The Bechdel Cast - Hocus Pocus with Danielle Perez

Episode Date: October 26, 2017

Not only are Caitlin and Jamie podcasters, they are also spell-casters! Listen to this Hocus Pocus episode with special guest Danielle Perez or they will turn you into an eight-nippled cat!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast. Follow @DivaDelux on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. In California during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before, try to assassinate the president of the United States. One was the protege of Charles Manson.

26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer, this season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus, only on Apple Podcasts.

There's so much beauty in Mexican culture, like mariachis, delicious cuisine, and even lucha libre. Join us for the new podcast, Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of lucha libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE Superstar. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you stream podcasts. Hey, Bechdel cast. Hey, Bechdel cast listeners, it's me, Caitlin. And me, Jamie. And we're here to once again remind you about our new Patreon. That's right. We started a Patreon page, which if you haven't heard of it, is a subscription service that allows you to pledge us five bucks a month and gets you two count them two extra episodes of the Bechdelcast a month for patrons only what a damn good special that's a damn good

special fun Twin Peaks reference yeah and if if you're not subscribing to that you were I mean you're missing out like you'll still get access for free to our regular thursday episodes that's forever right uh but it's five bucks a month that's like one overpriced coffee beverage a month yeah just don't buy that from your life that's one tall boy pbr at an event you don't even want to be at it's two mike's hard lemonades it's that's i mean to be fair mike's hard lemonade it's very reasonably priced right so you can either i mean splurge treat yourself have two mics and subscribe to our patreon it's an amazing deal we want it helps us fund our show we so far have been putting our own money into the show and volunteering our time because we love you and we love the podcast.

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and we get to make more episodes. And just consider it. We'd appreciate it yeah thanks enjoy the hocus pocus episode the bechdel cast that's cough syrup which basically tastes the same as mike's hard lemonade true that's the line i have ready today i'm sick today today, and my name's Jamie. And my name's Caitlin, and this is the Bechdel cast. Hey, it's my turn. Oh, shit.

No, man. No, it's okay. You started it. Go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say it's the Bechdel cast, and it's our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. That's true. There's no getting around it. There's nothing else it could be about. God, what a day. What what a dramatic day so you're sick i'm sick i'm like and i'm like in a floaty phase of sick where i'm just like i'm googling kathy najimy anywhere and everywhere today i'm not sick but i mean physically emotionally and mentally i'm not doing great but who is is? Hey, you know. Who is right now? 2017 has been a trial.

A trial. You said it. There's two shows on television right now with Kevin in the title. We're all suffering. We're all suffering. What is it? Kevin Can Wait? Kevin Can Wait season two, which actually apparently is supposed to be kind of wild

because they kill off Kevin James' wife at the end of season of season one and then season two there's a time jump in there and it's like now he's dating leah rumini it's like oh it's just king of queens again but there and then the other one is called kevin save the world probably that's not exactly what it is but it's about something about it's a a white guy and they're like, you're God. Which is like, do we need to be perpetuating that? Probably not. Anyways, lots of Kevin-based entertainment. No, thanks.

I've said it before. Yes. Not a big fan of most Kevins. I'm sure there are exceptions. We as a nation don't respond well to Kevins. I don't know why they keep trying. Kevin Spacey's the worst actor available

at any given time. I liked him in Seven, but mostly because you don't see him for most of the movie. Anyway, let's talk about... Well, that didn't pass the Bechdel test at all. Oops. Allison Bechdel literally lifted it from us.

Let's introduce our guest. Let's do it. She is a member of Five Gap Comedy. She runs a show called Gentrification. She's a hilarious comedian, Danielle Perez. Hey, ladies. Welcome. Thanks for coming. Oh, man, that intro was intense. Well, yeah. There's a lot going on. There's a lot. There's a lot happening. We're all mentally ill. I don't want to project my mental illness onto everyone. I think we are. We're all dealing with PTSD in some way, shape, or form.

Very, very sick. The proliferance. Proliferance? Wow. There it is. Let's just quit. Lots of Kevins. That that is the thing that's too much and then the chris's like don't even pine pratt get out like we got it we got it you have nice

teeth more like hemsworth list there you go there you go there's another chris we don't need them chris come on chris's kevin's. Connelly's? Sit down. Who, Connelly's? No, Kevin Connelly. Kevin, who's that? Entourage, right? Another one? Yeah. Too many.

And I think his name was Chris. Oh, no, his name was E. No. Yeah, he plays E. I was like, I thought it was another C, and it was like, you know what? Eric, Eric, whatever the hell. See, hard C at the end.

The fact that I know any Entourage character makes me want to die. Kevin James, Kevin Costner. The worst Kevin of all time. Kevin Costner, you think? I hate Kevin Costner. Oh, I say Kevin. I say Spacey. I'm way more of a fan of Spacey.

Kevin Kline I like. Oh, I do like Kevin Kline. Kevin Kline and his daughter is like one of my favorite musicians. Wait, which one's Kevin Kline? Kevin Kline is the voice of Phoebus in A Hundred Bag of Notre Dame. Wow. Amongst other things. I know him from, he's

in Sophie's Choice. He's in A Fish Called Wanda. Good for him. Some other stuff. Let's talk about movies. Like specifically the one that we're supposed to be talking Anyways. Let's talk about movies. Oh, my gosh. Like, specifically the one that we're supposed to be talking about. It's spooky creaky door Halloween month. Ooh.

I'm going to make a jack-o'-lantern of Alfred Molina tonight. Of course you are. Spooky scary. I'm at my house with a fever. I shouldn't have a knife. You're like, this is the Halloween. We just end it all. We're done.

That's true. This is probably the last Halloween. So, well, this has been a depressing episode so far. Do you ever think about yourself this time last year and you're just like, who is that? Oh, my God. I was in such a better place last year. I was in a horrible place this time last year and somehow still better. Yeah, I was in Portland for a week and then I was in Minneapolis for a week. I was on the road.

Look at that. Oh wow, traveling. And now I'm just sleeping in my car because I gave someone a ride and then they put my wheelchair in the back seat and I was like oh well I can't get out of my car now

oh my god I'm sleeping in front of my house like a psycho why didn't you call someone because it was like one in the morning

I guess yeah that's true Caitlin's so irritated she's like we're very off track we're very off base I know that that's the vibe I'm giving off

hey what a time to talk about hocus pocus focus focus focus focus danielle what's your relationship your history with this movie i liked it a lot i don't think i saw it in theaters because i was like it came out in 93 so i was like eight i think I just saw it at a friend's house or something like that. But I remember seeing it when I was little and liking it a lot. Because I liked witches. Sure. I thought witches were fun. When did you first see it?

