The Bechdel Cast - Pin (1988)

Episode Date: August 13, 2026

For Jamie's birthday, Caitlin and Jamie put on their skin suits and chat with their favorite medical dummy about the movie Pin (1988)! Happy birthday, Jamie!!! Here's the link to watch Pin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNSgXSyhyE0&t=6107sSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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A.O. Rewatch on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible

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You probably know me from NYPD Blue, the longest yard, or Spike Lease Black Klansman. And on my new podcast, delivering happiness with Nick Titoro, I deliver a lot of you. a pizza to a new guest. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing my belt? To Bill Burr. I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am. And now we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Titoro. It's called Happiness. Delivering Happiness. And many, many more. Open your free

High Heart Radio app. Search Delivering Happiness with Nick Titturo. And listen now. Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Beckdale cast. Happy birthday, Jamie. It's me, PIN. My lips flapping. My lips flapping my teeth showing.

Don't say anything. Oh, oh, listeners, you're in for. it today. Welcome to the Bexelcast. My name's Jamie Loft. My name's Jamie Loft. My name's Jamie Loft. My name's Caitlin Durante. And this. Sorry. You should, you should know. Actually, behind me, I kind of have my pin. My Barbie. I have a My size Barbie that I've used on stage many times. Yeah, she's kind of my pin in that she's real and she killed my parents. And it was her. It had nothing to do with me. It was her. Yeah.

I was out grocery shopping. That's one of the, there are so many things with Leon in this movie where I'm like, Leon, we've got to be a better liar if we're going to be committing so many murders. He's going to be a better liar. His sister needs to be more discerning, I would say. It's really important that we start to blame her. I was like, let's start by blaming the victim. And leave my friend Ursula alone.

She's doing her best. Welcome to the special cast. My name's Jamie Pinloftus. Wow. My name's Kate Pin, Durante. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

What a way to start a Monday. And this is our podcast where we take a look at your favorite, or in this case, I think just my favorite movie is using an intersectional feminist lens. I'm not sure most people know about PIN 1988. I mean, that's kind of why we're doing this, to spread the good word. The pin, pin exists. Imagine clapping emojis between those words. Are there any pinheads in the crowd?

Not that kind of pinhead. I don't like those ones. I like psychological horror pin. Wait, I don't even know what pinhead refers to. I just know that there was a fake band and Back to the Future called The Pinheads. Oh, pinhead. Well, it's the main character in Hellraiser, the Hellraiser franchise. right and you'll never believe why he's called that because he has pins in his head because he has pins in his head

Caitlin what's the Bechtel test it is a mediometric created by our good friend alison bechtel there's there's a lot of backstory behind it but we've we've just got to get into PIN today so I'll do the abridged version sure there are many versions of the Bechtel test but the one that we use is do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak to each other? And is there a conversation about something other than a man or a male-coded? Yeah, I would say pin he-him. Pin is a he-him all the way down.

He-him, yeah. If you've seen, I don't really think there's other, no other interpretations. Let's just leave it at that. Let's leave it at that. Some real he-him behavior. coming from from pin and and and also his various you know if you subscribe to the pin isn't real theory um all of his ventriloquists are also men toxic men toxic toxic man absolutely so pin is an agent he's a puppet of the patriarchy wow yeah um yeah so we are

here to talk about the feminist implications of the movie pin 19 and 88. I think that we both saw this movie under the, while we were not physically together, we were in community when we first saw this. Yeah. What's your history with PIN? You're referring to the annual 24-hour horror movie marathon, aka a.k.a. Horrathon that our friend Alex does every year. I think we saw this during the horroathon that was like four or five years ago. Okay. So, for me, I was only loosely paying attention as PIN was being streamed before my very eyes. And so I had different, I had a different impression of it than is actually the case. So when I rewatched it to prefer this episode, I was like, oh, it's like, it's like kind of higher

budget than I thought. I was remembering like student film vibes. Like, no, I mean, this was supposed to be a theatrical release. And then it got, it kind of got the shaft. I mean, it definitely has TV movie energy. Yeah. Which makes sense when you, like, that's a lot of what this director did. It's like Canadian, like many, you know what I should have done this year? Creating Remlosar. I like many, like many of my favorite movies, it is basically a TV movie in vibes.

In, I feel like in the way that it's shot, in the way that the music. sounds, even the performances. It's like, it's very, and I say this while feeling the performances in this movie, especially the two center, well, let's, and let's throw a pin in there. The three central performances, I think are really good, like kind of better than they have any right to be. I agree. But it is like a mellow drama.

Everyone seems to know the movie they're in. It is a very intense, but the lead performance, like Leon really slays it. He reminds me he's giving like young Robert Pattinson to me. Sure, especially when he's playing a creep like Edward Cullen. A weird, well, he's playing like a very stoic weirdo. And I just, yeah, British Canadian actor David Hewlett, who I guess is most famous for being in the Stargate franchise, which I have not seen. But he was also in, he's one of the villains in the shape of water, which is a fame of mine. He's like one of the corporate Cold War guys.

So he's like a del Toro. like all of these actors have like pretty pretty cool resumes i mean not to mention literally literally john locke of lost fame john locke is in this movie and he's maybe terioquin if he's going to do one thing it's play the weirdest bitch in the movie like he is always the weirdest bitch on screen he's so good at it yes i just my god um sorry i'm already getting distracted I pin. So yes, Horathon. Yes. So we saw it then. You, I remember you really latching on to this movie. I was not quite so enamored by it. I think me and Bryant were really into it. Yes. For me, I think, I don't remember like where it was in the order of this, again, 24 hour marathon. So I might have been tired. I might

have just been kind of distracted. But I was sort of checked out during PIN. But I do remember you and our friend Bryant being like locked in. during PIN. John Locked. We were John Locked. And this is before I found, before I watched Lost. So now re-watching PIN and knowing weird bitch John Locke is in it. Everyone check out my favorite John Locke clip, which is him in group therapy, yelling at a woman saying, you want your $30 back?

I want my kidney back because his father stole his kidney. Oh, I forgot about that. He's so funny, dude. he's so funny he's the most put upon character in all of television and he's he's got the scars to show for it because he's a weird weird man yes so anyway that's my history with pin i had never heard of it before that neither had i i've never seen it referenced since it is sort of it's kind of lost media it feels like it is for free on youtube but otherwise you can't rent it or stream it or anywhere i think it's like sort of one of those movies that's being like single-handedly kept alive by like horror fans,

which is cool. Yeah. Like Alex, our friend Alex. Yes. But yeah, that's that's my relationship to it. Jamie, tell us more about yours. Well, it started at the very same horrorathon. I think it also had to do with, first of all, where I was at in my life and like what I was doing and how much I was paying attention. Because I don't expect you to remember this because I've never disclosed it. But this was, This would have been Horrathon 2021 when I was going through a rather gnarly breakup. And as I was watching Horrathon this year, I was repainting the walls in my old apartment. So two critical things, which is leading up to a very embarrassing reveal, two critical things about me getting really locked in a pin is, number one, my house is full of paint fumes. Because I was painting, repainting the house being like, I have to change my life.

So first of all, I was maybe a little bit high on paint fumes, number one. Number two, I was not fully paying attention to some crucial shots in PIN. I missed a few crucial shots in PIN because I was painting my bathroom at the time, which means that I thought on this first viewing that PIN was real. And I didn't realize PIN wasn't real. And that said, I fully thought, because they don't, I mean, again, and this speaks to like the Netflixification of how we watch movies now, because you are clearly given the information if you're looking at the screen the whole time, like movies are supposed to go. But I was just hearing pin and I was like, this is so wild. I love this real character. There's a sentient medical dummy. Although I think that. that the movie keeps you guessing about whether or not PIN is real or slash sentient for a little

while. It becomes clear the further into the movie you get that PIN is only, seems to be talking and moving because of ventriloquism and because of alive human people manipulating him. Right. And his movements and things like that. But for a little while, I feel like you're not totally sure one way or the other. Well, there's one sequence in particular where I'm like, the car crash. The car. Yeah, exactly. Leon is certainly not in there. So I don't under.

Yeah. There's one scene where I, and I think I was going with that. But I think for like kind of every other sequence, Leon's always there. Leon or the, yeah, or the dad. Something I thought was interesting. And this isn't even a criticism is that the voice doesn't change for PIN, even when the person being Pins ventriloquist changes. I think I like that. But anyways, I fully was high on paint fumes and thought PIN was real on the first viewing.

But I'm thrilled to report that I've seen it two or three times since then and it's still so awesome. I mean, I think what I missed in, I mean, even if you watch the movie PIN, believing PIN is real high on paint fumes, it is still a very intense psychological thriller. But once you know that he is being used as a ventriloquist dummy, the psychological thriller stuff really amps. So yeah, and then Alex Jacobs' iconic film editor of movies like In a Violent Nature, in a Violent Nature 2, Night Nurse, which just came out. Is there another one maybe, Jamie? My movie that hasn't come out, but hopefully will. But he's, I feel like he's, because he programs us and is also a horror fan who would know about PIN, brought pin to the people in 2021.

I also own a copy of the book, which I considered reading for this, but then I read that it really leans into the incest subplot and decided I don't need to read it. I don't need to read it, actually. There's enough of an incest subplot in the movie for me. Yeah, it's a psychological thriller. These kids, they never stood a chance

because their father was John Locke. And so, but yes, I think I have like such an affection for this movie. I think part of it is connected to like how and when I saw it. But I also think it's like, again, like you're saying like better than you would think. Like because it's basically lost media, I feel like that means either. Lost media. Oh my God. Starring John Locke.

