The Bechdel Cast - Mrs. Doubtfire with Emily Heller

Episode Date: January 4, 2018

HellOOoooooo! Caitlin and Jamie put an ad in the newspaper for a guest to discuss Mrs. Doubtfire, and luckily Emily Heller replied!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast. Follow @MrEmilyHeller on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer, this season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus, only on Apple Podcasts. On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women in them Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effin' vast, start changing it with the Bechdelcast Hello and welcome to the Bechdelcast, my name is Caitlin

My name is Jamie And you're listening to the podcast about the portrayal of women in movies It's true Hey, guess what? Yeah, what? My name is Jamie. And you're listening to the podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. It's true. Hey, guess what? Yeah, what? Women in movies usually are not portrayed well or at all. Oftentimes, not even at all. Just a hot fact to start the cast out.

Ever seen the movie The Thing? Pretty sure there's no women in it at all. No, is that a vagina monster movie? Yeah, you could probably argue yes. I went on a date last night and i pre-gamed by watching teeth i didn't know you went on a date listen it was why fine why didn't you tell me it was i know that we're codependent i did it was an impromptu and i was in the middle of watching teeth i'm like let me just finish watching Teeth and then sure, let's meet up.

Yeah, that's a great way to... Yeah, I can't recommend watching Teeth before going on a first date enough. A blast. If you're not familiar with the movie Teeth... We'll get to it. Yeah, we'll get there. But it's about a woman whose vagina is full of teeth.

And she bites... Yeah, she bites dudes' dicks off. Yeah, vigilante justice, feminist icon teeth. Teeth. Yeah, so this is the Bechdel cast we use for our yardstick of how women are treated in film. We use the Bechdel test inspired by Alison Bechdel. And our interpretation of it is the movie must have two female characters with names speak to each other at some point in the movie about something other than a man. Only has to be, I think that this comes up a lot, people are like, oh, it has to be a whole scene.

Then nothing would pass. It literally has to be two lines of dialogue that happens. The lowest bar possible. And yet so many movies manage to still not pass the Bechdel test. Some of the most famous movies of all time. I'm excited about the movie we're talking about today. Yes. So before we talk about it though, let's introduce our guest.

She is a comedian. She is terrific. Emily Heller. Hello. Are you doing Mrs. Delft for me? I am. Why wouldn't I? Hello. Hello. Are you doing Mrs. Doubtfire? I am! Why wouldn't I? Hello! Hello!

Amazing. It always gets a laugh. It always does. So we're talking about Mrs. Doubtfire. When did you first see the movie? What's your history with this movie? Okay, I definitely saw it as a kid, possibly when it came out.

I don't remember. Okay. But then I definitely watched it again as an adult, you know, maybe like eight years ago. Yeah. And then again yesterday. You know, I'm from the Bay Area, too. So, you know, the bus that Mrs. Doubtfire gets on is a bus I used to ride when I lived there. That exact bus?

The 22 film. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And, you know, I started comedy in San Francisco, so it was like Robin Williams was like around. Wow. Yeah. That's wild.

But yeah, so I feel like pretty connected to this movie in a lot of ways. Sure. This movie was a huge movie of my childhood. There were like probably like 10 different movies that I just watched all the time. This was one of them. I saw The Brave Little Toaster a lot. Jumanji. Homeward Bound.

Dude, I got in so much trouble. Like the most trouble I ever got in as a kid was when I was 11 years old. It was the first time ever my parents were letting me go to the movies without an adult. They organized this whole thing where this big group of girls were going to go see tom and huck oh yeah that jtt movie and then while we were in line waiting to buy tickets one of the girls revealed that she had not seen jumanji and we were all like you haven't seen

jumanji and we got to the front of the line we were like does jumanji get out at the same time as tom and huck and they were like yeah and they like, we're seeing Jumanji instead. Like, I changed the plans. We went to go see Jumanji instead. Jumanji did not get out at the same time as Tom and Huck. It got out 20 minutes later. And my mom, who had showed up to the movie theater to pick us up, thought we had all been kidnapped. Abducted from the showing of Tom and Huck. She waited outside the exit of Tom and Huck, watched every single person leave. None of us were in there. And she was so furious with me. Oh, yeah. Did you ever end up seeing Tom and Huck, though?

No, I didn't. Here's the thing. But I did see Jumanji again. Tom and Huck, it's fine. JTT, very, I mean. Yeah, I wasn't that big of a J JTT very I mean yeah I wasn't that big of a JTT fan I mean I kind of was

but I didn't really know was JTT is he because there's JTT and then every child slash teen actor of that era who looks exactly like him

but wasn't him no one looked exactly like him no one had the same sparkle it was his truly it was his coloring of like the dark eyebrows and the light eyes and then the sandy hair it was like a very unusual the contrast yeah the contrast and this like smirky smile i can't even picture what he looks like treasure island is or is that a jtt poser oh great question you know what let me check it out

i'm most familiar with muppet christmas carol stop the podcast stop the gang it's not him it's not him nope yeah there's just a lot of lookalikes out there i do like on a muppet movie wikipedia page they bill all of the muppets before any human top build is kermit the frog, as it should be, I guess. Of course. But Kermit the Frog got billed before Tim Curry. Amazing. Anyways, Mrs. Doubtfire. Yeah, Mrs. Doubtfire. Yeah, baby. So yeah, I saw this movie a ton as a kid, but I hadn't seen it probably for 15 or 20 years.

Oh, yeah. So I'm watching it again. Whew. Interesting. It's super interesting. Interesting things that happen. What about you, Jamie? What's your history?

I didn't see this movie for a while. My older cousins would watch it all the time, but I wasn't allowed to. And then eventually, I think I probably saw it around the time I was like seven or eight and then probably again in high school and then again for this. But I haven't seen it in like a good at least between 10 and 15 years. Like it's been it's been a bit. And yeah, there are some there have been some big cultural shifts that would make this movie least between 10 and 15 years. It's been a bit. Yeah. There's a lot. There have been some big cultural shifts that would have made this movie somewhat impossible now. I will say the writer of this movie, Randy Mayim Singer, she and I follow each other

on Twitter. She's an outspoken feminist. She seems really cool. All right. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. The movie was written by two women and then it's adapted from a novel also written by

a woman. There's a lot of interesting gray area in this story. This was adapted from a novel? Yes. A novel called Madam Doubtfire, I think. Alias Madam Doubtfire. Oh, my God. By Anne Fine.

I love alias Madam Doubtfire. Makes it sound like a spy movie. Yeah. Which it sort of is. Yeah. I mean, he's definitely spying on his family. Oh, yeah. And his wife and her new relationship. Stu. Yeah. I mean, he's definitely spying on his family. Oh, yeah. And his wife and her new relationship.

