The Bechdel Cast - Four Weddings and a Funeral with Kate Cheka

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

On this episode, Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Kate Cheka don their Sunday best and discuss Four Weddings and a Funeral (1994)! Follow Kate on Instagram at @katecheka and check out her show at Edinburgh Fringe, The Last Funny Woman!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Do do do do do do do. Oh no, I'm gay and I've had a heart attack. Oh no.

And then... Oh, and then there's a funeral. What's the funeral music? Oh, God. I don't know if there's a go-to funeral. I guess there isn't. I was going to say, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. But I don't think people like, people don't really do that.

Yeah. Yeah. That kind of reminded me of the Darth Vader march, like the Imperial March. Yeah, that felt like Star Wars. Yeah, da, da, do, do, do. Maybe if someone shitty died. I want that to play at my funeral. Something I like about funerals now.

Something I appreciate about the contemporary funeral is that a lot of people just plug their phone in. That's what we did at my dad's funeral. We made like a communal playlist of music he liked and plugged it in. Okay. I was like, what do you mean? I mean, it's just like you just play the music that the person liked. It makes way more sense than like crying music, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Play the sex pistols. Have some fun. Totally. Anyways, they play more generic music. I think, you know, probably in the interest of budget. They're playing kind of... In the movie, you mean? Yes, they're playing low-budget royalty-free music.

Right. Exactly. Because the movie is four weddings and a funeral. The podcast is the Bechtel cast. I'm Caitlin Durante. Who are you, Jamie? My name's Jamie Laugh. I forgot. I truly am like having a, like,

delayed brain. Here's what happened. I had a Celsius at 6 a.m. And then I started to crash at like 9.30. And I was like, I have to, I have to maintain my buzz. So I just got a gigantic coffee. I'm Jamie Loftus. And this is the Bexelcast, the movie where we take a look at your favorite, the podcast where we take, oh no, the podcast where we take a look at your favorite movies using, from an intersectional feminist perspective. using the vexel test as a jumping off point for discussion all of those words felt new in my mouth like i had never said yeah are you okay something is going on where it's going to be one podcast and one funeral um katelin what's the bechal test what the hell is it i'll tell i'll tell you it is a mediametric created by close friend of the show, Alison Bechtel, first appearing in her comic collection Dikes to Watch Out for in the 80s, has since been kind of adapted to a more like mainstream media metric that has many different versions of it. The one that we use is

this. Do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is there a conversation about something other than a man? And then we particularly like it when it's a narratively relevant, meaningful conversation and not dialogue that could be cut out of the movie and nothing would really change. Right. And we'll apply it to four weddings and a funeral today. Did I pay attention if it passes the Bechtel test or not? No, I didn't. Why would you say that at the beginning of the episode? Well, look, this is a chaos episode. I can feel it. We're just, we're loose. I actually, I was just Googling if it passed. And the phrase I googled was Bechtel Tess four sisters and a wedding. I'm not sure what's going on today. Okay.

Amazing. Okay. Nothing's working. Let's just, let's bring our, our guest in here. Oh, okay. Maybe, maybe she'll help stabilize us. Maybe it'll be even more chaotic. We'll see. She's living in the nighttime. We're living in. the day. That's so true because she comes to us from across a sea. She is a comedian. You can check out her show, The Last Funny Woman at Edinburgh Fringe this year in August. And you remember her from our episode on Angus Thongs and Perfect Snogging. It's Kate Chekka. Yay. Welcome back. Thank you for having me. Welcome back. Oh gosh. Thank you. I'm so happy to be back. We're delighted to have you.

It's true. So you've brought us four weddings in a funeral. I did. I resent that you accused me of bringing it to you. Well, um, you did. Yeah, well, I do feel that way. What is your relationship? What's your relationship with this movie?

My relationship with it. It was one of those ones I saw as a child. I guess Richard Curtis is like one of those British things. And so a Richard Curtis movie is one of those British things. And you've seen it as a child and you've been raised with it. And it just feels like a part of your culture, I think is the thing. And I've had issues with other ones of his films like Love Actually, which I'm sure you've done, right? One of our very first.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we're due for a relook, maybe this holiday season. But also we didn't, we didn't care for it the first. Richard Curtis has not fair. He didn't particularly well in our show. No. He doesn't age well usually and I and Love actually,

I thought Love actually was one of my favorite films. I was under the impression. And then on the weekend before Christmas, last Christmas, I woke up in this beautiful two-bedroom flat in North London, Islington, with this man there. He's not that important. But I was, it was a hookup. But then I ended up staying the weekend in his beautiful flat

because he had such a great flat. He had like a claw foot bar. in a fireplace and he kept saying things that I enjoyed like there's bubbly wine in the fridge left over from the Christmas party do you want me to get it I was like yes and like do you want guacamole and I was like yeah great I love it at this house and so I stayed there at the house not for him but for the beautiful house and we watched Love Actually and ate homemade guacamole that does sound nice right I was like wow it's a Christmas romance and then yeah I watched this film and I was like This film is awful.

Did everyone know this? Because I hadn't seen it for so long. We were so, we didn't, we didn't know which way this was going to go. We honestly didn't know. I was, it was like, this film's horrible. Like it's the treatment of women,

of people of color. I was like, this is a bad film. And it's so odd because I was under the impression I, it was one of my favorite films. But no, wrong. I think a lot of us have had that journey with many such cases.

Yeah. But how do you feel about four weddings and a funeral now? I watched it quite recently, and I didn't feel the same visceral, this is bad. But if we're going to look at it through a feminist intersectional lens, I don't think it does very good. But they're somehow with this film, and I don't know why, I'm more nostalgic towards it. Interesting. Sure. Yeah.

Do you think maybe because it's just about? bit older. Like it was with you for a longer time and an earlier age. Yeah, I think so there's something about the 2000 line, the year 2000, where there's like, you can forgive things that happened in the 20th century. It was a different time. Can you forgive them if they happened in the 20th century? It was a different century. Right. Whereas the 21st century, despite the handful of years between these films is a different century and by the 2000s we needed to know. A different millennium.

Yeah. So I guess maybe it's that. Yeah, yeah. I do. I felt like there's a version of Hugh Grant's face. Hugh Grant in his 30s is like a completely different vibe to contemporary Hugh Grant. They're all great. But I feel like

Hugh Grant, for me, age is like a fine wine. We, you know, we have to get through four weddings and a funeral to get to Paddington to. Kind of Tell me about it. Performance, as Caitlin, I cited before, generational performance. And, but there's also, I don't know, I'm curious, Caitlin, what's your history with this movie? Well, I saw it for the first time in the great Caitlin movie binge of 2005.

Sure. I do not care for it at the time. I watched it again twice for a podcast that I guested on in. 2021 called 500 Greatest Films podcast, hosted by my buds, Hector and Keller. Oh, yes. I went on that as well. I forget what movie I covered. Who can say?

But I really waxed poetic on that episode about how much I deeply hate this movie. Wow. I didn't know that you, you disliking this movie went back so far. Yeah. I have a long history of really loathing. this film. Wow. And I thought maybe I was like, look, it's been five years since then.

Maybe I'll find something appealing about it. And there are little nuggets of things that I don't hate, and we'll talk about them. But by and large, I hate this movie so much. So sorry in advance to all of our listeners. Love this movie. I am going to be taking a massive dump on it. You know, and normally when kids, Caitlin is taking a massive dump.

I tend to fall somewhere. I tend to fall somewhere in the middle. However, I will be joining you today and taking a massive dump. I really, like, for reasons that have to do with our podcast and reasons that don't, the barrier gaze in four weddings and a funeral is so egregious and pisses me right off. Right from the jump, I was like, if I literally wrote down at the beginning, if one of our only identifiably queer characters is the funeral, I'm going to blow my house up. And so it was and so it was.

But yeah, I think honestly for me, I'd never seen this movie before. I mix it up with another movie. I forget what it is. I know that there was a remake of this movie that came out. Yeah, Mindy Kaling did a series in 2019, I think. What? Okay. I did not watch that either. But yeah, I had never seen it before. And I honestly, like, I just thought it was boring. Honestly, that was, I think the movie's worst crime for me is I was bored and I did, like, the only characters I, the only character I like died. So, you know, so I would say I did not like it. And also, even given the period, because I can, I totally agree. Like, there are certain comedies. and rom-coms that you're like, you know, it's worth the monkey paw situation that you put yourself

into by watching it. But this movie, for me, on every level, there are better Hugh Grant movies in the 90s to watch. There are better Richard Curtis movies in the 90s to watch. Like, it just, I can't do it. I still haven't seen Notting Hill. But of the other Richard Curtis movies we've covered on the pod, I think my favorite is Mamma Mia, here we go again. which he is a credited writer on.

So there you go. He has a story by credit, I think. Yeah, his filmography is wild because I think... Randomly Warhorse. Warhorse. He randomly wrote Warhorse. That and then... So bizarre.

Notting Hill, Love Actually, Bridget Jones Diary. And Bridget Jones, too. He's also deep into Rowan Atkinson. Oh, he wrote... He is... Mr. Bean. He's Mr.... Well, he's...

