The Bechdel Cast - Easy A with Isa Mazzei

Episode Date: November 7, 2019

Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Isa Mazzei attach the letter A to their clothes while they discuss Easy A and their A's stand for AWESOME.(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @isaiswrong Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The patriarchy's effin' vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante. And this is our podcast where we look at how women are portrayed in movies. Wow. I was trying to think of a fun intro for today and then all three of us realized that none of us had actually read The Scarlet Letter and so it was impossible to reference it because we'd never read the book. Nor had I seen the Demi Moore version of it. Nor have I. Yeah.

I kind of want to now. Based on the description that she's like naked in the bathtub and doing a fake British accent. I do love a bad accent in a movie. It doesn't take me out of it at all. Pulls me closer. Sure. all it pulls me closer it gets me right where they want me and that passed the Bechdel test it did which is if you're not familiar uh the media metric that we use as a jumping off point uh also called the Bechdel-Wallace test and it requires that two female identifying characters speak to each other in the movie that they're in. They should have names and they should not talk about a man.

Yeah. For at least two lines. Which most movies don't. A lot of them just really don't. They don't even try. I'm excited to talk about the movie today because we've got like a fun mixed bag of a movie. It's got 2010 written all over it it's really having it both ways this movie um but i'm really excited it's been like a long time request we've been getting

this request for years ignoring it for some reason and then our wonderful guest uh was like how have you not done this movie we're like i don't i don't know why this was a hill we chose to die on for so long. It's a lovely movie. It's a fun watch. It's fun. The tooch is in it. Oh, the tooch. He's firing on all cylinders.

My goodness. I can't wait to talk about the tooch. Penn, how do you say his name? Penn Badge. Badgley? Badgley? I don't know. Badgley?

I don't know. Badgley. He's in that very scary show that I watched all of, even though it makes me feel horrible. Oh, which one? He plays a stalker. You. Yeah. It's every, it's so, it's, I think that that show is like so every like over the top problematic

stalker trope that I don't even feel anything watching it. Like it's just so, it's all of them at once. Okay. It's crazy. I probably won't watch it. Yeah, probably don't. We teased our guests, but then we didn't actually introduce her. So let's do that now. She is a screenwriter, producer. She's the writer of the film Cam on Netflix. She's the author of the upcoming memoir, Cam Girl, coming out on November 12th. It's Issa Matzai. Yay. Hi. Hi, guys.

Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for being here. Super stoked. We're cam heads. We're so excited you're here. And we're talking about Easy A. Yes. 2010 teen comedy?

Is that where we're sorting this? Sure. Yeah. Emma Stone's first starring vehicle. Remember the world before Emma Stone I barely do and it's also Amanda Bynes's last yeah and Lelaine is in it for a second yeah she is wait who from Lizzie McGuire yeah Miranda unless she shows up for one line yeah she doesn't even have a name in the movie like her credit is just girl on street or something.

I forgot about that, but it's every, like I checked Lilayne's IMDB, maybe let's say once a year it occurs to me to just check in. And I always see that credit. I'm like, what was that? And now I know. Okay. Very good. She shines.

She does. Lisa Kudrow's in this movie. Oh, yes, she is. In, I think, a role that we'll get to but it reminded me a lot of the jessica williams role in book smart oh sure the way that it plays out and how much i uh didn't care for it but there you go amanda binds is basically playing the same character that mandy moore does in Saved. Which is I love Amanda Bynes to the end

of the year but the Mandy Moore character is way better. Oh sure. I need to re-watch Saved. It's a wild one. That would be an interesting one. We've gotten requests. Man. Listen to the requests. We just stopped ignoring people.

It's not that we're ignoring people. It's that we've gotten requests for probably every movie ever made. We've gotten thousands upon thousands of requests because we're so cool and popular. My aunt made a short film 15 years ago. And while it doesn't have much of a cult following, I think there's a lot to discuss. You're like, we'll get there. This podcast is going to go on for 500 you're like well we'll get there this podcast is gonna go on for 500 years true we'll get there uh so Isa what's your history relationship with the movie Easy A um it's hard to say you know I don't like remember the first time I saw it sure

um I know we had it on DVD and I remember it was a movie that like my sister and I watched over and over and over and over again um both because we liked it but also because it was like one of the last DVDs that we bought that we had you know that like it was right at kind of the end of like buying DVDs and I just I remembered really really relating to Emma Stone in it like a lot so yeah so that's kind of like been my relationship with it it's been a movie that I've like revisited a lot I would say cool since it came out great yeah Jamie what about you uh I remember seeing this movie in theaters it came out when I was like it like my senior year in high school um and so I like went to see it with all my friends and we were I don't know like we loved

it we were really hyped on Emma Stone and I I think in some ways like it felt like pretty different to most of the teen comedies that you see. And yeah, I don't know. I really liked it. I've seen it maybe four or five times before this, but never was thinking about it as hard as I was this past time. Oh, sure. And I think that this is like one of my favorite Stanley Tucci roles. Oh, my goodness. And Patricia Clarkson is great. of my favorite Stanley Tucci roles. Oh, my goodness. And Patricia Clarkson is great.

That's the mother, right? Yeah. She's hilarious. She's so good. Yeah. And I forgot Ali. Oh, this is really the most 2010 movie of all time. Ali Michalka of Ali and AJ.

This is the potential breakup song. Okay. Wait, what character does she play? Can they have a new song too? Church something like that? It's really good. Do they? They just released a song that I heard and I had no idea it was them and it's actually

incredible. That's awesome. Yeah. Wait, what character does she play? She plays Rhiannon. Oh. The best friend. Yeah.

Yeah. That's Alley of AJ? Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So it is the most 2010 movie of all time and uh for that I have no choice but to I mean class of 2010 you gotta love it my goodness what's your history with it I saw it it came out when I was I guess like probably 24 and I wasn't necessarily like the target demo uh having aged out of being a teenager brag but um i liked it i remember

thinking like the jokes were pretty funny the dialogue was like quippy and i enjoyed it but i think i only had seen it that one time and then revisiting it this time i was like oh okay you you tried to do something. And then you only got part of the way there. And then you made a bunch of missteps. Movie. So I'm excited to talk about it. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm psyched. Should I just dive into the recap? Yeah. Okay. And Isa, you can interrupt the recap whenever you want. It's the best part of the recap. Every word. Yes.

I have a lot to say so the story is told partly via our main characters video blog or vlog as the kids are calling it these days i love how prototypical it is in this movie where they're she's like you have to go to freeolive.com. There's a live stream happening there. It won't be saved. That 6 p.m. sharp. Miss it. It was so, it was great. And what she's doing in this vlog is recounting the events of the movie.

So we meet Olive Pendergast. That's Emma Stone's character, she starts out your average invisible teen girl about to graduate from high school in Ojai. Oh, but wait, and she's not like the other girls. She's not like the other girls. Yeah, in Ojai. Yes, California. Ever heard of it?

