The Bechdel Cast - Bound with Vanessa Guerrero

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Vanessa Guerrero plan a mob heist while kissing each other and discussing Bound.  (This episode contains spoilers) For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast. Follow @nessguerrero on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP.   Here's the interview we mentioned, "Jennifer Tilly and Gina Gershon revisit their lesbian neo-noir Bound" - https://ew.com/movies/2019/06/06/jennifer-tilly-gina-gershon-revisit-lesbian-neo-noir-bound/And Caitlin was an extra in Season 10 Episode 11, entitled "Stranger," of Law and Order: SVU   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes,

and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels, into something everyone in the South loves, the biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? It's right here in black and white in print.

It's bigger than a flag or mascot. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions ask if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just

boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effining vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Oh, Jamie, I dropped my earring down the sink. Can you reach into my drain and get it out? Um, yes. I'm assuming that's why you hired me to come here is to remove things from your

drain is that correct uh yeah and if you need to keep reaching into my drain over and over would you like to have sex is that what you're saying because these metaphors are getting exhausting for me. Gina Gershon. Yeah, and me, Jennifer Tilly. Oh my God, Jennifer. I get it. Okay, let's have sex. I would like to fuck. I would like to fuck.

Wow. That is actually an iconic Jennifer Tilly impression. Congratulations. I felt like I wasn't doing a very good job, but thank you. I felt like you captured the spirit. Oh, thank you. Thanks. I think it was great. Well, I think that was our best intro in truly many moons. Years. Years.

Years. Years. Welcome to the Bechdel cast cast my name is Jamie Loftus my name is Caitlin Durante and this is our podcast where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate a larger conversation the Bechdel test being a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test, in which our version requires that two people of a marginalized gender have names, they speak to each other and their conversation has to be about something

other than a man for like a two or more line exchange of dialogue. And hopefully that conversation is narratively impactful. Right. This is, I mean, and hopefully that conversation is narratively impactful right uh this is i mean first of all you really took control of the intro there and i really thought it was powerful and exciting oh yeah um thank you jennifer and yeah and in the case of this movie i really don't think we're going to be having um many issues as it pertains to the Bechdel test. However, we have a great conversation ahead because today we are covering

the Wachowski sisters classic. They're, uh, I believe their first co-director film together. Yeah. Bound 1996 starring impressionized incredibly by caitlin and myself jennifer tilly and gina gershon as well as joey pants amongst a couple of other people christopher maloney is in the damn movie christopher maloney is in the damn movie and that's a really good point um thank you we have we we have so we're covering bound and we have an incredible returning guest who i believe in text in our last episode wanted to cover this movie absolutely yes i think i might have insisted on it i might have immolated myself if it didn't happen um i love this movie so much with every pore of my being and i wanted a reason to

like talk about it well the day is here and let's introduce you properly um our guest today is a comedian and host of the kicking and screaming podcast you remember her from our episodes on Made in Manhattan, Raw, and Atomic Blonde. It's Vanessa Guerrero. Hello. Thank you so much for having me back. I love that this all started with the rom-com episode in which I had a Four Loko because Jamie had one and then I got drunker than I've ever been in my whole life. Oh no. I clearly well, I wouldn't say I clearly remember that. I definitely remember that. I just remember being like, oh, shit. Even like hearing the list of movies you've covered with us in the past is such a delight

because it really just, we've covered so much ground. Yeah. And we're only expanding upon that ground today with Bound. Oh my gosh, Bound. What is your relationship, your history with the film Bound, Vanessa? So there were like a couple movies that I would see on IFC really late night as a kid that were like, Oh my god, this is horny and gay and this is very much like awakening something in me in ways that I can't quite unpack yet they're mine and it was like this and but I'm a cheerleader it was it was usually like one or the other and bound blew my mind because it took the shape of so many things that I like and I had seen before like it took every neo-noir

Marlon Brando ass like someone in a tank top brooding in dark alleys that I've seen a million times but put it into this like almost comic book perspective that just so happened to star two of the hottest women I've ever seen truly I I did that thing where when you want someone. You try and take on their personality. So I was constantly swinging in between like. Hyper femme and mask presentations. Bound definitely like. I experienced a lot of like.

Euphoria with this movie. And it made me love the Wachowski so much. That I watched everything. That they had ever made. Except for the Matrix. Because I was scared that it wouldn't live up to it. And I didn't watch the Matrix until I was like 27. I love it. I love it. I saw it 12 times in one week.

I mean, look, some people watched it later. Some people watched it later than that. That's all I'll say. Yeah. Oh, I love all of that. Jamie, what's your relationship with bound um i didn't think i had much of a relationship with it and then as i was so i had not seen this movie in full before until preparing for this episode however i realized as i was watching it that it's so funny that you mentioned IFC and I'm assuming

the like latest odds, Vanessa, because I think I've mentioned this on the show before. My dad was like a big time, like when he was done with work for the night and like the rest of the family was asleep, he would watch IFC movies like no one's business. And sometimes if you walk in on your parent watching an IFC late night movie, it's uncomfortable. And so I do remember clearly one night in a movie that I now realize was bound. Walking downstairs, passing my dad at the TV to get to the kitchen to get a glass of water and being like

michael what are you watching because it was a scene of gina kershon and jennifer tilly of making sweet love to each other and he was like it's an ifc movie relax because mike loftus is the king of punk and always has been, always will be. But I remember at the time being scandalized by what my father was watching on probably a Tuesday. And then as I was watching this movie that I've now watched three times and I've really, really come to like, I can't wait to talk about it because it's so fucking good and like not only like incredible for its time but incredible for like right now watching it today shows so much about like what's to come in the Wachowski sisters filmography like it just is so good but also I saw my dad watching it in high school and I was like oh um that's my whole history with it I love it i'm excited to talk about it caitlin what's your history with this movie i had never seen any part of this movie not not even late on a tuesday

no but it was on my it's been on my radar forever it's been on my list of things to watch forever i just had not gotten around to it so this episode was the perfect excuse i've seen it i think four times now in the past like two weeks this movie fucking rules like i am sad that i slept on it for so long but yeah i'm so excited to talk about it i kind of don't have a bad thing to say about it it's all good stuff it's still perfect it's kind of a perfect movie should i recap it yeah let's recap it why not oh sorry i was just trying to figure out there's a character played by kevin m richardson he's only credited as cop number two but i immediately recognized his voice and i was like oh my god who is this man wait who is this man so he is the cop that is peeing in the

toilet while there's blood while there's a guy in dead in the tub and his voice like I don't know I just I'm such like I'm so animation filled I'm like I know this man's voice it turns out he is an iconic voice actor and he plays a character in the lilo and stitch franchise named captain gone too oh my god that's why his voice was familiar to me right he's been in a time you could recognize his voice from any you know wild amount of things but i definitely was like oh yeah and then he was like in subsequently low and stitch stuff i'm like oh okay i feel so much better it's such a relief when you hear someone's voice and then you can connect it to a cartoon character for whatever reason oh yeah my brain's like oh cool they're real i get to grab them in reality right you're like that is captain gantu isn't it anyways okay

the movie bound sorry the movie bound. Here it comes. Okay. So Violet, that's Jennifer Tilly and her husband, her husband, or maybe boyfriend. I don't know if they're married or just like partnered. Yeah. Don't put them in a box. I'm so sorry. This toxic relationship could be anything.

