The Bechdel Cast - Paddington 1 and 2 with Demi Adejuyigbe

Episode Date: May 23, 2019

Jamie finds Caitlin at a train station and brings her home so they can talk to special guest Demi Adejuyigbe about Paddington and Paddington 2!(This episode contains spoilers)For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast.Follow @electrolemon on Twitter.  While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @jamieloftusHELP Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello! Welcome to the Bechdelcast! Jamie, you got me a marmalade pillow. with the Bechdel cast. Hello. Hello. Welcome to the Bechdel cast. Jamie, you got me a marmalade pillow. You made it for me. I made you a marmalade pillow. And I got a second, I got a little companion over here. Please look after this girl.

This bitch got crafty. I did it. Thank you so much. I did it. Yeah. I'm also cosplaying as Paddington for the listeners at home, but I am going to take it off.

It was like truly a brilliant move for our audio podcast. It looks incredible. I mean, it's Caitlyn's birthday. Give it up for Caitlyn. Give it up for her birthday. It's her Jordan year. It's her Christ year. She's living in it.

Class of 2019, right? Really incredible stuff. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming to the Bechdelcast. Thank you. We're so excited for tonight. It's Paddington night. It's Paddington night. For Crying Out Loud.

Big night for us. My favorite. So quick survey. Clap if you've listened to the Bechdelcast before. Amazing. And then clap, don't be shy, if you are the person that has been dragged here by someone else yeah okay we've got we gotta hesitate yeah there's it's always a trickle it's always someone

who's like i'm a coward like uh cool well thank you for being here we're psyched that you're here out of curiosity is there anyone who has not seen The Paddingtons? Both. Don't raise your hand. You clap. It's an audio medium. Oh, wow. Not the show, not the movie. What's going on here?

Well, I had only seen the movie. I made you watch it on Christmas. On Christmas, yeah. So, you know, we're all on our own Paddington journey. That's true. That's true. I don't want to shame anyone. But round of applause.

Who has seen the Paddingtons? You've only seen one. That's okay. Yeah. Just hit yourself. That seems like a reasonable compromise. So the Bechtel cast, for the two people who are here and everyone at home we are a podcast that looks at popular movies from a feminist perspective using the Bechtel test as a jumping off point that's right and the Bechtel test if you're not

familiar requires that two female identifying characters have names. They're in the movie together. They have to talk to each other, and they can't talk about men or Paddington, unfortunately. Although I think any conversation about Paddington still passes the Bechdel test. I disagree. Okay. He is a male identifying Bechdel. It's my birthday, but fine.

Disagree. Can we demo the Bechdel test? Because I do have a Bechdel test relevant question. Okay. Hi, Caitlin. Hi, disagree. Can we demo the Bechdel test? Because I do have a Bechdel test relevant question. Okay. Hi, Caitlin. Hi, Jamie. Do you think Nicole Kidman's wig is more egregious in Paddington 1

or Big Little Lies Season 1? I have not seen Big Little Lies. If you've seen the poster, you've seen the wig. Okay. I'm going to go with Big Little Lies then because you've seen the poster, you've seen the wig. Okay. I'm gonna go with Big Little Lies then because everything about Paddington is perfect. Okay. Fair. Fair. At least

in Paddington, I'm like, it's supposed to look like it's a wig. Whereas in Big Little Lies, it's very distracting. Well, that was my Bechdel test. We did end up talking about Paddington. You ended up. Oh, well, Paddington won, I guess.

Paddington the movie, not Paddington the bear. Paddington the movie is genderless. Yes. Genderless icon, Paddington the movie. Should we bring out our guest? Yeah, I'm so excited. You know him from being a TV writer. He is the co-host of Punch Up the Jam podcast.

He's also been a previous guest of ours on our Star Wars Force Awakens episode. Give it up for Demi Adjuibe! Hi! What's up? Thanks for coming back. Thank you for having me back. Also, in defense of you saying that Paddington doesn't count for the Bechdel cast,

you can't talk about a man, right? Yes. He a boy. Oh, true. He's a little baby boy. We found a loophole. We have to start the podcast over. Great, great. So, Demi, thank you so much for being here. What's your history,

your relationship with the Paddington movies? Oh, wow. I feel like you just asked me, Grandpa, tell me a story about the war, and I'm like, oh, Paddington. But like a really wonderful war that we all love so much. This is how Titanic starts, and I just leave

out everything after the sex. I'm like, no, that didn't happen. It's just a nice boat ride. Basically, Paddington, people were freaking out about Paddington 2. And I was kind of like, okay, well, everyone seems to really unironically love it. I'm going to go see it. And I went to see it with a bunch of friends. And then I was like, wow, that was a delight.

But I haven't seen Paddington 1. So I went home the next day, watched Paddington 1 because it was on Netflix. And then I was like, I think you texted me, going like, have you seen Paddington? I was like, no, but I want to see it again. And we went and saw Paddington 2 in theaters. I think it was my second time, your third time at the time. Yes.

Yes. And I was just like, this movie's very good. Yeah. It's very good. It's just so pleasant. Didn't you get kicked off of Twitter for a Paddington face? Oh, yes. Yeah.

For defending his honor. This is the war part of the story. Basically, a friend of mine, Ben Kahn, was tweeting one day that he was jokingly saying, Well, guys, just finally saw Paddington 2. And I got to say, that bear, kind of a naive dipshit. And I know fair point? no half a fair point he's naive

but we love him for it he's not a dipshit no so basically I responded to him saying as a joke I just said I will fucking kill you Benjamin and Twitter don't like that so someone basically started like abusing the report system and got me kicked off.

And then everyone was like, no, hey, that's not how it works. And Twitter was like, yeah, okay, sorry. Well, I'm glad you're back on Twitter. Oh, me too. A better victory. Jamie, what's your history with Paddington? You harassed me until I watched it on Christmas.

Yeah. I did remember I watched, there was a TV me until I watched it on Christmas. Yeah. I liked, I did remember I watched, there was a TV series that I watched when I was younger and I read some

of the books. It wasn't like, it was weird. I was more attached to Babar when I was a kid. Oh. Any Babar heads

out there? You don't know him as Baybar? Baybar? I don't, well, no. Is it Baybar?

I think it is Baybar, but. Really? I don't know. Oh, I Is it Baybar? I think it is Baybar, but. Really? I don't know. Oh, I just looked at someone like that. I was trying to cross check. I feel like this is a moment when I realize, why did I confidently correct you mid-phrase? This is like when one time I thought I knew how to say

Ewan McGregor's last name. Oh my God. Wait, last name? It's Ewan. Ewan? Yeah. That doesn't make any sense. But you kept saying Ewan. Ewan. I can say Ewan McGregor's last name? Oh my god. Wait, last name? It's Ewan. Ewan? Yeah. That doesn't make any sense. But you kept saying Ewan.

I could say Ewan. But I said it really confident. I was like, Ewan McGregor. You're like, it's Ewan. He was named by Arnold Schwarzenegger, so you were like, Ewan McGregor. Ewan McGregor. You know, there's no way to know how Babar, Babar.

I don't even know who Babar is. Is Babar a bear? Oh, elephant in a suit, baby. He's a crown. British elephant suit, crown, whatever you want. Is he British? I think he's British, yeah. I'm learning things.

Anyways, we've got to get that. Where's the social justice Babar franchise? Good question. We've got to make it happen. So I harassed you into watching the movies. Both of them, back to back on Christmas. And I did love them. And then I watched them back for this.

And I still love them. It hasn't been that long. Yeah. What about you, Caitlin? Well, I... You know that I love these movies. I saw the first one, not right when it came out, but I would say like late 2015 into 2016, I think.

