The Bechdel Cast - From Dusk Till Dawn with Vanessa Guerrero

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

On this episode, Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Vanessa Guerrero discuss From Dusk Till Dawn at their favorite local watering hole, the Twitty Twister! Follow Vanessa at @nessguerrero on Twitter and at @snesguerrero everywhere else, and check out her show 'Ten Minute Power Hour' at https://gamegrumps.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, the time has finally come. This week, starting October 7th through October 11th, that's Monday through Friday everybody, we are revealing the iconic 400. Yes, Bo and Yang and I famously missed our 400th episode here on Los Cocheristas, but we are ready to reveal the iconic 400. Who is on the list? Does it matter? No.

Will it be fun? Yeah, there might even be a surprise or two in there. So listen carefully Listen to lost culture East us on will ferrell's big money players network on the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Hey, I'm Jackie Thomas the host of a brand new black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or

wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. Hey, it's Mike and Ian. We're the hosts of How to Do Everything from NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Each week we take your questions and find someone much smarter than us to answer them. Questions like, how do you survive the Bermuda Triangle? How do you find a date inside the Bermuda Triangle? How do you find a date inside the Bermuda Triangle? We can't help you, but we will find someone who can.

Listen to the How to Do Everything podcast on iHeartRadio. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, 1974. George Foreman was champion of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. Story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only a Hollywood movie.

But that is only half the story. There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, B.B. King, Miriam Makeba. All the biggest black artists on the planet. Together in Africa. It was a big deal. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Maria Kondakova.

And I'm Nate Silver. And our new podcast, Risky Business, is a show about making better decisions. We're both journalists whom we light as poker players, and that's the lens we're going to use to approach this entire show. We're going to be discussing everything from high stakes poker to personal questions. Like whether I should call a plumber or fix my shower myself. And of course we'll be talking about the election too. Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. have women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin vast, start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hey Jamie. Hey Caitlin.

Wanna go to the Titty Twister with me and have a couple drinks? Conceptually, yes. drinks? Conceptually, yes. In reality, I'm not so sure. I don't know. I mean, getting past the door guy alone seems pretty existentially stressful. I mean, weren't you just so drawn in by Cheech Marin's speech about pussy? Yeah, I can't get it until Cheech Marin breaks the fourth wall about pussy. I like as kind of like yucky as that speech is, I do wish that more movies included Cheech Marin breaking the fourth wall via a long protracted speech about pussy. I would not hate that. I would maybe have some notes on like the dialogue. I maybe not let Quentin Tarantino write about Pussy anymore, even I would say. But yes, I do support in general that happening.

What if that happened at the entrance to the Chamber of Secrets? You know, like anytime you're entering the big mysterious location, Cheech Merrim was just there with his like pussy speech. What's another big like any haunted house movie? Sure. Um the haunted mansion. Eddie Murphy can't enter until he gets there. Cheech Marin. And then Eddie Murphy punches the shit out of Cheech Marin before he goes inside. I mean I not never happy to see Cheech take a punch, but something to consider for future. He's still alive, right? Yeah.

Okay. He's old, but kicking. And in the Cars franchise, which I always forget. And Warren's repeating. Yes. We just haven't covered a Cars movie yet, have we? I think, yeah, the fact that we got eight whole years into our feminist podcast without discussing Cars, I just don't know how it happened.

The time just slips away. Well, just you wait, listeners, for Cars February. Welcome to the Bechtel cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point. We've talked about it so many times at this point.

So you know, look it up, go back to a previous episode. I feel like we just got to get into it today. I like that we've like gotten to the era where we're like, we're not gonna explain what it is anymore. It will come up once in like 90 minutes and that's it. Right, I mean, again, we've been on for eight years. In that time, we have not talked about cars, but we have explained our version of the Bechtel test. Easily 500 times. 500 times.

Literally. So we're just gonna move past it today and just bring in our guest for this episode on from Dusk Till Dawn, 1996 Robert Rodriguez film. Our guest is a producer and writer at Game Grumps. You know her from our episodes on John Wick, Raw, Bound, Atomic Blonde. This is the fifth appearance, five timers club. It's Vanessa Guerrera. Yay! Welcome back! The first time I heard the Cheech Marin pussy speech,

I had watched this movie on cable with my mom and they dubbed over it by calling it Kitty. And my mom didn't love that I kept repeating Apple Pie Kitty around the house. Sopping wet kitty. Chicken kitty, horse kitty. Wait, that is so, I love a TBS edit anecdote. That's the greatest.

There's a lot of them for movies written by Tarantino specifically because there's the My Name's Buck and I Like to Party. Yeah. Classic. Yeah. I mean, he does, if nothing else, write movies designed that are very difficult to broadcast. So Vanessa, what is your relationship with From Dusk Till Dawn? So the first time I saw this movie,

it was at a very long hair brushing session with my mother as I have long and ridiculous curly hair. And this movie was on cable. And my mom isn't one for gore and violence, but she does love Cheech Marin and George Clooney. So we just sat and watched this entire movie in a day and I ended up falling in love with it. And I looked up Robert Rodriguez

and watched everything he had ever done and told my parents I wanted to get into entertainment and they sat over my dead body. But jokes on them, I ended up working for Robert Rodriguez anyway. So this was a big gateway film for me for both a lot of genre film and then the idea that just anybody could make something. So that was like instrumental to me.

And yeah, this is a very fundamental film for me. And every time I watch it, I find more and more reasons to be grossed out by Quentin Tarantino. Yes. Yes. Gosh. I mean, and I do like that. I mean, on a longer timeline, Robert Rodriguez sort of took the authorial role in this franchise instead of Tarantino continuing to write it. Because as you're watching this, you're like, they should have just let him rewrite the movie if he was gonna direct it. Like it's unfair to make him direct some of this dialogue. I know that they're bros, but come on. Yeah. Come on.

Wow, I didn't realize this was such an important movie to you, Vanessa. It was, and it's really funny because it was like the first time I saw my mom indulge in anything that was like willfully gross So I learned a little bit about my mom that day where I was like, oh, you're kind of a weirdo, too Hmm, I love those moments. I went to see Team America world police in theaters with my mom

That has an extended like puppet sex scene. There's a scene where a puppet's puking for several minutes and I was like sitting next to my mom and she wasn't like scandalized by it really. So I was like, okay, my mom's into some freak shit. Lori's cool. Jamie, what's your relationship with the movie? Um, I had not seen this movie before.

Um, I was, I don't know why it just, the cards never, the, the stars, whatever metaphor I was reaching for there. It didn't happen. Yeah. Um, although I would consider myself a Robert Rodriguez fan, which probably sounds like fake fan because I have not seen this movie, but I've seen many of his movies. I read his book. I really love his book in particular, Rebel Without a Crew.

If you haven't read it, be sure to read it. It's so good. It's a classic. It's very inspiring. I've seen his first feature. I don't know. I've seen a lot of Rodriguez movies this last year, so I'm filling in the blanks in my knowledge. I think like a lot of people,

I came into Robert Rodriguez in his family era. I was there for the Spy Kids, Spy Kids 2, Island of Lost Dreams, Spy Kids 3D game over, and of course Sharkboy and Lava Girl, which we should cover someday. But have gone on to, you you know like watch his um not that spy kids is not an actual movie it's in fact a classic but his adult movies um but this was of

my first time with this movie uh we i know we've covered sin city in the past i mean we covered his work i was this is like sidebar but i did not realize his like feel to you to the spy kids universe. He still directs every spy kids movie. Yes, he does. Including the ones that like don't feature any of the original cast. The ones where they like recast Antonio Banderas with Joel McHale. Like what?

