The Bechdel Cast - Grease with Gracie Gillam

Episode Date: January 21, 2021

Pink Ladies Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Gracie Gillam are hopelessly devoted to talking about Grease!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @grace_phipps on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the bechdel cast tell me more tell me more is this the bechdel cast okay okay i like this you know i'll be i could be a i could be a greaser you could be you know it's the most the thing that frustrates me about the T-Birds is that they have such good outfits, but then they're just rampant misogynists. It's such a waste of a good outfit.

And they have the funniest voices. Yeah, they've got a lot going for them, and then it's all squandered. It's a waste of a powerful aesthetic. It's used for evil. It's true. Hello, and welcome to the Bechdelcast. My name is Caitlin Durante. My name is Jamie Loftus.

Sorry for totally bailing on the singing. You know, I'm used to it by now. Is that true? Have I bailed on you in song before? to it by now. Is that true? No, no, no, no. No, but I'm thinking, I'm thinking back to our recent Beauty and the Beast episode where you fully commit to the song. I was singing too much. I'm pissing my pants laughing the entire time. It's not good singing. So we are the Bechdel cast. We examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel cast we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point Jamie what is it the Bechdel test

what is it well since you asked the Bechdel test is a media metric invented by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test, that for our purposes requires that two characters with names of a marginalized gender speak to each other about something other than a man. Sounds like it should be easy enough. But a lot of things don't pass. And then some things that do pass, I'm not foreshadowing in any way,

some things that do pass are still like really not,owing in any way um some things that do pass are still like really uh really not it doesn't you know it doesn't vouch for content it's not a metric that vouches for content true what was the worst one what the all-time worst one is still she's all that right where it's like oh yeah claire duvall is like go, you should kill yourself. And Rachel Lee Cook's like, oh no. I forget how that goes. No, thank you. I don't remember. Well, we have an amazing guest today.

I'm so excited. We do. She's an actor. You know her from Z Nation and Teen Beach Movie, which is my favorite DCOM of all time. It's Gracie Gillillum hi everybody welcome welcome we're so excited to have you i'm so psyched to be here oh wow what so let's talk grease shall we i feel like your character in the teen beach movies is kind of like a greaser girl like a pink lady almost, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Definitely. Wow. It's all coming together. I went back and watched it and I was like, wait, it's all connected. It's all connected. And then, well, Teen Beach movie is really supposed to take place like the movie within a movie is more of a Frankie and Annette movie. And then Grease definitely has Frankie Avalon in it and then has a joke about Annette's tits. So it's pretty much the same movie as Teen Beach Movie.

Same energy. Same energy. Same energy. So apart from that, what is your relationship with Grease the movie, Grease the property in general? Tell us everything. Gre word uh grease is the word is the word is the word um grease is a vhs tape that i had growing up it's a movie my dad i think went out of his way to see three or four times in a theater wow i think it was serving me early outdated surface level feminism in a way that really I loved as a child. So I've seen this movie way more times than I could possibly count. And then my high school ended up doing Grease, even though it was a kind of a fancy artsy high school that wouldn't do a show like Grease.

But Governor Rick Perry was going to cut arts funding for the entire state of Texas. So we had to prove that we could make money during the spring. So we did Grease. That is so bleak. You're like forced to do Grease so that you can continue to get an arts education. Very chill. Go Rick Perry.

Very chill. It is how I got my first Hollywood agent is he saw me play Rizzo in Grease and gave me his business card after the show. What? You got discovered through Greece? Yeah, in Texas. It's a really old school kind of story. That's beautiful. And you played Rizzo. That's amazing. Yeah. He was like, here's my card, kid. And I was like, I have a 4.32 GPA. I'm going to college, guy. And then I didn't. Nice.

Love that. College is a scam. So, you know. Yeah. I have not seen Grease since I performed it my senior year of high school. Okay. So I, oh, sorry. I have rewatched it for this podcast.

I've watched it a few times within the span of a very few days. Whoa, that is like, that's like a very deep relationship with Greece. Like we can't follow that. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie, what's your pitiful history with it? It's nothing. No, it's, it's just less. My, my, my grandma had the VHS and she would make us watch like she's like two VHSs and one was Grease and one was Riverdance.

And so I would always choose Grease just kind of like because I didn't want to watch Riverdance. So I've seen I've seen the movie a bunch. But then I feel like I've seen so many community performances of it like my school didn't do it but like friends schools did it and like summer theater always would do grease and so I think I've seen the movie a ton and then like five or six different local productions and they're all mixed up in my head and yeah I think I think that's that's kind of it. I still, the music is still so goddamn catchy. Oh, I know. It's so good.

Yeah, Caitlin, what's your history with it? I didn't grow up with this movie. In fact, I'm not even sure, I might not have seen it until, so. It's kind of hard to know because it's so cultural, like, osmosis-y. For sure. And, like, the songs would play especially like summer nights and you're the one that i want and like maybe greased lightning and like some of the more popular songs devoted to you like there's so many that you're just like even if you haven't been within 10 feet of this

movie you know what it sounds like you know what that song those songs would like play at like school dances in our cafeteria in like junior high and stuff like that but i don't think i really saw i don't think i really saw the movie for the first time until honestly i don't i think i maybe like watched it once in college but then i re-watched it when we covered grease 2 which we have done on the podcast years ago with solomon geiorgio yes yeah you know for some reason we're like screw Grease we're gonna cover Grease 2 first and then we'll get to the first Grease four full years later

yes how it was intended so I really have little exposure to the movie itself but I know the characters like Danny Zuko and Sandy and rizzo like they're iconic characters the songs are iconic it was yeah very much just like a cultural osmosis thing it also was like re-released in theaters several times for different you know like anniversaries

and it's definitely like one of those like unkillable prop because there's like i was looking online to see because i remember there was like one of those like unkillable prop because there's like i was looking online to see because i remembered there was like one of those tv stage productions that starred vanessa hudgens a couple years ago as sandy can't say i watched it well because there was only one vanessa hudgens in it and it's like if you're not gonna have more than one vanessa hudgens in your movie why bother with don't waste my time she's doing one accent one accent per movie no thank you i just know she's capable of so much more and so i can't watch it um but then there's also like a new series a paramount series called greece rise of the pink ladies coming out like next year and then

there's another yes there's a prequel about the summer where they're loving and it's like it's very interesting to me because in like researching like where is i was like i don't know where greece discourse is i guess and it seems to be both like very like it is like not a hot take by any means to say like most of greece's plot points age exceptionally badly but then also they're still like making Greece stuff it's weird but also at the same by that same token I could see like by 1978 standards and like the stage production first went up and I think 71 I could see like some components of the story being like kind of progressive and maybe even like feminist for that time. Very second wavy. Yeah.

So, you know, it's it's it's nestled in an interesting place in history. And, yeah, we're we're still, you know, adapting it to prequels and spinoffs and all kinds of stuff. So I truly can't think of I'm like, what? Maybe it will be great. But I'm like, who cares about the summer where they're loving? I learned everything I needed to know in the first minute. I was on the beach. It was summer.

They were loving. That's all I needed to know. But what about those summer nights? Don't you want to know about the summer nights? You're right. I needed to know but what about those summer nights don't you want to know about the summer nights you're right I didn't know enough I only saw them during the day and that was right so I'm saying um well should I dive into the recap and we'll go from there yeah let's party okay so we are in the late 1950s. I think we are in California in the movie, although it's not fully specified.

I feel like the race at the end, they're like driving along the- The LA River. LA River, yeah. I think that I looked at, I know that the stage play takes place in Chicago, I think. Upstate New York. Oh, okay. It's supposed to be upstate New York, which is why everyone in the play is like pretty explicitly Italian.

Right. That makes so much more sense. Even Cha-Cha is like explicitly Italian. Yeah. It kind of, this is a horrible connection, but it kind of reminded me, because I thought they were in SoCal in this movie, but I wasn't sure. I also saw somewhere that it was supposed to be Delaware and I don't even know what Delaware looks like. So, uh, well, I Google,

I don't think it has a beach like that, but maybe they were vacationing the same place. Yeah. I, well, the, one of the writers of the stage production based it off of his high school in Chicago. Right. But yeah, for the, I don't, yeah, the movie, I Googled like, where does Grease the movie take place?

