The Bechdel Cast - Cats with Katie Goldin

Episode Date: January 16, 2020

Jellicle cats Jamie and Caitlin invite special cat Katie Goldin to discuss the representation of cats in the movie Cats (2019). Plus some cat takes from friend of the 'cast Danielle Radford!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @KatieGoldin on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me? A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology.

Swaps of different meds. But by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane, what we can do about it, and why we should care. Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In California during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before, tried to assassinate the President of the United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson. 26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer, this season on the new podcast, Rip Current.

Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus only on Apple Podcasts. On the Bechdel cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism?

The patriarchy's effin' vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. And they all said, oh, well, never was there ever a pod so clever as the Bechdel cast. Do-do-do-do-do. Wow. No, Judi Dench. Oh, no. Well well here we are this is welcome to the vectal cast or is it the vectal cats

so we're talking about cats 2019 the famously 2019, the famously bad Tom Hooper joint. Tom Hooper, don't listen to her. We liked it. This actually works out great, Caitlin, because you've been waiting for a movie like this to come along for so long. What do you mean? The cat facts. The cat fact.

With Caitlin. What? The cat facts. Cat facts? i don't know what you mean what's well i've never heard this before what are you talking about okay you may not know but uh have i ever said something about the same fact every time that's the joke she does the same fact every time i don't think so i've never said this i've never said this before i think hundreds of times at this point i would remember that okay guys i'm joking oh my god

but yes you're right um the most important cat fact in the world is that cats have eight nipples and that's cat facts with caitlin you'd love to hear it it's music to my ears um my name is jamie laughtis my name's cats catlin catlin dorante i'm jamie no or jay meow jay meow meow oh we don't have to be thrilled about that, but it's true. This is the Bechdelcast. This is our movie podcast about the portrayal of women in film. Yes. For this episode, it'll be about the portrayal of female coded cats. The cats gender each other.

I mean, we just have to kind of take the cat's words for it. Right. We don't see any junk to jason derulo's dismay true hailing i went to a holiday party at madame tussauds which first of all i don't even think that's a brag i think that that's just kind of unfortunate um but i and jason derulo has a prominently displayed wax figure and he they do not take his bulge out at the wax museum it's there it's to the left and oh and his wax figure is mid-jump i don't know what he's jumping towards i don't know what it's a reference to he's jumping towards his role in cats jason derulo is famously obsessed with his

own penis and it really it really comes alive at the madame tauds. So that's a paid advertisement for Madame Tussauds in Hollywood. You got to check it out. Jason Derulo's dick is huge there. Okie dokie. All righty. And that did not pass the Bechdel test. But why? What is the Bechdel test?

Well, gee whiz. I'm glad you asked. It is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test, in which two female identifying characters or cat-tictors. Cat-tictors. No, you're right. You're right. They must have jellicle names and they must meow to each other about something. And it can't be about rum tum tugger or gus the theater cat or

mr mustafali even if you want to talk and and it can't even be about skimble shanks right and most movies can't get through a conversation without bringing up skimble shanks the railway it's a it's a huge problem facing hollywood today i don't know if it's internalized misogyny but skimble shanks is my top cat i know i know the optics are bad but uh skimble shanks the railway cat i can't resist him i've seen the movie now in theaters three times same yeah together once Together at once. The second time I saw it was with a big group of mostly comedians. And one of them was friend of the cast, Danielle Radford.

Friend of the cats. I'm so sorry. Friend of the cats. She was our guest on the Fifth Element episode. Yes. And I just wanted her to share her takes on the film Cats. So we recorded a little, just a little sound clip from her. Just a little side.

And let's play that now. I'm here with Danielle Radford. She was our guest on the Fifth Element episode. And we just saw Cats together. And here are Danielle's takes. Fifth Element episode and we just saw cats together and here are Danielle's takes. First of all, this has now

made it into my top five bad movies. I love it so much. I did cry. I laughed at all the wrong parts. A. All of these actors deserve better. B. That aggressive gray cat who thinks he's in charge needs to stop coming at me so much. Judi Dench looks like uh looks like the cowardly lion and i cannot unsee it um francesca the ballet was great but why did

they sweeten her audio and they didn't sweeten taytay's audio um i have a conspiracy theory i will not announce it um oh my god what else um cats is literally, I'm going to watch this every Christmas. This is going to be my Christmas story. Oh, also, I didn't believe it was going to be as horny as it was. It was so, so, so horny. Like literally, it's a shame that they had to like Photoshop out all the dicks because Victoria was looking for a dick. A dick.

A dick. Like Mr. Mistoffele a dick. A dick. A dick. Like Mr. Mistoffelees dick especially. Yeah. They were really vibing. I did. I cried a whole bunch. And I laughed a whole bunch. Because it's really ridiculous.

This is one of those movies where in every bad movie there is one actor who knows what movie they're in exactly. Idris Elba knows exactly what movie he's in. He knows exactly. There's one point where he just goes, Macafity, and then disappears. Or the one where he goes, Meow. He knows what movies he's in,

and he's having the greatest of times. And God bless him, and God bless America. Also, Tay-Tay, you didn't have to do that accent, baby. Oh, yeah. That song's actually not really done in an accent and you don't have to do that. And also, there's just like way too

many members of like, there's like dames and sirs in this. Just every, this entire cast deserve better and they all acted, Jennifer Hudson acted her ass off in this and like she clearly goes to the Viola Davis school of acting where it's just fucking snot running down your face and I get it um but also like no one told oh who told you to act this hard and and the disappearing and reappearing of shoes on people and the

disappearing reappearing hands i think we saw the cut before they sweetened it um and fixed it and i'm so glad we did and i think those are my takes i could literally talk about cats for an hour and i probably will when screen junkies comes back from break yay thank you danielle um okay thanks thanks danielle danielle a friend of the cast and a friend of the cats. Indeed, indeed. An icon. Well, let's get into it. Our guest today, she is an animal expert.

She is ProBirdWrites on Twitter. She's host of Creature Feature Podcast. It's Katie Golden. Hey there, you guys. Coming into 2019 hard.'ve got uh i got a cold i watched 2020 oh damn it yeah coming see see what i mean i'm coming into 2020 so hard i just jumped back a whole year yeah so um for those of you who don't know me, my voice doesn't normally sound so beautifully low and gritty like an action hero. I'm a little bit.

It's husky. I like it. It's husky. It's really nice. I actually like it better than my normal voice because now I can say things like, darling, that just is not working for you. And I spent my time being sick by watching cats. Thank you for your sacrifice. Thinking about them and the detail on their hairy bodies. Before we really jump into it, gals, which cat do you most identify with? You know, Jamie, that's a really good question.

I think it's something that we all have to confront. It's the sex in the city quiz of our age. Which cat from Cats are you? I feel like I'm exposition cat. Oh, you're the one that no one knows because you're like, what is his name? He talks so much, but I don't know what his name is. He talks a lot, but he doesn't even,

like every cat gets an introduction song except for him. I can see who's that guy, yeah. Yeah. I'm the cat that cannot be ignored. I'm a Skimble Shanks. I love Skimble. He's my favorite part. I've been listening to the soundtrack.

I like that he has these tight, tight, impossibly tight overalls. I love it. Because they had a chance to not show us one of the male cat's packages and they're like, you know what, no, we're going to do the brave choice and give him skin tight overalls. Which is weird because they deny

Derulo, but then they give it to Skimble? Do we see his bulge through the pants? We can see a little bit. And also his butt is just like two eggs and a handkerchief. Two eggs and a handkerchief. That will haunt me until I die.

