The Bechdel Cast - Fresh (2022)

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Jamie and Caitlin meet at the grocery store for a little discussion about Fresh (2022).See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty and I am so excited to let you know that my latest podcast interview is with the one and only Tom Hanks. I have left many wonderful atmosphere or a loving atmosphere without thinking, oh things were really wonderful back then, I wish I was back there. Jay, I don't think I've ever thought that. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.

I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're gonna find out, Jules.

New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my undeadly darlings. It's Teresa, your resident ghost host. And do I have a treat for you. Haunting is crawling out from the shadows, and it's going to be devilishly good.

We've got chills, thrills, and stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on. So join me, won't you? Let's dive into the eerie unknown together. Sleep tight if you can. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption

that were turning her beloved country into a Mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy, Elian Gonzalez, was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba?

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Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast Nom nom nom, Jamie, I'm hungry. For what? For you. For me? For my ass? Yeah, for your ass and your titties.

Egg on my ass. I thought he took her whole ass, but it turns out just a portion, question? I'm not sure. Right. Because she seems like she has her ass pretty much intact afterwards. Yeah. But I don't know. But I guess I forgot again, my male gaze radar is all off and I forgot to check the size of her ass at the beginning of the movie. Well, I was looking. Okay, good. Good. Disrespectfully, I'm sure. Yes, I was gazing in a very objectifying way, and I didn't notice that much of a difference.

Wow. Get her ass. Okay, welcome to the Bechtel. Wow, what a really feminist introduction to the episode. Welcome to the Bechtel cast. My name's Jamie Loftis. My name is Caitlin Durante, and this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechtel test as a jumping off point.

I'm so fricking lutely. And what's that, Jamie? Well, the Bechdel test is a media metric created by Alison Bechdel and her friend Liz Wallace, which is why it's often called the Bechdel Wallace test. It was originally created as a bit for Alison Bechdel's iconic, I hope it was an iconic comic collection.

Thanks to watch out for, but eventually it was an iconic comic collection, thanks to watch out for, but eventually became used as a sort of metric to see if people care about characters of marginalized genders. And the answer is often no. Today I think we have a great discussion ahead. So the version of the test that we use, a little bit of a modified version, requires that two characters of a marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something other than a man for two lines of dialogue or more.

Yeah, that's sort of what we're up to. I appreciate, if nothing else, the movie we're talking about today really warns you about men from Oregon. And I think that's a really important PSA that I rarely see reflected in film. To all of our listeners in Oregon, can't wait to see you at the next live show. But like men from Oregon, scary, scary to me personally. In my lived experience, I'm afraid of them. In my lived experience, they want to steal my ass and eat it.

That's just my lived experience. Sure, sure, sure. That hasn't happened to me yet. Time will tell. I was going to say, well, it's just a matter of time. It's just a matter of time. You meet them in a different city, and then you find out Munson, they're from Oregon.

And then you're like, oh, this man's trying to kill me. Anyways. We're covering Fresh, 2022, originally released on Hulu, was it? Yes. Jamie, what's your relationship slash history with the movie? Well, first, I just realized that the character played by Sebastian Stan is in fact from Texas. So I would like to modify as he tells us.

And so actually, I would just like to say men who live in Portland. I'd like to totally backtrack everything I said. I was just trying to be rude to an ex-boyfriend. But you know, there's plenty of time left in the episode to do that. In any case, my history with this movie is that I had not seen it. I meant to and then didn't as so very often happens to me with movies on streamers. It's weird. I feel like I used to be sort of the reverse of this, but now it's like I am much less likely to watch a movie if I, if I don't get a chance to watch it in theaters.

You're a theater girly now. I'm a theater girl. I'm an AOC Stubbs pass holder. So yeah, I would have loved to see this in theaters. It's a bummer that it, that didn't happen. I don't know if there was like a limited release or something. But but yeah, I really like the stars of this movie, Daisy Edgar Jones, and of course, I Tonya's own Sebastian Stan. Yes. So I was excited to see it. And I'd never seen I know that this was the director Mimi caves feature length debut, which is wild. I feel like it's such a fully realized thing. Yeah, I enjoyed it. It's a brief and uncomplicated history with this movie. What about you, Caitlin?

I did see it about a year ago, maybe not right when it came out, but within not too long of it being released, our mutual friend Bryant and I watched it together. And I thought it was interesting. Yeah, I think I already knew what it was about. It's about cannibalism. And I knew that going in. So I wasn't like surprised at the twist or anything. I kind of was surprised at. Well, if we could talk about like pacing and stuff yeah because I also felt I hadn't even seen the trailer for it I don't think but I knew what this movie was about like maybe just through like hearsay or whatever it was but yeah but yeah it takes a long time for it to reveal that it's a cannibal movie for a movie that it seems like

everyone knows is a cannibal movie. Right. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? I did earlier today write a letter boxed review. Brave, never done before. Yes. Simply states this movie gives new meaning to the term meet cute. Yeah, I got to hand it to you. I got to hand it to you. I got to hand it to you.

Thank you so much. But anyway, yeah, I saw the movie. I was like, Oh, that was pretty cool. And now we're talking about it. So let's proceed. Shall we? I'm very excited. Yeah, there is a certain amount of like catharsis to watching a movie like this. I quite enjoy. So if nothing else, I feel like it's a good opportunity for us to publicly air out some personal dating horrors. And isn't that beautiful? That's honestly a lot of what my discussion will be about here today.

Okay, great. Then welcome to a gossip with us. Because yeah, I feel like I really enjoyed this movie. And part of it was because there were just like, you could just tell that it was written by a woman who has to date men. Just there were like these little details that you're like, ooh, ooh, eh, ah, that including like, there's nothing more bone chilling than being in a man's home and there's no signal. And you're like, scary. I hate to ruin the mood. But I like, I remember having to do that once being like, I hate to like, wreck the mood. But like, I need you to give me the Wi Fi, just in case you

want to kill me and like, but you just have to be direct about it. Because honestly, at that point, if he's gonna kill you, he would just start at the request. This is true. It's not like I can change my fate at this point. But yeah, that reminded me of a couple years ago where you were just like, oh my God, yeah, you have to be like, hey, I'm awkward,

but I need to be able to call 911 in case you're horrible. Yeah also so we just covered Get Out and I watched this movie on the same day that we covered. So I like watched Get Out in the morning, we recorded that episode and then like later that night I watched Fresh so wild. What a day. What a day for you. But the movie follows similar beats in the sense that it's someone who goes to this unfamiliar place with a romantic partner. They have ulterior motives.

The protagonist gets abducted. They have to try to escape. Death is, or, you know, loss of autonomy is imminent, you know, lots of stuff like that. And then a victorious triumphant escape from the protagonist at the end. So like, you know, obviously very different stories, but like following similar beats. Similar beats. I didn't think about that. Yeah, that's very, very true. Similar friend to the rescue thing. Yes, indeed. Although I did love that they had,

oh my gosh, what is his character's name? The bartender. Oh, Paul. Paul, yeah, I love that they did have Paul be like, no, no. He shows up to help and then he's like, nevermind. Yeah, and you're just like, well, I wish he had called someone else, but I don't not get it. Right, because he's, well, I, you know, I wish he had called someone else, but I, I don't not get it. Right. Cause he's well, we'll talk about him, but yeah, I found that

to be interesting. I thought that was an interesting fake out. Cause you, I think maybe it is cause we just watched get out. I kept waiting for like the TSA moment at the end of get out. You're like, oh no, he's going to leave. I guess that that is like pretty Yeah. Anyways, I'll do the recap and then we'll go from there Let's do it. Actually, let's take a quick break first and then we'll come back. Oh, all right Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty and I am so excited to let you know that my latest podcast interview is with the one and only Tom Hanks. Tom rarely does long form interviews so I was so grateful to have the time to dive deep into family, mental health and the mindset behind his long successful career. Dude, I travel light and I can travel light emotionally. I'm done. There's stuff that I cannot control.

