The Bechdel Cast - Mamma Mia with Miel Bredouw

Episode Date: August 23, 2018

Dancing queens Jamie Loftus and Caitlin Durante invite special guest Miel Bredouw to their podcast / wedding to discuss Mamma Mia (2008). Here we go again.(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @Miel on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Do do do do do do do do do do do do do Kayla, do you want to start it? Oh, she's the guitarist Oh wait, no, we're singing different songs Oh, I don't understand And we're off different songs. Oh, I don't understand. And we're off to an excellent start. My name's Jamie Loftus.

My name's Caitlin Durante. And this is the Bechtelcast. I'm having a panic attack. What is going on today? We started a different way and it threw us all off. I'm willing to jump onto the song. Can you okay so this is the back to the cats it's our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies we use the bechdel test as our jumping off point if you're joining us for the first time welcome i have a question for caitlin and this will pass the bechdel test okay maybe well i don't know it

depends on like abba we know that that includes some men sure what is your favorite abba song well this won't pass the bechdel test because my favorite abba song is fernando mine's super trooper okay i feel like that's is that a b-side or is that an a-side uh i don't know abba's like catalog enough to really be able to tell but so fernando is my favorite abba song that means that conversation does not pass the bechdel test because the bechdel test requires that a movie that you're watching has two named female identifying characters they have to speak to each other in the movie and their conversation which only by our standards has to be a two-line exchange but it cannot be about men so fernando doesn't and technically abba doesn't because abba is comprised of who who all is in abba uh a bunch a bunch the

whole gang oh the whole gang's here okay gang is in it and uh we love them all except maybe some of them are bad we don't know i bet i would say i think abba's four or five people i would say probably at least it's four people super producer sophie is saying so i would say four people probably at least one of them is not a good person just statistically where 90 of people are bad uh and their names are and i have four we have swedish listeners first of all good for us yeah and second of all, good for us. Yeah. And second of all, I'm about to really destroy the pronunciation of these Swedish names. But it's Agnetha Faltzkog, Bjorn Olveas, Benny Anderson, love that, and Annie Frid Lingstad. So, you know, some guys and some gals, and're all fully Aryan and they're here for your entertainment. Let's get into the podcast.

Let's do it. So today we're talking about Mamma Mia, the first one. You are the dancing queen. Oh my God. And here with us to join our discussion is a very wonderful person, co-host of Punch Up the Jam podcast, Miel Bredo. Hey. Hi. Isn't ABBA two married couples or it was really all divorced?

Really? I thought it was. I didn't know that. I'm like a low-key ABBA stan, just know enough to be dangerous, don't actually know what I'm talking about. I totally believe that. They look like they're two couples the way that they're photographed. But the guys get the executive producer rights

on these movies, and I don't see the girls' names in there. Ooh, I wonder. I think maybe the guys wrote the songs, but the girls sing all of them, so it's very confusing. I don't know what's happening here. You don't really think of male voices at all

when you think of ABBA. Right. It's the gals. Do-ba-ba-ba. Do-ba-ba. Do-ba-ba-ba. Do-ba-ba-ba. Do-ba-ba-ba. Do, ba, ba, ba. Do, ba, ba, ba. Do, ba, ba, ba. Do, ba, ba, ba. Do, ba, ba, ba.

Do, ba, ba, ba. Do, ba, ba, ba. That's it. The person repeating the name of the song in the background is usually the man. Also, shout out Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson, who executive produced these movies. This is, okay,

Mamma Mia is one of my favorite kind of cheesy Hollywood movies where it's so clear that it's like everyone wanted to go on vacation. Quality was not the priority here. Everyone wanted to go on vacation. I'm sure all these actors vaguely at least knew each other

and they're like, yeah, I'd go on vacation with this. Seems fun. They all look like they're having so much fun, even when the movie is so annoying. It's an annoying movie, and I loved it. I love it.

What's your history with this movie slash musical? Okay, I think I probably first watched it when I was sick at home eight years ago. And it just kind of was on, and I was too weak to change it. That's how all great movies are seen for the first time. I definitely did not seek this out. It happened to me.

And then it kind of stuck with me. And then probably a couple years ago, I was like, I kind of want to watch it again. So I did and I was like, this is trash in every sense of the word. And I love it. It's so good.

And then they found out they're making a second one i was like are you fucking kidding me yes and i went out opening weekend so you've seen it already oh yeah and obviously we're not talking about the second one but in case you were wondering if it makes any sense it does not no the first one betrays so many things they set up there's so many continuity errors they say the mom is dead outright in the first one. And then it ends up being Cher in the second one. Whoa. It's very insane.

That does not make any sense. Yeah, there's a lot of continuity errors. I'm just going to treat it like Spider-Man, like where they just started over. It's a spiritual sequel. Yeah. That's so fucked. It's fun, though. Oh, I love it. It's trash in sequel. Yeah. That's so fucked. It's fun, though.

Oh, I love it. It's trash in a good way. I just, like, and it's the movie, and Kaelin, you made this point the other night, because we tried to watch the movie together, and then it was, like, literally 12 minutes in, and we're like, we actually all have to go to bed. We went to Super Producer Sophie's house to watch it,

and we're just like, you know what? It's not going to happen. There's just, the lighting is, you put it, is so horrible. It's really, like, so I'm not usually that much of a snob when it comes to like the visual aspects of movies. Which is crazy because you do have two degrees in film. I do have a master's degree in screenwriting though. Not in film production.

So I'm not inclined to like pay as much attention to the more like mechanical side of filmmaking i'm all about story but this movie does everything so badly that you can't not notice it like the lighting is extremely bad the cinematography is so boring this is the most static movie i've ever seen in my life you have to give a shout out to the one continuous shot when they're walking up the hill of the church at the end that is fucking insane that is pretty yeah but i'm with you because they do day for night the worst i've ever seen it since 1920 really bad day for night the editing is also really boring and bad oh i wouldn't say boring i would say bad choreography is really bad no come on no I can't come on at this time

it's so bland oh it's the whole first scene with Amanda Seyfried and her shitty friends who don't have names I don't think they do friends have names they like shouted at each other where they're like

tiny we're Sophie, Allie, Lisa and we're the greatest bestest mates I'm tough I is our song we are friends we're Sophie Allie Lisa and we're the greatest bestest mates I'm tough I'm tall I'm tiny

and we're gonna rock this place that's the only time they say that literally that's what me, Caitlin and Sophie do every time we yeah yeah yeah that whole first scene

is like Amanda's is it Seyfried or Seyfried or does it matter I'm not sure whatever you believe it is she has flesh colored hair

freaks me out but I do have a thing has flesh colored hair freaks me out. But I do have a thing with flesh colored hair. But she's like squinting and the sun is in her eyes for the whole first scene for Honey Honey. She's like,

Honey Honey Honey. It's like she's more like Sunny Sunny. What? Your eyes are way more sensitive to light when they're blue. I can attest to this.

I can't go outside without sunglasses on. I literally can't see. Oh. Whoa. Yeah, because you don't have any pigment to help you filter sunlight or whatever. Wow. We have strong eyes. You do.

Your evolution. We have sturdy eyes. Our eyes are sturdy like an eye. Yeah, I've got some pretty hefty eyes. But all three of them seem like they're in pain first number where they're like it's clearly very hot and yeah it's bright oh god the lighting jamie what is your history saw it this morning loved it oh i loved it i wish i had seen it when it came out have you never seen it before this morning no and it And it's something that I was like, I knew I was gonna really like it.

You predicted I would really like it. I love a big, dumb musical. I really do. I love, especially I love Hollywood musicals where no one can sing. But most of them, with the extreme exception of Pierce Brosnan, most of them can act.