Probably not. Ojai is a weird place. I've never been. Have you? I feel like they didn't know you. Yeah, I don't think I've ever been. My writing partner is from Ojai, and it place. I've never been. Have you? I feel like they didn't know you. I don't think I've ever been. My writing partner is from Ojai. And it's like very like mine and all you Ojai heads dive into my mentions if I'm getting

this completely wrong. But there's a huge class disparity where it's like the surfer class and then just insanely wealthy people. Oh, interesting. And there's a lot of camps there. Oh, sure. It's like on the edge of like a huge national park i think yeah state park it's a weird fun place my my writing partner's dad is in a surf

cult in ohio oh that's the guy who's in a surf called the barbecue surfers yeah i remember this from our point break episode oh yeah sorry i'll shut up about the barbecue surfers. We've rehashed this before. No, it's quite all right. So they're in Ojai, California. And Olive, yeah, she's, you know, not like the other girls. She's invisible. And to avoid going camping with her best friend, Rhiannon, and her weird family, she lies and says that she has a date that weekend with this guy named George, who we know she just made up. And Rhiannon becomes convinced that Olive lost her virginity with this guy. But instead she was doing that really funny Natasha Bedingfield bit that I love. I got a pocket full of sunshine. I still laugh at it.

Playing it from a greeting card. It's so funny. Great montage. Emma Stone's really good. I like I fluctuate on her so much. But she's amazing in this movie. I tend to agree. Yeah. And so Rhiannon thinks this about Olive. And for some reason, Olive, for reasons that she says she doesn't even understand. She's like, yes, that did happen. I did have sex with him, which is overheard in the bathroom by Marianne Bryant. That's the Amanda Bynes character.

She's like the holier-than-thou religious extremist, like, goody-two-shoes type. Yeah, she's very, like, oppressively religious stereotype. Right. And she starts spreading rumors all over school about Olive having sex. And then suddenly everyone is paying attention to Olive because they think that she has sex. And she tries to tell Marianne that she was just lying about having done that, but it doesn't work. But also like Olive admits that she's like kind of enjoying the attention she's getting for the first time. Because before this she was invisible and then during an english class discussion about the scarlet letter uh marion thomas hayden church

cool guy teacher yes yeah the adults in this movie are maybe too cool but we can talk about that later yeah unrealistic adult portrayal because as an adult right now i am extremely uncool i've never i also there were a few times i mean and it's like a teen movie so it's like who cares but there were a few times where thomas hayden church was doing something dorky that was being very well received in class i'm like you would have been annihilated at brockton high school sir where he's like let me rap about just kidding guys i'm like you would have been on the floor like you would have been just people won't stand for that sure teens will not stand for teachers rapping they won't um so then in during class marion's friend calls

olive a skank and olive responds by calling her a twat. And it gets her sent to the principal's office. And then she gets detention with this kid, Brandon, who is being bullied for being gay. And then they talk about the idea of, like, standing out and blending in. And based on an idea that Olive gives him, Brandon decides to pretend to be straight. at least until like they all graduate and leave this town. Yeah. And he convinces her to help him make people think that the two of them have sex. And she's like, OK, fine.

There's a party tomorrow night. Let's go and pretend to have sex at this party. And then like everyone will overhear and they'll think you're a stud. And they do just that another funny scene yeah jumping on the bed and screaming right the premise is flawed but the scene the payoff is funny sure sure and then afterwards everyone does think that brandon is a stud but then they're looking at Olive and they're like, except for Todd, the pen badgerly. He's not like the other boys. No. He's the mascot.

He's the mascot. She's had a crush on him since she was in eighth grade. They almost kissed back then, but then they didn't because he wasn't ready to kiss yet. And they're friendly and they chat. And then also maybe he even likes her question mark pen badgley he was on gossip girl right i never watched that show i don't know either i think he was thank you okay i think so which is funny because they she references that show in this movie do you think pens in the audience like hollywood's crazy

i do think that he's like that all the time so then she receives a gift card from brandon which one does she i was trying to keep track of who gives her what gift card because that was compelling to me okay target hundred dollar i think target gift card and he gives her a vibrator yeah right he gives her a vibrator which is you know good looking out sure in high school though like I don't know if I believe that right is there a sex shop in Ojai or did he have to drive down to Los Angeles I'll have to fact check this I guess that means they're seniors in high school right yeah they are yeah oh they are they confirm that well because she gets the Natasha Bedingfield card that she gets is a graduation card.

It's like congratulations. Right. With like five bucks in it. Yeah. From her grandma. Got it. Right. So she hears from Rhiannon that everyone thinks that Olive is a dirty skank.

And then they get in a big fight about it. And then Olive decides to double down on this quote dirty skank image so there's a sewing montage because women be sewing and then she shows up to school in this very sultry outfit with a big red a sewed onto her top and we're like what a dork she's making a literary reference in her outfit yeah and then she gets approached by this kid evan who knows the truth about what happened with brandon and he offers all of another hundred dollar gift card to also spread rumors about them doing sex stuff and which turns out to be from auto zone i think it's later confirmed. He offers her a different one, but then when she confronts him later about it,

she's like, it was from AutoZone, and I don't even have a car. It was AutoZone, you're right. I was paying so close attention to this. The gift cards were funny because there was the Home Depot, there was AutoZone. You're like, what is in this for AutoZone? One was like a Bed Bath and beyond coupon yeah yeah yeah yeah not a great negotiator and she eventually agrees to this and then she starts doing it for several other boys in her school as well and then the rumor that olive solicits sex for money also starts spreading rapidly throughout the school. And then things take a turn when she learns that one of her classmates, Micah, which is

Marianne Bryant's boyfriend, got chlamydia from the guidance counselor, Mrs. Griffith, Lisa Kudrow. Thomas Hayden Church's wife. His wife. And Olive agrees to take the fall for it, saying that she's the one who gave Micah chlamydia so that Mrs. Griffith doesn't get fired for having sex with a student. And then people are protesting Olive, led by Marianne Bryant, and they're trying to get her expelled. Rianne joins in for some reason. Yes, can't wait to talk about that. Yeah. 180.

Absolutely. It's because Olive goes on the date with the guy that she likes. But I think she turns on her way before that though. I feel like she joins the Amanda Bynes pack. After the lobster date.

I didn't pick up on that. That makes sense. Meanwhile Todd, the woodchuck the Amanda Bynes after the lobster date. Yeah, that's like the I didn't pick up on that. I think. That makes sense. Yeah. And then meanwhile, Todd, the woodchuck boy Penn Badgley. Yes. Is

he keeps popping up and then she's trying to figure out if she should come clean about everything. And then this guy, Anson, asks her out

on a date. And it turns out that he just went out with her so that he could say that they had sex and he tries to give her the $200 Home Depot gift card and then he tries to kiss her. She has to fight him off. And then Todd shows up right then and he gives her a ride home and he's like, I think you're great. And maybe I can like, I don't know, help you out with this whole thing. thing and because all the guys that she had helped previously refused to come clean about

the whole situation she decides to do this vlog that we've been watching to tell her side of the story which she prefaces by performing a musical number at a school pep rally 2010 because i guess she wishes that her life was ferris bueller's day off one of the more annoying aspects of the movie it for for me yeah i i do like in retrospect like watching that scene like almost 10 years later and being like oh for sure that like everyone on set was like this scene is is going to be iconic. And I did not remember it happening. Did not remember. No. Same.

