The Bechdel Cast - Legally Blonde

Episode Date: May 28, 2020

On this special *unlocked* episode of The Bechdel Cast originally released on our Patreon (aka Matreon) in December 2017, Jamie and Caitlin discuss Legally Blonde! Become a Matron at patreon.com/bechdelcast!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP on Twitter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's right, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name

is Caitlin Durante. And welcome to a very special episode of the Bechdel cast. We have a little treat for you today. So if you're new to the show, we'll catch you up in a second. But for our loyal listeners, we are unlocking a much demanded episode of the Bechdel cast today from our Patreon aka Matreon page. So what you're going to hear today is an episode that people who do not subscribe to our patreon have been asking for us for years and uh all of our matrons have been sneakily enjoying for a long time but it's the legally blonde episode yes we recorded and released this quite some time ago i think it's around two 2018 yeah two years ago at least. So it's one of our older episodes, and it's been behind the paywall. But we decided, hey, we could use a break.

Now more than ever. And yeah, what a delightful movie and episode to share with people. So we decided to share it. It's unlocked. Yeah, so it's unlocked. And if you like this episode and you're not already a matron, it will hopefully give you an idea of what our matron episodes are like. They're a little looser. They're fun.

We don't have to go into all the detail about explaining what the Bechdel test is. You already know if you're a matron. We're just like, you got it. But if this is your first episode interesting choice of first episode but we will get you caught up so uh we since we don't introduce it this way in in the episode we're unlocking the Bechdel test is a media metric uh invented by cartoonist Allison Bechdel sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test that requires a piece of media have the following qualifications it has an exchange in which two female identified named characters talk to each other about something other than a

man for two lines of dialogue does it usually happen not so much but today's movie might fare a little bit better than normal jamie can we can we demonstrate the Bechdel test and how one might pass? Okay. Hey, Jamie. Hey, Caitlin. Would you join me in a little bend and snap choreographed move with me today? That's so polite. That's such a polite way to refer to it.

Would you care to engage in a bit of a bend and then immediately followed by a snap uh well yes caitlin i would love that oh thank you so much we're gonna have to do it separately in separate rooms because we were still social dishing of course but uh i think that would be a nice little activity for us to make us feel closer together. Amen, baby. A woman. Wow. Wow.

Look at her challenging the status quo, changing the world as we know it. Girl boss. Yeah. So we're excited to be unlocking this episode for your enjoyment. If you enjoy it, like Caitlin was saying uh check out our patreon it's patreon.com slash Bechdel cast it's five bucks a month and you get two extra full-blown bonus episodes of the Bechdel cast a month and it's it's a little casual and it's also we tend to do less popular movies there maybe stuff that's a little more niche uh little and the episodes are

just they're just silly fun stuff and also there's an episode on doubt in there what's your wait what's your favorite matreon episode outside of this one because this is right this is a quite good one if you don't mind my saying so i agree um oh my goodness i I love our Christmas Prince episodes. Yes. There's never a bad time for it. We also have extra Titanic episodes over there. If you could have possibly needed one, they're there. We just have a lot of fun stuff. Yeah. Blue Frame Roger Rabbit's over there. Into the Spider-Verse is over there. We've We've got, oh, and we, one of my favorite things about the Matreon is we do absurd themes, such as.

Yes. Zack Martron. We've got Pagentuary. We've got. Portman July. Portman July, which we did not observe in July, but we did do America July. We did Cher March. Yes.

Cher March recently. And it's a nice place. Also, the community on the Matreon is really lovely. And I mean, we have the greatest fans on every feed, but it's a very wholesome, lovely place to be. And you get, I think, over 50 additional full blown episodes of the Bechdel cast when you sign up. Yeah, I think we're close to if not exceeded 60. So you get access to the entire catalog when you join the Matreon now. So now's the time if you're able. Highly encourage, highly recommend.

Freaky Friday. That was a fun one. Oh, yeah. We did Ghost Month. Yes. In which we did not cover the movie ghost because we already did that on the main feed with nicole byer of course but we did the original ghostbusters movie from 84 or whatever and then we did the all-female reboot we did pregnancy june everything is just all of our themes are the worst but in the best way and you have to you know, we highly recommend you join the community because it's really, really fun.

Yes. Without further ado, please enjoy this very special Unlocked episode, Legally Blonde. On the Bechdel cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin' vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. Hi! It's a bonus episode of the Bechdel cast.

It is a bonus episode of the Bechdel cast. I think we should address what's happening here first. So we released two, this is a Matreon, Patreon-only episode of the Bechtelcast. Very exclusive. We were locked and loaded a month in advance with two bonus episodes for this month, and then realized that our doubling down on Titanic, that was the original plan. Maybe someday we'll release some of the moments that hit the cutting room floor, but altogether we came to the conclusion that both covering the same movie particularly covering the same movie while pretty aggressively drunk was not the premium content

that you subscribe to the podcast right yeah i went back and listened to that titan the second titanic episode it is a disaster and Isn't that bad? It's not good. Okay. Well, just to give ourselves a pat on the back, we reconvened. We replanned. We both had a bad feeling that we were both too drunk and too saying the exact same things, which is that we like Titanic.

Over and over. And we've come back with a clear mind and a full heart. I'm sober, although I'm sick. I don't know if you can hear it in my voice, but I do not feel well. I've had two beers. It's vacation. Jamie has been activated. She hasn't been around for literally a full calendar year.

Everyone's going to have to deal with it. Sure. But we are fully prepared for today's episode, which is on Legally Blonde. Woo! We just watched it together. We are in Caitlin's bed. I feel like that's the bonus episode way, kind of.

Yeah. The audio is always a little worse, and we are sitting in my bed recording on my iPhone. It's, well, we shouldn't tell them that. I mean, we have really good equipment everywhere we go we're swamped with with the finest of microphones aristotle no i like that we said we're in the bed and then it's like maybe people were like maybe aristotle is also in the bed adjacent to the bed anyways all i have to say we are recording and releasing this on a rather tight turnaround because we were

so prepared that we got drunk and did a bad job. So. But I feel good about this episode we are about to do. Me too. We both have a wealth of notes. We sure do. So what is your history with Legally Blonde? Legally Blonde, I believe

so this movie came out in 01. I was too young to see this movie when it came out, for sure. I think I saw it at some point. My friend in middle school, I think, had a copy of it, and we watched it at a sleepover. And then I think I saw it again in high school, and possibly again. I feel like I've seen this movie maybe three times. Like, I'm pretty, I know the general beats of it, but there was a lot of details that i forgot i like this movie

i remember liking it and i think like this was one of those viewing experiences that i was like kind of clenching my butt a little bit because i was like oh i hope that this movie was as fun as i remember it being oh sure which generally i think it was generally yeah yes i went for many many years without seeing this movie i didn't see it until i was a grad student at boston university where i was getting my master's in screenwriting i don't like to bring it up but i'll be god damn a classmate of mine did a project on legally blonde so i was like well i guess i gotta see it and i think I didn't necessarily avoid it for so long but I didn't actively seek it out because it's the type of movie that doesn't

really appeal to my sensibilities. Well yeah given your history I mean I'm surprised that I wasn't more into Legally Blonde I think it was just like I wasn't the right age when it came out. Yeah sure. Yeah because I would I would have been very indelibly blonde if I'd been old enough to see it when it was released. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Generally it's a fun movie. I'm trying to think of movies that we have covered. I think Mean Girls is the main one that jumps to mind of like, I'm very leery of covering movies that, you know, it's like, I try to read sort of what's been written about the movie, especially in regards to gender-based topics. Right.

But this is one of those movies where there's 5 million clickbait articles about why Legally Blonde is a feminist masterpiece. And I'm always extremely leery of movies that have a million listicles written about what a feminist masterpiece it is because usually that means that there is a fundamental issue right because a lot of quote-unquote feminist masterpieces have to do with like this is feminism that's palatable for a wide audience as opposed to that said i still think the movie does pretty well that's interesting i have not read any of those i've heard a lot of them i mean mean girls

there's a billion of them and then there's some about specific characters like lydia deets in feminist icon beetlejuice oh sure there's a million listicles every fucking halloween about how she's a feminist icon when she's right and she's not because beetlejuice is. Sometimes they pick the only. Because Feminist Icon, Beetlejuice is the only. That took a second to hit me. I know. I was like, why are you not reacting to the amazing joke? Vacation Jamie's cards are lowered. Her brain's operating on a lower.

And you also, you played it so straight. Wow. Yeah, obviously, Beetlejuice is the feminist. Feminist icon? Beetlejuice is the only feminist icon in the movie. But all that to say, listicle feminism is stupid. Yeah. And I'll say for the five trillionth time, even though they'll still write up some of my shit every once in a while bustle can kiss my

ass in terms of like corporate palatable feminism funded by a male's hedge fund so like it's a tricky but again legally blind mostly does well okay i'm done okay got it should i do the recap let's okay l woods is a sorority sister in her senior year of college. Hot. What is it? Delta Nu? I don't even know what the name is. I don't know.

She goes to a fake, it's like C-U-L-A, which is basically UCLA. Kula. Right. She basically goes to UCLA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A good school. Uh-huh. So she is about to graduate.

