The Bechdel Cast - Miss Juneteenth with Angelica Jade Bastién

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

Miss Bechdel Cast winners Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Angelica Jade Bastién examine Miss Juneteenth. Check out Angelica's piece - https://www.vulture.com/article/miss-juneteenth-is-a-gently-beautiful-film-worth-celebrating.html (This episode contains spoilers) For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Las Culturistas. That's right, the queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture.

Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.

And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Mori Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Bechtelcast, the questions asked

if movies have women in them. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy's effing vast start changing it with the bechdel cast hey jamie hey caitlin do you remember when we did pageantry on the patreon aka matreon yes that's one of our themes one of our one of our worst themed names of all time, I would say. I don't think I ever said it correctly.

It's a mouthful. Well, we made the word up, so. I say it like I say Ewan McGregor. So like, presentuary. Sure, sure, sure. I think it was a good theme, but poorly named. And it just got me thinking that we've done several pageant movies on the show, including today's episode, which we'll get to in a moment.

It's true. But a lot of pageant narratives. I thought that was all leading up to like some really elaborate pun. No. I've also, okay. I've also noticed we've covered a lot of pageant movies. We've done Drop Dead Gorgeous. We've done Miss Congeniality.

We've done, oh, what was the one? What's the other one we did during pageantry dumpling dumpling and little miss sunshine oh my god yeah wow there's a lot of pageant movies a lot of which i love including oh transition wow the movie we're talking about today we're talking about miss juneteenth today on the bechdel cast but first who are we and what is the Bechdel cast? Well, Caitlin, why don't you tell us? Well, first of all, I'm Caitlin Durante. I'm Jamie Loftus. This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens

using the Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. And that, of course, is a media metric sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test. It first appeared in Alison Bechdel's comic, Dykes to Watch Out For, as a bit. It was a joke. It was a goof. And it now exists as a commonly cited media metric. There are many versions of it. Ours is this. Two characters of a marginalized gender have to have names. They have to speak to each other. And that conversation has to be about something other than a man. And we especially like it when it's a a nice and meaty conversation a good beefy convo a big beefy burger of a conversation no waiters with a name tag saying would you like fries with that yes doesn't count we've grown past it also the show's about a lot more than that as we're about to get into i I still love all these

years later when people are lying to our faces about listening to the show, which is fine. You don't have to listen to a show, but they're like, oh yeah, that's the show where you go through every line of dialogue in a movie and try to figure out if it passes. I was like, who would listen to that? Look, we named the show seven years ago, and we have to live with it. And here we are, life goes on. And today, we have an incredible episode. I feel like this really, this brings our pageant movies we've covered over the years. I don't know if there's others. Are we missing any at this point? Have we done every pageant movie? I think there are others that are maybe a bit more like off the beaten path. But as far as like quite mainstream ones, because there's a there's one called I think

it's called Beautiful that oh my gosh, what is her name? She is in Good Will Hunting. She's British. Minnie Driver? Yes, Minnie Driver. All right. We have to start the show. We can't get into Minnie Driver discourse at this time. No.

But there's that movie about a pageant and then there's got to be others. Anyway. Let's get our guest in here. Yes, yes. She is a TV and film critic for New York Magazine's site Vulture. She lives in chicago with her boyfriend and four cats which means 32 nipples because cats have eight nipples well i'm a genius and i loved your reaction to 32 nipples um and uh one of the best compliments she's ever received is from a close friend who called her deliciously vulgar. Incredible. It's Angelica Jade Bastian. Hello.

Hey, I'm so happy to be here. We're so excited to have you. And talk a great movie. It's going to be fun. Yeah. We cite your work quite frequently on the show, so it's an honor to actually have you here in the flesh. Oh, an honor. That is, that's kind of loft lofty I will try to live up

to how I come across on the page well you are deliciously vulgar yeah wow yeah I do curse a lot more in person than I do on the page for obvious reasons um but I'm just like more vulgar in general in person. So when my good friend who is a contributing writer at the New Yorker and a teacher in the English department at Northwestern, Lauren Michelle Jackson told me that on a friend trip in Sagatuck, Michigan over a board game, I was so touched. I was like, that is such an amazing compliment.

And I was like, oh, I got to use this in my bio. I need motherfuckers to know. I'm deliciously vulgar. I can't wait to hear more. And they are indeed motherfuckers. It's part of the deliciously vulgar experience. Exactly. You get it. We're so stoked to have you here.

Truly. Tell us your relationship with Miss Juneteenth. Well, I ended up, you know, seeing the trailer and hearing about it. And I asked to review it at work when it came out in 2020. And I ended up really loving the movie. I loving its cultural specificity and really having a great time talking to Nicole Beharie for an interview about the film for Vulture as well but I hadn't seen it since I reviewed it which isn't out of the norm a lot of times I'll review something and then just

kind of move on because there's so much I want to watch so much I want to see and experience so it was really nice revisiting the film for this podcast you know a few years later and I was like yeah this is still a really great touching moving film that's a simple story well told is how I'd put it yeah yeah and you're of course referring to the piece you wrote uh for vulture entitled Miss Juneteenth is a gently beautiful film worth celebrating which is a really wonderful piece uh we recommend our listeners check it out nice as a companion piece to this episode wow companion piece a deliciously vulgar actually i wouldn't say that that one is vulgar it's it's a gentle lovely piece it's very gently lovely piece but if you want something on

the more vulgar side please i did write about dead ringers through the lens of rachel vice's performance oh and i used the word cunt twice in my lead. Hell yeah. Wow. Truly, I haven't read that yet. That's exciting. I hope you have a fun time with it. I had a really fun time writing it. Nice. I revisit your Cruella essay often.

I'm trying to think of like my anyways. Big fan. No, that's funny you mentioned Cruella. My boyfriend and I were talking about it the other day. And I was like, man, the headline for that was like really good. It was Cruella is the girl bossification of the mad woman. Yeah. Because that whole movie is just a joke to me.

It's also like, why are we doing a backstory on a villain who wanted to kill puppies? How are you? What are we doing? Puppies killed her parents. It was. Is that the backstory? yes it's so true oh yes two dogs push her mom over like oh at least that's what you she thinks and what you as an audience think till a reveal later on yeah that like she's an unreliable engineered

wow oh god yeah that shows She's complicated, ladies. I was like, I didn't need more than Glenn Close, Cruella, that we should have just stopped the train. Let's stop. How about that? Let's stop doing the same thing again and again. Let's have more films like Miss Juneteenth that are original and at a quiet tenor that's always really nice like more quiet sweet welcoming movies that are like a warm bath you know that's what I want absolutely

um Jamie what's your history relationship with Miss Juneteenth I had seen the movie once before I remember hearing about it when it came out, possibly from your work, Angelica, and being like, I'm going to see that in theaters. But it was 2020. So I did not indeed see it in theaters. I do think that this movie had a long tenure on Netflix, I want to say. I watched it on streaming in 2020 when it was released and thought it was really lovely again it felt we were talking about this a little bit off mic but just I remember the first time I watched it because of sort of what we're conditioned to think about pageant movies that it's going to be the coming of age story for the person competing in the pageant and not their parent and I was I remember being like pleasantly taken off guard by Turquoise being the protagonist of this movie and I just I really enjoyed it and I didn't really have my analysis goggles on I just liked it and it was really fun to to go back

