The Bechdel Cast - Jurassic Park with Steven Ray Morris

Episode Date: August 17, 2017

Veloci-jamie and Caitlinsaurus Rex spared no expense to invite Steven Ray Morris to endorse the podcast and discuss Jurassic Park. Hold onto your butts! (This episode contains spoilers)Follow @StevenRayMorris on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you.

You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin' vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Caitlin. My name is Robin.

And you have a mouthful of 7-Eleven pizza. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the show. We have a podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. It's inspired by the Bechdel test. Here are the things about the test. There have to be two women in the movie. They have to have names. They have to talk to each other.

And their conversation can't be about a man. Don't understand. Right? Why must we have this? boring lame well today is an episode i didn't know if i was going to be excited for it and then i watched the movie i was like you know what i'm really excited oh my god well let's okay let's jump in but first we have a guest speaking of men he's been restrained yes he's lowering his head in shame for being a man as he should we didn't bring out the chains this time it's just bungees right yeah yeah just bungees if no one puts up if no one seems too aggressive we're like okay you just you're bungeed he could escape if he really

wanted right but we'll fight back he seems fine yeah yeah he'll be he'll be great uh because he is great he is the co-host of the perrcast. He's the producer of My Favorite Murder. And he's the host of a new podcast about the movie we're talking about today, Jurassic Park. It's called See Jurassic Right, Stephen Ray Morris. Thank you both for having me. Thanks. I'm super excited. For being here.

I know. We are happy. You're a Jurassic Park expert. Scholar. Whoa. you're a like jurassic park scholar oh you're a scholar that's a lot of pressure pressure pressure i mean i just i think it's one of those things where you're like you know when you're in college and you're like i want to love like insert impressive movie title here but then i think over time i was like you know what this is my favorite movie like just this is the thing that brings me the most joy. And you've written a collection of essays? A collection of essays on Thought Catalog.

Just kind of like the phase one of the podcast that I'm doing now, which is just me wanting to just excessively nerd out about, like, the things that I just like about this movie and this franchise. You know, problems with it, things that are interesting to talk about, all that kind of stuff. Because I went, like you, I went to film school. So it was just a way to almost feel like I was using my degree. Time out.

I just want everyone to know that I do have two degrees in film. One of them is a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. This is my new thing. Go on. This is my new thing. I'm going to start being a denier. Show us the diploma. I have a diploma at my house.

I will take a photo of it and Instagram it. I'm going to be a truther. I'm going to be a Caitlin grad school truther. We haven't seen the diploma. We don't know. Okay. I'll prove it. I've got proof.

We're going to turn this into a dystopian podcast in which I am Donald Trump. Oh, no. Yeah. I would like to be the villain, please. Okay. Hey, that's fine. We need villains out there.

Without evil, there could be no good. So it's good to be evil sometimes. That is a line from a song from the South Park movie. Here's what my dad used to say when he would be smoking outside of our house. And I'd say, hey, dad, stop smoking. That's bad for you. He'd say, sometimes it feels good to be bad and then he'd keep smoking cool i was pretty cool i mean in that way i probably should be a smoker

because that's a moment where it's like well i'm sold yeah well steven question for you yes so we're talking about the 93 og jurassic park Is this your favorite one out of all of the film ones? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay. It seemed, yeah. It's the only good one, so. Okay, I believe you. Yeah.

I mean, it's that thing with Jurassic Park that the unfortunate thing is that unlike other bigger franchises, the original is just so far and away better than the other ones that it's like people probably don't even know that there were other ones. Yeah. Lost World, the second one, wasn't terrible, but by no means is it as good as Jurassic Park.

No, it's kind of a drag. And even Steven Spielberg said he was like, it's not as good. I love that he admits movies he's directed are not that good. He's like, Temple of Doom? I don't care for it. Ah, stinker. I appreciate that. directed are not that good he's like temple of doom i don't care for it yeah stinker yeah i appreciate i mean i guess once you reach a certain point of money you're like well may as well tell the truth yeah i love that i was reading a lot about the product i mean i'm sure i'm stating i'm going to bring no new facts to the table for most people but i love

that he was like doing post for this movie while filming schindler's list yeah just for some levity at the end of the day he's like well we've been doing the list all day i'm going i'm going back to my my little whatever probably very nice house i'm staying at and i'm gonna look at some dinos to wine dino dailies some dino daily yeah i didn't even think about that yeah that like that would be the levity at the end of the day. He's like, let's do the Schindler's List dailies first, and then I'll watch the Jurassic Park. We don't have a – but I would have to assume you don't want to watch the Schindler's List dailies before bed. You want to watch the dinos. I would imagine.

How are the dinosaur robots coming along? That seems like a better midnight snack. Yeah. I'll do the recap of Jurassic Park. Please do. Okay, I will. So we meet a velociraptor and it's like, I'm going to eat somebody. Make a lot of ambient dino noises.

Great. Instead of interrupting. So we learn that there's a thing called Jurassic Park. It's anafting. So we learn that there's a thing called Jurassic Park. It's an amusement park. But because there was this attack, the creator of Jurassic Park, John Hammond, needs to bring on these experts to endorse this park. So he finds Dr. Grant and Dr. Sattler, these paleo... Is this a hotties only rule? It's like, I need experts, but only hot experts.

Yes. Hot scientists only. Yeah. Good rule. I mean, that's true to the book in all of Michael Crichton, where he only allowed, well, at least in terms of, you know, if we're getting into the podcast itself, like Michael Crichton only allowed hot women to be scientists in his books. Like I've read all of his books and it's like for him,

he can't see outside of that. It's like you can be a math genius, but you still have to be hot. He's on notice. I went through a weird Michael Crichton phase when I was a kid where I read a lot. I didn't read Jurassic Park, but I read a lot of Michael Crichton.

I was a real Crichton head. Yeah. What was your favorite? The one with all the numbers was the one where it was. Andromeda Strain? No, I got to look it up. It was not a good one, but I was like really obsessed with a movie of his. Proceed.