None of them can sing. That's my favorite kind of Hollywood musical. When they can't sing or act, that's scary. When they can sing and can't act, like when they bring

Broadway people into movies and it doesn't translate, that makes me sad. So this is my favorite like permutation of this format where it's like

Meryl Streep is merriling out. She does a great job acting and the second she starts to sing, you're like, whoa, she's really bad. But this is like everyone's having so much fun they don't even seem to

care that they suck i bet that most of these people if asked would be like yeah i'm not a great singer yeah i would but i had a great time in greece they do look like they're having fun yeah so my history with this movie is i saw the stage production when I was in college. So somewhere around probably like 2005. In New York City? City Where Dreams Come True? No, this would be in State College Pennsylvania, home of Penn State University where I did get my first

film degree. That's another City Where Dreams Come True. Known for their Broadway shows. Big touring production town. Exactly. And I really liked it. I touring production town. Exactly. So I saw it and I really liked it. I liked the stage production. Is everyone in the stage

production white also? As far as I can remember, it was a predominantly white cast, yes. And then I didn't see the movie when it came out. I didn't see it until earlier this year. I went to Boston to visit friend of the cast, JT Taylor, and he made me watch it. Good guy.

And I kept protesting. And I said, I really don't want to. And he said, please. And I said, OK, fine. Because he's like, the new one's coming out. You have to be prepared. He's right. It's good when a friend looks out for you.

Yeah. Yeah. So we watched it and I was like, man, this movie is not good. I'm sure if I liked musicals, I would like this much better. But I have a very, very low threshold for liking movie musicals. I don't know that you would, to be honest. This is not a typical movie musical. Right. Because they're usually better than

this movie i don't know already you have to get over the hump of it's a jukebox musical where they tried to string a storyline through songs so that already were written that's crazy that's what the this is why i don't like this movie the story makes no sense because they reversed engineered a story around across the universe to cross the universe. Right. Oh, it is. I'm pretty sure this was like the OG musical of this nature or maybe at least one of the first really popular ones where stuff like across the universe,

which is not nearly as good. I don't know why I think this movie is so good. I don't know either. The word isn't good, but it is on that spectrum. There's a word. We're going to find it. It is not good. It's enjoyable, perhaps?

It is popular. I think it's a word that doesn't exist yet. OK. We're going to create it. We'll make it up. We'll get there. I bet this got nominated for an Oscar for costumes. I doubt it.

Maybe, but the costumes aren't even that good. They're on the same one pair of overalls, one Oscar. She looks great in those overalls. I was waiting for those overalls to result in a camel toe. I was on full Meryl Streep camel toe plot. And? Because they seemed inevitable. If you're a frequent wearer of overalls, it happens a lot.

Well, no, you're a tall person. I think this is a unique experience. I've never had a camel toe from overalls or onesies. Oh, my God. It's so hard to find overalls with like a decent torso length. Yeah. See, this is your cross to bear as a person over 5'5". I was really hoping.

I was praying for a streep camel toe. And? God was asleep. Oh no. It didn't happen for me. I think that's an automatic fail of the Bechdel test. No camel toe. A breaststroke doesn't have a full on camel toe.

It doesn't pass. It doesn toe. Pull on camel toe. It doesn't pass. It doesn't. Oh, no. Okay. Here's Braston. Guys. Where? Okay.

Oh, and I also, I did see Mamma Mia Here We Go Again a few nights ago. And? Also, don't like it. No. Don't find it. Removing Meryl Streep was a mistake. Yes. For sure. Do you think she was just Meryl Streep was a mistake. Yes. For sure.

Do you think she was just unwilling to do it again? My guess, yes. She's in the movie. For one scene. For a scene. At the end. One scene. She's taping Doubt 2.

An extremely doubtful movie. And Philip Seymour Hoffman's just like a hologram. Well, it's kind of like how they killed off Meryl Streep. He appears for a ghost. They're like, well, the priest died, so we have to find a new source of dramatic tension for Doubt 2. It's mostly about Amy Adams and Meryl Streep starting a new religion. Right, right. It's pretty cool.

Doubt 2! This movie comes out the same year as Doubt. Right. So Meryl, I like to think Doubt was filmed first. And, you know, because that's the kind of movie that she probably made like $6 for. And she's just screaming at Hoffman all day long. Does real heavy stuff. And she's like, God, I'm exhausted.

I wish someone would pay me a billion dollars to hang out in Greece and not really try. The one thing I want to say about Mamma Mia 2 is that, this is not a spoiler, but there is a direct Titanic reference in the movie where Colin Firth and Stellan Skarsgård are on the front of a boat. One is behind the other one. The one in front has his arms outstretched and it's just like the jack and rose scene it's the most like beautiful homoerotic scene in a straight movie like it's such a gift the whole sequence reminds me of fast and the furious if we're being honest

this has been suggested to us by former uh for i was gonna say former friend of the pod, like we hate her now. My fucking enemy. No, former guest of the pod, Faye Orlov, has really repeatedly flooded my phone with a demand for all eight Fast movies reviewed in one episode. Oh. Which would be a hell of an episode. No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no. Sophie's saying no.

I'm just narrating her head movement. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Sophie's saying no. I'm just narrating her head movement. No, no, no, no, no, no. Sophie seems to be really not loving this idea. But my counterpoint is I did watch all the Lord of the Rings movie, and that was the trial of a lifetime. Yes, so we'll be on the lookout for our Lord of the Rings episode. Okay, so I'll do the recap of Mamma Mia. Yes. So the story of Mamma Mia 2008 is Sophie, that's Amanda Seyfried's character.

Flesher. She, old Flesher. She lives on a Greek island called Kalakari with her mom, Donna, that's Meryl Streep, at a hotel that they run together. And Meryl Streep's beautiful but also busted hotel. Yes. And Sophie is about to get married, but Sophie does not know who her father is. And she's like, who's going to give me away at the wedding but then she finds her mom's diary that she kept during the year that she was pregnant with sophie and gets so excited about her mom fucking in a way that is like okay it's not like you shouldn't like not want your mom to have sex but there is a

threshold of like you're way too excited that your mom is like she it's like yeah your mom you know really cleaned up that summer but why are you like she's like yeah i think it sets the tone of the movie right out the top of women are so fucking horny in this movie even for their own moms okay so she finds this diary and in the diary donna tells the story of three different guys that she slept with over the course of a very short amount of time. So these are the three. Raw dog also. Raw dog. Yes.

Oh, it was a raw summer. Very raw. Raw. Not a piece of contraception in sight. No. Okay, the timeline of this movie is very funny to me because if we're taking the lyrics at face value, later on when they're like, you go, Meryl, it's good that, you know, you should sleep with whoever you want. They use Dancing Queen, young and sweet, only 17, which would imply that Meryl Streep is 37 in this movie?

Because her daughter's 20. 20, yeah. Right. Don't pay attention to the timeline. You're going to ruin it. Don't even think about it. Meryl Streep's 37 years old, right? Yeah, yeah, 20. Right. Don't pay attention to the timeline. You're going to ruin it. Don't even think about it. Meryl Streep's 37 years old, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Bitch, she's 37. Okay. A lot of sun exposure in Greece. Yeah. So she finds a diary and in it, it tells of Sam, Bill, and Harry. And these are the three people who might be Sophie's father so Sophie sends out

wedding invitations to all three of them she somehow knows their addresses even though her mom Donna has not spoken to them in 20 years she's a hacker she hacked she fully hacked

Amanda Seyfried's husband is kind of a hacker in that although i do think he is just using squarespace he's like i'm making a website it's really clean looking so sophie invites all three of these men to the wedding and then we see a montage scene of them dropping literally everything that they're doing and rushing to their respective airports to get to this wedding. But they think Donna invited them. So they dropped everything to try to fuck. Yeah. Yeah.

And they haven't fucked in 20 years that they fucked once. It is so weird that all of them, like the men in this movie are extremely docile, like in very obedient to the point where it is kind of irrational where it's like, wait, you just showed up? Yeah, they're safe men. They're super safe.

