The Bechdel Cast - Daughters of the Dust with Kenice Mobley

Episode Date: February 26, 2026

This week, Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Kenice Mobley (on her eighth appearance on the show!) examine Daughters of the Dust (1991)! Follow Kenice on Instagram at @kenicemobleySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello and welcome to the Bechdelcast. Hello. My name is Caitlin Durante. My name is Jamie Laftus and this is our podcast where for 10 years we have taken a look at your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens using the bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion. But Caitlin, what is it? I do think like sometimes I'm like, I can describe the bechdel test with ease. But then every once in a while, if I'm having an off day, I'm like, wait, what is it? And today's one of those days. So what is it? Sure. Well,

you're feeling sick. Is that true? Yes, I'm at my most vulnerable. We'll take care of you. Thank you. But yes, the Bechdel test is a media metric created by our dear, dear friend, Alison Bechtel. It appeared in her comic, Dikes to Watch Out for in the 80s originally. It has since been used as a more mainstream media metric that has many versions of it. The one that we use requires that two characters of a marginalized gender, have names, they speak to each other, and their conversation has to be about something other than

a man, and ideally it's a narratively relevant and meaningful conversation and not just throw away dialogue. Yeah, not really an issue we're going to be having with the movie we are discussing today. Spoiler alert, if you've seen it, you know. If you haven't, get excited. This is a movie that, well, first of all, we had to bring in our all-time guest, our all-timer. We haven't made the jacket, but we will. We will. We will. We're working on it.

To discuss a movie that we have been, and there's a whole conversation to be had around this, a movie we've been trying to cover on the show for years, but has only recently become easy to stream and access. So we are finally covering Daughters of the Dust, 1991, Julie Dash, with an incredible returning guest. Caitlin, why don't you introduce her? You know her, you love her. She's a comedian.

She is making her eighth appearance. Holy shit. On the Bechtelcast. Yeah. It's Kinise Mobley. Hello. Welcome back. Thank you for having me.

I love being here. As evidenced by the fact that I've been here seven times before. Welcome back. I was wondering if you recall the other episodes you've done. I remember something new. Mm-hmm. And you know what? I'm going to say this is because I value our friendship so much and we talk so regularly

that I couldn't possibly remember one specific conversation, Caitlin. We've traveled the world together. I can't keep things like that in my mind. Okay. And so now that I've said that to make myself sound better, what were my other episodes? I'm sorry. Okay. The one I remember most vividly is the how Stella got her groove back episode, fun episode.

Yep. I'm going through the Wikipedia. So I think your first episode with us, or one of the very early ones was Casino Royale. I fucking love it. I'm so happy I got to discuss that with you. I love that. And Mads Mikkelson is still one of my all-time crushes. I want to make out with him yesterday.

Well, wait, Caitlin, I'm seeing that Kinesse's first appearance was perhaps on the Matriot. Okay, that's what I was wondering. Covering back to the future back in 2018. I feel like, you guys. known you guys since you started this podcast. I feel like it was like before then. Since I don't understand why maybe it was because we were mostly recording in person and that's why it took a long tour for out-of-state guests.

That's what I'm a, because otherwise it doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I was like, that's bizarre. Because both of you guys were on my podcast when I had a podcast and I remember it was like a joint thing. Right. But yeah, no, I think it was because we did it as a live show at Brown University, ever heard of it. Oh, yeah. Wait, why did that happen? Wow, life is so long. I was like, how did we end up at Brown University talking about back to the future? Right. And then the audio from that episode was not great. So I had to like subtitle the whole thing. And then we ended up because the audio was so bad, we actually ended up taking that episode down. So it's, it has gone away. But it's still in our hearts. Life is, life is so long. Okay. But then Casino Royale. And then she's got to have. have it.

Yeah. Uh-huh. And then the most recent one before this, current episode is Zoolander. Yeah. Oh, love it. The range. The range.

And then you were also, you also joined us for an episode that we entitled, updates, improvements, and a discussion with Kinesse Mobley. I don't know what I was talking about. Something. If I recall correctly, it was during the George Floyd protests.

Uh-huh. Okay. I do remember that. We were basically realizing that we needed to take. a more intersectional approach to our analysis. And so we were discussing that and what we were going to do moving forward. And then we were kind enough to join us for that discussion. Thank you for genuinely. I remember you guys have been going for 10 years. I remember 10 years ago in Boston for me. I think Caitlin, you already moved to L.A. or did you not? Yeah. Yeah.

I was a year behind Caitlin. I was there for another year. Yeah. Wild. But oh, look at us. Simpler times. Yeah. You guys. moved to a warmer place and like have been employed and stuff and I chose a frozen tundra of unemployment but you know we're all doing it we're all doing our best better parties though better parties let's be honest yes I'm still throwing parties I love it it makes me really happy well welcome back the jacket it just keeps getting held up just keeps getting held up hard to say why if there's someone who's a becktle class listener who loves sewing and giving away jackets you know what to do I'm like, I've been thinking, Caitlin, I was like, we should do a 10-year photo shoot and we should just get jackets and also get Kinesse a jacket.

Like, I want a podcast-themed letterman jacket. I don't care if it's cringe. I want it. No. What color? We deserve it. I mean, I think, like, block color, like going full 90s, block colors. I'll draw some stuff up.

We'll discuss. We'll discuss. Okay, cool, cool, great, great. In the meantime. Oh, yeah. We need to do the show. Let's do the show. So we're talking about Daughters of the Dust.

Canis, what is your relationship with this movie? So I first saw this movie, I want to say, in undergrad, when we were discussing black filmmakers. And I always thought it was cool. But I didn't really think about it much again until Lemonade came out in 2016. And I was like, oh, I see a lot of the visual similarities in this. And then lately, I've seen it. But I also saw it in the context of like, I saw the color purple for the first time last year and seeing this and thinking about how this came five years after the color purple, but it's so much, there's so much more black joy in this film and conversations between black women that I just really liked.

So that is my relationship with it. I'm not an expert, but I do like it a lot. Oh, I guess I should say I'm from North Carolina. this takes place off of the coast of South Carolina. My family had a timeshare on Edistill Island. I remember like Gullah Gala Island and some other things talking about Gullah culture and those islands specifically that were separated from some of the mainland. And I find it fascinating given that my forefathers, I don't know, are from South Carolina,

how they're like so excited to go to the mainland. when the state of South Carolina sucks ass. And then you're just like, wow, after this beauty, that is kind of, there's an opportunity for Daughters of the Dust to turn into a completely different movie very quickly when it's like this beautiful, like painful departure, cummings, goings, all this. And then, you know, shortly after they get to the mainland,

they're like, well, this fucking blows. I hate it. And that's like, that's how I viewed the film where I was like, they're so excited to go. and I know where they're going is garbage. So I'm just like, well, aren't they planning to migrate north once they get to the mainland? I hope so.

I hope they get there. Because God damn. And if you're a listener of this show and you live in South Carolina, I'm sorry. And also, free will exist and you can move because that state is awful. They have a horrible education system. There's culture where I just, it's not a good state and you should leave. And that is the Kenny's Mowley PSA of the episode. Oh, goodness.

Jamie, what's your history with the movie? Kind of similar. I mean, I was not, I mean, my film program failed me in so many ways. And I did not learn of this in college. Although I was forced to take a course I've brought up on the show many times. Oh, the Woody Allen one? Woody Allen course. that's where they were like, this is how we're going to spend our time.

But I, so I think I was not, I mean, it is really interesting how Beyonce has had a hand in giving this movie a second life for people who hadn't seen it because it was a very difficult movie to see for some time. I think we started talking about covering this movie on the back to cast in like 2019. There was, I tried to get a ticket to see it at Vidyitz last year, but it sold out. Like it's just been a very difficult movie, at least for me to find. I know we've tried to because whatever, show policy is like we want our listeners to be able to watch the movie we're talking about. And so finally, I think fairly recently it was added to the Criterion channel. And I am engaged to a man, so I have access to a Criterion channel subscription. Of course.

Congrats on your engagement. I don't think I said that before. Yeah. Yeah. Look, just slipping it in there. Wow, brag. It's also on canopy. That's how I watched it.