Thank you so much. You're welcome. You can kind of tell this movie is made up of famous people and professional ballerinas. And the divide, whenever you don't know who it is it's a famous ballet dancer yeah basically or dancer in general because skimble is a dancer he's a tap boy he's a he's a he's a he's a tapper um and then you've got francesca hayward who's like one of the main dancers a principal dancer in the royal ballet in l And then, yeah, whenever you don't know who it is, it's just it's a it's a European dancer. That's just it's just the rule. Sure. Except for Mr. Mistoffelees.

He's just some guy that I think is hot. And he spent half of the movie near tears, which I thought was an honorable acting job, but also kind of like it really also represented the audience i felt like he was sort of the you know the what is it like when you're it's like the self-insert character oh just like the the avatar that you're putting and i know where it's that's supposed to be victoria the cat because she has no personality but i most i guess that's the cat i most identified with is because he was near tears the whole time. Mr. Mistoffelees? Yeah. Mr. Mistoffelees.

Yeah. And he has a good, I want to make my cat a jacket like that. Oh, that's a good jacket. He's got a good jacket. I would actually kind of like that jacket for myself. Do it. He's got one of my favorite songs. I think that's my favorite song.

Which one is, is that my career is? Oh, never was I ever. I got so clever as magic rum tum tugger is also up there in terms of i mean he's a curious cat i would say that in in general to get into the gender discussion right off the bat the songs are generally better for the male cats or that that's subjective and of course jennifer hudson gets memory the classic true but i i think that that's like the only for me well we don't we hardly get to know any female cats at all most there's jenny any dots there's jenny and there's victoria who like i think okay well i guess if

we're breaking it down the the male cats that we get to know are Bustopher Jones Rum Tum Tugger. He's a curious cat. And male cats, by the way, here's my animal knowledge chiming in here. Male cats are called Toms. Toms, okay. And un-neutered female cats are called Queens. I love it.

Sorry, not un-neutered, sorry. Un-neutered is males. Un-spayed is females. Oh, got it. Okay. So would you say you have some cat facts then? Those are your Sorry, not unneutered, sorry. Unneutered is males, unspayed is females. Oh, got it. Okay, so would you say you have some cat facts then? Those are your cat facts? Well, that's it though.

Those are the only cat facts you get. If you have any questions about the accuracy of the cats in the movie, yeah. Should cats be wearing suits and have human penis bulges? Well... Just in your professional opinion. Human penis bulges well just in your professional opinion human penis bulges well no i mean the problem with the penis bulges is they're not barbed enough like they're not spiky enough that's the problem is that if you're gonna so the cat's penis is sheathed normally so that's why you don't see cats bounding around with big floppy wieners hanging out their teeth um and that means they they're a sort of retractable thing and but once when the cat penis is unsheathed when they have

drawn their penis as for a duel um draw my penis like one of your french girls you draw my penis like one of your french girls and um it is covered in little barbs. And they're very weird looking. They're kind of cool. And the cat mating thing is a whole trip. I don't know how detailed you want. I mean, we'll get to it. Yeah, we can get into that later. But just for the breakdown of how many male songs versus female,

James Corden gets a song. Jason Derulo gets a song. Idris Elba does not get his own song. Macavity doesn't get his own song. I would say that that's more Taylor Swift's song. Ian McKellen gets his own song. That's three. Mr. Mistoffelees gets his own song. Munkustrap who is the exposition

cat. And then Skimbleshanks the real guy. We're up to six. We've got Mungo Jerry shares a song with rumple teaser right uh they're the most boring cats famously and there's growl tiger who gets a short and bad song oh is he the barge cat yeah he's the he's the boat cat uh so we got we got eight male cat songs and then for the female cats we got judy dench has a song jennifer hudson of course has a song that she sings arguably 500

times yes taylor swift has a song francesca hayward who's victoria has a song and then you have rumble teaser gets the other so it's like it's rumble teaser gets point half of us off yeah so it's seven and a half male four and a half female okay yeah so not it's not parody oh oh did i say rebel wilson i did say rebels oh i don't know if you did oh so maybe it's five sorry judy dench jennifer hudson taylor swift rebel wilson francesca hay so five and a half versus seven and a half okay it's basically like a real world um income disparity right right right anyways here's the thing is they played around with gender a little bit by making old old dude Judy Dench. Isn't old dude typically a male in the Broadway productions? The role of Old Deuteronomy was first played, I believe, by Brian Blessed or Blessed or

Blessed, some pronunciation. And that was in the West End in the early 80s. Then the character was played by Ken Page on Broadway in 1982, and then also played by an actor named Quentin Earl Darrington when the Broadway production was revived in 2016. So it seems like historically, Deuteronomy has been played by mostly male actors. And we can touch more on that a little later on. We need to take a break. We need to take a little cat nap, but then we'll be right back. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist

who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeartTrue Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. This summer, the nation watched as the Republican nominee for president was the target of two assassination attempts, separated by two months.

These events were mirrored nearly 50 years ago when President Gerald Ford faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the

protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent revolutionary underground. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current, available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Substance use disorder and addiction is so isolating. And so as a Black woman in recovery, hope must be loud. It grows louder when you ask for help and you're vulnerable. It is the thread that lets you know that no matter what happens, you will be okay. When we learn the power of hope, recovery is possible.

Find out how at StartWithHope.com. Brought to you by the National Council for Mental Well-being shatterproof and the ad council now it's time for the recap or is it the recat it's the recats the recats the recats of the recats of the cats movie here we go to say this property has a story is uh being generous but i will do my best i think it's like more of a like it just it's more of a listicle than it is a plot kind of ahead of its time in that regard true uh buzzfeed whom cats is a listicle uh-huh 10 okay what would you call if cats were a listicle what would you call it? Oh my gosh. These 10 cats. 10 essential cats for.

10 cats that will make you scream yes. For a disease, eight will scare you. All right, because you have to have that clickbait in there. Yeah, number eight will shock you. And that's Idris Elba when he gets naked cat. I just retweeted a tweet from at the Patrick Walsh that I thought was really funny. He said that not sure why cats didn't work

it follows a classic three act structure act one cats introduce themselves act two cats continue to introduce themselves act three unclear which just about sums up the story But I will do There's definitely movies that are worse offenders

Of continuing to introduce characters Like two thirds into the movie I mean, well sometimes that makes sense for the story With Catch Chumanji Nick Jonas shows up late But that's a twist That's a twist, That's a twist.

That's an important reveal. I think the Skimble Shanks is an important reveal. I know that after he's turned into dust, we never really see him again. No. Poor Skimby. Skimble. Okay. Here's the recats. Recaps.

A cat gets abandoned by a mean human and dumped onto the mean streets of London. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Jump in with some music to let people know where we are. Thank you so much. Then a bunch of other cats approach her. We find out her name is Victoria eventually. And they're all singing about Jellicle cats. That's who they are.

That's the club. That is who they are. They're in the Jellicle cat club. What is a Jellicle cats. That's who they are. That's the club. That is who they are. They're in the Jellicle cat club. What is a Jellicle cat? What makes you eligible to be a Jellicle cat? What are the characteristics of a Jellicle cat? We still don't know by the end of the movie. Well, Caitlin, they give you many examples.