I have left many a wonderful atmosphere or a loving atmosphere or a friendly atmosphere. And like Ernie Banks, the ball player for the Chicago Cubs, without ever looking back, without thinking, oh, things were really wonderful back then. I wish I was back there. Jay, I don't think I've ever thought that. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Julian Edelman.

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and I'm a scientist who studies human behavior. Many of us have experienced a moment in our lives that changes everything. A moment that instantly divides our life into a before and an after. On my podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, I talk to people about navigating these very moments. The last couple of years has been the hardest season of our marriage for sure. I'm surprised our marriage survived it. I think we both are. I think we both were barely holding on. Nothing compares to how hard this is.

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The cracker, the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. And the best part, I tip but a cap, cause another one gone. And the best part? I make this show entirely by myself. Impressive, right? Me too, right? OK, OK, maybe I get a little bit of help from my sidekick Tina the Raccoon.

Every week on Historical Records, join me, Nimminy. Me. And Tina the Raccoon, as we learn about the unsung heroes of the past and turn their history into hip hop. Listen to historical records on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dani Shapiro, host of the hit podcast, Family Secrets. How would you feel if when you met your biological father for the first time, he didn't even

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We are back. Sharpen your freaking blades, baby. Oh, or your teeth. Because Sebastian Stan is going to eat your ass. Sebastian Stan, like, what is going on there? I've been trying to figure out what is going on there for years. What's going on there? Because I remember you saying you could not register

who that person was until Itania came out. And then you're like, oh, now I know who he is because he plays... Is it Jeff Galooli? Yes. Thank you. Great recall. Wow. Uh, yes. I think that maybe, you know, in retrospect, my issue with registering Sebastian Stan's face had more to do with like Marvel glaze. Sure.

Where he was in a lot of Marvel movies. And I feel like this is my theory. If you are in like enough Marvel movies, your face just becomes naturally blurry to the human eye for like five years. But then it wears off and you're like, and he's, and he's doing, I haven't, I don't know. I saw the Donald Trump movie and I was like, um, okay. But in any case, like he's, he's a good actor and I feel like he tries a lot of interesting stuff, but this was around the time where he was starting to try more interesting stuff instead of just playing like

the PP warrior or like whoever he is in Marvel. Is he the PP Warrior? Yeah, no, that's correct. Is he the Winter Soldier or is someone else the Winter Soldier? Don't answer my question listeners. I don't wanna know actually. We don't know.

I'm just like, congratulations to Sebastian Stan for the blur finally wearing off of his face. I do register him now as an autonomous human man, and I think he's quite talented. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, but I agree. Itania really did it for me. And while he plays a despicable character in that movie, he is unfortunately so hot. He's really hot.

In that movie specifically. The little mustache, you're like, fuck. I know. What is it? And then you're like, it's my dad. Like, you're like, what the fuck? Anyways, anyways, let's keep moving. I do appreciate like, I feel like, and this will change the next time we talk about Sebastian Stan. None of this passes the Bechdel test, but he has like, I appreciate

when an actor recognizes they have like a somewhat punchable kind of handsome face. Because Sebastian Stan, like, he's like villainous handsome. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Anyways, Daisy Edgar Jones was great in Twisters. Yeah? And Under the Banner of Heaven, did you watch that? I did not. Well, it's really depressing. Don't watch it. Unless you want to get really upset.

I feel like I know of it unless you want to get really upset. I feel like I know of it because you made a joke to the effect of under the banner of Kevin Le Mignon. Thank you, thank you for bringing that up. I didn't know if there was gonna be a way to bring that up organically. Yes, I would absolutely watch under the banner of Kevin. Under the banner of heaven, it's, you know,

it's an Andrew Garfield police detective show. I would say maybe too sad. Maybe don't watch. But under the banner of Kevin, yes. Anyway, yes, let's keep moving along. I like chaos episode, chaos episode. Wee! All right, so this is a horror movie. So, you know, chaos episode. Wee! All right, so this is a horror movie.

So content warnings, there's violence against women. There's abduction. There's human trafficking. There's cannibalism. The movie takes place in the Pacific Northwest, in Portland specifically, I believe. Yes. We meet Noah, played by Daisy Edgar Jones.

She's a single lady looking for if not love. She's just dating. She's out there dating, going on dates. She goes on a first date with a guy who ends up being a total asshole. She's not having luck on the dating apps. Men are being gross and sending her dick pics, unsolicited, things like that. Her best friend, Molly, played by Jojo T. Gibbs, reassures Noah that she doesn't need a man and they've just been conditioned

by Disney princess movies to have unrealistic expectations about love and romance. And you're like, okay, 2012, let's freaking go, BuzzFeed 2012. So one night, Noah heads to the grocery store to grab some treats. A guy there strikes up a conversation with her about cotton candy grapes. This is Steve, played by Sebastian Stan. Okay, mistake number one, don't go on a date with someone you meet

in the vegetable aisle. Proceed with caution, I would say. Well, I just, the vegetable aisle, like if I met a guy near the macaroni, I would be like, sure. You'd be like, ooh. Yeah. I did have a guy approach me in the grocery store one time.

This was back when I lived in Boston, so probably like 12 years ago. OK. And he was just like, hi, you're so beautiful. And I said, who, me? Whoa. What? And then we did go on a coffee date.

I wanna say later that day, it was a Saturday or Sunday. Oh wow. And it was just like, I'm not doing anything. You almost got fresh. I almost got fresh, but I quickly realized that I was not romantically interested in him. And I said, I'm gonna leave forever now, bye. Yeah, well. So I saved myself from being fresh. Good for you, um, I'm going to leave forever now. Bye. Yeah.

So I saved myself from being fresh. Good for you. Good for you. Thank you. I feel like I'm constantly putting myself in situations where I could possibly get fresh. It's a common criticism of me, but so far, so good. So far so good. And it's not your fault if it happens. I mean, let's be honest when Well, let's try not to put that out into the universe

But anyway, she's approached by this, you know Charming guy who's trying to flirt and he asks for her number and he's Sebastian Stan So she says yes, and she gives him her number who could blame her. She's but Stan. So she says yes and she gives him her number. Who could blame her? She's but human. All right. A few days later he texts her and they meet up for a date and they hit it off. It seems like they have a lot in common. They smooch, they go back to her place and Jamie, they have sex. Don't tell me that.

You should have done a content warning for that. Yeah, sorry. S-E-X. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Stop. This episode is rated R. Okay, so some time passes and they keep seeing each other. It's going well, it's cute.

He even suggests they go away together on a weekend trip. But Molly, her best friend, is a bit wary of this guy because he doesn't have social media. She's never met him. She doesn't know what he looks like. She doesn't like that this trip is this like surprise that he's kind of springing on Noah, especially because she doesn't know where they're going. But they're like, whatever, it'll be fine.