Oh, so pretty early. Yeah, I saw Paddington 2 in theaters four times, and I just love it so much. It makes me cry. Even when I'm watching it, the parts that don't make me cry, I just think about the parts that do make me cry, and then I cry anyway. So the act of crying through Paddington has become like a sort of meta exercise in that

crying is so much a part of it that you have to think of either the fact that you are crying or the lack of tears. Yes. Yeah. I appreciate when a movie tells me when to cry via music. Oh. Because sometimes you're like, oh, wait, I'm heartless. How do I know?

And then the movie goes like, and you're like, oh, I'm crying. Oh, no. Yeah. That was Avengers Endgame. I didn't know what the fuck was going on. Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

500 characters I'd never heard of. So, wait, did you watch Endgame having not seen any of it? I'd seen like three out of 20, and then I went to see Endgame, and I was in. I was weeping. But only when I was told. That is just, it's, I feel like I'm getting off on a different thing here, but I'm like, that is fascinating. Because I feel like even with three, you kind of get it all.

You understand it. I mean, it's easy to be like, oh, they're friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Should I do the recap? Let's do it. So I'm going to recap both movies in a slightly less detailed way than I normally do, because

we have a finite amount of time for the show. And we've got two movies to talk about. Streamlined. Recap. Here we go. So Paddington won. It's about a little bear. I'm already crying.

Go on. He emigrates to London from darkest Peru. He's trying to find a new home after an earthquake destroys his home that he lives in with his Aunt Lucy and Uncle Pastuzo. He goes looking for the explorer who his aunt and uncle had met when the explorer went on an expedition to Peru. And this explorer discovered that the bears can talk.

And he introduces them to marmalade. And he teaches them English. And he is clearly actively trying to colonize Peru. Yeah, he's a colonial man. But then he doesn't. So we love him. He is clearly actively trying to colonize Peru. He's a colonial man. But then he doesn't, so we love him. He thought about it, but then he's like, they can speak English.

I won't colonize them. He's bad. So anyway, the little bear arrives in London, and people aren't as welcoming as he thought they would be. But eventually, a family finds him at Paddington Station. Which is basically the Ellis Island of this movie. Right. It's like if everyone who came to Ellis Island was named Ellis Island.

Yeah. And this is the Brown family. It's Mrs. Brown who names him Paddington, Mr. Brown, their kids, Judy and Jonathan, and then a relative, Mrs. Bird, who we meet a little later on. Is that Ron Weasley's mom? Yes, that is Julie Walters. Yeah.

Also in Mamma Mia. Yeah. And Mary Poppins Returns. Oh, good for her. What a career she's had. A salute to Julie Walters? Yes. What a strong four years she's had.

So the family takes Paddington home, and they promise to help him find this explorer. Important to note that Mr. Brown is pretty racist towards bears. He's a full-on xenophobe. I think, honestly, in the Brown family, in the first movie, you're like, the Brexit vote is split in this household. Yeah. It makes

you wonder why Mr. and Mrs. Brown are married. I wonder this whole franchise why she doesn't dump his ass. Yeah. Oh my god. This movie is the cute version of Green Book. Because in that same sense, Linda Cardellini is like, oh, my husband's throwing...

Am I spoiling Green Book for anyone? Just kidding, it spoils itself. Basically, he throws away two glasses that two black construction workers drink out of, which is just a vile act of racism. It's like, they touched this, I can't have it in my home. And she just looks at it in the trash and goes like, oh, my husband.

She's just like, oh, racism's such an inconvenience. I'm wasting so many glasses. By the end, he learns to love the man. Just like Mr. Brown. Well, Sally Hawkins, I mean, in that relationship, she must be addicted to emotional labor, because that's all that

is for her, is her being like, in the first movie, she's like, she must be addicted to emotional labor, because that's all that is for her. It's her being like, in the first movie, she's like, please don't be racist. In the second movie, she's like, please don't hate people who go to prison so much. And every time Mr. Brown gets to do the cathartic speech at the end and be like, I figured it out. I shouldn't be racist. And we're like, yes. She's just got to be like, ha ha, yeah, yes. Yep, you did it. Good job. So one of the reasons that Mr. Brown isn't a big fan of Paddington

is that he does mess up their house a lot. Because he's a clumsy little bear. He can't help it. He's cute. The allegory falls away at this point, by the way. Yeah. And then meanwhile, Nicole Kidman is in the movie with a wig nicole kidman and nicole kidman's wig please don't forget they are they are credited separately yes yes yes yes the

wig got higher billing yeah the wig is union baby she finds out that this little bear is in town and then she goes looking for him because she wants to kill and stuff him. And then there's also a racist neighbor, Mr. Curry, who's trying to help Nicole Kidman because he also hates bears. Meanwhile, Paddington and the Browns continue to try to track down the explorer

with the help of Mr. Gruber and Paddington's hat. That leads them to the Geographer's Guild, and then they learn the name of the explorer Montgomery Clyde so then Paddington is about to go like find Montgomery Clyde but then he overhears Mr. Brown being like Paddington sucks and he's putting our family in danger and then Sally Hawkins is like, kind of. So Paddington leaves and we cry. Then he goes to the last M. Clyde in the book. And it's the same house that Nicole Kidman lives at. And her wig. And her wig.

She kidnaps him. And it turns out that she is the daughter of the explorer. And she is bitter that her late father refused to collect the specimen of this species of bears who can talk. Woman in STEM with daddy issues? Man. Home run. So then the Browns go to rescue Paddington

because they realize how good this wee bear is for the family, and then Paddington almost dies. But then the Browns save him and they bring him into their family as one of their own. The end. Of the first one.

Of the first one. Yes. And now on to Paddington 2, the best movie ever made. The allegory's back. Yes. A different one It disappears for a few calendar years

Alright, the first act's set up It's gonna be just like this thing Alright, but what about when he's making sandwiches Alright, it's a different movie then I like when I want to imagine the Paddington 2 pitch Of someone busting down the door They'll be like, this is an indictment

Of the prison industrial complex And they're like, this is an indictment of the prison industrial complex. And they're like, yeah, sure. Hello, listeners. It was at this point during the live show that something happened to our recording. The connection was lost. Our live show curse indoors. Yes. But it was only for five minutes.

So we only lost five minutes of audio. At this point, the assassins came into the room. So we were fighting them off. Hugh Grant came in and was like, no. Very showy. Yeah. So here's what you missed. Yes.

So we're just going to, we're in the studio now. We're filling in the gaps. Mind the gap. Mind the, oh. Because Britain. Because of British. Love it. Yes.

Okay. So here's the recap to Paddington 2. Paddington has been living with the Browns for a few years now. They all love each other. Everything is great until Paddington is in the wrong place at the wrong time. A likely story. Just kidding. He's innocent. So typical of Paddington. And he is accused of stealing a pop-up book of London, which is the same book that he was saving up money for to buy as a gift for his Aunt Lucy. Yes, from Mr. Gruber, because he wants to give something to Aunt Lucy for her birthday. And I also had a birthday. Icon, paying it forward. We find out that the actual thief is their new neighbor, Phoenix Buchanan, played by Hugh Grant in the role of a lifetime.

