The Bechdel Cast - Booksmart with Vanessa Chester

Episode Date: June 13, 2019

Jamie and Caitlin are trying to get to special guest Vanessa Chester's very cool graduation party to talk about Booksmart! Featuring a contribution from Leigh Holmes Foster and Ellie Brigida from Lez Hang Out podcast! (@lezhangoutpod)(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @VanessaChester on Twitter.  While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture, like mariachis, delicious cuisine, and even lucha libre. Join us for the new podcast, Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts.

I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me? A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology, swaps of different meds, but by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane, what we can do about it, and why we should care. Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them.

Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin' vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. My name is Caitlin Durante. My name is Jamie Loftus. And we're book smart. The two of us. We're really smart at books. See, I was struggling to think of a way to start this episode as well.

And that was probably exactly what i would have said okay well and we know how to read and we're and we also have a master's degree for crying out loud yeah yeah you you gotta read a lot to do that yeah uh i don't i don't think i would have really i'm like did i read in college really at all and i just like really went deep into debt and got very depressed. You don't need to read to know how to do that. Anyways, today's episode is brought to you by reading. So this is the Bechdel cast. If you're a new listener, this is our podcast where we talk about the way that women are

portrayed in popular movies. We use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. where we talk about the way that women are portrayed in popular movies. We use the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. But what is the Bechdel test? What? I mean, I need someone with a master's degree to tell me. Okay. I'm dog shit.

I can't do anything. I'm happy to tell you that the Bechdel test is a media test developed by cartoonist Alison Bechdel that requires that, let's's say a movie that you're looking at has two named female identifying characters they must be in the movie together they must speak to each other and their conversation cannot be about a man yes you think it would be not that hard but a lot of movies don't do it don Don't pass it. Can we do a quick example? Yes. Okay. Hey, Caitlin. What's up, Jamie? I am still so, like, struck by the animated knockoff of Titanic we watched last night.

Me too. The legend of Titanic. I had never heard of it. It fucked me up. We watched it. There's a giant octopus. Oh, but it's a male-identifying octopus. Oh, fuck. It fucked me up. We watched it. There's a giant octopus. Oh, but it's a male-identifying octopus. Oh, fuck. I fucked it up.

But his name is Tentacles, and he holds the Titanic together, and everyone in the Titanic lives. We have to do a bonus episode on the legend of the Titanic. It's at least as good as Booksmart. It's at least as good as Booksmart. If not a little better, I would say. We watched it right after. We double-featured Booksmart. It's at least as good as Booksmart. If not a little better, I would say. We watched it right after. We double featured Booksmart and The Legend of Titanic. And Booksmart, for all of its merits, does not have a gigantic octopus that rescues people.

Right. And that's one of its fatal flaws. And that's really what the discourse has been focused around for this movie. The conversation came close to passing the Bechdel test until I brought up the octopus. I mean, and the octopus is really phallic, too. It's like a baby dog head with eight dicks just shooting out of it. It's so strong and throbby. It's gross.

Anyway. I think we should move away from this conversation and introduce our guest. How do I follow that? I don't know how you're going to do it. Impossible act to follow. You're going to do a great job. I have two arms. I think I'm already failing.

The voice you just heard, she's an amazing human. She's an actor, and you might know her from such movies as a little princess jurassic park lost world and harriet the spy it's vanessa chester thank you for having me thank you for saying i'm an amazing human being like what you don't even know me that's so nice i just have a feeling thank you strong intuition let's check back in with that at the end of the episode and see if you still feel that way. And then if not, I mean, we can always blame it on a friend of the show,

Miles Gray, because he brought you into our lives. Oh my gosh. We can always take him out of this world. Let's take him down. That's true. We're talking about Booksmart today. We're talking about Booksmart, a new release. Yes. Popular listener request. And yeah, I'm psyched to talk about it.art, a new release. Yes. Popular listener request.

And yeah, I'm psyched to talk about it. So Vanessa, what did you think of the movie? I really enjoyed it. Like I saw a preview and I was like, I want to see this. Like I kind of was that girl in high school who like studied a lot and got great grades. And I mean, I partied still, but like I could have partied far more yeah I can't go back and do that and I made up for it in college um I felt like the casting was brilliant like I liked every single character I like the personalities like they all had such great chemistry that and also I feel like at the beginning it was like oh I know these

people I know who this person was in high school. And by the end you were like, oh, everyone's a blooming onion. We have many layers. Like we all realize that, but it also makes you kind of think of like that person in high school that you may have judged that you now see on Facebook and you're like, whoa. Or like what did I hear that I just accepted to be them, you know? We all had that. Yeah. A lot of traumatic high school projects

coming out at the moment there were yeah so many specific characters that you're like oh i would have prejudged that person in high school for sure or like i was or i hung out with them or i like i defended that person yeah my best friend growing up was a jared Oh, really? Yeah, Peter was a bit of a Jared. But without all the money, so he was just loud. That's amazing. He was so sweet. He was so sweet. I was very much like the gals,

Amy and Molly, were like, I didn't party at all in high school. I really cared about my grades and studying and all that stuff. If you're listening to the show for the first time, Caitlin and I historically canonically suck. We are very boring and lame. I'm like trying to think I'm like, I was really good because I was afraid of my mom and I knew like, but then it was one of those things where like, I'm not necessarily lazy, but the lazy

aspect of my personality really shines through to find efficiency and things and so I was that person who was like if I pay attention in this 50 minute period and take bomb notes I won't have to fucking study and I'll pass all the tests like and that was basically the way I got through college too I was resourceful yeah I was like I've got a photographic memory just look write, write, draw. Like, ask all the questions and be done. Yeah. And then the minute I got into college, I was like, I just ditched for like half of senior year. Oh, yeah.

By the time I was in college, I discovered Vladimir Vodka. And it was. Wow. Wow. Vladimir Vodka. All bets were off. Advanced. We did Mr.

We had Mr. Boston. Oh, right. Mr. Vodka. You could get it in gallon size and make it last the whole semester. The fake ID at Food for Less when I was like, pop off on me, and everyone's like, but that's basically killing half of

us. And I was like, it's chill. It's chill, guys. Thanos, your friends. Food for Less is the only place that accepts this ID. Because I'm 5'3", and it says I'm 5'8". So let's just do it. Guys, do you want jungle juice or not right right um let's just dive into the the recap yeah no one has much of a history with this movie i've seen it three times now wow yeah except for you i was a little i mean it was it was weird i i just saw this movie there the like discussion around this movie was kind of bizarre when it came out of like it underperformed at the box office and

the reasons people thought that was sort of was all over the place and it was just like there was a lot of like interesting weird discussion around this movie when it came out to the point where i was like i don't know, when Twitter discussions get so in the weeds, I'm just like, I'm tired and I'm less likely to see the movie. Yeah, like I'm exhausted just from reading these reviews. I don't even know I have the capacity to watch the actual movie you reviewed. Too many takes. There were so many takes on this movie.

Too many takes. But I mean, twitter takes are just like they're exhausting so i was almost like put off from seeing this movie which i realize now was not fair because i quite enjoyed it yeah i like it a lot likewise i'll tell the story of the movie the story of the book so it's the last day of high school for Amy and Molly. Beanie Feldstein and... Caitlin Dever. Caitlin Dever, who my favorite fun fact about her is that her dad was the voice of Barney.

Stop. Right? True. I would just have a shirt that said that. So I wouldn't have to like find a way to get it in the conversation. It's incredible that I had to seek that information out. Why isn't she just talking about it? Tell people.

Don't promote this movie you're in. Your father is Barney the Dinosaur. Anyways, that's all I know. They are best friends. And they are two overachiever, goody-two-shoes types. But like fun. They do the robot before school. Yeah, they But like fun. They do their robot before school. Yeah, they're like not.

They have fun with each other. They're not Reese Witherspoon in election. Yeah. Right, right, right. Yeah, they're like what we wanted. Like, oh, you have a personality, but you're smart. Yeah.

Yes. Like type A, but not like terminally type A. They have fun with each other, but like not with other people outside of their duo. Relatable. Because they wanted to study hard so they could get into good colleges.

And then we meet some of their classmates. There's Nick, who is the VP of the class because Molly is the class president. There's like Theo and Tanner. They're like these like two burnout guys. There's this girl that they call AAA. There is this girl, Ryan, who Amy has a crush on. The skater girl. The skater girl.

So cute. Oh my God, with the curly hair. So cute. Yeah. And then there's Jared, who's this like rich tryhard kid. And his rich friend, Gigi, who who is played by Carrie Fisher's daughter Billy Lord. I was IMDb-ing everyone

today. I loved her. Nick is Cuba Gooding Jr.'s son. I didn't know that. Having famous parents pays off baby. It gets you into movies. I can't even be mad about it.

So we meet all these classmates of theirs, and then Amy and Molly find out that Nick is having a party at his aunt's house that night. Then Molly overhears some of her classmates talking about her and saying that she's not fun, that she loves school too much, and that she has a butter personality.

Just a funny joke. Yeah, I was like, ooh, that one hurts far more. Yeah. Far more. You're like, oh. High school students are just, even though this is like a writer, are mean.

It's cutting, yeah. And then Molly finds out that all of these classmates who she thinks are like idiot burnouts and who like partied a lot and had fun also got into the good colleges so she has like a conniption and it's like you know what amy we gotta go to nick's party we gotta prove to these people that we can be fun too and that we you know we don't want to have missed out on like fun high school party experience this is like i feel like it's such catharsis for

students who were like that because that student almost never actually goes to the party on the last day like i definitely never i just went to the afternoon barbecues when people graduated and was like i'd like a cheeseburger and then i'd leave by 4 p.m i was i was feeling it for them i was like yeah you go to a party or you'll regret it for the rest of your life. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah.

