle opening trick that Greg did at the beginning of the movie and David accidentally slices his own throat. So all of these people died slash killed each other because of a murder that never actually took place.

Because, yes, fragile masculinity was the killer all along, which is an idea I like in theory, maybe not as much in execution. Although I do, I will say that the video itself, the Pete Davidson, the Peter Davidson

performance of killing himself off with a sword by mistake is fun. I agree. I do. I will third that. I think that it's very fun. And then the movie ends with the elusive max, finally showing up,

seeing the chaos and all the body's bodies, bodies and being like, what happened? And as with every movie of the 2020s so far, it is inexplicably Connor O'Malley coming in for one scene at the very end of the movie. I still don't have a sense of who he is. I don't know this man. Sorry to this man. I like Connor a lot.

I think he's great. And if you have, I don't know, it's like if you date a certain kind of guy, you will be hearing about him. Sure. If you know, you know, and if you don't, that's fine. If you don't, you're free. Well, that's the movie. So let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss. Pride is like love.

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Yeah. Is there anywhere you'd like to start? Yeah. Greg isn't wet. Greg isn't wet when they come and confront him. And there's no way he could have killed David without getting wet. I don't understand why nobody thinks about that. His hair is dry.

He is bone dry. Right. And I just feel like that's a key component. And they're just so quick to jump on the outsiders. First Greg and when Greg is dead, then B. And they're like, well, we know you've killed somebody. She's like, I killed somebody to protect you. What are you talking about?

That is very women's wrongs. Women's wrongs abound in this one. And I just, I find it interesting that the like insiders are the first people to die. and the most insider person is David as it's his house. He's rich. He's white. He's cisgender. He's heterosexual.

He's able-bodied. He's American. He's a man. He is the majority. Like truly every majority you can be. The epitome of privilege. Yes. And he's the first person that dies.

And I think that it's interesting that also when Emma dies and she's, you know, this pretty actress, I don't think that she is fully white, but she could, I think, in some instances present as more white. She's high as a kite. People have been seeing her doing stuff all night, even if they didn't see the stuff that Sophie gave her. And she's at the bottom of stairs that are covered in blood. But the immediate question is, who is responsible for this?

And I was like, is it possible? Is it possible that she fell? I just, I think it's interesting the idea of when people like her and David die, somebody must be responsible. and there's no investigation beyond just like which of us did it. Meanwhile, there's a storm out. What is the probability that somebody is hiding in the storm coming to kill you guys for funsies?

That is a really good. I guess maybe this kind of gets at like, I feel like, I don't know, we'll figure out in real time like what, what it like isn't quite feeling right about this story. I do think that there is like, to your point, Kramer, there is, there are the insiders and the outsiders and they are treated differently. but there is still this like mob mentality that seems to form that I think in certain moments like just doesn't really make sense where it's just I don't know I mean the leap haste not being not being wet I think is a very funny like for for a movie that does seem to want to subvert

horror tropes there are some like fairly like clear things to subvert or like point out even in like a kind of scream kind of way that doesn't really happen. I feel like there's not always sort of like character having that like wait, can we take a second? Which I think normally in these like in these setups you see that. I don't know. I know and I feel like well I guess I don't really know what the intention of this movie is. if it wants us to think there is a mysterious killer on the loose for most of it, and we're wondering who it might be, is it one of the people that we have already gotten to know?

Is it a mysterious outside person who we don't know yet? Is it this max person who we haven't seen? Because it seems like the movie wants you to suspect certain people at certain times. If that's the case, I feel like there needs to be, there need to be more red herrings. Yes. More characters that we introduce that could be potential culprits.

The suspect, yeah, maybe that's like the reason that various people become suspects never quite scans to me, I guess. And to be clear, this is not like a feminism critique necessarily.

This is more of just like a movie screenwriting. It's a structural. It is trying to exist in a genre without actually taking in the, conventions of that genre. I mean, if it's a slasher film, somebody needs, a body needs to drop in the first couple of minutes. A body, body, body, body, body, body. And we don't get any body, bodies, bodies, bodies until fairly far into the film. Yeah, about 25, 30 minutes. Yeah, which, you know, end of first act, okay, fair. I will say, in the Christian Rupennian script, it was like page 46 of 91 when I

finally get a body, body, body. Tell us more about this. Tell us more about this script. I'm so curious. Yeah. So it is freely available online. If anybody is interested in checking it out, I just like Googled Kristen Rupinian, Bodies, Bodies, and I hope that I'm saying her name right. But it is at a cabin instead of a mansion, which I think is interesting.

But it's a cabin with a basement. So it's still very like rich people cabin. But it's a snowstorm that's happening. And they have an annual trip that they take for skiing. And it's this friend group. A lot of the names are different. B is still the same for some reason. And B is Korean in this script.