It could be anything. You're right. It's like a symbiotic toxic relation. Well, one way someone's surviving and then the other person's a piece of shit it's almost as if she's kind of like bound to him but not because she wants to be oh yes wow there's so much binding in this movie sexy and otherwise his name is caesar that's joe pantoliano, aka Joey Pants. They get into an elevator with Corky. That's Gina Gershon. Violet and Corky make eyes at each other. Then Violet and Caesar go into

their condo while Corky goes into the unit next door she's there to do repairs and fix up the place also quick shout out to the score of this movie by someone named Don Davis because anytime anytime Corky and Violet are in an enclosed space together it's well in the elevator it's something like like it's like a very like it's very 90s sexy music yeah it's like making out in the rain to like an evanescent song horny it's very stylized horny i appreciate it i'm like no need to play subtle here the score was written by Don Davis, as you said. He also wrote the score for The Matrix. And you can, there's a lot of similarities between, when like I was watching Bound and I was like, oh my gosh, this sounds very similar to the score of The Matrix.

I agree. And, and okay, one more Don Davis fact, and then we will return. So I, I feel like this TV series that only i have seen has come up an absurd amount of times on this show is it the beauty and the beast yes it's the ron perlman the ron perlman linda hamilton uh beauty and the beast series he also scored that and you can also hear that you can hear the echoes the foundation of the bound soundtrack i feel like if we ever end up covering tv on this show the bound track if you will if you if we ever end up covering tv shows linda hamilton ron perlman beauty and the beast it's canon it's just like yeah if not good

at least funny i what if we pivot for like a few months and just do a spin-off series and just cover that also don davis did music on recent covered movie casper oh my oh my god the music and that makes me think like it's fall oh right it's so like so he sometimes is like riding on james horner's pegs if will, to put this in a middle school. Like he sometimes is the assistant to James Horner. So, you know, shout out to Don Davis for giving us a sexy elevator upright bass pluck vibe. I appreciated it. Love it.

Love it. Okay. So Corky and Violet have encountered each other in the elevator. Then Violet comes over to the unit Corky's in and introduces herself to Corky, brings her a cup of coffee. They chat. It is very horny and seductive. I assumed you liked it. Like, I assumed you liked your coffee black.

Good guess. You're like, oh, fuck. And then she's like, it's so cool that you can fix things but these walls are so thin so could you just wait a while until you start using your tools because i'm a night person they're both dressed like the hottest girls in silver lake oh my god yes that is very much their vibe where it's like i like these women i don't know if I could hang out with them I'm threatened by them I am deeply intimidated by them I think they would hate me I think they would absolutely hate me but I admire them from a distance I would be sitting across the bar from them like wow

how cool and then they're happy they're here right thrilled for them not going to uh you know roll the dice on whether they would want to talk to me or not they don't hey you never know but Corky Corky's playing it cool and she's just like yeah whatever I'll hold off on using my like drain snake or whatever and then then she's like, by the way, I drive a truck. And I talk about her truck for a while. Then Corky goes to a lesbian bar. We learn that she is an ex-con who recently spent five years in prison. She's a professional thief.

Then Corky goes over to Violet's place to fish out a piece of jewelry that Violet accidentally quote-unquote dropped down the sink you can tell it wasn't on purpose because of the upright bass music that continues throughout the scene well here's my brilliant observation about this so we just covered imagine me and you and there's a scene in that movie where one woman needs the help of another woman to fish a piece of jewelry out of a punch bowl and that is the catalyst i love that movie to get them to like start getting to know each other and eventually get together and kiss. And that's the same thing that happens in this movie. Wait, Vanessa, you've seen Imagine Me and You?

Yes. Riley Silverman told me to watch it one holiday when I said there isn't enough gay rom-coms. And she basically like live texted me through it as I had my experience with it the first time and lost my mind. Oh, I love it. I was like in a hallmark mood and I was like I want something hallmark I just want anybody other than this like configuration that I always see kissing to kiss and I got it's it's almost like when I get out of bound where it's like I want bulb but I want it I want two girls to kiss in like like a sweet rom-com-y way. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. This truly is. Oh, God. I mean, in the way, like, imagine me and you. We recently covered on the show and it's such a blast. And like, even more so than that movie, I feel like Bound delivers on like a great genre like the mafia heisty thriller kind of movie without any of the baggage that usually comes with that genre and so you can just watch it yes and have an amazing time which is all i've ever wanted exactly okay so corky goes over to fish this piece of jewelry out of the sink. Then Violet offers her a drink. She's being very seductive again.

And then she's like, by the way, I'm trying to seduce you. And she puts Corky's hand between her legs and they start kissing. It's getting very hot and steamy. But then Caesar comes home and interrupts, but he doesn't see them. And they have a quick conversation and we gather that Caesar is in the mob. Then Violet goes to Corky later that night or sometime later. They kiss again. They go back to Corky's place and have sex. Boy, do they.

They have sex in a continuous shot. That sex scene was choreographed by suzy bright yes yes and it's so amazing watching it even now in terms of like how how i haven't quite seen anything like it because even when i see lesbian sex on cameras it tends to always have this like heteronormative angle of like being like well this one does this and this other one does this and I was watching it with a friend of mine um who is 25 and she's a lesbian and she's never seen this movie before I hadn't even heard of it and she was like I have never ever not even in porn see a femme be the one that's doing something to the mask one right it's always presented in that like very hetero sense of like yeah the mask is always the one that tops right and so she had

never ever not even in porn like seen this perspective of what is so much closer to like a common experience right seeing someone at that age watch it for the first time and realize they still don't have something like that suzy bright thank you yeah yeah we'll talk about that later suzy bright she's a legend yeah that that scene in general i like i feel like it true it wasn't until the second viewing that that even registered for me because it is so effortless in the way the storytelling is, but you're like, yeah,

you never see a femme top, especially in like a bigger movie in the way that this was like, I just was, uh, what a, this movie like subverts so much in a way that is so effortless that you don't, you may not even necessarily notice it on the first time because the first time i was just so thrilled to see them fucking um that it took me to the second

viewing to be like oh right this was actually like not the most obvious way that this scene would be staged on the part of of suzy bright and the wachowskis. Like it's just, ah, this movie is amazing. It's great. Okay. So the next day Corky sees this guy named Shelly go into Violet's condo and then Corky hears them have sex through the walls. Then the next time Corky and Violet see each other, Corky confronts Violet about having sex with this guy, with men in general, kind of calls her a fraud. But Violet is like, that wasn't sex. That was work. And then they have kind of an argument slash discussion about it. And then they part on kind of bad terms.

