The Bechdel Cast - Ginger Snaps with Olivia Woodward

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

This week, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Olivia Woodward get their werewolf periods and discuss Ginger Snaps! Follow Olivia on Instagram at @livnative93 Made To Be Monsters: ‘Ginger Snaps’atranslog.medium.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin' vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Jamie. Kailin. I just got the curse. What's that? I'm bleeding.

I just got my period. Oh, Lord. It's the curse. I'm your little sister in the big old wig. I'm pissed. I'm pissed. I'm pissed. I had to like hide my, I know, Caitlin, no. Yeah, but don't worry.

It's not contagious though. This is audio media, but I just, all my hairs in my face, I'm like, this sucks. This sucks. How could you do this to me? That was a great reenactment, I think. Thank you so much. We're naturals.

We're naturals. We're naturals at this. Oh my gosh. Well anyway, this is the Bechdel cast and my name is Caitlin Tarante. My name is Jamie Loftus and I have a tail. And this is our podcast where we talk about your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point for discussion, but Caitlin, what the hell is that? Oh my gosh, it's when... What in the ginger snaps is that?

I sort of was like, why is this movie called that? But in a way, Ginger snaps. She snaps. And it makes, it's actually kind of incredible. It's an all-timer title. It's actually really a good title. It all makes sense. But what is the Bechdel Test?

It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist, Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test as it was co-conceived of with Alison Bechdel and her friend Liz Wallace. And it has many versions. Ours is this, do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is there conversation about something other than a man? And we like it when it's a narratively substantial conversation. So for example,

I just got my period and it's a horrible curse. Oh, okay. Let's kill this dog. Okay. Like those are all narratively consequential in this world. No need to worry about the Bechtel test in this movie. All right. That's the jumping off point. But there's so much more to talk about today. So I want to just jump right into it. But this is again, I think we're just kind of on an all-timer streak recently of covering movies that we've

been getting requests for for over half a decade. And we've just been waiting for the right moment for the right guest. And today we are covering ginger snaps with an amazing returning guest. That's absolutely right. She is the cultural education coordinator for Texas Native Health. She's a citizen of the Cato Nation, as well as a horror connoisseur. And you know her from our episode on smoke signals.

It's Olivia Woodward. Hello, now we know you. Welcome back. Thank you. What is your poster? I feel like the horror fans have the best bedroom walls. You know, it we know it. Welcome back. Thank you. What is your poster? I feel like horror fans have the best bedroom walls. You know what's so funny? This is not my bedroom.

Me and my partner are so progressive. We have separate bedrooms and the recording stuff is in his area of the house. Incredible. So this is his room. That is a poster. It's a metal poster. If it's him, we don't care.

Okay. Unimportant. We're not him, we don't care. Okay. Unimportant. We're not in the business of discussing walls. You know, that's so amazing. That is truly my dream. And because of like, I don't know, cis hetero programming, I didn't even know. I'd never even considered that until my friends got married. And they're like, yeah, of course we have our own rooms so that we still love each other. You're like, yeah, honestly, it kind of makes me love him more having my own space. Yeah, it's really wonderful. I'm also a crazy sleeper.

I don't keep a good sleep schedule. I always joke I'm a rotisserie chicken in bed because I just kind of like move around throughout my sleep. I wake up so hungry because I think I'm burning calories soerie chicken in bed because I just kind of like move around throughout my sleep. I wake up Hungry because I think I'm burning calories so much through my sleep. So anyway, it really helps our relationship Honestly, I think it makes us closer that wrong being physically distant. Yeah for sure people need distance people need boundaries and their own space I've been saying for years that if I ever end up with a Partner which we'll see but if that were I ever end up with a partner, which we'll see, but if that were to ever happen, I would want separate apartments. And I know that

like, who can afford that, but also like, But if you can, I mean, that's yeah. Yeah, I do. I mean, it's like, it's of course, it's like, depends on how you can make this space work. But it's like, I like the idea of when you live with someone, it is still a choice to be physically together. Like it is not necessarily the compulsory thing to do. I love that. Thank you. Wow.

Wow. And now, ginger stamps. Holy cow, what a damn movie. Olivia, thank you for being our guest. I know that we've been meaning to do this for a while. It's the perfect time of year. Absolutely. So tell us about your history with this movie.

Yeah, this is a movie I really enjoy. It's definitely near and dear to my heart. As far as horror movie goes, it's definitely one of my top five. I don't know if y'all know this. This is a trilogy. This is the first of three. There's Ginger Snaps. Ginger Snaps Unleashed is the sequel, which takes place right after the first one, like

the next day, I think. And then there's a third one. It's a prequel called Ginger Snaps Back. And that one is set 200 years in the past, in like the 1800s. It's the same actresses playing sisters again. And like they're ancestors, I'm assuming. And rather than being set in like a Canadian suburb, it's set at a fort and they're being like hunted by a wolf pack.

And I bring this up, I go into detail because back in what 2010, 2011, I was being left home alone a lot. And the third one, the prequel, was being shown on some cable channel all the time. So I kind of got weirdly obsessed with the third one for years, not knowing there were two more before it. And I was actually talking to my sister about this the other day, and I thought she told me about the first one.

She says I told her about the first one so at some point because she's also a horror connoisseur this is a huge thing we bond over either way at some point in high school I rented it from red box and loved it and show it to all of my friends there aren't a ton of good werewolf movies because you know there's horror and then there's like all the sub genres, right? And there's creature feature, but separately specifically werewolf. And this is not my most like favorite werewolf design per se.

There are definitely other movies with scarier werewolves, but the story itself is so unique and strange and different from other werewolf movies. And I come back to it every couple of years. And then separately too, a few years ago, I decided to start screenwriting. And part of that journey was joining a mentorship.

And so it was an online one with an organization called BIPOC TV slash Film. And they pair you with it turns out it was a Canadian organization. I don't think I was supposed to apply, but whatever. They pair you with a mentor and you get like online coffee with them. And I got paired with Karen Walton who wrote this movie. It was such a crazy coincidence. I did not know that. That's amazing. It was so hard not to fan girl over her her. She's done some really cool work since Ginger Snaps.

And she gave me like really great advice and added me to a Facebook group that she runs for up and coming screenwriters. One day someone put in like a post up asking about their favorite film podcast And several people commented the Bechtel cast. And I was like, this sounds right up my alley. And look at look at we're about now. No, look at you now. You're here with us. Wait, that's so I love that. Ginger snaps in a very roundabout way brought you to the ginger snaps episode of this show. That's so cool. It's so cool. I would have never guessed it, you know? So I'm very ginger snaps has really done a lot for me, apparently.

Oh, yeah, true. So very excited to be here. Very excited to talk about it. And not to brag, but you, to some degree, have continued your screenwriting journey in a certain class, taught by a certain someone who has a certain master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University that I would never ever mention. And I gotta just say the screenwriting classes are amazing and if y'all haven't picked it up,

they're taught by Caitlin. She's a fantastic teacher and I will continue to take her classes whenever I can. Oh my gosh, thanks, Soyoum. Everyone should take her classes if you want to be a screenwriter. Yeah, exactly. I didn't know you had a master's degree. Oh, well, the thing is I don't ever talk about it. I never mention it.

Very humble, very humble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, so anyway, this episode is just a commercial for my screenwriting classes. Yeah. Bye. Anyway, this episode is just a commercial for my screenwriting classes. Bye. I love the, what a wonderful full circle history you have with this movie.

It's so cool. It's always just like so lovely to hear when people are actively, like successful people are actively involved in mentoring and building community and stuff like that. Karen Walton, just based on what I've read about her, just seems great. I'm glad to know that she also is great. And it's actually a cool person. That's awesome.

Yeah, I still have her email and every once in a while I reach out and she's pretty good at getting back. And she's just a very, very cool person. Also through her, I learned some really major differences between the film industry in Canada versus the US. Good and bad. But the way people get started with screenwriting in Canada is fairly different than here in the United States. I feel like that's another day, though. That's like a 40 minute rant for me.

Well, awesome. Jamie, what's your history with Ginger Snaps? I had never seen this movie before. I wish I had. I wish that this movie had found me at the exact right time. But I don't know, I was like, I had an interesting experience watching this movie where I watched it. I mean, this is my first time watching it. I like horror. I'm very into horror. I've never really taken to werewolf movies specifically, which might've been just why I never happened to see this because I just, I'm not a werewolf girly.

I don't know what to say. But the first time I watched this movie, I like sat with it for a day and I was like, whoa. Like I don't, I almost like didn't know what to make of it cause there's so much going on. I was like, did I like that? I don't like what it was like, it was a slow burn for me. I don't know, it was weird.

And then I went back to rewatch it the second time to prepare. And by the end I was like, no, this is like the coolest movie. It's like, it's, I mean, it has its faults. It has its tricky points, which we'll talk about, but I, yeah, it was a movie that I really had to kind of sit with.

And once I watched it again, like a full two days later, I was like, no, this fucking rules. I can't wait to talk about this. I'm really excited to hear everyone because it is like a movie that really begs to be talked about with other people. And so I am really excited to talk about it. I feel like there's probably points of view I haven't considered. I really enjoyed reading queer and trans writers' views

on this movie because you know, like I think on my first view I was like, it's all about defining womanhood by periods, but then reading other people's opinions on it, you're like, okay, this movie is like complex in a way that maybe it wasn't even intending to be, but has like prompted all of this discussion. And that's a special kind of movie. I'm excited to talk about it. Caitlin, had you seen this movie before? I had once before. It was during the great Caitlin movie watching binge of 2004.