Oh my God. If Lost ever got lost. I'd be pissed. be pissed. I'm looking at my John Locke doll over there. Wait, what? You want to see him? Do you have an, I know, okay, well, I already know how many dolls you have. I have a lot of dolls.

The life size Barbie. You famously have an American girl doll boy, Logan. And two girls, unfortunately. And two girls. Like this John Locke, it's like a little, it's for kids. And there's Hurley, Jack and Kate, we're Saeed. You know, we're a son. Where's a lot of good characters missing from it?

But I bought it because John Locke is my number one. Where's Walt? Where's Michael? Come on, folks. Where are the good characters? Shrug. Anyways, John Locke, one of our best men being bitches' canon characters. Indeed.

But anyways, yeah, like, I think because PIN is so hard to find, you're like either it's so hard to pinpoint. I'm really sorry. putting myself up with this. You would think that it's like not good, but it is good. It's better than you'd think. Yeah. And I think it's doing a lot of like horror tropes in ways that I like haven't really

seen come together quite in this way. So I may say if you haven't seen PIN, I would recommend watching in a group. Don't like it. It's weird. Now we can both attest. It feels weird to watch PIN by yourself. It does. And I would recommend before you listen to the rest of this episode and hear the recap, if you have not already seen PIN, don't get it spoiled by the recap and our discussion.

Just take some time. Pause this episode. Watch PIN on YouTube. It's an hour in 43 minutes or something like that. It's a pretty quick watch and then come back and listen to the rest of this episode. because like it gets so nuts so fast that I want people to experience it for themselves. I agree. You deserve to have the optimal PIN experience.

We'll leave the YouTube link because like there literally is, I don't think that you could pay to watch this movie if you wanted to, which feels kind of evil. I want I want PIN to get residuals. We want to financially support PIN. I want Ursula. Ursula, God and Stan. Ursula and Stan one iconic couple top 10 most iconic couples in film Ursula and Stan

Stan I think is such an iconic character we'll get to Stan I'm a Stan fan I'm a Stan Stan Stan fan I'm a I was standing Stan it's so and it's so hard to get us on board with a boyfriend character but I'm like Stan has some great boyfriend qualities and that every time we cut to him he is trying to learn how to read he's like okay he's trying to learn how to read a little language that is not his first language. French, right? I think Italian. Italian? I don't know. But I just was like, Stan, he's a jock with a dream. And he's so nice to PIN. It's wild how nice he has to PIN. People are too nice to PIN in this movie. It's true. It's true. And therein lies the problem. But if you see PIN out in the streets, do not be nice to him.

Kick his ass, dude. He's the one. He's, he's, he's, he's, he's, Maybe the one guy that really has it coming is PIN. Mm-hmm. And then when PIN get, well, God, wait, okay, truly stop. If you haven't seen PIN, please stop. Please go watch. And watch it. Because what I'm about to say is one of the best part of the movie, when PIN gets skin,

oh my God. Oh, my God. It's so wild. Do you remember? I'll never forget where I was the first time I saw PIN with skin. It was in a bathroom full of pink. Oh. ingesting paint fumes.

This is a great breakup. This is a great breakup movie. For reasons I can't quite articulate because it has nothing to do in the movie. But you just leave your body watching PIN. No, of course. Well, let's take a quick break and give people the opportunity to go and watch PIN. And then we'll come back for the recap. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense.

Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.orgia for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything.

Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here. You know us or rather you know them. Tony and Candice, Nina and Lance, Spike, And yes, the chicken. We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia AEO rewatch, our brand new podcast.

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And we'll also be joined by the people who helped Bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Chryssel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvised, not just words, but a song, a melody.

I thought he was going to write. I thought you were all going to write a song. I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia. Ayo, rewatch on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Solita, we share the. the messy stories of traveling alone as a woman. Your duolingo is not going to come back to you

when a man is inside of you. Oh, no. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, And they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is

and not the lies you're sold about it. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook.

Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show is famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stillard. The definition of what is a movie has kind of changed anywhere too, right? What do you think it is now? It's images and words being spoken, captured by some sort of. of technology. Danny McBride.

He loves Mouthing. Oh, that's fantastic. And you make it on, you make your own. That's great. I call him Terro Reed. It's a good name. They're all named after cast members of American Pie. Yeah.

Oh, gotcha. I call, I don't, I never looked up if she was in this, but I call him Leachie Sobieski. Yeah. I don't think she was an American Pie, but I still like that. Haven't looked it up. She was prominent around the same time. Yeah. Then Mary Steenbergin.

Why are you guys talking to me? I'm worried. Why are you talking so down to me that you think I don't understand your little play game? I just really, I get it. I'm trying to set you up for success here. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So a content warning before we delve into the recap for there are mentions of rape and incest. which will also come up in our discussion so that listeners are aware of that.

Here's the plot of pin. We open on some kids who are outside of a house looking at something in the second story window. Did this remind you of a movie? Because another one of my favorite movies starts with this setup. Oh, wait, it does seem familiar, but I can't pinpoint it. with that pun. This is how Casper begins. Oh, yeah.

Right. Okay. How weird. So these kids are looking at something in the window. It might be a man sitting very still, or it might be a dummy. We're not sure. One of the little boys climbs up to get a better look, and it's hard to tell exactly what he's looking at.

But then we see a face and eyes that blink. And so we're like, ah! And the boys are scared off and run away. We cut to 15 years earlier. We meet the Lyndon family. The father is Dr. Lyndon, played by Terry O'Quinn, aka John Locke from Lost. He's being weird. I will say, I think that for particularly, I think for both of the siblings,

they found appropriate young, like baby Leon and adult Leon, I think are equally creepy, which had to have been difficult because that's a respect. That child's probably like 50 years old now. It's a very creepy kid. Yeah, for sure. Also, okay, so I didn't catch this the first time, but we see the kids as two different ages before they become teenagers, or at least Ursula, the sister. She's like, maybe like a five-year-old in a couple scenes. And and then they age her up and they have another actor who is probably like 10 or so. Yeah, there's some ethical. I have some ethical questions about how these kids are directed and what they're talking about.

And it's the need. Oh, God. Now's a good time to say that in the movie pin, 1988, getting horny is called the need. Everyone calls it that. There's no other word for it. Yes. It reminded me of, have you ever read The Giver? Yes.

When they call like sexual desire stirrings, I think is the term they used. Wow. I haven't thought about the Giver in a very long time. That was one of my favorite books as a kid. Same. Same. Interesting. But yeah, they're like, oh, tween kid, you're starting to feel sexual feelings.

Those are stirrings. And I remember reading that as a kid and being like, oh, my God. What the hell? What the hell? It's a little bit nasty to call it that. But if you get the immediately, this family is the kind of family that would call it the need versus anything. This family sucks so bad. They're all very creepy.

So we meet the father, Dr. Lyndon. He is super like uppity and formal and creepy. He makes his small children, Leon and Ursula, do math before they go to bed. Meanwhile, their mother, Mrs. Lyndon, I'm not sure if we ever get a first name for her. She's also very, like, prim and uppity. She's obsessed with cleanliness. She's also physically violent. She's also physically and verbally abusive.

Yeah. So this is not a happy family. No. We cut to Dr. Lyndon's medical office. And while he is treating a child, he's also talking to a life-size medical dummy named PIN. Who we learn later is anatomically correct. Yes. And in the pediatrician's office.

I mean, it makes sense that a medical dummy would be anatomically correct. Yeah, but it doesn't make sense it would be in the pediatrician's office. I don't know. It was the 80s. I know. I was like, it's so, yeah, you have to. sort of wonder, you're like, I mean, obviously, I don't think it was ever normalized for an anatomically correct medical dummy that speaks via ventriloquism to be normalized in, you know, Western society.

But I have to imagine that creepy, I mean, I think about like behavior that my pediatrician was doing in the like late 90s, early 2000s. And you're like, I probably would not fly today. I would not let my child, you know, my doctor, was weird. I feel like my doctor, my pediatrician was pretty not weird. My pediatrician, I've been thinking about it a lot because I just wrote an essay about scoliosis. And my pediatrician, A, totally missed my scoliosis, which was so bad in advance that it's kind of shocking that he missed it for what would have had to have been years. And then when he, when my gym teacher found it instead of him, he was so embarrassed that he spent years, just. just like kind of freaking me out into like telling me I had various illnesses I didn't have

because he was so like yeah he told he told me I had he's he thought that I had Marfan syndrome like I got I mean I'm glad that like if he suspected that he sent me to get tested and like all this stuff but it just felt like he was overcompensating for a clear failure and then sent me on all these really scary tests that never ended up being anything but it just like but he was like our family doctor all my cousins went to him too and so we're just like he has a lutee's tie he's probably a good doctor anyways he was not okay and and neither is dr linden no i mean i guess i should be counting my blessings pin wasn't there at least oh my god right yeah be grateful jamy so dr linden is talking to this medical dummy named pin and pin

is quote unquote responding because Dr. Linden is throwing his voice and doing ventriloquism to make it seem like Pinn is talking back to him. Also, Dr. Linden's children are in the room as he's performing like a medical examination on a child. And it doesn't seem like a child they know. Not that that would make it appropriate, but I'm like if it's a cousin maybe, but like it's just that that's not the situation. Yeah, no, it's uncalled for any way you look at it. So all this creepy stuff is happening, including the way PIN looks and sounds, because he looks like something out of a nightmare.