I'll figure out what my little Crichton thing was. So he approaches these two dinosaur experts and is like, come endorse my park. And they're like, well, okay, because he promises to fund their dig. They just found a raptor skeleton. Anyway, meanwhile, there's a lawyer also, and he's like,

I just don't know about this. I represent these investors, and I don't, there's an accident and it's everything's, I don't know. And then, prey. Oh, prey. Oh, Prey. Oh, yeah, we were just, yeah, Prey is not... Nano.

I just remember being like, ooh, Nano, cool. And then Next. That was another really bad Michael Crichton book that I read. I haven't read any of them, including Jurassic Park. Yeah, I think he tapped out at some point. He's got a million billion dino dollars. Yeah, he doesn't need to. He doesn't have to be good anymore.

Well, he's dead. Wait, he doesn't need to. He doesn't have to be good anymore. Well, he's dead. Wait, he's dead? R.I.P. Oh, no, I didn't know he was dead. Wow, I just felt that. I just, like, felt that in my gut.

He died on election night when Obama was elected, 2008. Do you think it's a... Again, Lord, never mind. Whatever you're about to say, I do think. Lord giveth,

Lord taketh away. i was just i was talking with someone yesterday about how i forget why it came up oh i was i was on a date and i was really struggling for topics and i said that hey the day i was born larry bird retired and my mom thought that his spirit of greatness went into me so you not only have larry bird spirit but you also have patrick swayze i have shared the same birthday the angels have my back but the funny thing is my mom would always say you have larry bird spirit of greatness larry bird is not dead he just retired that day so larry bird's walking around without his spirit because i have you have it because i have it and that's why i'm so good at basketball the end yep anyway so i'm gonna get through this recap as quickly as possible yes the dino experts they

come they arrive they come they arrive to jurassic park along with dr ian malcolm who's a chaotician is that je Jeff Goldblum? Yes. Why does every hot lady in LA have a picture with Jeff Goldblum touching them? Because he plays at the Rockwell. He needs to cut it out. It's starting to look perverted. I need him to stop. Every man on Tinder, if you live in LA, has a photo with Jeff Goldblum. Those are the rules.

He needs to make a new rule of, I'm not going to touch the audience members anymore friend of the cast josh fadum brought this he was like why does everyone have a picture where do you go where you get one and i was like wherever i know where you go there's a place and a time and you bring your an instagram and you and you get a million likes it's a cheat code jeff goldblum pervert. Done. Okay. It's a promotion. Yeah. Promotional campaign. Do you really live here if you don't have a weird perverted picture with Jeff Goldblum

hunching over and touching you after playing jazz music? I don't know. All sweaty. All sweaty. I like Jeff Goldblum, so I am not going to. You would let him touch you. I would let him touch me. Well, consent is important. That is a big message we have here on the podcast.

Especially when it comes to Jeff Goldblum's jazz concerts. I wouldn't consent to attend a Jeff Goldblum jazz concert. And that's fine. But to each their own. Yeah. He has to come to me. He has to come to one of the comedy shows I do in a basement. Right. He should be going to supporting more live alt comedy. Hey, Jeff Goldblum, what's your problem? Why do you hate the arts? Come on out to the comedy scene in LA.

I mean, he has time to sell tacos from a taco truck. Why not go support? Does he? Yeah. Oh, God. All right. Well, more on that later. We got a story to talk about.

They arrive at Jurassic Park and they're like, holy fuck. They didn't even know dinosaurs were going to be there. And the dinosaur experts were like, whoa, I guess our jobs are obsolete. And then there's this guy named Dennis Nedry who feels that he was not paid well enough by Jurassic Park creator John Hammond. And he decides to fuck them over by selling the embryos of the dinosaurs to a competing company I suppose so he has to like do all this stuff where he shuts down different systems and and security things lots of around the park tons of grids he shuts them all down so that he can steal these embryos and then he leaves with them shaving can in a shaving can product placement right

so he basically makes it so the whole park all the security measures all the electric fences and everything like that are shut down and totally off so the dino experts and john hammond's grandchildren uh lex and tim show up and they're like we want to go on the ride too so they go on this little jurassic park tour but all the systems shut down and the dinosaurs start to come out they're like oh there's a goat no no no no so t-rex shows up the artist yeah but only with your mouth only yeah i'm gonna become a mouth fully. Yeah. Anyway, T-Rex shows up. Dilophosaurus shows up.

The raptors get out of their cage and all hell breaks loose just like Ian Malcolm predicted. Hey, do you guys want to take a picture with me? I play the piano. He's like, life finds a way. And then life does find a way. He was right. That's his, that's Jeff goldblum's i see dead

people yeah shout out to hayley joel friend of the cast friend of the cast hayley joel where are you i'm kidding you won't answer so hell breaks loose a bunch of people die, including the lawyer guy and Muldoon, this British safari man, we'll call him. And then they all have to like, oh, fuck, how do we? And then they turn the systems back on. There's this great climactic scene where the raptors are about to get them. And then T-Rex swoops in and saves the day. The end. And then he's like, Mr. Hamm Hammond I've decided not to endorse your park

so have I that's beautiful thank you good recap that was a good one I usually do a fucking terrible job that was really good

I think that's cause I've had most of a small bottle of wine I think that we should encourage people to drink more alcohol and then they'll do a better job

at whatever they're trying to do yeah maybe not the best message to put out there. No, I wasn't being sarcastic. Okay.

Now I just feel like I should have brought something to drink. Yeah, sorry. Sometimes it feels good to be bad. Okay,

so that's the story. But what does it mean? What does it mean? Well, you're here. Oh my gosh. Okay, if you can't tell, I love this movie so much. It's probably one of my what does it mean? Well, you're here. Oh my gosh. Okay. If you can't tell,

I love this movie so much. It's probably one of my top five favorite movies of all time. I have seen it dozens of times. I love it. And it's, it's just, it's so good. It's,

I would say a perfect movie. Yeah. It's so good. Jamie, you just saw it. I thought I was thrilled. You, you liked it. I did like it saw it. I was thrilled. You liked it? I did like it.