I did not. Every time I'm like, what is happening? This is going to be in a montage at the Oscar. It's like. And then she rides off with Todd on a lawnmower and then they kiss. And then that's the end of the movie then that's the end of the movie that's the end of the movie kaylee you know what i was really impressed by in easy a what what what i really loved and respected the marriage between stanley tucci and patricia clarkson's characters it seemed very

healthy yes very functional they had fun they were having fun at the house you know what i bet they used what when they were planning. Tell me. Their functional marriage. There's something that comes before a functional marriage and it's a wedding. For many people. For a lot of people. Yeah.

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that wow oh where to where to begin with this there's a lot of uh there's a there's a lot well i here's my initial thoughts right so the movie yes thank you so much thank you for giving me this platform take up space i'm reclaiming my time thank you um this movie does some things right which are progressive and feminist uh and then it does a lot of things that are very wrong. Because one of the themes of the movie, like the core message, let's say, is the double standard of sexually active men being considered studs and sexually active women being considered sluts. And the movie draws attention to that, calls it out, and we're like, woo, yay. But the movie only goes so far with that message because was first of all like in most respects like i

thought especially when i first saw the movie i thought emma stone's character was like the fucking coolest person in the world i was like i wish i were more like this character she is so cool but most of the other women outside of her mom who is like i feel like pretty positive and supportive but like all the other female characters in this story are like vicious and tropey in a lot of ways and you get some shades of gray like with you get a little bit with the Rhiannon character you don't really get that much with the Marianne character but it's it's like this weird I don't know it just felt a little off to me the way that she is basically like, it seems like the movie has decided like,

well, women will turn on each other and call each other sluts. And this is the main problem. You know what I mean? And whereas I feel like kind of the guys end up looking a little more goofy rather than very much a part of it. Sure. And even the mom is kind of, like, slut-shaming. Like, when they have that conversation on the car,

her mom is like, you know, I used to sleep with a ton of people, and it was because I had really low self-esteem, and then I met your dad, and now I'm, like, fine. And so even her mom, like, as supportive as she is, she's still slut-shaming. Right. Yeah. Absolutely.

So, yeah. It's like every female, I i mean everyone in this movie is slut shaming and that's part of the point but it just seems like the female characters especially at that high school were so incredibly vicious the lisa kudrow character is totally sold out and like literally is called like an evil person and i think that this movie wouldn't have treated its main character the same way if she had had sex like the that's what I'm saying yeah yeah like there's no I feel like the implication is well she's a redeemable like I like the end message of the movie like no matter what it's

no one's fucking business right but that's not really what the movie was saying the whole time because because she was a virgin the whole time you don't need to really question what you're supposed to be right i think if that character was actually having a lot of sex with multiple partners i don't think that is not what happened in the movie because i think the movie really comes down against that type of behavior. Yeah. For example, so the romantic storyline with Todd, which there's parts of it I like and parts of it I don't like. The part that I don't like is when they're like in the car, he's giving her a ride home and she's like,

well, haven't you heard all these rumors about me? And he's like, yeah, I've heard them, but I don't believe them. Which implies that he still likes her because he doesn't think she's been sleeping with a bunch of different people implying that if he thought she was sleeping with a bunch of different people he would not like her yeah yeah yeah there's like all these and it's weird because I definitely I don't know I definitely did not pick up on this when I first watched the movie but it is like it's all these little exchanges and lines that the subtext is like well because this is a lie that's the only reason that this

is okay if she were telling the truth she's irredeemable and bad and then it you know so even at the end she says that line where when she's on her vlog.com and she's like you know how shitty it feels to be an outcast warranted or not and you're like what is the warranted or not i didn't even catch that it's just like a little line that you're like okay i like that's the values of this movie aren't really what they're advertising and then a few other lines like the one that you said isa about like her mom being like yeah i slept around because i had no self-worth back then and And then like Lisa Kudrow has a line that says. Oh, my God.

That character is a fucking disaster. Where is it? It's something like. A real whore can't admit it to herself. Trust me. Much less others. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, what's confusing is that there are some characters who are slut shaming and they're framed as being bad and wrong like the amanda bines character and like her whole friend group but then the movie turns around and then like i interpreted that to be like again it's just like a this movie was written by a queer writer but a queer male writer um who i guess like he he went on you know he did interviews around this movie and said that the character brandon was based on his experience in high school. Oh, interesting. Yeah, like it does give you some good subtext. But it does seem like the decision being made by like the writer, director,

whomever else, is that teen girls are so fickle and will turn on you for absolutely no reason and will 180 and I mean I think you almost see that in Rhiannon's character a little bit at the beginning she's like you have to be a slut and then when Emma Stone's character is like okay and then she's like I hate you you're horrible like yeah it's like not it's hard to trace right logic. Like she starts, Rhiannon starts out by talking openly about sex. She like screams the word climax in front of their teacher. Like she's so excited when she thinks that Olive has had sex for the first time. She's like, oh, you've joined the super slut club with me.

And then as soon as Olive starts to get this reputation for reasons that i don't understand she's like well everyone thinks you're a dirty skank and so do i and it's like well which is it like are you excited about like your friend's sexuality or and then i think what happened it's like the writer needed to like heighten the conflict for Olive. So it's like, let's put her in conflict with her best friend. How do I do that? Make her completely change everything about the character that I've established? Like it just doesn't track for me. But see, I actually disagree a little bit because I think my experience in high school was actually I knew girls that were very similar to that and I think maybe to give the writer too much credit but I almost feel like it's pointing a finger at the fact that this kind of like

the toxic ideas that we hold around virginity and chastity with women kind of necessarily pit women against each other in this almost like who's a virgin who's not a virgin who's sluttier who's not sluttier and like I remember there was a girl in my high school who like used to lord her virginity over other people but then it would it turned out that she was like having anal sex the whole time but like her virginity was intact and so it was like always this and then as soon as people found that out then all of a sudden she was slutty and horrible and then others were good and like even girls I knew who were like really proud of being you know slutty and horrible and then others were good and like even girls I knew who were like really proud of being you know slutty there was always like a like a limit and then if you went past that limit

then you were bad and I feel like this like hierarchy of sluttery is actually is is really at least true to my high school experience I don't know if it's true to everyone's high school experience yeah there's a bit of that in my high school as well. Yeah. So I feel like maybe Rhiannon is, like, comfortable with, like, up to a certain point. Sure. Because she does celebrate it until the point where, like, Emma Stone stops telling her about it.

That's true. Right. And then she's like, why aren't you telling me I'm your best friend? Yeah. And then when it gets to be her crush, it's, I mean, honestly, I would join the picket line as well. Don't go on a date with your best friend's crush. It's the rule.

No, and it's super weird that Emma Stone only gets upset that they might get seen. She's like, I don't want them to, I don't want her to see us. But it's like, but you still went. See, I would argue, I wish that we knew more about Rhiannon in general, because I agree with what you're saying. And I think that like, that is like an interesting thing to explore. But we don't really know that much about her. So it was like, hard for me to glean.