She has a boyfriend named Warner, who she thinks is about to propose to her. And she's very excited about it. And all of her sorority sisters are very excited that she's about to be proposed to. But turns out he takes her to dinner to instead break up with her because he's like, I'm going to Harvard Law School. He says something to the effect that like, I need a Jackie and you're a maryland basically yeah it's like you're too like he views her he views her even though we know very early on in the movie she has a 4.0 gpa at cooler yeah we don't know how hard that is but she has one she has the highest gpa in her sorority we hear a lot of this but yeah he's looking for a convention he's looking for an east coast elite right he

doesn't take her seriously she he's like you know i need a someone serious and i just this has been fun but i cannot take you seriously so she is devastated and she decides that in order to earn his love back and prove that she is worthy of his love, she's also going to go to Harvard Law School. We will get into this because Warner, while the worst across the board, has the right to break up with someone. Even if it's for a shitty reason, everyone has the right to break up with anyone else. That is just something that they do not tell you for some reason that sometimes if

someone says i don't want to be in a relationship with you anymore you have to be like well i don't feel great about that but okay like right anyways yes that is a fundamental issue with this movie and so is her behavior after that where she basically shapes her entire future around essentially stalking him to try to win him back. It's not essentially stalking, she is following him. But we'll get there. So she does put in the work to study for and take the LSATs and, you know, do this video essay. With the support of her.

And the video essay is iconic. Directed by a Coppola. A Coppola. We learn later in the movie, possibly Sophia. We don't know. I don't know. She would later go on to direct the worst movie I've ever seen, The Beguiled. You're being dramatic. But she puts in all the work and she manages to get accepted to Harvard Law School. And so she shows up and on the first day she's like, hi, Warner. And he's like, oh, what are you doing here again totally fair reaction

yeah this movie would have you believe the opposite of like yeah of course she's here like whatever anyways well I mean so many movies depict like a romantic pursuit in the worst possible ways oh god just hang around long enough yeah, just wear them down until they agree to be in love with you. The wear them down narrative is honestly terrible. But sometimes I'm like, maybe there's something to this. But guess what? There's not, you know. Okay.

Sorry. Yeah. Okay. So she's like, yeah, I'm here. And, you know, I'm showing you that I can be taken seriously. But she immediately learns that he, over the summer, has gotten engaged to Vivian, the Jackie that he was looking for. Yeah, Vivian Van Hula Hoop or whatever. Yeah.

Kensington or something like that. Kensington the 47th. And she's played by Selma Blair and she's a by selma blair and hot she's a little b at first but so a huge b at first to a comical degree that i would argue does not make narrative sense anyways continue agree so then she's like okay well i will steal him back now that's my new plan but that's not her idea that's jennifer coolidge's idea yeah jennifer coolidge i've is she not french right so there's this whole sequence she's like oh this is the worst day of my life my one true love has gotten engaged to someone else i have to get a and then Jennifer Coolidge is like I'm old and I'm alone the UPS man so hot

hi hi I'm Jennifer Coolidge she's you know listen she's a fellow Emerson lion and I respect her she's our god fuck fuck that school I stopped paying any bills but like also she is one of the esteemed graduates

of Emerson College Jennifer Coolidge But also, she is one of the esteemed graduates. Oh, amazing. I remember some college. I remember college. Well, yeah, she gives Elle the idea that she needs to steal Warner back. So she's like, okay, I'll just do that. So then she starts to really take her studies seriously and prove to her classmates and her professors that she is smart because the thing about her is that she's like still this you know bel-air raised wealthy blonde white girl who is very privileged and you know a sorority gal in a very stereotypical way where she's like oh my god like getting into

harvard was hard and no one takes her seriously right so she's like i need to impact there too she starts to like really buckle down and prove to everyone that she is intelligent and that she is capable and in so doing she manages to land an internship with one of her professors calhan played by Mm-hmm. And then that leads to a storyline where she helps with this murder case where one of her former sorority sisters, who graduated a few years ahead of her, is accused of murdering her husband. Brooke.

Brooke Taylor. Van Hula Hoop. Sorry, yes. Every wealthy woman's name is Van Hula Hoop. So because they have this sisterhood, Elle and Brooke bond, and she's like, yeah, I'm going to look out for you. Meanwhile, Callahan, who ends up being a predatory scumbag, is like, I think my client's guilty. I'm barely going to help her.

And then... To be fair, she looks pretty fucking guilty for a while. What does guilty look like, Jamie? Like standing over your husband's dead body covered in his blood. Oh, sure. But anyways, continue. So the movie ends with her helping with this case to the point where Brooke fires Callahan

after he has groped Elle. And it's been made clear to her several times that he does not believe her. Mm-hmm. Brooke is a good character. I like her a lot. Yeah. So she fires Callahan. She hires Elle, who is still only in her first year of law school, to defend her in this murder case.

Objectively, on paper, terrible idea. Right. And as capable and as pro-Elwoods as I am, really a lucky break that she wins the case and immediately gets a confession from a brunette who promptly goes to jail. I'm not pro-sending brunettes to jail. But sure, I mean, maybe it's intentional that she's sending brunettes to jail but sure I mean maybe it's intentional that she's a brunette

maybe it's just a coincidence no it is for sure because there are barely any women of color in this movie the way that the movie indicates don't root for this one is with brunette hair that's literally what happened that's true

the characters we are conditioned to root for are obviously Elle brunette hair. Yeah. That's literally what happened. Anyways, sorry. That's true. Yeah, I mean. The characters we are conditioned to root for are obviously Elle, Jennifer Coolidge, Brooke. Those are the three big ones, and they're all blonde white women. And Vivian's character, who later comes around, but at the beginning she has brown hair. The killer ends up being brunette. Right.

The poorly handled gay character,id is also well i guess she's she's got some weird highlights it's unclear what her natural hair color is but i think she's brunette yeah she's got darker hair basically she gets a lucky break pretty much although it's through her like sort of skill and deductive reasoning but she manages to like crack the case they win and everything's great and she has a dumb line where she's like hair care is essential any cosmo girl would know that or something like that and then yeah she wins and then there's like the graduation at the end she's like at the top of her class and meanwhile warner sucks and now she and vivian are BFFs. Best friends, which the story does go out of its way to be like,

by the way, they're best friends and Warner ended up alone, which is exciting. I also didn't mention at all the sort of romantic subplot, although it doesn't really end up being that romantic until the very end, with Luke Wilson's character. It's flirte from the beginning. And a star turn by Luke Wilson's middle part. Lots of crazy.

2001 was a big moment for the middle part. Yes. Yeah. We've got to take a quick break. We've got some bending and snapping to do, but then we'll come right back. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered.

There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurarts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved

country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. guest, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right, the queen of comedy

herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh my God, I would love it.

I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind. Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music and

I just was like, who is this person? I gotta hawk this slalom, Ludi. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum.

Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions, like how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Santer. The only difference between the

person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career. Without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So that's the story. And there is an awful lot to unpack. I have pages and pages of notes. Shall we go by character or topic? God. Well, this is the fun part about the bonus episode. You get to hear part of the process. Yeah, right?

So I kind of want to start just by saying that I think the reason that I'm kind of lukewarm, ooh, Luke Wilson, lukewarm about... Luke, your little middle part. I fall in the middle part. Yeah, yeah. In regards to this movie. So the first, like, two act, it's really only, only like an act three of the movie where all of her sort of empowerment happens and she turns around and it goes from her doing everything that she's doing

because she's trying to win back her boyfriend and she's entirely motivated by proving herself worthy to a man well let's let's start with that then. Because that is, and there's two prominent examples that come to mind. I'm sure there's other examples that I'm not thinking of. But in regards to, I mean, and there's also examples of the opposite of a man chasing a woman in order to prove himself and wear her down. But this weird plot, which at the beginning of the series, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend duplicates exactly,

is a woman who has been scorned or rejected or is feeling very insecure because of a man, decides to uproot her entire life in order to relocate and prove herself to a man and then in doing so discovers herself in the process i do not like this setup at all and it really frustrates me because i like this movie but the inciting incident to this movie is just like all i it's i don't know like there's a lot of moments in this movie in particular where it's like, there are so many seeds for very wrong thinking that is being implanted into young girls' heads

that I really don't like. Of just, like, you know, the only way to realize your own potential is to first be rejected by a man and then change everything about you like it's almost little little mermaidy like that would be another example of this of like my current form isn't working so what do i change and let's make all the necessary adjustments and it does like you're saying like the third act does have l realizing oh i actually am. But logistically, she never would have recognized her own potential if Warner hadn't broken up with her. And I don't like that. I think that's so frustrating. Same. Yes. I was trying to think of movies where there is a female protagonist who pursues

something like going to law school and becoming a lawyer just because she's interested in that already and not because she's motivated by a man and i had trouble thinking of examples well one because there are just so few movies with a female protagonist and the ones that do have a female protagonist it's often a rom-com or something where she is just straight up pursuing a man and that's the main storyline and to be fair that's not to say there aren't any examples i just no no no i know my like sick sore throat head well i'm having trouble thinking well i also don't think that like unless there's some sort of like and it's this the narrative of a woman going to law school because she is interested in law is not a

particularly compelling log line for like a woman goes to law school because she is interested in law is not a particularly compelling log line for like a woman goes to law school because she's interested in the law and is smart is a great thing but maybe not the most exciting story so i get but but again that does not justify the ends to to to this true but it doesn't even have to i mean you know law going to law school and becoming a lawyer is just an example some but some sort of either professional or creative pursuit that a woman just does because that's what she wants to do and not because she's motivated by proving her worth to a man. And even if she meets a romantic partner when she is pursuing that thing, that is a far better precedent to set. It's like she followed whatever her ambition was and worked hard and happened to meet this great person.

Like, that's the right idea. Chasing a man in order to discover your own potential is just not a good message to be sending, particularly if you're aiming at a younger slash teen audience, which this movie is. Right. Well, it is nice to see a female character like Elle who has a lot of drive and determination. Like, she is extremely driven to the point where she, within a matter of maybe a couple weeks, studies for and does well enough on the LSATs to get into Harvard.