Stu. Stu. Pierce. What is Stu? Also directed by Chris Columbus of the first two Harry Potter movies. And Home Alone. And Home Alone fame. Oh, yeah.

And the really stinky on-screen adaptation of Rent. Oh, yeah. Ugh. Oh, Chris Columbus. You're all over the place, buddy. What's happening? Anyways, he's a Rent. Oh, yeah. Oh, Chris Columbus. You're all over the place, buddy. What's happening? Anyways, he's a millionaire. We're fine.

I'll do the recap of Mrs. Doubtfire. Mrs. Doubtfire is about a man named Daniel Haylard, played by Robin Williams, and he's a party animal. He has kids and he loves them and he wants to have fun with them. He's a cool dad. He's a fun dad. He's a party animal. He has kids and he loves them and he wants to have fun with them. He's a cool dad.

He's a bad dad. And he is married to Miranda, played by Sally Field. And he throws a party for his 12-year-old son. And she comes in on it. The house is a mess. She's like, this is too much. Well, and she had told him he wasn't allowed to have a birthday party because his grades were too low. Right. So this is a classic. The cool parent overriding the mean parent.

He's like acting like a dad who's already been divorced. Right. Like, why are you acting out of spite like this towards a woman you're currently married to? So yeah, she comes home. She's fed up with all of his antics and she's like, let's get a divorce. And he's like, no! And in the divorce proceedings, he's granted no custody except for like, he can only

see them on Saturdays or something like that. So he's like, I need to see my kids more. And he finds out that Miranda's going to take out an ad in the newspaper to hire a housekeeper. So he goes to his brother, who is a makeup artist for the movies for Hollywood, except not because they're in San Francisco. First, he sabotages the ad so that she can't get any real inquiries.

Some classic print journalism manipulation. And then, yeah, so he calls and puts on this whole facade of like i'm the best i'm mrs doubtfire well yeah so his his brother who is like does makeup for movies yeah he calls him up and says make me a woman and his brother says i'm so happy for you which is like oh this is a very this is a joke i didn't notice as a kid there are tons There are tons of those. And begs a lot of questions of like, why did he like that? Doesn't the character and that statement didn't necessarily like line up. I was like, oh, interesting. What's the story there?

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, he makes all these like this prosthetic mask and this whole bodysuit and everything like that to turn Daniel into Mrs. Doubtfire. And then he poses as the family's housekeeper for months. Yeah, it seems like it's months. Yeah, it's a while. Sally Field, while an intelligent and empowered woman, does not recognize that her ex-husband is in a movie.

That is definitely the biggest buy in this movie is that she does not recognize him. Right. Because she's capable in literally every other way. Yes. And also, I don't know if either of you have been in a long-term relationship. No. There's one thing I know very well, and it's my boyfriend's face.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I see that thing all the time. I know exactly what his teeth look like i know exactly i know you know and they did do like fake teeth and like lots of prosthetics and stuff like that but fucking but still but it's recognizable as robin williams yeah you've had three children with this like yeah you know this person has been inside you. Yeah. Thank you. As someone who has never been in a long term relationship, but knows how faces work. I think I would recognize. Anyway, yeah. So no one I feel like that's a big problem for the movie Tootsie as well. But yeah, well, another thing is this movie is set in san francisco which i think at the time probably had one of the most robust transgender communities in the entire country right you don't

live in san francisco and not know about transgender people especially if you're like an adult what i'm saying is like it's a lot easier for transgender people to pass sometimes in like the middle of america or like places where there are no transgender people because no one's looking for it. And so the fact that that also wasn't a factor in this. Like there's a few tongue in cheek jokes but you're like why is this set

in the one city where this would be the hardest to pull off. That's true. I mean maybe she thought that Mrs. Doubtfire was just a transgender woman and just didn't say anything about it which would be interesting also but 1992 would be pretty progressive to not call out in a movie yeah but there's no mention of that and instead there is like whenever daniel is making calls to basically make it so that mrs doubtfire when she

calls is going to be like the best possible scenario. Oh, right. Because he does this whole like montage of calling. Of calling, of doing like bad candidates. And one of the bad candidates is him saying, I don't work with the males because I used to be one. And then. Oh, yeah.

And then she's like, oh, I gotta go. She's like, yikes, and hangs up the phone. And it's like. But also, like, I get that it was teeing up that terrible transphobic joke. But why would a transgender woman not want to work with boys? Like, logically, setting aside the transphobia of that joke, what is the logical explanation for? Makes no sense. Yeah, it just doesn't track on any level.

Yeah. for makes no sense yeah it just doesn't track on any level yeah yeah so basically daniel works as mrs doubtfire for the family's housekeeper for months yes taking care of the kids being a better father than he ever had been before basically which is kind of in some ways makes him more culpable because it's like okay you understand how rules can benefit children and you understood it before you just were unwilling to enforce it. Yeah. Cool. Cool, cool, cool.

But as a woman, not as much of a problem. Yeah. Yeah. There's some weirdness going on. Yeah. And then his two older children find out about his true identity. And he tells them to keep it a secret. Right.

And then toward the end, the big dinner scene with all the switcheroos between his like big work opportunity and then the birthday dinner for his ex-wife for his ex-wife sally fields character finds out oh you're actually my husband faking being our our housekeeper this whole time put yourself in sally fields i mean just to say that's yeah the fucking distrust i would have of every person around me for the following five years of my life. Right. You know what I mean? Especially upon finding out that it's like, oh, also two of my children knew and my my ex-husband like swore his children to secrecy. There's just like also asked me a lot of questions about my sex life with my new boyfriend.

Yeah. Which just makes the ending of this movie. He was like, also ask me a lot of questions about my sex life with my new boyfriend. Which just makes the ending of this movie, it's a family movie, but like makes the end completely bananas. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because then, I mean, they have a fight. He's granted no custody. He gets to have supervised visits.

Yeah. But he starts playing Mrs. Doubtfire on TV. So I guess he's trustworthy. So I guess it's fine. And then Miranda approaches him at work and she's like, you know what? Things were better. You should see the kids and da, da, da. Because she realizes she can't find another housekeeper as good as Mrs. Doubtfire and they all miss her. And they're like, she's like, what are we talking about?