Okay. I didn't even know there were spy kids movies past the third one. There was one last year, Caitlin, Gary and Robert Rodriguez. I mean, they're part of his expanded universe, but I just think it's very cool that he still is like, no, I'm Mr. Spy. Another director. Yes, he is the ultimate spy kid. Anyways, this movie, I really like the second half. And the first half I was like, when is it gonna when is something gonna get gross? When is something gonna get scary? What am I

watching? I do I like this? No. And then all of a sudden, almost at the exact halfway mark, I really liked it until the end. So it was a journey. It's a very weird movie. It is. Yeah, I don't think I've ever quite seen a movie take this hard of a turn that deep into the movie, but I'm excited to talk about it. Yeah, Caitlin, what is your history with this movie?

I had seen it once before and it was something I always wanted to rewatch because I remember enjoying it at the time. This was probably 20-ish years ago that I saw it for the first time and the things I remember the most, the things that were like seared into my brain for all time were Selma Hayek being the hottest person in the world in this movie. Hasn't been done before or since. I remember the big midpoint reveal because it sort of comes out of nowhere.

For something like, for example, Jurassic Park where suddenly, you know, big scary things are attacking everyone. That's heavily foreshadowed earlier on. So it doesn't come out of nowhere. This movie truly, you're just like, oh, it's vampires now. Oh, okay. And it is, it's that shot where salma hayek turns into a snake vampire right yeah again like

while there are criticisms to be made of this movie like the chiche marin thing i would like a lot of movies to to make that same choice and then of course i remembered the dick gun. Yes. Couldn't forget that. The dick gun. Sex machines. Sex machines dick gun. Seared into my memory for all time. Played by the incredible Tom Savini.

Yeah. I really appreciated him. So I love the band when the band, I think the image that will be seared into my brain forever is when the band's instruments turn into just like guys. And there's little skeleton maracas. I really like pause that scene to be like, Ooh, what's going on back here? Because like, yeah, they were not doing it halfway. Every guy had a little freaky body horror instrument. It was awesome. See, I only noticed the guitar, the torso guitar. The torso. You got to slow it down.

Yeah, they got really silly with it. It was really fun. Nice. So anyway, I wanted to rewatch this movie not remembering much about it aside from those specific things. And upon rewatching it, I had a very similar experience to you, Jamie, as far as hated the first half. It's a slog.

It's just full of all these problematic, nasty things. It feels like a Tarantino movie for the first half. Yeah. To me anyways. And then it gets really fun. Yeah. So I'm excited to talk about it. Let's take a quick break and then get into the recap, shall we?

Take a quick break and then get into the recap, shall we? Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric. Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out, like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Ested Herndon, but we're also gonna have some fun,

even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha B., Roy Wood Jr., and Charlemagne the God. We're going to take some viewer questions as well. I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or

just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sup, y'all, this is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates

and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimini, to tell you all about it.

Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Are you ready for an explosive new podcast that brings together hip hop and history? Check it out. Hey, y'all. Are you ready for an explosive new podcast that brings together hip hop and history? My name is Nimmini, and I'm the host of Historical Records, a brand new podcast for kids and families that proves

in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Flash slam, another one gone. Fast bam, another one gone. The cracker to bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone, bash bam. Another one gone, the cracker to bat. And another one gone, the tip of the cap. Cause another one gone. And the best part, I make the show entirely by myself. Impressive, right? Me too, right?

OK, OK, maybe I get a little bit of help from my sidekick, Tina the Raccoon. Every week on Historical Records, join me, Nimini, and Tina the Raccoon as we learn about the unsung heroes of the past and turn their history into hip hop. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. inside the Bermuda Triangle. We can't help you, but we will find someone who can. Listen to the How to Do Everything podcast on iHeartRadio.

I'm Kari Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down to history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Every great player needs a foil.

I ain't really in here with no boys. I just come here to play basketball every single day and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is braggadocious. She is unapologetically black.

I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. Listen to the making of a rivalry,

Caitlin Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Jacquees Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jacquees Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audio books while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace,

wisdom and refuge between the chapters. From thought provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Black Lit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Black Lit on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back and we're throwing back drinks at the Titty Twister ready to recap from dusk till dawn. Incredible. I'll place a content warning at the top here for rape and violence against women because

that is those are the identifying characteristics of Quentin Tarantino's character. And we'll get into it. But before we start, has anyone ever seen the clip when I told my boyfriend I was watching this? He was like, have you seen the George Clooney interview for this movie? And then he showed me and it really made me laugh and re-endeared me to George Clooney. Wait, what does he say? It's very funny. I guess that he is, it's for the like press junket for this movie.

And he's talking about how he got the role. And he's like, I guess Quentin Tarantino was watching ER and saw me and was like, whoa, I look so much like that guy. We could be brothers. Oh my God. And then George Clooney keeps going. He's like, and I just was like, I don't really think so, but I'm interested in the movie. Like, that's how we got the part. It's like, like Tarantino thought he and Clooney looked so much alike,

they could be brothers. And that's why that happened. Delusional. It's so embarrassing. That's humiliating. I mean, Tarantino is such an embarrassing, shitty person, Zionist freak. So, you know, one of our most embarrassing living people. But that was just really like, I, it's a very funny interview clip, because George Clooney is not pretending to respect the thought of looking like Argentina remotely. So there's that. Anyways, I'm glad I know that that's very funny. The movie opens on a Texas Ranger going into a liquor store to buy a couple things from the clerk.

And when he goes to use the restroom, we find out that the store is in the middle of being robbed and hijacked by two brothers, Seth and Richard slash Richie Gecko, played by George Clooney and his identical twin brother, Quentin Tarantino, respectively. Casting directors everywhere were like, we've got to get these two guys next to each other, they're twins. They had just robbed a bank and they're on their way to Mexico.

And the whole thing turns into this violent shootout after Richie, who is a loose cannon, shoots the Texas Ranger. After this, Seth and Richie leave, mostly unscathed. They get in their car and drive off. We also learn that they have a hostage who they took from the bank robbery who they've trapped in the trunk of their car. The brothers stop at a motel and get a room. They bring the hostage inside. This is a woman named Gloria. Seth steps out for a moment and when he comes back, he discovers that his brother Richie had raped and murdered Gloria. And he's very pissed at Richard, but not enough to not keep hanging out with him. Meanwhile

we meet a family who is on a road trip in their motorhome. The dad is Jacob Fuller played by Harvey Keitel of National Treasure fame, his most famous role. I think he would want that to be what you led with. Yes, I think so. Yeah, as well as his two kids who are teens, maybe early 20s. Kate seems to be like 1920, perhaps. She's played by Juliette Lewis and her brother Scott, who I think is maybe like 1617, who I think is maybe like 1617, played by Ernest Lew. Their mother has recently passed away and it has made Jacob, who is a pastor, question his faith in God.

So that's some backstory for them. They end up stopping at the same motel that Seth and Richie are at, who barge into the family's room, hold them at gunpoint, and force them to drive the brothers across the border into Mexico in their motor home. The plan for the brothers is to cross into Mexico,

meet up at a specific rendezvous point with this guy named Carlos, who is going to give them sanctuary in a place called El Rey in exchange for some percentage of the money they robbed from the bank. There's a tense moment at border patrol with an officer played by Cheech Marin, his first of three characters who he plays in the movie. He's really going full Norbit in this movie. Yes, he is. Which we can all hope to in He's really going full Norbit in this movie. Yes he is.