Then Corky sees a handful of mobsters bring that guy Shelly into Violet and Caesar's place. One of these mobsters is Johnny, a.k.a. Christopher Maloney. Another is this guy named Mickey. And Caesar and the other mob boys start beating the shit out of Shelley. A lot of wise guy types. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Shelley apparently stole money from the mob boss. So they start chopping his fingers off, trying to get him to tell them where the money is. Meanwhile, Violet goes to Corky and confides in her that she can't do this anymore. She can't be with Caesar. She can't be around all this violence. She wants out. She wants a new life. And she needs Corky's help to get out of this situation. So they start to devise a plan. They are going to steal the $2 million that Shelly had stolen from the mob boss, but Corky isn't sure that she can trust Violet not to set her up, but they decide to trust each other and move forward with the plan, which is, so the mob boss, Gino Marzoni, is supposed to come and pick up the money. Generic Italian name.

Right. You're like, yep, uh-huh, sure, great. Yep, yep, yep. So he's supposed to come and pick up the money from Caesar at his and Violet's condo, along his son who is Johnny aka Christopher Maloney but Corky's going to sneak in and steal the money while Caesar is in the shower before Gino and company show up and then Violet is going to convince Caesar that Johnny must have come in and stolen the money when she goes out to buy scotch because she like fake breaks this bottle of scotch i love that whole like how many it's like not even how many queer tropes are like

shattered in this movie it's just like film noir tropes in general where it's like in so many scenes violet is playing the part of like the typical like mobster's girlfriend who you see in the background of scenes but never has any agency and is always like oh no what's happening and like even he is like joey pants is trying to cast her in that role but she will not be cast in that role yeah it reminded me of the scene where i don't remember the guy's name but in double indemnity when the guy was like here's the plan we're gonna double indemnity his ass and that's what happens but then and in this movie it's quirky laying out this whole like carefully orchestrated plan she's in control it's so great i love it so this plan should work with Violet convincing Caesar that Johnny stole the money.

It should work because we learn that Johnny is kind of a loose cannon and might do something wild like this. And that Johnny and Caesar hate each other. So it would stand to reason that Johnny would want to fuck over Caesar. So with Caesar convinced that Johnny screwed him over and took the money, he will have no choice but to run because otherwise Gino will kill him for stealing his money. And then Caesar running will make him seem guilty, which takes away any suspicion from Violet and Corky being the culprits. so the plan goes off without a hitch to start until violet tries to get away from caesar he holds her at gunpoint and won't let her leave because his plan is when gino and johnny arrive to the money, which is no longer there because Corky came in and stole it.

Right. Caesar is now going to expose Johnny as a thief to Gino by opening the case and showing him that the money is gone. But when this is happening, things escalate and Caesar ends up shooting and killing Gino and Johnny and some third guy that's there. IDK. But he kills them I kept kind of forgetting that the third guy was there and then every time it cut back to the third guy I was like oh right oh there's another dead guy was he just like did he just like hit the cutting room floor unfortunately we don't I don't really know that man shrug but it really sucks what happened to him poor unnamed random mobster dude r.a.p so caesar kills all these people and if he can get rid of the bodies and get the money

back he can pretend like this never happened basically but then the cops show up and violet has to stall them while caesar hides the bodies and cleans up all the blood. Meanwhile, Corky is waiting next door while all of this is happening. She's listening through the walls and just kind of like keeping an ear on things. Then Caesar takes Violet and they go to Johnny's place to find the money, which, of course, he can't because it's not there. So Caesar realizes he has to dump the bodies and run. But then Caesar catches Violet making a call to Corky. And he figures out that she's next door and he realizes that something fishy is going on.

So he goes over and kidnaps Corky. He ties her up she's bound okay just like in the beginning of the movie that's the name of the movie hold on but but also but also it's almost as if Violet and Corky are bound to each other in like a good way so many bites it makes you think yeah so caesar is beating and threatening corky and violet corky reveals that the money is next door in bags hidden in buckets of paint joey buckets of paint one could even say yeah yeah um then Then Caesar has that guy, Mickey, come over so that Caesar can convince him that Gino and Johnny never showed up to buy him some time or something. And then Mickey's about to open the briefcase that is, again, full of newspapers now. But Violet calls Caesar pretending to be Gino, feeding him lines that Gino was in a car accident so basically she like saves

his ass because she is trying to make a deal with him where they split the money and then walk away Mickey leaves to go to the hospital where he thinks Gino is and then Caesar goes next door to get the money leaving Violet a chance to escape so she's running away caesar's chasing after her meanwhile quirky gets loose from her restraints and goes and grabs the money caesar shows back up there's a scuffle between all of them and then violet shoots the shit out of caesar he lands in the paint and now i'm back because it was like it was honestly helpful for you to like talk me through a lot of the the mafia ins and outs of that scene because i've seen this movie three times now and every single time i'm like okay okay okay okay when are

they gonna be back together right like i'm just sort of i register that there are various guys wise guys making various negotiations and shooting and dying and there's risk and there's tension but i'm like okay but or if they died another one right right right and you're like who is the third guy i like i understand that there's filmmaking taking place in front of me, but I am just sort of like, when are our gals going to be reunited? When are the gals going to kiss again? We need the gals to get unbound for me to really feel invested in the movie again. Sure. that we will get there but even the first time watching it i was like okay i'm not going to remember these characters names i know everyone's doing a great job but i need some of these men to die so that i can get to the part that's interesting to me sure sure so we're back we're

back at the part that's interesting to me and then we get the big climax where violet shoots caesar he lands in the paint that's been spilled everywhere his blood is mixing with the paint it's very cathartic it's very metaphorical you're like oh the color oh innocence the color okay this is based on several essays I've read I did not get here on my own oh the color oh higher day oh he's bleeding into her innocence and he never thought and blah. You know, there are many writers who contributed to that intelligent comment I just made. I am not one of them. But it was a metaphor, apparently. This is also how I had to figure out the matrix.

I'm like, there were a lot of metaphors in there that were simply above my pay grade. And then when I read them, I was like, huh, that makes sense. I know the Christ one. And if it goes above the Christ one, I can't. Oh, yeah. If we're not on just a straightforward hero's journey, I am lost in the woods, honey. And I can accept that about myself. And look, not everyone on Reddit is going to like it.