And so Steve picks up Noah and they head to his place before going to whatever this destination is, which turns out to be Cottage Grove, Oregon. And also where he lives seems to be a several hour drive away from the city because by the time they get there it's dark Yeah, I was a little confused about that But also I mean I can definitely relate with even though this kind of stretches credulity a little bit the feeling of like I don't know like someone that you like Being like this is normal and then I've definitely been a person that's like, uh-huh Yeah, totally and this is regular for me like it's unfortunately

Definitely a thing. Yeah, cuz you like want to put your trust into someone that you like and so you're just like sure Everything's fine. Although we do see Noah seeming a bit uneasy about this because she gets to the house, she wants to connect to the Wi-Fi, there's no cell service. And, you know, he ignores that. He makes her a drink, which he has drugged, and Noah loses consciousness. And then we get the title card and the opening credits,

which is like 30 minutes into the movie. So, surprise, the movie's called Fresh. So it turns out Steve is the bad guy. Noah wakes up in a windowless room, her arm is chained to the floor and we're like, okay, Saw vibes? I was also thinking of 10 Cloverfield Lane, a movie I really like. Oh, I need to rewatch that. I remember really liking it.

Yeah, I know, so did I. I remember thinking The End, and I'll try not to say any spoilers here, but The End felt tacked on and that it belonged in a different movie. The End was really weird, yeah. Well, also because you find out that that was a script written on spec, I think, that had nothing to do with the Cloverfield franchise. Right.

And then they bought the script and then, like, co-opted it into a Cloverfield movie, and so you're just like, what? It doesn't make any sense. Anyway, okay, so she wakes up in this room chained to the wall, but instead of jigsaw on a tape recorder saying, let's play a game, Steve is in the room and he explains that he drugged Noah and that he intends to keep her trapped there, chop off pieces of

her and sell her meat. Because people pay him a lot of money for human meat. And he says he's going to keep her alive as long as possible because the fresher the meat, the better and the more valuable it is. And we're like, hey, the name of the movie is Fresh. And they meet in the Fresh produce aisle. And she's standing under a sign that says, Fresh Meats. Wow. And that's just a little joke he's doing.

The movie's called Fresh. The movie's called Fresh. And you won't forget it as you're watching the movie Fresh. So he's like, I won't kill you right away unless you act up, in which case he'll kill her sooner. So Noah is obviously terrified because believe it or not she wants to keep her meat on her body. Molly meanwhile is trying to call and text Noah because Molly hasn't heard from her and she gets a text response and it's clear to us the audience that it's Steve pretending to be Noah

So back in Noah's dungeon room, she's screaming she's crying she hears a voice coming from the room next to her This is Penny played by Andrea bang Saying that Steve isn't there right now and that she's in the same situation as Noah Although Steve has already started cutting off parts of her to sell her meat. And there's a third woman, Melissa, although she has been there for a while and it seems that she has like lost her mind. Steve comes back and we see him cut up Melissa's amputated leg. He's tenderizing the meat, he seals it, he packages it into a few different boxes.

And he's like basically doing, I mean there is a portion of this movie where Sebastian Stan is like, remember Christian Bale in American Psycho? I'm kind of doing that, like the needle drops and stuff felt very reminiscent of American Psycho. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, you half expect Sebastian Stan to start monologuing about Huey Lewis in the news or Whitney Houston or something. Right, right.

Like he's not as far gone. But I mean, what kind of yardstick is that? But yeah, I feel like grooving around with his victims to like 80s music, you're like, I know this, I know this. For some reason, this is a trope. Right. Yes. And he's like putting the meat in these like little care packages along with like the photos of the women and like articles of their clothing and stuff like that. It seems like he always like says to these women, let's go on a trip. And then that way they

pack a bag full of stuff and then he steals it. And anyway, so he's objectifying women. Kailin, would you agree that he views women as objects? What do you mean? That was the thought I had. It wasn't until the very end of the movie, but it's like, wait, wait a minute. I don't think this guy respects ladies at all. Right? All right.

So Noah is determined to get out of this situation. She tells Steve that she needs to take a shower, which he is about to let her do. So he leads her upstairs. She takes note of her surroundings, but then she tries to break free and escape and Steve stops her. When she wakes up again, she's on a surgical bed and he is surgically removing her buttocks. Ruthie Wilds. Yeah.

Molly, meanwhile, is still concerned and she starts digging and realizes that the picture that Noah, quote unquote, texted of her trip is actually a stock photo from a website. So Molly knows something's up. Also, like the second your good friend starts texting you fully punctuated sentences, you're like, they've been kidnapped. They've been taken. Your close friend would never send you a full sentence in a text. That's absurd. Also, you see Molly's face have this like look of incredulity when she sends a heart emoji and it almost seems like, oh, she never uses emojis. That wasn't established.

I feel like that maybe would have been helpful to establish that like, no, she never uses emojis. That wasn't established. I feel like that maybe would have been helpful to establish that like, no one ever uses emojis. But you see her be suspicious. Molly, that is when she gets the heart emoji. And that's when she starts kind of investigating, she sees the stock photo. And so she goes to the bar where Noah went on her first date with Steve, and she asks the bartender Paul, played by Teo Okonowi, who is a former lover of Molly's, they used to like have a casual hookup situation it seemed, and she asks Paul to give her any info on Steve, like his last name from the credit card that he paid with, and Paul eventually gives Molly Steve's full name, so she gets to googling and it seems

like Steve has a wife and two young kids and she finds out where he lives. Back in the dungeon, Noah confides in Penny that she slept with Steve and Penny is like, oh, whoa, like none of the rest of us did, but I'm not shaming you. It's probably a compliment actually. Yeah. Penny is like through the wall comments are very, very funny where she's like, no shame, no shame, but like, wow. Whoa.

Right. And then when Noah asks Steve why he slept with her, he's like, yeah, I told you I like you. Then in a magazine that Steve gave Noah to like help her pass the time, Noah notices writing from another woman and it says like, if you're reading this, it means he likes you. Use it. Keep fucking fighting.

And then it's signed Sammy Iqbari. So Noah taking this advice tries a new tactic where she asks Steve what the human meat tastes like. And he's like, it's exquisite. Why do you ask though? And she's like, haha, I don't know, just curious. And he's like, hmm. I still haven't seen silence of the lambs. Is he Hannibal lecturing now? Is he like oscillating between? No, I wasn't getting Hannibal Lecter vibes from Steve.

But isn't Hannibal Lecter a cannibal? I mean, he says like, I ate her liver with fava beans and a nice Chianti. But... But he's just a killer. He's not like a down home cannibal. Well, like Hannibal Lecter, I don't think we at least in Silence of the Lambs, I haven't seen the other like there's Hannibal and then there's Red Dragon and then there's a show and you know, the sequels and the spin offs and stuff like that I haven't seen. But in Silence of the Lambs, you never see Hannibal.

He's not like a flirty, charming, handsome young guy who's like... Nicole Inglis Wow, drag him. Geez, Caitlin. Kaitlin Luna Yes, sorry. Nicole Inglis You're like, sorry, Anthony Hopkins looks like shit. You're like, geez. Kaitlin Luna He's just scary. So he has a different approach than Steve.

Okay. Okay. Thank you. I wanted to know. Thank you. Meanwhile, Molly goes to Steve's house where he lives with his family. So like his other home, not the one that he has a whole like cannibalism laboratory at and Molly tells his wife, Anne, played by Charlotte Le Bon, that her friend Noah has been seeing Steve and Anne is like, I, are you sure I did? That doesn't

sound right. And then Steve comes home. So Molly sees him and he denies that he knows Noah So Molly calls Noah's phone which Steve has on him and it starts ringing so he's busted but twist His wife is in on the whole operation and she knocks Molly out The thing that was interesting about this movie is I really enjoyed it and none of the twists surprised me. I feel like the second you see her haircut, you're like, she's in on it. She does give off vibes that are a little too sinister for me to be super surprised by that twist. Anne the wife is in on this whole cannibalism operation thing, and then we get another reveal

that she, Anne, has a prosthetic leg. Presumably she was one of Steve's former victims. She's a survivor of this situation. And then he spared Anne and married her, is you can gather. Then Steve basically invites Noah on a little date upstairs where he prepares a dinner of human meat for her. And the whole time she is calculating a way out of there. Brings a whole new meaning to girl dinner, am I right, Caitlyn? she's like feigning interest in the line of work he's in, you know, the cannibalism industry and he's telling her about it. And she's like,

uh-huh. And she asks if he only eats women and he's like, yeah, that's where the market is plus they taste better and then she eats some human meat from a woman named Hope and then he brings her back to her room after the date she makes herself throw up this meal because you know she obviously only ate it to manipulate him but it's working and he wants to have dinner with her again the following night. Then we see Steve take Molly out of her like dungeon enclosure. Noah doesn't know that Molly is there, although she does realize that some new woman is present. And then Steve cuts part of Molly off.