And then someone like California came up, but it was just because I think it was just shot in California. I don't. It looks like California, but they all sound like they have fifties New York accent. Right. It reminds me of Healy. This is a terrible connection, but it reminds me of Gili this is a terrible connection but it reminds me of Gili where it's like Ben Affleck's Grace have you seen Gili I haven't I'm sorry definitely

don't watch it but it stars like Ben Affleck it's another movie in that takes place in LA where like Ben Affleck has this like weird newsies accent the whole time we were like how is this possible he's wearing like a heavy coat the whole movie even though it's a hundred degrees he's wearing a leather coat he's has his hair all slicked back i'm larry gilly so well it's out of control um anyway so we are in an unclear location um but danny zucco that's john travolta of course and sandy is olivia newton john are teenagers who have just spent a romantic summer together at the beach but the romance has to come to an end because sandy has to go back to australia i love that i didn't realize that she is not Australian in the in the play. And

it's just because Olivia Newton-John couldn't do a passable like American accent. I love it. Yeah. And the play, it's a surprise that he is at that school because he lies about going to a private school to her over the summer. Oh, interesting. That's a more effective plot point. Yeah, she was going to go to the Catholic girl school, and he was going to go to the boys school or whatever. And they both end up at the public school because that's where he actually goes. So was he trying to like make him seem like a higher class, like a higher economic class than he is? And like less of a slut, I yeah uh-huh sure love it um first we cut to rydell high it's the first day of senior year for danny and his greaser friends who call themselves

the t-birds uh which also includes 35 years old it's there's it's been held back so much wow even watching this movie on in 380p on 2b i was like these these men are simply not 17 they are 40. nope especially who is like the word like one of the most misogynistic guy this is like not helpful but i think his name is sunny sunny sunny oh sunny the dog yeah first of all upsetting for me because i already live with a misogynist named sunny and it's my dog but that the guy who plays sunny especially i'm like you're a father like what are you how did you but then you're like oh he's a he's a good dancer that's a good dancer i think he's actually 31 in that movie although i agree that he looks 38 he's wow rough break rough break for sunny he's had a difficult life maybe um yeah well in addition to sunny there's kenicky

and putsy and duty they run with a group of girls called the pink ladies uh rizzo is the leader uh stalker channing plays this rendition of of rizzo gracie gillum has played an incredible version of rizzo we're just saying many icons have played this role yes um and then there's also jan marty and frenchie and frenchie introduces the pink ladies to sandy who ended up not going back to australia and who is instead going to high school at Rydell this year. But Danny and Sandy don't know yet that they are both at the same school. Then we get the summer night song where Danny tells the T-Birds about the girl he met over the summer and Sandy tells the pink ladies about the boy she met and that his name is Danny Zuko. And they're like, oh, oh no, scandal. Then at a football

game, the pink ladies are like, hey, Sandy, look who it is. And it's Danny. But Danny, because he's in front of his like tough guy friends, he feels that he can't be vulnerable and show his feelings for Sandy. So he plays it all cool and al aloof like he doesn't really care about her which of course hurts sandy's feelings and she runs off she loves sandy does be running off she runs off so many times she's just like exit left i can't handle this she is exiting the scene constantly there i liked that that was another fun like place where the whole australia thing um just sounds really bizarre where he's like how did you like how are you here i thought you were going back to australia wild i know um so sandy's very sad she has run off and to cheer her up frenchie invites sandy over to her house for like a pink

lady's sleepover but then they all just end up like mocking sandy for being like a goody two shoes and then the t-birds show up and then Rizzo goes off with Kaniki. And then they have unprotected sex in the back of his car. Meanwhile, Sandy is still sad about Danny being a jerk. So she sings a song about being hopelessly devoted to him. It's cute. I like the end where it's like the water and then you just see a John Travolta floating in the water.

And you're like, oh, that's nice. I love how she puts Marty's nice stationery into a kiddie pool and then just leaves it like an asshole. What a weird choice, Sandy. Someone had to clean that up, Sandy. And then she runs off

after that. She loves to run off. clean that up sandy yeah somebody has to clean it and then she runs off and then she runs she loves her she loves to run off it is stunning how many i should have counted she runs off so much i i think i have a pretty good count in the recap alone here but um so meanwhile so there's this other group there's like a rival group of greasers called the Scorpions. Which is just like a Jets and Sharks thing, right? Yeah, I think. I think maybe the Scorpions don't go to Rydell or something. I'm not totally sure. That's a sin. You can't not be going to Rydell. That's not good. Their leader is someone who I think is named Leo. I don't know if they even ever say his name in the

movie they call him crater face I think maybe that's his nickname anyway there's this guy who bangs up Kenickie's car so the t-birds have to fix up this car and this is when we get the grease lightning song which I think is also the name of the car. A lot of stuff around this that is pretty unclear for me, as you can tell. That dance sequence is still so good. And the outfits, though in the T-Birds, do the outfit change in Grease Lightning?

I'm like, where do I get a silver onesie for men? Like, I really want that. Something that I find fascinating about this type of movie featuring this type of character who are like these like macho, greaser, tough guys, the kind of like cognitive dissonance of them busting out into like choreographed songs with like these flashy outfits and they're dancing and they're singing. But it's like they're supposed to be these like tough masculine guys and like i just think that that dissonance is very funny

jets and sharks baby the best like that's like the most iconic like you like hyper masculinity in uh while also like effortlessly executing a dance right Right. Yeah. Very masculine combing of the hair. Yeah. You know how it's super manly to constantly be grooming yourself? Okay. So meanwhile, Danny goes and tries to apologize to Sandy for being all aloof like he was. But Sandy is like,

screw you. I'm dating Tom now, who is this football jock. So Danny starts to try to be a jock also to impress Sandy. And then we get this very long sequence where he tries a bunch of different sports and sucks at all of them. I did not remember that sequence at all. I honestly didn't remember because I think that there's so much like valid conversation but like a lot of conversation about how Sandy changes for Danny I forgot that he also tries to change everything about himself the tone of it's a little different but like it's I was like oh that's right huh okay I yeah I totally did not remember that that happens

does that happen in the play as well no you can't have that many costume changes in a play. Also, plays don't really have fun and game sections the way that movies do. And it's kind of a very literal fun and game section of this movie. Just playing a bunch of different games. It's just like John Travolta in a series of different pairs of shorts. Yeah. In the play, it's just like John Travolta in a series of different pairs of shorts. Yeah. And the play, it's just track. Yeah.

And there's kind of no metaphor for the long distance running that the coach kind of gives where you go like, oh, because he has to go long distance running because Sandy's a long game win. Oh, I didn't even catch that. That was a long distance metaphor. In the movie, it does the passage of time in a way that I didn't get until I watched this with my boyfriend. Because he was like, oh, because he's trying out for sports in season order. And so he starts off with like a fall sport.

And then he's in track. And that gets us to it being the spring dance about. So this is a year-long quest for him yeah yeah he like grows and changes actually for a long time if he's doing these different sports and that's our passage of time in the plot which is so bizarre because yeah like the the beginning of the movie it's their first day of school at the end of the movie it's like their graduation basically yeah but the movie seems like it takes place over the course of like a week so it's really more dissonance that i can't really wrap my head around but yeah so in the movie he does land on track which we don't even find out until the end but we see him kind

of like practicing track and sandy sees this and she is impressed because i guess she loves jocks i guess she loves athletes yeah also the other sorry so much of this movie is weird at this school like cheerleaders and jocks are like not cool or they're like less cool they're not cool by the greaser standards so they're not alt yeah right right it's like it's a alt kids running a high school never heard of it like pretty fascinating concept but can't relate well that's another i'm like are they like how popular are they is it just that we because we are following their story you know we're seeing it through their perspective so they they're like, oh, these must be like the cool kids around. But are they?

I don't know. I don't know. It seems like they rule the school with an iron fist. Maybe it's because they're, could be because they're 30 years old. Well, that's true because the cheerleader girl, I think, Patty. Yeah. Patty like is throwing herself at Danny Zuko. So yeah.

Yeah, and she wants Rizzo to think she's cool when she comes up to the lunch table and is trying to fit in with the... I think the pink ladies rule the school with an iron fist. Oh, I'll allow it. I mean, horny alt kids running the school as a concept, I like. Me too. Same.

So Sandy is now impressed with Danny again. And she's like, hey, there's this dance coming up. You should take me to it. And he's like, okay. But before that, Danny takes Sandy to this diner. But Danny is embarrassed because his friends are there. And things kind of fall apart for everyone. We also get the beauty school dropout song. embarrassed because his friends are there and things kind of fall apart for everyone we also

get the beauty school dropout song because there's a random subplot where frenchie has dropped out of high school to go to beauty school then the dance happens where the national bandstand tv show is there to televise this like dance competition and danny ends up winning the competition but it's by dancing with another girl cha-cha so sandy sees this dance with cha-cha and you'll never guess what she does she gets jealous and runs off so another very weird scene yeah then we cut to a drive-in movie theater and rizzo she thinks she might be pregnant. The whole school finds out about it in like 10 seconds. I think we're missing that Marty alludes to the host of the dance trying to drug her or successfully drug her.

Yeah. And it just gets brushed right over. Breezed right past. Yeah. And Fontaine put an aspirin in my drink. I was like, I don't think that was an aspirin. Like, we should maybe brush up and not brush up for that. Yeah. Everyone's like, ha ha.