And that's fine. But in this case, in this case, it was like, OK, Wachowski's way smarter than me. I read it. It made sense to me. And I was like, wachowski's way smarter than me i read it it made sense to me and i was like okay i get it metaphor let's get to kissing yes and that's about to happen because violet and corky run off together woohoo corky is like hey you know what the difference is between you and me? And Violet's like, no. And Corky's like, me either. And then they kiss and drive off in Corky's 1963 Chevy truck. The end. And we're like, hold on a second.

Did we just get through a whole crime movie without burying a single gay? Unbelievable. And yet so many bodies so many bodies so many bodies but they're all hetero bodies I just wanted to quickly shout out before we go to our break the uh the tagline on the original poster of this movie, which I think is so beautiful. Sex and crime forever. I mean, literally me shoplifting at CVS on the way to a one night stand. Exactly.

Yes, I get it. I am also a part of this movement. Okay, let's go to break. It's beautiful. Yes, let's take a break. We'll come right back. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now.

The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, The situation is desperate. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions,

like how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100 percent of the shots you never take?

Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I felt too seen, dragged. I fell to a scene. Dragged. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case.

So I basically had what back in the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable. It was just very big, sudden swaps of different meds. What is wrong with me? Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies. On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in. Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of

conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope, the society that created the conditions in the first place will tell you there's something wrong with you. And it will call you a basket case. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we are back. Sex and crime forever. Am I right? I mean, sex and crime forever am i right i mean sex and crime forever right some of our greatest minds have said it i might or some of our greatest minds ad departments have said it i'm gonna get that tattooed on my body okay yes uh where shall we start oh man

there's so much there's so there's so much. There's so much. I'll just start by saying this is one of the horniest, queerest, and most sex-positive movies I've ever seen in my entire life. So have either of you seen Sense8? No, it's on my list. No, I have not. But I haven't gotten to it. Sense8 is basically the Wachowski sisters doing this for several seasons with as many different bodies as possible because they found a way to do, how do I make,

they did a mind orgy. Sounds like them. Sounds like them. Like eight people connecting mentally, all having a mental mind orgy that all not at the same time so wachowski sisters are very very horny but also they love anime they love akira they love ghost in the shell so what you get is this mix of like hyper stylized gleeful sex scenes shot like it's an action movie and like makes me so happy are the two properties in which they're just like everyone should be

fucking this is our message this is our credence everyone should be fucking oh and it works and i do it so well because right this is like this is a very horny movie it's a very queer movie it's a very sex positive movie and it's also about two women being absolute badasses in a way that feels extremely earned in a way that fucking rules in a way that like this is a movie about two queer women one who needs to get out of a toxic situation she's trapped in because of a man and they help each other out and they trust each other and they lift each other up and they run away together and it's a happy uplifting ending and it fucking rocks something i really love about this movie is how much they made manipulation kind of like a one-two punch in these women's tool belts in a way that isn't

usually viewed in a certain type of way in Hollywood and this isn't me going like manipulation good but the thing is when you live on the fringes of society you get very good at one thing and that's looking at society and figuring out how it works and when you don't have any power that's kind of the thing that you learn how to operate with. Like there's always that quote that goes like, oh, well, if the man is the head of the household, the women are the next.

But like they take this thing that was imposed on them and then that's the thing that they free themselves with. And usually when manipulation is for trading women, it's like they're going to be extra punished for this.

Like they're going to be extra hurt for this or like no matter what even if they're escaping something they're still a villain and in this it's like this is a skill that they developed based on the positions that they were put in as like a sex worker and a lesbian they know how society works because they're constantly watching it from outside in and hearing people operate thinking that they're not listening and this is like the knife they cut through that with i it is like i speaking to like what you're it's like they're using societal expect like a an acute knowledge of what society is like because they've been subjected to so much to manipulate like what people expect from them and i feel like in violet that comes and and the fact that the witch house keys use that and also are able to subvert so many specifically film noir tropes in the process of

doing that is so brilliant because it's not just speaking to queer tropes of the 90s, even though so many queer tropes of the 90s and even now are. I sound like a fucking radio station. So many queer tropes of the 90s and today are subverted inside of this movie. But it's also like done within the even more specific, you know, it's like with Violet, you have so many femme fatale tropes that are subverted, while also making commentary on how queer women are perceived or, or femme women specifically are perceived. And then through Corky, you have how butch women are perceived, where immediately when Joey Pants comes in, he does not perceive Corky as the threat to his relationship that she very much is.

And all of these like ways that Corky and Violet are able to turn people's assumptions about them that are based in either, you know, bigotry or naivete or somewhere in between. Yeah. bigotry or naivete or somewhere in between yeah they're able to just levy it against them to get what they want which is essentially liberation from this entire situation and then they win it's just it's awesome yeah and the subversions come from like everywhere because like you even have Corky fucking up at a certain point when it comes to like Violet's sex work and like she gets a little bit like you know sullen about it and implies you know that Violet might like have her like part into her in some way and Violet very much implying like you

have a job and so do I and like you don't get to act holier than thou with me about this right and I love that that moment was even right and i love that that moment was even there and that they had that moment together to where violet could like very safely tell someone like you don't understand what this is about and you're talking out of your ass right now and the fact that quirky is able to like receive that criticism and course correct too because that's something that I feel like if you put that same scenario in a hetero relationship which we don't even need to go down that road really but but just the idea that they have enough respect for each other that when Violet pushes back and

is like no that's not me and you are making assumptions about me that are not correct like Corky listens to that and it does like take her a little bit to internalize it but she internalizes it and then she like begins to see Violet as the fuller person that she is and like the more complicated person that she is and I feel like that kind of goes both ways where there's this trust between them that is established pretty early in the movie that is like, you know, because I mean, even in any relationship, like being able to say to someone like,