Which we can all hope to in our acting careers go full Norbit. We all deserve a Norbit moment. That's right. So there's this tense moment where they almost get found out because Richie is being impulsive and insecure again, but they make it across into Mexico and they head to the rendezvous point which is a bar

called the Titty Twister which is open from dusk till dawn hey that's the name of the movie I will say the neon titty twister sign pretty iconic pretty great, very cool. Yes. So, the plan is for Seth, Richie, and the family of three to go inside and just like drink and hang out until Carlos arrives and takes the brothers to El Rey, at which point they plan to let the family go free. They arrive at the Titty Twister. It's this like, Titty bar slash dive for bikers and truckers. Cheech Marin is out front playing his second character named Chet Pussy. And he's given a speech. I did not know that was that character's name. His god-given name. Yep.

Oh, right. And, you know, he's giving his famous pussy monologue. And for some reason, I couldn't quite tell why, but Seth punches the shit out of Chet Pussy and then Richie, like, kicks him while he's down. And this will pay off later. But they go inside. it's rowdy, there's lots of testosterone, there are nude women dancing. The place is full of characters.

We've got Danny Trejo as the bartender. We've got a guy named Sex Machine who has the dick gun. There's this like big dude who Seth almost gets into a bar fight with. And if you're wondering, hmm, we're in a stripper bar. How long is it going to take for a woman to speak in this space where gender parity is, is fairly prominent. And it will take outside of Juliette Lewis a really long time, like a freakishly long time.

Yes. Correct. Women will not speak or really even make eye contact or act as if they're anything but set dressing for a good 20 minutes. They'll hiss and growl before they speak. Even Selma Hayek, there's like a long stretch where I mean like she is certainly present.

She's like performing, it's incredible. But for a while she just sort of stands there and does not seem to be listening or reacting to the dialogue It's incredible. But for a while she just sort of stands there and does not seem to be listening or reacting to the dialogue that's happening. You're just like, Tarantino, whatever. Whatever. Right. Okay. So the two brothers and the family of three sit down and start drinking, though the family is reluctant at first. they are still the hostages of these two you know maniacal brothers then Selma Hayek comes out she's a dancer named Santanigo pandemonium great name a reference to a horror movie from the 70s I think yeah a nunsploitation movie right

we've got to cover some nunsploitation on the show. That would be such a blast. Yeah, we'll get there But she's doing a very sexy dance with this big snake wrapped around her and all the men are like a wouga and She finishes her show and just then Chet Pussy Comes back in along with then Chet Pussy comes back in along with bartender Danny Trejo and the big dude from earlier and they all gang up on Seth and Richie who fight back and kill these three guys except they don't kill them because they're already dead because twist they're all vampires.

And all of a sudden the movie is so awesome and great and we love it. Yes, yes exactly it's at this point where things get fun and it turns out everyone who works at this bar is a vampire all the dancers including Santanico Pandemonium who transforms into reptile vampire and bites Richard, killing him. Danny Trejo and Cheech Marin, all the others, reveal their true vampire forms and start attacking and feeding on the non-vampire patrons. Some of the patrons fight back, such as Seth, Jacob, and his family, Sex Machine, and this guy named Frost played by Fred Williamson. This group is basically like the last ones standing

after this whole initial vampire frenzy. I really love that exchange between Juliette Lewis and Sex Machine. Oh my god it's so funny. He's like what's your name? She's like Kate what's yours? Sex. Nice to meet you. Right. You too. And there is always like, there's, it's just unspoken allyship. We will not be asking follow up questions at this time. I love it. Yeah, that's great. We are a band of brothers. Yes. Then Richard, Richie comes back as a vampire and Seth has to kill his own brother. And he's sad about it, but I'm like, yes, please end this character once and for all,

get him out of the movie. I have a genuine question for the Zoom call. Yeah. Putting our 1996 goggles on, are we supposed to be sad to see him go? I felt like we maybe are supposed to feel ambivalent about it even at the time of release. I don't know. I wasn't clear on this. He's kind of designed to be cannon fodder. Like he's

so revolting and just like such a constant problem and has no redeeming qualities that it's kind of easy to throw him out first. Because you're like, okay, well now the stakes are high and I know what it means, but I'm not like that bummed. Right, and it also does like serve to advance George Clooney's characters, like advancing towards God or whatever they're doing in the back half.

Okay, because I just was, I was doubting myself for a second where I was like, in the present day, you're like, yeah, bye. But like, I didn't know. It seemed like we were supposed to feel fairly ambivalent towards it, even at the time. Right. But at the same time, I was like,

well, wouldn't it carry more emotional weight if the first character to die was someone who we did care about and were sad to see go? And I was like, wow, Tarantino's such a bad screenwriter for not like ensuring that that's the case. But I can also see like, oh, to establish how high the stakes are, we off a character that we weren't meant to care about. But yeah, I don't really it's kind of I was struggling with that as well.

It's really hard to put yourself in the creative mind of someone who thinks they look like George Clooney. Yes. So I just kind of was a little puzzled on that. But and who wrote himself a character that Salma Hayek would put her foot in his mouth and like drizzle whiskey down it and he's like gobbling that all up and I'm just like, sir, you self indulgent motherfucker. Anyway, okay, so we've got this group they've just killed Richie who turned into a vampire. Then they hear a bunch of flapping wings outside. These are vampires in bat form trying to break into the bar. Then a few of the other patrons

who had been bitten moments earlier come back as vampires. So there's another round of killing the vampires, but then sex machine gets bitten. So we know that he will soon turn. But he keeps it quiet. He's not trying to go. I love that scene too. He's like, he realizes like his hands are transforming and he, his fangs are coming out and he's like trying to hide it and like be coy in a really goofy way. I thought that was really funny. This is a great performance.

So then the group kind of chats a bit and figures out what do we know about these vampires, how do we kill them, what weapons do we have at our disposal, and they realize their best weapon is Jacob, since he's a pastor, a mean motherfucking servant of God, to be exact, to fight these demons from hell. Then we get the scene where sex machine turns into a vampire and bites Frost and Jacob before he turns. Frost flings sex machine into the door, busting it open. So all the bats fly in as Seth, Kate, and Scott take refuge in a like storage cellar. Jacob is still in

the bar area for a moment but he's able to fend off this horde of vampires and join up with Seth and his kids and then he makes Kate and Scott promise that when he inevitably turns they will kill him and they reluctantly agree and they arm themselves with whatever they can find in the storage area they figure out that these vampires kill like it's a bar for bikers and truckers specifically because like it's just like people passing through and they can kill and steal whatever they were hauling. So there's crates of crossbows and super soakers that they fill up with holy water

that Jacob has blessed, stuff like that. I love the implication with the crossbow because the crossbow comes in a box that's shaped like a coffin with a cross in it. The implication that a vampire hunter came through was killed and they robbed his shit. Oh, yeah. I didn't even make that connection. But yeah, I also felt for for poor Scott who I mean, I know that he does have like a powerful

weapon, but the fact that he somehow like saddled with a super soaker, it just was humiliating. Yeah, just like and it wasn saddled with a super soaker, it just was humiliating. Yeah. Just like, and it wasn't even a powerful super soaker. It was like a- Of all those weapons, I would have wanted the super soaker the most because I know how to handle a super, I don't know how to shoot a crossbow. You have a license. You have a license to kill with a super soaker full of holy water.

Like a super soaker full of holy water is very a super sucker full of holy water is very funny. I'm not arguing. But it just was funny when every anytime they were cutting to him, you're like, damn, he really got the short end of the weapon stick. Kate looks so cool. And he has a super soaker. Anyways, I like it. Okay, so they arm themselves and they go back into the bar, killing vampires along the way. They rip off Sex Machine's head.