She's not a real person. Why are we talking? But, yeah. Yeah. And then like she opens the door to their new housekeeper and then it's the reveal that it's daniel and she's like you can hang out with your dad more yeah the end every day after school yeah okay i do kind of think it's interesting that they bothered to include the custody battle of like oh for sure he would not get custody after all of this yeah i was like oh

that i mean that seemed kind of realistic uh or more realistic than than a lot of parts of the movie but then at the end i it just it bugged me that like sally field's character is the one to be like you know what i was not wrong but like i forgive you for this massive weird breach of breach yeah yeah yeah i i mean she does seem like she's being a little bit too forgiving but she's also like i think this is the best outcome for my kids you know what i mean right how do you protect your kids after something like that so yeah it's definitely messed up but i can see if i were like a kid and then i found out my dad was doing this thing that was like kind of funny to me and kind of bizarre i would be like oh dad what but like cool i don't

know i wouldn't be like afraid of yeah i mean like giving it the most possible credit it's like she probably assessed that her kids were not traumatized by this, not visibly traumatized by it, and that it was in performing the Mrs. Doubtfire ruse, he demonstrated his willingness to change his parenting style to adjust for the things that he needed to, but also. But also Mrs. Doubtfire. It is bizarre because it's like, you know, he is more, like, Daniel's more respectful of her parenting style by the end of the movie and definitely, like, sees the value. But again, it's like we sort of see

that he knows that at the beginning. He's just not doing it. Yeah. Right. He, this movie is just not doing it yeah right yeah he this movie is just like it's yeah but that said it is a way longer than i remembered so long over two hours long oh man it's insanely long but but it's i mean i enjoy this movie it's there's just so much like this movie could not be made right now i just keep thinking of the

storyline in arrested development when tobias the mrs featherbottom combination mary poppins and mrs doubtfire thing yeah but the joke there is that everyone knows that it's clearly tobias playing this character they're just tolerating it yeah And letting him do housework. And just letting him do free labor. So one of the first things I wanted to bring up about the movie as it relates to the portrayal of women is a segment that I call Breaking Shrews. It's like breaking news, but it's a discussion of all the shrews in the movie. I appreciate it quietly.

Yeah, thank you so much. Pretty much every female character that we see on screen, basically everyone is presented as a shrewish character in some way. Aside from Mara Wilson's character. Right. Too young to shrew. Too young to shrew. Too young to shrew quite yet.

But just about everyone else, including the older daughter, Lydia, she's the one who's all like, no, we shouldn't have a party. Mom said we couldn't. Later on, she is judging her dad's apartment that he moves into. And she's like, this place is detestable. She's always just kind of being like, rules, rules, rules. I'm no fun. Right. Impossible to please. Yeah. Then we see the neighbor lady who basically narcs on them for having the party. Giant disruptive party with barn animals. Yeah. But she's all like, I'm going to tell on you. Shrews herself right into a divorce. And when I was a kid, when I was a kid, I definitely was like, oh, yeah, she's a mean mom.

Oh, yeah. I was so on Daniel's side when I was a kid. Yes, for sure, yeah. And now, now I see this movie and I'm like, I'm on Miranda's side. I'm so on her side.

I feel like that's something about this movie that is both brilliant and sad, which is that kids totally see the mom character as the bad guy. But as a woman, I was like, oh, this was made for me in some ways because it's like I feel like in some ways a very compassionate portrayal of Sally Field. She gets ample opportunity to explain all of the ways that Daniel's behavior ruined their marriage. And it's totally legitimate. Totally legitimate. And then she gets to have

this fucking fantasy hot boyfriend who's been following her career and her career success is a big part of why he's attracted to her and he's totally

giving her everything. In some ways, it's like totally like giving her everything she in some ways it's like total wish fulfillment for her in some ways like oh i'm just one breakup away from stew from fucking pre james bond 007 he is truly a vision in this movie uh yeah he's he's like i mean like the camera loves. There's that whole like diving board scene at the pool. I was just like, I was not expecting to get horny during this movie, but I forgot about Stu. Yeah. You see Stu's nipples. You do see Stu's nibs.

Yeah. New sub podcast, Stu's nibs. I was expecting going into this movie because i remember same same as you like not liking the mom when i was little and being like oh my god she's so mean she's so terrible and also having a very clear like map in my head of like this is like my parents where like my mom is a disciplinarian and my dad is same fun same dynamic with my parents yeah i think that's like a lot of kids parents and and so i remember thinking that mom is so mean but the movie yeah to its credit i was expecting a far more like villainized portrayal of sally fields character but she she does at every point

like i tried to put myself in my mom's head seeing this movie i'm like i i wonder if she felt uh heard i wonder if she felt pissed off when robin started doing some weird, you know, I don't know. Well, I mean, I think it depends on the audience who's consuming this. Like we said, when we're kids, we're like, oh, boo, mean mom. But we as grown women who often either have to ourselves or see other women carrying all the burdens and the emotional labor of maintaining a household. And we're like, yeah, we hear you. We get it. Yeah. It's just frustrating. But she is frustrating. You know, nothing's really done to make her seem like a more reasonable, compelling character to the young audience who's seeing this, I think. Right. so we as children who i think this movie is the

target demographic for or like families you know people with kids the movie is like yeah she's the shrew she's the bad guy she doesn't get her save the cat moment right at all yeah absolutely yeah we're like there there could have been a moment in this movie where because she she has opportunities to explain where she's coming from we know that she's not a bad person she's not a bad parent but but at no point did her kids express an interest in spending time with her at no point do we understand like we as adults can conceptually understand like she's doing all this stuff for the good of her children but at no point as a kid watching this did i think, what a cool mom.

You know, I never thought like you never really see her doing anything for the kids. That's like fun. And sometimes you need that in a movie, especially when you're young. I remember my first movie I saw that took place in San Francisco when I was a kid was The Princess Diaries. And the mom in that movie rules. I mean, she works works she's like a full-time artist but there's like scenes where she and like mia are like having an awesome time together and it's like oh even though you know like she has to have her mom moments like miranda

does in this movie like we see that there's a relationship there but that's not really here and i feel like that might be partially connected to like a working woman kind of stigma of like, oh, she's a little bit she's not a bad mom. She's a little bit cold kind of thing. Yeah. She's got a career. She doesn't have as much time or energy to be a kind, caring mother. Right. She's not around enough to realize that her ex-husband in drag is has infiltrated her home she's a little cold she's a little distant the custody scene the first custody scene is really interesting for like

understanding people's ideas of parenting at the time yeah because the judge in the moment is basically saying like when he's making the ruling of like daniel getting one day of custody as he was like you know usually these favor the mother, but recently we've realized that kids need dads. Like, it's like a very weird sort of like, wait, what? Like, when I was watching that this time, I was like, was that supposed to be like a joke?

Was that supposed to be like a little progressive, like wink to like- I don't think so. I couldn't tell what that was intended, how that was intended to land at the time. And it seemed like he was saying that because Daniel didn't have a job, that was why he would not be a good guardian. And it's like, but she has a job. And also, wouldn't he have more time to be a guardian?

Yeah. That doesn't seem like... It's confusing. Unless he meant that he would need income. Because he doesn't have his shit guardian. Yeah. Like, that doesn't seem like... It's confusing. It's confusing. Unless he meant that he would need income. Because he doesn't have his shit together. Yeah. But still. To be able to care for them.