I don't know if that's just how medical dummies looked at the time. I think they went out of their way to make him scarier because he has these like empty blue eyes. Right. But otherwise, like other medical dummies, they would basically look the way. way a human would look if you removed their skin. So you see like their muscles and stuff. But he's also, did you watch Breaking Bad and or Better Call Saul? Because I did not. I've seen the first season and change of Breaking Bad, but like many, many TV series, even if they're good and I'm enjoying them, I still fall off pretty quickly. I just, uh, I just haven't seen it.

But yeah, I'm sure many of our listeners have. And so it's worth mentioning that the voice actor for PIN is one Jonathan Banks, who plays a huge character on both Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. Hitman and Fixer Mike Erman Trout. Okay. So he's been in, I think, like, basically every Breaking Bad thing you could possibly be in. He was nominated for an Emmy for this role a number of times. He was nominated for a SAG Award, Saturn Awards.

So anyways, if you saw any breaking bad media, I'm assuming that you would recognize this actor, and you would be shocked to find that he also played PIN. I was able to find an interview, but like there's so little, so few people who have acknowledged they're in PIN. David Hewlett, you cannot find a single acknowledgement. And he does a lot of interviews. He pretends he doesn't see PIN, even though he's giving the performance of a lifetime, whatever. whatever but jonathan banks did give one errant interview about pin and he was like i don't remember really doing that but i never got any residuals where are my residuals and it's like bad bad news pal

pin didn't really come out i don't think residuals are on the way no they should give him youtube ad rev how can we get mike how can we get uh breaking bad's mike ermin trout paid for pin i think the pin voice is so effective and so creepy very cool very cool creepy, yes. Yeah. And despite PIN sounding and looking extremely creepy, the children think that PIN is cool, especially Leon, is really into PIN.

Yeah. And the children... I mean, Leon, I feel like PIN is the only, quote unquote, adult-sized creature that seems to show Leon any patience, even though I wouldn't say, kindness feels like a stretch. Right, because Pinn isn't like warm. No.

He's very clinical and, again, creepy. Yeah, but he isn't like cruel, which is how Leon's parents are. So I think that he gets attached for that and other reasons. Right. So Leon is obsessed with PIN and the kids have a quick conversation with PIN. And once again, it's pretty clear that, Dr. Lyndon has PIN quote unquote respond via ventriloquism. And PIN tells the children that they shouldn't be talking to him when their father isn't

around. And this is something that Leon really, like, takes to heart. One day, Leon goes into his dad's office to talk to PIN, partly because PIN seems to be Leon's only friend. The kids at school don't like Leon and they bully him. So Leon goes to confide in Pin. But then a nurse is about to come into the room. So Leon hides and then watches as the nurse has sex with Pin. This scene is so weird. This scene this is one of, it's not the first thing that happens in PIN that makes you go, yuck, what? But it is the first thing where you're just like, wow, truly anything could happen in the movie

PIN because this nurse, spoiler alert, we never see her again. The fact that she fucks PIN is not relevant to the plot at all. It's just something that like, I mean, I guess the way that it, I wouldn't say it moves the plot forward, except that like it does, I guess, further complicate Leon's relationship to sexual urges. how he conflates various things because he doesn't have an adult in his life to have an honest conversation with him about this but the way they choose to get that information across is just by saying so this nurse we met at the beginning of the movie who don't get comfortable she will not

be coming back she fucks pin on her break she fugs pin at work at work yeah on her break and that's why it's important that pin is anatomically correct because yeah He is this nurse's sex doll. Apparently PIN has a constant erect penis. Otherwise, I'm not sure. Right. I guess I don't know enough about medical dolls to be like, I miss. Yeah, I guess you don't get them aroused.

Wow, I didn't think about that. That's another argument for PIN real. Right. If PIN has a boner. Unless, but then it's like, if PIN is real, he's also getting assaulted. right is pin consenting to this can pin consent alternatively if we go with the read that pin is not alive which is okay um some dissenters may make this claim perhaps the sex that the nurse is having with pin is not penetrative maybe she's just sort of rubbing rubbing rubbing up on pinning rubbing up on pin

rubbing rubbing pins flaccid anatomically correct penis that's true against her we don't know and it's we don't know we don't know i i think you know the nurse i can't say nurse innocent necessarily because you shouldn't be having sex with pin at a pediatrician's office i agree with the door ajar i might add also she does not close the door so i would say that is a bit diabolical i i cannot stand that this is a woman's wrong, I think, unfortunately. This is a woman's wrong. Having sex with PIN, not my business. Having sex with PIN at work and you work at a pediatrician's office and the doors open,

well, that's a red, that's a red flag. Seek treatment. Yes. And Leon is witnessing this all happen and he seems quite horrified. Yeah. Understandably so. Then we cut to Ursula's birthday. Pin has gotten her a present as if he is,

one of the family. Oh my God. And it's so thoughtful. I love, I don't know why this line stuck with me, but when Leon goes, oh, he's like, this is the exact kind of present PIN would get. Because he's just like, PIN is such a classy, a classy guy. He is PIN's number one fan. Penn has taste.

And then that night, Leon and Ursula are talking. She insults PIN. So Leon strikes her. And then their mother catches them with a, magazine that contains nudity and she's appalled the next day the kids get the sex talk but guess who it's from it's from pin unfortunately from pin why did they get the talk from pin and why well i think this is this brings up a lot of questions about the doctor character i think that the doctor character it's interesting and i'm using the word interesting liberally here and i don't

It's tricky because it's like this movie and also like a lot of movies in this genre, like the way that that horror films address abuse can sometimes be like overt, right? Like but I think that this movie kind of it's just the stuff, there's a lot of questions left with the doctor. I think that like the doctor is sort of using pin as a grooming tool to some extent here. But also it seems like I think at least towards his. daughter, I think he behaves very inappropriately towards his daughter with regards to her body, like especially when she gets older. But I also think when she's younger, like the way that he talks to the kids about their bodies is inappropriate. And that that's like a behavior that Leone repeats toward Ursula later in the movie, like talking with talking to Ursula about

her body and her autonomy in a very, I mean, with Leon, it gets pretty extreme. But like, in a very invasive and shamy and inappropriate way. But I was kind of surprised at how, and maybe people are like, Jamie, your brain has officially died. But like, I'm surprised at how kind of like not banging you over the head with it they are in father's behavior because you're so focused on how weird pin is conceptually. Right. But like what he's having PIN say is so creepy.

And it's something that I don't think an adult man could get away with saying, not to say that giving your children the talk is creepy. Obviously it isn't. It's the way he's doing it when he says it and then he says, take the towel off my lap. You're like, that's not how that goes. And also, does anyone hose pin down?

Pins a sexually active doll. PIN has juices on him from the nurse. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, I also think that the movie frames the mother character as more overtly abusive because she strikes her son.

She, I read her as just being sort of more overtly abusive versus. Certainly physically. Yeah. But I also think that the dad, yeah, the dad is abusive in, again, like in a more shades of gray than you would expect in a movie like this. Right. The dad is definitely, I mean, they're both emotionally abusive towards their kids. But like their dad is emotionally abusive in this very,

And then I think you could argue he's physically abusive, but in this very, like, detached way where the mother's abuse comes through a lot, I think, like, just through anger and rage. But the dad's abuse, I do. And maybe I'm like overstating. I don't want to like use this word irresponsibly. But I do feel like PIN is kind of being used to like groom the children to think about their bodies a certain way. I agree. That entitles their father to their bodies. Yeah. Yes. I also think that the ways in which the dad character is abusive was very normalized for the time and might not have even been read as abuse for audiences who were watching this in the late 80s. Oh, God. I have to believe that my dear friend Terry O'Quinn was aware. But this scene is also interesting because this is where Ursula, smartest person in the movie, and this is a scene that I guess I was.

painting and not looking at the screen because you can see John Locke clearly being ventriloquist and Ursula noticing it and then turning back to PIN and engaging. But the way that Ursula engages with PIN is out of fear versus belief. And then that's like something that remains true for the rest of, I don't know, who knows? I guess the rest of her life if you see how PIN ends. And just you wait. listeners. But you should have already watched it. You should already know. If you're still here, you, we trust the. And also, oh my gosh, wait, this would be so fun. If you watched PIN on YouTube,

leave a comment saying the Bechtelcast brought me here. Oh, a comment on YouTube. Yes. Yes. I want to see. Yes, please. Let's get the PIN video. Let's get engagement up. Halloween's right around the corner. We need people watching PIN. Yes. Yes. Okay. So the kids are getting the sex talk from PIN. He tells them about the urge people get to have sex. And we will talk more about this scene in our discussion. But that's the vibe of the conversation. And then PIN is like, look at my genitals.

And afterward, Leon and Ursula talk about kind of what just happened. And it seems as though Ursula is more curious and comfortable. talking about sexuality while Leon seems much less comfortable with it. Yeah, which is another interesting, like, it's hard to put yourself in like 1988 mindset, because I think that there's a read of Ursula's behavior early on that is like a very normal curiosity for a young girl to have, and that is the intent of how it was written. And then I think there's another read of it is like she is like hypersexual and this is abnormal. I'm not really sure what read the movie intends you to take, but I like that both are available.

Well, just because I like the movie PIN, I want to say that it's presented as normal because Ursula is like our final girl and kind of the survivor. Like I think that if she, and we've all watched PIN, so this is safe to say, if she like died in a horrible way, I feel like the other read is more likely. Right, because it would probably seem like the movie is punishing her. for having sexual needs. Exactly. The need. Exactly. Yeah.