He comes back as like a dog vampire or something. So there's like a showdown with him. There's a showdown with Vampire Frost. Then Jacob finally turns and bites his son Scott, who retaliates and kills Jacob just like he promised he would. Then vampires start tearing Scott apart so Kate kills her brother to save him from you know becoming a demon. So now it's just Seth and Kate and dozens of vampires are descending on them but then they realize the Sun is coming up it's a dawn heard

of it so they shoot a bunch of holes in the walls so the beams of sunlight come in and burn and explode the vampires so they're saved and then Carlos finally shows up also played by Cheech Marin. Right, rule of three, Cheeches. Yes. And so Seth and Kate say goodbye. Seth heads off with Carlos. Kate drives off in the motorhome.

And then we get this final reveal that the Titty Twister was built on the remains of a presumably Aztec pyramid surrounded by dozens of like discarded semi trucks from all the truckers, the vampires killed. So that's the movie. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss. Hey everyone, it's Katie Couric.

Well, the election is in the home stretch and I'm exhausted. But turns out the end is near, right in time for a new season of my podcast, Next Question. This podcast is for people like me who need a little perspective and insight. I'm bringing in some FOKs, friends of Katie's, to help me out like Ezra Klein, Van Jones, Jen Psaki, Astaed Herndon, but we're also gonna have some fun even though these days fun and politics seems like an oxymoron. But we'll do that thanks to some of my friends like Samantha Bee, Roy Wood Jr. and Charlemagne the God. We're gonna take some viewer questions as well.

I mean, isn't that what democracy is all about? Power to the podcast for the people. So whether you're obsessed with the news or just trying to figure out what's going on, this season of Next Question is for you. Check out our new season of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So y'all, this is Questlove,

and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th.

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Flash slam, another one gone. Bash bam, another one gone. A cracker to bat and another one gone. A tip but a cap, cause another one gone. And the best part, I make this show entirely by myself. Impressive, right? Me too, huh? Oh, okay, okay. Maybe I get a little bit of help from my sidekick, Tina the Raccoon.

Every week on Historical Records, join me, Nimini, and Tina the Raccoon, as we learn about the unsung heroes of the past and turn their history into hip hop. Listen to historical records on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Mike and Ian. We're the hosts of How to Do Everything from NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Each week we take your questions and find someone much smarter than us to answer them. Questions like how do you survive the Bermuda Triangle? How do you find a date inside the Bermuda Triangle? We can't help you, but we will find someone who can.

Listen to the How to Do Everything podcast on iHeartRadio. I'm Keri Champion and this is season four of Naked Sports, where we live at the intersection of sports and culture. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. I know I'll go down to history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game.

Every great player needs a foil. I ain't really in here them boys. I just come here to play basketball every single day, and that's what I focus on. From college to the pros, Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is braggadocious.

She is unapologetically black. I love her. What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to get better because the talent is getting better. Listen to the making of a rivalry,

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Where shall we start? Oh boy. I do want to say that at the end, not only were they killed by holes in the wall, but a disco ball, which is the funniest way to kill a vampire. So good. Such a good last minute addition. And it was like planned. It was there the whole time and it never even occurred to me.

Chekhov's disco ball. Exactly. Really good. All of the like practical effects and like the turn that the movie takes is so fucking good. Like and the fact that Robert Rodriguez was I think like 27, 28 when he made this is anytime I read about Robert Rodriguez's career, you're just like, how dare you be so awesome. So or like, it's just really incredible that just how creative and innovative he was so young. Yeah, the practical effects are nuts. It's so good.

Yeah, so a little bit of development context for this movie. The story was conceived by a guy named Robert Kurtzman, who wrote the treatment for the film in the late 80s. Basically he wrote it because he wanted to create a story that his special effects studio could make. So he's like, I wanna make like a special effects heavy movie and he hired Tarantino to write the script. This was Tarantino's first paid writing assignment. This was 1990 at this point.

And he's like, yeah, I'll do it if you provide the makeup for my movie, Reservoir Dogs. So they had this little reciprocity kind of thing. Kurtzman originally wanted to direct the movie, but he hadn't directed a feature before. So they were like, let's get someone who has, you know, made a movie before. So then Tarantino basically was like,

how about this Robert Rodriguez guy? I think he'd be perfect. At this point, Miramax was involved. So unfortunately, Harvey Weinstein is part of this, but it started shooting in 94. So that's kind of the context for the conception and development of this movie. So it's a lot of men and you can tell. Oh, it's entirely non-union too. And it's, right. Yes, yes. We've really, through me for a loop

with a $19 million budget. You're just like the maths where show me, show me how this makes any possible feasible sense. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I it this feels like the like we were saying earlier, like the front half of this movie feels so Tarantino who we've talked about like, unfortunately, extensively on this show. We've talked about like, unfortunately extensively on this show. I guess since we covered him last year, it's worth saying he's a huge fucking Zionist. He sucks.

Yeah. In this way that we haven't mentioned recently, I don't think. But even outside of that, he's so frustrating as a writer because I don't know, there are certain male writers. It's not like I want to give them benefit of the doubt but like I there are certain writers who are men who are like I truly don't believe you can write a character confidently who is not a man but Tarantino we know that's not true like Jackie Brown comes out the year after this yes like we know he can write women

intelligently and thoughtfully if he wants to. So for this script you're just like, oh, he just like didn't want to. Like you have Kate, but that is it. And even she's like pretty undercooked. It's on the writing end and like it, and he like has way more interest in, and I know he's pulling from Grindhouse stuff, but it's like do something with it, man. Like, you know, because again, we know he can do that, but he's just like choosing not to here. So I mean, his writing, especially pre midpoint, I just found like unbelievably frustrating because you know, he can do better and he's just not.

Oh yeah. Like we remember Kate as this like really interesting, strong character, but that's more a testament to Juliet Lewis's performance And it is her actual character the way it's written. Mm-hmm. I mean, it's so frustrating Yeah, and Juliet Lewis does a great job Like I feel like she like makes a meal of the part with more than is even on the page But it also you're like you have some a high egg and you didn't give her anything to do Outside of this like less than 10 minutes stretch. I kept waiting for her to come back

I keep waiting for her to like reappear out of the goo She never ungoos. No, she never ungoos But yeah, just to speak a little bit more to that, the first half, which again, and Tarantino is very all over the place, as we've been suggesting as far as like, sometimes he'll put in a lot of effort and he'll write something like Kill Bill or he'll write Jackie Brown and then other times he'll write himself into the movie where he's saying the N-word dozens of times, a la Pulp Fiction, or he writes this movie that's like full, the opening scene is just like an ableist diatribe

for five minutes, and then you have a bunch of characters dropping all these racist slurs and homophobic slurs, and the fact that his own character that he wrote for himself is a rapist creep who like hallucinates a scene where Kate asks him to perform oral sex on her and then that's brought back and it's just like to what end I don't understand a lot of these choices and like part of me is like okay well the characters who go on this like ableist rant at the beginning is that to justify them being murdered shortly after because those two characters are shot and killed and it's like okay well were they written that

way so that we won't feel bad when they die but it, I don't really understand a lot of the choices. And I think that Tarantino just like has a tendency to revel in edgelord, ableist, racist, homophobic diatribes, because we see him do it in several of his movies. So I don't know. He has a very nihilistic view of like what the general public thinks. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Yeah. Vanessa, I don't know. Yeah, Vanessa, how did this story age for you because you have connection to it? The first half, age like milk. Uh. Mm-hmm. Both like the Tarantino-ness of it all, and I'm not saying like a bad person

has to be a likable character, but sometimes things feel like, at least from Tarantino's end, self-indulgent, where it's like, oh, I can do this because I can. No one's really stopping me. And it's gross. And here's the thing. Both halves of this movie are gross.