So then they get ready for the party, but they don't know the address to Nick's aunt's house and no one is answering their calls. So then Molly's like, oh, I'll try Jared. They're like, try hard rich kid. Jared. Jared. Heart of gold. Icon. I love him.

Jared, who is listening to a sheryl sandberg on tape lean in listen corporate feminism a little bit misguided but you know he's 17 years old he doesn't know he's making an effort and we appreciate it so sweet so they call him and he comes to pick them up assuming that he knows where the party is and he takes them to a party but it's not it's the twilight zone sick it's like his lonely boat party i know but like what would you do for one of those jared t-shirts everything right i hope they're selling that merch i bet you it's on etsy i bet you it's on etsy i would like one the jared party made me so sad. I'm like, if this were a darker movie, Jared would be like, he would like kill someone. Like he has infinite resources.

I watch a lot of true crime and I 100% see that storyline happening. Yeah. I'm like, it's a good thing he does have a heart of gold because this could have like them bailing on his party could have been their death sentence. The only other person there at his graduation party is Gigi. Like them bailing on his party could have been their death sentence. Yeah. The only other person there at his graduation party is Gigi. She just, what a great character. So much fun.

Yeah. She just appears. You never see her enter a room. Love it. Jared's all like, Molly, you're awesome. I like you. And she's like, I gotta go.

So she and Amy hightail it out of there. Also Gigi's swan dives off of the boat. She does a lot of dives into water. Like there's one that I was like,

I hope that was a stunt double. That one looked like it hurt. Right. Yeah. You know which one. You know it. I was like, her face,

she's not doing a movie for like a month after that. I was like, that one hurt. Oh, that's great. So Molly still wants to go to Nick's party, but Amy's like, we just went to a party. We don't need to go to another one. And then Molly calls Malala, which is like their code for, hey, friend, you got to do whatever I want, whatever I say, no questions asked, like full support. So Amy's like, okay.

And then they hear back from their classmate, Alan, with the address one of the drama kids yes i love the drama kid him and george incredible yes love them uh so they call a lift and the driver is their principal making you know some commentary on you know how educators are not paid enough. This is like this. There is like, I like it every time, but there is a repeating motif in this movie where it's just like, and they get in a car and a very famous comedian is driving the car. That happens like four different times.

They're like, wait, Jason Sudeikis? Jessica Williams? Mike O'Brien. Like how? It's every single time. It's almost as if this was scripted. Right. But it's fun

like those scenes are this movie compared a lot to Superbad which I don't think is exactly what I thought after. But the car scenes

are like when I got the strongest vibe. When like Bill Hader would drive. Yeah. Well I was thinking about the scene where they like end

up this super bad but like oh when McLovin tries to get the liquor that and it was like that one creepy dude who's like you definitely have something in your basement I don't want to know what yes I don't yeah I forgot I feel like that was what gave me that deja vu moment

too yeah there's I mean the comparisons I mean like it doesn't bother me at all. Like, it's just a. Yeah. I think it's worth discussing later on, too. But, yeah. And I think that Jared is, like, kind of a vastly improved McLovin-type character. Yeah.

That makes sense. Because we, like, learn about him. We know about him. McLovin, where is he? Yeah. Where did he go? I don't know. I don't know.

So they're in the cab they're in the lift they watch some porn in the car so that because amy's all like i don't know how to do anything with girls and molly's like teacher here is there porn oh no and then they finally get to the party except that that this party is Alan and George's murder mystery dinner theater party. I mean, drama. That incredible monologue that, wait, who is George? Who gives the monologue that's like, my husband died. Oh, that's Alan. That is so funny.

I love that part so much. And then he's like, you don't have to do it every single time. I was like, I hope someone else to do it every single time. I was sighing. I was like, I hope someone else comes in and he does it again. I loved the codependent drama club friendship. That was beautiful. That really resonated with me. So Gigi is also somehow there at this party.

And she's like, wow, I'm surprised you guys aren't feeling those drugs yet. Because she had fed them drugged strawberries. Because that has to happen in this movie yes it does so they start tripping they hallucinate that they're barbie dolls that was weird things yes yeah we'll talk about this yeah this is like one of the things that i was like like okay i could have done without it i don't know. It felt wedged in. But anyway. Movie equals drug scene.

I know. It's like you got to experiment if you go out. Yeah. It's like so over it. They also get sober so quickly, which is another. Thank you. That was my next note. I was like, I'm not saying anyone's dabbled, but that seemed like it was way too short

of a time. Like they sat down at dinner and their trip was over. I was like. Right. Yeah. They're like, it's the next scene. We're sober. We have to.

We're Barbies, so it's done now. Yeah. So then they leave George's party. Amy's like, okay, we went to two parties.

Let's go home. And Molly's like, no, I still want to go to Nick's party. And then we find out that it's because Molly has a crush on Nick.

Which Gigi announces from like the rafters. 30 yards away. Our girl. And amy's like okay let's freaking go to nick's party but they still don't know the address and then they so they like do all this homework to figure it out they see a video from the party where there's like this big stack of pizzas from lido's pizza so they go there and try to like rob the pizza delivery guy for the information. And Mike O'Brien's like, you could be killed.

Yeah. He's like, don't trust people. But he gives them the address. Later revealed that he's a murderer. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, when he described what could possibly happen, it's like, you've done that before.

90 times. or he's done it right yeah you've got 10 000 hours of experience in this and that's scary yeah you've malcolm gladwell yeah this into a career 10 000 hours of murder but they still can't get to the party because amy left her phone in his car and and Molly's phone is almost dead from all the porn that they streamed. Molly makes a call with her last bit of juice. She's like, come pick us up. And then who shows up but another famous comedian, Jessica

Williams, who's their teacher, Miss Fine. And she takes them to Nick's party. There's a... yeah. Man, Jessica Williams deserved a better storyline. We could take a photo and add that to the like yes please yeah oh no vanessa is writing on her hand even though there is a notepad in front of her i just look as someone who's like super

protective and like oh my god that's a really dope pen should i swipe it what about karma but notebooks you know things like that i'm like i don't want to fuck up someone's whole thing and like rip out a page. And I'm like, my hand works. Feel free to use the notepad. But this is kind of a thing now. We definitely are going to put that on our Instagram. It is like a conspiracy map. I'm just like, and this led to this led to this.

It's going to become like a huge meme of understanding books smartly. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, we'll get into the Jessica Williams character. Yes, for sure. But just in general. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, we'll get into the Jessica Williams character. Yes, for sure. But just in general. Yeah.

Deserve better. So they get to the party finally. Everyone is there. Molly and Nick are flirting. Amy and Ryan are maybe flirting. Amy's still not really sure what's happening there or if Ryan even likes girls. And then Amy sees Ryan and Nick kissing.

So she goes up to Molly and she's like, we have to go. We should go. Without telling Molly what she saw. So then they get in a fight and Molly's like, I have to do all the heavy lifting of our friendship. And Amy's like, well, you're mean. And then Amy reveals that she's taking a gap year and staying in Africa for the whole year that's the super bad moment too right didn't you have a moment like that too

that's another big super bad parallel and that was one of the moments where I was just like oh yeah everyone in teen movies are fucking rich as hell she's like well I'm taking a gap year I'm like good for you and I'm going to Yale I want to hear the kid who's like I didn't get a Cal Grant approved you know like something that's like, I didn't get a Cal Grant approved. You know, like, something that's relatable.

Like, I don't have health insurance. Yeah. Classic teen movie. So then they fight and they storm off. And Amy goes into the bathroom. And Hope, another one of their classmates, is in there. And they have, like, sort of like this antagonistic back and forth. And then Amy kisses kisses her we'll talk

about that and then they start hooking up meanwhile jared and molly are talking and like maybe vibing a little bit i don't know and then amy cut back to the bathroom amy accidentally fingers Hope's butthole. Oh, that was so tough. I mean, and this is also major Judd Apatow movie vibes of like, I accidentally fingered a butt and then I barfed. You're just like, what? To be fair, she barfs because she drinks cigarettes. Cigarettes. Butts.

Yeah. But barfing on someone at a party is... Which also happens in Superbad. Yeah, yeah. The Superbad. Which also happens in Superbad. Yeah. Yeah. The Superbad comparisons are warranted in many ways. Yes. But they're also not in many ways.

And we'll talk about it. So Amy, like, rushes out of there. And then Molly finally sees Ryan and Nick kissing. So she's like, oh, that's why Amy, you know, wanted us to leave. She was trying to protect me. So she, like, goes to try to find Amy. But right then the cops show up to bust up the party. And Molly gets out. The girl that they call Triple A picks her up.

Meanwhile, Amy, she's like, I'm going to create a diversion for the cops. And then we cut to the next morning. We find out that she's been arrested. She's so many questions behind that. In jail, has a phone call, pane of glass. Yes. Whole bit. I'm like, I'm just fine to suspend my disbelief on that.

Yeah, you kind of have to. Yeah. And then Molly goes to bail her out using the information that they have on the pizza delivery dude, who we find out is a wanted criminal. Yeah. And then graduation's about to happen everyone's waiting for them and they drive like crazy to get there molly gives her valedictorian speech they graduate molly takes amy to the airport and then they say goodbye and there's crying but then they're like hang on we've got time to get pancakes and And they're like, yeah, let's get some fucking pancakes. And a movie.

Smash to black. The end. Yeah, I wasn't expecting the pancake thing. I was like all in my feelings and my duvet crying. Like, I have best friends too. And then I was like, pancakes? Like, I love pancakes. I mean, relatable.