I understand why you're making that assumption about me, but you're fucking wrong. And like, listen to me and to have the other person hear you and understand that like that is such a powerful bond in any relationship and to see that like established between the two of them is so awesome and you're like yeah of course I want these two together like yeah this is like a rare example of a movie where it centers on a romantic relationship that i am rooting for and that like i understand what like like trust being such a through line

and when they're on opposite sides of the wall you're just like oh my gosh fuck me up dude like it's just so good and how much of the plan hinges on being like i need to i just have to trust that you're not gonna hurt me yeah right and they do it and then they both in a way that like again is very much a subversion of film noir neo-noir the whole femme fatale thing. I think this movie does something really interesting in that both characters are presented as like, you know, you're familiar with this femme fatale trope. Maybe here's two femme fatales, or maybe you don't know which one's which,

and maybe it's both, but it ends up being neither because neither of them are untrustworthy. Neither of them are like these like scheming seductresses they are like mutually into each other and like not deceiving each other i would argue that like in some ways violet fulfills the femme fatale trope as we know it because she does turn on quote unquote the man she's with she turns on caesar true but like there's a whole like so i feel like it's like 4d chess that we get a treat into here because in some ways as violet is presented she does kind of tick most of the

boxes of the femme fatale trope she is lying to the character who sees her traditionally in a film noir she is robbing him she is she's robbing him she is lying to him she turns on him and she kills him right but unlike every film noir we've seen caesar is not the protagonist and he is not the person we're rooting for exactly and I mean it's like it's not even that we don't totally give a shit when he died because it wasn't like I didn't feel nothing when Caesar died and we can get to this where it's like I feel like Caesar's character addresses film noir and like mafioso masculinity in a way that I thought was pretty effective yeah so it wasn't that I thought was pretty effective. Yeah. So it wasn't

that I felt nothing when he died. But it was just like, from the very beginning, you know, when Caesar's on screen, we're not getting that upright base, baby, like we're not rooting for him. We're rooting for Corky and Violet, and them as individuals and also for their love, which I also feel like is so rare in any movie, like you're rooting for them as individuals and also for their love, which I also feel like is so rare in any movie. Like you're rooting for them as two individuals. And then you're also rooting for them as a couple that really, really works. Yeah, it's all about the framing and how this movie frames things very differently than we're used to in a very cool, refreshing way. We were talking about this scene in which Corky, I feel like, exemplifies an attitude that was very common in the 90s and before and after for a number of years.

The movie doesn't come right out and say it, but it's sort of this idea about like, oh, pick a lane. What is this whole bisexuality thing? If you're having sex with men, you're a traitor. You're not a real lesbian because you're out here having sex with men. Violet immediately challenges that in a way that I found very unexpected

for a character to challenge that mentality in a movie from the 90s and she's like look i know who i am i don't need to have it tattooed on my arm also what i'm doing is work it's just work and this is also one of the very few movies i've seen that makes a statement about sex work being work and just that right because violet's like well i heard you having sex with shelly and she's like that wasn't sex that was me working yeah even the tattoo remark is like yeah i'm femme i'm still a lesbian like which in 1996 like it's in 1996 is like wild. And even in 2022, you still get like that clarity you don't get very often.

Yeah. So there's a scene where Violet gets into Corky's truck. I love any scene in the truck. She gets in. She's like, I want to apologize. And Corky's like, like oh one thing i can't stand is women apologizing for wanting sex and violet's like i'm not apologizing for that i'm not apologizing for what i did because this is like after they like finger bagging each other

um yeah she's like i'm apologizing for what i didn't do. And we're like, woohoo! It's like this incredibly sex positive moment in this movie from 1996. And I kept being so floored by different interactions and different scenarios that happened in this movie because I was like, oh, this is so cool. And we had brought up Susie bright as being the choreographer of the sex scenes in this movie. So the way that kind of panned out is that the Wachowski sisters sent Susie

bright the script and was basically like, we want you to play a cameo in this or like be an extra in this. Are you interested? And Susie bright loved the script partly because it was about women who just like were extremely unapologetic about having sex and enjoying sex specifically with each other. But she was like, but there isn't enough like description in these sex scenes.

Like I can't visualize what they would look like. So then she offered to be the like consultant for the film and then they hired her to like be the choreographer and she's like a was already like a feminist sex educator so she got brought on to choreograph the sex scenes which is why they are extremely horny but also like very tasteful and like non-exploitative which is something that we've come upon in various sex scenes between women like blue is the warmest color exactly yes and it's like, I mean, in general, even the concept of an intimacy consultant in a romance scene between any people in 1996 was just like not something that was done. And I feel like we've covered on this show, unfortunately, so many at least extreme actor discomfort and worst like crimes and like crimes and misdemeanors uh sex and crime

but not forever don't do it but yeah right of actors who were made to feel very uncomfortable in sex scenes in movies because you know any director of intimacy was not appointed in order to make the movie and so the fact that like the Wachowskis had a not just an intimacy coordinator but someone who is very enthusiastic about their work someone who was like really down to be involved like again just a very ahead of its time like even 10 years ago if you asked me about what an intimacy coordinator was, I could not tell you. I would not have known. Yeah. And like even on my end, I've done like a few sketches and things where I like have a piece of comedy where I'm like making out with someone or I have like a simulated sex scene.

And it's comedy. It's like being played for comedy. hominy but even then I have somebody like touching me in a way that I'm like not used to because in general I'm like even like I hug you if I know you so I tend to keep like an arms reach kind of person and there's this like assumed comfort that's supposed to be there and when there isn't there isn't really that like nobody really has the words for like yo can we like slow this down and talk about how we're about to make out it's weird like and it's one of those where you don't even really think about it in like a comedy aspect until you're in it and you're like why isn't there something for all of this like even if it wasn't sex just having somebody like up on me

it would just be really nice to like be able to talk about this with someone and when you read there's this incredible interview where Gina Gershon and Jennifer Tilly are talking years later and they're like verbally pawing at each other it's fantastic highly recommend reading at it but they talk about that sex scene and they're like shooting with the Wachowskis in that moment it was more like sports than sex they were like zero percent felt like sex because they were moving around us being like uh boob up here hand here move this way shift this way up towards the light please like they're like it was so it was like a bop it clinical yes they were like choreographed almost like it was a fight scene to the point where they were like we were working

like there was nothing horny about it we were just at work following these like directions with like a team that had making sure it looked good and our well-beings in mind and you would never know that like watching it because it's so horny yeah like it it it really is like just i feel and and and it was so nice to read interviews with the actors at the time and years later speaking to how comfortable they were because as far as we know i mean these are two straight women i haven't read otherwise i don't want to put them in a box but that's what I you know what I know of them and and for you know actors to be acting you know technically outside of their comfort zone in a way that they were made to feel safe and it's authentic and there was a consultant involved and the consultant involved happens to be an iconic feminist socialist. Like, I just don't know what I would be more on board

with. Right? Yeah. Susie Bright. So cool. And she also has a really fun cameo in the movie as well. Yes. That incredible bar. Yes. Like she and she and I feel like she really owned the part too. I would not have guessed that. Yeah, she was not a uh not an actor by trade I was like oh you're a genius by trade you're an actor on the side good for you so shout out to Susie Bright and yeah that was just like generally so awesome there was one thing I wanted to touch on before we totally went out of film noir where I was curious what the two of you thought about this but I felt like in the world of film noir Jennifer Tilly is playing on the trope of femme fatale and it almost seems like Corky is playing on the trope of detective I feel

like we're given a few different indications that that might be the case. First of all, because she's constantly listening through walls. She has a unique trade that causes her to show up places constantly. She picks locks. She picks locks. She has a criminal background. We know that she has been, you know, in prison for five years prior to the movie beginning. For, quote, the redistribution of wealth right and you're like okay suzy bright i see you in there yeah and then on top of that there's also it felt very film noir-y that she had had like a partner slash lover who had burned

her in the past like it all felt very quirky as playing on who we would traditionally see as the film noir protagonist oh yeah played on in her character it's so much gina gershon's intention as well it's so much what gina gershon wanted to bring to that character because i'm not sure if you'll know this but but Gina Gershon fired her management team because they didn't want her to do this movie. I did not know that. Whoa. That's amazing. Her agents were like, do not do this movie.