Well, he's not Mr. Bean. Bean. He's Mr. Mr. Bean. Yeah, he's Mr. Bean. We got there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Also, Rowan Atkinson, oh, my God. Every time I see Rowan Atkinson, I think of the James A.caster special.

Oh. My favorite story ever about how James A.caster's fiancee dumped him for Mr. Bean and then married Mr. Bean and had Mr. Bean's baby. Wow. Like, every time something bad happens to me, I'm like, damn. At least it wasn't bad. Well, at least my fiance didn't leave me for Mr. Bean. Bean. That would be really bad. There's still time.

I love the idea that James Acastr is a gateway for Mr. Bean. It's true. And I'm sure that given his exact age, he probably loved Mr. Bean, too. That had to be, like, devastating on many levels. For sure. Tourmetizing. Thoughts and prayers to James Abbottaker. He's fine.

He's fine. Yeah. Yeah. He's doing just great. So, yeah, Richard Curtis, directed by Mike Newell who I think has mostly done a lot of British things that I am not familiar with. And then he directed one Harry Potter movie. He killed Robert Pattinson.

That's to me. Yeah. He what? That's the only thing I remember from that particular Harry Potter movie is that Harry Potter has long hair and Robert Pattinson dies. I think that's all that happens. I'm sure. Who cares at this time?

Yeah, who fucking cares when it was written by... History is greatest film. A transphobe piece of shit. Put that all in the trash. Shall we take a break and then come back for the recap? Let's do it. You've heard the chaos. Now you can see it.

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Listen to Sweet 305 with Lelepons as part of my Culture Podcast Network on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Let's check in. Kate, are you mad at us? I know. I'm just like, I'm interested, open-minded to hear. Maybe it's a cultural thing and I can argue.

Very well could be. that this is just so very British. I wonder that the whole time where I'm like, am I just too American to enjoy this movie? That's what I'm wondering. Well, for me, like, I love a lot of British humor. I love the full Monty is one of my favorite movies. I love, like, Simon Pegg penned films.

Monty Python, etc. Yeah. I love all of these things. Like, I'm cultured and know about Britain. I exactly I know that Caitlin's about to say Stathlet's Flats. I know you're about to drop it Staphlets Flats is the best show ever made Yeah so I

I enjoy a lot of British humor It's just that this movie To me isn't funny Sorry sorry I think it's so funny Why do I think it's so funny I think it's like a whistle that we can't hear I don't know what it is.

It's yeah, I think I wonder if so because the one thing I was like thinking when I was rewatching this was it's not good in terms of like representization and stuff but boy, is it funny. I'm willing to. I'm willing to be. I'm willing to be swayed. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, look, I've got an open mind and an open heart. Yes. So it's true. It's true. All right. So let's take a look at what happens in the movie. We meet several people as they are getting ready to head to a wedding. One of them being Charles.

This is Hugh Grant of Paddington 2 fame. Charles and his flatmate, Scarlett, played by Charlotte Coleman. They wake up late and have to rush to the wedding. This will become a motif where he's always late to weddings. Their other friends are sister and brother Fiona and Tom, played by Kristen Scott Thomas and James Fleet. There is a gay couple, Gareth and Matthew, played by Simon Callow and John Hannah. Charles' brother David, played by David Bauer. They all attend the wedding of Angus and Laura.

Also at this wedding is a woman who catches Charles's eye. This is Carrie, played by Andy McDowell. Fiona seems to know her and she says that Carrie is American and a slut. But that does not deter Charles and he approaches her. That's so brave of him. Yeah. He approaches her at the reception, but then immediately makes a fool out of himself in front of an acquaintance of his, played by Simon Coontz, who we all recognize as Martin

the butler in Lindsay Lohan parent trap. I was cheering. I was cheering, cheering, cheering to see Martin the butler. I don't think I've ever seen him in anything else. He just did these two. It was a thrill. I feel like he's a very one of those actors that's in a lot

of us stuff. Okay. Yeah. It's like watching a Mike Lee movie where you're like these people look familiar, but who are they? Yeah. Okay, so Charles gives his best man speech and people are laughing their little asses off. And Carrie seems to think he's funny and charming. Then, you know,

people start dancing. Mr. Bean is there. He's a priest in training. The night wears on. People are getting wasted. One of the bridesmaids, Lydia, thought that she was going to find a hunk at the wedding to sleep with. Like it was going to be a sure thing that she's a bridesmaid, so she's going to have sex. But she can't find anyone. And then this guy, Bernard, is like, I'll do it. And she's like, ooh, yucky. But then later, they start furiously making out and they love it.

And spoiler alert. Sparred it. Spoiler alert. They're the second wedding. Yes. Yes. At the end of the night, Carrie, who Charles thought had left, approaches him and asks him where he's staying that night.

And he's like, oh, I'm staying at my friend's castle. And she's like, oh, well, I'm staying at the boatman where he was originally supposed to stay. So he blows off his friends and goes there to try to run into her again, which he does. There's a part where he's getting cock blocked by some windbag. Yeah. But Carrie invites Charles up to her room and pretty soon they're smooching and then they have sex. Did you catch what the windbag said as well? I thought that was quite dark for a rom-com.

He was like stalking Carrie being like, I have a chance with her. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get to fuck her. And she's actively hiding from him. I find the sofa, yeah. It does feel like, and we'll have a whole conversation about how Carrie's sexuality is discussed within the movie. But it seems like her reputation precedes her in a way that is getting her actively harassed by everyone. And I think if we Bushemi test sort of, well, I guess not as much with Charles because she does approach Charles and indicate interest, which does not happen with anyone else.

Correct. Yes. Yeah. So they have sex and then the next morning, she's like, okay, since we slept together, we have to get married. Just kidding. Ha ha ha. I'm quirky. And then he does the bagillionth. It is wild. We covered it a long time ago, but the long influential tale of, oh my gosh,

fatal attraction, I almost said final destination. I was like, that's not right, that's not right. But the amount of times that fatal attraction is referenced just as a shorthand for like woman who is unhinged,

it happens to this day. That movie really did a dirty one on culture. It really made an impression on insecure men. God forbid Glenn Close do a good job. Jesus. Yeah. Okay, so she like makes a joke and then she's like, okay, bye, I have to go back to America.

See ya. And she leaves and Charles is like, womp, there goes my dream woman. We cut to three months later. It is the wedding of Lydia and Bernard. Once again, Charles and Scarlet are running late to the wedding, so they have to sprint there. The same friend group is there, Fiona, Tom, Matthew, Gareth, David.

And then Mr. Bean is officiating, but it's his first wedding. And so he's really nervous and he does a terrible job in a scene that is, I'm sorry, way too long. and dare I say not funny no I hate it that you make so many cookie mistakes I'm Switzerland here fair okay so then at the reception

guess who's there it's Carrie even though we don't know who she knows at any of these weddings or other events we don't know who she's friends with seriously we don't know we only know the things about her that the plot requires that we know which is that she's had sex with a bunch of people she's had sex with 32

33 people yeah yes not even that many I know well yeah yeah totally not to like make out this I'm not trying to shame her for not having more sex I'm just saying it I don't think it's that deep Yeah, right. I feel like by today's standards, it's... Rookie numbers. This is nothing, yeah. She's basically a virgin.

But the guest lists don't make any sense for this movie. I will say that. Like, it never makes any sense who knows who at these weddings. Like, it doesn't seem like these people know each other, you know? Right. Yeah. The plot just needs them all in the same room. Well, because Charles is the best man at the first man at the first.

wedding with some guy named Angus. And you would think that because he's the best man, he and Angus are, I don't know, best friends, but then we never see Angus again. He's not even at Charles's wedding. Spoiler alert at the end. He's at Charles's wedding. He is? Yeah, it's him and his wife are there and they're holding twins.

Oh, right. Yeah, because every time we see them, that's like how we know how much time has passed is how many kids that couple have. Yeah, because like she gets pregnant and then. And now she's holding twins, yeah. Uh-huh, okay, my mistake. And she's at the funeral. He is at the funeral, yeah.

So Angus is back, but it is odd, because it doesn't feel like Angus is in his best-mate friendship group. So it is odd to be the best man. Mm-hmm. But I think I know people that would choose someone who's like, oh, someone I've known for a long time rather than someone that's... Sure. Yeah, I was, I was going to say, like, sometimes the person who ends up being, like,

having the highest role at your wedding is, like, it's more of like a handshake deal you made when you were 10 years old versus your current closest friend. Yeah. Anyway, Carrie is at the reception who Charles hasn't seen or heard from since the last wedding. And he's very excited to see her. But then she introduces him to her fiancé, Hamish, some pompous old politician. And Charles is like, oh, Bolic. oh bugger

oh twat and the rest of the evening Charles is depressed and he's running into all of his ex-girlfriends we learn that he has said horrible things about all of them including something that was very fat-phobic and then he runs into another ex

Henrietta who is acting quote unquote hysterical and she's crying about how it didn't work out with Charles and he was so non-committal and it broke her heart and stuff like that. Meanwhile, Fiona confides in a random wedding guest that she's in love with someone, but we don't know who, and we'll put a pin in that and come back. There's a woman who approaches David.