Although... Murder the LSATs. Like, Elle Woods is, with a lot of flaws, does well enough on the LSATs to get into Harvard. Okay, murder the LSATs. Like, Elle Woods is, with a lot of flaws, I think a really good character. I think she's great. And part of that is, like, nostalgia attachment, but I really do like her.

I agree. I like that she is extremely driven and active. Her motivation at the beginning and throughout most of the movie is misguided and it does it does turn around because by the end that storyline with warner resolves itself by he comes around he's like actually i just saw you in that case and you are the woman i've wanted this whole time i can take you seriously now and she's like well she's like i've been waiting so long for you to hear this but if i want to be a partner in a law firm by the time i'm 30 i'm gonna need a boyfriend who isn't such a bonehead and to be honest caitlin clapped and i was crying so however it worked to me that's kind

of one of those moments where it's like cool line cool feminist line and right like so i think that this more responsibly than a lot of movies of its type but does play into the like you go girl style of feminism that and here's i'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this because i my notes kind of looped in on themselves on this topic but so l was there's this whole overarching narrative in this movie of weird very black and white west coast east coast stereotypes of like everyone from the east coast is mean and not horny at all and everyone from the west coast is really hot and rich and like more fun and it's clear like the east coast is like hot and rich and, like, more fun. And it's clear, like, the East Coast is, like, demonized for the bulk of this movie.

And all the characters who we meet there, with the exception of the East Coast white trash community, which I appreciate. Regardless, it's like, a lot of this movie, to me, feels like Elle Woods reclaiming the pink reclaiming you know this feminine appearance and this like very visually motivated oh god I sound a million years old but like this like you know like reclaiming conventional hotness in an intellectual sense but I it feels like kind of a safe very marketable choice to be like we're gonna reclaim hot women you know like it right to an extent is like the good thing about it and this is where my notes caved in on themselves because like oh is she just like reclaiming conventional hotness that's not particularly interesting like oh hot women can be lawyers too it's like okay like okay great but with the way ellen her friends on both coasts who are more

traditionally feminine they do seem to be doing it for themselves and it's not that i noticed very like you don't get those lines of like well if i don do this, a man won't like me if I don't do this. Like, it does seem like they do it because they just, like, they place value on it. But the whole, like, she's wearing pink in a courtroom and her boobs are big does not totally track with me of, like, we're going to reclaim Victoria's Secret hotness, but in the courtroom. Like, it just, i don't know who is that supposed to be empowering you know like victoria's secret models who have higher ambitions

it's just a very small group you know right i also had trouble processing this idea of she's a very cartoonish character not to say that there aren't some people like that out there similar to i mean she is and she's a great great cartoon but so she's you know this very stereotypical like loves pink loves shopping knows fashion loves to get her nails done like but the type of feminine she's smart right there is a there is a like but the twist is right yeah so she's this like sort of you know hyper feminine woman and i think the the movie seeks to sort of dismantle this stereotype that pretty blonde sorority girls can also be intelligent and good lawyers which is true and fair but who the message that it just seems like a very narrow right it's like who is this for exactly

not to say that like stereotypes shouldn't be dismantled it just seems like a very bizarrely specific deeply marketable there were barbies of elwoods you know like there it's a very marketable stereotype to be dismantling and it's not even it's not dismantling it in a visual way at all so the the visual aspect is kept intact therefore keeping all the marketable parts of it kept intact there is a part where like her costume choices they change a bit in the middle of the movie where she doesn't dress quite so pink she has a blue outfit on at one point but then at the end she wears a beanie at one point you're just like she's lost point, but then at the end... She wears a beanie at one point. You're just like, she's lost herself. Right.

But then toward the end again, when she makes her grand appearance as the new person that Brooke Taylor hired to defend her, she's got this like... It is a great... I mean, her entrance in that scene, to be fair, they do a full body shot of her, which I usually take issue with,

but the outfit is more than the outfit in that scene to me that outfit also represents like she's gonna be herself and do this as well which I think is a good message like represent yourself the way you want to but you're I will you mentioned like there was a Barbie of Elle Woods and I had it. I owned it. That's why I know for sure. Throughout Western cultural history, the beautiful blonde female form has been the most easily digestible feminine form for Western culture to consume. And that's sort of been the ideal and we all have to strive for that and da da da right so maybe that's why that choice was made to like represent that type of archetypal stereotypical character in this movie right i mean maybe okay now no now my mind is

kind of changing a little bit where for sure there are more pervasive, culturally relevant, immediately relevant to people's everyday lives, stereotypes to be dismantled in major releases. I think it is sort of a sneaky win on behalf of the filmmakers that they're able to make that commentary pretty effectively while keeping all the visual marketing intact. But then, I mean, now that you, when you said like, you know, the, whatever, the sort of playboy ideal of shout out to my former employer, playboy, who can truly kiss my ass. Um, but the, the, you know, like that conventional ideal of the blonde women, I guess it is sort of like where that trope is very much like as much as the boobs and the hair are critical to that image, what is equally critical to that image is complacency, doing whatever they're told. And the way that women who look like that are viewed from just a camera aspect is always

in a way that's supposed to be pleasing and thought is never implied. So now that you say that, I'm like, maybe it is. It is interesting. I don't think it's the most relevant commentary, but it is interesting. Today, no. I don't think for 2001. 2001, we should have been thinking about a lot of things in 2001.

And maybe blonde, wealthy women were not top of the list. But it is common. They do comment a lot on it. I think by the end, it takes a while. But by the end, it's effective. I mean, there are moments where she does say, like, you know, no one takes me. Like, I get sort of discriminated against because of my hair color, because I'm a blonde. Imagine being an actually marginalized person and saying that.

Like, oh, I'm so fucking sorry that you're so hot and rich. And you got it. You still got into Harvard. Like, well, can we talk about that scene? Yes, yes, yes. Let's talk about that. Ooh, good segue oh i wanted to just really say quickly that i think that we should right now right here claim the new stereotype

for a female character which is the but the twist is oh where it's like she's either she's very hot or she's very ugly but the twist is she's smart or she could be hot, maybe. Maybe take off her glasses and see what happens. Right, yeah. It's like she's hot, but the twist is she's smart. Or she's smart and the twist is she's also beautiful. There's a really, I have not seen the show, but my good pal Catherine Cohen in New York does a great one

woman show called But the Twist Is She's Gorgeous. One of my favorites. Great turn of phrase. I feel like it's a trope that's used a lot. Yeah. Okay. So the scene with the admissions board at Harvard who are reviewing her video essay and trying to determine whether or not to accept her. I think the only all malemale scene in the movie that I can think of... Same, yeah. With more than... No, no, there's a few times where Middle Park Wilson and Victor Garber, or as I like to call him, Thomas Andrews, are...

Mr. Andrews! Mr. Andrews! Won't you even make a trifle with Mr. Andrews? Oh, Rosie. It's like I told you. I'm sorry I didn't build you a stronger she's oh and then earlier she's strong and true you're just like you dumb fuck oh but it's sad when he dies and stops the clock anyways but there there are a few i feel like one-on-one scenes with luke wilson and victor

carver but in terms of like this is a scene full of men versus the number of scenes in this movie that are full of women in a way that it's just like, woo, great. This is the only one. Yeah. So in this scene, we see around eight, six or eight. Eight old white guys. Old, mostly, yeah, mostly older, for sure, all white men basically deliberating on whether or not to accept Elle to Harvard. And they're looking at her essay, which most of the time she is in a swimsuit, and it's a weird choice.

But also I feel like that is like an unabashedly Elle Woods choice. Sure. That is, for all the implications of it, I do appreciate that she is true to herself in the video. I mean, she's playing to her strengths strengths which is that she was the president of her sorority yes like that's one of my favorite parts of the movie it is an iconic the days of our lives like the evil stefano and like it's it's great it's i used to watch the soap operas anyways so basically the whole scene is them i think there's one guy who's like, I don't know. And then all of the other ones are trying to, they have decided they want to accept her basically because they find her attractive.

And they're trying to rationalize why it's an okay decision to let her in. Right. Because they're like, well, she cares about animals and she's creative and she likes music because she was in a Ricky Martin video. And it's like, this is a challenging scene. Because, written on paper, nothing that is being vocalized is inaccurate or wrong. Does Elle Woods necessarily deserve to be at Harvard? At the beginning of the movie, I don't really think so. I mean, she has the correct scores and she has good grades, but it just, I don't know.