The first half is gross and the second half is gross. But the first half is gross in a way that makes you feel weird in your skin. And the second half is gross and the second half is gross. But the first half is gross in a way that makes you feel weird in your skin and the second half is gross in the way that's like grimy, gritty, like just the kind of thing that you actually like out of an exploitation film. And it's so interesting to me how these two halves conflict against each other because again the second half takes everything that you like out of like grind house into it. And then the first half, it's just like,

oh, it's everything that was like embarrassing and shameful about the genre in the first place. Right. Yeah. It's weird, because it's like, like you're saying, Vanessa, both halves of this movie are very heavily referential to stuff that came before it, but like couldn't feel

more different and how it ages. I don't know. I mean, the Richie character feels like sort of the most logical place to start where like we've all established. No one's really sad to see him go then and now. I think in like a modern audience, this would get a like full on cheer from the crowd when he's off. But even so, I mean, just a really knowingly despicable character, who it makes sense that the George Clooney has a connection to, but it's just like, it just, I don't know, I felt like nothing was subverted by this character existing. And if Tarantino's whole thing is that he's referencing these old niche genres and subverting things or adding things or modernizing them, this like didn't do that, I don't think. And in a way where I think like, again, with the exception of Kate, every woman we meet in this movie dies, or is constantly

I mean, in in kids case, constantly under the threat of violence, even if they don't, even if they aren't killed by it the way that characters like Gloria are the way I mean, and it's it's more fun when the way you die is that you are a vampire who turns into goo, far easier to get on board with. But even so, yeah, I don't know. I just, it felt like, you know, women were largely set dressing in this world. And with in the case of Rodriguez and Tarantino, they know how to not do that. So it feels more deliberate that they're choosing to. Yeah, the richie character being this like predator, this rapist, which his

brother Seth challenges and says, What's wrong with you? This is not okay. I don't go around doing this. Why are you doing this? But again, he's like, but let's go to Mexico and hang out forever so not challenging him enough and now we have this looming threat for Kate the only like major character in the movie who is a woman this threat that she might be sexually assaulted by this guy and for what? Like there's already enough tension with the brothers abducting this family and holding them hostage. There's tension in this imminent vampire attack kind of thing. So like I just don't know like why make it a point to make the only

major character who's a woman feel unsafe in that context when like the movie's about something else. It's about vampire. I just it's played for a bit too. Yeah, like it's played for laughs. Like ha ha ha, this creep won't stop looking at this young girl and imagining weird shit about her. And like they even have that like conversation where he's like, Oh, did you want me to actually do that? And she's just like, okay, dude, whatever. And it's played for laughs. Right. And that never, I kept waiting for that to like come back

or have the fact that he was like hallucinating these interactions have a narrative impact, but you're right, it was just a joke. Like it was, isn't this hilarious that this guy is so delusionally abusive that he assumes that women are giving consent for him to do something that they haven't set. Like it's just so many levels of fucked and irritating. And I don't know. Yeah. I feel like the threat of sexual violence did not need to be hanging over Kate the way it did for the stakes to stay high like you're saying, Caitlin.

Right. And then as far as the other women who we do see, again, most of them are nameless, set dressing nude dancers. So there's all kinds of heavy objectification and sexualization. And then these women are brutalized in a way that feels different when the like man vampires are killed. It feels like the movie is again like reveling in men inflicting violence on these women vampires. And it feels like the movie finds them to be you know disposable beings to be killed not just because they're vampires but also because they are sex workers and it's like oh yeah we can easily cast them off and and kill them in a very exploitative way because they are sex workers and the the problematic stuff carries on into the like fun second half, the second half isn't immune to a lot of the problematic stuff we see earlier on. But I guess the only thing because I agree that they do die in very exploited ways.

The only thing that made me feel better is that everyone dies. Yes, so it wasn't like they were Uniquely god, this is like so depressing but like they weren't uniquely dead but I do agree that the way that they were, you know framed and Killed like drew emphasis to their bodies and all this stuff But I wasn't glad that at least I was like if they're dying we're taking everyone out and that at least the movie does subscribe to That but again, it's like the only women in the story with any narrative agency is Selma Hayek in theory, very briefly, although she is, I was shocked that I was like, we gave her this unbelievable setup where she is like hotter than anyone's

ever been in a movie before or since. And then she just turns to goo in like a second. It just felt like she was set up to be so powerful. And it just feels like that's well, that shows how the movie feels about her. And we people of the future know she is like an unbelievable actress and should have. And but even the way her character is set up, you expect her to be she's like the queen she's powerful right then she's like one like bop on the head from the Phantom of the Opera chandelier like it was just so how does that even kill her like it's not even clear why she dies from a chandelier falling on her no she just melts into goo and it's

crazy because like Robert Rodriguez is capable of giving her more to do. Desperado was a feast of Selma Hayek. Like we got to see all of her acting chops in that movie and like different nuances to her because she's like you know kind of on the side of the villain but not really whatever. But like we get to see more of Selma Hayek in another Robert Rodriguez movie. So the fact that she's so severely underutilized in something where her introduction is so interesting is ridiculous to me. Yeah.

Right, it seems like she's being set up to be like the big bad. Yeah, yeah. And there's a part where she has like cornered Seth and she's like, I'm gonna make you my little servant, my little lap dog, blah, blah, blah. And I thought that that was, like that would have been such a cool thing

where if for, if not Seth, some character, she had like taken prisoner and I don't know, maybe if it happens to sex machine or something, but like that would let her be a character for longer that would also heighten the stakes of the whole situation but instead it's like you're gonna be my slave welcome to slavery she says to Seth and then he says no thanks I already had a wife. God. It's like wow. The fact wife That's how she's vaporized into goo you're just like It's and then I want to speak to

how This role affected her career. Yes in the years after this She speaks to being very heavily typecast in movies upon the release of this movie. She was sent like countless roles for stripper characters. And of course, not that there's anything inherently wrong with a stripper role, but to be typecast as that and not seen for anything else or not considered

for any other type of role that's a different story. She also speaks to just more about you know being limited in the roles that she was offered. I'm pulling from an interview with GQ that she did I think last year or pretty recently. She says quote, I was typecast for a long time. My entire life I wanted to do comedy and people wouldn't give me comedies. I couldn't land a role until I met Adam Sandler

who put me in a comedy, parentheses 2010s grownups. Okay, feminist masterpiece. But I was in my forties. They said, you're sexy, so you're not allowed to have a sense of humor. Not only are you not allowed to have a sense of humor. Not only are you not allowed to be smart, but you were not allowed to be funny in the 90s."

And she's speaking specifically about the role she played in From Dusk Till Dawn, leading to being typecast for many, many years after this. And then apparently she wanted to do comedies this whole time. And then Adam Sandler saw the comedic potential in her. Hey, I mean, and she has I mean, thankfully, I mean, I hate that it took so long if that's what she wanted to do, because she has been in a lot of comedies in the last 10 years, it seems

like if that's what she wanted to do, she's finally has the sort of freedom to do so but But like, that's so sad because she does she gives an amazing performance in this movie and it feels like she's punished for it. Yeah, I also was I was curious about the Vanessa your thoughts on like the lore behind this movie because we about I think almost 10 years ago now, Robert Rodriguez did two seasons of a serialized TV show based on the world from dusk till dawn that I think more intentionally builds out the lore of the vampires

and really roots it in Mexican and Aztec mythology, which this movie does not really seem to be doing. It kind of seems like Tarantino, Tarantino going his way around it as a horror expert. How does the like vampire lore feel to you? Well, on one end, I like that when they went with vampires, even though they didn't like look like your typical vampires, they had like the vampire rules to follow,