We have learned that he is deaf and he uses British sign language. Turns out she has been learning sign language so that they can communicate and so they're signing together and then there's another long scene where the bride and groom come into a room that they didn't realize Charles is in and they start having very ridiculous sex and he has to like try to sneak out. At the end of the night, Charles bumps into Carrie again. Her fiancee has left for the evening. So Carrie invites Charles over for a nightcap. We cut to the next. morning. They're in bed cuddling. They've had sex the night before. And he leaves clearly lamenting that they can't be together. We cut to a month later. Charles receives an invitation for Carrie's

wedding. And then he bumps into her at a shop where I think it's like her registry store, like wedding registry store and everything is like thousands of pounds. Yeah. It seems like it's a lot of of like the kind of thing you see at a museum and say this was unethically stolen yeah that's the vibe at her wedding museum yes exactly yeah she registered at the british museum for the stuff of that big colonial vibes at the wedding registry for sure so they run into each other and carrie invites him to go wedding dress shopping with her there's a dress trying on montage that i think is post to endear the audience to Carrie, but it did not

work for me. I also was like, what kind of, I was curious, well, we'll talk about it, but like, Carrie is because we're kept kind of at arm's length from like Carrie's interior life. I'm like, what is she, what is she

doing by being like, come wedding, dress shopping with me, Guy I've had sex with twice. Like I, I don't understand who these people are to each other. And then at the end, it's like, okay, they're each other's true love. Sure. But, yeah, so many of her actions were confusing to me and also possible to justify only because we know so little of her that like you're like, well, I guess maybe she's the kind of person that does this.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. The only things we know about her are that she has a reputation for being a slave. slut, parentheses pejorative. I don't think the movie sees her as being a slut pejorative, though. I think the movie sees her as being a slut positive.

They just forgot to write a character. Right, right, right, right. We know that she has cheated on her fiancé with Charles. Yes. And has like a really wishy-washy code of ethics about it. She's like, well, once I'm married, I won't cheat. But only because I told by the love of my life that I'd kill him if he'd, cheats on me, so I guess I should not be a hypocrite. I don't know. I kind of, I didn't hate that. I thought I,

I like this woman. I was like, all right, she's, she's, you know, she's flawed, but I'm listening. I didn't, I mean, honestly, most of how her sexuality was presented within the character and by her, I was kind of into and felt, I mean, especially for 1994, kind of like, I thought that the movie was going to pass far more judgment on her than it does. It's one of the only things I enjoyed about this movie. But it's also so frustrating because it's attached to this character who other, like, other than that element of like, she has sex for pleasure and isn't judged by the movie or the romantic lead for that. We know that she, I think that they're like, oh, we sort of find out what her job is. I think she's in like fashion journalism, very sort of vague rom-comy kind of job.

But even that we're only told so that we're told. so that we're told that so she has sex with a lot of fancy guys. Like the only reason we know what her job is is so that we understand that she has a lot of sex. Everything goes back to that with this character for the most part.

So, you know. Including what's about to happen, which is that after the wedding dress trying on montage, they grab a coffee and they're chatting. And she goes through her list of everyone she's had sex with. It's, again, 33 people.

Though she says number 32 was lovely. And guess who's number 32? It's Charles. So he's like, aw, but also. Lovely is like, honestly, lovely's a little vague for me. If someone's citing me and their sexual history and they say lovely, I'm like, okay.

And? Uh-huh. What do you mean? That's not, that's, I mean, that's, I mean, that's, I mean, that's, I mean, that's nice for something casual, but if this is the love of my life, I'm like, you would hope for better than lovely. Right.

You know, whatever. Shrug. I think she's saying it like that because she knows it's about him though. She's like, I enjoyed her sex list. She sort of gave descriptions, but only for some people. Yeah, sometimes she's like 11, 12, 13,

14 was fun or whatever. Yeah. And some, and then we reveal that two of them were together at the same time. She had a threesome. Threesome. I like that for her. That scene is interesting because it's very much like a tip.

For me it was like a tipping point in the movie of like, oh, the way that this scene plays out will very much affect my opinion. And it felt, I'm curious what you both think. It felt like Charles. And it's hard not just to say Hugh Grant because that is sort of the part here. to be honest. But like Charles, it looks like for a moment is deciding whether he's going to judge her and then sort of decides not to. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but that was sort of how I read because we have these like long takes of like him taking this in and like kind of squinting when the list

keeps going. But then he kind of comes back and is cool with it. And then it sort of doesn't come up again, at least between the two of them. And I don't know. Like I didn't hate it. For 1994, I was impressed. I felt like the squinting was like more his own insecurity. Interesting. That's how I read it too.

That he was like, I just haven't had this much sex. And this movie, I think, is basically trying to be like sex is cool. And people that have a lot of sex are cool. You heard it here first. Sex is cool. According to four weddings. That's a vibe I got because there was so much like shagging chat from the get-go. Yeah.

It's a sex-positive movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I read it that way too where she continues on with her list. And Charles is intimidated by her number, which seems to be much higher than his. And then it's confirmed that it is because shortly after. this, he reveals that he's had sex with nine people.

So he's insecure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that conversation happens. And then he has to leave to meet up with his brother David. But then he's like, you know what? Fuck it.

And he turns around and runs after Carrie. And then like blatheringly tells her that he thinks he's in love with her. And she's basically like, oh, that's cute. Okay, best of luck with everything. Then we cut to Carrie and Hamish's wedding in Scotland. Charles is of course late to the wedding. He comes in right as they're saying their I do's

and he's like, damn, bugger, ballics, etc. At the reception, Charles runs into his ex-Henrietta again. and this time she seems more stable and she has a new boyfriend. She basically hints at having an eating disorder. It's all very 1994. Yeah, I wrote, because she says, I weigh almost nothing and I have a new boyfriend. I'm so happy. And it's like, right, the two things that would make a woman happen.

I mean, at almost every phase of, like, every decade of media has a different way of presenting disordered eating. We have simply not moved past it. But this is a very 90s way of view. It almost reminds me of like Monica on Friends, where there is a reference to a character who is now very thin, used to be fat, but you never actually see a fat person.

You see a former fat person bullied. And also she's wearing a fat suit. But that's if you see her. It's a thin actor in a fat. Right. So this, that was a very, I mean, it, not to say that that stopped after the 90s, but it just feels like a very 90s way to even reference fatness as a pejorative. It's not even present. It is past tense. Right. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Okay. So Charles runs into Henrietta again. She seems more stable than last time. And I think this is to establish that, maybe she is romantically viable for Charles question mark to potentially foreshadow something. I don't really know. I was still surprised, honestly, at the end.

That it turns out to be her. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I thought maybe I didn't know. I couldn't remember who it ended up being. And I was just like, oh, her? I thought it was going to be Fiona.

And that would have made me really sad because that would have been so cruel to her. Because what happens next is that Fiona. divulges to Charles that the man that she has been in love with for a very long time is none other than Charles. And they're both just sort of like, oh, shucks. That was, yeah, that was, I thought that, again, like, of the subversive things that this movie does, I was surprised, I guess, by that plot point, and not in a bad way. I appreciated that it also seems like Fiona is bummed out that she's in love with

child. Like she, it seems like she's like, I mean, it is like the, whatever, the curse of being like attracted to a good friend is you also know you're well aware of everything that's wrong with them. Yeah.

So it's like hard to romanticize. But yeah, she's sort of, I thought it was just funny the way that she sort of presents like, yeah, I'm in love with you. I'm just as upset about it as you are. Like it's a bummer,

but, um, You know, I guess I hadn't seen that dynamic presented in quite that way. Right. I liked it because it felt really like old school love, like, where you just like, you like love someone and there's like nothing you can do about it. I don't even know if that would happen to me now. Yeah.

I feel like I'd be too jaded, yeah. Yeah, I'm too jaded. I'd just be like, I wouldn't be even able to get to those levels of feelings for someone. Mm-hmm. Uh-oh. Yeah, I know. I would after 45 seconds. Oh, that's nice.

Sicko. A little freak. No, anyway. So Carrie and Hamish each give a speech at the reception, during which Charles's friend, Gareth, suffers, I think, a heart attack and passes away. And so the funeral part of the title of this movie is his funeral. of his friends attend. I was pissed off.

It is. Pissed off. Don't piss me off. They're like, it's like, of course, yeah, it's four weddings of eight annoying straight people. And we kill one of our only two queer characters. But don't you think that mirrors life? Often, often you go to a lot of weddings of very annoying straight people. That's true. That is true. But it's like, I'm watching this in my spare time.

There's also a line because Matthew gives a very heartfelt eulogy. And he says that Gareth preferred going to funerals over weddings because he liked the idea of going to something that he would actually experience one day because he couldn't experience a wedding since he's gay. And I don't know when or even. Is same-sex marriage? 2014. Okay. Yeah. No, it's very much not legal. We're 10 years away from 20 years away. Yeah.

But I also think, you know, I, even so, even if it was not, you know, legal, there's plenty of like partnership celebrations that happened like with gay couples. For sure. Prior to, like, it could have, it didn't need to be a recognized by the government wedding. We could have had a gay wedding. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Why did we have a gay funeral?