I think it was my friend who I mentioned recently on the Jawbreaker episode who had introduced me. She was a big horror buff. So she showed me a bunch of horror movies that I probably wouldn't have seen otherwise. And I believe one of them was Ginger Snaps. I think that's how I came to see this movie and I thought it was cool in the sense that it was a version of the werewolf story

unlike anything I had seen but I'm similarly not much of a werewolf person I far Vampires not that it's a competition but I I prefer vampires. Not that it's a competition, but. I was like, I don't know if that's basic, but I do like zombies and vampires. And most of all, I love a scary ghost. And I love the, whatever the Babadook is. I like that.

Yeah, the Babadook is its own genre. Yeah, it's more like a hat based villain. I love a jigsaw villain. I love a jigsaw villain. I love a jigsaw. I love a little. Oh, I do. Yeah, a haunted doll. That's definitely in my top four. Right, right, right.

Every horror fan in the world wants to murder me right now. I'm like, huh, there's doll movie. There's scary. There's Boba Duk movie. Yes, there's doll movie, there's scary, there's- There's Babadook movie? Yes, there's Babadook genre, doll genre. I think vampires, but I almost have never like scared by a vampire movie for like horror that actually scares me. The thing that I gravitate toward the most,

I think is like a cult type stuff or like Satan worship like and I'm sorry to invoke a movie made by a horrible person but like Rosemary's Baby is oh I thought you were to say I'm sorry to invoke Bielsa Bob okay never mind never we're making our own horror movie right Never mind. We're making our own horror movie right now. Yeah, no, I'm with you there. I also was realizing as I was watching, I'm like, why have I been avoiding, I've been avoiding werewolves recently.

And I know the reason is because my friend was getting really into it. There's a very popular werewolf erotica genre that my friend sent a recommendation to me and I'm down to try anything, you know, I was like, whatever. I've read the occasional erotica. Bragg. It's a very sophisticated way to experience porn is like, I'm reading a book. As I was reading intellectual.

I mean, it's a fun way to whack off. But I just really did. I was not vibing with the werewolf genre. It was actually quite freaking me out due to the whole dog of it all. So I did. I'm going to call it that. If you love this genre, I'm not shaming you at all. It wasn't for me. I read a book called the tyrant Alphas rejected mate, which is so many words. Oh my gosh.

You brought this up before. I really struggled with the tyrant Alphas rejected mate. It took me months to finish. I didn't get horny one time, but I was just like really trying to finish it. And so I think uniquely this year I was like, I'm done with werewolves for a while. They're too horny. There's too much going on. This was recent?

This was this year, yeah. I read that book this year. And if you've read it and you, I mean, I understand. It's like, it's always weird when you're like experiencing erotica that is not for you, where you're like, I get it. I get it, I get it, but I'm not feeling anything. So anyways, that's why I was avoiding werewolves.

We can take this out of the show if we want. No, I think we should leave it. And I'm gonna add something to it really quick here, which is that when I was in the UK on the Shrek Tanik tour, I met up with a listener of the show, shout out to Deys. We went to Shrek's Adventure together in London and they gave me a horny book, what are they called? Erotic novel.

Yeah, yeah. Erotic fiction. Mutt. Entitled, Get in My Swamp, colon, an ogre love story. Incredible. And I started reading it. I have to finish it. But I think maybe you would enjoy it a lot more than you enjoyed the werewolf erotica. I would wager so I would wager so I just didn't like when they're like, let's fuck his dogs.

I'm like, I just don't want to read about dogs walking. Anyways. Yeah, I think that's some people's issue or not issue about why there aren't a ton of werewolf fans out there. It's so close to bestiality, right? It like really toes the line, which I think is what makes it also kind of like interesting and fascinating. Also, to your credit, it is hard to find good werewolf movies. I had the opposite. Like two or three years ago, I was like sat down. I was like, I want to watch every werewolf movie ever. Right. Because one of my favorites is Ginger Snaps. And I do love an American werewolf in London and I spent like months and a lot. Unfortunately, they suffer from both not enough budget to dedicate to the werewolf

transformation and not enough budget to get good actors. You know what I mean? Like they can't even they can't really. A lot of them can't balance both. The only other like really good werewolf movie I would ever recommend. I mean, I'd recommend several. But the other big one aside from American werewolf and ginger snaps is one called Dog Soldiers, and that one's closer to action horror than American werewolf or Ginger Snaps. I feel like Ginger Snaps and American Werewolf are very layered and have a lot to say

about the topics that they're covering because they're very different topics, right? American Werewolf interprets werewolfism in a very different way than Ginger Snaps does. But Dog Soldiers is like good fun. It almost feels like watching like an action romp. There's just werewolves thrown in there and then you're in like the background. The backdrop is Scotland. But it's again, one of the few that had a good enough budget to like the werewolf transformation is cool. The werewolves are scary. Tilda Larkin Wait, I've seen this movie. Karly Larkin Yeah.

Tilda Larkin Now that I'm looking at the images of it. During my werewolf kick, it was the only one that stuck out to me. I was like, huh. This was pretty good. And I rewatched it recently just to make sure. My opinion was right, you know, because you watch something the first time, you get so enamored, and then you watch the second time, you're like, oh, no.

Uh, that one, Dog Soldiers, does take a really bizarre misogynistic turn at the end. And I feel like some scenes got edited out that maybe would have explained it. But aside from that, it's a fun werewolf movie, but it's a hard genre to, I think, pull off successfully. And then on a personal note, Twilight kind of ruined my life with werewolves, because everyone started associating werewolves and animalism with native people and the amount of questions I got and the amount of people. I feel like the type of racism I faced increased after the movies in particular.

The books release was hard enough and then the movies just took it over the edge. So I feel like werewolves has also just not gotten good PR in the last couple of years. So I totally get not being into werewolves or werewolf movies. It's a hard one. For sure. I want to recover Twilight. We absolutely should. We really should.

Because there's like there's so much we didn't talk about or even know to talk about the first time we talked about it. But yeah, I mean, there are just, werewolves in general, they're a tough sell. I think that's an excellent point to make too, is that the most recent popular adaptation of werewolf stories was done in an incredibly racist and harmful way.

And unless I'm missing something, there really hasn't been a popular piece of werewolf media since. I mean, I'm coming in so cold. I'm coming in at like werewolf bar mitzvah. Like that's where I'm at with werewolf media. Spooky, scary, boys becoming men, men becoming wolves. Yeah, and I was like,

well, it's not gonna get better than this. I like the werewolves in what we do in the shadows and that's kind of it I would say. Yeah. Anyway, take a quick break and then we'll come back and recap the movie. We're turning up the heat on the newest episode of All the Smoke. Vice President and Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris pulls up to the show to discuss her historic presidential run. Most people have ambition, they have aspirations, they have dreams, and they are willing to

work hard. And if we give people the opportunity to actually meet those goals. They jump for every time. Matt stack will be diving deep into the journey that brought her here her vision for the future and the real stories behind the headlines make sure you check out all the smoke with vice president Kamala Harris out now listen today on the black effect podcast network. I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, it's me Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the award-winning podcast On Purpose. I created this show to bring you conversations that inspire, motivate, and help you navigate life a little easier. Every guest brings something special, whether it's about relationships, mental health, or finding your purpose. And this week, I had the opportunity to interview Sean Mendez, a singer-songwriter known for his heartfelt lyrics and melodies.

Sean's music feels like an open diary, raw, relatable and real. Beyond the music, he's all about using his platform for good, advocating for mental health and the environment. He really comes down to the moment you're prepared to take responsibility for your life and for everything that goes wrong and for everything that goes right.

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way too much Trump. And you know what? I need a break, like a mental health break from the news, from the triggering headlines. And I kind of suspect some of you listening out there might need a break, too So my new podcast is gonna be just that a fun and loose space where I talk to my famous friends and people I admire about all the stuff that consumes us when we're not consumed by politics I did not really rebel in the 60s. I had no sex in the 70s

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Hey, I'm Gianna Predente. And I'm Jeme Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions.

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in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Flash, slam, another one gone. Bash, bam, another one gone. The cracker, the bat, and another one gone. The tip, but a cap, there's another one gone. And the best part? I make this show entirely by myself. Impressive, right? Me too, right?

Oh, OK, OK. Maybe I get a little bit of help from my sidekick, Tina the Raccoon. Every week on Historical Records, join me, Nimini, me-e-e-e-e! and Tina the Raccoon as we learn about the unsung heroes of the past

and turn their history into hip-hop. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeart Radioio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. And here is the recap, although first I will place a content warning for things like suicide, sexual assault, animal abuse, and graphic violence toward dogs. It really is kind of a you name it of trigger warnings. I will say before we start, just because I've got werewolf bar mitzvah on the brain, it

is kind of like relevant. The narrative of werewolf, like girls becoming women, women becoming wolves. That is kind of the theme of Ginger Snaps. That's sort of the log line. It's like a werewolf bar mitzvah more so. Wow. Wonderful observation. Thank you. Thank you. That's all. That will be all of my contributions for the day. Yeah, fine, fine. Okay, so we open on the town of Bailey Downs, Canada. Ever heard of it?