They're allies. Or they're extremely unhinged in that I would be like, hey, do you mind sailing across? They're all in a very tiny boat together. It's clearly not easy to get there. And they're like, yeah very tiny boat together like it's clearly not easy to get there yeah and they're like yeah sure they might have fucked they might well any everyone fucks in this movie i'm pretty sure for sure so sophie wants to figure out which of these three guys is her

father so she invites them all to the wedding under the pretense that it was donna who invited them so they all right and they arrive and they're like oh we're here to see donna and sophie's like no you can't see her yet and then whenever your hair donna finds out that they're there she pitches a horny fit basically i love that horny fit she's underneath the fucking floorboards and it's like i'm so horny this is my worst nightmare and also my getting too horny getting horny is my worst nightmare i haven't done it before and i'm scared um there's no i i used to have this dream that everyone i've ever had sex with would just like be having brunch without me and i would that's a nightmare that's nightmare. But that's basically kind of what happens

where like three guys she had sex with who she didn't think knew each other are all there 20 years later and she's freaked out by it, but she doesn't ask a lot of questions. No. Well, again, almost nothing in this story makes sense. I love it.

The boathouse scene is where they start incorporating this like very off and on Greek chorus theme they have going on throughout this movie. They just pop out of nowhere and are part of the scene all of a sudden. The locals are like, hey, we're singing too. The only vaguely non-white people in the movie, who I'm pretty sure are all actually white still. There's not a single Grecian person in this movie. No, I feel like the only Grecian people are used very much as set dressing yes right like as is the the unfortunate trend in movies like this where they're like let's just put

a bunch of extremely caucasian people and then we'll have people who live there but holding chickens right not speaking roles they're having things thrown at them they work for the white people and that is mostly uh unfortunately how that that goes. Same in the second one, if anyone's keeping track. They did not redeem themselves. Oh, good. They learned nothing. Right. As long as no one learned anything. Okay. So then the dads are there and Sophie's like, let's spend the day together. And then throughout the course of like, because her wedding is the following day. So throughout the course of this, like 24 hours, she spends time with them. She she's kind of like has like a one-on-one moment with each of them and during those moments each of

the men bill harry and um sam right are like wait a minute i'm your father aren't i and she's like idk and then she's like yeah right never, yeah. So much confusion is created where she, anytime someone's like, am I your dad? She says, yes. Uh-huh. Yes. Are you? Yeah.

And then they later, the reverse happens where they run up to her. They're like, I'm your dad. And she's like, oh. And that also happens three times. Right. So she doesn't know. And then meanwhile, Donna is like, why are these dads here?

I don't, like, are these dads here i don't like sophie can never find out and then so like it's this whole comedy of errors kind of thing where it's like i don't know that she knows and she doesn't know that i know and blah blah blah blah and then finally at the end during the wedding of sophie and her fiance sky so then at the wedding all the dads are like yeah i might be your dad but we don't need to need. So then at the wedding, all the dads are like, yeah, I might be your dad, but we don't need to know. You're our daughter anyway. And Donna's like, yeah, everything's great and everything. And then Sophie decides not to get married after all.

But then Pierce Brosnan's like, why waste a good wedding? So then Pierce Brosnan, who is Sam. Why waste a good wedding? That's my Pierce Brosnan impression. is Sam. Sam, why waste a good wedding? That's my Pierce Brosnan impression. And then they get married, and then there's some more songs, and that is the end of the movie. That's another thing I love about movies of this nature, is they take 12 minutes to end for no reason.

For sure. So let's take a quick break, and then we'll come back for the discussion. Yay! So let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the discussion. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. and she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel,

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Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky

and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels, into something everyone in the South loves, the biscuits. I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? I mean, the Boone County Rebels will stay the Boone County Rebels with the image of the Biscuits. It's right here in black and white in print. They lying. An individual that came to the school saying that God sent him to talk to me about the mascot switch is a leader. You choose hills that you want to die on. Why would we want to be the losing team? I just take all the other stuff out of it.

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Okay. I know. You got to go to that like weird augmented thing. I know. It's like. It's a spooky chord. It's kind of like a haunted house. Because it's scary. It's a scary chord.

It's a cool thing they did. They're cool songwriters. They're cool. The A's were married to the B's. But the B's were the only ones in the movie. I'm so mad about all of this. Yeah. They should be called Baba.

Baba Boo. a movie i'm so mad about all of this yeah they shouldn't be called baba baba that's the sequel of mama mia baba buoy it takes place in new jersey um i'm on board it's trying to to figure out who owns the spaghetti restaurant. Like, what is Baba Booey? Baba Booey. Here I go again. My, my. Why Baba Booey?

My, my. Where's the pasta meatball? Baba Booey. I want two meatball sandwiches. Okay. Two. Call back to point break. Okay.

All right. So. Hi. This is our most unhinged episode. I'm so sorry. I think I'm the reason. I'm so sorry. You broke us.

I'm so sorry. I fucked it up. reason. I'm so sorry. You broke us. I'm so sorry. I fucked it up. I brought my notes and they're really bad. Never apologize. This is a safe place. No one ever brings notes. This is thrilling. Oh, bubba booey. That's so great. So I kind of, the first time I saw this, I like kind of went, I watched and I was like, I don't even know what I'm going to say about this. Like, what are my talking points? And then one of our fans tweeted at us with tweets from Keely Flattery, who is... Is that BuzzFeed someone?

Yeah. She tweeted the, yes, Mamma Mia is a fun and fluffy musical, but also the story is about a working single mother. It's about sex positivity. It's about the importance and longevity of female friendships. It's about dismantling the pressure placed on people, especially women, to get married. Also, yeah, we'll debate that. And it's about an imperfect but deeply loving relationship between a mother and a daughter. It's men excited

to embrace their role as fathers yes it's men father figures showing up for and prioritizing their daughter and it's about the beauty of non-traditional families so i was like okay this i can kind of use some of these as sort of the basis of that's i think that that's maybe a little bit too nice but but definitely all of those are grounded in what happens in the movie. And on the serious note, this is like one of those weird movies that I feel like these kinds of movies always do so well internationally. Because like a lot of movies we've been covering recently, there are hints of female empowerment and sex positivity. But the conclusion of the movie is always very heteronormative of like, we're

getting married and literally every woman given attention in the story, so I'm kind of counting out Fleshhead's friends, because we really only see them at the beginning. And they're not in the second one. Oh, they're not? Yeah. They're not really characters.

But the four main women, Amanda, Meryl, Christine, Ron Weasley's mom, right? Those are their character names. And all of them, by the end, and I was like, oh, maybe Ron Weasley's mom will get to be single. But they don't. I mean, every single one of those women ends up with a guy, or it's implied that they're going to end up with a guy. And there's a song for all of them about how they're going to ends up with a guy or it's implied that they're going to end up with a guy and there's a song for all of them

about how they're going to end up with a guy. Meryl, who is like the most sex positive character in the movie, is married to Pierce Brosnan. I don't know. It's like it goes in the right direction and then at the end it just reaches kind of the obvious heteronormative conclusion. Well, I mean, you're forgetting Colin Firth

does say he's gay and end up with a man hetero that's true that yeah that's true and i also will say bone to pick with that tweet is that stellan skarsgard's like whole end of movie arc here is that he's like i don't want to be a dad at all i'm not ready for this that's true so i don't know about the last third guy right we're right but to me instead of uh ron weasley's mom she is mrs bird from paddington and paddington too so that's really how i'm gonna classify her but um i'm calling her not tracy ullman okay everyone has an interesting take on this woman she she is great in this movie and her and christine make the really, like, give us that. I would like that movie.

Right. Christine Baranski is wonderful. Christine Baranski hints at her own semi-obvious plastic surgery in one shot of this where she pulls her face back in the mirror. Well, no, it's like a whole plot point. Yeah. They're, like, making fun of her for all the work she's had done. And then when she sees Amanda Seyfried, she's like, you probably don't recognize me. And they're like, yeah, because your face is so different.