and um to experience it again it's such a good like I don't know this movie just feels so effortless in everything it's doing. And I feel like that's really, really, really hard to do in a coming of age movie. Even in ones I like, you get these like really overwritten speeches about like, and now I have come of age. Which can also be great. But it's just like this movie. Yeah, it just feels so lovely and effortless. And I'm excited to talk about it. Caitlin, what was your history of this

movie? I didn't see it until beginning to prep for this episode. So my history with it is very short, but I really like the movie. I tend not to seek out more like character driven stories because i like big bombastic romps you know me no splosions no dalmatians killing parents what's the point exactly um so character study type movies are they can be a little hit or miss for me but this one's really tender and moving and I really liked it and all of the performances are really wonderful and yeah it's just a very lovely movie I feel like because I mean so much of the of 2020 is like a confusing blur to me I was surprised in re-watching Nicole Bahari's performance that she wasn't nominated for more like I saw she got like a lot like she

got nominated for an independent spirit award she got nominated for I think uh or she won a Gotham award but I was like I feel like it shouldn't have stopped there it's such a beautiful performance like I just really um and then reading about her process and like researching and going down to Texas and and just like meeting people I just was really I really fell in love with her in reading about like her process and actually like re-watching her performance a couple times yeah it's a shame she wasn't nominated for more but I think the reason why she wasn't is because it's a great performance whose greatness isn't legible to what award bodies expect from a great performance. For sure.

Right. comes to award bodies, especially when you're getting to like the Oscars and stuff like that, is often work that makes the quote unquote labor of acting very visible for audiences. So they can see the effort, they can see the choices made. And a lot of times I'm not really a big fan of those kind of performances. Like I think like Cate Blanchett and Tar is a interesting example of that where it's a culmination of a lot of work she's done and it's very it's an effortful performance in a lot of ways which can be really fascinating I am partially fascinated by that movie and performance partially frustrated by it but I think she's an interesting example for what it takes for female actors to gain credibility in award bodies. Also, they expect a certain kind of performance from black women to gain traction with awards.

Right. Pain and tears and like yelling speeches while tears are flowing down the face kind of thing, I think, is what tends to garner attention for like Oscar nominations, especially when it comes to performances from black women. Yeah. Has the Oscars ever nominated a black female performer for a performance that is not rooted in pain oh not that i can remember i don't think so no i mean because even if you're thinking about angela bassett's nomination this last year like that performance i mean it was an incredible performance but so rooted in grief and pain and yeah yeah i mean i've legit never thought about it like that. But now I'm like, hmm, that's a little interesting. Hmm, suspect. Let's keep our eye on that. Almost like something is not quite right with that academy.

I wonder what the problem is. But I think that, I mean, part of what makes Nicole Beharie's performance so amazing, you say in your piece, Angelica, of like, it's a performance that is just so rooted in like existence. And like, she's so at home in this character. And it's so effortless versus, yeah, the effortful. Like, I feel like when I think of Academy Award effort, I think of like DiCaprio in The Bear. And you're like oh my god the revenue

how bad do you want that damn trophy like oh he is like i will take it all off i will literally have sex with someone for this trophy let me do anything everything you can have all of me for an oscar which is fine you know that's what you want to do to each their own but i always find it really interesting the neediness of certain actors with the oscars like it's kind of fascinating watching like sometimes it's expected you expect leonardo dicaprio to like go like extreme like put his body through stuff put his mind through stuff like be an effortful performer like i said but then sometimes you're like looking at like the campaign trail and you're like for example i was kind of surprised by how much Colin Farrell was campaigning.

Like, I don't think he was being, like, so needy that is on a DiCaprio level. But he's an actor whose career is interesting because there was a moment, a long moment, where he was really trying to be a mainstream, almost action-y but not quite action-y. Like, you know, didn't they have that total recall remake am i like yeah yeah right would you include his phone booth movie to be in that like action yeah yeah i was actually thinking of that that movie but to see him after like all this time where it's like oh he's like focusing on character work he's just in it for the work and the love of the work to see him like really out there campaigning. I was like, man, y'all are,

everybody is thirsty. People need validation. Yeah. I mean, I was like, I can relate with that. Yeah, when you say like that, it is like them getting recognized by a body of their peers.

And like when you think of it like that, yeah, of course they want to be like, they're fucking actors like that. Isn't that part of the thing but you do think i feel like colin farrell's like curated i thought i think pretty effect like the the cool guy persona so much that you're like oh he doesn't care about trophies right they're like wow he does care he does really care and it's like i mean okay you had he had a really good year last year good for colin farrell he did yeah good for him it's true anyway sorry yeah no no i was like i'm already this is gonna be a great episode um but yeah i put like that i mean i guess it does make some

unfair sense that nicole bahari wasn't more recognized by larger bodies of work. But it's just like, I don't know. Now that I've seen this movie twice in the last week, I just am like so blown away by her. I want to see her in more stuff. Yeah. for a while after requesting accommodations for an autoimmune disease that she developed during the production of sleepy hollow which is a show i did watch a substantial amount of but really after learning about that and i was like oh my god like two things yeah like horrifying that she developed an illness during production needed accommodations for that

illness and then mr hollywood was like no sorry we're ableist like yeah i didn't know that wow yeah yeah because she came out talking about that like after the show was done and if you watch the show i thought the first season was really fun and And I'm like, oh, they're going to build on a relationship, this interracial, cross-time, weird relationship between these two characters. And then they don't. And then her character is like, they really stopped giving a fuck about her character in that show. And I was just, that was at a moment in Hollywood history,

like right before our conversations about diversity started to like be reawakened and we're seeing like the studios put more effort into that. Although I think it's Craven. It's never altruistic with these studios. These are companies, you know? So it's like really interesting to kind of like look at how her career was affected by that, because I still don't think it's like bounce back despite, you know, a great performance in Miss Juneteenth. And it's a shame because I think in a lot of ways, audiences, critics, people in the industry, then the industry has really gone dramatically forward in terms of diversity.

Like it's been a noticeable difference. And I'm like, look at the, like, you know, I'm going to speak from a black perspective, but like, look, for example, at the black actors who were kind of slipping through the crack despite being super talented, despite sometimes having like one high profile thing, you would think, oh, like, the industry's doing better. Of course, this great performer is going to have

like other opportunities. And that's like not happening I especially see that with like elder blacks actors I'm like why aren't we seeing like I kind of thought about it with Keith David and Nope and I was like I'm glad he showed up in it but like he his character is important for dying not for doing anything and i'm like i would like to see these older actors get actual work that really lives up to their talents and offers them the kind of work that they've wanted for so long and they've demonstrated they're talented but they haven't gotten the consistent work yeah and i think that's what's really frustrating. We're still seeing there's only a few like directors and actors of color, of marginalized genders, of different presentations,

and like sexualities and all that stuff. Like, they're not getting the consistent work. It's a very small group of people who are getting the consistent work and because like Hollywood history is so jagged with progress for people of color you know it seems like there's more happening than there actually is and it's easy to forget like an actress like Nicole Beharie despite being incredibly talented and obviously she has an autoimmune disorder so So that can affect, you know, what kind of work she's willing to take on and like what she wants to do. But she's still like, she can still do like fun character work like this. And we're just not seeing it.

Yeah. And I, I speaking to that point, it does feel like, especially with award systems and just larger institutions. And I think areas of the media as well, like there's a tendency to celebrate a moment, but not sustain it or like celebrate a performance

and be like, this person is back. And then they're gone again because there is not the consistent. And I feel like that goes to obviously who's behind the camera as well. I'm wondering if either of you know, I wasn't able to find anything of the writer director of this movie, Channing Godfrey peoples.