A place that is being terrorized by vicious attacks from some unknown animal that people are calling the Beast of Bailey Downs. We then meet two teen sisters who are like, goth, not aesthetically, but like attitude-wise in the sense that they're obsessed with death and they have a suicide pact since they've been kids. This is Bridget played by Emily Perkins and Ginger played by Catherine Isabel. Kat Kerlin It's so interesting because I feel like when we meet them, I interpreted them originally as at first glance as like goth in the hot topic sense. And then it's like you they you yes but also there's more going on. Right. Okay so at school Ginger and Bridget are in gym class playing field hockey and Bridget says a bunch of mean things about this popular girl Trina Sinclair. The most popular girl name of all time. Trina.

And she overhears Bridget talking shit about her and so she pushes Bridget down into the carcass of another dismembered dog that has been attacked by the Beast of Bailey Downs. And it really makes you wonder why there's just this dog carcass in the middle of a playing field at a school just out in the open, has not been cleaned up. And no one has an appropriate reaction to it. It doesn't feel like it. I've watched this movie so many times and every time I get to that part, I'm like, this just, you would smell it, right?

Like, yeah, for sure. I know it's Canada and cold, but it's not that cold. Like you would notice that before you face planted to it. Like that part never makes sense. Had to have been cut there, right? Cause I, I've rewatched that scene so many times. I'm like, I'm missing something. I'm missing something. How did no one see the, the open dog. I think it's just a goof. It works. Whatever. Ginger and Bridget form a plan to get back at Trina by making it seem like her dog has been attacked by the beast. Meanwhile, there's this boy who has been ogling Ginger. This is Jason, who to me looks so much like Justin Trudeau. And then I found out that this was a Canadian movie and I was like, is that secretly a young Justin Trudeau?

Interesting. No, I see it. I totally see it. Maybe they're like long distant cousins. I didn't even think about that. Wow. Wow. Anyway, he approaches Ginger and asks her out, but she's like, ooh, no, because she's above the idea of like being a teen girl who likes and dates boys. That's too like norm core for her. So at home, Ginger and Bridget have dinner with their mom and dad, who are like very, speaking of norm core, very much so compared to their daughters, like emo gothiness. Ginger complains about back pain and their mom is like, maybe you're finally getting cramps.

Maybe you're finally getting your period because apparently these two sisters, as their mom describes it, are three years late getting their period. They're 15 and 16. The age ranges for when people start menstruating, but their mom feels like they should have gotten their periods by now. We'll talk about the mom a lot because I was sort of surprised at where her story landed. Yeah. Yeah. In a more positive way than I was expecting because I feel like we just covered Jawbreaker, which one of my like, criticisms of that was that the adults were so like, under thought

that it was unclear, like, the world that we were really in. It was interesting because I do feel like there's it's like an over the top, especially for people who menstruate like I was a super late bloomer and it came up in the family, which is mortifying. I don't know. I felt seen by that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. I love Pam of all movie, horror movie moms. She always has like a very special place in my heart. She's so like loyal and again, we'll talk about her more later, but I just every time I watch this movie, I'm like, justice for Pam. Also I feel like there's a lot of like great of the time fashion in this movie, but I feel

like Pam kind of takes it. She really does. She's got the embroidered shirt of like others' nightmares. And like her little pumpkin earrings. I'm like, ah yes. Like little poofball earrings and her hair. Scrunchies and stuff. Love the hair. Great performance. Yeah. She's just a mom who's constantly like, isn't that fun? Yeah. Yeah.

She's great. She's played by Mimi Rogers. Mimi Rogers. OK, so the sisters go out that night to execute their plan with Trina's dog. But they come upon an already mulled dog at a playground and they're like, oh, we'll just use this. But before they can do anything with it, Ginger gets her period and says, I just got the curse.

Funniest Bechtel test passing exchange in the movie for me. Because then Bridget says, ew. Ginger says, it's not contagious. Anyway, it's a great exchange. Yeah. And then she's like, if you ever heard me like griping around a tampon machine, frigging kill me. I was like, just you wait. Just you wait. Yeah. Okay. So maybe because she's gotten her period and there's blood now, but the beast attacks Ginger, like pops out of the woods, drags her back into the woods. Bridget goes after her. There's a whole scuffle with this beast and it chases them onto the road, but then gets hit by a van and killed, allowing the

girls to escape. The driver of the van is this weed dealer guy named Sam, who we've met before because the popular girl, Trina, seems to have some kind of history with him. STACEY The Sam character, I just feel like he wants to be Christian Slater so bad. Oh, yeah, I see that. Yeah, I feel like there's a whole slate of kind of like Bruno style character actors that come out in the 90s into the 2000s that are just doing a really solid Christian Slater in Heather's impression. A slate of Slater wannabes.

A slate of Slaters, one could say. Yeah. A real bunch of Mr. Robots. So okay, the girls hurry back home. Ginger has sustained some pretty serious injuries from this beast attack. She's got these big gashes on her shoulder and she doesn't want anyone to know about this and she's somehow already healing But she's not feeling great, which could either be period cramps or the fact that she's

turning into a werewolf question mark Because Bridget had managed to take a Polaroid of the beast during the scuffle and it's not super clear but it looks like it might be a werewolf. So then Bridget approaches Sam to be like, hey what did you hit with your van the other night? And he's like, I don't know, a werewolf? And she's like, hmm interesting, that's what I think too. And then Trina comes up with her dog and it starts barking at Ginger on account of her now being a werewolf. So she kicks the dog, horrible, seem to watch

and runs into the bathroom and they discover fur growing out of the gashes in her shoulder. Period blood is like g growing out of the gashes in her shoulder. Period blood is like gushing out of her and it's gnarly. Bridget's like, yeah, I'm pretty sure you're a werewolf and Ginger's like, that's ridiculous. Werewolves aren't real. And being a werewolf gives you awesome highlights too. Yes. Yeah. I loved the werewolf highlights, great touch. Yeah, I loved the gradualness of her claws too.

I clocked it more this time around because every time I was like, oh man, her nails look so good. And then I look closer, I'm like, nope, those are claws. I thought that was a very interesting. This also too, as one of the few werewolf movies where it's not a sudden transformation, which again, we can talk about later, but I can't really think of any others that imply once

you turn, that's you 24 seven. And I feel like that's what this werewolf movie implies. Right. Yeah. Yeah. With her transformation, you're just like extra werewolfy on the full moon. But the rest of the time you're like, just kind werewolf-y. I saw like a lot written about that in like a positive way where it was like this like werewolf movies are so often beheld to moon cycles which are very similar to menstrual cycles and the fact that this movie doesn't fully lean into that is like kind of a strength because that would be the super obvious thing to do and I feel like it makes Ginger's emotional journey, like slowing it down does make it scarier. Absolutely.

Because you're like, is she changing because of her puberty, or is it because of the werewolf virus? And I think that's a relatable experience as a young person having all of her friends have crazy hormones all the time. So I love that choice. seeing her like really struggle with it too and be unsure about how she feels about the changes that are happening in her like it's it's great. Yeah, so The sisters get into an argument ginger thinks Bridget is jealous because

Ginger's growing up into a woman and Bridget is jealous because Ginger's growing up into a woman and Bridget still isn't. So they have this fight and at school, Ginger is now wearing like form fitting clothing. People are noticing her and being like, oh, woo-ga. She is making out with that Jason guy and ignoring Bridget. Meanwhile, Bridget starts researching werewolves.

She's also tracking Ginger's menstrual cycle and it seems like her next period might start on the full moon. She also discovers that Ginger is growing a tail and she links back up with Sam, Bridget does, so that they can figure out what to do about this whole werewolf thing and Sam speculates there might be a cure. Side note, this is like not super narratively consequential, but like at first Bridget tells

Sam that it's her who's affected by this to like protect Ginger. Yeah. But by the end he figures it out. Which made me confused at first, because I have one brain cell. I was like, wait, what? What? Outsmarted by a teenager yet again. But anyway, he gives Bridget an earring made of pure silver, because he's like, maybe it'll purify your blood and like rid it of this infection. and like rid it of this infection.

Ginger in the meantime has sex with Jason and kind of like chomps on him a bit, although she doesn't kill him, but she does kill a neighbor's dog, Norman the dog. And that's very sad. I know. The king, the goalie, the goalie. I know. Oh yeah, and he's like,. The goalie. Oh, yeah.

And he's like, Norman. He's like Norman. Nor hockey representation. That's like you're like, oh, yeah, the movie takes place in Canada. He's just like playing hockey by myself at home. Classic. Between that and the stories. Oh, my God. Yes. Every time she was saying sorry. OK, I didn't realize I forgot that it was a Canadian film until a while into the movie. And then someone says, sorry. And I'm like, oh my god, they're in Canada. It honestly is so wild seeing a teenage.

This is a very American observation. But like seeing a teenager in crisis with a Canadian twang outside of Degrassi was truly shocking to me. I was like, wait, when are they going to go see Drake? You know, but it's not how this movie goes. Okay, so Ginger and Bridget kind of make up and Ginger confides in Bridget that she has this insatiable hunger and wants to tear everything into pieces. She might be snapping, one could say. She's on the brink. She's... A snap is impending, you'll say.

Yeah, a snap impending is... That's sort of my status update right now. I will say the scene where she's, like, throwing up and talking about... I tried to look at my notes to see if I wrote down their quote. But any goth horror girl, that's like the favorite quote of I thought I was craving sex, but I want to tear everything to fucking pieces. That is one of my favorite.

It's just because I feel like to especially by 2000, you know, girlhood teenage girl rage was so rarely ever explored, especially in the manner that this film explores it. So that is one of my favorite lines in the whole movie. Yeah. That was the line where I was, I like turned to my boyfriend and I was like, this movie was, I guarantee, very popular on Tumblr.