It's like, can we stop subtweeting Christine, please? But she seems game for it. I know. And her back muscles are amazing. I love her in The Good Wife and The Good Fight and How the Grinch Stole Christmas and Chicago. And what else is she in? Love it all. Bowfinger is my favorite movie that she's in. So Christine Baranski and Mrs. Bird of Paddington

are Donna's two best friends. And they appear again in the sequel. And then we all love it and have a great time. I feel like they pass right at the top when she's razzing her about the cookbook on the boat, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of their stuff does. So yeah, it's a great female friendship i think

um there's really nothing coming between them they're all like well why didn't you tell us about like who what like but other than that there's like not that much tension in the story between them it's just like all it's all kind of positivity yeah they yet the few conflicts that come up sort of end with the other two like lifting her up where there are times where and this didn't even totally miss for me but like when donna merrill occasionally expresses like regret or shame or feeling bad about herself or fearing that her daughter will judge her because her daughter is sort of like more conservative and traditional than her mom is.

But every time that happens, her two friends are like, no, you're great. Like, you were so hot and fun. And then they sing Dancing Queen. And anytime like Meryl's feeling, like they do the friend thing and they're like, no, you're the best. And you fucked so much.

And we thought that was awesome. Yeah, you raw dogged hard that summer. And then Meryl's like, you know what? I did raw dog a lot that summer. And then she starts to dance in the bed and I was like, this rules. Yeah, so it's like women uplifting other women. That's very nice to see.

Does Dancing Queen pass? Dancing Queen? You are the song. I don't think it mentions men. Does it? Yeah, I think a lot of it does. At least there are exchanges that do. But it's weird because in this movie they give random characters they try i love how they it's such everything

is a reach in terms of contextualizing it where the end of honey honey where it's like all about her mom fucking and at the end it's like but i wish i had a daddy that's the end you're just like you miss me with that i think that is one of the big problems that i have with this movie is that it's a story driven by sophie desperately needing to know who her father is and feeling emptiness because she does not have a father in her life i think sophie is like my least favorite character in the movie oh Oh, she's insufferable. She sucks. She super sucks. Not that it's like. Because her fiance is like, I don't really want to get married. Can we please not?

And her mom's like, hey, why are you doing this? And she's like, fuck you. I'm establishing a ruse. I want three men here. This is the lamest parent trap ever. It literally is. And that's not to say like if you don't know who one of your parents is, it's okay that that could bother you.

Like, that's logical. That's fine. But the way she goes about it just, you know, she's like, oh, this is the key. And that's not really thoroughly challenged. Yeah, I think her, like, she says something like, I need to know who my dad is in order to feel complete. Direct quote from the movie is that I feel like there's a part of me missing. And I think at one point

Skye, her fiance, says something like, no, you just need to figure your own self out. Knowing who your dad is isn't going to help you find yourself. You have to find yourself. He says you already have a family. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that, but I think that's the

extent to which that goes challenged. Well, at the end though, her whole arc is realizing the error of her ways. She ends up being like, why did I need a dad? I've had you this whole time. You gave me a way at the wedding. But then it's also like, why do I need a dad? I have three dads now. So it's like, I feel like the message wasn't like, my mom was enough the whole time.

It was like, now I have four parents. The mom gives was like now I have four parents yeah but then the mom gets married I don't know well again so so much of this movie doesn't make like characters reactions to things often don't make sense but the story is written that way to serve the next song that's coming up so like I feel like a discussion that we would

like usually have in an episode like this we're just like, well, it doesn't even make any sense. No, you can't. Nothing makes sense. It's just a series of setups for another Abbott song. But building a movie around the theme of the very regressive giving away, like one man gives you away to another man, and it's like, no, my mom's going to give me away to another

man. But then she doesn't get married. I think Skye should dump her personally because she's not awesome. It seems like Skye's here. He's got his Squarespace account. He seems to really care about her. He's helpful. He goes along with her family.

And she's always like, I'm scamming people. And I'm mad. And I'm yelling at my mom. Yeah, she is. Rather than just talking to anyone about what's troubling her, like instead of being like, hey, mom, could you maybe give me a little more information about who my father might be? She like steals her diary, reads it, which is like a huge violation of her mom's privacy, then goes through the trouble of like inviting those guys like she doesn't know how those relationships like panned out or like how they ended like they might have like who knows no she actually knows that sam like cheated on his fiance with her mom oh that's how they left

things and she invited him anyway that's right yeah that's really mean to your mom right it's very selfish what she's doing like yeah instead of because and maybe i really like it because there were some moments of watching this movie where i was just smiling so much that i don't think i was fully listening does she ever reference ever being like and i asked my mom who my father was and she said no i'm never gonna tell you and that's why she's scamming at the very beginning she says something to the effect that Donna had told her like oh it was just a

summer romance and that's all she's like and I came to accept that that's all I'd ever know and then when she finds this diary she's like oh I can use this to like piece together the puzzle but it is supposed to be a reveal at the end at the altar when Meryl Streep's like I don't know which one it is that's supposed to be news but like to doy you don't know like right how is that a surprise like we put that together as

viewers in the first scene there it is weird I don't know I mean to an extent like you're saying Caitlin like tearing apart the plot of this movie is like pointless it is fun but it is also pointless but yeah like the thing was like she could she's she's an adult. She could go up to her mom and be like, hey, I'm getting married. And I'm like, sorry if this makes you uncomfortable. You don't have to answer. But like, do you know who my father is? We're led to believe they have a good relationship.

But I will say we see them together very little. And when they are together, there's like seems to be some animosity between each other because it seems like Donna disapproves of this wedding and of her getting married to Skye. She for sure does. But then it's all remedied with slipping through my fingers. That's like the big moment of like, fuck. I don't want you to grow up.

That's what this really is. I love you. She's like, clearly we need you, Mom. Come here. I did like that. I don't know. That scene, it made me cry. It made me think about my mom.

That made you cry? Yeah. I cried when Meryl Streep cannonballed off the dock at the end of Dancing Queen. In the fake slow-mo, like they couldn't afford a higher frame rate. What the fuck was that? You're just like, that passes the Bechdel test. Meryl Streep doing a cannonball passes the Bechdel test. The lady throwing her sticks in the air and joining the dancing conga line, that passes the Bechdel test the lady throwing her sticks in the air and joining the

dancing conga line that passes the Bechdel test oh yes does she come back in the second movie I feel like there's a quick reference to her

I think there is yeah she doesn't join the oh my god but there is at the just to close the loop on the

mother daughter relationship it is weird and all over the place as is all of this movie I did like at the end where one of place as is all of this movie i did like at the end where one of the few coherent themes of this was meryl streep fearing being judged by her

own daughter for past promiscuity that is like a definite thing that we know that she's worried about her daughter learning about and passing judgment on and they do close that loop like right before the fucking nuts wedding not wedding scene where meryl like kind of directly asked her like she's like i'm sorry and like do you hate me because i fuck a lot which is passive-aggressive you know but and then emma's favorite is like no you can fuck whoever you want you're my mom i think she even says you can have sex with a hundred people and i wouldn't care and then she's like and the priest is like what yeah i thought i was like was that i was like did you fuck the priest but but it seems nice and and then amanda seyfried's

like you give me away and then i did cry oh dude then you're gonna ball on the second one no i love i i do like i know that you don't like wedding culture i like i love wedding culture i love i love wedding culture i like looking at other people's pinterest boards well let's take a quick break and then we'll be right back with my hot takes about weddings weddings. Swish! Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017 was murdered.

There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption

that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. I've been thinking about you. Available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. One session, 24 hours. BPM 110, 120.

She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything?

You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was December 2019 when the story blew up. In Green Bay, Wisconsin, former Packers star Kabir Bajabiamila caught up in a bizarre situation. KGB explaining what he believes led to the arrest of his friends at a children's Christmas play.