Romantical cats, pedantical cats, critical cats, parasitical cats, allegorical cats, metaphorical cats, statistical cats, mystical cats, political cats. Wow. Hypocritical cats metaphorical cats statistical cats mystical cats political cats wow hypocritical cats okay there's a lot of different kinds of cats i really don't think they could have explained themselves and they're all jellicle cats they're all jellicle cats they're kind of just andrew lloyd weber or or t.s elliott uh just whipped out a thesaurus thunked it down they're like let's fucking do this everything clerical cats hysterical cats yeah itical itical erical spherical oratorical cats delphic oracle cats practical cats dramatical cats i can honestly listen to you do that all day jamie this is my state of the union speech thank you all right I'm so sorry. We do know what a

Jellicle cat is and how you become one how you're eligible to become the Jellicle choice. You can't have a butthole like that's the number one rule. You cannot if you don't

have if you don't have a butthole. Good news. Yeah. Where are these cats pooping. Where are these cats. There's no litter boxes

in London on the streets. The only way that this movie could have been worse is if we saw one of the cats poop i'm sorry did you say worse i i would i'd be so happy i love it so much so but the idea of the jellicle cats is they're basically like a group of goth teenagers right they're just like a group of friends that all want to die like that's and then they have some like matriarch that's like i decide who gets to die and that's like the it's sort of like the midsummer thing where it's like you know we have this ritual someone dies

and we all dance and kind of rub up against each other yeah yeah interesting why wasn't midsummer more like cats i would have i would have loved a little cat synergy in midsummer just just hairy bodies lighten the hair nude bodies thank you lighten up aster throwing a couple songs and there are a lot of songs and a lot of them are about jellicle cats and i still don't know what they are okay they tell you a lot of different types of cats but i don't think that they're implying that those cats are there. I don't think the political cat is there. I don't think that skeptical cat is there.

Right. They're just alluding to past. Maybe they're just ones that have been sent to the Heaviside Lair. Oh, could be. Yes. Right. So Jellicle cats. And then there's Exposition Cat.

He's one of the cats that you're like oh he's sexy underneath all that right yeah like because he does look like more man than cat right he's got a face that looks more cat than person he skews a little more person than cat right like mr mustafli is that actor looks like a cat yeah Yeah. And he's my crush now. He's my new crush. Laurie Davidson. Sure. Okay. So this exposition cat, he's like, here, Victoria, let me show you around. So we meet, we see some cats and then we meet Idris Elba cat, aka Macavity. Macavity. Macavity. And then what ends up happening is that Macavity starts

just magically poof, disappearing the Jellicle cats and they end up on a barge because he wants to be he's eliminating his competition. But he does things, but in the, I don't remember how it happens in the musical. I've never seen a professional production, so I've only seen

Macavity just guide the cat off stage to say I've got you but Idris Elba can vaporize turn them to dust he turns them into dust and he says things he says a little catchphrase before he turns he does things like

ineffable cyaniera or one time he just goes meow you later he says his own name he's like macavity macavity each of us was giving it 300 and i think he like his performance is incredible if only it weren't so hard to watch i think that's a common theme like everyone was giving it their all but they just they didn't know it was in the context of something that they should not have tried hard at i wanted i wonder how he felt when he saw how because it's like

none of these people could have known what they were going to look like when it's over they simply had no way of knowing and so how did he feel when they're like do you like this this is what we did and like it's kind of too late to say anything because i guess that they finished editing this movie the day it came out yeah like yeah so even if idris elba had notes they're like thanks for sharing anyways it's out yeah yeah i i have to imagine that most of the cast were not necessarily thrilled with the renderings of the cats. You know, it's an anagram of cast. Cats?

Yes. Oh, you mean like earlier when I said... Most of the cats of cats. Oh, well, like Bechdel cast, and then I said Bechdel cats. Exactly. I'm glad we... Exactly. Now we're talking.

Great. Okay, so Macavity, the thing about him is that he's bad he's a bad cat and they and i guess that this was like part of the intended original text of t.s elliott as well but he's based on what's his name the sherlock villain oh moriarty moriarty to the point where in the movie there is that poster that says moriarty and then then Macavity's standing on top of it, and he goes, and then it says Macavity. Oh, right, it changes. And we're like, I get it. No, I understood at the beginning.

Yeah, so I guess that T.S. Eliot was both racist, misogynist, classist, anti-Semite, who loved Sherlock Holmes as well. Okay. So there you go. There you have it. Macavity. Macavity. Macavity. He's bad, but then we meet Mr. Mistoffelees, and he's good. He's good.

He's so cute. He's cute. He's cute. He's got a crush. Oh, he's got a crush on little Victoria. He's like, ooh. Meow? Meow?

He's cute. If she drops something, he's like, here it is. Yeah. That's just him. Very attentive to. Yeah. That's just him. Very attentive to her needs. That's just him. And then we find out about another cat who we won't meet yet, but we learn about old Deuteronomy. Oh.

And she's throwing, I guess every year, is this an annual thing? Yes. annual thing yes the jellicle ball in which she will make the jellicle choice about which jellicle cat she will select to be reborn into a new life and go to a place called the heavy side layer which is so this is the movie about cats that want to die yes and go to heaven with the assumption that they'll come back to life which in so far we don't hear that the cat's confirming and then she came back yeah right it just seems like maybe they might just well they wouldn't i guess they wouldn't go back to like the mean streets of london oh they would just shop somewhere else like yeah and like a rich person's house seems like a big like a fancy feast like the cupboards are full of fancy

so they're like you won't be reincarnated as a jellicle so we're kind of not worried we're just assuming things end up fine well again what is a jellicle cat what is it no those ones okay those ones but we'll like okay so we're jumping ahead here but at the end judy dench cat is like victoria you really are a jellicle cat and it's like like, well, what about her? I think that just means that she's been hanging out with them for six hours and hasn't gotten killed. Like, is that it? Also, do they hang out every day? It seems like they live together.

Well, some of the jellicle cats seem to be, like, street cats. But then you've got Jenny Anydots, who, like, seems to live in, like, a cushy life in a house. But then I feel like she kind of has this double life where sometimes she... She ventures out. Is out. I don't really know. An indoor-outdoor cat.

It seems like Bustopher Jones is kind of in and out of homes as well. I don't know if he's intruding or if he's just around. Sometimes people just have a cat that isn't theirs, but it comes over. My friend Martha has a cat that's not actually her cat, but it hangs out in her house all the time. That's really nice. That's really nice. So anyway, what's the story? So old Deuteronomy, she's gonna make a Jellicle choice. And I guess now that's the plot. Right. We meet Rebel Wilson cat Jenny Anydots. She is one of the Jellicle cat vying to be the Jellicle choice.

Yes. She sings a song. She's like a sadist. It's like torturing these children. Who has like mice. Mice servants or something. And these Busby Berkeley cockroaches that she eats. It's a lot.

And I don't know how like faithful this is to the source material but i did really resent sort of how rebel wilson and uh james corden were just like it seems like most of their direction is like all right so you're fat and that's oh hilarious oh they're mercilessly fat shamed throughout the entire thing and it's just it's just so it's insulting source material it's insulting to the actors it's true to this source material. It's insulting to the actors. It's insulting to the audience as well. It's just insulting. There's a whole conversation to be had about that.

What a mess. Then we meet Jason Derulo cat, aka Rum Tum Tugger is a curious cat. He commits. He commits. And he does a great job. He, okay, Jason Derulo is doing an Idris Elba impression.

The whole movie. And then things get very dramatic all of a sudden because Jennifer Hudson cat shows up. Her name is Grizabella. And she used to be a nice cat who everyone liked, but then she got involved with Macavity in some capacity. It's not clear what, but I would assume in a Taylor Swift-y kind of capacity. Just like she assists him in committing crimes. Macavity's not there. Oh my god. Someone check on Taylor Swift's lungs.

But the other cats have kind of turned their backs on her and it seems a little correct me if you disagree but it seems like it's maybe a little gendered the way they position it it always seems like the female identified cats are more viscerally angry with grisabella than male cats everyone doesn't like her but like, I think, two or three female cats that we see like after her. Yeah. Two or three times. And I'm just like, this is woman on woman violence. And we don't need this.