They have, they've released a short film the year after this, but I don't know that there's been, I haven't heard anything from this amazing director. And you're like, it's been three years. Why are we giving her stuff? Like it's yeah.

Yeah. It's a damn shame. It is a damn shame but let's talk about the movie yes let's let us take a quick break and then we will come back for the recap hey everybody this is matt rogers and bowen. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Catherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East. That's right.

The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh my God, I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to.

No, I know, I'm so behind. Katherine Hahn can sing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad.

I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Luge. Not hawk the slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum.

Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden.

We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do,

like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career

without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia.

I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Okay, so here is the synopsis for Miss Juneteenth. The story takes place in Fort Worth, Texas. We meet Turquoise Jones, played by Nicole Beharie. She is a former winner of her community's Miss Juneteenth pageant. We meet her while she's like taking a trip down memory lane. She's looking at her dress and her tiara. But that was 15 years ago.

Turquoise is now a single mother. She works at a bar. We meet her colleagues at the bar, Betty Ray and the owner, this guy named Wayman, she stops by an auto body shop to get her truck fixed by Ronnie, played by Kendrick Sampson. I love Kendrick Sampson. He's very good. Yeah, in everything. He's got such range. And he's so good in this movie.

Anyways. All right. That's all I have to say so turquoise is in this like on again off again relationship with ronnie who is also the father of her teenage daughter kai turquoise takes kai played by alexis chiquis i'm not sure exactly how to pronounce her last name, takes her to register for this year's Miss Juneteenth pageant. We also learn about Juneteenth, which is, of course, the holiday that celebrates the date that slaves in Texas learned they were free on June 19th, 1865, which was two and a half years after the Emancipation Proclamation.

The winner of Miss Juneteenth receives a scholarship to any historically Black college of her choosing. And for this reason, Turquoise is like really pushing for Kai to participate in the pageant. And she really wants this victory for her to have access to this scholarship. But you can tell that Kai is not really interested in competing in the pageant. She's just doing it to appease her mom and Kai would rather join the dance team. That's something that really stuck out to me about this movie right away where I feel like the other pageant movies we've covered like they make it a joke I know in Miss Congeniality it's a consistent joke throughout

the movie that like it's a scholarship program when it's like no actually we are here to be competitive and to be pretty and blah blah blah blah blah and I I like that this movie is like no it is for the scholarship. That's why, like, I mean, it's for a lot of reasons, but that is a big component of it. I feel like that's usually kind of pushed by the wayside or made to seem disingenuous in a way that kind of, yeah, that I think is sort of meant to illustrate people who participate in pageants as frivolous and unimportant. So I liked that this movie hit that really clearly. Definitely. And then so Kai participating in the pageant means that she needs to keep her grades up and represent herself well in the community. And it also means a lot of costs. There's like buying the gown, there's registration fees, there's all these expenses. But Turquoise doesn't means a lot of costs there's like buying the gown there's registration fees there's all

these expenses but turquoise doesn't make a lot of money at the bar nor at her second job at a funeral home we also meet the owner of the funeral home he's this guy named bacon played by Akron Watson, who is openly in love with Turquoise. Talks about it all the time. Has been for a very long time. But she is not interested in him at this time. Kai gets accepted into the pageant, which Turquoise is more excited about than Kai is. Turquoise wants her to perform Maya Angelou's poem Phenomenal

Woman as her talent because that's what Turquoise did when she was competing in the pageant. However, Kai wants to dance for her talent, but Turquoise isn't having it. Meanwhile, the pageant expenses are starting to pile up. Also, Turquoise's electricity bill is overdue, so she picks up extra shifts at work and tries to get her mother, Charlotte and kai meanwhile ronnie gets arrested for i think shooting an alligator that attacked him while he was fishing yep yes i was like is that what happened and that was at that point in the movie i'm like i don't know a lot about Texas. I know. I was like, gators I associate with Florida, but it just goes to show how little I know about U.S. geography. Yeah. So anyway, so he gets arrested, and now Turquoise has to bail him out, which is another expense.

Turquoise and Kai celebrate Kai's 15th birthday together, though they have to do so in the dark because the power has been shut off. Then we see Kai continuing to prep for the pageant. Turquoise continues to work a bunch at the bar, although one of her shifts gets cut short when she discovers her mother, Charlotte, is blackout drunk at the bar and Turquoise has to take her home and care for her. Meanwhile, Kai is hanging out with her boyfriend. I don't know if we even ever learn his name. I don't think we do. But some boy from school and then Turquoise comes home and catches her and reprimands her for sneaking around and having boys over and kai is like i'm not a kid anymore classic mother daughter classic mother classic thing a

teenager will say yeah it's like yeah no in my mind you're gonna be a kid for a while it's okay it's okay to be a kid yeah it's it's so fun to watch like i just think of like movies i watched when i was a teenager being like yeah she's right and then like watching it when i'm 30 and being like no she's no yeah yeah she should be home by 11 yeah that's the latest i can't oh lord pray for my kids and whatever strictness i will be moving with oops i know i feel i'm like full team mom oh yeah as long as like because turk is an amazing mom so i'm full like i'm like yeah kai you do have to come home by 11 sorry yeah like you're 15 like come on now come on what are you even doing you can't even drink you can't even like what are you doing out there i don't know hanging out dancing learning dance moves yeah yeah and her boyfriend does seem very sweet uh he's supportive he's he's writing mixes for her

dance choreography it's all very teenager yeah yeah babe i made you this tape. Anyway, so Turquoise keeps working very hard to pay for all of these expenses. She has a conversation with her boss Wayman about taking pride in being able to run your own thing that no one can take away from you, even if it is something like a hole in the wall dive bar. Meanwhile, Bacon, the funeral home guy, tells Turquoise that he can provide for her and her daughter. And he's like really trying to convince her to be with him. And she's like, pass. Then there's a scene where Turquoise's mom tries to save her and Kai. It's very uncomfortable. like throwing holy water they're like the part of the congregation is like in a circle around turquoise and kai and like praying over it's so uncomfortable and it's like oh wow this mother sucks yeah especially i thought it

was so brilliant the way that we learn about turquoise's mom over the course of the movie. Where we're like, it almost seems like she's presented kind of as like a stock character of like very religious parent. But then you learn that she's struggling with addiction and that it's clearly affected the direction of Turquoise's life. And then we go back to the religious stuff and then you're like, no, like Charlotte. It's really interesting. Yeah, i'm excited to talk about it yeah because that like it's so that scene is so claustrophobic um yeah yeah and all this to say that things are kind of falling apart for turquoise and kai can see how difficult her mother has it. Also, the dress rehearsal for the pageant is coming up, and Ronnie owes Turquoise money, which she needs to pay for the dress,

but he kind of disappears. So Kai has to do the dress rehearsal in her regular clothes, and it's humiliating for them then wayman the owner of the bar has a heart attack and is hospitalized bacon asks turquoise to go to a fundraiser party to help with his medical bills and they go and they have a nice time but ronnie finds out that she went with bacon and he gets jealous and aggressive and then he storms off and Bacon is like all right do you want to be with me or not and Turquoise is like I thought I already made this clear but uh no I just want something for

myself another great moment because I feel like a movie that came out 20 years ago that scene probably would have gone differently. Yeah. Yeah. She probably would have been like, yeah, let's smooch bacon. You've worn me down after all these years. Right. Isn't it romantic?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But no, she's like, I don't really know what I want right now, but it's not you and I need to figure out what I want for myself. Yeah. don't really know what I want right now, but it's not you and I need to figure out what I want for myself. Then it's the day of the Miss Juneteenth pageant. Kai wears her mother's dress with some alterations because they couldn't end up affording the $800 dress that Turquoise was trying to buy. Kai does perform the poem, but she does it to dance choreography that she's been practicing to music that her boyfriend mixed for her and turquoise isn't sure about this at first but the performance goes well and then she's really proud of her daughter the runners up and the winner are announced and Kai in a, another like interesting movie subversion,