But, yeah. I don't know. The whole thing is weird. That's an interesting comment on, like, masculinity that the movie's making. Because him not having a job is, you know, like, a deal is made of it. Where, in some ways, like, I think it think it's like portrayed a lot of like you know a man not having not being the breadwinner of the family is portrayed not not in extreme ways by this movie but that's like somehow stripped him of his masculinity and in some ways well and we

should point out too that when we first meet him it's when he quits his job because they're trying to make him do a pro cigarette voiceover for a children's cartoon, which is a very easy way to get people on your side to be like, I'm quitting because I don't think kids should smoke cigarettes. They're like, oh, we're on board. We love this guy. And so you're like, oh, well, it's not his fault. He doesn't have a job like he quit in righteous anger. Yeah, right. Right. And I love how the movie portrays that as something that could just happen like oh no there comes a time and every year yeah sometimes you just have to walk off the job that you probably have signed a contract for and can't just leave by walking off that day yeah anyway so sally field's character is pretty shrewish throughout the movie there's a few other shrews that I wanted to mention. The grandma who doesn't even get any lines and you only see her for like one very brief scene.

But he makes a crack about her being dead. Yeah, being a corpse and like smelling like formaldehyde. The court liaison lady, Mrs. Selner or something like that. Yeah. She's an old shrewish lady with no sense of humor like his divorce parole officer which is like not a thing that i realized existed i'm not sure that it does the way that custody is treated in this movie is like a little uncanny valley yeah like is he being watched that carefully for where are these government resources going yeah also you don't

ever see this character on screen but daniel's brother, Frank, played by Harvey Feinstein. Feinstein. Feinstein. Sorry. Sorry for sounding so intense. Actually, he is on the phone with their mother and she's like, like being all. And he's like, I don't want to talk to mom about my divorce. Yeah.

Yeah. Just a very overbearing mother. And they're like, ooh, no, no thanks. And they're just very dismissive of her. So generally, any woman you see on screen is probably portrayed as a shrew. Oh, and then the housekeeper who comes in to interview at the very end when they're trying to find someone to replace Mrs. Doubtfire, she's all like, I don't do bathtubs, I don't do carpets, I don't do cleaning, I don't

do diapers. I don't do reading. I don't do, yeah. I'm illiterate. Yeah. Not a single woman in this movie gets to have any fun. Right. Except presumably off screen when Sally Field is fucking Pierce Brosnan. Oh my god.. Can we get what hit the cutting room floor in terms of they did like a full penetration.

I would watch Pierce Brosnan full penetration now. 2017. Oh, yeah. God. And I mean, Sally Field is a fun person. There's like a really amazing interview I saw her do on, I think it was Johnny Carson about when she was fucking Burt Reynolds. And it's very saucy. Ooh, Sally. Yeah. Love it. Yeah, it's just kind of not fair that you see all these fun male characters and then no female characters. Yeah, I guess It really is just

Robin Williams who's fun. There aren't any other fun guys in this. Harvey Fierstein is still a little bit of a nag, but he does have... He is more fun, but it is like, well, I'll give him that. There's a gay character in this movie. There are two gay characters in this movie. That's true. Both played by real-life gay

comedians. Hey! I love Harvey Fierstein so much. It's him and it's Scott Capurro, who was like a local San Francisco stand up. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Scott Capurro plays, as Daniel refers to him later in the movie, Aunt Jack. Aunt Jack. Right. Yeah. Who's like Harvey Fierstein's like, you know, not clearly articulated like partner in both business and love.

But there's a weird it's confusing because at the beginning harvey firestein says like make this guy look like a man and he was like like you would know and it's like wait what does that mean yeah because that seemed like a dig about how rarely he has sex but then it's like but they're partners together yeah that part of it was unclear but right well their their relationship seems mostly just professional until that line where. Yeah. Yeah. He says, Uncle Frank and Aunt Jack. Well, I remember my mom when I was very young explaining my two like I have two gay uncles and she explained their relationship to me based on Mrs. Doubtfire. They're like, you know, you know, Robin Williams brother and Mrs. Doubtfire. It's like that. And I i mean it must have registered i was like oh okay cool and that was interesting so that was i guess possibly the first gay couple i'd seen on screen or at least the most high profile example because that was what my mom went to yeah to explain a real life gay couple to me that's really interesting yeah i just weird because it's not done super

super well in the movie but it was i mean it was good enough for me to understand. I really am curious about the behind-the-scenes conversations about how to deal with gay issues in this movie because it seems like there were multiple opportunities for them to talk about it in a deeper way. And they really swerved around them. And I'm wondering where that came from because like it seems like they probably wanted Harvey Fierstein's character to be a drag queen like it seems logical that he would be like I'm gonna go to my brother who's a drag queen and does drag makeup to like as opposed to like the makeup artist as opposed to like yeah a movie industry makeup artist I guess that explains the latex and stuff but yeah but then later on at the very end of the movie the movie kind of ends with mrs doubt fire giving like on her own tv show giving this speech in response to a letter from a viewer about the viewers parents getting divorced and she gives this speech about how like the only thing that

makes a family is love and families can look like a lot of different things you know some families have one mom have one mom and some families have one dad and you're like but what also also two mommies also two mommies yeah and i just have to believe that there's a version where he says that and it's cut out i would love to see a first draft of this script yeah because i mean i i have to assume that they got notes on notes on notes yeah in 1993 of what they what people were comfortable saying what they and what they weren't but yeah that's really interesting about harvey firestein's character that would make way more sense i'd be interested in how that was portrayed in the book or if that character even appears in the book yeah i mean the book seems like that character even appears in the book. Yeah. I mean, the book seems like, when is the book set?

Oh, not sure. Was this like a modern update of the book? Because it... No, I think it was released in sometime in... Yeah, it came out in 1987. Oh, okay. For teenage and young adult audiences. Yeah, weird.

Oh, yeah, I guess that would make sense. Yeah. Well, speaking of the movie skirting around issues that could have been addressed, there are a few brief moments where Daniel, who is in costume as Mrs. Doubtfire, experiencing life the way a woman might experience life. Oh, yeah. But so much more commentary could have been made, and it just could have been better handled.

Like he gets hit on by that creepy bus driver. Gets hit on repeatedly by a creepy bus driver. Who's like not even like stops the bus and is like, are you going to drive the bus or are you going to like trap this woman in your bus? Like what are you doing? Yeah, at the behest of literally everything else going on. There's that. And then he gets off the bus and he's wearing heels and he says something like, oh, my back. If I find the misogynist bastard who invented heels, I'll kill him.