Like, we don't really know much about like, what her sexual history is. Because I feel like this whole movie is kind of hinged around like you know exaggeration of what your sexual experience is for social acceptance clout whatever and we don't really know if Rhiannon is you know telling the truth is she exaggerating we don't really know true yeah that's true she's not given a lot of backstory no which is a bummer I feel like there's there's space for that and from the very beginning I was like Emma Stone's not a very good friend to her because she's just like she she lies about well I mean she she lies to get out of that trip and then yeah I don't know Emma Stone at times I like understood her

motivations and other times I was like you're just like fucking yourself over I think they're both not good friends to each other that's true yeah that's really true which is a lot of high school friendships like that that's fair tracks yeah although they're supposed to be like best friends i feel like it's how they're yeah yeah since like forever right random was her desktop image that's like serious friendship but i also i mean and i think this is pretty standard for like teen movies, but I don't think the complications that come with many teen best friendships, like the portrayal of it in this movie and in most teen movies is not very nuanced. Yeah. I think it's like it was clear to me just like based on how their friendship was written.

I was like, I don't think a woman wrote this movie. And then I checked. I was like, nope. Yeah. They did not um because there is there are like it feels like some kernels of like authenticity and i like to see like you know female characters in conflict with each other and like both kind of being assholes in different ways like that's great but it just sometimes it was a little bit uncanny valley to track sure in this one sure sure sure i wanted to touch a little bit more on the romantic storyline with olive and todd and badgley yes

i kept forgetting he was in the movie and then he would show up again i was like oh yeah i guess that this is you know we care about this right yeah he also wasn't given a lot of a story no no he was just kind of there. Right. The little backstory we do get about him is that all of him played Seven Minutes in Heaven when they were in eighth grade. So they go into this room and he's like, oh, actually, I'm not ready to kiss yet. Could we just tell everyone that we kissed? And she's like, sure. And then I liked that, you know, you see like a young boy who's like not ready to kiss because there's like sure and then I liked that you know you see like a young

boy who's like not ready to kiss because there's like so much pressure on boys starting at a very young age to like be sexually active and to like start as soon as possible so I was like oh that's that's nice because like the idea of like a boy not being ready yet there's an idea that there's no such thing as that right of course there is so and it's very damaging and yeah i liked that moment i liked that the little boy was able to be not ready for something and that was like treated very respectfully yeah it wasn't like an emasculation thing it was just like yeah and then so like olive goes on that date with Anson. He tries to surprise kiss her several times. That's framed as being wrong, unwanted, assaulty.

Then by contrast, she gets in the car with Todd and he's been framed as being this like viable romantic option for Olive. Woodchuck Todd. Woodchuck Todd. And then he asks permission to kiss her. She says no. And then he's like visibly disappointed but then he apologizes he's like oh I'm so sorry and she's like no I just mean like I don't want to kiss you right now but I do want to French you some other time so just the fact that we see like

a boy asking for permission to kiss a woman yeah appreciated that taking the no yeah yeah yeah he didn't really push it yeah so that was like oh cool that was a yeah i i liked that scene too but then there was like that weird i mean it's just such a mixed bag it's very mixed where he's like well i want to kiss you because you because you've never had sex because you're intact yeah she even asks that she's like why are you interested in me all of a sudden and then he's this line, which is just kind of a non-answer. He's like, I don't know. Right. And we're all like, do you, though?

Because, like, you know, she's been around this whole time. But all of a sudden, now you're in love with her? I guess. But don't we see her, like, kind of trying to talk to her before, like, the rumors start? Does that happen? I can't totally remember. We see them, like, we see them like we see like they're kind of flirty yeah yeah they have like they have like a moment i guess yeah but he

does like explicitly state like oh well i don't believe those rumors which is why i still have a crush on you right right yeah which is gosh so yeah i don't know and and there i mean this is sort of this like harkens back to like i feel like a million episodes we've done at this point. But the whole, like, obsession with 80s movies, I've found to be so annoying. Right. They're just, like, a montage of movies that we've already fucking, like, what is the dog that gets shot? It's not Lassie. Old Yeller?

Old Yeller. Yeah, we've already Old Yeller'd these movies and Emma Stone's out here like I just wish there were more Judd Nelson you're like no I love John Hughes and then it literally ends with the fist pumping

fist pumping and the lawnmower remember how those movies are extremely shoving two of them together it's a whole thing took a lot out of me that part she like cites these very problematic like rapey movies like 16 candles and breakfast club and it's like oh this is what you're aspiring to well which is again i mean it's very 2010. And it's also, like, another kind of, like, little missed opportunity for, like, it's not even, it's, like, not uncommon for people to be like, oh, I wish my life were like this movie that happened before I was born. But then it just doesn't challenge or examine anything of, like, oh, maybe that shouldn't be what I, and then she just gets it.

But I feel like often that's all we remember about those movies, right? Right. It's like you just remember, like, the iconic moment where you're like overcome with love and emotion and you're like oh it's so beautiful and then you go back and actually watch it you're like oh wait oh this is a disaster disaster uh so that I mean yeah in general the uh there were parts of the Olive Todd romantics it was it's not the worst teen comedy relationship by a long shot sure there's definitely uh room for improvement yeah yeah that's i mean that's that's this whole movie for me it's like we are on the right track i can i can feel it just doesn't

quite go the whole way. Can we talk about the Lisa Kudrow character? That was so frustrating. That was so, and it did remind me a lot of like a very similar storyline and failing of the Jessica Williams character in Booksmart this year where it's like, oh, they want to have, I think something that would have been done in the 80s without making it clear what the age, you know, consent is. But they're just trying to update that, you know, like tropey storyline of like the teacher and the student hooking up. But they're legal, so it's okay.

But it's still not good. And like, yeah, Lisa Kutcher is made out to be such an evil shrew from moment one. Like, it just, it sucked. Right. an evil shrew from moment one like it just it sucked right she's like the first thing we hear her say i think is um i'm the guidance counselor i should know who all my students are especially the ones who dress like prostitutes right yeah i'm supposed to be like teehee and then she just kind of like shoves condoms at her she's like i'm always here to support you and listen to you and then but and emma stone is legitimately trying to talk to her and like she's like, I'm always here to support you and listen to you. And then Emma Stone is legitimately trying to talk to her. And she's like, I want to tell you what's going on because it's terrible and I'm really upset.

And she's just kind of like, here, take the condoms, get out of my office. Right. And then there's that scene, their last scene together, which is like so egregious. And you're like, oh, I hope Lisa Kudrow got paid a lot of money to say this. But that whole scene where this is during sort of the like series of scenes where Emma Stone is going back to the people she's agreed to lie for and say, I can't do this anymore. So she gets Lisa Kudrow and Lisa Kudrow is like, who are people going to believe? They're not going to believe you. They're going to believe me. You're like, oh, right.

Boy, this is so. Yeah, that was like a brutal just, I mean, there's really nothing to sell out with this character because she's presented as unsympathetic. Like, I feel like that's like the best example in this movie of how the movie really feels about women having sex is they like. And then her husband is like perfect. Exactly. Like he does nothing wrong.