I agree with you. We're putting women against each other. They're pretty antagonistic toward Victoria, too, because in a scene that arguably passes the Bechdel test, although I don't know if we ever learned those cats' names, one of them's like, what's your name? And Victoria's like, Victoria. But she doesn't respond right away. And then she's like, what cat got your tongue?

Right. They're a little antagonistic towards other women. Yeah. And you're like, um, excuse me. Female cats supporting female cats, which we later see with Victoria and Grizabella. Right. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. But there is, they do have that little gendered woman on them it's true to me female cats are the like the most ornery like you know one-eyed you know fighting ears nibbled

off cats tend to be females oh interesting and it the barge cat to me and this this is no shade on the actor who played the barge cat. To me, I would have loved that role to have been played by my childhood cat Mittens, who would have killed it. Because she was an indomitable grump, a total grouch, and could just steamroll anything in her path. To use a somewhat antiquated, a little bit sexist term, she was a to use a somewhat antiquated a little bit sexist term she was a battle axe okay yeah all right i like it um so after uh grizzabella slinks away although like victoria's curious she's like who's that what's her deal yeah victoria is like what's going on there and no one offers any explanation and then you cut to jennifer hudson who as you said thinks maybe she might be winning an oscar for this and she's oh yeah she's crawling away on all

fours she's crawling looking over her shoulder tears streaming down her face and you're like they didn't even finish the cg on her this this just like this looks this looks like it's a lot. It is a lot. But I love it. Then she leaves and who appears but James Cordencat, Bustopher Jones. Yeah. And he basically knows the movie he's in. I think so. And we'll talk about that song.

Yes. But he seems to basically, but he's like a musical theater guy. So it kind of makes sense that he's like, well, this movie isn't going to be good, but I'll be in it. Right. And then Macavity makes Jenny Any Dots and Bustover Jones disappear. What's your favorite? I think one of my favorite Macavity. Well, I guess Skimble is my favorite cat disappearing.

Oh, because he just like is twirling up into the air. He doesn't even air to finish his song but um jenny any dots being turned into dust is pretty funny too because he like beckons her over and she's in her she did that thing where she unzipped her suit and then there but then he's like your name should be in lights and she's like yeah i know i'm really good and he's like yeah your face should be on posters and then he points to his own wanted poster yes it is it makes no sense that the cats don't know who he is or to look out for him because they know who he is and they say that i know everyone seems to know who mcavity is and that he's bad but then suddenly when they come

face to face with him they're, who's this nice cat? It doesn't make, I'm like, is that maybe a part of the magic? He's like Jedi mind tricking them or something? Oh, could be. That's the only way it can make sense to me because otherwise their animosity towards Grizabella doesn't make any sense because they're only mad at Grizabella

because of her association with Macavity who they must hate enough to know what he looks like. Especially because he's around. He shows up quite a bit. They see him. He's just between there and his barge. And there's posters of his face all over the place. He points to them.

He looks like. Your face should be on a poster. And then she looks at it and then is like, oh, that's who you are? And then he goes, and then she vanishes. and then she turns into dust and reappears on a barge yes so i i guess he's also a jellicle cat which like how is he eligible to be a jellicle cat but he's rounding up his competitors because he wants to be chosen to be

reborn well that's another gender thing where you're like, oh, I guess that it does make sense that old Deuteronomy was originally a male cat and this in the original production, it's a patriarchy, because that would explain why Grizabella got tossed out of the Jellicle cast. But for some reason, Macavity can stay even though he's the actual source of the problem, right? But Grizabella has been extradited from Jellicles, even though like it was just her association to this guy who's still a Jellicle. I'm sure that someone smarter than me can be like, it's like in American politics when blah, blah, blah. It's that.

Right. Okay. It's that. She's kind of been Lewinsky'd basically, which means that she's going to have a second act on social media. Grizabella's going to be like, stop the bullying. And we can't wait for it. I can't wait for it.

Is it that old Deuteronomy has the final say in who gets, she seems to be able to like, Seems like a monarchy. Yeah, she's like knighting them and being like, you're a Jellicle cat and you're not any, like, why can't she It doesn't seem, yeah. Take away Macavity's jellicle status. She seems kind of powerless to do it, which is kind of confusing. And then he sends her on the plank later. Spoilers.

The plank also. The barge has a plank. Of course it does. Okay. So then Victoria meets two cat burglars, Rumpelteazer and Mungo Jerry. And might I say the boring ones the ones i don't care about boring yeah and they're nefarious because they take her into this nice house and steal a bunch of jewelry and then leave without her and she's like kind of stuck on something

and mr mustafalis has to come and save her because even female cats need to be saved right and then there's a moment where i swear like we were sitting in that there's a moment during that first of all where you hear a dog and i'm like what do dogs look like in this world oh i wanted to see it so bad because they've established that every animal every living creature on this planet is humanoid because the mice and the cockroaches humanoid cockroaches humanoid i mean probably trees are humanoid too the dogs show me the dog the dog would have been so horrible alfred molina's behind the door like bark just like imagine imagine this universe birds humanoid fish humanoid just like human fish and everything's humanoid it's the implications

are mind-boggling it's uh, yeah, it's an uncanny world. Snakes, humanoid, really long humans. I don't like it. But at the end of that scene when, yes, Victoria has to be saved by Mr. Mistoffelees, there's a moment where I'm pretty sure it's, like, heavily convinced, like, you're supposed to think he, like, has a cat boner. They, like, nuzzle against each other.

They nuzzle, and then he then he goes oh and you're like no a barbed penis begins to unsheath itself you're like no oh it was not good yikes okay so then then then this is when uh judy dench cat old deuteronomy shows herself and when she enters the whole theater erupts into laughter yes it's such a dramatic unveiling and then everyone's like oh it's very exciting and then also as soon as she shows up ian mckellen cat is also suddenly there he doesn't get an entrance he just no hi um then there's a big dance number and then grizzabella shows up again and Victoria she sings the same song

and Victoria kind of like extends an olive branch because she's the one who's like well everyone else hates you she's so not like the other cats she's nice but Grizabella slinks off again and now it's time for the angelical ball and Ian McKellen the cat

aka Gus the theater cat he sings a song then we get a song from skimble shanks the railway cat if you're getting if you're getting whiplash this isn't caitlin's fault it's that the movie is 99 a new cat being introduced and singing a song about themselves like that's like the whole movie is like it's like i'm bibbly bop the the schmibbly cat and it's like he does a little dance and a little song and then it's like i'm some dibbly and i'm the cat that eats ass and then a song and then another one yeah but but it is to to spring the cat's defense forces out okay um because i know that former guest lindsey ellis is going to make an amazing video about this and we will we will all feel so stupid for having said these things but it's grounded in the narrative in that when skimbles shanks is is shaking his package around it's because in theory

he's presenting his case to be the jellicle choice right that's in theory why you're hearing everything yes so it actually makes a lot of sense. It actually is very narratively sound. You're right. Yes. But so they both sing their songs, but Macavity shows up again and makes both of them disappear.

That's also when Taylor Swift Cat shows up. Her name, I guess, is Bombalerina? Right. And she gets them all super high. Super on catnip on the nip which little note about catnip it doesn't just make cats high it actually is thought to act as like a fake cat uh pheromone so the fact that the cats are like undulating in the movie like they're all horny as heck is accurate okay good that's a good catnip facts about but not about catnips catnip facts not about cat nipples right right which also gets cat horny but you

know sure but yeah what are you gonna do so uh mcavity shows up and he's like well old dude it looks like i'm the only jellicle cat left. I guess you have to choose me. And she's like, never. I only choose cats who deserve a new life and you're bad. And then he goes, I hate it. And then she's on the barge. And then they're like, Judi Dench, you walk the plank. And then I guess she's on the plank for what is the 10 minutes that Mr. Mistoffelees is trying to summon her.