So there's that kind of throwaway line. Yeah, that's such a softball. Yeah. No, I'm saying, yeah, that's what I'm saying. And then there's a moment where he almost gets mugged in broad daylight crossing a street. A guy like snatches her purse and then he kind of like beats him off and gets it back but those are the only moments where there's any sort of even calls attention to the fact that that he's that he is maybe giving up some of his privilege in playing this character

right like what that might teach him about what women go through yeah this was like one of my big things i was taking notes about in the latter half of the movie. And I think that this is something that Tootsie does different in a way that works better for me. That's that I do have to rewatch Tootsie. I'm sure there's plenty there as well. But at no point does Daniel's character get really into the Mrs. Doubtfire character. It's always, like, a facade. It's never, like, where in Tootsie, as I remember, it's a lot of the character arc comes from really, like,

living as this female character and learning how to communicate as a woman and, like, all this stuff. And there's a real arc there where... I think so. Like, even, like, the climactic scene with the dinner where he's going back and forth between being a man and being a woman.

Like I feel like there's just like there's so much opportunity there to make a real comment and have your character learn a real lesson about something like that. But it just doesn't really happen. No, it doesn't. Yeah. I feel like the closest it comes is in the scene where Mrs. Doubtfire is having like a heart to heart with Miranda about the divorce. Yeah. in the scene where Mrs. Doubtfire is having like a heart to heart with Miranda about the divorce. And it's really Daniel probing her trying to find out like, come on, is there any hope for Daniel? And surely you must have tried to solve these problems. And she's like, yeah, he didn't want to talk about anything serious. And at a certain point, he turned me into this shrew and i didn't like who i was with him and it's like

he finally gets it like that's the point when you see like oh okay this character is learning something in this scene right that was upon re-watching one of my favorite scenes i think because you're like oh yeah you guys weren't a match like right yeah you guys weren't a match and also like you didn't have some of the necessary communication that you need to have about how you're going to raise your kids together and what you value in a responsible partner. And just another impressive way that the movie lets Sally Field's character be heard and understood.

Where it's like, as a kid, you probably don't lose much from the movie by not seeing that scene, but watching it as an adult, that's one of the scenes where it's like, you know, as a kid, you probably don't lose much from the movie by not seeing that scene. But watching it as an adult. Yeah. Like that's one of the scenes where you're like, oh, that's that's pretty impressive. Because I didn't remember that scene even happening. Of course, you probably tune it out as a scene with two adults. Right.

Or a scene where something goofy isn't happening or whatever. I remember the scene where Mrs. Doubtfire is vacuuming all wild and wacky. Well, because that was in the trailer. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of good trailer. I totally forgot about Stu's character altogether.

Really? Yes. And so that was a real pleasant, horny surprise for me. It was a real kamikaze horny moment. Yeah. I mean, this movie is tricky. I think that it's important to mention exactly how huge of a movie this was. This movie was the biggest movie of 93 behind Jurassic Park.

Wow. $25 million budget, $450 million at the box office. This movie was fucking massive. Which, again, does this movie do as well in 93 if they make more nuanced points? I don't I don't know. Probably not. If they didn't do anything, it wouldn't have tested that well with 1993 audiences. this movie went through before it made because even in 93 i feel like this movie seems like sort of like a risky movie to be making but it i mean it worked yeah i mean it is like post tootsie it's like you know this is like a very well-known movie trope it does seem like they were trying hard to like not alienate anyone but also to give some kind of wink at like the gay culture that made this movie possible so i don't know it's it's interesting well i talked to a few trans friends of mine

about this movie oh i'm very interested to hear this yes so um riley silverman who was on our batman episode cast i messaged her and i, I'm curious about your thoughts on movies where a cis character dresses up as or takes on the identity temporarily of a person of a different gender for the sake of the story. Other movies that come to mind are Tootsie, The Birdcage, Some Like a Hot, Shakespeare in Love. Is this inherently problematic? Is it okay as long as no transphobic comments or jokes are made? Something else? Thoughts? She responded and said, It's a gray area for sure. Some trans people will tell you it's inherently awful.

I think that's too broad of a brush. I do think with comedies there's a fine line, because so many of the jokes are based in the humor of presenting a male-seeming person as female. I sort of feel less bugged by these movies as a trans woman and more just as a woman, because so much of it is just really heightened gender role stereotypes. I feel like the fact that guy dressed as woman is meant to be demeaning feels so misogynist to me. And I said, totally, a lot of these movies and TV shows take the stance of a man being feminine. How humiliating. Yeah, there's like definitely some like, kind of transphobic, isn't it funny for a man being feminine how humiliating yeah there's like definitely some like kind of transphobic isn't it funny for a man to wear a dress type of humor but then there's also like

there was this whole school of like wouldn't it be weird if a dad played a role in his kid's life in a real way type of jokes too where you're like he doesn't know how to cook he doesn't know how to clean like he's not a functional adult and these are only roles he's willing to learn while not identifying as a man yeah like somehow it's emasculating if he does that while he's a man right i mean later on in the movie his gross apartment does you could argue that you know what he learns being mrs doubtfire informs his life as a kind of single father now because he cleans his place, he learns how to cook, but it's only after he has assumed the role of a woman that he bothered to do any of that. Yeah. To grow up, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And then I said,

the reverse of this, which the reverse of a male character dressing up as a female character, the reverse of that, like in Shakespeare in Love, where a woman dresses as a man, is empowering because then she gets to do a thing that she wants to do because people see her as a man and therefore she deserves respect. Yeah, like it's more of a radical act when women take on drag in movies

in order to accomplish something because it's like understood that her gender is the reason why she can't do it. And in movies like this, it's like, oh, no, it's yeah. Or like one of the guys. And it's like in movies like this, it's like, no, it's because a man feels entitled to a place like like in Tootsie and in this. It's like, no, men dress in drag to gain access to a place they feel entitled to that they aren't entitled to. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

She also brought up She's the Man, the Amanda Bynes soccer vehicle. Oh, yeah. And then Riley said, I think the bigger problem with this stuff is less the movies themselves and more how people equate them with the trans experience after the fact.

And I said, yes, that just shows the huge lack of understanding of what the trans experience is. And she said, yep, and it's part of the demonization of trans people along with trans panic horror films like Sleepaway Camp. And then that was pretty much the end of it. I was just like, thanks for your input. Goodbye.

Well, I'm glad you guys left it. Still friends. Yeah. I read a very interesting editorial that I found from around the time this movie came out from a drag performer named Charles Bush. He published an opinion piece in The Washington Post when this movie came out that pretty generally praises the movie in terms of presenting drag to a family audience in a way that he found to be generally respectful. But his main criticism was that it didn't do enough. Like, it appears respectful

just because there's not much being said. Where the passage that I highlighted was, although there are glimpses of a fully fleshed out characterization in Robin Williams' portrayal of a 60-year-old Scottish nanny, the humor of the film never rises above the mechanics of how he's going to get in and out of drag.