Cool. I liked it a lot. And I'm not a big blockbuster gal. I'm not a big movie person. I did watch the documentary about Hulk Hogan and journalistic ethics twice. And that usually was a little more my speed. That one's not going to pass the Bechdel test. That's on me.

I really enjoyed this movie. It was so much fun. I watched it two times wow I did I did a Kalen I watched it one time and then I said you know what I could I could stomach this again which to me is like wow I must have really liked that movie I'm impressed yeah I don't like movies that much I know yeah welcome to our movie podcast I know episode what 50 there's uh it feels pretty breezy in comparison to like blockbusters now that are like two and a half hours like transformers and all that stuff it's a quick one yeah and it's also it's also in you know still before the era before like blockbusters had to be filtered through a blue filter. The whole thing is fucking blue. It's three hours long, and they're like,

but it's really about philosophy. And this movie is, I mean, it has met, you can unpack a lot, but they're not heaping it upon you. You can take it or leave it. It's a fun movie. I mean, directed by Steven Spielberg,

very competent director, one of my favorites. Well, I hope he uses that. Very confident. The Vagzal cast. Yeah, you're welcome for my incredible endorsement, Steven. Anyway, it's just such a terrific movie. It's kind of nice.

I was re-watching it. I mean, I kind of just wake up to it every day just in my head uh but like that it is a movie where it has a lot of setup and then once it lets go then it's just kind of like going and it doesn't necessarily stop other than when dr sattler and hammond eat ice cream like that's the only slow scene yeah like once the action starts but i love that scene though. Yeah. Yeah. You never had control. That's the illusion.

He's like, I dropped my, I think that scene would have been funnier if he dropped his ice cream spoon. Oh man. That's the thing. Like there's so much foreshadowing and like plant and payoff in this movie. And it just shows so much restraint. We don't meet T-Rex until an hour and three minutes into the movie.

Miss T-Rex. Miss T-Rex. Miss. Miss. Miss T-Rex. You can tell there's a bow. Because I had been on the Jurassic Park raft ride

multiple times before seeing this movie for the first time and then I went back to make sure that this story had started as this is going to be a roller coaster eventually and for sure it was because crichton rest in paradise apparently allegedly which is allegedly i think it's a i think it's a kaufman-esque prank and Crichton is still with us. But anyways, Crichton was writing the book, took a meeting with Spielberg talking about ER, apparently.

And he was like, hey, also, I like dinosaurs. And this is what men talk about at lunch. They're like, hey, I like trains and dinosaurs and fucking ladies. And Steven Spielberg said, well, what about dinosaurs? And so he knew this was going to be a movie before he finished the book and knew it was going to be a Spielberg movie, so he also knew it was going to be a roller coaster. Knowing that and then watching the movie again, I was like,

oh, this kind of informs the way a roller coaster would happen. You're not going to tote out the T-Rex right away. Yeah, that's like, ch-ch-ch-ch. Right, you've got to metaphorically ch-ch- to metaphorically... You've got to build to it. Oh, this is another theme park ride movie. Yeah, another roller coaster ride. You've had tons of them in the last couple episodes, too. We're going to get around to the country bears,

and I cannot wait. I'm sure that's a very pro-woman movie's gonna love it all right let's talk about the portrayal of women in this podcast in this movie in this podcast i don't know so as was hinted at earlier ms t-rex because all the dinosaurs are women they're female right i like that i like that all the dangerous killing machines are women but then but then also they are being kept in captivity by mostly men men so yeah i don't know steven your take but then they break free sorry then they break free well then that's actually one of my questions that i was curious to hear your thoughts on it because it is that thing where it's

like and that's the one thing i kind of liked about because it is that thing where it's like, and that's the one thing I kind of liked about Jurassic World that Chris Pratt's character was so like, they're female dinosaurs and he has this kind of like, like insistent, like OCD insistence that everyone refer to them as like she

and all that stuff. But like, I guess my thought is, we're allies. Yeah. We're dinosaurs, we're allies. We're not going to misgender these dinosaurs. But yeah, I guess my question is, does them all

being female really impact the narrative in a way and like how does it really affect it or i mean no just i was mostly saying it as a joke but well no i mean that's just my curiosity about it because it was really interesting when hasbro released the jurassic world toys they called them all he and like there's a big outcry in the community and stuff. So in Jurassic World, they're all still lady dinosaurs. Yeah, they're all still female, yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's just one of those things where I feel like it maybe just plays the most into

Dr. Sattler's line where, you know, women inherit the earth kind of thing. Like, the idea that maybe these dinosaurs are, like, taking back from, you know, the patriarchy in society by destroying it all or stuff like that. Well, it does play a significant role in the story in that they deliberately genetically engineer the dinosaurs to be all females so that they don't breed because they have to control their breeding. Right. But then life finds a way.

But okay, and this is maybe a stupid question from someone who just saw Jurassic Park for the first time. If, devil's advocate, they made all the dinosaurs men and there were no eggs to be stolen, wouldn't that have really fucked up the plot of the movie? Yes, but then how would they... In theory, if the dinosaurs were just coming and then they were like well there goes that one just like a bucket just like roaming around the park a bucket of slop like dino jizz come in the slop bucket all right that's jeff goldblum's job the dinosaurs come into the bucket well wouldn't they still need to be female to

lay the eggs or how do they do that? I think the ones that we see with B.D. Wong in the beginning, I think those were artificially inseminated. But then the ones later in the movie are real eggs. Right, that they find. Right, so that would fuck up that point in the plot. Yeah. I'm just being critical of Crichton.

Because that's what i came here to do but now he's dead and now i'm being disrespectful i can't believe he's been dead for almost 10 years yeah what did i think he was up to no idea being more anti-global warming stuff yeah he's a climate change denier he was he's dead he's dead now he's one with the earth which is fine according to him i mean he still is releasing novels which is the weirder part he what they still keep finding manuscripts of books he needs to chill out like they just released a new one this year like that's why i thought he wasn't dead because i was like i I've seen his name recently. Oh, but his ghost is just releasing books now. Shout out to the movie Ghost.