I want to see, yeah, like the uncut version of Idris Elba just being like, so, have you changed your mind? Right, we should keep cutting back to old Deuteronomy on the plank. She does that, I haven't changed my mind, Macavity. And then he's like, all right, walk one step further. Give it a few more minutes so then right we cut back to the theater where uh victoria is like my boyfriend's a magical cat he can get old deuteronomy back and i know that that's bad that like she is there to like pump him give him enough like ego to make judy dench appear but i've been

that cat before i've been like this is my boyfriend he's really good at magic and then he proceeds to be horrible at magic that was a very triggering passage for me but then we get one of the best songs in the production, Magical Mr. Mistoffelees. So good. And then we see Mr. Mistoffelees. I think that Mr. Mistoffelees, he tries to make her appear three times. But it's like he like, I'm going to come. No, I'm not.

I'm going to come. No, I'm not. I'm going to come. No, I'm not. I'm going to come. I'm going to come. Judy Dent is back. A tale as old as time.

You'll love to see it. And then he needs Victoria to encourage him before he can finally to get look the magical wand is not in his hand let me tell you well maybe sometimes it is but it's the wand we're looking at on it's his penis is what i'm trying to say is the wand is his penis victoria gets some horny for magic and then he gets horny for old dute old dute comes back i like that you do see a man with almost no confidence in himself because that's rare and then victoria sees grizabella outside and she's like come in here and sing victoria is like this better be the last time you sing memory because it's the fourth time and she does it and old deuteronomy is like wow grizzabella

that was so good you're the jellicle choice and you know what old dude owes grizzabella an apology yeah and doesn't give one she should be like i am so sorry i kicked you out of the jellicles that was sexist of me i i old dude have internalized misogyny it's hard for me to untrain myself from these things but i need to make an effort teach an old cat new tricks that's the saying wow and and and then she's like i just remembered i should have kicked out my cavity doy i'm so sorry you may die says jennifer hudson puts her in a hot air balloon to heaven and then she's like victoria wow good instinct on thinking that grizzabella was good you're a cat now so i guess why she's a jellicle cat yeah she did a good thing right so i guess that means

victoria is eligible to die next year at the next jellicle ball in a lot of effort victoria i and then there's the five minute scene where judy dench breaks the fourth wall and then ends the movie with the most profound line i've ever heard in cinema because she says most importantly a cat is not a dog. And we were like, what blew me away. It's weird. That is one of. Oh, we have to take a quick break.

That's the end of the movie. We have to take a quick break and then we have to really get a lot of discussion in. Ineffable. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered there are crooks everywhere you look now the situation is desperate my name is Manuel Delia I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere

a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel,

available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. faced two attempts on his life in less than three weeks. President Gerald R. Ford came stunningly close to being the victim of an assassin today. And these are the only two times we know of that a woman has tried to assassinate a U.S. president. One was the protege of infamous cult leader Charles Manson. I always felt like Lynette was kind of his right-hand woman. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI in a violent, revolutionary underground.

Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer. This is Rip Current. Available now with new episodes every Thursday. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Substance use disorder and addiction is so isolating. And so as a black woman in recovery, hope must be loud.

It grows louder when you ask for help and you're vulnerable. It is the thread that lets you know that no matter what happens you will be okay when we learn the power of hope recovery is possible find out how at startwithhope.com brought to you by the national council for mental well-being shatterproof and the ad council we're back okay so uh context corner Okay, so Context Corner for Cats is for a play with no plot. There's a fair amount of context. So this is an Andrew Lloyd Webber musical that originally came out in 1981. He was allowed to do this because Evita had been very successful. Jesus Christ Superstar had been very successful.

Not just anyone could have gotten this made because it doesn't make any sense but it's uh adapted from an old book of t.s elliott poems called old possum's book of practical cats which was published in the 1930s so most of the lyrics in this entire musical are direct t.s elliott poems okay or poems that have been modified slightly, but all the character names. Also letters from his wife, right? Because his wife said something in some letter where he's like, when cats die, they go up, up, up, up to the Heaviside Layer.

So the Heaviside Layer is referenced once in the book of poems, but they expand on the idea of it through letters. But basically, it was a book of children's poetry written by t.s elliott that andrew lloyd weber really liked as a child and all the character names come from t.s elliott like he effectively wrote the play got it basically all the ip is t.s elliott's and he just didn't live long enough to prevent this from happening it's basically okay and so andrew lay

weber uses his blank check as very successful composer to get this made um t.s elliott it is extremely worth mentioning that uh he was notoriously i mean he was every kind of bigoted it was possible to be and it shows in all of his most famous works including some things in cats that for the most part have been edited out but over the years that wasn't always true okay but he i think is most famously deeply anti-semitic but there's a lot of racism in his work there's a ton of misogyny in this work i was wondering about that aside and the thing about like the global bankers in the movie that was really weird yeah and he's also deeply like he came from money like he just had every privilege it's possible to have sure and doesn't give a fuck about anyone except people who are exactly like him uh you know rich white

straight men so uh he is bad uh and there there's that whole like academic like there are some academic analysts that will like do the mental gymnastics necessary to justify it but there's that whole academic, there are some academic analysts that will do the mental gymnastics necessary to justify it, but there's really no excusing it. It's not especially present in this book, but there was, for the most part, Andrew Lloyd Webber. He's a member of the British Conservative Party, so we can't stand him in that regard. But he has historically gone to bat for queer people and people of color in his musicals Extended Universe. So there are some ideas between T.S. Eliot and Andrew Lloyd Webber that are directly conflicting. And Andrew Lloyd Webber does a fair amount to steer his way around stuff. I don't agree with the casting of this movie in some ways, but in general, through the years, Cats has been kind of fluid in terms of gender, race. They're fucking cats.

Katie, you mentioned the gender of old Deuteronomy has changed through various adaptations. There are some Cats that were originally played by white actors that are later played by black actors and and vice versa. And Angela Weber has a fairly good track record of going to bat for actors that aren't just the straight white actors. Yeah. So there's that. But there was a song that was removed only removed from Cats in 2016 that says a blatant slur towards Asian people and that was a line taken directly from T.S. Eliot and the number it was a growl tiger number that was removed so in any case there were at very least adaptation changes made. And I think that that's like basically the background you need is we can blame Andrew Ledweber for making it scary, but all the things that are problematic are generally T.S.

Elliott IP. Okay. And let us talk about these problematic things because I mean, this is one of those movies where it's just like so nonsensical that it's almost sort of hard to analyze on any meaningful level. Because it's just like, well, none of it makes sense. And they're also cats. So, like, how much can we talk about the representation of women? And yet I insisted we do this movie. Well, she, I mean, Victoria well she I mean Victoria needs rescuing

Victoria needs rescuing she is maybe the most passive protagonist of any movie I've ever seen in my entire life yes and the fact that she is a female character you know means we just have an extremely passive female protagonist it's also wild that they had to add in a song for her for this movie. She didn't even have a shitty song. Like the song like, Beautiful ghost. That song that sucks. Oh, about being haunted.

Haunted. I had no idea what they were talking about with that song. Like what I gathered from it was like, sucks for you that you were kicked out of this Jellicle group, but like they like me. um see ya yeah but she like that song was written for this movie because so she didn't even have that much originally she was truly like nothing nothing and they the direction for her like she she is definitely that actor or ballet dancer she's a great ballet dancer. Super talented.

Not criticizing her at all. But the direction for her seemed to be basically like, look, wide eyed, innocent and sexy at all times. And that's like. Yeah. Problem. Especially because she's not really given much to do. Like she doesn't do anything except lift up Mr. Mistoffelees. Right. And I mean, she does. I do like generally how she is the only cat willing to like talk to Grizabella and bring her in.