Excellent. Then you don't need a man to watch Daughters of the Tuss. You just need a library card. You just need a library card. The Brooklyn Library does not have canopy, which is fucked up. But I was able to get it on Amazon. I know Amazon's bad. No.

Yeah, it was Amazon. And it was $3.99. So. Everyone, it is an accessible movie for you to watch now. No excuses. But yeah, it was really fun to find. finally get to watch it. And then even more fun to listen to a lot of Julie Dash interviews. She's so fascinating and so cool and has done so much like world building off of this.

She's written two books off of this story, including one with bell hooks. Like, yeah. There's a lot of very interesting and often frustrating lore that comes with this movie. So I'm very excited to talk about it. Caitlin, what's your history? I hadn't seen it before. This was my first time watching it. and I am excited to talk about it. My history is, it's four days long, so there's not much to say, but I'm delighted that we're finally covering it. Yeah, like you said, Jamie, we've been trying to for years, and now it's the time.

And I'm excited that it's here. So let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap. The newest tracks. Let's go. New music. And the next big thing. Always on the new music first. Your first place to hear it all.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. At a Morehouse college, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees,

including Martin Luther King's Senior. It's the true story of protests and rebellion in black American history that you'll never forget. I'm I'm Minnalik Lamoumonger. Listen to the A building on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. I'll place a content warning at the top for discussion of rape.

We don't see any rape or assault or anything on screen, but the characters talk about a rape that happened in the backstory. So just so everyone is aware. we open on text on screen saying that at the turn of the century, Sea Island Gala's descendants of African captives remained isolated from the mainland of South Carolina and Georgia. And as a result of their isolation, the Gala created and maintained a distinct, imaginative, and original African-American culture. Gala communities recalled, remembered, and recollected. much of what their ancestors brought with them from Africa.

Then we open on Ebo Landing, which is an area of, I think, St. Simon's Island. We're in 1902. Also, not for nothing, not to immediately center myself in this incredible film about Black Joy. But this whole movie takes place on my birthday. They were like August 18th, and I was like, August 18th, and I was like, August 18th, mentioned. Yes. That's right. I was not around, but I felt immediately locked in. I was like, all right, something amazing is going to happen today. I can feel it. Okay. If being August,

I totally forgot that. Like, I know how hot it gets in North Carolina. And South Carolina is worse. And for them to be wearing so many layers in August, I'm surprised that they're not fainting, falling out, like lots of horrible things ever falling in. That's a lot of, all I wanted to spend. They're not sweating. I'm like, I would be drenched. Me too. It was, it sounded like, I was like, I, I wish I had time to, like, get the book, but there was, like, a lot of information about how this was made. And there was, because it would get, like, so hot or there was, like, a hurricane that took place in the middle of shooting because of where they were shooting it, um, that the actors kind of had to be just like on call to be like, hey, it, it doesn't suck out right now. Get your costume on. Like, yeah, because it just sounds, I, I, I, I, I, I, wonder, I don't know what time of the year they actually shot it. I hope it wasn't actually August. That would that would be unfortunate. Yeah. Because it's all, it's humid too, I imagine, right? Yeah. Yeah. I can't, I could not handle it. I wouldn't, I wouldn't wish. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. On my worst enemy, yes, I would wish this. A lot of, a lot of, yeah, just like mild but intense

discomfort is, I would love to wish that on my enemy. Yes. Right. Okay. Okay. Okay, so we get voiceover narration from an unborn child. We'll meet her parents soon, but this child is talking about all these sort of conflicting identities she has. She says, I'm the first and the last, the honored one and the scorned one, the whore and the holy one, wife and virgin, the barren one, and many are my daughters, which kind of sets up this like poetic undercurrent of the whole. movie because this is a story. It's like a slice of life. We're getting a lot of like voiceover narration. We're getting some flashbacks. It's centering on this peasant family who are gearing up to migrate from this island to the mainland and then head north. But we start to meet members of the family.

Mary Pizant played by Barbara O. Everyone knows her. her as yellow mary because of her lighter skin she is joined by her friend and possibly lover i couldn't get a handle on their relationship exactly i i was like you know what none of my business yeah also i have to ask like um both of you are white i've noticed oh yeah yes yes are you familiar with high yellow and yellow like black people calling lighter skin black people yellow No. I hadn't come across that before. No. Okay, because that is like a very common thing. It's not just like, oh, we picked that name out of the hat. Calling someone yellow or high yellow, we, my mom's not listening to this podcast. We joke because my mom is much lighter skin than I am. We always call her high yellow and she hates it. She's like, leave me alone. No, I'm like regular dark and we're like, whatever. Like, can you even use Band-Aids? Like, band-aids being the color that she is. And we joke about that. So, yes.

Wow. Yeah, I had never heard it before. Mm-hmm. Anyway, so Yellow Mary, she's got a companion named Trula, and they are traveling by boat from the mainland to the island to kind of reconvene with the family. They link up with Mary's cousin Viola, played by Cheryl Lynn Bruce, as well as a photographer named Mr. Sneed, who

Viola had hired to document the family crossing over to the mainland. Who, guess what? We saw in she's got to have it. Wait, did we? Oh, I forgot about that. He's the boyfriend at the end who assaults her. Oh,

wow. Okay. Well, a far more likable character in this one, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Other members of the family, include Iona Pizant, played by Bonnie Turpin. She receives a letter from St. Julian Last Child, a man from the Cherokee Nation,

who loves Iona and asks her not to leave with her family and to stay behind on the island to be with him. And is so handsome. He's really hot. We then meet the parents of the unborn child narrator. This is Yula and Eli. played by Alva Rogers and Adisa Anderson, respectively. Yula had recently been raped, and she is pregnant, and they are not sure if Eli is the father of the baby that Yula is carrying,

and Eli is really struggling with that. We meet Nana, played by Coralie Day. She is the elder family matriarch. she is visiting the grave of her late husband. She intends to stay behind on the island while the rest of the family migrates north. Eli, who is her, I believe, great-grandson, comes by looking to Nana for guidance because he feels that his wife has been, like, tainted or ruined by this rape.

and basically Nana is like quit victim blaming your wife be supportive and also like don't push her for information because that seems like part of what is like torturing Eli is like who did this and she's like shut up you know it's not going to help you to know who did this yeah right and it's also just

yeah like whatever centering himself he learns his lesson he does he does I appreciate you you never see men grow on screen You just see them repeat the behavior and then eventually it be told, all right, whatever. So it was nice that he grows. But before he grows, he's lashing out. He trashes some stuff. There's this kind of push and pull in the story about the characters.

And it's mostly Nana who has like religious practices that derive from her African ancestors. I think she's practicing hoodoo. And Eli and various other characters are like, that's not going to help. Like it doesn't do anything. I thought you were going to protect me, but it never seems to work and all this stuff. So he's carrying on about that.

Then Mary arrives on the boat and reunites with her family, some of whom are happy to see her, though others like Auntie Hagar and Viola, who are both very, very Christian. They suck. Yeah. We are mean. They think that Mary is quote unquote ruined.

And we'll talk more about this. But Mary goes to visit with Nana. It seems like they have a close bond. We also see Mary hanging out with Trula and Yula. Oh, I don't even realize those names rhyme. And we get more insight into why the family thinks that Mary is ruined. she tells them about having a stillborn birth, how she became a servant slash wet nurse for a rich family who wouldn't let her leave for a while.

They took her to Cuba with them. But eventually Mary was able to leave and come back home. I had a lot of questions about that story. Same. I had to watch it two or three times that scene before I started. to kind of understand what was being talked about? I watched the whole thing with subtitles. I'm from the South, but I was like,

no, this got to be subtitled deep. And she talks about nursing the child via this wet nursing job that kidnapped her. But she also talks about, like, I fixed the titty. And I was like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are we saying? What does that mean? What did she do to her tits?

I wasn't sure if it was possible that that was like shorthand for something. else because I was like was she talking because if she was talking about an actual titty I'm very confused and I think that was like one of the times where I'm like I'm assuming this is like shorthand that I don't know about I don't know it's like interesting because Julie dash like in in all of her interviews about this like was very and like rightfully so was like I did not want to like over explain the world in a way that the characters wouldn't have had the need to do but But there are moments where I was like, wait a second. I don't know.