There's so many things that people just like say in this movie. And then you're like, what? Is that going to come back? Like, that was really fucked up. And then it never comes back. No, it doesn't come back. They didn't think that was fucked up. They just thought that was a joke. was normal in 1978 i guess so so danny and sandy are also at the drive-in and danny gives her his class ring and then he tries to force himself on her and she

doesn't want that so she runs off again that's one of the running off that i'm very um i was like okay that's that's a good that's a good runoff sometimes when she runs away i'm like where are you going but then that time you're like oh that is you do run away yeah you do we also get a song here that i feel like is not very memorable i totally forgot about it it's yeah i mean it is like objectively watching that of like he forces himself on his girlfriend and then sings a whole song about like, why is she so mad at me? Why did you leave? It's when he's supposed to reflect and learn about his mistakes in the plot. Right.

For us to like him at the end. And instead he just complains about it. And he's like, what will they say Monday at school? And he obviously means like she left me. That's embarrassing. Not they saw me assault somebody and she screamed and ran away how embarrassing yeah like that that i told i had no recollection of that song and it is so jarring to listen to now because and it also sounds like at certain parts of like yeah he's kind of like blaming her for making him look bad he does he's it's not an

introspective song he's just like that song was wild baby yeah i sit and wonder yeah yeah it's like danny go home take a long hard look in the mirror and like figure your shit out yourself danny needs to work on himself and also that like men working on themselves in this movie means joining the track team it's like all right sure okay i guess uh okay so then we cut to the next day or what it might be the next day it might be five weeks later we're not sure whatever but um sandy tries to extend an olive branch to rizzo i think it's implied that she heard that rizzo might be pregnant so she's trying to reach out and rizzo's like i really like that yeah in between I was like oh I do I love Sandy I just

wish that she could stay the way she is she's a sweetheart she's very she's very quick to scare but she's but she's like such a sweet kind person I think she has scary parents it's implied by the movie and more explicitly implied by the play that she's pretty afraid of her parents. Oh, wow. I didn't pick up on that watching the movie. I don't know what she's going to do with all that hairspray at the end of the movie. Is she going to like have to shower at Frenchie's house and get in trouble for having wet hair? She's going to have to live a double life now.

Her parents were like, hey, you thought you were going back home to your home in australia too bad you live in the united states now in some city we don't know where we are okay so in the play i'm sorry to be in the play guy but in the play i want to know in the play sandy is going to go to the private christian school but then her dad gets in a fight with the nun lady there about her patent leather shoes, because the school is claiming that that means that people can see up her skirt because her shoes are too shiny. But her dad is obviously the kind of rageful person that can't take that criticism. And so pulled her from the school and sent her to public school. Interesting. Wow. Okay. See, I see i think like again it's like knowing

that framework helps you understand sandy a little bit better because in this movie it seems like she is just like that's just what she's like she's like kind of conservative and how she dresses and behaves and then everyone's like that sucks you to change. But it's like if there was a context, any context for like she is behaving that way out of reaction to something else and like wants to live in like a more sexually free way. That's that makes more sense. I don't know. Yeah. But the movie doesn't do that. The movie is her prude self is her true self.

And it makes no case against that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Damn. I did not know that she had a scary. I mean, that's. It's just mildly implied by the play, but it's definitely more present. Rageful parents.

Okay. So Sandy has kind of like extended an olive branch to Rizzo. And then Rizzo sings a song about how there are worse things that she could do. Then it is time for Thunder Road, which is a race between the T-Birds and the Scorpions. And Kaniki was supposed to race against the head scorpion guy, but he gets bonked on the head. So Danny has to race a classic jacket guy injury so danny races against the scorpion instead and sandy is there to watch she sees danny win and then she gets an idea which is an awful idea sandy gets a terrible awful idea a terrible idea she runs off to

execute this idea which is to change your makeup about herself yeah frenchie's there to help her and she basically changes her entire look and her entire personality and she shows up at the school carnival looking like a greaser girl all decked out in black leather and danny is like oh hubba hubba and he takes off his letterman cardigan i feel like that yes because he's wearing it like i didn't need to change i did forget that he showed up prepared to change everything about himself but then she shows up already having changed everything about herself and then he immediately is like fuck it we're both danny throws the cardigan forget about that shit right away never a discussion i was like well okay but but then it's like but then they're only ever like happy when they're themselves with each

other so i don't like how was that whole thing at the end necessary he liked he liked how she was exactly i don't it's yeah there's a lot to talk about there but so she shows up all completely different danny likes it they sing you're the one that i want to each other um and there's some other kind of denouement stuff like rizzo turns out not to be pregnant yeah rizzo shouts from a Ferris wheel. Turns out it was a false alarm! That was the most abrupt resolution to what was like a pretty large plot point. Yeah. Just kidding!

And he's like, woohoo! I'm going to make an honest woman out of you. Wait, does that happen in the play? Did you get to yell from a distance? There's definitely no Ferris wheel in the play. Did you get to yell from a distance? There's definitely no Ferris wheel in the play. And no, the ending is a little different. And it sort of isn't brought up that much, except for after they've sung and it's the end.

She's like, hey, can we go to the pharmacy? I think I'm getting my friend. And that's like the third to last or fourth to last line of the whole play. Oh, like her period? She's getting her period? Okay. Wild. Oh, all right.

But she doesn't know she isn't pregnant. Oh, okay. She just thinks that she's going to get her friend. Sometimes you feel it coming on, you know? Oh, yeah, for sure. But I don't know how you know that if you've never known what pregnancy feels like. Right. Hey, Kaniki, can we stop at the drugstore? I think I'm getting my friend. Kaniki puts an arm around her and all the kids smile and cheer for Rizzo. Frenchie, gee, the whole crowd's

together again. I could cry. Jan, gee, me too. Sandy, yeah, a-wop-bop-a-loo-bop. Curtain. Now that's plot resolution in the movie the last thing we see is danny and sandy flying into the sky in danny's flying convertible that's in the fantasy car because that's not what the real grease lightning looks like that's what it looks like in the fantasy. Yes. Do they all die?

Well, that's the best fan theory. Are we going to get into the fan theory? Oh, we could. Well, before we do that, that's the end of the movie. So let's take a quick break and then we will come right back to discuss. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now.

The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Best guess, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East.

That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhard in you. Oh my God, I would love it.

I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, my God. I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song?

Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Ludi. I'm not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous.

Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions, like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference

between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career. Without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So what do we want to talk about first? Wait, what is this fan theory? I would love to hear. I would love to hear the fan theories just to get things all heated up. Well, there's a really popular fan theory. Okay. up well there's a really popular fan theory okay that sandy dies in the beginning sequence and the whole thing is her coma dream until she finally properly dies at the end and then that's why there's the shot of the heavenly clouds so that theory being that when they get splashed

in the footage she actually drownss instead of him just lying about. Because he sings, saved her life, she nearly drowned. And so that fan theory takes Zuko's obvious lie about saving her life and says that's true. The whole thing makes sense and that's why they're singing because she's either been dead the whole time or is in a coma and then she dies at the end. God, wait. and that's why they're singing because she's either been dead the whole time or in a coma and then she dies at the end god wait that's fan theories always like scramble my brain because i'm like there's no way but then also it's like but what if i'm like but why is there a shot of them flying into the clouds then i don't know i did i did like i remember like especially when i was a kid i did not question it i was I was like, yeah, they're so happy. They're so happy.

She changed everything about herself and now a car can fly. Yeah. That's the power of women changing for people. Well, shall we talk about that? Because that is kind of one of the most glaring things. I mean, one of many glaring things of this movie. Yeah. And I think it's like the most popular criticism of the movie now too.

Right. Yeah. Because to me, so like a main arc of this movie is like Danny kind of being in this prison of his own toxic masculinity and like needing to learn that it's okay to be emotionally vulnerable and to like let his friends know that he cares about a girl watching him reach these conclusions and how he goes about doing that is like not handled the best but i was like okay like this movie it does have more of a commentary on toxic masculinity than I remembered so I was like okay yeah that

this is something but then he comes to this realization but it doesn't really matter because Sandy has just completely changed everything about herself for this guy and he is like okay great thanks for doing that we can be in love now it's really bizarre i feel like watching through it these like two times to get ready it was like i i think that like the popular criticism is like a little overly simplistic because caitlin you're right that like they it's just weird it's like this movie starts saying a lot of things and then kind of doesn't finish saying any of them and then at the end they're like actually the status quo was fine like it's just bizarre because it's like there were moments where you're like oh that seems like an intentional like this like hyper masculine life that danny's living is like affecting him

negatively and like he's not he's not his like most authentic self when he's like with the t-birds and it's clear that the movie wants you to think that way but then like in the back half of the movie they're kind of like but fuck it who cares like it's so weird it's but i feel like the conversation has started but then it's just like abandoned and it was what is like okay question for the group what is the like what is what are you supposed to think at the end of this movie like that was i was like right what's the takeaway being like what what was that movie about you know it's just everything he does that we are like oh danny why'd you do that stop that is like is because he's trying to maintain this persona maintain this like macho persona of toxic masculinity to like impress his

his guy friends his tough greaser boys and when he like very clearly wants to be able to be emotionally vulnerable and to like like he can be on the beach exactly although he does some fucked up stuff on the beach too or he's like that's true i'm gonna kiss you and she's like no danny don't spoil it you're ruining it yeah yeah only it's not spoiling it's only making it better yeah and it's like he forces himself onto her in the first scene in the first scene in the drive-in scene in many scenes um and there's a lot to talk about there yeah as well but yeah it's just the takeaway seems like true like either it just is like the takeaway seems just like and the status quo is fine the whole time and and it's and that's fine it's well. So one of the writers of the original production, Jim Jacobs, and I'm pulling this from our favorite scholarly journal, Wikipedia.