Shout out to the movie Ghost. Shout out to Crichton's Ghost, which is a movie that I will write starting the second this podcast finishes recording. I can't wait. Crichton's Ghost. More importantly than all the dinosaurs being female, let's talk about the actual human women in the movie. Dr. Ellie Sattler, a woman in STEM. She's a pale the actual human women in the movie. Dr. Ellie Sattler, a woman in STEM. She's a paleobotanist. Hell yeah.

And then there's Lex, who is a computer hacker. A computer whiz. Technopagan. Mm-hmm. Either way. I feel like that's what she'd grow up to be. What is a technopagan? Like, it was in that X-Files episode, but I almost imagine, like,

I was talking to somebody the other day, if there was, like, if her character was around in Jurassic World, she'd probably be, like, hacking into their systems to try and shut down the new park. It's, like, desecrating the memory of her grandfather or something. Okay.

I like it. I love hacking scenes, especially the further back you go, the crazier the hacking scenes get. The word mainframe is in vote quota i'm in the mainframe that's like on my bucket list of something to say and to know that that is actually what i mean to say yeah i sometimes will just say it to myself when i like i'm at duncan donuts i get into wi-fi i've hacked into the mainframe. I'm in the mainframe.

Anyways. Either way, she's a woman in STEM, I would say. Technology. So we've got two women in STEM, and then the only two women in the movie. End of women. I guess that's what I meant by my question with the dinosaurs being female. It's like, there's that thing

where it's like, would it pass the Bechdel test if they were talking about the dinosaurs being female. It's like, there's that thing where it's like, would it pass the Bechdel test if they were talking about the dinosaurs? Like, because it's like, does it count? Because they're not human. So like, is that part of that conversation? If they are talking about dinosaurs, if it's two women talking about dinosaurs, yes.

I would say it passes the Bechdel test because they're not human men. And also, we'll get to this later, but there's a scene where the two raptors are vocal with each other they're communicating with their stretch and i would say that passes the bechdel test stretch well we well wait we don't know their names big old stretch we don't know those those rapt names, so maybe it doesn't pass. Yeah, it's called Runner and Yeller. So we have these two women, and I like these two women a lot,

but they are surrounded by a whole slew of men, because there's Dr. Alan Grant, Dr. Ian Malcolm, John Hammond, the little boy Tim, Mr. Arnold, Muldoon, Gennaro, Dennis Nedry, B.D. Wong. Which brings us to the age-old Bechdel cast refrain. What if two or three of these characters were just named Cassandra? What would be different? Oh, I don't know. Fucking nothing. Yeah, exactly.

Make the lawyer be a woman. Have Mr. Arnold, although I would not trade Samuel L. Jackson in this role for the world. Let's leave him be. Let's leave him be. I did for one website I did a gender swap cast thing for this movie a couple years ago. Which I thought because Laura Dern was like an art house like

lynch darling at this time so I thought it would be fun if like Ryan Gosling was playing that and then having Elizabeth Moss be Grant. Like I thought that would be like a good switch. I like it. And then having Elizabeth Moss be Grant. I thought that would be a good switch. Ooh, I like it. And having Cate Blanchett be John Hammond. I think she'd rock the Cate really well. Oh, yeah.

I like it. For sure. I like that a lot. We'll link that in the... I'm interested in this. Yeah, yeah. I'll send you the link to it. It's fun.

Great. So the point is, it's a couple, I think, strong, great female characters surrounded by men. And then there's all these scenes, like the first scene you see, where they're unloading one of the raptors into the raptor paddock. And it's all men. And then there's another scene where Janera, the lawyer, goes to talk to the dude who's, I guess, in an amber mine. He's looking for amber.

And those are all men in that scene you see the scene where they're on the tour and it's all these jurassic park scientists all but one man there's one lady with a top bun everyone else is a man it's me it's you yeah you were in that you were in the baby when this movie came out but the point is, it's just crazy that we have to look at these scenes and really examine and study to be like, wait, is that a woman? Wait, is that over there? Because they're just almost always populated by men, and it's annoying that scenes like this default to just being filled with men

and there being no or maybe one woman. And I feel like with this story, it's possible to overanalyze it or give it more thought about how much thought was put into gender than Michael Crichton would ever. May he rest in peace. But, like, you know, it's like you can technically make the argument of, okay, we have this colony of all female dinosaurs, but they're being regulated and trying to be contained by men, but they're busting out and da-da-da. And, like, we can make this argument. I have a hard time believing that Michael Crichton or Steven Spielberg

or really anyone involved in this project in a high level actually thought about the role of gender that hard. So it's like, well, you can analyze it that way if it makes you feel better. But I don't think that they actually intended it to be that way. That's the beauty of art, though. It doesn't matter what the artist intended. But I don't want to intend art to give men more credit than they deserve. Right. True.

Right. Either way. Okay. So there's like three specific sequences that I want to talk about. And then a few other scenes, starting with the one that you already hinted at, where Malcolm is like, God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God.

Man creates dinosaurs. And then Dr. Sattler says, dinosaurs eat man. Women inherit the earth. And then they both look at her and they're like, oh, shit, I want to marry her. Bing, bing, bing. That's a good line. It's such a great but I would also

sorry argue that this is hearkening back to one of our favorite McSweeney's articles I'm the girl and I kick here's my line

where I say you know or Spice World girl power like it's like okay cool we got that moment thank you

sure and scene well yeah that could be if that was the only thing she does or like the only impressive thing she contributes to the story or anything like that no i just meant like the the line more than oh i see the care i mean the character obviously salary is a great character yeah but just like sometimes lines like that i don't know i feel manipulated by them where they're just like hey girls can do things too. And I was like, yeah, I know.

So put more girls in your fucking movie, you chode. Good point. But it would be much more, it would be more annoying to me if that was something she said and then none of her actions backed that up. Like she's like, women power. And then she's making out with someone. Right. So at least she goes on to do a whole slew of things.