Saw it on Disney Channel in middle school at a sleepover. Saw it again sometime in high school. Then saw it again at your house last night. Yeah. Oh, that's cute yeah so it was fun fun viewing yeah i didn't see it for the first time until well into adulthood i saw it for the first time like four years ago what was the situation um put us put us there my my my best pal jt who you might remember from the Twilight episode.

Friend of the cast. He's like, how have you never seen Hocus Pocus? I think he had it on DVD. And we're like, I don't remember if it was Halloween time or not. But he was just like, there was a sense of urgency that I needed to see it right away. I feel like I've seen it around Halloween time as an adult. Yeah. All right.

Here's the recap for Hocus Pocus. There are these three witches. They're sisters. Bette Midler, Kathy Najimy, 29-year-old Sarah Jessica Parker. Mm-hmm. The Sanderson sisters. They're witches in the height of like Salem witch trial, like 17th century Salem, Massachusetts. And they're conjuring this spell so that they can

live forever it literally sounds like a biopic of madonna i'm gonna drink the blood of young people so as to live forever so there's this one child who they've kidnapped and they have this like potion and they're about to like try to live forever but all these people come they're like no you're witches well it's her brother her brother tries to be like her brother tries to save her but then all the townspeople are like he's wearing a white blouse i was like everyone that's how you know everyone's wearing a blouse is which is very 90s of him even though it's happening in the 1600s it's weird that you can tell like oh this is the 90s version of the 1600s. He's like JTT, but olden times. That's what we were talking about.

I know. I was like, wait, is that? Because I was thinking, I was like, is Devon Sawa on this? I was like, no, it's another adorable white boy with, like, that same kind of bowl haircut that we thought was attractive. It's the dirty blonde hair, the blue eyes.

That was, if you did not look like that. Soft feminine features. Yeah, like, a sheer blouse. I'm like, what is going on. Yeah, like a sheer blouse. I'm like, what is going on? Am I turned on right? What is happening? I know.

It's like I'm an adult woman, and he's so clearly a child. But it's like, he's a cutie. He's cute. He's cute. Yeah. He's fine. Wow. OK.

Kaelin's too good for a 12-year-old boy. So the townspeople come and they hang the witches, but they cast this spell that if a virgin lights a candle on All Hallows' Eve, they'll be able to return. And then they turn the boy who tries to save his sister into a cat. Zachary Binks. Zachary Binks. He goes from having two nipples as a human to eight nipples as a cat. This has been cat facts with Caitlin early in the episode.

She's like, don't give me that blouse. Give me some closeups of those sweet men. She's turned on by the cat version of the 12 year old boy. She's like, he's way sexier as a cat. Were you, were you also into the,

uh, the Robin hood, the Disney animated Robin Hood where there are foxes? No, I'm not into animals. He was a bird. He was somehow He was cute. Let's get the record straight. I'm not

attracted to animals. I can't believe I have to clarify this but I want you all to know that I'm not into animals. Someone who's literally known for talking about cat nipples. That's like a really hard argument to make. Fair point. I'm just explaining scientific facts.

Okay, so that's the first seven minutes of the movie. Flash forward to 300 years later. It's still set in Salem, Massachusetts. There's this new boy in town. Boys are still wearing glasses. But this time they're tie-dye. Tie-dye. Because he's laid back and from California.

He's California. He's from Los Angeles. Huh, what's that? L.A. Hollywood. I like it. And then they've got those little meathead Massachusetts boys. They're like, California's dumb.

What is spice? California's fucking lousy. Anyway, so this new kid, Max Tennyson, moves to town. He's like, oh, this Salem witch stuff is stupid,

but there's a hot girl in his class who likes it, so he's like, okay, I'll be into it. And he has a little sister, Dani, who she's like, Thora Birch. Thora Birch.

Yeah, just adorable Thora Birch. Red lipstick. She's got the hot, Thora Birch is in her makeup this whole movie I know her hair looks so good

throughout the entire film I'm like stop it who did her hair I'm man who did her makeup that red lipstick is bananas

angelic and beautiful yeah I didn't tussle just perfectly tussled throughout the entire film I never realized like the last time

I saw this like 10 years ago like wasn't able to appreciate it was Thoroughburtch no now we know no Kenny Ortega she steals the show I never realized, like, the last time I saw this, like, 10 years ago, like, wasn't able to appreciate it was Thora Birch. No. Now we know. No.

And she steals the show. She's so good. Oh, yeah. She really does steal the show. She's great. Man. So Max is like, oh, fine, I'll take you trick-or-treating because it's Halloween night. And they stumble upon this girl Allison.

Hot girl's house. Hot Allison's house. Waiting at the top of her staircase in a ball gown saying, oh, hi. Would you like some cider? Right. Like, who? Okay, question. We've all been trick-or-treating.

Who the fuck gets invited into A, people's homes when they do that? Yeah. And asks if they want cider. Like, that just. Well, that's what they're like that's very like it happens at all there's that moment where it's like oh they're rich people they'll probably make us drink cider and sure enough like what is that a stereotype for rich people just invite people off the street on halloween to drink of their cider why are they in

and god she was also please i saw their house when they were unpacking. They look pretty loaded to me, too. Max has a staircase in his bedroom. Right? He has a drum set. He has, like, new Nike cross trainers. Yeah. They're all rich. Massachusetts facts. Salem

is a very wealthy town. Is it? Yeah. So, anyways, I guess it was... It's really funny finding out what Disney thinks, like, rich people are like, when it's... Right. When, like, the baseline of all their families is already wealth. Right. Anyway, so they convince...

Max is like, oh, what an opportunity for me to bond with hot Allison if we go to the witch's house. Oh, wait, did we talk about how he humped the pillow yet? We did not, no. That's a great... Nora Burch's entrance in this movie is so crazy. She's hiding in the closet and then she walks in on

Max. Because he gets home. Humping a pillow. Humps his pillow. He's like, Allison! Local history is so interesting. And then out comes Nora Burch and she's like, I'm out! I was like, are you guys going to hook up? What is happening?