Also, Molly had shared her location with Paul, and he sees that she's somewhere far away. And then her location becomes unavailable entirely, and so he's like, hmm, that's weird. And then he'll eventually set off to go find her. Then it's time for the next little date between Noah and Steve. And she's being very flirty and familiar. And she's like clearly trying to put Steve at ease and get him very comfortable to like let his guard down and

all that stuff. They eat Melissa liver pate. They also eat breast meat, which I think might belong to Molly because I feel like it's implied what's being removed from her is Molly's breasts. Oh, okay. Because I also was just like very unclear on, I mean, not that I'm like, be more specific, but like I was kind of unclear on just the there's a little bit of yada yada when it comes to the healing process because I just feel like if someone took even half of my ass, I wouldn't be like, I can sit down for a date next week. You would think it would take a lot longer to heal.

As a horror fan, I feel like it's almost a missed opportunity to like do some like, and he has this freaky chair he designed for women without asses. I feel like she does sit on one of those little cushioned donuts. That's true. That's true. Wow, he does care. He thinks of everything, Steve.

Also, another reason I think it's Molly is because he doesn't specify whose breast they're eating. He says the other names of the other, like, peace buddy doesn't say. He doesn't want her to know. He shows her this stash of all the belongings from, like, the women he has abducted, as well as photos of them. So Noah sees Melissa and Penny and Sammy, who had left the note in the magazine,

as well as all their phones. So now she like knows where the phones are. And then she really turns up the charm, except, well, she's like, she gets very vulnerable. And she's crying. And he's like, come here, babe. It's OK. And then they start kissing.

And then they dance kissing and then they dance and they start fooling around and she's about to go down on him. But then she bites his dick off, question mark. I hope so. I hope so. Again, a little unclear. I kind of wonder if this wasn't like available on Disney Plus

like if you would really get to see it. It is so weird. I added Hulu to my Disney Plus and now it's cheaper. But no, it's funny. Like when you add Hulu to Disney Plus, it just defeats the purpose of Disney Plus entirely because you're like, Oh, I feel like Disney Plus used to be really discerning about like, it has to be family friendly. And you're like, now I

can watch Daisy Edgar Jones, like, bite someone's dick off right after Nightmare Before Christmas or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, funny juxtaposition. Yeah. But anyway, she bites his dick off, or at least bites it enough that it draws a lot of blood. And she smears toothpaste in his eyes. And then she grabs a phone, grabs some keys, starts to escape. But first she saves Molly and Penny. And the three of them- And you're like, what about Melissa? Melissa is presumed dead because she no longer has a liver. They ate her liver.

So I think that implies. I guess I don't know how bodies work. I'm thinking of kidneys and I'm thinking of kidneys because you don't have two livers. You can live without one kidney. I just was like livers. You have two. Okay. Yeah.

Just the one liver and they ate it so Melissa is probably dead. So she can't save her but she does save Penny and Molly. And the three of them fight off Steve with knives and meat tenderizers and they manage to get outside into the woods. But Steve comes after them with a gun he's shooting at them he is absolutely furious that Noah tricked him. Meanwhile Paul has driven to Steve's house to try to find Molly but he's like this is creepy and then he hears the gunshots and so he leaves being like I've seen this movie and I don't make it out alive, you know,

commenting on how black people often do not survive horror movies. So he leaves. I did keep expecting him to come back. Same. But I kind of like that he doesn't. I like I mean, because they liberate themselves. Mm hmm. True.

I was like, I hope he's at least nearby so that they can get a ride home from him. They are very far away. And I mean, as we're about to talk about, like the ending of this movie is very abrupt. It is. Yeah. Although maybe, you know, everyone's ends up dead. So maybe they just like take the keys to one of Sebastian Sands cars and drive it. I mean, I don't even mean that as a criticism.

I was just like, Oh, yeah. I guess it's fun. Yeah. Anyway, so Paul leaves, but Steve's wife, Anne shows up at the house. She sees that Steve is in danger, but Noah, Molly and Penny get to him first. Noah grabs his gun and shoots him in the head, killing him. Then Noah goes back into the woods to get her phone, which she dropped, and Anne approaches her pretending to be one of Steve's victims. Then she attacks Noah, but Molly saves her and bashes in Anne's head with a shovel. And then the movie ends with Noah and Molly embracing, plus a little button where Noah gets a text from I think the guy she went on a date with at the beginning of the

movie saying like, you up? The end. So that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss. to dive deep into family, mental health and the mindset behind his long successful career. Dude, I travel light and I can travel light emotionally. I'm done. There's stuff that I cannot control. I have left many a wonderful atmosphere or a loving atmosphere or a friendly atmosphere and like Ernie Banks, the, you know, the ball player for the Chicago Cubs without ever looking back, without thinking, oh, things were really wonderful back then. I wish I was back there. Jay, I don't think I've ever thought that. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app,

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So, okay, here's my big, I'm just gonna come in with my big question. Say it. Okay, I feel like the characters are generally underdeveloped, but in particular, I feel like it really stands out with Molly's character. I feel like the Black Best friend trope is being sort of deployed pretty heavily here. Yeah, I guess what I will say is that I wouldn't say that we know Noah so well and we don't know anything about Molly. I would say we don't really know either of

these characters very well, but it's just the trope of while Molly is a very active character and I like that their friendship is at the core of the movie. And you can read in this message of like, you know, Steve's maybe biggest mistake with Noah is to assume that a lack of biological family and her life means that no one cares about her and that she has found family with Molly and all this stuff. Like that is great. I like friendship between women at the core of a story. But you know, while Molly is a very active character, she's in the story to service. No, I, you know what I mean? I don't know. Did that come up for you?

Definitely. Especially because in the first like several scenes, we either see Molly in or like hear her in a phone conversation. She is just like giving advice to her straight white friend because we learned that Molly is queer, she dates men and women. It was to the point where I was like, I wonder if this is gonna be a trope that's like commented on within the movie

because it felt pretty like obvious what trope is happening there, but it's not really commented on. Where yeah, she's just weirdly fixated on the relationship of her straight white friend. And you're just like, God, what year is it? Come on. Yeah.

You do see Molly talking about what it's like to date women and how there are fewer games and there's more emotional dependence. Which she's saying it seems like ingest, you know, she's kind of joking around because that's otherwise a pretty like reductive thing to say. But it seems like she's joking. But I was like, well, can't we see that then to give like Molly more interior life like see her dating women and what that does look like in contrast to Noah dating men that would

develop Molly's character a bit more and make it so that she has more interiority versus everything she does is in service of her straight white best friend. I do feel like she is that Molly is integrated into the story more meaningfully than I was expecting because she does like go to investigate and then she Helps to defeat Steve and she kills Anne but but it still means that everything she does is to like help her white best friend right It's tricky cuz I do yeah Molly does become a very I mean the movie can't happen without Molly It's not like she's strictly there and in the way that I feel like we see This trope in other movies where it's like a very expendable

Character who's just there to basically be like so how are you feeling about the relationship? So like I will give the writer Lauren Kahn, like, credit for, you know, this movie is not possible without Molly. She is integral to the plot. For sure. She's extremely active. Like, she's smart. Like, my favorite scenes with Molly and also JoJo T. Gibbs is really funny.