Sure. Which is what I wanted to talk about next. Where, it's later in the movie, but all the power, they have to basically reboot all the systems and undo the damage that Dennis Nedry had done. Who, at this point in the story, is dead. R.I.P. R.I.P. He slipped on and then it was like just love that little detail the slide whistle or whatever yeah i love that scene though where he gets killed by the

dilapidators oh fuck it's so good but so there's a scene where john hammond is like maldun bring back my grandchildren and ellie's like, I'm going with him. So it was just like cool to see her making a choice, taking action, going and doing something. A lot of movies would have just had her stay behind, not do anything. Nurse Ian Malcolm back to health with his leg that's all fucked up. And I'd be like, hey, do you want to take a picture with me? Oh, I was thinking it would be like The Beguiled where they're like, oh, your leg is fucked up. I'm going to, yeah, I want to cut your leg off and then fuck you.

No, it's Jeff Goldblum. He just wants to take a perverted picture. Yeah, he doesn't actually have sex. He just wants to look enticed or whatever. Or enticing or whatever. Right. He really does just want to go home and feed his dogs. But that's what I find so interesting about Dr. Sattler.

Because I was trying to think of her. Because there is certain scenes in the movie where she takes the role of the person to knock the sense into some of the dudes. Yeah. But what I like about her character a lot and why like I mean she was my first crush growing up and all that stuff or whatever but the one reason why I really like her as a character in

these kind of movies is because she seems like she's the only person who's living in the moment during the movies everyone's kind of caught in their head space of like oh I should have like made this park better or like I hate kids and I need to learn how to like kids or whatever. She's like, all right, what do you need? What do we need to do?

Like, how can I? She's like the most, like how you're saying, like she's the most proactive character. She's like, oh, I'm going to stay behind and learn more about this sick Triceratops. Yeah. Or whatever. And I like that scene because it shows that whole scene where they encounter the sick Triceratops. And it's barfing. She pops the pimple on its tongue.

It's so gross. And she's like, well, why is it sick? Are they eating this West Indian lilac? It's poisonous. You really get to see her expertise. She knows what she's talking about. She knows what she's doing. So it's just like a cool moment.

So many movies, especially blockbusters, would have been been like she kind of can do a thing sort of but like we don't really get to see it or if we do it's for a second and then never again right or she gives the sick triceratops true love kiss and it's better wakes up yeah i'm i'm feel better now yeah and that's technically a great queer moment in film because the triceratops would be a woman remember when laura durn french that dinosaur really progressive moment right that's david lynch's jurassic park yeah okay so then after dr grant and the kids have like gone off somewhere and they appear to be safe, and then there's the scene where Mr. Arnold leaves to go turn the power back on, but he's taking a while because he's like, it would be three minutes.

And then it's more than that. Yeah, right. More time has passed. So she's like, something's wrong. Something happened. I have to go turn the power back on. And then in that moment, that's when Muldoon's like, I'll go with you. She was the one who had to be like,uldoon's like I'll go with you she was

wanting to be like I'm going I'm making the decision to go I gotta do this and he goes with her and then immediately as soon as they get outside he's like we're being hunted oh but before that happens John Hammond's like it should be me that goes because I'm a and you're a and she's like look I'm a and you're a and she's like look I'm a Republican I would love if that was their fundamental difference Laura Dern the twist is she's a Republican

I'm a Democrat and you're a Republican yeah no and she's like we can discuss sexism and survival situations when I get back. Which, again, sure, maybe that's another, like, oh, look at what I can do. But I've never interpreted it that way. I was just like, look, you go, girl.

But maybe it's because I'm simple. But that was the point. But, you know, if I had seen this movie when I was a kid, I wouldn't feel that way. But seeing as I saw it last week, I do feel that way. Sure. So they go. They get hunted she has to go on by herself

so she goes into the shed I was just when I was again like thinking about this movie for today as a kid when after I saw this movie anytime I swing from branches I would always like pretend I was her cause she her like her sick swing that she does she's like and then like lands in the water I just thought that was the coolest thing

yeah that was a good plant. Good swing. Stuck the landing. Yeah. So she goes in the shed, and then she does all the things she needs to do to turn the power back on. She's being, again, told what to do by a man. But that's not her area

of expertise. Exactly. Yeah. So she manages to do everything. All the systems come back online and then there's that great moment where she's like, Mr. Hammond,

I think we're back in business. And then a raptor bursts out. And what I really love about this is that she has to save herself.

The raptor explodes out into the room. She gets through the gate. Woman to woman combat. Yeah. And the

human succeeds over the raptor. Because the human, I guess, is smarter. Although the raptors have shown intelligence. They're systematically testing the fences for weaknesses. Anyway. Systematically. She beats him

with Sam Jackson's arm. That would have been a great moment. I that had happened she like grabs that mr arnold and then she's like oh sweet this is a weapon all right yeah good enough right because so she gets she saves herself she closes the door and then she like sort of okay and then mr arnold's arm falls on top of her she thinks hey i'm just resting my arm here. I know that you almost died, but let's have a casual arm rest. How many years of therapy will it take to bounce back from that?

So many. So many. The point is she saves herself. She doesn't have to have any man save her. It was a very exciting moment for me the next scene i wanted to talk about yes was when the kids are in the kitchen or like the whatever that area is like the guest services it's basically craft services they just turn the cameras and just yeah they're like oh hey look right and they're eating jello you know as craft. Right, and they're eating Jell-O, you know, as craft services always has.

And Lex sees the raptors and takes them into the kitchen. And the raptors can open doors. What the hell? The smart-ass lady dinosaurs figure out how to open doors. It's like a cat in an emergency on the news. It dialed 911. The cat figured out how to open a door saving all the people in the apartment complex

an exciting day here in Brighton that would happen in Brighton it would happen yeah this is my English news bit if like a dinosaur is like a cat they just like under the door like how cats can slide under the raptors just like on the you know blows its

nose on the thing and then just like on the you know blows its nose on the thing and then just slides itself basically like i can't yeah so the two raptors come into the kitchen lex with her younger brother tim she's the one who's like pulling him around like here follow me like she's doing all the things to save them it It's the sweet trick with the... The ladle. Yeah, and the oven thing, too, with the mirror. Oh, right, right, right, right, yeah. Very alpha big sis. And it could be, yeah, it could be because she's, like, the older one, the bigger one. But...