Like, not only do I not understand the context, I don't even know where I would look for the context. I don't know where I would look to try to understand this. I took it literally because as a wet nurse, like, especially if you had a stillborn birth, your body is producing a lot of milk and you are the wet nurse to someone else. And I guess if you're forced to continue doing that, to say, fix the titty to me would mean she did something to make it so that she no longer was producing. And in that case, I'm like, oh, no, what did you do to your boobs? Like, I'm, like, I'm, like, concerned from, like, a self-harm perspective. I don't know.

Yeah. Well, and also just, like, for the time, it's just so, it's so upsetting after, yeah, after, you know, however much time in the movie, like, hearing that Mary is ruined and then hearing the reason, like, you can, you can tell just because it's 1902, you're like, whatever the reason is, is not going to be her fault. Yeah. But that was an incredibly traumatic thing to not be her fault. Because she was like trafficked basically. Like it just, yeah. For sure. Well, that's what also was a little confusing to me is that I didn't understand exactly why other characters would perceive her experience as being the thing that ruined her.

But I was just like, it must just be like old-timey religious. Well, was she married when she got. pregnant. Oh, maybe. I don't think she had a husband at that time, which is probably why she ended up needing to go be a wet nurse because she didn't have someone to support her. So she might have been a victim of sexual assault, but also she might have just slept with someone but got pregnant and then had to leave the island essentially. And that's why she is perceived to be ruined. Yes. Okay, okay, okay. That's how I took it. Yeah. Yeah. No. No, I think that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we learn all of that. We also see other family members throughout the movie kind of going about their day. They're preparing food. They're packing up their belongings for this migration. They're playing on the beach. We also occasionally get voiceover from the unborn child, as well as, like, flashes of her running around the island. She's sort of like watching over different family members, almost.

like a specter who is not born yet. Yeah, like a helpful prespector. A pre-spector. I mean, aren't we all pre-spectors? But yes. Yeah. Babies are future ghosts as well. Exactly. So we see that.

You can tell because I'm like, which child is which child? Because we never like really meet any of the children. but she's the one with like the blue bow in her hair and you could also tell that it's her because the movie slows down into like a really slow frame rate every time she's on screens. You're like, okay, that's the ghost baby. I thought about that frame rate so often

because it's clear that they shot it at regular speed and then just essentially repeated every frame twice or even if they did slow it down a little bit, it's the amount of slowing down you can do within the camera. So that's like maybe like half speed. speed, but even that doesn't give the visual effect that you're looking for. So it's like kind of choppy in this way that was very popular in the early 90s because it reminded, yeah, it felt very 90s.

Yes. And lo and behold, it's a movie from the 90s. If you can believe. Imagine that. Anyway, so we see all these things. We also see Mr. Sneed taking photos of different family members throughout the film. There's a scene where various women in the family. talk about Nana, how she is staying behind on the island and how different characters feel about

that. Hagar criticizes Nana's spiritual practices and thinks they're archaic. Again, it's that like push and pull between Christianity and hoodoo. There's also at least one Muslim member of the family, perhaps more than one. I was also kind of losing track of the men because they're rarely properly introduced. Hell yeah. Always a treat. You're like, who is that? Yeah.

Whatever. There's the brother and the guy he fights with that. Those are two black men and everyone else is just kind of there. Eli and Mr. Sneed. And then there's a character named Bilal. He's one of the Muslim characters. Yeah. Yeah.

So we get glimpses of some men, but it really is mostly just, aside from Eli and to a lesser extent, Mr. Sneed. the photographer, all the other men, I'm like, I don't know who that is. And also, I mean, again, just like the rare movie where we mostly only know who the men are in relation to the women. Yes. Because it's like we really don't know anything about St. Julian Last Child other than he is in love with one of the women.

I like that, I don't know, so rare, so rare. Yeah. What a treat. Yeah. to be like, who is that? Oh, that's someone's boyfriend. I don't know. Yeah. Like, yes. Great. We also get voiceover from various characters talking about the names they give their babies and what the names mean about how during slavery and slavers did not keep good records of black people's births, deaths, marriages.

So enslaved Africans had to keep track of their own family ties. And they talk about how it's important. that they keep up those ties and the family and cultural traditions wherever they go. Then Yula tells a story about how when their ancestors were trafficked to North America, they got off the ship, looked around, and then turned right back around and started walking on the water back to Africa. A story that later gets like, obviously this is like folklore. Yeah. But then one of the men, again, ruining. the party says like, actually that didn't happen and actually they all drowned. And it's like,

well, yeah, but like, you're ruining it. Let them. It's so much more romantic you think that they walk back to Africa than they just drowned to death. Come on. I mean, that that was a, that was something that, I mean, I guess again, just like how poorly educated we are on black history in American public schools. But yeah, the story about the, I mean, they refer to it as a mass suicide. on Igbo landing, I'd never heard about it before. Nor did I. I hadn't either. And that, like, I mean, it sounds bad because it is bad,

but also that it was this act of, like, mass resistance toward enslavement, like, is people should learn about it. Yeah. Yeah. I bravely said. Wow. In case you didn't know, people should learn about the history of the country they live in, and this includes this.

I, I mean, we've recently come to this conclusion. Yeah. Yeah, right now in 2026, we value history. I'm kidding. We don't. It turns out if you don't preserve it, people will just make shit up. Bro! I'm sorry, I read the news today and that was on me because I was like, oh, so these people dumb then.

Okay. So we just believe in anything they say, okay, okay. Sad but true. Yeah, it's scary. But let's think about this movie that's nice. It's pretty. Yes, yes, yes. It's beautiful.

It's so pretty. Nana tells the other women about the family connection they have to maintain after they migrate north. She's growing more and more upset that everyone is leaving the island. Mary starts crying, saying that she wants to stay on the island with Nana. And then Hagar butts in. Always talking about Mary being quote unquote ruined. And so Yula is like, well, you must think that I'm ruined. too. Yeah. And she gives this great monologue about how maybe all the women on the island are

ruined. She says, we live our lives always expecting the worst because we feel we don't deserve any better. She talks about their generational trauma that even God can't protect or heal them from. She says maybe they're migrating because they're trying to run away from their pain and their past and their scars, but they need to face these things head on and change their way of thinking, and they need to accept and love Mary. And the family ponderes this. We see a flashback with young Nana and her husband, her husband, talking about planting things in the dust, hence the title of the movie, Daughters of the Dust.

And then back in the present, Nana says that she will remain on the island and continue planting things while she's still alive. And she's like, by the way, when I die, I am not going to heaven because I don't believe in all that. Yeah. And this, I mean, Nana is such a wonderful character for so many reasons. But I do like that she is like not afraid to. She's like, and while you're on your way out, God is made up. God is a fantasy. see you're like oh awesome awesome she has made this object i don't know quite how to describe it but

she has bound a book and a pouch full of her hair and her mother's hair there are some roots and possibly herbs like she's bound all these things together again like a religious artifact kind of thing and she wants all the members of of the family to kiss it as a way of like saying farewell and she's like that's how she's sending them off and most of the family does it although viola and hagar again the very christian characters are like this is blasphemy this is devilry blah blah blah it's like a lovely a lovely gesture she makes that of course the hyper christian characters are unforgivably weird about yeah have you heard this one right it's like you don't have to believe in who to just be like hey this is a nice moment for us to be able to say goodbye.

And then these two ladies come and ruin shit, starting yelling at everybody being like, don't do this. We're upset. And it's like, oh my gosh, if you had like a slightly looser corset gathering thing, maybe you'd be happier because this is some bullshit. Also, they're the ones with their hair pinned up in this very tight way.

And it's like, when someone's braids are too tight, and it's like, oh, boo, you just need to relax. Like, just let those things get loose and calm down. It is cool, though, how, like, throughout there's no, like, clean. I sort of, I think just because I'm so, like, movie-brained, aka smooth-brained. I was waiting for, smoothie-brained. Smoothie. But I was waiting for, like, the moment in the movie where everyone puts aside their differences and has a nice moment.