Which I think, yeah, like that's as far as it's examined. It's like, isn't the costume funny? And isn't it wild that he has to put this on and take, which is, which, you know, works. And I don't even think that that is like a necessarily like horrifying bad thing to see. It's a family comedy in 1993. But it's just like, yeah, there's a lot of. That's like 50 percent of the movie is him getting in and out of the costume. Yeah.

We could cut a half hour out of this movie. And we should because it's two hours and five minutes long. Yeah. I also spoke with another trans woman friend named Olivia. Asked her the same question. Just basically your take on this thing that happens in movies and television. And she said, hmm, an interesting thought. Offhand, I would say that as long as there's no real transphobia in Punchlines or the narrative, then it should be fine. I know that before I came out or even really knew I was trans,

I was drawn to narratives about gender swapping and that sort of thing. So I think even if there are some problematic elements that are inherent to the times they were made in, overall, their effects might be positive. So for her, it was like, oh, interesting that I can see a story about this, even if it's not really identical to the trans experience or anything like that. Yeah, there's a possibility for something positive to be gleaned from just like even watching gender be played with in any way. Right. Yeah.

Without the punishments being so like it's not being demonized. It's just being utilized in a kind of bizarre way. I will say there is like a really awful moment when Daniel's two older kids find out about the Mrs. Doubtfire ruse. And his son is like, it's a he-she. We got to call the police. Yeah. And thatuse. And his son is like, it's a he-she. We got to call the police. Yes. And that part of it, you're like, okay.

Also, is a child being raised in San Francisco really saying that? I don't know. Yeah. I certainly hope not. I don't know. Yeah.

I mean, the San Francisco element is like the biggest sort of like question mark on this. Is that a budget thing? Like, I don't understand. Well,

I think it was Robin Williams is from the Bay Area and he lived there. And I think whenever he had the opportunity, he would shoot things there so he could be with his family and stuff. And Zelda, his daughter, is one of the extras in the party scene. She's a little girl jumping on a couch. Oh, yay. Yeah.

Yeah, that scene was very uncomfortable. But apart from that and that moment that we mentioned before where Sally Field hangs up the phone being like, oh, you used to be a man. Yikes. Yeah. Those are the only two sort of blatantly transphobic moments that I. I mean, I'm even in a position to call it subtle or not, but there's definitely something problematic about like storylines that hinge on someone's true gender identity or sex being hidden as like this giant betrayal. That's like this trope in stories about trans people were like hiding the fact that they're trans is somehow a betrayal of the people around them or like and that's a big part of this movie but it is also it's like well no it's that you pretended to be a different person and you're right right but does play into like well of course everyone understands that because of course we all think that's bad you know yeah it can play into that a bit and and just uh kind of on a basic

level of you know like a man donning a woman's identity and then learns the lesson, whatever the lesson may be, whether it's this movie, Tootie, whatever. And then at the end of the day, okay, he's back in a hetero normative space. Like he returns to what everyone finds to be normal and acceptable. Well, he does continue to be Mrs. Doubtfire forever. On TV. On TV. On TV.

Yeah, on TV. Which, just taking away a role that a woman could have had in entertainment. Yeah. I don't know. Also, this movie was supposed to be filmed in Chicago, but ER said no. Oh, really? I remember when ER had enough power to just say, you can't film in this whole city. What?

Wait, ER said no? ER was filmed here. They said ER had a lease with the city during that time period. They just leased the whole city. What is the budget for ER? They could just lease Chicago? Yeah, that doesn't... I don't know.

It was supposed to be in Chicago, but then they relocated to San Francisco because he are. Emily, real quick about your point a few moments ago. Yes. So the song Dude Looks Like a Lady by Aerosmith. Oh, yeah. Was featured prominently in this movie. Featured prominently. And it had like a resurgence because of this movie because it was I think it first released in the late 80s.

And then, you know. Oh, I assumed that it came out around the same time. Interesting. No, I think it was 87. But don't quote me on that. That might be wrong. But so yeah, this song was like hugely popular, again, because of this movie. And I read a Vox article about Caitlyn Jenner's response to this song and basically being like, I love this song. And everyone's like, well, how about how it's very offensive to trans people? Because it's still saying dude yeah yeah i'll just read a quick paragraph from the article it says in general

the lyrics blur the line between being a trans woman a cross-dressing man or a man who simply has feminine traits the song also plays on the idea that trans women intentionally deceive men or are in disguise that they are for Lola as well by the Kinks. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm not super familiar with that song. Same song set up. And that they are unattractive or repulsive, as evidenced in one of the video's first scenes

where Steven Tyler recoils at the sight of a construction worker whose gender identity is purposefully unclear. And at one point makes Mix's pronouns going from, oh, she like it, in one line, to, oh, he was a lady in the next. Also, that plays on a roller coaster at Disney World. Yikes. Why does Aerosmith have their own roller coaster?

Like, I'm not that upset about it. And my mom practically creams every time we go to Disney World and she gets to go on the Aerosmith roller coaster. Wait, what episode did we first talk about that in? Was it the mummy? How my mom tried and failed to be an Aerosmith groupie and then became a groupie for this other band called the Beaver Brown Band which was like supposed to be my mom always she was like beaver brown was gonna be as big as aerosmith and nothing worked out for them they couldn't catch a break check out the beaver brown band they are terrible they aren't really bad my mom just followed them

around for a while oh boy she's a what a wild child can we talk about the scene between Miranda and Stu when he first comes to her office approaching her for basically like, oh, help me design this Airbnb. Nope, that's not what it's called. Just a B&B, a bed and breakfast. Yeah. Yeah. And here's how this scene plays out. He says, and the pretense of the scene is that they're just having a business meeting. She works at a design firm.

Her boss has told her, like, this guy asked for you specifically. So she starts describing what the look of this Airbnb, which is what I'm going to call it now. She's in San Francisco. She could be developing Airbnb. Right, right, right. She's just describing it. And he says, you've never looked better or you look better than ever and she ignores him and keeps talking business stuff and he says i've

been following your career again she barrels through and just keeps talking about the designs he says i'd love to get reacquainted again she ignores him keeps just talking business and then he says can we talk over dinner and that's what gets her to be like yes this is so nice which i think sends a dangerous message because to push past the no yeah she's ignoring her no does not mean no right also yeah like saying nothing doesn't like is a yes right yeah because like this could be considered sexual harassment in the workplace oh for sure she's like's like, you look good. Let's go to get dinner.

This is a test where I suggest doing one of my favorite movie tests, which is replace the conventionally attractive male with Steve Buscemi in this scene. How does it hold up? And this scene would read as very creepy. Yeah. Steve Buscemi time. Love it. Yeah, so for her character to not respond in the way you think she might because she's technically being harassed for her to be like, oh, yes, this is so nice. Let's start dating. Because, I mean, they have.