I struggle with the fact that she has, it seems unlikely to me that someone who has a bachelor's degree in fashion management and has no background or previously indicated interest in law would get into Harvard Law School. Realistically, no matter who you are, that just seems unlikely. Especially because Harvard is probably the hardest school in the U.S. to get into. I think you could get into a law school with those qualifications, good LSAT scores, 4.0 in whatever you happen to major in. Harvard Law School school i don't think so but we also find out later that warner also doesn't totally deserve to be there so

right because harvard's a fucking like you know harvard is like sort of known for that sort of weird nepotistic right like oh his father gave a call to somebody and then he got in a call i mean regardless on paper that scene would look in theory like they are naming her qualifications and it ends by saying ella woods welcome to harvard but the tone of that scene is very she's hot we gotta let her in you know however it just i feel like it just credits the protagonist a little bit in a way that's like well so there's a whole lot i want to say about that one i think that is sort of almost a foreshadowing of what happens later on where she learns that she basically only got that internship because her professor found her attractive because he like makes a pass at her

and then she has this whole thing where she's like this is crap i lost school was a mistake i don't even deserve anything i got because it turns out he only wanted me for my looks and stuff like that which is a whole thing i want to get into later bad garber so it's i think foreshadowing that however i think a lot of people would come to l woods's defense and i think that they're right because the thing is that she is extremely determined and yes she does have the resources to pay for a nicely produced video essay that a lot of people would not have the resources to do because like her argument we'll get to the class thing too because the class thing is a major thing in this yeah but like her sort of advocating for herself as a reason that she should be accepted to Harvard in the video essay

are not that compelling of reasons. Because she's saying, I already use lawyer jargon in everyday use. Because you see someone catcalling her and then she turns around and she's like, I object! Another iconic moment in the movie. It's great. But I think that her main qualities in the movie that i like her for because i'm not necessarily as on board with elwoods as maybe you or bigger fans of the movie however i do appreciate her for her determination because she and i think that quality alone i mean maybe not

alone but that because later on she she does show a lot of improvement when she first gets to law school. I think by the end she, like, I mean, even at the midpoint in the movie you're like, okay, this woman does deserve to be here. She's working really hard. And to clarify, I mean, at the time of this scene. Sure. I don't think that it's like by the end it's like, man, she really coasted. Like, she works so fucking hard and does a lot of amazing scene. Sure. I don't think that it's like by the end it's like man she really coasted. Like she works so fucking hard and does a lot of amazing stuff. I just mean in regards to this scene the movie is implying that she is perhaps not being admitted for all the right reasons

regardless of who she is as a person and the fact that she clearly, you know, deserves to be there. But this scene kind of negs her in a weird way. Right. There's a part where these group of men who are deliberating about this says something like, oh, well, she's a fashion major, as if, like, that's a reason why she shouldn't be here. But then another one says, well, we've never had one before, and aren't we always looking for diversity? That sucks. That sucks.

That sucks. It's clearly not the type of diversity that admissions board people should be considering, but I think that's played as a joke. I think so, too. Yeah. But I think this scene is a comment on how it's so often a group of rich, old, straight, white men making decisions that affect the fate of a whole bunch of different types of people. Right. They end up making the right call for Elle

because she does prove herself eventually. But it's kind of a fluke on their part. But yeah, basically, like I said, they accept her because most of the men in this room have seen this video of her in her bathing suit and been like, yeah, I definitely see her here at Harvard. her because most of the men in this room have seen this video of her in her bathing suit and been like yeah i i definitely see her here at harvard and the implication is that because i want to see her here at harvard yeah and not because she necessarily has the qualifications

because there is one character who keeps me like well i don't know what about this thing and they're like no it's uh she's a friend of the animals the thing is like i think that he i okay not to harp on the scene too much because this is a small scene in the movie but yeah i i don't mean to demonize ellen anyway in that scene she has no control over how these men are viewing her i do think that the movie is implying perhaps at the very beginning of the movie and and you could view that as possibly like maybe she's not a character of any gender who's randomly like you know my ex-boyfriend's gonna do this i'm just gonna go on their exact career path like they probably wouldn't get into a graduate school of the career path that's the opposite of what they've been doing just because

they decided three weeks before the lsats that they wanted to whatever elwoods is still a great character to me that scene is weird it's not i don't even think it's bad because i don't i don't want to like be like oh they're making you know they're not saying exactly what i want to be said and therefore it cannot be a scene in a movie i think it's a lot of commentary but i don't like that it negs the main character, even though she overcomes it anyways. Whatever. I'm tired. This is a very complex movie.

I know. I just realized how many things we have to talk about. I'm like, I'm tired. And this is 2020 Jamie saying that we need to take a quick ad break, but we'll be right back to the year 2018 in just a second. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017 was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere,

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I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh, my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know, I'm so behind. Katherine Hahn can sing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. And on camera, yeah, what's your song?

Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Ludi. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous.

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Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really

takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back to 2018. Okay, the next thing I wanted to talk about is, while she does have a number of female friends in the beginning of the movie with her two sorority sisters, one we know, his name is Margo. I think they both have names. If the second character of her two main friends in California is named, blinking you would have missed it because we missed it. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was trying to pay close attention and I never figured it out. So there's like, there's a blonde woman whose name is Marco, and I hate that I'm reducing women to their hair colors, but because we don't know their names, I don't know how else to describe them. Those are the only type, for the most

part, those are the only two types of women we see in this movie are white blondes and white brunettes. Yeah. With a few exceptions, but mostly few except but mostly yes right right so they're the woman with like shorter kind of auburn brunette hair i don't think we ever actually learned her name on screen i hope we do she does have those friendships and those are two women who support her except that they're basically supporting l in her pursuit of being proposed to by Warner and not necessarily her pursuit of going. Because whenever Elle's like, oh, I'm studying for the LSATs. I'm going to go to a Harvard Law School.

And they're like, why would you do that? And then there's a phone call later on when they. Again, to be fair, she's never displayed an interest in law. That's true. Never. Yeah. But there's a scene whenever, like, she gives them a call and she's like, has he proposed yet? We want you to come back so that

you can leave law school. That scene sucks. At first, I appreciate how her friends in California are supportive of what she's trying. I don't think that they should, like, you know, a real friend would be like, yeah, don't do that. Like, you know, like if you were like, Hey, I've fallen in love with a carpenter. I need to start working in construction in Indiana tomorrow. I would say hold the phone. Yeah. Actually do not do that. That's a bad idea. However, they're supportive, can't discredit them for that. But then when, even when she does go to harvard and starts to you know have a vested interest in her own education that whole scene they don't ask about school at all and you're just like the whole scene is about the blonde woman's wedding and we miss you and also

we didn't tell you that one of us is getting married before we went wedding dress shopping but we're friends right weird anyways that storyline does resolve itself by the two of them showing up in her big case at the end a lot of third act magic in this movie yeah but until then it's just a whole lot of like why are you in law school law school is for losers oh what but all she's ever displayed an interest i know i know like which is why that does make sense which is part of the problem about a movie where the main character that they're not interested in also it seems like she was very like i mean even if we go back to that admission scene where she did have all these fashion industry-based accomplishments seems like you were passionate about that yeah

and then she just abandoned some of that and i mean it's a testament to her intelligence and her character that she's able to make a total switch and still excel at it but it's like you seemed like you're doing pretty well like you had a 4.0 in this industry that you were already working in but sure old wait list chode warner you know whatever throw all that away maybe though she like gets her law degree and then she ends up working in fashion law you know that branch of law i'm sure it exists i mean like well i mean and in terms of like elwoods's character staying always true which i think is why regardless of all the issues of like uh she's a rich white lady with limitless means. I think that the reason

people connect with this character so strongly is she never abandons her interests and her like the essence of who she is at the beginning of the movie. We see her grow as a person and grow into herself a little bit, but like she doesn't. There's not that total princess diaries style 180 from i was like this and now i'm the opposite and it's better where elwoods remains herself and grows as a person i think that i mean that's why i like her a lot and even though it's very like god in the machini at the in the in the scene where she's able to extract a murder confession from a brunette because of her knowledge of how perms work, which is, I think, a really well-written scene and goofy. See, I think I have some problems think that it's one of those things where, for me, it comes down to, like, from an entertainment aspect, I feel like the right choice was made of, like, that is fun to watch. Of, like, she's using her knowledge she's had the whole time in order to accomplish a new goal.

I think that that, at its core, is interesting. I think that, on the other hand, having her be, like, really heteronormative girl knowledge put a brunette in jail you know that is not as good because like it would be great to see her deftly use the law to put her as opposed to using perm knowledge right character wise it makes sense to me right exactly because the movie sets it up that like elle is the only one who could have figured this out because of her knowledge of hair care and fashion and all this stuff. Right. Because a similar thing happens where a character that she's trying to sort of incriminate, the pool boy whose character's name I don't remember. Oh, we'll get into Salvatore.

Yeah. Because he has made the statement that Brooke Taylor, the person that they're defending in this case, he and her were lovers. And she's like, hang on a minute. That doesn't check out. And then he says something like... He knew who a fashion designer was. Yeah.

He makes a comment on her Prada shoes. She's like, wait a minute. He can't have had an affair with her. He's gay because he knows about Prada. This movie's queer characters are not treated well no before we get there i think that the movie does make that commentary of l being uniquely qualified to law is made time and time again because and again it's set up plot wise it very easily if the plot had gone literally in any other less convenient direction,

would not be true and we'd see her struggle more. But when the main legal case of the movie is a sorority sister who the East Coast elite have trouble communicating with, Elle, again, is the one who's uniquely qualified to communicate with her. So to me, because we'd already seen l be positioned as like she is learning and doing very well in law school and is like accomplishing and doing all the things she should be doing but the twist is she is also able to communicate with wealthy blonde women to me that tracked through the end of like where her wealthy blonde woman knowledge was able to put a wealthy brunette woman in jail.

I don't know. But even if it is a problematic through line, it is a through line. Sure. I mean, like I said, the movie does make a point to demonstrate, yeah, Elle's the only one that could have won this case because of her knowledge about, you know, hair and fashion that no one else had. And she makes all these breakthroughs in this case because her, like, sisterhood with the client and all that stuff. So it's being like, hey, this type of woman can be an asset in the world. However, okay, so she does figure out the case by using deductive reasoning and using her intelligence. She does figuring it out.

Yeah, law. deductive reasoning and using her intelligence she does figuring it out yeah law but like the maybe not the core of it but her prime skill that makes her figure all this out is like a very stereotypical hyper feminine thing where it's like yes hair and beauty and vanity kind of thing bugged me a little bit not so much that I still wasn't on board with that whole scene. I totally see what you're saying. But it was just a little frustrating that like, and the thing that gets her to win the case is marketable hair. Yeah, like marketable, traditionally feminine qualities.