And, like, of course, that does not happen. Like, they're, instead, it's, like, truer to life. and there's a moment where everyone sort of is like, all right, we've got a, we got to muscle through this. You know, like there's not a clean solution, anything, which makes total sense given the situation. But I was, I like wrote it down. I was like, oh, right. Not every movie features like. And then we put our differences aside so the movie could end.

It's like, no, of course not. I don't know. Totally. Yeah. That's the difference between this and a Tyler Perry movie. I mean, that's, that's the smooth brain I'm operas. And I mean the direction and the writing and like everything else, but also because. But also the narrative structure.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, we we have the very Christian characters being like, ah, except Viola does come around and she kisses Nana's object. Yes. We then cut to most of the family on a dock waiting for the boat to take them to the mainland. although Iona decides to stay on the island to be with her beloved St. Julian Mastchild. Awesome.

That moment was not to bring Titanic into it, but was very rose jumping off the. Oh my gosh. I was like, yeah, jumping off the boat to be with your hot boyfriend. I love it. On a horse. On a horseback. Yeah. Very romantic.

Yes. They did those visuals nice because he comes across a field. poot-pud-pud-do-do and then she hops on with her long dress from 1902 or whatever and I'm like good job you're like exactly so Iona stays behind and so do Yula and Eli they stay with nana pizant to raise their baby aka the unborn child narrator on the island and that's the end So let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss. The newest tracks. Let's go.

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Okay, I think for people who haven't seen this, which is, I think a lot of people have not seen this, They may have heard it in relation to lemonade, but it isn't as widely seen as, say, the color purple and other movies that have been available consistently. For those of you who are thinking of watching this movie, I think it's really important that you know that it's only 113 minutes. I know that that's silly and specific, but, like, truly, when I sat down last night to rewatch this and was like, is this going to be the rest of my night? And I saw that 113 minutes.

I was like, yes, it's not. I have time. So you have time and you should watch this movie. Absolutely. I was also, this is very silly and somewhat unrelated, but I know that there's like a lot of historical context to talk about that is also like related to Julie Dash's family specifically. And this is sort of like a, I don't know if this,

I never quite understand what auto fiction is supposed to mean. But like it is sort of a fictionalized history of her family that is based in her actual family history, right? but you know early in the movie where we're talking about like this specific setting and gala culture in general i was like wait a second why do i sort of know about this and it's because there was a chill yes okay canese there was a children's show um that was on nicolodian in the 90s that they would show reruns of called gala gala gala island that it was like the best show ever i remember it so clearly and so obviously like it was whatever or my brain was very squishy when I was watching it.

But there was like a really successful children's show that there's weirdly a lot of millennials walking around with a very, very slight but memorable knowledge of this culture. I just wanted to shout that out because I hadn't thought about it in years, but it was made by this couple Ron Days and Natalie Day's real-life couple. Ron also, I think similar to Julie Dash, had, you know, he'd actually grown up there. And in college, I mean, there was like a whole short doc I watched about it.

But in college, you know, he was, had a lot of internalized shame specifically about the language and dialect. And then with time was able to realize that it was like the college's problem, not his. And then he sort of devoted his life to storytelling and historical preservation of his culture. And it ended up being on Nick Jr. for like 10 years. Yeah. It's a great, great show. I feel like they're truly not making them like that anymore. I did not know about this at all.

You didn't? What? Well, I grew up without cable. Oh. And so I missed out on so much. I sounded so bad for her. Like, oh, like you didn't have cable? Oh my gosh.

That's the most classest nonsense I've ever said. I'm sorry. Don't come at me. Lots of people don't have cable. I'm sorry. But this, I mean, in this case, there was like, I mean, again, I'm like, I don't hang out with small children currently. I do have nieces and nephews, but like, I just don't think that there's, like, shows this, like, culturally specific that are really around anymore. And I loved it.

I loved it. They also had, like, a Muppet, of course, because it was the 90s on Nickelodeon. They had a Muppet named Binya Bina. And I had a backpack. And I was just like, wait a second. I just, I, because I just hadn't seen this movie before, I was like, I know, like, two whole things, which is more than I thought I would know. So for fellow millennials that remember watching Gola Gola Island, shout out to all of you. Hell yeah. And I guess with that, let's get into some more historical context.

Yeah, I did some research on Julie Dash that I'd like to share. She's so interesting. I know. I didn't do any reading and I'm so excited to find all this out. Yay. So one of the reasons this movie is so significant, is that it was the first feature-length film directed by a black American woman to get a general theatrical release in the U.S.

And just a reminder, this was in 1992. Yeah. Well, two is when it was, like, actually released. Like, it also took a full year to get distribution even after it did great at Sundance. Like, okay. So there were films for 80 years. Yes. And other films by black American women, but like nothing that actually got distribution.

before. I'm just like, that is such a depressing fact. Truly. But there it is. So very monumental film for many reasons, and that being one of them. And then to kind of flash back a little bit into Julie Dash's early career. So she received a master's degree. And I'm sure she never wants to talk about it or bring it up. But she got an MFA from UCLA Film School. Oh, hit. And she's one of the members of what is called the LA Rebellion, which I didn't know about. So thank you Wikipedia for telling me. But the LA Rebellion was a group of black students who studied at specifically UCLA Film School

from the late 1960s to the late 90s. And their mission was to basically create original black cinematic stories. They often made experimental and unconventional. films that rebel, hence the name L.A. Rebellion, against the... Oh, what if I was like... What are you mean? What? Against the racial stereotypes and prejudices present in Hollywood films.

Yeah, she has, like, a bunch of interviews, like, to this effect about how when she was going to college and also just, like, growing up in general, like, most of the black arch who was Black exploitation movies. and how it was an early goal of hers that is like very clearly reflected in this movie to show a black experience that is not a black exploitation movie, but like specifically a gentle or more feminine story. Hell yeah. And she was inspired by the works of authors like Tony Morrison,

Tony Cade Bambara, and Alice Walker. And she was basically like, I want to make movies like those stories. Yeah. And so she began. making short films. There's a small handful that she made in the 70s and 80s, and then she started working on Daughters of the Dust, where, like you said, Jamie, she was inspired by her father's Gullah family, who migrated from a similar place around the same time as the characters in the movie. She originally planned it as a short film with no dialogue, basically just like a visual

account of this family's preparation to migrate. But then she's like, well, what if I make it into a feature? And what if I include dialogue? And so she wrote the screenplay for Daughters of the Dust. And this all took place over the course of like, I think over a decade she was trying to, she was like reconceiving what this movie could look like and then trying to get money to make it. And that's like, I don't know, stuff I find interesting and frustrating is just like how many knows she got when and how uncompromising she was in what she wanted to do because a lot of the feedback she was getting was like in relation to like how the screenplay is composed where it's like a nonlinear narrative that she said was partially inspired by Creole storytelling and how like this ritual and this

remembrance would have actually gone versus like adhering to like once upon a time narratives and then they live happily ever after kind of thing right like the thing I was expecting of like and then they're going to put aside their religious differences like whatever the hell and but but she was very like adamant about like no this is this is like how this would have gone and this is like the lyrical way I want to approach this and so it just took a really long time for her to get the funding to make it happen. It makes so much sense to me when you say that it started off as like a silent short or silent in the way that there is not dialogue because there are so many really beautiful shots in this.

So like even at the beginning when the lady has placed under her bed like a glass and flowers in it, that looks like a painting. It's lit beautifully. And there's lots of these, like it's something I noticed because it's so pacing-wise, different than what we see today, where there are these beautiful shots of people walking on the beach or like dresses or silk or not silk. What is that? Lace.

you can see the different fabric textures and stuff. So she's really playing in the visuals in a nice way where words aren't necessary. But then on top of that, there is this story where these people are saying sometimes silly things to each other. I'm sorry I say it that way, but her speech at the end where she's like, ah, like very upset. I was like, okay, all right, somebody's, someone's getting their capital A acting on. And I see that. Okay, we're submitting for awards. Got it.