That line alone. Absolutely. Like this movie did numbers on Tumblr in the future. Yes. Okay, so then Bridget has the idea to pierce Ginger's belly button and put in the silver earring in case that cures the werewolf-ism, but it doesn't seem to do anything and her tail by this point has grown so much that they have to tape it to her leg so the werewolfitis is getting worse. Then there's another field hockey gym class fight with Trina scene.

There's at least two of them in the movie. Where Ginger beats the shit out of Trina so they're still feuding. Meanwhile Jason is pissing blood and turning into a werewolf as well. It's stated that he and Ginger had unprotected sex and she passed along this because the movie treats the like werewolfism as a disease like it's an infection that can be passed on through sex so he's becoming a werewolf now Ginger and Bridget then go to Sam's greenhouse where he grows all of his weed and lives lives there, by the way. He lives at the greenhouse. Oh, right. Yes, yes, yes.

Yep. He tells them about an herb called Monkshood and how it could be a cure. But it's a perennial and it only grows in the springtime. And it seems like it's like fall. It's like Halloween time right now. So this doesn't really help them. And Ginger, let's say her snap, it's closer

than ever before. One night, Trina, the mean girl, comes over to confront the sisters about like taking her dog and Ginger attacks Trina who trips and hits her head and dies right when the sister's parents come home. So they do this like clever cover up and then they bury Trina in the yard and make a plan to just like run away after they're sure no one suspects them of killing Trina. Meanwhile, Jason is becoming more werewolf-y. He has this like intense rash on his face, his teeth are getting sharper, he's growing a tail.

This is silly, but I was looking up the actor who played Jason and he plays another character named Jason in Final Destination 3, my favorite Final Destination. He's the boyfriend that actually dies on the roller coaster at the beginning. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say, he's barely in it. But also the weed guy is also in Final Destination Three. Wait, really?

He plays the gothy guy who like gets squished by the giant sign for fans. Yes, oh my God. And the same actor. Oh my God, wait, with the other Canadian actor who was on Instant Star, I remember that. Wow. They literally just were like, Oh, can we get the guys from Ginger Snaps? Are they available? Pretty much. Yes. Can they play the same character? Also, yes. That's so funny. Oh yeah, there

he is. Ian. I remember him. I remember him. He's it's so hard because that movie is like Mary Elizabeth Wimsted, Ryan Merriman and others, unfortunately. I do also like Final Destination 3 as far as sequels. I actually really enjoy the whole series of Final Destination. I think it rocks except for the weird, I think it's the fourth one where it's like a racetrack one. That one blows. It's not fun.

It sucks. There's like a weird racism storyline that doesn't work very well No, but the rest of them I think are super fun and scary and I'll watch anything Tony Todd is in especially if he's representing death between that and candy man, but The battle this year three is definitely one of the one of the funner ones, I think. It's my favorite. The tanning bed scene. Oh, God. And the nail gun one, because I also worked in a scene shop for a long time.

Now, of course, with all the deaths, that is so extremely unlikely, but it's not impossible. And that is where Final Destination succeeds every time. The tanning bed in Final Destination 3 is the one I think about the most. Yeah. Ooh, all the time, all the time. How about she? Yeah, brutal. Okay, so Bridgette realizes that her mom

has bought a bunch of dried monk's hood, the herb that could potentially be the cure they're looking for, from a craft shop. Classic Pam. This is just in time because Ginger is really on the verge of a nervous snap down, we'll say. And Bridget locks Ginger in the bathroom so that she can't hurt anyone.

And Bridget takes the monk's hood to Sam to make the cure and they craft this like injectable version of it. But when Bridget goes home to administer it Ginger is not there, she has broken out of the bathroom, gone to school and she kills the school guidance counselor. Meanwhile, Bridget runs into Jason who is even more werewolf-y and I would say he's having a Jason snap. Jason snaps. Not as fun. A little scarier too sometimes with his. Yeah. I mean we're along with Ginger for the Ride and she's been shown to be cool. But his snap-in is also familiar to in a way that's uncomfortable. I've been around teen boys who, without the werewolfism, act like that.

So his character was written a little too well in some aspects. Yeah, it's almost like boys and men are socialized to be overly aggressive in many contexts. And girls will cure them. Right, because what happens is Bridgett injects him with the cure and it seems to work pretty instantly. So we're like, okay, the cure works. So then Bridgett finds Ginger and she's like, okay, we'll just clean up the body of this dead guidance counselor and then we're gonna run away. And by now Ginger is looking quite wolfy. She's still like human-ish but also wolf-ish.

And she's pretty evil now. She doesn't really seem to have as much remorse as she once did. I would say it's safe to say that Ginger has snapped at this point because she like attacks and kills the school custodian for pretty much no reason. And she tries to convince Bridget to become a werewolf like her and Bridget refuses. So, Ginger storms off and approaches Sam, attempts to seduce slash assault him, and then Bridget comes in to save him by cutting her hand and exchanging blood with Ginger so that Bridget will get infected with werewolfitis and that'll kind of distract Ginger. So Bridget and Sam take Ginger back home to make more of the cure, but by now Ginger is like full werewolf and Bridget is also turning into a werewolf because of this like blood exchange thing.

And Ginger's just kind of running around the house on the loose and Sam and Bridget are making the next cure. But then Ginger Wolf grabs Sam and bites the shit out of him. Bridget finds them and starts eating Sam's blood, but realizes like, I can't do this. I can't, I refuse to embrace werewolf culture. So she and Ginger have like the big final showdown. They're chasing each other.

Ginger lunges at Bridget, who stabs and kills Ginger. And so Bridget is very sad that her, you know, beloved sister is dead. And that's how the movie ends. So let's take a quick break and we'll come back to discuss. We're turning up the heat on the newest episode of All the Smoke. Vice president and Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris pulls up to the show to discuss her historic presidential run. Most people have ambition. They have aspirations. They have dreams and they are willing to work hard.

And if we give people the opportunity to actually meet those goals, they jump for it every time. Matinstack will be diving deep into the journey that brought her here, her vision for the future, and the real stories behind the headlines. Make sure you check out All the Smoke with Vice President Kamala Harris, out now. Listen today on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's me Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the award-winning podcast On Purpose. I created this show to bring you conversations

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moment you're prepared to take responsibility for your life and for everything that goes wrong and for everything that goes right and it's hard. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you'll not want to miss this one. Hi, I'm Essie Cupp, and I have spent the last 20 plus years knee deep in politics and the news. I've covered some really tough subjects,

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a fun and loose space where I talk to my famous friends and people I admire about all the stuff that consumes us when we're not consumed by politics. I did not really rebel in the 60s. I had no sex in the 70s. Um. What? I made no money in the 80s.

So when true crime came along, I missed that trend too. So many great guests are joining me from Josh Mankiewicz to Larry Wilmore, to Molly John Fass, to Josh Gad. I'm so excited that you have this platform and I am just like hoping that I don't destroy the platform in its earliest stages. Listen to Off the Cup on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Gianna Pedente. And I'm Jeme Jackson-Gadsden. or wherever you get your favorite shows. feeling overwhelmed. Or, can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job?

Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties, you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner. The only difference between the person

who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah. I think a lot about that quote. What is it? Like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah. Rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself.

Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, y'all? This is Questlove, and I'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast.

Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimini, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out. Hey, y'all. Nimini here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip hop.

Flash slam, another one gone. Bash bam, another one gone. The cracker, the bat, and another one gone. A tip, but a cap, cause another one gone. Each episode is about a different, inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15 year old girl in Alabama

who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it! And it began with me Did you know, did you know I wouldn't give up my seat Nine months before Rosa, it was Claudette Colvin Get the kids in your life excited about history

by tuning in to Historical Records, because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Boy are we. Where to begin? I also, I just wanted to talk about the ending really quick where the ending made me so sad.

I know. It's a bummer. Yeah. Every time I watch it, it makes me so sad, but also it just, there was no personally, no other ending to be had. Ginger was too far gone. Right. And I also thought it was interesting, too, because they're so death obsessed, this entire movie.

And this situation, this virus, this scenario proved that, especially for Bridget, she did not want death. She was never she did not want to die with her sister. So it's a very layered and almost makes it more sad too. Yeah, the more I thought about it, the sadder it made me because on the second viewing, I also noticed that, it almost seems that Ginger chooses death because Bridget is holding the syringe also.

She's holding the cure and she's holding the knife and Ginger lunges onto the knife because like you're saying, Olivia, I think Ginger almost recognizes that she is too far gone and that it gives her sister the best chance to survive if she's not there, which is like Shakespearean. It's really brutal. And I'm trying to remember, I don't have the citation in front of me, but I read an interpretation of this movie that speaks to what you're saying that how they are so death obsessed in the way that I think a lot of young people are in a world where it still is a more nebulous concept. We don't really

know that they've had first person interactions or brushes with death really. And I mean, I know that I was like that as a kid, where if you're unhappy and it's kind of a more like a morbid nebulous concept, it's almost, I found it easier to interact with than I do now. But I read sort of Ginger's character being a meditation on suicidality in young people where it's revealed, as time goes on, that Bridget is sort of interacting

with the concept out of curiosity and Ginger may not be because we see Ginger makes an attempt on her own life in the space of the movie and that it's sort of implied that while their parents care about them, they're not an adequate support system for a kid who's depressed. That wasn't necessarily my read of it, but I thought it was interesting.