And there is one person who nobody knows, or not nobody knows, but he's the new friend in the group. And they establish at one point that they always have a new person that they bring. They call them the wild card. And they are playing Never Have I Ever in a Hot Tub. And they're like, never have I ever been arrested? And then they find out that David's been arrested. arrested before. And at the end of the game, the new guy whose name is either Scott or Matt, I can't remember because they're just two double T names. And I was like, I'm not going to know

who's who. I can't see him. Is that like theoretically who the who becomes the Lee Pace character? Yes. Yeah. That is, I would say, the Lee Pace sort of analog. So he puts his finger down at some point during Never Have I ever, but everybody's like, wait, when did you put your finger down? And he's like, oh, wouldn't you like to know or whatever? And so then they didn't. And so then they decide to play body's bodies. They play Kings Cup first. There's a lot of game in this, Jamie. You might love it. They want to play a game. But they don't explain. They don't explain Kings Cup at all. Okay. Another, you have to, and you have to explain the game. I really am like begging you both to just watch the introduction to the body swapping game and it's what's inside.

It's so satisfying. There's all these fun shows. I'm going to watch the movie. I'm excited. I'm excited about the game. You love the game. Yeah. So they play Kings Cup and then they play Bodies, bodies, bodies, they explain the game, they show somebody getting bored at the rules being explained. Okay. It was hilarious. Wouldn't be me, but. They're just smoking weed and explaining the game. And then they start playing the game.

They actually play the game. Two people die in game before we get into, like, craziness. And they fake, they fake get killed. Yes, they get fake killed. And they get into the mechanics and the, like, politics of who is the killer. And they're, like, accusing people. and there's a lot of logistics. And I was like, Kristen, we can cut some of this.

I'm so sorry. But it's like, if you were upstairs and you heard so-and-so and da-da-da-da-da, then it has to be David and whatever. So then the main character whose name, I truly cannot remember anybody's name. Ashley, I think her name's Ashley. She goes downstairs and she is like, wait, where did everybody go?

Because that's where all the dead people are supposed to be. Nobody's there. The door to outside is wide open. They're scared now. Maybe a drifter has come in what's going on. And then she's like, why is nobody coming when I'm calling bodies, bodies, bodies, because I found a body, body, body, body earlier. And the lights are all out.

So they have flashlights. And then they find their first dead body. But they find all the bodies in quick succession. And I will say, I read it this morning. And like I emailed you guys, I thought we were meeting an hour earlier than we actually were. So I was skimming a lot near the end because I was like, oh, my God, this is taking forever. But they find the bodies like back to back to back and they're stuffed in a closet.

Most of them are stuffed in a closet. Okay. And that's when they get freaked out. And then Matt or Scott, one of them, one of them's dead. One of them's new comes down the stairs. They're like, where have you been? He was like, oh, sorry, I passed out. I couldn't hear anything because he has been drinking and doing drugs all night.

And so he was like, I fell asleep. And they're like, you felt sleep? And he said, okay, I passed out. I was really high. sorry. And they're suspicious of him. He has the other guy's keys. And they're like, why do you have his keys? You must have killed him. And he says, no, he gave me his keys earlier to go on a beer run. You saw it happen. Don't you remember. But they get really scared and then they kill him. One of them kills him. I think it is Casey. Casey kills him. Then there's just the three women left,

like in the version we get. We kill all the men first. And one woman. Liz dies also. I'm just throwing names at you. But we now have B, Casey and Ashley left. These are our final girls. Sure. And one of them realizes, oh, we have to turn the lights back on. It's not the storm. Somebody cut a wire in the closet.

If we just reattach the wires, we'll be able to get service. And we can call on the landline to call 911. So Ashley goes in, leaves B outside to do that. and Casey and Ashley are inside and they start screaming while she's on the line with 911. So B runs back in with the phone and sees that Ashley has been stabbed by Casey. No, sorry, Casey has been stabbed by Ashley. And each one of them is accusing the other one. They're like, there is nobody else in the house because they got blocked in at one point also.

So they're like, oh, somebody else is in the house. It's not just us. There isn't somebody else in the house. Each of them is accusing the other one. And Ashley and B are dating. and she finds out that Ashley has been cheating on her with Liz, who's now deceased. And so she's like, I don't know if I can trust you. And so they decide we're just going to throw the knife under the couch and I'll just wait for the police because she's called 911.

And as they are waiting, B gets up really quickly or like turns around for a second. And then she sees that Casey has stabbed Ashley. And she's like, Casey, why are you doing this? And she's like, you guys have all been hanging out with my ex-boyfriend behind my that because her ex-boyfriend cheated on her and then was stalking her. So it's not like an unreasonable thing to be upset about. Not this level of upset. And she said that her boyfriend knew she would be there because it's an annual trip. And they've cut him out of the friend group in front of her. So they didn't invite him. They invited her and they've been pretending to

choose her according to the ex. She killed her ex, stuffed him under the porch, which she's like, I was going to blame it all on him, but it's been so long that he's probably frozen. So now I'm just kind of blame it on you. And she stabs B as the police are coming. And she's, and she pretends that she's in trouble, kind of like in Get Out where the girlfriend is on the phone.