But she, I mean, she is punished for having the need, but then our, but by her brother, not by the movie. Yes. That is true.

And she meets, she meets the only nice movie boyfriend I've ever seen. She meets a sweetie pie. Stan the man. He's a little sweetie. I love Stan. Yeah. Yes.

Okay. So the kids have gotten the sex talk. And then we cut to a few years later. Leon and Ursula. are now teenagers. Leon is super straight-laced. He seems to take after his parents quite a bit. He's got kind of a proud boy haircut, let's be honest.

For sure, yes. He's like wearing a suit to school kind of thing. But Ursula, she seems to be a proud slut. She is sexually liberated and she's wearing it proudly. And Leon finds her having sex with a... a guy in a car. But we also know that she's being bullied for it. True, yes.

Yeah. There's like graffiti on the lockers saying that she's easy or whatever. Girls and women famously can't win. Right. Yeah. Yes. Anyway, Leon discovers her having sex in a car. So he intervenes, beats up the guy, and then ruthlessly slut shames Ursula.

And basically says, like, if you ever have sex again, you can, forget that I'm your brother. He's like threatening to disown her. And so she promises not to do it again. But uh-oh, it's too late. She is pregnant. Ursula reveals to Leon that she believes that she is pregnant. And they debate whether or not they should tell their father or go to a different doctor

in town or how to maybe keep this under wraps. But as in all things, Ursula is just absolutely trapped in this, like, web of horrible men and Leon unfortunately correctly points out that they live in a small town and it would get back to her father anyways and so they should just tell him right because I guess the doctors in this town don't give a shit about HIPAA violations I mean that is definitely true because that happened to when my mom that happened to my mom when she got an abortion in the 80s where a doctor violated HIPAA rules so I do think that that concern is well placed yeah for sure. But then it's like, oh, now I have to get an abortion from fucking John Locke. This,

and PIN! Oh, and PIN. My God. Okay, so yes, here's what happens. Because they don't know exactly what to do. Leon suggests they go to PIN for advice. And Ursula is like, uh, that's not going to work. Pin won't slash can't talk when our father isn't there. But Leon is like, no, no, no, no. Pin is going to help us. So they go to their dad's office and talk to PIN. And it seems at first like PIN is not going to respond because Dr. Linden is not there ventriloquizing him. But then twist. Pin talks to them in his creepy voice. So this is where we're starting to be like, okay, is PIN sentient or is it Leon throwing his voice and ventriloquizing PIN?

Ursula is pretty sure it's the latter. Yes. Poor Ursula. Ursula is always in a horrible situation and then PIN comes in and makes it 20 times worse. Like it's just bad. Yeah. So PIN tells them that Ursula should definitely see a doctor if she is pregnant. Thanks, PIN.

She wouldn't have known that otherwise. Right. So Ursula and Leon end up telling their father. And then Dr. Linden gives his own. daughter an abortion presumably a surgical abortion via her vagina which is so I don't I don't know where to begin it's it's so clear that like this is but this this I feel like is I don't mean to sound callous by saying pay off but like I think does sort of pay off on how the doctor talks to his kids about their bodies earlier so that by the time this happens later he feels very comfortable asserting autonomy

me and control over his daughter's body in a way that feels very inappropriate. Because he also slut shames her before performing the... Everyone slat shames her abortion. Yeah. She doesn't even... I mean, we have no reason to believe that a conversation with her mom would go well. It seems like we're led to believe it would go worse than any of the other conversations. But she doesn't even get the opportunity to consider it.

Like, both her brother and her father are like, that can't... We're protecting you by slut shaming you and putting you in this awful. position, which is just, yeah. Horrible. Okay, so some time passes after the abortion, and one night, their father catches Leon asking PIN for advice. And his father is horrified that Leon is talking to pin. It looks like he catches. That whole scene plays out like he's been caught having sex, which I thought was like a fun directorial choice where it's like he walks in on Leon and and PIN basically. Yeah.

And it's like, get out of here, you slut. Yeah, he's basically like, PIN is mine. You can't have him. That's my dirty boy. So he sends Leon home and then Dr. Linden and his wife speed off to some conference or something. It's very urgent and they have to get there on time. They can't be late. Yeah.

And Dr. Linden brings PIN with them. He says, curtains on PIN. Like, yeah. But because Dr. Lyndon is driving so recklessly, he crashes the car and it's maybe because he's distracted by PIN or that PIN does something to cause the accident. It's all very murky here to your point earlier of like, is PIN sentient? What's happening? This is as close as we get to being invited to believe PIN is sentient, I think.

But like, they do add an. I wonder if it's 80 R or two. Like, the mom is like, oh, my God. Why are you driving so fast? And then she turns around and she's PIN. She's like, ah! And then he's like, he just, well, I took the quarter too hard. Like, they give you an explanation as to how PIN could have been sitting up.

But you're just like, I don't know. If PIN is real, then I also love the movie. There's no version of PIN that I'm like, this movie sucks. Right, right. And again, this scene is like, what are you suggesting? Because after this, it starts to become clearer and clearer that PIN is not and has never been sentient. But this scene really complicates things. In any case, Dr. Lyndon and Mrs. Linden die in the car accident. There is a funeral.

Leon and Ursula's Aunt Dorothy tell them that she's going to come and stay with them for a while to care for them now that their parents have passed away. I love Aunt Dorothy for many reasons. I also read that this movie was shot absurdly out of order to the point where the actress playing Ursula, whose name is Cindy Preston, but she had to keep the storyboards with her whenever she was performing because they would just have them jumping around

so wildly like in the space of a day. Anyways, the actor playing Aunt Dorothy is not saying Leon's name correctly the whole time. She says, Leon. Leon. Because she's so, she's so fancy. She's so chic. You're not eating your food, Leon? Oh, she's cooked.

She's dead. Yeah. So before she moves in, Leon and Ursula are alone in the house. And Ursula wakes up in the middle of the night to discover that Leon is talking. to PIN that like he has brought PIN home and they're having a conversation. He's Pinterested. He's. I can do it too.

Okay. I love it. It's good. Thank you. Also, Leon has dressed PIN in a suit. And honestly, he should have put him in a pinstripe suit. Oh. But that would have been.

Leon doesn't have a sense of humor like that. When it comes to PIN and also in his life, when we get to hit Leon's poetry, oh, dear. That is, I think, viewed in the right way a, like, sketch. Like, it's so fucked up. Yeah. It's, poetry, imminent. But in the meantime, PIN is now wearing a suit.

I think it's the late Dr. Linden's clothes. And Leon insists that PIN is part of the family, more so than Aunt Dorothy, who Leon ominously says, she's not going to. stay with us for very long because she's going to realize that she's not wanted here. And also, PIN needs his own room. Yeah. PIN's slumming it in the attic and that's not okay. Now, Ursula, meanwhile, is very freaked out by PIN and doesn't want him around,

but Leon reassures her that PIN is fine. He's one of us. He's part of the family. And then Aunt Dorothy moves in. Leon is being very rude to her. Also, the conversations with PIN that he is having are getting creepier and creepier. PIN's voice is also starting to sound even creepier. So things are not going well here.

Certainly not. One night, Aunt Dorothy wakes up to discover that PIN is in her bed and, like, slowly sitting upright. She tries to run out, the door is locked, and then she collared. and then she collapses and dies presumably from a heart attack. Yes, which is foreshadowed. She's like, maybe being here will help my heart, Leon. Yeah. It doesn't.

It's also implied. I think that I read that this, she's given slightly more of an arc in the book. Okay. But unfortunately, it seems like, you know, Ursula, it's kind of hard. I think Ursula, it seems like she's okay with her being around because it protects her from pin being front and center. But it is also clear that like every potential guardian or like ally that Ursula comes into contact with prior to meeting Stan, she has an ulterior motive where she wants the

house and she like wants to sell their stuff and like wants access to their money. Sort of like count Olaf. She's I mean she's not count all. I feel like there there is a count all off energy about this. But like, but yeah, she's like, when she's like, oh, keep the furniture covered, it's so valuable. I guess I was getting the feeling that she wanted to stick around long enough to like get stuff. Sure. She also doesn't seem to be mourning her sister, her bitch sister.

Not really, no. Which is like, okay, you know, she wasn't a great lady. But anyways, Aunt Dorothy, she's got issues of her own. Yeah, and she'll know, she will never resolve them because. Right. Yeah, not the least of which she dies from a pin induced heart attack. And then Leon pops out from behind PIN. So it seems as though Leon was controlling PIN.

Maybe. But again, I feel like we're still not totally sure at this point. Yeah. Which, again, I'm like, I worked for me. If you're high on paint fumes and aren't really paying attention, you're like, PIN is a real guy for sure. Yeah, sure. He's my friend.

Okay. So Leon brings PIN back down from the attic. and moves him into the room that Aunt Dorothy had been staying in. And the next thing we know, Leon has put PIN in a skin suit, which you alluded to earlier. Pin skin reveal, I will never forget. It is so, like, it is a, it's a great, it's such a great production design job too, because it's really hard to say whether the skin makes him worse or better. to look at it. Like, I think he just looked equally scary, but just like a totally different way.