She's great. But she thinks like a girl. Like, you know, like, when something is something is like a little bit off with her friend or like the way that she views texting and the way that she approaches things. Like it all felt very like authentic and relatable. And like even the fact that just like the touches of like, she makes sure to share her location with somebody when she's going into a situation that feels unsafe. And just like, I liked her character when the like internal logic that she has and she's funny and she's cool, but it's like, there's nothing else really there for her. Like, I feel like this movie would have been more interesting to me as like a

two-hander where Molly and Noah are like characters of equal importance as opposed to Molly is Noah's friend, which is how this movie, you know, rolls out. For sure. Yeah, and I don't think it would have been that big of an adjustment, like writing wise or structurally or anything like that, so. And I think it just like, from a writing perspective too,

like Molly is unbelievably loyal to Noah, like which is great friend. Love that. Yeah. But I would have liked to know a little bit more about their friendship. We don't really learn very much about it. Like I think the most we get is her telling Steve they used to work together. Yeah. Okay. Like, you know, you work with a lot of people, like, and they're, I don't know, like, I feel like there is something a little bit missing for me there where I know in horror, very often you don't get a ton of information about characters. That's fine as long as it's equally distributed, right?

Yeah. But like, it would have made more sense to me if Molly was like, Noah, you know, got me through this really difficult period in my life or like something to really explain why she will go balls to the wall for this character that I feel like gets away from the best friend trope a little bit because not that like Noah, you know, that your friend should not actively, of course, try to rescue you if you've been kidnapped by a cannibal.

But I do feel like I would have liked to understand their connection a little more. And I feel like it would have made the movie stronger. Right, especially because we open on a conversation with them, you know, where Noah is getting advice from Molly, we close on a beat of them embracing, saying, I love you, I love you more. And it's like, well, then contextualize that a bit more,

please. And I feel the same way with Penny and Noah, where, again, you get the suggestion of a cool character dynamic between the two of them. I feel like in a lesser movie, you'd have victims sort of turn against each other or whatever it is, right? But they are very much on each other's side.

But again, you're like, there's an opportunity for them to get to know each other. And like, they kind of don't. It's these like little jokes instead. And we don't learn very much about Penny. And again, I think it makes the movie stronger if we know more about her. Like, you know, and finding something she and Noah haven't come like, I don't know, I just the relationships between women in general in this movie, I feel

like, you know, there's interesting stuff there. But it kind of like there just wasn't enough for there to be a really impactful relationship between women. Molly and Noah are great, but it's just, for me it was like, what have you guys done together? Like, okay, like what is the friendship? Yeah. I needed more for sure. Yeah. I want to talk about Anne. Yeah. I want to talk about Anne. Her. Wow. Good Arrested Development Reference. Thank you. Yeah, let's talk about Anne Charlotte Le Bon.

Yes. So, you know, you can read her character as someone who did what she had to do in order to survive. It seems like she seduced Steve into sparing her and that was her method of escape from almost certain death. Though I chose to read her character and her behavior as commentary on people who are like the victims or recipients or survivors of some form of oppression. And then rather than siding with other oppressed people

like you think they would because you think they'd have empathy because they experienced the same oppression themselves, but instead they align themselves with the oppressor and become complicit in, if not active participants, in the oppression of others. Which is something I think about a lot. I'm constantly thinking about this. It happens a lot in society, ever heard of it? And I find it to be such a troubling yet fascinating phenomenon. Yeah. I mean, it's like all the fucking time. Like how many, this is unfortunate, but yeah,

like I feel like a lot of people have the experience of especially people of marginalized genders of like my first boss who's not a man, and then they are also upholding the same shit. And you're like, well, what the fuck? What is the point? What is the point? You know, it's the tradwife phenomenon. It's like when black people become cops, you know, there's like a bunch of different examples. And there's all of these like societal reasons,

like you're saying, like there's societal reasons as to why this happens, but it is, it's like sad. It's sad to see characters like Anne. And I appreciated that. I thought that, yeah, that was like one of the more effective things in the movie. I guess I am fine with the way that that character went. But the thing I liked the most is that I feel like the movie, it does not have a ton of empathy for Anne, but I think it had a little bit in a way that I think was interesting where Noah, it seems like, is being presented with the beginnings of the same kind of dynamic, right?

Where like Noah, in order to escape the immediate circumstances, is having to play meatball with this guy. Right? Like he's, thank you, thank you. No, but like she is sort of having to play ball with him in order to liberate herself. And she is different. She liberates the other women who are trapped there. But I did think it was interesting that it was like, oh, this is almost certainly what happened with Anne, but she did not liberate the other people. And I would hazard a guess out of fear and like out of selfishness and fear.

Right. Which is why a lot of people of marginalized genders uphold the patriarchy, because it's personally advantageous and because they're afraid of not aligning. And you see it everywhere. You see it in fucking politics all the fucking time. Yes. We could keep going. Right. I think it has a lot to do with power dynamics as well, where people choose the side of the oppressor because the oppressor has more power, and they think that if they align with the oppressor, they will inherit some of that power. And that is true. And that does happen sometimes,

but it doesn't mean that they will be immune to oppression and marginalization because this oppression is very large scale and it's systemic and it needs to be fought against, which is what Noah does rather than what Anne does, which is like, you know, uphold it after she escapes, quote unquote, from the oppression. Yeah, I thought that was really effective. Yeah. And then I mean, we are quite literally bashed over the head with that message as well. When Molly kills Anne and I think she says like, bitches like you are the problem. Like, yeah, I came to you for help.

I almost like, again, I feel like I'm coming down too hard on that. I almost like didn't need that. I'm like, yeah, I know. We get it. I got it. Like, I got it. Yes, Anne is a part of the problem. But you know, it's a horror movie.

It can't be. It's weird. Sure, sure. But yeah, I thought that that was pretty effective. I did have just like a story logic question where so like they have two kids and Sebastian stands just bonking women over the head and meanwhile my sons are asleep. My two gorgeous sons are asleep upstairs. And his murder cannibal house is so far away. Like how does he have the time to drive there and back to his other house where his family lives? You know, you know, I don't, cheating men, you know, men, men with a secret life, they

make it work. They make it work. Yeah. Yeah. There are our strongest soldiers. Yeah. I thought the Ann stuff was effective. And I feel like that character's presence

was pretty well balanced. What I was interested in, what did you think of, when she saw, I don't know, I guess, okay, I do have questions about her ending, right? Because for a second I was like, are we supposed to believe that this is Anne's idea? No, it's Steve's idea, which makes more sense. Great But you know, she sees his body and I feel like you sort of get a sense of like a little bit of relief from her

She's like, all right, put it on ice. We're gonna sell his meat Yes, I feel like is the suggestion there, but then she like pretends to be grateful for Noah But then tries to kill her. I guess I was just like a little bit confi- I guess that's just the power dynamic, right? Where she's like, now I'm going to have the meat. business. business. Like, I guess I was a little confused about what her end game was, because theoretically, like, she is is now liberated too. Yes. But I don't know. Yeah, I guess that she's just like so deep in the meat. So deep in the meat.