And she's like, oh, no, I'm so scared. Help me. And she says that as the cops are outside the door, she's like, B, no, don't hurt me. And then like stabs B and slices her throat.

And she's like, I'm a white girl. They're going to believe me. And then the cops come in and they get dispatched. And they're like, oh, we hear that the 911 when dispatcher is still on the line and apparently somebody's lying. So then that's how they realize that Casey is the real murderer. And B, with her final breath, calls Casey a liar.

And that's the end of the movie. Okay. I think that this is, I think that the version we saw is stronger in a lot of ways. I agree. I agree. I mean, I'm curious, first of all, thank you for reading that whole script. Of course. It definitely does sound like, I don't know, there, there's elements.

that at least sound like address some of the things that I found like a little bit more frustrating about this movie but also it also kind of sounds like a mess. And you know, that's why there are multiple drafts of things. I'm fascinated the A24 bought this though

and this was A24's first spec script that they purchased because usually A24 was just distributing films that had already been made prior to 2022, I believe. And they were not producing their own stuff. they were a distribution company. But this is the first one that they ever bought. And I'm like, that, that?

Her? I'm so curious if it was just truly like one of those situations. And, you know, whatever, all due respect to Kristen Rapani. And I honestly, the cat person drama kind of entered and left to me. I don't have a great recall in exactly where we landed as a culture on cat person. I think we were kept person neutral by the end of it. Yeah, I'm just like, I just sort of wanted to be over. So that short story came out in 2017 and they bought the script in 2018.

So I'm guessing it's just like, oh, this is the writer of the moment. Let's see what she's got. And it happened to be bodies, bodies, bodies. And you know, good for her. Good for her. Because it is a good concept. And it's like a really hard concept to execute in a way that's fun and tense. I think that the reason I don't mind, I guess what I'll say?

I don't mind that the characters in this movie are not likable. I get that that is the point. But I think that if we are making all of the characters so unlikable, I need a little more, like I need a little more to grasp onto in terms of who are they to each other. We get so, because I'm thinking another, you know, a movie with a very, a different premise, but that also involves as a lot of people's like first kind of lower budget or like first break into a new country movie is is where in one. location and it's a group of friends coming back together after a long time. This is a premise

we see all the time. But I was thinking of companion, which for all of its faults, you do at least have enough of an idea of what the relationship of the couple going into the house is before you get there. And I feel like one of the big issues I have with this movie is that that Sophie and B, I don't think we have enough of what their relationship is before. before we throw B into the soup. And so that was like just from like a writing standpoint, I found it a little tricky because I was like, what is the problem in this relationship? Like, you know?

I think what the difference, the core difference for me in those two, and I do agree that companion is better at it, is that this is not the first time they've met these, the friend group and companion. So she's like, I'm nervous because I already think they hate me versus we don't really understand why B is nervous. We get Sophie saying, oh, Jordan's going to be obsessed with you. I don't know who Jordan is or why she'd be obsessed with B.

I don't know anything about B, except that she texts her mom and allegedly works at Game Hutt. And because there, I mean, it's interesting to know that B's character was originally Korean because it makes this whole friend group seem anti-Bulgarian

question mark. I was like, does this happen? Are we? Like, so I just, there was, there are a few things that just, I don't know. Yeah. Crom, that's a great point. It's like there, there's just like, the shared history was a little bit confusing to me, both with the couple going in and with the friend group once you get there.

So I just feel like I didn't have a lot to hold on to in terms of like, I'm not rooting for the couple, really, because it seems like they seem like fine people. people but like you know clearly maybe don't belong together but like you're I don't know I just like I couldn't find a character to be like yay except except honestly because it's like it's so you're kind of going performance to performance um we're like I don't know like the performances are good but the characters weren't like written to like cohere in a way that made sense to me it seems like we are meant to be primarily empathizing with B because we are seeing most of the story unfold

through her point of view. There are some like omniscient scenes, but a lot of it we are with B experiencing things through her point of view. And compared to the other characters, she, to me at least, is definitely the most likable because everyone else is so vapid.

I like Alice. I was, I was going to say, like, Rachel's so fun to watch. That is like, for sure. Hard, yeah. I don't want to hang out with Alice, but from the perspective of watching it, I'm like, yeah, she's fun for a night. From one podcaster to another. Like a party.

A fellow podcaster. And as Alice points out, a podcast takes a lot of work. You have to organize the guest. You have to do a Google calendar. You have to build a following. It takes a long fucking time. And we've been working at it for a while. And that's so true.