Right. Right. I think I'm going to land on the side that PIN looks even creepier than he. Because before, at least he resembles, you know, a medical dummy, which you might see in the real world. Pin in skin looks like it's not okay. Nothing you've ever seen before. It's not okay. It's not okay. It's not okay. And also, I mean, this movie is not being subtle about what's going on with Leon. He's wearing John Locke's clothes. I'm so curious how he did the skin situation. I'm like, I assume that was a solo job. You can't really like get on TaskRabbit for that. Right, right. Did he make it?

Did he buy it somewhere? I don't know. What is going on? Either way, Ursula is like, um, what the fuck is this? And for Ursula, she's like, yeah, sure. A likely thing for Leon to do is put skin all over PIN. And this leads to a fight between Ursula and Leon. Okay, I did the Aunt Dorothy thing.

Oh, no. And he threatens to kick Ursula out if she does not accept PIN as being a member of the family. So she sort of has no choice. Does he have the right to do this? I honestly am not sure because I'm like, unless they're. parents were like, we're giving everything to Leon. I'm like, can you even do that? Anyways, I don't know. Well, because she's, she's a minor. She's a, oh, maybe that's it. And Leon is canonically 18. We find out that he's eight, he's an adult. Right. Do we? I forget. We do.

Okay. Okay. We do. Okay. So actually that does make sense. Hmm. Okay. Well, anyway, things seem to calm down a little bit after this. And this is when Ursula meets a nice young man named Stan. She also, also gets a job. I really love like the moments where like Ursula has like autonomy or like tries to exert control of her life even though she doesn't have any opportunities. But like yeah, she gets a job at the library. She's really excited about it. And that's where she meets Stan. She meets Stan. We we can call into question because it's established that Stan is a college student and we know that Ursula is I think 16. 16. So, I mean, yeah, I guess I'm not going to comment on that.

That's a tricky one. But in any case, it's not an egregious age gap is what I'll say. No, because he's maybe a freshman. It seems like he's the same age. I was going to say, it seems like their age gap is small enough that I'm just, particularly in Ursula's case, I'm like, I'm not going to take Stan from her. I cannot in good conscience take the first person to be nice to Ursula. in her entire life in a sincere way.

Yeah, from her. Right. So he approaches her at the library. He has a little crush on her. Ursula tells Leon about it. And he, creepily, says, well, it's no wonder you've become a beautiful young woman. And you're like, give it a rest, man.

And it'll get worse. Again, wait till the poetry. Wait till he, which reminded me of a movie that I should have put on my matriot. our listeners would hate it, but it would be really fun. Well, I'll get to it when we do the poetry part. Okay, got it. So Stan asks Ursula out to dinner in a movie.

They go, they have a nice time. Leon seems jealous about this whole situation. Again, he is very sexually repressed. He insists that he doesn't have, quote unquote, the need. When Ursula comes home from the date, Leon berates her again. But then he starts wondering, maybe he does have the need. So he goes out with this young woman named Marcia, who we have seen referenced by Leon many

times at this point in the movie, going back to when they were children and he fat shamed her. Yes. This poor character. Again, it's like a character that I don't think that the movie lacks sympathy for. But Leon is just like such a massive. off misogynist throughout and you get the feeling that, you know, it is a learned behavior. Right. And to your point, yes, she had already been referenced before via Leon first fat shaming her and then later on slut shaming her the way he tends to do to women. Yeah. But he is now on a

date with Marcia and she's kissing all over him. But he's still so repressed. that he puts a stop to it and he's like, I have to go check on my friend PIN. So, so Marcia, you know, gets dressed and comes out. And, uh-oh, Spaghetti-o, there's PIN. And he's chasing Marsha somehow. And it turns out that Leon has put PIN on some sort of like,

remote-controlled wheel apparatus. I'm just like, should Leon just be an Imagineer? Like, can we, find a productive use of this ingenuity that isn't quite so scary it is impressive what he's managing to do he's making basically a pin animatronic he's building a man he is he's dr frankensteining pin yes but in this case luckily ursula is alerted in time well yeah ursula comes in and saves marcia we don't know what would have happened if if ursula didn't come to the rescue but the tension is diffused for a bit here.

I think another nice touch on this movie, too, where it's like you are very conditioned to expect one thing to happen because it is a horror movie. But the quote unquote final girl, which I feel like Ursula fills in many ways, and a sexually active woman is like actively spared by the narrative, which I think is like unusual. Totally.

And saved by another woman. I mean, we've talked at length about the, And this is, I mean, not just us. This is a very commonly known trope as far as in horror movies. If a young woman has sexual desires or has sex, she's often punished by the plot by being murdered. But yeah, this does not happen. Nope. In this movie.

And even another trope that is spared is, we've been talking about this going back to our Indiana Jones episode like eight years ago, that when women do defend themselves in these situations, they usually use household objects. And as we'll get to later, that is not what Ursula does. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's put a pin in that. Okay, so Ursula has come in and saved Marcia. The next day, Leon is like, I'm sorry, Ursula.

I overreacted. Why don't you invite Stan over for dinner? And she's like, I don't know if Stan. is ready to meet PIN, but what she means is I'm not bringing Stan home to see the likes of whatever creepy scariness is happening. Yeah. But Leon insists. So Stan comes over.

Leon introduces him to PIN. Stan is clearly disturbed, but he's playing along the best he can. He's so nice about it. And that like Ursula's like obviously briefed him. Yes. And this is when we learn that PIN is short for Pinocchio. I know. Which you're like, how the hell did I not notice?

I mean, of course. And this leads us to realize that we could have covered the movie PIN during the Pinocchio wars because PIN is Pinocchio. It's true. He is Pinocchio. But yet he's like so. He's so his own. He's so his own.

This is true. Pin is his own man. Father, that would have been. I want to be on my own. That's kind of, but Pin kind of like is happy in his situation. Pin, yes. I don't know. I guess let's explore that further.

That's true. Okay, so. Maybe happy is not the right word. Well, Pin, because, I mean, Pin is only being projected onto. So we don't. Sure. We don't know how PIN really feels. Leon doesn't seem to be having a great time in his life.

No. Okay, so Stan is over for dinner. He's playing along with the PIN of it all. He wants to hear some poetry that Leon, who is an aspiring writer, has written, and Leon reads it. And it's, oof, it's about sexual violence. It's about a man. Raping his sister and Ursula and Stan are like, uh-huh. This reminds me of a seed that is not quite as bad, but is a fascinating movie that Sarah

Marshall showed me. I think I told you about it. It's called Mr. Wrong. Remind me. Okay. It is a... Wait, is this the Ellen DeGeneres movie?

Yes. But I still need a refresher. Okay. So this is pre-coming out Ellen. Let me just verify that. Yes. Okay, this came out the year before Ellen came out publicly. So it's an interesting concept in many ways because it is a, I mean, not that Ellen cannot play a straight character, but as we conceive Ellen, and also there's all the other workplace abuse stuff. Right. It feels in 2026 bizarre to watch Ellen headline a straight rom-com called Mr. Wrong. But this is what happened in 1996. No one talks about this movie. I'd never heard of it before Sarah showed it.

me. Shout out Sarah Marshall, who is on our devil's advocate episode, same author as PIN. Yes. But it stars Ellen DeGeneres and Bill Pullman. And the plot is fascinating. I feel like it could be adapted into like a neon psychological thriller, but it's a rom-com in this case. It's alarming how how the plots of these two genres really could go one way or the other. It's just all about performance and scoring. Those are really the only differences. But yeah, I want the pin rom-com. Oh my God. Should we do that?

Well, it got me thinking about Lars and the real girl. Sure. Sure. I've never seen that, actually. But in Mr. Wrong, Ellen meets. And also, it is, like, fun to reflect on because it's, like, right before she came out. And it's her meeting a guy and realizing she doesn't want to be with him, which is fun. Yeah.

Anyways. Bill Pullman, like, really kind of, like, love bombs Ellen DeGeneres his character. And then she quickly figures out he's, like, the worst. best guy ever. He's in fact Mr. Wrong. And one of the first tip-offs that he's Mr. Wrong is he reads her his poetry. And it's, it is actually,

I think, a very funny scene in Mr. wrong. Bill Pullman is putting his whole Bill Pullman Ussie into this like very funny. Like it's not sexually violent poetry like Leon's. It's more just like a string of adjectives. And then it cuts back to Ellen Wincing at like, he's like,

I'm a sailor in. the blue in the depth in the ocean and like it just keeps going i just love when men are discouraged from becoming writers i think that there should be more scenes in film where men try to write and are humiliate as a result i i agree it kind of reminds me of the scene in barbie when all the kens are playing totally matchbox 20 on their acoustic guitars at the barbies and they're just like oh god but then yeah i mean never forget that barbie didn't get a song of barbie and kentz Ken got a banger. I love that song.

But why did Barbie not get one? I know. Anyway, okay, so we've heard Leon's very scary and sexually violent poetry. He goes upstairs to put PIN in his room. And as he's coming back downstairs, he overhears Ursula and Stan talking about getting psychiatric help for Leon. And Leon does not like this. He goes back to PIN, who tells Leon that Stan is trying to turn Ursula against him and something needs to be done about it.

So, Leon invites Stan over under the guise that he needs help planning Ursula's surprise birthday party. Stan comes over. Leon drugs, attacks, and kills Stan. Pin is in the room, of course, as all this is happening. and he tells Leon to hide Stan's car, put his body in the wood pile, and then come back and clean up the blood off of the rug. Ursula then comes home from work. Leon tells her that Stan called to cancel a date that he had with her that night. And Ursula is worried. She can tell that something is off, but Leon pretends everything is normal.