A family man, former NFL player, devout Christian, now cut off from his family and connected to a strange arrest. I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. I got swept up in Kabir's journey, but this was only the beginning. In a story about faith and football, the search for meaning away from the gridiron and the consequences for meaning away from the gridiron and

the consequences for everyone involved you mix homesteading with guns in church and a little bit of the spice of conspiracy theories that we liked voila you got straight away i felt like i was living in north korea but worse if that's possible listen to spiraled on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast welcome back we're back i do me uh everyone knows papa philly i really quickly i do want to say about so here are my problems with weddings and then we can move on to something else mras are about to slide in get ready well you know what if mras don't hate us then we're not we're not doing a good job that's true i think that's true so weddings traditional hetero weddings are steeped in pretty sexist traditions where it's like, oh, my daughter is property and I, the father,

have to give her literally away. Or pay you to marry her. Right. I have to give you 400 goats to get rid of this bitch. Yeah. So the fact that like we maintain that tradition in contemporary weddings is really baffling to me. That's another thing that made me not like Sophie. Because I don't have a problem with... I mean, I understand that wedding culture and marriage is inherently patriarchal and regressive. But Sophie's character is like... It's so weird where...

Oh, this was the moment where I was like Skye should dump her where basically he calls her out where and I hate taking a man's side on literally anything but I am sort of like team Skye on this one because he also says to her he's like listen I didn't want to get married and I put my life on hold

because I love you and this is what you said you wanted and now it turns out that you were just throwing a big fucking parent trap that has nothing I didn't want to get married and I put my life on hold because I love you. And this is what you said you wanted. And now it turns out that you were just throwing a big fucking parent trap that has nothing to do with me. And she's like, so what do you not love me? And he's like, no, I do. But why did you turn this thing into a parent trap? You spent all our money on a parent trap. That's frustrating.

That's a frustrating quality in a mate much like disney's the parent trap where lindsey lohan one of the characters is like i'm not going to be complete until i've met my father because a daddy is such a crucial part of a girl's life and like that movie but at least it goes both ways where it's also with the parent desire for a mother yeah in this movie like she already has a very strong bond with her mother she has seems like good relationships with her mother's friends. It's unclear how often she sees them. Not often. Christine Bransky is a new face every time she sees her. They act like, do you remember me?

But it seems like between Sophie's mom and Skye, she has at least a couple of loving relationships so it's just a little unclear to me why she feels so empty and so incomplete by not knowing who her dad is and again that might be a sensation it's her arc yeah that's her i like she's projecting i wouldn't want to like make anyone like if i i mean i don't i was lucky enough to grow up with both of my parents so i wouldn't know what it's like to have a missing parent i. Like it sounds like there's a level of trauma for that for depending on who you are. Based on Star Wars, I think it's a pretty big deal. Yeah, exactly.

And if we are using that as our yardstick. It's a metric now. I know plenty of people though who grew up with a single parent and they don't seem to be pining for. Do they not know who their other parent is? Because I think that's the component that seems to be key in Star Wars. And in Mom and Dad. Who was my parent?

I'm sure Mela's her two-yard stick. I wouldn't want to shame anyone because I think that that is a rational feeling. Sure. But the way the story plays it out is a little bit, it doesn't challenge that at all.

Yeah, I understand the feeling. what i think i'm bothered by is her explaining that she feels incomplete like she needs a man in her life as a father figure and not having her that makes her feel incomplete like the right the implication is me as a woman, in order to feel complete, there needs to be a male presence there. And that's what is like I'm having trouble with. I didn't get that. I mean, I think technically it's probably true on paper, but I sensed that it was just a matter of I want to know who both my parents are. It didn't feel inherently like because she never even says like no one was there to teach me how to change a tire. Like there was no like allusion to like I need a man.

Like I really didn't get that. And from what I got from Sky it sounds like they met while he was traveling. Yeah. And he just like stopped on an island was like I'm going to stay I guess and marry her. Yeah. So like I get the sense that it's always been her and her mom and that's not been an issue. But now that she's getting married it's like well I kind of fucking do want to know who my dad is though. Right.

I don't know. The female stuff's so strong in this movie. I didn't really feel like it was a matter of, like, we need men. And, in fact, Christine's storyline to me was, like, the exact opposite. She's like, I just want to fuck, and I don't care about men. It's weird. Where this whole story is weird. I don't begrudge someone for wanting to know who both their parents are.

But it is, like, I do see what you're saying, Caitlin, with the feeling of and I feel like Meryl Streep's character even kind of articulates this a little bit of like, I understand that you want to know who your dad is, but it does make me feel bad that you feel such a gaping hole in your life when I tried really hard.

But they sort of seem to resolve that by the end. And then there's that great Meryl Streep has a great line, even though the storyline doesn't really end up reflecting it at all. But like when, I guess like Pierce Brosnan is supposed to be her one true love, which is, I've never seen less chemistry between two people in my whole life than Meryl Streep and Pierce Brosnan howling like wolverines at the top of a Grecian mountain to what's the fucking song?

The winner takes all? Winner takes all. But it's like a. That shot is also impressive, I will say. That is a good shot. Yeah, it's a good shot. But Pierce Brosnan and Meryl Streep are so physically far away from each other and singing and not making eye contact.

And they rearranged it. I hate it. They don't put the band in. But the Pierce thing. Okay. So she sees him again. And it took me a while to figure out he was the true love, which it makes sense. But anyways, I didn't figure it out until he's like, I've loved you this whole...

Like, to me, there's nothing that really clearly indicates. It's reflected in the journal. That's why they make Colferth gay. Because it's like, let's just take him off the table so you don't feel bad for him. Skarsgård's a drunk. It's reflected in the journal. That's why they make Colferth gay because it's like let's just take him off the table so you don't feel bad for him. Skarsgård's a drunk. He's a man.

Skarsgård the whole time is like I don't want to be here. I'm going to leave. And then Ron Weasley's mom is like no you ain't. Skarsgård I feel like disappears from the movie for a solid 45 minutes

and I forgot. I was here. I wanted to see a quivering. There's something about Colin Firth where it's like it just always he's acting like he's always someone's just thrown a bucket of water out to him or he's just

quivering that's why you have sex with him in like a bad way though right I'm just like you're so I'm going to fix you yeah I feel sorry for you I'm going to fix you you poor puppy but Meryl and Pierce are having some sort of confrontation and you're like sure

we're doing this but she said like he's like what you didn't like and none of the men say anything outright misogynist but they're sort of like meryl streep's magical vagina makes anyone fall in love with her for decades like it's just a thing and um can you imagine knowing someone for a week 20 years ago and still considering them like a viable part of your life? Do you want to get out of a dinghy and watch my daughter get married? He's like, yeah. Fuck yeah. Why did Colin Firth even go?

But anyway, she says, I love being on my own. I wake up every morning and I thank God for not having a middle-aged menopausal man, blah, blah, blah. And I'm single and it's great. Which is great. But when she's saying it, you can tell that she's like, she doesn't really feel that way. Well, then she sings money, money, and talks about how much she wants to just marry a rich man.

This is after that. And they do another Titanic reference. Do they? I mean, no one's holding her, but she's doing the pose at the bow of the boat. Yeah, she does. They just love Titanic in the Abba universe. That's her I'm the king of the world moment. Uh-huh.

Big time. That number is so weird, too, because that number starts with her breaking one of her own windows. And then she goes down to pick up the window. And then people start throwing money at her. And you're like, what are they giving her money for? It's like this Greek course thing they do for one third of the movie. And they're like, never mind. It's not working.