Incredible. And I wasn't able to find exactly where what this original quote was or what the original source was. So kind of take this with a grain of salt but according to wikipedia if you look at the greece uh musical page it says that jacobs has described the stage production's basic plot as a subversion of common tropes of like 50s movies where in 50s movies like the female lead would often kind of transform this alpha male into a more sympathetic and sensitive character so jim jacobs was trying to subvert that and make it so that like the story is not doing that and like he stays unsympathetic and she has to change to conform to his fantasies and to his desires it's and it's like why would you why would you subvert that like yeah it's it's kind of say like the movie

is saying slut shaming is bad you know what's good prude shaming right yeah right like it's just in like okay having the context of like that attempted inversion i feel like it's it's kind of follows the same logic of why a lot of these like all female reboots don't work is like let's just have let's just um gender swap this premise and then not resolve any of the harmful aspects of the premise, which it doesn't, it doesn't work. Like, and I guess it is like very second wave feminism to me to,

to have that kind of like rooted in sexual freedom and like not shaming women for having sex, but then also like outwardly shaming any woman who doesn't feel that way or like just assuming that, well, now every woman has to be extremely horny. And if you're not, like you're stuck in the past. You better have sex right now. Right. Or John Travolta will force it.

Yeah. It's also worth mentioning that Danny Zuko is an incredible slut shamer. And he seems to devalue anyone that he's already slept with. And we see that consistently. Yes. Like, we see him at school for the first time and he says, oh, same old broads everyone's made it with. Like, he dismisses them as unworthy because he's already slept with them. And he does that with Rizzo.

He does that with Cha-Cha. And it leaves me wondering how he's going to treat Sandy when he finally that with Rizzo he does that with Cha Cha and it leaves me wondering what how he's going to treat Sandy when he finally sleeps with her right and it seems like part of my okay so part of how I was reading his like determination to win her over was connected to like I think that there's just like a lot of madonna whore stuff going on here where part of why he's pursuing sandy so aggressively is because she will not have sex with him and like that and just like kind of yeah it's like a value in her exactly and where like he see he perceives her as this like oh if i can get this girl it's it's almost like the cruel intentions thing where

ryan philippe is aggressively pursuing reese weatherspoon because she's this like ultra virgin type and like that's why he's interested in her because like she like she'll never give it up but if he can manage to do it then he's like the god like at the king of the world kind of thing not to quote titanic of course but let's leave titanic a perfect movie out of this I feel like I mean we have no choice but to assume that that's what Danny sees in Sandy because so little there's like zero time spent in the movie showing why they like each other or what is compatible about them so like that's just what I assume that that was another like point that i felt like the movie

started to make and then completely abandoned was that double standard because the movie seems aware like very aware of the double standard of how sexually active like teen boys and sexually active teen girls are treated very differently and that's mostly through iconic Grace character Rizzo, where it's like Rizzo is like that character where you get that split most clearly demonstrated to you where, you know, it's like she thinks that she's pregnant and like is just kind of left completely to her own devices she's shamed for it she's cast out for it and the movie wants you to think like that's not okay that's not right but then it never it never resolves in any meaningful way she's they're like oh just kidding and we're not going to talk about the fact that you were ready to the whole school was you know ready to completely ostracize her if if it wasn't a false alarm or like right it's just bizarre yeah but there's another interesting thing happening there, too. She has unprotected sex with Kaniki. He finds out about her pregnancy, her pregnancy scare.

Sorry. She's. That's true. She's almost heavy with Greg. But he, I think, on maybe not unlike Dannyy but there's like i think an interesting comparison to be made between danny and kaniki where kaniki is like hey i heard you might be knocked up what can i do to help and she's like it's not even your problem right i wasn't expecting that either she's like it's not your problem. It was someone else's problem.

But she doesn't quite say that. Like, and she kind of uses it. She says it was don't worry about it, Knicky. It was somebody else's mistake. And I think that is sort of like I think Knicky kind of takes it as it's not his kid. But I think I think that Stalker Channing's subtext is, it was my mistake. I don't want your fucking help. Ah, yeah.

Because that line is different than the play. Interesting. I never thought for a second that she had sex with someone else and she thinks someone else might be the father. It's clear to me that he is the father if she is pregnant but she's more just like lashing out sort of thing but I found it interesting that like he was like I don't run away from my mistakes I like I'm gonna be here from you you know like we'll figure this out but she kind of dismisses him so he you know he runs off very sandy like he's like he almost like skips away he's like oh great no responsibilities another interesting thing about that is that um so a lot of the like these t-bird guys are all

about like how can i exert my masculinity how can i demonstrate my masculinity oh they're in prison they're in prison they're like but if they're like oh if i've like made it with a girl if i've had sex before that just shows how awesome i am which is like a very like standard thing right yeah but when we see him and rizzo kissing in the back seat of his car she's like do you have you know something for protection he pulls out a condom it immediately breaks because he's like i bought this in the seventh grade implying that he's never had sex before yeah so i mean i don't know there's just something fascinating to me about knicky where he is kind of like putting on this persona of like yeah i'm a greaser boy i'm a t-bird blah blah blah but he also is like he seems less concerned than Danny does about being emotionally attentive to

like to the girl he likes. Yeah. I mean, the bar is on the floor for these guys, but like, can Nikki is like, I guess he's definitely not the worst one. I got,

I totally forgot the whole like implication that that was his first time having sex too. And that's like another, like that's like starting something interesting of like oh there's some double standards at play here but then it's just like nothing happened right nothing gets resolved with that no but i do i mean it's like i love rizzo was my fave as a kid because she's cool and she smokes a cigarette and that is what being cool means um in a movie and even though i remember my mom being because my mom smokes cigarettes like a fiend um jill and she was she was like

that's what happened to me i started smoking cigarettes as a teenager just like rizzo and look at me now i'm a disaster you know so she was so she used Rizzo as an anti-smoking ad she's like oh Rizzo thought she was so cool but she wasn't Jamie um but I like I I really like how complex Rizzo is even though it feels like especially the movie doesn't take advantage of how complex her character is because she often even when people offer her help she it seems like I guess I'm curious maybe I'm reading too much into it but it just seems like she has like a lot of internalized shame and is like unable to accept help from others even when it's well intended and And like, she just seems to have like a lot. I don't know. Yeah, it seems like she holds a lot of shame. And that's why she pushes

Sandy away when Sandy offers to be her friend. That's why she pushes Koniki away. And I don't know, I feel like it's kind of rare in a teen musical to see a character with deep internalized shame. I wish it like went somewhere, but I just, yeah, Rizzo's interesting. There's one of the only things that we really know about Rizzo and Kaneki's relationship is that they're having a giant fight in front of their friends that is upsetting enough to Rizzo that she throws a milkshake at him. You know,

nothing about that fight. It never gets resolved. Daniel Day-Lewis, like, man, my milkshake. You man my milkshake you have my milkshake um yeah so we know that their relationship isn't perfect before she gets pregnant and then their problems are solved by her not being pregnant right and it still doesn't

i don't know like it's sandy is a saint for still being nice to Rizzo after how cruel like Rizzo is so mean to her all the time from the moment they meet but it's like I almost wanted more of like a moment of like understanding or reconciliation with them I guess they sort of have it there in that scene where Rizzo's like oh I will never accept help because of that's just who I am but thanks anyways but I mean it's like I can't it's just like an interesting plot point to have someone take out their frustrations on another teen girl um for something that they're insecure about in themselves because I feel like that happens in real life at times and it's like oh sure but you have to say something about you to i don't know right yeah there's sort of an absence of commentary yeah a lot of the time in a movie

that you would expect there to be more commentary i guess maybe not i don't know. Maybe my hopes are too high. I'm a Rizzo stan. I'm just like, Rizzo, people are reaching out to you. Take someone's hand. But she isn't pregnant, so then her life is perfect. Yes, but then her life is perfect. Let's take another quick break and then we'll come back for your question. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know, we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week, we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful.

Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhard in you. Oh, my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing.

Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Ludi. Not hawk the slalom.

I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions. Like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed?

Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week, we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Sanner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career

without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, we're back. Well, to kind of just continue a little bit on that Rizzo conversation, she sort of almost uses Sandy. She's like trying to get back at Danny, I think, for kind of leaving her high and dry sort of thing. And she knows that Danny's going to react the way he reacts

at that football game bonfire thing. I just feel so bad for Sandy because she's using her as a pawn. And then there's also this component with that Patti Simcox popular girl cheerleader character where Rizzo's like using her as a as a pawn and then there's also this like component with that patty simcox like popular girl cheerleader character where rizzo's like oh i'm this is what the other girls are like and i'm not like the other she's not like other girls that's and that's not like other girls and that that plays in to what to me is like this this movie sort of like an encapsulation of like white 50s like suburban americana where there are these archetypes that we see of teenage boys and teenage girls where we have of the boys there's like the greaser type the jocks who we see in like tom

and then there's like the nerd type because there's this eugene character who like kind of comes and goes yeah and then with the girls we have um kind of the greaser girls who don't have a hobby of their own they're not actually fixing up cars the way the boy the greaser boys are but they just like run with that crowd like the the pink ladies yeah oh okay i guess they're not like greaser girls but it's like they don't get greasy right but they run with that crowd but they rat their hair so they're they're right they seem to like i mean it's like it's kind of framed that they they're they exist because they're friends but also just kind of to date the t-birds right like that's just kind of what

that's why they unionized i don't know right did they unionize uh i well they do wear their own merch so that's true that's true they at least have a t-public yes and so do the t-birds um but yeah that i was like oh like they hang with the greaser boys who have this hobby of like fixing up old cars but what are the girls what's their hobby anyway then we've got like the patty simcox like cheerleader girl and then we've got like the goody two shoes type which is sandy so there's all these archetypes which fit into this perception that I think still exists today of like the 50s. It was this the good old days, you know, everyone. Poodle skirts, milkshake.

Yeah, everyone, you know, married couples didn't slept in different beds. No one had sex and everything was hunky dory. And like Grease shows a different side of this like common misconception i think the movie sort of seeks in the in the play like seeks to be like hey no like teens have always been this way like you know they get into trouble they have sex they're horny they're you know doing all that stuff but it's also like grease is still preserving this idea of like white 50s middle class americana and it like does nothing to like challenge that status quo there's just like yeah one like the fact that this is like it comes out in 78 it's about 1958 so it's already a period

piece and it's like i don't know just even writing wise, if you're going to make a period piece, then you should probably try to say something about the time that you're not just be like, and everything was way better 20 years ago. Like, there's just even though it's like the the idea of the 50s is very clearly represented here, there's no commentary on it, really. Like, there's nothing being, I don't know. Like, it just, again, it's like, well, why does this movie take place in the 50s? Why is it important that it does?

Is there anything about this culture that is like, it's just really bizarre. And then, yeah, the romanticizing of the 50s in particular I mean most romanticizing the past is just like 10 miles a bad road but um but like the 50s in particular it was like a like uniquely oppressive time in the U.S. for like anyone who wasn't Danny Zuko basically like it's very like in 1958 high schools were mostly not even integrated right and women were like being encouraged to stay at home and not have jobs like it was worse than 10 years before in like McCarthy era was also yeah it was like incredibly like restrictive time. But the fat but the but the looks were good.

And so that and we all like milkshakes. So, you know, there's a little push and pull there. But it's like I romanticizing the 50s is always I don't know, I can't I can't get there. But also, I guess, you know, people seeing this movie in 1978 may have been alive for it um and but they're like what like what is the thing they're like oh remember when women couldn't have jobs and schools were still segregated i'm like that huh why so apparently this play got written at a time at the very beginning of there being this 50s fanaticism in the 70s and i don't know how the writers in particular felt about it but definitely the 70s became hugely pop the 50s became hugely popular in the 70s i think sort of as a reaction to how socially liberal the 70s were becoming right and that's where the it came from also the the show was written without music and right after

somebody with a good sense read it was like this maybe needs something maybe needs a little more than this plot i've definitely never seen a non-musical stage version of it no i don't think it got very far before they put music in it that That's so interesting. Yeah, I had no idea. Well, and I haven't read or seen, I don't think, any stage versions of this. The stage version that premiered had music in it. Got it. But it was originally written without it. Got it. Oh, so like before it was brought to Broadway.

Yeah. Got it. Okay. I have the, I've read, and Gracie, you can speak to this better than I can having just reread it. But like, I've read that the movie is like a pretty sanitized version of the play where the play does seem to attempt to touch on more kind of social issues and like some class stuff and like more about like teen sexuality and maybe in a more meaningful way maybe not I'm not sure but I think one of the main criticisms of

the movie was that it was a kind of watered down version in terms of its like social commentary got it of the of the stage production they definitely in the movie took away moments of danny actually being nice to her that exists in the play and they also took away sandy sticking up for herself when when rizzo sings look at me i'm sandra d and the diner sandy walks in on it and literally attacks rizzo and the boys have to pull the two apart and then they try to fight again and they have to be pulled apart again so Sandy's willing to beat somebody up about her emotions and that is very absent in the film yeah all stuff that would have been great yeah it's like because we we don't see him be very nice to her in this like it's truly only like

moments of a couple of seconds and never when anyone is looking which is like well it's also never when anyone is looking in the play he's only nice to her in private but he says more things that are nice so like oh that i mean again i have to keep reminding myself that this like this came out over 40 years ago It is about a time period that's like 60 years ago. You know, but like, I'm just like, why did they end up together? Why did Sandy just like put up with this horrible? He mistreated her so much the entire story. And then she's like, well, I better change everything about myself so that he'll like me.

And then maybe he'll treat me better, but probably not. He does stop touching her. He does. He doesn't touch her without her initiating it during you're the one that I want. So she had to change everything about herself so that she, that was what made him respect consent was her changing her entire personality.

She had to dress up like a literal dominatrix with tight leather pants in order for him to listen when she's like don't fucking touch me yeah yeah it's it it's tough it's tough there and i get and i get like i like their romance is very simple and for like the kind of movie it is like most i don't know, I don't even mind a movie musical couple being like pretty simple and just being told like they like each other. And like, I don't really care that much about that. It's just the fact that we only see him be not nice to her and then her have to and anytime she acts in like quote-unquote defiance towards him anytime she just does her own thing or like goes and dates tom goes in immediately gets on the cheerleading squad at a new school what what an amazing life um even though she's pretty bad she sucks she's

yeah but i was like oh wow she's really struggling to fit in just kidding she's immediately the most popular girl at school um but yeah just the the fact that we never see him treat her well i don't know this movie's so weird but i like all the music so much um but it does i feel like it is even if even though it's a very simple relationship and we're just told they like each other how they were at the beginning of the movie. If we're taking that at face value that the way the movie plays out is still kind of makes no sense because he liked her when she was like a very passive sweetheart at the beginning of the movie. But then she's like now I'm a dominatrix and he's's like, actually, I like this. I'm like, I don't think you like her. Right. Well, it's like now that my friends are around and we're wearing the same outfit,

now they can respect that I like you, Sandy. So it's fine if I show that I like you. I just like I don't follow the logic at all. Yeah, right when you're about to not be in that social situation too right right right when it doesn't matter anymore they're graduating but no they're they're like double down at the end they're like we're never gonna leave our hometowns ever we're always gonna we're gonna which is like fine but also just a very aggressive ending message to the movie. Okay. Isolating the music and taking it away.

Because to me, they're like the song and dance numbers. And this is coming from someone who doesn't like musicals generally. Those are the best parts of this movie. If you take those away and just like examine beat for beat the plot and like the different like character arcs and stuff like that, this movie makes no fucking sense. And it's like, it's a badly written story just like there's no lesson that anyone really learns there's no growth demonstrated which is so weird because there's so many

characters who are like edging on learning a lesson and then they just don't right yeah like you said like it seems like things are being set up for again like yeah the setup of like danny zuko being a prisoner of his own toxic masculinity and like it seems like he's gonna have to learn how to break out of that and like grow past that and then it just doesn't happen and he just keeps like forcing himself on sandy and mistreating her throughout the entire story and then complaining when she doesn't respond and be like stop embarrassing me like it's bad or frenchie is going to choose her own life path but then an angel comes and is mean to her so then she goes and graduates high school,

which it seems almost like the theme is going to be anybody can pass high school because that's set on the announcements at a crucial time. And it's like sort of reinstated, like stay in class, you can pass. And then that doesn't really seem to end up being meaningful. I felt like I felt for Frenchie has such an incomplete story but i i like frenchie i like that she's like trying to do her own thing she's trying to figure herself out then she fails once and frankie avalon so mean to her he's just like you suck great outfit though no customer would go to you unless she was a hooker

like which is again i was just like yeah yikes that that line yikes that line a disaster and then on top first of all um i know it wasn't of the time but i thought frenchie's hair was cute but the pink the pink i was like okay you just have to move to 2021 and you're gonna be the most popular girl you're gonna be the most popular 30 year old in school. But even in that song, I feel like it's implied in one of the lyrics that she should go back to graduate high school and then not get a job and kind of be a housewife. Where he basically says like, you're not cut out for a job. So go finish high school. He first says, go finish high school he first says