because as an audience, it's such an easy shorthand for us to be like, oh, we know exactly what they have to do, we know exactly what vampire rules are, steak, garlic, all that good shit. It's a really easy way for the audience to be like, I know what's happening. I enjoy mixing it into Aztec culture, enjoy the mixing it into like Aztec culture because I think when it comes to like things like Aztec or Mayan culture there's so little that like the main

public knows about that you can like weave something like that into it and also like both of them have pretty bloody pasts with like human sacrifice and things like that so it's like not that far of a stretch for an audience to be like okay maybe vampirism. Although, when it's Robert Rodriguez handling it, I like it more than the idea of Tarantino using it as shorthand. Because Robert Rodriguez handling it,

that's just a guy who already likes Mexican culture and enjoys extrapolating on that kind of lore. When it's Tarantino handling it, he's just a dipshit. And so it feels very different. Right. Yeah, I was sort of curious about that because I feel like there are tropes present in the movie that seems like is sort of course corrected in the series, which I don't think any of us have seen, but just based on like interviews Rodriguez did around,

like, how did you want to reimagine the lore to work for the TV show? But like you're saying, Vanessa, it's not like you would necessarily trust Tarantino to handle lore that exists out of Hollywood. That seems to be like sort of where he and deal with lore. I don't know. It's interesting. Because you do have the trope of the like kind of ancient burial ground trope that we've talked about in other horror movies, that is, we've

most often seen applied to indigenous American tribes. And I mean, how it is usually a house is built on a native burial ground and then things happen to white people that are scary and that's like kind of what happens in this movie also but there's more going on than there is in your average horror movie there's more thoughtfulness there's I don't know it almost feels like Tarantino was like, what's an interesting little button I can put on the end of this without giving it any kind of thought about the implications or anything like that. Didn't need it.

No, no you don't. Robert Rodriguez has spoken about the lack of positive representation of Latinx characters in Hollywood, how he has made a concerted effort to change that, but it also feels to me like there are stereotypes present of Latinx people perpetuated in this movie. The various Cheech Marin characters, for example, various Cheech Marin characters, for example, the way that Selma Hayek is heavily sexualized, the way that Latina actresses often are in movies. Like it struck me that there are stereotypes present

and you can, I'm sure chalk those up to Tarantino's writing. But I was just curious about like, is it just like the 1996 of it all? Was Robert Rodriguez not in a position to be able to make changes or, you know? So when I say this, I wanna clarify that I am not a monolith for an entire people.

I have my own personal opinion on this and this is not like the opinion of every Latin American person, but this is just an observation that I've made made a lot of the times when representation doesn't exist you take the little scraps of it that does and you I don't want to say explain away, but you kind of like deal with the Stereotypes that go along with it because you're like well at least that exists because like growing up in a Latin American family

we like things like Speedy Gonzales and Nacho Libre and things that were like along with it, because you're like, well, at least it exists. Because growing up in a Latin American family, we like things like Speedy Gonzales and Nacho Libre, and things that were quote unquote, maybe not necessarily the most PC thing, but it was like, but nothing else exists. Nothing else exists where we were there in the first place. And it's a lot like almost like queer representation, too. We're like the only early representations we had were like the very like fruity, highly effeminate, like over the top characters,

but it's like, but that's all we had. Right, the queer coded villains and such. Yes. And I think with a lot of like early Latin characters, we would take what we can get. And a lot of those were characters that now are deemed more politically incorrect Yeah, I we were just talking about that on a recent matriarch episode on 16 candles regarding the long duck dong character and how There were certain viewers of the movie who were like, including the actor who played that character,

admitting to not really realizing how racist of a portrayal that character was because there was so little other representation of Asian characters in mainstream Hollywood cinema. I mean, like tropes beget tropes beget tropes, right? So it's like a cyclical thing that exists until the cycle is broken, which it only recently started to be broken

Well in Hollywood and I think that I mean I guess because I I noticed the tropes you're talking about as well, Caitlin I feel like I mean even if you're talking about as well, Caitlin, I feel like, I mean, even if we're talking about this moment in movies and general power dynamics, Tarantino definitely has the power over Rodriguez as a filmmaker at point where Pulp Fiction was so huge. This is like his, I would be really curious how their collaborations operated at this time. And like, did Rodriguez give a lot of like creative input? Was he like it seems like there is collaboration going on, but I'm kind of unclear on what it is. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like I trust Rodriguez. And like you're saying, Vanessa, we know that as time goes on,

he prioritizes this more and more in his work as he becomes more powerful. But I just wonder if, yeah, if there was to some extent negotiations or compromises that had to be made to even have the movie made the way it was. I don't know. I mean, I think that the thing that really stood out to me in particular, I mean, just because of what we look for on our show is how Latin women are treated in particular in this movie where I mean, the only two women we get to even know with names are Salma Hayek's character, who is heavily objectified and then immediately turns to go after of, I mean, and I do love a bonk on the head kill. It always makes me laugh, but be serious. And then Gloria, whose death is far more brutal. And I don't know. I mean, the only thing that I can say for it is I'm glad that it happened off screen. Because I think that there are some movies that would not do that. But no, they'd indulge in it. Yeah. And so it's like, outside of that, though, like, what can we even say? Because she, you know, and all the women in the story, sort of

serve for a good period of time to characterize how Richie and Seth's values are different. Because Seth theoretically would not assault and kill a woman unless he absolutely had to. And Richie thinks it's fun. And so it's like, I don't know, like, obviously, you know, they're set dressing their objects, even when they are characters. And I would even apply that to, to Kate to some extent for a good portion of the movie. But I don't know. I mean, I, it's tricky because I think you're totally, you're totally right. Vanessa is like, it's almost a 30 year old movie. Like there was not a lot of representation at the time. And it's not as if Rodriguez went on to like show active contempt for Latin characters in his work.

Like it only continued to grow from there, but yeah. And this is not a knock on Rodriguez or how the movie handled it, but in general, Latin American media growing up, not great about women. A lot of the women I saw on TV, especially in like comedy contexts, were like a guy dressed as a baby and a girl in a bikini.

And that stretched out to like the weather or news reporting where like the standards for what a woman looked like on TV was so different for what, like a man can be the ugliest, shlubbiest thing, but a girl had to have a six pack and like show it off in order to even exist on network and television. It was, it was ridiculous. God, the patriarchy. So depressing. I, I'm glad Selma High, I mean, we're covering, it's a big Selma High week on the pod because we're recording our episode on Frida later this week.

Oh my God. Yeah, we're excited. But yeah, I mean, it's fascinating finding Selma Hayek at this point in her career too, where she's just breaking through in American movies and just knowing watching now like how unbelievably talented and also how comparatively underused she is. It's just a lot. But like you're saying, Vanessa,

like Rodriguez eventually acknowledges that she's like the most talented person in the world by giving her a better role. And but the fact that she had to fight for it that hard just feels very, um, I want to say of the time, but I know that it's still a very real problem now. Yeah. Should we get into Kate and Scott? The kids? Yeah, let's do it. The spy kids?