It will tank. You will never work again. And she was like, I will never get another part like this. I will never get another part like this. Because she read it and she was like, this is my chance to watch a bunch of marlon brando to watch a bunch of james dean i think she said clint eastwood was her other one and she watched like every brooding mysterious leading man movie and was like i'm just doing that and before sex scenes she would just do push-ups to try and like make her arms look as ripped as possible or like anything worked baby

she would like just start like working out right before that because she wanted like her forearms to look super muscly like she saw this script and was like i will never have an opportunity to be the hot leading guy ever again oh i love that and she's right like parts for women especially this era, were rarely the protagonist or co-protagonist of the movie. They were rarely this badass or nuanced or thoughtfully written. And it's wild because there were very few female actors interested in these two characters of Violet and Corky. Yeah. Seemingly because they're queer characters.

And it's very, I don't know who was up for the part except for linda hamilton was originally considered and then another beauty and the beast crossover but um yeah i don't i can't remember what i read about why she didn't end up playing quirky but i think it was more logistical yeah it was not like it wasn't like a moral objection kind of thing right right right but um yeah it was it was not like it wasn't like a moral objection kind of thing right right but um yeah it was it was not that many people interested in these roles but yeah gina gershon jumped at the chance to be in this movie and i'm so glad she did because i freaking love her as quirky i have a good quote from jennifer tilly to this effect yes um where she was talking about

sort of exactly what you're talking about how she was aware that many actors had refused these parts and was like kind of confused at it and i think jennifer tilly's like history prior to this movie is also relevant to this because kind of what you were saying vanessa where it was like you know know Gina Gershon was well aware that like parts like this don't come around every day for anybody yeah especially women where it's like you get to be the fucking film noir action hero that also gets to kiss and fuck like are you kidding me where Jennifer Tilly had been very successful up to this point but she'd been super typecast as kind of like an airhead kind of character yeah a lot because of her voice and so it was like this was her opportunity to play you know to I mean and she had been I think she'd been like nominated for and possibly won an Oscar

which or no she was nominated for an Oscar in 1994 so like she was a proven actress but was typecast quite a bit because of how she looked and how she sounded so she said this when she was cast in bound she said after i got the part the witch house he said to me you would not believe how many actresses refused to come in and read for this i was really surprised at that because actresses in hollywood are always bishing and moaning about how there are no great parts for women and here's two really strong female roles to me it just seemed silly and then she goes on to say i mean and this is very 90s but when she found out that she was playing a bi woman she started reading out magazine sure um oh jennifer i know uh we love her and then she said, one of my pet peeves about mainstream films where they have a gay relationship

is that people think they're being amazingly liberal. They say, well, we'll have these gay characters, but they can't touch. They can't show any affection or kiss each other or have any sex scenes like they would just naturally with a heterosexual relationship. I just feel like that's a cop out. We felt it was very important not to shy away from it and to be very matter-of-fact about it. That's what's cool about the film. I love that.

I know. She said that in the damn 90s. An icon. Let's take another quick break and we will come right back. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia.

I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. New podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job?

Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Santer. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to

thrive in the early years of your career. Without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I felt too seen. Dragged. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. So I basically had what back in the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable.

It was just very big, sudden swaps of different meds. What is wrong with me? Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies. On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in. Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope, the society that created the conditions in the first place will tell you there's something wrong with you. And it will call you a basket case. Listen to Basket Case

every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. And I wanted to talk about the story's conception. The Wowskis this is from an interview i think shortly after the movie was made or released but um they were just speaking to how there weren't enough good female parts in movies in hollywood so they decided to write two good female parts and they also spoke to how they wanted to write a film noir with a woman as the protagonist and have a sexy woman but have her not be evil i'm paraphrasing this interview but their intention with this movie was like let's subvert film noir tropes let's make a point to like meaningfully include women in the story as protagonists and like

have them drive the narrative not surprisingly studio executives read the script and they were like um we'd be interested in this if Corky was a man if you like change that character to be a man and the Wachowskis were like no that movie already exists a million times so we're not interested in doing that right pass and the rest is history the rest is history it's the best yeah so good it brings me such joy i've never on every rewatch I keep finding a new reason that it makes me so happy whether it be like the cinematography the storytelling the crazy camera on screen but that really is just like a fantastic neo-noir it's just a really like it's it's so obvious that their inspiration was Sin City but they made something better than sin city because frank miller's brain isn't behind it right exactly uh so many things i love i love

the scene where it's toward the end caesar is suggesting that quirky and her like lesbian feminine wiles corrupted violet he's like what did she do to you and violet is like everything you couldn't aka make her come come yeah and like and treat her well oh my god the fact that she shakes his hand with violet all over her fingers i screamed the first time I saw that yeah it's very special everything about this movie is very special um I wanted to also talk about a little bit about how Caesar's character does kind of challenge a lot of I mean not quite as like film noir tropey but in general just like mafia masculinity and just like intense like tank top masculinity kind of vibes where we constantly see that I don't even doubt that Caesar cares about Violet I do think he does yeah but he is so like trapped in so many things he's like trapped

within masculinity but he's also trapped within his profession he's trapped within his class he's trapped in like all these different things that result in him mistreating her spectacularly and he doesn't I don't know I feel I feel like it's we've talked about this a million times on this show where it's like patriarchy as one guy right and then if you get i mean this is like most marvel movies where you're like yeah patriarchy is one guy and if you kill the one guy or if you teach the one guy that he was wrong the whole time then everything's fixed right right it's like how oh my god it's this is a separate gripe but it's like how benedict cumberbatch is wandering around the most recent dr strange movie like america like and i couldn't stop laughing

that is the name of a character in the movie but it's also the worst metaphor I've ever heard in my life he's like we have to save America I know it's canon but it's silly anyways but in this case there's a lot more I think like thought portrayed in how like Caesar is trying to you know enact his masculinity over Violet but she is not accepting it which which is huge in itself. And also, like he is desperate. We see him desperate in so many places to the point where he sort of starts to dissociate from the situation and becomes violent because he's in such a desperate place. He's not the center of attention here by any means nor should he be but i thought joey pants did a good job at kind of demonstrating that desperate masculinity of like he just needs to have control over something or someone and so when he feels that Violet is the most viable person to be controlled, he will treat her very badly.