That was wild. Yeah. She like gets like where the pillow was and she's like, I'm Allison. Kiss me. He's like, oh no, that's your brother. Thora is very horny in this movie. Everyone. This is a movie with a lot of horny depth.

Horny depth. Well, but because it's a Kenny Ortega joint. Is he known for his horny depth. Well, horny depth. Well, but because it's a Kenny Ortega joint. Is he known for his horny depth? He's known for the High School Musical trilogy. A pretty horny trilogy, I'd argue. I was reading theories about him on the internet today. Some people say he's hooked up with Gene Kelly. Kenny Ortega.

I know. He's amazing. He's a legend. How old is he? 67 years old. He's a legend. How old is he? 67 years old. And so well preserved. Just like the Sanderson sisters.

Just haven't aged a day. He's drinking someone's blood. I want to know what children he's been drinking the blood of. Zac Efron. That's why he casts him in all the movies. He's like, I need you as a vessel. He took his fangs to Zac Efron. That's why he casts him in all the movies. He's like, I need you as a vessel. Do you think that Kenny took his fangs to Zac Efron's neck?

And sucked out a couple years out of Zac? Definitely. It could have been how Zac just aged all of a sudden. It could have been. Yeah. He went from being like prepubescent, like, cute boy. Yeah. I'm a man.

Look at me in Baywatch. What was the movie where that happened for him? Where it was like, oh, I'm hot now. I think like Neighbors. Neighbors. Yeah, that feels right. There was like a grandpa movie, Bad Grandpa. I've never seen a Zac Efron movie.

That's totally fair. We'll watch every single movie that he's in. Really? I love Zac Efron. Zac, if you're out there, I have a question, which is, can you take a bag to your neck? Suck your blood. Hey, look, back to Hocus Pocus. Hot trance-ish.

I'm sorry. They go to the witch's house. Virgin Max lights the candle. What a loser. What a fucking loser. No one calls him a loser. Oh, they all make fun of him for being a virgin. But he's fine.

He's, like, okay with it. He's like, yeah, I being a virgin. But he's fine. He's like, okay with it. He's like, yeah, I'm a virgin. But he seems secure. I like how he offers it to the hot girl, Allison, to light. And she's like, no thanks. Because she's like, I fuck. Yeah. That was her way of letting him know, like, I fuck.

Not like you, loser. And he's like, okay, I'll do it. I'll do it. So he lights the candle and it brings back the three witches. And then they recap. So there, oh, there's, speaking of horniness, here's who is everyone who's horny. Max for Allison. Maybe Thor Birch for her brother.

Bette Midler for her book. She wants to fuck her book. She does. And then Sarah Jessica Parker. For everyone. For everyone, yeah. I like that. And then Sarah Jessica Parker. For everyone. For everyone, yeah. I like that. Horny bus driver, too.

Horny bus driver? Horny Satan? Yeah. Horny Satan? Yes. Everyone is extremely horny. There's got to be someone out there named Horny Satan. Horny Satan if you're out there.

All right, let me get through the rest of the story very fast. So the witches come back. They're like, crap, we are only going to be able to stay alive for a day unless we can make this potion again. But the book gets stolen from them. They try to get the book back because it has a recipe for the potion that lets them live forever. The witch is like, they don't remember it. Yeah, it's like you're a witch. I don't really get that reliance on the book.

At what point do you get off the book? Get a fucking Google Doc. If you've been, like, a witch for so many hundreds of years. You've had the time. It's go time. It's show time. Like, you can't just be like, oh, the most important spell. I have it written down somewhere. The one that's going to keep me alive forever.

Which really matters to them. Yeah, it doesn't make sense that they haven't memorized like i remember like half of it it wasn't a long spell it was a toe of a of a dead man easy and then they like spit in it part of their other stuff yeah yeah 30 minutes or less r Rachel Ray. Live forever. Anyway, so they're trying to get their book back and then they're like, no. And then they try to burn the witches and that doesn't work.

And then finally they're able to defeat them. Meanwhile, Thackery Binks comes back as a cat and he talks. He talks, yeah. Which is scary to me. Right. We learned from the Men in Black episode. That's not, you're not a fan.

I was kind of horny for him as a cat too. The cat? Really? I was scared. Two? Are you saying in addition to me, I still want to clarify, I'm not horny for cats.

You know what? We were actually just like sitting there and, and Kayla was just like, it's crazy how much I want to fuck this cat. And I'm like, can you not? It's like, well,

I'm right next to you, please keep your horny thoughts to yourself. A lot of horny depth. Is this an actor's film or is this a tone poem? That's what I have to ask myself at the beginning. I would say Kenny Ortega's body of work is more of a tone poem. Would you say that? But when Bette Midler's in it, suddenly it's an actor's film.

It is. She's giving us range and depth. I know. Because there's her ugly before they drink of the potion. Mm-hmm. And then there's her beautiful. How different do they look? How different do they look?

Their hair is just a little bit more vibrant. Their hair is better. It's like this shape. But they also, it is. It's like they took all the really poorly applied special effects makeup and prosthetics and just kind of sloughed it off. Right. Right. So it's still unattractive.

Yeah, like if someone took a baby wipe to them and they're like, we did it. We killed a child. Now we look 2% nicer. Like, maybe it's a bones thing. We killed a child. Now we look 2% nicer. Maybe it's a bones thing. Maybe their bones hurt. And then I'm just throwing it out there. Do witches have bones?

Yeah. They do? But isn't that the whole thing about them, like, floating? Oh, maybe they have hollow bones. Like bird bones? But they're so strong. Look, I'm not writing the rules of witches. I don't know. She just reports on the facts.

She reports on the facts. So, finally, they destroy the witches and everything's fine and Thackeray Banks gets to return to his ghost form and everything's great. And then, is there a kiss at the end? The witches die. The witches die. There's no kiss. That's fine. They're teenagers. They get pretty close. There's no kiss at the end. There's no kiss. But they get close.

They get pretty close. There's a weird spoonie thing. We were talking, okay, we were saying, what's his name, Max? Max.

Max must have been doing some serious, like, The Secret style manifesting because this day, in the afternoon, he's, like,

humping his pillow thinking about this girl. Fast forward, like, eight hours later, she's in his freaking arms. In his bed. In his bed.

Taking a little nap. Reclining on the formerly humped pillow. Wow. Manifesting. That is the secret. Yeah. Question.

Okay, ladies. We were all 16-year-old horny girls. Have you ever taken a pillow and been like, person at school who I really like?