go finish high school and you can join the steno pool he's like you can't be a hairdresser but you could be a stenographer but then later he implies that she couldn't hold a job and she's just not cut out for it it's so sad every time that scene the way that that song is set up at least in the movie i always you always think that the older waitress is going to be singing to frenchie and that she's going to end up being the fairy godmother if i ever say to this show i'm stealing that idea that's so good i always like because it's always she was like well i don't know i was like oh she's about to turn around in and it's going to be sequins and she's gonna tell frenchie how she's made it in

her life and then but then it's just like oh no here's here's going to tell Frenchie how she's made it in her life. And then but that is just like, oh, no, here's here's a character we've never met and we never see again. Telling her she could never hold a job. Oh, I know. Poor Frenchie. There's also I mean, we touched on this, but the one of the other pink ladies, Marty, we touched on how an adult man preys on her and apparently tries to roofie her and that just gets completely blown past and played off as a joke and the play he is scripted as going around the dance feeling people up oh that is a part of the stage directions in the

play is that he's like watching people dance and then he is occasionally like copying a few. I can pull it up. I dog-eared it. Horrifying. It's funny. Sexual violence from old people is funny. Hilarious. It's funny to assault women. It's so weird because it's like in 1978

or they like, it was a simpler time. I'm like, I'm pretty sure people were also doing that in 1978. So maybe it was just a continuation. His hands slither down and rub one of the girls across the ass or nonchalantly trying to quote cop a feel is in the stage directions yikes uh well interesting note on marty in the play she is explicitly engaged to the marine and then she has a song about it okay and then they've changed it in the movie so that she's in pen pal relationships with lots and lots of men which is more of a comedic beat and not a song beat and has also been used i read and watched a few arguments as to why this is a highly feminist film and one of the points that is made is that these women

don't seem interested in domesticity or having babies or getting married which is less true in the play because marty is engaged sure and i guess she seems like a little bit more like she's living an exciting life because she has multiple men in her life that are across the sea yeah but it doesn't seem like they have career interests either so i don't really think that that argument has a leg to stand on i think it makes sense to me in like the framework of like what second wave feminism seemed to mostly be where it's like still very like it i feel like second wave feminism in particular kind of really enables a lot of rape culture. It kind of does, yeah.

Because it's like it rejects domesticity. It encourages women to, you know, at least on paper, like have sex with whoever they want and like get a job if you want, like have more freedom but in a way that almost like endorses all this gross behavior from men and framing it as like no women are allowed to enjoy it you don't have to pretend that you don't like it because you're a prude and it's like almost I don't know it's such a mess I'm telling you I don't like it yeah exactly I'm like but what if if, uh, what if you meant it? Like, um, there's also like a, during that beat when she's like, oh, I like I'm dating a Marine and a whole bunch of other guys too. She puts on this robe and she's like, yeah, Bobby got it for me in Korea. And then I forget which one it is, but someone's like, you're not dating a Korean, are you?

And she's like, no, he's a Marine. So it's like, of course I'm not dating a korean are you and she's like no he's a marine so it's like of course i'm not dating a korean you stupid oh right i was like okay so there's there's like yeah there's that racist joke there was like the like little homophobic moment at the dance all couples once the girl do i'm looking at you eugene yeah whatever yeah and then there's just like a ton of i mean and again this is like the most basic criticism of greece i don't even want to like harp on it but like the amount of like rape culture in this movie is so wild it's like that's that's all of the t-birdsirds, just like their character. It's barely worth mentioning, but like the, I mean, it is worth mentioning, but it's like,

this has been already mentioned a million times by a million people, but like the lyric, did she put up a fight? And it's like, oh yeah, that's like, oh God, the debate. I mean, it's like, at this point it's like, yeah, that's rave culture. I don't know why it's an argument. There are certain like arguments that people are never sick of having that it's like can we just can we just put it to rest it's obviously a very rapey line and um i don't like what's the argument right oh well

but yeah all the t-birds i mean that all the t-birds are in a prison that they have constructed the society is really constructive for them well like again there's a moment that i'm like oh this this could be fun or there's could there could have been more commentary on this where kenicky is trying to ask danny zuko if he'll be his like driving buddy or so i don't even know what he's like you'll will you be my second in command for the thunder borderline like a romantic moment only sort of makes sense what's happening yeah i don't know what he's asking but he's basically just like will you be there for me bro and will you be my second yeah at thunder road it's like do you want me to be in the passenger seat like what are you asking

anyway i'm so glad you also didn't understand that because i was like because danny zico like reacts so he's so thrilled i'm like what but what was the question does that mean you'll fill in for me in case i get my head bonked by a car door and i'm unwilling to race is that what he's preparing for i guess like can you be my understudy so weird right because like danny doesn't even know what he's asking at first either but then he's like oh yeah yeah oh and then they like so once you realize they hug and get embarrassed yeah they hug and then there's like this nice tender moment of like platonic male friendship and then they realize what they're doing and that they're like you know greaser guy friends are also right there watching so then they pull apart they start like you know combing back slicking back

their hair and like resuming their like you know macho persona and i'm like can't we talk more about that like why can't the movie explore that more and then but it's just like this fleeting moment they legally cannot explore they cannot male friendship i wanted to go back to the pink ladies, to Jan. Yes. Because there's a strange thing happening there. And I didn't even realize what was happening until like halfway through the movie. So basically there's a scene at the diner where she starts talking to one of the T-Birds. And I truly have no idea which one it is.

Putsy. Putsy. The blonde guy, right? Whose character is roger in the play and roger is also supposed to be fat so there's supposed to be two fat characters and then the movie there's one fat character and no fat actors and actually no fat actors yeah that was so confusing i okay so what so basically what happens here is that jam is talking to putsy and they start kind of like flirting and connecting and putsy's like i've

always seen you as more than just fat and she's like oh thanks and you're just like what what did what what are you talking about because jan that actor is not fat not fat the actor is not fat but then when i went back and re-watched the movie i realized that she is apparently supposed to be coded as fat because she is wearing baggy clothes and she's always eating yeah which is i didn't notice that on the first watch and then like had to rewind when it hit that point i was like what was this signal to us in any way but it is it is in the way that they like like you're like in the way that she is eating sometimes because right because like if you're fat you're always eating that's what the movie which is like the laziest plot point in the book also the fact that in the play they were that whole implication that

like fat people can only date other fat people like that's another exhausting like oh yeah there's 300 times more jokes so oh no yeah it's it's pretty bad i guess i'm glad that those aren't included like in the movie it was just very jarring especially especially because then it's like the sad thing where she when they say explicitly that this is supposed to be a fat character and then you're like huh and then she implies that she's been like starving herself and she's been like dieting and that now that she's dieting a boy likes her like you're just like fuck and then at the very end when there's like the whole like carnival dance sequence she's in like a form-fitting dress and i think it's the implication is oh she's lost weight.

I think that that's how the actor looks the entire movie. That's just how she's always looked the whole time. I was just like, I could not even begin to wrap my head around what the intention was of any of that. But I was like, I think the movie's trying to tell us that this character is supposed to be fat, even the actor is thin but we're supposed to think she's fat because she's eating all the time i was just like what choice is this i was so confused yeah that was a very confusing plot point to take in i mean that's i vaguely now that you say that there's more jokes in this stage show that kind of rings a bell to like productions of it i've seen before which is also just like especially when you're like often casting kids in that show incredibly

cruel and fucked up to do yikes um that was weird i thought her like i i didn't know because i was like there are all these like stock characters and there's a wide. I'm like the most I can kind of say for like there are different types of women in this movie, but it's just kind of like a lot of different types of female stock characters. Yeah, it's archetypes. It's not there's a wide, wide range of archetypes presented in this movie i thought that she was i at first i was like jan is a i i went a different direction like oh she's wearing glasses so the movie wants me to think that she likes school but apparently that's not what i was supposed to think no oh wait no i think it's marty that wears glasses does she who wears glasses marty oh she has the horn-rimmed glasses at the

beginning yeah she has glasses in the first scene so i was like got it books but i was wrong outsmarted by a different fucked up thing don't they make me look smarter no i can still see your face yeah yeah oh boy hey here's something though the mechanic at their school who helps knicky fix up his car is a woman yay mrs murdoch so we're supposed to think she's the shop teacher i guess i think so yeah she gets a matching outfit but that's not a role that a woman would traditionally play as like a shop teacher, like an auto mechanic, especially during that time. So I was like, OK, that's something. Yeah, that's something. That's something.