He's like the students love him. Everyone loves him. He's devastated. She like Emma Stone apologizes to him on her web blog. That's what really especially drove me crazy about this too is that like Olive takes responsibility for being a homewrecker. And she's like, oh, man, I shouldn't have told. I feel I regret telling him. And it's like you oh, man, I shouldn't have told him. I regret telling him. And it's like, you didn't do anything.

Like, it was these two other parties of Mrs. Griffith and then this Micah kid who ruined that marriage. Not you. And the Micah character by extension, too. It was like even there was like a little something in that character we barely see. Right. But the only reason that he, you know, says, oh, I had sex with Olive Pendergast and she gave me chlamydia was because his like shrewy mom character was like, tell me what happened. She was like literally hitting him in the hospital. Yeah. Yeah. Like in his hospital bed.

So like even that like little moment finds a way to like push the blame off on a female character we barely know he wouldn't have just done it his mom was whacking him at the hospital right and then yeah so it's just like all these little you're just like oh come on we i don't know and and just the i i don't know it was it made clear? I was having trouble figuring out. Was it implied that Lisa Kudrow's character had given Micah chlamydia? What was the? Yes, I believe that is the case. I think that's what Olive said when she like yelled it at the teacher. She was like, your wife gave a student chlamydia.

Well, then also the Micah kid kid when he's like talking on the phone to the person who we don't know who it is yet and he's like i don't care that you gave me chlamydia i still love you and then it cuts to lisa kudrow which is just a total fumble of like handling the storyline with a character who has a sexually transmitted disease it It plays it off as a joke. And it also serves to make Lisa Kudrow's character, I think the movie intends to, by giving her chlamydia, that's a slut-shaming thing

that the movie is doing. And it's supposed to make her less sympathetic. Right, because she didn't get it from Micah. Micah got it from her, as far as we understand. She might have gotten it from her husband, Mr. Griffith, the person that we all are supposed to love. Right.

But probably not. So I guess she got it from someone else. Yeah. So it's like you get punished for having multiple sexual partners. And then it also bothered me. Yeah, exactly. It also bothered me how later Micah was ex like, his grandparents' house in Florida or whatever, and he's still, like, scratching his crotch.

Like, as if chlamydia, you can't just get rid of it. There's antibiotics. It's like, oh, it's enduring forever. He's now tarnished, and it's gross. And I was just like, that's not, you know. It's just like the writer either was making a joke of it or had just not even done a light Google of what that, which sucks because it's like STDs, STIs, whichever, are like so stigmatized and played as a like thoughtless joke in so many. I think in like this genre is like probably one of the more casual offenders of just like playing it off.

And it, you know, it's, it's not helpful to anyone. Yeah. No. And he gets, I mean,

yeah, if you have, if you have chlamydia, you don't have to move to Florida. That's just what I want everyone to know. Just like, it's okay. Don't be exiled.

You can get an antibiotic and it clears up. You literally just move on with your life. It's a miracle. We got to take another quick break, You can get an antibiotic and it clears up. You literally just move on with your life. It's a miracle. We've got to take another quick break, but then we'll come right back. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the

plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. I've been thinking about you.

I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session, 24 hours. BPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything?

You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I felt too seen.

Um, dragged. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. So I basically had what back in the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable. It was just very big, sudden swaps of different meds. What is wrong with me? Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies.

On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in. Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope, the society that created the conditions in the first place will tell you there's something wrong with you. And it will call you a basket case listen to basket case every tuesday on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts can we talk about men wow jamie not to get

controversial on the pod but hey how could you? Yes, go on. I want to talk a little bit about how boys or men, I don't, they're supposed to be boys, but everyone's visibly 25. Sure. But, you know, how the boys who ask Olive to lie for them are portrayed in the movie. Because I thought it was like something that I had to go back and like

rewatch especially that scene with the Evan Evan where we do see at every step of the way starting with Brandon all of has to be convinced I would almost throw the word coerced out there in some cases of to do it in the first place sure where she starts out with the very like 2010 high schooler thoughtless idea of like oh well you don't want people to make fun of you because you're gay just tell them you're straight right you're like okay that's okay yeah but then it's like that i mean the writer is pulling from his own experience from that so i'm like okay uh if that is what's happening but then he you know i feel like the reason that it is okay for them to do that is because they are quote unquote bullied and so it makes it okay for them to ask this unreasonable

favor of olive and like i thought that the evan scene stuck out to me the most as you know because he asks her will you do this for me she says no fuck you and then he says yeah i mean of course you're saying no i'm such a loser i suck but before that though before that yeah he says i'll pay you a hundred dollars also i don't need your permission yeah he threatens her yes which means like i'm going to take advantage of your reputation and exploit it for my own personal gain whether i'm going to do it whether you like it or not and she's furious with him rightfully so and then he does the one he guilts her and says oh i'm just uh you know he calls himself a fat piece of shit and then she takes pity on him

and then she and i feel like the movie they're like oh well of course she would you know like it's just she has every right to be like no like sort this out on your own right go you know go talk to lisa kudrow i don't know like and then just you know tell them that but but she's kind of repeatedly guilted yeah by these outcast misfit guys. And it sort of, I mean, because this movie talks so much about 80s tropes, it feels like almost a John Hughes nerd character that is like toxic, toxic, toxic. Like the Anthony Michael Hall kind of character from those movies. Who is like, I feel entitled to this.

And because I can't have it, you you know you have to do this for me that kind of like coercion narrative which sucks because again it's like it's a there there is the opportunity here for those themes to be like explored a little more thoughtfully and it's the thing that always bugs me is like there's like it would be funnier too if she was like pushing back on this stuff instead of just folding or like negotiating for herself like that's the thing that irritated me too because there's a moment where she's like all right this is happening I'm just gonna own it and I'll just do it but then yeah like we said she's getting like 20% off to the body shop and like you know

an auto zone gift card or whatever and like stuff that she can't actually use. And I really wanted her to like build an empire and be like, actually, you know, I want $500 to the store that I actually shop at. Right. Because in that scene with Evan, she's like, OK, I want a $100 gift card in my locker. The gap. Because it's 2010. The gap. And she says, but we didn't have sex. You can tell people that you like fondled my chest.

And he's like, a hundred bucks is pretty steep for that. Can't you say that? Like you rubbed my pants and I touched your butt and stuff like that. And she's just like, whatever. And maybe it's commentary on how like girls and women are never taught to negotiate. Who knows? It's not. Probably not.

Absolutely not. Well, that then kind of brings up the conversation of sex work. And is this character, could she be considered a sex worker? Yeah, I mean, I think so. Like I think a lot of sex work doesn't have to be literal sex. And a lot of it is not a lot of it isn't and a lot of it is like caretaking and even helping with image and helping with public persona and all of that is a huge element of sex work yeah so i think yeah there's definitely sex work

in this movie i would say for sure but then the movie also like shames sex work and sex workers at different points yeah like it calls her says she dresses like a prostitute or she looks like a stripper but don't worry a high class stripper yeah like for governors i think her dad says that teach yeah says it disappointing i know and then there's a moment where she is talking to the Anson guy and she's like, I'm not actually having sex with people for money with like this like tone of disgust in her voice. It's just like another way that this movie is trying to have it very much both ways where they will like go all the way up to the line of like showing sex work, but they won't call it that and they have to condemn everything else that falls under that umbrella it's only okay because she's not actually sexual right right and yeah it's just oh also she's given gift cards to retail stores because women be shopping yeah there's i know i'm just like that was i i was and then like coded stores, which they play as a joke.