Really incredible. Seeing Hugh Grant in this role made me think about how he should have been Count Olaf in a series of unfortunate events. He's doing basically the same character and doing circles around Patrick Harris and Jim Carrey. Yes. Yes. same character and doing circles around you know patrick harris and jim carrey yes yes so phoenix buchanan stole the book because it turns out that it's a treasure map to madame koslova's fortune that phoenix is also planning to steal doy but paddington is tried convicted and sent to prison very quickly this all happens and honestly i was just like damn parliament is so much more efficient than the

American justice system. In America it would have been a three month long televised event. Right. But there's just a female judge is like fuck you go to jail. No it's a female lawyer in Paddington too but it's the

male judge who gets his head buzzed because of Paddington. Yes yes anyway so he gets sent to prison for Phoenix's crime and the Browns work to clear Paddington's name and eventually Mrs. Brown figures out that it is Phoenix Buchanan who's the real thief but by that time a few of the other prisoners have convinced Paddington to break out of prison with them but not before Paddington has reformed of prison with them, but not before Paddington has reformed the prison and made a lot of baked goods there. Right. I do love the prison reform message.

I will say when they escaped prison, we don't know what they're guilty of. And it may, in fact, be very dangerous that certain prisoners might be rapists and murderers. Literally, like, at least one shouldn't have gotten out of jail yeah there's plenty of false over convictions prison industrial complex is strong yes but at least one there's like seven of them i'm like at least one person really should have stayed i'm hoping they were all there on like minor marijuana possession charges yeah oh that's nice yeah they just like live somewhere where it's not quite legal and they got busted like three years too early. I have no idea if marijuana is legal in

the UK or not. Oh, listeners. English listeners, let us know. Are you high right now? And if so, is it legal? So they, the prisoners have convinced Paddington to break out with them because they've convinced him that it's his only chance to clear his name. Right. So Paddington to break out with them because they've convinced him that it's his only chance to clear his name. So Paddington escapes and then he realizes that they've lied to him. So he goes off on his own and he contacts the Browns and they tell him to meet them at Paddington Station. Wouldn't you believe it? Classic. Because that is where the Koslova traveling fair is about to leave from. And that is also where they think Phoenix Buchanan is about to steal the fortune from. I love a third act. Everyone's got to be in this location at this time.

So they find him. They're chasing after him on various trains. And they all finally stop Phoenix. But then Paddington almost dies again. I mean, the train scene is incredibly done. I'll finally stop Phoenix. But then Paddington almost dies again. I mean, the train scene is incredibly done. Like, I think for everyone at the live show, it was evoking something a little bit different. For me, it was the bye-bye-bye music video.

Sure, sure. For me, it was the end of Back to the Future 3 and also the beginning of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. For me, it was really just the bye-bye-bye music video. Beautiful. And then Mrs. Brown saves Paddington with the help of the prisoner buddies who come back for him. And then at the very end, the Browns and the whole neighborhood get together and they surprise Paddington by bringing Aunt Lucy to London to see him. And we cry. We cry so much. It's so beautiful.

Oh, I love this movie so much. He respects women so much. He does. Feminist icon Paddington. Can we make that shirt, please? I guess so. I feel like he doesn't really. I'm sorry.

You guess so? I mean, he's not really doing. He's not out there at the protests. He's not out there yet. I, you know. He's not yet. I think Paddington does the bare minimum, which we appreciate. The bare minimum? The bare, there's the shirt. Paddington doing the bare minimum.

But that's not true. He does the bare maximum. Can you say that on the shirt? I think that's a good compromise. Once Paddington shows up at a rally, then, you know, he'll achieve feminist icon status. Let's put it to a vote on our Twitter. We're going to have the different design options and then let's let the listeners decide. Yeah. Well, you know, they're going to be like, I like bear. God damn it. I don't want to make this shirt. I'll make it. I'm not a very good artist, but

I'll do all for Paddington. I will design this. design this okay cool so we have to go to a quick break and then we will come right back definitely caruana galizia was a maltese investigative journalist who on october 16th 2017 was murdered there are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price.

Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? Like what's the history behind bacon-wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejon. Our podcast, Hungry for History, is back. Season two. Season two.

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very beginning of our discussion got cut off, but hopefully we'll find a way to smoothly transition back into the live show. is a use of what I view to be kind of a trope-y use of sudden maternal instinct syndrome in regards to the Paddington character. That will work as an effective transition back into the live show, which we see in a million movies of like the second that Mary Brown sees Paddington, she's like, we have to help him. I am and then in paddington too it kind of even doubles down on that where like aunt lucy sees paddington the little cub and is like we're not moving because i'm mommy like it's it's it's fairly intense yeah i choose to see all of that as Mary and Judy and Mrs. Bird just being very active

participants in the story. But I will say, I mean, it is like worth noting that we don't see any male character have that inherent caring. Which I wish

they're too busy being racist against Patton. I will also say that the one time where you do see that sort of caring instinct from Mr. Brown is sort of shown as a joke where it's like they go into the hospital with a motorcycle and he comes out and it's like, oh, everybody stay away.

Stay away. I'm a protective person. Oh, yeah, that's true. But he doesn't feel that towards anyone who is not his own children. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Like he would never extend that caring to.

So it's like caring. And it's like I don't even know where I fall on this, but it is definitely a trope relegated to women of like something turns on inside of you and you'll just pick up a bear like you'll just do it no i agree wearing a hat hell yeah like we're bringing it home this is my son now like no i see what you're saying and yes i i agree and i would argue even that like mrs bird ends up being like a caregiver, not necessarily so much as a maternal figure, but she spends most of the movie cleaning up after Paddington. So that's, you know,

she's forced into a caregiver type role as well. But what I like about Mrs. Brown is that we know what she does for a fucking job. That never happens. I was worried that, and I don't know if this is true in the books like uh if if there are any book heads anyone here read a fucking book before uh me either uh but i i think it's cool that like she is given a career we know what it is the entire

franchise it's not added as like an afterthought which because we're kind of given this like nuclear family like isn't really a given for for the mom to even have a job much less we know what it is or like how it affects their lives sure so that was even in the in the second movie her job lends itself to a skill that actually becomes pretty important to the story because she draws descriptions of the different criminals who are showing up and which is what i think is one of the movie's great strengths is that all the female characters who we get to know who are significant to the story are just that they are significant to the story uh because they all have skills or interests or a job that actually like contributes to the events of the story.

In the second one especially. For sure. In the second one, because there is like, we are always looking out for Mary Sue kind of tropes, where in a lesser movie that isn't Paddington 2, Sally Hawkins being able to dive into the ocean or whatever body of water it is and like almost release paddington would be like how the fuck does she do that but that's set up at the

beginning of the movie that she's been practicing she's been swimming a lot and the same is sort of lent to um judy it has has this interest in journalism that's set up at the beginning of the movie that becomes useful to helping figure out what's happening to Paddington. I wish that in the second movie, Mary and Judy should have started a serial-style podcast. Oh! Where's this fucking bear at?

That's the name. Did Adnan do it? Did Paddington? Yeah, that would be fun. Everything that we're describing probably just sounds like how storytelling should work, you know, like the female characters contributing to the events of the plot. But if you've ever heard our show before, you know that that was actually pretty rare.

Yeah, you get to do one thing and it's out of nowhere. Right, exactly. But in this movie, like all the female characters, pretty much every step of the way throughout both movies, are contributing to the story and have skills and interests that pay off in some significant way. For sure. Here's a question. Do you think the maternal instinct that comes from the women in this franchise is sort of done that way because they need the women to be the voice of reason

and all the men are like the buffoon sort of in a way that it's like if the women are the voice of reason they have to find the solution and because the plot is save this child bear it feels like being the voice of reason is sort of coming off as maternal i like where you're thinking. I still think that it's like, this movie accomplished, like this whole franchise gets to be so nuanced in so many ways. And that's like one of the few ways

where it didn't do it, where like the men are so cartoonishly uninterested in helping a helpless child in both of them that it almost feels unrealistic or- See, I don't even know if that's that cartoonish because I mean, this is where sort of like the allegory comes in. Well, yeah.