Of course it's like she, I don't know, I guess I don't know how that would play out for her in the courts. But yeah, I'm like, and you really want to keep running this business? Like it seemed like it's kind of on so nice as it is. Yeah. In any case, I just wanted to mention that because I wasn't totally, because the movie does just end very quickly for me where I would have been interested in maybe one more beat with Anne to understand where she's coming from a

little better. Like obviously her character is indefensible, but like, in order to just like explore the idea that we were just talking about a little more and siding with the oppressor and what leads to there, I feel like it maybe would have benefited from a little more investigation of that, especially because like Noah and Anne, it seems like we're treated pretty similarly towards the beginning by Steve. And I almost feel like, well, then don't you want to see those characters, like, interact a little bit?

I don't know. I think it could have been interesting. Yeah. And what about Anne made her gravitate toward being complicit and being part of the problem? Exactly. Like, what were her circumstances that led her to that versus, like,

how did she differ from Noah? Right. I mean, because she is, obviously, she is a villain, but she's a more complicated villain than Steve, and I feel like it would have been interesting. And just, again, like, another chance to, like, have more character moments between the women in this movie that just kind of, like, another chance to have more character moments between the women in this movie that just doesn't happen. Yeah.

Also worth noting that Anne is a character with a prosthetic limb, which is not the case for the actor, Charlotte LeBond. So it's another example of an able-bodied actor playing a disabled character. I want to also briefly touch on the man who is with Anne at the end who she tells like put his body on ice. This is someone who we've seen briefly before seems to be like an assistant who like helps deliver the packaged meat. He appears to be like a First Nations indigenous person, but we don't know anything

about this person. He has like, I think no dialogue. We don't know why he would be working for this white couple doing their evil bidding. Like he clearly knows what they're doing. He's standing right there when like the dead body of Steve is there. Like he's packaging the me, you know, he's he knows what the operation is. Yeah. So it's just like why this care like this is not the inclusion or representation we need of indigenous characters. Why was this choice made? Yeah, a character that could be so easily removed. Again, yeah, just another like, it just feels a little bit like, what are we trying to do here?

Right, because like a lot of casting in contemporary movies within the past few years, it is more inclusive, but a lot of these movies are still made by white people and they're just like, oh, I have to fill a quota, right? You know, I want to be inclusive in my casting, but they're not giving a lot of thought about, like, who is in what role. Who is occupying what character?

Who has the narrative power, like, yeah. Yeah. And what implications a certain person cast in a certain role has, and whether that tracks logically at all. So that felt to me like an example of like, oh, let's see an indigenous person on screen. But in a role that could be taken out of the movie without any issue. Like, yeah, I agree with you there. And yeah, it's frustrating because I don't know who cast this movie. It is a fairly diverse cast, but it cuts along very, very tropey lines.

And this movie came out two years ago. There's really no reason for that to have happened. And it ultimately kind of undercuts what this movie is trying to do by subverting the gaze of a cannibal movie, which is a cool idea. And it works for me for the most part, but it's like that level of care, again,

it's just kind of, I mean, like a white femininity thing to do is for one message to come through really clearly, but the intersectional thinking, I don't think was there, at least in the casting. I mean, yeah, in the casting, I mean and yeah in the casting it definitely Wasn't for sure. Yeah, should we talk about Steve? Let's talk about Steve I have to say I thought the like rom-com portion of

This movie was very effective for me in terms of just like I mean rom-coms the wrong thing to call it But just I think my favorite parts of the movie, the cannibal stuff, great, sure. And I like it. But there was this like weird satisfaction of watching someone who is smart blow past all of these red flags. It just made me feel better about myself, you know? Where so many times, you know, it many times, if you end up in a bad situation,

you end up in a bad relationship, you're made out to be like, God, I'm... And she says that to herself, like, I'm so stupid. How could I have let this happen? And I feel like the movie does do a really good job of illustrating the fact. I mean, sometimes it's just Penny saying that through the wall. But like that, no, like there was not some crucial thing that you did wrong that means that you're now getting cannibaled. But I thought that the writing with like the subtle red flags, that whole section, that whole beginning section really worked for me. the landscape of modern dating and so many men, and I'm now speaking from personal experience here, but, like, cis men tend to not consider the fact

that people of marginalized genders move through the world very differently and that there's a level of, like, caution and self-preservation that we have to be far more concerned about than cis men. And I try to communicate that a lot with like people I've matched with on a dating app. And we're scheduling a first date. And I am, and not that I've always done this, but boy have I learned my lessons.

But like, generally speaking, I will insist that we meet in a public space and in a neighborhood that is familiar to me because I need an exit strategy. If I need to get away, I want to be able to do it safely and I want to like have it be in a place where I can navigate easily. But a lot of people who I'm like organizing a date with, and unfortunately I'm tragically heterosexual, so it's men who I'm organizing a date with, and unfortunately I'm tragically heterosexual, so it's men who I'm dating, they'll be like,

oh, well, just come over, you know? And I'm like, no, I haven't met you, I don't know you. I don't know if I can trust you. And they're like, of course you can, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, do you not understand that trust is something that people earn? You can't just declare that you're trustworthy and have me automatically trust you. But so many cis men don't seem to understand that. And again, I'll tell them, we have to meet in public. I want to hang out in public for a long time before I would ever consider like going

to your place or bringing you back to my place. Like, I have to know that I can feel safe. And like the number of men who just like do not even consider that or care about that is astonishing. It's interesting because I know that you and I like I think you approached dating much smarter than I have historically. But I mean, I really, I mean, you know, check the logs, but I do like, I agree with you. And especially anytime I feel like when I've done that dating, I've never even really said that that's what I'm doing, because I am afraid it will be interpreted as, you know, I'm afraid of the dynamic that introduces,

even though it's like, of course, of course you're thinking that. And I feel like a lot of men cannot handle the idea that they are not inherently trusted and that like the world doesn't fucking revolve around them for sure. And I mean, I think that what you're doing makes so much sense because it's like you're just normalizing like, there's no reason for me to trust you. You are a stranger. Yeah. And like, I have to move through the world differently. And I wish that there was a more like a clearer understanding to that. But I've definitely been, I won't even say guilty of that my instinct in the past has been to plan for that, but never say that that's what I'm doing. Because I'm afraid of how men react when their pride is injured, which can be scary. My experience is often violent. Yeah. Yeah. Or cruel or

whatever. I mean, I think you get that quick scene with the guy from Jane the Virgin at the beginning of the movie. Oh, is that who that is? Yeah. I didn't watch much of that show. I, for some reason, was so into it. But yeah, that he is the sort of archetypical bad date. And that this is what Noah is used to. And I think that that ends up being very effective. Because as I was watching the movie, I'm like,

I would have fallen for this. I would have. And I think that it's very, like you're saying, the red flags are very present and noted by her friend, but is subtle enough that she's like, it's probably not a big deal. Let's see what happens. And like that sort of looped thinking of like, well, if I am worried about this, then how am I ever going to have a relationship? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like feeling that sort of loop. I don't know.

And then when she gets to the house, I was like, soft triggered by, yeah, just going into someone's house and realizing you're like, oh, I don't know where I am. Or like, if I do know where I am, I'm not able to communicate easily enough. And now the power dynamic is such that I have to basically admit, I don't feel totally safe right now. Um, could you give me the tools to feel safer and sort of being at someone else's mercy, but having to maintain a like sexy like vibe while being like, okay, like, it's just, hey, what's your

Wi Fi password? Yeah, I mean, but like, I went on a weekend trip with someone who I had just recently started dating, you know, a couple of years ago. And there is like that moment where you're like, well, we don't know each other that well. Right. And you know, and then the more time we're spending together, I'm like, and I don't know if I like you very much. And you're like, well, how the fuck would I get out of here? I mean, it is just, yeah, I don't know. Dating men is just like means that you frequently find yourself in what feels like hostage situations. And that is a lot of why this movie works. Works, yeah. Okay, wait, I have so many thoughts.