They kind of are proto spy kids, you could say. I feel as though they're both a bit underwritten. Yes. And what I was noticing about Kate is that I was clocking like okay how often does she have to be saved by a man versus does she ever save a man when the you know vampires unleash and it seems a pretty even split. Yeah. As far as she is saved. But then there's that big moment toward the end

when Sex Machine is a dog vampire, question mark, and he's about to kill Seth. But she like pulls up with her crossbow and she's like, I got this. And kills Sex Machine once and for all, saving Seth. And I know that like 10 years ago, people would be like, isn't that a Mary Sue? And you're like, well, look at the, you know, movies, this movie is referencing,

I'm just not worried about it. I like that she's using a scary weapon, like, please. And look at the other characters who are men, such as Jacob and Scott. How the fuck does he know how to use a... Well Scott only has a water gun. I actually do believe he has the license to wield that. But Jacob has a shotgun that he's suddenly using expertly even though he's a pastor. You've got Seth who, you know, he's a, you know, professional bank robber, so he might know weapons and tools more. But he also like has this, I don't even know what that thing is. It sounds like a chainsaw, but it looks like a giant drill thing that he sticks a wooden stake into. And it's like, how does he know how to use that? So yeah, like every character just suddenly becomes this like badass action movie

hero. And you're like, yep, fine. Yeah. I appreciate the Mary Sue conversation, but sometimes I feel like, well, do we also ask when men randomly know how to use things? And yeah, for sure. I like, it's weird because like you can criticize Mary Sue characters, but you can also criticize the criticism of Mary Sue characters because like that there's a double standard there. We've come we've come a long way. Who's to say? Yeah, I generally liked Kate's character. I just felt like there were certain I Like we've talked about before, I don't think that the constant threat of sexual violence over her needed to be there to maintain the stakes.

Like that felt just kind of clearly exploitative and just there because it could be there. But, you know, I just felt like it just removed agency from her. Thankfully, she does get to do stuff in the back half of the movie. But I also felt like, I don't know, this is like a smaller point. But the fact that we're told that Jacob is having a crisis of faith because he just lost his wife, his wife. Also, the things that are hanging in the balance for Jacob for a while is the death of one woman and the threat of sexual violence over another,

which is love those stinks for him. But the fact that like the grief over his wife only narratively impacts Jacob. We never get any insight to how it's affecting the kids, which felt weird and felt like just a very clear intuitive opportunity to give more insight into both Kate and Scott, like how are they dealing with this loss?

How did they feel about it? But really the only thing we get, the most we get with Kate in the first half of the movie is that conversation she has with Kate in the first half of the movie is that conversation she has with Jacob at the diner where she is basically just asking Jacob questions about himself and asking questions about his crisis of faith. He doesn't ask her anything about how she is doing with the loss of her parent. The movie doesn't really have any interest in how that loss affects anyone except Jacob because that advances the plot

in the third act with George Clooney and their weird, you know, like God thing. So I found that to be frustrating. Yes. And then there's Scott. Scott has such an interesting dynamic built in too, where it's like, oh, Scott's adopted and and like what relationship did he have with his mom and like what relationship does he have with Kate and Where does he like feel like he fits into this world and he's just kind of a background character the entire time It's so frustrating and then he's just like Unceremoniously killed off at the very end which I found like it just it Yeah, again, there were so many opportunities with Scott that like that was one of the few things I found like, it just, it, yeah. Again, there were so many opportunities with Scott, that like, that was one of the few things I was like interested in possibly seeing explored

by this movie, not that you would trust Tarantino to do it, but like the fact that, you know, the, the Robber brothers are, you know, being very racist towards Scott. They're being very hateful towards him. And Jacob and Scott are both sort of holding their ground and are like, fuck you. Like, we're a family. This is what this is.

And I mean, as complicated as we don't know very much about the adoption, we don't know very much about Scott at all. And it's not like it's the job of this movie to harp on it. Like, they're a family. That's it. But I just sort of, the fact that that is, I appreciated that that was very deliberately set up,

but then the fact that we go on to learn nothing about Scott when there's so much about him that is interesting. And with Kate, like they've just lost their mom, but like for whatever reason, it's not supposed to be important. And like Scott, I feel like sort of retreats into the background of the movie more and more as it goes on where it's clear that like, you know, it's like, it's like pretty clearly telegraphed that Kate is going to be our final girl. And once that becomes clear, if like

Scott becomes less and less important, which sucks because he's a very interesting character. And yeah, by the time he's sort of just like, torn to shreds by the end, it just felt very anticlimactic. And like, we could have really been set up to like, even if we do have to lose him in the rules of this movie, I feel like if we, obviously, if we got to know him better, it would have had more impact, but I felt like it sort of was a little hollow in the way that it was presented.

Right, and you barely see the two siblings interacting and you don't really get a sense of their relationship either, which seems strange. It just, yeah, it feels like the writing just thinks as most of these characters as an afterthought. And it's also just curious to me why we would like open on the, you know, bank robber brothers since they're not the people we're necessarily rooting for. Aren't we rooting for Jacob and his family

as this sort of like, protagonist-ic central force of the movie? Like, why wouldn't we open on them? And maybe this is just like, it's very possible that this movie was not designed for us to think this hard about it. But like, I was curious by the end, I was like, I don't know,

like, Kate, you just would imagine her whole family is dead. Why does she display more loyalty and interest in her kidnapper than the fact that her whole family is dead? Like it just felt it worked as a final girl beat because this is like a beat that we're very used to seeing. But like she has, and I did at least again, it's like peanuts, but like, I didn't appreciate that they're not like and now she and Seth are gonna see what happens in this like awesome, you know, I'm glad that that happened. I don't think it was necessary for his character to have to draw the boundary that felt like a weird thing where he's like,

babe, babe. Why does she even ask to go with him? I don't I mean, I guess it's like, well, I mean, you know, as opposed to having nobody in the world, I can understand why that would be positioned. But it's just like, so emotionless next to like the amount of loss she's experienced. And by the end, I feel like she's almost acting more familiar and like more in tune with Seth than she did with her own family. I don't know. Yes.

Yeah, like where did that come from? You don't know this man and he's only presented danger to you. And he abducted you. Yeah. Yeah. It was very silly that they'd even imply that Kate would wanna go with him at that point instead of like

I don't know any ideas about self-preservation It just I feel like yeah the end beat like really hit home how under thought her entire Character was even though she did have like Increasing agency she did get the like she was a great fighter She lives till the end she survives, but so much of it just like doesn't scan you think about it too hard Yeah worth mentioning too that not only is she under this like looming threat of sexual violence from Richie But there's also that scene where the first Cheech Marin character comes into the motor home because he's like border patrol investigating what's going on

inside. He opens the bathroom when granted she's like pretending to use the bathroom, but she also like has her pants down and she's sitting on the toilet and he's leering at her for like a long time, a long time. and she's like, close the fucking door dude. And then he continues leering at her as he very slowly closes the door. So every time she turns around, there's some predatory man leering at her and hallucinating about her.

And I mean, it's tricky because it's not like this is unrealistic. You know, in the real world, women are regularly under the threat of sexual violence from men because of rape culture. But again, if you're going to include that in the movie, say something about it or condemn it or something. But again, it's usually just there in this movie as like a weird jokey thing that adds nothing to the story. Yeah. But that's it. I mean, I feel like I'm like being so but it's like I really did, especially the back half once the vampire stuff

kicks in, I really do enjoy this movie. I like that the that the story sort of evolves to include more like I guess, non Tarantino lore that it grows towards something that's always sort of encouraging to just know when you're you know, doing dispatches from the future that you know, and then it's tricky because it's like, it's such a flawed movie. I really, I don't know. I just, the first half is so, was such a bummer to me. And then I've never felt so surprised to be in a good mood by the time the movie ended because I was just like so not into the first half. Right. Yeah. Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie?

My mind just keeps going back to that disco ball. So good, it's so good. It's such a good indicator of like the things that does work about this movie. When it thinks about like, oh, what are some like upgraded, new for the 1996 ways to eliminate a vampire. It's so fun in that aspect and such a welcome relief after the first half of the movie being like, what woman will succumb to sexual violence? Getting something as doofy as reciprocating steak is such a breath of fresh air.