I'm so pissed. A gay. Yeah, it's sad, but I don't know. I think that's one of the bits where it was like, they're secretly gay, surprise, like, the whole time. And I was like, isn't that great that they're secretly gay and like a friend of mine who's also Americans and maybe was like, well, I don't know. It just sort of implies that their friends didn't pay an attention to what was going on in their lives. Like, you should have known that your friends were gay. I thought that they were because they I think they kind of like share an affectionate moment.

I think it's like a kiss on the cheek the first time we see them. So I guess I thought that they were like that they were out and everyone knew the whole movie or that's how I interpret it. No, no one knows. That's the point. Oh. They find out at the funeral. Really? Oh, that did.

Wait, you were under the impression that they knew the whole time those two were gay. Yes. No, no one knows. everyone finds out at the funeral, which is why Charles says afterwards to Tom, we were proud that we were in a friendship group where we were single, but to all intensive purposes, two of us were secretly married. And Tom says, yes, traitors in our midst. No one, oh my God, I'm choking with emotion.

No one knew they were gay until the funeral. That's why it's so like heartbreaking. Wow. Okay. See, that was like where my 1994 goggles were not on. Because I guess when you put it that way, I guess we don't. see other characters acknowledge their relationship, but we as the audience see that they're together right away. So I guess I just, I put something contemporary on it and assumed that, like, of course

everyone knows they're together. Yeah. But also, there's affection between them throughout the whole thing. And like, we know I think that they like live together. But I think people just think they're roommates or like friends. So I had two very different experiences watching this movie within like, a day apart to prep for this episode because all the previous times I watched this movie, I forgot everything. That's the other thing about this movie. As soon, like, if a few days pass, I, like, in a few days from now, everything, every detail will leave me. So when I watched it this time, it was basically like watching it for the first time again. I remembered nothing. So I didn't remember anything about the relationship between Gareth and Matthew. So the first time I watched this the other

day to prep for this episode. It took me till the end of the movie to realize that they had been romantically partnered. Prior to that, I just was like, because I noticed the moments that they like had a little bit of like, you know, Matthew like wipes something off of Garth's beard. We all had such different experiences because I thought from the moment you meet these two characters, I was like, oh, these two are together. Look how like affectionate and sweet they're being. I chalked that up to, again, the first viewing of this movie the other day, to Gareth is like really wacky and zany. And so most of the times when they have a moment like that of like physical embracing or affection,

I just chalked it up to like, he's a goof. Interesting. You're like one of those people that's like in the historians. You know, you go back in history and it's like they shared a bed. one of them inherited the other's wealth. It's like, God, people in the past were goofy. So goofy. My aunt and her friend run a plant business.

It's like she lived alone and she never got married. All of her money went to a woman whose bed she shared for 12 years. And you're like, okay. Well, okay, but then once I realized that they had been partnered that whole time, on my second watch of this movie, aka this morning, I felt from like the whole time, I was like, oh yeah, no, it is clear that they are romantically together. That's so, I guess that there, I mean, obviously in 1994, while, you know, seeing queer characters in movies obviously wasn't completely unheard of. But I do think that it's, especially presentations of gay characters in movies in the 90s, I feel like it's so important because of how prevalent.

and AIDS was in the late 80s into the 90s that all representation specifically of gay men was like very intentional which is why it really really really bothered me that they killed off one of our only gay characters it's just I I hated it I okay I'm like trying to figure out if there is a definitive read of like did people know or not and it seemed I this is blowing my mind this is a very interesting Roershack test. Yeah, I guess for me, that's like one of the key moments of the movie and one of the reasons why I think historically I've always said I quite liked it is like the presence of a gay relationship that isn't out

because I think it kind of is trying to say something about that, about that I don't think for this group of people at the time we're in, actually it would be necessarily be super comfortable to be out. And I think it's the funeral. that forces that out because it's like, because British people will not talk about their feelings, as we can see from this entire movie, including one man who like just doesn't marry the person he wants to marry because he can't be bothered to tell her that he loves her. Well, you tried once and it didn't work, so I guess the rest of his life has to suck and he

has to take a woman down with him. But that's just Britain for you. That's just the British. She's like, we can't process our emotions. and so the entire world has to come down with us because that's our deal as a nation state. But I think, yeah, I guess that's why at the time it was considered quite radical maybe, or not like radical. I don't know if anyone would describe before any since the funeral was radical,

but like poignant that there was like these characters that were gay and no one knew. And then like, but when you love someone and you lose them, you have to admit that you loved them. Right. I agree. And I do, there's a way, it still, it will always bother me that one of the gay characters died and a million boring straight people lived. But I do that's fat. It does feel intentional in a positive way. And again, I'm like trying to put 1994 goggles on. It feels like, intentional in a positive way that their love was in spite of all of the cultural stigma and the fact that even their friends were not completely aware that they were together, that their relationship was an extremely positive and beautiful.

Probably the healthiest relationship of all the characters in the entire movie. Exactly. And I do think the movie's aware of that. I do think the movie's aware of that. And I did like, whatever, the end, like, Polaroids. I love when a movie ends with a couple of Polaroids. It's very parent-trap 1998. Oh, true.

Yeah. But that you see that Matthew, you like finds love again and I thought that's very nice yes yeah I mean again in 1994 the bar was so low for queer representation on screen yeah but the fact that like these characters are like not the butt of a joke ever or like their queerness is never the butt of a joke well and it's not just coded it is like overt they are overt it's I guess you can't really say they're out characters because that's, I guess, not true, even though I didn't realize that. I was, I was, I love that you thought everyone knew.

I just, but then why would the conversation happen afterwards where he's like, we all thought we were single? I was being Mrs. Millennium. I don't know. Because the whole thing is like they have this conversation where they're like, oh my God, crazy that two of our friends were in love this whole time. A similar scene happens in the Fulmonte, actually, where two of the characters on like the dance troop start

hooking up. They like they get together maybe fall in love and no one else in the troop knows about it until at a funeral although it's neither of the gay characters who dies but they're at someone else's funeral and they're like holding hands and then the other

men in the dance troop are like whoa yeah I had no idea I can't ever I have to watch the full Monty again oh it's so good anyway And we can talk more about their relationship if we want. But back to the flim, Carrie is at the funeral.

Why? Who does she know of these people? Yeah. I was like, okay, maybe for this one, perhaps she's there to like pay her respects because it was her wedding that Gareth died at. So like maybe maybe that's why she's there. Yeah. Yes. Also, I don't know. Okay, let's do a thought experiment. If someone died at your wedding, but they were a plus one, I would, I would, I just, I would worry. I would worry that I would be viewed as like, people would be nervous to be her own V after that. Like, I don't know if people would want you there. You know?

Like that you're like a bad omen or something. They died at your wedding, but you weren't friends because they were plus one. Yeah, I feel like it. you kind of look like the grim reaper showing up at the funeral. Like, I don't know. I feel like that's, that's, I would,

I would send, I would send flowers. I would send flowers, but I don't think I would go because I think people would look at me like the grim reaper. Would you cancel your honeymoon as well for someone else's like a plus one that died at your wedding? A plus one. That's tough. That's tough.

It depends on if the flights are, but do we know for sure he was a plus one? We can't know, because how do any of these people know each other? I guess I don't know how she knows Matthew either. They met at wedding number two, Gareth and Carrie, because he's like, oh, we had this really funny girl, this American girl at our table. She was really funny. Right.

So maybe Gareth was the invite. Yeah. So I wondered if maybe, you know, like, sometimes you meet someone and then, like, you have a really good fun bonding. And maybe because she's American and not repressed, she knew he was gay and she'd worked at Vogue as well. So maybe she'd like met other queer people. So she was like, this man is fun and gay. And then actually maybe they developed a kind of bond where she was like, I'm going to invite this guy to my wedding.

We had a really good time at that other wedding. I love this head canon because that would require that we get to know Gareth and Carrie, which I would have loved. Imagine if we got a scene of Gareth and Carrie. They would have been like the best of fun. It would have been really nice. I mean, well, I think it would have been Gareth being fun and Carrie being boring as fuck. Oh, no.

Oh, my gosh. She's had sex with 33 people. She's not boring. You're right, you're right, you're right. I just find her to be such a like nothing character. But I don't think that's the fault of the character. It's the fault of the writer. Yeah.

Richard Curtis. Exactly, yes. Okay, so Carrie is at the funeral and she goes up to Charles and she's like, Remember when you told me that you loved me? Well, I liked that. Okay, bye. And then she leaves. We're like, grow up.

And so at this funeral, Charles, I'm not exactly sure. I mean, so he has that conversation with Tom. They're talking about love and romance. And the impression I got was that Charles realizes that you could die at any moment. the way his friend died at any moment and that you have to kind of to quote Jack Dawson in Titanic make each day count

because we cut to 10 months later Charles wakes up for a wedding but whose wedding is it surprise it's his wedding but wait who is he marrying his ex-girlfriend Henrietta so apparently he had some kind of revelation

get away from her get away from her justice for henrietta she was literally just getting over him too she was just getting over him yes indeed um but he's not he's in he's marrying her instead no he's not well well he's he's thinking about it um it should end with her shooting him yeah um okay so we're at his wedding Charles is greeting people as they arrive, including Carrie. She reveals that she and Hamish have split up. And so Charles starts having second thoughts about the marriage that he's about to enter into. His feet are getting so cold.