Uh, yeah. I'm pretty sure I did that yesterday. Yeah. I was kind of surprised I, like, did that because it's a Disney film. And it's, but it is something very high school that you do. Right. It was weird. I mean, I do, not to talk about a 12-year-old character's sexuality.

He's probably like 15. I think he's like 16 because he's driving. Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. So now I feel better. Okay. So let's talk about his sexuality.

He's developing manhood. Kaylin's so upset. She's like, let's go back to catnip balls. I know that Kaylin would rather be sucking on a catnip, but I think we need to talk about masculinity. We're in trouble today. We're in trouble. Okay. Okay.

But truly, we, I mean, obviously, the point of this podcast is to talk about female characters. But I think portrayal of masculinity also is super important. Sure. And this was, I thought, a pretty good one in terms of, like, Max is a 16-year-old and a virgin, which is not uncommon. Right. And on average, I think men tend to lose their virginity later than women do. But I thought it was kind of cool to see a young male character who was like, I'm a virgin. I'll light this candle. Whatever.

I'll do the inciting incident of the movie because I've never fucked before. I thought that was nice. And even when people were giving him shit about it, he never got like, I'm going to go. I'm a monster now. i i thought that that was like a pleasant part of this movie it's like we have a virgin male and everyone like even when people aren't cool with it like the guy who's the guy who's talking to the fake police officer he was like but that was a weird interaction where he is like yeah i, I'm a virgin. And the police officer was like, really? As in, like, how are you not inside a woman right now?

The implication was weird. Like, he wasn't like, oh, you suck. He was just like, but you're so hot. It was bizarre. But anyways, I liked Max's character for that reason. Yeah, because you see so often in media where, like, young boys are like, I gotta lose my virginity. It's like this thing and being a virgin is lame and it makes me a loser. So it's nice to see him like, maybe not necessarily embrace it, but to be okay with it.

He's a horny virgin and he doesn't care. Yeah, because it gets brought up like four or five different times in the movie where it's like, you're a virgin. And he's like, uh-huh. I mean, he got a lot accomplished by never fucking in that movie. Yeah, you see that portrayal of virgins being lame. So yeah, good point. In this movie, he's fine with it. It's weird.

It's nice to see. He's a loser and a hero. Right. And also, at the end of the day, he's still like a hot kid. He's going to be fine. Is he that hot, though? He's like that tie-dye t-shirt at the beginning. Not hot. A bit much.

And I like them. I mean, I'm DNA programmed to love little meathead Massachusetts boys. Oh, sure. Who are like, what is this? This is dumb. Oh, you liked ice? You were in ice? I was in ice?

He had ice carved in the back of his head. That's literally 90% of people I went to fourth grade with. Did you go to school with kids who would have the Nike swoosh just shaved into their hair? Either that or like a lightning bolt, yeah. I went to school in Los Angeles, California. Oh, Cali boys. So maybe that's why

I'm like, he's okay. Right, right, because you know. I know that Oh, Cali boys. So maybe that's why I'm like, he's okay. Right. Right. Because you know. Because you know. I know that laid back Cali vibe. Man. I still.

Used to it. I still kind of find it exotic and exciting. And then, and then, whereas like I'm used to ice. Sure. Fucking dumb, dumb, like you want to go watch a hockey game? Like dumb ass. So I know we've only talked about men so far the male characters but i'm gonna do it some more um so we were like okay who's the protagonist of this movie

is it winnie sanderson bett midler's character not really she's the main antagonist the protagonist is max which means this is like a boy's story told from a boy's perspective. But there's so many women in it. There are. He doesn't have like another boy except for Thackeray, the cat. And Billy Butcherson, the zombie. Well, but then you made the argument that it was Thackeray, the cat's movie. Yes.

Well, each character is pretty active. Opening arguments. Things are about to get very serious. Whose movie is focus focus ultimately it's Kenny Ortega's ultimately but I mean the movie is remembered for the three witches but

they are the antagonistic force of the movie we're not rooting for them right Beetlejuice is barely in Beetlejuice no he doesn't come until 45 minutes in oh that's a strong case to make me watch it yeah oh Beetlejuice feminist icon Beetlejuice feminist icon Beetlejuice so we yeah we remember this story for like the three witches mostly but it's like Max's story which is kind of weird to think about but I would make the argument that all of the female characters are just as active, if not more so, than him in moving the story forward.

Thor Birch is like, she does a lot. And Alyssa actually does a lot because she, in the very beginning, whenever they conjure the witches back, she like hits one of them with a broom and then a frying pan and actually like saves. The two girls have to save Max in that scene. Yeah. He doesn't. It's been established that Max, the virgin, cannot fight. Yeah. He gets held up in a cemetery for his Nike cross trainers by Ice.

By Ice. And his buddy is me. My boyfriend Ice. By. Oh. My boyfriend. Oh my God. He's actually on his way i wish i could say that seriously my boyfriend ice is like picking me up so

can't stay i'm so happy for you thank you so much really happy for you both but like yeah he doesn't like he gets like shook down for his shoes and then he's trick-or-treating. You see a contrast of like toxic masculinity versus like, whatever the opposite of that is.

I don't know, but then they're like trick-or-treating and then it's like ice and like a larger group. And like, I do love that Thoroughbred's character is like my,

I'm here with my big brother so you better watch yourselves. And then our big brother is just like, he's a little leaguer. He's like, I'm here with my big brother, so you better watch yourselves. And then our big brother's just like, um. He's a little leaguer. He's like, actually, just take my candy and please let us alone. It's because Ice is an extremely strong female protagonist. Who gets what he wants. So we see the trope over and over of men having to save women,

which happens in the beginning with Thackeray trying, actually failing to save his little sister, Emily. But then the next time we see a thing like that, it's Allison and Danny having to save Max. And then he, like, gets his composure or whatever, and he's like, oh, the burning rain of death. And, like, they are able to escape. But, like, it was cool to you see allison and uh

danny like save they're all working together they are yeah they're a team exactly but then it's also later on it's allison who comes up with the idea to burn the witches which proves unsuccessful but she was at least like active women tearing down women she is not a feminist icon. I'm not a feminist icon. Yeah, how do we feel about them wanting to deny the witches and what they want? They're fully actualized women. I mean, but they're doing it

at the expense of the lives of children. Then do we need children? Do we care? Excellent point. Open your arguments. Do we need children? As a culture, do we need children? At this point, it's just cruel to keep having them.