Yeah. She is a tricky character because it's very easy to see almost everything she does in two very different ways. Again, going back to the movie, really doubling down on like Elle is herself. And this is what is the cause of her succeeding is like sticking to her guns. And this sort of, I guess, segues into the East Coast women and Vivian in particular, is that where she has this very contentious relationship with vivian for the at least the first half of the movie it's her being herself

by honoring the sisterhood delta new vows between she and brooke that wins vivian's respect so again it's like l doing a very l thing that ends up winning the respect of someone you wouldn't expect and i really like that yeah more on that especially her friendship arc with vivian and then one of the other yeah notable female characters enid so as i said many many moons ago she has a couple female friendships that are strong and supportive, and that's great. And then she has another one in Paulette,

which we can talk about in a second. But then she has these, the movie sort of poises her against these couple other female characters who are classmates of her. So it's basically saying like, oh, well, these, you know, Vivian and Elle and enid are classmates and

therefore they're sort of in competition because everyone's going to be vying for the best grades and the these coveted internships and stuff like that i mean that makes sense and then also that yeah it does however vivian is introduced and immediately they're enemies because the first scene you see vivian is her being like yes i agree professor she's unprepared kick her out of class and then that scene right after that weird thing is yeah the scene right after that is l learning that vivian and warner are engaged and then there's a bunch of scenes after that where vivian like makes a point to flaunt her engagement to warner in front of l so basically even though she's in law school and pursuing law,

and this is a passion of hers that we are meant to believe throughout her whole life, unlike Elle, who just decided two months ago, I'm going to go to law school. Right. Which is, that's another... She's still... That's a fun... Victor Garber's character sucks, but that's a fun line in the movie.

Wait, which one? Slightly misogynist, but it is fun. Where he's like, I do think she woke up one day and was like, I want to go to law school. Because that is literally what happens. That is what happens. But so with Vivian, we're meant to believe is this passionate about law person. Yet the movie spends so much time showing her being very petty toward Elle and basically only caring about her engagement to Warner. I think Vivian is a tonally dissonant, underwritten character as a whole.

Again, switching to the other side of this, the movie has everyone wanting to be firmly in Elle Woods' corner the entire movie. The way Vivian reacts to Elle in the first third to half of the movie is always too much. Like, it's always too much. He's my boyfriend now. And, like, I want you to leave class because I don't like you. Like, it's too much and they're laying it on too thick. Fundamentally, I don't think it's fair to demonize vivian to have it seem like how ridiculous that she feels like it's weird that her fiance's ex-girlfriend uprooted her life

to go to the same school as him right that's uncomfortable and they're forced together over and over the scene where this was clearest to me because there are vivian for by and large overreacts is too mean goes too out of her way to make l unhappy like and there's the big plot points of like oh it's a costume party but it's not actually a costume stuff like that but there is one scene in which it's another just weird, bizarro, like, okay, 2001 kind of scene where Elle shows up because she wants to join Warner's study group. Yes.

And Vivian is clearly uncomfortable and I don't think the movie wants us on her side but it's like, yeah, of course she's uncomfortable. Like, you don't want this person who objectively would seem perhaps a little unhinged forcing themselves to be ready like i'm fully on vivian's corner in that scene and she is not nice about it but in that particular scene she's not overly rude about it and l to her credit takes the hint and says okay I'm gonna go yeah and then this very strange thing happens as she leaves the scene where Enid the only queer

female character we see in the movie I wasn't sure if it's like she had heard a rumor that Elle had said something or like was just making an assumption about Elle based on her appearance or what it was. But she was basically saying, like, whatever. She said something like, maybe there's, like, a sorority you can join. Right, right. Making fun of her, like you said, based on her, like, the way she presents herself and talks and looks. Right. And then there's a weird, like, oh, wouldn't you call me a dyke?

Behind my back kind of thing back and then l makes a very weird choice after just gracefully exiting a tense situation that she caused yeah says i don't use that word but vivian probably does and she so she's just like um I know I can't be in the study group. Vivian hates gay people. Goodbye. And you're just like, that seems a bit like that. Because Elle, again, to that character's credit, does not go after Vivian in as rude and antagonistic a way that Vivian goes after her for part of the movie. Granted, it is a major motivation of her to take quote-unquote warner from again it's it's a lot like warner should have been just allowed to break up with l and be an

asshole for the rest of his life but then we wouldn't have the movie so right a quick point i want to make about the way that enid and vivian at least in the beginning in the movie and then vivian has a like a girlfriend character whose name I don't think we ever learn, but the three of them are all very mean to Elle. Law bitches. Right. They mock her, the way that she looks and the way that she talks, which is suggesting that all of these women who are adults and in law school

are so petty that they are judging Elle solely on the way she presents herself in it you know they're meant to be vilified and most of these characters come around at the end and say I was wrong to judge you like that but it's basically saying like look how petty these women are for no reason, which was weird to me. And then, yeah, definitely that scene where Enid's like, you probably call me a dyke. And El says something like,

for the record, if you had come to a party, I would have been nice to you, which I believe because that is what we... El seems like a nice character. El reminds me a lot of Cher from Clueless. Oh, I didn't even share.

Cher. You know. That Cher. No, Cher from Clueless. Who we see as like... Moonstruck Cher. Who is like, I think we talked about on the Clueless episode,

is an example of, you know, a rich, blonde, white girl who we often see sort of vilified in movies, but as a nice person who's really sweet. Oh, that's an excellent, I hadn't even thought of the Cher parallels in this movie, but there are a lot, especially with the Cher- The Cher- The Cher- The Cher-

The Cher- The Cher-lals? The Shar-a-lals. The Shar-a-lals. I accept it. Because at the top of the movie especially when they're on the west coast, people can't stop talking about how much money they have where Warner's literally driving beside Elle in a convertible

and she's like, I grew up in Bel-Air. I'm not white trash which is like um triggered but we are sort of like oh you know Elle's kind of a rich bitch which she is she's rich but she's not a bitch and that while again it is not the most pressing commentary to be making in a movie I think is generally positive of like Elle seems I mean she vocalizes several times she is aware of her own privilege but still works hard and is by and large decent to everyone she comes into contact with and the main I mean granted this is a very white movie but we we do see her come into contact with people who are a different class than she is via jennifer coolidge's character paulette who is sort of like plays into this like white trash

new england trope and l never i mean there's not even an exchange where any judgment is passed about her class true so you know again's like, this isn't like, we need to be seeing that rich white women can be good people. But if that is the protagonist of the movie, I appreciate that choice. That brings me to a very bizarre scene that happens in the movie, which is the bend and snap scene. I love the bend and snap scene. And if you've seen i haven't

seen it on broadway because i'm not a a millionaire but i have seen videos of it the legally blonde musical is banging it's really good the bend and snap song rules the bend and snap scene is so weird because it's sort of like look at Elle Woods teaching these poor women how to do this weird thing I love that scene well the context of the scene is like that her teaching these women how to appeal to a man better with something that looks crazy yeah because it's like the bend over because you drop something and then snap back up and show your perky body. And it's like really bizarre. It feels so out of place in the movie.

But it is one of the few scenes where you see any women of color. But it's like... They're all bending and snapping. It's really bizarre. And then this gay man comes out at the end or someone who we're supposed to perceive as being gay and he says something like, oh the old bend and snap and da da da cuts to the last

ten seconds of this scene. The whole scene is crazy, but the last ten seconds of this scene particularly baffling is like a woman breakdancing after bending and snapping and then cutting to a gay man in like a waiter's uniform at a nail salon, bringing something

out and being like, oh yeah, bend and snap, cut to two dogs panting. End of scene. It's bonkers. I encourage a rewatch of that scene. You know, if there is something problematic in that scene,

I was too sensory overloaded to recognize it. It was just, it's just a weird fucking scene. And to me, one of the best parts of the whole movie because the only time that Ben and, also, to the point of like, this scene probably should have been cut,

the only time the Ben and Snap scene is brought back is when Jennifer Coolidge's character tries it and it doesn't brought back is when jennifer coolidge's character tries it and it doesn't work it fails because she breaks the guy's nose we never see a successful bend and snap accomplished we see a very long scene of it being introduced to 40 people for some reason and then the one time it's brought back it breaks someone's nose. But she still manages to quote unquote snag that guy, the UPS guy who she was interested in,

which is perhaps a comment on you don't need to do this elaborate movement to attract a mate. You can just, I don't know, talk to someone and see if they might be interested in you too. Can we tackle Jennifer Coolidge? Yeah.

There's so many female... I mean, this coolish yeah look at because she's there's so many female i mean this is a good problem to have but there's a lot here yeah um yeah wait let me we've been recording for about an hour and i still have a lot to say because there's a whole callahan i've got to expedite i'm exhausted um this going to be a two-hour episode. Please don't. It can't be. I literally will pass out. Okay.

Jennifer Coolidge. Yes. Jennifer Coolidge is our resident poor person in this movie. Her name's Paulette in this movie. Elle meets her when she has a full-body panic because she needs... And I think character-wise, she's seeking out something familiar in an unfamiliar place. I do this with IHOP everywhere I go. Dunkin' Donuts as well. Exactly.