Like I think that that is women lifting up other women and helping women. And then old dude. I like the choice of old dude being a woman in this and that she gives Grizabella the second chance and that you get the matriarchy through Judi Dench. And I think that those are all cool choices controversial slash straight up bad editing cg choice was that so francesca hayward is a black woman but you would never know that based on how she's stylized in the movie she's essentially i mean there's been there's a million articles on this that will have more cogent thoughts than the two seconds i have to summarize this but basically when the um trailer for this movie came out in

july 2019 a lot of people were like upset because because this movie has a black female lead but you would never know it particularly because she's a ballet dancer and she's not recognizable to the general public so like we i didn't find out that she was a black woman until before the third time I saw it. Right. And, you know, the pushback on that was like, well, you're not supposed to be able to tell the race of any of the cats. OK, but that's not true. Calm down there, Stephen Colbert. It's very it's like it's not true. Right. And even with I hate that. I hate that when they use that excuse for like, oh, we literally don't see race like nice try. Like you still have to do good representation. And you can identify the race of almost any other cat in the entire movie.

You can see Taylor Swift is not a like snow white cat, but you can still see in the way that she's edited the bottom of her face you can tell what ethnicity she is so it's like a shitty argument and it is whitewashing a black female character yeah because like yeah and then like Jennifer Hudson Idris Elba and Jason Derulo are all like visibly black also yeah also that's kind of messed up too because like with with Idris like one of the lyrics of the song is that he's a ginger cat. Like he's got like, you know, ginger coloration of the cat and then that he doesn't. That was a weird because in the musical, Macavity has been played by a black man before, but it's still a ginger cat. Right. Because that's how they describe him.

I don't know why they didn't do that. I mean, it's OK if you don't do that. But then why didn't then how come the argument is like, oh, well, you know, it's just like they're't do that. I mean it's okay if you don't do that but then why didn't then how come the argument is like oh well you know it's just like they're all just cats but then like you changed that but you didn't change Victoria. It doesn't make sense. The casting of this movie I mean it's a very diverse cast. I think that it's just again like an issue of just like a

very white behind the scenes crew that is not thinking critically or hard enough about the choices that they're making because you're casting, you know, like the only two true outliers from the Jellicle world are two black characters. You got Idris Elba as Macavity and then you have Jennifer Hudson as Grizabella.

So it's like the optics. I wouldn't be shocked if they're like, yeah, no one thought of it. So a lot of things seem to slip through the cracks with this movie. Yeah. Let's talk about the body shaming of some of the cats. And most notably Rebel Wilson cat and James Corden cat. They're both plus size actors. And then I think at least James Corden has like a fat suit on making him appear bigger than he is.

For sure. Yeah. For sure. So this is again, it's just like an adaptation issue, I think, where it's like when you're writing about a chubby cat in a poem, it's very different than shaming a famous actor for their size and, you know, kind of forcing them to make fun of themselves in a way that feels dated and like uncomfortable and unfair. Right. So like you don't have to adapt it that way. this sinister spiral of adaptations of it's like poem to musical to movie you can change how it's presented in the musical too yeah but they don't they don't yeah right and and just to be clear the issue is that like there should be a much wider array of body sizes represented in across

all movies so the fact that you have like plus size actors in this movie is great the problem is they're just like that's all it is those characters are characterized as being shown constantly eating uh rebel wilson is a gumby cat which i guess just means she's eating and laziness yes sits around does nothing they're just like always stuffing their faces and they're also the first two cats to be captured. Maybe that's just because they're the first two cats, jellicle cats who get introduced. But it's just like, it sends a message.

Also, it makes me think, so like, remember that really disturbing scene where Rebel Wilson, the Rebel Wilson cat like unzips her skin, pulls it off. And there's a dress, the tight cocktail dress under her skin yeah and then more fur under the dress which everyone's freaked out about and i've been thinking about why they would do that and why they wouldn't give her like you know how like idris elba's character and old old dude like gets like a furry coat yeah and like sort of like fluffiness and then that would be much less traumatizing to see her cut it off i think she does it twice it becomes a plot point yeah and i think the reason that they had her do

that is because they want to accentuate the fact that she's fat and and i think that was a way of like humiliating her in a way like the the character does that make sense yeah i don't really know like how it's portrayed in the original musical so I don't even I mean that could be something that's either being played down or up in either direction I'm not totally sure but it it doesn't come off well at all and it's just like it's not fair to the actors both James Corden and Rebel Wilson have had to like play in a way that mocks their own size for years and years it's really it's really insulting yeah and and it's not a joke that anyone is laughing at anymore like it's just it's uncomfortable i feel like we i i want to be optimistic and say largely as a society have kind of like moved past that and

like the the fat acceptance movement has done so much work that seeing like a goofy movie that doesn't need to do this there's so many dumb things you can do with rebel wilson and james corden they're comedians like they're uniquely qualified to make anything funny and then just to be like nope your body is the joke we're not going to change the source material at all right sorry like and just anytime that there's like a refusal to adapt something like that is just it's just lazy it just sucks right it's like what are you you're gonna like take a bunch of steps backward in any progress that's been made for fan service or to like have a a more faithful

adaptation like who cares no one cares but then it's i mean it's an impossible choice on their part because if i'm rebel wilson and someone like, do you want to be in Cats? I'm like, whatever it takes. So so it's it just it. Yeah, we're it's tough. It's an issue. It's the refusal to adapt. It is so it's glaring and it makes the best movie less the best and while there have been strides made in the body positivity movement and

there's less fat shaming than there was in the past it's still a huge issue and i think particularly in hollywood there's still a refusal to cast plus size actors and things it's getting a little better but like and the types of parts that plus size actors get tend to be the same stock characters yes that this doesn't stray from stray cats meow at all yeah a thing that rebel wilson has to deal with a lot in most of the movies she gets cast in is that she's made to be also very clumsy like constantly falling or like getting hit in the head yeah or like so her most famous character's name is fat amy right it's like it's ridiculous um but in this movie i mean no exception where she's like falling all the time she like falls off the chair and she's they're just like both her and right

james corden cat are like clumsy just kind of bumbling and that's kind of a trope that has to do like a sort of sizist trope where it's like, oh, if you're fat, you're like doofy, clumsy, or you're gluttonous, you're greedy. And like the James Corden character embodies some of that where he's like, he's greedy, he's gluttonous, he's like, you know, sort of like a prima donna.

And like, it was just bad. And it's too bad too because it's like i mean obviously like i understand why they would take these roles in this amazing perfect built to succeed movie uh and james corden to his credit has done a fair amount of like good activism for plus-sized people and so it's just it just sucks that they're subjected to this it's because like and it's not it doesn't read well to anybody. Right. Well, you look at like the roles that plus size people get. And it's like pretty every everyone who's been prominent has had to take a role where like the main joke is that you're big.

And it's just like it's it's cringy for audiences in general. Like it's just bad. Can I say something I liked? Yeah. Old dude. Old dude? In general, I's just bad. Can I say something I liked? Yeah. Old Dude. Old Dude? In general, I like Old Dude. I like how Judi Dench plays her too seriously.