That was a pivot. How many times have I, you know, gone to Denny's with a friend and eaten pancakes? I mean, it happens time and time again. So that's the story. Let's take a quick break and then we will be right back. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the

culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit,

where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels, into something everyone in the South loves, the biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? The Boone County rebels will stay the Boone County rebels with the image of the biscuits. It's right here in black and white in print. They lying. An individual that came to the school saying that God sent him to talk to me about the mascot switch. As a leader, you choose hills that you want to die on. Why would we want to be the losing team?

I just take all the other stuff out of it. Segregation academies. When civil rights said that we need to integrate public schools, these charter schools were exempt from that. Bigger than a flag or mascot. You have to be ready for serious backlash. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It was December 2019 when the story blew up. In Green Bay, Wisconsin, former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila caught up in a bizarre situation. KGB explaining what he believes led to the arrest of his friends at a children's Christmas play. A family man, former NFL player, devout Christian, now cut off from his family and connected to a strange arrest. I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. I got swept up in Kabir's journey, but this was only the beginning in a story about faith and football, the search for meaning away from the gridiron and the consequences for everyone involved. You mix homesteading with guns and church and a little bit of the spice of conspiracy theories that we liked.

Voila! You got straight away. I felt like I was living in North Korea, but worse, if that's possible. Listen to Spiraled on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts hey we're back we're back yay um so real quick at the top before we get into the characters we've already alluded to this movie's been compared a lot to super bad which what i like about this like i understand totally why they're like oh it's like super bad but like with girls female super bad it's which is which is definitely a little reductive there are as we already pointed out a lot of like story points that are like that basically happens in super

bad but it also you know avoids a lot of like the kind of bad mid to late aughts teen movie tropes sure that uh super bad does but i mean it's like beanie feldstein is literally jonah hill's little sister i understand why the comparisons are being made and she she had a quote she did a hollywood reporter interview she said uh book smart does what super bad did which is celebrate a female friendship within a huge comedy and it's really a relationship movie as much as it is an adventure high school comedy. And I was like, that quiz is a little weird because Superbad in no way celebrates female friendship. Does she mean just it celebrates a friendship between two people?

Yeah, just like a high school friendship between dorks. Which is true. Yeah. I mean, also both movies center around an end of the year senior in high school party but and like you were saying vanessa like the big deception at the end of like i'm actually doing this yeah yeah i'm like i now i want to sit down and like watch super bad again because like book smart is so like fresh but i can't i mean i own the super bad dvd i was like i'll watch this once a year because it's so funny we were all there and then I stopped um yeah I mean we did other movies came out

right we did a matron bonus episode on Superbad so go back and listen if you're a matron but I had so much fun listening to you guys yesterday like bluetooth through the apartment just like cleaning up like holy shit they should have talked about the clovers more like oh my that's the episode I watched bring it on you guys if you didn't listen do it it's really great plug within a plug within a plug one of the huge differences between Superbad and

Booksmart is that the messaging put forth is like wildly different yeah for sure Superbad is like steeped in toxic masculinity and like the characters motivations for that movie is like wildly different yeah yeah for sure super bad is like steeped in toxic masculinity and like the character's motivations for that movie is like they're trying to get alcohol to take to the party to feed it to the girls who they like so that they will have lowered inhibition so that they will have sex with the boys like all the things that people lie about doing today they're like this is the plot of the movie yeah and like And like that, it's like a funny, cute objective.

And it's like, it's so rooted. It's so like rooted in that like nerd entitlement trope that we come up a lot of like, and it's like in John Hughes movies all the time, but like the whole young man who has been sexually rejected a lot or like doesn't fit in, who then has to quote unquote resort to like physically abusing, lying to and tricking women. Yeah. It's like I've got to use sorcery in order to get what I want rather than just like be me.

Right. You know, like spells, vodka, like lies, whatever, you know. Spells, vodka and lies is a movie I would see. I mean, 13 going on 30, we have Mark Ruffalo being a warlock and using a wishing dust. Exactly. He has to do a whole complicated warlock subplot. But anyway, yeah. So are there similar story beats in both movies?

Yes. Are they tonally similar? Sure. But there's improvements. Yes. A vast improvement. A substance. What I think is cool is it's weird because I feel like any comparisons are sort of framed as like, it's the same movie, which it isn't.

And it's also just like I feel like indicates because it's been like 12 years, I think, since Superbad came out. Yeah, 07. And, you know, like the world has shifted at least a little. And it's cool to see like kind of a similar framework. It almost feels like a science experiment like can we make a better version of this general formula and they did yes yeah i like that and that's that on super bad sick so there's a lot to talk about with this movie my hand is full it is the palm is ready so i mean largely it is a movie celebrating female friendship we don't get

that in movies nearly enough nope so that's and like cool complicated female friendships because there's sometimes i feel like kind of mary sue-ish female friendships where it's like they get along all the time they love each other and they respect each other which is great but it's like not really reflective or like they're exactly the same. That's why they get like, women who are different don't get along. And it's like, no, they're not made from the same mold, which is why it's so beautiful that they are so obsessed with each other. That's how me and my friends are. We're so different, but we're same, same, same, not the same.

Right. And it's like you see, I like that you see them in conflict with each other. You see where they disagree on stuff. You can see like one thinking that the other is like acting kind of dumb. Just like all this stuff that is actual friendship. It's like when they get dressed and are wearing the same thing

and are not upset about it. I literally was like, wow. Also, I was like, where do I find the jumpsuit? Because the waistline is amazing. Oh my gosh, it's so good. And the fanny pack. I want that fanny pack. Send me a photo, I was like, where do I find the jumpsuit? Because the waistline is amazing. Oh, gosh, it's so good. And the fanny pack. I want that fanny pack. Send me a photo.

I'll find it. Literally, there's nothing I enjoy more than finding an accessory or a vintage something online. I got you, girl. Thank you so much. Get in my fanny pack. Clear my schedule. I got to find a fanny pack. They're so different because we know so much about them because the movie took care to develop both of these characters enough that we understand their idiosyncrasies and all that stuff.

So very well done, I thought. Yeah, I thought the friendship is great and complicated and good. And I loved it. Indeed. There's a lot of similarly good sort of just messaging that the movie puts forth, you know, advocating for body positivity, sex positivity. You know, there's like forgot that it was part of the movie. Like it was unnecessary. It felt weird. Like we watched this with our friend of the cast, Melissa Lozada Oliva. And she was like, this movie at times, like this movie was written by four people and it shows.

That is such a good analysis. Because that scene felt like of all the tropes that this movie avoids, I'm like, oh, they could have avoided the drug scene it just like not that it's bad it's just like it just felt weirdly out of place it feels tacked on i feel like it almost like first of all i don't think it was necessary but i feel like the way that they executed it was just wrong like weird like i feel like i would have enjoyed being that the characters were so developed and they had so many different little, like, idiosyncrasies,

it would have been fun to see those idiosyncrasies come out. Like, I forgot that she was like, oh my God, my mom loves me so much. And she's like, I was like, oh my God, I forgot whenever she said she smokes, she thinks her mom's gonna die. And I got super excited about that. And all of a sudden they were dolls.

And I was like, it's just almost like you guys found a way. Have you guys seen that episode of Broad City where they do shrooms? And it kind of reminds me of a watered down version of that, but unnecessary. I think what happened was that they wanted a way to talk about body positivity. And they couldn't figure out a way to work it into the script organically. So they're like, oh, maybe we'll just have them trip and then they turn into like these barbie dolls so smart you're so right because that's what that's function my brain that's what that scene serves to do is like them like oh like look how unrealistic our bodies are but also we kind of

like it yeah she's like i look amazing oh my god and she's like, I look amazing. Oh, my God. And she's, like, touching herself. But at first it's like, wait, how do you even stand up on this? Oh, my gosh, my top's too heavy and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, my boobs are huge and they're smooth. I mean, there's some funny lines in there that, like, hit of, like, her, like, momentary, like, this body makes no sense, but I'm so smooth. Yeah. Stuff like that. It's funny, but it's just, like, I don't know. It's weird.

Like, first of all, I'd rather see Caitlin D and beanie feldstein have that conversation in person a thousand percent like it just felt weird that they're animated and then i don't like what in the middle of this movie like not that i don't dislike the message but it's just like why are they talking about how barbies are disproportionate in the middle of this movie that has nothing to do with how Barbies are disproportionate? It's almost as if they had a checklist of things that they should. And they were like, we forgot body positive. So we got to get that back in. They're like, our woke list.

Our woke list. It does feel like that. Because there's all these other different things where there's a conversation about gender performance versus sexual orientation and how they're different and right yeah which at least that fit in i mean i like that that worked that worked i was like gender performance another thing for me to learn and understand but i'm so down right jenzy is dope which and most of the time like the the little like woke moments that they fit in story i thought were like pretty effective the barbie thing felt kind

of like out of place it's like i did i agree with the point but like why is this yeah like the point doesn't hit home if it doesn't like fit in with the story right and it's like we don't really see those two characters like struggle with their bodies that much in the narrative so it just feels it just felt like kind of that is a good point because it doesn't seem like they really care like about that which we all do but you know what i mean like but it wasn't a focus like a focal point for either of them right there's only one brief moment where molly beanie felting's character says something like oh nick isn't ever gonna like me back because he only talks to girls who look like triple a uh yeah and then amy slaps her across the face for being like don't you ever say anything which i love because i've done that to a

friend i've a hundred percent done that to a friend i literally was like okay so this is gonna get weird and she's like why and i was like if you were someone else and you just said that about you i was like i'd cuss that person out so do you really think i'm gonna sit here and let you talk shit about yourself and be like yeah that's great like what am I supposed to do support you which means I'm also knocking you down or like be a friend and check you and I was like

you can't say that in front of me cause you're essentially talking shit about my friend in front of me which is you which is you so when I saw it I was like I've done that like I totally get it I didn't slap her but like if we have another round yeah I was like if I've done that. I totally get it. I didn't slap her. But like, if we have another round. Yeah, I was like, if you keep it up. Yeah, just know it's coming.