They have a history. They like dated in college. Yeah. And then also like Stu, you know. It's hard. What I'm saying is it's hard because Stu. Stu and his nipples. And I'm hard.

At the end of the day, I'm horny for Stu. I will say that is like there are two very refreshing things about the male characters in this movie, which is that like Robin Williams' character does not see his children as like a burden. He's like all he wants to do is spend time with them. And that's like not the most common thing. But then also, yeah, like Pierce Brosnan's like, cool, single mom with three kids. He's in.

He's in. There's a scene at the pool when like, when Mrs. Doubtfire overhears him having a conversation with the bartender that I kind of thought was gonna, like the bartender being like, you don't like kids. Why are you dating this woman? And you kind of think he's going to reveal, like, I actually don't care.

I'm going to steal money from her or something. Or just like, I'm going to love her and leave her. And he's like, she's changed my mind because she's that amazing of a woman and I love these kids. And you're like, this is kind of tight. I thought the same exact thing. I thought there was going to be like a reveal that he, because I didn't remember exactly what happened in that story beat.

And I was just like, oh, he's going to be revealed to be this like devious, sneaky, evil dude. But like, no, he's just a pretty nice guy. Well, a movie that this reminded me of that came out, I just looked at it, came out a year later. The Santa Claus comes out a year after Mrs. Daffy. Oh, with Tim Allen? Yes, with Tim Allen, who Santa dies.

And then Tim Allen is Santa because he witnessed Santa's death or something. Well, he's like maybe weirdly responsible for it. Whoever finds Santa's body is the new Santa. So that's the movie. But there's a lot of elements to the Santa Claus that is very

similar to Mrs. Doubtfire in that it's a recently divorced couple. The dad is taking on this new identity and there's a little bit of a body horror element to it of like what yeah they're both basically wearing fat suits they I mean they're both for sure wearing yeah and there is a stew character in the Santa Claus but it's it's done way less tastefully I think where Judge Reinald plays this character. Because I remember having a crush on him when I was little and my mom being like, why would

you like Neil? Also his name is Neil. Where Neil is just as lovely a new partner for this mother, but the narrative is constantly like basically calling him whatever you would call a cuck in 1994. Like this guy is not masculine. this guy's a dweeb he's their relationship is super desexualized yes whereas this is like no it's super sexualized like it's pierce brought you can't just there are some yeah there are some definite inversions of the tropes here because like usually these movies have something to do with like the dad working too hard and not

understanding what it is to be a father and not be like in a kramer versus kramer kramer versus kramer liar liar all of those movies are about like a dad who has to learn how to like be a dad and this is about the opposite it's like he has the warmth he has the fun he has the interest in his children what he needs to learn how to do is like be responsible and that's not usually yeah how that goes that is i didn't think of it that way in some ways it's like a way of elevating these like traditionally female characteristics of like nurturing and caring and rules and boundaries and stuff like that the emotional labor that women do in these relationships yeah and and uh sally field's character can do i mean she can't like literally

do everything but she knows how to do everything it's like she can delegate to she was the bread winner and she knew how to care for the kids like yeah so i mean she's given all the skills and is not the villain of the movie ostensibly but i do think that there's there is a subtext for kids that yeah she's the mean one yeah if there's any mean one in this movie yeah can we go back to the pool scene really quick because i just want to mention that there's a line where they're all like trying to get mrs delphi to like put on a bathing suit to get in the pool and she's just like no it would be like reenacting the Titanic. And I just wanted to mention that the movie does. There's a Titanic shout out. Titanic shout out.

It's true. It's true. Okay, so Mrs. Doubtfire. I will say, just to start wrapping, is that I was expecting to have a lot more issues with this movie than ultimately I did. Because I hadn't seen it in so long yeah that when you hear the premise and then you hear the year it's made you're like oh this is probably a fucking nightmare yeah it's not there's a lot of missed opportunities yeah there is some some stuff that is poorly handled but it's but unlike other sort of cross-dressing movies that came out around this time this movie

doesn't seem like it's setting out to make a joke of the gender play as much as it is like, let's give Robin Williams a vehicle. It just seems like it's really catered to like what he's good at and ways he can be funny. And it's not it doesn't seem like they're setting out to say anything about gender necessarily. Right. Which is where like the missed opportunity comes in. But it's also like they're not deemed. Yeah. Like there's five million hours

of robin williams improvised footage that hit the yeah like i shudder like i just it makes me exhausted just thinking of how much a lot of it freestyle goofing took place a lot of it too which is problematic is he's like appropriating other cultures oh yeah there's a couple racist things in here yeah um. Also very white. Very white movie. No people with speaking lines. Speaking lines? No people with People of color with speaking lines? Yes.

We see a number of women over 40, but they're all mean. Yeah. Also, Mrs. Doubtfire is technically a 60-year-old woman woman but she is not real and she is played by a 40-ish year old man yeah right which makes for an interesting discussion about the bechdel test so for me because my friend lisa when she watches this movie genuinely forgets that

they're the same person oh okay yeah she just just has such a hard time keeping track of that. And she just thinks they're different people when she watches it. That is very beautiful. It also makes for a very confusing watch. Yeah, like, why is this dinner so stressful? Well, for me, when I was trying to figure out if it passed the Bechdel test or not, I was not counting Mrs. Doubtfire's character as a woman, because even though that character is presenting as a

woman, it's not someone who identifies actually as a woman. So to me, Mrs. Doubtfire is still a man. Yeah, it's still a scene that a man can watch and identify with that character in some way. Yeah. I think that this would be harder to apply to a movie

like Tootsie, where the male character does get so deep into the female persona. But this one is, yeah, it's all pretty surface-y. Right. Yes. So because of that, I would say, I think the movie still does pass the Bechdel test. It does pass. It does. Yes.

There's a scene where the daughters are talking about what they did in school that day. Yes. I painted a picture of a bunny and a rainbow. And the teacher liked it. Yeah, yeah. Ding. Yeah. And there's also scenes where Nadia's like, why do we need a bunny and a rainbow. And the teacher liked it. Yeah, yeah. Ding! Yeah. And there's also scenes where Nadia's like,

why do we need a housekeeper? Yeah. Yeah. Shrewing out a little bit. Yeah. Why do we need a housekeeper anyway? Miranda says, this is all I need right now

because she's such a shrew. They're literally shrewing at each other. But then Lydia says, why can't dad do it? So then she brings up a dad and then it stops passing. But yeah, you would think there would be more, considering there are so many female characters in the movie between the two

daughters and Miranda and all the many other women who you see, maybe only peripherally. But yeah, there's only those kind of handful of scenes where, oh, there's another one where Miranda says, like, where were you guys? And they're like, we were upstairs doing our homework. Mrs. Doubtfire said we had to. but it's

just these very quick exchanges you think there'd be more for a movie that yeah you know has so many women in it but no a lot of them are very isolated from each other yes yeah that's true um does anyone have any final thoughts before we rate the movie i think we we talked about this a little bit but yeah the the soundtrack of this movie they're, the four main tracks that are not instrumental are Dude Looks Like a Lady, Walk Like a Man, Luck Be a Lady, Papa's Got a Brand New Bag. So whoever's choosing for this

music for this movie, grow up. Alright, so let's rate the movie on our nipple scale. We'll rate based on its portrayal of women specifically. Zero to five nipples. Oh, this is another tricky one. I get, oh, God, I don't even know.