Oftentimes, yeah. They're like, why would a woman want to go to Home Depot? And it's like, okay, well. Bad joke. Just bad joke. Yeah, just not, yeah. Yeah, I was frustrated. I never really thought about how little she negotiates.

Because that's like, I feel like that raises the stakes in a cooler way too if she like has this empire and there's more for her to lose as opposed to she's just taking whatever is offered and it's all a you know reputation game yeah and and i feel like the fact that she doesn't really get anything that she wants out of it just kind of doubles down on the idea that you know like she owes someone something you know like it's just it's yeah you on the idea that, you know, like she owes someone something, you know, like it's just, it's, you know, the moment I did like was when she pays, when she goes on a date with Anson before he like turns on her and she just pays for it with one of the gift cards. I thought that was a cool moment where like in a lot of those movies at that time,

you don't see women paying for dates and she does it without making it. She's just like, yeah, I have money now and I'm going gonna just pay for this lobster dinner no problem um it's kind of a badass moment she's like keep the tip we're we're leaving you know right oh because they go to the lobster they go to the lobster shack and then rihanna's there yeah i have to like sneak out when you run into your ex bestie at lobster shack yeah with her parents oh no also that parent joke is so corny of like we're in california so everyone's like naked they were eating peyote burgers right you're like patchouli burgers you're like what that was like a little i don't know but then i i texted mikaela who's from Ojai, about that scene.

And she was like, oh, that was the only part that I thought they got right about Ojai. She was just like, yeah. But, you know, Ojai heads weigh in. Oh, gosh. Did you feel like that was good Ojai visibility? Let us know. But another set of parents or adults in this movie here are like just like so freaking cool right because man is as much as i love the tooch and he is the best part of every

movie he's in he's very fun but like the like her parents are i don't know it's everyone's just it's like i they're like so much of this you can tell that the writer of this movie has watched a lot of Gilmore Girls based on how this movie is written which I love but I feel like they go the Gilmore Girls style of parenting too to the point where it seems like at some point so it's like your daughter is like having a tough time and you just keep like poking your head in your room being like, hey, don't worry. Bye. And I'm like, OK, this is maybe some parenting. Right, right, right.

That and then a lot of the conversations are like her parents making fun of her for having a gay boyfriend. And she just went like, no like that's not the thing and they both do the I think like the casual they both are like oh I was gay for a couple of weeks in college like that very 2010 thoughtless joke I mean the way queerness is presented in general

was peculiar let's say and it is helpful to know the context of the writer being a gay man who is like pulling from his personal experience and that's part of like what inspired this story that he wrote but again it's just kind of under explored in the actual movie and then the way they talk about it as well like the language that gets used a lot of the times and it never gets challenged you know all of us like oh you know that brandon kid

and rihanna's like oh yeah isn't he a homo and they like say it was a bad time yeah they say like the word homosexual with this just like hint of disdain or dismissive and then like other otherness like oh well he's a homosexual he's a he's different which i think is very 2010 of they're like well i don't have a problem with it but like gross you know like yeah like yeah the having it both ways ness of totally of this like time and then, yeah, we already touched on this, but the straight person encouraging a queer person to suppress your sexuality. And then he's like, oh, hadn't thought of that. You're like, really? And I get a lot of queer young people do end up doing that to some degree in high in high school, because they're trying to, you

know, it's a self-preservation thing. They're trying to avoid being bullied and stuff like that. But, and he gives this, what I thought was like a fairly well done verge of tears monologue where he's talking about being tormented every day at school. And, you know, we can fantasize about how things will be different one day, but this is today and today sucks. And like, please help me. I don't know what I'm going to do. And like. That wasn't, that was like a, that felt like a good authentic yeah yeah i thought so yeah um but yeah i'm interested to hear from our queer listeners uh how they thought queerness in general was depicted in this movie because it just rang a little off it was weird i mean and also the fact that brandon kind of disappears after like when she

goes back to talk to him oh and then there's that very bizarre like problematic huckleberry finn joke that keeps coming back that you're just like has he read huckleberry like it was so brandon is gone he like he finds a boyfriend and then does he finish high school he seems to have run away from he runs away from he seems okay so he drops out and and and leaves but it's like his character we just see him in a flash forward scene with a tasteless joke and that's the last we see it and i think it kind of frames that whole thing as like a good thing it's almost like look he ran away and is in love and everything's fine and it's like he left his home and he's a child and this is probably really bad right yeah but there's no nuance to it it's just like it's a joke it's a joke yep it's just a joke yeah race in general is another thing that

is not handled especially well in this movie um yeah it's a very white movie. Most of the cast is white. The school that they go to is predominantly white. I'm not sure how diverse of a town. People of color are just seen in background shots at the high school. Yes. People of color, yeah, they're treated as tokens, props, or punchlines, basically. Olive has an adopted brother who is black, but that just feels like a very tokenized yeah character used for all the jokes about him being adopted too right like yeah that felt a little bit off to me

i was like how does for sure it's played as like oh this is a jovial family moment i'm like but how does he feel about these jokes right all we know about him is that he got b plus on his spelling test that's all we find out about the whole movie and he doesn't want to watch the bucket list oh yeah because why they still get Netflix DVDs in that household and I was like wow important representation um but yeah I feel like her brother is literally just there for Stanley Tucci to be like well it's obvious he's adopted because he's not white like us like that is the function of that character and then and then the way that the huckleberry finn so how is that line first presented i don't want to get it wrong uh yeah i've got it here because

it was cringy the first time and then it came back and then it came back a lot yeah yeah so here's what happens uh early on in the movie, Olive is talking about how, oh, the books we read in school always seem to reflect the teenage angst that we're going through because she's talking about how the Scarlet Ladder relates to what's happening with her in present time.

And then she's like, but the exception is Huckleberry Finn. I don't know any teenage boys who have run away with a big, hulking black guy and then at the end of the movie brandon has run away from home with a black man and then we see them together watching huckleberry finn on film and they're watching it like oh yeah they're like this is us i guess and it's like okay so this black guy is the punchline to this stupid joke that you set up and was stupid then and it's stupid when we see it again. Yeah.