Kai does not win anything and she's upset because she thinks she disappointed her mother. Turquoise is upset on Kai's behalf for not getting the opportunities that come with winning like the scholarship. Then Turquoise apologizes to kai saying oh you know i've been trying to make you miss juneteenth but you're miss kai marie jones and i'm like we're crying we're crying great and then the story wraps up with turquoise putting a small down payment to buy wayman's bar because he can't afford to keep running it with his medical bills.

And this gives her a chance to have something of her own, something that she can run. So it's a win win for both of them. And then the movie ends with Turquoise and Kai having a nice moment. And then Turquoise is like, like hey when are those dance team tryouts and we're like yay she's learning the end so let's take another quick break and we'll come back to discuss hey everybody this is matt rogers and bowen yang we've got some exciting news for you I feel something of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course,

the culture. I feel some Sandra Bernhardt in you. Oh, my God. I would love it. I have to watch Lost. Oh, you have to. No, I know. I'm so behind.

Katherine Hanken's thing. Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I'm really good at karaoke. What's your song? Yeah, what's your song? Oh, I love a ballad. I felt Bjork's music. I just was like, who is this person? I got to hawk this slalom, Luge.

I'm not going to hawk this slalom. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok. I absolutely love it. It was somehow Shakespearean when you said it. It was somehow gorgeous. Yee, my slok, you hollum. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente. And I'm Jimei Jackson-Gadsden.

We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like, how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed? Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job? Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do, like resume specialist Morgan Saner. The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job

and the person who gets the job is usually who applies. Yeah, I think a lot about that quote. What is it, like you miss 100% of the shots you never take? Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself. Together, we'll share what it really takes to thrive in the early years of your career without sacrificing your sanity or sleep. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was murdered there are crooks everywhere you look now the situation is desperate my name is Manuel Delia I am one of the hosts of crooks everywhere a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. And we're back. Where do we want to start?

Angelica, is there anything that jumps out to you right away? Yeah. One thing I wanted to call out, and I mentioned a little earlier, was just the cultural specificity of Miss Juneteenth. I think it's very easy for mainstream media, film and television in particular, to kind of act like Black people are a monolith and there aren't like some dramatic cultural differences, even amongst people in the South. And I think a lot about Juneteenth because that is specifically a Black Texan thing. That is

not, that wasn't like a popular talking point amongst like all black people. It was very specific to black Texans, not just black Southerners, but black Texans. And I just love the work the film puts in to really show the specificity, the importance, the care that these black folks put into Juneteenth celebrations and what it means to them and while I am very happy to have Juneteenth off because white people figured out it was a thing um I do think it's

really interesting how it's become like sort of flattened into oh yeah this is like for all black people and I'm like we can't forget like the specific cultural forces at play that led to juneteenth existing as a celebration and juneteenth becoming a holiday i don't know i'm i have a lot of feelings about how the south is portrayed and discussed in film and television yeah as a southern gal um I'm from born and primarily raised in Miami but my family and my maternal family is from rural Louisiana and also I have a lot of family in Texas as well but Louisiana is kind of like my second home specifically this very small town that if I were to say the name and you knew it it would be weird to me because it's like very very very small but i think what's interesting right now

and like re-watching miss juneteenth i was thinking about a lot of the conversations happening about another southern state florida and everything going on with this anti-gay anti-trans bills and I was thinking about the ways that people kind of discount how many black people are in the south and it's just like oh yeah we should just saw off that part of the country and and like move on from it and I'm just like so we're just gonna leave black queer people to just kind of what languish like what right and it really breaks my heart because there's a lot of cultural beauty to these places and a lot of black joy in these places that is being discounted because of terrible racist homophobic monsters and i just i don't know i just want people to you know watch movies like miss juneteenth and see the beauty and cultural grooves of the south and understand that the south

is worth fighting for in my mind but i have family in the south so i'm looking at it differently than i think some people do um but yeah mr and t kind of brought up a lot of ideas about just the south where it's at right now who lives there who deserves our care and sort of the people who slip through the cracks because a woman like turquoise is not really the lead you get in a lot of films like she's working class she's struggling she's a single mom and the film really recognizes her humanity and i think it's our responsibility to recognize the humanity of people struggling in the south in general definitely absolutely and like you point out in your piece and i think we've kind of touched on this already but this the story is quite small scale you You know, it's about this, like, pretty specific microcosm of

this pageant. And it's happening over the course of it seems like only maybe a couple months at most. But it's like, it's such a beautiful story that taps into so much of what Turquoise's life is like and what she's dealing with. And, you know, she's a single mom, she's poor, she's dealing with the attention of a few different men. None of them seem like great romantic options for her. She had to kind of relinquish the opportunity that she did get by winning Miss Juneteenth, you know, a decade and a half prior. I don't think it's ever said outright in the movie. And maybe this is just my headcanon. But it seemed like she wasn't able to, quote unquote, cash in on, like the scholarship or the, you know, the opportunities that she received by winning because she got pregnant with Kai. And so she wasn't able to either go to or finish her schooling.

You know, she had to raise her daughter. And it felt like she implied, and again, maybe I'm misreading, but like she implied that her relationship with her mom also made it all the more difficult to kind of cash in on that and like caring a lot for her mom while she was struggling with addiction. Definitely. Right. So there's, you know, all these variables that kind of prevented her from reaching a certain potential. And now she's so focused on making sure the same thing doesn't happen for her daughter. But it manifests as this like really wonderful, relatable story where like, she knows what she wants for her daughter, but she has to learn to accept what her daughter

actually wants for herself. And she has to figure out what she wants for herself. So she's like kind of projecting all this stuff on to Kai, kind of ignoring what Kai clearly wants for Kai, and also sort of ignoring what Turquoise wants or like what she should maybe pursue. And it's just like this story of self-discovery and like letting go to some extent, but also like doing your best. Yeah, definitely. I think one thing I was thinking about is the way this country works,

the way this world works, if you're struggling in poverty, you do not have the time the chance and the opportunity to really dream let alone realize those dreams which is what makes the ending of Miss Juneteenth so beautiful and while Turquoise is definitely struggling I think there are these really beautiful moments of communion amongst black people these really moving moments of joy and just connection and i would describe miss juneteenth as like a lo-fi gem i love bombastic gargantuan monstrous you know money dumped into them kind of movies i love you know the small movies as well i love

i just love movies but you know watching a lo-fi gym like this is it's really refreshing because it's like you're kind of stepping into the lives of other people for a brief period of time and what makes i think miss june teeth so strong is you get this feeling of history you can feel the history that preceded the movie and you have a vision of how their lives will continue afterwards and how different it will be and I really like that hopefulness and also that sense of time and like you really do feel like you're just kind of oh I'm just stepping into the lives of these people in this moment of their life and they're just living their life and it's