Right? Yeah. Well, shout out to all those newborn babies. Are we talking about the witches? Well, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, one last. So Allison has the idea to burn the witches.

And then she, at the end, figures out what the witches are trying to do with, like, conjuring all the children to suck the life force out of them or whatever. So, like, she's not the protagonist necessarily, but she plays an active role. So it's nice, because a lot of times you see a supporting character like that

pretty much just tagging along and not doing anything. So you see her doing stuff and, like, influencing the story. So I like that a lot. I know. I didn't appreciate because like she is the brains of a lot of what's happening

because like her mom worked at the witch museum. And there's that scene in the classroom where he's like, oh, Halloween is invented by the candy companies. I'm wearing a tie-dye shirt.

I'm a hippie. And she's like, yeah, actually. Let me drop some knowledge on you. Actually, you live in Salem, Massachusetts, you fucking idiot. You can't just pretend witches aren't a real thing. This is literally Halloween time. Women have died.

Yeah, people are dying. Okay, but I didn't like how the cat Thackery was the one that led them to the cemetery and was like, witches can't touch hallowed ground. And it's like, she would know that. Right. I feel like he stepped on Allison's fact knowledge in that. She probably knew that already because she knew about the salt. Well, she had to read it from the book.

She didn't learn about that until they opened up the book at the end. Yeah, you would think Allison would know more because her mom was a curator of that museum. And then she told Danny, like, Thor birch's character like i love witches and it's like then i don't know more about it right fucking look it up what kind of crystals are you working with i don't think you can't imagine anything that strong right so the witches kathy najimy kathy najimy who okay i have a little bit of a problem with her character because it's basically,

she's like very horny and she basically does nothing. She's a slutty dumb witch. She's like perpetuating like the dumb blonde bimbo stereotype. Yes, in an egregious way, no less. Yeah. Thank you, Kenny Ortega. But she does get to use her Broadway singing voice

to conjure the children. Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, wait, Bette? No, well, Sarah. She also starred in a Broadway. Did she? She got cast in Annie when she was really young. Of course she's in Annie. Sarah. God.

I like Sarah a lot. I like her a lot too. That's her character's name too. It is. That is fully betting out. Kenny Ortega was just like, here's some fake teeth. Do whatever you want. Fake teeth and a wig. Go crazy.

And she is great. And another thing is that it drives me crazy when Broadway stars are put in movies. And it's like, it would just be so easy for you to give us one scene of them singing just a little bit. And we get it. We get it. Yeah. We got it. And it's so good.

It's great. It's so fun. That's the only thing I remembered about the movie. It's pretty great. It's epic. But in terms of, like, their characters, I, I mean, obviously, Winifred Sanderson, Bette Midler's character, is the brains, the operation. The other two are just sort of her faithful. But can't retain a spell.

Right. Yeah. It's so... Between the three of them. Yeah, they can't even do it. How many women does it take to memorize a spell? Okay, let's try the three of us right now to memorize a spell. We can. I mean, well, that was like my whole issue with Charmed. It's like, there's try the three of us right now to memorize a spell. We can.

I mean, well, that was like my whole issue with Charmed. It's like there's three of you. You guys can't figure out one spell between the three of you? Who's your favorite witch on Charmed? I liked Rose McGowan. Just because I like Rose McGowan. She's great. She's great.

I did. I love Piper. And I love her on Pretty Little Liars as the mom too. She almost dies on Pretty Little Liars every... It's like Piper! Your magic! Would it surprise you to know that I've not seen either of those shows? I don't

understand. You've never seen Charmed? No. Why don't we have a TV podcast? I watch a lot of TV. Yeah. I like TV. I can talk to you about Sex and the City. Yeah. I haven't seen Sex and the City.

Look at the way. I hate it. I'm so upset. I'm so distraught. You're. I'm just cringing at the thought of being a Samantha. I'm a Miranda. No. You're actually.

Caitlin, you're a Charlotte. I'm a. She's, you're a Charlotte. I'm a sick bird. Look how mad she is. I'm actually a Raphael because as far as I'm concerned. I'm Chris Noth. Teenager Ninja Turtles is a better version of Sex and the City. Oh my God. They're all in New York.

We're going to light you on fire. I made a sketch called sex in the sewer and it's all of the ninja turtles as sex in the city characters and they just talk about turtle sex puns i'll share it on our twitter please do it it's probably the best thing i've ever written the world needs this content yeah wow that's honestly amazing You lost me and you won me back. All right, I want to talk about witchcraft and how it's a thing that, like, men in history have been like, oh, no, a woman with agency and, like, identity. Fuck her, she's a witch. I was trying to read up on, like, the Salem witch trials and stuff like that,

and then I forgot to finish. So I don't know if I will be making any useful points, but I think it's worth noting. Okay. Starting now. Scene one. Act one. Scene one. But yeah, I think it's just worth noting that throughout history, women have been persecuted because they were thought to be witches.

And it was mostly just because they were like maybe practicing some like pagan rituals. But like whatever, like who cares? They were maybe vegans. They gotta die. It was like a lot of midwives so it's like women who were older maybe didn't have children but who had like knowledge of like the female body and like what it could do and how to like help it and so yeah it's like this knowledge that we don't possess and i'm scared of it now and i gotta have someone to blame isn't it funny how that's still happening right now the gop is like hey no

abortions no birth control no health care literally i feel like i know that there's like currently no tests for like congress or presidency but like they should be having to take at least like some sort of like sex 101 because they don, I don't think many of them even know how like the female reproductive system works. Oh, there's no way. They 100% can't. There's no way. Just the things they say.

It's great. Like there's a senator, I don't remember which one, but who like. You see the one that's like, well, you know, the body has a way of shutting that whole rape thing down.

Yeah. Yeah. What are you talking, what? What? Do I have venom? Like what is, his way of shutting that whole rape thing down. Yeah, yeah. What are you talking... What? What? Do I have venom? What is this thing that you know that I don't know? It was a

senator who had just voted that women can't get abortions anymore and then asked his mistress to be like... Actually, you need to get an abortion. I'm going to plant parenthood that I'm actively trying to shut down. Like, fuck off. Yeah. Oh, fuck off. Yeah. Oh, this is the worst timeline, gang.

This is it. This is the darkest one. Like the Hocus Pocus. Right. So that, and then I wanted to mention that a lot of female movie villains are witches, which, like, you know, may be perpetuating this idea that, like, oh, what you're... Well, because witches are, like, vilified. I mean, they're seen as like an evil. Yeah.