I'm proud of her. I'm proud of her. We're proud of her and her podcast about hanging out with your funniest and smartest friend. Look, that's like 90% of podcasts. Right. Yeah. So anyway, we're experiencing things through B's point of view, which is fine. But I think then we also, yeah, we don't get enough insight into the rest of the

characters or even her. Because I almost feel like, so attention is called to the fact that she is talking to her, like texting with her mom a lot. I almost thought that that was going to be revealed to be a lie and that she was actually talking to someone else and who's the big mystery of who she's actually talking to. But then all of that just, to quote a star is born, falls by the wayside. So I'm like, well, then why did you even set that up? It feels like there are a lot of threads that just kind of go nowhere.

Because there's also the thing with, it's implied that the reason Sophie shows up to this gathering that she was invited to but never confirmed that she was coming to, never let anyone know that she was bringing her new girlfriend, is that Sophie wants to convince David to talk to her parents to get her trust back. because we learned that Sophie has dealt with addiction issues and went to rehab and apparently got cut off by her parents. And she's trying to get cut on. And that issue is both like very relevant to the story, but also brought up in a way that felt kind of selective to like when the plot needed addiction to be a plot point. If it came one.

It felt poorly handled. And I feel also just on this thread, I feel like race was also poorly handled in this quite, because the only time that anybody ever mentions race is when she's like, oh, so when the black girl does cocaine, it's a problem. But when the white people do cocaine, it's fine. And I'm like, I do think they all have a problem, to be fair.

Sure. And also there, but like, there's also a difference between addiction and people who are doing cocaine, and they shouldn't be necessarily doing cocaine all the time. time, but like addiction is a very specific thing. And it seems like she had a problem. They describe her as like peeing on the New York subway. Right.

Which is not behavior that we're seeing from anybody else in this. So I think that like there's this idea of her playing a black card and these, these like identity politics. And she also says feelings are facts, which is I think the most insane line I've ever heard. And it just kind of, that scene for me was the core of what my issue with this movie is. it seems like a farce about Gen Z as opposed to having real Gen Z characters who have full interior lives.

Like they definitely feel like cardboard cut out Gen Z, which is fine if that's the thing that you're trying to say, but I don't think that it says that well either. No, it's like ultimately you have this movie from what I mean, it was it was written and directed by white women in their 40s. And I feel like you can, and we love when, are making movies. However, this movie's trying to bite off a lot and comments on a lot in a very like satirical way that I feel like maybe the team they assembled was not really like speaking to your point grandma like everything is acknowledged but like the way that it's brought up feels

kind of unnatural. Yeah. Yeah. I would be curious like what the actors make of that too. Obviously they can't really say it when they're promoting the movie but I'd be curious to like hear the retrospective on this. it does feel in a way that's like hard to quantify, but it feels like someone writing young people instead of something that feels authentic, which can be, which can work anyways and can be like campy and fun. And I think in some,

it's like when this movie is trying to be serious, I'm kind of like, well, that's not the movie you set up for me. And I like don't really, I don't really buy it starting to be serious now. There's a lot of stuff in that sequence. we get talk about she that B is taking care of her mother who they specifically state has borderline

which is I thought kind of out of pocket out of pocket and very unspecific in a way that I don't think really helps with the representation of borderline and doesn't really seem to have much of an understanding of like well what do you what do you mean by that you know race is brought up one time they're like I don't know there there there's like certain moments where we're supposed to be taking these issues seriously and then there's certain moments where it's brought up as like oh these girls are too woke for their own good and like kind of will oscillate between those ideas within the same scene totally yeah I was struggling with that as well because I mean so much of the dialogue is characters talking about or like saying phrases they're like weaponizing

therapy talk. Right. It's like you're gaslighting me. You're toxic. You trigger me. You're silencing me. And depending on the context, like you said, Jamie, like those are serious issues if someone is being gaslit. If someone is triggering someone else needlessly or deliberately or whatever. But a lot of times in the movie, when characters say those things, it's the punchline of the joke. Or it's almost presented as like a satirical take down of like Gen Z speak. Again, the cardboard cut out of it all is interesting. And I do also just again on race, I was fascinated by the fact that the only black people

in this movie were both biracial. And also Chase Sweet Wonders, I believe, is biracial. And I think that there's something interesting to be commented on there in terms of privilege and people of color in spaces of privilege and like who is invited to these spaces and proximity to whiteness in these spaces that maybe is not for this movie,

but is something that I was thinking about. I don't think that the movie would have handled it well based on what we've got if they did try to tackle it. But that was just something I was extremely conscious of. And I do think it's interesting that the actresses, the actors, I literally earlier was talking about how I don't like the word actress and then I just said it.