just really nice to watch black people just being just like living no matter like the circumstances of that life but like you know I think it's important and I hate using that word but I do think it is important to witness people of color queer, just kind of living and not having their lives be completely defined by their marginalization. It can infuse the story. Of course it will. But having so many of these so-called diverse stories that we're getting be so obsessed with the struggle

is really frustrating. Absolutely. For sure. And I feel like that goes back to the oscar discussion we were having earlier where it's like the performances that pain is so central to are the ones that are uplifted and it seems like the ones that get the institutional backing um i wanted to share a quote from Channing Godfrey Peoples that sort of speaks to that point. This is from when the movie was released in 2020. She says, I believe the kind of work I want to do is tell stories about humanity and especially the humanity of black folks. When you talk about Charles Burnett's Killer of Sheep and My Brother's Wedding, Julie Dash's Daughters of the Dust, you get to see Black folks in these really natural environments with all their subtleties. These are the films where you

see Black folks just be. I talked a little bit earlier about this authentic community I grew up in. It gave me this sense and I could just sit in this community and just watch and take it in. I believe in authentic dialogue. I'm a stickler to staying close to the script because I'm showing a community on screen that hasn't been seen before. Growing up in this community, there's so much that you feel. I love subtlety and nuance and finding those tiny human moments. Those are so important to a character's journey. And those are the moments that feel the most real to me. And that like comes across in every single frame of this movie. And I think like, yeah, also connects to what you're talking about, Angelica, about the extreme specificity of this movie and I think like yeah also connects to what you're talking about Angelica about the extreme specificity of this movie and part of what makes it feel so effortless is because

this is Channing Godfrey people's like lived experience and something that she had a vested interest in wanting to share with the world as a filmmaker and it just feels I don't know every element of this community feels like you're saying like real like almost like a documentary like you're just stepping into this world that doesn't explain itself to you you just explore exactly yeah yeah and one thing i want to really call out is chanting godfrey people's like amazing direction this is like you know witnessing someone's first feature and it's just like so realized like this and and you can get across like oh this is their voice and there's such warmth to both the direction and the cinematography and such detailing that's really beautiful

and it's the kind of direction that doesn't call attention to itself but it is making very smart choices about framing and where bodies are in the space that they're inhabiting I was really really taken in by her direction when I first watched it and re-watching it it's so beautiful and and like there's so many I don't know on the on the rewatch of this movie just seeing all these because she so fully understands and knows how she wants to present the Fort Worth community and and this black community in particular you get all of these subtleties of like different kinds of communities within this community like you see the church community and how that affects Turquoise and Kai you see the pageant community which can be really exclusive and can be extremely judgmental. And, you know, Turquoise is obviously feeling judged by a community that at one point was really important to her.

And then I think like the best of it is you see the community at the bar, which is like so loving and supportive and I always get like emotional when when Wayman has a heart attack and everyone's like we have to fix this and we have to fix it by like coming together and having a party and that's how we're going to support him through this and it works and like I just I love that there's so many different worlds within the world. And, and it's not, you're not like told by the movie, like this community is good. This community,

not good. Like you're, you just are following turquoise as she navigates it. It's also interesting to see how she upholds certain standards that the pageant has, which, you know, it can be pretty rigid. Theyant has, which, you know, it can be pretty rigid.

They're pretty, um, what's the word for when, I don't know. There's almost like a bourgeois kind of, Oh, you have to like pick up your little, it was a very like Titanic start from the outside and work your way in kind of

where it's like, pick up your wine glass pick up your dinner fork all this stuff and um not that like turquoise is like practicing anything like that at home but she again understands how this opportunity is one of very few if not the only opportunity she's going to be able to like provide for her daughter to get out of this kind of cycle of poverty. So she's kind of monitoring her daughter's behavior, who she hangs out with, what she wears, how she speaks. She's like often correcting her grammar because she kind of has to like align with the expectations of the pageant and the

propriety and the femininity and the beauty because even though again that's like we've talked about this a lot on various pageant episodes it's like yes this is a a contest to grant a scholarship but if that is like the most important part of it, why are the girls like walking around in these expensive gowns and like in full hair and makeup and stuff like that? If it really is about a scholastic thing, like why is appearance a factor at all kind of thing? But like Turquoise kind of has no choice but to sort of uphold those standards and it's interesting because it's like some of these movies like Dumplin was sort of like about trying to dismantle the pageant industrial complex yeah which is like you know that's not what this movie's about and it's just like yeah Kai is just like trying to be a regular teenager pursuing her own interests

her mother is like trying to open up this door for this scholarship opportunity i don't know it's just like a lot of interesting things that you're watching the characters navigate and balance and like you know kai is doing this to please her mom, even though she clearly doesn't want to. It's just it's a lot of like interesting, again, very relatable things to watch unfold, especially like in a mother daughter relationship dynamic. Yeah. And it's just so refreshing to watch mother daughter stories in film because like everything is so obsessed with father-sons we talk about this all the time or even just father and child slight rant like i'm dragging my feet to watch picard season three which i've heard is actually good and justifies the show existing finally but spoiler alert for people they decide to get like that dr beverly crusher

and john luke picard actually have a kid together which he didn't know about right and of course it's a son and i'm like how many more father sons do we need in star trek especially because picard and his mother like there's like there's a you don't get a lot of mother son stories either like no you don't you would think that mothers don't have sons or something or they mothers die it's just really frustrating and I think Miss Juneteenth is like really good at teasing out the complications that come between a single mother and her like only daughter whether there's other siblings or not you know what I mean and I think a lot at least speaking personally a lot of the growth and

work that comes with that relationship especially if there's like imbalances for whatever reason is like the mother coming to terms with the fact that you can't make your daughter into the woman you wish you were you have to nurture the woman she's becoming Damn, that was a banger line. That is the truth. Cut it, print it. It's true. And I feel like that is like something that any daughter of any mother can relate to, to some extent. But I don't know.

I'm trying to think of an example of this. It's just done so well. And just again, like effortlessly in this movie where you know that what turquoise like you understand why turquoise is doing what she's doing but you can also clearly see that it's misguided and it's not what her daughter wants or needs right now and then you can also see the movie you know grants turquoise the grace while like making it not like you know tiptoeing around like clearly kai doesn't want this, but you can also see how turquoise is treatment from her own mother informs that. And like,