And he's asking Matthew and David what he should do. But he ultimately decides to go through with it, despite all of his misgivings. So the wedding begins. and the priest gets to the part where he says, you know, if anyone opposes this union speak now or forever hold your peace, which we all remember is a very iconic moment in the movie Shrek. Yes, it's also a very iconic moment in fictional weddings that I've actually never heard at an actual wedding because I would love to object as like a joke. But I've never actually heard it said at all five trillion weddings I've been to. You've never heard it said. No.

Maybe they don't do it at American weddings. Wait, have you heard it? I have heard it. I'm so jealous. I've heard it, but some people choose to have it cut out. Okay. Because they don't want to give anyone the opportunity because they're going to get divorced. I think so.

But I've heard it in church weddings before here. Interesting. I'm going to, I think at my wedding, I'm going to let them say it. And if it's not there, I'm going to say add it in. Add it in. Let's make this a group discussion. Yeah, get it in there. I feel like it's almost a way of showing you're confident enough in your relationship

that you don't think anyone's going to object. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so obviously I'm going to your wedding, Jamie. We'll see. I'm going to object. My guess is actually a handful of people I don't really know, though. We'll see. I'm going to bring a projector and play that scene from Shrek.

A super cut of wedding objections. It's statistically you would think it happens every other one. wedding if you had just seen weddings and movies yeah exactly and honestly if someone objects like that that keeps the afternoon juicy that i feel like you know people are traveling from out of town they should get they should get a show exactly yeah uh-huh anyway uh so david objects yeah and he signs while charles translates vocally that david suspects that the groom is having doubts having such doubts that he loves someone else. And Charles admits this is true. So Henrietta punches him in the face and the wedding is called off. We cut to Charles and his friends like backstage or whatever.

He's freaking the fuck out. And then the doorbell rings and it's Carrie and she's soaking wet from the rain and she's like, whoopsie daisy, I shouldn't have come to the wedding. I guess I kind of ruined it and he's like no I'm glad you did it made me realize that I was about to marry the wrong person because I love someone else and that someone else is you and I want to be with you forever but let's not get married because I don't think I believe in marriage or it's not for me or yeah I was like yeah you like I mean not to defend marriage but I'm like yeah clearly you are not very decisive people, so maybe marriage is not for you. Yeah.

I think it was like a lot to go through for this man to realize that what he's against is like getting married as an institution. Like that was kind of like the big takeaway was that this guy shouldn't really get married of the film, which is like you needed too much stuff to happen for that growth to happen. Yeah. Well, like they need like an open. in relationship or something too because yeah because she I mean again and I I I'm trying not to pass judgment on her and I because I really don't care and I actually kind of thought it was cool

that she cheated on her fiatte and the movie didn't punish her for it yeah um even though is that a nice thing to do in a monogamous relationship obviously not but I feel like usually particularly for women who cheat the punishment by the plot is so over the top like she dies Like, right. And so for that to not happen in this movie, I really liked. But also, they should like be in an open relationship. They should just date for a while. For sure.

And it seems like that's what they decide to do while David gets married and Matthew finds a new partner in la la la. Right, because the movie ends with a montage of photos of a bunch of people getting together romantically. Henrietta marries someone else. I don't know who that guy is, but she finds love elsewhere. Better than what she was about to do. He had the same face as her, which I enjoyed, didn't that?

He looked like her, but in a seat. So we get those snapshots. We see David has married the woman he met at the second wedding who had been learning British sign language. Scarlett marries an American guy that she met at. at the third wedding. Chester, yeah. Chester. Tom marries a lady who he knew for me.

Oh, I didn't. Okay, that's funny. I'm laughing. I'm laughing. Yeah, because he's like, I'm cousin Judy or whatever. Yeah. And he's like, oh, so your family, she's only very distantly.

And it's so posh and it's so upper class British to definitely marry someone you're already slightly related to. Oh my God. Yeah, that felt. very class commentary to me, which I did. Maybe I'm being too cavalier, but it definitely felt like a class commentary thing. But for a moment, I was watching that scene. I was like, what is this incest meat cute that I'm watching?

That's what it was. And that's how rich people in England find partners is they find someone. They go to the family reunion. Reunion. And they marry cousin Deirdrie. You hate to see it. Anyway, Fiona. marries Prince Charles?

Really bizarre. Really bizarre. I feel like that's trying to say she's so uptight that that would be the only person good enough for her. Well, because she and Tom are brothers, right? And it's established that Tom is like the seventh richest person in the UK or something. Yeah. And also this is an interesting time to be portrayed as marrying Prince Charles. Because I had to like fact check.

I'm like, what amount of. divorced were Charles and Diana at this point. And the answer is sort of. Oh, wait, was she, when did she die? She died in 97. But they, their divorce wasn't finalized until 96, but I think that they were already in the process of splitting up. I don't know, some nebulous in between. I was like, there's some, there's some British stuff going on here that I don't fully understand. It was like, I don't know how the timeline worked, wasn't there. sure sure sure uh and then finally we see charles and carry together they're not getting married but they are holding a baby the end yay yay yay let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss

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And no, there's someone. I'd like to collaborate with this person. This is Sweet 305. Listen to Sweet 305 with Lele Pons as part of my Culture Podcast Network on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. I guess let's start by just sort of closing the loop on Carrie. We've been talking about her quite a bit. Yeah, I think that I've basically said what I wanted to say about the carry.

Like, I do think that there are subversive aspects to her character, but there is just a really clear lack of character outside of that subversion. So her being sex positive, great. her not being punished by the plot for being sex positive and having sex for pleasure great but like a second fact about her

never materializes and in a way that like and I love Andy McDowell but it's like she just doesn't really have like I found so much of her behavior confusing because I don't know anything about her I don't understand why she's doing a like a wedding dress montage with this guy she's hooked up with a couple of times

I don't understand. Like there's, I couldn't track her behavior because anything with her could be true outside of anything related to her being sex positive. So I just like, I guess it's weird because it's glaring to me, but I also don't have that much to say about it. Because it's like, I don't really object to a lot about her character because there isn't. There isn't much. Yeah. I also found her sense of humor really.

She clearly has a sense of humor, but I found it so. confusing, especially the scene where it's the morning after they've had sex for the first time. And she says something like, when were you planning to announce the engagement? Well, we slept together, of course, so I assumed we'd be getting married. And then Hugh Grant is doing his like stammering Hugh Grant thing. And then he's like, wait a minute, you're just fucking with me. And she's like, Tee-hee. And I was like, what is this joke?

I didn't think it was a joke. Oh, you think she was. serious? Yeah, because she then says, I think we both missed a great opportunity here. I think that both things are true, though. I think she thinks that they did miss an opportunity to like spend more time together. I thought that was in reference to her, like, she's about to go back to the U.S. so they like couldn't pursue anything. But I did assume that she was joking about that like weird let's get married thing. I sort of viewed that joke as like just a way to set up the lazy fatal attraction joke.

I don't know. I thought she was a slut who, but in a positive way. And she had hit the time that she wanted to get married. It was the vibe I got off her. And I'm reading a lot into him. And I think she felt like it was her time. She'd worked at Vogue. It was her time now to find a husband.

So I think she was saying to him, yeah, a little bit ingest, but like a little bit serious. Like if you're serious about this, I will come from America and like, we can pursue something, but you need to be in it. And you're not giving me any vibes that you want to necessarily see me like more than this. So like, is there anymore?

And then how Hamish got her was he just got her at a time where she was like, I'm looking for a husband. Because otherwise, why would she marry that old man? Well, I just don't know enough about. her to understand what drew her to Hamish like I is she looking for security does she genuinely love him it doesn't really seem that I mean it seems more like a handshake marriage than anything else because she doesn't really have an issue with cheating on him which is like relationships like that exist but like I I just didn't have enough information and that also is not limited to

Carrie's character because I guess I have sort of like oh I don't think that she would want to really be with Charles because we're told by Fiona that like he doesn't have enough money for her which leads me to the question what does he do what's a second fact about him and I was like I don't know anything about him there's no second facts about him we don't really know anything about anyone no you can say that this woman character was badly portrayed but no one has a job no one seems to do anything apart from just go to a series of like different life event services in churches and that's unusual so i found something about this uh basically richard curtis who kind of based this movie off of like his experience of over the course of four years or something like that he attended 65 weddings

and at one of them so popular right That's wild. I was like, wow, he must be a really fun guy to hang out with. I don't think so. He was friends with David Cameron who did Brexit. Jesus, okay. Yeah. So, well, okay, so at one such wedding, he was propositioned by someone and turned that person down and then lived to regret it.