For especially Paddington 1, where like Mr. Brown is just behaving the way a lot of people would behave to, you know, an immigrant or an outsider or someone who's been othered in a way that is unfortunately pretty realistic for how a lot of people behave that's fair i i just i do think that like the the maternal instinct turning on like a light switch and like

just sort of being something that is integral to the plot like there's i don't know like there's a more nuanced way to accomplish that because it happens in so many movies of just like the man doesn't have the time for it and then the female female character is like, no, we have to. And it's like, that is a good thing. That is a thing that all people should be capable of doing. But it does just sort of seem tropey to relegate it to her in a completely un-nuanced way. But you're right. The fact that it is an allegory kind of does shift that dynamic a little bit. I sometimes feel like when people do that in movies where it's just like,

oh, the women have to be the voice of reason the entire time, it's because they're afraid that when people watch movies and see a woman being funny or even just flawed in any way, they'll be like, well, we can't do that. People will hate us for it. We're showing a woman that's not perfect, and it's like, that's not the problem. Yeah. That's why there's like, that's not the problem. Yeah. That's why there's so many

Mary Sue characters too. It's just like, most times there's Mary Sue characters, I feel like it's written by guys who are feeling insecure about like, oh, I don't want girls

to hate me. Let me just write a boring ass character that gets everything right. Right. And that's not necessarily these characters, but this movie

is written by men. Yeah, it's a good movie. So me, with no mothering instinct to speak of, because, like, if there is, like, an overly maternal character or, like, a female character is characterized in such a way that, like, she just, she's like the mommy

who has to be the mommy to everyone. Like, that definitely is something that I tend to notice. And, you know, depending on that i tend to notice and you know depending on how severe it is will you know annoy me that amount for these i see like mrs brown i guess just as being more compassionate than maternal but again i just can't criticize this movie so i don't know i mean it tips a little bit that way for me. But it's like not to the point where I, I mean, the good thing is, even though I feel like that's present, there's still so much more to that character that we know about. Especially like between movies one and two, I feel like there's an even more of an improvement on how much like care is given to the female characters in terms of, they're always active participants,

but in like how much we know about them, where in the first movie, Judy's storyline is mostly like, she has a crush on a boy. And at the end, she introduces the boy to her mom. Right. And then in the second one,

I feel like, and I hope that, you know, all franchises can kind of move in this direction in a lot of ways of like, oh, maybe that was a little bit lazy. And like, okay, let's give her an interest. Let's give her... She basically starts Jezebel at the beginning of this movie.

It was like, she's like, she starts an all-female newspaper. Yeah, no boys allowed. And yes, is it implied that it's because she like felt sad about a relationship ending? Sure. But that's also why I started doing comedy, so whatever. That's what she does in the third one.

Right. She starts doing stand-up. I started to write a note being critical of that, and I'm like, Jamie, you fucking did that. But it is cool. Between movies one and two, it seems like the writers were taking notes as time was going on. Even in the first one and two, it seems like the writers were taking notes as time was going on.

Even in the first one, though, it's set up early on that she has an interest in language. And it's like she's learning Chinese and she wants to open a small business. She's going to be a business owner. And then that pays off because Paddington starts teaching her bear. And then she's able to communicate with him in bear and ends up helping to save his life because she's like oh we need to go to the roof he's going for the roof so um at least like she's equipped with that skill and that interest that again like you know contributes to the events of the story um in both movies we get like an overview of the brown family where it's basically like

paddington relaying to his aunt luc Aunt Lucy just who the Browns are and what they do. And I was kind of reminded of what happens in the Royal Tenenbaums. The West, yeah, it was like the West Flammable Flam movie. Yeah. West Flammable Flam? The what?

The West, yeah, the West Flammable Flam movie. Sounds like a prescription. That movie that is every frame is yellow, that one. Yes. So in the Royal Tenenbaums, which we talked about Sounds like a prescription. That movie that is every frame is yellow. That one. So in the Royal Tenenbaums, which we talked about on the show, there's this voiceover narration, and it's like, look at all the boys. Here's all the things they've accomplished.

Here's all the things they like to do, and here's how awesome they all are. It's even visually similar, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then for the female characters in the royal tenenbaums it's like here's all the boys that she fucked at the end so like that's all we know about that and that again does happen to like a small degree with like judy because it's like she has a crush on tony uh and that's right you like wish that the information was reversed but at least the

you're right like the thing with like okay there's at least more to her than like likes a boy yeah likes a boy and learning a language is better than i was doing at 12. should we just talk about sort of the allegorical elements of these fine movies i mean where to begin yeah yeah sure let's do it so the first one paddington one is essentially an allegory for uh an immigrant's experience i think it's a good allegory except that i think the the problem might be that this could have given visibility to an actual brown or black person who is an immigrant and seeing their story. And instead it's a bear and then everyone else is white.

Wait, are you saying that instead of Paddington being a bear, he should have been a... I'm not... A black... Saying that, necessarily. Because if your take here is I can't criticize anything about this movie,

however, Paddington should have been a black child. An indigenous Peruvian boy. Yes. I don't know if I'm communicating my point very well. I see what you're saying. I mean, where there could have been visibility to an immigrant who is from Peru, who would probably be a

brown person, instead it's a bear who speaks the Queen's English. Right. I mean, I think that that, I mean, for this franchise, I don't know how possible it is to make that edit. Right. Without it becoming a very different movie.

But there is, I mean, and then there is such like a history with, I mean, we can go straight up Sally Hawkins movie specifically with other characters being, you know, like subbed out by like animals or by creatures. And there's like such a history of that happening, which I feel like this is one of the gentler examples of that because you know you can extend that allegory to like early monster movies and like a lot of shit like that where i don't know yeah there's been there's been a lot of like interesting i've got i got some quotes

oh sure oh please there's been a lot of like interesting stuff written uh about how paddington is like an other creature that is representing a different group of people. Mm-hmm. I got some hot facts. Jamie's hot facts. Hot facts. Hot facts with Jamie. So Paddington has been a political symbol

for over 60 years now. Wow. So since, or almost 60 years. Sorry, my facts are bad. But the author of the original books has always used Paddington as a political symbol. As recently as 2009,

Paddington was like the voice of, like his character was used in a campaign to end the arrest and detention of hundreds of child asylum seekers in prison-like conditions in the UK. Like he's a huge like a huge UK immigration advocate. So, I mean, an icon for a very long time. And I was very curious about, in the adaptation,

how much of the intent was in the book versus how much was translated. But he was written that way to be, because the author of the books had been a Holocaust survivor. And there were a lot of displaced children narratives that went into the writing of this book. So I thought that was interesting. One of the things that also, like the only criticism from the original creators of Paddington,

the only criticisms of the movie were the relationship between Paddington and Mr. Gruber. Because apparently, also originally, the fact that Paddington is from Peru was a suggestion of an editor. He was originally from darkest Africa. And then they were like,

how about darkest Peru? And it's like, still fucking weird. Still fucking racist, but sure. So originally, the Mr. Gruber-Paddington relationship was written to be two immigrants to London who were bonding. And so the fact that a white actor was cast as Mr. Gruber kind of irked the original creators because they would always have tea at Eleven's. And I guess that that was something

that Paddington had done in Peru. That was brought to London. And that was supposed to be their connection. And that was lost in translation in the movie. I see. I literally just watched this movie yesterday. But can you help me remember who Mr. Gruber is? Jim Broadbent.