But other than that brief moment, we see them like building each other up. And like they look at each other in their outfits. And they're like, you're so fucking beautiful. Like, you look amazing. There's so much like. And the focal point is more their personalities than their bodies at every point. Because it's like they call her a butter personality. They're worried about how their classmates

perceive them personality-wise. They feel good about the way they're made. Yeah. They're like, we look hot. We look cool. We've got fanny packs. It's just our personalities that suck. Which I think is another great strength of the movie

because Molly is plus plus size but it's like so normalized there's no like there's you don't see anyone like calling her fat or like commenting on her body and aside from that one comment you know she seems perfectly comfortable in her own skin and like which is like teen movies need characters yeah like that yeah because there are girls who are like I don't care about the fucking norm. Like, I like the way I look. Yeah. And it's like, usually I feel like in teen movies like this, if someone is othered in

any way, that has to be the focal point of the whole story. Yeah. It's like, she's like, remember the running joke? It's like, she's the nerd of the high school till you take her glasses off and she's beautiful. And I say that as someone who was in She's All That, okay? So,

know that. That's all 90s movies. Her hair's straight and she's beautiful. It's like, what? We covered that movie on the podcast. It's a fun one covered that movie on the podcast yeah yeah so i'm sure that one's that one passes the vectal test when two women threaten to kill each other oh it's fun i don't even know where to go from that that's amazing okay technically anyway but yeah so we've got the movie sending messages of body positivity. And then on that same vein, I feel like if you see, usually in a movie where you see a character who looks like Molly, she wouldn't have a romantic interest.

Or if she does have a crush on someone, it's unrequited. And if she were to talk to that person, she'd be really flustered and nervous and like not good at talking to like a crush but like her flirt game is good she's so forward and like the whole like god the teenagers talking to each other about harry potter houses i'm like you guys are such losers but it's so cute yeah i mean it's just i think what i love the most about the two women is like they were firmly grounded in themselves like they knew exactly who the fuck they were and they're like women who are 30 who don't so it's so dope I'm like you guys can't see but my arms up um yeah but it's like crazy because it's like you guys are

barely like stepped into the world and high school which is like ruthless you guys are firmly grounded in who you are and like unapologetic because you have nothing to apologize for in the first place right and that's so like i've seen a few criticisms that are like well teenagers aren't actually like that and you're like well no fucking duh teenagers aren't actually like that most of the time but this is like the kind of movie that's like uh you know you're looking for like as a teenager like people to model yourself after yeah and so if you see it's also like because you weren't and your friends were, it doesn't mean they don't exist. Yeah.

They're probably like, sure. I'm like, were you like, super bad? No, shut up. Like, there are so many like, cool example characters that like, I wish I had seen when I was a teenager.

And something I really liked about this movie is the, that I think deviates from like, the teen movie like, general formula is that it gives attention liked about this movie is the that i think deviates from like the teen movie like general formula is that it gives attention and care to its like b characters yeah they only show up in a few scenes but pretty much everyone is fleshed out my favorite example of that is triple a i loved triple a's character she is framed at the beginning as sort of like a teen movie trope

of like she's the quote unquote slutty hot girl. Yeah, the mean girl almost. Yeah, she's insulting Molly in their gender neutral bathrooms and high school, which is great, but also bad for Molly in that case

because boys are talking shit about her outside of the bathroom. I'm so sorry to interrupt, but I just saw this. The things that you notice as actors we see, either that one extra who's doing too much in the background or blah, blah, blah. I love that person who's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, how are the fights happening in the restaurant?

I'm like, that guy, that guy. Don't stop looking at him. But did you look at the graffiti on the walls? It was like penis. But it was like the most beautiful writing. And I was like, OK. The set director was like, don't mess with the paint too much. I was like, this is so perfect.

So perfect. I'm sorry. I totally just like, I thought of the graffiti and was like, that shit is such a set director. Yeah, like our designer. Someone was doing good work. Yes. But AAA. Yeah. I a she yeah i loved her i loved her because then she immediately like in the space of she's presented as this sexually

promiscuous mean girl and then in in that same scene molly you know goes out to stand up for herself and is pretty rude and is just like well you guys aren't going to good schools. And then it turns out that, like... They're smashing it. Yeah. I didn't see that coming. Triple A is also going to Yale, and, like, she just totally subverts everything that you learn about her. And then there's another scene with her and Molly at the end

where Triple A gives Molly a ride home and says... Basically, like, she was called, like, the handjob queen or something. Well, she gets called Triple A because job queen or something and she gets called triple a because yeah she gave roadside assistance to men in like which is more clever than any teenager but like sure yeah yeah i'm like i'm like i remember my nicknames they were never like oh wow you actually are witty like it was just like you're an idiot like i totally identified with

triple a in like elementary school or not, not elementary. Whoa, that would have been bad. Like, oh, let's learn about my childhood. Junior high because like I was the little girl with huge lips. And so all the boys started calling me DSL. And you can figure out what those mean. And they would just be like, yeah, Vanessa's got that high speed internet. And I was like, what? And then I was like, oh, you guys are so fucking guys are so fucking stupid but I was like first of all I'm 15 that's never happened like I identified with AAA I'm like everyone's like she's the social one who parties but I was like I have a 4.1 I'm

going to USC bye like bye and that was like what AAA does at the end she like says basically she's like yeah I've had sex before and like she's very like sex positive about the way she presents herself but she's like but people have the wrong idea about me i've literally just given people rides home and then boys will like lie about like what i've done with them please but she does say that she does say she's done it no but she goes this is why guys say i've given roadside assistance because i picked them up and she goes and go yeah like and i've also given them i'm also blue that but like it's not like i came over to do which i was like that's hilarious yeah right like i i didn't i almost thought that they weren't gonna say that which i thought would have been awesome but i

also like the fact that she's like no i did do that but like does that mean like i did that because i wanted to and i want me at the stake for it? No. Right. And then it doesn't mean that she's stupid and it doesn't mean that she's not going to be. And then like, I don't know, the way she and Molly sort of reconcile at the end, I'm like, oh, they're going to be like roommates in a year. Like for sure they're going to be best friends. It's going to be so much fun to see.

I want that movie. To backpedal a little further on her storyline, so before we even meet her on screen, Molly and Amy are talking about her and call her AAA. And Molly participates in this what's essentially like a slut shaming nickname. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And then later when Molly's in the car with her, AAA, who's, I don't remember what her actual name is. Annabelle. Annabelle. Yeah.

She does this whole thing where it's like, you know, I understand the guys calling me that, but it really hurt when the girls were calling me that. Like she, I guess, assumed there would be. Solidarity. Exactly. So she was upset that the girls were calling her AAA too. And then Molly's like, oops, I did that. But then she's like, Amy never called you that. Which is nice.

What I also like too is like, I don't know whether or not this is like a belief that is widely held. But I feel like there's something where people don't get that women can also be like funny and pretty and sociable and smart. Like we can do that. Yeah. We can do both. Yeah. We can have it all. And we can also be funny. Right.

Yeah. It's just wild all of the possibilities. I guess I kind of misunderstood that final scene with AAA and Molly. Because the way I interpreted it was that, yeah, she had like blown or given handjobs like some of the guys but not all of them and like what resonated with me that I guess didn't happen in that scene was that like there are times where

like high school boys will overestimate what they did with a girl which I thought wasn't which wasn't really like a point I see like addressed by the girl in a lot of movies and so I guess, yeah,

that didn't, I wish that. Yeah. That would have been nice. She basically, what happens? She just essentially admits like, yeah,

the things you heard about me. Yeah. I did give some blow jobs, but it's because like I wanted to, and I wanted to enjoy myself. Like, and she were like, refuses to be slut shamed for her activity,

which is great. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's a few other like things that are like you know promoting sex positivity in this movie that i really enjoyed which is like just the friends encouraging each other to like explore their sexuality um you know molly's like oh i want you to like kiss a girl amy finally and all this stuff we see them talk about masturbation and like share masturbation stories they watch porn together

they do that oh my gosh which i so did with like my best friend of just like let's let's figure this out we have internet access i'm like duh who hasn't this is before like private browsers so we were just like fuck it let's get in there you know full-on desktop like it's like i don't know do you know okay well what is how do you google you can literally like google sheer tights and everything will come up like you know like you don't even have to try hard yeah

another moment I liked along that same vein was there's a rumor that it's been spread around about Jared and how he lost his virginity to when he was 14 to a sex worker which is language that you i've never heard in a movie it's like someone say the word sex worker which i mean this movie corrects a lot of really good things yeah uh and then later on jared reveals that he didn't have sex with a sex

worker he didn't he's never had sex with anyone which he's like not ashamed to admit he tells this to the most elevated high school girl that he clearly has a crush on he's just like yeah i've not fucked and i'm okay with that i gotta say that's hot jared i love the fact that when they're talking about his rumor she's like this is too crazy of a rumor to not be true and i literally was like 100 yeah because like i've i've i've just accepted that too like who would make that up but it's like a lot of people maybe a lot of people yeah there i mean and jared is like another one of those like sort of b characters that you end up getting that full arc with where i feel like if this movie was made 10 years ago that would just be the joke like he'd be the rich like oh we don't really pay attention to him but we like that he has a lot of money right eccentric rich kid uhentric rich kid, slut-shamed girl. Like, those would have been

the one note, but this movie, like, does go out of its way. Yeah, they did a really good job of, like, giving them their own moment

in the sun without it being too much. Yeah, it's cool. And then, like, Hope, who is the hot girl

who Amy hooks up with in the bathroom, like, we get to see her a second time and she's not just sort of, like, put in the, like, random hot girl. Like, I feel like in a second time and she's not just sort of like put in the like random hot girl.