Oh, yeah. When he feels comfortable within his profession, his masculinity, his finances, everything else, he will treat her fine. And I feel like that is something that you like. You don't often see like shown this clearly in a character because this feels more like a guy that even though it's a joey pants character to its core it also feels sort of like a guy that you would know where in some circumstances when he's comfortable he'll be the nicest guy in the world but when he's when there's a little bit of pressure put on him he becomes a fucking monster it's a compelling character to watch for all of those reasons and that like you're literally watching somebody get get that

like squeeze of being in a prison of their own making like yeah every horrible thing that happens to him he's asking who did it and the answer is him every single time yeah like nothing happens to him is really done by it's him yeah like violet nudges him in that direction but it is always him it's because she knows he's gonna be a shithead and he plays into it that scene where he's like you made me shoot them you made me shoot my mob boss and Christopher Maloney. And she's like, I didn't make you do that at all. What are you talking about? I did not make you shoot SVU, babe. I didn't.

God. Look, we don't have time for SVU today. That's another day. But shout out to my role as an extra in an episode of, I think, season 10 of Law & Order SVU. Really? Yeah. You've never told that story on the show? Oh, my gosh.

Well, I'll figure out what episode it is. And then I will put it in the description of the episode because I do walk past the camera multiple times. Was this a Boston thing? Wait, I'm starting to remember. It was when I lived in new york they were shooting on a very narrow street and there was a take where the like the sidewalk was so narrow that i accidentally like shoulder checked mariska hargitay when i was walking past her for some reason they didn't use that take rude but what but um yeah that's do you remember not to play into a confaganda what was the crime of the week um okay it was about a woman who escapes from having been like trapped in a room a la the movie

room sure so then she's like trying to retrace her steps with christopher maloney and mariska hargitay i don't know the character's names and then it turns out she might be lying about this but it's that was the premise of the episode anyway does that let's go get back to bound because those are my 15 minutes of fame and they're up now well please screenshot we I I will take the lead on screenshotting if need be so yeah I I liked something I like to find out about the production of this movie is that it was financed through very, like kind of surprisingly traditional means

for a movie that spotlights a queer couple. It was financed by Dino De Laurentiis, who is like a famous Italian filmmaker, very, very famous, not necessarily the guy that you would expect to be financing a queer movie, definitely the guy you would expect to be financing a mafia movie.

So maybe the Wachowskis just really gamed the system and also spelling films, Aaron spelling like huge name in 80s and 90s TV production that you also wouldn't expect such uh and with all due respect to spelling industries because i've consumed much of your content but you know not known for the um not known for the for intellect or taste perhaps and so i thought it was cool that two such mainstream institutions financed such a subversive,

but also, I mean, like we've been saying this whole time, it makes sense that you would want to finance such an effective noir movie. And this was also, I feel like the 90s and the early 2000s, there was kind of a good moment for neo-noir. And so I'm glad that this came when it did. You saw it in so many different mediums but almost every single time it was and here's the thing i even like liked iterations of this and as i grow older i re-examine it and i'm like ouch that hurts uh where it almost always starts with

like a dead girlfriend or a dead dame or like some woman that we never meet that's dead before she's even like on screen right and in this case even the off-screen woman is like some asshole that's richer like right she's not fucked me over yep yeah like we didn't need to fridge anyone for the plot to begin we didn't need to like there there's just so many very obvious noir tropes that are not included in this movie and it's so well written and also like i mean we don't often talk about like a ton of visual choices on this show but it's also just really cool to see the wachowskis in their bag pre-matrix where like the action scenes i don't care about any of the characters in the mafia shooting scenes but they look fucking awesome

and it looks like a wachowskis action scene and it's very exciting to see yeah and so like i don't know where i was uh i don't know no you're right anyways I like when you see the close-up of the barrel of the gun and then you see the bullet come out question mark pretty cool if you ask me absolutely gorgeous like it's so much of their background being graphic novels that they were like we think of things as like scene by scene and not point a to b they're like we need to tell as much as we can in as little frame as possible, which is obviously why like neo-noir attracts them because like it's just a marriage

of like that in comic books. Right. And also this is the same cinematographer who would go on to do the Matrix original trilogy. I don't know if they did. And Clueless. And Clueless. Bill Pope, how dare you?

Sir, how dare you? Be so versatile and yet so talented. Wow, Clueless and Bound. No, wait. Blank check, Clueless, Bound. Back to back to back. What a, what range. Incredible.

Also did Bedazzled, a movie we did not like on this show not his also did spider-man 2 okay and i'm back he's worked with alfred melina yeah he did spider-man 2 and 3 army of darkness oh so he works with sam raimi a lot then yes he works with sam raimi he did scott pilgrim versus the The World. Wait, I'm becoming a full-on fan of this person. Bill Pope is up there with Roger Deakins. Oh my god.

Look, we famously don't know anything about cinematography and I remember like, I know who Roger Deakins is though. Bill Cundy is the one I was trying to remember. He is Dress Park, Halloween. If anything's ever looked like gorgeous deaconses though bill cundy is the one i was trying to remember he is dress park halloween if anything's ever looked like gorgeous and interesting it's either dean cundy or bill pope like you can just kind of look at something and know who it is because you're like oh this is sexy

like this is this is a monolithic image okay it's either dean cundy or bill pope i love how kayla and i were both like roger deacons because one time we got fucking we got like rightfully schooled by hunter harris in public in new york and neither of us had any idea who hunter deacons was uh or hunter oh my god roger deacons okay hunter deacons maybe in the future i don't know someday he's very old does anyone have any other thoughts about bound i think i would just uh end with maybe my favorite quote from that interview that i beg everyone to read it's gina and jennifer just like talking about some of the behind the scenes choices that they made but also they're kind of low-key like hitting on each other the entire time nice this was like i think like

five years ago and it's a lot of like the interview being like gina continues to stare at jennifer not answering my question and then just says something like i loved playing with her boobs um it's a fantastic interview we'll link it we'll link it in the description as well so jennifer would tell gina things like hey when we're shooting this scene can you put my hand here so my cellulite doesn't show also when this happens hold my boob up like this so it looks plumper and perkier and so she basically like between takes i guess they were just constantly like a laughing and b using each other as human sphinx i love that that's trust that is beautiful trust and the fact that suzy bright was also like involved in the choreographing of the scene i just

i love it so much and the fact that they were honest about it in interviews oh my god i would lie my ass off good for them yeah they're they're also two of the hottest people on the planet so you know oh yeah all with a grain of salt yeah i think that that's all i had too i just what a what a fun movie if you haven't seen it it is streaming on amazon prime as we record this at least hopefully it stays streaming in a widely available way soon. Yeah. But, you know, run, don't walk. It fucking rocks. Truly. Yeah.