It's top of mind. It's top of mind. The actors who play these two characters one of them is a biracial person with a white mom and a black dad. The other person is a biracial actor with a, which one did I just say? They have different configurations of parentage. One has a white dad, one has a white mom. And there's a lot of discourse in terms of like black spaces about like quote unquote white mom biracials

and how their proximity to whiteness in the way that they behave is different because child rearing is primarily a task taken on by the mother. So I think that that could have. have been an interesting thing to tackle, but I also, again, I don't know that these are the people to do it. But this movie. So the writer director. Probably not.

It's it. I mean, it feels like there is like a lot with regard to race that is like, that it would have been possible to talk about in this movie that. I mean, thinking somebody has a gun and then it being a cell phone in her pocket. Right. But then it's like, oh, well, but it makes sense to be, it's like, well, like, I don't think B maybe gets enough smoke for that.

It's interesting, like, I don't know. And like you're saying Karama, like, I don't think that this, this creative team would have been the team to get somewhere, but it felt interesting words, like everything is on the table, but race specifically felt like the issue that everyone was like,

it felt very like post-racial, the way that everyone was talking to each other. But it wasn't like that on any other issue. Like, well, Like it's very not intersectional in the fact that like it kind of paints them all as everybody's rich. Right. And that means that the race stuff doesn't matter because they're all rich. And there's the famous scene where Jordan's being told by Alice, your parents, like you're obsessed with your rags to riches narrative, but your parents are upper middle class.

Right. And Jordan is like, they're not. And she's very attached to this idea of being sort of below the rest of them in a way because I know. think that it allows her not to examine the ways that she's complicit or I don't know in the like trappings of wealth but you know and she's the one that understands because um what's her face Sophie is like oh no David David's dad wouldn't have a gun his politics check out and then Jordan's like he's dad is rich rich people have guns and she's the one that understands wealth in that way so I think she wants to distance herself from it.

But, you know, she's kind of like picking it thing saying, well, yeah, my parents are university professors, but it's public. So that's different. Right. This movie felt to me like an example of a movie that is written and directed by white people that acknowledges that their cast should be diverse. So the casting is diverse, but then they didn't go back to the script. and make adjustments that they might have needed to make based on the actors who they cast to play whichever character.

And that's why it feels to me like race is, for the most part, ignored. B being Korean in the other script also is never acknowledged beyond a descriptor. I don't think they ever say anything. No microaggressions, no macroaggressions. Just they mentioned she's Korean and then I don't think it ever comes up again. But it's like we're also told that this group, I mean, and also this like team's conception of how they're satirizing Gen Z in general would be hyper aware of these things. And almost like it's made, there's one joke about it with Alice's character where she sort of

does the, you know, the like flailing white girl thing that, you know, every white girl is done. Of like, no, I'm an ally. I totally get it. I understand. But again, it's like it's sort of just that one time. It just feels like checking a box of acknowledging that this is something that happens versus having it meaningfully work into the story. Right.

Yeah. And all of that. I mean, everything we just talked about sort of is isolated to one scene. Right. Toward the end. This all comes up in one scene towards the end. And I didn't have time to watch this twice or prepare today. But like I think for a lot of the stuff that pays off at the end,

I think like sort of with the exception of we know that like Sophie's friends are having different experiences with her returning to the group because of their experiences with her when she was using. Yeah. That is set up. I didn't feel particularly like satisfied with how that is like handled, especially at the end where that is, you know, like Sophie has like relapsed, which is very serious. serious. And that is like stated she she both relapses and sees something very very true. She sees

Emma fall down the stairs and feels guilty because like of all these things. And B's responses, let me see your phone. And so like that at the end is like acknowledged and like that that should be huge. And then they just kind of move right. I don't know. Like it's just at the end with what I think where the movie is like trying to say this is what it's about, I still sort of was like, I don't know. I, yeah, I don't know. We simply don't know. Can we talk about Heda Gabbler for a second? Let's do it. I watched this movie, obviously, when it came out, and then I watched baby girl. I had a screener, so I watched it shortly after it came out. Okay. And both of them have Heda Gabbler. And when I rewatched this one, I was like, wait a second. Hold on because in baby girl, Antonio Banderas is directing a production

of Hedda Gabbler. I totally forgot that. Oh, my God. And Helena Ryan, Rain, I don't know how I pronounce Dutch. This nice director lady is obsessed with Heda Gabbler. And I went looking because I was like, has anyone talked about this? And she actually did talk about it on KCRW briefly. Wow. So, um, They do a segment called The Treatment, I believe it's called. And I just, can I read really quickly from it? Please. Okay. So for her treat, I'm going to say Ryan.