Like I feel like in a different movie. Angry hot girl. Yeah. She would have been mean or she like. She is kind of mean though. Yeah. She was mean in the beginning scene. Like I remember like seeing her and just being like oh she's going to be a pain in the ass all movie.

And then she was like back at the end. But then it kind of resolves at the end where she's just like, hey, hope I see you around. But then in the bathroom, even, she's just like, you fucking idiot. You're crying in a bathroom. I don't like meek people. And then that prompts Amy to surprise kiss her, which there's two surprise kiss. Both of the protagonists of this movie do a surprise kiss. And Beanie Feld seems surprise kiss i was truly i

was like where did this i mean i know that they they set up her and jared but like that kiss at the end you're like this is very sudden yeah there's two surprise kisses in this movie uh so you know we're not all the way there there's still surprise kisses and a predatory teacher yeah those are some of the things that i didn't care for. Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for more hot discourse. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate.

My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was December 2019 when the story blew up.

In Green Bay, Wisconsin, former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila caught up in a bizarre situation. KGB explaining what he believes led to the arrest of his friends at a children's Christmas play. A family man, former NFL player, devout Christian, now cut off from his family and connected to a strange arrest. I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. I got swept up in Kabir's journey. But this was only the beginning in a story about faith and football, the search for meaning away from the gridiron and the consequences for everyone involved. You mix homesteading with guns and church and a little bit of the spice of conspiracy theories that we liked. Voila! You got straight away.

I felt like I was living in North Korea, but worse, if that's possible. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels, into something everyone in the South loves, the biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? I mean, the Boone County Rebels will stay the Boone County Rebels with the image of the Biscuits.

It's right here in black and white in print. They lion. An individual that came to the school saying that God sent him to talk to me about the mascot switch. As a leader, you choose hills that you want to die on. Why would we want to be the losing team? I'd just take all the other stuff out of it. Segregation academies. When civil rights said that we need to integrate public schools,

these charter schools were exempt from that. Bigger than a flag or mascot. You have to be ready for serious backlash. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Let's talk about Jessica Williams. Yeah, was it, were we going into negatives, or did we?

Let's go into some negatives, because there are a few. This is not a perfect movie. No. God, I just, like, Jessica Williams is so funny, like, in the first half of her scenes, when we see her at school, and then even when we see her pick up the girls and is like, man, you should go to a party. I wish I had. And then she talks about how she was banned from all the Jamba Juice.

That shit was hilarious. It's a sensation. That shit was hilarious. It was so funny. And then I feel like the movie kind of sells her character out and they make her a predatory teacher which doesn't seem like the character we met at the beginning of the movie yeah there's Theo is his name who failed seventh grade twice so he's older he's 20 which they go I feel like the movie tries to get

a pass by stating that several times yeah they're like we're not making it like weird like but you're still at uh like you're still fired like you're still at, uh, like you're still fired. Like you're still at a high school party. My best guess is like, they're making another attempt to like subvert a trope where it's like, Ooh, look how cool it is that an older woman gets with a younger man because we don't see that that much. The problem is that power dynamic,

the power dynamic. Exactly. It is, uh, also being at your students's party you're fired you're fine there's all these other probably underage kids there they're all drinking like yeah you're like cool this is tight yeah make sure your homework's in on monday and don't take that jello like what like i just feel like like when she was driving off you could like see in her

mind her thinking about possibly going to the party right and i was just hoping it didn't happen you're like there's no way and there was no reason for her to happen because it's not like we saw them hooking up or anything like yeah yeah it was so i mean that was another thing that i think is like this movie was written by four people and this movie the first draft of this movie was written 10 years ago so the first there's four everyone credited on this on the screenplay as a woman but the first draft was written in 2009 by emily halpern and sarah haskins so that to me felt like some first draft shit oh yeah and i feel like 2009 was at the hilt of oh my god students and teachers are hooking up like yeah, yeah. And they're like, well, let's do a little twist on this that is, like, ultimately misguided and doesn't help the story

and just is a waste of Jessica Williams. And I'm mad about it. And to be honest, like, there were no brown women in that movie. Like, there were no, like, that's the thing that drove me insane about this movie. I think it did such a great job of showing high school men in every light. And we only had white high school girls.

Yes, absolutely. It was a huge missed opportunity. Like, and here's the thing is, like, I always think about that when I think about representation in movies. Like, okay, like, you know, you get a script or an audition and it'll say like, Vanessa, 12 to 15. I've never, I'm never going to play that age right now, but you get what I'm saying. And it'll either say like African American or all ethnicity. And so I wonder with this, like, was it specified all ethnicity and these girls just happen to be the best, which they were fucking awesome. Like, I won't take that away from them. Or was it one that was specifically Caucasian? And I'm like, there's so many,

like to me, none of the actual girls in the high school, their personalities weren't specific to a culture. So they could have been any culture. You know what I mean? Like I would say like, what is not Beanie's character, Amy? Amy. Amy, like, okay, so we saw her parents.

I understand that. But like Beanie could have been like a mixed race easily because we never saw her parents. Any of the girls. Gigi. Gigi. Triple A. Any of those girls could have been Asian, Hispanic. The dude who hooked up with Jessica Williams was Mexican.

He says that he's Mexican. Do you want to sleep with a Mexican guy? There's two Asian dudes. We've got two gay guys. We've got two black dudes. There's so much diversity in the high school men, and I didn't see myself. Which is so bizarre. That is,

I feel like, one of the big failures of this movie. I was so confused by that. Agree. Yeah. The representation for male high schoolers is, they nailed it. All over the place. They nailed it. And who knows what the actual process was, but this is a movie that was directed by a white lady

written by four white ladies and that shows in the way that like I mean they're representing themselves

and that's unfortunate because it's like I don't know any white girls who went to high school with only white girls no like

and if they did they were were like, shit, dude, I had to figure it out. It was because of where I lived. But in most cities, and that seemed to be like an LA or a New York or something like that, you're going to have a diverse

group of classmates. They're in LA. And especially the male population of the school is diverse why would the female population not be like i literally was like there was not one woman of color besides miss fine right yeah yeah no it's that's insane and that is like the one thing that does kind of bother me about the discussion that is surrounded this movie is that Olivia Wilde has come out quite a bit. And like rightfully so in a lot of ways being like this is a movie for women. Like we we need people to go see this movie.

And like she's really been pushing it and saying like, you know, like everyone has to see this movie or women can't make movies anymore. Which, you know, like I understand where she's coming from, where it's, like, it's hard for women to get second chances and all that. It's the same thing with the black community. They're like, it takes 20 years to get funded. And then Black Panther came out, and now we're good. No, I'm just kidding. Now we're straight.

Problem solved. Like, thank you so much, Marvel. But she, I mean, but she's only representing, like, white women in her movie. And that's a legitimate complaint that I don't think that she is really addressed or like taken in stride very and that's why i was like trying to think of it outside of like so what are the possibilities that could have landed in this way like is it all ethnicity and these girls like i get it like you see someone you're like i wanted it to be a black person but this girl nailed it like that's gg you know like so i understand like that but i'm also like really there was no talented women of color who could have been

cast like so many doesn't make sense it's not that well the other thing too is that a lot of the like top billed actors are white because you've got jason sudeikis will forte lisa kudrow they're hardly in the movie at all but they got top billing because they're famous people. And then they're all still white. And then, yeah, I mean, the classmates and the fact that they're all white women. They could have done so much. And I just feel like sometimes you don't need to justify why someone is a different race

because no one really justifies whiteness in films. It's just like that is. It is what it is. Because so much else in this movie is very normalized. Exactly. Like the queerness, body, like it's all very normal. And then like you could have just introduced many characters who were women of color and also had that just be normal.

Yeah. And then they just didn't do it. And it's like with the casting thing, it's just like if you can't find like a woman of color who is super funny and incredible like you're just not looking hard enough like it's just it's just i like if if that if they ever came back with like well they just it's like no you just weren't looking hard enough and you weren't and that's like an insult to like every woman of color who's an actor who's like bomb yeah like and I'm like,

okay, what was her name? Hope. I could have justified or validated her being like anything. Like she could have been half Native American. She could have been in this. She just had to be hot. But we just didn't know.

Like I have no idea what her ethnicity is, but at the end of the day, she could still fall in like slightly olive white girl with brown hair. Like, you know what I mean? I just wish that there was something, especially because the boys, there were more diverse,

like, and there were less white boys than there were brown boys, which is never the case. The only white boys, Jared. And then George. And he's peak white boy. George, yes. It's very,

and Melissa pointed out when we were watching as well, she's like the only brown woman who's even mentioned is Rosa Parks when they're like listing off their list of heroes. That was another thing that was like, it's kind of nothing, but it's just like. And Malala, I guess those are their like, the brown girls are their heroes. But then they also mentioned Susan B. Anthony, who was extremely racist. She's the most racist person ever. And like the way way i don't know

like i know it's like a weird white feminism thing like what they're i mean even though i did i say it uh i know i'm like no i mean it's like there is the the way that their rooms were designed i thought was like annoying which i hate saying but it's but there is like a very like their their rooms were given off white feminism hard, where it was, like, framed pictures of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And, like, it was, like, pussy hat feminism, where it was just, like, vaguely consumer. Which I know is just, like, sort of shorthand for, like, these woke young white girls. But it's, like, I don't know. It's, like, how we all felt about Lena Dunham saying that, like, you know.