And so he was like, okay, what if what if I wrote a movie that the person doesn't turn the other person down? and four weddings in a funeral was born. Guess what Richard Curtis, look, as someone who famously fucked my life up for a guy, you never go home with someone at a wedding and then talk to them again. You can go home with them, but then you have to just wake up and be like,

all right, let's see you never. See you never, enjoy your life. If you ever have regretted not hooking up with someone at a wedding or not following up after you hooked up with them, don't make my mistakes. Don't contact them. I feel like I need to know so much about this story.

I can't. We'll talk about it. But I think that is another, I should have said that at the beginning. I will never be like, I really enjoyed this movie where two people meet at a wedding. It's triggering.

It's actually traumatizing. It's fair. Actually, don't do that. But the point is that Richard Curtis based this off of some of like some experiences he had kind of and he said that he chose to omit the characters like talking about their jobs or like giving us a sense of what they do for a living because he felt a group of friends would not discuss their jobs while at weddings. I think in the 90s that's true. I think we're at a different stage of capitalism where everyone discusses their job all the time because it's very

stressful and everyone works a lot and is very burnt out. But I think people in the 90s didn't work that much and still have quite nice houses. And so what are you going to talk about? I guess I guess that still doesn't explain. That explains the friend stuff to me. That doesn't explain Carrie though, because she doesn't know them. Like what else does she have to talk to them about other than how she knows the people getting married, which she will famously never disclose. also like I'm okay with not knowing what a person does for their job because of people are not defined by the labor that they do. If we knew other things about them, what are their interests? What are their views on the world?

Like any other things, but that's also lacking. These people are too posh. Maybe. I mean, yeah, because I had that question as well. I mean, we sometimes, I think the most we learn about characters is like whether they're rich. or not by the standards of the people at the wedding which seems quite high yeah because we find out that like whoever has like castle money oh yeah tom yeah like we don't really understand how but like he has castle money sure um inherited that's how right like it's like scary generational wealth

i guess i it's tricky because i don't personally i don't it make it for me makes it just like hard to get attached to any of the characters if they're in this kind of behavioral void. But it doesn't at least seem like it's a gendered decision where we know a lot about the male characters and we don't know about the women. We kind of just know nothing about anyone. But there are gendered elements to how we see women and especially women who are not Carrie. Yes.

Well, I was thinking about that where I'm like, okay, why do Charles and Carrie like each other since we know so little about either of them. And there is a scene where you could argue Charles is being funny and charming during his best man's speech. And maybe that's part of what endears carry to him. But we don't have anything like that for Carrie, for Charles to be endeared to carry. So it just seems like, I think if you if you think that weird joke about don't you want to get married is funny, then they crack each other up than me. I don't know. I did understand why they also I'm not convinced that they're in love. I'm convinced that they're like really horny for each other and it's long distance and

exciting. Like these two don't actually know each other. They've spent a lot of really sexually charged time together. So like whatever that can turn into love. But like when he first says, I think I'm in love with you. I know that we're as the audience supposed to believe it. But like if you've been alive long enough, you're like, well, no, you don't. He's known her, he hung out with her three times at that point. But that does happen, I don't know, it's very movie logic, but I'm never going to question, like,

why does someone think they're in love with 1994 Hugh Grant? Like, it just makes sense. It's beautiful. And same with Andy McDowell. Like, I'm like, of course you think you're in love with her. Look at her. I think the movie is fundamentally, everyone's purpose in the movie,

for some reason, seems to be getting married. Like, no one seems to have a personality alive or anything other than like, I'm trying to get married here. And that's why I think what she says is not a joke. And I think the movie is like sex is cool and everyone's trying to get married. Again, a concept that this movie invented.

Yeah, sex is cool and everyone's trying to get married. So like, I don't know. I just was like, oh, for these people who maybe have very little in terms of like problems or strife or conflict in their life, they just marry someone that they're like really horny for because they don't have anything else. I guess so. But then she, is she horny for Hamish?

Like, again, I just feel like I don't really. No, but she was horny for marriage. She's, okay. So that, that was my, a question I had about this movie that I'm like, it feels both progressive and regressive at the same time because it is a sex positive movie, but everyone is obsessed with like legal. marriage in the UK. And so it's like

it just feels like these two things are sort of at odds. And I think that maybe to some extent that's what it's about. But the institution of marriage itself experiences really not a ton of pushback other than at the very end when they

realize, oh, we just don't want to get married. But that's why it's the twist. Yeah. Right. Because everyone, everyone gets married in this movie, for the most part, Like Bernard and Lydia are like the most obvious is like, Lydia's like, I'm not going to hook up with you, Bernard, you're a loser.

I'm not that desperate. And then they get really drunk and they start snogging at the end of the night, which I kind of really like enjoy. I like enjoy those kind of developments of these secondary characters. And then they just like get married because clearly they love to fuck. And it's like the only reason, only justification anyone has in this movie. To be with someone else is like the sex was bomb. and maybe we'd have a lot less problems if the only reason anyone got married was because it was like,

I just want to fuck you for the rest of time. It's like, yeah, you can do that for like you don't need to legally. Yeah, you're totally right. Or it's, I don't know. I mean, and obviously that was something that existed in the 90s, but it also just feels a little, maybe I'm wrong. It feels a little outdated in 1994 to suggest that like you, Like, you have, I don't know.

I know that the movie subverts it at the end. It's just the premise is kind of bizarre to me. Right. Well, okay, I was trying to figure out what, if anything, this movie is trying to say about the institution of marriage. Because the way it ends with the two main characters we've been following this whole time is Charles saying, let's not get married. I don't think I'm cut out for it.

And she says, I do want to be with you. but not want to get married, right? So I'm just like, okay. It seems like the movie is saying a committed relationship doesn't need to culminate in a legally binding marriage. You don't have to get married to be happy, which I very much support that. And I appreciate when a movie puts forward a message like that. However, the way this movie handles that doesn't really work for me because I'm not seeing how Charles or Carrie come to this realization. Like, I'm not seeing much in the way of character growth or a character arc that leads them to this line of thinking.

They just kind of, like, randomly decide it one day. And it honestly just feels like it's kind of tacked on at the end of the movie without feeling earned in any way. And then if this is the message of the movie of, like, a happy, healthy, romantic relationship does not have to lead to marriage. It almost feels like it's being undermined by the photo montage of like five different couples getting married. Yeah.

And then the only ones that don't are Matthew and his new boyfriend because they legally cannot get married. And then Charles and Kerry because they've decided not to... Right. Which, again, is like pretty reflective of real life. A lot of people do get married. And but like the ethos of this movie is really It's just weird.

Vague. It's weird. Yeah. And it was worth saying, I mean, tremendously successful. It was a surprise hit, a budget of around 3 million pounds. It made 218 million pounds. It was the highest grossing British film of the time. Which is like.

For a time. Pretty wild. I don't know. It reminds me of, I feel like the American version of this is my big fat Greek wedding. A surprise hit wedding movie. And who can say why? Also very reflective of their respective times. But yeah, I don't know.

And then the other women in this friend group, Fiona, I thought, was quite interesting. And whatever. I didn't love the joke they sent her character out on. But it just, I don't know, we do get characters that I'm curious to know more about. Unfortunately, Charles and Carrie are not two of those characters. But Fiona, I felt like, is a pretty rich character who we, because again, we mostly know about her through the lens of romance, but it was like, that's a very complicated dynamic you don't see very often, at least in this way where it's like she's in love with her friend, they find

out, and then they just have to sort of continue being friends. and I was I guess I was like more curious about what her emotional journey was if the limitations on this movie are like we only care about like the romantic goals of these characters and I really like Kristen Scott Thomas which is maybe a part of it but yeah I don't know I just thought like that's an interesting character who we only really scratched the surface of poor Henrietta is just like the subject of fat jokes appears to have an active eating disorder seemed to be in a like really emotional like I think she's basically made out to be hysterical at multiple points for sure in the plot and so I think by the time that Charles marries her and breaks her heart sure she gets the like 90s girl power punch but I don't I think by then we've kind of been conditioned as the audience to like dismiss her and not care we are rooting against them getting married against them yeah we're not necessarily rooting against her which is why she gets the punch in. But I just, I don't know, that just bumped me. It bummed me out.

Yeah, for sure. And then Scarlett was a character who I'm like, she's, she seems fun. She's quirky. There's a weird scene. I think it's the second wedding. She's a bridesmaid and part of her dress, like the back of her dress is open and it exposes her underwear. And I kept thinking, oh, this is going to be a big moment where someone notices it and starts laughing and she's super embarrassed and it. the bride or something, but then nothing happens. It just cuts to the next scene. Which is funny because when she loses her like bow on her dress, she does say, don't worry, no one will notice.

And clearly they didn't. And they didn't. Even though her whole ass was hanging out. Yeah. Whoa. Wild. She's a great character, I think. She's fun.

I thought she was super fun. She does surprise kiss a man and then say, don't let me drink too much. I'll get really flirty. Yeah. Kate, I'm going to hear you about. I liked Scarlet too. And I thought she, like, was the most, like, visually distinct.