And that, I mean, it's certainly a valid read of that character dynamic. Absolutely. And I've watched this several times, and I think each time I get really enamored with the special effects, with the, you know, descent to werewolfism. But this time, I really focused in on the relationship between Bridget and Ginger. And I have a sister and I'm very close with her, but our relationship is not like this where we're so codependent.

And at some point, their relationship becomes extremely toxic and abusive. And so, because in the very beginning, Ginger says, well, Bridget, this whole death thing was your idea when you were eight years old. So I think that speaks to Bridget's curiosity with it. But because Ginger is so dependent on Bridget, it morphed into both of them being obsessed with it.

Yeah, so I agree with the ending being really sad. Yeah. But it also just went away I wasn't expecting to, where I don't know, I think we just, again, I'm gonna call back to Jawbreaker because we just talked about it yesterday, but how, you know, I think we just, again, I'm gonna call back to Jawbreaker because we just talked about it yesterday. But how, you know, when Sam is introduced, you're like, oh my God, is this gonna be like

Deus ex-boyfriend like we see so frequently in movies? And it's not exactly that because it's not a romantic relationship. And he dies at the end. Like I feel like most movies would have him, you know, like, and it's almost like you're set up to have that expectation where, you know, Sam's like, I'm going to go out there. I'm going to, I've got this blah, blah, blah. And then he's like instantly dead. And you're like, yeah, yeah, that actually makes more sense. And I didn't dislike that character, but I don't know,

I expected him to live. So the fact that he did die, I was kind of surprised. And I was surprised that Ginger dies. I mean, I just like, like, it went this really, really tragic way that I did not see it going. But I agree, Olivia, that like, how else could it end once you see that ending? Once you embrace the beast. Exactly. Their relationship was fascinating. I mean, there are little elements, too, that I'm guessing are coming from Karen Walton of just specific kind of girlhood things.

But I mean, it applies across the gender spectrum. But if you're like, I remember when my older cousins hit puberty before me and just the instant feeling of being left behind and the instant feeling of being left behind and the instant feeling that they had changed. And then the same experience for my cousins who were younger than me, all of a sudden feeling like they're kids and I'm a adult, like, look,

they don't get, you know. And I mean, I think like Emily Perkins gives such a great performance in this movie too. I feel like she's like, I don't know, far in the way the performance of the movie for me, but you can instantly feel how like disorienting and hurtful it is when her sister is not, you know, when they're not peers in quite the same way

or that like there is a change in their bodies that makes it, I don't know. Like I get that feeling of disoriented. And also a bit of betrayal too, especially when you go from them kind of rejecting being a girl, right? They don't necessarily want to be the opposite, but they definitely reject girlhood because everything is, well, that's girly. If I complain about tampons, blah, blah, blah. And then also not wanting to hook up with guys at that age transitioning from having

no romantic interest to a romantic interest and your friend or sister hating it before you. It feels like a betrayal almost. And you read that so well in Bridget. She's a very relatable character. I think she's written pretty well too. Yeah. I love when she goes, you're doing drugs with boys now?

Yes. Oh, because this movie, I guess, I mean, this is like emblematic of the time, but like weed was considered like, oh my God, drugs. This person's dealing weed. And the age of like, because I got high, like that, you know, early odds. One of my favorite Bridget lines I wrote down is when her and Ginger are fighting and Ginger is becoming hairy, puberty, werewolfism, who knows why.

And she says, at least I'm not hemorrhaging and hairy. And I don't know, that's just, I was like, wow, that would hit me so deep at that age, you know? That's hilarious. Now, right? But I thought that was so funny. My favorite Ginger Reed in the movie is like when she's like making out with Jason or whatever, she's, she's doing her thing and Bridget goes Ginger a word and she goes, is it sorry? And I was like, Ooh, just like such a teenage interaction. Well, another thing I find really interesting about this dynamic that again, because sisters are so rarely explored in movies, you get so few examples of interesting sister dynamics. One thing that I thought was presented compellingly about this movie is the like power dynamic also between them and like the

imbalance of power where like Ginger, because she's slightly older, because she reaches puberty first or gets her period first because she is more, I suppose, sought after by boys at this school and she has more social status. Which is a different kind of unspoken pain that can exist between sisters or friends or whatever. For sure. Navigating that sucks. Especially because a lot of people will look at Bridget and be like, what a little dweeby weirdo, but her sister's hot. So like, right, the

worst, there's all these things that are informing this imbalance of power, which like Ginger exploits more and more throughout the movie, you know, after she becomes a werewolf, but even before where she's like doing very like sisterly manipulative things to Bridget. And I don't know, it just, it felt like a familiar thing to me that you again, don't often see in movies. So yeah, I just like, I'm like, wow, this was written by someone who understands sisters.

And like cares about it. Cause yeah, I mean, it is cathartic and cool to, I don't know, I felt like it like speaks to how well written it is that by the end, it is like really cathartic to see Bridget stand up to Ginger and be like, you cannot control me. You cannot like make me do like bend to your will. But even that doesn't make us hate Ginger, which I feel like is really hard to do.

That the fact that even when Ginger, I mean, she is a full on monster by the end. She's horrible. And like so little of herself remains, but you still are very invested and it's still horrible seeing her die because of how connected you know they are and how it's going to affect Bridget. And yeah, I don't know. And then anyone who's been through puberty is just like, oh no, yes, it's the time in puberty

where your brain just isn't in your body anymore and you have to let your sister stab you to death. I do have a lot of thoughts about the movie likening certain evil things like being a werewolf to certain other things that I don't feel aged very well about this movie. I'll get to that in a moment, but I did want to first just share a few quotes from the press kit of this movie. I'll get to that in a moment, but I did wanna first just share a few quotes from the press kit of this movie, just that will kind of add some context

as far as like the development of the story. So this movie was directed by a man named John Fawcett. It was written by a woman, again, Karen Walton, shout out. And then the story, they both have story by credits. So they conceived the story together, it seems. And then Karen wrote the script. Yeah, they work together a lot, I think. Yeah. John Fawcett is like the person behind Orphan Black. Is that right? Yes.

Yeah. And I think they both work. She was an executive producer on some quite a few episodes and she wrote a few episodes too. Yeah, which I never watched that show, but I've never heard a bad word about it. I know people love it. I've seen, I think, season one and then I forgot to keep watching. Very classic Caitlin behavior. And then I know that she also wrote on Queer as Folk and wrote on a lot of TV, Karen Walton did. Right, so anyway, from the press kit of this movie,

quote, in January of 1995, John Fawcett approached screenwriter Karen Walton with a premise for a screenplay. As Fawcett tells it, "'I knew that I wanted to make a metamorphosis movie "'and a horror film. "'I also knew that I wanted to work with girls.' "'That's basically how it all started.' "'W Walton recalls, John and I talked a lot

about working together. We just had to try and find an idea that appealed to us both. Initially, I didn't want to get involved in writing a horror movie at all. I generally find them very disappointing as stories and pretty predictable and frustrating in terms of the depiction of females. However, conversations with Fawcett led Walton to realize that it was a genre ripe for reinterpretation. Ginger snaps presented an opportunity to make something sophisticated, to create real characters with real problems, characters that are human beings whose struggles

are based on relationships. I found the horror element in the nightmare of trying to figure out who you are and who it is that you love. That was attractive to me. The opportunity to put a twist on the subject matter, explains Walton. Right from the start we wanted to make a movie that would entertain." Unquote. So, yeah, I feel like in at least, again, the relationship with the sisters, like, and that being a huge focus of the movie and that being an aspect that I think works very well. And again, like a reinterpretation of the werewolf subgenre. Well, and before, so this is a 2000 movie. And before this werewolf was so masculine, right? Masculine, animalistic.

I think really the only depiction of women with werewolfism before was The Howling. But even then it leaned more into like sexy werewolf versus what being a woman and being a werewolf. And then there's another movie called The Company of Wolves. That's a little similar to Ginger Snaps in that it's kind of an exploration of growing up. Right. But it's not it's more Alice in Wonderland type of interpretation of growing up versus this very brutal version of of growing up. So this was a very for 2000, a unique opportunity

to lend werewolfism to specifically female puberty. Right. One of the things I had a really hard time with on the first viewing of this movie that felt immediately very dated was the likening of womanhood strictly to menstruation. And while obviously there's a ton of women who do menstruate, that that's not a universal experience.

So in that way I was like, I don't know how to feel about that. I have since looked into, you know, there are, I'm going to share some of it in a bit, but there was a trans analysis of Ginger Snaps that really embraces the movie and is like, yes, it is very, you know, prescriptive in how it presents coming of age as a woman, but there is a lot to love if you are looking for a trans read of the movie. Here's what I connected to as a young person. And I still think that like, it works in the bloody sense and in the sense that puberty is horrific, regardless of who you are. And it's painful and it's confusing and your brain doesn't work anymore.

And you're hairy and it's scary and all your friends are being weird. Wow, poetry. Thank you. Yeah, I'm gonna start snapping. Ginger snapping? I'm gonna start snapping. Ginger snapping? I'm gonna start ginger snapping. But that did stick out to me as a potential like kind of overly prescriptive thing. What did we think about that watching the movie in 2024?