I was rolling my eyes at the set, like, the way they presented of, like, you know, wearing's like how we all felt about Lena Dunham saying that like I was rolling my eyes at the set like the way they presented of like what you know wearing like pussy patches I'm like I'm sure if I were a high schooler in 2019 I would I would do that to an extent but I was like man there's like wait the pussy patches thing I don't remember that she just had she had like different patches of like vaginas and she had like vagina posters in her room oh i totally didn't see that the set design it was like it was very pussy hat feminism which i'm like always vaguely annoyed by sure uh because it's vague there's nothing there's another white girls uh do it um there's also some you know like trans erasure with that kind of stuff but there's another um moment where i was like this is everything like there's another moment where um like the the white privilege really comes through

where amy there's like a video of her getting arrested and she makes a joke about not having a gun she's like call she's like a call shotgun and then she's like just kidding i don't have one and it's like because you're a white girl that had no consequences but if you were brown or black like you would have probably been shot so okay as the brown one at the table I didn't even think of that thank you so much for bringing that up like like and that's the thing that's crazy to me sometimes it's like sometimes those things are so normalized to me like oh she doesn't have to deal with that like if it had been a brown girl I'd be like oh like because it would be me like I know yeah wow yeah and then like by extension of that like if she was that extremely arrested the fact that it's that easy for her to get out is very I was thinking that too and I was like don't even bring it up but I was like where

are her parents like they were so involved but no one gives a shit now like yeah and then I was like she was out within a day like we've all had a friend who had to spend a night in jail it's not that easy like right you have to tell their parents like you have to tell her yeah like yeah that was like a weird thing i mean and then something i wanted to bring up quickly that was like i think i think my last negative feeling about this movie i I'm pretty sure it was the lack of like in the same way that there's like a lack of self-awareness about like the white feminism that's present in this movie. There's also a complete lack of self-awareness with class,

which I think is like such a teen movie thing and a children's entertainment thing in general that like this, I mean there's room to comment on it in this movie they're in los angeles there's such a wide array of like classes present in the city and this movie is like like most teen movies it's about upper middle class kids who there is no i mean especially where it's like the discussion is they're getting ready to go to college which is like the most devastating financial commitment. Like people who are not in a position for their parents to pay for their schooling.

It's just weird that it's completely not present. That would have been cool. I feel like if there was like a kid who was like down and out, like or like I feel like they did such a good job of taking the secondary characters and giving them a moment in the sun. They could have easily taken one of those guys and, like, added that in, you know? Totally. Like, whatever it may be. Like, maybe it took him two years to complete high school because he was helping the family with a part-time job or something like that. I don't know.

Maybe that's why Theo failed seventh grade so many times. Yeah, because he was like, I got to keep the lights on. I mean, I liked the fact that he was going to go be a coder at google that was funny but like i mean third time's a charm i'm like this guy these kids are so damn confident that's like i'm like that is like the the like coder prodigy character i like that but the i mean just in general i think that there's just like in most teen movies i watched growing up, there was, like, no one from, like, my class reflected. And so it was like, where are the poor kids? Because I was a poor kid in a super rich high school.

And I was like, wait. So, like, I remember coming to school with a guest bag. And, like, it has the same triangle as the Prada triangle. And they were all like, oh, it's Guess. And I was like, but it still holds shit. Isn't Guess also a fancy brand or am I just showing not to Prada people? Yeah they were like oh you poor thing I was like I begged my mom for this what are you fucking talking about my chapstick is in here I'm killing it like don't feel sorry for me. I just want there to be teen movies where

teenagers are wearing their cousins' clothes. Like, where's that at? I mean, and that's just, like, something that this movie doesn't really, because all these movies need. There was a really good Twitter thread. I wish I had the name of the user that found, like, the scene where the, like, girl goes, you know, dives into an in-ground pool and is all in her feelings in these teen movies. And I'm like, I didn't go into, like, an in-ground pool and is all in her feelings in these teen movies and i'm like i didn't go into like an in-ground pool till i was like 20 like there isn't where but yeah the like girl and her feelings in the in-ground pool shot is it's becoming a trope i mean i do have pool scene written down on here oh yes but mostly because one thing that I loved about this movie was the music. Like, loved the music.

The music supervisor nailed it. Like, really helped me get into the emotions. Like, and here's the thing. Like, even though I'm, like, an actor, I am such an audience member. Like, I, like, I'm all the way in. I, like, I would be great at any test audience because I'm, like, I'm going to feel the moments. Like, when she, like, saw them underwater, Ryan and Hot Guy, who I can't remember that. Nick?

Nick. Yeah. I was like, oh my God. We've, I don't know about you guys. That's happened to me. That's happened to me. Where I've like seen the dude I like kissing a girl at a party. And I thought that we were like on our way to like crush status.

Oh my God. Yeah. Cam Butler. on our way to like crush status oh my god yeah cam butler yeah the music is from i'd never heard of this artist but dan the automator daniel nakamura he's like a i guess he's a famous san francisco electronic artist he did the whole score yeah okay yeah the music supervisor who like did the soundtrack too is also on point i do like that they had the library scene too. I do want to, I wanted to point that out because I was like,

they talk about how smart they are the entire time and I'm glad that they actually showed them like get down to business at what they're great at. And I love a good montage of like,

do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. There's an, okay, one thing that a trope of this movie avoided that I appreciate was like, there was no like

clothes trying on montage where it's like we're going to a party we got to find the best outfit instead they have a self-defense montage where they're like teaching themselves self-defense which was incredible so much like you want to be friends with those girls which is awesome yeah they were so goofy and fun the other thing that this movie avoided that i noticed was there's so many teen movies that ends in prom this did not end in prom i know it ended i mean but i think that that is again like super bad also i mean i think that that is that might come from like kind of the mold that they're they're pulling from a little bit it's like they're making a movie that has mainly been taken up by male characters before and they're pulling from a little bit it's like they're making a movie that

has mainly been taken up by male characters before and they're making it a woman's story because i feel like yeah there's so many i feel i'm like there there was a draft of book smart that ended in prom and not glad that is not what we're discussing yeah but it's cool because it ends in graduation which makes sense because they're academic yeah kids and then when the car pulls into the football field, you're like, yes! It's so exciting. That was exciting. Although, Grandma Caitlin here, one of the things I didn't care too much about this movie is that it makes irresponsible driving seem cool and fun.

Because they were driving like a bat out of hell. Yeah, there were so many like, all of your parents are away right now and you know teens are gonna see that and they're gonna think i should drive like that and they're gonna cause an accident take an uber instead i know they'll cancel on you oh i mean i was fine with the irresponsible driving they were driving a car with flames on it how else are you gonna drive it's true my boyfriend's driving a truck with flames on it right now and you know we were making bad decisions on the highway we were driving a truck with flames i don't care if i die if i die i'm dying in a truck with flames hopefully it doesn't happen but i'll be like that's what she wanted you guys so she's she's fucking resting in peace. She's resting in flames.

Bye. Yes, please put R.I.F. on my tombstone. Resting in flames. That's kind of sick. That also implies that I'm in hell. You're in hell, yeah. That's fine. Another big discussion that we should cover is the representation of queerness in this movie. We talked to our friends Ellie Brigida and Lee Holmes Foster.

Who were on our Debs episode. Of the Les Hangout podcast. They're wonderful and they kindly, we asked for their perspective on how they felt about how queerness was represented in the movie. And they gave us truly wonderful comprehensive thoughts. Yes. That we would like to share. Yeah. Should we just go back and forth on the points?

Bullet point by bullet point. First point is, Booksmart subverts LGBTQ tropes and gives us a lesbian lead character, Amy, who has already been out for two years at the start of the movie. She is confident in her sexuality and knows she likes girls. Her best friend is supportive, even encouraging her to lose her lesbian virginity with a joke about scissoring which could be cringe worthy except for the subsequent exchange with amy claiming that quote lesbians don't scissor and molly arguing don't knock it till you try it which a is totally valid and b is some sort of meta humor given that beanie feldstein is dating a woman in real life which i did not realize that

yeah cool next point amy's parents are also supportive of her without question in skipping amy's coming out story we instead get to focus on amy as a person and get to see the high school experience we've seen in every straight high school movie ever uh from an out lesbian high school experience which totally agree with such a good point again in the same way that like uh beanie feldstein's body doesn't become her story like amy's sexuality doesn't become her story yeah both again very normalized co-stars to who they are yeah they're so comprehensive yes thank you so much so much appreciate it yes uh next point amy's initial love interest ryan is also an interesting subversion of LGBTQ trips.