Leon is gaslighting, like his life depends on it, which he does. He's like, oh, do you think Stan's cheating? on you. Why don't you trust him if you love him so much? Yeah. And she's like, Sam would never cheat on me. And that's so true. He wouldn't. It's, I know. So they're having dinner, the siblings. And then Leon goes off to grab his poetry to read more of it to her. And while he's in the other room, Ursula hears Stan's watch beep, a watch that she had given him as a gift, a Chekhov's watch, if you will, which I forgot to mention earlier. So she hears the watch beep and then she finds it on the floor and then notices the wet spot on the carpet where Leon had scrubbed away the blood. So she knows something horrible has happened. And she asks Leon, what did he do? And Leon's like, it was PIN who did it. He and Stan started arguing and then Stan fell and hit his head and died.

So Ursula freaks out and runs off. and then comes back in with an axe, which is what you were alluding to earlier. Yay, woman using a weapon in a horror movie that isn't a kitchen knife. Yay. Or a frying pan or something. Right. Yeah. And she is about to chop Leon.

But we don't exactly know what happens because we cut immediately to a bunch of police are at the house. Ursula is in the back of a cop car and Stan's body is found in the woodpile. But wait, he's alive still. Which is you're like, sure. Sure. And then we cut to some time later. Ursula and Stan, who seems well again, visit the house that she grew up in,

but apparently does not live there anymore. Ursula goes inside and talks to a figure who's sitting at the window. We only see him from behind at first, but it seems to be PIN because he's sitting perfectly still and it's PIN's voice. And they're talking about Leon. But then the final shot of the movie is a reveal. Leon with Frosted Tips. It is Leon who has apparently dissociated and is now living as PIN. Yes.

The end. So let's take a quick break and then we'll come. back to discuss. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full,

or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell, Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com for details and to check a

Bill. Connection is everything. Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here. You know us, or rather you know them. Tony and Candice, Nina and Lance, Spike, and yes, the chicken. We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia, AEO rewatch, our brand new podcast.

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Guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Chrysall, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvised, not just words, but a song, a melody. Well, I thought he was going to write. I thought you were all going to write.

write a song. I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia. Ayo rewatch on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Solita, we share the messy stories of traveling alone as a woman. Your duolingo is not going to come back to you when a man is inside of you. Oh, no. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking any.

anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is, and not the lies you're sold about it. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller. The definition of what is a movie has kind of changed anywhere, too, right? What do you think it is now?

It's images and words being spoken, captured by some sort of technology. Danny McBride. He loves over. Oh, that's fantastic. And you make it on, you make your own. That's great. I call him Terro Reed. It's a good name.

They're all named after cast members of American Pie. Yeah. I call, I don't, I never looked up if she was a. in this, but I call him Leachie Sobieski. I don't think she was an American pie, but I still like that. I haven't looked it up. She was prominent around the same time. Then Mary Steenberg.

Why are you guys talking to me? I'm worried. Why are you talking so down to me that you think I don't understand your little play game? I just really I get it. I'm trying to set you up for success here. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the I Heart Radio app, Apple

podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we are back. Yeah. Where to start about PIN? Boy, I feel like we've touched on a lot of themes that just we need to dig into a little further here. I mean, I think obviously the issue of mental illness is brought up in here, which we've

talked about a number of times in the context of how mental illness is invoked in horror movies. That it's like such a difficult conversation to have because of course it shouldn't be off limits in any genre of movie. But this movie does do something that always bothers me. I think the biggest example of it that I always think of is at the beginning of Mitzamar. Yeah, where you see mentally unstable behavior, which is like so much of horror, you cannot extract that from the genre, right? But the issue is that it is like given a specific, it is attributed to a specific mental illness and then serves to stigmatize people with that illness. And usually is wildly inaccurate and implies that anyone who has said mental illness is murderous. Right. Which is what happens

towards the end of PIN, I forgot that it happened because we get so far in without it. Because I think it just as easily reads. And maybe if it was made today would read as like PIN is this You know, certainly, like, Leon was not mentally well, but I feel like PIN, to me, kind of clearly embodies this generational trauma that like this, this trauma around perception of self and repression and attitudes around sex that is inherited from his father who originally voiced PIN. And I feel like that explanation, it makes more narrative sense and it doesn't stigmatize anyone who has schizophrenia. and it's so frequently schizophrenia that is attributed to any charcutory board of behaviors, most of which have nothing to do with schizophrenia, which is a treatable illness. Right. But yeah, I guess I was sort of confused at how it comes up here because it's towards the end makes very little,

I mean, I guess it's spoken in the context of Ursula, say, I don't want my brother to be institutionalized, which I think is complicated. because you don't because that you know suggests that getting help with mental illness is only a bad thing or like will ostracize you from your family but there are enough examples of that being the case that it's like I understand why she's concerned about that especially in the context of an institution I mean totally especially in the I mean in the late 80s where like psychiatric help was still not the best in most cases and still can be at why wildly misogynist race. I mean, like, homophobic. There are so many ways that ableist, like, go down the list. But, but yeah, I almost read that is like she doesn't want him to be in an institution where he would likely be further abused and mistreated and things like that.

But we don't know for sure. Also, it's her who diagnoses him. And it's her, it's Ursula who, like, mentions the. specific mental illness, so which she says based on having read books about it at the library. So she's not a, she's not a mental health expert, or at least certainly not a professional, not to say that people, you know, who do their own research can't be correct in a diagnosis they give themselves or give someone else. But either way, we have to take what she's saying with a grain of salt, I would say. It does feel like very of the time and would continue to be

of the time for decades after because midsummer comes out what 30 years after pin but like is this process of ascribing any mental illness to murderous behavior yes it's very unnecessary and i wanted to point that out um it's so funny because you're like well this is sure is that harmful yes has anyone seen pin unclear um unclear if this had the opportunity to do harm but it's worth mentioning um well i also feel like the movie sort of suggests and I'm curious what you think about this but it feels like the movie sort of suggests that the mental illness that Leon has is part of what leads to his intense sexual repression sure some of it is environmental some of it is his father's behavior and his father things that their dad says about sex

and like the bizarre sex talk that PIN gives the kids, which we'll talk about further. But I feel like based on what we hear the parents say or don't hear the parents say, because they're not, they're definitely abusive and cold and cruel as parents. But I felt like they weren't like super, super driving home a need to repress.

sexual desire. So I kind of, I mean, a little bit, but also, and I know that the dad slut shames Ursula, but I didn't really get any strong indication that he was saying to Leon, like, repress any need you might have. No, but I didn't. It felt a bit more just like clinical and it was definitely weird, the sex talk. I guess I don't, I don't think that there's. in my opinion, there's not enough information to suggest that they're placing it on the mental

illness. If anything, I think it's like a mix of things because I do feel like the father encourages both children to have disordered relationships to sex and their bodies, not in the same way. But I think that just pin alone giving you the talk, like that that gives you a disordered relationship to how bodies are talked about how sex is talked about. And the nurse fucking pins. seems to really do a number on Leon as well. So I feel like it's a combination of like clearly whatever is like the environmental stuff is exacerbated by the mental illness, but I don't know. I didn't think it was suggested that that it was solely that fair.

But I don't know. It's so hard to tell what we're supposed to believe after watching PIN. Right. Well, so to talk more about the sex talk that PIN, aka PIN, their father gives them via pin. It starts out by saying that like people have a biological imperative to reproduce and that creates the quote unquote need. And of course the way that this is framed is like very gender essentialist. It's very heteronormative. It also erases asexual people because at one point Ursula asks if every person will have the need or has the need. And PIN responds with,

if they're normal they do. So, which is like, I think, yes, I agree. And also, I think that this is attitude of the time. And also PIN is not a character who we're supposed to be like, if PIN said it, it must be true. Right. But when you consider that it's Dr. Lyndon saying these things, who is a medical doctor. I don't trust that bitch either. No, he's horrible, but that's my point. My point is that his attitude toward sex and human sexuality, even though he is a man of science, he is a medical doctor.

He still has a very regressive and repressive way of looking at human sexuality, which, again, reflective of the time, but also just to share a little anecdote of a doctor's appointment that I had in recent years that demonstrates that so many doctors harbor whatever, like, biases they have from whatever, that they bring that into their medical practice because this was a few years ago when I was trying to get my tubes tied prehistorectomy. I had gone to a doctor. I had said, I want to go off of birth control. It has made me more or less completely lose my libido, the particular birth control.