I think that there's, I don't know. I mean, I can relate with this in my relationship with my own mom of like, uh, my mom was, you know, deprived of a lot of, uh, love and had a mother who was struggling with addiction her entire life and the relationship was strained and you know it's like people respond to that experience differently and how it comes out in turquoise is like a little bit of just like I know what's right this is the opportunity just trust me let's get just get through this and you can do what you want later which is like a very I think common thing and it's not it's not it doesn't make you a bad parent but it was interesting watching them navigate that kind of together I don't know it's just like so thoughtful I love it definitely some

of the most like endearing and tender moments of the movie is turquoise and kai bonding for example the like the cake scene when in a lot of these moments are like kind of sprinkled with like the tension that exists between them the way that tension is bound to exist between any like teenage kid and their parent but it's like the cake scene starts out with kai is like i don't know sitting in a dark closet on her phone like probably texting her boyfriend and clearly like you know feeling a certain way about the power being shut off and she says something like it's you know it's my birthday can we go out and turquoise can't afford that but she's already bought this cake and she's like you know we're gonna celebrate here and then they have this fun little like smearing cake on each other's faces and it's again like both of them trying to like alleviate the tension of this like situation and these circumstances and then there's another sweet

scene where kai is teaching her dad some of her choreography and then her mom comes home and she's just like oh what are you guys even doing but then she joins in and like learns some of the dance moves too and it's just like these sweet moments that show yes there is tension in this relationship and yes they don't always get along and kai probably feels a bit suffocated by all this pressure that turquoise is projecting onto her but they still find these like beautiful moments of levity which was just like so wonderful to see yeah yeah it's a very intimate film it's a film that really prizes intimacy between its characters and those tender moments you're highlighting i think are really good examples of that i wanted to yeah go over to

um we've talked about it a little bit but just kind of um come full circle on it uh turquoise's relationship with her mom yeah and how that is sort of unspooled throughout the course of the movie i just thought it was so well done and again just like this movie allows its characters to have shades of gray in this way that feels really unusual, where it's like Charlotte clearly was not the parent that Turquoise needed. Like she seems to be kind of, I mean, struggling with addiction in a way that she still seems, you know, at grandma age, not ready to acknowledge. And that's really, I mean, I think that the performance by Laurie Hayes is so beautiful and painful because it's you know you can be you know you can hold some anger for Charlotte for not

being the parent that Turquoise needed and also see that she's been suffering for so much of her life and is doing I mean everyone's doing the best they, and she's not able to be there for Turquoise or Kai in the way they need. And that's just presented as something that is unfair and sad, which is often how having someone in your life struggling with addiction can feel. And Turquoise is so gentle with her. And it just like, I don't know, that scene got me really emotional. It is really hard to watch someone have to navigate that situation and also be like, that's my mom. You know, like I want the best for this person and they cannot show up for me, but I can show up for them right now. And and still I like that after that, it's not, that's not the conclusion of that relationship.

Charlotte doesn't change overnight. She's been this way towards Turquoise for a long time and is still, you know, essentially ambushes her and Kai. And Turquoise is like, this is, this is the line. We have found the line. Congratulations. Which is sad in some ways because she's severing the relationship with her mom at least for now but I thought it was really I mean that's like a really great moment for her

and you just you see the kind of spectrum of what this mother-daughter relationship has looked like over the years in without a lot of time and it's so beautifully written and again just like Nicole Behar is unbelievable in the way she performs those scenes and yeah I don't know it's like a relatively small part of the movie but like Turquoise growing up with a parent who was both suffocating in a different way and struggling with addiction I just thought it was like so good I haven't seen that relationship done like that many times yeah truly and it's i mean turquoise the patience she shows her mom is i don't have that kind of patience like it's also it's just it was such an interesting we were touching on this as well already but the way that information about the Charlotte character

is woven into the narrative where at first it seems like, you know, you kind of have a sort of a stock character of like the overbearing religious mother. And it came as such a surprise to me when she shows up at the bar and she's like blackout drunk and you're like wait is this the same woman who had just been like talking about needing to save her daughter and like wanting to bring turquoise and kai to church to you know pray and and it's such a little detail but the fact that like there's like a little line from charlotte saying that she didn't think that turquoise was working tonight and so also that she's still it's an ongoing quest to hide her addiction from her daughter and from her family which is like yeah so simple and so quick but

definitely hits and prior to that because I think there are three main beats where the Charlotte character is involved the first one is the scene where Turquoise takes Kai to the church to meet up with her mom and say, I have to work tonight. Can you watch my daughter? And Charlotte is like, no. She basically says like, kind of gives an ultimatum, like, I'll be more involved in both of your lives if you accept jesus into your heart and turquoise is like well pass so never mind um and then and then charlotte says something like really hurtful she's like well she's not my daughter so you know yeah why should i bother in front of kai too yeah i was like jeez horrible yeah that was a really cruel i it really stuck out to me yeah damn yeah which you know shows the

hypocrisy that a lot of religious fundamentalist type people tend to display and the hypocrisy keeps going because in the second beat she previously charlotte was like oh you're working at the bar you know you're doing the devil's work and then she is at this same bar where this quote-unquote devil's work happens and she's drinking heavily and to be clear i'm not i'm not casting judgment on alcoholism but again it's the hypocrisy element it's yeah it's the the hypocrisy for charlotte to judge turquoise for working at a bar and then for Charlotte to turn around and get drunk at that same bar to the point where like her daughter has to bring her home and take care of her. And then the third beat, Charlotte pretends that never happened. And she's in church again.

And this is the scene where she's trying to, you know, save Turquoise and Kai. And she's continuing to judge Turquoise. What would really help her is like helping out with Kai, like the simple things that Turquoise is asking for. Right. That and then the final beat of all this is Charlotte becoming physically abusive to Turquoise, which is like the last straw for turquoise um so yeah it was just like i was fascinated to see it play out the way it does because again it feels very authentic and realistic in a way that relationships like that are not often characterized in a way that feels so authentic yeah i think one of the things we haven't touched on yet is turquoise's relationship with the men in the story yeah um who wants to start i'm glad she chose herself we need more

stories of women being like you know these you know not to say i don't want romance but these guys aren't right for me i'm'm just going to live my life. We do not have enough stories like that. So many stories about women would, like, end this one very differently. It would revolve around her making a choice between Kendrick Sampson's character, Ronnie, and her boss at the funeral home, Bacon.

But that's not the story that you know channing godfrey peoples is smart enough to understand like that's not really authentic to turquoise's story or what this character needs which is to figure out things on her own like to really figure out like what do i want for myself and for my daughter in a way that is holistic and recognizes her own desires and the desires of her daughter um i think neither of them are bad guys which i like i like that you know they have their faults obviously ronnie i think specifically decided to use the money for the dress for something else. Cause there's that moment in the bedroom.

Right. And they're having a conversation or like they're having a conversation at some point. He's like, Oh, but someone is like selling their like whatever. And like, you know,

this could lead to me opening up my own kind of car shop business or whatever. And like, turquoise is like, uh, you gotta be kidding me and it's just like they're not neither of them are bad people even though i feel like ronnie doesn't i mean doing something like that with the money shows in my opinion a little bit of a lack of respect and understanding right yeah and then bacon is so obsessed with whatever image in his

head he has of turquoise he refuses to acknowledge that she's not interested in him right and like she does not need him to solve her problems like she can't do that on her own yeah come on bacon like dude there are times it's just yeah it feels it's so funny because i feel like bacon in some ways presents himself as like i'm the mature option but he's acting like a teenager in the way that he talks to her where he's like someday it's like it just feels very like um i don't know there's a little bit of an entitlement there, but it's just like also emotionally immature. The way that he's like, well, sure, you're not interested now and you haven't been interested for 15 years. But one of these days, you're going to open your eyes and see me.