Like, she had style. She had, like, I liked her. She felt like she didn't fit in their rich friendship group, the rich person friendship group. Like, I don't think she made sense there. And so the impression I got was that she was, like, Charles's housemate. But I like that she's, like, under the table telling this, like, child who does, yeah, there's, like, a child. She's telling who she's, like, like, she's, like, like the men I like I like they bonk me and then they leave me and then the men that like me

I think are dwebes and I can't be bothered to bonk them and she's sort of having this really adult conversation with the child under the table which they really enjoy and then she's also the closest person we get to someone who's having a job because she goes for a job interview at some sort of clothing store yeah yeah only sells like latex PV steve it's like a very 90s way of describing a sex store. At first I was like, it's a what? And then you're like, oh, okay, I guess that she's just being British about it. Called spank.

Spank. Yeah. And so she, we know that like she at least looks to earn her money. Yeah. Which maybe the other, these other people in the film, I don't get the impression they seem to earn money or need to earn money. Yeah. I guess it's just like I, the more we talk about this, like the nebulous nature of this friend group, I'm like, I just needed like a big chill kind of framing device.

Just tell me they're friends from childhood. They went to school together. Give me something. They're push people, friends. I mean, I guess I just don't care about that. And maybe that's a barrier to entry with this movie. I'm like, oh, I don't know. Scarlet's too cool for the movie.

I agree. Yeah, she's really cool and she seems like the most normal. I think there's a class thing where going on, and it's certainly likely exemplified by the creepy man that's chasing Carrie in the beginning. Because there's a bit when they're sat at the boatman pub and he's like, how did you know the guy? Like how did you know the guy whose wedding it was, Angus? He's like, oh, from university and he's like, oh, I knew him from school. His brother buggered me senseless, which is quite an insane thing to have in a movie that I don't think

is very highly rated, but like, do you know, are you familiar with? No. No. Is it like, was he being sexually assaulted? Yes. So buggering in a British private school, what we call the public schools, because that's what they were historically called. But like in a British boarding school is when the older kids sexually assaults the younger

ones. I've heard of this as a thing that happens very commonly in British schools. And it's kind of so normalized and accepted in our culture that this thing happens, that you can throw it in a movie with like no, I don't know. Like nothing around it, no ceremony, no real acknowledgement that this man has probably been through something. Like a throwaway joke almost. Yeah, that's like a throwaway joke. And I find that like, I don't know, kind of really interesting that in one of our biggest movies,

everyone's like, yeah, sure, that just like someone said that. and then we just, it's nothing to do with anything. Yeah. Right. There's also, I was curious if other of you picked up on this, of, in Carrie's list, there's, like, one person who I thought it was maybe referencing an assault, I believe it was number 11. I think it was like some sort of distancing phrase of like an unpleasant surprise or like there's a bizarre turn of phrase that.

I was like, is this 90s distancing talk for like an assault that she didn't yet kind of view as an assault? Yeah, there's a few things that feel extremely of the time. And Kate, yeah, I didn't even have the language to pick up on

that. That's wild. I think that's the thing like, like I get that they're all very, I think that that situates for me that they're all incredibly posh people. And posh people don't necessarily need jobs and that's they've got time to go to like 65 weddings.

Like I don't know anyone who's got the time to do that more than an end of it. Right. And that's why they don't have personalities because you don't need a personality if you've been born into money. Wow. Bleak but true. I was like, wow, a moment of silence for that. God. Yikes.

I mean, also worth noting that this is a profoundly white movie. Yes. everyone, everywhere in all of the scenes at all the weddings and the funeral and that are taking place in and around London, every single person is white. Yes, there is one black person in the whole movie and it's just at the funeral and it's just a cut to his face and he's doing a sort of pensive smile. And that's it. And my mother's like, I love that black guy.

And I'm like, sure. Wow. Representation win. I guess we don't know any less about him than we do anyone else in the movie. Yes, so it doesn't. If he likes, if he likes sex, then we know the same amount about him as we do about everybody. But yeah, I also picked up on that shot where you're like, and it's also in the 11th hour of the movie, too. It's at the very end.

Yes. They're like, there's this black guy. He's also here. Don't worry. Right. I want to talk about David, Charles's brother. He is deaf. It did take me a while to figure out who he was to everyone.

Yeah, which is I at least in step with the rest of the movie, where it does take you a while. It took me a while to figure out that they were brothers. Right. But they says so early on in the film their brothers. They do, but if you turn your head for one second, which I did quite often watching this movie, because I just kept checking out.

You missed that. And it's not until about halfway through the movie where Charles goes to meet up with him and then promptly abandon him, but that you actually realize, oh, like, okay, these are the brothers, here's the situation. Anyway, so he is, he's a deaf character.

He is played by a deaf actor, David Bauer. He studied at the British theater of the deaf. I want to share a quote from him from a BBC interview in 2010 about this movie, he said, quote, Richard Curtis wanted an actor who was actually deaf in real life to play that role, which I think was particularly enlightened. People ask me why I gave up film acting.

I didn't give it up. I just couldn't find the parts. I'm hoping that one day deaf actors will be able to play all kinds of parts, not just deaf people, unquote, which speaks to a, conversation we've had many, many times on the show before as far as disability representation. Oftentimes a disabled character will be played by an able-bodied actor, you know, and all the problems inherent in that. So I was encouraged by the fact that he does have a few important moments in the movie, particularly at Charles's wedding, where he's the catalyst to putting an end to it and kind of saving these

two characters from a marriage that would have been absolutely miserable for both of them. But still, I mean, still firmly a side character, which is not shocking. I was reminded of the conversation we had around the holidays last year, around actor Tyrone Giordano, who plays, I had to look it up because I do not remember the name of the characters in the family stone, but he played Tadstone. Of course. Who could forget that the character's name. with Tadstone.

But a movie that came out 10 years later with, you know, kind of a similar trajectory for the actor where it was a deaf character played by a deaf actor who did not go on to work as extensively as he deserved to. Yeah. So just tacking that on that 10 years passed and that did not improve. But also in 1994, that's a great precedent to set. And I think one of the other kind of more subversive elements of, this of this movie. I think it's so sweet as well that that woman like well she basically decides

she thinks he's fit and then decides to learn sign language for him and then signs everything wrong a little bit and that's quite funny. Which is again every single relationship in this movie where someone's like oh that person's hot let me see if I can go have sex with them. Yeah. So it's not even out of step with the rest of the movie but I was really I thought it was like really encouraging to see a non-disabled character put in effort to learn a language so that they could communicate with a disabled character and then have that work out great for them because they seem to fall in love and get married. Yeah. And that like it was it's just presented. I think similarly in the way that I like how Carrie's attitudes towards sex for pleasure is presented. It's very matter

of factly the movie kind of doesn't comment on it. It just is. I like that. Yeah. How did you feel about the comments about Americans? Oh, I don't care. I don't care about that. I agree. Yeah. The thing is, if you talk to Americans, they're like, no, no, correct. Yeah.

That is how it is. I don't know, because there was quite a lot of like, well, when Scarlet falls in love with Chester, and seemingly she just falls in love because he says his name's red. Right. And then she laughs at that for ages. And then she's like, wow, I'm in love with him, basically. Yeah, there's a gun with a wind reference.

And she's like, wow, we're in love now. It's so like, yeah, when British people are bullying American people, I'm like, it's colonizers bullying colonizers. You're like, it's like neutral. It's neutral, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, we all wear cowboy hats, whatever, cheerio. But maybe that depends on which American people we're talking about.

Okay. So we have to be careful. Sure. I mean, I guess anyone who's like proud to be an American. would take offense to the jokes in this movie about that. But that's a, yeah, I mean, that's a dog whistle. But that in itself is a problem, yeah. Yes.

Not to keep beating the dead horse of the maybe joke that Carrie does in the bedroom where she's like, we had sex, so now we have to get engaged and get married. I thought that might have been her playing into British people's perception of American. where... I don't know. I feel like a lot of people think that Americans are really like puritanical when it comes to sex.

Yeah. Okay. I think that's why I read it as not a joke because they think... Interesting. Okay. For a lot of British people, I think we think that Americans

are quite quick to get married. On the whole, like there's a kind of cultural thing around it that like Americans would want to get engaged after sex. That's like, but everyone in this movie gets married after 45 seconds. So it's kind of like, who's casting stones here?

They're like, no, you're doing that. But also, meanwhile, everyone's getting married after three months in this movie. Truly. I think that she is aware of that perception of Americans and played on it and made that joke. That's how I interpreted it. I think they don't even, haven't even thought this through. And we're giving it so much steps. And I love that we're like.