Stop. It was like, were Greek people only available for a full day because there's sometimes where her like hotel whatever it is seems hotel belladonna full of people and employees guests not sure and then other times where it's abandoned yeah it's because the square space has taken a while oh wait there is a full-on blooper just in the middle of the scene that they keep in there it was just like they did one take it's when um christine bransky meryl streep and mrs bird christine's like oh i know that you're gonna make a fortune with webs webs oh no she meant to say sky's website but she says webs and then they like make fun of her for it and like it's clear that it was like not in the script and she

just like blooper'd the hell out of that and then i love the script really yeah i was like i know the exact scene they're on the bench like drinking in the morning and i was like wow they're like really good at seeming authentic is she maybe she's that good i don't know why would she why would that that serve no purpose in the like i think there was just a blooper establishing friendship i don't know it seemed like a really good choice to me i was like i believe it now well then it i mean because they like laugh together and they're like they rest each other i'm pretty sure that's a blooper and they just left it in but i would say that most of the like explicitly problematic things that get said or like moments in the movie come in the form of an abba song where like the one you were talking about

where she's like all i want to do is just find a rich man to marry to take care of me and it's like oh that's not really what that's not and then i felt okay not to stand out for like i thought the nature the that number was kind of playful and dumb and yeah in in context i don't think i i wasn't like oh this is sending a bad message because she didn't really mean it sure and everything she says afterwards indicates that she didn't really mean it she's like yeah it'd be great if someone just like gave me a ton of fucking money i say that all the time though i'm always like yeah i wish that some loser would give me a billion dollars so i could do whatever the fuck i want well what i'm saying is that unlike a lot of movies we've covered, there's no like explicitly

problematic things that get said throughout the course of the movie, except for in songs that are 30 years old. Like there's another moment later on where it's when Sky is singing and he's all like, I'm possessive and every man I see is a potential threat. Oh, Lay All Your Love On Me. Yeah, that's the porno scene. That's where they fully fuck on a beach in front of all his friends.

He's basically saying like... But that's kind of like Baba Booey's problem, right? Like that's Abba's problem and not the movie's problem. Right, right, right, right. It makes no sense for his arc or their storyline at all. I think we just couldn't shoehorn in that song. So they were like, I don't know. This guy can't sing at all.

There's a lot. Oh God, when they're like, let's send Baranski and Weasley's mom acapella. We ran out of studio musicians. Listen, the guy with the xylophone's sick. They're going to have to go acapella today. Yeah, they also do have the top of Super Trooper. The outfits in Super Trooper are from Ricky and the Flash?

The crossover we did. I was very excited because when we talked about it the other day Caitlin you're like I know it's in the first it's in one of them but I don't remember

which one and I was like oh I hope it's the first one and it is the first one and it's they bring them back in the second one they do

for the credit sequence the credit sequences in both movies are worth a watch Super Trooper is great especially because the men wear them too and they kind of have

this like sheepish expression. They're like, this is kind of gay, huh, boys? But they love it anyway. They have a no-hunt. Oh, OK. Yeah. But it's barely there. And I feel like usually that's all that's there when you put straight men in full-on

jumpsuits with frilly sleeves. That is such an international movie. And I think that that is something that we don't talk a lot about on this podcast that does make a difference where it's like this movie was hugely. Let me let me look up exactly how hugely successful. But it was it was a big international movie. And I feel like with movies that are intended to do really well internationally, it is very frequently like they will only hint at progressiveness and they won't go all the way out because they're like, well, then China will not show it in theaters. You mean in terms of like having like Harry be identifiably queer in the movie? Although he does not kiss his partner at the end. They only hug.

It's very weird. Stuff like that where it's like by the end of this movie, all the hetero people are literally soaking wet and fucking. Yeah. And the one queer character gets a little hug. They're hugging. Right. And the same with, and this goes into what we were talking about yesterday with the vague 90s, 2000s, still sometimes now, you go girl, freedom and progressiveness and pro-woman pro-woman stuff but then also you still have to get married at the end and

that's I don't know I mean those are the movies that do well internationally right because I mean that's just like the Hollywood narrative you know Carol was not a hit in China I would throw in the mix to that theory that perhaps musicals just do well internationally because

it's a visual thing there's less nuance lost in translation and that's dubbing and stuff this movie cost 52 million dollars made 615 million dollars dude why don't we have eight mamma mia's i know it made a ton of money but like with harry's character there's a scene where he tries to come out to bill they're in the boat and he's trying to come out and then they it ends up they're talking about different things and then well i thought he wasn't trying to come out i thought he was trying to tell him about sophie and still in scars guards thinking he's trying to come out and then they throw in the fucking actually i am gay thing is like a bit almost. It's unclear exactly because I interpret it as him trying to come out. Maybe.

I don't know. It's it's very unclear. But in any case, at the very end, he does. He's like, oh, now I have a reason to say. And he looks to like this handsome guy who's like sitting at the wedding and then they have a hug at the end. But yeah, like a light hug. Right. So it's representation on screen

of an identifiably queer person, but it's so glossed over and we don't get to see a kiss. But because we do get to see Bill and Mrs. Bird kiss a lot, which I do enjoy that it's like old usually we don't see older people like get to be sexual on screen like I

wish we would Amor made me so horny oh my god that wild scene that with a pigeon I was fucking wet dude but the one where Baranski's like in a beach full of young people and it's like in a beach full of young people

and is like I could fuck all of you and like that's the whole song she's just kind of like wanting to fuck a whole beach full of

people in their early 20s she's saying I'm not gonna date any of you yeah we will only fuck that's great I love that and then there's that one guy

in particular who like seems to be really into her she blows him she does fuck him yeah she fucked him on the bachelorette party night and then the next morning he's like hey how about it she's like no no no i was drunk we're not talking about it right right right right is the same man that you need to

know he does but she actually ties a towel into a diaper around him instead to show that he's a baby yeah it's a big misdirection he is the same man that says now baby this ought to tickle your taste buds oh right right right that's his first introduction into the film in case you were trying to track it well so they so he's like a good two to three decades younger than oh he's i'm pretty sure like 17 years old yeah he's extremely young freshly legal yeah and again unclear how old like meryl and her friends are because apparently they're 37. The poor Amanda Seyfried is like 40. That would have to be what happened. Unclear. But yeah, so we see like Christine being romantically involved with a much younger guy.

Usually we don't see that in movies. it's Tom Cruise who's 55 and then you know a woman who's 25 or you know any combination of older actors and much younger. Meryl might even be older than Pierce. I think Meryl's 69 I don't know how old Pierce is. I want to say like 63. She's older than all three of her love interests in this movie. She's born

49. I think that respectively I don't know who's who but it's like 51, 53, 60. Colin Firth is 11 years younger than her. Wow. So fucking swish for Meryl. That's great. And then swish for Colin Firth.

I mean, everyone wins. Right, right, right. In this fuck pile, we all win. A hole's a hole. Mm-hmm. A hole's a hole's a hole. The fuck pile between Mrs. Bird, whose character's name is actually Rosie. Rosie.

And Tanya, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's Christine. Right. But Rosie is going after Bill. Aggressively. Very aggressively.

Like, if the genders were reversed, we'd be freaked out. We'd be freaked out. Right. Yeah. So she's pursuing him. And again, you don't often see a woman pursuing. Especially that she actually gets him. And she gets him. Because usually if a woman

is pursuing, it's to be like, creepy, gross hag, won't leave me alone. But it's like, actually, I like her. I'll go for it. She knows what she wants. And they kiss a lot, and they're like, bleep, bleep, bleep. She does have to chase around the entire villa first. And have a near-death experience but it

pays off so again we can't there's so much of this movie that we can't really take at face value because nothing makes sense and it's so campy and it's so silly and nothing makes sense but the things that do happen is like okay like older people like being sexual that's pretty cool an older woman and a younger guy like that's pretty cool harry i want to go back to harry and like harry headbanger of course harry headbanger like i get it they have to appeal to international markets and it's 2008 you know this is still a time where and not to say that Clay Aiken couldn't win American Idol it was a different time so it's really only like a tiny glimpse or a hint of queerness a whisper of it if you will a whisper of queerness because we spent so much time on like

Bill and Mrs. Bird Mrs. Bird like picking up Bill with her talons because she's a literal bird. Oh, it's like, leave her alone. But I don't know. And we spend a lot of time on Sam and Donna ending up together at the end, but we can't spend any time on Harry exploring his sexuality. Well, I feel like it's not dealt with horribly,

but it's like to an extent, and I'm sure, and I haven't seen the musical, but I would wager or guess that this would be even more egregious in the musical just because it's older, that him being queer is almost like a punchline just to take him out of the running, as it were, for Meryl's heart.