I decided that's where I'm going. For her treat, Ryan reflects on her appreciation for Heda Gabler, the iconic play from 1891 by Norwegian playwright Henrik Ibsen. She first encountered the work during her time at theater school in Maastricht and found the role to be a rare opportunity to showcase her full range as an actress. playing Hedda offered the chance for her to dig into a character's full emotional depth, unlike some of the more limiting roles she had taken on before. Heda's struggles being stuck in an unhappy marriage while having the ability to shape her own fate,

delved into the character's inner turmoil and existential despair. Four Rhyme, stepping into Hedda's shoes, was not only a deeply fulfilling experience as an actress, but also turned out to be a big inspiration for creating Baby Girl. And then later, it says, she says, that with a lot of other roles, she felt very imprisoned and felt very limited and she felt that the man had the better role. She always wanted to play Hamlet, but she always had to be Ophelia. And she talks a little bit about a doll's house by Henrik Ibsen, which is also referenced in Baby Girl when the daughter does the Tarantella.

And I noticed that too. And I felt like none of the reviews for Baby Girl were talking about Ibsen. And I was like, there's so much Ibsen in this. And I feel like we're not talking about it. But maybe I'm just a little theater major. But you have to be the change. But I thought it was interesting that Hedah Gabbler comes up in both of these movies and that she talks so much about the fact that it was a three-dimensional role for her, but doesn't really

it doesn't really feel like that's implemented either. And I know she didn't write this one. Yeah. But, and she did write and direct Baby Girl. And I will say that Baby Girl does feel like Nicole Kidman's character is more three-dimensional. But I, even in the performances, which were good, I didn't feel like I was seeing three-dimensional moments. Like, you just talked to Jamie about the scene where B is like, show me your phone after

she's told this traumatic thing. And I feel like there could be an expression of like, oh, I see that you're struggling with this, but also through that I need to get satisfaction for the thing that I need to know. Like, there was no push pull in the realization of that. And I think it's interesting that she's obsessed with Hada Gabbler. And that's like a thing that keeps coming up. And I just had to talk about it. That is an incredible.

I'm so, I totally forgot that that head of gabbler is so directly like name-checked and in the plot of baby girl. And like you're saying, like, it does seem to be there with a little more purpose maybe than it does here. Yes. Because in this, because again, with bodies, bodies, bodies, I feel like this is maybe, and maybe this is like a thing that in the horror and horror comedy genre is just kind of being worked out or especially around 2022. is like, is this a horror movie that you can like glean societal messaging from? Or is this, is this a movie about society being told through horror? And I feel like this movie can't quite decide. Is it like a satirical look at Gen Z?

Or is it like, are we supposed to leave being like, wow, that really made me think? It kind of goes back and forth, which is why that scene towards the end where everyone's, where it's like they're the you know you it's basically setting you up for there is no killer this group of people depending on how you look at it are either like not smart enough to live or are too traumatized to live again you're like which i don't really know which it is like too self-absorbed like i don't but going but going back to emma yeah like emma playing had a gabber if that it doesn't seem to like connect to her character at all outside of like she is an actress or does it?

I mean, there's one little thing where they have their argument and part of it is that Emma's like, no, I loved David. And Sophie says, no, you didn't. You liked having a boyfriend and you were miserable. And I guess headache abler is somebody who is trapped in a marriage that she doesn't want to be in. So there is that slight analog. But I do think overall, she barely has a character. frankly. I think she probably has the least character of anybody in this, which is saying something

because, like, David dies very quickly. So quickly. And still does sort of get the last word of the movie, but, you know, many such cases. I do like that twist, like that they're, I don't know, like a slasher with no killer is a fun idea. Speaking of no killer, do we know who the killer was in the game in the movie? Did we ever find out? We do find that out. Oh, okay. I forgot.

The scene where... It was Jordan. It's in that big info dump. Yeah. B comes back into the house after they kicked her out into the hurricane. And she has seen Jordan with a gun and says empty her pockets. And Jordan empties her pockets. And she has the little paper with the X on it.

And so everyone's like, you're the killer. And she's like, yeah, in the game. What are you talking about? I do think it's so messed up that Sophie lets them kick B out of the house into a storm. Like lock her in a room. There's 85 rooms in this house. Yeah.

Yeah. I did write down visibility of underarm hair on a woman. Yes, liked that. That's true. That's true. Jordan has underarm hair. I liked the line where Alice is defending Greg when they think that he might be the killer.

And she says, he's a Libra Moon. That counts for a lot. And you know what? It does count for a lot. She was right. He wasn't the killer. He wasn't the killer. She knew his heart.