I liked her outfit. I just I love all the outfits. All the outfits. Cannot argue with them um i just have a couple other really quick just again like the promotion of rape culture that this movie likes to do uh that i'll gloss over really quickly um there's the i think it's which i forget which t-bird it is again they all just sort of blend together for me but one of them is like looking up a girl's skirt on the bleachers and like one of his friends

does the absolute bare minimum to like stop him and call him out on it but it's to embarrass putsy it's not to stop it from happening it's to embarrass him okay because you got caught yeah yep okay that makes more sense like hey high five um and then there's also a moment where it's like during or after the summer night song where Sandy has said how great this boy was that she met. And then Rizzo says, oh, you know, this is supposed to be true love, but he didn't even lay a hand on you. Sounds like a creep. Sounds like a man isn't throwing himself on you and assaulting you constantly, he must not like you. is kind of like what is supposed to make this movie feminist for its time is like oh they're not prudes so therefore like that's feminist when you're like no this could actually be encouraging some pretty like harmful it's so i don't know summer nights is the wildest song of all time

because it's so catchy and i love it so much but it's like they're just it's just like people singing in this like cell of gender normativity that they've created yipes yeah well does anyone have any other thoughts should we talk about cha-cha

our only cha-cha-cha she's not explicitly a character of color in the play. Okay. But then she's kind of our only character. Like, that's our only speaking character of color, I think. I thought she's Italian. Oh, she's supposed to be Italian in the movie, too?

I think, based on the last name. I read a whole bunch of criticism about her character from that standpoint. OK. Yeah. Because I know that the actor who played Cha-Cha is Mexican-Italian. Yeah. I'd like to know more about the criticism around it, because that whole I mean, the way that that character is treated at every stage is I mean, she shows up. She is immediately a villain. She's one of um you know Danny Zuko's discarded women but what what is what is some of the criticism around around that Ben you know it was it wasn't like a super in-depth article but it was pretty much just you know they they refer to her um I forget which is the plane which is the movie but they refer to her chest hair at one

point and the play they call her a gorilla that happens in the movie where like she gives because she's like sort of dating crater face yes sometimes i think and she like pulls a little necklace out of her like cleavage or something like that and gives her like a little charm or something and gives it to him and then one of the pink ladies is like oh she just pulled chest gave him some chest hair or something like that oh i missed that line that's yeah horrible yeah it's it's worse in the play but um we could talk a little bit if we want to about women are kind of mean to each other like for it being an explicit click and group there is not a lot of supporting each other's wants and needs going on even among the pink ladies they're all yeah especially mean to each

other like and they're supposed to be friends they're pretty mean to each other marty doesn't keep her secret and like even like the principal is really mean to the office administrator oh yeah yeah i had i had a few notes about that as well where it was like there is no support within this group that we're being presented as like oh look at like visually they're presented as being very close with each other but they can't talk to each other like rizzo is like kind of drowning in her own like shame and insecurity and she can't communicate honestly with anybody Frenchie doesn't tell anyone that she's dropping out of beauty school because I guess she doesn't like trust her friends enough to share that information she only shares it with a waitress who immediately leaves the scene like that made me sad I was like wow no one has like

everyone is very isolated for a group that we're supposed to be like rooting for as best friends like that's and and then and then sandy too where they immediately except for frenchie who doesn't really who does who also joins in to bully sandy when it's convenient but they immediately isolate sandy as well and it's again it's like there there is there's not even really an attempt at a comment on it where there's no yeah there's just never any resolution like it's just like and that's just the way things are women get jealous of each other and they're catty and they're mean and that's just what they're like and meanwhile men are horny and it's like yeah we got it yeah with with with no attempts to even try to explore

like what the context for any of that might be or like it's it's the thing we talk about all the time where it's like men have seen women being mean to each other they can't imagine why that would be but they've noticed it so they're like well women are just mean to each other. They can't imagine why that would be, but they've noticed it. So they're like, well, women are just mean to each other. And like, not stopping to think for a second that it might be because our patriarchal society means that women have to compete with each other for the very limited resources and opportunities that are ever allotted to women. But men are just like, nah nah it's probably because women hate each other because they're all petty right which like this movie would be i think like able to tackle

if it wanted to like i don't mind seeing like teen girls in conflict with each other there's a lot of movies that do that very well and like have it make sense and you understand the argument and like but this is this one just just presents it as like this is just what happens yeah makes me sad they're all so alone like they really are so like in terms of like emotionally and like who they're able to open up to i can't even really think of two characters that I'm like, oh, there's a strong bond of trust and affection between these characters. Like no one can be their authentic self with anyone else in the entire movie. It's really – now I feel sad.

It is sad. It's trying to be critical of a world in which everyone is so busy performing their assigned genders and fitting into society that look at these cool people. They're on the outskirts of society and they aren't doing that. But they're also busy performing their alternative versions of gender identity that they are doing the exact same thing as their peers. Right. Exactly. It's really depressing.

I was like, God, boomers are so they're hurting so much yeah yeah like I just no one can be themselves in this movie because everyone is so so focused on performing for each other and rejecting people for arbitrary reasons and And I understand that that's like a pretty authentic adolescent experience for a lot of teens, especially like in the 70s, especially in the 50s. You know, like, again, I keep having to remind myself, like, this was all stuff from decades and decades ago, and therefore we can't have high hopes for it but sure if you're gonna explore the like turmoil and pain that like a teen goes through with like trying to figure out their identity and like behaviors that manifest because of like their internalized misogyny or because of their you

know the prison of their toxic masculinity like then, then, again, I think the bottom line for this movie is, like, it starts to try to make some arguments or, like, make some commentary, but never, there's, like, absolutely no follow through. Yeah. Ram-a-lam-a-lam-a, ga-ding-ga-ding-ga-da. Da-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. That's how it gets solved in the end. Yeah.

A-boogity-boogity-boogity-boogity-she-ba-do-wa-ba-da-wa. that's how it gets solved in the end yeah hell like hell it's everyone is so trapped except i mean if i was sandy i would be thrilled to be you know flying into the sun and burning to a crisp like at that point sure why not clearly no one here is gonna ever learn a goddamn thing i do like when when frenchie is like men are rats no they're fleas on rats no they're amoebas on fleas on rats and then she says the only girl a guy can get depend on is her daddy and i'm like the only man a girl can depend on is her daddy which no thank you i'm glad she at least has a good relationship with her dad yeah i don't know maybe she can have an emotionally honest but apparently she can't because she didn't tell him that you know about the whole beauty school thing she only tells that she has to like frenchie has to make someone up to have a conversation with anyone.

And that person also bullies her. Maybe, yeah, maybe Frankie Avalon is her dad. Oh, and he, yeah, but he hates her. He has so many children, it's probably true. I know I'm supposed to know who Frankie Avalon is, but I truly have no idea. It's okay. Thank you so much. He's not in the best early 1960s beach riding movies.

Like, if I was to recommend one, I would say watch Pajama Party. Okay. His characters also really mean in those movies. Like, you're supposed to like him and want him to be with Annette, but he's an asshole in all of the movies he's in. He's terrible. God damn it. Well, men are rats.

They're fleas on rats. No, they're amoebas on fleas on rats. There's one theory that I wanted to bring up. And that's the interpretation that the reason Rizzo is so glib about her pregnancy being a false alarm is that that isn't what happened. And, you know, she kind of, she has a line. The movie is so different than the play. But she has a line after Patty runs by giggling at her and Sandy tries to be nice and she's like,

you think I don't know what people are saying about me. Right. And that could be just that she's pregnant, but then she, I don't know. I think that's a fun interpretation. I think it's an interpretation that has sort of been concocted after the fact to try to make it seem like a more feminist movie than the filmmakers intended for it to be. Like, i don't think that that's the movie's intent is that she had an

abortion right but if you watch it with that in mind you're like oh yeah you could totally see that that's that's at least in the performance an option of interpretation and that does seem like something like that feels kind of aligned with Rizzo's character of like she deals with her problems on her own and she doesn't ask for any help or support that she might actually need. I mean, that's that's interesting. I kind of I mean, that plot point would make more sense than just being like, just kidding. Yeah. Well, she says she missed a period, which that seems severe. In the play, she's just five days late, which is not that big a deal.

Right. You could just be stressed. I missed a period. Yeah. It's a little different. And then she's like, turns out it was a false alarm and that could be a lie. I want Rizzo to be able to talk to someone that isn't via just bullying the girl closest to her. Rizzo's also trapped in this very strange pattern of behavior. Everyone is trapped. Toxic feminine toughness. Yeah, yeah. It is like she can only express herself by, listen, hurt people hurt people.

It really is true. Yeah, it's true. Rizzo, just yeah and then yeah it's like the women don't push back like it's weird it's like the pink ladies seem like aware that they know of the double standard of like girls are sluts if they have sex guys are amazing if they have sex but then they still slut shame each other anyways almost in a way that's like it strikes me as like a little coping mechanism of like well no one's ever gonna you know not slut shame us so let's also slut shame each other like right if you can't beat them i don't know i'm gonna sit these girls down oh let's yeah the last thing i wanted to bring up was just there's always this um when i was just

looking into like i was trying to look into like what does like a teenager right now think of greece it seems like for all of the many many many many reboots of greece that has happened that have happened it seems like teenagers kind of don't aren't very receptive to the movie now and they by and large are like yuck like i don't you know they have no nostalgic attachment to it um sure and don't seem that interested and so as recently as like a couple of days ago i guess the bbc like played grease on like one of their larger channels. And there was like this big Twitter backlash of like, stop showing this movie on TV. We hate it. Like, there was a really big, like everything about this is like misogynist and gross. And it scares me when there's only white people in a movie like teenagers do not like this movie. And good, like great for them.