One is that I think the fact that they meet under the circumstances of meeting in real life, quote unquote, versus meeting over a dating app might inform some of her feeling more at ease, even though they are perfect strangers and they don't know each other. But because I mean, to bring him back to our personal lives, you and I approach dating differently in the sense that I feel like you tend to date people who you have

met in real life, either, you know, in some kind of comedy circumstances or, you know, different settings where I've never done apps. Yeah. And I've pretty much only done dating apps. And that's how I've met like 95% of the people I've like briefly dated. So there is this level of like, Oh my God, I'm meeting up with a stranger who I've only corresponded with over text or maybe FaceTime, but like they're so strange. So that does mean that I feel like I have to be extra cautious and extra clear about my intentions because I totally get like being wary of setting boundaries because of how so many

men respond to setting boundaries and feeling like their ego is bruised because they're not automatically trustworthy. But like you said, I am trying to like normalize the idea of like men understanding that they are just inherently safer moving through the world than people of marginalized genders. Which is like, it feels so weird at this late stage that like, you have to be like, have you ever thought about this? You're like, and so, okay, there's a spectrum of what will happen if first of all, a man, just like, as this man saying, come over, we've never met in real life before, but let's have our first date on my couch.

That is a red flag just in and of itself. And I usually will just not talk to the people after that. But if we've already had some kind of like rapport that feels fun and we were flirting and we like it seemed like a good conversation and stuff like that, I will be like, no, actually I need to meet you in public. And then I'll explain why I'll be like, I need to make sure we vibe number one, because like if we're just sitting on your couch and I don't feel any romantic feelings. At best that's awkward. It's awkward. And it's like, don't you want to know if you vibe with me? Like what if you're not into me? Like this is a two way street, first of all. And I was like,

and that's just not safe for me. Like I don't feel safe or comfortable doing that. We have to meet in a neutral public place that is familiar to me. If they say, okay, totally get it, no worries, we'll go out for a drink or whatever, blah, blah, blah. Fine, I'll proceed. Anyone who pushes back, and I have had men push back on that to be like, ugh, then they act like I'm being difficult. Like, you saved yourself, yeah. Yeah, like, you know everything you need to know, which is that that person is scary

and doesn't understand boundaries and just, like like doesn't care about people being concerned for their own safety and all those things. So there's that. But I'm wondering like back to her meeting him in this public place and like done quote unquote everything right. And I feel like this movie makes it clear that even if you do everything right, that doesn't mean you're safe, which is a very, you know, negative message. But it's true. I mean, I guess like coming from the opposite place. And I mean, I'm just like, absolutely petrified of apps and just strangers in general. I think that's just like, my social anxiety is such that it's always been a non-starter

for me. So I've dated people that I met meet in person and you know, as this movie demonstrates, not better, not better. True. Different kind of bad. But I'm glad that there is and I guess I wonder because I haven't really experienced it, but that like when it's someone you haven't met in person before, it almost feels like maybe

a little bit easier to set that boundary because you're like, it just makes sense. Whereas like if it's someone I've met before, again, I mean, it's like I have a secret plan where it's like my boyfriend right now who, so far so good, I don't think he's going to steal my ass. No, I love the guy. But but like for our first date, I was like, let's go on a walk while it's light out.

Yeah. Even though I knew that we got along and that we vibed and because you already knew him a little bit, too. Right. Right. I mean, that's I think that that's like my level of paranoia with men that I was like, I will only really hang out with men that I am already pretty sure I'm not actively afraid of. Yeah, like I just don't trust other people's vouching. I just like, I just can't do it. And that's probably just like PTSD stuff from the past.

But like, but yeah, so I just was like, even with a man that I have known in passing for like a year, still it's like, we have to meet up when it's light, I need to like, understand what your general vibe is, right? So that I can get out. Yeah, because it's like, but like, even then you're, it's just so fucked up. I don't know. That's why I, and I like that there's like almost this expanded metaphor of, of course he's done this before. Of course I'm not special. And that I feel like was very resonant for me too is like, it is very tempting to be like, there's something different about me. And it's like, you know, occasionally, but it doesn't matter because the way a lot of cis men

will treat you is the exact same way they've love bombed and taken in a lot of other people who sometimes look strikingly similar to you. It's very spooky, it's scary. I was thinking about this experience I had that you know about, but like, I knew the guy I was dating had dated another woman who I had met before and we look not dissimilar. And when things ended in this very like horrible way,

I reached out to her and we had a sort of like moment of like the play by play was exactly the fucking same. But it's just it is so many like little echoes of this movie just felt so familiar. And I like that even though intersectionally, I don't think this movie does well at all. There is this like understood solidarity between most women. And I think that's also authentic too, as like there are ants in the world who are treated just as horribly as you are, but do not have solidarity with you at all. And I feel like, you know, seeing that gradient, even though I would have liked more depth in the characters, like I appreciate that.

Well, going back to the like blame and shame component of the movie that Noah feels, like we said, the red flags are so subtle that they are missable. At least until she gets to his house, he won't give her the Wi Fi password. And then she's drugged. Obviously, from that point on, like, the red flags are glaring. But prior to that, they are arguably not even red flags. Like, a lot of what he does wouldn't ping for someone as being like, you know, him not being on social media. That's something that some people just choose not to do. And it's not necessarily a red flag. You know, there's different things that maybe could be interpreted as a red

flag, but like, they're not. I'm like, unless you're old, you should at least have, controversially, you should have an Instagram account if you don't want me to think you're kind of fucking scary. I mean, even if you don't post, but I get it. Just have it. Yeah. Have like have, I do feel like there's a necessity to have someone be able to vouch for your existence. Otherwise you're like, what do you have to hide? And the answer is often something, something, right. But there are things that could be not even interpreted as a red flag, but she still could be not even interpreted as a red flag, but she still blames herself. And she thinks, she says like,

oh, I'm the only one who slept with him, oh my God. And she's disgusted with herself and humiliated. And Penny, although she does sort of like pass judgment to be like, wait, you slept with him? I don't think any others of us did, but I'm not slut shaming you. You know, so there's something to that. But she then follows up, Penny does by saying like, it's not our fault. It's always their fault.

And the idea of, like you said, you can do everything right or you can proceed with caution and you can just go about dating the way modern dating generally goes and it can still end horribly and it's because it's the fault of the perpetrators. Yeah, I like again, it's like it's all a little bit undercooked, but the core message of it and the fact that the empathy of the movie is clearly with Noah and that it's done I think just in a way we don't see in horror very often where it's like I

don't think a cis man could have written this movie because you do have to have sort of the lived experience of I have to protect myself and Thinking on the other end of that. How would I think if my friend told me this about this guy? Like I feel like that was all very like well how would I think if my friend told me this about this guy? I feel like that was all very well thought out and considered and didn't feel like 10 years. I feel like sometimes, especially with this, talking about modern dating, the technology's weirdly outdated,

which wasn't true here either, which I feel like is kind of hard to do. So kudos, kudos to, yes, because this movie is written and directed by women, white women, Mimi Cave and Lauren Kahn. And it's also produced by Adam McKay, which I love to hear it. I guess Lauren Kahn began as Adam McKay's assistant. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. I mean, I feel like we are seeing more horror movies from a more diverse array of directors and genre movies in general, but like, you know, keep it coming.