Like we're giving this woman like, this is a really clever joke to make or something. But actually, I don't know if at any point they thought this through. Yeah. Perhaps not. I will say that this is a rare case of a woman co-lead being paid more than the man, even though she has less screen time. And I think it's just because Andy McDowell was more famous than you grant at the time. but she was paid $250,000 up front while Hugh Grant was paid 35,000 British pounds,

which would have been the equivalent of what, like around $50,000, depending on the conversion rate at the time. So she was paid almost $200,000 more than him. I'm really happy to hear that she was paid loads more for, I would say, quite a lot less work. A lot less work, yeah. I love that. I love that. I love Andy McDowell rocks. I wish that they had written more of a part for her,

but a win for Andy McDowell, I feel, is a win for us all. And in terms of like girl boss feminism, maybe it's quite cool that she had a very small part and didn't have to do any character study or really act all that much and still get more money. I kind of, I have to. agree with you where it's like there are certain times where I I don't know I'm like well I you know even if the part isn't great a woman made a shitload of money and she didn't even really need to

try so there you go yeah maybe Richard Curtis is the most feminist of us all feminist icon Richard Curtis the last very quick thing I had in my notes was um it seems like there are a couple ageist jokes about an old man who I think makes like two appearances at different weddings who like we're meant to think that he's quote unquote senile oh yeah honestly I was like there were so many 90s tropes present that didn't even register for me but you're you are absolutely right I really enjoyed that old man though he was so funny I like the man yeah but it's just that like it's problem there's ageism at his expense I do like I think it's funny when someone says to him like, bride or groom when he's like entering the church? And he's like,

it's perfectly obvious that I'm neither. And I'm like, that's actually pretty funny. I see it. I don't even know if that's like senility as much as like a different more nebulous trope of like old people don't understand what young people are saying. Well, I thought it was implied that he's senile because the other time we see him earlier is when Charles says like, hello, nice to meet you. I'm Charles. And then he goes, no, you're not Charles died 20 years ago. Do you think I don't know my own brother? I chalked that up to British. I've tracked that up to, I don't know.

I was just like, British people are so weird. Like, okay, I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. I thought two cracking jokes, basically. Well, okay, the one thing, the one joke that I did think was funny in the entire Wow.

Sorry, sorry, everyone. Sorry. You're not sorry. I'm not sorry. Okay. No, don't know. It's at the funeral. Charles and Tom are talking about love and relationships and, oh, will they ever find someone?

And, you know, and then Tom says, I just hope to meet a nice woman and settle down. It worked for my parents. Well, apart from the divorce. Yeah. And I'm like, that's pretty funny. I laughed. But otherwise I was struggling. Wow, that's so funny.

I thought there were so many great jokes in this film. Maybe I just don't get this brand of British. Wow. Yeah. What about when he acts suddenly in the beginning is like to that guy where he's like, ah, she's no longer my girlfriend. Oh. And then he's like, oh, Martin.

Oh, no worries. Yeah, like no worries. She was shagging someone else. and then he was like, she's now my wife. Okay, I was fine. I was okay with that. Yeah. I was like, wow, the women of this world are cheaters.

The women in this world are like big, sluts, but everyone's here for it, I think, which is, I think, quite progressive. I'd have to agree, yeah. Well, does it, does this movie pass the Bechel test? No. No. It doesn't. No. It doesn't.

And it's not even close. Because as with most movies, that there's a few cool women in that is written by a man. They are like almost implausibly kept away from each other. They are never, there is one that I saw people arguing as passing at the very beginning where they are insulting the first bride's wedding dress. They say she looks like a meringue. But I would say by our standards, it is not a meaningful exchange of dialogue.

And it's the only time these characters talk. so. The only conversation I'd noticed that was between two people who I think were both women was when Fiona's talking to that old lady at the reception of the second wedding. And the old lady says, are you married? And she says, no, I'm in love with someone, but he's not in love with me. And until I get over that. And then she says, or like before she says that, she says, are you a lesbian?

And I guess asking someone if they're a lesbian is kind of a conversation. not about a man. I'd agree. But it lasts for about 10 seconds where she says, yeah, are you a lesbian? She says, good gracious, what makes you say that? And then she said, it's just a more interesting question to ask than like, oh, I'm sorry, you haven't found the right man.

And then she sort of reveals that she was a lesbian briefly for 15 minutes. For 15 minutes in uni. Yes. Yeah. Which is, yeah, obviously, very progressive way of, that was how people talked about it in the 90s, sure. we already talked about how

queerness is and isn't portrayed in this you know there are so many things that I'm like oh yeah that actually is a Bechtelcast thing to talk about and I just my eyes were glazed I know I'm sure we're missing stuff sorry we're being such haters sorry to the UK

and you should be sorry this is our national film I mean it is wild how it is like one of those things where it's like I know that people in the U.S. I've obviously a lot of people have seen and liked it, but it is just like not a classic in the way that it is in the UK. It feels like such a classic from my childhood, yeah. But it's unfortunately for the UK does not pass the bacterial test by our standard.

True. But what about our nipple scale where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to, zero to five nipples examining it through an intersectional feminist lens? I'll give it one nipple, maybe even one and a half for a few of the things we talked about. The movie is allowing women to be sexually open and interested and just having sex with a bunch of people, and the movie is not judging them for that. It has, and again, this is like crumbs, but it has a deaf character played by a deaf actor. It has a queer relationship that reflects, that I think like realistically reflects how it could have been at the time where they were in the closet, even to their closest friends.

But when it is revealed that they were in a queer relationship, their friends still seem to be supportive. But it also does the bury your gaze trope by killing one of the two queer characters. So I'm going to take it down. to one nipple. Again, such an aggressively white movie, no racial diversity whatsoever. The black guy that smiles.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yes. Don't erase him. Yeah, my apologies. Yeah, so one nipple, I'll give it to Scarlet because I would have liked more of the movie to be about her. Yeah, I'll meet you.

I'll meet you at like 1.25. I don't know. Yeah, I do think that this movie, like, I don't want to take away the things that this movie does that are genuinely subversive and interesting for their time. Having a woman who has sex for pleasure and is sex positive, having a gay couple that is not just heavily coded, as we're so used to seeing in the 90s or as, like, primarily a sassy sidekick. Although the barrier gay thing really, really, really bothers me in this movie. I was like, oh, the funeral. I just know it. I just know it.

And sure enough. And yeah, I think we've basically discussed everything. So I'm going to give it 1.25. And I'm going to give them to my friend Andy McDowell. I love her smile. Kate, how about you? I think I'd give it too on the grounds that I think actually the only characters that really show any. deeper feeling other than like, I married this person because they banged good were the gay

characters. Because like that, the heartbreak of that funeral, I think is really poignant. And I think it's sort of like, it's revealed at the same time, it suddenly revealed that these people were in love. And I think that's quite, I do think that was probably quite a progressive thing to do for that society in 1994 Britain. For sure. And I think that is really good. And then, the second nipple, I think, is for, I just love the fact that Andy McDow got paid so much money to basically do bugger all. And I'm really here for that.

And once I knew that, I'm like, okay, great work. I'd like to see more, I'd like to see more representation of people that don't seemingly have jobs, including the actors. I'd like that. I want people to have money, zero work. and that feels, you know, progressive and good. And socialist maybe. Maybe. This is a socialist movie.

Actually a communist film and it's hard to see because they're all so posh and they're all like seemingly landed gentry. But no one has a job. Yeah, a communist movie about the bourgeois class. Yeah, it's kind of, I guess. Oh, gosh. So two nipples?

I think I would give it two nipples. Yeah. I don't know. I love Scarlett's character. I think there's like, there's so many characters in it that I do really enjoy. They're not the main characters. But they feel minor to this movie. I know.

Yeah. It's a bummer. Yeah. I will give my nipples to, I don't know, maybe Lydia for just getting with Bernard, even though she's settled, but he's really good and bad, it turns out. True. I'm happy for her. We're happy for her.

Hell yeah. Well, Kate, thank you so much for joining us. And sorry that we shit all over a movie that the entire country loves. Yeah, we will be, I will be saying something to the home office. I don't know who does our visas, but I guess. Oh, yeah. We're banned. Don't ban me.

I have to come watch Padding to the musical again, although it is coming to Broadway. Oh, is it? Yeah. Yes, it is. Paddington gets around. He's kind of like Andy McDowell's character in that way. Yeah. Except Paddington is asexual. It's true. It's true.

Kate, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. Come back any time and tell us about your fringe show and plug anything else you want to plug. Mainly that. If you're in Edinburgh this summer at the fringe festival, please come to my show. It's at 1755. That's five minutes to six at The voodoo rooms.

Thank you for clarifying. And it's free. And you can just walk in and come. And it's about what it's like to be a good time gal like Andy McDowell and a feminist during these times, which are the apocalypse times and how maybe I should have been a childwife instead. But I don't know. If anything tells you that being a sluss is good, it's four weddings and a funeral. I'll meet my child. It's true.

It's true. We'll always have four weddings. to the funeral. Thank you so much for joining us. I wish I could see the show. Have a great run. I know you always do. Thank you. And then you can follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast.

You can subscribe to our Patreon, aka Matrion, where for $5 a month you get two bonus episodes every month, always based on an amazing genius theme. And then you also get access to our back catalog. of around 200 bonus episodes. What a bargain, truly. And with that, let's go get married or die. Sounds great.

The two options. Bye. Bye. The Bechtelcast is a production of IHeartMedia, hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus. And me, Caitlin Durante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtenen. And edited by Caitlin Durante.

Ever heard of them? That's me. And our logo and merch and all of our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus, ever heard of her? Oh my God. And our theme song, by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan, with vocals by Catherine Voskrasinski. Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree slash Bechtelcast. Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here. The Dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form. We're launching Podlandia AEO rewatch, our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of

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