The movie obviously does pass the Bechdel test, mostly between Corky and Violet. But I would say one of my favorite exchanges that pass is when Corky goes into the bar toward the beginning and says, how are you doing? Sue to Sue the bartender. And Sue the bartender says, like shit. Pause. Well, now that we're all caught up, can I buy you a drink? And then they go on to talk about Corky's job.

Corky says, I'm just here to get laid dot dot dot by a woman because they're in a lesbian bar. The whole exchange passes the test as does many if not most of the exchanges between Corky and Violet. So you love to see

it. You do love to see it and it makes you smile and it makes you horny and what more can you ask for from a movie definitely passes the back to the test however what about the most important metric on the face of the fucking planet oh you mean our nipple scale in which we rate a movie zero to five nipples based on how it does when you look at it through an intersectional feminist lens is that what you're referring to jane um yes yeah me too um i would i would give this movie honestly freaking five nipples like is there a reason not to it mean, it's a pretty, like, it's a white movie, I think, that warrants saying.

I'm pretty solidly five nipples. I feel like five nipples does work. Like, I don't really. Yeah, it kind of has to be five nipples. It kind of has to be. There's really no way around it. Right. It challenges so much.

It subverts so much. It presents these characters in very nuanced ways. The harmful tropes that we had been seeing in film up to that point and continue to see for years and years after that. It's like, let's instead have horny women be horny for each other in a very sex positive and non exploitative way. Let's have them be driving the narrative. Let's have them be able to like do shit and have skills and fix things and plan things. And I just love that like Corky corky she's the planner she's the thief that's her skill set meanwhile violet is like a very good performer she's good at acting she's good at making people believe like the way she also has like the critical knowledge like she

knows how the mafia works right yeah yeah she knows who's weak to what, who's insecure to what. Like, who could she play like a fiddle? Because she's constantly at a front row seat to their most intimate behaviors. Right. Right. Like the plan wouldn't work without both of their specific skill sets. And without any like Mary Sue nonsense needing to take place like but they the two of them need to be working together with trust in order for the plan to work and it's because they

do that that it works and then they get to drive away in the truck I love it there's a specific scene that like illustrates that like it's it's Bill Pope and the Wachowskis being like we are making it obvious that they are like equal contenders. And when they're getting ready for the heist and like Gina is putting the lock picking kit in her ear and Jennifer Tilly is putting on lipstick. And like she's loading her gun and Jennifer Tilly is like zipping her dress up. Like they both have very specific tools that they're bringing to the table that they cannot survive without oh and that my friends is show don't tell that's a screenwriting tip for everyone out there i really i really love it everyone's firing on i just now knowing that

bill pope was coming off of clueless i like to think that he was just cracking his knuckles before every shot being like, not to worry. I just shot Clueless. I got this. If I had just shot Clueless, I would not shut up about it. That's for damn sure. And the Wachowski sisters are like, don't worry, we're about to direct The Matrix. And everyone's like, holy shit. What are you talking about

what is that yes so i'm giving this movie five nipples i can't wait to re-watch it this movie should be in more like film school curriculums for all the fucking classes that are like we're a neo like this is a neo-noir class like why aren't you watching bound this movie rules five nipples and i will give two to quirky two to violet and one to sue the bartender i'm gonna go five as well i think that this movie is going to enter the elite jamie tier of movies i would fall asleep to which is the highest compliment in the entire world it just means I feel safe with this movie this movie makes me feel held I want to be with this movie multiple times a month and I want to know every single word of it subconsciously okay

like I do feel like it's it sounds like an insult but it's like no the shows I'm laughing because that's what I do right like it's like shows and movies that you're like they don't necessarily need to be like calm you just need to feel safe with them yeah I do this with the thing bound the thing like I have certain movies that just make me so happy or like army of darkness is another one that if I like throw it on and I'm home alone, I feel like I have a guardian angel. Right. Like you're like if I woke up in the middle of the night and this was playing, if Bound was on and I woke up. I'm okay.

Yeah. You're like, okay, things can't be that bad. Bound is on. So I really am so happy to have this movie in my life now I think we've kind of said it all at this point I'm very excited to hear our listeners perspectives on this movie as well so five nipples two to Violet two to Corky and let's say one to the truck one truck in a way a character yeah Vanessa what do you say I say uh you know the difference between uh me and you both are no I don't know either oh so romantic so five nipples then across the board wow what a rare accomplishment this is for a movie to get

five nipples across the board on the bechdel cast so incredible shout out to bound shout out to the wachowski sisters shout out to us all god bless us everyone what am i saying it's very late where I am okay tiny Tim thank you she literally pulled out the tiny Tim card at the end of the bound episode you never know what you're gonna get it's Caitlin Durante and that's and that's that's how we keep things fresh in this relationship she could become tiny Tim at any moment you're welcome Vanessa thank you so much for coming back for a fourth time. We'll have you back for a fifth time so that we can give you our special fifth appearance gift that we have yet to actually give to anyone, but it's a smoking jacket. I'm so excited.

It's a Letterman jacket. But tell us where people can check out your stuff follow you on social media anything like that um yeah you can find me on twitter as n-e-s-s guerrero that's nes guerrero and s-n-e-s guerrero on instagram i know that makes it harder for people to find me that they're not the same. And that's on purpose. Keep like a steady, smaller trickle. And then you can find me every Wednesday on a show that I produce called Vibe Check on G4. And then I have a podcast called Kicking and Screaming that's been on hiatus for a little bit because I've honestly just been really, really tired. And it's coming back soon. and i've been missing talking about

movies so i'm very excited about it you can find that under kick screen pod yay love it oh my gosh thank you so much for coming back for this modern classic thank you for having me you can find us in all the usual places you can find us on instagram or twitter at bechtelcast. You can follow us on our Patreon, aka Matreon, at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast, where every month we cover, we cover? We cover. We are bound to cover. We are bound.

We are bound and, in fact, tethered to our Matreon community. And it's a gift. Of course. Where we cover two additional movies every single month this month our theme is bravely i know what you did last mid-somar and you won't believe the two movies we chose to cover so that's five bucks a month you get two bonus episodes a month and a backlog of over a hundred episodes and you can uh get merch at tpublic.com slash the Bechtel cast. Imagine that.

And with that said, I've got the truck running. Should we get out of here? The whole mafia is dead. We should probably get out of here. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, we gotta go. Bye-bye. Bye.

Bye-bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, into a mafia state. host of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation

expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. South loves. The Biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? It's right here in black and white in print. It's bigger than a flag or mascot. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.