Keep it coming. Keep it coming. And that was my point. You reminded me of what my point was, which is that so many horror movies from years past did so much to blame the women for getting killed. You know, the whole trope of like, if you're a woman and you have sex with someone, then you're gonna get murdered. Right. There's that, you know, there's the final girl trope, which this movie avoids because

there are three final girls. And I think this movie is, again, trying to avoid racialized tropes in horror, but I would say it is less successful at doing that. I agree, yeah. Paul, just real quickly, on one hand, you have him recognizing the danger he's potentially in. He hears gunshots.

He's in the middle of the woods. And he acknowledges, like, I've seen this horror movie and I know that I don't make it out alive, so I'm going to bounce. But also is that kind of commentary on how, like, men tend not to be helpful in these situations when it comes to, like, women's liberationICK It felt unclear to me. Like, I thought the idea of it was interesting, but it kind of just felt like a weird joke. right back around? That was the thing I was curious about too. Yeah, especially because like I would be curious what got cut from this movie, because it did feel like there were certain little plot holes

that probably could have been fixed by another scene that might have existed at some point. Yeah, because Paul like has not that he's like a prominent character, but he does have more screen time than a character who randomly bails would have. Like you're just like, well then what was the, I mean, I guess, you know, his function is to connect Molly back to Noah again, a black character servicing ultimately servicing the white characters. Yeah.

But then at the end it's sort of like his whole character ends in this kind of confusing joke. It's also implied that he's only helping Molly because he thinks he has an opportunity to have sex with her again or to like reignite there. Which is like a man to do. And I appreciated that like Noah and Molly at different points use their wiles

to get what they need from who they need it from, where it's pretty clear from just how Noah and Molly talk about Paul that Molly is not interested and I think kind of ghosted him when they dated. Seems like it, yeah. So it's not like she's all of a sudden interested in him again. I think she possibly knows that this is his personality and wants to, you know, keep him involved and enticed. But again, you would think with Molly, and with all of these characters,

does Molly not have a second friend to tell, hey, I'm like someone that you would trust more than someone you ghosted last year? Like, it just, I get it, it's like a small cast and it's movie logic, but it just felt like another, it just, the smallness of these women's world, it just kind of bizarre. That's why I think it would have been interesting if like Molly is dating a woman and she's the person who helps Molly on this quest. And we see what that dynamic looks like. Not to say that like

women dating women is perfect in sunshine and butterflies and amazing and like that contrasted with women dating men. But like, that would have been an interesting dynamic to explore to see how those interactions are different or just see what that looks like. And also feels like, I mean, on Noah's part, like if Noah's always hanging out with a couple, that would sort of explain why she might be dating more. Yeah. Which, cause I mean, I've been the friend of a couple and it's like, if the couple is awesome, it's awesome.

But some days you're like, Wow, I am really the third wheel aren't I? No one's kissing me. This stinks. That's why I need to find myself a threeple to begin. Exactly. Yeah, I think that's all I really had for this movie. I think it's good. I like it. It passes the Bechdel test for sure. I think it's good. I like it. It passes the Bechtel test for sure. It does. Noah and Molly, they do talk a lot about Steve and they talk about dating men in general.

But I think that if you're going to not pass the Bechtel test, a great way to do it is to comment on how dating men is difficult and awful. And that they like are protecting each other. Yeah. Yeah, like, they're talking about protecting each other from men, which I feel like spiritually passes, or mistrusting men fundamentally. Yeah, right.

And then Noah and Penny talk about their situation. They do. Which they're only in this situation because of a man. But if, you know, I mean, I feel comfortable saying this movie pretty handily passes, technically and on vibes. But what about the most important metric of all time? Can you tell that I have to pee really bad because I started talking so fast. So what do you think in regards to the nipple scale? Will we rate the nipples? Zero to five nipples? Examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I'm going to give the movie three nipples. I mean, you

could look at this whole movie as like the meat eating of women as a kind of allegory or metaphor for just like the objectification and exploitation of women's bodies in society. And that's an interesting metaphor. And the fact that the women triumph at the end and they stand in solidarity with each other and do the opposite of what Anne does, which, you know, her thing is she becomes part of the problem. So, and it doesn't save her because it never does. Right. And she gets brutally bashed over the head with a shovel. Yikes. And so, right. So there's these cool things happening. The fact that the movie, even though the character blames herself, the movie is not blaming her for not, you know, seeing that she was being seduced by a cannibal

who was planning to sell her meat. So I think there's a lot of cool stuff going on. There are some things that I feel like were mishandled, especially in regards to casting choices and the characters who are people of color servicing the white characters and all that stuff. So three nipples. I will give one to Jojo T. Gibbs who plays Molly. I will give one to Andrea Bang who plays Penny and I'll give my final nipple to Sammy Akbari,

who we don't see on screen, but she's the character who leaves the note in the magazine. Amazing. Yes, I am gonna meet you at three. I think that this movie leaves something to be desired in terms of intersectionality. I feel like there's a lot of surfacey stuff

where there is a diverse cast and there is queer characters, but it still is ultimately a white hetero story. And these are the characters that are ultimately being serviced by the plot. However, when it comes to contemporary dating commentary, it's awesome. And like, I think it works super well. The performances are really good. The writing is really specific in a way that I'm not used to seeing in horror

because there's not enough women that get to take big swings in horror. So the highs are high, the lows are frustrating, but I am excited to see more, particularly from Mimi Cave. So I'll go three nipples. I will give one to Mimi Cave. I will give one to Jojo Gibbs. And I will give the final one to, oh my goodness, who played Penny?

I shut my tab. Fuck. Oh, Andrea Bang. Andrea Bang. And yeah, congratulations to Sebastian Stan for me recognizing him now. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Also quick shout out, sorry I know I have to pee, but I just want to say the moment of foreshadowing when Noah and Steve go back to her place for the first time and she's like, Oh, can I get you anything to drink or eat? And he says, no, just you

because he's going to eat her. Also just a classic cringe man thing to say. Yeah. No, I just want you, babe. I just want you to feel good. I'm like, no, you don't. Anyways, you fucking liar. And with that, and that's the Fresh Show movie. You can follow us everywhere.

You can follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast. You can follow us on Twitter at Bechtelcast. And you can subscribe to, and in fact, you should subscribe to our Patreon, aka Matreon. Patreon.com slash Bechtelcast. Five dollars a month gets you two bonus episodes every damn month. How nice is that? Don't you love that? That's so nice. You know what else is nice is the fact that I'm headlining two shows in Boston on November, oh gosh, is it 16th? So if you live in Boston and you want to see me do stand up, go to my website, CaitlinDorante.com and the links will be there for that. I just wanted to plug that real quick.

Now that's what I call nice. And if you want to see me live in person in Los Angeles, I'm workshopping my new show at The Lyric and you can check it out on November 20th and December 4th. And the other one's sold out, sorry. And you can also get our merch at teapublic.com slash The Bechel Cast. Holiday's coming up, babe. Could be fun. Could be. And with that, I have to go chop off my own ass and eat it for lunch. Me too.

Okay, bye. Bye. The Bechtel Cast is a production of iHeart Media, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrasensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus. And a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit www.linktree.bechtelcast.com. Hey everyone, it's Jay Shetty.

And I am so excited to let you know that my latest podcast interview is with the one and only Tom Hanks. I have left many wonderful atmosphere or a loving atmosphere without thinking, oh, things were really wonderful back then. I wish I was back there. Jay, I don't think I've ever thought that. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football. Every week, we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies

to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, what kind of dudes are these dudes? We're gonna find out, Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to Dudes on Dudes on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello my undeadly darlings. It's Teresa, your resident ghost host. And do I have a treat for you? Haunting is crawling out

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On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a warm woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a Mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your state.