Yeah. Being a dark sided creature, which is bad, but it's also just like uncreative. It's like, Oh, we need a female villain. And she,

Oh, she's a witch. It's like, we don't, I want to have a witch save the day. Yeah. Well, there's good witches in film and TV.

Let's go see Wicked. But okay. Wicked is really good. Wicked rules. Anyways. It's weird that it just occurred to me.'m like oh so for this whole movie we are to assume that a the salem witch trials were totally legit because the witches were actually bad and drinking the blood of children i was like whoa that is actually an insanely backwards thing to open the movie with it's like well clear as we all know,

the Salem witch trials were a glowing moment in American history and we were right. My favorite. Like what? That, I didn't even think of it that way. I just wanted to see Bette Midler in an eye party costume. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That is wild. It's weird. That's a really wild, yeah. Where it's like, oh, well they deserve to die. Yeah. They were trying to eat those children. Right. Like what were they doing in that cabin?

They were probably trying to kill a kid. We better. And then we see them get hanged. That is weird. Kenny. Yeah. Kenny, what the heck? Kenny.

Who wrote this movie? It was Mick Garris and Neil Cuthbert. I saw. I don't know what their names are, but it was two dudes. A man named Mick, honestly. There's a sort of, like, throwaway moment in the movie where, so Billy Butcherson is the zombie who gets brought back to life. I like him. You had a crush on him.

I didn't think he had enough fur for Caitlin. I don't care for all the words you're putting in my mouth. But it was like dirty hair. He's a dirty hair. You know what? He was matted like a dog. I get it. I do not want to fuck zombies

and I don't want to fuck cats. You're such a little freak. But you were like, this is your month. You are thriving. Love it. Wait, but he was... Look at her glowing. There is... Caitlin's rubbing her hands together.

Like she's about to eat a steak. Flush with excitement! Oh, guys. Anyway. A lot of horny energy in this room emanating from Caitlin. This is... It's because I'm a witch. I'm casting a horny spell on everybody.

I'm going to look up some spells. Okay. Look up a horny spell. I'm totally to look up some spells. Okay, look up a horny spell. I'm totally a witch because I'm bleeding right now. It's because we were talking shit about witches. No, it's okay. Literally every month I bleed through my tampon and I'm like, this is the month I'm going to get a diva cup. And I never do.

Same. Same. What about the period panties? Thanks. Hey, sponsor us. Sponsor this very important feminist podcast thanks if you're out there i still ignore all the bestiality yeah you're gonna want to skip large chunks i don't know i want to do diva cup but then i just never i'm like every time it

occurs to me i'm like oh wait but i don't know I should get Amazon Prime and then I don't. Yeah, I never order it. It's like, I should order it and then I don't for 30 days. We're going to pay shipping on this. I can't do that. I'll forget to sign up for the free trial. I just have that birth control implant in my arm that makes you not have a period for three years. Oh, nice. I'm not bleeding. I can't be a witch if I'm not bleeding ever. That sounds like a witchy ass thing to say. I'm bleeding. I'm bleeding right now, too.

Cool. There's a lot of blood flow in this room. There's a lot of blood flow. I like that we're all on the same moon cycle. Yeah. I'm like, oh, man. It's nice. We're all synced up.

I'm going to go get some crystals after this. You should. Have you ever bought crystals? I've never bought crystals. All right. go get some crystals after this. You should. Have you ever bought crystals? I've never bought crystals. All right back to hocus pocus. So Billy Butcherson. Yeah. There's a moment where they get to the cemetery for the first time. Zachary Banks is all like oh this is the grave of Billy. He was Winnie's lover but she caught him sporting with her sister, and she poisoned him and tied his mouth shut with a dull needle.

That I'm on board with. Yes. Because. That's got to happen. Sure. How will they learn? A lot of times when, if there's, like, an infidelity that happens, and a woman finds, like, her man partner has been unfaithful,

the other woman is vilified, rather than, like, the man, like, usually gets off the hook, or she might be mad at him, but, like, you know. But I mean, like, her sister, I'd be pissed. But I wouldn't care. But I'd be, like, the real But she's like, that's my sister. Yeah, and it doesn't even seem like they have any, like, I mean,

they, like, all kind of insult each other, but she never brings it up. First of all, what is sporting with? She's like, oh, they caught him sporting. I think that's just a fun little Disney version of fucking around. Fucking in her house. Which sister was he supposed to? Was it Sarah Jessica Parker?

Sarah Jessica Parker. Right. Who is so horny that she... That character is weird because it's just like, like oh she's so horny she doesn't have control over herself her on that broomstick yeah yeah it's a lot she's it's a lot it's like it's a more graphic version of max with the pillow it's a i cast the horny spell on her but i do i do like so there's like five main male characters, Ice and then his friend, whatever the fuck his name is, Billy Butcherson, Thackery Binks, and Max. Of like the good guys, which you find out that Billy Butcherson is like a good guy at the end.

Two of them are a zombie who doesn't talk for most of the movie. And when he does talk, he tells a woman to go to hell. It's true. Not feminist. No, he's not a feminist icon. And then she's like, I've been there. I found it quite lovely. Is that a good?

But you know what? It's pretty badass of her to, like, come back from the dead, summon this dude who fucked her over, and she still won't let him speak. And it's like, do my bidding. Yeah. It's pretty bad. Yeah.

I got to respect her for that. I mean, Winnie is the leader. She's the leader. Follows the rule that the woman with the shortest hair is in charge. She has the shortest hair, I'm pretty sure. It's hard to tell because it's in a big updo thing. It's in two piles.

Kenny Ortega just threw her head in there. And then Kathy Najimy, her, I feel like she's underused in this movie. She is. She just really, she spends most of her time just contorting her mouth. Yeah, she's had some sort of weird half smile.

It was weird. I mean, it's an argument. It's a very interesting character choice. It was, I don't know. Yeah, I was like, I wish she had more to do. Yeah, more to do or just like, I mean, at least we remember Sarah Jessica Parker's character for being so horny. Like, what do we remember? Oh, she smells children a lot. But from a story standpoint, not a feminist standpoint, we don't super need two of the witches. Yeah. Like, you're really just. But you gotta have need two of the witches. Yeah. Like, you're really just...