Maybe a two and a half? Does it deserve more? Does it deserve less? That's exactly what I was going to say, I think. Okay, okay. I was going to go three. All right, well, we're still, we're in the ballpark. I just wanted to give Pierce Brosnan three nipples. Sure.

Yeah. Yeah, to me, it's like in the middle two and a half because well we already sort of mentioned the the missed opportunities to comment on more meaningful things you know gender roles and um i mean also we haven't talked about this but like child custody is one of men's rights activists biggest fucking war drum like issues and this movie does kind of come down on their side a bit of being like i didn't realize that it doesn't challenge yeah yeah it's like men's rights activists are always talking about how women are favored in custody battles and that's a proof that women don't have disadvantages in society and it's like give me a fucking break

give me a fucking tire iron so in that way like you know they didn't know that when they made this movie but also that is a little bit of a thing that's got splayed into here that's true and it is interesting that we see so much custody battle stuff as well i mean they lay a lot of pipe in those scenes. So it kind of makes sense. Yeah, that's true. That's when he explains, like, I need to see my kids every day. I've never not seen them every day.

And you're like, that's why he does the Mrs. Doubtfire thing. That's the first time we kind of hear that. Right. Even so, yeah, missed opportunities and things could have been handled better or differently. But yeah, I'd say like it's probably I mean, I haven't seen the movie White Chicks, but it probably does a better job when handling these issues. That's a hot take. I don't know for sure. I haven't seen White Chicks, but I'm sure this is better.

Thank you so much. I'm blown away. You heard it here first. White Chicks probably isn't a good movie some of this icons so yeah two and a half and

Mrs. Selner gets two of my nipples because I think she's underappreciated she's just doing her job she shows up on time no one appreciates her

yeah one thing I think is really interesting about the Mrs. Selner character is like she's so hostile to Daniel but when she meets Mrs. Doubtfire, you're like, oh, she's relaxed.

She's like, feels this immediate kinship. And you don't really, it's not, doesn't get explored that much. But you're kind of like, oh, I immediately see a different side of this character now that she's around a woman. It is nice to see that. Yeah. And I'm sure, like, in context of her job, she has to deal with shitty deadbeat dudes all the time. Like I understand the hostility. She's like, let me take your face cream and also rub it on my face.

Yeah. What a weird movie this is. Oh, and then my other half nipple I will give to Harvey Fierstein. He earned it, man. He really did. Yeah. I'll give it two and a half as well. I'll succumb to the two and a half as well i'll i'll succumb to the

don't we don't have to don't let us peer pressure you no i i i i'm with it i'm giving two and a half nipples to pierce brosnan to do with what he will uh but i i agree with what you're saying i think that most of this i think that this movie would have worked a lot better for me if we saw even one scene of Miranda connecting with her kids or just like seeing that just because she is a single mom who works does not just automatically mean that she's cold and can't connect with her kids. So if we saw that, I think that it would have been a higher higher rating but it's just mostly missed opportunities and kind of a little bit of lazy writing when it comes to writing female characters. Yes.

Grace Brosnan, however, does get all my nipples. Well, that sends an interesting message, Jamie. I'm sorry. Problematic. Yeah, you know what? I'm going to round it up to three nipples, I think. Okay.

Yeah. I was just giving it some slack for when it came out and also like how much of this movie is just about Robin Williams and not about the premise of the movie.

He really just tears through this movie kind of regardless of what was in the script probably. And he's like, give me a movie where I can do 40,000 voices. Yeah. Pretty much. And it's like, give me a movie where I can do 40,000 voices.

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. And it was like, you know, at the time it was a perfect vehicle for him. So yeah, I'll give it three nipples. And again, yeah. Sexualizing Pierce Brosnan and that being the only like sex in the movie I liked. Reparations, baby.

Yeah. The female gaze was catered to in this movie. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. Can you imagine like, like yeah just getting to be around pierce brosnan in 1993 there are a few moments in the movie where daniel usually dressed as mrs doubtfire will like kind of leer at a woman or like try to buy her a drink which is weird

because it's like you just experience a guy hitting on you and how uncomfortable that made you why would you then turn around and do that and do that thing yeah to a woman i think that that yeah harkens back to again of mrs doubtfire just being strictly treated as a costume by the narrative as well right yeah well you know he could have learned a little bit of a lesson but turns out he didn't it's also funny that in those scenes it's not like oh a woman bought her a drink so she's creeped out and not like oh a woman bought her a drink and so she's so relieved that it's not a terrifying man like yeah this is uh this is a lesser horror usually yeah they didn't track if i if an older woman was like here let me buy you a drink i'd be like yeah thanks yeah cool okay yeah i would accept that so quick i would just be like oh hell yeah wait what thank you all right well anyway uh emily thank you so much for being here thanks for having me

for bringing us this movie yeah where can people find you online do you have anything you'd like to plug i'm at mr emily heller on everything also i'm recording my second album on january 20th at curious comedy theater in portland So if you live in Portland please come to that. Also after I watched this movie my boyfriend made a lot of really funny Mrs. Doubtfire memes that I retweeted. So you can just go find them. Oh great. We will.

We will. Great. You can follow us at Bechtelcast on all the platforms. Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. You can go to our website Bechtelcast.com. You can go to our website, Bechtelcast.com. You can subscribe to our Patreon, patreon.com slash Bechtelcast. If you pay $5 a month,

These memes are really good. These memes are really good. Anyway, sorry. Yeah, if you give us $5 a month, you get access to two bonus episodes per month, and then you help us with our production costs. Oh, man, I can't wait. I can't wait to see these. You can find me on Twitter at Hamburger.

And you can find me at Caitlin Durante. Oh, my God. You guys got to check out these memes. The use of capitalization is very funny. I've never seen hello written out, but he nails it. It's one capital O, two lowercase s. Amazing. All right.

All right. Well, thanks for listening and bye. Bye. Bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption

that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What happens when a professional football player's career ends and the applause fades and the screaming fans move on? I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite.

For some former NFL players, a new faith provides answers. You mix homesteading with guns and church. Voila! You got straightway. They try to save everybody. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, voila, you got straight away. They try to save everybody. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me?

A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology. Swaps of different meds. But by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane, what we can do about it, and why we should care. Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.