Like, yeah, I understand that she's like, oh, this is somewhere that makes sense to me. It's a character-based decision that makes a lot of sense. So she meets Jennifer Coolidge, who's a nail technician at this place. Paulette introduces herself as, she's like, I'm a middle-aged woman who did not graduate from high school i dated the same man for eight years and he randomly left me this is the worst blah blah blah like she she clearly finds herself to be a very tragic

irredeemable character i didn't even get to celebrate my dog's birthday. Yeah. Right. And she misses her dog. And Elle, at this point in the movie, is like, yeah, that's pretty fucking sad. I'm so sorry that this happens. And then Jennifer Coolidge, I mean, her character, I would argue top to bottom, with the exception of one scene, really does not send the right message at any point. Where right after being like, you know, she's like one of the only women over 40 we see in this movie. I'm assuming, I don't know if she, but like her character says she's middle-aged. You know, she clearly feels she's a spinster. And without a man, even though clearly a crummy man, because he randomly left her,

without a man, she has no prospects or value. Right. Elle seems to agree with this at first and then before we even find out the next thing about that character jennifer coolidge says you know she finds out about l's predicament and it's like well if someone as hot as you can't get a man there's no hope for the rest of us which is like that line fucking sucks and then and then she suggests you've got to steal him from vivian and it's just like well this character is really derailing anything positive but she's the only poor person and the only not super young person that we and we have the professor you know we have other stuff yeah

but the main the most main character that is older. The one scene that I would say is really good that she's in is there's one scene focused on her character where she and Elle go to the trailer of her loser ex-boyfriend who looks and sounds like a loser. Clearly irredeemable and i remember that scene clearly and i forgot a lot about this movie but i remember that scene because of how paulette's character behaves in that scene really i don't know like hurt my heart a little bit because it felt real in a movie that does not very often feel real right she's like psyching herself up to go and talk to her ex-boyfriend she's like this time i'm gonna you know i'm gonna get what i want and blah blah and he opens the door immediately is obviously dismissive and asshole calls her ugly basically saying like oh let's see what i'm not missing out on and it crushes her and she's like clearly very affected by it and starts to back down and you

know like she's clearly planned this big confrontation, and it sort of devolves into these mumbles. And that was, I think, a beautiful character moment that was very sad. And fortunately, Elle's there and spews out a bunch of, granted, made up, but scares him enough that their friendship is solidified and that Elle's able to get Paulette, her dog, back. I like that scene. That was a great scene to me.

Two, because one, you see Elle empowering Paulette and sort of uplifting another female character. And it's the first time you see Elle being super lawyer-y. There were a few scenes before that where she, like, says the right answer in class. That's a great point, yeah class and we're beginning to see her kind of like, oh, she does have a knack for this law thing. And then this is the scene where you're like, oh, I do see her potential.

And she's kind of realizing it herself, too. Because even though she wings it, she manages to convince this guy. And what she's saying is not total nonsense. It almost makes total sense. Right, It almost makes total sense. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. It's close. Which is, she seemed very lawyer-y in that moment. And we're like, fuck yeah, she's gonna do it. And still looked like Elle Woods while doing it, which was great. I loved, I loved that scene. I think that that's the peak of Paulette's character.

And I feel like they sell her out later by, you know, she has a crush on this UPS guy. Which, do they say UPS? Like, is that product placement? I think they do, yeah. That's so weird. But anyways, she, you know, ends up, she has a crush on this UPS guy. She breaks his nose with a bend and snap, but they still end up together. That, I think, you know, like, that is not a negative thing. I just don't like that it's like, Paulette's clearly in a lot of pain from this really bad relationship she confronts him she gets what she wants

and now she can use all this new empowerment to be in a relationship with another man and I just I felt like her character was sold out a little bit because that one scene with her and Elle was so great for both of them that I would have preferred her to I would have preferred to see her finish her high school degree, you know, like something like that that wasn't

just like, and now she has a new boyfriend. Which maybe she did, but like that's not, your attention's called to, oh my gosh, she broke her nose with, it's her boyfriend now. Which is funny, but I just like, she's a B character, but I think she deserved better. I agree. And that's a wrap on Jennifer Gould. The next character I want to talk about is Professor Callahan, a.k.a. Victor Garber.

Thomas Andrews. And how he is a total scumbag. We start to get a clue of this because at first he seems like he believes in l and that he you know he sees potential in her and because she she speaks up in his class and he's like oh yeah she's got some good opinions and i and i value her and she's intelligent but then you get some hints that he's maybe not so great because he takes on this case of this Brooke Taylor murdering her husband, possibly, case that he is the defense attorney for. And the whole time he's like, no, I'm pretty sure she killed him. I think she's guilty.

And, like, basically, I think we can take away that he does not respect or trust his client because she's a young and attractive woman. One who married an older man, but not for his money. Basically, she says flat out because he's got a good D. Right. But he's just like, well, she's a woman and she's young and beautiful,

therefore cannot be taken seriously. Because later, there's the scene where he makes a pass at Elle, but under the pretense of like, here, let's discuss your future and your career. What a relevant

scene what a weirdly relevant scene in an otherwise not super relevant movie yes he's telling her these things and at first he's like oh he's gonna hire her to be a part of his law firm or something or you know he sees potential in her as a lawyer but then he puts his hand on her knee which i would argue is the equivalent of a surprise kiss it's not a kiss it's it's a grope but it's unsolicited it is non-consensual and this movie does a great job of treating how this type of act should be treated which is don't touch me i did not invite you to touch me and in the moment that's what she says she says yes fuck off and is clearly like and even vocalizes oh so you didn't mean anything you just said to me about my what i forgot about this sequence that also feels just as relevant is that we see the immediate that prompts a crisis of faith in herself that makes a lot of sense of like she is

capable we know that we've been watching her develop and do very well but hearing you know just for the sake of this guy's fucking disgusting inability to respect a woman like she doubts everything positive she knows about herself and it prompts her to i mean i think for the sake of the plot immediately abandon any hope of being a lawyer and and at that point we're like well this is a loss for everybody like it's just like that was who that was like kind of a devastating sequence to watch yeah it sort of very closely parallels a lot of things that are happening you know in different industries today where it's not unsimilar to all the women who quit comedy

because louis ck jerked off in front of them in a hotel room right and all the women that like left journalism because of people like matt lowry and mark halpert like all the women who did not go into directing and producing because of harvey fucking weinstein yeah you know every industry and in this case it's law i'm i feel pretty certain that it probably does happen in the law community oh i'm sure of it which any industry that men are a part of it happens which is all industries right and therefore and they're usually in charge of them too and and seeing that play out is like really hard and then the other thing i forgot that happens is and luke wilson's character you know he's a good character he's a good like emmett middle part emmett

feminist icon loves l is good at his job pretty across the board both a effective hot and uninteresting character the thing i thought was really, if from a plot sense did not make a lot of sense, was that Elle goes to the nail salon to say goodbye to Paulette and say, like, I love you, whatever, but this is too much. I have to go home because I don't believe I can be a lawyer anymore. And somehow, we haven't talked about this character yet, because she's really only in two scenes doing very different things. Yeah. But there is an older female law professor who at first is very hard on Elle

in a way that is like, what? She kicks her out of her class because she didn't read an assignment that Elle didn't know she had. Right. Which I can see happening. What I can see happening is her being like, Vivian, other character we need to meet at some point, should Elle be forced to leave? And Vivian says, yes, I think she should. And I was like, well, that would never happen in a class.

Why would you ask another student for consent to dismiss your own student? I could see Elle getting kicked out. Like, whatever. Yeah, that was bizarre. So we're taught to think, oh, she's very stern. And that didn't seem like even a gendered comment because all the law professors we see are very stern. But the second time we see her, she somehow goes to the white trash nail salon that seems a little bit out of the way as well she's in the background i was like okay sure but at least they make the most of that sort of baffling reveal of remember that weird scene from earlier she's back and she has that great line of like if you're letting this what

what is she if you're gonna let one stupid prick ruin your life, you're not the woman I thought you were. Which empowers Elle to be like, you're right, I'm going to go back. And that's the sort of catalyst that makes her return to Brooke. And finish the movie. Yeah, Brooke hires her to be her defense attorney. And then the whole sequence plays out where she solves the case and wins. And I think that that was like a really cool choice because at that point we've already seen luke wilson say no you're great you

should you should stay and he's right but i think that that is like kind of in in the intricacies of how a situation like this plays out hearing another man say you're great you should stay it makes sense to me that Elle would be like, thank you, I appreciate that, but it doesn't carry the same weight of a successful female lawyer saying, no, you should be here. And so that, I got all choked up. I thought it was such a cool moment. Even if the fact that Professor Strongwell, high-powered lawyer, goes to the same white trash nail salon that Elle Woods stumbles into, I'm assuming it's in Malden, by accident. Makes no fucking sense.

That was, like, one of my favorite moments in the whole movie. Yes, I do like that. Also, not to give any male characters any credit for anything, but the sequence plays out where Callahan surprise touches L. She has the reaction that we're always hoping to see, which is like, Ooh, are you hitting on me?

Bad. Immediately. Yeah. Cause he said something like, what? I'm just a man who knows what he wants. And she responds with, and I'm a law student who just realized her professor is a pathetic asshole.