But I did like that, well, it seems like Grizabella's character was originally supposed to be pretty ageist, and her whole character is built around like the quote-unquote like the indignities of aging the feeling of irrelevance female beauty fading and like these things that are real and i think were even realer in 1981 but it's kind of uncritical of them but then she's redeemed it's kind of confusing but for in terms of old dude i like that um old dude is allowed to be just as freaky sexual as all the other cats i loved the orgy with old dude i loved that right because they go into the theater and they have a massive orgy and they rub against no it's not even like i mean okay i'm exaggerating a little bit they don't literally have sex but they rub

up against each other old dude old dude gets in there and like they're rubbing up against her and it's like this kind of pansexual cat orgy and I'm it's 2020 we have a pansexual cat orgy I'm here for representation we've needed for decades but it is cool I mean I feel like I do I agree with you you're making a very good point I mean, I feel like... I agree with you. You're making a very good point. I'm kind of being silly, but I agree with that, yeah. Oh, yeah, just like that people over a certain age,

particularly women over a certain age, are not afforded, aren't allowed to be sexual in any way, and everyone in this movie is too sexual, Judi Dench included. Did you see Judi Dench's cute little leg thing where she's sitting in her basket? Oh, horrifying.

She was sitting in the basket, like sort of that paint me like one of your French cats pose yeah she does the leg kick and she was like i'm wet i screamed yeah everyone we all screamed we all screamed for judy dench's cat legs but she she and ian mckellen are just as horny as the next cat on the block so that's that's i thought that's a way i love a i love a horny cat judy dench she really i fun fact about judy dench is that she was so excited to be in this movie because she was originally supposed to play i think either grizzabella or victoria in the original production of cats oh and then she got hurt and she couldn't do it But she's been a cat stan for all these years. And then Mr. Weber was, Lord Weber, was like, Dame, will you be my old dude?

And she said, yes, yes, yes. Can I kick? Like, it was, oh. Oh, good for her. It's good. One of the adaptations that I liked in Cats, and that's why any time that someone's like, I can't change the Jenny Annie Dutts song I can't change Bustopher Jones'

song and they were like but you changed a lot of stuff in a good way. You took out the racist song we needed that and a change that I really liked is they changed Old Deuteronomy who has been played by all genders throughout the years the production I saw by the way the most recent production i saw

friend of the cast friend of the cats cory johnson played old deuteronomy incredible it was and i had completely forgotten and then and cory was like i'm old dude i'm like don't know what that means and she's like she's like it seems like i'm never gonna come out and then i do i was like all right and that's exactly and they it was in a tiny it was at the lyrics it was like a tiny theater and so it was just cory like walking really slowly to the center of the stage she's wearing this huge cape and you're just like what is happening it was it was so great cory is a better old dude than judi Dench. Wow. But it is nice for the big feature adaptation to see them make the choice to have it be a matriarchy.

I think that there are a few things that make a little bit less sense when it's a matriarchy, like Grizabella being extradited and Macavity not. But in general, I think it's a good choice. Yes. I liked it. Yes, indeed. Well, you've got your list. Oh, yes. I just, let me go through my, I brought a notebook.

Did you hear the pages turning? I know, you had your notebook at the AMC. I brought it to the AMC. We loved to see it. Let me just go through and see what very stupid jokes I wrote down. Gus the theater cat. He sings a song about the good old days and how maybe it would be nicer if we returned to the good old days. So he's a MAGA cat is what I'm saying.

Yeah, he's the OK Boomer cat. By the way, who is running tech at the Jellicle Ball? Isaac. Isaac, your boyfriend. Isaac, my boyfriend, is running tech at the Jellicle Ball? Isaac. Isaac, your boyfriend. Isaac, my boyfriend, is running tech. He's running tech everywhere, including the Jellicle Ball. And he didn't get paid on time for it. I like the other choice that you're like, whose idea was this?

Was during Magical Mr. Mistoffelees when Jason Derulo starts going falsetto. Oh, yeah. He's like, magical, mystical, mistoffelees. You're like, I feel like they only did like one take and then we were like,

oh, Jason, you weren't supposed to do that, but we only had the one take. So let's just move on. We were talking about this at the theater, but it's, so most actors you could tell, like the famous people were not there

more than they had to be. But Jason Derulo seemed to be there every every day he's in the background of every shot yeah he's like there he's in so many things that you're like wouldn't have missed him but he's just like like he's just back there he loves cats he loves cats what else did you write down let's see um oh oh the um what song is that sorry i just can't stop thinking about it um the like hip-hop cats who wear the sneakers yeah they're b-boy cats uh they were wearing like yeah they i think that that was added for the movie i don't really have anything else to say

about it yeah but they come up a couple times they're on they're on skimbles uh train they're in the bed at skimble on skimbles's train right with their sneakers sneakers in the bed take your shoes off skimbles whenever um there's a bunch of like really stupid cat puns which look i think we if they had just tried a little harder they could have gotten some better things i like when rebel wilson says don't mess with the crazy cat lady and then she beats up growl tiger i i have to admit i like that part that was fine um there's the whole like cat caught your tongue joke there's the um i think rebel wilson says like who let the cat out of the bag yeah that one wasn't very good when they they don't cut any of the improv that they do

like you just get to feel like tom hooper's on the other side of the camera like say something about a say something about a cat i don't know how he talks i know he's british uh so i said about a cat and james corden's like a cat and then he's like all right cut it stays oh and then james corden lands on his cat balls do you remember that part oh he does land on his cat testicles but then uh someone else someone else is accused of being neutered i forget who that is oh oh um is that jason derulo cat yeah rebel wilson does some improvised line about like is has he he's been neutered has he just has he not been neutered or something because he's making everyone he's doing like a falsetto and so she she thinks that like he's like a eunuch cat i

thought that it was because he was making everyone horny. My read was that he was singing. No, she says something like, he's singing so high as if he's been neutered. The way that they used to castrate young boys in choirs. She just doesn't know it's just Jason Derulo under all that. They're like, no, he's just a soprano. It's Jason Derulo. Yeah. or all that they're like no he's just a soprano it's Jason Derulo yeah I don't there is also I

every time I watch it and all the female cats become violently horny when Jason Derulo comes on the scene I'm like there's some commentary there but I'm too horny to figure out what it is so you know if anyone has a read on that feel free to share I haven't I haven't been able to calm myself down enough to analyze that passage yeah I i can't make heads or tails i'm like is that sexist but also i'm horny heads or tails of it meow um i found some other bad puns from the movies uh someone says look what the cat dragged in all right and then someone says oh i think this is rebel wilson she says stop milking it oh rebel and then i think there's like a sign that is supposed to be like for a casino but it says catcino there's all this i wish i paid more like close attention to the sign i'm pretty sure all the

signs are cat adjacent because there's like yeah yeah yeah well because there's that iconic scene that we somehow haven't brought up where they're at the milk bar during rum tum tugger curious so rum tum tugger it makes sense when you take in the scope of the song rum tum tugger is indecisive he wants what he can't have but there's this moment where he's walking out of the bar the milk bar he's like no more milk he's done who is the bar, the milk bar. He's like, no more milk. He's done. Who is that for? Is that for cats or is it for?

It seems like it's for humans. I know. It says like milk all night long in London. But he walks out. He's like, no more milk. And then he gets two steps out and he goes, milk! And it's not sung. It's just screamed screamed it's so good

oh my god how about your list my list okay i'm gonna make a more detailed graphic about this oh good um you're welcome uh for the Bechtelcast official accounts. So a lot of people have been saying that this movie is going to be a midnight screening classic like Rocky Horror. Or The Room. Or The Room. And with those, when you go to those movies, there's specific things you're supposed to yell at the screen, specific things you're supposed to do when certain things happen, which means there will be a system devised for this movie.