I feel that and I also feel that because the movie like pretty intrinsically ties menstruation with becoming a werewolf because like Ginger becomes a werewolf the same day she gets her period and her cycle seems linked up with the full moon like the cycle of werewolfdom. I was like, okay, because of the history of like, people with uteruses and people who menstruate being like shunned from their communities for that and like, you know, these dark ages, patriarchal standards that would like put menstruating people like cast them away while they were menstruating, and that there's so much shame attached still to this day to menstruating, and people who menstruate

are conditioned to think, ooh, keep this a secret. Yeah, don't talk about it, don't complain about it. Right. Even if it's killing you, which. The day that I did my first watch of this movie, and this is perhaps TMI, but I am trying to normalize, like talking about uterus stuff, talking about menstruation. I talk to like my cis man friends all the time

about my period because I'm just like, they need to hear this and they need to understand what the fuck is happening. Yeah. But the same day that I did my first watch of this movie, I had an IUD inserted because my periods are so painful and I've been on this ongoing journey of just like, how can I not have periods anymore? So with that personal experience, I'm like, yeah, I do get to some degree that there could and maybe should be like horror movies and body horror movies about menstruation because like it can be a very horrific experience to the fact that I'm like, when can I have a hysterectomy so I don't have to deal with this anymore. It is like ruining my life. But because there's all this history with shame surrounding menstruation and then like likening that to this evil hunger in you of werewolfism, I don't know. I'm kind of all over the place with how I feel about it. What I feel

more certain that I don't like is the movie also likening being an evil werewolf to contracting an STI. That's the bigger problem I think I have with the movie, but it's sort of all over the place. This movie is doing a lot. And I say that in a praising way. Like, I think it is like, horror movies are the best place to do a lot. And I say that in a praising way. Like, I think it is like horror movies are the best place to do a lot. It's the best place to like explore themes like shame and fear and,

you know, all this amazing stuff. I think that yeah, where the like werewolf metaphor diverted in certain points, I thought got a little bit muddled and was like, because they were trying to do and because they were doing so much, the metaphor was representing like three or four different things at certain points. And some of the angles worked for me, the puberty angle worked for me, but the STI thing felt very dated and shamy and just like sort of extended to a shame around sex, the conflation of assaults and like a lot of the like sex based metaphors really kind of fell flat for me and were uncomfortable to watch in the future. I don't know, Olivia, what do you,

what do you make of it as a long time fan? I got a lot of thoughts. So I can understand the criticism and being uncomfortable with the likening, werewolfism, especially to girl female puberty. And I'm trying to say female specifically as a sex term, like female male, not as a gender term, just to be very clear. I will say though, part of what I think why this movie has such a cult following is because we are shamed for our periods. And the read I got from this movie was the power in puberty. And that's how like, I think, because I totally understand also interpretation as we were talking. It was like, yeah, I know that is upsetting. But for me watching and also just how clinically menstruation was talked about.

To me, the other characters, the mom, the nurse, there was no shame in them talking about puberty and about periods. And they feel like even though the girls are grossed out by it, the movie itself is not necessarily shaming, in my opinion. I tend to agree, yeah. Yeah. The trope of the werewolf virus as an STD, that is got to comment because not only do I watch a lot of horror movies, I watch a lot of horror shows with monsters, with vampires,

with everything. And I have never explored the negativity of that. It's just always been what it is. And part of that, too, is like turning into these monsters usually means implying losing your soul at the same time, which is how they are able to do these horrific acts like sexual assault without remorse. So I agree with also Jamie that the movies using the metaphor of verbalism a little too

many directions. It's a lot to take in. So I don't know if I'm necessarily against using the monsterness as an STD. My interpretation was also the emphasis on just using protection during sex too. This movie somewhat felt like an ad for safe sex as well. And I even wrote down to, I was like, this is more comprehensive about menstruation than most public schools. Again though, I think that's because they're in Canada.

God. But I don't know. Never forget the abortion episode of Degrassi. They were not allowed to show in the States. Yep. My cousin and I had to buy a pirated DVD off of eBay after we stole my aunt's credit card. Wow, beautiful story.

For me, the problem is with how historically STIs have been similar to menstruation, shamed and so much stigma and shame is attached to having an STI, that to liken like getting infected with some horrible monstruism and becoming this soulless demon being beast, likening that to having an STI and because of the context, so much shame is attached to having an STI. That's where therein lies the problem for me. I was leaning toward that read as well. And it is like this movie is so tricky because there are so many ways to see it where I was trying to imagine how I would feel about like internalized shame about periods. If I saw this movie when I was like 15, And I really don't think it would have made me feel ashamed.

I think it would have been like, I think more just like a super like teenager, yes, like, you know, cathartic, like first of all, seeing menstruation represented on screen. And I think Olivia, like you were saying earlier, as it being something that makes you, yes, unstable, but also extremely powerful and like seeing it not presented in the way that you ordinarily see menstruation presented as something that makes you like fall into these really hysterical tropes.

And because we're like with these characters, it's like I agree with your read, Caitlin. And I also like, I don't know, it's so easy to like, I feel like I keep going back and forth on how to feel about it. And it does feel like a movie that really depends on like the individual. Cause it doesn't feel like it's trying to shame you about it.

And I thought it was interesting how the different views and the way that menstruation is presented. I think like one of the things it does really well is the very like, so yes, your body's going to gush and it's going to hurt. And that sort of presented at school and at home of like, it's okay, it's all good, it's actually awesome. And that to me represented the internalized shame.

I mean, they're not ashamed of it necessarily because they are talking about it, but they're not talking about it, honestly. And I feel like, you know, the werewolf narrative is closer to talking about it. Honestly, it's like brutal and confusing and fucked up and blah, blah, blah. And but yeah, I don't know the STI thing. I just wish that it was maybe even talked about a little differently,

because it did feel like there was some shaming language attributed to it. And then outside of that, yeah, I think with regards to sex, I mean, it's weird, because there's like lines that in isolation, you're like, oh, that's kind of cool, where Ginger's talking about the first time she's had sex, and we'll talk about what that actually means,

but that she's like, oh, it was kind of disappointing. And like, I loved that little monologue. Yeah. Right. I wrote it down and I'm like, exactly. Right, like that's, I think, like a very cathartic thing for having sex with cis men. It's often disappointing. And I liked that line and that monologue,

but she's responding to, she assaulted Jason. And Jason, while in isolation in those scenes where he's very aggressive and really acting out in the typical pubescent teenage boy way of just irrational anger directed at women often. He becomes a villain without taking into consideration the fact that he was assaulted into this predicament in the first place, which I don't know if like it is the time it's being written in. It just felt like the we know that it's not right that Ginger did that. But I just, that sat weird with me.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a rape scene that is not framed as being a rape scene because I think in part, because it's a woman being the aggressor and a man as the victim. And that is so rarely, especially at this time, would that have been even considered rape or assault because the roles are quote unquote reversed. I have one final thought about the STI that I

took note on. And again, I think the reason because I agree with all of your reads, and that has actually made me think differently about it. However, the only other thing I wanted to say is that before this movie, both in horror and just like regular movie and TV shows, whenever teenagers have sex, it's always the girl that suffers consequences, whether it's being pregnant or the social aspect of being labeled a slut or whatever. This is one of the few times that a boy suffers actual consequences from sex. Now, I'm not saying that's a good or bad thing.

That's just an observation I made this time. And I think if I were to guess that was the purpose of it being presented as STI was to subvert the trope of boys suffering no consequences when they have sex. I don't agree with it, but I think that for me, I think that was maybe the point of it. I guess. That was maybe the intention. Yeah. I feel like that if there were some adjustments

it would like have scanned clear, cause you do see Jason struggle with what happened to him. I mean, he was like assaulted by Ginger and then you see him do, I think what he thinks he's supposed to do, which is go to the other guys and be like, yeah, that like, she like rocked my world, or like whatever weird dated slang he uses to describe sex. But you can tell he's really upset by it,

but he's acting in the way he's supposed to. And that feels very intentional. And then you see it's fucked him up irrevocably. And in one way, I appreciate that this movie has basically no empathy for men whatsoever, except for Sam occasionally. But Jason's character, I was like, yeah, I mean, I hear what you're saying, Olivia. And I think that that makes a lot of sense

in a landscape where this would never be considered because like centering. And that was an interesting part of researching the production of this movie was really, I mean, it was up and down. But in general, Emily Perkins has talked a lot about it and from the beginning was out there saying, this is a feminist horror movie. There are not a lot of movies like it. It's very important to me. And I was talking about the on-set experience

as like the two male leads kind of being weirded out at first because they never participated in a project where men hadn't been centered. And it took like a couple of days for the two lead actresses to like, kind of not like lay down the law, but like be like, this is our movie. It's not about the stars of the movie. And they were like, kind of not like lay down the law, but like be like, this is our movie. It's not the stars of the movie.

And they were like, well, you know, and it seems like the relationships between the actors were fine, but they were just like, they were kind of thrown for a loop, which like really speaks to the 1999 of it all. Other stuff I was finding was unfortunately, the difficult part of production that I found,

and this isn't something that the actor who plays Ginger, Catherine Isabel, looks back on as something that was particularly scarring, but she did mention it in interviews, was that particularly in that rape scene, because she was 17 when she was playing that part, and there was no intimacy coordinator. She said that she hadn't had sex before at that time and was pretty confused about what

she was supposed to be doing. She was uncomfortable. She took a shot of cinnamon whiskey before because she was so nervous and I don't know, very dated. I feel like you hear stories like that on indie sets, but it always just, I don't know, if you can't afford an intimacy coordinator, maybe wait to make your movie if you want to make a rape scene that is perpetrated by a teenager.