Yeah. The only other thing I had was just quickly referencing Frost as a character who's also a Vietnam veteran, which the movie goes way out of its way to make note of the PTSD he's experiencing as a Vietnam veteran, which I know is also a, I don't know, a reference to other movies and other genres and all this stuff. Um,

but because he's the only, uh, black character in the movie just felt worth kind of singling out and that, that he kind of like turns into like a stranger things, vagina monster by the end of the movie. Yeah. He fully does turn into like Mr. Pussy Mouth and like, well, I just wish I knew him a little better. Oh I was reading that is like he has bat face. Sure. Well also like some of the vampires look human-ish but then they just have like distorted features like vampire features on their face and then other ones are like full demons with like full demon bodies and I'm like, ooh, who are these vampires and what's up with them?

The last thing I had, and I'm curious what the rest of you think about this, but as soon as they get to Mexico, this movie does something that a lot of movies do, which is put a yellow filter on the thing. This is something that I don't think has come up on the show a lot, but it has been discussed heavily where movies with scenes that are set in the global South

tend to put this yellow filter over the movie to other these places and to suggest that these places are hot and dirty and uncivilized and to suggest that, you know, these places are hot and dirty and uncivilized and things like that. You could argue that them entering Mexico and driving to the bar coincides with dusk from the titular from dusk till dawn. And maybe that's why there's this yellow hue because the sun is setting. Maybe that's why there's this yellow hue because the sun is setting. But because there's such a history of movies doing this, I was just... It was something I noticed.

Well, and the fact that that's like when the magical elements enter the story, I feel like it is implied that Mexico is... Whatever, there's less law. It's like, it's just like implied that it's, you know, just like a lot of tropes that we see all of the time of like once you cross the border, you're home free. You can do anything you want. And then it's like visually presented in this very particular way as well. And then the, the survivors of the whole ordeal are two white characters.

Like it, you know, all the people of color perish by the end. They're all goo. Goo. Everyone's goo. Just a household goo. I'm like, does the, I was kind of curious. I'm like, does the, did each wizard like reset every night? That was sort of the feeling I was getting.

Oh yeah. I sort of wondered if just like the goo rises when dusk falls again and they just sort of do it all. Like it's like Groundhog Day of vampire goo. Cause you're like, surely this would have happened sooner. Yeah. I feel like every night they just kill whoever, whatever patrons have come into the bar. But I guess. It would make me feel better to know that, I guess. I think it's implied that this is the first time

there's goo because this is the first time that any vampires are dying. Normally, the vampires are killing the patrons, sucking their blood, and then discarding their bodies somewhere. So this is like the first goo incident because this is the first time that humans fight back. Curiouser.

This is my headcanon. I don't know if this is true or not. Yeah, it's like curious or and curious or. I guess I just like, in my mind, I guess when the movie ended, I was like, oh, so this is just gonna happen again tomorrow. But maybe that's not true. Well, are there any vampires left?

No. Yeah, so. No, but I just, I sort of thought when dusk fell, they rose from the goo. Maybe I just don't know enough about vampires. Oh, I see. I thought the goo just sort of like re-persons. No, I think they're permanently goo. I think they're goo forever.

Damn. Tough break. Well, about that Bactel test. Oh, boy. The movie doesn't pass. Any people of marginalized genders do not speak to each other. I don't think. And that's the end of that. Yeah, no, I don't think so. But our nipple scale, where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens.

It's like a 0.5 for me. It's not high at all based on everything we discussed. No need to really rehash it all. I think I'll give it a half nipple and it will go to the torso guitar or the dick gun. The dick gun was fun. My two favorite props. My head cannon is that there is a like hustler style B plot going on inside of the titty

twister that we are just not privy to and that the dancers at this club do have something cooking. But based on what we have, yeah, I guess I guess I'll go one because I like Robert, because I just, but in terms of yeah, intersexual feminism, I mean, there's there's really not much to be had. The only character that we see characterized even remotely, and as we've discussed, not particularly well, is like a young Christian white girl who goes on to become the final girl outside of that there's just no interest in showing women doing things at all. showing women doing things at all. And even the one character who does get to do things spends the entire first half of the movie threatened by sexual violence and really made to feel afraid

in a way that like isn't necessary plot wise. Yeah, Tarantino wrote it. We know it just like, we know both of these directors are capable of much more. And I feel like that's part of why I'm rating on a harsher curve. And the fact that this even remotely hindered some high expir for even one second makes it all the more difficult. Anyways, I love spy kids.

Yeah. And I love Once Upon a Time in Mexico and I love machete. And I love Once Upon a Time in Mexico, and I love Machete. And this movie does get one nipple from me, and I will give it to Salma Hayek because she deserves it and she should be in as many middling Adam Sandler comedies as she chooses. Vanessa.

Vanessa, how about you? I give it one nipple and that is because both Selma Hayek and Juliet Lewis are doing so much more than is being asked of them. They're doing so much more than the script calls for and giving life to characters that would otherwise just simply exist to further the plot of Men. So for these two beautiful flowers growing amongst the concrete, I give one nipple. Incredible. Five-timer guest, Vanessa, thank you so much for coming back.

I had such a good time. Oh my gosh, we were so excited to talk about this movie with you. And again, come back anytime Whatever feels right. Just let us know the movie. We're ready. I would love to Where can people follow you on social media? Check out your work, etc You can find me under any SS Guerrero on Twitter and SNES Guerrero on everything else I show run and produce a show called 10 Minute Power Hour

that is on the Grumps every Monday at nine o'clock. Please watch that. It pays for my life. And gosh, I think that's all I really have coming up right now. I feel like there are other things I'm forgetting at the moment, but they'll come to me eventually. Oh yeah. And you can follow us on Instagram at Bechtelcast, on our Patreon aka matrion at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast where you get two bonus episodes every month centering around a genius theme that Jamie and I cook up and then deliver on and that's $5 a month. And this month for spooky season, we are doing Pearl and the Exorcist. So fucking ready possessed by the devil or ego.

And it just goes on from there. And you can get our merch at tbubble.com slash the Bechtel Cast for all of your merchandising needs. And with that, let's get into our camper that is now empty of our entire family and ride off into the distance to an uncertain future. What do you say? Let's do it. Bye.

Bye bye. Bye. Bye! Bye-bye! Bye! The Bechtel Cast is a production of iHeart Media, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan, with vocals by Catherine Voskrasensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus. And a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree slash Bechtelcast. Hey everybody, the time has finally come.

This week, starting October 7th through October 11th, that's Monday through Friday everybody, we are revealing the iconic 400. Yes, Bo and Yang and I famously missed our 400th episode here on Lost Culture East Thust but we are ready to reveal the iconic 400 who is on the list does it matter no will it be fun yeah there might even be a surprise or two in there so listen carefully listen to Lost Culture East Thust on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jacquees Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke.

Hey, it's Mike and Ian. We're the hosts of How to Do Everything from NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Each week we take your questions and find someone much smarter than us to answer them. Questions like how do you survive the Bermuda Triangle? How do you find a date inside the Bermuda Triangle? We can't help you, but we will find someone who can. Listen to the How to Do Everything podcast on iHeartRadio. I'm Maria Konnikova. And I'm Nate Silver.

And our new podcast, Risky Business, is a show about making better decisions. We're both journalists who moonlight as poker players, and that's the lens we're going to use to approach this entire show. We're going to be discussing everything from high stakes poker to personal questions. Like whether I should call a plumber or fix my shower myself. And of course, we'll be talking about the election too. Listen on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, 1974.

George Foreman was champion of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. Story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only of the world. Ali was smart and he was handsome. Story behind the Rumble in the Jungle is like a Hollywood movie. But that is only half the story. There's also James Brown, Bill Withers, B.B. King, Miriam Makeba. All the biggest black artists on the planet.

Together in Africa. It was a big deal. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.