When Jordan has the gun and B sees her holding the gun, I said, oh, no, Chekhov has entered the chat. Yeah. First, if's a novice. Which, like, again, that's the part. that I'm like, what? Jordan wielding the gun and shooting Alice. I was like, there, there were smarter ways. If everyone, if people need to keep dying and bodies, bodies, bodies need to keep piling up, there were just cleverer ways to do it. I feel like there just needed to be a little bit more backstory that gets established as far as beef between characters. And they do attempt

to do that. But yeah, I feel like it just doesn't pay off in satisfying. ways. Maybe this is like I'm like talking my way around this over the course of this like hour, but like there was like information about this friend group being withheld from us that I don't think needed to be. Like why like I guess that there's certain like reveals that are like, oh, that actually would have been really helpful to know an hour ago to like get me invested in this character. Like there's so many reveals about the friend group at the end that like it just it felt like maybe if that information had been paced a little bit differently, but sometimes by the time you find out something like empathetic about a character, they're either already dead or like they're about to die. So yeah, it gets back to the like, I guess B on paper is the easiest character to root for, but she's not the most fun to watch. Like so it's just, it's it's it's all over the place. I found them all to become less likable as the story went on to, which, I feel like if you have an unlikable character,

you kind of have to make them slightly more likable. Yeah. Right. Like they can say unlikable, but give them a quick moment of redemption. Yeah. Save the cat. Mm-hmm.

For example. Or just more like, I mean, with these like big hangout movies, you do, again, like you get a moment where everyone is kind of having fun together. But it's mostly just like,

Sophie, like surveilling B is the, focus of the one scene where they're all technically bonding and like having a good time but there's no dialogue i think it's like mostly a charlie x-the-x song is playing and sophy is like locking in on like i am not okay with this with how b is acting and and it those i don't know like would have been fun to have you know like those little friendship dynamics that these actors i'm sure you know would have been wonderful at just like being like oh these two are close for this for you or you know, whatever, those little things in these kind of hangout movies that just felt like we

kind of rushed through to get to the game that we don't play. That they barely play. Yeah. Yeah. Worth noting that several of the characters are queer because we have Sophie and B are obviously in a relationship. Sophie and Jordan formerly dated, I think is what's implied. And at the very least, they had sex in Sophie's car a few days prior.

Yeah, all three of our final girls are queer. And then there's also the scene where Emma kisses, well, surprise kisses Sophie, when Sophie is apologizing to her after she had said some of the cruelest things a person can say to another person. And Sophie's like, what the hell? Like, what are you doing? why are you kissing me? And I also thought this was weird because I'm like, Emma's like, isn't this what you wanted?

I don't know if we are to understand that Emma is also queer or if she is just kissing Sophie for reasons. She's an enigma. Who knows anything about Emma? We know nothing. She was he had a, she was head of. And we know that and that's for damn sure. Apparently she wasn't that good too.

I and they just like RIP RIP God these threats yeah I mean obviously all these people hate each other they're like she's horrible in her play her podcast sucks ass she is normal style rich unlike she says like they're it's just I guess it's like at the end of the day I just feel like this movie is like not my vibe but I like unlikable characters but like this one doesn't really I don't know what I think of the movie would have worked better if it was more clearly a movie about class and commenting on class and commenting on the Uber rich and leaned away from making fun of Gen Z. And yeah, just focused more on the class aspect of it all. I also feel like there was so much like class commentary film coming out in that era. we had like the menu triangle of sadness yeah all the same here we had glass onion and if they were

gonna make fun of gen z just do that no class or just do class no gen z I feel like it does both poorly and congratulations if you enjoy this film I love that for you yeah no judgment I just and I liked it more this time so you know it grows on you I guess for people like me but it just feels kind of very in between in a way that doesn't feel like it's committing to anything. Yeah. Yeah. I laughed at a lot of the jokes, but yeah, it doesn't, the movie doesn't know what its intentions are slash maybe doesn't really have clear ones.

And it's not like, yeah, and it's not like a director, you know, that is not of a generation can't make a smart, incisive movie about a generation they're not a part of. But this movie did, I did sort of leave this viewing being like, man, I'm glad that Gen Z directors are like kind of working now like shout out backgrounds yeah exactly i think as an actor your acting coaches and your acting teachers always tell you that if you have a character you cannot hate your character right and i feel that the directors and writers do not like jenzy and are annoyed by them and i think you have to love something about them and that love has to come through and i didn't see any love i could even take all of the stuff that's in this movie

if I saw additional love of Gen Z in some way. And like, you know, I'm not Gen Z. I love many people who are Gen Z. Robert Pattinson, for one, famously Gen Z. He's always saying this. What? That's not right. No, no, no.

He said in a Vanity Fair lie detector test thing, he was like, I'm Gen Z. Doesn't say I'm lying. No, exactly. So he's convinced he's Gen Z. He believes it in his heart. But I do think that like, yeah, there are flaws with every generation and there are triumphs that every generation has over the generation before and the generation that follows. And I feel like we don't see any of that in commentary on Gen Z. It feels like a send up without, like it's like how roasts are not fun when it's just random famous people.

They were fun when it was comedians who knew each other and who are like, we're going to hang out and get a drink after the show. Right. Who are doing that. we all actually like each other. Right. But like, why is Anne Coulter at your roast? We really lost the plot on the one. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess maybe that is getting a little closer to, like, I mean, I think we're all, we're all millennials. But the, like, it kind of brought me, gave me war flashbacks of like avocado toast commentary. Yeah. You know, and in a way that like, you can tell that the actors care about the characters they're portraying, but, but when you can't. feel it in the writing, there's only so much the actors can do.