And it's like, no, if it hasn't happened yet, sorry, Bacon. And it doesn't make him a bad guy like like you're saying in jalka like in the same way it's like ronnie again is like one of the one of the people who cannot show up for turquoise and kai in the way that they need but you can also tell that he very like he loves his daughter and he's not made out to be a bad person or anything like like that he's made out to be someone who is who I think that like the main I guess flaw of his that stood out to me but you kind of just said Angelica was like that he sort of undercut the amount of work that turquoise had done in raising their daughter it doesn't mean he doesn't love his daughter but he like there's a few different times where he sort of just says like well you'll figure

it out you always do and it's like well she shouldn't have to like if you did what you said you were gonna do and but again it just it feels like a person that you've met before um in all the like messiness that uh people can be and also that like turquoise i don't know i i felt for her in the way that it's like she's still clearly attracted to ronnie and like has love for him and it seems like to me again i'm like probably projecting all over the movie but like that like she always is like holding out hope that he's going to show up in the way that she needs him to. But like knows deep down he probably won't because she is usually prepared for Ronnie to not show up in the way that that she needs him to. But still has love for him. And like that's a that's a, you know, also very different, painful dynamic to to be in that I feel like you don't see presented in that way of

like they're not a bad person but they can't do what I need and so it's like I have to walk away and yeah she chooses herself there's so few examples of that yeah and that we get her happy ending and it makes sense like I feel like sometimes you'll get like if if a character chooses themselves it requires this like deus ex machina writing to be like and then this amazing coincidence happened so they'll be fine but it's like no turquoise had you know was able to make it happen for herself and her buying the bar was her idea and it was a idea that was like supported by her community at the bar and like worked out in a way that felt very real and still optimistic and happy ending i just hope she gets better tips than a quarter

that one guy is like a little something for you and his tip is 25 cents doing like yeah yeah what am i supposed to do with that i can't even buy bubble gum with that like what in this economy what do i yeah does 25 cents even matter like what is that what what is that you might as well give me a penny thanks yeah the the men it's like what she wants from ronnie is to be more reliable and with that probably comes from like financial stability which is what bacon has and is offering but she has no romantic feelings for him it seems and ronnie she does but again he's not reliable he might have a gambling problem it's kind of suggested he also brings kai into that situation where like oh some people start like brawling in front and she's like visibly getting frightened and he's like no it's all good and it's like you shouldn't be bringing

a teenager into a scenario like that. That's potentially very dangerous. So like, you know, he's making some choices. But again, like this is a movie where people are making mistakes constantly. And it's just a matter of who is going to learn from their mistakes, who is going to grow. And I'm glad that we're focusing on a character who demonstrates so much growth by the end. Like Turquoise is like, you see it with her finally acknowledging that her daughter wants to dance and saying like, when are the dance tryouts? She realizes that to be able to kind of have any autonomy over her finances and, and, and job is to like,

just take it. It's a huge step and it's a gamble, but it feels right. And so she buys the bar. And I like that scene where Wayman is, turquoise is talking about the American dream. And he's like, there is no American dream for black folks.

Like whatever you have, that's yours, like cling to for dear life. the american dream and he's like there is no american dream for black folks like whatever you have that's yours like cling to for dear life and people are going to try to take it away from you but like for so many of us that's the best we can hope for and and now she does have that she has like her own thing she's gonna and she's gonna fix damn, the stall in the bathroom, the door on the cooler. And I'm just like, I almost wish we got like a scene a few months down the road where she had like made some slight adjustments to the bar to like make it a little more pleasant to work at. But yeah, sorry, I'm just like rambling. But it's just such a nice story with such wonderful character characters as individuals and then like character dynamics yeah that we explore

uh is there anything else anyone else wanted to touch on i hope channing godfrey people's announces another film soon that is like my main thing right now so i did a little bit of uh googling while we've been talking and it seems as if in 2021 but again that's over two years ago she started work on a tv adaptation of miss juneteenth but i haven't been able to find much outside of that announcement that would be really cool I was like I mean that would give possibly give Caitlin what you were just talking about like a more a deeper look at this world or a longer timeline or whatever that looks like to her I mean I hope that that happens but it was announced you know two and a half years ago now and I haven't seen

an update fingers crossed I don't know I mean yeah Fingers crossed. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I just, I would, I would watch anything that she releases really. Like, and I really love, I mean, I love just in general when directors and writers have a vested interest in a location. I just love that. And it seems like she wants to continue to set a lot of her work in Fort Worth

and in the South and in like small communities and that's like some of my favorite stuff I really I hope we see more from her soon same yeah and then the last thing I wanted to just briefly touch on was that there are a few allusions to the fact that turquoise used to be a stripper oh yes it doesn't seem like she's ashamed about it she is somewhat secretive about it but to me it felt like she was kind of like keeping it on the down low to like keep up appearances because of the um the propriety and the etiquette that the pageant is so concerned with like Like, you know, Kai and her family have to be, you know, quote unquote, model citizens sort of thing. But when Kai learns about this

and she confronts her mother, Turquoise is just like, I'm not sorry for being able to put food on the table. And she kind of implies that she did this out of desperation which like you could argue is like sort of shamey of sex work but also again it's just like she's not this isn't some like dark secret that she's holding on to it's more like I did what I had to do it wasn't ideal for me I wish I didn't have to do that but I'm trying to make sure that you if that's not something you want to do in your future like I'm trying to provide other paths for you so

yeah I mean it didn't strike me as shamey towards sex work I think that it was like it it felt like in the moments it came out it felt to me more like Turquoise was trying to navigate the stigma she's aware it has. And also just like acknowledging that that was not what she wanted her end game job to be in a way that didn't seem like it was cruel or dismissive of people who do want to be strippers for a long time and like really love that that job it wasn't a job that she loved and also I think I don't know it didn't really ping for me as a as a shaming moment yeah same yeah same I thought that was a very revealing moment about like the boundaries and dynamics between turquoise and Kai and like kai looks at her mother and like there were

moments watching it where i like so felt for kai because i've like been in her place where you're just like dealing with such tension with your mother but then i think like you know the parent child relationship often it takes a very long time for children to recognize like oh my parent is just a person they live this whole life before me and even since they've had me that I'm not gonna know everything about and I think that's like what that moment is kind of touching on like the parts of your parents you don't really know and I think for Kai it was like oh wait there's a lot about my mom i don't realize and and how much she works and tries to figure things out for me and i i think the way um channing godfrey people's writes and directs that moment is really sharp in his understanding of the characters and it's like a

closer shot of both of them and like you can kind it's really just smart character work in terms of framing and like giving these performances room to breathe in a way that can reveal further layers about such a moment I really yeah I thought that moment was really interesting right I also felt something I mean it doesn't exactly I mean it thankfully doesn't exactly mirror the scene between Turquoise and Charlotte when Charlotte needs to be taken care of and needs to be taken out of the bar. But I feel like that is the moment where Turquoise is very much the child and is like, my mom

needs me to be this person for her right now. This is what I'm going to do. You sort of see that in the moment with Kai and the birthday cake where she's frustrated that the power has been turned off like this is not the birthday she wants she's we know she's disappointed about it but you can sort of see her make the decision of like I'm going to go with this because my mom needs me to do this right now for for her of like you know turquoise just needed her to take the cake and be happy and like even perform like happiness in this really difficult moment for both of them and it's so I feel like that's such a such a part of like becoming an adult of like

recognizing those moments and even when it's painful like kai i mean and that's so much of why she's doing the pageant in the first place um and then over the course of the movie even though kai is not the main character of the movie like learns to draw her boundaries with her mother of like this is what i'm able to give you and you need to meet me where i'm at too but i really liked that just like really subtle performance moment between them where they just both have to they both decide like the power isn't on and that has to be okay and it's still a birthday and it's just like such uh yeah again it's like the combination of the writing and how subtle and great both performances are that makes me cry.

It's really nice. Beautiful. This movie obviously passes the Bechdel test. I mean, I don't think we really need to talk about it. Yeah. Most of it does. Yes, indeed. So on to our nipple scale.