Sure, but, like, who cares? Right. She's the older one. Right, right, right, right. And the writer could have made the choice to, like, make the older one a boy and to have him be the one. In the book, Tim is the older one. Oh. The ages were switched. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. the older one a boy and to have him be the one in the book tim is the older one the ages yeah yeah

yeah okay cool so i like in the movie that they're like all right let's have the girl be the one who's spielberg one point yeah crichton still a climate change denier also dead he loses so yeah it was really cool to see lex being the to be like, I'm in charge here and I'm going to save my little brother. Yeah, I like that part. Oh, yeah. And she like closes the freezer, too. Right. Yeah.

So she actually it's it's interesting that the only now that I'm thinking about this, technically, I think in all the Jurassic Park movies, the only two people to kill dinosaurs are Lex freezing that raptor and then Malcolm's daughter, Kelly, kicking the with the gymnastic skills in the Lost World, kicking the raptor off on the spike. So it's only been two little girls killing dinosaurs in these movies. Hell yeah. I like that, though. Yeah. That's impressive. Yeah. But you're right.

She like the raptor ends up in the freezer, I think, because he was like chasing Tim into it. She was just horny like that, though. Yeah. That was impressive. Yeah, but you're right. She, like, the raptor ends up in the freezer. I think because he was, like, chasing Tim into it. She was just, oh, God. She was chasing Tim into the freezer. And then Lex runs up and locks the raptor into the freezer. Hell yeah. R.I.P. raptor. Yeah.

It froze to death in there, presumably. We don't know. Whatever. So then the final scene is when they're in the control room at the end. Ellie, like, runs to the computer. She's like, I gotta boot up the door locks. Because I guess she knows how to do that. Which, good for her.

And then the raptor starts coming in through the door. Because, again, raptors know how to open doors. Any door. Any door. They how to open doors. Any door. They've mastered all doors. All doors. Round doorknob. The rotating doors, there aren't any of those.

That would be fun if there was, though. Would her tail get stuck in the door? I know, we keep accidentally misgendering these dinosaurs. It depends on how advanced the door was. Because if the door had good sensors, then the door wouldn't close on an object in front of the door. So in defense of the doors, I'm sure that the raptor would have been fine. Good point.

Thank you. This is the door cast. Okay. So they're in the control room. and the raptor starts to come in and Grant can't hold the door by himself. So Ellie Sattler has to help him. Meanwhile, Lexi's like, wait a minute, a Unix system. I know this. She's the one to save the day for about two seconds.

And then the raptors come in through the glass but it was just cool like the choice could have been made where the little boy knows how to be a hacker but Tim is like useless in that scene he's just like

he's a kid well kids are useless hey go to school get a library card you dumbass he's a little kid I mean

that would have been I think maybe Spielberg was like thinking the end game was like oh well because there's the gun there and then like

Ellie and Grant are like trying to get the gun but hold the door and they're like Tim give us the gun and then Tim just shoots the raptor

and then we've got like our own traumatized like child well I never understood why they don't say like Tim grab that gun

give it to an adult, help us. But he's just like. Yeah, maybe Spielberg. Because, yeah, I mean, it's so like, because he's just sitting there, like, patting his head, just like, ah, because he is a kid. Tim reminded me of my little brother, where, like, I would freeze a dinosaur for my brother. And also, he was such a wimpy little kid. He was afraid of water until he was like seven. So I was like, oh, he's like my brother.

He's probably afraid of the ocean. Yeah, I mean, I related too. I probably would be too afraid to do anything in that situation. Just a paralyzed little boy child. But yeah, I wonder if Spielberg maybe just didn't want to have the imagery of a kid picking up a gun. I wonder because that's definitely like a... He's all about family, family dynamics. So he's responsible. I mean, he did remove the guns a... He's all about family, family dynamics. So he's responsible.

I mean, he did remove the guns from... Two points for him now. But he did remove the guns from one version of E.T. Like, digitally remove all the guns. Oh, whoa. I didn't know that. Three points for his feelings. Yeah. I'm excited to see, because this ending scene is really cool.

It's hard to imagine how it would have originally been where Grant was going to kill the raptors with a crane that was sitting in the visitor center. He was going to grab a raptor and then throw it at the bones and that's how it originally was supposed to end. But I think they were so impressed by the CGI test of the T-Rex

and they liked the character so much. They're like, let's bring her back. The very end. I don't know. It feels more... It would feel kind of gross if like our hero just like straight up murdered two dinosaurs. Like the whole movie, the whole movie is like trying to say that they're like animals and they're just natural creatures. And then it's like. It's not their fault that they were genetically engineered and put in this century that they don't belong in.

By a bunch of horny dudes. It's not their fault. Yeah. Here's what I'll say. If I were to put Alfred Molina in this movie. Okay. Here's what I'll say. If I were to put Alfred Molina in this movie. Okay. Here it is. Here's what I would do.

I would keep the casting as is. What I would do is I would pull like a Deep Roy in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory Tim Burton version where Deep Roy plays all of the Oompa Loompas, like hundreds and hundreds of Deep Roys. So this would take most of the women out of the movie, but I think it is the move to make Alfred Molina all of the dinosaurs. Hundreds of him. I've decided not to endorse this. He's a character actor. He could really bring something special to each dinosaur role.

I would love to see Alfred Molina play sick Triceratops. Oh, God. Somebody should Photoshop that for sure. Yeah. Because they just Photoshopped, what, like cats in there, the dinosaurs from that comedy in there. So now just calls out for Bechdel cast fans to Photoshop Alfred Molina in those same positions.