Yeah. Just one word, so this is from the book on the production of this movie and also featured on scholarly journal Wikipedia. Julie Dash talking about the structure of this movie and like why she chose to do that. She says, quote, I didn't want to tell a historical drama about African American women in the same way I had seen other dramas. I decided to work with a different type of narrative structure and that the typical male-oriented Western narrative structure was not appropriate. for this particular film. So I let the story unravel and reveal itself in a way in which an African gala would tell the story because that's part of our tradition.

The story unfolds throughout this day and a half in various vignettes. It unfolds and comes back. It's a different way of telling the story. It's totally different and new, which is great. And she's also, I mean, I haven't heard her, and I mean, this is, I've watched like three or four interviews, so maybe she does. But I haven't heard her speak to specific movies that. did this but I mean it's like I you have to imagine that the color purple is sort of on her mind as she is

like and and other stories because that's you know like a story by alice walker that was famously adapted by stevenfieldfield for some reason and you know like it just I don't know I really admire how much she stuck to her guns and like nope this is the way the story is being told and if it takes longer to get it made that way then fine agreed but also it is it drives me up a wall that this is like another thing we talk about on the show all the time that she has in the years since really struggled to get funding for a second big feature she's directed a lot of other things she's directed a lot for television but they're really like she she didn't get the money and the opportunities that you know a white guy in the same position would have gotten

even though this is like considered one of the best movies of the 20th century I'm like it's just it's just makes you want to. Buh. Yeah. There you go. So I also recently saw the color purple for the first time and I read the book. And I feel like this is in direct conversation with that because it is black people and they're not that far.

So these people are in the islands off of South Carolina. That story, I think, takes place Georgia, South Carolina, maybe into North Carolina, I think is where it was filmed. But both of these are groups of people whose lives are affected by. heavy segregation, racist policies, all that. And in the color purple, which is directed by a Jewish man, the white people are there. It is a threat that they're constantly addressing. Here, I love that there are no white people in this movie.

They're just not there. Like, there's the mention that someone potentially a white person raped someone, but you don't know who it is, and it's not their story. They're not there for you to wonder about intent. Nothing. It's just like, this is a bad thing that has happened. We're not skating over it. We're not acting as though this stuff doesn't happen. But the main push of these people's lives is not necessarily that white people are making it difficult. And I really appreciated that. Absolutely. Yeah. Not a white person to be seen on screen. I think someone mentions Teddy Roosevelt. Yeah. In the background. Yeah. But that's basically it. Yeah. Which is like part of, I mean, so, and, and, I because the movie intentionally is not going to like give you the Wikipedia page for the Gullah Ghi people, we will. We will. So in case you did not grow up watching Gala Gala Island, or you received, and you also received a poor American education, a brief primer on who the Gala Gigi people are,

we are learning specifically about this island, Igbo Island. This community came obviously from people in the slave trade who sort of abandoned society. And through demonstrations like that mass suicide in resistance to being enslaved, the Goligichi people were quite secluded from the rest of American culture. Intentionally so, which is like so much of what this movie is about, to the point where they developed their own language, their own dialects, their own food, just an entirely separate culture that I feel like like a lot of cultures that we're not well educated on, including indigenous cultures, is still very much around today. I feel like everybody, you know, in the same way we talk about indigenous cultures is definitely worth saying and that the Goligishi

people are still fighting for funding and land protection and these narratives that are frustrating and familiar. But that this period of time that is reflected in Julie Dashe's personal family history is when, you know, there was a fair amount of Goligichi people who decided to go to the mainland to seek out different opportunities. And that's where you get all the the Christianity of it all, the tools of the colonizer of it all. And this internalized, you know, that we see in the characters that come with Yellow Mary is this internalized dislike for Goligichi culture and yeah so it's very very very basic but there it is i like how they also demonstrated that in a lot of the hairstyles so the hairstyles of the black women ranges from short locks of the

older grandmother character to like um i don't know what the style is called and please don't come for me jesus christ they're going to be so mad at me but it's like where it's like very thin and then a puff at the end and lots of little spikes around the head i think that was there We had twists. We had just all sorts of different styles from the people who seemed like happy to be there. And then the white Christian colonizers, their hair was shaped in such a way as to mimic the white styles of the time. And I like that it's starting to come down when, and I can't remember her name, she was

the Christian lady on the boat at the beginning who was like, oh, we're so prim and proper. Viola. Viola. I didn't like that bitch. But she at the end. And right before she kisses the grandmother's book slash hoodoo thing, you can see some of her hair has come out. And I think that that was probably a choice to demonstrate that she has, instead of being so tightly wound up, some of her hair is now coming out of this very strong structure.

And she will go now over to the book and give it a kiss because she's letting go of some of whatever the fuck was super tight. okay what I wanted to say was shoved up her ass but it just like the tightness of the hair corresponds to me with the tightness of these people being uptight and high and mighty with their Christianity she's also wearing a dress that like comes buttoned all the way up to her neck it's like 95 degrees what are you doing no the hairstyleing and costuming was like a big Julie Dash did like this great interview kind of randomly. I don't know like what the occasion was, but it was like three years ago she did this like longer interview with Vogue where she just sort of talked through the basics of the production specifically with styling because Vogue. But was talking about the wardrobe decisions they were making and the criticism that she received at the time specifically from a white reviewer, if you can believe it.

But it's clearly it's something she brings up in a lot of interviews and something. that really stuck with her. So I'm going to quote here from a film quarterly piece called Sisters are Doing It for Themselves, the Contextual Labor of Black Women by Gyrish Shambu from two years ago. She writes, quote, addressing daughters of the dust, sometimes obtuse critical reception, Dash tells bell hooks of an early and widely read review and variety by a white male critic Todd Carr, which complained that the film, in her words, quote, didn't explain enough about the Gull of People, their culture, their religious traditions, and also disparagingly likened the film to a Laura Ashley commercial. Dash's book was partly a response to such blinkered and incurious critical responses.

But she expands in this vogue piece saying that audiences and specifically like white critics of the early 90s were so used to, in her view, seeing black women in a very particular way and styled in a very particular way that the women in this period piece, piece wearing these flowy white dresses was viewed as inauthentic and pandering. And this was a criticism that she mentions getting a number of times. Right. Right. Because it's like, no, she did the research this was what would have been worn. And it's like, and the costuming is so beautiful and specific. And but she got a lot of pushback from it at the time. And she, you know, attributes it to to a bunch of different things. But she was just like, people were not willing to see black women as feminine.

As feminine, as dignified. Like, there's something strong and dignified and beautiful about the women that they're showing in this thing. And for a white guy to be like, why isn't this movie giving me a Wikipedia article on who the Gullah Ghalagichi people are? I'm upset. And these black women look too proud and put together. Clearly, this is not, like, authentic. I'm just, I'm, like, really pissed off now.

Like, fuck you. Right. So this piece continues. It's really, I don't know, the more I learn about Julie Dash, I'm like, God, we need more movies from her. Quote, in the book, Dash traces the process she followed from idea to script to production. Despite spending 10 years researching gulla culture and traditions, Dash always envisioned Daughters of the Dust as speculative fiction, not a piece of educational ethnography

to inform and enlighten a white audience. To take an example, the hands of formerly enslaved people like Nana are blue-black, bearing the marks of past hard labor in an indigo processing plant. In this, the film deliberately flies against fact. Authoritative sources told Dash that physical contact with indigo, however prolonged, was not likely to leave permanent stands on human skin. Yet, Dash chose to emphasize this counterfactual statement in order to create a new iconographic trope of slavery, one that would join other more familiar ones.

So it goes on from there. But for any critic to accuse her of not doing her research and not making very interesting, intentional choices with how these characters are presenting. And even with Nana's, like Nana is one of the only women who isn't wearing white throughout the movie. And it's because she's wearing indigo, which was, you know, what she spent much of her life planting and harvesting. And anyways, we can link this piece in the description.

But it just is like so frustrating hearing the amount of shit she had to go through, not only to get the movie made, but also to, like, defend it when it was out. Sorry, this is a dumb question, but my mind went there. What's the Sissy Spaceic movie that's like a Terrence Malick movie? And they're like wheat fields and stuff like that. I'm like, unfortunately, when I think Sissy Space like, I think Tuck Everlasting. Wow. And not Harry?