Called back to and it's just like really icky and weird. That was like a joke that you're just like, hmm, has this writer read Huckleberry Finn? It just was confusing. Or ever talked to a black person. Unclear. huckleberry finn it just was confusing or ever talked to a black person unclear uh but yeah i mean the way that the very few non-white characters are treated are literally it's only in regards to their race yeah here's another example there's an indian kid who gives her the like 20 off the bath and body coupon yeah and then oh yeah she calls him amigo and then the voiceover kicks in and says i knew he

wasn't latino but for some reason all these shady backdoor deals had me talking like carlito and then she calls him essay so it's like woof yikes all brown people are the same to emma stone right the movie oh yeah that scene just sucks all over yeah it's very not good very very uncomfortable um yes race in general is um believe it or not not handled well in a movie what unbelievable infuriating uh yeah the the background on uh the other major credit that this writer has is he wrote the um do you remember like the horny charlie brown play dog sees god no no oh i think that a lot of people did it when i was in high school to be edgy but it's like charlie brown is fucked up and he's horny and he also wrote that that makes me uncomfortable okay i i'm probably under underselling it and maybe it's like wonderful,

but I just remember seeing it at like a drama competition and being like, oh my God, why is Charlie Brown so horny? He's 10, but you know, that's, and then the director is Will Gluck, who also has directed Peter Rabbit and Peter Rabbiteter rabbit too well good for him and there you go and that's the beginning middle and end of that incredible yeah did you did did y'all have any other stuff you wanted to my last thing yeah it's that there's a point in the movie where olive notices that her name anagrams to I love,

which presents an opportunity for me to mention how Caitlin Durante anagrams to such things as Latin dancer UTI. Give me a new one. A classic. Nine tit Dracula. Give me a new one. I don't have any new ones, but I just want to,

these are the classics, okay? This is hard. This is the John Hughes ones. Right. These are the 80s ones. Lauren D. Titanic. And then a newer one that I think maybe other people aren't familiar with yet is, but Jamie, you know this one because we texted about it.

A tan clarinet IUD. That's a fun one. Wow, I like that one. Thank you. That's really good. good thanks you have the perfect number of vowels yeah i feel like mine would be very weird well you got two z's lots of z's like what do you do with that oh let's find out just give me a few minutes so i can all work my magic there are tools for this exact topic but yeah i think that's it for me like the the big thing with me for this movie is like there need to be narratives that empower women's sexuality there are almost

none of them and this movie like starts to attempt to do that by calling attention to this double standard but it doesn't take it far enough and it still resorts to a lot of just slut shaming attitudes yeah and other missteps along the way i it's weird this is like kind of a a funny movie to tackle because i do think that it is well intentioned but still kind of just indicates it of the time and probably of the creative team a little bit that they hadn't you know fully worked out because i would be very surprised if you know they looked at this like oh yeah we you know we're not shaming anyone in this i think that that's what they thought is they they were uplifting teen girls i see what they were going for and you know it was 2010 oh actually my real last thought is this um i always appreciate

when a teen movie does not end in like prom or some kind of like. Oh, Caitlin. Yeah. Like an impassioned graduation speech, which they totally could have done too. They could have done.

Instead it ends with the weird, the vlog prior to that. It's that weird, like big musical number at the pep rally. And then it's her like riding off into the sunset with her new hetero boyfriend right like i feel like i would rather it end in graduation than as a john hughes movie right i feel like actually the way i saw it ending was that it ends with a vlog which i actually think is really powerful like i think my last thought is something I think

the film did well which is the reference to the scarlet letter which to be fair I haven't read but my understanding is that in the scarlet letter you know she's forced to wear the a because she's like a supposed adulterer and so she has to wear this a and the a is kind of like this punishment and then I think there's something in the way that Emma Stone decides to label herself with the A and everyone hates her for that. And I think there is a really powerful statement on like women owning their sexuality and having that not be okay that I think the movie does a good job of pointing out. I hadn't thought of that.

Yeah. And in a way the vlog like kind of couching this story is like the ultimate way of Emma Stone trying to own her own narrative and take it back that's true from all these people that have you know made it about themselves and so in that way if you see the ending of the film I mean it does have that little John Hughes like tacked on bit after the vlog the vlog but I think the vlog frame was actually really like a cool thing i did appreciate that yeah i really liked that and i i genuinely like where the movie lands on the topic of they're just like you know that ending line where she's like i might lose my virginity today six months from now on my wedding

night it's no one's goddamn business that's an awesome message to end on and i just wish that everything that happened before it was a little more consistent aligned with that. Totally. But I do, that's like stuff like that where you're like, it was really, they were trying and it was not perfect. And Rhiannon forgives her, I think she like apologizes or

I think Rhiannon has as much to apologize to her as but they're talking on their like sidekicks sidekick all caps to her. But they're talking on their sidekicks. Sidekick, all caps, apology. I am sorry. Maybe I'll move you back into my top eight now. Isa, that's a great point, though, about

her taking on, like, she she's like, here is my version of the story, and I'm telecasting it out. She's basically making a podcast if we think about it. But she's like, I want the truth out there. I do really enjoy that. But the romantic storyline did feel a little wedged in.

And I think that was like a studio notes. I might have been. I didn't hate the way I mean, again, it was like it wasn't the worst teen comedy romantic shoehorn subplot of all time. But, you know, it didn't have to be there. It would have been more powerful if the movie just ended with her being like, yeah, here's my story and I'm telling it. Totally. Fuck you guys. I'm going to college.

Bye. She did have that line in there where she was like, now that I was seen as such like a slut in school like no one actually wanted to date me which is kind of her motivation for going out with Anson again it didn't really come from anywhere so it did feel kind of shoved in there but I did think that was like an interesting point about like of just like how even perceived sexually active girls are yeah exactly this like Madonna whore thing yeah yeah it's trying this movie is trying it really is and i and i and and it is like i mean and we talk about this all the time but like movies that are well-intentioned but flawed in this way pave pave the way for for

movies that are well-intentioned and slightly less flawed right you know progress is slow and i think that scene my favorite scene i think is when she comes out after having sex with brandon and he just so clearly contrasts the two experiences of for sure brandon coming out the hero and her coming out and no one's talking to her some girls give her side eye and she kind of sneaks out of the party like she did something wrong. And that scene to me felt really, really progressive for that time.

Yeah, true. It's a pretty good movie. It's pretty good. But is it an A? Is it an easy A? Maybe not. Well, speaking of, let's rate. But before we do that, does this movie pass the Bechdel test?

It definitely does. It does. Yeah. Multiple times. Between Olive and Rhiannon, although they often talk about George, the fake boy that she didn't have sex with. But George is more of an idea. That's true. So is it?

Does it count? It's not a George is more of an idea. That's true. So is it? Does it count? It's not a man. It's an idea. Olive and Marianne talk, although they mostly talk about how God, he, pronouns, is judging Olive. And then like Olive and her mom talk, but they often talk about Brandon. So a lot of the conversations are about boys and men, but there are definitely exchanges that pass yeah

yeah between multiple characters europe yeah so does it get an a or five nipples on our nipple scale zero to five nipples based on its representation of women um i give it like a it's so hard it's like in the middle it's like really especially i was gonna a two and a half. It's like in the middle. It's like really, especially. I was going to go two and a half. It's 2010. You know, we've only barely started trying to progress as a society in this year. So it's doing its best.

And its best is not very good by our standards. And I think you made a good point about all the other women in the movie. You know, it's like Emma Stone may be pretty good, but everyone else, like, pretty villainized, are made to seem, and even in some ways, even in the ways that are high school realistic, they're just, it just doesn't, the writing doesn't go quite far enough. There's not enough depth given to it.