And she gets up. And then she runs into Luke Wilson and tells her like, this whole thing was a mistake. Me coming to law school was a mistake. And he's like,

what are you talking about? What? And then she tells him, Callahan just hit on me and he believes her. Immediately. And is like, clearly upset by the news

but does not doubt her at all. Right. And then in turn, and this was like a good character moment for, again, I think the not super well-written Vivian character, where Vivian, another lots of fun, convenient moments taking place in the late second into the third act of this movie. But just as Elle Woods is surprised, touched by Victor Garber, Vivian sees that touch happen, does not see what happens immediately after, which is Elle making it clear that that is unwelcome. Right. So Vivian, there's this moment where she's like,

she confronts Elle in an elevator and is like, oh, so you almost had me fooled. I almost thought you were a good, capable lawyer, but it turns out it looks like you're fucking the professor. And that's another sort of wrench thrown into their friendship that was developing at that point. So that's, you know, whatever, that's a plot point. To Vivian's character's credit, later in the movie,

when Brooke finds out l quit luke wilson middle part just his part is just oiled and shiny just a beam of light is coming out of luke wilson's middle part in every scene he appears in but he says you know she quit and the main reason she quit which again is like credit to that character the main reason she quit is because victor garber hit on her and she wanted no part of it right and immediately vivian says oh my god i didn't realize that i've made literally arrested development style i've made a huge mistake which is good and and again tracks with the character of l who even when the like log line of this movie is not good she is an honest character through like she doesn't lie to anybody ever and that's like sort of the part of like that's part

of her core so it makes sense that like of course you would believe her because victor garvey's character is notoriously fucking sus as hell you know like yeah and earlier in the movie vivian even makes a comment at one point where she's like do you ever notice how callahan will make you get him coffee but he never makes any of the male interns get coffee and then they have a conversation about how men are useless and this is sort of the spark of the beginning of their friendship because they kind of like bond over like Warner being an idiot, men being useless. Warner being a little weightless bitch. Yeah.

I love it. And then the catalyst that gets Vivian to turn around from like hating Elle is that she sees Elle sort of protecting the client because, you know, there's the whole thing with her alibi and, like, I can't reveal what my alibi is because it would ruin my career. Right. And Elle's like, sure, I will keep your secret as safe as I can.

And Vivian's like, that was actually pretty classy. So that makes her respect Elle. And opens the channel for her. That, like, made me feel great I've had not to be like this is like my fucking life right now but I've had experiences like that too where it's like you just get off on the wrong foot with someone usually because of a man and then later like realize that perhaps the man is the big fucking idiot and it is good and we can be friends even though we're different that scene really did it for me loved that scene and was a good moment for vivian i just

vivian in the beginning of this movie just like she i feel like her character is exploited to set up fun scenes i don't think that it is something that tracks with her character to be like, it's a costume party, see you there. I mean, that from a studio notes standpoint is because people want to see Reese Witherspoon dressed up like a bunny. That is why. They managed to fit it into the plot

but sort of at the expense of Vivian's character in that moment, I think. I think there's a few other clues that so this, I think it's worth noting that moment right i think there's a few other clues that so this is i think it's worth noting that this movie was written by two women karen mccullough and kirsten smith and it's based on a novel written by another woman amanda brown however it was directed by a man robert luke headache or something let's see what else and i think there are clues sprinkled throughout the movie that it was in fact directed by a man.

Basically, the opening montage of the movie is this whole thing where people are signing a card for Elle, which is basically just like, congrats on probably getting engaged tonight, which doesn't end up happening. And there's all these shots of her sorority sisters, and sometimes they're wearing next to nothing. And they're in a steamy bathroom getting showers or they're like exercising or just like sexualized and the way weird shots and like yeah the whole visual medium like the way women the way the sorority girls are framed is very exactly how you'd think sorority girls would be framed nothing is subverted right and that which is weird because i think the whole point of the movie is to sort of

try to subvert the stereotype of, you know, a blonde sorority sister that Elle's character is. Fucking dodoi, yeah. But actually all these other sorority girls, they're still all white heteronormies who are

hot and blonde and we're gonna frame them like they're basically pieces of meat wearing bikinis. Speaking of bikinis, there's another scene where Elle is, like, outside sunbathing in what's probably, like, September, October in Boston, which is not appropriate weather to be sunbathing in. But she's got this, like, sequined bikini. It can be. Maybe, but, like... It can be. I don't know. she's got this sequined bikini.

Maybe, but like... It can be. I don't know. I'll advocate for her in that sense. The point is, she's outside. She's wearing a sequined bikini or something. It's basically to show Warner what he's missing out on because he's playing football with all these other

dude bros outside. And they all just basically stop playing football and just leer at her dude bros outside. And they all just like basically stop playing football. And just leer at her for a good 20 seconds. And she just like gives a smile like, yep, I'm glad that you're all leering at me. And it's like, ah, weird choice. I just did the most cursory amount of research on this director possible. And found out some truly insane information. If you don't mind me sharing. So, director Robert Luketic was, first of all, was 27 when this movie came out.

Whoa. This was his first major release. Young director. Young director. He was given this opportunity because of a short film he had that went to Sundance, which what an exciting male experience to do one fucking thing and then be given a massive opportunity. Wow. What an amazing thing that will never happen to us.

But the movie that he debuted at Sundance and other places was called Tiziana Booberini. Booberini. Just again, if you didn't hear what I said the first time, at age 23, Robert Lou Kedick made an 11-minute movie called Tiziana Booberini. And people saw Tiziana Booberini,ini and they said this guy's going places give him a feature i am losing my mind tiziana buberini and so i was like well what could tiziana buberini be about and it's not what you think it's about but it's still bad it's about shaming women for

a different part of their body than the title tiziana buberini would i guess i would imply this sounds fucking crazy it won best film at aspen shorts. It won all these awards. And without Tiziana Buberini, we don't have Legally Blonde. How crazy. Which, you know, maybe was an original working title for Legally Blonde. Tiziana Buberini 2.

Okay. It's a musical comedy with the story focusing on Tiziana Buberini, an Italian checkout girl at a suburban supermarket who is ridiculed by her fellow employees for her stute upper lip. Meaning she has a dark, she has like a light mustache.

As do I. Let us vote. Right. So it's about a girl with a dark upper lip. The resolution to this 11 minute film? Tiziana. Is that the character's name it's a weird italian joke tiziana buberini there tiziana gains new confidence and acceptance when she discovers a

hair removal treatment oh and the movie so she it's sorry that was the most insane Googling for his entire life. Tiziana Bouberini. What else is there to say? I'm speechless. We wouldn't have this. So we cannot possibly consider Legally Blonde a feminist masterpiece as Bustle.com would lead us to believe because it wouldn't exist without Tiziana Bouberini.

I can't. He also directed Monster-in-Law, which is a J-Lo rom-com, which is my shit. Also, Jane Fonda shines in that movie. It's not a good movie. Haven't seen it.

But it wouldn't have happened without Tiziana Boomerini. No. I cannot fucking believe that. Okay, we're good. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. This episode is officially longer than the movie.

It's officially longer than the movie. Definitely, because the movie's only an hour and 36 minutes, which I appreciate. Keep it tight. Love a the movie. It's officially longer than the movie. Definitely, because the movie's only an hour and 36 minutes, which I appreciate. Keep it tight. Love a short movie. Keep those titsy on a boomerang nice and tight and hairless. What the fuck?

Oh, God. That's crazy. Titsy on a boomerang. Just a few final thoughts. Sorry, yeah, I'm lightheaded. About Legally Blonde. I know it's so late and we're dying. I wanted to say that Aristotle

gets mentioned. Yeah, that was exciting. But we were like, Aristotle! So, shout out to our producer, Aristotle. Also, I, uh, we touched on this before, but there's only really three main male characters. Warner, Emmett, which is Luke Wilson's

character, and Callahan, Victor Garber. The rest of the characters with speaking roles, of which there are many, Warner, Emmett, which is Luke Wilson's character, and Callahan, Victor Garber. The rest of the characters with speaking roles, of which there are many, many, many, are women, which is great. But I would say, before we call this a women's movie, we have to call it a white woman's movie. Yes, absolutely. The only really notable woman of color in the movie is the judge. Which is great. Yes.

That is great. There were however many opportunities for other characters to be women of color. Other students in law school women in her sorority women anywhere else in the movie. Fortunately there's no lack of women in this movie. No excuse for

them to not be women of all shapes, sizes, colors. Right. And in that vein, and we've already touched on this too, but there are two notable queer characters in the movie and neither of them really get fair treatment. The movie is really subscribing to some pretty problematic stereotypes in the way that they portray the lesbian character Enid and the gay guy's name

is salvatore right um because like the gay guy knows about fashion and that's what's incriminates him right and the lesbian is like this shrewy woman studies male hating feminist her thing right where especially enid's character falls into, I mean, both of these characters are literally handicapped by their own queerness by the plot. Where Salvatore is not able to pull off his little scheme because of his queerness. Right. In a scene that I do think is very funny where Luke Wilson's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, what's your boyfriend's name? And then he's like, whatever he's like, Chuck. Chuck. And then Chuck is there? Chuck's there. He's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What's your boyfriend's name? And then he's like, whatever he says. Chuck.

Chuck. And then Chuck is there? Chuck's there. He's like, what the hell? He's like, Chuck, why are you playing party to this? Chuck, you deserve better than this, Chuck. Salvatore is a little sneak. But anyways.

Because he says something like, oh, I misunderstood. He's just a friend of mine. And then Chuck stands up and he's like, you bitch. I was like, wow, Chuck is drawing a line in the sand which chuck deserves better obviously yeah also chuck why are you there buddy like is it a money thing that's the only thing i could think of but salvator is literally handicapped by his own queerness bad enid she does not fail in the movie and quite in the spectacular fun way that salvator fails but you really don't see her speak in a scene where she just she can't stop talking about the fact that she's a lesbian like

she's just like a it's a cartoon character although I did I enjoy the moment where she's talking to Luke Wilson who is for I guess at this I think the movie tricks you into thinking that he's a law student and then later there's this reveal and it's like, no, he's actually an associate at this law firm. No, he's just hanging out at a law school. But he's just hanging out with a bunch of law kids. Anyway, so he's at this party with a bunch of

law students and Enid is talking to him and she's like, oh, the whole semester is a male term. I'm gonna petition for them to be called Ovesters from now on. And I was like, that's the type of thing that I would probably say. So I get it. Or I would at least tweet as a joke.