I was like, and Carrie close behind, but first and foremost, Tuck Everlasting, unfortunately. Wait, what? I was like, is it Badlands or Wastlet or whatever? I'm trying to look it up. Thanks. Badlands? Badlands. To me, that's like, this isn't a clear examination and tutorial on white culture, so it's not good.

Right. Why isn't Badlands telling me enough about the history of migration of white people in wherever the fuck that was? Why isn't that? It's not doing its job because I don't know and it should be teaching me. That's crazy. It's so, like, shitty and didactic. And it's also like, I don't know, it's like not like Julie Dash isn't encouraging her audience to learn more about Gola culture, but do it yourself.

Like, Wikipedia.org is a great place to start. In 1991. In 1991. Go to the library. Yeah, actually. Be like Robert Eggers. Go to the library one time. But anyways, yeah, I'm very glad that she documents.

the production process so carefully because it's like whatever a historic document in itself of just what uh fucking ignorant assholes uh the critics of the time were and and she shouldn't be expected to hold the audience's hand through the storytelling it's not a documentary like if she did you guys would be like this is a boring film this you're teaching me too much yeah exactly so it's like Just another example of how with some of the critics of the time, she could not win. Yeah. It's almost as if black women are held to a different standard than other people. Almost.

Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. Should we talk about the story and the movie? I guess. Yeah, sure, sure. He wants you. Like we said, the narrative is a slice of life story with, characters reflecting on the past, pondering the future, they're sharing stories with each other,

you know, passing down stories via oral tradition. We see characters seeking spiritual guidance from their ancestors. We see characters dealing with generational trauma. We also see intergenerational tension as far as cultural practices, religious practices. There's religious tension. Yep. there's gender-based tension. Another thing I really appreciated that I feel like a lot of contemporary movies kind of fail to do is like this movie shows different women having different opinions on gender roles.

Yes. Which I think is like a big fourth wave feminist movie thing that kind of bugs me at this point is like, and we're all women and we all agree that ABC is like, no, well, we're still people. And we're like constantly in conflict about stuff like this. And so I liked even when it was like perspectives that were frustrating that it was like realistic that, you know, of course women, especially women that are living in different places, different generations, all this stuff like are going to feel differently about that. I liked it. I'm just going to put that out there. Yeah, no, it's really great. And we see this bearing out in different ways.

where women are talking of, well, women are talking about men sometimes, but it'll be like Mary, for example, saying something along the lines of like, she wants a man she can depend on, but not be dependent on. Yeah. But otherwise, again, like the men are kind of an afterthought for the most part. They're kind of like on their little side quest on the side. Yeah. They had like church.

They had some robes on or something. People were baptizing people. Whatever. That's not important. Yeah. And then again, the main man that we get to know is Eli by way of this thing that happened where Yula was raped. She's also pregnant. They don't know if this pregnancy was a result of the rape or if her husband, Eli, is the father of her baby.

because of this uncertainty Eli is like frantic he's horrified he's hitting the ground he's breaking bottles in the tree with the bottles he's acting

he's capital A acting yes and I don't I mean correct me if you're wrong I don't think that the movie tells you what the reality ended up being because I don't think it matters yeah I think it doesn't matter but I think it was an intentional choice

like the person who's playing the little girl whose voice we're hearing throughout the movie as the voiceover with a blue ribbon in her hair, that actor is darker skinned than say a Mary or that I don't remember the name of the woman she was with, but that chick was light. Trula. Yeah, Trula. Oh, her maybe girlfriend. Yeah, maybe girlfriend. I thought for daughter for a second. I was like, I don't know what the sit is with this chick, but yes, the very light skin. girl. But the voiceover daughter was much darker. So I feel like in some ways it was trying to be like,

hey, no, it's fine. It's theirs. Because also this little voiceover baby, not the child's name, says stuff about my father. And she's talking about Eli. So I feel like even if they never say directly, like, but no, it's, he is the father and it's fine. They do in some ways try to comfort people a little bit. That does make sense. Yeah, because you do get to, you do see her. Yeah, I guess I was like, my head cannon was like, well, it doesn't matter if someone's your biological father. They're your father. True.

And that's fact. Yeah. But I definitely, and I will say, given that my mom is much lighter skin than I am and I am darker skin than some of my sisters, I think about color gradation quite a bit. So, yeah, I'm like, oh, that kid's darker skin, that is probably not a mixed child. And that makes us. That is not, hey, people come in all different colors and shades and some makes people look as light or as dark as one parent or the other. So that is not a clear indication that is based in 100% scientific fact.

But I do think that there were choices made and that that does put the audience in air quotes at ease a little bit. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely we, we want her to be Eli's trial. But, okay, yeah, that makes sense to me. But also, we don't want sexual assault to happen at all. And we want, and we want Eli to understand that sexual assault isn't a mark on your, on your spouse, maybe before you get married. But 1902 question.

1902. I also, I really did like, and I feel like other movies have shown this in the past, but the reason why she doesn't tell him is not because, like, oh, it will hurt that other person or that she's necessarily afraid for herself, but she is cognizant of if she tells her husband who did this, then he will be putting himself at risk. Yeah. Like, I thought that was an interesting, to have to be concerned, about, A, having been assaulted, B, what are you going to do with this baby and like raising a baby? But C, you want to protect your husband so that if he flies off the handle, he doesn't go and get lynched.

That's a lot. And then they also bringing the anti-lynching laws that some of the people are trying to get passed. I thought it was on the borders of the story, but not necessarily the impetus for the family drama that we were seen. Right. Right. Because yeah, that comes up at the end of the movie, too, when the unborn child is born. But there is one line, I didn't write down which character said it, but it's when the assault is being discussed. Just very offhand, the raping of a colored woman is as common as a fish in the sea.

And just that being said so frankly, and, you know, it's just, I don't know, I thought, yeah, the movie did a really. good and intentional job of showing that like I don't know for for like survivor of assault and specifically a black survivor of assault the assault itself is kind of the tip of the iceberg in terms of the continued trauma that like she has to compartmentalize how she feels in order to protect her husband from experiencing violence and just all of the um I don't know it just it makes me happy that at very least there is like a community of women to talk to. Yeah. And some characters understand that better than others.

Yeah. I really appreciated the scene where Nana is talking to Eli about this, where she says, because Eli is saying like, I look at her and I'm not even sure I want her anymore. I feel like she's not even mine. And Nana responds with, you can't get back what you never owned. Yula never belonged to you. She married you. And it takes him a while for that to sink in.

But yeah, I love that you have this, what, like 90-year-old woman in 1902 saying things that a lot of people don't understand today in 2026. So that was great. And then, you know, you have other, like the camaraderie you see among different women and then also the end. antagonism you see from other women and it's pretty clear where the antagonism is coming from. The church. The church. The church. The Christianity.

Um, but the solidarity that you see, for example, between Yula and Mary is really beautiful and the fact that Yula stands up for Mary during that monologue at the end. And then, yeah, like there are these beautiful moments of, of black joy that we see through the film, the playing that they're all doing and the dancing around on the beach and, you know, preparing dinner and. Yes, I was like, this is filed under movies that made me hungry. Do you like gumbo? I do like gumbo. I don't know that I've ever, I haven't had good gumbo in a very long time. But yes, I do like gumbo. I grew up with gumbo. My mom still makes it. I'm going to be I don't really like it.

Really? I don't like Oprah. I like the whole thing is just like, hey, you want like snot but as a vegetable? And I'm like, no. I love, I like it. I love when food is so dense. I love it. It's so good.

Like, if they fry Oprah, I can eat it. But truly, unless it's like chopped up into little pieces and then mostly the breading around it and then fried, get it out of here. How dare you? Like, somehow they grew this pod of like goop. And then it just tastes okay. Forget it. No, but they love it in this movie. They love it.

They do. And it looks delicious. It looks so good. The cornbread was what got me. Yes. They had cornbread and I was like, I love cornbread. In fact, should I go get some cornbread? I was like, this is a movie that you're like, maybe I need dinner at 11 a.m.

Maybe that. Mm-hmm. What else do we want to talk about? Yeah, what are other standout characters? I mean, it is interesting because this movie is so beautiful and layered and a lot happens and also not a lot happens. I don't know. I really, I liked the structure a lot. I feel like it makes it a little trickier to talk about.