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Does anyone have anything else they'd like to say about bodies times three? Justice for Greg.

Just, oh, justice for Greg. Lee Pace. We talked about him recently on our episode on the fall and how great he is. He was a vet. He liked puppies. That was, I think that was my favorite joke. That was Sylvie. That was.

Oh, right. They think he's like a war veteran and he's actually a veterinarian's assistant. Yeah. I was laughing. This movie does have good jokes. I'll give it that. Yeah. It does pass the Bechtel test.

Handily. Quite a bit. Yes, very well. Yes. When Alice is talking to the other young women about her podcast, passes with flying colors. Easily. Yeah.

As far as our nipple scale, though, where we rate the movie on a scale of zero, to five nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I mean, there are things to appreciate about it, such as the men die immediately and the women stay living, at least a few of them by the end. Queer women specifically, yes. Dock it a little bit because Max is also alive at the end. So the left one man alive has shaved. That's true.

Fair. Because it is so all over the place when it comes to things like race. and class and it doesn't really know what to say or have anything. Seems like it's wanting to say things, wanting to comment on these things, but simultaneously saying that, but like making fun of people who do want to. Yeah, right.

Thoughtfully examine class and race and things like that. There it is. Okay. There it is. Okay. I just felt an enormous sense of relief. It's just like sometimes, I think especially in like comedy writing,

it's like if you're going to be cringe you have to own it you have to embody it you cannot in the same breath say and anyone who says this who isn't me is an insincere loser like you're just like no you have you have to accept you know right yeah so yeah we got to the core of the issue with this movie as such I will give it two and a half nipples it feels like a split down the middle for me I don't know what do you guys think I was going to say I was going to say two nipples, one nipple for keeping the women alive, and one nipple for visible armpit hair. I'm going to go two and a half. I feel, maybe I'm just like because it was written and directed by women, I want to, I want to like enjoy it maybe more than I did. But I think that there are

just, I don't know, there's like, right now I feel like we're kind of entering a renaissance of like Gen Z comedies in general. And we'll keep seeing. seeing that. So this is like this was a start that's kind of a blip. We need to see Gen Z films by Gen Z is the solution. I mean, and we are as a thing. But I also will say, let women make mediocre movies. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Like I love movies about like women misbehaving. That's not the issue. Yeah, it's just that the movie hates its characters. Yeah. Right. Like it's just like it's there's an open contempt for literally every person on screen that it's just like that didn't feel like there was a reason that was clear to me anyways Helena Rain Ryan I don't know where we fell there but

went on to make a better movie immediately so you know it's it's nice it's like not every not every movie is going to be an instant classic as like to your point crama I think like the way that we talk about or the way the culture talks about marginalized filmmakers is like you have to be Ryan Cougler, no misses allowed. And, you know, for the majority of directors, that's not going to be the case. For most white male directors, that is certainly not the case. So, you know, there's a leveling of the playing field here. This movie is fine.

It's fine. It's two and a half nipples for me. I'm going to give, I don't know, I'm going to give one to Amanda Lstenberg. I'm going to give one, two. to Helena Rine's next film Baby Girl. And I will give the last, the half nipple to the sword. The sword. The sword.

I really want to learn that party trick. I think it's called sabering. Like, it's like a whole thing. I could be lying. We'll never know because we are done. There's no way to find out. There's no way. Well, Karama, thank you so much for joining us for a fifth time.

Congratulations. Come back for a six. of course. Yes, I'm going to go on to another hand. It's reverse. Never have I ever. Yes. Tell us where people can follow your work, follow you on social media, etc. People can follow me on social media, threads, Instagram, TikTok, at Karama, Drama, K-O-R-A-D-R-A-M-A. Hell yeah. You can follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast. You can subscribe to our Patreon, aka Matri-on. That's the best way to support the show. show at patreon.com slash bectalcast. And also you can support the show by seeing us at upcoming live shows.

Yes. We will be continuing our 10-year anniversary tour in different regions. We may have also already announced the next leg by the time this comes out. If not, stay tuned. Go to link tree slash bectalcast for more information, for ticket links, etc. And with that, should we all get together for a hurricane party? No, we shouldn't. Yes, I'll bring the games.

Yes, wait, what are the rules? Let's play a game. I want to play a game. Bye. Bye. The Bechtelcast is a production of IHeartMedia, hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus. And me, Caitlin Durante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtenen.

And edited by Caitlin Durante, ever heard of them? That's me. And our logo and merch and all of our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus, ever heard of her? Oh my God. And our theme song, by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan. With vocals by Catherine Voskrasinski. Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree slash Bechtelcast.

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