But then there's still but they're still making a lot. So it's like, there's a little bit of dissonance there. And then Olivia Newton-John was asked to comment on this last year, which is like, well, this usually doesn't go well. Um, and, uh, it didn't, it didn't go that well. Yeah, she was asked by the guardian of like, you know, Greece has gotten all this feminist criticism over the years. What do you think? And she said, it's a movie.

It's a story from the 50s where things were different. Everyone forgets that at the end, he changes for her too. There's nothing deep in there about the me too movement i agree with that last part uh she said it's just a girl she said it's just a girl who loves a guy and she thinks if he if she does that he'll like her and he thinks if he does that she'll like him i think that's pretty real people do that for each other it was a fun love story i see what she's saying there of like it's a it's an extremely goofy movie oh boy don't take it too seriously but it's like it's such a famous i don't know i feel like that's like basic media literacy olivia if people are

beat over the head with the message of your movie, it's impactful. And so, yeah, she's fine. And I also there's there is like a lot written about how her career changed in a very Sandy ish way after Grease came out where she had written she had like done some she had released a couple of successful albums before Grease. But they were more kind of like, they just weren't like explicitly sexual songs. They were pretty like just pure songs about love, blah, blah, blah. And then after Grease came out, they kind of pivoted her image to be like really sexually driven. And so in the early 80s, there's like, let's get physical. And her next album is called Totally Hot. And like, her image was kind of pivoted in a in a

sandy-ish way hmm that's all i got a life imitating art maybe um does this movie pass the bechdel test it does it does yeah right near the beginning sandy asks frenchie do i look okay frenchie frenchie says sure you look good sandy says i'm really nervous you know and so frenchie says you look terrific yeah they like they have a i don't know i mean it's like there there was more exchanges between the girls in this movie that passed than i thought would they spend a lot of time talking about guys like a lot of time and then they also had they also talk a lot about just like a little more interesting like how they feel they're perceived by other people um but they usually are talking about how i don't know and then a lot of the passes are them

bullying each other so yes but they do like women are talking a lot in this movie more than I like remembered there being. There's a lot of conversations between women. It's just sometimes they're just bullying each other. Yeah. So, you know, not ideal, but they do talk to each other. Let's rate the movie on our nipple scale. Zero to five nipples based on an examination of intersectional feminism. I will have to give this, I think, like a point five. And again, like everyone's going to be like, but it came out a million years ago. Like you have to consider the historical context.

And yes, that is true. But I also feel like this movie started, like, it felt like it was equipped to, like, make some commentary. And if you're going to do, like, a 50s nostalgia story and you have hindsight of what the 50s were like and you you want to comment on that like we've said it feels like the movie feels equipped to make some of that commentary because it starts to and then it just completely bails on it halfway through or not even like it bails on it after like 20 minutes and then it's like well wouldn't it be fun if we just keep seeing Danny Zuko mistreating his love interest and then until she decides that it doesn't actually matter until she stops running away from him and then and then puts on some leather pants and changes

her entire personality and that's what enables them to be together question mark it's just yeah obviously it doesn't um hold up by our standards today i do see some of the arguments that it would have been perceived as yeah like second wave feminist at the time but uh thankfully we have moved past that and progressed beyond that at least a little bit. So, yeah, even with all the, you know, the historical context in mind, I have to give it a point five and I'll give my nipple to Rizzo. I feel like she was the most interesting and complex character and she deserves better and I wish we had gotten more from her and for her Stalker Channing is also so great I'm always I'm never not so jarred by how dirty she's done by that whoever illustrated the title credits make her look so just not how she looks they like make they shrink her mouth down to like five percent of its size and then they're like oh you know how

stalker channing has a tiny mouth and you're like i don't know that no no i don't know that very weird they also make sandy look like just a generic animated princess without any of her flaws caricatured at all. And like her face would be easy to do that too. It's not like she looks just like a far away drawing of Cinderella. Yeah. There is some animation choices in that beginning. As much as like I love the animation style of that sequence. But the way they draw some of the actors is questionable.

Yeah, I guess I'll go with 0.5 as well. I feel like the, I mean, I see the second wave feminism arguments there, but it also like ends up being like, oh, women are allowed to have sex now. They're still going to get shamed for it aggressively by each other and by everyone around them. And assaulted constantly. But I mean, after revisiting this movie, I feel like the hiss, even the fact that it's like a movie made about the 50s in the 70s,

that almost makes it like I view it a little like less well historically, because it's like a movie made in a more sexually liberal progressive time as nostalgia for when that wasn't true and in a way that is completely uncritical of that era so I just it's just all very weird um and it is definitely like extremely impactful to this day to the point where it's like Caitlin you don't even know if you've seen it because it's so like, maybe you have, maybe you haven't. It's so ingrained into American culture and also just kind of pedals this

like false image of what the fifties were, which were like not really a good time. While also trying to like not do that, but then like still doing that. I just, yeah, the, the, the period choices of it just are very weird. But the music slaps, the outfits are incredible. And they're like the performances are good. It's just, man, so much potential.

I like that they start saying things, but then there's also that definitely that vibe that we talk about sometimes of like uh man like an adult man desperately trying to write a teenage girl and completely like it was an attempt yeah yeah I don't know some half-formed thoughts uh but and I and it's still fun to watch I don't know but I'll give it a half nipple for our purposes. And also just, I mean, it, it goes without saying that literally at one point I was like, is this not an integrated high school in like canonically,

but there are, there are a few black students at the school, but it's, they don't even have lines, but it's so aggressively white that I don't even looked it up. I have mid medium shots. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not even to me. Yeah it's so aggressively white that I looked it up. They don't even have medium shots. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, not even a medium.

Yeah. So that's also, I mean, it's like, I understand where the teens are coming from. That's a very jarring thing to see and not have addressed in any way. I don't know. Romanticizing 1958 is just like a bad idea. So I'm going to give it a half a nipple and i'll i'll also give it to rizzo but i'll give it to vanessa hudgens's risk oh good grief gracie what about you rizzo to rizzo dig in sorry that was supposed to be a princess switched again play i'm gonna change

it i'm gonna give my half nipple to Rizzo, but Rizzo the rat, the Muppet. Oh my gosh. That's Rizzo the rat. Different Rizzo. My strategy is I'm going to give out some nipples and then I'm going to take some nipples away. I love this. I'm going to give

a nipple to the opening sequence because it's fabulous. I have this little addition subtraction thing i've written that involves taking away nipples for soccer channing's drawing but it adds up to the same amount and i'm gonna go past it okay um i'm gonna give a nipple to look at me i'm sandra d because out of the context of her making kind of making fun of a real person i think it is kind of a feminist moment uh at least the context of her making kind of making fun of a real person I think it is kind of a feminist moment uh at least the messaging of that song taken out of its context I'm gonna

take away a nipple for looping together Danny pressing himself on Sandy and I'm gonna take away a nipple from the t-birds showing Patty's panties to the camera. Yes, I forgot about that. Yeah, that's an assault we didn't touch on. That happened that we didn't even remember them all. Yep, that's bad. Yife. And whatever. I'm going to give it a nipple.

I'm going to give it a nipple. Give it a nipple. Hell yeah. I feel like if I give it less than a nipple, my dad will feel sad. Valid. Understood. a nipple give it a nipple hell yeah i feel like if i give it less than a nipple my dad will feel sad valid understood well gracie thank you so much for being here thank you for having me this is awesome what a fun summer night we've had um where can people follow you online and plug anything you'd like to plug um i am at gracie gillam g-r-a-c-i-e-g-i-l-l-a-m um i have a movie circling circling around on lifetime channel right now i don't know when

it's airing but it is uh called stolen in plain sight um you can look out for a movie called super host coming up pretty soon oh i'm looking for that yeah awesome thank you again so much for being here yeah you can follow us on twitter and instagram at bechtelcast you can go to our patreon aka matreon at patreon.com slash bechtelcast it's only five dollars a month and it gets you two bonus episodes plus the entire back catalog of our bonus episodes this month we're doing two amy oh wait what are we calling it she can do it all month what can't she do month it's doing two amy adams movies yes i'm gonna call it adams june oh okay adams june which of course we are observing in January so yeah Amy Adams drama arrival Jeremy

Renner okay and then Amy Adams comedy enchanted wow so so versatile I'm excited she can do it all and then our TeePublic store teepublic.com slash thebectlecast for all of your merch needs. And with that, let's get in the convertible. We're flying into the sun. Vroom vroom. Bye-bye. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers.

And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas.

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Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.