She wears board shorts, she skates boards, and she has a short haircut. Amy spends half of the movie trying to figure out if she's gay or not until she sees her making out with Nick, who is Molly's love interest. This shows that gay girls don't have to look a certain way to be gay and someone can quote look like a lesbian and still not identify as one gender expression is completely different from how you express your sexuality which they basically say said in the movie yeah yeah oh it's just sitting here just soaking it all in the sex scene between hope and amy is also well done and realistic amy doesn't have a perfect first time but she does get the hot girl in the same way that the michael ceres of the world have been getting hot girls for years the only love scene in the whole movie is a queer love scene there are some straight makeouts

but the sex scene is reserved for our lesbian high school protagonist which i've never seen in a movie yeah ever awesome that that happens like the one sex scene you get is a queer god and sex scene and even though things do go wrong in kind of a goofy judd apatow way it's like it's not specific to her sexuality it's just an awkward teen sex scene right because she's just inexperienced i did find it hard to suspend my disbelief for amy not knowing the difference between a butthole and a vagina what that would feel like and where the positioning is because she has those parts

you have both and you know the proximity, vicinity and the general feel I've made some weird mistakes everyone makes weird I agree but I'm like well I guess she's probably made a lot of mistakes hold up no no agree but I'm like well I guess she's probably

hold up hold up no no no no okay so wait I'm just thinking the visuals I'm doing right now okay so Beanie was like flip it maybe that's why she messed up oh that's the only thing that I could possibly be like maybe she didn't think like flip myself

but flip I don't know I'm overthinking the other thing I can maybe think to justify that was that she's presented as being so awkward when it comes to her like talking to her crushes. Which I think is really, like I said before, like Molly is like super confident around her crush and is like really good at flirting by contrast amy who is like the person who like more traditionally adheres to western beauty standards and is usually like that type is usually presented as being way smoother with like their crush and but she's so awkward well and i do like like that she has a little bit of anxiety but it doesn't take over her whole character about like well i don't know how this girl identifies and my favorite way that that is like expressed in a very like kind of subtle funny ways when she's talking about how she's going to

Botswana and she's like well I couldn't go to Uganda because Uganda's every like very anti-queer and then she just says she like mumbles like would you be afraid to go to Uganda like that was my amazing it was so sweet it's just like oh my god how could you not want to like just come over and hang out with me and i'll protect you guys for the rest of your life so sweet it was adorable so one thing that does kind of bug me about that scene and i i touched on a little bit the the scene where they're in the bathroom and and hope and amy are hooking up is that the kind of precursor to them kissing and hooking up is Hope pretty aggressively negging Amy and then that gets her to be like oh you're so hot

smooch like surprise kiss and I'm like I feel like that could have been handled better we're like why is Hope this like needlessly mean girl and like why does that turn Amy on well and then and especially in like a movie that generally does well by its b characters like there could have been something set up between those two characters earlier but it feels so sudden they had a very very very short exchange when they walk into the classroom but it was so short that i don't remember what hope said i just remember her giving attitude i remember because i've seen it three times. Thank you. This is why we need you. It's right after they score Jessica Williams' character's phone number.

And then Hope says, oh, you got your teacher's phone number? And she's like, yeah. And she's like, okay, or cool, or something like that. And it's like, maybe she's trying to flirt. And maybe she's using negging as a flirtatious tactic. Or maybe she's just mean. But she could have said something like have a good date this weekend or something like kind of,

I don't know, like set up like. It was weird. I don't know. I guess Hope is just the one who's like we don't understand why she's mad but like maybe she'll figure it out

and let us know. She's just very opaque. We'll get the sequel. Hard to know. Right. Like oh, that's why Hope's mad. The gal sent us two more points.

Two more points. Next one is Beanie Feldstein, who plays Molly, Amy's straight best friend, is also an openly queer actress, which gives the movie extra points for casting queer actors in a queer movie, even though Molly isn't playing the lesbian character. Which is great, because queer actors don't always have to play queer characters. Like, that's not, yeah. And we talked about that on the recent Carol episode too, where it's like straight actors are usually cast to be the ones playing queer characters.

It's much rarer to see out queer actors being cast at all, much less in straight roles. Do you think it happens more with women where they cast queer women in straight roles more than men? I think, well, interesting. A few examples that I have off the top of my head are Ellen Page, Kristen Stewart, and Portia de Rossi. Yeah, I mean, it is harder to think off the top of my head. Those are really good ones, though. That might be one of the, I mean, I'd be interested in what our queer friends have to say about that because it might be like something that is a little bit I'd be interested in what our queer friends have to say about that. Because it might be like something that is a little bit easier for women, which is rare to say ever.

But like the only out male actor I can think, I mean, like Neil Patrick Harris is the example. That's a great one. Yeah. But I can't think of like, I can't think of another example. Oh, there's the dude on Suits. I can't remember his name. Oh. I don't know who that is. Who is on Suits? Was that Meghan Markle name. I don't know who that is.

Was that Meghan Markle's show? Or was that a different one? Oh god, now I'm confusing brunettes with blue eyes. He's so cute too. Zachary Quinto often gets some straight roles. Or is it the Prison Break dude? Oh, what is his name?

Wentworth? No, not Wentworth. Miller? You got Ian McKellen. Or is it the prison break dude? Oh, what is his name? Wentworth. No, not Wentworth. Miller. Well, and then you've got like Ian McKellen is cast as Gandalf. Yeah. I mean, he can do no wrong. He's Magneto. Genderless. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I guess there are examples. Sure. That would be fun. Like not fun, but like something interesting to explore. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

I mean, yeah, we would be if any of our queer listeners have opinions on that, we would love to hear it. Sure. And or other examples. Yeah. And finally, the last point that they sent along was all in all, we would have killed for this type of representation

in high school. Amy's sexuality is basically a non-issue. Nobody questions it. Nobody bullies or teases her for it. Multiple side characters are queer or fluid in various ways, also without facing any social repercussions. And the jokes are never at the expense of queerness. What a welcome delight.

It's true. And what a delight for them to have shared their wonderful perspectives. Thanks again to Ellie and Lee for that. And listen to the Debs episode we did with them. Yes, and just to listen to their podcast in general yeah something that i liked that the trope that this movie did adhere to was that many of the high school seniors are 25 years old that's just a trope i'll never get tired of uh i love you know it's like all power to the child actors but i I'm like, you know, we're out here, we're 26 years old, and we need people to think we're 18. And I appreciate that.

The Billy Lord 26-year-old visibility. It's so good. It was high. It was high. A couple other things I just wanted to point out because I thought they were funny or relatable. Amy does not do well on pot i found that i love very relatable for me i have a panic attack anytime i consume marijuana so i was like thank you visibility it's important here and then molly has a crush on a guy that she does not want to

have a crush on and i also found that very relatable because I was like yes I there have been shitty men who cry myself I mean did you hear my gasp I just went through all my trauma I just let it all out right there oh did you have any anything else one last quick little thing I did enjoy the scene in the lift where their principal is pitching them his detective novel yes he's like oh you guys would like this which i feel like people say to me all the time like knowing that we do this podcast yeah they're like he's like oh it's a female detective who is pregnant and every time she has a hunch the baby kicks and then he's like he's like i haven't worked out what happens when she gives birth but like that's where i'm at right now and it's just like oh okay a man trying to write a pregnant woman you know he's like i'm an ally and you're like read a book you dork

but then the last real point that i have is that yes this movie at the time of this recording hasn't been doing super well at the box office it's grossed 14 million dollars that i think is a complicated discussion though because it was there i think that there is like a weird that was just like the that's why it's part of the discourse around this movie like in the twitter discourse just like it kind of it kind of rubbed me the wrong way because i feel like it was sort of a cut and dry like see people hate women it's like well this movie was released at a weird time like it was released i didn't even know it was out that's the problem like how can i see something if i don't know it exists it was yeah like the marketing was off it was released between the avengers

between aladdin between these giant god don't do blockbusters you don't like you can't do like a unfortunately like a feel-good person driven story like during may yeah just don't do it it just seemed like a silly business decision well i guess they're lining it up with like high school graduation time sure yeah it didn't there are a lot of like stuff that i've read because i do agree with the sentiment that it is you know it's like when you're a female director, it is harder to get a second opportunity to make a movie if your movie didn't absolutely kill it the first time and that your work is just automatically held to a higher standard of success. I totally agree with that. that I think that it's a little it's a little more complicated than it's been presented and that if this movie had been released in like August it may have performed if it was

coming out in a less crowded like because and there was a lot of like discussion of like well Aladdin fucking killed it at the box office and I'm like no but of course people are going to go see that just to see it like I remember are you joking like don't even call me when the Lion King is coming

out in July like I'm like I'm booking out for the entire month like I can't like I took a photo by Simba when I went to go see Endgame the other day and I was like lock it up V lock it up I'm about to be oh my gosh what and that was a deal and that was like a bad look for a lot of people criticizing it because they're like it's a movie with all white girls. And they were like, well, like Aladdin has a majority POC cast. And it's like, no, that's not the hill to die on. Like, it's just like the discussion around it was very weird. I wish it had done better at the box office, but I sort of understand why it didn't.

Of course, like at the end of the day, like it's kind of tough to hear this is a movie about women and then women who are hearing the message don't see any women reflected in the cast right it's not like i don't go see movies like okay we match i'll go watch no that's not my standard but it would be nice to see like a bouquet of kids in that movie and we women didn't like young adolescent women didn't get that yeah yeah i mean and it have been so, the movie is written in a way that there's no reason it wouldn't be that way. Yeah, it's so, maybe it would have been too perfect. Yeah, they're like, we have to, you know, take it down a notch. We gotta have something to strive for in the second one. Yeah, right.

I get it, I get it. Okay, cool, cool, cool. What I will say, though, even though the box office numbers aren't great, the movie, again, at the time of this recording, has a 97% on Rotten Tomatoes, which I think is encouraging and a, you know, departure from what we've seen in the past where, you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, where mostly male critics would be reviewing female-driven movies and hating them just because they were female-driven. So it was at least encouraging to me to see that it has such a high score with critics because that hopefully means things are changing a bit. Yeah. And I honestly, I have no doubt that Olivia Wilde will get... Shout out to the movie Doubt.

I have such doubt. And yet, in this case, I have no doubt. I have no doubt that Olivia Wilde will get to make another movie, which, again, is she's a famous white lady. And so there is some privilege there, too. Like, I don't know. She'll get to make another movie. And I hope that she includes women of color in her next one. She will after the Twitter feed, probably.

I hope so. It seems like she is reading the comments feed probably i hope so it seems like she is reading the comments and i was like honestly brave yes and she's gonna listen to this episode and she's gonna be like wow the beckle cast they'll be like we want women of color in the movie but vanessa is not allowed to audition you're gonna be the star of booksmart too the college version that'll be really fun. Melissa just texted me. She said, I think my favorite part of Booksmart was that everyone was excited to see them at the party.