He's the guy who has the antistore. Okay, yes, right. Yeah, no, that does feel like a role that they want you to believe is like someone who's not from, like with the accent and everything, I think they wanted to get the credit of it being like a foreigner,

but not actually give the role to a person who wasn't from the UK. Yeah, yeah. So that was like the one thing that, and I should, sorry, the editor of Paddington was a Holocaust survivor. The writer was not, but they were the two people who shaped the character. I see.

And so that was their one note, which is like better than, you know, most adaptations. Sure. Oh yeah. That's Jamie's hot facts. I love it. I mean, it's no cat facts with Caitlin, but it was pretty good. Are there cats in these movies? There's no cats.

Damn. Harsh. There's a dog in the second one, but. Harsh. Actually, there's a dog in both of them. There's no cats. Damn. Harsh. There's a dog in the second one. Harsh. Actually, there's a dog in both of them. There is a dog. Yeah. The dog scene in the first one almost made me cry yesterday.

I don't know why. When he picks it up and takes it on the escalator. Yeah. The escalator scene. Just before that, the part where he steps his foot on the escalator and pulls his leg back, I just started being like, ah, he's so afraid right now. Yeah. I don't know why.

And then also the scene at the end where he's climbing up with the vacuums and then like one of the vacuums stops and he just starts falling towards the fire i was like oh my what what the fuck are they doing i don't know what place i'm in but i have multiple points in both of these movies for like i kept it because we had like adington bear toy at my house when I was little, and I kept thinking that he was a toy and not an actual bear, which at certain points would make a big difference. Yeah. But I kept forgetting that he was, in fact, an actual bear who came from Peru.

Yes. Yeah. I guess I want to talk a little bit more about each of the main female characters who we get to know, starting with Mrs. Brown, because she is kind of largely responsible for getting the story going. Like she's the one who approaches Paddington at the station. She's the one who keeps challenging her racist husband to like say, let's just help him. Like it's just for the night. Dump him. Yeah, why are they married?

They have nothing in common. Doesn't make any sense. For Judy and Jonathan. And then in movie two, in Paddington two, it's Mary who is especially hell-bent on trying to figure out who the actual thief is. She's doing all the drawings. She goes full Sarah Koenig.

She's got a fucking pin board. She's like, this means this, and this means this. And you're just like, holy shit. She breaks and enters into Phoenix's house. She really goes full investigative reporter. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I like how active she is and how much of a driving force she is

to keep the narrative going in both movies. In both times, in spite of her husband, she is continuing to advocate for this bear who becomes her bear son. In the first one, she's like, no, I love this bear. Also, he should be our son. And then the second one, she's like, he's our son now. Please stop being rude to prisoners.

The target moves each time. It really does. Where Mr. Brown, you can see he does inch forward as the plot goes on in each movie, which is encouraging. One thing I do not love about that character is that he always gets a cathartic speech and moment for making a very basic human decision where he's like, actually, racism is bad.

And every time a white guy says that, they get like a standing o and this movie kind of gives that to him yeah and this book it wins an oscar uh and kind of the same thing in the second one he has like a little cathartic speech and every time that happens you're just like yeah well your your wife has been saying that for 500 fucking years. Yeah, well, Jamie, men need to redeem themselves all the time. There is a moment in Paddington 2 where Mr. and Mrs. Brown are sneaking through Phoenix Buchanan's house. And then they go up to the attic and they see all of the costumes. And then Mr. Brown is like, we were right.

And then Mrs. Brown is like, we? Right. Because it was only her and he's trying to take credit for her work. Yeah, that felt like a little, yeah,

a little bone thrown. Sure. I guess, I don't know, I just like that Mrs. Brown challenges her shitty husband all the time. it's true.

But then there's a moment in like Paddington 1 where toward the end they're in the then there's a moment in like paddington one where toward the end they're in the natural history museum and he's like someone has to go out this window to save paddington and that someone is going to be me and he does this like display of like kind of traditional like macho heroism yeah and then mrs brown is like oh henry you're such a man and like she gets like all weak at the knees which i felt was unnecessary but then that doesn't really happen in paddington two that has been to the second one instead mr brown is like i'm having a midlife crisis

and i'm getting old and I wasn't promoted at work. So it's actually about his fragile male ego. Well, there's also a little, to his credit, like,

that he, there's like a little tiny, like, he's passed over because he's older and that is the first time he's been

marginalized in his life. Yeah. And it blows his fucking mind. He becomes such an, he's like, wait a second, I can't have what i fucking want and then it become and then he like is signing up for yoga classes which i thought was funny right yeah uh judy we talked about her sort of like linguistic skills in the first movie and

then like her interest in journalism in the second one i like how that character grows yeah like she and and i feel like she and she might even be like a little more integral to the plot than jonathan is but they're about equal and jonathan in the first one like i in the first one i was like well why do we know about judy's romantic interest and not jonathan but he's younger and then. But then as he ages up, we don't really find out that much about, we don't get his equivalent of Tony, we get J-Dog.

Right. J-Dog might be his equivalent of Tony. That's true. He's like, listen, I've hit puberty. He's trying to impress this kid, but what to what end? They bump fists at the fair yeah and spud bounce yeah they say spud bounce but what if what is that what if it's not he's trying to

play cool to this guy that he wants to be cool with but it's like he wants to find common ground with this boy that he has a crush on i hope so oh i mean. Where is that fanfic? Paddington 3. Nice. Paddington is voiced by queer icon Ben Whishaw. True. Of Cloud Atlas fame. Of Cloud Atlas.

Oh, God. You might not remember him from a little bit. Oh, you got an applause for Cloud Atlas. Ben Whishaw is. Yeah. Big Cloud Atlas room. Ben Whishaw is in a movie, I think it's called Perfume or something,

Portrait of a Killer, in which the final scene is an enormous orgy. And then up until that point, he has been murdering women and stealing their scent to make perfume out of. Iconic. Queer icon Ben Whishaw.

It makes sense that they saw that and were like, yeah, he's the bear. It's a straight pipeline between those two films. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate.

My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels, into something everyone in the South loves, the Biscuits.

I was a lady rebel. Like, what does that even mean? The Boone County Rebels will stay the Boone County Rebels with the image of the Biscuits. It's right here in black and white in print. A lion. An individual that came to the school saying that God sent him to talk to me about the mascot switch. As a leader, you choose hills that you want to die on. Why would we want to be the losing team? I'd just take all the other stuff out of it. Segregation academies.

When civil rights said that we need to integrate public schools, these charter schools were exempt from that. Bigger than a flag or mascot. You have to be ready for serious backlash. Listen to Rebel Spirit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I felt too

seen. Dragged. I'm N.K., and this is Basket Case. So I basically had what back in the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable. It was just very big sudden swaps of different meds. What is wrong

with me? Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies. On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in. Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope, the society that created the conditions in the first place will tell you there's something wrong with you. And it will call you a basket case. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I wanted to talk a little bit about the men dressing in drag, which happens in both movies. Both movies, yes. Hilarious bit. It is flawless. Nothing to say. And, like, such a staple in UK comedy too and has been for like a bajillion years.

Like I was unfortunately, I wasn't surprised at all that that happened because you're like, if there's more than 50% British people in the cast, this will happen and you will feel weird about it. It feels like there's always a moment where someone goes over to the director and she's like,

I was thinking, what if I wore a dress for this one? Right. And they were just like, yeah, okay, yes, sure. They're like, well, that happens in 90% of movies made in this country. Yeah, but we can do it different. It'll be great.

They're like, no, we're going to do it very tastefully. Well, they sort of didn't in this movie, unfortunately. So in the first movie, Mr. Brown dresses as a cleaning lady to get into the Geographer's Guild. And then when he and Paddington are telling this story, doing the recap, if you will, to the rest of the family, Mrs. Brown is all like, oh, that sounds so brave, Henry. You're such a man.