I was on. The doctor, who was a woman, by the way, asked if I had a partner and I said, no. And she said, well, then how do you know that you don't have a libido? I've probably shared this story before. But you're just like, ma'am. And I'm just like, you are like, and then I had to explain human sexuality to a doctor, which was absolutely nuts. But I feel like this movie actually does a, good job of showing the ways in which, like, sexual repression and misunderstandings of sexuality can permeate medicine and can influence certain doctors' attitudes and can affect the way they treat patients. Totally. I mean, it's like they're everyone in this, it doesn't stop at the doctor. Look at the nurse. Everyone in this doctor's, this pediatrician's office has a disordered relationship

to the way they think of sex and bodies. And again, not shaming using a sex doll. I'm shaming using a sex doll at your place of work with the door open with a child outside. Don't do that. Don't do it. That's a good point. Yeah. It's like that there's so much because of how we're, because of how we're socially conditioned to view doctors, which in a best case scenario wouldn't be harmful as like someone who is not going to bring their own social conditioning into a work setting, but they so often do, especially if you are marginalized in any way. Exactly. The issue of biases affecting medical professionals goes beyond the topic of sexuality, and it extends to, you know, there's a lot of racism in medicine, there's sexism,

there's fat phobia, there's transphobia, there's, again, ableism, and ageism. Like, all of this stuff that often significantly, harms patients. And then the irony is that when Ursula finds out she's pregnant and wants to avoid the shame that's going to come along with like being teen pregnant and who do we tell and how do we maybe keep this a secret from our parents kind of thing, PIN says, PIN and Leon say, like telling a doctor, even if it's your father, you know, that's an objective person of science. They're not going to bring morality into it, which is not what happens because in the next

scene, Dr. Lyndon, who is about to perform an abortion on his own daughter, again, I cannot stress enough. How fucking horrifying and horrible that is. He says, like, wow, after all the time that Penn took to explain sex to you and give you a better start than I ever had. And, he says, like, wow, after all the time that Penn took, you, had, I still end up with a pregnant, teen pregnant daughter. But then it goes back to like sex ed and the sex talk that PIN, aka Dr. Lyndon gave the kids, which is like, okay, well, doctor, did you talk about contraceptives and safe sex? Did you talk about consent? Like clearly not based on how like he and Leon, I mean, Leon, you can see he takes a

very judgmental approach to that's why i'm like i think that there's stuff going on with the father that we don't see and this is again me kind of projecting but like the the way that leon talks to his sister does not come from nowhere and he has such a shame forward approach even when they're very young like it and in their approach like where she's interested she is like looking at a playboy issue which you're like i really hope those are inserts from the child actors but like but Either way, that he's like horrified by her. Like he has a very arm's length relationship to sex and bodies from the time he's very young. And I do feel like that is sort of connected to how his father, because his father is so disconnected emotionally from others that he can't have a discussion with bodies with his own children without a mannequin present.

Having a pin there. Right. So it's like I think I do feel like it there is a pretty. like well mapped like you're saying like there there's medical bias and abuse layered onto it and these kids are just like raised to be so like just have a disordered relationship to their body that it seems like ursula spends a lot of her life trying to like understand and reclaim but doesn't have anyone to talk to about it because she the only person she has to go i mean i guess she does have the friend but we don't really see them talk or that relationship build we just know they've

and friends for a long time. And she clearly doesn't know, her friend clearly doesn't know enough to know not to go on a date with Leon. So I can't imagine they're especially close because if my best friend's brother was Leon and I knew all about Leon and Pyn, I wouldn't be like, yeah, let's go on a date, frankly. But it just seems like she goes to Leon for emotional support and he cannot give it to her. And I just feel so, poor Ursula. Ursula is trying so hard to, and it also seems like she's trying to live up to other social expectations of her, which include that of being a caretaker to her brother and shielding him from the judgment of the world and like taking that on, which does feel like a very feminine expectation, right, is that she defaults to caretaker.

when her mother dies she defaults to i clean the house now and i do feel like it's like intentionally done in the movie where there's like a moment where leon sits down after their parents die and ursula sort of lingers for a second and then starts to clean up and it just feels like they're it felt like a moment where it's like oh they're starting to like click into these roles because they don't there's just like a void of order i thought about that too but then it's leon who seems to cook all of the meals. So he's taking... Okay, progressive.

So actually, feminist icon. Woke Leon. Don't worry about all the woman murders. He actually, and then he does try to kill Stan. So, you know, he's open to killing people of all gender. This is true. But yeah, I mean, and I think it's, I almost, I don't feel like we have time to get into this as fully as maybe we, I don't know if should is the right word.

But the themes of incest that come up. I hear come up far more in the book, which kind of scans to me because the writer Andrew Niederman, who's still living and also wrote the original screenplay to the Amityville Horror and The Devil's Advocate. But he was the talk about feminist icon. He was the ghost writer for horror writer V.C. Andrews after she died for decades. And her work when she was alive and then the ghost written work after she died, this was a frequent theme that would appear in her horror. Incest was? Incess or like disordered like disordered relationships to sex growing up within a family. So while I didn't read the book because it just did not sound like a fun way to spend a weekend and I like the movie, I hear that that seems to come up far more.

but the change made for the movie is that that set of, I don't know how to properly describe it, like that set of disordered feeling and thinking that manifests in abusive behavior towards his sister is sort of kept exclusively to Leon, I guess in the book, they're both struggling with this. But in the movie, which I think sort of plays too like you're saying of how heavily emphasized Leon's mental illnesses specifically, where I think the book, even though Leon is the pin enabler in the book. Pinnabler. The pinnabler, the penit. But that they both sort of fall into this mental health crisis after their parents die.

Where in the movie, and I think I prefer this, like that Ursula is more focused on trying to move forward. with her life and being met with nothing but expectations that are far more than should be expected of a teenage girl, that being protecting her brother from what she fears will be an abusive institutionalization, navigating her own relationship to her body and sex, which is very disordered because she is forced to vow abstinence to her brother. brother and not to mention all of the weird stuff with her father as well and it seems like the total void of a relationship with her mother so she goes from you know being like a sexually active teenager which we don't really have enough information to know like is she just like doing what teenagers do is she like acting out we like don't know it could be some column a column B column C whatever right but she makes a pretty severe 180 on that and goes to being completely complicit to what her brother says she should do, sort of as a punishment

for having gotten this abortion. It seems like they're like, well, the way to avoid getting pregnant again is to completely cut yourself off from the need so that the fact when she meets PIN and quote unquote the need comes back, even though I think for Ursula, the need is far. You mean when she meets Stan? Oh, my God. Our boyfriend PIN. What if she fell in love with PIN? Oh, my God. And then it's just a love triangle. Wow.

But when she meets Stan, oh, my argument for Ursula is the need for her is actually just a need for genuine connection with someone, where I think that the need as it manifests sexually is something that affects almost everybody, you know, she's coming of age and all of this stuff. But like by the time we're at like the midpoint of this movie, I think the need for Ursula, like it is sexual. it seems like she and Stan are sexually active. We see him topless opening a watch at some point.

Relent to believe they have sex, which I also think is a really good plot point for Ursula, because that shows that she's directly going against what her brother has demanded of her. And that where I normally don't, whatever, we tend to be pretty ambivalent towards like a love interest shoehorned in. But I think like Stan serves, because Ursula pursues and gets a job that she likes, I think Stan.

serves like a narrative purpose that is very active for her where it's like she is standing up to her brother she is seeking out emotional safety that she's never had before right and she's you know not buying this the horror movie trope that if I have sex I won't survive the movie because she does and so right I like I like the stand relationship she seems to be realizing more and more that perhaps her brother is not right about a lot of his views on sexuality. Can you imagine? That he's perhaps a bit unstable and that she shouldn't listen to him.

Yeah. And then she starts kind of breaking away from the stronghold he has on her behavior, particularly as it relates to her sexuality. And kind of in an act of defiance says, well, I'm going to just do my own thing. and pursue what I want and fulfill my need if I so choose. I agree. And yeah, and I like on Stan's end that Stan is, it seems like, because sometimes this is like a good, and this could be a relationship of any kind, like it doesn't need

to be romantic, but that like he is articulating things that she needs to hear and it makes sense that she hasn't been able to say. but like, I mean, do I wish for first dance's sake that he maybe waited until they were in a second location to bring up all the like clearly your brother needs help? Pin is scaring me why he looks like that, etc. What's that skin suit he's wearing? But that has, it's so funny when we were talking about this seriously because you're like, oh, right, we're talking about pin. But like that has to be affirming for Ursula because that's something that she's had in the. back of her mind for years, but can't talk about with anybody out of fear of the consequences

of talking about it. And that like Stan, it seems like is the first person that can just, I mean, that's such a powerful thing to be like, hey, I also see PIN and I'm also scared of PIN. That's powerful. For sure. But that makes me think of the one scene where their mother and PIN are in close proximity to each other, which is the car scene, but it's clear that their mother thinks pin is freaky and weird and doesn't like pin. So why? So I'm wondering, like, why wasn't there maybe a conversation between Ursula and her mother, where they're talking about how uncomfortable pin makes them?

And you're not wrong. And my guess is that because this is written and directed by men, and men tend not to, think about women interact. Can you believe it? So they can't really conceive of what a conversation between two women or a woman and a girl or whatever would look like. So that's why we don't have that. But it's established that both of the women in the family have a lot of uneasiness around PIN. Women do not trust PIN and with good reason.

Except for that nurse. Except for that nurse. He's our closest. She's right or die for pin. Look, sometimes we are attracted to toxic people and even toxic pins. Toxic pins. Toxic pins. Anyways, yeah, pin is scary.

I like the Stan relationship. I will say I think that there was equal opportunity for this to happen with Ursula with a friend, particularly the friend who ends up going on a date with Leon. I do feel like that character is well used, but I sort of was wondering why Ursula wouldn't have had a more open relationship with her. That too, yeah. But I think that where Stan gets the edge there is like if everyone in this movie absolutely has to be straight or pin because it's 1988, that like the sexual component of her relationship with Stan is also kind of like important to why they're being together makes sense in the story because it's like she's getting that emotional. And she's like not falling into the Leon superstition that having sex means that your life is over or whatever. You're damaged or whatever.