It is all, even if it's, like, realistic, it's still not really realistic, because there's no depth or backstory or motivation. It all just like they come off mean at all yeah very mean and very petty yeah superficial and and i think that the the male characters are kind of given a free pass they're let off the hook quite a bit especially like yeah evan that guy like he manipulated her and like i mean that kind of reminded me of emma stone's storyline in in super bad except in this one she loses where you know like the jonah hill character was like you never have a crush on me i'm a loser and then she's like but in super bad it's actually

a little bit better because she's like no i don't like you because you are fucking rude and then he's like oh but then they still end up together-ish or something. But at least he doesn't, you know, I was like, he doesn't get what he wants in the same scene. I don't know. Literally two sentences after threatening her. Right, right. And then she's like, oh.

She's like, oh, I guess I feel bad for you. Right, right. Yeah. So I think that the boys trying to coerce Olive are kind of made to be more jokey than being examined for being extremely fucking entitled. Yeah. Yeah, so I'll give it a two and a half because I think the intention of the movie is to expose, like, women are punished for being sexually active. But it just didn't really go all the way.

So two and a half nipples. And I will give one to Amanda Bynes. Not her character, but her as a person. Actually, her character in She's the Man gets one of my nipples. I'm going to just go ahead and give Stanley Tucci another one of my nipples. And then I'll give my half nipple. I'll give it to that poor little brother who just didn't get any justice. His name we don't even remember.

Does he even have a name? What's his name? Justice for little brother. I guess his name was Chip. Okay. Don't remember hearing Chip, but that was his name. Yeah, I'm going to go two and a half as well i think that this movie has its heart in the right place i would wager that it's at least attempting to do more

than most movies in 2010 were attempting yeah i think that it's it's always good to have a female led comedy it's not super common for sure and this movie falls heavier on the comedy side than the romance side which is nice um it's cool that i mean this movie almost definitely made way for more movies like it because it was super successful it was like eight million dollar budget 75 million dollar box office so you know i it has its place in time there's a lot there's i would say about half of it doesn't really sit that well. But it's been almost 10 years since this movie came out. So for its time, I think it was a valiant effort.

And we soldier on to better, more fun movies for everyone involved. We got to do blockers sometime soon. We got to do blockers. Oh. We got to do blockers. Blockers is fun. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Lots to say about that movie.

I've watched blockers, I think on, I've only seen it on planes. Me too. But I've seen it like three times. I've seen it me too. Right? Yeah.

I was like, oh, this will be fun. It's the perfect plane movie. It really is. It's wild. Yeah. It was,

sometimes when I'm like, oh, this movie was made for planes? I'm not sure. It's cool. Yeah, we'll get to that. But'll do I'll do two and a half uh and I'll give I'm gonna give two to Emma Stone this movie like what re-watching it reminded me like why people love her so much like she's she's fun to watch she's very funny I think that like a lesser actress in this part would have been like you know cringy and it

would have you know so sure give two to Emma and then uh yeah I'll give the other half to Ali Michalka sure glad to see she's thriving 10 years ago I don't know she's doing fine oh gosh well I want to be different but I feel like two and a half is like pretty perfect for this because it is trying really hard I feel like it does a good job with like both like toxic masculinity and slut shaming female like all of that it does it's it's hinting at it so I was pleased with that and I remember when I watched it when I was younger feeling particularly with Emma Stone like I was a very big you know reputed slut in high school too and so I really related to that and related to the fact that like I don't know it just it made

me feel good and better about myself I think when it first came out um so yeah so two and a half I feel like is pretty good um I definitely want to give one to Patricia Clarkson um because I feel like even though she does end up kind of slut shaming at the end overall it was like nice to see a mother character who wasn't like forcing like puritanical standards on a daughter very true which I feel like is really often portrayed in movies especially back then and so it was kind of nice to have a mom who like although she didn't fully get there, she was trying to get there. Yeah. And, you know, and, you know, she's like, oh, you can have a boy in your room and, you know, he's gay.

But at least, you know, I don't know. I feel like there was there was something there. Yeah. And then, you know, I want to give one to Emma Stone's lingerie because I think that really, that was really, I really thought like the first moment when she like walked to school in a corset, I was like, oh, there's gonna be a whole dress code thing about this. Right. And, and I thought it was cool how she just kind of like owned wearing lingerie to high

school. Sure. And totally rocked that. So I think that deserves a nipple too. Hell yeah. I liked that they, during the like montage montage where she's revamping her wardrobe, you see the bag that's like, oh, hi, lingerie. You're like, sure, sounds like a business to me.

Also, how did she afford all this nice lingerie? Yeah, everyone is a wealthy person, I guess, in this movie. No teen comedy. Well, maybe that's true for Ojai, as you mentioned. I mean, I guess she's maybe on the, like, she's in rich Ojai, it would appear. There's, I mean, so many teen comedies. I'm like, please, more teen comedies

that don't take place in, like, upper class. Because most teen comedies don't work just the way that they're written unless it's taking place in an upper class setting because uh you know shenanigans are expensive i don't know like really what but but it is like for i mean even i had the same criticism for book smart it's just like every like this movie doesn't work if people don't have infinite privilege to fall back on right so you know well yeah someday someday but that's easy a gang

there it is they did their best and we respect it isa thank you so much for being here thanks for having me this was really fun tell us yes tell us about your book uh yeah my book uh it's a memoir it's funny it's great thank you um i'm i'm scared for it to come out but i'm also really excited i hope it like you know i talk a lot about being a slut in high school in it so it's very relevant to easy i talk a lot about the rumors going around that some were true some weren't so true um and then kind of just like always being labeled the slut and how that kind of like made me realize you know okay i kind of want to go into sex work and seeing kind of what happens next so oh yeah yeah excellent please uh buy the book watch cam

on netflix if you haven't already it is great and where can people follow you on the social medias yes i'm at isa is Awesome. Self-blaming. I'm just wrong about everything, always, all the time. I have no idea what I'm doing. Stumbling along. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for coming in.

This was great. I'm glad we finally got to do the movie. We did, yeah. Are you happy? Jeez. It was fun. I don't know why we avoided it for so long. You can follow us online at Bechdelcast on almost all of the platforms, Twitter, Facebook,

if you're still on that website, Instagram, the whole bit. You can pledge to our Patreon, aka Matreon. It's $5 a month. It gets you two bonus episodes every month. Oh, yeah. And that's at patreon.com slash Bechdelcast. And then if you want some merch, you can go to tpublic.com slash thebechdelcast. And I think that that's all our pluggies.

Yeah. How do we close? Oh, God. It was hard to open, and now how do we close UVA? We should have practiced this. I know. We really should have done some. We should have done like a little coordinated number.

What song? Like a dance number. We should have closed with a little coordinated number. What song? Like a dance number. We should have closed with a song. What is the song that she even sings at the end? I don't even know. I didn't write it. How about this? I got a pocket, got a pocket full of sunshine. I don't know the rest of the lyrics.

It's a classic scene. I gotta love that. It's a classic scene. Okay, bye. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture like mariachis delicious cuisine and even lucha libre

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By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane, what we can do about it, and why we should care. Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In California during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before, try to assassinate the President of the United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson. 26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nickname Squeaky.

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