Please make Alfred Freddy into sick triceratops. A real missed opportunity, but, you know, it's an all-right movie. Hey, listen to this segue. It's about love, the love that you have for Alfred Molina and how I like that there's no discernible love story in this movie yes yeah that's another thing that would have been so and I went into the movie just knowing who the cast was I was like oh well someone's gonna I mean they both want to fuck her it seems well yeah they're horny dinosaur guys right right but here's something I've been confused about so Dr. Grant tells dr malcolm that he and

ellie are together and i always assumed that that was just because dr grant has a crush but then i was like are they together they kind of like at one point ellie calls him honey and they like hug a lot and i'm like maybe they are low-key dating but the movie just makes not a big deal of it at all that because like grant's such a sourpuss that he's probably, he doesn't seem like a PDA type. Right. And there was definitely more, because I have all the trading cards and stuff for Dresspring,

there's cut shots and cut moments where they are more physical. Oh, okay. But I think maybe, there's even one where they high five, which, again, adds more to their weird asexual, I mean, it's more on Sam Neill's part, not on Laura Dern's part. I love to high five my sex partners.

That's honestly how I initiate sex. High five. What's up? We're doing this now? Kayla and I just had sex on the air. I'm very honored to be here. Big Bechtel moment. It ends with Grant like wanting the kids or being like

hey kids and then he's like hugging them they're in his arms on the helicopter he's looking at pelicans so the second someone shits their pants he's like actually I'm out I know that they're too old to be shitting their pants but one of them is gonna at some point tim throws up well he was electrocuted

so he probably right right he's having bowel problems the second the second side effect the second one of those kids takes a shit he's gonna be like you know i remember why i hate kids uh but yeah if any i was gonna just say if anything because it's it's that thing where it's like Grant is almost the main character in that sense where he's the one who goes on this journey to like oh I understand kids now or something you know but it's like kind of nice that I think in this

story in specific that Dr. Sattler isn't like you need to have kids or we need to get married or anything she's just like yeah kids are cool I guess maybe I don't know whatever it's like almost like I don't know it's like they kind of nice they don't like make that a big dramatic thing at all or anything right yeah there were a lot of points in the movie where i'm like oh this could have been turned into a weird romantic kind of i mean all throwaway moments but blockbusters do it all

the time and it was kind of like a pleasant surprise it was like oh no they're just going to keep moving forward with the story. Great. I like it. I'm a big fan of that. There's that famous scene in Jurassic World where Bryce Dallas Howard is running away from the T-Rex in high heels. And it's famous because it's so absurd, especially because T-Rex runs at 32 miles an hour and she could not outrun him especially in heels so i just want to say that i really like that dr sattler's costume in this movie was very reasonable no one felt any need to put her in high heels for no reason and uh another thing with a lot of blockbusters is that the one adult woman is very hot very sexual we already talked about about Michael Cretton making all his scientists hot.

But she wasn't... Cries and hands unite. She wasn't... She wasn't overly sexualized or even sexualized at all as far as I interpreted it. Like, she's just wearing practical clothes

that you would wear on a dinosaur safari. I mean, I think her khakis are the same length as Gennaro's, you know? Like... He's wearing some short shorts. Yeah.

Yeah. I also noticed in... Cutoffs. Very, very sensible. Is he a never nude? I love his death scene. He just runs into the bathroom, and then the T-Rex is like... Yeah.

We're Foley artists. With dinosaurs, you can't help... People are going to rip this audio and use it in their movies and then we're gonna make a lot of money please donate to our paypal account we'll get into that in a second yeah hey do you wanna hear me bark like a dog pretty good really good pay me before you use that clip

one last thing BD Wong Henry I think is his name. He says, all vertebrate embryos are inherently female anyway. They require an extra hormone given at the right developmental stage to make them male. Proving. Proving?

Because this movie proves this fact that no one else knew or studied or anything. Crichton heads unite. That all embryos are female, which is why male cats have as many nipples as female cats. This has been Cat Facts with Caitlin. Okay. Yeah, that is inherently poignant that women aren't going to inherit,

they're going to re-inherit the earth again in that way. Yeah. Movies saying. Yeah. Yesies saying. Yeah. Yes, queen. All right, let's talk about if this movie passes the Bechdel test or not. Okay.

I made a case for the raptors talking to each other. You're right. No, it's stupid and wrong. There's a scene that happens off screen where women talk, but it does not pass the Becho test where lex goes up to grant and she's like she thought i should ride with you because it would be good for you but they were talking about they're referring to grant man so it does not pass here's the problem with this movie

is that the two female characters are not even in the same room or scene for most of the movie but there is the scene in the control room at the end whenever they run in and lex says we can call for help and sattler says we got to reboot the system first i think that's a pass that i did make note of that and that might be by the skin of its teeth might be, by the skin of its teeth, might be where it passes. Yeah. For me. That's what, but it is a barely pass. A barely pass. And it's the only time where you basically see those two.

And it's a classic. I mean, it's the thing we've encountered, I would say, in at least ten movies we've talked about now, where it's it's the problem isn't the female characters that are written it's just the fact that there are no female characters for them to interact with at length ever right yeah yeah that was my question it was like it just seems like feels like every time it's like they can't have two women together because that's oh we've already hit our maximum or something like it just seems like these movies are so afraid. Are so afraid to just put two. That somehow, yeah. And I think that this era, like 93,

is still a time where it's like, well, why would we put two women together in one scene? What purpose would that serve? We filled our quota with two women characters total. We don't need more. Right, right. And we're not forcing them to hook up all the time, which is good, but like, you know, good, but, like, you know.

So I would say that that was a scene where it passed for me. But I was still like, oh, man, you were doing so well. Yep. But it's another Princess Leia kind of thing where it's like, well, one female character is great. And then we have, you know know a few women on the fringe but other than that you know it's just like one really well-written female character and only men for her to talk to right well that's what i like about your podcast so much because it's like it's almost that idea of like well because i love the transformers episode where you're like well this it doesn't feel right to pass it because

it even though it gets in like logically but in the spirit of like what the test is it's like does it really actually like in that sense of like this movie where like it has a lot of these like mic drop like kind of empowering moments and i remember steven spielberg and behind the scenes stuff saying that he made lex the older one made the woman in you know made lex interested in computers and made her the hacker because he was like, these are aspirational elements that he was adding. Like, in his words, that's what he was saying, that he made those choices to do that because he wanted to inspire little girls

to get into technology and stuff. But it's like, but at the same time, like, oh, but it actually doesn't feature two women having a conversation with each other. But that's not about men. So it's like, it's just like, I like that you guys talk about that a lot because it's like, I don't know. You're that you guys talk about that a lot. Cause it's like,

I don't know. You're welcome. Oh, okay. I mean, thank you. You're welcome. Now we both did it.