Right. But I don't know. I haven't seen the musical. And I don't remember how that plays out. But I want to see it. Yeah. So would we have liked to have seen more than what we're given? Sure.

Is that a question? Is that a real question? I would always like to see more queerness. Right. I will not rest until every single person, both actors and characters are queer in movies. Imagine how awesome an all queer version of Mamma Mia would be. It would be so fun.

It basically is. So why not just let it be? Yes. I want a threesome between Mrs. Weasley. Yeah. It should be like a young trans person who's like, I want to know which sperm donor. Yes. Only to see if I gonna get alzheimer's my only motive right very practical yeah yeah that should be the story and i also want to talk about how uh the reviews for this movie versus mamma mia here we go again is Mamma Mia Here We Go Again. So in 2008, on Rotten Tomatoes, it only got a 54% fresh.

Critic or audience? This was not critics. So critics did not especially like this movie. It was about half and half where they were like, nah, it's okay, and the other ones were like, boo. But Mamma Mia Here We Go Again, as of this recording, has an 80 fresh on rotten tomatoes critic critics so people have been pointing out retribution right and it's not it's not as though

mamma mia here we go again is a much better movie i would say mamma mia far worse based alone on the fact that meryl streep is not really in it yeah That was the only reason Meryl Streep is good in Mamma Mia 1 is because it's Meryl Streep. But Mamma Mia Here We Go Again does have Fernando in it making it the better movie. Yeah, but I do want to see that movie now. You have to. I do.

Now that I've really loved the first one, I'm like, Doubt 2 better be good. If you skipped Mamma Mia 2, Doubt 2 better be a you know if you skip mamma mia two doubt two better be a fucking banger so the point is people are talking about how it's not as though the sequel is any better it's just that like the cultural landscape has shifted it's that donald trump is president people need to feel happy more right than they used to and i think it's just that like critics are a little more tolerant

of like a female driven story about a woman who humps a bunch of guys. Okay, humps. That is an attack. I can't believe you just used that word in seriousness. I love humping.

I love humping. No, no. I will leave. Because like many filmmakers are straight white men. So are many movie critics. No kidding. I know.

I don't know. I just wanted to point out the disparity between the fresh and rotten ratings in this 10-year gap between the two movies coming out. And it's not as though the sequel is that much better. I think it's just that we're seeing a little bit of a shift happening in our landscape. Yeah, I agree that like the criticism landscape is shifting. And also there's more like not to toot our own fucking horn. Sorry. But there are more like there are other outlets to talk about movies now that there weren't in 2008.

That's true. Including like I mean 2008 that's like og podcast zone that's like we're first lock in the gates you know yeah well i think this movie is my favorite movie i love to listen i'm not ashamed to say it i love to feel good yeah i love a feel good movie i like to feel good i can't usually feel the way I feel after watching Mamma Mia or Mamma Mia 2 Here We Go Again without a lot of drugs. Or Baba Booey. Or Baba Booey, the movie we're currently writing. Or some pizza balls.

Is that the word that we were looking for? Whenever we have to make up our... Baba Booey? Yeah. This movie makes me feel very Baba Booey. This movie ends and I go, oh, Baba Booey. Oh, Baba Booey. They did go again.

This is maybe Meryl's best year. I mean, she's, on one hand, in the summer, she's Baba Booey. Yeah. By winter. Come winter, she's doubting up a storm. Yes. Spring's Mamma Mia. She has such doubts.

And then fall is Julia. That's the Meryl spectrum. Like, on a scale of Donna to Lady, what's her name? Sister Aloysius. Listen, I stand for Sister Aloysius. Don't

get me wrong. Make them boys go loco. Aloysius definition. Thank you for seeing me. The crownslammer windows are... So that's everything I had, I think. I have so much more. We have an hour?

We have three more hours. I would just like to add my one thing, that women are horny. Triple underline horny. I think that's the thesis of mamma mia one and mamma mia two actually i think so yeah i would i would argue that this movie is for the most part pretty sex positive there is a moment where donna slut shames herself by literally calling herself a slut and i love self-sledding does that mean masturbating

i'm a slut for me no i like i mean we're on the hate sluts what's up network right now uh so i don't know but then the fucking friends immediately are like no that sounds like your mom yeah which betrays the second one in which the mom is share and i think actually share in that universe I'm not totally sure right because it's like in this one in the first one

they say A my mom's dead B my mom was Catholic she put so much Catholic guilt on me that when she found out I was pregnant I wasn't allowed

to come home which is why I'm still in Caligari or whatever the fuck it's called right and she called me a slut when she found out

I had sex with strangers in the new one she was too much of a rock star to be around and it's also Sharon, she's not dead. I do like that the setup of Mamma Mia 1

is that Meryl Streep is literally marooned on Fuck Island for life. That's the caption underneath Mamma Mia, marooned on Fuck Island. And then underneath that, semicolon, semicolon, women get horny too. Although that was when I was like, oh,

she got pregnant as a very young woman. Her parents didn't understand. And then she began to manage a hotel. What is this, Gilmore Girls? Oh, I've never seen it. I hate women. Thank you so much for finally saying it. Now we can end the podcast.

I actually am not a fan. Get out of here. Did you have anything else you want to say phelan uh we haven't changed your mind i'm so surprised i just and i like abba it's not that i don't like abba i like most of the cast i'm here for meryl i'm here it was weird to me to see Stellan Skarsgård as like a romantic interest because he's played a villain in so many movies where I'm just like oh yeah you saw a girl with a dragon tattoo too recently yeah yeah but uh you know I'm here for I think the cast is largely made up of very talented people love Christine Baranski love Mrs. Bird and Paddington and Paddington 2 of course but I mean it's just I'm not a big musical person so I just am not and really it boils down to the story

making no sense they reverse engineered the story yeah based on ABBA songs and it you can tell the whole thing feels like a fever dream it really. I think it does work better as a staged production. As a movie, don't think it works as well. But yeah, I don't know. I do think it does have some things going for it. It's largely about female friendship. It's largely about a strong bond between mother and daughter. It mostly promotes sex positivity.

It is about generally men embracing their roles as fathers. And even though they don't know even which one of them it is, they're all like, yeah, I'll be one third of your daddy. I'll take the stomach. So yeah, I think it promotes some positive messages. It's on the right track. I'd say generally it's on the right track. It's on the right track. I'd say generally it's on the right track. And unfortunately, a blockbuster movie in 2008 being on the right track is better than most movies. True. Does it improve upon any of that and take it even further

and more progressive in the sequel? No, I would not say that. But see it for yourselves, everybody. Can you believe that Doubt only made $50 million at the box office? I mean, it did over double its budget. I was going to say, I'm surprised it made that much. It's mostly me. That is at least $10 million is me and my mom going to see Doubt all the time, like fucking psychos, really working through some shit that winter. Yeah, I don't know.

Well, let's see if it passes the Bechdel test, shall we? That's a really weak drum roll. Sorry. I was like, can you hear the drum roll, Fernando? Ooh, there it is. It's not in this movie. Oh, it should be. It's the best.

Okay, so yeah, I would say the song where Sophie and her friends Allie and Lisa are talking about being the greatest, bestest mates because they all name themselves. And they're never seen again. But they don't talk about men. So I would say that passes the Bechdel test. There's a few different combos of it passing. It passes between Donna and Sophie. It passes between Donna and Rosie and Tanya.