But the structure being like, I don't know, it just felt like this whole ceremony of remembrance. There's another moment that stuck out to me. I don't know at what point in the movie because this movie is so is so vibes. But where they're talking specifically about why they're, part of like why they're doing what they're doing, what the function of storytelling is for their family and for their culture. And, you know, obviously as a tool of remembrance,

but Caitlin, I think like you mentioned earlier about how poorly their lives have been documented by their oppressors and specifically by slave owners. and the ways that they were documented and named, like it put you at physical risk to not know your own story very thoroughly. Yeah. I mean, there was, again, just like a very offhand line of dialogue, but like you had to know who you were and where you came from so that you weren't, you know, like...

To avoid incest. Yes, to avoid incest. And because there's certainly no white slave owner who is going to be thinking about or caring about that. And it was just like, again, just like one of the many lines in this movie that you're just like, oh my God. It's so fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. But like I don't know.

I liked that there was that so much of this is like based in, I don't know, like, whatever, works on a number of levels because it's this fictional family preserving their history for each other. And also Julie Dash, like trying to imagine what preserving her own family's history would be. This is cool. I am frustrated that Julie Dash didn't get to go on and do more. When I was watching this also, I thought of other things where people are in nature in like long dresses. I thought of, do you guys remember the piano? Oh, yes. Yes, Janine Campion, yeah.

Yeah. And I thought about that. And I was like, man, I think I really like stories of women in long dresses by the beach. I think that's like portrait of a lady on fire anyway. I was just going to say. Yeah. And there is the same, yeah, like to be in a flowy dress and to be recalling, yearning, monologuing. Yearning in a flowy dress with the wind of the ocean and the beach and a river sometimes.

But still, yeah, that shit's cool as hell. And when I was a kid, I read Sarah Plain and Tall. Do you guys remember that book? Oh, my gosh. Yes. Kind of. Well, I don't remember what happened. You haven't even thinking about Sarah Plain and Tall?

No, I haven't. I am a short person and when I was a kid I didn't know I was going to be sure. I mean, I had some suspicion, but I am a short person so I don't get to be tall. But I loved that this character, Sarah Plain and Tall, she had on a long dress. It was down to her ankles and she went around and she did stuff. And I think there was wheat and there was hay, whatever. And I was like, I think that's what I'm going to be like when I'm old. I think I'm going to be in like a long dress and the wind is going to catch it.

And I'm going to be dramatically looking over vistas. That's all I want. And this movie has that. And so I'm like, yep, let's do it. Hell, yeah. I am so excited for you to do that. Come be part of my elder commune. You know.

Oh, my God. We're going to grow our hair out to our butts. Like, it's going to be awesome. It's going to be awesome. I have a look all kinds of ways. We're going to wear all kinds of cool stuff. We're going to plant stuff. We're going to be sick as hell.

I'll be there. We're in. We're in. Yes. There is nothing scarier to me. a commune run by a man and nothing more welcoming and thrilling to me than a commune not run by a man. Hell yeah. And going back to things run by women, at least in the context of this movie, the focus on the matriarch and the women in the family. Again, men, we don't know them.

They're barely there. The character of Nana is so mesmerizing. Like, anytime she spoke, you know, she's got this gravelly voice. She like commands this intense presence and you're just like, I could watch her for days. Like it's, she's awesome. The performances are unbelievable. And there was like a really, how Julie Dash made the production work was like it was a mix of union and non-union crew members. The non-union crew members had Gola ancestry and, um,

So it was partially a way to, you know, teach filmmaking to members of the Gulloch community that didn't know about filmmaking as much, but also was a way to, like, ensure that she was being historically accurate and to help the actors, because the actors were actors and had to, you know, had to learn the dialect and the language. Yeah. Yeah, which I'm assuming they did a good job. Like, I am the last person on Earth who could make that call. But I wanted to just sort of close out, going back to what you were saying, Keneas, but like how infuriating it is that Julie Dash hasn't made. She's made, again, like she's made other things, but she hasn't made something on this scale, this like, otoristic sense.

This is the last thing I'll pull from that piece. Sisters are doing it for themselves, the contextual labor of black women. She closes out by saying, there's an additional reason why Daughters of the Dust has taken 30 years to be recognized fully and properly. As is clear from the sight and sound poll, O-Tour Cinema dominates the film canon, and O'Tourism has historically privileged text over context in its processes of evaluation. The outsized weight to awarded to text relative to context especially impacts filmmakers from marginalized communities, such as black women, who tend to face greater structural obstacles in getting films made and thus have small. bodies of work to their name. This disadvantages them in the oturist discourse and consequently in gaining wide and sustained critical attention. Julie Dash is a case in point. 30 years after Daughters of the Dust, she has not been able to obtain financing for a second feature film. While shocking,

her story is not exceptional. Two other black women filmmakers who, like Dash, made remarkable feature debuts that same decade, Colleen Smith with Dry Longsoe and Leslie Harris with just another girl on the IRT, likewise failed to find funding for their second features. Both of their first films are only now belatedly garnering significant critical visibility and praise. So closing that loop out, I mean, it is like it is truly criminal that there are so many directors who are denied opportunities to make more work, particularly because, I mean, like, Julie Dash, luckily she is like alive well in working but she's 73 and to think of how much incredible work she could have done if she did not have to fight tooth and nail to make literally anything is just

like it's infuriating and we should never stop yelling about it I just this is so silly and it's not a direct comp because who I'm talking about is an actor but it infuriates me that Jared Lido has like 80 bites at the apple even though all of his movies have failed in the last like 10 years. Right, right. And it's about to be in something again. It's like a multi, like a hundred million dollar plus thing. And I'm just like, okay, we like the, what you give to Jared Letto, I'm not saying we

give it to everybody, but you've got to give some of that to more people because you're just letting this guy keep being mediocre as hell. And let's give this, let's spread this wealth a little bit. Yeah. I mean, it's like, and going into like that whatever, like O-Tor discourse, it's like you think about how many white male otors, including the ones I like, whose movies never make money. Like, Paul Thomas Anderson's movies rarely make money.

But they're specific and significant, and so he gets to keep making them because he's a white guy. And, like, O-Tor movies, they're not known for making money. But, of course, it always becomes a game of, well, we couldn't get the financing when it's a marginalized artist. Or it's someone whose, you know, second movie wasn't completely perfect and didn't make a shitload of money because marginalized directors have so much more that you're supposed to prove to say, like, it wasn't just, it didn't just break even. It made its budget back 40 times or you don't get another shot.

And meanwhile, you know, Jared Little. Yeah. I mean, just think about the headline after sinners where people were like, but it didn't make it's money back versus like well first of all it did melania was the one of the highest grossing documentaries for this weekend in february you're like wait what it's so like whatever the master didn't make its money back but no one in the history of the world has ever fucking complained about that i mean i've complained about the master several times but not because of that but not because of other reasons i've never seen the master good i did i yeah i

did not like it at all. I didn't like it either. And they were like, this is what acting is about. And I was like, then do I like acting? I don't know. It's truly like if Paul Thomas Anderson, and again, this is like, I'm randomly picking him out. But like, you know, Phantom Thread, one of my favorite movies. But if, you know, if he was a woman, if he was not white, you know, if he was not cis, like this would be such a different discussion. Like the master not performing success like well could have ended his career. career. I mean, and it's like, I don't know. And the fact that Julie Dash, I mean, she talked extensively about how her movie did extremely well at Sundance, at one best cinematography, like all this stuff. It was very critically successful. But it still took a full year to get it in theaters. So it was like a full year after it, you know, first debuted that it became the first movie by a black American woman to be widely distributed. It just is like, it's it just is exhausting. It sounds. It sounds exhausting. Jamie, is part of the reason you like Phantom Thread so much because it is about a woman poisoning a man?

Of course. Of course that's why I like it. For the first hour and a half of Phantom Thread, I'm like, I don't know about this. But then at the end, I was like, oh, she's going to kill. Yeah. They have a freaky little relationship where she's kind of killing him. Yeah. We should cover.