Yeah, yeah, there's so many levels of concerning things happening there. Also, I mean, I don't know how common practice it even was 25 years ago to have intimacy coordinators. I don't think it, like even until like the last 10 years, it was popular. Yeah, I mean, so that's not like, I mean, I don't mean to like specifically call out this movie,

but especially because it was an underage actor, like that's, that's not like, I mean, I don't mean to like specifically call out this movie, but especially because it was an underage actor. Like that's, yeah, that's challenging. Absolutely. The other thing that I just thought was worth mentioning, it's not a criticism of the movie, but just to like set this in time was that this movie was a flop at the box office, which is ridiculous. It's an awesome movie.

But they also had a lot of difficulty getting it made in the first place because this movie was being, went into production around the time that the Columbine shooting happened. And so I found a Guardian interview from a couple of years ago that sort of contextualizes the culture that this was coming into. So this comes from John Fawcett. He says, we were prepping for ginger snaps the same year as the Columbine shooting. There was a lot of focus in the media on how movies made kids violent and the idea of a bloody film set in a high school didn't go down too well with casting directors in Canada. Some

of them joined forces to boycott our film and the national post ran an article on it. All the schools we asked turned us down but luckily another film production had just a set of three tiny school highways that we could shoot on. We sent Scarlett Johansson a script to see if she was interested in Bridget but her mother had read the National Post article and didn't want her daughter involved. So I feel like this also intersects with a lot of satanic panic stuff and like kind of the tail end of that period. And also it was just wild to think about young Scarlett Johansson in this movie.

That's crazy. I can't imagine. I mean, Isabel does such a good job. And she's also kind of gone to be a kind of a horror royalty. She's in a lot of other horror movies and she does a fantastic job on them. But yeah, it is very interesting to think of Scarlett Johansson in this role. I actually recently sorry, totally going off track. I recently rewatched Eight Like It Freaks.

I don't know why I was in the movie for a feature feature. She is in it. It's again, a very young Scarlett Johansson, and she is hilarious in it. Her character is mostly like fighting off her boyfriend and she tases him and the genitals at some point because he won't take no as an answer. It is as a much funnier film than I was expecting it to be. Damn. OK. Yeah, I've never seen it. It's interesting. Well, the CGI holds up pretty well, too.

But anyway, it's interesting to think of Scarlett Johansson turning into a werewolf. Yeah. It's interesting to think of Scarlett Johansson turning into a werewolf. I want to get back to the weird sexual politics of the movie because I do really feel all over the place to me where maybe it would have worked a lot better for me if her becoming a werewolf coincides with her menstruating for the first time. And then that also coincides with like, she's embracing and being empowered by her sexuality, like she perhaps didn't before because we do see that to some extent where she seems, even though she describes like I thought I was really hungry for sex, but I just want to eat dogs

or whatever. But you also see her be something that you could interpret as like sexually liberated and embracing her sexuality. And she's doing it in a way that is often assaulting people because similar to the scene with Jason, she also assaults Sam because we see neither of them consent to it. We see neither Jason nor Sam. They're saying, no, stop, like, don't do that, all this stuff. And she's like powering past them saying no. But with Sam, he, like, pushes her off of him, and his not giving consent is, like, respected by the movie, where, I don't know, whereas, like, it's treated differently with Jason. Because I think we're just supposed to think Jason is bad,

so if something horrific happens to him, it doesn't matter, which is, like, I don't, I would be really surprised if that scene was interpreted in the same way today. Right. But Sam is also bad because we learn, and this kind of blink and you miss it almost, because like we're meant to feel empathetic toward him because he's helping the sisters out

with this werewolf problem. And it's not even though he's reluctantly helping them out because I feel like generally you would see a male character who is helping women or girls do so very reluctantly, but he's like approaching them and being like, let's figure this out. Let's find the cure. And then there's a scene between Trina and Bridget where Trina tells her because Trina's like, she thinks like maybe Sam and Bridget are dating and she seems jealous of it at first, but then she confides in Bridget that Sam, I think she calls him a cherry chaser, meaning he only goes after virgins and basically implies that Trina had sex with him, like lost her

virginity to him, and then he cast her aside and she feels awful about it. We do see that scene where she tries to talk to him and he ignores her. He's very dismissive. Yeah, for sure. So you find this out about Sam. So then when he dies, you're like, good riddance. But it's weird that that isn't, I guess, called more attention to or that that... So I read that similar to Jennifer's body. Also, I did write down a quote, Ginger snapped so Jennifer could body. Jennifer's body, like really, I mean, obviously this was a small Canadian hit, but it was definitely a precursor to a Jennifer's body movie. I interpreted that similar to Jennifer's

body in that there are many instances throughout the movie, even at the very beginning when Bridget is getting a little bit of attention from the janitor and he is so clearly just wanting to help her. There's no other pretense. But then Ginger comes up and says, he's staring down your shirt. We as the audience know that wasn't happening at all. And Ginger herself more than likely knows that wasn't happening. But because of their co-dependency and because of her jealousy and almost obsessiveness with their sisterness, sisterhood, anything Bridget has, Ginger has to have. So that's how I interpreted this, particularly the Sam assault. Is that because Sam was giving Bridget attention, then that means Ginger had to have his attention.

Even though I don't think she even wanted to sleep with him. I think at that point, she really just wanted to rip him apart. I think too, the way that his was respected more is because he was older, technically, and there is some authority with being older. I don't really know. But I'm with you on that one. The reactions to it, to the handling of both was interesting. Nicole Cote Especially because, I mean, otherwise, if we're supposed to empathize with Sam more so than Jason, I mean, it still doesn't make Jason being assaulted, right? But why go out of the way to tell us

that Sam is kind of a scumbag if that's the case? I think what was interesting, this connects to a Karen Walton quote, is like, I think we are, as the audience, because it's sort of because Ginger keeps saying it, that we're like supposed to maybe be perceiving some sort of romance between Sam and Bridget because they are boy and girl hanging out. And that's how that goes in these movies. But I do think it's interesting that they

like, that does not go anywhere. And there was an interview done with Karen Walton a couple of years ago in Bloody Disgusting by Tatiana Tenrero, who just out and out asks, many queer fans consider Bridget to be a queer heroine. Do you think of her as a character who is queer? And Karen Walton replies, you know what's funny, that question I've been asked before, but really in the last few years, people have started asking me that.

Again, stories have changed, and the way you're reading that character has evolved. I always like to say about Bridget, however you imagine her life after this movie is absolutely true. I don't want to over-describe what people could and their hearts put on her, but I definitely don't think she was the straightest individual. She's probably a little queer, probably. I mean, she's so far from thinking about who she would date at that point in her life or like wanting to be with or being in love. It's just not happened for her yet. I suppose I wouldn't say it isn't possible that she's queer.

Excellent evasive answer by Karen Walton. But I mean, again, just I think that a movie I would like less probably a movie written by a man perceiving teenage girls. And again, just keeping in mind that we just covered Jawbreaker would default to like, let's make this relationship explicitly romantic that will introduce conflict between Ginger and Bridget. But I think what is more interesting, even though it does lead to some problematic places, is not that a relationship is actually happening, but that Ginger perceives a relationship is happening and retaliates

anyways. And it's not like Bridget is like, do I choose my sister or my boyfriend? Like she's always going to choose Ginger, no doubt about it. But it's how Ginger reacts to her sister. Just, I mean, really just like forming a relationship outside of theirs that I feel like causes her to retaliate in this really violent way. It's just a more interesting choice. Yeah, I kept calling him Weed Guy in my notes because I could not reverse him. Also, their relationship was barely between Sam and Bridget,

barely platonic, to be honest. They weren't, like, hanging out as friends, right? Yeah, pretty utilitarian. Right, utilitarian is such an excellent word, and I couldn't find it because in my notes I was like, because I also like to read comic books and I like superhero movies and it feels like there's a fun trope sometimes in those where it's two superheroes who don't like each other really but they have to work together.

And that's what Sam and Bridget felt to me. Like Bridget thinks he's older and gross and doesn't want to be around him at all. And it's so clear Sam sees her as a child and is treating her as such. So, and it's not even like a brother-sister relationship either. So, it's a very unique dynamic that is, I feel, rarely seen of like a utilitarian meetup outside of the like comic book superhero genre.

Right. Because he's he's useful to the extent that he has weed knowledge. Like he just that is his function. He knows about herbs. He has needles, apparently. Right. He's got drug paraphernalia. Or wolfsbane. Yeah. Wolfhood or whatever it's called. Yeah, Wolf Hood or whatever it's called. Yeah, I wanted to give a quick shout out to Ginger acknowledging that they probably won't

get caught for this, at least, you know, pre a few other of Ginger's murders. But there's a point, it's like right after Trina has died, and it's basically Ginger's fault where Ginger's like, you know, no one ever thinks chicks do stuff like this. Girls can be a slut bitch, tease, or the virgin next door, parentheses, but no one will expect us of being murderers. And then she says, we'll just coast on the way the world works, aka like the double standards and the sexism and the gendered

assumptions people make about women. And that felt very parallel to a moment later on when the mom discovers the body and rather than turn her daughters in, she's going to ride or die and burn the house down with the dad in it apparently. Kill her husband. Pam. Yeah, she's like, I don't give a shit about dad. Parallels with that moment because you see Bridget finally have sympathy for Pam and

she says, it's not your fault. None of this is your fault. And Pam says, well, the world will say it is. Everyone will say it's my fault. And I felt like you just can't escape that sexism, whether it's in girlhood, teenagehood, or adulthood. And I just, I really liked those two moments, especially being 30 minutes after each other pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. I agree that because I was getting like Pam is like a great comic relief character. She's such an exaggerated, like

parrot who is genuinely doing her best, but is doing what she thinks she's supposed to do instead of actually listening to her kids, which is a lot of parents. And there is, there seems to be some degree of internalized misogyny with her as well. And it's like kind of made a joke of that the parents' relationship isn't very good and whatever. like all these like kind of goofy divorce jokes, right? But I really liked that she got a beat at the end of like, because, you know, Ginger says stuff like that

and the way that women are perceived is so drawn attention to, I feel like it would have really stuck out like a sore thumb if Pam never got any characterization outside of being kind of like a clueless mom from a Disney Channel show basically. But you do get that moment from her where, yeah, she loves her daughters, you know?