And Mr. Brown is like, you know, there's a time for being boring and annoying, and there's a time for being a man. And Paddington says, Mr. Brown dressed up as a lady, and someone stuck pins in him. And then the family's like, what? In a dress? What? What?

What? And then Mr. Brown's like, no. And then Paddington is like, it did look like a dress. And then Mr. Brown is like, more of a housecoat. It was quite liberating, actually. Right. So it ends on, you're you're like well it's weird. I love

I will say I love how even in this like bad taste joke they find a way to paint Paddington as like naive in a way where he's clearly

not in on the offensive part of the joke. Right. So you're like he contributes to this but we still love him for it. Right. He's just like

stating the facts. He's just stating facts. Yeah. He's recapping. It's a brilliant it's what every alt-right just stating the facts. He's just stating facts. Yeah. He's recapping. It's brilliant. It's what every alt-right guy thinks they're saying. It's like, I'm just saying facts. I'm just saying facts.

Sometimes that's Paddington. He's like, actually, I didn't actually say anything that was offensive. I just said what fucking happened. Okay? Proof. Proof. Proof. Proof.

What if Paddington is secretly alt-right? Oh, no. He's not. Don't worry. Okay, proof, proof, proof. What if Paddington is secretly alt-right? Oh, no, he's not. Don't worry. Okay, no, seriously, though, what did Paddington vote for on Brexit? Obviously, he's against Brexit. I know, but I think Mr. Brown is like, I could be swayed either way.

Mrs. Brown, I'm against voting at all. No, Paddington is very political. I think that only natural-born citizens should be allowed to vote. What if Paddington got radicalized on YouTube? Oh my god. No, don't say that. Paddington 3, Paddington logs in. Anyway. I'm a nice guy, and the women don't seem to be interested in me.

No, don't make Paddington an incel. No. I heard of this thing called make Paddington an incel. No. I heard of this thing called... Paddington is asexual. Actually, there's this thing called Chads and Beckys. It's the skull shapes. Don't. You're killing me.

I'm dying. Okay. Would it help if I told you that I can absolutely hear Paddington saying, like, all cops are bastards? Okay. absolutely hear padding saying like all cops are bastards uh okay anyway so this scene that we just described it's like it's another example of like a man presenting as feminine in some way and then like that being humiliating yeah for him it's not the worst example we've seen i'm thinking of like what women want where like mel gib Gibson comes out and all this stuff, and then his daughter is like,

Dad! There's literally some that are followed by dry heaving from the fragile male character. Right, right, right. It gets really bad. This isn't as bad, but it's still important. This is an aside, but did you know what women want costs $70 million to make?

Yes, but there was no scene in that movie that looks expensive. Well the cruise that they cut away to for no reason the prom that they cut away to

for no reason. James Cameron has a cameo in that movie and it's unaddressed. Really? Where is he at? Sorry I'm on a totally different thing now.

There's a scene where Mel Gibson is walking by to talk to Helen Hunt and they stop in the hallway and there's like a person there who's waiting to talk to someone and it's James Cameron. They don't talk to

him. You don't know he's there unless you are looking for him, but it's James Cameron. Honestly, I'm always looking for him and I'm so embarrassed. He's usually under the sea, so I don't blame you for not seeing him. He's an eyesore. I should have noticed him. That's on me. me of directors and taking

it back to paddington doesn't the guy who was like into mr brown in a dress really look like christopher nolan oh he does and he co-wrote the second movie that's his name is like simon farnaby or something like that of course yeah so in that scene where mr brown is uh in drag there is a man who pretty aggressively hits on mr brown dressed as a woman i'm interested in like what our queer listeners think about this because the same character comes back in paddington too and he is very attracted to hugh grant dressed as a nun. I have chosen to think that it's either that this character is either just like very attracted to kind of mask women

or that he's queer and he doesn't really know it yet. We've got to get a music sting to play under I have chosen to think. Of like, do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. But both times, like, it's played as a joke in the movie.

To me, the joke isn't so much that it's like, ooh, look how weird and wrong it is that this guy is attracted to, like, a man in drag. It's more that he just simply is attracted to a man in drag. But I feel like it's written, I mean, it's like written for laughs. It's written for laughy scenes yes and i am coming from a place of being you know cis het so right we're interested in what our listeners think for sure i i keep feeling like i i i'm just kind of like

hmm well in defense of the more offensive position but what i will say about this is it feels like at least in the second one they played the joke more as the fact that he, well, I guess it's still like, that's not great. But they play the joke more as like, it's not, oh, he's a woman as much as it is that like this man is like, you are a gorgeous woman. Like even the moment where he like runs away and it's just like, stop that incredibly gorgeous woman. It feels like that becomes the joke of like incredibly gorgeous is the part that you're supposed to laugh at. So then I'm like, is it worse that they're like, oh,

this person that he thinks is a woman and that we are supposed to believe is not beautiful is beautiful as the joke. In which case I'm like, well, that's also not great. Right. I don't know. I mean,

yeah, I'm not, I don't know. I'm not qualified to make the call. I don't know. Yeah. So if we've got any people, God damn it. Paddington, you got too call. I don't know. Yeah. So if we've got any people. God damn it.

Paddington, you got too complex on that. No. God damn it. I wanted to talk a little bit about Aunt Lucy. Yeah. Because she mostly exists off screen. Paddington talks about her very lovingly all the time. She seems to have taught him everything that he knows about being like a polite considerate little bear in paddington 2 we learn that it's

uh lucy who like spots baby paddington and then like jumps and rescues him that maybe could be argued oh it's another like very maternal instinct she cancels her international move yeah she's like we're not going to l London anymore. We have to raise a baby. Again, in defense of you, that move is sort of back-ended by that moment where she is risking her life to go

to scale down into the rapids to save a person. I feel like it doesn't become, oh, I must take care of this child until she realizes it's a child. It's just like a purely, a move of generosity or like out of empathy for a fellow bear. Right. Yeah, it's compassion.

Yeah. And not maternal instinct. Right. That's what I choose to think. And then the other thing I wanted to say about her was that I think it tends to be more common for us to see if there's like a male character who has a relationship with a family member in a movie it's often with another

male character um you know it's like father and son or uh uncle and nephew something like that so I like that you see such a positive relationship between a male and then a female relative. I feel like we don't see that quite enough. I think that's true. There are a few, yeah. I mean, I still am sort of like on the maternal trope wave here,

but I do think, I mean, it's interesting because in the first movie, especially, like, there is a lot of attention paid to Paddington and Mr. Brown trying to find

their common ground, whereas for Mrs. Brown, the common ground is never questioned. So there's really not as much of a journey for that relationship to take because they're always on the same page. That's not really as present in the bear thing. I feel like Aunt Lucy and Uncle Porridge are... See, they seem like more grounded in the allegory than the Browns are a lot of the time because they're just like in it less and they're connected to his life in

Peru. And a lot of it, like, I don't know, the aunt Lucy scenes make me cry so much. Cause she's like, she is a prominent maternal figure in his life, but she also like represents his whole past life in Peru.

And like, she seems to like represent a lot of things to him and represent homesickness. And also, he can't write his uncle. His uncle died. And so, yeah, the Aunt Lucy thing, that doesn't really, I mean, she just symbolizes his whole childhood to him

and everything that is familiar and good. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't have any problem with Aunt Lucy. She's so nice. Yeah. What do you think Paddington 3, allegory-wise, where do you see it extending to? Okay, so we didn't really talk about,

I mean, like prison reform for Paddington 2. We didn't go into huge detail about that. There's simply not time. No, but Paddington 3. Oh gosh. I mean marriage equality? What are the issues we can tackle? I want Paddington to stop Brexit. Do we have time?