Yeah. Hey, let's rate the movie on our nipple scale. I'm going to give it three and a half nipples. I think it might be a little high. No, I feel good about three and a half because Dr. Sattler is a great character. She does a whole bunch of shit. She makes a lot of decisions that influence the story.

She is very proactive. She unfortunately doesn't have the same number of memorable memorable lines or like great monologues like malcolm has i do like that she says the whole like men get eaten and women inherit the earth that's the line right so i i like her and i also like that lex is like you said like she was decisions were made to make her active she does things she fucking boots up the door locks good for her but because there are so few women when there could be many more again we identified several characters that like why not make this a woman it's just a sea of men with like tiny little sprinkles of a strong women in it um so that's why it gets a three and a half from me and the

nipples belong to you know what i'm pretty sure that triceratops even though reptiles do not have nipples that looked like an animal that would have nipples so okay that is more revealing about you than anything else you're just like that looks like there's some milk in there. Didn't it, though? I don't know. I mean, I would like to believe that there is. I just had a disgusting thought. Because it's both very cheesy and harkens back to an episode that, by the time this comes out, will have been a long time ago.

Spider-Man 2 reference. got melina on the brain you know that line where where aunt what's her name is like i believe there's a hero in all of us what if she said that but said milk i believe there's some milk in all of us that was the vibe you were just you were aunt may uh with it anyways i finished my mike's hard lemonade i finished and i'm really thinking at a higher level steven what would you like to rate the movie oh i would give it three sweaty lawyer nipples out of five. Again, for the reasons that this movie has... I mean, I think, like, comedian Rhea Butcher, she summed up Jurassic World in a really great way, which is like a 90s version of a feminist movie,

where it's like, let's give the main female character shit, and then, like, that's how you learn that she's empowered or whatever. And I feel like even this movie still suffers from a lot of that same thing um but it is like there is those badass moments and i think again like the through line is that at least dr sattler's character she like stays true to herself and she doesn't like she's kind of on her own path that you it's kind of like mysterious she's kind of like she kind of holds the rest of the movie at arm's length which i kind of like she's kind of like amused by like what's going on and concerned but she's never like and she's in the moment and i kind of like that about her character my favorite scene is when she's crying and then she's like i need ice cream and she eats some ice cream because

women be crying women be eating ice cream but But like, honestly, sometimes they are. I've done it. For instance, me yesterday. Let me take you back a full 12 to 16 hours. Anyways, Stephen, I'm sure you've cried and eaten ice cream. Have you done that? Oh, hell yeah, of course. Okay, it's not a gender thing.

It's a human thing. I saw a man crying into ice cream just the other day. Not to brag. Yeah. Whoa. But I saw it yeah i mean i've probably cried while eating ice cream while watching this movie wow this is a movie i do cry to by the way it's more of a human response exactly it's not a gendered response everyone wants to cry and eat ice cream these are things that all people want except for lactose intolerance they're mut mutants. You're fucking freaks. This is my new frontier of people I'm prejudiced against.

Steampunks, you're okay now. Lactose intolerant people, you're on my radar. I'm coming for you. What if I told you I was lactose intolerant, which I am? I knew that, and now I feel bad. First, because I didn't remember, and second, because I just declared war on you and I can't take it back. I'll fight back. I'm a strong, independent woman.

You're very strong, but you're calcium deficient because you're not drinking as much milk as me. I'm getting. Okay. Don't even get me started on how people should not be consuming dairy or any mammals after infancy. That sounds like some real lactose intolerant propaganda to me. I breastfed from my mom just this morning, and I feel great. Hey, would you like to rate the movie?

Oh, yeah. I'm going to give it three nippies. Okay. And I'll give two of the nippies. Well, I'll give one nippy to little Tim, because I can relate with being afraid and the youngest and being completely useless. So you got to give one to Tim given and then I'm going to give the other two to

to the sick dinosaur. Because because it has nipples. It has it has nipples. And it's I just love that a sick dinosaur you never think of a dinosaur as sick. So in that way, it fucking changed the way I think about dinosaurs. And specifically female dinosaurs. What great representation. I never thought of female dinosaurs as sick before I saw this movie. And then I realized I was so fucking wrong. That's okay three but ed but uh for for for

serious talk because like many movies we've discussed the central female character is wonderful but she's not given really uh any or barely anyone to talk to and i sort of am inclined to discard like well all the dinosaurs are female. Right. Right. But they're dinosaurs. So not to trigger any dinosaur listeners we have out there, but you're dinosaurs. So in that way, I'm going to give it a three. Perfect. Stephen, thank you so much for being here. No, I'm really happy you guys asked me.

I really love this podcast a lot. So I'm happy to have been on it. Awesome. Where can people find you online? You can always find me at Stephen Ray Morris on Twitter and Instagram. And then my Jurassic Park podcast is at SeeJurassicRight on things. And, like, yeah, it's just people sharing stories of their childhood that only relate to Jurassic Park and dinosaurs

because that's the niche that I'm trying to fill. You found it, baby. You're doing great work. Very important. Yep. You can follow us at Bechtelcast on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook. Hey, come see us live in New York in September.

For the Cinderblock Comedy Festival. What's the date? What's the place? September 9th. We'll post about it. Hell fucking yeah. See you there. See you there.

Also, if you want to give us money to alleviate the financial burden that is being alive, but mostly doing a podcast. To be fair, listeners, none of us asked to be born. But if you want to help us with some of our production costs for the podcast you can donate a few dollars on paypal which is an evil corporation but what else is there write us a check for more information watch the hulk hogan journalistic ethics documentary twice but you can go to paypal.me slash bechtel cast we'd appreciate any donation you would care to give that'll do it.

Women inherit the earth. Bitch. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio

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