And that she's willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to protect her daughters. And I'm sure Trina's family may disagree, but I just thought that was a cool way without even taking a lot of time to show that like, it's kind of Pam putting on a show, she's doing what she thinks she's supposed to do. And the fact that she will be perceived by the world

a certain way no matter what she says, no matter what she does. So I appreciated that being there at the end. I wonder what becomes of her. Do you remember what becomes of her in the second movie? So the second movie picks up right after this one. Bridgette runs away. And that's when you learn to, not to be a bummer, but the cure doesn't really work.

It kind of just staves off the symptoms. And she ends up, she's committed because she's a minor. She's found in a hotel room by herself. She has no identification on her. So the police catch her and commit her to a mental health hospital. And that's actually where most of the movie takes place. So most of the movie is her actually trying to escape the hospital. And very young Tatiana Maslany is in it. That one is not written by Karen Walton. The two sequels are not written by her. I think she gets character by credits for the second one.

And I say that because the second one is not good. I did not enjoy it. I do not rewatch it. Also similar to Dog Soldiers, takes a really weird misogynistic turn at the end that doesn't quite match everything that has led up to it. But that's what, so nothing on the mom. As far as we know, she's still with her husband. Interesting.

Hasn't burnt down the house yet. Bummer. Yeah, I know. I've got one more thing to add really quickly. I just wanted to share from an essay by a writer named Logan Ashley Kinzer, who's a trans writer, wrote about the different trans reads of this movie. We can link it in the description as well. It's from their newsletter. But basically I'll summarize it a bit that, you know, Ginger's

transformation has been perceived as a transgender coming out story. And just, I wanted to read this specific line because it really hit for me of reading Ginger as transgender is not the easy reading, but it is the most common. Her arc is about the trauma of puberty and that can also be expanded upon to be about the trauma of the wrong puberty. So even though this is like a pretty cis focused metaphor that a lot of trans viewers have seen themselves in that as well, they go on to describe that the read that affected them the most was Bridget as a trans masculine character which was the read that was not presented really in anything they'd ever seen. And yeah, so I was willing to that in the description as well. But it was a really thorough,

really interesting read that, you know, I don't think was the intended, but also that's like what's so wonderful about, about genre movies is it just, it really opens it up to all sorts of readings and yeah, it's a great piece. Absolutely. Yeah. Nice. This movie does pass the Bechtel test. Yeah, several times. So many times they're talking about being werewolves.

They're talking about wolfsbane herbs or whatever the fuck the herb is called. Yeah, there's lots of conversations that pass between various characters, the sisters, the sisters and their mom, the sisters and Trina. So lots of passes. As far as our nipple scale goes, and I feel like there's like, there's so much to talk about with this movie. We've just kind of run out of time, but so if we missed anything, we're curious if, you know, listeners have any other thoughts. But in the meantime, our n nipple scale where we rate the

movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens. I think I'll go three with this one. I think there's lots of interesting things that we haven't seen before not only in this like specific werewolf subgenre of horror, but horror as a broader genre, because especially with teen girls and their sexuality, horror has such a sorted history with that concept. And this movie, you could argue, is playing into some of those specific tropes and then other reductive harmful tropes when it comes to bodies and sexuality and it's not really framing assault as assaults and things like that.

There's lots of stuff. But I like the read of if you take away the weird sexual politics of this movie, and it's just like a person getting their period at the same time they become a werewolf, that is almost the plot of turning red. It's just a different genre. So and I really like that movie. So I think it's just like the sexual politics of this movie being all over the place that kind of takes some of the nipple edge off. For me, it's also a very white movie and the only, I think, character of color is killed is the janitor who is brutally murdered. Correct. Yeah. And that murder feels like more long and drawn out

and like reveling in the violence of it more than other characters who get killed So that sucks. But yeah, I'll give it three nipples one goes to Ginger's monologue where she describes heterosex as It wasn't like I thought it would be there was all this squirming and squealing and then he's done and then you're like, oh there was all this squirming and squealing and then he's done and then you're like, oh, hilarious way to describe heterosex. I'll give my other second nipple to her calling Jason Jeff in that scene, which either the filmmakers didn't notice or it was just her not knowing what that guy's name was. Either way is pretty funny. And then I'll give my third nipple to Norman the dog. RIP.

I'm going to go a little higher on this one. I'm tempted to go closer to four. I think I'll go 3.75. Maybe a little too generous because I do agree that the sexual politics angle of this movie didn't super work for me for all of the reasons we discussed. But I also just have never seen a movie like this. I think that especially for its time, it's taking a lot of big swings and connecting

more often than not. I wish I had seen this movie when I was a teenager. I think I really would have loved it. And yeah, I mean, I think just like a really singularly good portrayal of codependent sisterhood, which is something that I've definitely experienced with my cousins and something that feels like, I mean, even when it's unbelievably toxic, you can still feel this intense love and this kind of trauma bond that can only exist between people who have grown up in a dysfunctional household.

And I just like more of that, please, with less of the messy sexual politics. And just like Olivia speaking to your point, I also viewed werewolf movies as kind of like a masculine sub genre that I didn't have much interest in. And this movie is a lot of things, but masculine is not one of them. So I'm going to go I think 3.75. I'm going to give one to Ginger, one to Bridget,

one to Karen Walton, and the remainder to that poor goalie whose dog died. remainder to that poor goalie whose dog died. Olivia, how about you? I would give this even more generous and complete bias because I did see this movie when I was a teenager and it meant a lot to me seeing the complicatedness of puberty, really, that I don't think, you know, because girls don't get to be angry without it being taken seriously. A lot of our intense emotions are just seen as frilly and this movie does not do that. So I would give it four nipples, maybe even close to four and a half.

But the reason I don't give it a full five is because of the sexual politics, because even this time around, every time with those sex scenes, it just feels icky. And I think I reconcile that with the notion of the closer you become to the monster, the more you lose your humanity. But even then, how necessary were they? And also a very white movie, you know, I get it's Canada. And I think when a lot of people think of Canada, they think of white people that there are so many other people who live in

Canada. There was no reason for this to be a completely all white cast aside from it just being 2000, right? Exactly. Or 1999 when they were filming and I would give one nipple to Ginger, one to Bridget, one to Pam. Every time I watch this movie, I love her even more. And then I'll give my last one to the janitor every time. His is so sad.

Oh, and I want to say one more thing, too. I've watched this movie several times. And now that I have more knowledge of just being older and being around more different people, I also got the trans read this time. It was really, it really came out stronger this time. So I love that every time you watch this movie, there's so many different layers to relate to and talk about. So I just am really appreciative that I got to come on here and

talk about a movie I love so much. Oh my gosh. We're so happy to have you come back anytime. Oh, thanks. Where can people follow you on social media? Is there anything else you'd like to plug? Yes, I am usually doing some fun stuff. I am in charge of the Native American Cultural Programming for Texas Native Health, which

is an Indian Health Services Clinic in Dallas. So if you're a Native creative, I'd love for you to reach out and see if we can bring you down to Texas. So you can follow me on Instagram at LivNative93 and it's the same on Twitter. Beautiful. It's always a joy to have you. Thank you. It's a joy to be on here. Y'all are so fun to talk to. And you can follow us on social media, especially Instagram. Ever heard of it? At Bechtelcast.

We've also got a little thing called a matri on okay. Ever heard? And that's at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast where you can get two bonus episodes every single month, always centering a brilliant genius theme that Jamie and I cook up. And this month, because it's spooky movie season, we are treating everybody with a little episode on Pearl and another little episode on the Exorcist. I am very, very, very excited. Two movies we've gotten a lot of requests for, especially Pearl, so be sure to check it out.

You can also get our merch over on teapublic.com slash The Bechdel Cast. Don't forget, it's never too late to get your Beano Juice Team Wet Scavs or Team Dry Scavs merch. And it's never too early to get your Baby Grinch, sexy Baby Grinch merch. So just things to consider. And with that, Caitlin, why don't we get our periods and become werewolves? Get our period and have that signal the beginning of the end. Wow, let's do it.

Okay, bye. Bye. The Bechtel cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voskrasensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo.

For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.bechtelcast. Hi, I'm Essie Kupp and I've spent my career interviewing people about politics, presidential elections and some really tough breaking news. But now I need a break and I think you do too. So on my new podcast, Off the Cup, I'll still be interviewing people,

usually famous and most likely my friends, but about life. You know, the stuff that consumes us when we're not consumed by politics. So come join me every Wednesday for some conversational self-care. Listen to Off the Cup on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Gianna Predenti.

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