Or is it like the wage gap? I mean there's so many things. Is it an abortion thing? Like Paddington gets someone pregnant. And then it's like it's your right to choose and Mr. Curry's like nope it shouldn't be

your right to choose he's like it is her right to choose and at the end he's like alright she can choose an hour and a half later Mr. Brown is like she should have the right to choose

and we all clap it's set up you know how they keep they set up like what they're good at and how it comes back have the right to choose and we all clap. It's set up, you know how they set up what they're good at and how it comes back in at the end. In the beginning, for some reason, they set up that Mr. Brown is a terrific abortion doctor. He was like, I don't know, I don't know if I can.

And you're just like, weird, huh? Weird set up. And then by the end of the movie, you're like, oh! In the house opening section, Mr. Brown is taken to giving abortions to women. Out of his house. Because it's no longer legal, our house has become a bit of an abortion clinic. What a way to also slip in.

It's like, by the way, in this world, it's illegal now. Yeah. I mean, we've got to raise the stakes in Paddington and also the world. And I mean, we didn't fully go into it. Just really quick with the Millicent Nicole Kidman character. Oh, yes. I think that this is like a villainous trope

that we've come up against a bunch at this point. But it's like in the same lane as Ursula the Sea Witch of a science-adjacent woman who is a little older, it does not seem to be in a romantic relationship, has extreme daddy issues, and all this adds up to being a fucking murderer. It sucks, because that performance is so good, and the way the character plays out, this adds up to being a fucking murderer yeah like that whole it sucks because i mean that

performance is so good and the way the character plays out like i like watching that character but there's so i like that we get the context for her of like this is why i feel that way at least she's motivated but yeah but it's motivated by daddy issues So it kind of ends up just kind of being a wash for me. The wig really should have gotten an Oscar nomination. That said, though, her performance is... Love it. If a woman had helped write this movie, that would have been a better character.

Right, because we've talked about this a little bit before, but especially in children's movies, it seems, or family-targeted movies, because we see this in incredibles 2 we see it in like you said like little mermaid and any other like kind of we see it in any witchy with a lab kind of movie like female villains who are like stem adjacent and not being villainized often well that's uh i wanted to briefly talk about mrs bird also she's mostly seen vacuuming in the movie but she often will like swoop in at the end and like do something significant i do like that she

kind of uses people's biases against old people against them because like she shows up in the at the end of the first movie and like goes to the security guard and is like oh will you help a frail old woman out of the cold and like she's like i'm not frail but he doesn't know that and then she like gets plastered and it's great it's very brave of her there's one moment where she pulls a gun and then it's a side gag because it's just foam dart. She was going to shoot Hugh Grant in the head. In the head. She didn't know it was a fake gun. That's very true.

She was ready to murder him. Proud to. PG, baby. And because it was like a setup, because she was like, Hugh Grant's going to walk in and then I will shoot him, she had a lot of time to think about it. Right.

It was like I'm about to see a dead fucking man. It's like I'm still doing this. It's almost like she's done it before. Yeah it was very premeditated. I bet she walked in and was like hello old friend. I think in the third Paddington movie they should learn how to say Paddington's bear name.

Oh. There's such a weird vibe. Well, it's like if we're going with the allegory of he's immigrated to this country, they're immediately like, yeah, don't know how to say that. Your name is where we fucking are right now. I think the third movie, they should learn how to say his goddamn name.

Mr. Brown tries but he says something very rude apparently I want the third movie to open with Mr. Brown just very casually looking over a Rosetta Stone of how to do bear and then by the end it's like okay he says it in a way that Paddington

has helped I don't know that's like if you were born and then they're like what's up Brockton Sam samaritan loft is you know i see your point i see your point i choose to think no i choose to think we shouldn't learn how to say anything does anyone have any other final thoughts about either paddington movie since i asked it i now i'm like what would i want to happen in paddington 3 and this is just an earnest pitch for paddington 3 i think it would be great if something happens with mr curry like a minor offense that gets him brought into court and they find out that he's from a different country and he's gonna get deported paddington is the one who's like but

mr curry is a part of our neighborhood we have to save him and everyone's like he sucks he's a fucking asshole he's racist as shit why would you do this and he's like, but Mr. Curry is a part of our neighborhood. We have to save him. And everyone's like, he sucks. He's a fucking asshole. He's racist as shit. Why would you do this? And he's like, well, because that's what we do and we're part of a community. We look after even the worst parts. That's so kind. Because then how are we any better than them?

And basically he goes around and gets like a petition signed for Mr. Curry to be saved. And the entire time, Mr. Curry's still hanging on him. At the end, he's just kind of like, this is my friend. Oh, that's so nice.

The people like it. That's so nice. Yeah, I love that. Did anyone notice what appears to be the black lesbian couple who live nearby? Yeah. I mean, they don't hardly say anything or do anything, but I was like, that's sweet.

It would have been so easy for them to pass the Bechdel test. Yeah. You just see they've been allowed to speak. Just have them go like, hey, Deb. Hello, Jennifer. We're lesbians, right? Yes. A true passing of the Bechdel test.

Then just move on. Trailblazing. Trailblazing. Well, speaking of the Bechdel test. Yes. Starting with Paddington 1, does that pass? That one does, yeah. Yes.

That one passes, I think, better than the second one does. Yes. In Paddington 1, Mrs. Brown and Judy talk about a Victorian bathing pond. They talk about the sewers. The sewer exchange is so fun because I'm like, oh, this scene is passing, but they're just talking about the sewers in more detail every time. She's like, you know, the sewers.

She's like, what? The sewers under the ground. What? The sewers under the ground. We can walk in them. Oh. Just girl talk. Yeah, you know.

And then their third interaction that passes is about toiletries. So it's a lot of like bathroom based discussions which is like new yeah i think women should talk more about bathroom stuff we talk about it a lot you and i often exchange your sludge yeah i refuse to give more context and i also do too okay um and then m. Brown and Mrs. Bird talk about the weather at some point. Yes. And Paddington 2, however.

Paddington 2 is trickier, I think, from a number of perspectives. Mainly because Paddington is not with women for most of this movie. He is in an all-male prison and is solving the prison industrial complex. Have more women prisoners. More ladies in jail. If more women were incarcerated in the UK, this really wouldn't have been an issue. Right, right, right. But that is, I think, one of the major things that prevents Padton 2 from passing more yes i agree um

there's i think only one conversation that i found that passed which was mrs brown and um madame koslova talking about the pop-up book and then uh about her great does she have a name uh we only know the last name koslova okay well Okay. Well, that's a name. Okay. But still the context of that conversation is still like, oh, there's a bear who's been wrongfully incarcerated. That's Poutington. Yeah. I don't think the second one,

but I was saying the second one didn't pass. Right, because the other conversation of note was Mrs. Brown and Mrs. Bird talking about actors being the most evil and vile people on the planet which true but that conversation yeah that conversation is about yeah phoenix buchanan but it's also about it's a meta joke about the profession of acting and in that sense is it it's actually brilliant and it could pass the test they're talking about Hugh Grant though I'm ruining Paddington I'm sorry the first one passes a lot

the second one Paddington's not around women for most of the movie women are around each other though they're so focused on helping Paddington that's the only thing they talk about it's weird because the women in the movie are mostly doing investigative journalism the whole movie.