But you gotta have a witch crew. That's true. Well, yeah. You gotta have backup. But they're not helpful. Yeah, they're not that helpful. Witch... But also, it's hocus pocus, and, you know, it's hocus pocus.

There's three witches. The rules of threes. True. True. In this great, hilarious comedy film. And in of threes. True. True. In comedy. In this great, hilarious comedy film. And in horror for children. Yeah. Just storytelling in general.

I have a spell. Okay. I googled horny spell. This is what came up. Oh my God. Okay. So this is called Akoda's Love and Lust spell. Visualize the person having sex with you and then say, I have wanted you.

I have wanted you. Now you shall want me. Now you shall want me. This is my will. This is my will. So mote it be. So mote it be. Congratulations.

We're all getting laid. That is amazing. If that was a man saying that to a woman, that would be the rapiest thing in the entire world. You're not supposed to say it to a person. But we're women, so we're witches and it's okay. You're supposed to say this while you're quietly humping your pillow. So moated bee. You gotta put crystals in the pillow and hump it while you're saying this.

And then you'll manifest and he'll be in your arms before you know it. Oh my god. So moated be. Okay, what does moat mean? I don't know. I feel like she just wanted to use a hard consonant. It's like moated like done, you know what I mean? Just punctuation. So like

appropriately 90s terms. That was extremely, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my god, she's, it's 1993. Oh yes, Thora Birch my goodness. It's 1993. Oh, yes. Thora Birch sassily delivers the year. Do we talk much about her character? I mean, she's eight, so, like, what really will she do? But she has so much agency.

A ton. She's, like, pretty. She's a spitfire. She's not afraid. I mean, she does get a little scared, but she's just, like, active in what's happening. She's smart. She's not, like, an unusual sibling dynamic where her brother kind of tends to roll over and do whatever she wants. Yeah, she's kind of the alpha.

She's in charge. Yeah, she's totally in charge. She is making fun of him for being a virgin all the time. And she apparently knows what sex is. Like she's wearing, she's in full makeup. She's the woman of the world. She's from Los Angeles, you know. She's entering age faster out there in LA. She's an LA makeup. She's the woman of the world. She's from Los Angeles, you know. Children age faster out there in L.A.

She's an L.A. gal. L.A. girl. Yeah, now she's taking over New England. Yeah, I mean, I like that character. And also... She's a good actress, actually. Yeah. Surprisingly good.

Because children... Oh, jeez. Don't get me started on child actors. Caitlyn has an issue with child actors. I mean, I do, too. I don't care for them. We all do. Yeah, well, also, they're just roaming out in the wild here, too, just frothing at the mouth.

There's too many. I like what's happened to the girl that plays Sally Draper. She seems like she's developed into, like, a decent, like, normal, like, not traumatized. Right. On the outside, anyway. Right. Sometimes it happens well because hayley joel hasman oh okay he's my boyfriend ice that's my coat okay do you guys know who ariel winters is no no it sounds familiar a nerdy daughter on on modern family, I do know who she is. And her internet presence,

let me tell you. Is it wild? She dresses so slutty on every red carpet. It is hilarious. Probably just to be like, I'm not the girl. Just thotty as fuck.

Just like showed up to the Smurfs movie, just like full cleavage, like ass crack out, just tiny, barely covering her crotch. And her family drama is very... I think she actually got emancipated from her mom. She did. She did. Yeah.

So her family dynamic is really messed up. Very Drew kind of vibe. She just is so out there and over the top. It's so out there and over the top. It's pretty hilarious. I encourage you all to follow Ariel Winters. Followed. On Instagram. The word fuck is in her bio.

Whoa. She does not post pics from Modern Family. Oh, except when it's Ty Burrell's birthday. Then she whips out the Modern Family pics. Ty Burrell went to Penn State University, which is a place that I have one of two degrees from, the second one being a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. And you know that I hate to bring it up, but the opportunity was there,

so I had to. Ty Burrell hot. Ty Burrell hot, yeah. Ty Burrell hot. Of course. Oh, my God. She's kissing a tall man on a boat in this picture. Good for her.

She's going out and getting what she wants. She wants to let everyone, she's like, I'm the nerdy girl from Modern Family, but I fuck. I fuck. Yeah, make no mistake. But Thora Birch, thriving. Excellent example of a child actor who ended up being like a wonderful adult. Now she's an indie darling. Thora Birch was later in the worst movie of all time,

American Beauty. Oh, yeah. Yeah, a great movie, Ghost World. And then now she's, you know, an indie darling. Cool. Good for her. Yeah. What did Max do?

Ooh, interesting question. Oh, yeah. Sorry, I just Googled horny spell again. We're, okay, I'm about to find out what happened to Omri Katz. Whoa, he aged very well. Well, he's only 41. What a little hottie. I know, but sometimes child stars end up looking kind of rough.

See Haley Joel Osment. Don't you dare. We all have eyes. Literally. You should open yours. Haley Joel Osment. Don't you dare. We all have eyes. Literally. Haley Joel Osment hot. Haley Joel. I'm on your side, Danielle. Put it on a coffee mug. Okay, so what is he

doing now? No one knows. The last time anyone saw this man, it was in General Hospital in 2000 where he played a bit part as a tattoo artist. Whoa. Well, Omri, if you're out there, if you're a friend of the cast. If you're listening, tweet at us. Oh, you still got it.

Let us know what it was like to be in a movie with so many strong, powerful women. And I have to say you're a virgin over and over. Yeah, true. Hey, does anyone have any final thoughts about the movie that we're talking about? Hocus Pocus. I like that Matt Miller's character is the Green Witch. have any final thoughts about the movie that we're talking about hocus pocus that that meddler's character is the green witch kathleen and jimmy's character is the red witch and sarah jessica parker is the purple witch and caitlin your microphone is green jimmy your microphone is red and mine is it's were chosen. We were chosen.

What a Winnie thing to say. I know. Just throw that dick in. I feel like I'm not the Winnie of the group. If I'm a Charlotte, I'm for sure not the Winnie. I just said that to be mean. I don't think you're a Charlotte. No one would ever think that. That's cruel.

That's a mean thing to say to your friend. Agree. I'm glad. That's a mean thing to say to your friend. Yeah. Agree. I'm glad. You're not a Charlotte. We should talk about whether or not the movie passes the Bechdel test. It sure does. A-da-do-ee.