Maybe we can get ahead of it and contribute to history. Let's do it. This is not that. This is mainly just a list of things I wrote down on my phone because you're allowed to have your phone out during this movie. No one gets mad at you. So I made a list on my phone during my second viewing of the movie of just things that were getting reactions that I'm like, we could figure this out. I'll try to crystallize it a little more for social media, but feel free to jump in thank you so this was made during the okay when cats wear hats you can scream i mostly just added places you can scream okay when cats wear hats you can scream anytime a new cat starts a song you can yell who is that um when a cat

disappears into dust you have to drink when idris elba's on screen you can yell, who is that? When a cat disappears into dust, you have to drink. When Idris Elba's on screen, you can yell, his career may never recover. Let's see. There has to be some sort of rule when the mice and the cockroaches show up. There has to be something. Yeah.

Right? There has to be something there. Oh, when Rum Tum Tugger comes on screen, you have to go, Jason Derulo. Oh, obviously. that has to happen obviously um something about pussy jokes i just wrote that down um oh milk there has to be something there when grizzabella starts to crawl on the ground you can yell drama queen when james corden's song is ending you can yell your move fallon you fucking sicko

when james corden's cat nipples come out you can say show me the other four sweetie um during the other four the other six sorry the other i'm so sorry i was drunk um during mungo jerry and rumple you go pee, everyone leaves the theater. Let's see. Do something when the cats get horny, but they don't get boners. Um, oh, this is, okay. This is a half developed thought, but whenever Ian McKellen is on screen and doing something that's a little weird, um, you just pretend that he did one take of everything.

So whenever he goes, ma, ma, ma, ma, you could be like, wow, Ian did one take of everything so whenever as he goes mom mom mom you could be like wow ian one take great if you get oh in quiet moments you can just say regular volume lay miss was pretty good uh whenever judy dent is talking and no one is listening you can just be like what are you talking about uh like when she's like staring out the window at grizzabella and victoria becoming friends and she's just talking about uh like when she's like staring out the window at grizzabella and victoria becoming friends and she's just talking about she's like something about a cat is going to happen soon and you're just like shut up you can yell shut up okay at any at any time you can yell shut up um at any time you can yell what year is it it? Oh, and here's my favorite one. This is something that my friend John Milstein did

while we were seeing the movie. But, so you know, during Skimbleshanks, the Railway Cat's song, at one point he starts to tap and he starts slow and then it gets kind of faster. Oh, yeah. So, okay. So once he starts to tap, you can go, oh, and then he'll tap a little faster and then you go, oh,

and then when he starts to really go, you go, oh and then he'll tap a little faster and then you go oh and then when he starts to really go you go oh here we go that's the most satisfying thing if anyone has anything to add to the midnight cat screening rules i'm going to try to be crowdsourcing them online see if we can really pull something together i think anytime there's like a cat a bad cat pun that something oh absolutely gotta be something there's enough there's enough yes well that that's a great list thank you so much for curating that thank you oh you can also boo mr mistoffelees as he continues to fail there when he goes oh and then you go and then he just starts to sing he keeps singing the song oh well i never was there ever a cat so clever as magical mr mistoffelees wow there's

never a cat that i want to hook up with in real life as much as oh no oh no okay we're never gonna see him again um well does cats pass the bechdel test i believe it does yeah i think so i believe it does i think uh there's a few times with uh grizzabella and um victoria they talk about things like loneliness and female beauty being fleeting there yeah and then also uh old deuteronomy and victoria she's like do you want to come to the jellicle ball my favorite thing that passes the bechdel test what is the exact phrasing where it's like like victoria's like i'm astray i'm alone in the world and old dude's like oh that sucks pause do you want to see me make the jellicle choice you're like okay she basically was like anyways yeah sorry but more

importantly story it passes yeah um so yeah we've got we've got not that much interaction at least not spoken interaction uh between female characters i do like how the female cats do nuzzle each other that's good i could have used a little more like male characters nuzzling each other because I think that would have been nice. I think that Mr. Mistoffelees and Skimbleshanks should nuzzle. Yeah, god damn it. Why doesn't Skimble get that? Well, no, Skimble's a career man. He doesn't have time for a relationship.

He's on this train every night. He's got a cat in every city he's like a touring comedian oh all right so our nipple scale our five cat nipples zero to five nipples uh based on its representation of female cats. Oh, geez. I guess like... Let me say like three. I was going to go two, two and a half. 2.5 nipples. I'm going to say three because I got horny.

Okay. Two nipples and two James Corden areolas. Okay. Yeah, I think I'll go with, I don't know, I guess a two between all of the just like the extremely passive female protagonist but that's then also you have like female characters

lifting each other up and there's a matriarchy but like again like this is one of those movies that it's just so outlandish. The meowtriarchy. The meowtriarchy. It's too outlandish to really apply any sort of like feminist criticism to wait till that lindsay ellis video drops i know i'll just go 2.5 right down the middle because i don't know

what else to do but it is a blast to watch if you're with friends and a big group of people just laughing laughing it up yeah it's i love it it has problematic elements i wish that more had been adjusted for the adaptation but you know i i three nipples i sure i don't care to explain myself this time that's fine three cat nipples they're all going to skimble of course okay how about you yeah like i said i'd give it like maybe two cat nipples and like a james corden area like yeah it's not a good movie it's not a good movie philosophically it doesn't really do a good job socially or in the terms in any way a movie really should do. The reason I'm giving it some nipples is I think everyone acted their little cat hearts out. And I appreciated that even though it was misplaced.

And the sheer there's something to be said about a movie that is so bizarre and bad that it becomes this lightning rod that i think i do value like i i think that it's it has you know all these conversations are now happening so that's in a way that's art true yeah well uh okay thanks for joining us thanks for having me where can people find you online you can find me me at ProBirdWrites on Twitter where I make the case for a world of birds and I'd actually like to I'm going to start making a birds musical with you know such

characters as Mr. Cheep Cheep McBeep Beep the musical bird and you can find me at Katie Golden and I host Creature Feature a podcast about the animal and human world and how, hey, we ain't so different after all. In fact, sometimes we look exactly like cats and move around and rub our nipples everywhere. Meow, meow, meow.

Meow, meow, meow. Meow, meow. Oh, yes. Check out Creature Feature podcast. It's right here on this network. And it's great. You can find us all over the place most importantly we're going to be going on tour very soon yes but we'll be in san francisco uh on

the 22nd we will be in uh brooklyn on the 24th and we will be in philadelphia on the 26th you can go to our website bechtelcast.com and click on live to see more stuff about that and other shows we're doing you can find us online wherever not hard don't overthink it yeah just search Bechtelcast and you'll definitely find us you'll find us or you'll find some sinister imposter

like Macavity Macavity is not there Macavity don't care sign up for our Patreon aka Matreon at Patreon.com or is it our Catreon our Catreon

which is actually just mine that's Patreon.com slash Bechtelcast and we're doing what movie is this month we're doing we're doing Netflann month we're doing? We're doing Netflanuary. What were we calling it? Genetflixuary.

Either way, it sucks. But we're doing the episodes are great. We're doing Someone Great and The Kissing Booth. So look out. Joey King just got hit in the head with the Golden Globe the other day.

One of my favorite most recent celebrities. She got hit in the head? I didn't see that. So she was in this miniseries that was scary. Oh, The Act? With The Act with Patricia Arquette. Patricia Arquette won a Golden Globe and then accidentally bonked poor Joey. She has some great pics.

I'd like to plug Joey King's Instagram. She has a million billion followers but always good to help uh if you want to see her head bonked that's where you can catch it great um and and tpublic.com slash the back to cast for we need to we should do a cat's shirt the back to cats the back to cats then it's us, but we're uncanny valley cats. But we look like cats. I'll get to work right away. To the lab. Oh my God. Wow. Okay.

Thanks everyone. Meow. Meow. Meow. In California during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before. Tried to assassinate the president of the United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson. 26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nickname Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI.

Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer, this season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus only on Apple Podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption

that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes

one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, availableaps of different meds, but by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane, what we can do about it, and why we should care. Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.