Yes, another ill-fated title. No, it's perfect um where we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens this is a rare moment on the bechtdel cast because we're usually doling out one nipple for a movie. I'm going to give five nipples to Miss Juneteenth. I really can't think of anything to criticize about it from an intersectional lens. I think it's just really beautiful in the way that it handles the story, the characters, their relationships, the balance between showing the things that they're dealing with, the things that they're struggling with, and kind of balancing that with moments of love and levity and joy and i love the realism of it all the fact that like the movie had the guts to not award kai with like one of the runners up or the queen like because every other movie would

have been like and she won because she pulled out all the stops and did this possesses the bravery of school of rock in that way yeah i love i love when the main character doesn't get the prize it's always like a more rewarding viewing experience yeah because what's more important is like the lessons they learned along the way and sure would it have been nice if she did get the scholarship yes but also as kai points out like if i join the dance team i can get a scholarship through that and that's actually what i want to pursue and even though there's not like that big victory at the end things definitely are looking up for them with like this new ownership of the bar and kai is gonna join the dance team so there's again just moments of like levity there's

an understanding that this family's dealing with a lot but it's all just like handled very beautifully and this comes as at no surprise because of who directed the film we're always talking about okay like who's handling this subject matter and because the writer director is a black woman from fort worth from fort worth like this is her youth that she's like showing in this movie yeah yeah so goes to show why it's so important for people of marginalized communities to have the chance to tell their own stories and tell whatever stories they want to tell yeah and Channing Godfrey Peoples did an incredible job and yeah like we said I hope there's a lot more on the horizon for her so five nipples i'll spread them among channing love a spread yeah a spread spread of nipples

wow yes and it's a delicious spread um nicole bahari the actor who plays kai alexis chiques again still unclear on her pronunciation so sorry a, Alexis. That's who gets my nipples. I'm going to go five as well. Yeah, this movie, it just fucking rips. It is like just spending time in a very specific world. I love, like you're saying, Angelica, I mean, there's not a lot of movies about black people in the South. And the fact that this seems to be based

on the interviews she was giving the exact movie that channing godfrey peoples wanted to make and she got to make it and she got to make it on her own terms and it's fucking awesome and i just like i i really love this movie and i feel like of it's it's also in the like pageant movie genre, completely unlike anything else. There's so many. I feel like, I mean, I guess you could make this argument for Little Miss Sunshine, but I think like especially the Miss Juneteenth pageant and the way that that information is introduced to the audience. I feel like very often you're almost as an audience member, like over explained to, and it almost feels like an Adam McKay movie for a second of like,

Hey, let me tell you about Juneteenth. And it's like, it's not Channing Godfrey people's job to tell me what Juneteenth is. And it like, you find out about this community and what's important to them and their history very organically through the world. And it's,

I love, I don't know. I just love everything about this movie. The mother-daughter dynamics. I feel like there's so many movies about generational trauma right now that there's like generational trauma tropes that this movie evades completely. You get little tastes of so many different parts of this world. There's so much about Turquoise and ronnie's relationship that we don't know but you get a feeling for it just on the performances and the writing

there's so much about turquoise and charlotte that we don't know but you get a taste of it and i just like um i i don't know i think in the past couple years i've really grown to appreciate movies that don't feel the need to explain themselves to you like you're there and you can sort of get a feel for what the world is when it's shown to you the way that this movie shows you fort worth and shows you turquoise's community and life and i just love it um yeah i'm gonna go five nipples how am i gonna spread my nipples let's see let's see oh you know what i want to give part of my spread to uh shout out opal lee and her cameo in the yeah movie she gets she's included in my spread as well i'm giving all of mine to channing godfrey people so i'm gonna keep it simple i just and i really

um look forward to seeing what she makes next and hope that it will get the support that it deserves definitely yeah angelica how about you five nipples all the way yeah and i'm gonna echo jamie and give them all to channing godfrey peoples i find how you know culturally realized and warm and striking and aesthetically astute the film is to be really inspiring. I think there's this belief that all stories have already been told, but watching something like Miss Juneteenth is a reminder that because of how barred black people have been from telling their own stories, that's not true. There's so many stories that have yet to be told. And I think, you know, Channing Godfrey

Peoples is really inspiring for being able to create a film she's really proud of and didn't have to compromise on and offered audiences something they hadn't seen before whose importance lies in the artistry of it and the care put into it not just because it's you know showing this side of black identity yeah i'm just you know just really taken by the film and i really love it and hope people continue to discover it over the years for sure i would say all stories about the straight white male experience have been told yeah but there are so many others yeah doesn't mean they'll stop trying they will not stop never gonna stop but so frustrating and i can't wait to see nicole bahari lead another movie yes yes damn it she's such a good artist she's put so much care

into her craft i feel like we've only like scratched the surface of what she can do as a performer so for sure i really hope for the best for her career same yeah well angelica thank you so much for joining us this has been a delight oh come back anytime truly yeah i would love to come back on thank you for inviting me this was a really fun conversation of course yeah any movie you want you can i mean it's also fun to shit on a movie for two hours if you've got one yeah it's it's funny i've become like known for some reason as a contrarian like i hate everything but haha see i talked about how i loved a movie for like almost two hours so fuck off haters and that's that beautiful vulgarity wait what's what's the the deliciously vulgar

aspect of that you all came for exactly but truly thank you again and where can people check out your work, follow you online, et cetera? Most of my work you can find at New York Magazine site Vulture or in the pages of New York Magazine because that's my job. That's my main girl. That's where most, like 97% of my work is just Vulture because that's my job. But I do freelance occasionally and you know if you follow me on Instagram at Angelica Jade Bastien you can keep up with my work or you know subscribe to my lovely newsletter which is updated every four months because that's just how I roll sorry y'all

but I love a jump scare newsletter yeah it's like hey hey y'all it's been six months i'm back i'd rather that than i'm like a weekly news i'm like get out of here just quit bugging me yes leave me alone what are you doing what do you have to say yeah um but my newsletter is on substack and it's called mad women and muses and yeah you can find me there you can find me at vulture you can find me shooting the shit on instagram lives occasionally to talk shit about whatever movie i want to um but yeah you know google me you'll find me i'm around wonderful we're around too and you can follow us on twitter and instagram at bechtel cast you can go to our patreon aka matreon where we famously did a whole month dedicated to pageant movies which we famously called pageantry and um that plus many many other episodes it's

five dollars a month you get two bonus episodes every month plus the back catalog of I think a hundred and I don't know 30, 50, something like that bonus episodes and that is all at patreon.com slash Bechtelcast and you can get merch over at tpublic.com slash the Bechtelcast and

yeah with that how do we how do we okay the runner up of this episode. No, I'm kidding. It is not us. You know who won? All three of us. Well, hell yeah.

We won Miss Spectlecast. We're all winners. We did it again. 500 episodes running. We did it. Yes. Okay, bye. Bye.

Hey everybody, this is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. Hit it. Yes. Okay, bye. Bye. Hey, everybody. This is Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang. We've got some exciting news for you. You know we're always bringing you the best guests, right? Well, this week we're taking it to the next level. The one, the only, Katherine Hahn is joining us on Lost Culture East.

That's right. The queen of comedy herself. Get ready for a conversation that's as hilarious as it is insightful. Tune in for all the laughs, the stories, and of course, the culture. Don't miss Katherine Hahn on Las Culturistas. Listen to Las Culturistas on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Teherry-Poor.

If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved

country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.