But the subject of their story is a male bear. So what can you do? Here's my question. When I describe a movie as a motherly figure mostly doing investigative work to release an improperly incarcerated family member, am I talking about Paddington 2 or If Beale Street Could Talk? Oh, the question of the century. Or Green Book. The first one's Green Book. The second one is If Beale Street Could Talk. Yes.

And it's better for it. Yeah. That's just proof that it improved over time. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I love when franchises slowly learn. Piece by piece. The third one will love when franchises slowly learn. Piece by piece. The third one will have like a light drag scene.

Right. Let's rate the movie on our nipple scale. Okay. Zero to five nipples based on its representation of women. This is tricky. This is tricky because it is the best franchise ever made. That's exactly what I was thinking. People, I can't tell you how often I say that and people still think I'm joking.

It happens all the time. It's got better hit rates than The Godfather. I don't know what... 66% of The Godfather movies are good. 100% of the Paddington movies are good. That's true. You're not wrong.

I love these movies. i'll give it a three i mean they are like allegories for important topics and i suppose a way that is more digestible to most audiences just because it's like there's a cute bear but um the female characters like we said they're they're playing an active role in the story from start to finish. They are equipped with skills and interests that are important to the story. But there's those kind of weird moments where the men in drag and how that's kind of mishandled.

There is the villainization of a woman in STEM. So three nipples and I, whoa, how many nipples does a bear have? Three. I'm going to give all three of my nipples will go to Paddington's. I'm also going to go three

nipples. I mean, so much of the movie is literally Paddington. That every female character is by nature going to be a supporting role. There were those little things you were talking about that kind of bugged me. There was making sure that the teen girl had a romantic narrative thing,

then it was like, oh, whatever. That didn't impact the story literally at all. But in general, it's a lovely franchise, and I feel like the messages that it has, there's not a social justice franchise for children that is active besides this one. Yeah. And, you know, it's like... I mean, the movies are great.

I'll give three nippies. I'm going to give one to Sally Hawkins, one to Paddington, and one to the fish from The Shape of Water. All right. You can distribute nips? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I to the fish from The Shape of Water. All right. You can distribute nips? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I didn't realize that. Okay.

Yes. All right. I'm going to give it the total recall, three nips. All right. I think that, again, like you said, centering this movie around a male character does sort of mean that a lot of it's going to skew male, but I also think that there are smaller parts of the dynamics that I'm

kind of impressed by, like how the family unit, it feels like a lot of movies or just a lot of things won't put like a group together where the balance is upset by the number of women being more than the number of men. Cause it feels like it's just like, Oh, that's,

that's a feminine group then. And for it to be like that with the family before they like adopt Paddington into the circle does feel like a thing that it's like feminine group then. And for it to be like that with the family before they adopt Paddington into the circle does feel like a thing. But it's like, oh, that means they're going to focus more on women characters when this family becomes a part of the movie. And I think that's very cool. But I also think that it's like,

when they started this, it felt like they definitely were like, yeah, we're going to make this a franchise. So for them to be like, well, the first run out, we are still going to make the villain a woman, does feel like the kind of like quote unquote risk that Hollywood people would be like, oh yeah, yeah, we'll get the diversity in there if we get another one. But this first one's got to be a man.

And for them to be like, no, no, no, we're just going to, we're going to have Nicole Kidman play a wacky woman, feels like something I would be surprised to see in any other franchises. Sure. Because often, I mean, we've talked about this too, that if there's a movie with a female villain, it's usually in a movie that also has a female protagonist.

It's rare to see a movie where like, could a woman pose a threat to a male character? Could a woman pose a threat to a tiny bear? Brave questions being asked. I agree. It does feel like, yeah, seeing that dynamic and not in a sort of femme fatale sort of way where it's like, she's going to fuck the protagonist

and that's why she's the villain. She's going to fuck Pat. There was a draft. No, but yeah. I don't know. I think it still has a ways to go and they do give a lot of the focus to the male characters of the franchise,

but they also... It's like, are we rating this against the average movie or are we rating it against the idea of a perfect film? Oh, man. I think five is our perfect. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, then I think a three.

It does a little bit better than the average film does, but I also think it has some glaring things where you're like, still, the drag stuff. You're like, two times, okay. Yeah. Well Demi, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Give it up for Demi.

Give it up for Demi. it up for Demi thank you yes yes yes where can people follow you online what do you like to plug oh I would love to plug this jar of orange marmalade

she's been sitting in my pocket for the entire show getting real warm I have one too it is getting a little warm but it's

you know marmalade's good in any sense this is Smuckers gorgeous I gotta shout out the brand you can follow me at Electro Lemon It is getting a little warm, but it's, you know, marmalade's good in any sense. This is Smucker's. Gorgeous. I gotta shout out the brand. You can follow me at ElectroLemon pretty much anywhere.

Listen to Punch Up the Jam, my podcast. Yes, it's so good. Yeah, you've both been on it. You've both been wonderful guests. Thank you for doing that. And, you know, go for a walk sometime. Joey, treat yourself nice. Yeah, self-care.

Yeah. Thank you so much for coming to the show. birthday caitlin that was our show yes that was the paddington show thank you again to our wonderful guest demi adidjuibe so great uh please listen to his podcast punch up the jam and truly just anything that he does he's wonderful so good um thank you so much to sammy junio for recording the show friend of the pod for us friend of the podcast thanks to everyone who came out to see the show and a special thanks to anyone who brought a donation for project caged birds yes we absolutely oh you guys are the best and uh thank you to the ruby as always the ruby for having us hosting us uh and now for the regular business you can find us online

on twitter instagram facebook if you're still on facebook why are you still on facebook what's going on uh you can find us at uh back till cast on all of those platforms yes you can subscribe to our patreon aka matreon our padding chin treon that one didn't really work nope um but i tried and that's all that matters i did the bear maximum yes our new t-shirt design i like the bear maximum i just i'm i'll make the bear maximum okay okay yeah okay good thank you so much you're welcome so you can buy that that shirt someday soon on our t public store t public.com slash the bechtel cast and then back to the the matreon plug you can go to patreon.com slash bechtel cast and sign up for our matreon which is two bonus episodes every single month, plus our backlog of all of our existing Matreon episodes.

So nearly 50 bonus episodes. Lots. If you burn through the main feed, there's more. This month we did Into the Spider-Verse, and we also have an upcoming Matreon episode about Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Yes, because it was my birthday month selection and that's what i picked we did cartoons it was great um i i'm gonna do a quick pluggy if you're an international listener living in just like paddington yes he listens to the podcast and he all residents of the uk are cordially invited i'll be at the edinburgh fringe festival all of august

doing my show boss whom is girl so if you're around there perhaps I'll be at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival all of August doing my show, Boss Whom is Girl. So if you're around there, perhaps there'll be some Bechtel cash shows as well. We don't know. Oh, yeah, we're working on it. That's a tease. I'm going to go to Paddington Station while I'm there. I'm just going to roll around on the ground. I'm just going to soak it up here. And then someone's going to show up and be like, we've got to adopt this adorable woman. I'm like, please look after this woman. And then someone will take me home. So yeah, look out for all of that.

And thanks for listening. Everyone, thank you for indulging me and letting me do this Paddington episode. It was a gift. I had such a great time and I love these movies so much. Okay, bye. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unnerves the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks.

She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. To listen to new episodes one week early

and 100% ad-free, subscribe to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. point. So where are we headed? Into the unknown, of course. Join us on In Our Own World as we uncover hidden truths, navigate the depths of culture, identity, and the human spirit. With a hint of mischief, one episode at a time. Buckle up and listen to In Our Own World on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust us, it's out of this world. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me?

A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology. Swaps of different meds. But by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane, what we can do about it, and why we should care. Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.