I think Phantom Thread will be like a New Year's movie one year. Oh, that's right. Because there's a New Year's Eve party. It's one of the few New Year's. There's not a lot of New Year's movies, but I count it as one of them. No, you're so true. But yeah, Julie Dash, she was only able to make this movie because she finally got funding after being rejected by a bunch of Hollywood executives.

She got funding from PBS to the tune of RIP. Yeah. She received $800,000. That was the budget for this movie. That's wild. Yeah. That is wild. And it made back its budget.

It earned $1.6 million at the box office. So it doubled its budget. So it doubled its budget. Yeah, so it's like, so what's the problem? So what's the problem? Anything else that anyone wants to talk about? Go see this movie. And if you do, probably don't give your money to Amazon the way I did.

You're better than me. Use canopy because your city likes that. Canopy is not in Brooklyn. It is in Queens, but I don't have a Queens library card. But yeah, get it. But get it from like a nice place. Hell yeah. Yeah.

As we alluded to, the movie does not have any issues as far as bechtel test in the sense that it passes it a lot. Yep. Between a lot of different characters. And then as far as our nipple scale, where we rate the movie based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, zero to five nipples. I mean, I don't see any reason not to award it a full five. I feel like this is a five nipple.

I mean, what's the argument against that? Bro, I was that to be, I was that to say four. No, say more, say more. Like, the thing is, it's good, and we all know it's good. But it's good. There's like, okay, imagine you're eating a cake, but one bite tastes like homework, like that? Like that. It's a good thing.

But there was that one bite that tasted like homework. I mean, I'm saying for it for. If I had to docket for anything, for me, it would be, I wish we would have known more about Trula and the nature of her relationship with Mary. Because I was reading different things that, like, people were speculating that they were lovers. And, like, that's part of why the, like, hyper Christian family members were expressing so much disdain toward Mary. And I was like, why? Like she barely, like, Trula says almost nothing. We barely.

I mean, yeah, I was like, does she have a line? She has, I think, one line at one point. But what is it? I don't even remember. Yeah. You see her a lot. Where is the fanfic? Where is the fan pick?

Can someone get on this? I'm assuming someone did 30 years ago. Sure. But then I was like, okay, well, maybe the reason that we don't really learn anything about her really is because this story is mostly totally. from either the point of view of Nana or the unborn child. So I'm like, well, they probably wouldn't really know what's going on with Trula. So maybe that's why.

But even so, I would have liked to, because if that is a queer relationship, I would have liked to see that explored a bit more. I mean, does she stay on the island? She, something happens like, they're doing that little prayer circle or whatever. And then the light skin lady runs off into the woods or something. So I was like, where's she go? Where's she go? Yeah, I don't know.

Anyway, I think I'll still stick with five nipples because this is such an important entry into the canon of black filmmakers in general and especially black women filmmakers. So five nipples from me. And I'll split them between Julie Dash and Coralie Day who played Nana. She's got a great face. Oh, I love that. That's a great face. And she's like, she's acting without acting. if that makes sense.

Like it's just, there's an effortlessness. Yeah. To what she's doing. Yeah, I'm going to go, I'm going to go five as well. I really, I've, I've really, I don't know what's, my taste has changed. I used to, I don't know, I'm really into a movie that is just like doing its own thing and is very vibes based. And I would include this movie in that where it is not adhering to a specific structure.

I've found myself, like, surprised at the choices that Julie Dash was making. And I just, it's so specific and beautiful and cool. And I at some point was like, I don't know a single thing about any of the men in this movie, really. And so for the Vaxilcast, I have no choice but to give a five. And yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to give all of them to Julie Dash and hope that we get to see another movie from her soon. And the last big project that she discussed, wait, hold on, it came up in the late 20, or at the 2019 Sundance Film Festival, it was announced that Dash's next major project will be a biopic of Angela Davis to be produced by Lionsgate. I have not seen an update on that recently, but she takes her time making her movies, so I'm like looking forward to it. All right.

And then, Keneas, are you sticking with four? I'm sticking with four Nipples on the Nipple Scale. I want to give two to Julie Dash. I want to give one to the location because damn, that was beautiful. I'm sorry. Beautiful, yeah.

Where I'm from, but I'm like, the views of the water, the views on the beach, the views in the trees, them in those gorgeous dresses laying against a tree. I was just mesmerized and I 100% see why Beyonce

saw that, probably Beyonce's designers, let's be real, but saw that and was like, like, oh, I want to use this as part of the basis for my lemonade aesthetics. So that, and then the last one to, did you say it's Coralie Day, like the old woman? Coralie Day, yeah.

I'm like, I want to be an old woman in a long dress so bad. I would love that. And she was cool as hell. And she had short hair. I love it when, like, as an old lady, you don't have to have long hair. It's like, hey, I'm old. It's cut short. I get to live my life.

Leave me alone. And I love that. Hell yeah. Thank you so much for joining us for an eighth time. Eighth times the charm, baby. Dude, thank you guys so much for continuing to have me for talking about movies that I love that influence who I am now, who I want to be artistically and who I will be as I age in this country. I love you guys and I think you guys are the Beesneys and I'm excited when I get a chance to be on the Bechtel cast. We love you so much. Can't wait for time number nine.

Throw us a curveball. Let's go. Let's go nuts. It's jackass 3D. Honestly, that would be a very interesting episode. True. So true. Be careful what you say.

I'll do it. I'll do it. I'm careful. Hell yeah. Where can people follow you? Catch your stuff. Catch your shows. Tell us everything.

Okay. So I'm Knieis Mowbley. There isn't another one. So it's me. It's K-E-N-I-C-E-M-O-B-L-E-Y on Instagram mainly, but technically I have, I think, a TikTok, threads and Twitter. I have all those things, but I only really use Instagram because of fascism and limiting my exposure to it.

I am also doing the hot guy draft, which is an event that is near and dear to my heart, wherein comedians form teams of hot guys in the audience votes to say, who has the hottest team. We did one in the fall that was just general themed. This one is on March 22nd at Littlefield in Brooklyn, New York. It is themed daddy. So you can get more information on what is a daddy, who is a daddy, and why is a daddy by following Hot Guy Draft on Instagram and taking the survey rating Hot Guys,

which is Ginger Neutral, in a competition to see who is the most daddy. That is just like the... poetry, music to my ears. I was literally, I was like, I'm speechless. I wish I could go. One day you will be in town. You will be a panelist. You will be one of our contestants.

But regardless, you can vote because this is like a fantasy draft because this is what I care about more than I hear about sports. And we need stats in order to draft with knowledge. And we get those stats by people voting on who is hot, who is not, who is daddy, who is not daddy. Wow. Incredible. Yeah.

When is it March 20? March 22nd. Okay. At 7 p.m. That is a Sunday at 7. I push for it to be earlier because I'm a millennial and I like things at 2 in the afternoon, but they said 7 was the earliest they could do it. Maybe I'll make a trip to New York.

Dude. I want to do it for the hot guys. I'm working on another one and this one I will be like figure it out and get your ass over here. It's first crush is the theme for the one that I'm hoping to do. in like July or August. So first crush, hot guys, think about it.

But yeah, this is a developing thing. Love it. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us. You're always welcome back anytime. You can follow us on also mainly Instagram at Bechtelcast, as well as subscribe to our Matrion at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast, where you can access to brand new episodes every single month.

always on an incredible amazing genius theme that Jamie and I think up as well as access to the entire back catalog of nearing 200 bonus episodes. Wow. Don't miss out. That's all for $5 a month. Wow. What a good bargain. It's a deal. And with that, should we hang out on the beach and make gumbo?

Yeah. But not with too much okra. Yes. Yeah. Hold the okra. That would be great. Thank you so much. I would love that. I'll see you on the beach. Okay, bye. Bye. The Bechtelcast is a production of IHeart Media, hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus.

And me, Caitlin Durante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtenen. And edited by Caitlin Durante. Ever heard of them? That's me. And our logo and merch and all of our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftis. Ever heard of her? Oh, my God. And our theme song, by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan. With vocals by Catherine Voskrasinski. Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo.

For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree slash Bechtelcast. Hi, it's Joe Interestine, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible. Dance with the change. Dance with the breakdowns. The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves.

So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. I'm Clayton Eckerd. In 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would.

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