But anyway, the very few people of color in this movie, the very few queer characters you see, are not done justice at all by the movie. Right. I will say that I enjoy that there are several female characters and most of them are white who are law professors at the most prestigious school in America. The prosecuting attorney in the courtroom scenes is a woman. Yes. The courtroom, as with most industries, but it's like, you know, it's not necessarily like a statement to have a nail salon with a lot of female characters inside it. Sure. It's certainly not a statement to have a sorority full of a lot of female characters.

The courtroom thing felt like, oh, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's a judge who's a woman and the prosecuting attorney who does most, and granted she's clearly poised as this character who does not, like many of the characters in the movie, take Elle seriously. Right. And whenever she's like, yeah, let this first year law student try to defend her, I'm fine with that. Counterpoint Elle's outfit. You know, it's like, it makes sense.

It makes sense. It's not an illogical character trait. Okay. Do we have anything else to say before we end? Lord, I fucking hope not. It passes the Bechdel test, obviously. In fact, I stopped... There are many scenes where women are talking,

where they are talking about any number of male characters, oftentimes Warner and some other people, but I stopped being able to even keep track of the scenes where women are interacting and saying things that pass the Bechdel test. Which is great. Because there are so many. My only criticism is that this movie has trouble. I can't, I don't even know if it's like the issues

there's just not enough male characters to have this be an issue for them as well. But the movie is like not great at naming their characters. But there are so many. So it takes a while for it to pass our version of the Bechdel test. Because there. A lot of those sorority sisters don't have names. Right. But it passes handily sorority sisters don't have names. But

it passes handily. Although there are several times where two women are talking to each other, but they're being really mean to each other, which like, I don't, like, that technically pounds. But there's like one scene in particular where like, Vivian says to Elle, nice outfit, when she shows up in the bunny

costume. And then Elle says, thanks, you too, except that when I dress up as a frigid bitch, I try to not to look so constipated. And it's like, wow, feminism. And then the last line is, you have the ring. You're just like, fuck, how does this scene manage to pass the whole time? The other thing I did want to say about that is that I really,

I feel like we were robbed of a scene where l and vivian kind of reconcile because it leaves off where vivian realizes she's made a huge mistake because she misinterprets what she saw happening between callahan and l but then we don't really get to see any sort of apology or reconciliation there. Cut a minute out of the 45 bend and snap sequence and give us that. I also would have, speaking to let's write Vivian a little

bit better, I would have liked to see Vivian confront Warner as well. Because clearly there's a lot to unpack there and we find out midway through the movie that Vivian doesn't take Warner seriously either. Right. Should we rate the movie?

Why, Bob? Do we rate them in the bonus episode? I think we have, yeah. Okay. I'm going to give it... Oh, dear me. I'm going to say this is like a three nipple. I feel like I lost blood.

I've lost a lot of blood this week. My larynx is literally torn to shreds. Anyway, okay, so I'm going to give this movie three nipples. It might deserve higher. It might deserve lower. I'm not really sure. To me, it's still like it's a movie in which the character in the third act is very empowered, and she ends up realizing the thing that she was

pursuing for the wrong reasons is her calling and that she is good at it and that she is passionate about it and that's great however the whole first very long chunk of the movie is her pursuing something for the very wrong reasons so that's a little frustrating to watch also we had the whole discussion about a movie that's kind of trying to like dismantle and subvert the tropes and the stereotypes of a blonde hot sorority girl. We have to rethink.

But she's also smart. But the movie is just so fucking pink. To me it almost reads as like those like Bic brand pens that were like these are for women because they're pink and it's like okay this, these are for women because they're pink. And it's like, okay, this is a movie for women because look how pink it is. There is a level of corporate feminism to this movie that isn't as egregious as it could be, but it's present.

It's there. Yeah. The product placement is there. I'm with you. Sorry. I don't know why I'm like this. What if I just passed out? We are both having a stroke.

So, yeah, there's certainly some problems. I do like the third act of the movie when basically there's the whole turn of her coming into her own but not necessarily abandoning who she is as a person, but she's empowered and she's found her calling accidentally slash by stalking her ex-boyfriend but it works out so that's good i guess yeah so three nipples one of them belongs to bruiser the dog love bruiser i usually hate movie dogs as you know i mean i think bruiser should have been a cat in in which case i would have given the movie eight nipples and all of them would

have been to the bruiser the cat in cat facts or whatever, whatever I usually say. But one of them goes to bruiser and the other two, one to Paulette, and I'm going to give one to Professor Stromwell, the strong, independent woman who empowers Elle at the end to not quit law school and to be the lawyer she was meant to be. Yes, queen. Queen, yes. We love it. I'm so tired. Okay, so what do I have left?

What do I have left? What do I have left? We're so close to the end. What do I have left in my body that hasn't already been stolen from me at this point? I think I just have a heavy crisis. Okay, I have to give this movie two and a half nipples. As much as I do genuinely like it and think it's generally it is coming from the right place i would be lying if i said that oh god what is the name of the movie again legally blonde no no no no what if you just forgot what we've been talking about i've been bullshitting

no the iconic film that came before it, Tiziana Buberalli. I would be lying if I said that the reveal that Tiziana Buberalli led to this movie being made didn't impact my general view of it. I hope it affects yours, too. That's a pretty horrifying rug to have pulled out from underneath you that's like finding out that like moana wouldn't have been made if there wasn't like dick rangers for like the director of dick rangers for hadn't made a snapchat video that had won an award it's sundance i just it's upsetting my main issue with this movie for all the little stuff we picked apart, which is valid, not to make our job sound useless, for all that fucking bitching we just did, moment one, I don't like the message this communicates to its very young audience that an appropriate

way to deal with a breakup as a young person is to not accept a breakup. That is such a horrible idea. And I embarrassingly did this exact thing in high school because I'd seen movies like this where it works out. For me, I took a bus to Connecticut. It did not work out. It was deeply embarrassing. I think about it easily once a day. But I mean, like speaking to that larger thing, I am not alone in having done something like that because of movies like this that convey the message, just basically empowering unhealthy behaviors. And even though it is positive, obviously, that Elle's plan to win Warner back does not work out and does not work out for the right reasons, the fact that she still does have this new fulfilling life because of this deeply flawed problematic plan is just not a good message to be sending to children who don't know anything. Just remember, they will believe what hot people tell them like that's just how children very easily influence and the reason we do this podcast

is because movies do have a significant impact on our development right in the way that we for better or worse yeah so the fact that so many movies portray romantic relationships is like or breakups is like well the uh the way i'm gonna win him or her back is to stalk them for a long time and sometimes in movies that works and it's like it happens and i can't think of an example top of dump but there are a lot of examples of men doing this to women in movies as well probably more yeah it's just not good. It's like right up there with my least favorite movie setups, right up there with the let me kidnap and re-educate a woman and then we'll be in love.

I just don't like the foundation of this movie to me, along with Tensiana Buberalli, is deeply flawed. I can't deal with it. woods i think is an awesome character most of the female characters have elements of great characters but are not fully fleshed out possibly because the narrative is a little saturated with a lot of characters anyways i like the movie i'm so tired two and a half nipples I've given one to Elle Woods she fucking earned it I'll give a nippy to Paulette as well because she deserved better

and I'll give my last half nip to Vivian no inspired awards here just giving it to people who earned them sure sure sure well also I wanted to no I literally had a physical response to you saying also so that's our way way way way too long and I'm sorry I literally had a physical response to you saying also.

So that's our way, way, way, way too long. And I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry. Just so you know, this is a far better product than we were originally delivering, which is us drunkenly slurring about how we like Titanic. Yeah. For maybe a half hour. You're welcome that you're not listening to that garbage. I feel physically winded. I'm just like yeah, we gotta go to bed.

I hope you enjoyed this. I think you fucking should. That was a lot of nuanced critique. We did. In fact, I feel like if we had cut it any shorter we would have left out some valuable discourse. Yeah. So here we are, giving it to you straight

to all you matrons out there. We're straight shooters. We'll try not to make all their episodes this long but hey. They don't care. Who knows what'll happen. They love it. Do you love it? They're addicted to it. They're sick. Alright well Guys I hope you're not too tired.

And uh Happy New Year Oh yeah it's gonna be before the news. guys I hope you're not too tired and happy new year oh yeah just come back before the news and good tidings to you good job bye oh wait oh no and a happy Tiziana Bubarelli

so that was our unlocked Matron episode available now on the main feed on the film Legally legally blonde and like we said earlier used to it don't get used to it all the other ones are they're staying there they're they're locked in the disney vault except the bechdel the bechdel vault but yes thank you for listening we hope you enjoyed it it was fun for us to revisit as well um and just like there's no better like legally it's a good time to watch legally blonde and now in history's darkest hour it's a fun time to watch legally

blonde indeed so thank you for listening uh you can find us online in all the normal places you can find us on instagram and twitter at bechdel cast you can can, of course, join the damn Patreon. Patreon.com slash Bechdelcast. There's other stuff. I just remembered another theme we did. Ooh. Revenge Burr? Oh, yeah. Every title, the titles are horrific.

I love them so much. But we've done a lot. And then we'll also do annual Oscar roundups and stuff like that. So a little more niche fun stuff going on over there. So we hope you enjoyed this. And you can also get our merch at tpublic.com slash the Bechtel cast. And we'll see you next week, gang.

Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

That's right, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories,

and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadson. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.