And I think a couple other combos here. Now, largely the conversations are about men. It's like, okay, who's my daddy? Or who's my daughter's daddy? Or who's anybody's daddy? The first couple I caught were between two and four line exchanges. It's not like we're having long conversations that aren't about, because this is sort of a male-rooted story,

even when there are good things going on. But it does pass in terms of it being, I mean, it should be said it is an extremely Caucasian movie. In Greece. Again, I'm so confused it is it's very shitty and typical for for that to be the case the diversity is um two brunettes literally yeah it's like oh someone not have flesh color hair the young guy who christine baranski's character sleeps with yes where it's with is the only person of color who has

lines. Yeah, I think that that is true. Again, if I need to get my notes back out, let me just remind you what his line is. Now baby, this ought to tickle your taste buds. He does have a line. So at least it's a hell of a line. But yeah, it's a

super white movie which sucks. It does pass the Bechdel test. Yes. It has that. Surprisingly, not as much as you think it would, considering it's all female leads. Yeah, mostly. But no, they are all talking about either Sam or Bill or Harry.

Or Skye. Or Skye. I will chalk that up less to the movie being too male-oriented and more to the movie having literally zero scenes that aren't exactly forwarding the plot. There's no room to breathe in this entire script. No, because they're like,

we need to have 500 songs. The volume of songs is unnecessary. So much. I feel like I would love to crunch some numbers and see like, I feel like this had

twice the number of songs. Like twice the number of songs you would normally, like Phantom of the Opera, Mamma Mia, Pound for Pound, there's 900 songs in this movie. And they're all strung together by no more than two lines of dialogue. Meryl Streep's like, well, that song was great. And Christine Baranski's like, yeah, but you know what would be even better? The next song!

And they're all humping. Ew, h next song! And they're all humping. Ew! Humping again! I feel like really oppressed by you being anti-hump. I can't handle that word. I'm so sorry. Hump culture is alive and well. Jamie, you're a hacker.

I'm personally a humper. I hacked the dry hump. So you hate marriage. I hate the word humping. Give me a bone dry hump let's rate the movie on our nipple scale shall we we rate it based on its portrayal and representation of women

0 to 5 nipples I'm gonna hmm I'm like between a 2 and a 2 and a half on this one I think because even though the movie does have a lot of things going for it in terms of it's like celebration of female friendship and mother-daughter relationships and sex positivity things like that it is the story deeply rooted in a woman desperately needing a man to make her feel more complete yeah it is rooted in every female character that we spend any significant amount

of screen time with ending up with a man there is a glimpse of queerness in this movie but it's so i would say glossed over that it may as well not even be there like it i mean i i wish it was explored much more as far as like character development goes, like for the movie being about Sophie, she's the protagonist. She's got the main desire and it's her goal that is pushing the story forward. We don't really get to know that much about her and like her character development is all wonky because again the story makes no sense and her reactions often make no sense because they have to fit in with whatever abba song they decided was next so i feel like i would say i mean my counterpoint there would be that no characters are super well developed to the point where the male characters are not developed at all we know like one thing

about them and it's that they had sex with meryl Streep 20 years ago and they can't get over it. True. So I think that that's more that it's not a well written story than anything else. But yeah. Yeah. So I yeah two and a half nipples for me. Give them two. I'll give one to Donna.

I'll give one to Christine Baranski, and I'll give one half nipple to Mrs. Bird specifically in Paddington 2. Ooh, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna be generous here, and I'm gonna give it a 3. Obviously, there's virtually no diversity in this movie whatsoever, but it is nice to see a story that for its flaws is very empowering towards not just female sexuality, but older women. Like it's okay for older women to be single, to have sex. It's like just not themes you see very often in movies. I think it's really smart because who is the prime audience for this movie is like older women.

And so having a movie that uplifts them them I feel like almost every time that's done those types of movies tend to do really well when they're like servicing their audience so yeah and then and I I agree with everything you're saying this movie's it's so and it's just so fun and Meryl's so good and Christine Baranski that's three nipples right there she has two but there that we know of I'm giving all three of my nipples to Christine Baranski because I feel like she has an extra, like a spare tire. How many nips would you give it? I would say I would give it a full four

if there was a single non-white woman that got more than one line. But I feel like you can't talk about women and not include non- white women at all. Yeah. So I would say maybe three. Only because every woman except fucking Amanda Seyfried, who we've already said is insufferable in this movie, has also a very established career. Yeah.

Like Christine's got a shit ton of money. Fucking Mrs. Bird's an accomplished cookbook author. People recognize her. Meryl Streep owns her own hotel and works a power drill. Yeah. Yeah, we get to see her like- With a fucking tool belt. And like, yeah, with a drill.

It's great. Yeah. And then, yeah, it's just every woman in this like has a job that she's good at. Yeah. And that's, I don't get to see that very much. And they're not depicted as like workhorse bitter old hags true still get drunk and fuck yeah and they have fun and it seems like meryl streep genuinely enjoys being marooned on fuck island and she likes it yeah she loves it i

okay this is the last thing where she is clearly good at her job but she also seems to care very little that her hotel is fucking busted oh no she smells like she got money from somewhere that's not the hotel for sure that moment where like the foundation her hotel cracks in half she is like wild and then they just keep singing she literally cheers all right because it's the spring of aphrodite right and also like you now need to fly in a structural engineer to re-engineer your whole fucking house your foundation's cracked you're so fucked yeah it's like that is i think the beginning of the end for this no it's like a multi-million dollar mistake and she's like well it's greece and so let's say the name of a god

i'm gonna give all three nipples to um pierce brosnan because i just feel really bad for him he really did give it his all in this movie and it was a miss it was not good and it's obviously not good and i feel really bad about that he tried something new something i i do it is very fun to watch an actor really swing for the fences and miss see Ashton Kutcher in jobs yeah hot like you can tell you like this is the role of a lifetime and it's like you are screaming buddy calm down uh well Miel thank you so much for being here oh yeah I love talking about Mama Miel she would have been doing this anyways in the street i'll just text jamie uh where can people follow you online do you have anything you'd like to plug

yeah you can follow me at meow or meal monster on anything and um i have a podcast called punch of the jam that's great yeah we every week pick apart a different song and then remake it nice with friend of the cast demi demi yeah demi di duebe Yeah, Demi DiGiube and I. And it's good. I'm going to say it. It's fucking good. God damn it. It's a good fucking podcast. Actually, my mom gave me, when she figured out what a podcast was last week,

she's like, you can sign me up for five. And she was like, I can't handle more than five. So I gave her a few. But I gave her Punch Up the Jam. And she is loving it I love my new fan she's loving his mom to be fair she's only listened to the episode that I'm on but she's she's like favorite episodes it was so fun and she was like they're fun I like them and then she google imaged you both oh my god thank you because my voice sounds so annoying she's like

what does she look like she's like I just wanted to picture what the room was like. I love her. Shout out, Jill. Aw, yay. Well, you can follow the Bechtelcast on social media at Bechtelcast. And you can sign up for our Patreon. It's $5 a month. And you get two bonus episodes, like, for instance, Doubt. Yes.

Oh, Doubt August. It's my birthday month, and we're doing doubt and hackers leo season baby yeah fully upon us roar raw and you can go to our website bechtelcast.com if you go to the store there you can buy all of our merch we've got t-shirts we've got mugs we've got notebooks queer icon feminist icon cartoons of us oh feminist icon alfred molina which reminds me alfred molina could have played any of the dads better than any of the dads give me a deep roy in charlie and the chocolate factory oompa loompa style three albert alfred molina's oh my god i just had a panic attack anyways that's the show why weren't there

any cats in this movie yeah what's with the lack of cats I know but anyway well thanks for listening everybody

here we go again Fernando we're all dancing queens and we're super troopers yes dancing queens and we're other stuff okay bye bye bye Daphne Caruana Galizia Super Troopers and other stuff.

Okay, bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

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