That was really sweet. It's true. It's true, though. No one was like, oh, the nerds came. Everyone was like, we've been waiting for this. Wow. It was such a supportive movie. Man, man. We wish that was our high school. Good God. came everyone was like we've been waiting for this wow it was such a supportive movie we wish that was our high school thank god yeah i think that was all i had did anyone have any other final

points yeah check your hand that you've written on the thing that's making me really sad is towards the bottom i have don't trust but i don't remember why i wrote it i mean a good general rule oh is that oh that's because that's what michael b Michael Bryan's character says in the car to them. He's like, don't trust people because they like get into that car and he like gives this whole monologue about how scary people can be. You are a queen and a psychic, obviously. I like because I was like, I was like, I'm gonna probably have to email them later and be like, I figured out what don't trust on my finger pad means. But we got it. It's also I mean, he's giving them very good advice.

But then he turns out to be a killer. I didn't see that coming at all. I mean, which was great. Hey, does this movie pass the Bechdel test or not? A hundred percent. Oh, yeah. Lots and lots. In fact, if I may just give a fun little Easter egg.

I don't know what this is um i'm listening in amy's house there's a sign on her bedroom door that says a room of one's own which is the title of the extended essay by virginia wolf that is partly what allison bechdel attributes the bechdel test to nice so a nice little bechdel test tie-in in the movie. I think they put that there for us. I think Olivia Wilde was like, she threw it in. Olivia Wilde, come on the cast. Yeah, we'll have you any time.

Come on the cast. She's our biggest fan. You're a coward. That's my new approach. Shaming women into coming on the podcast that's my feminism you're gonna be like we've never had as many guests approaches ever uh but yeah this movie passes a million times between many many different combinations of characters and strong strong showing of the test here uh let's rate the movie on our nipple scale, 0 to 5 nipples based on its representation of women.

I think I'm going to go, I want to say like a 4.25. Okay. I think it does really well in many regards. the failure to represent women of color the surprise kisses which were tropes that should have been avoided but i guess it's like well we're subverting it because it's women surprise kissing men in this movie no but i think an all-female reboot of surprise kisses i'm not on board that should not be surprised no genders should surprise kiss any other gender. Leave me alone. Yeah, just those few different things like that, which were missteps here and there that I wasn't a fan of.

But overall, I think the movie does a pretty spectacular job. And I'll give it 4.25 nipples and I will give one to Beanie one to Caitlin Deaver is that how you say it? her dad is Barney one to Barney

one to Barney don't forget Barney that's not cool and then I'll give one to Billy Lord uh Carrie Fisher's daughter and I'll give actually no I want to give one nipple to Jessica Williams and I'll give my quarter nipple to Billy Lord sick I'm gonna give this oh this is gonna be too mean I'm gonna give it 3.5 though um I especially I mean even and I probably would have given it a little more before this discussion, but I feel that after talking about it a little bit, like, the only including white women is such a mistake and such a huge lost opportunity.

Especially, like, it bothers me when a movie really is selling itself as like the woke feminist text and then erases all women of color like that is fucking stupid and annoying uh i don't like that the only like women of color they include they like subject to this shitty trope i hate that storyline the fact that there's a predatory teacher at like all i mean even think about her name miss fine like i was like yeah i was like you guys are kind of like feeding this to me like she's fine as fuck and like okay get it i got it the all-female reboot of a predatory teacher another election without that another election kind of thing totally yeah where it's like that that does that trope doesn't work

when it's inverted it just doesn't work ever yeah it's like it's illegal um and and i am just like the lack of any sort of acknowledgement of class in a teen movie is something that always bugs me i don't maybe i'll do like 3.75 that was my nipple yeah we can we can share i think maybe 3.75 because there are the things that this movie gets right it gets really right the lgbtq representation is strong and and and good and from what we can tell from people we've spoken to is very reflective of that experience as a teen. The female friendship is incredible and the lifting each other up. The good stuff is really good. And the stuff that is off just doesn't make sense to me.

And I think that if there were more, if there was not four white ladies writing and directing this movie, that these are mistakes that could have been avoided. And also four privileged white ladies writing and directing this movie that they these are mistakes that could have been avoided and and also uh like for privileged white ladies too because i feel like it may not have occurred to any of these women to include someone of a different class just because they're reflecting themselves right so 3.75 from little jamie i'll give one a beanie one to caitlin one thank you so much jessica yeah one to you specifically caitlin deaver no no she spells her name wrong she she spells it wild uh one jessica williams i give you my 0.75 to either barney or Jared. I can't decide. Feminist icon Jared.

Jared was doing his best. I hope in college he's like, oh wait, Sheryl Sandberg is not the feminist icon I was looking for. Anyways, he'll pick up bell hooks this freshman year and we'll figure it out. Vanessa. Wow. Wow, guys.

Okay. I was like, numbers, numbers. I started off a little higher and then I got a little bit lower. I totally agree with you. Like, I think that's the thing that's so upsetting about this movie is like, it's such a missed opportunity because they nail so many things that you don't expect to get out of a teen movie. And then it's like, to me, it's so much harder what they nailed that they forgot, like, just diversity. Yeah. That's what I'm like, it's so, like, I feel like maybe they put so much time into developing the B characters and, like, all of that that they forgot. And, like, I don't want to give the four white ladies, like, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. But sometimes it makes me wonder, like, how can you look at your main characters and be

like, this represents all women that it would make me want to step back and be like do I understand what representation of women really means you know honestly like that and the Barbies like my biggest issues I just wish that wasn't there um yeah I feel like that is my main issue with that and then I also feel like yeah I feel like everything you guys said I like lost some of it I'm looking at my hand I'm forgetting um so I have to give out 3.75 nipples I think I just really wanted to get to that part um that's the fun part yeah it's bomb okay so I'm gonna give one nipple to their friendship because it's just like oh it's so pure yeah um I'm gonna give one nipple to Gigi's

disappearing act because that bitch can teleport it's just amazing was that disrespectful um she can like I'm like women and that um so she can do that I think she's a time traveler that's mine oh yeah she was the shapeshifter yeah she yeah she's like going in and out of the Star Wars

universe um i'm gonna give a nipple to the pool scene and the music because it really took me on a journey yes and then i'm gonna give my seven my 0.75 to alan's speech at the beginning of the murder mystery party if there were two he would have they would have had four nipples if he had had two. If he had done that speech twice, it could have gone up. If George had just let him finish what he was saying. I was like, he definitely gets a nipple. That is the best. Also, one of my favorite

jokes in the movie is just like very subtle in the beginning when like they're all in the classroom and George is like, there's no spatial awareness at this school. I also love when he was like, I don't audition, offers only. It's like, but you're in a high school play? What?

And the way that they, oh, God, their drama speech at the beginning where they're like, it's in the parking lot of a Whole Foods. Also, it was the play I did last summer at camp. I'm like, yep, that is what drama kids are like. So good. I loved them. Oh, my gosh. Well, Vanessa, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, guys.

This was like. What a delight. No, my gosh. Well, Vanessa, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, guys. This was like. What a delight. No, you guys are killing it. My brain cells are all activated. Thank you for coming. We're so, like, excited to have you on. Yes. Anytime.

If you guys ever need me back, I 100%. Of course. Miles lives to see another day. Thanks, Miles. Is there anything you'd like to plug and where can people follow you online? Let's see. I've got an episode of Animal Kingdom

coming out in a couple of weeks. They put a bunch of fake tattoos on me. I loved it. Oh, I have this really cool show coming out in fall with Funny or Die called The Coop. Ooh, fun. It's interactive,

so it's murder mystery and you have to help like it's Choose Your Own Adventure oh my god it's really dope reading the script was very confusing

I was like I know oh it's Choose Your Own Adventure got it it's really it's crazy filming it

it was insane but it's I've never laughed in bro characters so many times because everyone was brilliant oh that's so exciting yeah and then

I'm on Instagram Vanessa L. Chester just yeah incredible yay thank you so much for coming thank you for having me this was a great great day

so much fun I know I feel I like want to do this with every movie like I need you guys to let me have like mini episodes

where I can just discuss to get it out please come back I will 100% thank you they invited me back you can follow us on the places at Bechtelcast. We've got our Patreon, aka Matreon, with bonus episodes.

Like, super bad if you want to give that a listen. That was a fun one. I think that we were pretty like- That was one of our first Matreon episodes. Which means we were drunk and annoyed when we recorded it. Annoyed or annoying? Or both? Can't it be both yeah two five bucks a month means two bonus episodes a month and i think we're coming up

on like 50 bonus episodes you get access to the whole catalog um you can check us out on instagram facebook twitter at bechtelcast or go to tpublic.com slash thebechdelcast for all our piping hot t-shirt and other things designs is. Go check some out. Yeah, also go to our website, bechdelcast.com and click on live appearances for some upcoming

live shows that, you know, we might be having. We may or may not be having. Only one way to find out go to our website and then if you're in uh if you're in the uk this summer please come to see my show at enbro fringe fest or i'll uh cry i'll cry anyways i feel like i'm gonna be crying all summer but that's okay yes see you there see jamie's show and um other than that um go go read a book go read a book. Go read a book. Go be book smart. Oh, wait.

Can I say one more thing? I was like, maybe the movie didn't perform well at the box office because the word book is in the title. And people hate books. People hate books. They're like, if it was called Movie Smart, people would go to see that movie. Audio Book Smart? Oh, yeah.

Audio Book Smart? Everyone would be like, I'm there. Oh, sick. Sounds like less work. Let's change the name of our podcast to podcast smart podcast hard pass fine okay bye daphne caruana galicia was a maltese investigative journalist who on october 16th 2017 was assassinated crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one woman wiki leaks she exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me?

A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology. Swaps of different meds. But by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane, what we can do about it, and why we should care. Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture, like mariachis, delicious cuisine, and even lucha libre. Join us for the new podcast, Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you stream podcasts.