Yeah. I mean, ultimately this is a movie about how being sexually repressed, which is a learned behavior. This is, you know, Leon learned this. How detrimental that can be. It can lead to people dying. getting chopped with an axe. PIN could crash your car. Also, it seems like maybe

John Locke starts to realize this 10 seconds before he dies. That PIN is maybe bad news? No, well, not that pin is bad news, but that like the way that he has conditioned his children to think is unhealthy to them. You know, based on what we know about the character, I don't think we're led to believe

he's going to have a positive change to his life as a result. But it did seem like that like register that like, oh, me doing this like hurts Leon. Right, because he's horrified to learn that Leon goes and has full dialogues with PIN. And it seems like he realizes like, oh, no, what have I done? If I had only just talked to my son directly for once in my life and not only communicated him via making him count backwards from 100 by sevens, which, by the way, that scene. So it seems like Leon and Ursula are like two or three years apart in age, right? Yeah, something like that, yeah.

And it seems like in that scene when their dad is like making them do counting and or math, he says to Ursula, who seems to be about five at the time to count to 10. and then Leon, who's only two years older than her, has to count backwards from 100 by sevens. But my point is, like, surely, Ursula can do slightly more complicated things with numbers than simply just counting to 10? I mean, I think that that's like intentional, though, right? Like he is setting Leon up to fail. And like, it almost feels, that's how I read it is like. And or he underestimates the capabilities of girls because he's.

sexist maybe I don't know yeah I read that as like him like enacting this that's why I mean like the the mother's abuse is far more direct but I do feel like the father's behavior is intended as abuse but like a far more like psychologically torturous like I think that that was like a humiliation ritual like he doesn't even make physical contact with Leon he just wants him to feel bad about himself before going to bed which is so horrible that's so evil Right, because later there's a scene between Leon and Ursula where Leon speaks to clear resentment he has towards his parents and the psychological damage they did to him. It's when he's like pouring wine over the tablecloth and being like, oh my God, mother would hate this and father would hate that we're drinking wine. He said, let's go.

Let's get a little silly. And Ursula, understand. I don't know. Ursula, I do, even though it's like it freaks you out because you're like, anytime she stands up to Leone, she's in danger, unfortunately. And that's so many, I mean, she is in a domestic abuse situation with her brother. Yes. But also it is, as a viewer, very satisfying for her to be like, I can't eat it at the table with fucking PIN.

This sucks. And he's like, I'll take it up with PIN. Pin says it's okay. You're like, fuck you. Yeah. Look, this movie is so. awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think of like what else there is to say. I mean, I think that there's opportunities for, I mean, getting into, I do believe it passes the Bechtel Test. Not often, but there,

I forget, well, this is maybe proving the point, but like her boss at the library does have a name and they talk about, they like do have like a few exchanges. So I am, well, it's one of my, not one of my favorite movies, but it is like a movie I really like. And I want to give it the edge because I do think that the movies, I think the movie has a lot of empathy for both of the siblings, but especially Ursula. It's like more subversive than it seems, even though I think a big failure of it is, you know, I don't know. I don't feel qualified to decide how this handles incest. I'm assuming not very well. But I think that We were presented with a number of women who could have had a bigger role in the story and don't.

I think, yeah, it feels very written by a man, directed by a man, that, you know, it's the relationship to their father that is the one that shapes their lives for better and for worse. Their mother's present, but we did not as present. And Ursula finds solace in a romantic relationship with a man, not maybe with the friend that we know she's close with. More Marsha. More Marsha. But I also think we're presented with a lot of classic horror setups that are like very intentionally subverted in Ursula's favor where she is the final girl. She's not using a frying pan. Marsha lives and is saved by Ursula.

So I don't know. It's a very, very mixed bag, I feel this movie. In terms of Bechtelcast, it is a mixed bag. As a movie to watch, you got to watch PIN. It's on the Pinnometer. It's a 10 out of 10. There's so many different pin look. Rank your favorite pin look.

Are you into skin pin? Or no skin pin? No skin. Skin plus suit or no skin naked. Like a clothing suit, not skin suit. Right. Yeah. Dead father's suit on PIN or maybe not.

Or fully nude with an anatomically correct penis. Is that covered in skin or did we keep that raw? So many questions. With regards to PIN. But I do believe it passes the medical test. I believe you. I didn't pay attention. I do believe it does.

I don't think it, you know, not. handily, but I think it technically does. Okay. What is your, what is, what is your nipple rating for the film PIN? I'll give this. I feel like it's a split down the middle because it does feel like such a mixed bag. I think it is doing something interesting by commenting on like, in-cell slash vall cell mentality and how that sexual repression, which often manifests, which often

manifests as utter rage and often violence toward women. The movie like acknowledges that, examines it in, I think, pretty effective ways. I don't know. Yeah, I think so. It's such a wild movie. And again, to your point, the tropes that are being subverted as far as teen girls who are sexually interested and have clear sexual desire, not being put. punished by the plot of the movie for that. They are punished by men around them who are harboring,

you know, sex negative attitudes and misogyny and the double standards around being sexually active from a gender point of view. And they're so quick to slut shame teen girls and women. So all of that stuff is pretty interesting. It's a rich text. You cannot deny. Yeah. So, Let's say two and a half nipples, two and a half plastic skin suit nipples that we are to believe PIN eventually has. Yes. Okay. And I'm giving them to Ursula, who that actor looks so much like Taylor Swift to me, just throwing that out there. She does kind of look like 80s Taylor Swift.

That's so interesting. But yeah, I'll give them to Ursula. And I'll give my half nipple to Marsha. She deserved more. Yeah, choose a cutie. I am also going to go two and a half, I think. That's a fair rating for PIN. It's, I think it's so tricky because I think it's doing a lot of really interesting

subversive things. It's doing a number of less so. And then it's doing a bunch of third things that I don't fully know if it's doing a good or bad job, but it kept my attention. Is PIN sentient in the car or otherwise shrug? I just don't know. I will say I really I really enjoy this movie. I think this is a super fun movie to like what?

It's like a sleepover movie. It's so weird. So bring pin to your friends. I mean, I guess with the appropriate trigger warnings, but bring pin to your friends. You'll never see a mannequin the same again. That would actually be a good theme because there is that Kim control movie mannequin as well that I've seen with Bryant. It's a weird one. life size I guess

Large and the real girl Life size which we've covered on the matrion I think Manichinuary Think about it Anyways yes I'm going to give a two and a half Nipples two to Ursula And half to the pile of wood That barely hides

Stands apparently a live body Yeah And I think that's gonna do it for PIN Happy birthday Jamie Yeah I'm noticing no one switched me A Happy birthday kind of interesting Okay, PIN, wished you one at the beginning of the episode, if you recall. Remember? I do. I want... Happy birthday, Jane. Oh, my God. You know what? I don't think I heard that because when you do PIN voice, it cuts out on the Zoom.

It disappears into the... Because it's too scary. It's too scary. You're on a free... While Zoom censoring PIN. I retract. I didn't realize you said that because your PIN voice disappears. That's how I opened the episode. Wow. Well, you know, happy, happy birthday. For my birthday, I don't, I don't know. Caitlin, I should text you. I got to make some plans. And then the day after my birthday, I'm going to see my nieces and nephews. So I'm excited about that.

Yeah. What a lovely gift. I will not be showing them PIN. Good fun. But yeah, thank you so much for listening. Listeners, thank you for watching PIN. I'm assuming if you made it this far. Also, if you made it this far, if we haven't really

already there are tour announcements on the way for this fall and beyond for our 10 year anniversary tour keep your eyes peeled for that as always the best way to support the show is by subscribing to our patreon a.k.a matriot. Caitlin you just mentioned that's where our life size episode is. It's where over 200 episodes are and it's been the same price for almost 10 years five dollars a month gets you access to the entire back catalog as well as two new episodes on a theme of ours or you're choosing every months. And it is it is the way to keep the Baxilcast afloat. So as a birthday gift to me, become a matron or just remain a matron. Please. And you can enjoy Jamie's birthday picks over on the Matrion this month, which is Minions 2 and 2001, a Space Odyssey. Yeah, really, really expanding what

two can mean in the title of a movie. It's so eclectic. Thank you for watching Pinn again, Caitlin. It's birthday miracle. Honestly, I had a pretty good time, so thank you. It's a good time. All right. Bye. Bye, Jamie. Bye, Caitlin. The Bechtelcast is a production of IHeartMedia, hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus, and me, Caitlin Durante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtenen. And edited by Caitlin Durante, ever heard of them? That's me. And our logo and merch and all of our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus, ever heard of her? Oh my God. And our theme song, by the way, was composed by Mike Kaplan.

With vocals by Catherine Voskrasinski. Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree slash Bechtelcast. Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armisen here. The Dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form. We're launching Podlandia, A. AEO rewatch, our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together,

breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Chrysler, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvised, not just words, but a song. Well, I thought you were all going to write a song for you.

I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia. A.O. Rewatch on the IHeartRadio podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests

improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show's famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller, Danny McGrillard, Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed, and Mary Steenberg.

Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week, the news gets worse. The world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible, you're the problem. Do you know I just found out who Sidney Sweeney was? If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of men. Do better or do less, so I don't have to do so much. I'm Yamanika, and I'm out.

Listen to You're the Problem with Yamanika on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Nick Tatoro. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, The Longest Yard, or Spike Lee's Black Klansman. And on my new podcast, delivering happiness with Nick Titoro, I deliver pizza to a new guest. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing my belt? To Bill Burr. I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am.

And now, we even have more great guests. coming up, including the great John Tuturo. It's called Happiness. Delivering Happiness. And many, many more. Open your free High Heart Radio app. Search Delivering Happiness with Nick Totoro. And listen now. This is an IHeart podcast.

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