It does. A-ding-a-ding. It sure does. All the sisters talk to each other pretty much in every single scene that they're in, and usually not about a man. Although, like, Billy Butcherson gets mentioned. Thackery Binks gets mentioned. But, like, for the most part.

You're allowed to talk. Yeah. Mostly talking about that little Dani. The time about Dani. Yeah, they're talking about her or. Just children in general. Children in general. Wanting to stay young forever.

The potions, the spells. Like, yeah, talking about all kinds of stuff. Beautiful lives. Allison and Dani talk quite a bit. Yes. Dani talks to her cokehead mom that we didn't talk about. Where they're just like, I'm Madonna. Can't you tell?

Isn't it obvious? I'm just like, man, their parents were fucked up that night. Like that was like, man, still in love after all these years. Inspiring. Yeah. But yeah, so a lot of different exchanges between women who have names so for sure the movie passes the bechdel test it does let's rate the movie on our nipple scale okay uh we rate on a scale of zero to five nipples based on how the movie treats its female characters i'm gonna give it i'll say

like a three and a half maybe even a four i think it does pretty well i would say the the main female characters outnumber the male characters especially like if you're talking about human males there's pretty much max and then those two like stupid boneheaded salem massachusetts dudes ice but ice and ice's friend sorry he's a person but yeah the other ones are either a cat or a zombie who doesn't even talk for most of the movie. And then, yeah, the rest of the characters are pretty strong, active women who play a significant role in the story. You know, I've got to take points off for like the two sidekick witches. I mean, that's fine. It's just that those characters aren't very well developed.

Like one of them, her main thing is that she's horny. And the other one is that she... Amazing cleavage on Sarah Jessica Parker duration of this movie. Sure. We just... Ortega got some right. Ortega. Ortega. that Allison's character is roughly the same age as like Megan Fox's character in the first Transformers movie. Yeah.

She doesn't get all grossly objectified the way that Megan Fox does. So Kenny Ortega is maybe he's objectifying. Feminist icon. Kenny Ortega. Maybe I wouldn't go so far as to say that. No, not Kenny Ortega. No. We're saying that Michael Bay, the way he chooses to frame Megan Fox's character in the Transformers movie is severely

objectifying and lingering. Like, ooh, look at her boobs. Isn't that the pinnacle of what the male gaze is? Like, Michael Bay. Totally, that's what I'm saying. This camera leering over Megan Fox. So I'm giving

points to, I suppose, Kenny Ortega, but to the movie, Hocus Pocus, for not objectifying the hot teen girl in that movie. Yeah, she doesn't show any cleavage. She's in an ugly brown sweater for most of the time. Yeah, she has a cute belt up top. Yeah, and he likes her. Oh, well, in that scene where she's, like, got the, oh, but they call that out where, in the beginning, when she's like, Danny's like, I could never wear a dress like that. I don't have the, what do you call them? Lobos or something?

Yowzas. Loves your boobies. I forget what word she uses. Your bazankas or something. Thora, settle down. So, yeah, that, the two, two like sidekick witches are like not super well developed but you know not everyone gets the most perfectly fleshed out character in a movie so that's like kind of okay and yeah I just like that it is weird to me that like it's Max's story

that it's like framed around like a boy's perspective and point of view. Cause it seems like such a girl movie. It does. It feels like a girl movie. No one thinks about the male characters. I kind of forget. I forget like,

oh, he's important part of this. Right. Cause you could like boil it down to like the three women being like, those are the villains. And then the love interest. And then the little sister that needs looking after. But because they are active

in like pushing the story forward it doesn't feel like that like the story is told from his perspective for the most part but he's like not doing all that much more or even more than anybody else sometimes right yeah i'll go i'm gonna stick with three and a half and they belong of course to Thackery Binks the cat and please don't say again that I fuck cats that was a nipple suck and then a cat coming just so you know we're

Foley artists now going home Danielle how many nipples do you give it? I give it four. Yeah. It was fun. I mean, Bette Midler, Sarah Jessica Parker, Kathy Najimy, they're having fun. I know that those two witches don't get much to do, but they do seem to genuinely, like,

be having a good time and having a blast on screen. And it's kind of rare you get to see women, older women, women made to look ugly, right, for the screen. Kind of just having a blast on screen and it's kind of rare you get to see women older women women made to look ugly right for the screen kind of just having a blast yeah yeah trying to hunt children and kill children i love it yeah worth mentioning that this is an extremely white movie yes people of color with speaking roles and barely even like there might be an extra or two who's a person of color. Everyone else. I did see an extra on crutches, and I was like, look at that.

Disability. But other than that, yeah, a very, very white movie. Is that Massachusetts? Is that Salem, though? That is Salem, but that is also a major cop-out. But I'm sure that they could make that argument because Salem is full of rich white people. Yeah.

I'm going to give it four as well. Because even though, and this is such a low bar to set, but it's like, even though not all the female characters are really fleshed out, I feel like it's just kind of a sloppy movie in general. Like, from a story standpoint, it's a little bit sloppy. It's not a cinematic masterpiece. There's a little there's those effects do not age well no there's just like a little bit too much going on there's like a few too many characters maybe in the movie yeah but the female

characters i mean with the exception of the fact that they're trying to kill the witches but they're not being like constantly beaten down by the story. They're not being punished. It's fun. It's good. Kenny Ortega, generally, I would say, and hopefully we'll discuss it further in our inevitable High School Musical episode. Wow. Kenny Ortega is a good director for women.

It seems like most of his female characters are treated with respect in his body of tone pumps. Okay. So. Remains to be seen. True. True. I am going to give it some four nipples to her for Kenny.

And I'll throw two back to Caitlin for her to throw in that cat she's in love with. This is the end of Cat Facts with Caitlin. Because I will not stand for this this how did it go on for so long she won't stand but she'll sure cuddle down below with them all right well danielle danielle thank you so much for being here this has been so much fun thank you for having me this has been a treat and a joy ah trick or treat happy halloween happy halloween yay where can people follow you online follow me on twitter and instagram at diva deluxe no e at the end and then friend me on facebook danielle perez super great you can follow us at bechtel cast on twitter instagram bechtelcast.com facebook

all the other things yeah we'd also like to plug Ariel Winters online presence Ariel we're here for you yeah go in the podcast anytime bye Bye. Woo. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. In California, during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days Available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. old Lynette Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI.

Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer, this season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus, only on Apple Podcasts. richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, Emperor of Lucha Libre, and a

WWE Superstar. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts.